WEBVTT - Lab 052: Retail Apocalypse

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you've been paying attention, Tot, but

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like fashion and shopping is everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it feels like every social media site is incorporating

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<v Speaker 2>shopping onto it now, like you can shop on Facebook, Instagram.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm accidentally shopping on Instagram. I was like, oh, did.

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<v Speaker 1>I just thought I was liking this post? I'm viewing

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<v Speaker 1>a shop.

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<v Speaker 2>Happens so quickly and how did I get here?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, And I have to admit I have really trained

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<v Speaker 1>my algorithm to give me the outfits. Now you see

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<v Speaker 1>what I have on. But I'm somehow in fashion Instagram. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm seeing amazing articles about the life of Andre Leon Tally,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of stuff about Virgil. I don't own anything

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<v Speaker 1>off white, but the people I follow do I know.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you see so many up and coming folks

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<v Speaker 2>that are making their own brands. Honifa. Yes, that came

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<v Speaker 2>up on my feet and now I'm obsessed. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if I can afford anything but lovely.

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<v Speaker 1>To look at tel Far just dropped a new bag too,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's about six one hundred dollars. My timeline isn't

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<v Speaker 1>a tizzy about it, so it's only right that we

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<v Speaker 1>put shopping and fashion under the Microscope. I'm TT and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science,

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<v Speaker 2>pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship.

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<v Speaker 1>This week, we're talking all about fashion. Now, it's no

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<v Speaker 1>secret that we love to shop.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, a lot of our bonding in the early stages

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<v Speaker 2>of our friendship was sending each other links or screenshot

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<v Speaker 2>of different outfits that we saw on Tumblr that was like, ooh, girl,

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<v Speaker 2>this would look cute on you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes. So in today's episode, we're going to do a

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<v Speaker 1>deep dive on shopping, and specifically, we're taking a look

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<v Speaker 1>at how retail has changed in the past decade.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems like it's gone through a lot of changes

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<v Speaker 2>and then the pandemic came and really shook things up.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're really curious about what those changes are and

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<v Speaker 2>why they're happening.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's get into the recitation. I think if we

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<v Speaker 1>take all of our recent shopping experiences, there are probably

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<v Speaker 1>some key takeaways of what we know about shopping lately.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that we're doing a lot of online

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<v Speaker 2>shopping to distance ourselves from people and for convenience.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, and if we do shop online, it's more likely

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<v Speaker 1>to be a hybrid. We're not just walking around aimlessly

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<v Speaker 1>in the store. I do my research ahead of time, baby,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm checking multiple sites, so I'm able to make a

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<v Speaker 1>b line to exactly the right rack in the store

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<v Speaker 1>for the exact item.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that feature. You could say, is it in

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<v Speaker 2>this store that is near where I live?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>Say yes? Or no it's not within thirty miles. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>well I'm not going there.

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<v Speaker 1>You have it.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of ads on social media, and influencers

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<v Speaker 2>are constantly pushing product, especially with the changes in social media,

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<v Speaker 2>like Instagram has made some updates to its platform that

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<v Speaker 2>prioritizes shopping. So Instagram is slowly but surely morphing into

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<v Speaker 2>an online retail store. Along with your best friend's photos

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<v Speaker 2>from their wedding.

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<v Speaker 1>There's just a lot less judgment around shopping than there

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<v Speaker 1>used to be. The pandemic saw people really leaning on

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<v Speaker 1>some retail therapy.

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<v Speaker 2>When things started to open up to I think people

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<v Speaker 2>really started buying a lot and also disclosing that they

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<v Speaker 2>were buying a lot. I saw a meme that was

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<v Speaker 2>like my budget for next month is zero dollars, do

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<v Speaker 2>not invite me anywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I think this is great anecdotal evidence that things

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<v Speaker 1>that we've noticed and trends we've noticed in our own

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<v Speaker 1>friend groups. But there are still other things that I

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<v Speaker 1>want to know, like how has retail changed not just

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<v Speaker 1>in the pandemic, but in the past decade, and then

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<v Speaker 1>how the pandemic change it even further.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a really good question. And how has the shopping

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<v Speaker 2>experience changed because of it?

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<v Speaker 1>And what are people looking for? And what's motivating people

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<v Speaker 1>to shop these days? We saw we could do it

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<v Speaker 1>all from home, so how are they being marketed to

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<v Speaker 1>what's convincing them to go in the stores now?

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<v Speaker 2>And I would really like to get a snapshot of

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<v Speaker 2>today's biggest retail trends. Fast fashion and affordable luxury. These

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<v Speaker 2>are new terms that I hear a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>throwing around. Yes, I'm not entirely sure what they actually

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<v Speaker 2>actually mean. What we always hear in the same sentence

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<v Speaker 2>as fast fashion is sustainability, right, how fast fashion might

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<v Speaker 2>be impacting our environment and our carbon footprint. So I

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<v Speaker 2>think this would be a great opportunity for us to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of split this episode into two so that we

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<v Speaker 2>can make sure that we hit all of the major points.

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<v Speaker 1>You're right, TT. We can start out here talking about

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<v Speaker 1>how the trends of shopping have changed, and later we

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<v Speaker 1>can come back and really dive into sustainability, manufacturing, really

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<v Speaker 1>getting into understanding what has to happen now and in

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<v Speaker 1>the future. Let's jump into the dissection.

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<v Speaker 2>Our guest for this episode is Barbara Khan. She's the

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<v Speaker 2>author of The Shopping Revolution.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Barbara Khan. I'm a professor of marketing at the

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<v Speaker 3>Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, and for the

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<v Speaker 3>last fifteen twenty years, I've been following the retailing industry

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<v Speaker 3>and following fashion.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's go back pre COVID, back to when shopping was

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<v Speaker 1>a thing. When I think back, TT, I can remember

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<v Speaker 1>when we used to go to the mall.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, in grad school. Yeah, going to the mall was

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<v Speaker 2>a great pastime.

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<v Speaker 1>And now we are going right to eye message and

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<v Speaker 1>sharing those links.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I'm only on my phone.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it really makes me wonder what's been happening to stores.

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<v Speaker 2>We asked doctor con to give us an overview of

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<v Speaker 2>the retail industry in recent years.

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<v Speaker 3>In twenty seventeen that was the year that was dubbed

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<v Speaker 3>the retail apocalypse because eighty six hundred stores closed that year.

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<v Speaker 3>Macy's department stores, for example, were closing, and those were

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<v Speaker 3>really important stores to close because they anchor the mall.

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<v Speaker 3>So you kind of saw this reverberating effect where a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of these other stores closed. Then you might remember

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<v Speaker 3>Toys r Us closed, Circuit City closed, Radio Shot close.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of people were saying it was the retail apocalypse,

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<v Speaker 3>the end of physical retail. Now I wrote a book

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<v Speaker 3>and I called it the Shopping Revolution, and my point

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<v Speaker 3>at the time was not that this was the death

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<v Speaker 3>of this retail, but that it was the death of

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<v Speaker 3>bad retail.

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<v Speaker 2>So what does she mean by bad retail? What exactly

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<v Speaker 2>caused the stores to start closing in twenty seventeen.

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<v Speaker 3>You're not allowed to just sit around and do nothing

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<v Speaker 3>and hope the customers come to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor con says that the retail apocalypse happened for three

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<v Speaker 1>main reasons.

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<v Speaker 3>One was the online reason. We definitely saw the rise

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<v Speaker 3>of Amazon and the rise of people instead of shopping

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<v Speaker 3>in physical stores, some people were shopping or doing some

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<v Speaker 3>of their shopping at least in e commerce.

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<v Speaker 2>Economists call this the Amazon effect.

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<v Speaker 3>The other thing that we were seeing was people weren't

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<v Speaker 3>shopping in Macy's because they were going to TJ Max.

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<v Speaker 3>They were going to Target, they were going to Walmart,

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<v Speaker 3>They're going to Ross to Burlington.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I am they they are meeting.

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<v Speaker 3>The clothes aren't that different in Target or TJ Max.

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<v Speaker 3>They're exactly the same clothes actually, but they're much cheaper.

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<v Speaker 3>Why would I want to pay that price in the

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<v Speaker 3>department store?

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<v Speaker 1>I said, We're all about the deals, baby.

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<v Speaker 2>It's also really great when you can find something affordable

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<v Speaker 2>and you don't have to pay a high ticket price

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<v Speaker 2>just to get this thing. So like going through the

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<v Speaker 2>racks at Target and you find something that you feel

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<v Speaker 2>like is just perfect and it is affordable, that always

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<v Speaker 2>feels good.

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<v Speaker 1>So the retail apocalypse happened because people were buying Mora

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<v Speaker 1>online and they're looking for better deals. What's the third reason?

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<v Speaker 3>The other thing, and this one I think is really interesting,

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<v Speaker 3>fundamentally interesting. A lot of what sold in department stores

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<v Speaker 3>is cosmetics mean beauty, and people were not shopping for

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<v Speaker 3>their beauty and cosmetics in the Macy's anymore. Where were

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<v Speaker 3>they going. They were going to Sophora. They were going

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<v Speaker 3>to Altam.

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<v Speaker 1>And since the pandemic hit, the rate of stores closing

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<v Speaker 1>has dramatically accelerated. According to doctor Con, two hundred thousand

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<v Speaker 1>stores closed in March and April twenty twenty when COVID

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<v Speaker 1>led to a ton of shutdowns.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and a lot of stores didn't the pandemic. But

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't mean people stop shopping. Pandemic or not. People

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<v Speaker 2>still want new clothes. Doctor Con mentioned Sephora a minute ago,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to talk about that a little more

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<v Speaker 2>because it seems like the experience of shopping has really

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<v Speaker 2>changed and Sephora has been a main driver of that.

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<v Speaker 2>So what's the difference between shopping at Macy's, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>and Sephora.

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<v Speaker 3>What I would argue is that Macy's was selling in

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<v Speaker 3>what I'm going to call a product focused or a

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<v Speaker 3>sales push approach. So if you think about shopping for

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<v Speaker 3>cosmetics and Macy's, what happens you go into the store,

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<v Speaker 3>if you want to try something on, you got to

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<v Speaker 3>talk to a salesperson. She's got to get it from

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<v Speaker 3>behind the counter. Now, these salespeople are on commission. You

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<v Speaker 3>don't have to be too sophisticated to instantly know they're

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<v Speaker 3>pushing product at you, they're up selling you, they're cross

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<v Speaker 3>selling you. Sephora is nothing like that. The salespeople are

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<v Speaker 3>not on commission. They're honestly there just to help you.

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<v Speaker 3>And all the product was out, you could try anything

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<v Speaker 3>on yourself. You could bring all your friends, put on

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<v Speaker 3>makeup and leave and nobody would give you any.

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<v Speaker 1>BUSHFA doctor con calls this customer focus experiential retail, meaning

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<v Speaker 1>it's not about price or the product, but how you

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<v Speaker 1>feel when you're in the store. So the shift from

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<v Speaker 1>a store like Macy's to a store like Sephora is

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<v Speaker 1>from product focused to more customer focus to retail.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes sense to me. I like to buy a

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<v Speaker 2>new makeup, and what I don't like is when I

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<v Speaker 2>go into a store and the customer sales rep is

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<v Speaker 2>trying to convince me to buy something that I don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to buy, or saying, oh, you know that green

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<v Speaker 2>blush is not gonna look good on you. I saw

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<v Speaker 2>Rihanna wearing green blush. I want to wear green blush too.

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<v Speaker 2>Mind your business. You're ruining my experience.

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<v Speaker 1>And even if you want that green blush tt it's

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<v Speaker 1>not just that in store experience that helped sepphor Win.

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<v Speaker 1>It's also about the online retail experience as well.

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<v Speaker 3>So for also behind the scenes was very sophisticated online.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of what's happened in makeup, beauty and fashion

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<v Speaker 3>has come from the bottom up. So some of the

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<v Speaker 3>biggest opinion leaders in what's new in makeup, we're sixteen

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<v Speaker 3>year old high school girls. And where do you see that?

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<v Speaker 3>You see that in YouTube?

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube, yes, and Instagram and TikTok, really all over the internet.

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<v Speaker 2>Every single corner of the Internet. The shift from in

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<v Speaker 2>person to online shopping has really taken off in the

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<v Speaker 2>past year, and even faster than predicted because COVID. But

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<v Speaker 2>it's not just because of COVID. It's also reflective of

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<v Speaker 2>shoppers changing preferences and habits.

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<v Speaker 1>And at this point doctor con actually flipped the script

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<v Speaker 1>for a minute and asked us some questions about our

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<v Speaker 1>personal shopping habits online and how we make decisions about

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<v Speaker 1>what tobias customers.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm curious, how much do you trust what the online

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<v Speaker 3>experience would be. So they're using augmented reality a little bit.

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<v Speaker 3>You can put makeup on your face, not for real,

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<v Speaker 3>but like it seems like it's for real and also

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<v Speaker 3>Athleta or Lululemon or those they'll have these different models

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<v Speaker 3>and different shapes and sizes. They'll tell you what size

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<v Speaker 3>they wear, and then you can see how clothes fit

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<v Speaker 3>on them and maybe guess how they fit on you.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm curious, is that working as sophisticated customers? Do you

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<v Speaker 3>think that's a good experience? Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, that is exactly what I do. If I see

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<v Speaker 2>something cute, the first thing I do is go down

0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.520
<v Speaker 2>the page and look at all the details. I want

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 2>to know the model's height, the materials that this stuff

0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.120
<v Speaker 2>is made from. If she's five to eleven, I'm five

0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.080
<v Speaker 2>to five. I know that skirt might not hit me

0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.600
<v Speaker 2>at the same part of my leg? What about Yuzekiah.

0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Same, same, same. And it's not even just clothing, it's

0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.480
<v Speaker 1>across multiple categories. I want to see what this lipstick

0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.440
<v Speaker 1>shade is going to look like on my skin color,

0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.480
<v Speaker 1>my skin tone, So four, lets me do that. I'm

0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 1>laying in the bed putting on blush. It's not green,

0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:01.920
<v Speaker 1>but I'm still trying it on at home.

0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 2>I also like that now some places are even including

0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.600
<v Speaker 2>like a short video of the model walking in the clothes,

0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.520
<v Speaker 2>so you can see like, oh, this actually isn't as

0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:13.600
<v Speaker 2>flowy as I thought. This is actually a little bit

0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:18.280
<v Speaker 2>more rigid, or oh this doesn't really sit well, or

0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 2>there's some buncheon when you walk like. These are all

0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.320
<v Speaker 2>things that I would like to know before purchasing.

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:33.199
<v Speaker 1>Another feature that I'm really enjoying is augmented reality. I

0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 1>want to see what this is going to look like

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.959
<v Speaker 1>in my house? Is this too big? Is it too small?

0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Do I do that with every pair of glasses that

0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.040
<v Speaker 2>I buy. Before I purchase, I do the augmented reality,

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 2>and I put those glasses on my face like through

0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.160
<v Speaker 2>my phone, Like you can upload a picture and then

0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.200
<v Speaker 2>put yeah glasses on yourself. So I take a picture

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.920
<v Speaker 2>of my face straight on and then I upload that

0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.840
<v Speaker 2>and I can see what each pair of glasses would

0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:57.480
<v Speaker 2>look like on me.

0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.840
<v Speaker 1>And that's exactly what Sephora is doing when I'm laying

0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:01.760
<v Speaker 1>in putting on blesh It's augmented reality.

0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:03.840
<v Speaker 2>And the other big thing that's changed for me is

0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 2>that shopping is definitely more of a solitary experience. Whereas

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.199
<v Speaker 2>I used to go to the mall with friends, now

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I do all of my shopping under the covers by

0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:13.920
<v Speaker 2>the light of the.

0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.439
<v Speaker 1>Moon, and not only has the experience of shopping change,

0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 1>but it feels like the ideas of fashion are also changing.

0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.720
<v Speaker 1>And we're going to talk all about it right after

0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:28.080
<v Speaker 1>the break.

0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 2>We're back, and now that we've talked about how things

0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 2>have changed, both in stores and online, we're going to

0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 2>zoom in on the state of fashion today. We're noticing

0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.040
<v Speaker 2>a lot of different trends in the world of fashion,

0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:54.040
<v Speaker 2>so let's talk about it.

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.400
<v Speaker 1>One thing I've heard a lot about lately is the

0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 1>idea of affordable luxury or luxury items that are more

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 1>accessible than how we typically think about luxury.

0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.960
<v Speaker 2>That immediately makes me think of Telfar.

0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:06.920
<v Speaker 1>So.

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Telfar is a brand that was founded by a Liberian

0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.640
<v Speaker 2>man named Telfar Clemens, and he's started making these really

0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 2>beautiful bags and everybody wanted to get their hands on them.

0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 2>But they're not luxury luxury price bags like a Gucci

0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 2>bag or whatever. They're definitely more affordable, but people are

0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.320
<v Speaker 2>classifying it as affordable luxury. I mean, even Beyonce was

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:30.600
<v Speaker 2>seen wearing a Telfar bag.

0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I've seen something similar to that, providing

0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 1>the luxury experience of like unboxing and unpacking getting it first.

0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.000
<v Speaker 1>I've seen that with the Glamahollock brand, which is by

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.920
<v Speaker 1>a woman out of Detroit, Mia Ray, who I've been

0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 1>following for years since we were in grad school TT

0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.800
<v Speaker 1>and I've just seen her grow that brand over the

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.320
<v Speaker 1>past five or six years that I've been following, and

0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 1>it's just really cool to see people are rushing to

0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:01.280
<v Speaker 1>her page when she releases a new collector and selling out.

0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.440
<v Speaker 1>And there's also a community very similar to the tail

0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 1>far community you see where people are like, oh, I

0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.200
<v Speaker 1>saw another person with til far Beg. You know, there's

0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:11.400
<v Speaker 1>this community around affordable luxury that makes it something that

0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 1>you want to be a part of.

0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it like takes the lux out of the price tag,

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.920
<v Speaker 2>but you still get a really high quality product, which

0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.640
<v Speaker 2>is amazing because sometimes you trying to equate, you know,

0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:26.040
<v Speaker 2>something not being as expensive with low quality. But what

0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.120
<v Speaker 2>they're showing is you can have it all.

0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.480
<v Speaker 1>We talked to dot tor con about how luxury is

0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:31.400
<v Speaker 1>being redefined.

0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.280
<v Speaker 3>Historically, luxury was very much top down and the industry

0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.800
<v Speaker 3>told you what to wear, The designers told you what

0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 3>to wear. It was very high and it was very exclusive.

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.960
<v Speaker 3>People couldn't go to fashion shows. You had to be

0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:51.160
<v Speaker 3>Beyonce probably to go to a fashion show. And it

0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.800
<v Speaker 3>made sense. What do you know about fashion? Nothing? What

0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.720
<v Speaker 3>do these designers know about fashion? Everything? So I'm gonna

0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.960
<v Speaker 3>listen to what they say. The other thing that's going

0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 3>on is this bottom up fashion. The influencers like Kanye West,

0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:09.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, I mean, he really influences fashion. His collaboration

0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.399
<v Speaker 3>with Gap. Whether that will work, I don't know, but

0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.760
<v Speaker 3>it is interesting and deciding who makes fashion. Now we're

0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.120
<v Speaker 3>seeing everything happening.

0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.960
<v Speaker 2>This is such a great point because what this does,

0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.639
<v Speaker 2>this bottom up approach that fashion is starting to shift

0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.840
<v Speaker 2>a little bit towards, is that it gives people access

0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.400
<v Speaker 2>to luxury everyone, so no matter what your income level is,

0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.000
<v Speaker 2>you might be able to experience that slice of life.

0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.440
<v Speaker 1>I'd argue that fashion has always been bottom up. Now

0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:43.840
<v Speaker 1>where that credit comes in can make it feel like

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.440
<v Speaker 1>it hasn't always been bottom up. But we know where

0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.680
<v Speaker 1>a lot of these influences are coming from. So it's

0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.080
<v Speaker 1>great to be able to see everybody getting the slice

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:51.880
<v Speaker 1>of the luxury pie.

0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.480
<v Speaker 3>Like you said, and there were tears. There were the

0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.720
<v Speaker 3>very high end, probably a highest as Louis Vuitton, there

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.760
<v Speaker 3>mez Chanel. Then there were the mid tier, which is

0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 3>affordable luxury. I think if Tory Birch and that some

0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.560
<v Speaker 3>of the high end luxury brands had an affordable line

0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:13.080
<v Speaker 3>like OURMANI would have AX. Then there's the TJ Maxis

0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.359
<v Speaker 3>of the world and the outlets of the world.

0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:19.480
<v Speaker 2>This reminds me of like when Vera Wang collaed with

0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 2>H and M. All those items sold out like immediately.

0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how anybody got anything, but I know

0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:29.760
<v Speaker 2>some people who did. But then it also reminds me

0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.480
<v Speaker 2>of Christopher John Rogers who has a collection with Target.

0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:39.000
<v Speaker 2>So you're getting these really beautiful outfits dresses, but at

0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.399
<v Speaker 2>a more affordable price, at a Target price or at

0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.879
<v Speaker 2>H and M price, So it gives everyone access to

0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.720
<v Speaker 2>these really lux brands like Vera Wang. I mean, honestly,

0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:48.960
<v Speaker 2>come on, that's crazy.

0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.480
<v Speaker 3>The one I remember in particular was the MASONI one,

0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.480
<v Speaker 3>and that crashed the website because MATHSONI is so identifiable,

0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.119
<v Speaker 3>the fabric is so clear, people know what it is.

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 3>I think, like, wow, is that gonna work? Is that

0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 3>a good idea? Why would MASONI want to go to Target?

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 3>And it turned out. It was brilliant. It was great

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.600
<v Speaker 3>for Massoni actually, because one of the things that makes

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.840
<v Speaker 3>luxury something people really aspire to is that people know

0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.360
<v Speaker 3>about it. So even if you couldn't afford Massoni at

0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:21.439
<v Speaker 3>the very high price level, you'd appreciate it. If you

0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.399
<v Speaker 3>saw somebody else wearing it and having it come to

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:28.480
<v Speaker 3>Target would broaden the appeal of the luxury play. Target

0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:33.200
<v Speaker 3>became so trendy, so targe, so fashioned, and you're seeing

0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:37.360
<v Speaker 3>a lot of those kinds of things happen, interesting collaborations

0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.840
<v Speaker 3>like Louis Vautone, which is a very high end brand,

0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.840
<v Speaker 3>partnering with Supreme, which is a street brand.

0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.960
<v Speaker 1>When we talk about affordability, another thing that comes to

0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:54.880
<v Speaker 1>mind is fast fashion.

0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.800
<v Speaker 3>I think a fast fashion in two different buckets. One

0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.439
<v Speaker 3>is what I think Zara does, which is go to

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.560
<v Speaker 3>the fashion shows, see what the designers are doing, instantly

0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.800
<v Speaker 3>copy it and get it in the store as quickly

0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 3>as possible. Then there's the other things which Forever twenty

0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:15.520
<v Speaker 3>one and H and M more more like, which I

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:19.120
<v Speaker 3>think of this fast fashion or almost the throwaway culture.

0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.000
<v Speaker 3>So that idea was come up with the trends really

0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.200
<v Speaker 3>quickly and cheaply, make them in the store so everybody

0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.040
<v Speaker 3>can wear them really fast. Don't make them that well,

0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.280
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't matter because it's so stylish. People aren't going

0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.520
<v Speaker 3>to want to wear them for that law. And if

0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:35.280
<v Speaker 3>they fall apart, they fall apart. Who cares.

0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.240
<v Speaker 2>What Barbara is saying is that fast fashion can be

0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.240
<v Speaker 2>considered fast in two different ways. It's how fast it's

0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:45.160
<v Speaker 2>produced and in how fast it's consumed and then discarded.

0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 2>And those stores she mentioned in the latter example, Forever

0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty one and H and M, along with a Sauce

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:55.320
<v Speaker 2>and Chinese retailers she and, are now being called ultra

0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.000
<v Speaker 2>fast fashion brands due to the sheer speed at which

0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.560
<v Speaker 2>they can produce new trends. Retailers like Asoce drop at

0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:06.520
<v Speaker 2>least five thousand new styles a week. That's crazy, and

0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:11.240
<v Speaker 2>she In offers seven hundred to one thousand new styles daily.

0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:16.440
<v Speaker 1>That's too much fashion. I'm sorry, that's too many outfits.

0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.840
<v Speaker 2>And then when you see the people purchasing from she And,

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.720
<v Speaker 2>they're getting huge bags of clothes. Their shipments are just

0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:31.240
<v Speaker 2>huge because it's really really affordable and they can get

0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot of trends basically overnight. If you see Marseille

0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Martin wearing a really cute dress. Chances are you can

0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.320
<v Speaker 2>go on she In and find a knockoff of that

0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 2>same dress for a fraction of the price and get

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:45.439
<v Speaker 2>it in a few days.

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.640
<v Speaker 1>That's really wild to me, though, How are they producing

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.200
<v Speaker 1>this stuff so fast? Now? Granted I'm no dressmaker, I'm

0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:56.159
<v Speaker 1>no seamstress, but I have taken a sewing class, and

0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:59.199
<v Speaker 1>it feels like it should take a long time to

0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.639
<v Speaker 1>just sew in general, and that's assuming you already have

0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:06.680
<v Speaker 1>the fabric made. This is wild to me. I think

0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:10.640
<v Speaker 1>the other side of the fast fashion and ultra fashion

0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:16.680
<v Speaker 1>lanes on social media is this countering kind of slow fashion,

0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:22.600
<v Speaker 1>really curated closets, kind of sustainable consumption of style that

0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.880
<v Speaker 1>I've been seeing with some of the influencers on Instagram too.

0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:29.359
<v Speaker 1>This was like my introduction to okay, girl, get it together.

0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:31.439
<v Speaker 1>Do you ever see people and they just look like

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:36.040
<v Speaker 1>they always have their look together, like they have a

0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:39.000
<v Speaker 1>staple style. Those are the people I started following. I

0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:47.520
<v Speaker 1>was like, how can I do that? But a lot

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.360
<v Speaker 1>of this really depends on different factors, including budget, right,

0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.640
<v Speaker 1>So if you're trying to buy things that are sustainably made.

0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.720
<v Speaker 1>You have to have some sustained dollars. It costs more.

0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:58.879
<v Speaker 2>You gotta have sustainability pockets.

0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:01.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes, you have to kind of get in where you

0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:02.800
<v Speaker 1>fit in and find what works for you.

0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:05.520
<v Speaker 2>It's not to say that if you purchase from San

0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:10.320
<v Speaker 2>you're automatically not sustainable. Yes, probably in the production of

0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:12.600
<v Speaker 2>the clothing it is not sustainable. But if you were

0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:15.439
<v Speaker 2>to purchase something from San and you keep it and

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.280
<v Speaker 2>you wear it, or when you're finished wearing it, you

0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:21.199
<v Speaker 2>repurpose it for something else, there's another way that you

0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:24.320
<v Speaker 2>can be sustainable on the back end. Not everybody has

0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.320
<v Speaker 2>the dollars to be able to say, oh, I'm going

0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.679
<v Speaker 2>to go into this store and buy this top that

0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:35.760
<v Speaker 2>is two hundred dollars because it is sustainable. Not everybody

0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:36.960
<v Speaker 2>has that.

0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:38.760
<v Speaker 1>I think that's a great point. There are a lot

0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:41.080
<v Speaker 1>of ways to think about sustainability, and we have to

0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.719
<v Speaker 1>save that for part two.

0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:52.400
<v Speaker 2>It's clear that the motivation and influences or influencers behind

0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:55.879
<v Speaker 2>our purchases have also been changing. We talked to doctor

0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 2>con about what and who is driving our shopping decisions.

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:02.200
<v Speaker 3>So let's talk about it at a bunch of different levels.

0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:05.160
<v Speaker 3>So one level is the TikTok level that you're talking about,

0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:08.040
<v Speaker 3>which is very interesting. It's starting to happen here in

0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:11.560
<v Speaker 3>the US, but it was rampant in China. So one

0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:14.840
<v Speaker 3>of the things that happened during COVID in China was

0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:18.960
<v Speaker 3>an incredible acceleration of live streaming. And you're seeing these

0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:21.760
<v Speaker 3>people who live stream that are these what they call

0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:25.640
<v Speaker 3>key opinion leaders. So those are the KOLs, and they're

0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:29.840
<v Speaker 3>the big influencers, and they're some really really big, tremendous

0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:33.000
<v Speaker 3>ones in China that live stream every single day, maybe

0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:36.440
<v Speaker 3>for four hours a day. It's absolutely a business and

0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:39.880
<v Speaker 3>they are communicating with their customers in real time.

0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:42.680
<v Speaker 1>You know, the live streaming part is really an interesting

0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:46.880
<v Speaker 1>development because that makes it feel really personal, like I'm

0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:48.359
<v Speaker 1>on FaceTime with this person.

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:53.120
<v Speaker 3>And really what characterizes these KOLs is authenticity. You kind

0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:56.240
<v Speaker 3>of have to really believe them and trust them in

0:24:56.359 --> 0:24:58.800
<v Speaker 3>order for them to be so influential, which is a

0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:01.680
<v Speaker 3>little bit of the noxim war, because as they get

0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:06.800
<v Speaker 3>to be so big and probably rich, how authentic are they?

0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:10.280
<v Speaker 3>So you have seen the move to what in China

0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:15.639
<v Speaker 3>are called kocs, which are key opinion customers, and that's

0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:19.800
<v Speaker 3>different than the KOLs. Maybe they have five ten thousand followers,

0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:22.639
<v Speaker 3>is not nearly as big, and they're not being paid,

0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:28.120
<v Speaker 3>but they are sophisticated customers and they're quite influential because

0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.320
<v Speaker 3>people like to hear what other customers say.

0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:36.120
<v Speaker 2>Right, I always read the reviews. Hearing from customers who

0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:39.760
<v Speaker 2>aren't getting paid to tell me what to think is

0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:43.160
<v Speaker 2>a huge motivator, and I think a motivator for everybody

0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:43.760
<v Speaker 2>these days.

0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I don't know about you, but when I'm looking

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:49.320
<v Speaker 1>through the reviews, I like when people post photos. People

0:25:49.359 --> 0:25:53.359
<v Speaker 1>are now uploading videos and reviewing things videos, I feel

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:57.720
<v Speaker 1>like all of that is part of the community of shopping. Absolutely,

0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:00.000
<v Speaker 1>And so even though the actual act of like purchase

0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:02.600
<v Speaker 1>and closed in some way has become more isolated or

0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:07.040
<v Speaker 1>like an individualized experience, we're not necessarily making our decisions

0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:11.160
<v Speaker 1>in isolation. We're constantly being influenced online, even if it's

0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:14.920
<v Speaker 1>social media advertisements, or we're seeking guidance from someone on YouTube,

0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:17.520
<v Speaker 1>or you're writing me back and saying no, girl, that

0:26:17.560 --> 0:26:21.200
<v Speaker 1>looks crazy. You know, we're getting input from all these places.

0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it also makes me think about another big

0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:27.159
<v Speaker 2>trend we're seeing in today's fashion climate, which is drop

0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:30.679
<v Speaker 2>culture and sneaker culture. Beyonce ab We'll put out some

0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Instagram photos and videos, whole campaign ads for another line,

0:26:36.040 --> 0:26:39.240
<v Speaker 2>and then they drop it for one day it's online

0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:42.480
<v Speaker 2>and then maybe in some select stores, and so everybody

0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:45.480
<v Speaker 2>is in a mad rush to get their hands on

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:46.360
<v Speaker 2>those items.

0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:49.600
<v Speaker 1>We ask doctor con to explain to us the principle

0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:54.000
<v Speaker 1>behind drop culture and just how much power it has

0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:54.680
<v Speaker 1>for brands.

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:58.439
<v Speaker 3>That's based on the psychological principle of scarcity. You know,

0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:02.280
<v Speaker 3>if things are scarce, value it more, and sometimes you

0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:05.040
<v Speaker 3>want it just because nobody else can have it. Drop

0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:09.040
<v Speaker 3>culture was pretty interesting because yes it was about getting

0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:12.200
<v Speaker 3>one of the few products that were available, but the

0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:16.479
<v Speaker 3>drop culture also was an experience. Waiting on that line

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:20.520
<v Speaker 3>and waiting for the drop was fun. So the other

0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:25.120
<v Speaker 3>idea about luxury is not only owning the material product,

0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:28.760
<v Speaker 3>but being part of this exclusive experience.

0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Even though I would say we are sophisticated consumers t T,

0:27:41.320 --> 0:27:42.879
<v Speaker 1>I still feel like I learned a lot. There was

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:45.680
<v Speaker 1>a lot I didn't really pay attention to. And we

0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:47.520
<v Speaker 1>need to give Sepphoria It's flowers.

0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, they are blazing the trail for all things online. Shopping.

0:27:54.160 --> 0:27:57.360
<v Speaker 1>One of the things that I'm appreciating a little bit

0:27:57.400 --> 0:28:03.719
<v Speaker 1>more is just how much more inclusive mainstream fashion at

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:08.399
<v Speaker 1>least is becoming. Just how many different types of experiences

0:28:08.680 --> 0:28:12.320
<v Speaker 1>brands are now catering to. I'm all for it, whether

0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:16.080
<v Speaker 1>that means affordable luxury, whether that means a variety of

0:28:16.119 --> 0:28:20.879
<v Speaker 1>shopping experiences in store, a hybrid version, all online, whether

0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:23.719
<v Speaker 1>you want a big influencer to tell you what to do,

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:26.120
<v Speaker 1>or you want to be in a small little community

0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:28.800
<v Speaker 1>with a micro influencer. It just feels like everything is

0:28:28.840 --> 0:28:30.520
<v Speaker 1>possible now, it's all on the table.

0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:35.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and defining luxury for yourself. I feel like back

0:28:35.920 --> 0:28:38.720
<v Speaker 2>in the day, luxury was defined by not just the

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:40.880
<v Speaker 2>top down process like we were talking about, but just

0:28:40.920 --> 0:28:43.320
<v Speaker 2>like you know, what you see on television and what

0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:46.320
<v Speaker 2>all of the cool kids are wearing and everything like that.

0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:48.800
<v Speaker 2>I know I couldn't afford that stuff, so I didn't

0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:52.360
<v Speaker 2>have any of those things. But now it's like changing

0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:55.480
<v Speaker 2>the game where everybody, no matter what walk of life

0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:59.080
<v Speaker 2>you're coming from, can experience things that are lux and

0:28:59.120 --> 0:29:01.040
<v Speaker 2>so I think it's really and it's a really great

0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:04.560
<v Speaker 2>experience for everybody to be able to experience that part

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:21.520
<v Speaker 2>of consumerism.

0:29:21.640 --> 0:29:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, it's time for one thing where we share something

0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:28.840
<v Speaker 1>we liked or loved with you, Titi. What's your one thing?

0:29:29.120 --> 0:29:31.640
<v Speaker 2>My one thing this week is a woman named Imani

0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Barbaran and she goes by crutches and spice on TikTok

0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:41.840
<v Speaker 2>and she's at Imani Underscore barbering on Twitter. She is

0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:47.200
<v Speaker 2>black and disabled and she has really been lazing the

0:29:47.280 --> 0:29:52.280
<v Speaker 2>trail for disability awareness, especially during the pandemic. That's when

0:29:52.320 --> 0:29:54.600
<v Speaker 2>she was put on my for you page on TikTok.

0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:58.160
<v Speaker 2>She is amazing. She's very smart. You should definitely be

0:29:58.240 --> 0:30:01.560
<v Speaker 2>following her on all of her social because she is

0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:05.760
<v Speaker 2>a thought leader and very thought provoking. She is giving

0:30:05.800 --> 0:30:09.600
<v Speaker 2>it to the politicians and making sure that disability awareness

0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:12.040
<v Speaker 2>is at the forefront. I've learned so much from her.

0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:13.360
<v Speaker 2>What's your one Thing?

0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:18.120
<v Speaker 1>My one thing is the Institute of Black Imagination and

0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:21.200
<v Speaker 1>so this is a virtual hub that you can find

0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:26.840
<v Speaker 1>at Blackimagination dot com and it is the brainchild of

0:30:27.200 --> 0:30:30.280
<v Speaker 1>a lot of great artists, thought leaders, but specifically I

0:30:30.280 --> 0:30:33.840
<v Speaker 1>think it's the brainchild of Dario Calmes. Dario is like

0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:39.560
<v Speaker 1>a photographer, just a mastermind everything, everything, okay, yes, So

0:30:39.880 --> 0:30:43.320
<v Speaker 1>recently Blackimagination dot Com launched and there's so much to

0:30:43.400 --> 0:30:57.000
<v Speaker 1>explore there. I love it. That's it for Lap fifty two.

0:30:57.360 --> 0:31:00.280
<v Speaker 1>Call us at two zero two five six seven seven

0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 1>zero two eight and tell us what you thought, or

0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:04.880
<v Speaker 1>give us another idea for a different lab you think

0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.400
<v Speaker 1>we should do. We really love hearing from you. That's

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:10.120
<v Speaker 1>two o two five six seven seven zero two eight.

0:31:10.520 --> 0:31:12.840
<v Speaker 2>And don't forget there's so much more for you to

0:31:12.880 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 2>dig into on our website. There will be a cheat

0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 2>cheat there for today's lab and additional links and resources

0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:20.320
<v Speaker 2>in the show notes. Plus you can sign up for

0:31:20.360 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 2>our newsletter, so check it out at Dope labspodcast dot com.

0:31:27.400 --> 0:31:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Special thanks to today's guest expert, Barbara Con.

0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:34.040
<v Speaker 1>You can find her on Twitter at Barbara Con b

0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:35.600
<v Speaker 1>A R B A R.

0:31:35.480 --> 0:31:38.640
<v Speaker 2>A k A h N and make sure you check

0:31:38.680 --> 0:31:42.640
<v Speaker 2>out her book The Shopping Revolution, the updated and expanded edition,

0:31:43.000 --> 0:31:47.160
<v Speaker 2>How Retailers Succeed in an Era of Endless Disruption accelerated

0:31:47.240 --> 0:31:50.320
<v Speaker 2>by COVID nineteen. You can find us on Twitter and

0:31:50.360 --> 0:31:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Instagram at Dope Labs Podcast.

0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:55.360
<v Speaker 1>And TT's on Twitter and Instagram at d R Underscore

0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:56.360
<v Speaker 1>T S h O.

0:31:56.760 --> 0:31:59.720
<v Speaker 2>And you can find Zakia on Twitter and Instagram. At

0:31:59.840 --> 0:32:03.840
<v Speaker 2>z said So Dope Labs is a Spotify original production

0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:05.320
<v Speaker 2>from Mega Owned Media Group.

0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Our producers are Jenny Rattlett Mast and Lydia Smith of

0:32:08.480 --> 0:32:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Wave Runner Studios.

0:32:09.920 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Editing in sound design by Rob Smerciak.

0:32:12.760 --> 0:32:14.360
<v Speaker 1>Mixing by Hannes Brown.

0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex

0:32:18.560 --> 0:32:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Sugier from Spotify. Creative producers Candice Manriquez Wren and Corin Gilliard.

0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Special thanks to Shirley Ramos Yasmin of Fifi, Camu Elolia,

0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Till krat Key and Brian Marquis.

0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:34.760
<v Speaker 1>Executive producers from Mega Oh Media Group are us T

0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:51.360
<v Speaker 1>t Show, Dia and Zakiah Wattley