1 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: in the media business. 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 2: Today. 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety Today on the pod a Twofer. 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: We've got an interview with Phil Weiser, the CTO at 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Paramount Global. He sat down earlier this summer at the 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: Collision Tech conference in Toronto with my colleague at Variety, 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: Vip Heidi Chung to talk about a wide range of 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: technologies that his company is investing in. But before we 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: get to that, I'm going to try something new on 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: this Strictly Business podcast. For the past ten weeks, I've 13 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: been writing a new column on Variety Intelligence platform called 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: the Mogul Memo. Each installment is addressed to a different 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: mogul in the media world, maybe a CEO like Netflix's 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: Ted Surrounds or the new top executive at Elon Musk's 17 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: ex Linda Yakarino, and you'll find it candid in tone 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: that might actually be an understatement anyway. This week we're 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: bringing the Mogul Memo to podcast form. Call it the 20 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: Mogul Monologue, if you will. It's addressed this week to 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: Scooter Braun the pop star Svengali, who's been all over 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: the headlines. So you don't want to miss this one, 23 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: and you don't want to miss a Mogul memo. Check 24 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: them all out if you haven't yet at Variety dot 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: com slash Mogul Memo. Most are behind the VIP paywall, 26 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: but now's as good a time as any to join VIP. 27 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: If you haven't already, take advantage of a discounted rate. 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: Head over today to Variety dot com slash vip save. 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: That's enough promotion for me. Enjoy the strictly business debut 30 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: of the Mogul memo featuring Scooter Braun, followed by Heidi 31 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: Chung's interview with Paramount CTO Phil Wiser, and We're back. 32 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: Enjoy the strictly business debut of the Mogul Memo featuring 33 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: Scooter Braun, followed by Heidi Chung's interview with Paramount CTO 34 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: Phil Weiser. Dear Scooter, I would have reached out sooner, 35 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: but honestly, it's so awkward. I don't know what to say. 36 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: Hallmark doesn't make any sorry your career imploded sympathy cards. 37 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: After all, it's not every day a well known music 38 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: industry manager watches a trio of his best clients walk 39 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: out the door all at once. It's bad enough losing 40 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: Justin Bieber, but for the world to learn that you 41 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: also recently lost Demi Lovado and Ariana Grande. 42 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: That's rough. 43 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: That said, the terms of the suppose a departure are murky, 44 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: to say the least, as a source from your camp 45 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: issued a statement of Variety suggesting your clients technically haven't 46 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: moved on, though you kind of have. Quote all of 47 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: Scooter Braun's clients are under contract and negotiations have been 48 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: going on for several months as Scooter steps into his 49 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: larger role as Hibe America CEO. End quote. Hib America 50 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: is something of a side gig you've held down for 51 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: the past two years, but as Variety's Jim as Wad 52 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: recently reported, it's increasingly become your main focus, and that 53 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: I think Scooter is central to understanding why you lost 54 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: these clients, as a lot of the reporting this past 55 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: week supports, I think you deluded yourself for too long 56 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: into thinking that you could have kept them in the 57 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: fold by delegating the management to others on your team. 58 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: That's a notorious no no, in the manager business, where 59 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: bedside manner is everything. But I wouldn't beat yourself up 60 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: too much about running out of steam when I think 61 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: about the fact that you had a deal with handling 62 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: the kind of personal lives Bieber Grandelevado lead not to 63 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: mention until twenty eighteen, Kanye West, you qualify for hazard 64 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: pay early retirement. Maybe a lifetime supply is Zoloft. As 65 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: for your own personal take on this PR crisis, all 66 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: we have to go on was a joke you made 67 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: on twit sorry X where you proclaimed, quote breaking news, 68 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm no longer managing myself end quote. Thanks for clarifying, Scooter. 69 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: Since you've clearly retained your sense of humor, you couldn't 70 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: possibly be upset, Or maybe you're just trying to look 71 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: like you're not upset. The thing is, no one could 72 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: blame you if you were actually upset. Considering the legions 73 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: of Taylor Swift fans currently calling you out on social 74 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: media for the sin of buying her record company back 75 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, which Swift has characterized as stealing her 76 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: masters out from under her lightning rod, that deal turned 77 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: out to be It actually sparked a series of brilliant 78 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: transactions on your part to flip your own company to 79 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: South Korean k pop giant Hibe for just over a 80 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: billion dollars in twenty twenty one, giving you a seat 81 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: on the company's board and the CEO position at Hibe America. 82 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: Of course, no. 83 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: One really knows you from that job. They know you 84 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: as a manager, and now they know you as a 85 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: manager who has lost all of his best clients at 86 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: the same time. Now, this wouldn't look as bad as 87 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: it does if the gig at Hibe America you were 88 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: moving on to wasn't such a hmm and I'm putting 89 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: this charitably a work in progress. Hip America has to 90 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: be understood first and foremost as an attempt at diversification 91 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: away from the Hibe mothership, the k pop factory that 92 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: gave the world the Korean boy band BTS. And that's 93 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: no small load to carry. Because BTS is currently on 94 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: hiatus for the next few years. Good luck generating new 95 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: business while that cash cow takes a breather. What Hibe 96 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: America is primarily is Big Machine label group, the controversial 97 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: home of Swift's first six albums, which you acquired for 98 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: more than three hundred million. Nearly four years later, you 99 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: spent about the same amount for hip hop label Quality Control, 100 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: home of chart toppers including Little Baby and Lil YACHTI. 101 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: What's more, Bloomberg reported in June that Hibe was looking 102 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: to arrange financing for another three hundred and eighty million 103 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: to make more deals in the US, which all sounds great, Scooter, 104 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: except for when I ask myself what no one seems 105 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: to have noticed in this mess, which is, what have 106 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: you been doing for the past two years? You've already 107 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: been at Hip America perus. The first details in your bio, 108 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: for instance, and what is characterized as a quote elite 109 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: portfolio of acquisitions and partnerships end quote does not seem 110 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: very elite. For instance, it's mentioned a four year old 111 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: alliance with Marvel Studios founder David Mazel that seems to 112 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: be about building a new superhero franchise that so far 113 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: hasn't produced much but a forgettable and ft collection. There's 114 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: also a partnership with veteran unscripted producer j d Roth 115 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: that so far has yielded some pretty forgettable vanity projects 116 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: for the clients you just lost. There's also an investment 117 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: fund at the intersection of music and technology, featuring a 118 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: former BMG president who hasn't been with the fund since 119 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: May twenty twenty two. And there's also an investment firm, 120 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: TQ Ventures, which, according to a New York Post report 121 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: last week, is looking to quote ditch you. Now, maybe 122 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: all this is just another sign that you can't be 123 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: both a mogul and a manager. Maybe you have another 124 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: three hundred and eighty million in your pocket. You can 125 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: make some moves that will truly convince me you can 126 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: do something of note at High America. I have my doubts, 127 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna tell you why. I'm gonna give you 128 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt because I think this PR 129 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: crisis is actually a gift in disguise that is going 130 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: to force you to make a clean break from the 131 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: management business. If you follow my advice, you see your 132 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: swift rift reminded me. Looking bad in the public eye 133 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: is something you've acquainted with. You're one of the rare 134 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: few to walk through this fire and realize the wounds 135 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: do heal if you have tough enough skin, and unlike 136 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: most managers who adhere to the cardinal rule of old 137 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: school Hollywood representation, to remain in the shadows and let 138 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: their clients soak. 139 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 2: Up the spotlight. 140 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: You've always broken that rule and built an image for yourself, 141 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: kind of like someone who always had an endgame that 142 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: involved not being a manager. If that's the way you 143 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: think most in your shoes don't, then you probably believe 144 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: in another old school Hollywood axiom. There's no such thing 145 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: as bad publicity. And that's why you should look at 146 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: last week's events, which most may see as an act 147 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: of self destruction, as something like an act of reinvention. 148 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: So counterintuitive as this sounds, lean into it. Look, there's 149 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: no getting past a perception you've experienced a big setback. 150 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: But that's okay, because when a student of the dark 151 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: arts of pr like your your self can appreciate is 152 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: that there is a flip side to being thrust out 153 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: of the management business as dramatically as you have, And 154 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: that's you've sent as clear and loud as signal as 155 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: you can to the marketplace that you've opened a new 156 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: chapter in your career. Maybe it wasn't voluntary, and maybe 157 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: I'm not that confident you're ready for High of America, 158 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: but your mogul phase has begun and your manager one 159 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: has ended. You learn the hard way. Trying to straddle 160 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: the two won't work. So think of your crisis as 161 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: a chrysalis, a rebranding, or dare I say a rebranding. 162 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 2: Will be back in just a minute. 163 00:10:49,640 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: With Paramount CTO Bill Wiser. And now here is Heidi 164 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: Chung with her interview with Paramount CTO Phil Weiser from 165 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: the Collision Tech Conference. 166 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: Hi everyone, I'm Heidi, Thanks so much for joining us. 167 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: I'm joined by the Phil Weiser, EDP and Chief Technology 168 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 3: Officer at Paramount Global. 169 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 4: We're gonna get real intimate. 170 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 3: We're gonna talk about all things tech in media, and 171 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 3: I guess to kick things off, we should start sort 172 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 3: of from the new beginning, if you will. So the 173 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: merger between Viacom and CBS in twenty nineteen. Tell us 174 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 3: how the company has sort of evolved since then. 175 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 5: Well, the merger was a great opportunity to rethink what 176 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 5: a media company is going forward. We merged CBS and 177 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 5: Viacom and Paramount Pictures in the end of twenty nineteen, 178 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 5: and we took that as an opportunity to say, well, 179 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 5: if I were starting this scale of a media company now, 180 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 5: how would I rebuild it. 181 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 2: So we went and looked at everything. 182 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 5: From the way we produce content, process it, distribute it, 183 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 5: and obviously building out stream capabilities and from the ground 184 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 5: up rebuilt that on modern Internet cloud technologies, which is 185 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 5: a big undertaking with that complex of an organization. But 186 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 5: now three and a half years later, it's really paying 187 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 5: off and we've been able to grow some. 188 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: Businesses which we'll talk about on the back of all that. 189 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, so launch was obviously huge, but now I feel 190 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 3: like the streaming industry is sort of dealing with a 191 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 3: new set of challenges. 192 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 4: So as a consumer, I don't know. 193 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 3: About all of you, but sometimes I get a little 194 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,719 Speaker 3: frustrated with apps because the user experience isn't necessarily always great, right, 195 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 3: It's sort of hard to find content that you want 196 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 3: to watch. Recommendations aren't really that good. So is it 197 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 3: that something that you're thinking about? At Paramount Global as well. 198 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 5: Constantly so we'll hit a recommendations and a lot of 199 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 5: these things were like, it's the new streaming, these are 200 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 5: new problems to be tackled. 201 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 2: They're not new at all. 202 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 5: My last startup was in two thousand and six, and 203 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 5: the premise of that was to use recommendation and Netflix 204 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 5: at the same time, it just put out a challenge 205 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 5: to the tech community to come up with better recommendations. 206 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 2: So we're here almost twenty years later. 207 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 5: Still talking about recommendations, right, So it's definitely improving. But 208 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 5: what we found with recommendations is that user interface integration 209 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 5: is the key to success. You don't magically pull a 210 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 5: piece of content up and say you want to watch 211 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 5: this now. You just have to make sure that you're 212 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 5: modifying the user interface in real time based on that 213 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,719 Speaker 5: user and also based on the environment that they're in. 214 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 5: So we're definitely continuing to innovate there. We have an 215 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 5: applied machine learning group that really is our primary focus 216 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 5: is on modifying that UI based on now more and 217 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 5: more AI. 218 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 3: Okay, so algorithms one way that you're doing that as 219 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,599 Speaker 3: a lot of algorithms, Yeah, okay, great. 220 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 5: And they're not all AI algorithms. Good old analytics works 221 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 5: in a lot of cases. 222 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 3: Okay, So I know everyone here wants to hear Phil 223 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 3: talk about AI, which we will be getting to in 224 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 3: short in. 225 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 4: A short moment, but I do want. 226 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 3: To talk a little bit about last year. I feel 227 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 3: like the conversation last year and twenty two was a 228 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 3: lot about the metaverse. It was a lot about NFTs, 229 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 3: and I know Paramount Global was definitely playing those areas 230 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 3: as well. Where do those initiatives sort of stand right now? 231 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 3: Are you still thinking about investing there? 232 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 2: Well, why don't we? 233 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 5: I won't talk about where we're investing completely, but let's 234 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 5: talk about the blockchain NFT world for a bit. And 235 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 5: I've been, you know, big on crypto five years ago 236 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 5: as a storage of value, but you look back and 237 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 5: there's really no significant blockchain platform outside of value Store 238 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 5: that's been successful and including NFTs, except for those that 239 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 5: got in early and got out fast. So you know, 240 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 5: we're definitely, you know, continuing to look at the space, 241 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 5: but not investing heavily in that metaverse. We're still looking 242 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 5: at because there is something beyond a touchscreen computer in 243 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 5: your pocket that's going to be a primary user interface. 244 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: And if you just walk around here. 245 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 5: I live in Manhattan, I bump into more people than 246 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 5: I can count every day with their face stuck in 247 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 5: a phone trying to walk. 248 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: That heads down experience is going to evolve. 249 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 5: Where it goes, whether it's you know, Apple's new device 250 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 5: or something that Matter is doing I'm not really going 251 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 5: to bet completely on that. Betting against apples generally a 252 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 5: bad idea, but I do feel like that immersive experience 253 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 5: is going to get more more interesting. 254 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to be a completely. 255 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 5: Isolated metaverse as we talked about last year, but we're 256 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 5: still looking at that. 257 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 3: Give us an update on the NFT stuff that you 258 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 3: were working on. 259 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: Well, we're still in the market. 260 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 5: So we started out with a star Trek launch with 261 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 5: NFTs that were variations of the enterprise. We've done it 262 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 5: with other brands. We'll work with a company recur that 263 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 5: stands up a marketplace for that. We're continuing on that path. 264 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 5: But I think, like everyone, we're just seeing that it's 265 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 5: kind of it's stalling out to some extent in the market. 266 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 3: Okay, So when you're thinking about new opportunities when it 267 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: comes to tech within media, how do you assess investing 268 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 3: in different opportunities that you see and how does that 269 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 3: conversation sort of play out in the boardroom. 270 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 5: Well, we follow the consumer, right, so we're not going 271 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 5: to go to AI you tell me nice when you 272 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 5: can unleash me, but and we look at what's really 273 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 5: being adopted and we take an adventure investing approach to 274 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 5: these technologies. 275 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: We go in small. 276 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 5: Our metaverse investments have been relatively small. What we're building, 277 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 5: same thing with other technologies. But I'm really looking at, 278 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 5: you know, where there's a pivot in consumer adoption because 279 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 5: while we all know these things are going to happen, 280 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 5: when into what scale is the hardest thing to predict. 281 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 5: So we're very i think hopefully smart at being a 282 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 5: fast follower, making sure we're in talking to the key 283 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 5: players in these spaces and then we can accelerate when 284 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 5: the market really diet distraction. 285 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 4: Okay, so are you ready for AI or. 286 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: I'm always ready for it? 287 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 4: Okay, let's jump in. 288 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 3: What is Paramount doing when it comes to AI? How 289 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 3: are you thinking about it? 290 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: Now? 291 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 3: AI is not new technology, right, It's been around for 292 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: quite some time, but this is a new revolution that 293 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 3: we're seeing with generative AI. So what are your personal 294 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 3: thoughts on it? What is the company doing? 295 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 5: Well, we'll get to the it's not new thing, but 296 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 5: I'm glad that it's hitting this next wave. We formed 297 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 5: our five machine learning groups six years ago, which was 298 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 5: the last wave in that twenty seventeen timeframe. We started 299 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 5: talking naturally to computers with Syria and others, and that 300 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 5: was a big breakthrough in terms of language processing, so 301 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 5: real time natural language processing. And also we applied it 302 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 5: a lot for image recognition, so we stood up the 303 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 5: ability to tag images or video and then we could 304 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 5: we could modify that. This new phase of generative AI 305 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 5: to me is a fundamental shift obviously in terms of 306 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 5: what we can do in all phases of our production 307 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 5: and distribution. So we're looking at it primarily now in 308 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 5: terms of globalization, because you know, the ability to automatically 309 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 5: convert to many languages and release an asset around the 310 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 5: globe is very challenging and traditionally we've windowed. So if 311 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 5: we have, say a new episode of Yellowstone, and we 312 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 5: want to push that around the globe, we have a 313 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 5: couple months before it hit different regions. Now we want 314 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 5: that episode to hit everywhere in a couple of weeks, 315 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 5: which is really not just feasible in many cases. So 316 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 5: we're looking at how we can apply AI machine learning 317 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 5: to tackle some of those globalization problems and deal with 318 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 5: translation and make it feel very natural and high quality, 319 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 5: because we do feel like it's a global marketplace and 320 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 5: that's a great opportunity. We're also looking at for visual effects, 321 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 5: just basic simple visual effects. We talked about rotoscoping a 322 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 5: little earlier. I think we've got a ton of people 323 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 5: that are in their manually editing video. We applied this 324 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 5: actually to the Cobert Show, one of our CBS properties, 325 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 5: where they have to turn around some of these video 326 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 5: clips in a matter of hours. 327 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: Based on recent news, we took. 328 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 5: A couple of our editors and applied this and they 329 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 5: took a five hour task of creating a comedy clip 330 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 5: and did it in ten minutes. So that just proves 331 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 5: that and they're thrilled because the creative idea was there, 332 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 5: they knew what they wanted to do, and then they 333 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 5: had hours of manual labor to. 334 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 2: Get to the end result. 335 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 5: In this case, they could flip that around very quickly 336 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 5: and move on to the next thing. So I think 337 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 5: there's going to be a lot of impact on production 338 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 5: and then also marketing we. 339 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 2: Should talk about as well. 340 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 5: Tell us well, you know, as a media company, we 341 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 5: spend almost all of our money on creating content and 342 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 5: marketing it. 343 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 2: And marketing is. 344 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 5: Really a great application for AI right now because generally 345 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 5: the content you're producing is derivative of the original content, 346 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 5: and the machine learning algorithms now and AI are very 347 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 5: good at modifying existing content or introducing new elements of 348 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 5: existing content. So we're applying that, you know, at scale 349 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 5: to marketing again for globalization, also to create a lot 350 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 5: of different variants, so we can create different versions of 351 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 5: a promo clip or a trailer for a feature from 352 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 5: different audiences very quickly, which is now very manual. 353 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: So we see a lot of opportunity in that. 354 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 3: Okay, So, Phil, judging by the way that you're speaking 355 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 3: about AI and the way that paramount is leveraged. 356 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 2: Why did you get it? 357 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 3: You sound really optimistic, but we know that there are 358 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 3: concerns out there, right, So despite your bullishness, what are 359 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 3: your thoughts on sort of the idea that creatives are like, well, 360 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 3: are we going to be out of a job in 361 00:19:59,119 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 3: a few years? 362 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 4: Is a I going to take over? And are they 363 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 4: going to be writing scripts? 364 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 3: Are they going to be you know, help helping with 365 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 3: production to the point where some producers won't even be needed. Like, 366 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: what are your thoughts on those concerns job security for 367 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 3: the creatives. 368 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 5: Well, there's there's a basic reality that this wave of 369 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 5: technology will shift where people need to spend their time working. 370 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: You just can't deny that. 371 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 5: But I think it's been overhyped that this AI is 372 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 5: going to go and generate a script, generate novel, new 373 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 5: ideas that replace what humans are doing. I think it's 374 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 5: you know, maybe it'll get there over time. 375 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 2: And I've had a lot of debates on that topic 376 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 2: about what that is. 377 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 5: It's kind of a more consciousness existential question that I 378 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 5: won't get into. But the ability to assist in the 379 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 5: way I describe that editor on the lay show is 380 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 5: very real. So we're looking in from a tool perspective, 381 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 5: and even in the writer's room, if a writer can 382 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 5: have an idea and then turn that into a couple 383 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 5: pages of text, and then curate and modify that, and 384 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 5: even take that idea and say I want to see 385 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 5: what that looks like in a desert and see you know, 386 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 5: pre visualization of that work in almost real time, that's 387 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 5: going to make their creative process much more powerful. And 388 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 5: I think we're gonna get more ideas, we're gonna have 389 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 5: more content. And the one thing we're learning from the 390 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 5: streaming wars that we're all in still is, you know, 391 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 5: consumers having limitless appetite for content, which is great as 392 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 5: a content company. So we're going to have to continue 393 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 5: to create more even when the pressure is there on 394 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 5: streaming to be profitable, which you know, the level of 395 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 5: high quality theatrical grade episodic content that we're producing is now, 396 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 5: you know, not maintainable. We're gonna have to figure out 397 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 5: how to produce that high quality content at a lower cost. 398 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 3: So Paramount is a company with a treasure trove of 399 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 3: IP right from SpongeBob to you name it. 400 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 4: Paramount has created it. 401 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 3: So when we're thinking about AI and intellectual property and 402 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 3: protecting that IP, how are you sort of thinking about 403 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 3: that now? 404 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 5: Well, there's a couple elements, Like one is understanding what 405 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 5: our rights are and what I did a presentation for 406 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 5: our senior leadership team at Paramount back in December where 407 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 5: I lost the Saturday. I'm sure many if you have 408 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 5: lost a Saturday playing around with mid Journey, Dolly, you 409 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 5: name it chat. 410 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: GBT three had just come out. But I did a 411 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 2: presentation and I went in there and I generated. 412 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 5: A picture of the transformers on the Paramount Pictures lot, 413 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 5: which blew people away. Like we knew there would be 414 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 5: a character from transformers in one of these models, but 415 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 5: the fact that it could place it on our lots 416 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 5: next to our cafe bleue people away. Just a level 417 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 5: of information that's in there right now. Now we're not 418 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 5: blocking that. Right now, we're trying to understand what it 419 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 5: means for us, But there will be more and more 420 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 5: regulation coming in. I was actually somewhat pleased to see 421 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 5: what was coming out in Washington, DC is ideas from 422 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 5: Congress that were pretty pragmatic and not just going straight 423 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 5: to it. All has to be explainable. You have to 424 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 5: tell us everything you're training your models on. But more 425 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 5: of like, if it's clearly a violation of copyright, there 426 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 5: has to be some way that we can. 427 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 2: Take action on it. 428 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 3: I mean what you're saying with regulation, but I feel 429 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 3: like if we've seen any other big tech hearing, these 430 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 3: people sometimes don't know what they're talking about, right, So 431 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 3: when it comes to AI, they seem a lot more 432 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 3: I guess read up on it, more understanding of the technology. 433 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 3: But do you think the government can regulate quickly enough? 434 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 3: Because this technology is so quick right, It's rapidly evolving. 435 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 3: So I guess like, are there any concerns on that 436 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 3: front at all. 437 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, my view is they should do the best they 438 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 5: can while not doing damage. And that's actually what I 439 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 5: liked hearing coming out, was that kind of mindset that 440 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 5: clearly this is going to move faster than we can 441 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 5: stop it. This moratorium concept's kind of ridiculous. Nobody's going 442 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 5: to do that. But if we're thoughtful and we have 443 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 5: people like Sam Oupman coming in and talking to us, 444 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 5: then we can figure out what makes sense in the 445 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 5: near term and set us up for a longer term. 446 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 5: I think doing nothing is the wrong thing to do. 447 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 2: I really do. 448 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 5: And we've learned our lesson from social media, which you've 449 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 5: heard a lot, so I. 450 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 2: Think doing something but being thoughtful is the right right approach. 451 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 3: Okay, so to put you on the spot, but to 452 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 3: kind of put you on the spot. Give us a 453 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 3: little bit of a prediction where you think AI within 454 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 3: media and entertainment could potentially be in the next six 455 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 3: months to twelve months. Do you think it'll still be 456 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 3: talk of the town? Are we still going to be 457 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 3: talking about this at every conference? What are your thoughts there. 458 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 5: I'm not sure where the hype is going to go 459 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 5: off the other side of it. I think we will, 460 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 5: because you know, if you just look at the adoption 461 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 5: rate and the stickiness of the consumer facing tools, there's 462 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 5: something there that's going to persist. I think on the 463 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,719 Speaker 5: production side, it's going to be slower because we've got 464 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 5: these complicated labor issues and we want to make sure 465 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 5: we get it right and there's going to be a 466 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 5: lot of questions around quality. But I think there's going 467 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 5: to be a Pixar moment where some creative really leans 468 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 5: into this, like a James Cameron type figure who knows 469 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 5: who it is and figures out how to apply this 470 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 5: to a story that's really compelling, and can you deal 471 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 5: with the limitations of video generated this way but really 472 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 5: blow people away in terms of the way it impacts them. 473 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 5: I don't know when that's going to come, but somebody's 474 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 5: going to do it, and I think that's when, on 475 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 5: the creative side, we get a real tip in the market. 476 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 4: Great. 477 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 3: Great, Okay, So let's take a little bit of a 478 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 3: step back. I feel like we talked quite a bit 479 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 3: about AI. I do want to get some additional insights 480 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 3: from you on just what else within whether it's streaming, 481 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 3: within production, Like what other tech strategies are you thinking 482 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: about operationally right now. 483 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 5: You know what's interesting we didn't touch on is it's 484 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 5: actually a VR variant is virtual productions. So the Mandalorians, obviously, 485 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 5: if you've heard of it, the Mandalorian was filmed on 486 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 5: a virtual set, so they didn't have to go to 487 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 5: a physical set. It was all led volumes and that 488 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 5: approach took a while to figure out. But now a 489 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 5: lot of content is being shot inside of a game engine. 490 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 5: So the use of Unreal engine in the middle of 491 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 5: high quality productions is I think going to continue to 492 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 5: take off. And Epics done a great job, you know, 493 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 5: updating the Unreal engine for high quality video production. So 494 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 5: I think that's going to be a really big, super 495 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 5: interesting trends. 496 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 3: One other thing, I feel like we have to talk 497 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 3: about gaming because the last panel really went in heavily there. 498 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 3: But you know, we have companies like Netflix making bets 499 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 3: on gaming. A lot of folks in media think that's 500 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 3: like the next big opportunity. 501 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 4: How do you view gaming at paramount? 502 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 5: I think gaming is a great, huge market. Obviously it's eclipsed, 503 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 5: you know, the theatrical market. But we like to license 504 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 5: our brands and the people that know how to make 505 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 5: those experiences. I'm a skeptic that integrating a lean forward 506 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 5: gaming experience into the middle of a laid back video 507 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 5: passive consumption experience, I don't think it makes any sense, 508 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 5: and people can I debate that all the time, So I'm, 509 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 5: you know, not the only one thinking that. 510 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 2: I have a lot of people that don't agree. 511 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 5: But it just it hasn't It hasn't played out, and 512 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 5: I've played around with people that have tried to do 513 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 5: different narratives, and the one thing that I would point 514 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 5: to is five years ago, everyone thought all streaming services 515 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 5: were going to be consumed on mobile phones. That was 516 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 5: obvious logic given what happened in the in the twenty tens, 517 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 5: and what we're seeing now is most of the video 518 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 5: minutes consumed are on a lean back, big screen TV, 519 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 5: and that is something that we have to learn from 520 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 5: to say there is a distinction between those experiences, and 521 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 5: I just don't see the convergence of them at a 522 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 5: single UI. I think there's going to be more and 523 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 5: more gaming that's derivative from RIP, but I don't see 524 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 5: it completely. 525 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 4: Integrated rest in piece quibi right, But. 526 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 5: Look, the next phase of it could be something beyond 527 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 5: leaning down and touching a little screening you have to 528 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,959 Speaker 5: carry around in your pocket. And you know what Apple 529 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 5: unveiled in terms of a very high quality, large scale, 530 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 5: leaned back experience. 531 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 2: That could be the shift. 532 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 5: And we've been poking around at that for ten years 533 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 5: as well to get the form factor of the hardware right, 534 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 5: get through some of the physical limitations of that. But 535 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 5: if they get it right, that could be the next 536 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 5: shift to make it more interactive. 537 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 3: So mixed reality, mixed reality, Yeah, I mean I was 538 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 3: pretty shocked when ball By came out on stage with 539 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 3: or he came out to talk about that. I was 540 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 3: not expecting that, But it looks like a lot of 541 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 3: folks are thinking about that being a major, major opportunity 542 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 3: going forward. So anything else that you kind of want 543 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 3: us to be thinking about when we're thinking about technology 544 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 3: within media and entertainment, Well. 545 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 5: Hit on the AI thing again because I think there's 546 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 5: a big challenge to the technology and entrepreneurial community, like 547 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 5: nobody can create great video with AI, yet, like you've 548 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 5: got people I'm on multiple Twitter feeds every day. 549 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 2: If people like. 550 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 5: AI is going to take over Hollywood and then you 551 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 5: go watch the same stylized dogs you. 552 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 2: Know, shooting guns clips that. 553 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 5: Are stitched together and like, that's not going to kill Hollywood, 554 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 5: and then when you look at the video, it's very flickery. 555 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 5: So there's fundamental architecture issues that need to be resolved. 556 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 5: So whoever can figure out how to build a multimodal 557 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 5: system that stitches together different models and can be a 558 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 5: real high quality production tool in the middle of these 559 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 5: video creation processes, that's that's super interesting. I'd love to 560 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 5: talk to anyone that has ideas on that because I'm 561 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 5: you know, going deep on it and working with the 562 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 5: big companies and it's to me that's the uncharted territory 563 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 5: at this point is really you know, getting video production, 564 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 5: you know, coming out of these models in. 565 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 2: A meaningful way. 566 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 3: But by your estimate, how difficult and how long do 567 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 3: you think that would take. 568 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 5: I've got my you know, my six months you know, 569 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 5: deep dive view on it. I think there's going to 570 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 5: have to be an architectural shift in the models. So 571 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 5: you know, GPTs are not going to solve it. So 572 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 5: I think it's not a matter of just throwing a 573 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 5: bunch of data at it. There's going to have to 574 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 5: be some architecture design, which means it's going to take 575 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 5: a little bit longer. But I would imagine there's so 576 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 5: much energy around it. In the next say two to 577 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 5: three years, there'll be something really significant that breaksthrough, hopefully 578 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 5: a GPT type of technology breakthrough that enables it to perform. 579 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 2: Better for video. 580 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 4: Any other parting thoughts, No, just keep going at it. 581 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 5: It's really excited. We didn't talk about it. My background 582 00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 5: is the startup land. I came out of the area 583 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 5: if you're invested in a couple of dozen and started 584 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 5: two of my own companies. 585 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 2: So I just love the energy here. It's great, good 586 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 2: it could be here, real hunter. 587 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 3: Thank you Phil, Thanks everyone, have a good day. 588 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: This has been another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in 589 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: next week for another helping of scyntillating conversation with media 590 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: movers and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to 591 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 1: the podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave a review 592 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: in Apple Podcasts 593 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: And let us know how we're doing.