WEBVTT - Netflix Craters After Shock Subscriber Drop 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.640 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.160 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.960 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. I gotta say not fun 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.760 watching shares of Netflix dropped like a rock, especially if 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:39.000 you here are an investor. Stock down nearly's lows, today's 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.720 creating as investors punished the company for shock loss and 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.720 subscribers in an abrupt turnabout to embrace advertising after years 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:47.720 of not so we gotta get this story. A few 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.000 people know as much about Netflix as our own Lucas 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.640 Shaw does. He's entertainment reporter for Bloomberg News. He joins 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:54.480 us now on the phone from l A. Lucas. For 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:56.680 years we heard from read Hastings and Company that it 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:58.880 didn't matter if people shared their passwords and that they 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:05.040 were never going to bring advertising into Netflix. What what 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.760 what prompted this about Face? It's a great question in 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.640 one twitch, I don't think anyone has the clear answer. Uh. 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.080 You know, I've asked people up and down the company 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.160 today because as recently as a you know, a month ago, 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.160 they were saying that the strategy was just to stay 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.920 the course. But it's clear that they have been spooked 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.800 both by the subscriber losses in the most recent quarter, 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.120 in the first quarter, and what they're seeing happening in 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.520 the current one. The second you know this is this 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:40.759 has been a growth stock for the last fifteen twenty years. Uh, 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.040 and they're not growing anymore, and so they need to 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.320 try a bunch of different things. And what they announced 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.080 yesterday felt a little bit to me like the kitchen 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:49.919 sink approach, where they were just sort of throwing everything 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:51.840 at people. All the things they said they wouldn't do, 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:53.800 they now say they will. The only the only thing 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:55.800 that they're sort of holding the lines on, holding the 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.080 line on his sports. It did feel like a little 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:01.320 tinge of desperation and kind of jumping the shark a 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:05.280 little bit. Um, I mean, is it just that there's 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.480 so much more competition? Is it that we're coming out 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.520 of the pandemic and we're all tired of sitting on 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.080 the couch watching stuff? Is it a couple of things 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:15.880 that play or is it what is it? Yeah, it's 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.280 hard to pick one reason. You know that the company 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.519 identified for they talked about smart TV penetration, they talked 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.000 about competition, they talked about password sharing. Um, you know, 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:28.880 you identified one that that they spoke about less. But 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:30.560 I think it is also an issue, which is people 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:32.880 are going out into the world and you know, they're 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.480 they're just not as interested in staying home and watching TV. 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.800 You know, it's always hard to diagnose one reason for 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.640 something like this. I do think the competition and reopening 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.160 are probably the two biggest factors. Because password schairing has 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.079 been been an issue for Netflix for a long time, 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.120 they're now saying they're going to do more to combat it. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.600 But it's not a new problem. The new problem is 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.360 that people have a lot of other things that they 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.600 want to do with their time, including other services where 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.440 they can get pretty much that you know, this the 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.639 same quality shows and often actually had a cheaper price, right, Hey, 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.280 I do wonder you know, Lucas. I think all of 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.000 us were kind of shocked with the headline crossed about 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.919 Netflix losing subscribers yesterday, to the point where like, wait a, ma, 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.040 is this a mistake? Right? Because it was just not 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.800 what we were anticipating. Here we are kind of the 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.919 morning after. How are you thinking about the Netflix story 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.240 going forward? What are you hearing? Are kind of the 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.600 smart conversations to be having, because I'm thinking about a 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.200 lot of investors out there are pretty pretty spooked right now. 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:29.480 They have they have a right to be spooked. This 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:31.560 is the most vulnerable the company has felt in a 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:35.160 long time. Um, you know, it's it's not really clear 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.480 exactly where they go from here. I think some of 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:42.640 the comments from read Hastings and others caught people even 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.040 inside the company off guard. Um you know, I remember 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.800 having a meeting with someone at Netflix, uh, you know, 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.680 a few months ago in which I detected a shift 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.800 and how they were talking about advertising and it felt 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:55.720 to me like this was coming. And when I asked 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:57.280 other people at the company, they told me not to 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.440 make too much of it. And so the clearly things 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:01.920 have changed over the last couple of months. You know, 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.360 if you take what what read Hastings said yesterday, it 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:06.560 feels like they're in the you know, they're they're just 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.360 trying stuff right now. I don't think they have any 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.360 idea exactly what advertising on their service is going to 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.040 look like. I don't think they are they have a 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.159 ton of confidence or certainty that trying to curR password 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.479 sharing is going to work. And one of the things 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:23.159 that that did strike me yesterday was that they didn't 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.600 talk a lot in about content or shows in in 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.520 diagnosing their problems. They've always attributed you know, the quality 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.720 of their shows and popular titles with attracting new subscribers, 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:36.839 and you'd think that maybe that's one of the reasons 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.320 why they've they've now run into a problem, is that 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.479 their shows aren't being as effective at bringing people in 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:44.839 Lucas I see a drop like this, and I think 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.560 back to more than ten years ago, the quick Stir debacle, 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.359 when Read Hastings had to come out and essentially apologize 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.000 for confusing consumers about splitting the businesses and to one 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.599 the DVD business, the other, of course, the streaming business 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.040 that it's now known for is this another quick a 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.440 moment for the company where it doesn't really understand its 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.360 identity moving forward. Well, so it's interesting that you bring 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:10.040 that up because Quickster was the last time that that 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:15.200 they had a subscriber loss. But Quickster was was more 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.920 of a like a kind of a an optics error 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.320 or or a minor tactical ayer. The big picture strategy 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.880 was dead on what retast Things was trying to do 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:29.680 with the company in splitting DVD by mail from from streaming, 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.280 was getting ahead of what he saw as the next 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.360 evolution in entertainment. And Netflix has been ahead of the curve, 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.200 first with that and then with producing original programming. They 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:40.040 sort of saw the threat to their business and they 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.320 got ahead of it. What's interesting this time to me 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.080 is it feels more reactive. You know, Netflix is now 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.839 the incumbent and they're not really sure what their next 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.760 move should be. Um So I actually think it's a 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.480 it's a totally different situation similar in that you know, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.080 there's there's now an existential threat, but they don't necessarily 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.120 have the answer. Just got first of all, Netflix DVDs, 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.480 I mean in the mail just sounds so quaint. Hey 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.359 just got about twenty thirty seconds here, Lucas um, should 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.320 we not be counting Netflix out or read hastings. No. 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:15.160 I mean, look, this is a company with two million customers, 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.280 run by one of the most successful entrepreneurs in the 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.960 last twenty years. It's not like it's going to die tomorrow, 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:22.080 but they do face a greater challenge than they have 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.360 in a very long time. All Right, we're gonna run. Hey, 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.920 great reporting and great conversation. Of course, our Bloomberg News 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:32.120 Entertainment reporter Lucas Shaw. Netflix shares tanking today. They're now 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:37.800 down six so far here in two stocks down right now. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:39.919 Lucas the story the most read on the Blueberg terminal 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.160 in the last eight hours. Already tweetered it out if 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.240 you haven't read it yet on Blueberg dot com. We're 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:49.239 still reeling from that. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.359 with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.960 Bloomberg Radio. So we are focusing, like all of us, 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.440 on what's going on with Netflix still down about thirty 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.440 six percent. It's also dragging down some other members of 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.960 the media group. Roku is down more than five percent. 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:09.120 Paramount is down seven point four percent. Disney UH is 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.640 down about five percent. So we want to bring in 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.720 a member of our Bloomberg Intelligence team who watches this space. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:16.960 It just has some great insight, and we're talking about 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.440 Gita Rockney, goth and technology and media analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence. 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.440 She joins us on the phone from our Princeton, New 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:24.720 Jersey bureau, Guita. I know it's been a very busy 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.440 day for you, so we certainly appreciate you taking the time. 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.160 We spoke to Lucas specifically about Netflix in the last 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.120 few minutes. We want to broaden the conversation with you 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:35.560 and talk more about the ecosystem right now, because for years, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.640 linear companies have been in the midst of this transformation 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.760 that Netflix really invented, and they seem to be doing 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.040 a pretty good job. Are there new questions now? That 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.720 was about the sustainability of streaming as a business after 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.520 Netflix's shocking quarter. Absolutely uh, And thank you so much 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:53.840 Tim and Carol for having me. I think this was 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:55.960 really a reality check, right This was a wake up 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.480 call for media um and for the full streaming model 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:00.760 as a whole. So I think there are a couple 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.280 of things here that we kind of really have to 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.120 look at UM. I don't think, you know, if you 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.239 kind of look at some of the other streaming entrance, 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.040 like you look at a Disney Plus or or even 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:13.239 a Discovery plus, HBO Max, those companies are all still 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.320 pretty nascent in terms of their streaming growth, and so 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.960 I don't necessarily think they'll face these headwinds right away. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:21.800 But I think what it does do is kind of 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.080 raised the question about what the total addressable market is. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.160 And I think that's where, uh, you know, we kind 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.360 of had a real investor reset last night when Netflix 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.160 told us that they were already very very highly penetrated. 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.520 So they talked about the two hundred and twenty million 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.160 subscribers that they have globally, but then they said they 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.240 also have another hundred million, you know, households who are 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.040 possibly like freeloading, you know, with with the whole password 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.719 sharing issue going on, which means that they've already attained 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.320 what they think is very very high penetration. So if 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.280 you look at just the US market, for instance, it 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.480 means they're all probably already at about an eight percent 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.800 penetration level. So I think the you know, when you 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.439 kind of then expand that what it does is um 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.920 almost reduced the total addressable market um for you know, 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.040 streaming subscribers. So we've been traditionally taught to think that 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:12.080 it's about a billion global Internet connected households. I think 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.600 that market is actually much much smaller now kind of 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.600 given Netflix's assessment of the situation, and so then that 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.400 reduces the potential for all of these other streaming companies 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.560 as well. Wait, so you don't think it's the potential 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.439 in terms of Internet connected market globally is a billion? 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.680 You think it's smaller than that. I think. I think 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.839 that's exactly what Netflix was kind of trying to tell 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.880 us last night when they said, you know, penetration is 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.680 already very very high in most of these markets, and 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:40.720 they kind of spoke around it, you know, by by 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.760 you know, talking about passwords sharing. But I think the 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.840 basic point being that it's not the one billion that 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.360 we're used to thinking. It's probably closer to maybe half 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.080 of that. So maybe why all of a sudden they're 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:57.000 realizing this, Yeah that no, that is that is the 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.040 you know, that is the question, I think, and I 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.800 think they were so this was the first time on 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.720 the earning skull that we really saw management kind of 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.280 lack that usual swagger and confidence. Right, they really looked, 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.640 you know, like deer in headlights, not really being able 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.920 to explain why you have this sudden you know, slow down, 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.560 and they looked just as blindsided as you know, the 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.880 rest of us. So it was really an interesting picture 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.560 for Tim. He's trying to get any Is this like 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.120 an ESPN moment? Remember when those ESPN numbers were lousy? 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:33.520 Email like, oh my god, ESPN is over right, exactly, 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.199 well medium down two point oh okay. So but ESPN 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:41.000 is doing okay, right, ESPN is doing okay. They're throwing 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.000 off about five billion dollars and even yes they are. 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.760 So is this can we compare that? Is it apples 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.040 to apples? So I think, Carol, I mean, this is 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.080 such a such a great question, and this really kind 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:54.200 of brings us to, you know, what is the future 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.680 for all of these media companies? So, yes, you know 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.679 Disney included ESPN's parents is in the midst of this 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:03.120 three make a pivot. We know that linear TV is 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.640 kind of you know, I don't want to say it's dead, 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.920 but it's definitely not thriving. You know, more and more 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:12.520 people are cutting the cord, but then the streaming model 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.839 is not necessarily thriving either, And so now they're kind 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.160 of hit on both ends. Right. They have their their 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:22.320 traditional cash cows no longer, you know, throwing off tons 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.000 and tons of cash. It's still pretty stable, but there's 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.480 no growth there. Uh, And you have them throwing all 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.640 this money into the streaming business, and probably the economics 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:33.920 there aren't going to be as great as they had 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.480 originally thought it would be. So you know, it's kind 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:41.840 of this double whammy right now. Alright, Kee Rocknegothen, thank 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.160 you so much for joining us technology and media analyst 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:49.920 a Bloomberg Intelligence. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.400 Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.840 Life imitating art, Art imitating life. I used to think 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.320 about that when I watched your Times Home, because it 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:04.680 really felt that way. Not sure thought of cartoons, and 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.840 I'm pretty sure that many of us thought about that 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.640 relationship and predictive insight when we were watching Pixars Wally 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:12.800 when that came out in two thousand eight. Writer and 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.520 director of Wally Alex Stanton addressed that in a quick 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.559 Take feature that was by our own Alex Webb. You know, 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.960 the funny thing we found out was like, where do 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.560 you think technology would go? And why? And what ended 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.920 up being our way to to guess that was what 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.920 would seduce you because we were watching it happened with 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.800 the phone, and we were watching happening with these electric scooters. 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.000 It's like fast food. You know it's bad for you, 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.440 but it's just deductively too tasty and you you cave. 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:44.840 Ain't that the truth? All right? That was writer and 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.440 director of Wally, Alex Stanton in a quick Take feature 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.240 by Alex Webb. Alex Webb is a correspondent for Bloomberg 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.000 Quick Take. He joins us on the phone from London, 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.079 also joining us as Joel Webber, editor at Bloomberg Business Week. 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.760 He joins us on the remote access line from Brooklyn, Joel, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:00.760 good to have you with us. The comment about the 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.680 phone really hits hard considering that Stanton was at Pixar, 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.280 where as Alex Webb rights uh Steve Jobs at the time, 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.040 spent about half of his week, so he saw an 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.959 early version of the iPhone. Hard to believe that Wally 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.199 came out all the way back in two thousand and eight, 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.040 because it feels like that world is playing out for 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:24.440 us right now. It's really eerie. Um. Actually, what's what's 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.280 transpired since then? You know? I remember watching Wally in 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.600 the theater again in the real before times, right, um, 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.559 And even back then it was like, oh wow, this 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:40.240 is like, you know, deeply satirical. But what makes story 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:45.080 ud remarkable is just how much of reality now looks 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.560 like uh what was depicted in the movie. So So, Alex, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:52.040 where did this idea come to you from? I mean, 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.760 I guess I've got to admit to my later Disney obsession, 0:13:55.800 --> 0:14:00.320 and I think that actually it was the The real 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.520 thing that drove for me was the space tourism and stuff. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:06.400 When last year when we saw particularly Blue Origin taking 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.800 tourists to space, and I thought, well, that's the final 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.040 piece in the sort of By and Large puzzle in 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.760 the film. There's sort of monopolistic retailer called By and Large, 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.960 which is basically Amazon, and they also run this space 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.560 tourism operation. And so that was the sort of final straw, 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.000 which when we think I've got to do something on this, 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.440 I gotta say it's terrifying. I was reading a story 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.800 by our Blue or Green Chief or Groston that talked 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.040 about how carbon emissions are kind of back to where 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.480 they were pre pandemic. Uh, it's terrifying to read this. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.040 I'm curious if you were smoking anything when you wrote this, 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:43.760 But I'm just kidding. He's a father of tuld No. 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.600 But you hit it so much. You know, we see 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.520 so much that we think, Okay, this can never happen, 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:51.080 but it is playing out. I mean, what do you 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.240 think people who read this should kind of sit up 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:59.560 and take notice about quite how near in the future was. 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.040 We tend to think about science fiction as being centuries 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.280 away and or or fifty years away. And and you know, 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.800 when we looked at the two one space, obviously obviously 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.200 we're twenty years beyond that, and not really much of 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:12.920 it has happened in the way it was envision back then. 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.320 This managed to look just around the corner. And the 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.720 other piece of it, though, that I found fascinating, is that, yes, 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:25.120 art sometimes imitates life unintentionally, but sometimes we you know, 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.680 it influences the way that we think about things, and 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.080 the the way that we decide to evolve is of 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.080 course informed by the science fiction of the past. So 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.120 you know, the metaverse is obviously a prime example of that. 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.400 But even in this, like on a very granular level, 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.120 the ship that the SpaceX rocket that launched two weeks ago, 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.360 three weeks ago now, um, taking tourists in International Space 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.000 Station is called the Axiom, and the ship in Wally 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.520 is called the Axiom. You know, so this is presumably 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:55.880 some sort of joke by by the founders of the 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.400 company that is taking these people to space. But but 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.960 you know, there is somethings that are unintentional and some 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.000 things where this actually shapes the way we think about 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:08.200 the future. Well, what what were some of the other 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:13.280 compelling coincidences or maybe not coincidences, the things that that 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.120 you know, you you wrote about in the story that 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.920 you know, the similarities between what's depicted in the show 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.240 and how how life looks. Now, what were some of 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.160 the most compelling ones. Well, the people in the show, 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.720 they're sort of a beasts living on this spaceship, and 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:30.640 of course the bast levels have continued to increase and 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.160 have gained pace in recent years. But also the people 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.040 on the on the ship, they communicate through video call 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.520 they you know, with people sometimes six ft away from them. 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.040 And I don't know about you guys, but I've certainly 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:43.080 been on calls in the morning calls, editorial calls where 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:44.640 I'm on the video call on the person of the 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.320 desk next to me is at the same video call, 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.320 and we're talking through through a zoom link rather than 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:54.320 talking in person. And finally, they eat smoothies, which that's 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.680 their meal replacement is a smoothie. And of course we've 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.640 seen Hull and Soil and all these other sort of 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.760 brands take off over the past decade. There's one further 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:04.880 thing actually that I didn't mention either in the piece 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.640 or the video form for time constraints, but the CEO 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:12.080 of by and large this Amazon proto Amazon is also 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.720 functionally the head of state. When you think about sort 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.040 of a businessman becoming head of state, something like that 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.480 seems to have happened recently. Yeah wow, speaking of yeah 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.200 imitates life. Hey, Alex, what is what is Andrew Stanton, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.400 the writer and director of Wally, what does he think 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.760 about all this? He said that he like, he said, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.080 he wished you hadn't been so right. You know, we spoke, 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.439 we I spoke about twenty minutes. We used some of 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.080 them in video and of course a quote a little bit, 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:41.040 but he uh said, you know, his words were, I 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.160 usually enjoy being right, but not on this one. And 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.760 um he sort of was chuckling, but with a sort 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:53.359 of rye um sense of essentially disappointment. Really, yeah, I 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.159 do wonder like the creative process of what they were thinking. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.040 And you know, obviously you know where they were getting 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.920 a lot of inspiration and from, um, but he has 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.440 to be probably less about what Alex was smoking and 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.439 when they were smoking. Yeah, I know, I've penned the Pixar. 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:09.639 It's a really creative place where you can kind of 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.080 do whatever you want. Um, but I they've just got 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.280 to be marveling it. Like for me, it's a little 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.840 freaky how much they got right. And I can't Joel 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:20.679 knows this, Tim knows this. I joke that we're all 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:22.480 going to be living in the metaverse because the climate 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.399 is going to be so bad. Funny but not funny, Alex. Yeah, 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:28.719 the thing that was actually quite interesting as well, if 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.200 you know, you mentioned in the in the lead here 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.640 that Steve Jobs was of course the see of Pixar, 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:38.200 and he said that understanding told me that they actually 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.320 saw the iPhone a year before it came out that 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.640 they were at a party with Steve Jobs and he 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:47.000 just couldn't resist showing off this sort of metal as 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.679 the chunk of glass and aluminium, and the analogy that 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.200 Irew Stanton he is talking about smoking things. He said 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:54.880 that he used to be a smoker, and that like 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.000 when he saw the kind of effect that even just 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.679 having the iPhone for a few minutes had, and like 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.919 the kind of obsessiveness that people were just sucked into it. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:05.080 And he said it was like when he was standing 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:06.960 at the bus stop, have nothing to do and smoke 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.119 a cigarette. Now he could see the people like be 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.560 getting on their phones and so that fed into this 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.800 this whole thread in the film, which I think you know, 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.000 it's ostensibly a film about two robots falling in love, 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.000 but it's really a kind of fable about over consumption 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.720 and tech addiction. And those are the two I think 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.800 you know, there are two huge themes in society at 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.840 the moment. And uh yeah, it is something that he 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.600 was informed by his proximity to Apple. I'm sorry, Alex, 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.439 did you say something I was on my phone? No, 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:38.439 I'm only kidding. I'm only It's just unbelievable. This is 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.199 a great, great read, a great story, Joel, did you 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.760 have something you wanted to say? Yeah, well, we'll see 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.080 you in space. You know that's the next shooter drap. 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:52.960 I guess it will be floating in space, right, Yeah, 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.880 Happy Wednesday everybody. Um. Alex Webb, thank you so much. 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.760 An incredible right and incredible read. Uh. He's correspondent Bloomberg 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:03.919 Quick Take. Check out his piece his feature piece too 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.560 on quick Tape. Joining us from London, Jill Webber. He's 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.320 the editor of Bloomberg business Week, and this is Bloomberg Radio. 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.040