1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 2: name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. We've covered 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: numerous examples of this before. But obviously, in days before 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: photography and videography, one had to depend on illustrations and 6 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: written descriptions to convey the reality of an organism, you know, 7 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 2: be it a bird or a fish, what have you. 8 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: But this is especially true for creatures that lived in 9 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 2: lands beyond your direct experience. You know, what are the 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: what are the mammals, what are the birds? Like on 11 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 2: another continent. Well, you have to send people out in 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: the world. They can, you know, to a certain extent. 13 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: They can bring specimens back. Certainly, they can bring parts 14 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: of specimens back, but it's those illo in some cases. 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: But it's those illustrations that really bring things alive. Now, 16 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: certainly there are some fine examples of naturalist illustration out there, 17 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: especially from recent centuries. I mean there's some gorgeous, like 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: you say, like Audubond illustrations and paintings that sort of thing. 19 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: But there are also countless examples, and we've touched on 20 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: these before in the show of rougher drawings, drawings that 21 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: feel like, you know, there's been a game of telephone 22 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: at play. And this is especially the case for examples 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 2: found in various bestiaries and medieval manuscripts, among other places. 24 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: And when we think of such misconstrued animals, you know, 25 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 2: what do we tend to think about? You know, we 26 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: think about the rhino, We think about the lion, the whale, 27 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: the elephant, you know, great animals, apex, predators, and megafauna. 28 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 2: But in this episode, in the next episode, at the 29 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: very least, we're going to get into another creature that 30 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: has also experienced extreme inaccuracy in historic illustration, and that 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: is a common beaver. Based on just some of the 32 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: images we've been looking at, a beaver might well be 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: a kind of strange dog or a pig, with perhaps 34 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: a fish tail on its body and a real hybrid 35 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 2: feeling like it is, almost like it's a strange like 36 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: dog mermaid. It might be in almost all respects a deer, 37 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: like a creature with long legs and hooves, And it 38 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: may also look like a strange and confused rodent with 39 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: a great button seam running down its chest. It may 40 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: even look like a weirdly serpentine lion. 41 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 3: So Rob has been sharing medieval and Renaissance illustrations of 42 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 3: beavers with me for a couple of days now, and 43 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 3: I really do love all of them, but I do 44 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 3: think the one I like the most is the one 45 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 3: that's just straight up a deer with hooves, except it 46 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: has razor blades for teeth, just like the rectangular blades. 47 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this one. I had to go deeper on 48 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: this one because I was it initially came up in 49 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 2: an image search, and you know, I think it was 50 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: maybe on a Pinterest or something. I was like, I 51 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 2: can't trust this, but I eventually looked it up in 52 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: the catalog of illuminated manuscripts and it is a Northern 53 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: Italian illustration from somewhere around the year fourteen forty, and yeah, 54 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: it just looks like a It is labeled as a beaver, 55 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: but it is in all respects of deer. So I 56 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: was just really astounded, like here, especially as an image, 57 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 2: that it not only gets the form wrong regarding the 58 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: target organism, it gets everything about like the energy of 59 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: the creature wrong, you know, cause it's it's one thing 60 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: if you have a depiction of a rhino. That okay, 61 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: it's like a big armor plated thing with four legs. 62 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: It's like, all right, I mean, that's it's an extravagant 63 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: version of the truth. But this it's like, how wrong 64 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: did this game of telephone go? 65 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 3: Right? With the right you like, with deerors rhinoceros, you 66 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: can see that beginning as a rhinoceros but with embellishments, yes, 67 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 3: But with the beaver, it's like, oh, I'm sorry, did 68 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 3: you say beaver? I thought you asked for a depiction 69 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 3: of a lion with a snake neck biting its own genitals. 70 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: That's right, because and this is this is something we'll 71 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: probably get into mostly in the next episode, but there 72 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 2: is this pervasive myth that existed for a very long 73 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: time that when pursued by hunters, a male beaver would 74 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: chew off its own testicles. And so many of these images. 75 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 2: Be your creature more dog or catlike or or or 76 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 2: actually just a deer with razor sharp teeth, it is 77 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 2: often depicted g nine at its testicles. That at least 78 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: we have some answers for in the next episode where 79 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: that idea comes from and why it's so pervasive. 80 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 3: Right, So you've got to stick around for next time 81 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 3: to hear that. 82 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's let's start with what we know. Let's 83 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: start with the reality. We're gonna start by talking about 84 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 2: just basic beaver anatomy and behavior. And I probably don't 85 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: have to tell most listeners out there what a beaver 86 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: looks like. I mean, for starters, like, we have images 87 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: all over the place of them, we have documentary footage. 88 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,559 Speaker 2: Many of you can go and see a live beaver 89 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 2: at least in some sort of like a zoo environment, 90 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: or you have seen them in the past. But on 91 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: the other side of the coin, it's like, I still 92 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: kind of have to tell you what a beaver looks 93 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: like because the beaver is kind of in the same 94 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 2: category as the spouting whale, as we discussed in some 95 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 2: of our recent whale episodes, that's particularly the ones on 96 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: spouting and spouts. Because despite all this access to actual, 97 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: solid documentary footage of the beaver, we still have this 98 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: rich history of cartoon depictions of beavers that inevitably cloud 99 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: our understanding of the creatures. 100 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 3: I mean, I think you get a fairly accurate mental 101 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 3: picture if you just cross a squirrel with a grizzly bear. 102 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: You know, you mash those two up your most of 103 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 3: the way there. But while that does get you sort 104 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: of the shape the outline, right, that does not tell 105 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 3: you everything you need to know about beaver's. Beavers are 106 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: much stranger and more beautiful than I realized. 107 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 108 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of weird and wonderful aspects to 109 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: their morphology, to their behavior, and a lot of this 110 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: is stuff that our popular conceptions of the beaver don't 111 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: get into. I mean, you know, they do get some 112 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 2: of the things right. You know, the basic shape of 113 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 2: the beaver is far better in cartoon than it is 114 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 2: in many of these eliminated manuscripts. You know, some things 115 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: hold up. Obviously, beavers are not going to sell you 116 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: out to the White Witch. That's absolutely true. So C. S. 117 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: Lewis was right on that count, even if he got 118 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: the whole diet of the beaver wrong, because in Narnia, 119 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 2: apparently beavers like to eat fish and chips. That's not 120 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 2: happening in the actual natural world. 121 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 3: On the other hand, I will say, there is the 122 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 3: kind of food and organism usually seeks out to eat 123 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 3: in its environment, versus what an animal will eat if 124 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 3: given the opportunity. I kind of wonder. I feel like 125 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 3: if you gave a beaver a basket chips and some 126 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 3: malt vinegar, I don't know they might get into that. 127 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's start with the basics here. So 128 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: beavers are rodents and are in fact the second largest 129 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: extant rodent, surpassed only by the mighty capybara. Beavers can 130 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: weigh up to fifty kilograms or one hundred and ten pounds. 131 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: There are two extant species of beaver. There's the North 132 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: American beaver or Castor canadensis and the Eurasian beaver caste 133 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: or fiber. But the Castoridae family includes some impressive extinct 134 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: species as well. In fact, there were giant beavers that 135 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: lived during the Pleistocene, reaching weights of up to one 136 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty five kilograms or two hundred and seventy 137 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: six pounds, So that is more than twice as big 138 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 2: as extant beavers, though I was reading they seem to 139 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: have had smaller brains, among other morphological differences. But yeah, 140 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: so they were bigger, and you know, maybe to some 141 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: extent they didn't have to or at not yet developed 142 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: these very impressive behaviors and abilities that we'll get into 143 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: concerning modern beavers. Now, one note on these guys. They 144 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: were still smaller than the fifteen hundred kilogram or thirty 145 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: three hundred pound giant pacaranas of South America. Extant pacaranas 146 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: only get up to like thirty three pounds or fifteen kilograms, 147 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: and they can still be found in the western Amazonian 148 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: River basin. But the giant ones they were pretty massive. 149 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 2: A lot of rodents of unusual size in prehistory, all. 150 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: Right, So no beavers today in that territory. But beavers 151 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 3: can still get pretty chunky. 152 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, they're pretty big. And this is like 153 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: a fact. I frequently forget that they're the second biggest rodent. 154 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: The Caapi bear is easy to remember, but it's sometimes 155 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 2: it's easy to forget who's coming in second. Now, it's 156 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: extremely important to note that beavers are semi aquatic, having 157 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: evolved to thrive in various freshwater habitats. So a number 158 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: of the things we're going to be discussing about them 159 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 2: lying up with their habitat. For instance, they can hold 160 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: their breath for fifteen minutes. They have transparent third eyelids 161 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 2: called micitating membranes to aid them in their swims much 162 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 2: like manates. They also famously have long, flat, black tails. 163 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: We know this from the cartoons obviously, and these aid 164 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: them and they're swimming, but they can also use them 165 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 2: to sound an alarm by slapping the water, slapping the 166 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 2: surface of the water, and they also use them to 167 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 2: balance when they're carrying wood or other loads across the ground. 168 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: For any of you out there who watch a lot 169 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 2: of animal videos on Instagram and so forth, you may 170 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: have seen videos of adorable beavers carrying carrots around, and 171 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: if you're not looking closely enough, you might think they're 172 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: dragging their tails. But if you will look closely, you 173 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 2: can see that the tail is off the ground and 174 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 2: it's helping them balance. 175 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: One of the things I've noticed about watching beavers try 176 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 3: to move objects around is how much more gracefully they 177 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 3: do it in the water than on the land. So 178 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 3: these are semi aquatic mammals, but I don't know, it 179 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: seems to me that the water is where they're really 180 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 3: in their element. They can swim fast and gracefully, even 181 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 3: carrying like an unwieldy branch that's kind of unbalanced or something. 182 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 3: They do that all quite well in the water and 183 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 3: then once you see them sort of toddling along across 184 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 3: the dry land, it looks much more comical and awkward. 185 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is going to be important to keep 186 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: in mind when we talk about the amazing ways that 187 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: they transform an environment to better fit their needs and desires. 188 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: Oh but before we get into that, we of course 189 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 2: have to talk about the teeth of the beaver. This 190 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: is something that is generally an important part of cartoon 191 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: imagery concerning the beaver. A lot of times cartoon beavers 192 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: will speak with a kind of whistle in their voice, 193 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: but we also tend to get it quite wrong. 194 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm trying to picture the cartoon beaver. I 195 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 3: think what we always see is an overbite with two 196 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 3: kind of square shaped teeth grouped right together in the middle, 197 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 3: like a person's front two teeth, but large and overlapping 198 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 3: the bottom lip. Is that about it? 199 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, pretty much. 200 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: The truth is much more shocking. 201 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they have these. You know, if you look 202 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: at a skull of a beaver, it's pretty remarkable because 203 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 2: it's like this, the really kind of exaggerated rodent skull 204 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: with just incredible incisors, you know, with these two big 205 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: shovel like teeth coming down from the top, two big 206 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: shovel like teeth coming up from the bottom, and then 207 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 2: the rest of the back teeth or much further back, 208 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 2: you know, giving them some ample room to do the 209 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: kind of a woodwork that they need to do with 210 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: those chompers. 211 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: The skull is a powerful bone hinge, and it's like 212 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 3: it's like a kind of alien biotechnological set of bolt cutters, 213 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: except the bolt cutters are orange teeth. 214 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: That's right. The orange is key. This is something I 215 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: will almost never see in like a cute c illustration 216 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 2: or a cartoon depiction of a beaver. So, yeah, these 217 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 2: teeth have thick layers of enamel which has this orange colorization. 218 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: Because while other rodents boast magnesium enriched tooth enamel, beavers 219 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 2: have iron enriched enamel. They're like, I mean, it's it's 220 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: like something out of out of a comic book, right. 221 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: The iron makes their teeth stronger against this the pure 222 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: mechanical stress that they put them through. We should also 223 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: note that these teeth continue to grow throughout their lives, 224 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: to the point where they have to gnaw them down 225 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: on trees to keep them down. But yeah, they're just 226 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 2: super resilient, always growing, and they're also more resilient to 227 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 2: acid as well based on their composition. 228 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 3: Just some tough, rusty looking teeth. 229 00:12:45,960 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, the orange is really quite shyy. 230 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 2: Okay. Another essential biological aspect of the beaver before getting 231 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 2: into their behavior is that they have a cloaca. So 232 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:10,239 Speaker 2: most mammals do not have a cloeca. There are some exceptions, 233 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: you know. You look at the monotremes, golden moles, marsupial moles, 234 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 2: ten rex just a few examples, but mammals have mostly 235 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 2: lost these general purpose openings over the course of their evolution, 236 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: but in beaver's they seem to be present as a 237 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 2: case of secondary evolution, perhaps as an adaptation I've read against. 238 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 2: It may have to do with the watery environments they 239 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: find themselves in, protecting themselves against infections that might occur 240 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 2: due to the state of that water. But it's also 241 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: something and this will become important, I believe in the 242 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 2: next episode as well. It can make it difficult to 243 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 2: sex a beaver, as males and females look pretty much 244 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: the same unless the female happens to be pregnant or 245 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 2: nursing at the time. That you're trying to sex them. 246 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 2: And when I say you, I of course mean people 247 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 2: who have authority and expertise to be out in the 248 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: wild trying to sex the beaver. You know, leave it 249 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: to the professional biologists. 250 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 3: Leave it to beaver scientists. 251 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: Yes, so these various features aid the beaver in its 252 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: primary enterprise of ecosystem engineering. We all know that beavers 253 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 2: build dams. You know, this is of course is true 254 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: of the cartoons. But what does that really mean? Why 255 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: why are beavers building dams? What are they accomplishing? So 256 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: they actively alter their ecosystem via the blockage of rivers 257 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: and streams with structures of like, you know, sticks, mud, 258 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 2: chunks of trees, that sort of thing, all cobbled together 259 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: to dam up the water, and this allows them to 260 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 2: create new lakes, new ponds, whole floodplains. Meanwhile, the lodges 261 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: they construct for themselves are also made out of this 262 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: kind of stuff, branches and mud and so forth, and 263 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 2: they can only be accessed from underwater entrances in their 264 00:14:58,840 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: constructed ponds. 265 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is something I don't know if I 266 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 3: realized before. I think a lot of people assume that 267 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 3: beavers live in their dams. But I think the better 268 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: way to think about it is beavers construct dams in 269 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 3: order to block waterways, which causes the area upstream of 270 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 3: the dams to deepen and have a more lake like 271 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 3: environment rather than a flowing river or stream. And then 272 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: in that flooded area that is where they build the 273 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 3: lodge they live in. So they sort of create a 274 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 3: flooded area, which can it conserve multiple purposes, one to 275 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 3: house the lodge, but then also they can sort of 276 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 3: dig out from there. I think you're about to mention 277 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 3: something about this. 278 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're a lot like humans. Human beings do this 279 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 2: with their modern technology. They come to say a dry 280 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: desert environment or a swamp environment, and they're like, you 281 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: know what would go great here? What I would like 282 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: for my purposes of living here. I'd love it to 283 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: be just like a nice little park with some nice 284 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 2: you know, and maybe a few trees. I'm going to 285 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 2: change everything so that it fits my needs. So the 286 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: primary purpose for the beaver dam is to create a 287 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: protective body of water for that lodge, making it even 288 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: more difficult for predators to get at them. And even 289 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: if predators were to get to them, they have that 290 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 2: underwater escape route in the event of an attack, that's 291 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 2: the only the only way in and out. Now. It's 292 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: worth noting, however, that especially in parts of Eurasia, beavers 293 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 2: don't always have the same predator threat they once did, 294 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: but they build anyway because no one told them not to. 295 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 2: And also, more seriously, like, even though they are not 296 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: predators now, I mean that's you know, any kind of 297 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 2: evolutionary change would occur over a much vaster period of 298 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: time than the removal of their predators amounts to. 299 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 3: Right, So an environment full of say like gray wolves 300 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 3: and bears may have shaped them. And even if there 301 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 3: are many fewer of these predators than there once was, 302 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 3: that they are still the animal made by that world. 303 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 4: Right. 304 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: For instance, they're still certainly nocturnal creatures. I mean they're 305 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 2: also active, you know, dusk and dawn a little bit, 306 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 2: but during the day proper they're inside, they're resting, and 307 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 2: part of that is to avoid predators. Now, you mentioned earlier, 308 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 2: Joe that even just looking at videos you can tell 309 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 2: that they're more awkward on land than they are in 310 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 2: the water. And that's of course another big important aspect 311 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: of their damming of waterways, creating this sort of vast 312 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 2: flood plain, like turning a stream going through a forest 313 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 2: or something to this effect into kind of a flooded 314 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 2: forest environment. This opens up speedy water routes back to 315 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 2: their lodge. From perspective, feeding grounds. 316 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 3: Yes, sort of the same way. You could imagine it, 317 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 3: like humans creating roads like paved roads between say the 318 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 3: farms that they work during the day and the houses 319 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 3: they live in. But beavers would do this by instead 320 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 3: creating flooded areas. Especially, they can sort of like dig 321 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: out channels along the bottom that the water from these 322 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 3: flooded areas can run into, allowing them to have a 323 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 3: sort of canals like roads made of water where they 324 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 3: can move quickly, where they can move submerged, which is 325 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 3: safer and better for them than trying to move awkwardly 326 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 3: over land. 327 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, in doing this, of course, they alter the 328 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 2: ecosystem local ecosystem in a major way, opens up opportunities 329 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: for various other organisms as well, and also discuss some 330 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 2: of the potential downsides at least for some organisms in 331 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 2: a bit. But at any rate, this cements the beaver's 332 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: place as a keystone species. Beaver's just just completely change 333 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 2: the immediate environment, produces more open water, higher water tables. 334 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 2: And yeah, it's this entire system they have going for 335 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: them here is just so fascinating. You can if you 336 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 2: look online, you can find some some side profiles, some 337 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 2: cutaways of what the lodge looks like, and it's pretty ingenious. 338 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: It also serves as a place for them to store 339 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 2: food and even provides recue huge during frozen months. They 340 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: don't hibernate properly, but they can hold up in there. 341 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 3: One of the things I've read about is that they 342 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 3: often can store lots of food, so they are vegetarians 343 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 3: that eat actually, like you know, parts of trees, vegetation 344 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 3: from all around them, which they can keep stored in 345 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 3: the water underneath the pond created by their dams. And 346 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 3: that's an interesting thing. They can raise the water level 347 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: in order to help protect areas of food storage in 348 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 3: the water for the winter, because by raising the water 349 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 3: level they create more area underneath that won't freeze over 350 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 3: when the weather gets cold. 351 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, and these these lodges and dams that they can 352 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 2: they even though the beavers themselves tend only live about 353 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 2: I think eight years max. A single lodge and dam 354 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: can be maintained over generations, so the lodges may end 355 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: up with like several stories to them, and the dams 356 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: can get quite massive. There's an Alberta area dam that 357 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: was built apparently in the nineteen seventies, initially wasn't discovered 358 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 2: till around two thousand and seven because it's just out 359 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere. It's not like in downtown Alberta. 360 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 2: It's like out in the boonies. And it's thought to 361 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 2: be the world's largest beaver dam known beaver dam anyway, 362 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 2: covering a good half mile. There's actually an Alice Obscure 363 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 2: article about it. If anyone's interested, just look up world's 364 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: largest beaver dam and you can see some like aerial photographs. 365 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 3: You know, something interesting I was reading about was the 366 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 3: role of beavers in maintaining ecosystem health by allowing for 367 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 3: a greater diversity of different types of plant life to thrive. 368 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 3: I think sort of in the same way that forest 369 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 3: fires you might think of them as purely destructive. Of 370 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: course they are destructive, but you know, forest fires occur 371 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 3: naturally all the time, and when a forest burns, that 372 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 3: creates sort of new opportunities for new types of plants 373 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: and other life forms to thrive in a place that 374 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 3: was once covered up by you know, a lot of 375 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 3: tree camp. So in the areas around beaver dams and lodges, 376 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 3: they will clear out lots of the trees. They literally 377 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 3: chew them down and they'll fall, and you know, the 378 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 3: beavers will do what they will with them. But this 379 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 3: creates all kinds of opportunities for other plants and other 380 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 3: life forms that wouldn't normally thrive in the forest to 381 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 3: have a shot. 382 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the paper that I came across was talking 383 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 2: about sort of like the pros and cons. I have 384 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 2: another one I'll get into about some of the potential benefits, 385 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: but just to give you a full idea of sort 386 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: of the rodent altered landscape we're talking about here, I 387 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: was looking at a twenty fifteen paper published in IOP 388 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: conference series or presented in the IOP conference series Earth 389 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 2: and Environmental Science. This one is this was by Raskova 390 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 2: to Mina at All, and they talk about some of 391 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 2: the positive and negative consequences, at least initially stressing some 392 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 2: of the negatives maybe that are not at least instantly 393 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: discussed as much. But you get soil overwetting obviously, because 394 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 2: you're getting flooding occurrently that occurs, you also can have 395 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: water stagnation that results in lack of oxygen, high carbon concentration, 396 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 2: and the death of many aquatic organisms. And then the 397 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 2: flooding can also cause vegetation death. But at the same time, 398 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 2: the authors are stressed that it can result in a 399 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 2: rise in the biodiversity of water organisms. So you know, 400 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 2: they're changing everything. They're changing the balance of the local ecosystem, 401 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 2: and it's creating a lot of opportunities for new things, 402 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 2: but it is also cutting things short for things that 403 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 2: we're living there already. Now, a really interesting study that 404 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 2: I came across this was a twenty twenty two Stanford 405 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 2: study by Dewey at All published in Nature Communications, And 406 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 2: in this paper they point out that beaver habitat ranges 407 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 2: in the US are going to continue to widen with 408 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 2: warming temperatures driven by climate change, but the benefits of 409 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: their dam building will actually quote overshadow climate extremes quote. 410 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 2: So this is not to say beaver dams will cancel 411 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 2: out climate change or anything like that, but in some 412 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: respects it kind of lessens the blow specifically as far 413 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 2: as water quality in mountain watersheds are concerned. Beaver dams 414 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 2: can raise water levels upstream and divert water into soil 415 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 2: and surrounding waterways, and this ends up sort of, This 416 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 2: ends up like creating a robust filter system, a filtration 417 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 2: system for excess nutrients and contaminants for the water before 418 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 2: it passes on downstream. So today beaver's in North American 419 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 2: Eurasia are both doing great. They have bounced back from 420 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: near extinction due to hunting, and we may touch on 421 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 2: some of that a little bit more in the next episode, 422 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: but because there are a few different reasons that have 423 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 2: driven beaver hunting over the years. But to go back 424 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 2: to speaking of their construction of dams and their changing 425 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: of the environment, there's another great illustration I came across 426 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 2: by Nicholas Defer, who lives sixteen forty six through seventeen twenty, 427 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 2: and this is just a small scene from a larger map. 428 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 2: He was a French cartographer, so this illustration is just 429 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 2: filling in some of the blank spaces, like we've discussed 430 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 2: before on some of these older maps. But this illustration 431 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 2: shows beavers at work. They are downing trees and they 432 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 2: are dragging off the wood to build things. The beavers 433 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 2: themselves look largely accurate. There may be a little more 434 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: bear like, but the basic morphology is there. The main 435 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 2: problems here are that, first of all, there's like, you know, 436 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 2: one hundred beavers in this one image, like they're working 437 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 2: as an army. And then also like clearly there wasn't 438 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: a lot of detail on how they carry the wood, 439 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 2: because the central beav that you see is standing up 440 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 2: in a bipedal posture with an armload of wood thrown 441 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: over his shoulder like a human being. 442 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, like a Paul Bunyon carrying an axe. 443 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. 444 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 2: But I like the spirit of industry that they captured here, 445 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: despite some of the ridiculous details, and again a huge 446 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 2: improvement over some illustrations from previous centuries. 447 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 3: I wonder is this one of the maps we looked 448 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 3: at in our Horror Vakae episodes where we were talking 449 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 3: about maps with excessive illustrations. 450 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 2: I don't believe it is. I looked at a bigger 451 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 2: version of the map and I almost included it in 452 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 2: our notes, and I don't think I had seen it before. 453 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: It was a map that it's known as the Beaver map. 454 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 2: And has to do with the locations of beavers, because 455 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 2: it has to do with the hunting of beavers, which 456 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: again was quite a big industry for a while there, 457 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 2: so big that it just about wiped them out. So 458 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 2: the large semi aquatic rodents have come to flood the 459 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 2: world and to remake it according to their designs. But 460 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 2: the weirdness and the complexity doesn't stop there. Joe tell 461 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 2: us a little bit about beaver society and about beaver 462 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 2: tool use. 463 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, Rob, I think you found one of these papers first, 464 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 3: and that's what started this whole thing. But I got 465 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 3: lost on a going down a rabbit hole or maybe 466 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 3: a beaver canal, trying to search out examples of possible 467 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 3: tool use documented in beavers, and in fact, there are 468 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 3: a few very interesting different observations corresponding to each of 469 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 3: the extant species. Beavers clearly are an interesting type of 470 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 3: animal to look at for signs of tool using intelligence, 471 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 3: since they are masters of manipulating their environment through the 472 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 3: dams and the lodges they build. Though I think it's 473 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 3: interesting that nest building is often not typically thought of 474 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 3: or not sort of front of mind as an example 475 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 3: of tool use, and there are different examples the different 476 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 3: zoologists or animal behavior experts will use to try to 477 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 3: define tool use. So in the papers I was looking at, 478 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 3: a few different standards were cited. One is a definition 479 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 3: of tool use by a researcher named Alcock, who says 480 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 3: it is quote the manipulation of an inanimate object that 481 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 3: improves the organism's efficiency in altering the position or form 482 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 3: of some other object. So, you know, using an inanimate 483 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 3: object from the environment to better alter the former position 484 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 3: of something else. Another definition I've found cited this is 485 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 3: from Beck in nineteen eighty quote the external employment of 486 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 3: an unattached environmental object to alter more efficiently the form, position, 487 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 3: or condition of another object, another organism, or the user 488 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 3: itself when the user holds or carries the tool during 489 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 3: or just prior to use, and is responsible for the 490 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 3: proper and effective orientation of the tool. Now, I appreciate 491 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 3: all of the conditions on that, because I think it 492 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 3: is important for people to be specific about what they're 493 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 3: talking about when they look for examples of tool use. 494 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 3: But I also wonder, once you're specifying that many conditions, 495 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 3: is the category of tool use becoming more like a 496 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 3: function of the definition you lay out than a fundamentally 497 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 3: different type of activity itself than some other activity that 498 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: wouldn't quite fit this definition. 499 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and sometimes we can almost get too 500 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 2: hung up, I think, on the on the idea of 501 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: tool use and the definition of tool use, because we'll 502 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: look at the most complicated burden, nest or bower that 503 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 2: you can imagine and will be like, well, it's intricate, 504 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 2: it's amazing, it's beautiful. But have you seen this monkey 505 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: stabbing a smaller monkey with a stick? You know, it's 506 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 2: you know, it can almost you can almost set it 507 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: up as this this thing that is the thing that 508 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: we do. You know, that is a very there's something 509 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: very human about tool use, and you know, obviously a huge, 510 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 2: huge aspect of human life and human development. But yeah, 511 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 2: it seems like at times a lot of extra mental 512 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 2: gymnastics has to be utilized in order to even discuss it. 513 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 3: So I'm not going to get super hung up on 514 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 3: definitions of tool use or what really counts as tool 515 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 3: use today. We've talked about some of those debates in 516 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 3: plenty of episodes in the past. Instead, I'm just going 517 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 3: to like talk about some studies describing specific behaviors and 518 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 3: you can make up your own mind about whether it 519 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 3: seems like tool use to you. So the first thing 520 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 3: I want to talk about is an older observation. It's 521 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 3: older than either of the two papers that I'm going 522 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: to discuss here, but it's cited in the first of them, 523 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 3: and I'll get to that paper itself in the second. 524 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 3: But the observation is that a researcher named Georgio Pilleri 525 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 3: observes something interesting while studying two captive beavers at the 526 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 3: Burn Brain Anatomy Institute in nineteen eighty. So, the beavers 527 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 3: were living in a concrete pool that was supplied with 528 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 3: a constant flow of fresh water, and overflow of this 529 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 3: pool was routed away through a series of three drain holes, 530 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 3: each zero point eight centimeters in diameters little holes, And 531 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 3: the beavers had been given a supply of sticks and 532 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 3: twigs to do what they wanted with, and for some reason, 533 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 3: what they did is they selected and cut three sticks 534 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 3: from their supply to the exact dimensions needed to plug 535 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 3: the tiny drain holes that where water drained away from 536 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 3: their pool, and this completely stopped the flow of water 537 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 3: away from the pool. Now, what's going on here? At first, 538 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 3: It was kind of hard for me to believe this 539 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 3: would be fully intentional behavior, as in, like the beavers 540 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 3: understood that they were plugging the drains to stop the 541 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 3: flow of water from their enclosure. But then I thought, 542 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 3: you know, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if beaver 543 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 3: have like a sense for detecting gaps in dams and 544 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 3: plugging them, Like maybe they're good at sensing. My first 545 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 3: instinct was maybe they sense like the delta pee, you know, 546 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 3: the difference in pressure, like when water from a large 547 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 3: pool is flowing out of a small pipe or hole, 548 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 3: and you could feel that pressure that would like get 549 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 3: your hands stuck to the hole if you held it there, 550 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 3: or which in larger scenarios can be of a great 551 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 3: danger to divers. You know, you don't want to go 552 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 3: near like the intake hole and a dam if you're 553 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,959 Speaker 3: diving near it. I thought, maybe they sensed the delta pee, 554 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 3: and so they sense that and they naturally want to 555 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 3: plug it up. But I didn't know. However, I then 556 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 3: sort of came across an answer. So I was watching 557 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 3: a segment on North American beavers from BBC Earth, narrated 558 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 3: by David Attenborough, and this documentary segment captured a scene 559 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 3: of beavers finding a leak in their dam and then 560 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 3: getting right to work retrieving wood, vegetation and clumps of 561 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 3: ediment down from the bottom of the pond to plug 562 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 3: up the leak in the dam where water was running 563 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 3: over the top, and Attenborough in this documentary segment narrates 564 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 3: that beavers are thought to detect these leaks by hearing 565 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 3: the sound of trickling water, and when they do, they 566 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 3: begin repair work almost immediately. So it seems to be fastidious, 567 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 3: almost compulsive, this compulsive desire to fix the holes when 568 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 3: they hear the water trickling, and this would make the 569 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 3: drain plugging behavior in the concrete enclosure in the eighties 570 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 3: make a lot more sense. So I decided to look 571 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 3: into this further to see if this was indeed true 572 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 3: to some degree. It seems it is, and so I 573 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 3: didn't have time. This was soon before we started recording. 574 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 3: I didn't have time to find the primary reference on this, 575 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 3: but I did find a good twenty fifteen Gizmoto blog 576 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 3: post by Esther inglis Arkele writing up summarizing the research 577 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 3: of a Swedish zoologist named Lars Wilson, who studied beavers 578 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 3: back in the nineteen sixties, and according to the summary, 579 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 3: Lars Wilson found that dam building was instinctual rather than learned, 580 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 3: and the way Wilson identified with this was that if 581 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 3: you took young beavers and you separated them from their 582 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 3: parents at birth, they would still build dams basically the 583 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 3: same way, using the same techniques as their parents, even 584 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 3: though they were clearly not having the opportunity to be 585 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 3: taught to do that. So it seems based on that 586 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 3: at least this is probably a routine behavior. It's based 587 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 3: on beaver DNA. They don't have to be taught. But 588 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 3: Wilson also found that beavers didn't always build dams. In 589 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 3: environments with still water or only very gently moving water, 590 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 3: dam building was not a priority. The beavers would just 591 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 3: maybe they like dig a hole in the mud and 592 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 3: just chill there, you know, they just wouldn't build. And 593 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 3: so by manipulating different variables, Wilson identified the sound of 594 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 3: trickling water as the primary trigger for dam building, even 595 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 3: to the point of a discovery that I this was 596 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 3: the part I found most fascinating. If you put a 597 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,479 Speaker 3: speaker in the beaver's enclosure and you played the sound 598 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 3: of trickling water through it, the beavers would go to 599 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 3: the speaker and start building on top of it. They 600 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 3: would start piling up sticks and mud and branches over 601 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 3: the speaker playing the water sounds. They were trying to 602 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 3: plug the speaker to make it stop leaking. 603 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. 604 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 3: Wilson also found that if outflow pipes, so you had 605 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 3: a place where there was actually water leading away from 606 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 3: the from the pool, but you carefully designed the pipe 607 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 3: so that they made no noise, the beavers would not 608 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 3: be able to find and cover them. So this might 609 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 3: lead you to think, okay, so like the louder the 610 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 3: rushing of the water, the more beavers want to make 611 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 3: a damn there. But it also seems like it's not 612 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 3: quite that simple, because I was reading a news article 613 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 3: from the Harvard Graduate School of the Arts and Sciences 614 00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,760 Speaker 3: called Damned if They Do by Paul Massari. This article 615 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 3: profiles the research of an environmental engineer named Jordan Kennedy 616 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 3: who has done research on beavers and their dam building 617 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 3: practices and the environmental effects thereof. And Kennedy says that 618 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 3: it can't just be about like the magnitude of sound 619 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 3: of moving water, or beavers would be trying to build 620 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 3: dams across Niagara Falls, you know, just like loud, violent, 621 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 3: rushing waters where building would be totally impractical. So instead, 622 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 3: there's got to be a kind of Goldilocks zone for 623 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 3: damn construction, something that the beavers naturally detect that allows 624 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 3: them to know, Okay, this is about the right amount 625 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 3: of flow to try to dam up. 626 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, damming up Niagara Falls. Like obviously that would 627 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 2: be great, Like that's kind of like the beaver fan fiction, 628 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 2: that's the pipe drain, But is it practical. No, you 629 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 2: need to have that just the right environment that can 630 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 2: then be manipulated to make the ideal environment for the beaver. 631 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 3: Right, So the author of this article right now, it's quote, 632 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 3: the water in a beaver's habitat needs to be a 633 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 3: certain depth, for instance, to keep a food cash from 634 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 3: freezing to the bottom in winter and to enable them 635 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 3: to evade predators. The plants that beavers prefer to eat 636 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 3: flourish best when water flows at a certain velocity. So 637 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 3: you're looking for this Goldilocks zone, an area of a 638 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 3: certain amount of water flow, maybe a certain narrowness of 639 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 3: the channel or certain depth of the channel and that's 640 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 3: the place where you want to dam it up. And 641 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 3: beavers apparently they locate that A big part of the 642 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 3: sense data informing them of that area appears to be sound. 643 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 3: Maybe the overwhelming part of it is sound, but there 644 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 3: may be other cues as well, And so I don't know. 645 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 3: I thought this was so interesting, And I'm just trying 646 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 3: to imagine what it's like to be a beaver to 647 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:54,720 Speaker 3: have this powerful instinctual drive to plug leaks. So imagine 648 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 3: the same kind of base level instinctual drive that humans 649 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 3: might have for sex, or for food, or to care 650 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 3: for children, all the like the most powerful drives in 651 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 3: our brains. But there's a drive like that to hunt 652 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 3: down the source of anything that sounds like trickling water 653 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 3: and to just plug it with junk. You know, I 654 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 3: don't know, that's like that's another that's another type of 655 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 3: mind experience or relationship to the environment. 656 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 2: Wow wow, yeah, Like what would yeah, how would like 657 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 2: we can't help but extravolate that into like a a 658 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 2: human like intellect and human like culture, Like what would 659 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,760 Speaker 2: advance beaver civilization be? Like? Would they actually go after 660 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 2: like complete inundation, like a complete flooding situation, the destruction 661 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 2: of of of all naturally occurring waterfalls, or would they 662 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 2: just kind of dream about it? Or what would their 663 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,280 Speaker 2: TV shows be? Would it just be like countless channels 664 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 2: of leak plugging and so forth. 665 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 3: The speaver thought she had it all, but then she 666 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 3: heard the trickle and couldn't find it searching, Like all 667 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 3: dramas begin with the conflict of hearing a trickle. 668 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 2: That's the called adventure. 669 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, but anyway, all that stuff I just read about 670 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,919 Speaker 3: got kicked off because I was reading that anecdote about 671 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,919 Speaker 3: the findings of Giorgio Pillari in nineteen eighty three, which 672 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 3: was cited in a paper by D. M. Barnes called 673 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 3: Possible tool use by beaver's Castor canadensis in a Northern 674 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 3: Ontario watershed published in The Canadian Field Naturalist in two 675 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 3: thousand and five. So this is one of the main 676 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 3: two papers I was looking at about possible cases of 677 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 3: tool use in beaver's Barnes says that this report is 678 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 3: based on evidence relating to the North American beaver that's 679 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 3: Castor candidensis at a remote damn site in the Chapleaux 680 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 3: Crown Game Preserve in northern Ontario. The author says, at 681 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 3: this location they found a clump of willow stems, so 682 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 3: like little small tree trunks that had been cut by beavers. 683 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 3: But the fascinating thing was they were cut at the 684 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 3: extraordinary height of approximately one meter off the ground. Beavers 685 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 3: are not that tall Normally, these beavers cut at an 686 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 3: average height of about thirty centimeters, so the beavers were 687 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 3: chomping off these willow trees at three times the normal 688 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 3: height they could reach with their teeth. Barnes writes, quote, 689 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 3: I made a careful examination of the area and found 690 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 3: that there was no apparent way the beavers could have 691 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 3: cut the stems at such a height. When I studied 692 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 3: the willow clump more closely, I noted that there was 693 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 3: a freshly cut willow stem approximately twelve centimeters in diameter, 694 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 3: leaning against the main stem of the willow clump. Its 695 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,280 Speaker 3: approximate angle was forty five degrees. In addition, I observed 696 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 3: cutting at both ends of the leaning willow segment, and 697 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 3: then there was a There was a photo accompanying this 698 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 3: in the article. Now, at first the author thought that, okay, 699 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 3: so this is a log propped up forty five degrees 700 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 3: against the tree that is cut off very tall. The 701 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 3: author thought, maybe this log there had simply fallen that way. 702 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 3: I don't know, it's something that the beaver cut and 703 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 3: then it fell. But that seemed impossible on further examination, 704 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 3: because the log was clearly from a different tree than 705 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 3: the stem it was leaning against, like there was different 706 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 3: bark texture and color and so forth, and its position 707 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 3: just did not seem plausible if it had fallen from above. 708 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 3: Another possibility the author considered was that these willow trunks 709 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 3: had been foraged while there was heavy snow on the 710 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,479 Speaker 3: ground in the winter. So maybe the beavers were able 711 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 3: to reach a meter up the trunks of these trees 712 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 3: by crawling around on top of the snow. 713 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 2: Okay, but the. 714 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 3: Author things that's really unlikely given the position of the 715 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 3: willow clump relative to the beaver dam and lodge and 716 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 3: its entrance and exit. It seems it would have required 717 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 3: a major overland journey by the beavers on the top 718 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 3: of the snow in the winter at a time where 719 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 3: this just would not fit with their normal behavior. Instead, 720 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 3: the author suggests that maybe what happened here is the 721 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 3: beaver used a prop. The beaver used a piece of 722 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 3: a log that it had cut off at both ends 723 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 3: and propped it up against the base of the trees, 724 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 3: and then climbed up that and was able to chew 725 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 3: off the willow stems at an upper level rather than 726 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 3: a lower level. Now, why would this even be beneficial? 727 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 3: The author says this would be probably to reduce foraging time. 728 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 3: So the longer you forage, number one, the more thermal 729 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 3: stress you're exposed to not being the right temperature, but 730 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 3: more importantly, the longer you are exposed to predation. Apparently 731 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 3: beavers do not like to spend a lot of time 732 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,399 Speaker 3: out on the ground out of the water. They were 733 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,239 Speaker 3: trying to hustle as fast as they can whenever they're 734 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 3: out there cutting, and in this case, apparently using a 735 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 3: cut stem to climb up the willow trunks to access 736 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 3: a higher up part of the tree to chew through 737 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 3: would have meant that they had to spend less time 738 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,280 Speaker 3: chewing and less time cutting. 739 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 2: All right, So they go like a little bit higher. 740 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,320 Speaker 2: They just it's going to be less it's going to 741 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,879 Speaker 2: be a narrower bit of wood to chew through. 742 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,720 Speaker 3: That's what I assumed. It didn't specify exactly why cutting 743 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 3: higher up was reduced foraging time. But that was my interpretation. 744 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 2: I could be wrong, and that's why they potentially could 745 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,439 Speaker 2: be using essentially a beaver ladder a beaver bit of scaffolding. 746 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 3: Right, but we don't know. This is just one observation. 747 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 3: And also they didn't see them doing it. They just 748 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,760 Speaker 3: found this strange piece of scaffolding there later. 749 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 2: Yeah. More mysteries related to and I mean, I guess 750 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 2: this is kind of cutting into some of the mysteries 751 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 2: involved in these wildly inaccurate depictions of beavers, is that 752 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 2: these are creatures that live of often in very rural situations, 753 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 2: far from human activity. They're probably doing it at night, 754 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 2: and they're spending as little time necessary doing it out 755 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 2: where other eyes could see them. 756 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,479 Speaker 3: Right, Okay. Second paper I came across alleging possible tool 757 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 3: use behaviors by beavers. This is called tool use in 758 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 3: a display behavior by Eurasian beavers or castor fiber in 759 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 3: the journal Animal Cognition by Thompson at All in two 760 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 3: thousand and seven. So here the authors write that documentation 761 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,800 Speaker 3: of tool use is relatively rare in rodents, and prior 762 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,120 Speaker 3: to this paper there were no documented cases. They knew 763 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 3: of of tools being used by rodents in what are 764 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 3: called agonistic displays. Now, agonistic is a word used in 765 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 3: the study of animal behavior to describe conflict or fighting. 766 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 3: So an agonistic behavior is not necessarily fighting itself, but 767 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 3: also could include social behaviors related to fighting. So these 768 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 3: would include threat displays, trying to look big or otherwise 769 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 3: intimidate another animal, displays of aggression, as well as things 770 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 3: like submission or retreat behavior. The authors of this paper 771 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 3: say that in their field observations of the Eurasian beaver, 772 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,319 Speaker 3: they witnessed a behavior that they call stick display, which 773 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 3: they interpreted as an agonistic display behavior. And what this 774 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 3: consisted of is beaver would go pick up an object, 775 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 3: usually a stick, whenever a stick was available, and then 776 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 3: it would rise up on its hind legs and then 777 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,840 Speaker 3: move the upper body rapidly up and down while holding 778 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 3: the stick or other object in its mouth and front paws. 779 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 3: And Rabi attached a picture for you to look at. 780 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 3: They had a photo of this. In this photo of 781 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 3: the beaver is in the shallow part of a waterway. 782 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 3: It's standing up on its back legs. It's kind of 783 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 3: I don't know how to it's kind of like roaring posture. 784 00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:58,879 Speaker 3: But it's got a big old stick in its mouth, 785 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,560 Speaker 3: and it's gripping the dick with its two four paws, 786 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 3: and the water is splashing all around. It's the stick, 787 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 3: I guess, rapidly dips in and out. 788 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 2: It's impressive, and it's it's frankly a little intimidating. This 789 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 2: this beaver saying, behold, look at the at the feats 790 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,360 Speaker 2: of strength I am capable of. 791 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 3: So several observations about this behavior. First of all, they say, 792 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 3: beaver's only picked up these display sticks or other objects 793 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 3: at the same location where they were used, and they 794 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,799 Speaker 3: were never seen modifying the objects, So it wouldn't It 795 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 3: wasn't like they would carry a stick around and then 796 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,760 Speaker 3: and then use it in a different location or modify 797 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:35,800 Speaker 3: the stick in any way. 798 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 2: So, for instance, compare it to like human tool use 799 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 2: that we've discussed in the past. Rocks. This this would 800 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 2: not be on the level of picking out favored rocks 801 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,919 Speaker 2: for throwing at other humans, polishing them, changing them, etc. 802 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,760 Speaker 2: This would be more on the level of when threatened, 803 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 2: you might look down, grab a rock and use it. 804 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 2: Though of course, in this case, the beavers are not 805 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 2: hitting each other with the sticks. Allegedly, the hypothesis here 806 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 2: is that they're using them as a pure defensive display. 807 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,719 Speaker 3: Right. Second thing. This often happened in shallow water, so 808 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,319 Speaker 3: the shaking of the stick would cause splashing in the 809 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 3: surrounding water, but occasionally it also took place on dry land, 810 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 3: such as in weeds, where there was no significant sound produced. 811 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,320 Speaker 3: So the authors think because it took place in both 812 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 3: scenarios and when it was on dry land it didn't 813 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 3: really make a noise, they think it is primarily a 814 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,200 Speaker 3: visual signal. An important bit of context is that Eurasian 815 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 3: beavers are territorial. They live in family groups with usually 816 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 3: a dominant breeding pair and then assorted offspring of that 817 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 3: breeding pair, and they defend the borders of their territory 818 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,320 Speaker 3: from encroachment by other beavers. So they mark their territory 819 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,000 Speaker 3: by scent. This is done with secretions from the anal 820 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 3: glands or castorium. Which castorium, I believe, we'll talk about 821 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 3: more later in the series in part two allegedly smells 822 00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 3: like vanilla, but we'll come back. When rival beavers come 823 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 3: into a family group's territory, the home turf beavers will 824 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 3: react first of all with tail slapping. Rob you mentioned this. 825 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 3: This is a loud signal that beavers make by repeatedly 826 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 3: smacking the water surface with their tails. This is also 827 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 3: used to alert members of the family group when a 828 00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:20,320 Speaker 3: predator is cited. They also respond to unwelcome beaver presence 829 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 3: by visual displays or sometimes with actual fighting, though physical 830 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,799 Speaker 3: fights are relatively rare. The observations carried out in this 831 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:33,640 Speaker 3: study were conducted on wild Eurasian beavers in southeast Telemark, Norway. Overall, 832 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 3: the researchers observed one hundred and thirty one cases of 833 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 3: stick display behavior that met the criteria for inclusion in 834 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,880 Speaker 3: their study, by four adult males, two adult females, and 835 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:51,160 Speaker 3: five unidentified animals. However, it seems that some individual beavers 836 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,040 Speaker 3: engaged in stick displays far more than the others. 837 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 2: Quote. 838 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 3: It was clear from our observations that one female beer 839 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,440 Speaker 3: and one male Froda where the main performers, with a 840 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,399 Speaker 3: contribution of fifty one point nine percent and thirty five 841 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 3: point nine percent, respectively of the total number of stick 842 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 3: displays observed. So what does that add up to. It's 843 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 3: like eighty seven percent of stick displays were from. 844 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,360 Speaker 2: Two beavers Wow, go Froda. 845 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,760 Speaker 3: But the real champion is beer Get here. She's got 846 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 3: more than half of them just under her belt. 847 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean really, beer Get needs to get 848 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,120 Speaker 2: get most of the credit here for Froda doing pretty 849 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 2: well as well. 850 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 3: So they say. Stick displays happened almost exclusively at the 851 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:38,640 Speaker 3: borders of beaver family group territory, and most displays appear 852 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 3: to be directed at rivals. The displays were often preceded 853 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,280 Speaker 3: by scent marking, so this kind of suggests it probably 854 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 3: is being used as an agonistic display. However, this behavior, 855 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 3: while common in the groups observed in this study, is 856 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,360 Speaker 3: not necessarily generalizable to the total world population of these beavers. 857 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,880 Speaker 3: It has not really been observed in beavers generally across 858 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,560 Speaker 3: the full range, suggesting it may be specific to certain populations. 859 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,239 Speaker 2: Wow like even some like some sort of like localized 860 00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 2: beaver culture. 861 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe apparently something. At the time of the study, 862 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,600 Speaker 3: the author said there were some isolated reports of similar 863 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 3: behavior in a few North American beavers, but not most, 864 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,880 Speaker 3: and it was not found in all Eurasian beavers either. 865 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 3: So the authors argue that stick displays might be especially 866 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,920 Speaker 3: favored in high pressure situations. From reading their description of 867 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,800 Speaker 3: the of the area. It seems like the groups observed 868 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:41,279 Speaker 3: in this study might be in especially crowded beaver territory, 869 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,440 Speaker 3: where like, you know, the areas around different family dams 870 00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,000 Speaker 3: and lodge sites are sort of all butting up against 871 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,920 Speaker 3: one another. They also observed higher rates of stick displays 872 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,319 Speaker 3: in springtime, meaning it's possible it could have some association 873 00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,680 Speaker 3: with breeding. But if the stick shaking is a genuine 874 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:05,719 Speaker 3: agonistic display behavior, the evolutionary purpose would probably be to 875 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,680 Speaker 3: convey honest information about the beaver's size and strength. So 876 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 3: it's like, I'm big and strong. Look at how I 877 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,880 Speaker 3: can shake this stick. You don't want to bother actually 878 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 3: getting into a fight with me, right, we don't have 879 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:17,200 Speaker 3: to do this. 880 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,959 Speaker 2: I like these sort of levels of communication that seem 881 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,319 Speaker 2: to exist between beaver groups here. You know, It's like, 882 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,399 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, all beavers really want 883 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,000 Speaker 2: to do is build things and plug holes. You know, 884 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 2: they have they have a lot of hole plugging to do. 885 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,719 Speaker 2: They have they have a lot of work to accomplish. 886 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,439 Speaker 2: They don't really have time to get into these fights. 887 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,720 Speaker 2: These fights are just would be destructive. So instead, let's 888 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 2: just make sure that we're very clear about how everyone 889 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,279 Speaker 2: feels about these these border scenarios, and if need be, 890 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,000 Speaker 2: let me just show you, give you a taste of 891 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 2: what could happen. Just look at this stick lifting ability here. 892 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,840 Speaker 3: The neighbors are getting nosy, and Beer get shakes a 893 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 3: branch and it's like, no, don't make me do it. 894 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,040 Speaker 3: Don't make me do it. And it seems most of 895 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,080 Speaker 3: the time they're like, Okay, I won't make you do it, 896 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 3: Beer gat Man. I think we've got to be out 897 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,000 Speaker 3: of time for part one of Beaver's here, right, but 898 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:12,839 Speaker 3: there will be more. 899 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, in the next episode, we're gonna we're going to 900 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,960 Speaker 2: get back to that idea, that that false idea of 901 00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,800 Speaker 2: beavers whilst being hunted deciding to chew their own testicles 902 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,839 Speaker 2: off again that you see various examples of, particularly from 903 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,279 Speaker 2: like illuminated manuscripts and so forth and bestiaries. We'll come 904 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,759 Speaker 2: back and to discuss that, plus who knows what else 905 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,840 Speaker 2: we'll uncover about beavers in our research. In the meantime, 906 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,520 Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from everyone out there if you 907 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,319 Speaker 2: have any especially since a lot of times we do 908 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,279 Speaker 2: these Tuesdays to Thursday. This one's going to be a 909 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 2: Thursday to Tuesday, so who knows, you might be able 910 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 2: to get some really core beaver facts and beaver experiences 911 00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,400 Speaker 2: into us before we record the next episode. You know, 912 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,920 Speaker 2: something you've picked up somewhere or just you know, accounts 913 00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,520 Speaker 2: of observing beavers in the wild. I'd love to hear 914 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,879 Speaker 2: about that. So, whatever your feedback, whatever your thoughts, share 915 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,759 Speaker 2: them with us. We would love to hear from you. 916 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,400 Speaker 2: Just a reminder that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is 917 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,759 Speaker 2: a science podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, 918 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,040 Speaker 2: so look for those in the Stuff to Blow your 919 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 2: Mind podcast feed wherever you get your podcasts. On Mondays 920 00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,719 Speaker 2: we do a listener mail episode. On Wednesdays we do 921 00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,839 Speaker 2: a short form artifact or monster fact episode. I know 922 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,600 Speaker 2: sometimes people say I wish they were longer, Well they're short. 923 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,759 Speaker 2: That's part of how it works. But occasionally we're going 924 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,640 Speaker 2: to put out We're going to continue to experiment, experiment 925 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,880 Speaker 2: with putting out omnibus episodes that may take up like 926 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 2: multiple related monster facts or artifacts and put them out 927 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,200 Speaker 2: so periodically you'll get a longer one in there as well. 928 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,560 Speaker 2: So yeah, let us know if you're liking that, and 929 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,560 Speaker 2: we can keep doing it. Oh, and then on Fridays 930 00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,040 Speaker 2: we set aside most serious concerns to just talk about 931 00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,040 Speaker 2: a weird movie on Weird House Cinema. 932 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,680 Speaker 3: Huge thanks to our audio producer JJ Posway. If you 933 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,800 Speaker 3: would like to get in touch with us with feedback 934 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,480 Speaker 3: on this episode or any other, to suggest topic for 935 00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,800 Speaker 3: the future, or just to say hello, you can email 936 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:13,439 Speaker 3: us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 937 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,400 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 938 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,320 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 939 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:36,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.