1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from housetop works 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Christian Seger and 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: I just got back from south By Southwest in Austin, Texas. 5 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: And while I was there, I saw a lot of 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: live podcasts, especially science podcasts. Uh. And as we have 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: been mentioning all throughout the month, we're doing the whole 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: tripod hashtag things. So if you're unfamiliar with this, Basically 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: the idea here is to promote other shows by letting 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: people know what you listen to. Uh, you say out 11 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: on social media, Hey I like stuff to blow your 12 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: mind hashtag tripod. People can search the tripod hashtag and 13 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: find new stuff because let's let's admit it, it's a 14 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: Podcasts aren't the easiest in terms of discover ability, right, Yeah, 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: there's so many of these days, and that's a lot 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: of bad podcast out there, but there are some really 17 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: good ones, and then there's just a rich variety. And 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: what constitutes a podcast is it? Is it people having 19 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: more of a real conversation. Is it a type we 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: produced product, is it all music or is it one 21 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: of those silent podcasts that I'm hearing more and more about. 22 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: Those are the best. It's just it's not even white noise, 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: is just nothing, just absolutely emptyness you can just pour 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: yourself into. Well. The one one of the ones that 25 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: I saw at south By that really grabbed my attention 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: was this it's pretty new podcast it just started this 27 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: year called Slings and Arrows, and they had a guest 28 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: named Christina Duranti, and she is a professor. She's at 29 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: Rutgers University right now, and she specializes in studying ovulation 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: and how it relates to consumer decision making. And so 31 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: I was just fascinated by the stuff she was talking about, 32 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: and I came back and I was like, we got 33 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: to do an episode on this woman's research. So we 34 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: took a eap dive into her cv. Basically, we read 35 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: a lot of her articles in this episode is about ovulation, 36 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: but then it's also about the research that she's conducted 37 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: over the years how people have reacted to it, because 38 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of criticism of her work. But 39 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: also the real wrap around here, the real takeaway is 40 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: that there's a sort of insidious marketing aspect to this 41 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: as well, which is that, Uh, if you're able to 42 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: track when a woman is ovulating, and ovulation leads to 43 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: different styles of decision making, then you could potentially market 44 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: in a manipulative way to women when they're ovulating to 45 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: get them to spend more money on something. Uh. And 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: that was what Durante's whole kind of framework was. Uh. So, 47 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: so for instance, like, um, you know these ovulation tracking apps, 48 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: like my wife uses one of those. Yes, yes, I 49 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: think I've heard of these. Yeah, so there's the possibility 50 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: of using those to have like pop up ads or 51 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: two for them to like sell the information of when 52 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: you're ovulating to a third party. Uh. The the other 53 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: idea here is that like, based on your purchase history, 54 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: that somebody working in marketing might be able to figure 55 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: out when you're ovulating. It's real strange stuff. So I thought, 56 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: this is something that we really need to take a 57 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: look at. Um, and this would be just one detail 58 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,839 Speaker 1: of our biometric information that we're going to be increasingly 59 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: totally giving to machines and giving to potential advertisers, etcetera. 60 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: You know, pop up ads like Hey, I see that 61 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: you're sweaty, maybe you stink, Maybe you should buy this product. Yeah. 62 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: I want to throw a couple of disclaimers in here 63 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: up front, the first being I really wish that our 64 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: colleagues Christen Conger and Caroline Irvine were still here, so 65 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: that maybe one or both of them could sit in 66 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: with us and talk to us about this topic, because 67 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: they have just you know, having worked on stuff Mom 68 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: never told you for so many years. They've encountered so 69 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: many studies like this and have a lot of experience 70 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: with the controversy surrounding things like this. I think they 71 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: could have given us a perspective on it that would 72 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: be interesting, But I think this research is interesting enough 73 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: that we should just go ahead and share it with 74 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: our audience anyway. Now that being said, we're going to 75 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: tackle the subject with the same level of care and 76 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: decorum that we tackle any topic here on stuff to 77 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: blow your mind. Yeah, and another note I want to 78 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: say before we start. We're definitely going to address this 79 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: at the end. But these studies could be seen as 80 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: very deterministic in that they seemingly propose that a single 81 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: factor such as ovulation drives the decision making of many women, 82 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: and I think it's worth stepping back and acknowledging that 83 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: before we even start that there are many other factors 84 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: that influence decision making in both men and women, right, 85 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: And I think Durante would probably agree with us on that. 86 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: But most of all, it's important not to read this 87 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: research and assume, oh, means that women aren't capable of 88 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: making rational, logical decisions outside of their reproductive cycle, right, 89 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: Like I could. I can imagine somebody listening to this 90 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: and being like, oh, this completely confirms everything that I've 91 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: ever thought about women, you know, and like, please don't 92 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: take that. That's always the danger of with studies like this, 93 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: right that, because ultimately, nobody wants to be reduced to 94 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: a mirror meat puppet or a hormonal meat puppet. Uh, 95 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: especially if there's just one string. And generally what's going 96 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: on with studies like this and any so many studies 97 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: that cross our desks that that boil down the human behavior. 98 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: It's about looking at one potential string on the meat puppet, 99 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: and nobody wants to We want to be a very 100 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: complex marionette pulled in different directions by a number of strings. 101 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: And that's more in keeping with what the reality is totally. 102 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: It's just that when stuff like this gets published and 103 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: then the media takes it and they kind of boil 104 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: it down to reduce it to it's like the lowest essence. 105 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: There's misinformation that goes around, and in particular, there's been 106 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: considerable controversy around these studies as well, even causing CNN 107 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: to pull one of their stories covering one about ovulation 108 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: and voting, and we're going to talk about that at 109 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: length later. Some people have called the pseudoscience. Other people 110 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: have referred to it as quote stupid, offensive, and sexist. 111 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: I think that there is something of value here. So 112 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: we're gonna look at this stuff. Well, first of all, 113 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna just establish the ground rules of what ovulation is. 114 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: But then we're gonna look at these studies and we're 115 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: gonna step back, look at the criticism, and then you 116 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: and hopefully us together can kind of come to a 117 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: conclusion of what we think. All right, well, let's jump 118 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: into it establishing just what ovulation is. Many of you 119 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: already are are well informed on this, but we have 120 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: we have both genders listening in, and we have people 121 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: of different ages. So let's let's get down to break. Yeah, 122 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this section awkward sex education with Coach 123 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: Christian Seger. UH. So here we go. This is a 124 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,559 Speaker 1: lot of this information is right off of how stuff 125 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: Works dot com, and we have many articles about the 126 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: reproductive cycle UH and specifically ovulation. So here we go. 127 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: Women are born with millions of immature eggs and these 128 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: are contained in multicellular structures called follicles. Now, each of 129 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: these is about the size of a pinhead and roughly 130 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: once a month, or actually it's about every twenty eight days, 131 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: though cycles can vary. The hypothalamus in our brain sends 132 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: a signal to the pituitary gland and that says, well, 133 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: you should release these follicle stimulating hormones. Now that's important 134 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: because that's the first hormone that comes into play here 135 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: with these ovulation studies. These prompt the follicles to develop 136 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: into mature eggs. One grows more dominant than the others, 137 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: and within two to three days following its maturity, the 138 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: egg will react to the release of another hormone, and 139 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: this is a lutinizing hormone. This stimulates the sex hormones 140 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: needed for pregnancy. It pushes the egg through the wall 141 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: of the ovary. The follicle itself then sends out a 142 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: call for an increase in estrogen production. So we've already 143 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: got what like three different types of hormones that are 144 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: being increased in decreased in various ways right now. Between 145 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: their periods, women ovulate usually. Uh, Now, this is interesting. 146 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: In the research it said usually a week before or after. 147 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: And my wife corrected me on this and took out 148 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: her little app and showed me exactly where it fell. 149 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: I think it's like it's sort of at the halfway point. 150 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: It can be a regular though, uh, and it can 151 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: occur even during a woman's period. Generally, though, most women 152 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: ovulate between day eleven and day twenty one, counting down 153 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: from their last menstrual period. So how do you know 154 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: when you're ovulating, Well, it's supposed to happen on the 155 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: four day of your cycle. It's the time when you 156 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: are the most fertile. And the symptoms include being able 157 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: to feel an ache in the ovary area, a change 158 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: in cervical secretion, a dip in body temperature and then 159 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: subsequently a spike, as well increased sex drive, light spotting, 160 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: a bloating feeling, and heightened senses of taste and or smell. Now, 161 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: oral contraceptive though they can suppress all of these symptoms, 162 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: and that's important to these studies as well. Now, how 163 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: can everyone else tell when you're ovulating? Well, they can't. 164 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: Unlike many other species such as the noobos in particular, 165 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: humans undergo what's called concealed ovulation, and most primates have 166 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: semi concealed ovulation. Now, why their number of theories here? 167 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: There's a parental investment, infanticide, reduction, sex and reward, social bonding, 168 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: and there's even a theory out there that it's just 169 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: a mere byproduct of being a biped. Yeah, but like 170 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: Durante and many of her studies kind of establishes this 171 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: upfront in the papers, basically saying, like, you know, with 172 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 1: primates you can sometimes tell that they're ovulating because their 173 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: genitals are swelling, right, and so subsequent both male and 174 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: female primates no and that sort of changes how they 175 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: socially interact with another. Now, normally the one egg passes 176 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: from either of the ovaries through the fallopian tubes. This 177 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: happens once per cycle, and then when or if two 178 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: eggs are released within a single twenty four hour span 179 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: and both are fertilized, this can result in fraternal twins, 180 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: and we have a whole brain stuff episode all about 181 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: how twins work. Uh, if you want to learn more, 182 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: you can go check that out. Inside the flopian tubes 183 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: are tiny hairs called cilia, and they helped pass that 184 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: egg through the tube toward the uterus. This takes several 185 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: days and the egg exists in a perfect environment that 186 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: provides it with the nutrients that it needs. Now, while 187 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 1: this is going on, the uterus, which is prompted by 188 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: signals released by the follicle that formed the egg originally, 189 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: has formed an internal lining called endometrium. This is rich 190 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: in blood and nutrients, and it's prepared to house and 191 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: nurture the egg if it gets fertilized. Now, fertilization does 192 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: not occur. The egg disintegrates into the uterine lining that 193 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,479 Speaker 1: passes out of the body during the period. So that's 194 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: the real basic sex said class uh, that we're going 195 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: to introduce here. That's the science up front of like, 196 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: here's how the body works, right, and we've related that 197 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: there's a definite ebb and flow of behavior that's associated 198 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: with this. Yeah. Absolutely, And that's where Christina Durante comes in. 199 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: So she is an associate professor of Marketing currently at 200 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: Rutger's Business School. She's a social psychologist that's interested in 201 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: the biology of decision making. Most of her research mixes 202 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: social psychology, evolutionary biology, and consumer decision making. She was 203 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: actually an entertainment marketing executive before she entered into academia, 204 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: but now she focuses on women's consumer choices and luxury spending, 205 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: family consumer spending, and how hormones like all the ones 206 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: we were just talking about, influence those decisions. Overall, her 207 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: research presents a theory that ovulation leads women to prioritize 208 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: the securement of genetic benefits from a mate who possesses 209 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: indicators of genetic fitness. Subsequently, her research shows that ovulating 210 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: women have an increased desire for short term sexual relationships 211 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: with men that possess markers of genetic fitness. And so 212 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: if you're wondering what that means physical symmetry for instance, 213 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: or masculinity or social dominance. She has a ted X 214 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: presentation that is available on YouTube. It's from in that 215 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: she actually references the Yurkeys National Primate Research Center that's 216 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, and she's talking about how and often 217 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: cases there there are fewer male primates than there are 218 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: female primates. Uh. And when the females approach ovulation, they 219 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: become more aggressive and they even attack one another. And 220 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: that's because they're becoming more competitive for reproductive of resources. 221 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: And that is really the very simplistic, broad framework for 222 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: almost all the research that we're going to talk about today. 223 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: Now we've already touched on the fact that, yes, when 224 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: when humans ovulate, there's not there's not like a drastic 225 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: change in colorization of the individual. And yet we're humans. 226 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,839 Speaker 1: We wear clothing, so this makes us, this actually makes 227 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: this capable of any number of colorization and appearance changes. 228 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: There are subtle ways in which we maybe do let 229 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: one another know if we're ovulating, and we don't even 230 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: know it ourselves. Let's take a quick break, and when 231 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: we get back, we're gonna look at Durante's first big 232 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: paper on this, which specifically talks about ovulations effect on 233 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: clothing choices. All right, we're back. So Durante, I believe this, 234 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: So this comes from two thousand eight, and I believe 235 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: that this is maybe something that she was working on, 236 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 1: what like it might have been her dissertation, or it 237 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 1: might have been something she was working on in grad school. UH. 238 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: She and others tested a hypothesis that women prefer clothing 239 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: that is more revealing and quote sexy when their fertility 240 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: is at its highest within their ovulatory cycle, and the 241 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: results suggest that clothing preference shifts and could reflect an 242 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: increase in female to female competition near ovulation. So, going 243 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: back to that your keys center metaphor of the primate 244 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: sort of fighting each other, the ovulation, the feeling of 245 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: intense competition with other females from mates, and therefore the 246 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: desire to to essentially improve one's UH selectivity. Yeah, exactly. 247 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: So the methodology they had they brought eighty eight women 248 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: in to report to their lab twice, and first on 249 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: the first visit was on a low fertility day of 250 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: their cycle, and then the second visit was on a 251 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: high fertility day. UH. And this was confirmed by using 252 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: hormone tests. That's important. We're going to come back to 253 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,479 Speaker 1: that later. How they track whether these women are ovulating 254 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: or not is extremely important to how these studies get criticized. 255 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: So in each instance, they had the participants posed for 256 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: full body photographs in clothing they wore to the lab, 257 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: and then they had them draw illustrations to indicate on 258 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: an outfit that they would like to wear if they 259 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: had a social event that evening. They also took surveys 260 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: about their relationships, their social sexual orientation, and their desirability. 261 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: Now I want to read this part from the study, 262 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: the instructions on how they should do the illustration. Basically, 263 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: they handed them a bunch of colored pencils and there's 264 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: like a piece of paper that had like a pre 265 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: drawn female body on it and it said this. Imagine 266 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: that you were attending a social gathering at a friend's 267 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: apartment tonight. From what this friend tells you, it is 268 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: a large party where there will be a lot of 269 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: single attract of people. The party starts around ten pm. Geez, 270 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: it's so late. I know it's here we are. I'm 271 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: going to be in bed by eleven. Begin to decide 272 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: on what you are going to wear to this party. 273 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: Using the colored pencils provided, indicate on the paper doll 274 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: what you will be wearing to this party by drawing 275 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: an outfit showing where the neckline will start on your 276 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: shirt to where the shirt will end. Also indicate where 277 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: your pants, shorts, skirt, etcetera. Will begin and end. So 278 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: they had to these eighty eight women do this. They've 279 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: got all these drawings right, and to analyze them, they 280 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: ran measurements on variables such as the total amount of 281 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: skin that was revealed, the sexiness and the revealing rating 282 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: of the illustration, and a composite rating of all those 283 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: photographs that they took as well their choice. There was 284 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: a lot of like statistical stuff involved in there. I 285 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: skipped over that because I didn't want to bore you 286 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: the audience. You know, there's a lot of math there. 287 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: But if you want all this stuff is available on 288 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: her CV site, you can read any of these studies. 289 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: So they found that the choices that these women made 290 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: were moderated by other factors beside fertility, including their social sexuality, attractiveness, 291 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: relationship status, and relationship satisfaction. So, for instance, sexually unrestricted 292 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: women showed greater shifts in preference for revealing clothing worn 293 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: to the lab when they were near ovulation. Now there's 294 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, in studies like these, they've got to do 295 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: a lot of literature review up front, and uh, this 296 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: is no difference. So related research they turned to indicated 297 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: the following that women's mating psychology is sensitive to fertility status, 298 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: and that ovulation could shift a woman's social motives and 299 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: behaviors in adaptive ways. Women may experience greater sexual desire 300 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: during these fertile windows in their cycle, but the desire 301 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: may be direct did toward what are referred to as 302 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: non primary partners if their primary partner specifically lacks indicators 303 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: they find attractive. So let's say I don't know you're married, uh, 304 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: and you your husband doesn't have a symmetrical face. Okay, Uh, 305 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: during this particular time, you may be attracted to people 306 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: who aren't your husband whose faces are more symmetrical. I 307 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: think that's what they're kind of getting at here. Additionally, 308 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: ovulation can include an increase and a woman's self perceived 309 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: attractiveness and a greater motive for them to attend social gatherings. 310 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: Hence this whole you know methodology of draw what you're 311 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: going to wear to a party. Other research has found 312 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: that reward related brain areas of women experience more activation 313 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: during the mid follicular phase of the menstrual cycle, So 314 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: this implies that they experience an increase in desire for 315 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: immediate rewards. Another study argues that women become more competitive 316 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: with their women during ovulation. Similarly, another study found that 317 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: women closest to the expected day of ovulation were less 318 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: likely to share a monetary award and more likely to 319 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: reject a low offer to share a monetary stake specifically 320 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,479 Speaker 1: with another woman. So, as you can tell, there's a 321 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: lot of research in this specific field about ovulation and 322 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: sort of social psychological behaviors. And I think already people 323 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: listening to to the show here you're hearing these these 324 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: arguments and you can already feel maybe a certain amount 325 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: of of outrage or sympathy for outrage regarding what may 326 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: sound like a sort of one string marionette um interpretation 327 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: of human behavior, right exactly. And that is a criticism 328 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: that has absolutely been leveled against these studies. Um. But 329 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: when you add all of this research together, not just Durante's, 330 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: but this this other stuff, it suggests it seems to 331 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: suggest that women are competitive for resources during the most 332 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: most fertile part of their cycle. Okay, but remember how 333 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: we were talking about those monkeys and how they could 334 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: detect ovulatory shifts. What if it was possible for human 335 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: beings to detect those in women based on their social behaviors. 336 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: So some women report that their primary partners get more 337 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: jealous or possessive when they're near ovulation. So the question 338 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: then is like, how do these partners like detect an 339 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: extra variation and flirtation or what about this? What if 340 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: men can smell changes in hormones through body scent. So 341 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: several studies have shown that men actually rate the smell 342 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: of t shirts worn by women on fertile days of 343 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: their cycle as smelling more attractive than those that are 344 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: worn on non fertile days. This reminds me of the 345 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: I think there's like a scent based speed dating. Is 346 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: that right? That I don't know to what extent it 347 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: It lasted, but it was making the realms and various 348 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: headlines if you years back, because the idea was, oh, 349 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: well we have this acent is going to be such 350 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: a powerful indicator that you should be able to at 351 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: least weed out potential romantic partners just based on smell 352 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: of and so if you know this, then the ideas 353 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: that you want to make sure you bring a shirt 354 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: that you wore on the day when you're ovulating. I 355 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: guess so we kind of get into one string marionette 356 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: territory totally. Uh, So there's also another study. Here's a 357 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: study that would should really be a runner up for 358 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: the Ignoble prizes. A research study found that lap dancers 359 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: earned more tips when they were near ovulation than other 360 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: cycle phases. I believe I remember this study, and I 361 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: believe it did win an Ignoble. It didn't. Okay, all right, 362 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: there's growing evidence that complete strangers can actually detect cues 363 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: of ovulation in women. But I think, like what they 364 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: mean here is that a lot of this is subconscious. 365 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: It's not like I walk by a coworker and I go, oh, 366 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: she's ovulating today, right, you know, It's it's like these 367 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: subtle cues. Yeah, it's the idea. Yeah, this is a 368 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 1: subconscious understanding of what's going on, as opposed to like 369 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: terminator read out of saying ovulating individual. Right, all right, 370 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: So all of this comes down to this paper's hypothesis 371 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: that women may alter their appearance to appear more physically 372 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: attractive when their fertility is at its highest, or alternatively, 373 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: that they feel more attractive near ovulation, and so they 374 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: put more effort into their appearance as a result. Now 375 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: there's a third possibility to which is that it could 376 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: be a result of the increased competition that I was 377 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: talking about, so that women alter their physical attractiveness to 378 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: enhance their ability to compete with other women for those 379 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: quote higher quality mates that like genetic territory. Again, what 380 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: made this study different from all the others was that 381 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: it examined a larger sample of women who were both 382 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: partnered and unpartnered. And this was in addition to women 383 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: who had and who had not experienced sexual in or 384 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: course uh. And this was because psychological mechanisms regulating behavioral 385 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: changes may be sensitive to sexual experiences, so they added 386 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: the illustration method. They also took into account the individual 387 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: difference variables that we mentioned already, and instead of using 388 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: counting methods to estimate high fertility days like counting down 389 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: from when your period ended, they utilized ovulation devices to 390 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: pinpoint and verify fertility. Again totally important because this is 391 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: something they attacked for later. The researchers considered high fertility 392 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: to be no more than two days prior to their 393 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: lutinizing hormone surge and no later than four days following 394 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: their lutinizing hormone search. They did not include women who 395 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: used hormonal contraceptives. Or who had irregular cycle links, or 396 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: who had had recently performed childbirth, or were currently breastfeeding, 397 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: or experienced dramatic weight changes, or used antidepressants or smoked 398 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 1: cigarettes regularly. So there's like this, why had variety of 399 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: factors that they just completely swept out of the study 400 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: because those factors could potentially alter the cycle. So what 401 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: were their results? Well, they found this that women prefer 402 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: clothing that is more revealing and sexy near the onset 403 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: of ovulation, particularly when they're in mating relevant contexts. I 404 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: guess that's shorthand for a party. At a party, they 405 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: sketch sexier outfits when they're nearest ovulation. But the ratings 406 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: on the photographs didn't differ significantly. Women who were more 407 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: sexually experienced revealed more skin on their outfit illustrations that 408 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: when they're at high fertility than the women who were 409 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: sexually inexperienced, And the results seemed to indicate that women 410 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: who were more open to casual sexual encounters desired outfits 411 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: that were more revealing, and they wore clothing that was 412 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: sexier when they were at high fertility. This was preferred 413 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: by single women over partnered women. Overall, The researchers saw 414 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: this as a reflection of an increase in what they 415 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: referred to as intra sexual competition, but it was moderated 416 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: by their clothing choice. Their thesis is that ovulation was 417 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: the key variable in deciding how we look and how 418 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: that contributes to the day to day changes and how 419 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: we decide to appear attractive to the rest of the world. Okay, 420 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: so let's set up back from this big study. Remember 421 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: that this all gets back to marketing, right, So if 422 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: you are ovulating and somehow a marketer knows that, I 423 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe it's like a department store that you 424 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: have an app of on your phone, or you've got 425 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: some kind of subscription to an email service, or it's like, um, 426 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: like an online clothing service like some of the people 427 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,239 Speaker 1: we advertise for, right right, And then of course, just 428 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: the the very safe bet that a certain number of 429 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: customers are going to be ovulating when they view your 430 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: ads or walked by your store or are in your 431 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: store browsing exactly. So the idea here is that like, 432 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,120 Speaker 1: that's the best time to try to sell these products 433 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: that would potentially be more revealing. So take it or 434 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: leave it. I don't you know. We're gonna go through 435 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: more of this, but let's like always remember with these 436 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 1: studies that sort of the context is that regardless of 437 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: whether or not we believe in these studies, it seems 438 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: like business people do and they're going to use this 439 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: information to try to sell you stuff. Yeah. I think 440 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: it's very important to keep in mind as well as 441 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: just the normal important take home on any study we 442 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: we reference here is that it's not necessarily the final work. 443 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: Now we've got another study here. This is the next one, UH, 444 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: that she did related to this on ovulation and product choice. 445 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: I think you did the research on this one, right, Yeah, 446 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: And this one basically just springs off of what we've 447 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: been talking about here. So again this is just talking 448 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: about how peak fertility and women UM affects choices. And 449 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: in this case, UH found that the non consciously chose 450 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: products that can hand their appearance, and this seems to 451 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: be driven by this desire to outdo attractive rival women. 452 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: So this study entailed three experiments to see how ovulation 453 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: affected product choice specifically, UH, namely the degree to which 454 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: peak fertility women chose products that enhance appearance. So experiments. 455 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: These experiments entailed a virtual shopping exercise and it charting 456 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: of their ovulation. Uh. And a lot of this is 457 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: very similar, very similar methodology to the previous study, except 458 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: with a different specific focus. So in the first experiment, 459 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: women chose a greater percentage of sexy clothing in this 460 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: online shopping scenario and accessories items near ovulation. Okay, so 461 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: that's the first level. In the second experiments, same deal, 462 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: only they were primed to think about the attractiveness of 463 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: local men and women via photopriming. Uh. Women primed with 464 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: attractive women chose significantly more sexy products near ovulation, and 465 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: the women chose sexier products when prime desirable men. But 466 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: these choices were not affected by their ovulation status. Interesting. 467 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: And then the third experiment, same deal again, except ovulating 468 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: and non ovulating women were primed to consider first of all, 469 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: attractive local women, second unattractive local women, third attractive distant women, 470 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: or for attractive distant unattractive distant women. So again, the 471 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: results indicated that attractive local women were the influencing factor here. 472 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: So uh. The idea here I being, it doesn't matter 473 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: what you know. A supermodel in New York is wearing 474 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: and looking like but if there's some indication that this 475 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: is what people are, this is what potential uh mating 476 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: competitors look like and dress like, and this is how 477 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: they appear here where you are, that that can have 478 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: this impact, that this can pull the marionette strings. Okay, 479 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: so I could sort of see an idea here that like, 480 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: even though you may not live in the big city, 481 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: here watching television and it's like, I don't know, it's 482 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 1: a drama that takes place in New York City. It's 483 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: Sex in the City, right, and you see how those 484 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: women dress, which I wouldn't be shocked to find out 485 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: that the Sex in the City cast were like doing 486 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: product placement with a clothing that they were wearing. Right, 487 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: So that is supposed to subsequently make you think, oh, 488 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: that's how at these vast distance attractive women are dressing. 489 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: How does that relate to how I'm dressing? Competition level? Right? 490 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 1: But alright, so I'm gonna play Devil's advocate here. I'm 491 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: gonna step out so immediately like what I think is 492 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: well attractive quote unquote is such a subjective term. What 493 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: does that mean? Because we don't have like a universal 494 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: constant for what attractive is so how does measuring that 495 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: play into this? You know, I could see that being 496 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: an argument leveled against this. Yeah, it had this. This 497 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: seems to have a very like fashion magazine level understanding 498 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: of what people find attract I mean, because a lot 499 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: of this comes down to clothing choices, and one individual 500 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: sexy clothing is not going to be the sexy clothing 501 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: of another individual. I could still I could still see 502 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: within the parameters of the of the experiment how those 503 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: levels could could come into play. But say an ovulating 504 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: woman who's really into the punk scene, her level of 505 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: sexy attire, the sexier attire would be different from the 506 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: you know, from somebody who's I don't know, into goth totally. No, 507 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about this that like subcultures in particular, 508 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: and and I don't know if this is something that 509 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: Durante has taken to account at all in any of 510 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: her studies. She didn't talk about it, but maybe it's 511 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: something they're thinking about doing. But yeah, like various subcultures 512 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: have various definitions of what attractive looks like, right, and 513 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: what kind of signifiers there are, and so yeah, I'm 514 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: not entirely sure how that works out, especially like when 515 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: they're doing the drawings. Will also say this, Like when 516 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: I watched her ted X talk, she showed the actual 517 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: images of the drawings that people did and the drawings 518 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: that were considered, like the conservative drawings of outfits that 519 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: they were doing when they weren't ovulating. I, as a 520 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: straight guy, was like, well, that's far more attractive to 521 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: me than like these super short shorts and like halter 522 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: tops that the the ovulating women were drawing. So like, 523 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: it's all subjective, right, yeah, and and not only subcultural, 524 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: but cultural in in general. And certainly there's a there's 525 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: an argument to be made as with so many studies 526 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: like what was the sample group here? Um? Were these 527 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: just uh, you know, a bunch of of of white 528 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: women that you were interviewing here, white American women? Or 529 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: were they different people from different races and cultures? So 530 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: I will say that if you dig into these papers, 531 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: like I didn't pull all of this for our research here, 532 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: but she was very meticulous about how she documented demographics 533 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: of age, ethnicity, sexual preference, all kinds of things, So, uh, 534 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: subculture didn't come into it. But but but yeah, so 535 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: they did take that into account, and that's where she 536 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,719 Speaker 1: runs in a little trouble later on too, because she uh, 537 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: in a voting study that we're going to talk about later, 538 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: she wanted a really large sampling study, uh, and so 539 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: she did it online instead of in person. Before we 540 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: get to that study, though, I very quickly want to 541 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: hit one more study that she did in and this 542 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: was it's not as related to the whole marketing influence argument, 543 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: So I don't want to do as deep a dive 544 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: on this. But the the the paper is called Sexy 545 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: Cads Versus Good Dads, and the idea here is that 546 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: they conducted three different studies to show that ovulating women 547 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: perceived charismatic and physically attractive men, but not reliable and 548 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: nice men as being more committed partners and more devoted 549 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: future fathers. Specifically, ovulating women perceived what she refers to 550 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: as sexy cads. But what is a cad? And so 551 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: like their idea was kind of like she keeps calling 552 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: it in the paper and also in this TEDx talk 553 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: the bad Boy, like they show this picture of like 554 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: a physically like a guy who's in great shape, he 555 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: doesn't have a shirt on, he's got stubble name cad. No, 556 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: but but oh, cad is kind of like a synonym 557 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: for like, you know, like a guy who's like loose morals. What. 558 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: I've never heard this before. I'm not familiar with cats man, 559 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: you haven't worked the street. Huh. I've apparently never been 560 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: accused of being a kid's sexy cads versus good dad's um. 561 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, so uh. The idea was that these ovulating 562 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: women found these guys to be more attractive as good 563 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: fathers for their children. But wait, but then when they 564 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: were asked if they would be good fathers for other 565 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: women's children, they said no. Uh. And so this basically 566 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: the breakdown of this without going through this whole paper. 567 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: They understood this as being evolutionary behavior related to an 568 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: ovulating woman desiring a man again with those strong genetic 569 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: traits that they might pass on to their children. So 570 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: these guys were symmetrical, they were dominant, they were masculine looking, right, 571 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: and that I actually watched um again in the ted 572 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: X talk. She showed some video they hired actors to 573 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: play these guys. Uh, and the actor would do like 574 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: like he was instructed to act like George Clooney when 575 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: he was playing the cat okay, and he just like 576 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: was like overly sure of himself and kind of suggestive, 577 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: and then when he played the quote good dad, he 578 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: was kind of unsure of himself, but was very like 579 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: verbally obvious about the fact that, like he wanted to 580 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: be in a committed relationship and that he was looking 581 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: to settle down and he thought he would be a 582 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: good father at some point in his life. And so 583 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: these it was the same guy, Like, it was the 584 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: same actor playing both roles. Now I can't help but 585 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: wonder to what extent, uh, this involves the very human tendency. 586 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: I think there's ocur is a you know, both sides 587 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: of the gender divide, this idea that that when you 588 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: think about another person and you think about a relationship 589 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: with that person, you think about ways that they are 590 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,919 Speaker 1: going to change in your relationship. You know, she didn't 591 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: get into that at all, but I did think about that, 592 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: like the the I can fix him or I can 593 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,479 Speaker 1: fix her idea. Is that what you're kind of getting 594 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: So that's what I'm getting at, And I can see 595 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: where one could have that opinion. They're like, oh, well, 596 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: if she were in my life, if he were in 597 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: my life, then I can I can easily imagine how 598 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 1: we come together and change with each other. But then 599 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: when you're thinking about somebody else, you're like, oh, that's 600 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: a disast, right, yeah, that's it's a bad story waiting 601 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: to happen. Yeah, exactly. And according to this study, how 602 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: you think about that depends on where you are in 603 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: your ovulation cycle. So it's interesting. All right, let's take 604 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: our second break. When we come back, we're going to 605 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: get into the one that got her into trouble. This 606 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: is the study on how ovulation supposedly affects voting. Alright, 607 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: we're back. So this is this is not surprising, right 608 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: that this would be the one to get her into 609 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: trouble because we're already dealing with some problematic and some 610 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: problematic ideas here that that that really provoke argument. And 611 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: then you're gonna throw politics into them. Oh yeah, not 612 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: only politics, but religion. So yeah, so again, this is 613 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: the one that had a lot of controversy to it. Uh. 614 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: They took the ovulation behavior theory one step further and 615 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,720 Speaker 1: suggested that political and religious orientation is linked to reproductive 616 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: goals and the ovulation cycle, and that changes women's views 617 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: on politics and religion and subsequently their results show that 618 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: ovulation lead single women to vote more liberal and be 619 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: less religious and be more likely to vote for Barack 620 00:36:54,680 --> 00:37:00,479 Speaker 1: Obama in but ovulation and women in committed relationships were 621 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: more likely to become conservative, more religious, and they were 622 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: more likely to vote for Mitt Romney in women are 623 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: more likely to vote than men are. That's just outside 624 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: of opulation studies, Like we know that as a statistic, uh, 625 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: and that makes them pivotal to anybody who's seeking office. Right. 626 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: You hear about this constantly on the talking head shows, right, 627 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: like the female vote or the women vote or whatever. 628 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: Um In Romney was favored by married women, but Obama 629 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: was favored by single women. And it's been it's been 630 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: a while, and boy did we go through one hell 631 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: of an election. Uh, just recently, so it's hard to 632 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: remember this, But there was all this talk, like all 633 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,320 Speaker 1: this horrible dumb talk and like talk radio and CNN 634 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,240 Speaker 1: and stuff that it was like, oh, if single women 635 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: are allowed to make the decision, like we're gonna end 636 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: up with Barack Obama again, like that kind of thing, right, Yeah, 637 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: And the tendency to reduce all voters to like either 638 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: single either single topic, single issue voters or just like 639 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: single biological impulse of voters. That being said, I have 640 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: to say Romney and Obama both very symmetrical individuals, both 641 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: attractive guys. I would like to see more politicians hit 642 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,439 Speaker 1: that note, like really have that be like a key 643 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: talking point on their on their campaign. I am a 644 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: symmetrical individual. Well. Several theorists beyond Durante and her her 645 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: co researchers, have proposed that political and religious ideology are 646 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: related to reproductive goals, and this is possibly because of 647 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: an individual's mating strategy drives and that those affect their 648 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 1: political and religious attitudes. Other studies have shown that making 649 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: concerns are strong predictors of religious service attendants as well 650 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: as what their social attitudes are relating to the legalization 651 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,879 Speaker 1: of maryor wanna. So what they did in this one 652 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: was they did two separate studies. Now remember what I said. 653 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,280 Speaker 1: The earlier studies they actually measured, you know, hormonally, whether 654 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: these women were ovulating. Uh. In this they found participants 655 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: via some kind of software Amazon has called mechanical Turk. 656 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: I've never heard of it before, but they gave them 657 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: small payments and they participated in basically surveys the women 658 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: supplied their menstrual period information that was gathered as well 659 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,479 Speaker 1: as their current relationship status and their demographic information. Then 660 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: there was a scaled survey that was used to measure 661 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: their religiosity. Second study pretty similar methodology, but in addition 662 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: they examined political attitudes. They split them into attitudes on 663 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: social attitudes or social issues, and attitudes on economic issues. 664 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: And they said that the distinction here was important because 665 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: research has shown that reproductive goals are related to social 666 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: political issues but not economic one. So following this survey, 667 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: the participants were asked to indicate who they would vote 668 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: for or who they might donate money to in the 669 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: presidential election. And the essential argument here was that, first 670 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: of all, ovulating women are more interested in mating while 671 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: their bodies prepare for reproduction, and that sexual permissiveness is 672 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:31,839 Speaker 1: associated with lower religiosity and higher levels of liberal political ideology. 673 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: So subsequently, single women experiencing increased reproductive impulses as a 674 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: result of ovulation will hold less religious and more politically 675 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: liberal preferences because they are interested in mating. Uh. And 676 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: then they also said, meanwhile, paired women with the same 677 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:57,720 Speaker 1: reproductive impulses want to prevent infidelity in their relationships because 678 00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: that may cause them to potentially lose access to the 679 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,360 Speaker 1: resources they have to care for their children in themselves 680 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: as a result of their relationship breaks. Like like that 681 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: one right there alone, I was like, oh, so this 682 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,840 Speaker 1: is basically implying like a woman can't raise children on 683 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: our own, or at least that that's an idea in 684 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: the back of most uh women's minds when they're married. 685 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. Uh again, like super super subjective, I think, yeah, 686 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: and I can. I mean, it's obvious why this study 687 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,720 Speaker 1: did not set well with a lot of people because 688 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 1: at its core, it is taking something as as serious 689 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 1: as one's political views, and something I know often is 690 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: is nuanced and thought out, something that you know, when 691 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: we think about it, we think about all the experiences 692 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: of the things we've read, our whole life is leading 693 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: up to our current political viewpoint. But then to say, actually, 694 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: it's really more about your reproductive impulses. It's really about 695 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: it's not about your your human view of the world. 696 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: It's about your most basic animal instincts regarding the world. 697 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 1: It totally takes out any kind of like complex decision 698 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,919 Speaker 1: making that's built into the human condition. Um, so yeah, 699 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 1: I can see why people would be really upset by it. 700 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: We're not going to jump into that criticism right now 701 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: because there's still one more study to cover, but we 702 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: will get to the criticism, I promise, because let me 703 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: tell you this, this thing got ripped to shreds. All right. 704 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: Last study, this is the most recent one as far 705 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: as I can tell, comes from and it's about money 706 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,319 Speaker 1: and status and the ovulatory cycle. So this is one 707 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: of the more recent ones. It found that women's monthly 708 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: hormonal fluctuations seem to have an effect on their consumer behavior. 709 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: This gets us back to the idea of marketing, right. 710 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: I do want to add to that, Like with the 711 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: voting study, the marketing thing didn't really seem to be 712 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 1: able to come into play there. In fact, they like 713 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 1: interviewed some political campaigners and they were like, how could 714 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 1: we possibly It's not like we're going to knock on 715 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: somebody's door and be like, hey, would you like to 716 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: vote for our candidate? And when are you ovulating? Like 717 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: you know, like that's not something that's going to come up. 718 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: How do you gain that? Ye? Uh. However, so this 719 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:21,359 Speaker 1: hormonal fluctuation and consumer behavior systematically alters women's positional concerns, 720 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,320 Speaker 1: which could be important for marketers, consumers, and researchers alike. 721 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: This all this basically ties together all of Duranti's research 722 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: until now. Uh. So, the hypothesis here is that that 723 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: week long period near ovulation should boost a woman's desire 724 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,319 Speaker 1: for status and subsequently alter their economic decisions. Uh And 725 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: they found that women near ovulation seek quote unquote position 726 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: goods to improve their social standing, but that this desire 727 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: to improve social standing was relative with other women, not 728 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: with other men. Uh. Other studies have shown that women 729 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,919 Speaker 1: do not always choose to increase their financials standing over 730 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: absolute gains over other women. Fifty six percent, according to 731 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: one study, would choose to take less money for themselves 732 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: if it meant that they would gain relative status when 733 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: compared to their peers. So the idea here is, um, 734 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: they have two choices. I get like forty dollars, but 735 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: if I get forty thou dollars, my female peers get 736 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,879 Speaker 1: sixty dollars, or I get twenty thousand dollars. And if 737 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 1: I get twenty thousand dollars, my female peers only get 738 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. And so the research seems to indicate that 739 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: fifty six would choose to take the lower amount of 740 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,560 Speaker 1: money solely so that they can make sure that their 741 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 1: peers stayed beneath them. Well, seems like the thing to 742 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: do would be to go to your peers and say, look, 743 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,400 Speaker 1: this mad genie approached me with the deal. Um, I 744 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 1: an't we split it evenly? You know, let's come up 745 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 1: with a system that works better for everybody. You know, 746 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: you're not far off. We're actually gonna talk about that 747 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: in relation to the Dictator game. Haven't you guys talked 748 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: about the Dictator game before? I want to say, you 749 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,839 Speaker 1: and Joe covered in a previous episode. I think so, 750 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: I believe that came up. Uh, so that if you're 751 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 1: not familiar with this, the Dictator game is, uh, this 752 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 1: this game where basically you give people a pile of money, 753 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: and uh, there's two players. The first player has the 754 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: fixed amount of money and they're tasked with dividing it 755 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,840 Speaker 1: between their self and the other person across from them. So, 756 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: so let's let's say it's you and me. You're given 757 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 1: a hundred dollars and you have to decide how much 758 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: of that hundred dollars you give to me. Uh. And 759 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 1: in this scenario, you're a dictator because you get to decide. 760 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: The dictator can give as much or as little as 761 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 1: they want to. That's hence the dictating. But the more 762 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: they give, the less they get for themselves. Okay, So 763 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: a meta analysis of all the game studies done on 764 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: dictator studies indicates that people tend to give to of 765 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 1: the money to the other person if they're a total stranger. 766 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: So in theory, you would give me somewhere between of 767 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: the money in your pile. You're a total stranger in 768 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 1: this scenario. Oh yeah, that's right, we're not total strangers. Yeah, 769 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: you would give me more. Maybe. Female dictators, though, typically 770 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:28,080 Speaker 1: offer more money than male dictators, and people offer more 771 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: money to female receivers than the male receivers. Does that 772 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: make sense? So you're more likely if you're a woman, 773 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 1: you're more likely to give more money to the person 774 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: across from you, And if you're a woman, you're more 775 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,799 Speaker 1: likely to receive money from whoever is the dictator in 776 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 1: the game, regardless of agenda. Okay, so they used that 777 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 1: in this study. This was one of the three studies 778 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: they did to sort of, uh, measure money and status. 779 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: And ovulation. So they hypothesized that ovulation would alter the 780 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:07,040 Speaker 1: size of the woman's offer in the dictator game. Uh. 781 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: And they said, we think what they're gonna do is 782 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 1: they're gonna give smaller financial offers to other women, but 783 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,280 Speaker 1: not to men. Uh. And they were led to believe 784 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,239 Speaker 1: that the other participant was a study uh sorry, a 785 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,880 Speaker 1: student in the same university as them. Now, when playing 786 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,800 Speaker 1: with a woman, an ovulating woman gave significantly less money 787 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,640 Speaker 1: than did those who were not opulating. Ovulation did not 788 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: have the same effect when women played with men. Women 789 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 1: who were ovulating gave significantly more money to a male 790 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: player than those who weren't ovulating. In fact, they actually 791 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 1: gave them more than fifty of the endowment. So I 792 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 1: think about that they an ovulating woman with a man 793 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 1: across from them. They've got a hundred dollars sitting in 794 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: a pile, and they say, I could give you some 795 00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: of this money. How much am I going to give 796 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: to you? They gave him more than half. So they gave, 797 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: they gave. They made it so that the the mail 798 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,680 Speaker 1: across the table from them had more money than they did. Huh. 799 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: Because I have to say, at this point, I imagine 800 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 1: a lot of you doing the same thing. You're going 801 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 1: through all the relationships in your life and determining how 802 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,359 Speaker 1: much you're gonna give them. And I feel like, like, 803 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,839 Speaker 1: like strangers, I'm probably gonna give anybody that I know. 804 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: Everyone else pretty much, everybody else divided, regardless of agenda, 805 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,839 Speaker 1: is getting unless you, like you're my wife and she gets, 806 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,920 Speaker 1: I guess I'll give her, and maybe I give my 807 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 1: son because was he need A five year old doesn't 808 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,080 Speaker 1: need that much money. But everybody else just fifty across 809 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: the board. Yeah, that seems like a fair way to 810 00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: do it, right, It seems like the way to do it. 811 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,720 Speaker 1: Uh not very dictatorial, but pretty fair. Uh So. But yeah, 812 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: so so this is like their interesting like tidbit that 813 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,719 Speaker 1: they took away from this was just like wow, like 814 00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,840 Speaker 1: like this really shows not only that there's competition between women, 815 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 1: but that there's this idea that they're going to give 816 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,320 Speaker 1: more money to a man. Uh And overall, the studies 817 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:09,279 Speaker 1: showed that ovulation didn't just affect women's choices when they're 818 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,440 Speaker 1: purchasing food or clothing, which you know we've talked about earlier, 819 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,640 Speaker 1: but it has a broader effect on their positional concerns 820 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 1: and society. Uh, and that this particular phase in their 821 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: cycle seems to lead them to jockey for position with 822 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,279 Speaker 1: other women. Now, I do want to throw in here 823 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,400 Speaker 1: that in figuring out how much money of the genius 824 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,080 Speaker 1: gift I give to everyone, I'm not discounting the fact 825 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: that yet there are plenty of men who would definitely 826 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,879 Speaker 1: give more than in an attempt, maybe even a nonconscious 827 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 1: attempt to impress the the other person. I think that 828 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,360 Speaker 1: might be the idea here too. Right. Yeah, and and 829 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,360 Speaker 1: let's keep in mind they didn't measure men on this, 830 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:49,600 Speaker 1: and we're gonna get to this at the end of 831 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,040 Speaker 1: the episode. But hey, surprise, men are just as affected 832 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:57,160 Speaker 1: by hormonal changes in decision making as women are. It's 833 00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 1: just women are hormonal meat puppets than men are, like hormonal, Yeah, yeah, totally. 834 00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,840 Speaker 1: All right, let's dive into the criticism. Let's see what 835 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:11,200 Speaker 1: everybody really ripped into durante about here. Uh. And those 836 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: of you who are listening who are chomping at the 837 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:14,840 Speaker 1: bit and they're like, oh, I hate this person. I 838 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 1: can't believe you guys are covering this. This is the 839 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: section for you. So uh, in particular, that study about voting, 840 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:27,520 Speaker 1: which was done together with Ashley Arcina and Vladis grisk cavicious. Uh. 841 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,760 Speaker 1: That was heavily criticized and it was not well received. 842 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,440 Speaker 1: In fact, so CNN pulled it off of their site 843 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,000 Speaker 1: because they said it failed to meet their editorial standards, 844 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 1: and people online called it silly, stupid, sexist, and offensive. 845 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,880 Speaker 1: Science bloggers got together and they dissected and ridiculed the 846 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,840 Speaker 1: article as poor science. They said that it made false 847 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: assumptions about human psychology. So there's a couple of like, 848 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,799 Speaker 1: uh sources that I turned to here for some perspective 849 00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:01,000 Speaker 1: on this, not just science bloggers. Uh. In Psychology Today, 850 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,799 Speaker 1: Greg R. Murray wrote about it and he said, look, 851 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:10,080 Speaker 1: this study appears to be fairly typical social science, but 852 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 1: it suffers from a lot something that a lot of 853 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,240 Speaker 1: people won't tolerate, which is the idea that biological factors 854 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:21,840 Speaker 1: might influence men and women to behave differently. Yeah. Christine 855 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,840 Speaker 1: Harris and Laura mick As I believe is how you 856 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 1: pronounce it, or maybe it's mixed. They conducted a replication 857 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,480 Speaker 1: study of it, uh, and their study was called women 858 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,600 Speaker 1: Can Keep the Vote. No evidence that hormonal changes during 859 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,560 Speaker 1: the menstrual cycle impact political and religious beliefs. Now, this 860 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:44,680 Speaker 1: replication failed to confirm two of Durante's three findings, but 861 00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,920 Speaker 1: it did confirm that ovulating single women were more likely 862 00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:53,520 Speaker 1: to vote for Barack Obama. Okay, let's step back again. 863 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: Greg R. Murray in Psychology Today, he says, Look, this 864 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,320 Speaker 1: is what science is supposed to be. This is science 865 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,520 Speaker 1: at its best. What it's supposed to happen is one 866 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,320 Speaker 1: study makes an argument, another study replicates it and tries 867 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,520 Speaker 1: to confirm it. And the fact that this replication study 868 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,200 Speaker 1: wasn't a complete and utter failure actually calls for even 869 00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:21,600 Speaker 1: more research. And again he says, that's what's supposed to happen, Like, 870 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,879 Speaker 1: that's that's how this system is supposed to work. It's 871 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,160 Speaker 1: not like a one and done deal. Somebody does a 872 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,800 Speaker 1: study and we just accept that is given fact. Yeah, 873 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,080 Speaker 1: this is something that's come up on the show definitely before. Specifically, 874 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,320 Speaker 1: I remember there was a study came out about the 875 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,800 Speaker 1: tartar grade being like and it's alien DNA, right, and 876 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:43,279 Speaker 1: these are water bears, water bears the client of of 877 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,880 Speaker 1: ASA Baron, one of our favorites around here. Yeah, but 878 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,520 Speaker 1: this was an example where study came out, made got 879 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,840 Speaker 1: a lot of coverage and we even record an episode 880 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,600 Speaker 1: on it, and then some than some other researchers set 881 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,480 Speaker 1: actually their problems with a study, etcetera. And this is 882 00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,719 Speaker 1: an example of science and acts, and this is how 883 00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,600 Speaker 1: science works. It's easy to lose track of that when 884 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,719 Speaker 1: so much of our reporting it really boils down to, oh, 885 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,440 Speaker 1: here's this new study that tells us how this thing works, 886 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,839 Speaker 1: which really every new study is helping us to better 887 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 1: understand how the thing works, and in closer and closer, 888 00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:21,280 Speaker 1: with frequent missteps, towards complete understanding. Yeah, and I think 889 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,919 Speaker 1: I think we can say this from the position of 890 00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:29,880 Speaker 1: people who work in digital media that covers science, that 891 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,799 Speaker 1: oftentimes what you get is the article or video or 892 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,719 Speaker 1: podcast is presented to you as if, well, if this 893 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:40,719 Speaker 1: one study was done total total fact. Right. This makes 894 00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,360 Speaker 1: me think of an old Lewis Black joke where and 895 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:44,959 Speaker 1: I think I brought this up on the show before, 896 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,160 Speaker 1: where he's like, study comes out and it says milks 897 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,240 Speaker 1: good for you. That study comes out and says milks 898 00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:50,800 Speaker 1: bad for you, and then other study comes out and 899 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,320 Speaker 1: it says milks good for you again, and he keeps 900 00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,279 Speaker 1: getting more and more confused and angry about whether he 901 00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 1: should drink milk or not. Right, And it's it's kind 902 00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,319 Speaker 1: of like that. Every time the study comes out, the 903 00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,160 Speaker 1: articles that are written about the studies present them as 904 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,200 Speaker 1: if like, Okay, here it is. This is the absolute fact. 905 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,720 Speaker 1: Get ready to change your life around this, right, whereas 906 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,040 Speaker 1: it's more like, well, here's some research we're working on it. 907 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,600 Speaker 1: You know, science is a long term process. Um alright. 908 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,880 Speaker 1: Another person tackled this in The New Republican. It was 909 00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,840 Speaker 1: a person named Charles Bethia. They looked at the study, 910 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,920 Speaker 1: uh and they said. Critics of the paper called it 911 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,880 Speaker 1: quote a footnote to the long and inglorious history of 912 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:40,960 Speaker 1: sexist pseudoscience now. Ironically, one Rutgers professor said that it 913 00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:45,080 Speaker 1: was another troubling use of women's hormones to exclude them 914 00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:49,760 Speaker 1: from politics or other societal opportunities. Say, that's ironic because 915 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,799 Speaker 1: look back at our notes. Christina Durante works at Rutgers now, 916 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,239 Speaker 1: so I wonder if these people work in the same 917 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,360 Speaker 1: department now, and like, how awkward that might be? Awkward 918 00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:06,759 Speaker 1: coffee machine interactions exactly. Uh So. Another academic saw the 919 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,840 Speaker 1: study as a growing trend in social science journals of 920 00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:15,520 Speaker 1: publishing research that is quote fragile, unreliable, that cannot be replicated, 921 00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,240 Speaker 1: and does not generalize outside the lab to real world settings. 922 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,399 Speaker 1: Another referred to it as headline bait that is not 923 00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:28,480 Speaker 1: obviously wrong. Now you're probably wondering, well, what did Duranta 924 00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,800 Speaker 1: have to say about all of this? Well, she actually 925 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,560 Speaker 1: defended her research. She conducted an interview with the Chronicle 926 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,759 Speaker 1: of Higher Education to provide feedback on all this criticism 927 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,719 Speaker 1: that she was receiving, and I'll boil it down like this. 928 00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:44,080 Speaker 1: She said she felt most media coverage of scientific work, 929 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,719 Speaker 1: such as the CNN article, only highlighted the basic findings 930 00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,800 Speaker 1: of the paper and left a lot of room from misinterpretation. 931 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,319 Speaker 1: That the methodology was criticized for only asking women their 932 00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:02,000 Speaker 1: opinions once in the specific study, and Durante argued specifically 933 00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,480 Speaker 1: that she was using that Internet panel remember that like 934 00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,759 Speaker 1: Amazon thing that I didn't really understand. She used that 935 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,160 Speaker 1: because she wanted to obtain a large and diverse sample 936 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,759 Speaker 1: of women for the study, and the only way she 937 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,960 Speaker 1: could do that, given probably where where she was located 938 00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,799 Speaker 1: at the time, was to use the Internet. She also 939 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,640 Speaker 1: said the methodology was criticized because she couldn't actually test 940 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,040 Speaker 1: the hormone levels of the participants. So remember, like in 941 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,400 Speaker 1: all those earlier studies, they used like various scientific methods 942 00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,960 Speaker 1: to test, you know, how they are ovulating. She said, 943 00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: there's a large body of research that's looking at ovulatory 944 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,560 Speaker 1: effects on behavior right now and it uses the same methodology, 945 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,040 Speaker 1: and those studies aren't being criticized. So why is mind 946 00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,680 Speaker 1: being criticized? Uh? And I think we should also remember 947 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,799 Speaker 1: that in all of her other studies that we've talked 948 00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,840 Speaker 1: about here, that she has measured hormone levels in the people. 949 00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,960 Speaker 1: Her interpretation of the data was criticized as well, because 950 00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,879 Speaker 1: when you when you really drill down and you look 951 00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,719 Speaker 1: at the data, it showed that a strong majority of 952 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,720 Speaker 1: both married and single women voiced support for Barack Obama. 953 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,960 Speaker 1: So again, this is something that we remember hearing back 954 00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,960 Speaker 1: in women love Barack Obama. They're gonna be you know, 955 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:16,000 Speaker 1: swing the vote, YadA YadA. Durante argued that, yes, that 956 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:21,160 Speaker 1: was in general, but the differences themselves arose near ovulation. 957 00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,520 Speaker 1: So she was saying, yeah, if you look in general 958 00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:29,680 Speaker 1: at how these women veered politically, yes, they tilted toward Obama, 959 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:34,560 Speaker 1: but the differences showed up when they're ovulating. Her final thing, 960 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,360 Speaker 1: she said, look, the door is open to build on 961 00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,640 Speaker 1: this research line. You can replicate it and expand upon it, which, 962 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,440 Speaker 1: as we know, somebody did. Uh. And there was one 963 00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,120 Speaker 1: other exchange that was outside of this Chronicle of Higher 964 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,240 Speaker 1: Education UH interview, where she said that understanding the causes 965 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,720 Speaker 1: of behavior can help change it. So if we know 966 00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:59,160 Speaker 1: that the ovulatory cycle is subconsciously biasing women's behavior in 967 00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,760 Speaker 1: a particular way, it's important to know this so that 968 00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,920 Speaker 1: women can d bias their behavior. And then this is 969 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,520 Speaker 1: a direct quote. After all, knowing the causes of our 970 00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:13,640 Speaker 1: behavior empowers us to have more control over our choices. 971 00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:19,160 Speaker 1: So that is the gist. She's done a lot more studies, 972 00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,160 Speaker 1: but these were the ones that were relevant to what 973 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,680 Speaker 1: I think is the most important takeaway from this, which 974 00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,120 Speaker 1: is where is this all going? Well, it suggests that 975 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,160 Speaker 1: ovulating women are going to be more responsive to advertising, 976 00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:36,800 Speaker 1: promotions and messages. Uh. And then subsequently, Uh, these messages 977 00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,160 Speaker 1: are going to emphasize, hey, if you buy our product, 978 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,720 Speaker 1: you're gonna have positional superiority over other women. And like 979 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,280 Speaker 1: we said, earlier. Regardless of whether or not Robert or 980 00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:51,400 Speaker 1: I or you listening believe in these studies and and 981 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:55,080 Speaker 1: find them to be valid, there are certainly marketers out 982 00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,480 Speaker 1: there who have read these and are are rubbing their 983 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,360 Speaker 1: hands together and planning their their attack. Right. Uh, it 984 00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:06,560 Speaker 1: suggests that marketers who can't ascertain a women's cycle information 985 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,440 Speaker 1: directly could use a twenty eight day marketing method based 986 00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:12,920 Speaker 1: on their purchase histories. I think I mentioned that earlier. 987 00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,480 Speaker 1: Using that information, they would then strategically send out messages 988 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:21,960 Speaker 1: that emphasize female competition, specifically when female consumers would be 989 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:26,760 Speaker 1: more responsive to these appeals during their ovulatory phase. Uh. So, 990 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:28,640 Speaker 1: I want to just pause here for a second. Like, 991 00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,640 Speaker 1: next time I'm listening to a podcast, or I'm on 992 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,920 Speaker 1: an app, I'm reading the news, or I'm watching TV 993 00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,640 Speaker 1: and some commercials pop up, I'm gonna be paying attention 994 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,600 Speaker 1: for the ads that specifically show competition between women, because 995 00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,280 Speaker 1: I'm curious if this is going to be a trend 996 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,840 Speaker 1: now that we're seeing. Yeah, it's interesting when you consider 997 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,600 Speaker 1: just like tracking not only what you're buying, but also 998 00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,240 Speaker 1: what you're shopping for. The I can't help but think 999 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:58,160 Speaker 1: of the interactions you see between Amazon and Facebook based 1000 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,120 Speaker 1: on your your browsing history, Like I do one search 1001 01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,480 Speaker 1: for black Plato and then all I'm saying is his 1002 01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:09,120 Speaker 1: advertisements for black Plato on Facebook and Amazon is keeping 1003 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,160 Speaker 1: track of what you're looking at when you're looking at them. 1004 01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,320 Speaker 1: And now I don't know to what extent they're actually 1005 01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,480 Speaker 1: incorporating this marketing approach, but you can see where it 1006 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,320 Speaker 1: would be very easy for them to to do it, 1007 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:23,320 Speaker 1: to at least extrapolate a rough ovulation cycle for a 1008 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:27,720 Speaker 1: given user based on what they've been looking at on Amazon. 1009 01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,360 Speaker 1: What would be even scarier to me is, you know, 1010 01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,920 Speaker 1: I have never downloaded one of these ovulation apps, but 1011 01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,480 Speaker 1: I would imagine that the terms of service probably allow 1012 01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:41,000 Speaker 1: them to share that information with third parties, right, Like 1013 01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,439 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but like so they could say, well, 1014 01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:50,800 Speaker 1: I've got information on Christina Sager, right, and uh, this 1015 01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,320 Speaker 1: is when she ovulates. I'm going to sell this to 1016 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,000 Speaker 1: you know, Amazon, or I'm going to sell this to 1017 01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:01,680 Speaker 1: like these third party uh Internet advertise users. So you know, 1018 01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,880 Speaker 1: it's it's that's the insidious part to me, And that's 1019 01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:06,960 Speaker 1: the part that kind of like really shocked me when 1020 01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,680 Speaker 1: I saw her present this information live was like, whoa 1021 01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,000 Speaker 1: that is? That is like a new level. And think 1022 01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:15,680 Speaker 1: about it, Like that's just one thing that we're tracking. 1023 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,400 Speaker 1: Think about all the other things that are being tracked 1024 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,200 Speaker 1: based on, like our browsing histories or like our our 1025 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,120 Speaker 1: mobile phone interactions. You know, you can and you can 1026 01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,000 Speaker 1: you can compare all these different timelines such as what's 1027 01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:32,720 Speaker 1: going on in the news, totally seasonal information. Uh really 1028 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,960 Speaker 1: kind of breaks down our sense of autonomy after a while. Yeah, um, 1029 01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,240 Speaker 1: all right, I said this at the top, but I 1030 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,520 Speaker 1: want to reiterate this. I really don't want the takeaway 1031 01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:48,440 Speaker 1: here to be something as traditionally chauvinistic as well, women 1032 01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:53,560 Speaker 1: can't be trusted because of their bodies, right, Like that's ridiculous. Uh, 1033 01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:57,439 Speaker 1: this is interesting psychology and biology. It does not mean 1034 01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,680 Speaker 1: that women are incapable of making rational decisions though. Yeah, yeah, 1035 01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,080 Speaker 1: no more than than men. Uh for sure. Yeah. I 1036 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,880 Speaker 1: think the advantage in examining this research, or any research 1037 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,120 Speaker 1: like this, is to take it and compare it to 1038 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:13,960 Speaker 1: your own decisions. You know, not necessarily to second guess 1039 01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,920 Speaker 1: your instincts, but ask questions about your behavior. Um, you know, 1040 01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,080 Speaker 1: research on same male sex driven consumer choices have certainly 1041 01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:25,040 Speaker 1: forced me to stop and examine, you know, to say, well, 1042 01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,160 Speaker 1: why am I considering this album over and now there? 1043 01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,080 Speaker 1: Why am I considering uh you know this, uh, this, 1044 01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:33,560 Speaker 1: this movie, this TV title whatever. Uh. So it's not 1045 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,320 Speaker 1: about it's not about seeing the puppeteer strings and accepting 1046 01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,040 Speaker 1: them or even about breaking them, but figuring out, like 1047 01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,760 Speaker 1: what is the shape of your own autonomy and uh 1048 01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,320 Speaker 1: and and what are some of the many factors that 1049 01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,760 Speaker 1: are influencing your behavior? Yeah, I mean I thought the 1050 01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:52,400 Speaker 1: same thing. I'm like, I have absolutely had moments where like, 1051 01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I'm sad or I'm in kind 1052 01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,440 Speaker 1: of like a different mood, and they go and I'm 1053 01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,280 Speaker 1: gonna do I'm gonna go to the comic books store 1054 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,920 Speaker 1: and just buy a big pile of comic books or 1055 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,360 Speaker 1: or I'll buy a bunch of records. You know, they'll 1056 01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:09,280 Speaker 1: they'll make me feel better. And who knows what kind 1057 01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:13,600 Speaker 1: of hormonal fluctuations I'm going through when that's happening. Who 1058 01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,880 Speaker 1: knows is actually important here because like maybe we should 1059 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,400 Speaker 1: be tracking that in men as well. It's worth remembering 1060 01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:24,560 Speaker 1: there's research that other hormones like testosterone and cortisol also 1061 01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:28,600 Speaker 1: have effects on important human behaviors. So look, men aren't 1062 01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,160 Speaker 1: off the hook here, uh, And maybe that's a future 1063 01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:33,400 Speaker 1: episode for us to consider. So if if you're interested 1064 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:35,200 Speaker 1: in that, you know, maybe we can look into seeing 1065 01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:39,920 Speaker 1: if there's studies related to that. So that is the 1066 01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:44,200 Speaker 1: breakdown here, controversial stuff. I think it's kind of interesting though, 1067 01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:46,720 Speaker 1: especially when you when you put in the business aspects. 1068 01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,640 Speaker 1: So what do you out there think? You know, you've 1069 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,520 Speaker 1: heard these arguments, You've heard this research, do you agree 1070 01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,560 Speaker 1: with it, do you agree with the criticisms of it? 1071 01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,320 Speaker 1: And what do you think about this marketing? Like is 1072 01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,280 Speaker 1: this a valid route for us to be going down 1073 01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:06,480 Speaker 1: in a capitalistic society? Which is basically like let's figure 1074 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,920 Speaker 1: out how to aim like laser focus to their biology 1075 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,160 Speaker 1: and that's how we'll get them to spend money to 1076 01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:15,880 Speaker 1: other contracts. Yeah, it's like hormonal mind reading or even 1077 01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,280 Speaker 1: hormonal mind control. Right, So you can let us know. 1078 01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,400 Speaker 1: We're on Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler, and Instagram. Those are all 1079 01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:25,880 Speaker 1: places where you can talk to us or find this 1080 01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,480 Speaker 1: episode and download it. So check it out and remember 1081 01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,680 Speaker 1: Tripod month is going on, and I recommend that you 1082 01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,760 Speaker 1: try slings and arrows, which is where I learned about 1083 01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,600 Speaker 1: Christina Durante's research to begin with. You can find this 1084 01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:41,320 Speaker 1: episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind and all other episodes, 1085 01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,600 Speaker 1: including videos, blog posts, et cetera, at stuff to Blow 1086 01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:46,320 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com and if you want to send 1087 01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,640 Speaker 1: us an email to give us your feedback on this 1088 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,520 Speaker 1: episode or others that we've recorded, to simply shoot us 1089 01:04:51,520 --> 01:05:04,960 Speaker 1: one at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com. 1090 01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,440 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is 1091 01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:23,360 Speaker 1: that how stuff Works dot com. The Big f