1 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from how 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: stuff dot com. Ahi Their meta is welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren voc Obam. Now we're 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: going to do part two of our episodes about the 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: Pirate Day now in case you needed quick refresher previously 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: on tech stuff. So the part of the torrent tracking 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: site gets in Sweden, gets some big attention, gets really big, 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: not just in Scandinavia but outside Scandinavia. And then that's 9 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: when music industry and movie industry take notice and say 10 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: let's stop that thing, you know, and say let's stop 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: that thing you to the tune of thirteen million dollars 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: in damages right now, getting over into two thousand nine, 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: that's when things really start getting serious. It goes beyond 14 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: this are double a lawsuit and becomes a massive crackdown. 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: Swedish prosecutors take to court the three co founders of 16 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: the Pirate Bay. Actually let me let me let me 17 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: scroll on up so I can say their names properly, 18 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: so that the three co founders are Patersonda uh Friedrich 19 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: Nay and got Freed svat Holm Vari. So they take 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 1: those three to court and they also add a fourth 21 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: person as fellow who actually had provided funding for the 22 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: Pirate Bay, which often would solicit donations from users to 23 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: continue the site. Uh So that would be able to 24 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: continue operating because they were running a whole bunch of servers, 25 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: which is expensive, right, But the financial guy who was 26 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: named in the lawsuit was Carl Lunstrom. Lunstrom also would 27 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: end up getting a lot of it. There'd be a 28 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: lot of attention directed towards the Pirate Bay because of 29 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: Lunstrom's political leanings. Lundstrom had a history of supporting some 30 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: very far right um political part nationals Swedish nationalist parties 31 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: like keep Sweden Swedish type stuff, so very very firm 32 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: and harsh views for any non Swedish person moving into 33 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: the nation and um so anyway, that then also added 34 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: fuel to the fire for the the criticism towards the 35 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: Pirate Bay. Although the other founders of the Pirate Base said, 36 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: you know, uh, we were just looking at money, We're not. 37 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: Our philosophy has always been about file sharing, not about 38 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: you know, this this other type of policy. Um anyway, 39 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: they were all lumped in with this this lawsuit. So 40 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: in April two thousand nine, they were all found guilty 41 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: of assisting copyright infringement, and each was sentenced to a 42 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: year in jail, and each received finds totaling around three 43 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: point six million dollars depending upon whom you ask, because 44 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: it was of course not in dollars, was in coronin 45 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 1: I believe, and then you have to convert it and 46 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: adjust for inflation, so it gets tricky. But by the 47 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: end of two thousand nine, the bit torrent tracker at 48 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: the Pirate Bay went offline, and it made the Pirate 49 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: Bay just a Torrent indexing site. So this meant that 50 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: it was kind of like a just a giant database 51 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: of torrents. It wasn't um the tracker part, the bit 52 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: Torrent tracker part was no longer active, right, and they 53 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: decided to take it down because there was legal president 54 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: not only in this court case, that hosting a tracker 55 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: server for a torrent can can make you legally culpable 56 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: for helping people share illegal, illegally copied material um and 57 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: and shutting it down was made possible by um by 58 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: by by new tech that was actually really cool in 59 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: a you know, kind of using for illegal purposes sort 60 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: of way. UM It's called pure linking software and what 61 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: it does instead of using the tracker to querry. You know, 62 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: a tracker is a central server that the software that 63 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: you run on your computer queries to find out where 64 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: the little bits of every file that you want are located. 65 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: Right this peer linking software queries through the swarm, through UM, 66 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: through all of the computers that are that are hosting 67 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: that that are personally using gotcha. So it's taking that 68 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: that central server apart kind of all the equation when 69 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: it comes to actually locating these files, these bits of 70 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: files that you need for to make your full file 71 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: whatever it is. UM. Yeah, it kind of ends up 72 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: distributing the blame a little. Uh. And in June of 73 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: two thousand nine, story broke that a company called Global 74 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: Gaming Factory X was going to buy the Pirate Bay 75 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: for seven point eight billion dollars, with the goal of 76 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 1: actually turning it into a legitimate legal site where people 77 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: could trade files or purchase files. Um. The CEO at 78 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: Global Gaming Factory X at that time was Hans Pandaea, 79 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: But several weeks would go by and nothing seemed to develop. 80 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: It's kind of like the plan to buy Sea Land 81 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: from if you listen to our previous podcast, you'll hear 82 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: about these the wonderful story of the Pirate Bay trying 83 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: to buy trying to trying to buy a naval forming 84 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: former British naval platform and current sovereign state and turned 85 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: it into their own little pirate Bay country. Well, that 86 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: fell through, and this deal also seemed to kind of 87 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: just go nowhere. It just you know, it was announced 88 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: that it was a possibility, and then nothing seemed to happen. 89 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: So in February it became clear more at least a 90 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: little more clear why it never that deal never really 91 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: went anywhere because Global Gaming Factory collapsed, the company company 92 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: went under. Pandaea had actually had his own personal property 93 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: in the form of a motorcycle and a car, seized 94 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: by the government um due to the fact that he 95 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: was unable to make good on financial obligations of the company. 96 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: So the deal to buy Pirate Bay fell through, not 97 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: a big surprise there. In May, a German court injunction 98 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: took down the Pirate Bay temporarily, so like temporarily being 99 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: just a matter of like a day, it was. It 100 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: was back and operational in no time at all, and 101 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: at that time you also had internet service providers, arguing 102 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: that they had no control over the content of traffic 103 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: over their networks. So in other words, they said, we're 104 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: providing the pipes, but we don't provide Yeah, which is 105 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: the very people argument to on the pirate base exactly. 106 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: You know, they're like, hey, we give people the opportunity 107 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: to share files, but we're not telling them what to share, 108 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: and we're not telling them don't share anything. The only 109 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: thing we're telling them is make sure your label matches 110 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: whatever the file is. That's the only thing that we 111 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: care about. So, uh, you know, I sp s were 112 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: kind of giving the same argument, saying they shouldn't be 113 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:05,239 Speaker 1: held responsible for the content. Yeah. So when the Pirate 114 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: Bay came back after the German court injunction, it was 115 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: hosted by the Swedish Pirate Party. Now this is different 116 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: than Pirot Biron, which we talked about before. That was 117 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: the Piracy Bureau. The Swedish Pirate Party was sort of 118 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: kind of a a similar political organization in Sweden, but 119 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: not the same people. Now, that was the first political 120 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: party that was actually called the Pirate Party, and that 121 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: that itself, the Swedish Pirate Party was founded back in 122 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: two thousand six. Central platform of the Pirate Party was 123 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: to give more power to individuals as opposed to governments 124 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: and companies, to use the Internet, to communicate freely and 125 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: share with one another. So so the Swedish Pirate Party 126 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: was the first political party actually called the pirate Party. 127 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: Now there are quite a few of them, but the 128 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: Swedish Pirate Party is the original one. It was founded 129 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: back in two thousand six, and the central platform for 130 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: the party was to give more power to the individual 131 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: as opposed to governments and corporations, to use the Internet, 132 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: to communicate freely and to share with one another. So uh. 133 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: It shares a lot of the same philosophy as the 134 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: Libertarian Party might in the United States, Um, but was 135 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: very specifically focused on Internet communication. Not you know that 136 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: that was like the primary focus at least as far 137 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: as the Pirate of it was concerned, certainly. Uh was 138 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: also when PAN disbanded, Yeah, they said that they did 139 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: everything they planned on doing, and they were done doing 140 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: the thing they planned, which you know, basically said in Swedish, 141 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, uh, and probably much more eloquently than the 142 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: way I put it. They said that they met their 143 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: goals and the organization was always meant to be temporary. 144 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: It was never meant to be, you know, to last indefinitely. Also, 145 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: one of the original um co founders of the organization 146 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 1: had passed away that year, eb Kopimi Botani. He had 147 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: passed away. And uh, that that really I think what 148 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: led to the group dissolving. You know. It's I've seen 149 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: this happen with other organizations where someone even even if 150 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: the person is not technically the leader of the organization, 151 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: often they could be the glue that holds everything together, 152 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: and when they depart or they pass away, then the 153 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: organization really just can't hold itself as a cohesive unit anymore. 154 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: And in November of the Swedish appeals court shortens the 155 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: prison sentence of Peter Sunda from one year to eight months, 156 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: Friedrich ni Nai got from one year to ten months uh, 157 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: and financier Carl Lundstrom went from one year to four months. 158 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: Essentially had already served it out by then, and Gottfried 159 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: svart Holm Vari received a reduced sentence but missed the 160 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: appeals trial due to an illness. But while there their 161 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: their prison sentences were reduced. The w Yeah. Uh, and 162 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: again it's this is complicated because you have to you know, 163 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: convert corona into dollars and inflation and all that. But 164 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: essentially it went from about three point six million to 165 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: about six point five million dollars in damages and the UH, 166 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: the appeals court essentially what they did was they listened 167 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: to the organization's claims about how much money they lost 168 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: due to piracy and just accepted it and well, then 169 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: that's how much they owe you. Whereas a lot of 170 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: again we said it before in our previous podcast, UH, 171 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: most reports that I've seen, like the actual reports that 172 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: really go into looking at how much money is lost 173 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: due to piracy, say that there's no way to actually 174 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: put a dollar amount on that because you can't you 175 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: can't tell who would have purchased the material legitimately if 176 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: there were no way of pirating it. So if you 177 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: if you were to remove piracy, just magically snap your 178 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: fingers and piracy is now impossible. There's no way to 179 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: pirate stuff you can't eat. Can't guarantee that six point 180 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: five million dollars of right, Yeah, that that that everyone 181 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: would Now some of them undoubtedly would have purchased it, 182 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: some of them would not. So that means that because 183 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: of this uncertainty, you can't actually say, oh, that is 184 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: worth x amount of dollars and I have the proof 185 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: right here and that, you know, because you can't prove 186 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: it um however, and the courts this is something that 187 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: it all depends upon the judge and jury. I mean 188 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: they you know, they're the ones who decide whether or 189 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: not the argument holds water, and in this case, they said, 190 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: you are going to pay up big time. Now. For 191 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: the part of the co founders of the Pirate Bay, 192 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: their general response to the findes was similar to something 193 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: I did in the first episode. I'm not going to 194 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: do again because Lauren and Noel will kill me. But 195 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: essentially they said, ha ha, we won't pay. Yeah. Yeah, 196 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: they're they were like, that's cute. Yeah, good luck getting 197 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: your cash, suckers. Uh. Yeah. The their attitude has not 198 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: changed at all from the point when they founded the 199 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: site to current day where they still owe money. But 200 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: they said, you know, none of them has paid any 201 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, that's essentially the response of some of 202 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: them have served out their court their court mandated terms. 203 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: But yeah yeah, And we'll get into kind of you know, 204 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: catching up with the founders at the end of this episode. 205 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: So for right now, I know this is going really quickly. Guys, 206 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: you're thinking, what show am I listening to? Because this 207 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: is going really fast. But it's because you know, we're 208 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: wrapping up on the Pirate Bay before we get into 209 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: the second half and really talk about what's going on, 210 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: you know, over the last couple of years. Let's take 211 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 1: a quick moment to thank our sponsored Okay, and now 212 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: we're back, so let's talk about, you know, more recent 213 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,599 Speaker 1: occurrences with the Pirate Bay. What's been going on? Um, 214 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: Like what happened in two thousand twelve, they actually decided 215 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: for some of their most popular content, and then later 216 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: on they applied that to everything, to us stop offering 217 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: torrent files? What's up with that? So? So okay, so 218 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: so January was when they promised that they were going 219 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: to remove all torrent files from their site in favor 220 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: of of what's called magnet links. And um, now, if 221 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: you remember from a previous episode on torrents um dot, 222 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: torrent files run on your computer and calculate what bits 223 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: of files you'll need to complete the media file that 224 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: you want. Yeah, it's it's essentially meta data. It's information 225 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: about the file that you actually want. So at torrent 226 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: file does not like if you were wanted to torrent 227 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: Britney Spears latest album because that that La La song 228 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: or whatever she does is just awesome and you want it. 229 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: By the way, I actually do like that song because 230 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: it sounds like J pop beside the point. So let's 231 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: say that you want that and you can't stand the 232 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: thought of paying for it. The torrent file that you 233 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: get for that doesn't actually have any of the la 234 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: las There's none of that. It just sends a hash 235 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: of requests to a server, right which then judge you. 236 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: But then you give you the files that you have. Um. Now, 237 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: now a magnet link contains all of that calculation data 238 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: in the link itself, so the processing happens on server 239 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 1: instead of on your computer. Um. You do still need 240 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: to create a dot torrent for for for a new 241 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: piece of media that you are uploading to um to 242 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: the ent our webs but um but but basically it 243 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: you know, saved a lot of resources, made the pirate 244 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: bay site much smaller, like to the point that it 245 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: can be carried on a thumb drive. Right, So by 246 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: making it much smaller that that increased the likelihood that 247 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: they would be able to return the Pirate Bay to 248 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: full working order should something else happen to it, like 249 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: a government shuts down more servers. So this was another 250 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: attempt not only to just make the site run more smoothly, 251 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: but to ensure that there would be other ways of 252 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: preserving the site should something happen to it. And the 253 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: message being sent out to content creators is this isn't 254 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: going away. This is part of reality. Now, this is 255 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: this is part of the landscape. You can try and 256 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: take it down, but every time you try and take 257 00:14:58,200 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: it down, it's just going to come up again. The 258 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: most gonna do is have us offline for maybe a 259 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: couple of days, you know, a week on the outside, 260 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: but we will eventually find you can't stop us. Um. Yeah, 261 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: which gets pretty rough. Meanwhile, February, Sweden Supreme Court declined 262 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: to hear an appeal from the founders. Yeah, which was 263 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: a big deal, right. This was this was essentially saying 264 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: that the court finding of the their guilt was going 265 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: to stand and that's pretty much and then there's there's 266 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: nowhere else to go at that point, so the founders 267 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: are stuck with the the prison sentences and the fines, 268 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: which they still said they would not pay. Right. At 269 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: that point, um, the trials were officially over and um 270 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: they were the Pirate Bay was was afraid that, um 271 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: they were still currently at that time on United States 272 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: dot org yeah domains right. Yeah, they they their domain 273 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: name was the Pirate Bay dot org, right, which was 274 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: that made them a little nervous. Well, they were afraid 275 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: that since that trial was over, that the US was 276 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: going to um seize that domain, right, so they decided 277 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: to avoid future litigation, and so so they redirected to 278 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: a dot e domain dot dot domain. They did that. 279 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: They do that a lot. We're really going to be 280 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: talking about some of the whack a mole type of approach. Yeah, 281 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: and again, in an attempt to really find a home 282 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: that will one house them and and to not bow 283 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: to pressure from companies and organizations and governments, we started 284 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: to do a lot of a lot of very admirably 285 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: clever things, um and admirable you know, you know, kind 286 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: of in that scoundrel way. It's really it's fascinating. They 287 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: definitely have dedication, will say. That was also when the 288 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: United Kingdom High Courts said that all I s p 289 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: s in the United Kingdom were to block access to 290 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: the pirate bay. Now that would um, that would matter 291 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: if the and it didn't work the way it does, 292 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: and that you couldn't find proxy servers that would allow 293 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: you to get around UH international bands like that, because 294 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: that's the thing is that, you know, using something like 295 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: a proxy server, you could log into a proxy server 296 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: which isn't blocked by the the I s p s 297 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: and then as the proxy server end up accessing the 298 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: stuff that you wanted to access in the first place. 299 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: And because the traffic is making a hop there, it 300 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: might mean that the whole process takes longer than it 301 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: normally would. But yeah, anyone who is really determined to 302 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: use these services usually is also willing to take the 303 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: extra steps it would require to enough to know about 304 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: them and capable of these Although we'll talk more about 305 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: some interesting developments in just piracy in general UM that 306 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: have happened since uh since this So this was also 307 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: when UM they were starting to talk about changing not 308 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: only the fact about the magnet links, but also kind 309 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: of abandoning the server approach entirely. Right, So okay, So 310 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: so in October a broken power distribution unit led to 311 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: almost forty eight hours of downtime and that was more 312 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: downtime that they had had since that raid in two 313 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: thousand six, the police raid that that literally took their 314 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: servers UM, which lasted for three days. Which lasted for 315 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: three days, right UM. And this this happened to coincide 316 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: with the police raid on a former hosting company in Sweden. 317 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: So with this coincidental pair of events, you have the 318 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: power going out, which leads to the site going down, 319 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: and you have this raid. It led a lot of 320 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: people to jump to the conclusion that the police had 321 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: taken down the Pirate Bay again, which really, according to 322 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: what we've read, is not the case. It's just one 323 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: of those crazy coincidence. It was just a thing that 324 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: happened to happen at the same time. But but after that, 325 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: they decided that this entire physical media thing was kind 326 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: of for the birds, and UM as of October se 327 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: stided to move most of their services to the cloud. 328 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: UM as of January they were running on seventeen virtual machines. 329 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: And what what this means is that, you know, instead 330 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: of having UM physical servers, they've got virtual servers. The 331 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: only physical equipment that UM that the Pirate Bay still 332 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: maintains is UM a load balancer, which is a RAM 333 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: based server through which all of the communication with users goes, 334 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: and then some transit routers and so so this this 335 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: keeps both the cloud providers and the site's users private. 336 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: The cloud providers that you know, the hosters don't know 337 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: what they're hosting, and um and all of these things 338 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: are in different countries. Plausible deniability. That's what it boils 339 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: down to. Yeah, it's actually funny. There's a there's a 340 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: great I have to read this because and I did 341 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: it before, and I'm going to go even more dramatic 342 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: in the actual tech stuff reading. Winston Brahma spoke for 343 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: the Pirate Bay. This was Winston Brahma's kind of explanation. 344 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: If there is data, there is the Pirate Bay. Our 345 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: data flows around in thousands of clouds and deeply encrypted forms, 346 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: ready to be used when necessary. Earth Bound nodes that 347 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: transform the data are as deeply encrypted and reboot into 348 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: a deadlock if not used for eight hours. All attempts 349 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: to attack the Pirate Bay from now on is an 350 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: attack on everything and nothing. The site that you're at 351 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: will still be here for as long as we wanted to, 352 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: only in a higher form of being a reality to us, 353 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: a ghost to those who wish to harm us. Basically, Uh, 354 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: it's you know, Neo and the matrix. I think that 355 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: is what that is. It's we'll take the take the 356 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: blue pill. Yeah, so, um, I mean melodrama and the 357 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: Pirate Bay are two things that have gone hand in 358 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: hand more than once. Yes, but but now, I mean, 359 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's true that that if the police 360 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: decided to to raid them, they would find a router 361 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 1: or or or of a load balancer. And if they 362 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: did take those, all you can get is encrypted disk images, 363 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: and if the virtual servers have been out of communication 364 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: with the load balancer for more than eight hours, they 365 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: shut down and require encryption passwords upon rebooting. Right, So yeah, 366 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: if you take something, it's it's useless to you. And 367 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: also it's only a matter and it's only a matter 368 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: of time before someone has activated it again from some 369 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: other location. Yes. So again, it's another one of those 370 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: messages saying you know, um, we understand you're gonna take 371 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: stuff down. We're telling you it won't matter. So if 372 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: you want to keep spending the time and resources it 373 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: takes to take stuff down, go right ahead. But it 374 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: doesn't matter, but we don't care. Yeah, um, so move 375 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: that moves us up to which, for those of you 376 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: who are listening shortly after we recorded that is this year. 377 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: If you're listening to this episode from some time in 378 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: the future, send me a jet pack. So the Swedish 379 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: Pirate Party stops being the host of the Pirate Bay. 380 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: You know, they had taken over back after the the 381 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: Pirate Bay had been taken down. They were the ones 382 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: who were able to host it and bring it back up. Well, 383 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: they took it. They decided to to kind of in 384 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: that relationship after they received threats from the Rights Alliance, 385 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: which is an anti piracy organization in Sweden. At that point, 386 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: the hosting transferred to the Norwegian Pirate Party and the 387 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: Spanish Pirate Party, both of which were organizations that the 388 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: Pirate Bay kind of identified as being less likely to 389 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: bow to uh two pressures from other organizations. Also, the 390 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 1: governments in Norway and Spain were less. It wasn't that 391 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: they don't care about piracy, that's just not what they 392 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: focus on. So they felt that there was much of 393 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: a legal precedent in those places, and well there's just 394 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: gonna be less pressure because that wasn't it wasn't a 395 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: priority in those in those countries. Um, they switched from 396 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: Swedish servers to servers in Greenland because again they were 397 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: just trying to vent this you know, downtime that would 398 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: happen if the Swedish servers were seized. But within two 399 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: days of moving to Greenland, the Pirate Bay lost both 400 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: of its dot g L domain names, so so Greenland 401 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: said nothing. Yeah, So then the site moved to Icelandic 402 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: servers for a week, and then the new threats were 403 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: showing up to bring down the site in Iceland, so 404 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: that forced the site to relocate again, this time to 405 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: the Caribbean. So now we have Pirates of the cariber Yoho, yoho, 406 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: a pirate's life for me. It can be found on 407 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: multiple top level domains, meaning that you know, you can 408 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: use different top level domains. The top level domains are 409 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: things like the dot SC dot g L. You know. Uh, 410 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: it can be found on multiple ones, which means that 411 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: if one goes down, you still have other ones you 412 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: can try and get to. And um, there are a 413 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: lot of sites that even just keep a running tab 414 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: on which ones are currently working versus down, so you 415 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: can even check those um, so it pretty much ensures 416 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: that the site will continue even if one or more 417 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: servers are seized. Is also when there was a documentary 418 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: that was aired or or screened, I guess I should 419 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: say I do find the title of the documentary to 420 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: be absolutely irritating, but it's a pet peeve of mine also, 421 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: so it's it's a T P B A f K 422 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: colon the Pirate Bay away from keyboard, so it's the acronym, 423 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: and then the acronym is broken out, which means that 424 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: you didn't need the acronym there. You could have just 425 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: had the Pirate Bay away from keyboard if they had 426 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: put if they had put the translation um in parentheses, 427 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: I would have no problem with it. But I think 428 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: that really they needed a copy of I just I 429 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: just feel like it. If don't use an acronym, if 430 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to spell it out anyway, don't do it. 431 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: There's no point why do it. But I hate acronyms anyway. Anyway, 432 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: this documentary was about Don't Get Me starring f y I. 433 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: I will just lose it. I'm sorry. The documentary was 434 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 1: about some of the founding members of the Pirate Bay. 435 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: It came out in early and it really profiled the 436 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: three founders essentially during that trial that they were in 437 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: in Sweden, so the trial back in two thousand nine 438 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: where they were ultimately pronounced guilty of assisting and copyright 439 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: UH infringement. So um, it's from why I understand an 440 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: interesting UH documentary. Although I have not I have full disclosure, 441 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,719 Speaker 1: I have not seen. Also, I don't know that. I mean, 442 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: I assume there's probably a version out there that has 443 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: subtitles because I don't speak Swedish, so I certainly wouldn't 444 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: be able to follow it. Uh. If I were to 445 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: watch it without subtitles, I would just be lost the 446 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: entire time. But I do understand that there's a lot 447 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: of like airing of dirty laundry or at least, you know, 448 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: airing of people's foibles between the Founders, who who generally 449 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: agree on a particular part of their philosophy, but outside 450 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: of that, they're very different people. Yeah, it sounds it 451 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: sounds very much like like outside of their right political interests, 452 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: they don't necessarily get along. They're not necessarily friends. Yeah, 453 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: all the time, or they are friends, but they're just like, oh, 454 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: you know, Godfried is always just drunk and racist. Yeah, 455 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: that's that's pretty much what they say about Godfrey, about 456 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: how Godfried seems occasionally when he when he's had a 457 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: few drinks in him, according to what I've read, seems 458 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: to be more along Lundstrom's political views. You know. But 459 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,959 Speaker 1: the other guys say, no, that's just him being drunk. 460 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: That's he's actually a good guy. It's just, you know, 461 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: he gets drunk and then he decides he wants to 462 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: grant granted or create an argument where there wasn't an 463 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: argument before. They he just kind of gets a little 464 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, in your face and aggressive. But that's that's 465 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: only because he's been drinking. Otherwise he's a good guy. 466 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: That's essentially the kind of reference I get. UM also 467 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: when they added links to bitcoin and light coin so 468 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: that people could UH could contribute to the site using 469 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: those rather than something like you know, PayPal, which is 470 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: something that tracks back to you, or or something that 471 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: could be shut down like There are plenty of stories 472 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: about UH financial institutions cutting off any sort of support 473 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: for the Pirate Bay and related services like the Pirate 474 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: Bay because they get pressure from the government saying, hey, 475 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: we don't want any money from the us going to 476 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: fund this site because it's it's supporting intellectual property theft. 477 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: So uh, you know, you would get PayPal or credit 478 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: card companies saying that they would no longer support uh, 479 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: financial transactions to sites like that. Bitcoin and lightcoad totally 480 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: gets around that. So not only does it protect identities, 481 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: but it also creates an open flow of income. Right. 482 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: While researching this episode, I found a lot of um, 483 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: you know, I was hanging out a bunch on sites 484 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,199 Speaker 1: that talk about stuff about torrent, ng and and and 485 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: most of the consensus seem to be that you should 486 00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: not trust a torrent site that does not take um bitcoin. Yeah. 487 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: The interesting thing for me is that bitcoin itself is 488 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: such an unstable currency. Unstable in the mean in the 489 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: sense that the value value fluctuates wildly. Yeah, much more 490 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: than than currencies that are part of a stable economy. Right. 491 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that bitcoin like bitcoin, may eventually 492 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: settle down and become a perfectly viable, unstable form of currency, 493 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: but right now you'll see the value fluctuates so wildly 494 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: that you could if you were to look at your 495 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: amount of bitcoins and compare it to dollars one day, 496 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: you might be rich and the next day you might 497 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: not be able to buy a big Mac. So well, 498 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: it's I think that the point of it is is 499 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: a political one and that UM that the idea behind bitcoin, 500 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: which is kind of shaking your fist at the man 501 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: very banks very much aligns with UM, with their with 502 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: their philosophy and copyright. So where are they now? Yeah? 503 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: So Lunstrom did in fact serve those four months that 504 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: he was supposed to in Sweet under house arrest and 505 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: has since returned to live in Switzerland. Okay. Gottfried's vatam 506 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: Vari was indicted in April on hacking charges that were 507 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: unrelated to the Pirate Bay. He's actually accused of hacking 508 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: into the Nordia Bank to withdraw money, and several Swedish 509 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: companies and the government's federal taxing agency databases as well. Um. 510 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,719 Speaker 1: He was also alleged to have stolen information including personal 511 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: data and uh according to Wired in Ours Technica, he 512 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: also has issues with drug abuse. This was after Gottfried 513 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: and Frederick had Um had bugged out to Cambodia, to 514 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: Laos to uh To to hang out in order to 515 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: avoid being arrested under these charges that were that were 516 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: levied against them, and Gottfried had been deported after breaking 517 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: his visa agreement, getting himself arrested somehow I did not 518 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: read how um, but but had been Yeah, have been 519 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: departed back to Sweden and that and that is upon 520 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: which he um. I don't think uh faced faced any 521 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: any particular police man hunt or anything like that until 522 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: he was brought up on these separate drug and hacking charges. 523 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: And just to clarify, there was just one word that 524 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: was dropped there, Cambodia and then Laos. Oh we do 525 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: know they are two different countries. We do. We know 526 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,239 Speaker 1: that because I heard the pause, but I didn't hear 527 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: the end in but yes, that is exactly what happened. 528 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: So um. Yeah, they're actually more hacking charges on got 529 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: free that are waiting for him in Denmark. So um 530 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 1: and he's and he actually is. He has jail sentence 531 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: went from from less than one year to two additional years, 532 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: although again this is a different crime. This was the 533 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: hacking crime. And he's the first, person, according to the 534 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, first person in Sweden to be sent 535 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: to jail on hacking charges. So you founder of the pirate, 536 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: They first hacker to go to jail for hacking in Sweden. 537 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: I guess that's a legacy. Yes, Uh Frederick. Meanwhile, is 538 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: Um still hanging out? Yeah? He has a he has 539 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: a family there. Yes, he has a wife and child. 540 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: Um the statue of limitations on his prison sentences five years, 541 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: and he said that he's willing to wait. Yeah, actually 542 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: less politely than I just said that, right. He said 543 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: it in such a way that we cannot even repeat 544 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: it on our podcast. Or we could, but I don't 545 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: know that either of us are willing to do that. 546 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: But anyway, he essentially said that if he just waited 547 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: out the statue of limitations on the the sentence, that 548 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, he could come back and there's nothing anyone 549 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: could do because he had you know, the statue of 550 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: limitations is over. There's no legal basis to go after 551 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: him anymore. So he says, yeah, I can just wait 552 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: that out. I don't have a problem with that, And uh, 553 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: they can't because of Swedish law and because of the 554 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: specific crime he was accused of. There's no basis for 555 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: an inner national warrant of arrest, so they can't come 556 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: after him in Laus either, So he just can wait. Uh. 557 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: And then there's Peter Sunda who is currently developing a 558 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: smartphone app called Himils. It's h e mL dot i s, 559 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,239 Speaker 1: which is from the Swedish word and by the way, 560 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure I completely butchered that because I didn't look 561 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: up how this one was said, and I apologize, but 562 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,959 Speaker 1: it could have entire consonants that we didn't didn't even read. Yeah, 563 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: but anyway, it's from the Swedish word for secrecy and uh. 564 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: It's an app that is meant to allow encrypted communication 565 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: between people to keep messages safe from other parties, namely 566 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: organizations like the n s A, which, if you listen 567 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: to our Prism episodes, you've heard all about the n 568 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: s A and the n s a's habit of spying 569 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: on communications, particularly between foreign governments and foreign agents. Now 570 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: keep in mind paid or Sunday Sunda rather is from Sweden, 571 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: so he falls under that category of you know, someone 572 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: at least he falls under the category of foreign if 573 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: not foreign agent, uh from the United States perspective, and 574 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: so you know, obviously it makes sense to for him 575 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: to create some sort of encrypted messaging service that would 576 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: allow people to have secure communications between one another without 577 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: fear of it being read by the n s A. 578 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: Now that all that being said, to keep in mind, 579 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: the n s A is the organization in the United 580 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: States that specifically focuses on cryptography and decryption. So just 581 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: encrypting it does not necessarily I mean that, it doesn't 582 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: mean it will be unreadable forever. It may, however, practically 583 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: mean that if you use an encryption that's long enough, 584 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: that's that's complicated enough that the their statue of limitations 585 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: runs out, or yeah, or that's just so hard that 586 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: the return on investment is so low that they want 587 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: are like, well, there's got to be a better way 588 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: of getting this data, because by the time we end 589 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: up figuring out what's being said, it's no longer going 590 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: to be relevant to anything. Yeah. So uh. He ended 591 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: up raising about a hundred fifty dollars from more than 592 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: ten thousand backers within a day and a half of 593 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: launching his his campaign to create this app. And and 594 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 1: from what I can tell, I mean because he's still 595 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: you know, he has not served any of his prison sentence. 596 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: He has not um, he's not paid any of those 597 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: fines that were levied against them, and basically he doesn't 598 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: care as far as I can tell he's just running 599 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,280 Speaker 1: around the world, uh, you know, giving presentations talking about 600 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: important stuff, raising funds and yeah, and that's yeah, it's 601 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: like the Pirate Bay UH court case is just over. 602 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: It's just done something that was something he was required 603 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: to go to the court and sit through it. Yeah, 604 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: like he got a time out. So yeah, he's actually 605 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: seeking clemency from the Swedish government for the fines um. 606 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: And you know, he's really focusing on this encryption messaging service, which, 607 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: by the way, it would actually send UH messages in bulk. 608 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: It would encrypt the messages and then send it in 609 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: bulk across borders to be decrypted at another server and 610 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: then in bulk and then delivered. So in other words, 611 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: the reason why you would put these in bulk is 612 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: because when you have all the messages mixed together and encrypted, 613 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: it makes it even more difficult to sort it out 614 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: and figure out who sent what. So that could be 615 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: the key to keeping the n s A from decrypting 616 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 1: these messages is that it's not just that you're decrypting 617 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: a single message like I wouldn't be sending It wouldn't 618 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: be one line of message that I would send to Lauren, 619 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: it would be my message grouped with everyone else's messages 620 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: if they were to be intercepted. Um. So really, I 621 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: mean the focus there, I guess would be on trying 622 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: to find a way of intercepting messages after they reached 623 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: the decryption so ERB and we're sent out, But that 624 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: would be pretty difficult to So it's an interesting approach 625 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: and we'll see how that turns out. There was another 626 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: person that you had found, someone who had been involved 627 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: in the Pirate Bay toward the last few months, Tobias 628 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: Tobias Anderson, right. Um, he launched the Promo Bay, which 629 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 1: used the front page of the Pirate Bay to allow 630 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: independent artists to promote their work. And um uh, I 631 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: think it's a fascinating project because you know, again, it's 632 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: it's encouraging independent artists to um to allow the free 633 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,919 Speaker 1: sharing of their work under the assumption that people will 634 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: pay them for it once they have heard it for free, gotcha. Yeah. 635 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,720 Speaker 1: And and we've seen cases of that. We've seen people 636 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 1: who have offered up music for free and then they've 637 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: had like, if you like this, here's where you can 638 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: pay for it, or pay me what you think it's worth. Uh. 639 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: Jonathan Colton has done that quite a bit. I mean, 640 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: Amanda Palmer and uh the Dresden Dolls. Uh. So it 641 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 1: tends to be these groups that already have a pretty 642 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: firm grasp on Internet culture and already have a pretty 643 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: pretty big you know, for about for lack of a 644 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: better word, cult following online and um, you know, and 645 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: unofficial studies you know. Uh, Amanda Palmer's husband, Neil Gaiman 646 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: released a free version of The American Gods and and 647 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: his publisher found that legal sales went up. So so 648 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: there does seem to be at least some support for that, 649 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: although you know clearly you're going to really to really 650 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: establish it would require a pretty tough study because you know, 651 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: there are a lot of variables, right There's there's just 652 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: increased awareness of the existence of something, and someone might 653 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: not know that there is a free way of getting 654 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,280 Speaker 1: it versus buying it. Like, there's a lot of different 655 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 1: factors that you have to account for. But in general, 656 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 1: it does seem like if you take this approach, people 657 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: tend to wart you. Right. Also, I would like to 658 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: note that Neil Gaiman is is not only Amanda Palmer's husband, 659 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: he has his own qualities and look it described before 660 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: he married Amanda Palm. I meant to, I meant to 661 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: merely associate the fact that they are culturally um entangled. 662 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: Also the Sandman funny books, right, yeah, those, I've read 663 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: about that in the funny papers. Um uh. Well. Getting 664 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: back to Tobias Anderson, I like you read out his 665 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: full statement, but I just like the bit about the 666 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: Pirate Bay in its current form must end. Yeah, so 667 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: he he had this really, He announced his resignation from 668 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: it in July, basically saying that the Pirate Band I'll 669 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: just read the quote, the Pirate Ban its current form 670 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: must end. It is not built and meant for what 671 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: is coming the future. Copy fights will need something better, faster, safer, 672 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: something that does not depend on a few persons will 673 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: to sacrifice themselves. The world needs something that is impossible 674 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: to take down, no matter what raids, laws and scare 675 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: tactics they will throw at you. See. I like that 676 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: statement only because when it starts off, it sounds like 677 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: he has become disenchanted with what the Pirate Bay is doing. 678 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: And then he says, no, they're not doing enough, and like, 679 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 1: oh man, I was I was ready to ride this 680 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: ride and now I don't feel right. UM. So here's 681 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: here's another little bit of information I thought was interesting. 682 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: So UH, a company called IPSOS m M I did 683 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,240 Speaker 1: a survey in Norway. This just covers UH piracy in 684 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: in Norway and and and consumer behavior in Norway. But 685 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,399 Speaker 1: that study found that piracy of music had dropped eighty 686 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: two point five percent over four years and TV piracy 687 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: dropped by more than half in that same amount of time. 688 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: And they the survey drew the conclusion that at least 689 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: part of the reason for this was because there were 690 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: a lot more outlets where you could legally get this 691 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: content and it was easier to find, the access was 692 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: simple and UH and usually also that it was priced 693 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: in such a way that it made sense to the consumer. 694 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: So I would argue that there are a lot of 695 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: services that are really cutting down like taking the bite 696 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: out of piracy, stuff like UM services that allow same 697 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: day UH debut on the online as stuff that appears 698 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: in movie theaters, which, by the way, movie theater owners hate. 699 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know that because that's a tough industry 700 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: to just running a movie theater and to have the 701 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: content come out online at the same time as it 702 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,399 Speaker 1: comes on the theater is that's a tough thing. There's 703 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: there's different groups of people who want to go to 704 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: a theater and who want to download something online to 705 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: see to me and introverts versus extroverts thing. And also 706 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I feel like I feel like 707 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: if it's something like Pacific rim like I would want 708 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: to see and it's something that's a spectacle film, you 709 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: definitely want to see it on a big screen well. 710 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: And also like streaming services things like Spotify, Pandora, which 711 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 1: allows you to listen to music for free. You know, 712 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: you're getting ads, so it's ads supported, but you're also 713 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: listening to, uh, you know, to stuff that that really 714 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: interests you. You don't have to end up downloading something 715 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 1: that may or may not have malware involved. You can 716 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: listen to it safely and legally. And and just and 717 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 1: just the price and available availability of music on on 718 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: Amazon and iTunes and Google and Google everything. And then 719 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: you've got you know, television and movies that are available 720 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 1: on things like Amazon Prime, Hulu plus, Netflix, all of 721 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: these different services that are uh that are growing around 722 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 1: the world. I mean in the United States we've got 723 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: access to a lot of them, but they're starting to 724 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,399 Speaker 1: appear in other countries as well, and that I think 725 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: are an industry response to to piracy. They're saying, well, 726 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's I feel like piracy is mostly mostly 727 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 1: people saying why won't you let me give you my money? Right? 728 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: There are certain I think for a certain population, particularly 729 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: the younger population of pirates, it's more like I want 730 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 1: access to stuff and I don't have any way of 731 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 1: getting it other than piracy, which may be either access 732 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: or it may be financially motivated. There is and and 733 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,280 Speaker 1: there's also a certain punk rock segment of the community 734 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,800 Speaker 1: that is always going to be like a copyright is dumb, 735 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: why does it exist? Or information should be free? Right, 736 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 1: There's gonna be a segment of the population that isn't 737 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: even thinking along those lines and just says, this thing 738 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: exists and therefore I want it and I should have it, 739 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,360 Speaker 1: and I'm entitled. But but I think that's the minority. 740 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: I think that most people, you know, if you were 741 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: to give them a legal, safe way, for example, getting 742 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones without having to subscribe to HBO and 743 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: a cable package, then that might mean that more people 744 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: would be willing to support that content. Now, you know, 745 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: This is a complicated issue because there are a lot 746 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: of different parties involved. It's not just the content creators, 747 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: it's the companies that provide the platform for these things, 748 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: and and long histories of of you know, in the 749 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: case of Game of Thrones, for example, will company agreements 750 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: with service providers. Sure, yeah, this gets really complicated. It's 751 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: not like someone just has the freedom to say, oh, 752 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: that totally makes sense, will make way more money if 753 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,399 Speaker 1: we don't, like George R. Martin is going like, no, 754 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: keep it all on broadcast television. It's it's an obligate, 755 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: it's an obligation thing. Yeah, but there wasn't nearly enough 756 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,880 Speaker 1: beard in that voice for George RR. Martin quote. But yeah, 757 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: so so, I mean, it's like we said, it's very complicated. 758 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: But it does seem that the more legitimate avenues are opened, 759 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 1: the more likely people will stop pirating stuff because it's 760 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: just as easy and it's safer to buy it or 761 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,320 Speaker 1: to access it in a legal way than it is 762 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: to pirate. And that seems to be the argument all around, 763 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 1: is that if you make it easier and uh and safer, 764 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,640 Speaker 1: then there's no reason for people to go this extra 765 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,759 Speaker 1: route where they could either encounter malware or perhaps the 766 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: wrath of one of these enormous organizations. It makes more 767 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: sense to go the legal route. UM. So, I mean 768 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 1: it's you know, we'll have to see if that continues. 769 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: It's a it's a lesson that every industry learns on 770 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 1: its own, right. We saw the record industry learn it first. 771 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: The movie and TV industry is still learning it right. 772 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: Industry publishing industry is a little behind. But that's the 773 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,919 Speaker 1: thing is that we see this happen over and over again. 774 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: It's and it's almost exactly the same story each time. Yeah. 775 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: That that Computer Museum in um Lynch Being Sweden. The 776 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: curator Thomas Clifford, when he when he got that that 777 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: original server that the Pirate Bay was hosted on UM 778 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: was talking about the impact that the Pirate Bay has 779 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 1: had on on the world and why he wanted to 780 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,560 Speaker 1: have this as part of his exhibit, and he said, 781 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 1: it's been a good way for people all over the 782 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: world to take part of a lot of cultural expressions. 783 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the right or wrong of it here, 784 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,280 Speaker 1: but simply stating that it has had a culturally enabling effect. 785 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 1: Interesting and I feel like that that I mean that's 786 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: it's that's a valid statement. It definitely has had a 787 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: cultural effect. And really, I mean it's it's changing industries. 788 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: It's not just cultural, it is industrial. We're seeing entire 789 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: industries respond to this and then adapt with this being 790 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: a reality. And uh, you know, I think in the 791 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,839 Speaker 1: long run things are going to be all right, Right, 792 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: It's just that every time this an industry encounters. Yeah. 793 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,360 Speaker 1: I mean, well, you know, any content creator is not 794 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: gonna want to Just think. I put in so much time, effort, 795 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: and money into creating this thing, and now people are 796 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: just taking it, whether you're the person who's actually making 797 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: it or you're the person who's providing the tools for 798 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: people to make it. Whatever. I want everyone to get 799 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: paid for for what they do. Yeah, I think that's groovy. Personally, 800 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,920 Speaker 1: I don't pirate anything anymore. I used to. I was 801 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 1: a terrible pirate. I'm not terrible pirate. Was actually pretty 802 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: good at it. Um. But I don't do that anymore. 803 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 1: Patch Jonathan no, no, I got a hook. Uh. I 804 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: don't do anymore. But at the same time, I'm like, 805 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: please make it easier for me to buy the things 806 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,319 Speaker 1: I love, because if if, if it is I'll buy them, 807 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 1: and if it's not, I don't buy them, and either, 808 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, either you get my money or you don't 809 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,160 Speaker 1: get my money. So all right, Well, this wraps up 810 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 1: this discussion about the Pirate Bay. It's an interesting and 811 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:24,839 Speaker 1: very you know, obviously polarizing kind of of topic. Uh, 812 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,359 Speaker 1: let's know what you think you know? Are are you? 813 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: Are you of the mindset that copyright should just go 814 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 1: away entirely? Does it just need to be adjusted to 815 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 1: need to be tweaked so it's not quite so extensive 816 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: as it is right now? Do you think that's ever 817 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 1: going to happen or is it just going to require 818 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 1: a world like the one the Pirate Bay has envisioned 819 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,439 Speaker 1: where the copyright doesn't matter because you can just get 820 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 1: around it anyway. Any let us know what you think. 821 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,480 Speaker 1: We're really excited to hear from you. Also, if you 822 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: have any suggestions for future topics, let's know that too. 823 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: You can get in touch with us in one of 824 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: many ways. If you have a lot to say, I 825 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 1: recommend email. That's a tech stuff at Discovery dot com. 826 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,719 Speaker 1: If you have something that you want to say in 827 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 1: characters are fewer, try Twitter. You can find us. There 828 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: are handled there as Tech Stuff hs W. If you've 829 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: got something somewhere in the middle and you think that 830 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,800 Speaker 1: it's really funny and it should appear on our Facebook page, 831 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: go to Facebook. We're Tech Stuff HSW there too, Lauren 832 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: and I will talk to you again really soon for 833 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,360 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it 834 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com