Speaker 1: I don't know if you've been paying attention, Tot, but
Speaker 1: I feel like fashion and shopping is everywhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like every social media site is incorporating
Speaker 2: shopping onto it now, like you can shop on Facebook, Instagram.
Speaker 2: I'm accidentally shopping on Instagram. I was like, oh, did.
Speaker 1: I just thought I was liking this post? I'm viewing
Speaker 1: a shop.
Speaker 2: Happens so quickly and how did I get here?
Speaker 1: Yes, And I have to admit I have really trained
Speaker 1: my algorithm to give me the outfits. Now you see
Speaker 1: what I have on. But I'm somehow in fashion Instagram. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm seeing amazing articles about the life of Andre Leon Tally,
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff about Virgil. I don't own anything
Speaker 1: off white, but the people I follow do I know.
Speaker 2: And then you see so many up and coming folks
Speaker 2: that are making their own brands. Honifa. Yes, that came
Speaker 2: up on my feet and now I'm obsessed. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I can afford anything but lovely.
Speaker 1: To look at tel Far just dropped a new bag too,
Speaker 1: and it's about six one hundred dollars. My timeline isn't
Speaker 1: a tizzy about it, so it's only right that we
Speaker 1: put shopping and fashion under the Microscope. I'm TT and
Speaker 1: I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science,
Speaker 2: pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship.
Speaker 1: This week, we're talking all about fashion. Now, it's no
Speaker 1: secret that we love to shop.
Speaker 2: Yes, a lot of our bonding in the early stages
Speaker 2: of our friendship was sending each other links or screenshot
Speaker 2: of different outfits that we saw on Tumblr that was like, ooh, girl,
Speaker 2: this would look cute on you.
Speaker 1: Yes. So in today's episode, we're going to do a
Speaker 1: deep dive on shopping, and specifically, we're taking a look
Speaker 1: at how retail has changed in the past decade.
Speaker 2: It seems like it's gone through a lot of changes
Speaker 2: and then the pandemic came and really shook things up.
Speaker 2: So we're really curious about what those changes are and
Speaker 2: why they're happening.
Speaker 1: So let's get into the recitation. I think if we
Speaker 1: take all of our recent shopping experiences, there are probably
Speaker 1: some key takeaways of what we know about shopping lately.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that we're doing a lot of online
Speaker 2: shopping to distance ourselves from people and for convenience.
Speaker 1: Right, and if we do shop online, it's more likely
Speaker 1: to be a hybrid. We're not just walking around aimlessly
Speaker 1: in the store. I do my research ahead of time, baby,
Speaker 1: I'm checking multiple sites, so I'm able to make a
Speaker 1: b line to exactly the right rack in the store
Speaker 1: for the exact item.
Speaker 2: I love that feature. You could say, is it in
Speaker 2: this store that is near where I live?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Say yes? Or no it's not within thirty miles. Okay,
Speaker 2: well I'm not going there.
Speaker 1: You have it.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of ads on social media, and influencers
Speaker 2: are constantly pushing product, especially with the changes in social media,
Speaker 2: like Instagram has made some updates to its platform that
Speaker 2: prioritizes shopping. So Instagram is slowly but surely morphing into
Speaker 2: an online retail store. Along with your best friend's photos
Speaker 2: from their wedding.
Speaker 1: There's just a lot less judgment around shopping than there
Speaker 1: used to be. The pandemic saw people really leaning on
Speaker 1: some retail therapy.
Speaker 2: When things started to open up to I think people
Speaker 2: really started buying a lot and also disclosing that they
Speaker 2: were buying a lot. I saw a meme that was
Speaker 2: like my budget for next month is zero dollars, do
Speaker 2: not invite me anywhere.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think this is great anecdotal evidence that things
Speaker 1: that we've noticed and trends we've noticed in our own
Speaker 1: friend groups. But there are still other things that I
Speaker 1: want to know, like how has retail changed not just
Speaker 1: in the pandemic, but in the past decade, and then
Speaker 1: how the pandemic change it even further.
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. And how has the shopping
Speaker 2: experience changed because of it?
Speaker 1: And what are people looking for? And what's motivating people
Speaker 1: to shop these days? We saw we could do it
Speaker 1: all from home, so how are they being marketed to
Speaker 1: what's convincing them to go in the stores now?
Speaker 2: And I would really like to get a snapshot of
Speaker 2: today's biggest retail trends. Fast fashion and affordable luxury. These
Speaker 2: are new terms that I hear a lot of people
Speaker 2: throwing around. Yes, I'm not entirely sure what they actually
Speaker 2: actually mean. What we always hear in the same sentence
Speaker 2: as fast fashion is sustainability, right, how fast fashion might
Speaker 2: be impacting our environment and our carbon footprint. So I
Speaker 2: think this would be a great opportunity for us to
Speaker 2: kind of split this episode into two so that we
Speaker 2: can make sure that we hit all of the major points.
Speaker 1: You're right, TT. We can start out here talking about
Speaker 1: how the trends of shopping have changed, and later we
Speaker 1: can come back and really dive into sustainability, manufacturing, really
Speaker 1: getting into understanding what has to happen now and in
Speaker 1: the future. Let's jump into the dissection.
Speaker 2: Our guest for this episode is Barbara Khan. She's the
Speaker 2: author of The Shopping Revolution.
Speaker 3: I'm Barbara Khan. I'm a professor of marketing at the
Speaker 3: Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, and for the
Speaker 3: last fifteen twenty years, I've been following the retailing industry
Speaker 3: and following fashion.
Speaker 1: Let's go back pre COVID, back to when shopping was
Speaker 1: a thing. When I think back, TT, I can remember
Speaker 1: when we used to go to the mall.
Speaker 2: Yes, in grad school. Yeah, going to the mall was
Speaker 2: a great pastime.
Speaker 1: And now we are going right to eye message and
Speaker 1: sharing those links.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm only on my phone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really makes me wonder what's been happening to stores.
Speaker 2: We asked doctor con to give us an overview of
Speaker 2: the retail industry in recent years.
Speaker 3: In twenty seventeen that was the year that was dubbed
Speaker 3: the retail apocalypse because eighty six hundred stores closed that year.
Speaker 3: Macy's department stores, for example, were closing, and those were
Speaker 3: really important stores to close because they anchor the mall.
Speaker 3: So you kind of saw this reverberating effect where a
Speaker 3: lot of these other stores closed. Then you might remember
Speaker 3: Toys r Us closed, Circuit City closed, Radio Shot close.
Speaker 3: A lot of people were saying it was the retail apocalypse,
Speaker 3: the end of physical retail. Now I wrote a book
Speaker 3: and I called it the Shopping Revolution, and my point
Speaker 3: at the time was not that this was the death
Speaker 3: of this retail, but that it was the death of
Speaker 3: bad retail.
Speaker 2: So what does she mean by bad retail? What exactly
Speaker 2: caused the stores to start closing in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: You're not allowed to just sit around and do nothing
Speaker 3: and hope the customers come to you.
Speaker 1: Doctor con says that the retail apocalypse happened for three
Speaker 1: main reasons.
Speaker 3: One was the online reason. We definitely saw the rise
Speaker 3: of Amazon and the rise of people instead of shopping
Speaker 3: in physical stores, some people were shopping or doing some
Speaker 3: of their shopping at least in e commerce.
Speaker 2: Economists call this the Amazon effect.
Speaker 3: The other thing that we were seeing was people weren't
Speaker 3: shopping in Macy's because they were going to TJ Max.
Speaker 3: They were going to Target, they were going to Walmart,
Speaker 3: They're going to Ross to Burlington.
Speaker 1: Yes, I am they they are meeting.
Speaker 3: The clothes aren't that different in Target or TJ Max.
Speaker 3: They're exactly the same clothes actually, but they're much cheaper.
Speaker 3: Why would I want to pay that price in the
Speaker 3: department store?
Speaker 1: I said, We're all about the deals, baby.
Speaker 2: It's also really great when you can find something affordable
Speaker 2: and you don't have to pay a high ticket price
Speaker 2: just to get this thing. So like going through the
Speaker 2: racks at Target and you find something that you feel
Speaker 2: like is just perfect and it is affordable, that always
Speaker 2: feels good.
Speaker 1: So the retail apocalypse happened because people were buying Mora
Speaker 1: online and they're looking for better deals. What's the third reason?
Speaker 3: The other thing, and this one I think is really interesting,
Speaker 3: fundamentally interesting. A lot of what sold in department stores
Speaker 3: is cosmetics mean beauty, and people were not shopping for
Speaker 3: their beauty and cosmetics in the Macy's anymore. Where were
Speaker 3: they going. They were going to Sophora. They were going
Speaker 3: to Altam.
Speaker 1: And since the pandemic hit, the rate of stores closing
Speaker 1: has dramatically accelerated. According to doctor Con, two hundred thousand
Speaker 1: stores closed in March and April twenty twenty when COVID
Speaker 1: led to a ton of shutdowns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of stores didn't the pandemic. But
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean people stop shopping. Pandemic or not. People
Speaker 2: still want new clothes. Doctor Con mentioned Sephora a minute ago,
Speaker 2: and I want to talk about that a little more
Speaker 2: because it seems like the experience of shopping has really
Speaker 2: changed and Sephora has been a main driver of that.
Speaker 2: So what's the difference between shopping at Macy's, for example,
Speaker 2: and Sephora.
Speaker 3: What I would argue is that Macy's was selling in
Speaker 3: what I'm going to call a product focused or a
Speaker 3: sales push approach. So if you think about shopping for
Speaker 3: cosmetics and Macy's, what happens you go into the store,
Speaker 3: if you want to try something on, you got to
Speaker 3: talk to a salesperson. She's got to get it from
Speaker 3: behind the counter. Now, these salespeople are on commission. You
Speaker 3: don't have to be too sophisticated to instantly know they're
Speaker 3: pushing product at you, they're up selling you, they're cross
Speaker 3: selling you. Sephora is nothing like that. The salespeople are
Speaker 3: not on commission. They're honestly there just to help you.
Speaker 3: And all the product was out, you could try anything
Speaker 3: on yourself. You could bring all your friends, put on
Speaker 3: makeup and leave and nobody would give you any.
Speaker 1: BUSHFA doctor con calls this customer focus experiential retail, meaning
Speaker 1: it's not about price or the product, but how you
Speaker 1: feel when you're in the store. So the shift from
Speaker 1: a store like Macy's to a store like Sephora is
Speaker 1: from product focused to more customer focus to retail.
Speaker 2: It makes sense to me. I like to buy a
Speaker 2: new makeup, and what I don't like is when I
Speaker 2: go into a store and the customer sales rep is
Speaker 2: trying to convince me to buy something that I don't
Speaker 2: want to buy, or saying, oh, you know that green
Speaker 2: blush is not gonna look good on you. I saw
Speaker 2: Rihanna wearing green blush. I want to wear green blush too.
Speaker 2: Mind your business. You're ruining my experience.
Speaker 1: And even if you want that green blush tt it's
Speaker 1: not just that in store experience that helped sepphor Win.
Speaker 1: It's also about the online retail experience as well.
Speaker 3: So for also behind the scenes was very sophisticated online.
Speaker 3: A lot of what's happened in makeup, beauty and fashion
Speaker 3: has come from the bottom up. So some of the
Speaker 3: biggest opinion leaders in what's new in makeup, we're sixteen
Speaker 3: year old high school girls. And where do you see that?
Speaker 3: You see that in YouTube?
Speaker 1: YouTube, yes, and Instagram and TikTok, really all over the internet.
Speaker 2: Every single corner of the Internet. The shift from in
Speaker 2: person to online shopping has really taken off in the
Speaker 2: past year, and even faster than predicted because COVID. But
Speaker 2: it's not just because of COVID. It's also reflective of
Speaker 2: shoppers changing preferences and habits.
Speaker 1: And at this point doctor con actually flipped the script
Speaker 1: for a minute and asked us some questions about our
Speaker 1: personal shopping habits online and how we make decisions about
Speaker 1: what tobias customers.
Speaker 3: I'm curious, how much do you trust what the online
Speaker 3: experience would be. So they're using augmented reality a little bit.
Speaker 3: You can put makeup on your face, not for real,
Speaker 3: but like it seems like it's for real and also
Speaker 3: Athleta or Lululemon or those they'll have these different models
Speaker 3: and different shapes and sizes. They'll tell you what size
Speaker 3: they wear, and then you can see how clothes fit
Speaker 3: on them and maybe guess how they fit on you.
Speaker 3: I'm curious, is that working as sophisticated customers? Do you
Speaker 3: think that's a good experience? Yes?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that is exactly what I do. If I see
Speaker 2: something cute, the first thing I do is go down
Speaker 2: the page and look at all the details. I want
Speaker 2: to know the model's height, the materials that this stuff
Speaker 2: is made from. If she's five to eleven, I'm five
Speaker 2: to five. I know that skirt might not hit me
Speaker 2: at the same part of my leg? What about Yuzekiah.
Speaker 1: Same, same, same. And it's not even just clothing, it's
Speaker 1: across multiple categories. I want to see what this lipstick
Speaker 1: shade is going to look like on my skin color,
Speaker 1: my skin tone, So four, lets me do that. I'm
Speaker 1: laying in the bed putting on blush. It's not green,
Speaker 1: but I'm still trying it on at home.
Speaker 2: I also like that now some places are even including
Speaker 2: like a short video of the model walking in the clothes,
Speaker 2: so you can see like, oh, this actually isn't as
Speaker 2: flowy as I thought. This is actually a little bit
Speaker 2: more rigid, or oh this doesn't really sit well, or
Speaker 2: there's some buncheon when you walk like. These are all
Speaker 2: things that I would like to know before purchasing.
Speaker 1: Another feature that I'm really enjoying is augmented reality. I
Speaker 1: want to see what this is going to look like
Speaker 1: in my house? Is this too big? Is it too small?
Speaker 2: Do I do that with every pair of glasses that
Speaker 2: I buy. Before I purchase, I do the augmented reality,
Speaker 2: and I put those glasses on my face like through
Speaker 2: my phone, Like you can upload a picture and then
Speaker 2: put yeah glasses on yourself. So I take a picture
Speaker 2: of my face straight on and then I upload that
Speaker 2: and I can see what each pair of glasses would
Speaker 2: look like on me.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what Sephora is doing when I'm laying
Speaker 1: in putting on blesh It's augmented reality.
Speaker 2: And the other big thing that's changed for me is
Speaker 2: that shopping is definitely more of a solitary experience. Whereas
Speaker 2: I used to go to the mall with friends, now
Speaker 2: I do all of my shopping under the covers by
Speaker 2: the light of the.
Speaker 1: Moon, and not only has the experience of shopping change,
Speaker 1: but it feels like the ideas of fashion are also changing.
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk all about it right after
Speaker 1: the break.
Speaker 2: We're back, and now that we've talked about how things
Speaker 2: have changed, both in stores and online, we're going to
Speaker 2: zoom in on the state of fashion today. We're noticing
Speaker 2: a lot of different trends in the world of fashion,
Speaker 2: so let's talk about it.
Speaker 1: One thing I've heard a lot about lately is the
Speaker 1: idea of affordable luxury or luxury items that are more
Speaker 1: accessible than how we typically think about luxury.
Speaker 2: That immediately makes me think of Telfar.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: Telfar is a brand that was founded by a Liberian
Speaker 2: man named Telfar Clemens, and he's started making these really
Speaker 2: beautiful bags and everybody wanted to get their hands on them.
Speaker 2: But they're not luxury luxury price bags like a Gucci
Speaker 2: bag or whatever. They're definitely more affordable, but people are
Speaker 2: classifying it as affordable luxury. I mean, even Beyonce was
Speaker 2: seen wearing a Telfar bag.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I've seen something similar to that, providing
Speaker 1: the luxury experience of like unboxing and unpacking getting it first.
Speaker 1: I've seen that with the Glamahollock brand, which is by
Speaker 1: a woman out of Detroit, Mia Ray, who I've been
Speaker 1: following for years since we were in grad school TT
Speaker 1: and I've just seen her grow that brand over the
Speaker 1: past five or six years that I've been following, and
Speaker 1: it's just really cool to see people are rushing to
Speaker 1: her page when she releases a new collector and selling out.
Speaker 1: And there's also a community very similar to the tail
Speaker 1: far community you see where people are like, oh, I
Speaker 1: saw another person with til far Beg. You know, there's
Speaker 1: this community around affordable luxury that makes it something that
Speaker 1: you want to be a part of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it like takes the lux out of the price tag,
Speaker 2: but you still get a really high quality product, which
Speaker 2: is amazing because sometimes you trying to equate, you know,
Speaker 2: something not being as expensive with low quality. But what
Speaker 2: they're showing is you can have it all.
Speaker 1: We talked to dot tor con about how luxury is
Speaker 1: being redefined.
Speaker 3: Historically, luxury was very much top down and the industry
Speaker 3: told you what to wear, The designers told you what
Speaker 3: to wear. It was very high and it was very exclusive.
Speaker 3: People couldn't go to fashion shows. You had to be
Speaker 3: Beyonce probably to go to a fashion show. And it
Speaker 3: made sense. What do you know about fashion? Nothing? What
Speaker 3: do these designers know about fashion? Everything? So I'm gonna
Speaker 3: listen to what they say. The other thing that's going
Speaker 3: on is this bottom up fashion. The influencers like Kanye West,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, he really influences fashion. His collaboration
Speaker 3: with Gap. Whether that will work, I don't know, but
Speaker 3: it is interesting and deciding who makes fashion. Now we're
Speaker 3: seeing everything happening.
Speaker 2: This is such a great point because what this does,
Speaker 2: this bottom up approach that fashion is starting to shift
Speaker 2: a little bit towards, is that it gives people access
Speaker 2: to luxury everyone, so no matter what your income level is,
Speaker 2: you might be able to experience that slice of life.
Speaker 1: I'd argue that fashion has always been bottom up. Now
Speaker 1: where that credit comes in can make it feel like
Speaker 1: it hasn't always been bottom up. But we know where
Speaker 1: a lot of these influences are coming from. So it's
Speaker 1: great to be able to see everybody getting the slice
Speaker 1: of the luxury pie.
Speaker 3: Like you said, and there were tears. There were the
Speaker 3: very high end, probably a highest as Louis Vuitton, there
Speaker 3: mez Chanel. Then there were the mid tier, which is
Speaker 3: affordable luxury. I think if Tory Birch and that some
Speaker 3: of the high end luxury brands had an affordable line
Speaker 3: like OURMANI would have AX. Then there's the TJ Maxis
Speaker 3: of the world and the outlets of the world.
Speaker 2: This reminds me of like when Vera Wang collaed with
Speaker 2: H and M. All those items sold out like immediately.
Speaker 2: I don't know how anybody got anything, but I know
Speaker 2: some people who did. But then it also reminds me
Speaker 2: of Christopher John Rogers who has a collection with Target.
Speaker 2: So you're getting these really beautiful outfits dresses, but at
Speaker 2: a more affordable price, at a Target price or at
Speaker 2: H and M price, So it gives everyone access to
Speaker 2: these really lux brands like Vera Wang. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 2: come on, that's crazy.
Speaker 3: The one I remember in particular was the MASONI one,
Speaker 3: and that crashed the website because MATHSONI is so identifiable,
Speaker 3: the fabric is so clear, people know what it is.
Speaker 3: I think, like, wow, is that gonna work? Is that
Speaker 3: a good idea? Why would MASONI want to go to Target?
Speaker 3: And it turned out. It was brilliant. It was great
Speaker 3: for Massoni actually, because one of the things that makes
Speaker 3: luxury something people really aspire to is that people know
Speaker 3: about it. So even if you couldn't afford Massoni at
Speaker 3: the very high price level, you'd appreciate it. If you
Speaker 3: saw somebody else wearing it and having it come to
Speaker 3: Target would broaden the appeal of the luxury play. Target
Speaker 3: became so trendy, so targe, so fashioned, and you're seeing
Speaker 3: a lot of those kinds of things happen, interesting collaborations
Speaker 3: like Louis Vautone, which is a very high end brand,
Speaker 3: partnering with Supreme, which is a street brand.
Speaker 1: When we talk about affordability, another thing that comes to
Speaker 1: mind is fast fashion.
Speaker 3: I think a fast fashion in two different buckets. One
Speaker 3: is what I think Zara does, which is go to
Speaker 3: the fashion shows, see what the designers are doing, instantly
Speaker 3: copy it and get it in the store as quickly
Speaker 3: as possible. Then there's the other things which Forever twenty
Speaker 3: one and H and M more more like, which I
Speaker 3: think of this fast fashion or almost the throwaway culture.
Speaker 3: So that idea was come up with the trends really
Speaker 3: quickly and cheaply, make them in the store so everybody
Speaker 3: can wear them really fast. Don't make them that well,
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter because it's so stylish. People aren't going
Speaker 3: to want to wear them for that law. And if
Speaker 3: they fall apart, they fall apart. Who cares.
Speaker 2: What Barbara is saying is that fast fashion can be
Speaker 2: considered fast in two different ways. It's how fast it's
Speaker 2: produced and in how fast it's consumed and then discarded.
Speaker 2: And those stores she mentioned in the latter example, Forever
Speaker 2: twenty one and H and M, along with a Sauce
Speaker 2: and Chinese retailers she and, are now being called ultra
Speaker 2: fast fashion brands due to the sheer speed at which
Speaker 2: they can produce new trends. Retailers like Asoce drop at
Speaker 2: least five thousand new styles a week. That's crazy, and
Speaker 2: she In offers seven hundred to one thousand new styles daily.
Speaker 1: That's too much fashion. I'm sorry, that's too many outfits.
Speaker 2: And then when you see the people purchasing from she And,
Speaker 2: they're getting huge bags of clothes. Their shipments are just
Speaker 2: huge because it's really really affordable and they can get
Speaker 2: a lot of trends basically overnight. If you see Marseille
Speaker 2: Martin wearing a really cute dress. Chances are you can
Speaker 2: go on she In and find a knockoff of that
Speaker 2: same dress for a fraction of the price and get
Speaker 2: it in a few days.
Speaker 1: That's really wild to me, though, How are they producing
Speaker 1: this stuff so fast? Now? Granted I'm no dressmaker, I'm
Speaker 1: no seamstress, but I have taken a sewing class, and
Speaker 1: it feels like it should take a long time to
Speaker 1: just sew in general, and that's assuming you already have
Speaker 1: the fabric made. This is wild to me. I think
Speaker 1: the other side of the fast fashion and ultra fashion
Speaker 1: lanes on social media is this countering kind of slow fashion,
Speaker 1: really curated closets, kind of sustainable consumption of style that
Speaker 1: I've been seeing with some of the influencers on Instagram too.
Speaker 1: This was like my introduction to okay, girl, get it together.
Speaker 1: Do you ever see people and they just look like
Speaker 1: they always have their look together, like they have a
Speaker 1: staple style. Those are the people I started following. I
Speaker 1: was like, how can I do that? But a lot
Speaker 1: of this really depends on different factors, including budget, right,
Speaker 1: So if you're trying to buy things that are sustainably made.
Speaker 1: You have to have some sustained dollars. It costs more.
Speaker 2: You gotta have sustainability pockets.
Speaker 1: Yes, you have to kind of get in where you
Speaker 1: fit in and find what works for you.
Speaker 2: It's not to say that if you purchase from San
Speaker 2: you're automatically not sustainable. Yes, probably in the production of
Speaker 2: the clothing it is not sustainable. But if you were
Speaker 2: to purchase something from San and you keep it and
Speaker 2: you wear it, or when you're finished wearing it, you
Speaker 2: repurpose it for something else, there's another way that you
Speaker 2: can be sustainable on the back end. Not everybody has
Speaker 2: the dollars to be able to say, oh, I'm going
Speaker 2: to go into this store and buy this top that
Speaker 2: is two hundred dollars because it is sustainable. Not everybody
Speaker 2: has that.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great point. There are a lot
Speaker 1: of ways to think about sustainability, and we have to
Speaker 1: save that for part two.
Speaker 2: It's clear that the motivation and influences or influencers behind
Speaker 2: our purchases have also been changing. We talked to doctor
Speaker 2: con about what and who is driving our shopping decisions.
Speaker 3: So let's talk about it at a bunch of different levels.
Speaker 3: So one level is the TikTok level that you're talking about,
Speaker 3: which is very interesting. It's starting to happen here in
Speaker 3: the US, but it was rampant in China. So one
Speaker 3: of the things that happened during COVID in China was
Speaker 3: an incredible acceleration of live streaming. And you're seeing these
Speaker 3: people who live stream that are these what they call
Speaker 3: key opinion leaders. So those are the KOLs, and they're
Speaker 3: the big influencers, and they're some really really big, tremendous
Speaker 3: ones in China that live stream every single day, maybe
Speaker 3: for four hours a day. It's absolutely a business and
Speaker 3: they are communicating with their customers in real time.
Speaker 1: You know, the live streaming part is really an interesting
Speaker 1: development because that makes it feel really personal, like I'm
Speaker 1: on FaceTime with this person.
Speaker 3: And really what characterizes these KOLs is authenticity. You kind
Speaker 3: of have to really believe them and trust them in
Speaker 3: order for them to be so influential, which is a
Speaker 3: little bit of the noxim war, because as they get
Speaker 3: to be so big and probably rich, how authentic are they?
Speaker 3: So you have seen the move to what in China
Speaker 3: are called kocs, which are key opinion customers, and that's
Speaker 3: different than the KOLs. Maybe they have five ten thousand followers,
Speaker 3: is not nearly as big, and they're not being paid,
Speaker 3: but they are sophisticated customers and they're quite influential because
Speaker 3: people like to hear what other customers say.
Speaker 2: Right, I always read the reviews. Hearing from customers who
Speaker 2: aren't getting paid to tell me what to think is
Speaker 2: a huge motivator, and I think a motivator for everybody
Speaker 2: these days.
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know about you, but when I'm looking
Speaker 1: through the reviews, I like when people post photos. People
Speaker 1: are now uploading videos and reviewing things videos, I feel
Speaker 1: like all of that is part of the community of shopping. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And so even though the actual act of like purchase
Speaker 1: and closed in some way has become more isolated or
Speaker 1: like an individualized experience, we're not necessarily making our decisions
Speaker 1: in isolation. We're constantly being influenced online, even if it's
Speaker 1: social media advertisements, or we're seeking guidance from someone on YouTube,
Speaker 1: or you're writing me back and saying no, girl, that
Speaker 1: looks crazy. You know, we're getting input from all these places.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it also makes me think about another big
Speaker 2: trend we're seeing in today's fashion climate, which is drop
Speaker 2: culture and sneaker culture. Beyonce ab We'll put out some
Speaker 2: Instagram photos and videos, whole campaign ads for another line,
Speaker 2: and then they drop it for one day it's online
Speaker 2: and then maybe in some select stores, and so everybody
Speaker 2: is in a mad rush to get their hands on
Speaker 2: those items.
Speaker 1: We ask doctor con to explain to us the principle
Speaker 1: behind drop culture and just how much power it has
Speaker 1: for brands.
Speaker 3: That's based on the psychological principle of scarcity. You know,
Speaker 3: if things are scarce, value it more, and sometimes you
Speaker 3: want it just because nobody else can have it. Drop
Speaker 3: culture was pretty interesting because yes it was about getting
Speaker 3: one of the few products that were available, but the
Speaker 3: drop culture also was an experience. Waiting on that line
Speaker 3: and waiting for the drop was fun. So the other
Speaker 3: idea about luxury is not only owning the material product,
Speaker 3: but being part of this exclusive experience.
Speaker 1: Even though I would say we are sophisticated consumers t T,
Speaker 1: I still feel like I learned a lot. There was
Speaker 1: a lot I didn't really pay attention to. And we
Speaker 1: need to give Sepphoria It's flowers.
Speaker 2: Yes, they are blazing the trail for all things online. Shopping.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm appreciating a little bit
Speaker 1: more is just how much more inclusive mainstream fashion at
Speaker 1: least is becoming. Just how many different types of experiences
Speaker 1: brands are now catering to. I'm all for it, whether
Speaker 1: that means affordable luxury, whether that means a variety of
Speaker 1: shopping experiences in store, a hybrid version, all online, whether
Speaker 1: you want a big influencer to tell you what to do,
Speaker 1: or you want to be in a small little community
Speaker 1: with a micro influencer. It just feels like everything is
Speaker 1: possible now, it's all on the table.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and defining luxury for yourself. I feel like back
Speaker 2: in the day, luxury was defined by not just the
Speaker 2: top down process like we were talking about, but just
Speaker 2: like you know, what you see on television and what
Speaker 2: all of the cool kids are wearing and everything like that.
Speaker 2: I know I couldn't afford that stuff, so I didn't
Speaker 2: have any of those things. But now it's like changing
Speaker 2: the game where everybody, no matter what walk of life
Speaker 2: you're coming from, can experience things that are lux and
Speaker 2: so I think it's really and it's a really great
Speaker 2: experience for everybody to be able to experience that part
Speaker 2: of consumerism.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's time for one thing where we share something
Speaker 1: we liked or loved with you, Titi. What's your one thing?
Speaker 2: My one thing this week is a woman named Imani
Speaker 2: Barbaran and she goes by crutches and spice on TikTok
Speaker 2: and she's at Imani Underscore barbering on Twitter. She is
Speaker 2: black and disabled and she has really been lazing the
Speaker 2: trail for disability awareness, especially during the pandemic. That's when
Speaker 2: she was put on my for you page on TikTok.
Speaker 2: She is amazing. She's very smart. You should definitely be
Speaker 2: following her on all of her social because she is
Speaker 2: a thought leader and very thought provoking. She is giving
Speaker 2: it to the politicians and making sure that disability awareness
Speaker 2: is at the forefront. I've learned so much from her.
Speaker 2: What's your one Thing?
Speaker 1: My one thing is the Institute of Black Imagination and
Speaker 1: so this is a virtual hub that you can find
Speaker 1: at Blackimagination dot com and it is the brainchild of
Speaker 1: a lot of great artists, thought leaders, but specifically I
Speaker 1: think it's the brainchild of Dario Calmes. Dario is like
Speaker 1: a photographer, just a mastermind everything, everything, okay, yes, So
Speaker 1: recently Blackimagination dot Com launched and there's so much to
Speaker 1: explore there. I love it. That's it for Lap fifty two.
Speaker 1: Call us at two zero two five six seven seven
Speaker 1: zero two eight and tell us what you thought, or
Speaker 1: give us another idea for a different lab you think
Speaker 1: we should do. We really love hearing from you. That's
Speaker 1: two o two five six seven seven zero two eight.
Speaker 2: And don't forget there's so much more for you to
Speaker 2: dig into on our website. There will be a cheat
Speaker 2: cheat there for today's lab and additional links and resources
Speaker 2: in the show notes. Plus you can sign up for
Speaker 2: our newsletter, so check it out at Dope labspodcast dot com.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to today's guest expert, Barbara Con.
Speaker 1: You can find her on Twitter at Barbara Con b
Speaker 1: A R B A R.
Speaker 2: A k A h N and make sure you check
Speaker 2: out her book The Shopping Revolution, the updated and expanded edition,
Speaker 2: How Retailers Succeed in an Era of Endless Disruption accelerated
Speaker 2: by COVID nineteen. You can find us on Twitter and
Speaker 2: Instagram at Dope Labs Podcast.
Speaker 1: And TT's on Twitter and Instagram at d R Underscore
Speaker 1: T S h O.
Speaker 2: And you can find Zakia on Twitter and Instagram. At
Speaker 2: z said So Dope Labs is a Spotify original production
Speaker 2: from Mega Owned Media Group.
Speaker 1: Our producers are Jenny Rattlett Mast and Lydia Smith of
Speaker 1: Wave Runner Studios.
Speaker 2: Editing in sound design by Rob Smerciak.
Speaker 1: Mixing by Hannes Brown.
Speaker 2: Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex
Speaker 2: Sugier from Spotify. Creative producers Candice Manriquez Wren and Corin Gilliard.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Shirley Ramos Yasmin of Fifi, Camu Elolia,
Speaker 2: Till krat Key and Brian Marquis.
Speaker 1: Executive producers from Mega Oh Media Group are us T
Speaker 1: t Show, Dia and Zakiah Wattley