WEBVTT - Debunking Muscle Myths with Casey Johnston! 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.200 You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:19.480 and iHeartRadio. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.119 Guess what, Mango? What's that will? Are we going to 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:28.160 do a history lesson? I know you love going back 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.600 in time. We're going to nineteen sixty. We're talking about 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.800 John F. Kennedy. Now, this was just weeks before his inauguration. 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.199 He actually wrote an article for Sports Illustrated and the 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:42.360 headline was the soft American. Now. In this article, he 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.080 called physical vigor one of the country's most important resources, 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.480 and he actually lamented the decline of physical fitness among 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:50.640 all of America's youth. 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.120 First of all, I didn't know he wrote for magazines 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.360 that I didn't previously say. But I mean, what was 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:59.880 this like a splashy way of introducing new health policy 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:02.240 or was he just trying to check in on how 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:03.520 many chin ups every kid could do? 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.000 I mean it kind of was like he did talk 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.520 about plans to expand new physical education programs in schools, 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.240 which he later did, and that was through the President's 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:15.880 Council on Physical Fitness. I don't know if you remember 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.400 these tests. It was always the pull ups that just 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:20.720 killed me. I just I couldn't do it. And so 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:25.240 ultimately couldn't get whatever that ultimate star was when you 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.559 passed the test. But what JFK was really talking about 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.600 was the Cold War. He actually argued that in order 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.760 to take on the threat of communism, Americans needed to 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:35.679 get stronger. 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:36.600 I love it. 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.400 I did doing more push ups to save democracy. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.520 I mean, that's what they're there for. And it is 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.160 funny in retrospect to to look at all this, but 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.240 it's also interesting to see how things like politics and 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.440 cultural attitudes, even media and celebrities, these can all influence 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.240 the way we think about physical strength, and believe it 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.000 or not, that's been the case of the United States 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.480 for hundreds of years. So today on the show, Maria 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.800 is speaking with author Casey Johnston got a new book 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.240 called A Physical Education. Now it's this blend of science, 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.840 reporting and memoir, you know, the kind of thing we 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.360 love around here, and I can't wait to hear what 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:14.680 she has to say about the history of strength training 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.400 and how to get stronger and how getting stronger changed 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:19.960 her life. So let's die down. 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.399 So Casey, thank you so much for coming on. We're 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.000 very excited to have you on part time genius. I've 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.600 been reading your work for a long time. I am 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.520 an amateur jym goer, I would say, And at the 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.200 end of this interview, I think I'd like to do 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.440 a little bit of pep talking to people who don't 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.440 know or feel like they don't know what to do 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.880 in a gym. But I want to get started at 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.840 the beginning. And I'm talking chronologically because one of the 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.280 most fascinating parts of your book to me was how 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.120 weightlifting and gyms became a thing. 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.600 And I'd never even thought about this, but it actually. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.680 Came from some very specific fields of thought that had 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.960 a lot of political and religious context. So let's go 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.400 back to the nineteenth century. Tell me about the Turner movement. 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.920 I mean, we can trace physical training in one form 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.640 another all the way back like humans have maybe always 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:38.280 done it, and a common starting point for our modern 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.280 training is like Greeks and Romans, you know. So it's 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:43.920 like it goes back. But the place that we can 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.880 situate the modern conception of a gym as a sort 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:52.000 of community center for exercise and physical fitness began with 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.680 the Turners, which were a sort of cultural group in 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.640 Germany in the early eighteen hundreds, started by one man 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:04.320 who ran a center. It's an outdoor plaza called it turnplots, 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.560 this turn terminology sort of referring broadly to gymnastics, but 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.680 they also use dumbells and weights to train with. And 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:16.520 some of the Turners immigrated to the United States and 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:18.960 they brought that with them. They started what were called 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:24.640 Turner halls or turnbarne and they pursued physical fitness, not 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.200 as like this sort of competitive elitist thing, but they 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.680 saw it as a public health contribution to sort of 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:36.160 help raise the floor of physical capability for their community. 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.919 They didn't like the sort of American conception of competition. 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.600 This was about this. It had a much more socialist approach. 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:45.480 But of course here in the United States, we don't 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:50.600 like socialism, but we do like Protestant work ethic. So 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.240 then it seems like once the Turners came here there 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.960 was this other kind of field of thought about why 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:01.039 working out and gaining strength was act actually sort of 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:05.039 in line with Christian values, right, So how did that 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:06.240 get involved? 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:12.040 There was the YMCA associations. Young Men's Christian Association was 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.279 a concept that existed relatively early in the eighteen hundreds. 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.280 It did not initially have a gym component at all. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.279 It was just sort of a gathering place for young 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.799 Christian men and they saw what the turners were doing 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.440 and were like, we want that. We literally want this 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.320 concept of like a physical training center because there was 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:36.400 this growing assertion that Christians were not physically robust enough, 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.599 especially the men, so they wanted to buff them up 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.080 quote unquote in service to God. I mean, this all 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.400 becomes like a way of keeping them focused on their 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:50.800 physical perfectibility, keeping them at work in service of God. 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:52.919 So they were like, this is a type of pressure 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.680 we can put on them to be physically fit. So 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.359 that became the muscular Christianity movement, and. 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:01.600 That's an actual term. That was an actual term, was 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:03.000 muscular Christianity. 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.960 Yeah, it doesn't have it's I mean, there's not a 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.080 lot of really formal study about a lot of this stuff, 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.880 but it's like a it's conceptually doesn't have a strong 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.240 beginning or end or like a very particular leader. But 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.479 it became a sort of dovetail of these two cultures 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:24.240 and that sort of snowballed into Eventually we had physical 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:29.919 fitness tests and exams for military organizations, then paramilitary organizations, 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:34.520 fascists adopted these physical training programs that made them really 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:38.440 fall out of favor among socialists and that crowd, or 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.600 it became distasteful, sort of in the way it is 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:47.200 now where people maybe assume a conservatism or a fixation 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.479 on aesthetics if you participate in this thing. In a 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.760 similar way, they kind of assumed you were a fascist 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.839 of you if you trained physically in this way back 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.200 during the World Wars, because the Italian Army was doing it, 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.480 the German Army was doing it. I've started to say 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.640 these things are these are tools, neutral tools, but they 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.800 develop these associations based on who's using them and how 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:10.520 they're using them. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.240 So when you step into a gym and pick up 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.480 a barbelle, you're actually engaging with this incredible history and 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.640 social political context that I think most people just don't 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:21.480 even think about. 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:22.640 We take it for granted. 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.160 But I guess my other question is, you know, there's 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.440 this idea of bodybuilding. We think about someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger, 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.080 who became such a cultural icon. 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:33.880 Where did bodybuilding come from? 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.880 Yeah, I mean an interesting thing is that bodybuilding the 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.600 YMCA sort of coined that term. They brought that into 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.680 the picture of physical training. But there's like a more 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.280 modern route of bodybuilding as like a pure esthetic pursuit. 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.560 The aesthetic version is the seventies. There are bodybuilders in 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.960 the fifties who are maybe a little bit more oriented 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.880 around these like feats of gymnastic might, throwing each other 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.720 in the air, tumbling and stuff. But they also had 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.760 a particular esthetic that was documented in magazines, and then 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.200 eventually it became more about just the look of these people. 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.320 I think that it's sort of ebbed and flowed over 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.480 the years. But if you go to a certain very 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.800 intense corner of TikTok, there are people who are intensely 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:18.000 pursuing bodybuilding. 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.560 Of course, of course, but it's so interesting to think 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:23.560 that over the years people have gone into this for 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:25.680 all of these different reasons and with all of these 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.520 different goals, whether it's esthetic or military. And yet here 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.600 we are trying to figure out, well, should I pick 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.760 up those dumbbells or not? And we'll talk more about that, 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:37.840 but first we have to take a quick break. We'll 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:57.040 be back with Casey Johnston in just a moment. Welcome 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.840 back to Part Time Genius. We're talking with Casey Johnston, 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.800 author of a physical education and. 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:04.160 I want to talk a little bit, Casey. 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.160 You did such a great job in the book of 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.679 breaking down some of the myths around the science of 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.040 weight training and muscle, and a lot of this is 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.560 stuff that I have seen perpetuated in the media for 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.440 years and years and years. Especially as a female bodied person, 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.439 we are fed all of this. One of the main 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:27.400 myths that you broke down is that women cannot build 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.120 muscle in the same way as men and therefore should 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:34.240 maybe not exercise in the same way. And that's not 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:37.200 actually true, So tell us about that, right. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.080 The sort of pseudoscience around this that I believed that 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:46.480 was circulated and popular magazines and media was that women 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.880 have more of this type of muscle fibers Type one 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.360 they're called, that are quote unquote more suited to cardioactivity. 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.040 They're long and lean, and so women should focus on 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.720 that stuff, whereas men have more type two fibers, which 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:06.319 are used for more powerful, strength oriented movements. So men 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.680 should focus on lifting weights and never the twain shall meet. 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:15.120 In actual fact, it's not anywhere near as divided as 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.040 what I just said would make you think. On average, 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.240 women have I believe the number was seven to twelve 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:25.240 percent more type one muscle fibers than men by proportion, 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.880 So that's like a very small difference. I think I 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:30.960 compared it to a jar of jelly beans in the book, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:32.960 where it's like, if you have one hundred jelly beans 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:34.760 and I have one hundred and seven jelly beans, I 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:36.920 have seven percent more jelly beans than you, But like 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.559 our two jars of jelly beans are probably virtually identical. 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.960 That is not anywhere near enough of a difference to 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:48.560 suggest that these two groups should train completely differently. And 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.840 then there's lots of science around the fact that women 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.680 who train the same as men might not gain as 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.480 much muscle in the absolute, but they will gain twenty 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.200 five percent just as men gain twenty five percent. So 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.440 they are not maybe ending up as big as men are, 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:06.520 but it's because their bodies are smaller. They might be 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:08.920 starting with smaller muscles. But that doesn't mean that they 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:13.199 shouldn't train for strength just because they can't end up 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.600 as strong as a man. Just because a man can 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.959 lift six hundred pounds and a woman can lift four 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.400 hundred pounds at their absolute top of their ability, that 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.720 doesn't mean that it's meaningless by any stretch. For a 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.320 woman to learn to lift that weight. Because we still 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:31.439 get the same type of growth and building those relationship 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:35.199 with our bodies, building up her neurological responses to the stimulus, 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.719 we get all of the same type of great results. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:39.800 So to speak out of it. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.120 Tell me a little bit more about this. You mentioned 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:45.400 it just now briefly the neurological benefits as well. And 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.880 I think this is again something that I have never 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.200 really thought about. When I go to the gym, I'm 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.040 dragging my muscles and my bones around and then I 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.360 haul them out again. But my brain is actually doing 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:56.880 something too. What is it doing? 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:58.360 Why is it good for me? Yeah? 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.000 I think that we have really underestimated the potential for this. 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.840 In all kinds of exercise, we sort of think almost 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.080 as one directional, where it's like your brain sends a 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.199 signal to your muscles, and your muscles do what your 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.240 brain says, but there is a response. There's sort of 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.600 a back and forth between your body and your muscles. 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.040 You're not just training this physical might of your muscles, 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:24.720 You're training them neurologically to work together. There's more communication 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:28.360 happening between your brain and your body in ways that 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.160 we don't even fully understand yet. We're so focused on 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.839 maintaining our brain function in the last maybe like twenty 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.800 years or so with pseudoku, crosswords, all of these things. 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.200 But it's like the stimulus of working out has a 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.440 similar effect. Your brain is getting used, your neurological system 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.800 is getting used when you exercise, and it's like a 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.880 contrasting kind of stimulus too to like the pure brain 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:54.280 activity of say doing a Pseudoka puzzle. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.120 That's really fascinating. I did also learn from your book 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.920 recovery is important. Why shouldn't we just push to the max. 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.120 Why shouldn't we be lifting as much as we can 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:04.000 every single day? 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:08.320 This is something I was completely unaware of going into lifting, 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.959 And when I was exercising for so long as a 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.319 runner and my focus was entirely on doing as much 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.400 exercise as I could, my understanding at that time was 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.880 if I then ate too much food, I had just 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.400 spent all this time running, burning all these calories, and 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.280 it would be quote unquote wasting that workout in order 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.079 to go then eat food. In learning about lifting, I 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.120 learned it's sort of the opposite, is true, And especially 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.120 in lifting, your muscles are actually built when you're resting, 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.760 when you work out, you're doing all of this. We 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.160 referred to it as muscle damage. You're shredding up the 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.480 fibers in your muscles, so to speak. And then when 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.000 you are not lifting, when you give yourself time to 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.080 rest and you give yourself food, especially protein, but also 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.920 you need carbs and fats, your body is repairing those 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.120 muscles to be a little bit stronger than they were before. 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.120 It's re fueling you and sort of restocking your muscles 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.000 with energy, and that's what allows you to lift a 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.240 little more weight the next time. And that's how you 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.280 create progress. That's how you build muscle and especially build 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.719 it back if you've lost it from say, dieting too 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.000 much or too little activity for too long, that sort 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:19.360 of thing. 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:21.240 It makes so much sense when you say it right 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.280 the science. It's very logical, but it's also kind of 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.320 radical when you think about the messaging that especially women 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.720 and girls are given. It's kind of a way to 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.080 change how you see all of that and to question 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:34.720 some of that messaging. 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:35.200 Right. 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.760 I hadn't been aware when I was a runner how 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.840 destructive that cycle was of like exercising and then not 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.480 eating and trying to rest as little as possible. Those 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.080 are all things that are all fighting each other in 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.520 that circle where it's like the less you eat, the 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:53.720 less prepared you are to work out, the more you 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.600 work out, the less you're resting, the worse you're going 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.520 to work out. And then I'm left trying to fight 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.800 even more to try and keep doing what I think 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:05.200 I'm supposed to be doing. In lifting, all of those 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.800 things are oriented in a constructive cycle where the more 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.640 you eat the better, the more way you can lift, 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:16.040 the harder you can train. For me, with an adequate 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:20.200 dose of training, I sleep better, for instance, and all 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:22.920 of those things sort of feed off of each other 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.200 and become a virtuous cycle. I think in the book 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.400 I called it a reward reward reward, sort of like 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.600 there's no punishment reward system. It felt like it was 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:33.560 just all good stuff going in a circle. 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.400 I was so compelled by your personal story that unfolded 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.560 through this book. There was so much that I could 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:41.240 relate to. I think there's a lot that a lot 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.360 of people can relate to, And one of the things 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.960 that I found most relatable was simply stepping into a 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:46.920 gym and feeling. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.880 A little bit out of place and overwhelmed. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.600 I like that you actually let us go along with 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.360 you as you made a fool of yourself frankly a 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.040 few times, and had to learn the how to use 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.120 equipment and how to interact with people. You struggled, you 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.120 had a hard time. I think a lot of people do. 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.680 What do you say to someone who wants to try lifting, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.680 wants to start going to the gym, but maybe feel 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:11.960 self conscious or anxious about it. 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.680 We're sort of encouraged to think of as, oh, it's simple, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.280 like you just start going to the gym, But the 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:22.200 gym for somebody who is not great at dealing with 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.200 new environments or hasn't been sort of socialized in a 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.120 gym crowd in their whole life, it's a foreign environment 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.080 which takes some time getting used to. A lot of 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.360 times I find myself saying to people that when you 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.160 started a new job or a new school, or we've 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.560 had those experiences where it's not necessarily comfortable right away. 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.760 You don't know anybody and you're like, where is everything? 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.440 I don't know. You have to kind of allow yourself 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.520 to situate it in your mind like that, I think, 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:52.720 and give yourself time, and I like to say separate 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.360 the task of accomplishing a workout from getting used to 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.200 a new place. You are allowed to get your feet 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.600 wet first and just familiarize yourself. One of the pieces 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.359 of advice I give people is to give yourself a 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.000 session or two or as many as you want where 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.199 you just sort of go to the gym and post 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.080 up on a low stakes cardio machine where you can 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:15.679 see the rest of the gym and just sort of 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.560 observe see how people use the equipment, how do they 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:20.880 ask each other for things, where do they stand when 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.159 they do X, Y Z. That's not going to be 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.920 the total cure all, but it's good to let yourself 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.600 get familiar with, like where's the locker room? How do 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.840 you check in and feel like you know it a 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.560 little before you're trying to jump in and also complete 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:34.080 a workout. 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:35.760 You're allowed to take it a little. 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.320 Slowly, And we don't really think of it that way, 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.560 but I encourage thinking of it that way a little 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:40.000 bit more. 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.040 Yeah, I love that you don't have to do everything 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.159 at once. That is really wonderful advice. Well, we have 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:46.960 to take one more quick break, but we have so 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.960 much more to talk about with Casey Johnston Don't Go Anywhere. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.000 Welcome back to Part time Genius Now, Casey. Before the break, 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.359 we were talking about how people can kind of ease 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.800 their way into lifting, ease their way into going to 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.040 a gym because new environments can be intimidating. I think 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.520 the other thing that a lot of people hesitate about 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.040 is this fear of being judged or not being perceived 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.600 as worthy of being there. 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:25.359 And it's funny. 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.119 I was at the gym last month and I was 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:31.680 standing there doing dumbell curls using fifteen pound dumbbells, which 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:32.480 for me was a lot. 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:33.399 I was struggling. 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.119 I got to like four reps and I could not 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.640 keep going, and I looked to my left and there 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.920 is a guy easily twice my size, super ripped. He's 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:44.639 got these like, I think, forty forty five pound dumbells 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:46.320 and he is just flipping them up and down like 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:50.639 their toothpicks while carrying on a conversation with someone next 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.400 to him. And I'm practically on the floor after doing 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.480 my four reps with the fifteens, and in that moment, 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:01.639 I felt so scrawny and weak and discouraged, and it 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.720 was while reading your book that it kind of hit me. 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.520 First of all, I was actually working hard that guy 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.879 was not. He was not pushing himself. I was pushing 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:14.520 myself to the breaking point. So who's tough now. But 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.160 also it's this idea that everybody is on their own 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.400 pathway you should not expect someone else's results. 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:22.560 Is that sort of what you found in your own 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:23.520 journey through all. 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.199 Of this, yeah, one hundred percent. I mean you have 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.719 to keep in mind that often who you're seeing at 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:30.600 the gym are people who love going to the gym 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.040 and go all of the time. You only live in 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.119 that sort of beginner phase where you feel like you 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.399 don't know what you're doing and you feel like you 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.160 stick out like a sore thumb. Like that doesn't last 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:41.639 very long. Eventually you're going to be one of those 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.640 people where it's like your second living room. So that's 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.040 important to keep in mind. But there is also this 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:51.159 element of we're all working on what we need to 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:53.119 work on. I mean, even as somebody who has a 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.359 lot of experience, if you're going back after a long 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:59.200 time or you're rehabbing an injury, the ways you use 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.119 are going to be different than what you are capable 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.480 of at your strongest. This is true of everybody, so 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.199 it's very important to not compare yourself on just a 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.800 sort of numbers point. There's also this element of when 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:14.520 you are experienced at the gym, when you're one of 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.200 these guys, you know, you can tell when somebody is 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.520 working hard, and they respect the working hard. I think 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.760 only jerks would really judge you based on how much 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:25.880 weight you're lifting relative to how much they can lift. 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.440 Obviously those people exist, but I found there are way 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.800 more people at the gym who just loved the gym 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.479 and wanted to share that, especially with somebody who they 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:40.199 could tell was motivated and excited about it in my 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.720 own sort of reserved way, but also uncomfortable. They wanted 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:44.800 to help me feel comfortable, and that was really a 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:46.080 nice experience to have. 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:46.880 Yeah. 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.680 I absolutely loved the scenes in the book at Richie's 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.280 the gym in Brooklyn, where you found this camaraderie with 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.760 some older guys, you know, people you probably didn't encounter 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:57.560 as much in your everyday life. 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:02.000 Yeah, it's so great, and I feel like while I 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.720 did have these people who I ultimately felt were friendly 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.560 to me and looking out for me, they would sort of, 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.119