Speaker 1: M m.
Speaker 2: My baby said he wants to be free, but it
Speaker 2: is said me.
Speaker 1: Tried loving chrystals and singing time.
Speaker 2: Plays. I thought I could tummle his heart, but it's
Speaker 2: a fall look for me. It's just fallenough for me.
Speaker 3: It's welcome back.
Speaker 2: To good mom's back choices.
Speaker 4: I'm Mela, I'm Eric from Happy Wednesday, Happy Home Day.
Speaker 2: We have a special guest today.
Speaker 4: You'll we have bree aka at be on Instagram, which,
Speaker 4: by the way, I love that Instagram.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I was really stoked to think about it for a minute,
Speaker 1: but it was happy with what I came up.
Speaker 4: With, and we we we reached out to Beleche because
Speaker 4: as you know, Jamila and I have had throughout our podcast,
Speaker 4: as you've if you've grown with us, you know we've
Speaker 4: had we've gone through a lot of a journey about
Speaker 4: like how we feel about relationships and as they've returned,
Speaker 4: as they pertained to monogamy, openness and all those things.
Speaker 4: I was in a monogous relationship, well one sided monogamous relationship,
Speaker 4: and then you know, in my singleness kind of started
Speaker 4: to explore open relationships and more recently have kind of
Speaker 4: decided that I'm not sure they're for me. Well really,
Speaker 4: I said they're not for me. Still, like there's like
Speaker 4: this well still there's like a still like a crack
Speaker 4: of a door open. I'm like, I kind of like
Speaker 4: I'm still like on the fence about it because I
Speaker 4: don't really believe monogamy is natural. Not I don't really
Speaker 4: I don't believe monogamy is natural. But I'm also possessive
Speaker 4: and I need to know.
Speaker 2: I'm that bitch number one, number one no, And it's
Speaker 2: just weird. Basically we're in limbo.
Speaker 4: Basically, even some listeners reach out to us and being
Speaker 4: like how could you flip?
Speaker 2: I really like this is this last episode and like
Speaker 2: her beat what the fuck? You guys are changed your mind?
Speaker 2: You guys are open and cool and now who are you?
Speaker 2: Are you? How dare you be conservative? What is this?
Speaker 2: Go to church?
Speaker 4: What's happening? And I'm like, I don't know, I'm trying
Speaker 4: to figure it out. And then you know, I saw
Speaker 4: that you know, you've been an open relationship for a
Speaker 4: long time. And for me, like I've never met anyone
Speaker 4: that's been in a successful open relationship for an extended
Speaker 4: amount of time. It's always been like pretty short and
Speaker 4: our last or a few guess ago, we had on
Speaker 4: Afne Wayne's who had a lot of strong opinions on
Speaker 4: open relationship. And she's she's older, she's five kids, you know,
Speaker 4: she's you know, she doesn't really believe in dating. She
Speaker 4: really her whole idea of like relationships is to be married.
Speaker 2: And somehow her thinking has like I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's which polluted my brain or if I agree with it,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I know she was very convincing.
Speaker 1: She's like really well spoken, so spoke.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so soft, A very delicate woman
Speaker 2: talking about very delicate man. Yes, I agree. No, I
Speaker 2: feel the same way. And it's really strange for me
Speaker 2: to admit it because I am a very free spirit.
Speaker 2: I like to flight with everybody. I hate to be
Speaker 2: limited in that I hate for someone to tell me
Speaker 2: what to do, which is probably my number one issue.
Speaker 2: Don't tell me what to do. So but I do
Speaker 2: also have a little bit of I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't want to call it security your ownership or
Speaker 2: it's not ownership. I don't want to own you because
Speaker 2: don't want to tell Anea what to do. I'm not
Speaker 2: your mom, but I do just want him to know
Speaker 2: what you want. I want to do. Yeah, you read
Speaker 2: my mind and remind me that I'm number one at
Speaker 2: all times, and then everyone falls at waystside. She's cute
Speaker 2: and not cuter than me, right, And I mean you
Speaker 2: can still do that in an open relationship. Right. So
Speaker 2: I'm learning that I thought I told young Berry last
Speaker 2: time I was there, I was like, oh, by the way,
Speaker 2: I don't believe enoughing relationships anymore. I'm over that. It's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: by the way, update on my status. I'm not into
Speaker 2: that anymore. But that part of me is dead. That
Speaker 2: part of me is dead. So you're sho'd be very
Speaker 2: happy to hear that or unhappy or no. He wasn't
Speaker 2: with it was never with them. I was just like, oh,
Speaker 2: why don't you want to just be open? And then
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I'm not sharing. So I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, I wanted to tell you, by the way,
Speaker 2: i'm your dream wife. Now I've changed with the lies
Speaker 2: the lies, But again now that we I'm back on
Speaker 2: the fence again. I don't know. I don't know because
Speaker 2: I don't want any rules. But it doesn't mean I
Speaker 2: necessarily want to bang everybody else, but I also would
Speaker 2: like to bring a girl home sometimes. And then also
Speaker 2: like what if you think a guy's fine and you're
Speaker 2: in like Mexico, right, I mean, there's a million of
Speaker 2: situation to consider.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so can you just tell us a little bit
Speaker 4: about you and your mama? A one year old's one
Speaker 4: year old year old year old and you've been.
Speaker 3: Married for it'll be five years this summer.
Speaker 4: And in this relationship with him for though, like you said.
Speaker 2: Ten years. Yeah, so you know him since you were
Speaker 2: twenty one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we met when we were babies.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, And I.
Speaker 1: Mean I think that's a part of the reason why
Speaker 1: we decided to be open, because so.
Speaker 2: Even since you were twenty one, you've been open.
Speaker 1: Well, how it all started was I met Daniel's my
Speaker 1: husband's name.
Speaker 2: I met Daniel.
Speaker 3: We were twenty one.
Speaker 1: We had a magical night together, but I already had
Speaker 1: a boyfriend, and I was immediately very conflicted. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't my first time in that situation. It was kind
Speaker 1: of a thing, a pattern I realized that I was repeating,
Speaker 1: is that I would be cheating, and so I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, is there something wrong with me,
Speaker 1: and it threw me into a little bit of a
Speaker 1: spiral because I really did love my boyfriend at the time,
Speaker 1: but I also really loved this new.
Speaker 2: Person that I just met.
Speaker 1: So what ended up happening is I had to make
Speaker 1: a decision, and I literally was like physically ill over it,
Speaker 1: but I chose my now husband, and months into that
Speaker 1: my relationship with him, I was still thinking about it, like, well,
Speaker 1: is there a different way to do things? Like is
Speaker 1: monogamy the only answer? And I was twenty one, and
Speaker 1: I'd kind of like, I don't think I knew the
Speaker 1: open relationships existed, or I'd only my only context was cheating,
Speaker 1: and like, there's been cheating in my family history too,
Speaker 1: so just a lot of negative connotations with it. But
Speaker 1: I hopped on the internet and like, I learned that
Speaker 1: a lot of people were doing it, and I learned
Speaker 1: the term polyamory, which, if people aren't familiar, it means
Speaker 1: many loves. It's just the idea that we can love
Speaker 1: more than one person romantically at the same time, that
Speaker 1: there's not like a finite amount of.
Speaker 2: Love we have to give in that way.
Speaker 1: So came across this idea and I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's me, this is me, And I was
Speaker 1: so excited.
Speaker 2: And I told Daniel about it, and he was a
Speaker 2: little nervous, but he has.
Speaker 5: He had never been in a relationship like that, right, neither,
Speaker 5: and so he was very open to it though, and
Speaker 5: really he just loves me so much and he wants
Speaker 5: me to be happy, and so he's.
Speaker 2: Like, Okay, yeah, let's see what that's all about.
Speaker 1: And so throughout our ten years together, being open has
Speaker 1: looked very different because we're individuals that are constantly changing
Speaker 1: and growing, and our relationship is always different because of
Speaker 1: that too, and our needs are always different. So at
Speaker 1: the beginning, it was like I'd make out with someone
Speaker 1: that when I was at a bar with friends and
Speaker 1: I thought was cute, you know, like, and then it's
Speaker 1: been and.
Speaker 4: Then would you tell him that? Like, so that was
Speaker 4: the deal? Like what was in the beginning.
Speaker 1: I think it's funny as a long time it was
Speaker 1: hard to remember, but I think in the beginning it
Speaker 1: I would I wouldn't have to ask before it happened,
Speaker 1: but he would want to know afterwards. But casual sex
Speaker 1: still like wasn't something that I was really doing anyways.
Speaker 1: So we didn't have to have that conversation of like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: can you have sex with other people until later, So
Speaker 1: it's really been like slow, I.
Speaker 2: Guess, at different phases.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's had it's had very different phases at
Speaker 1: at some points. It's been one of the things that
Speaker 1: when you guys spoke to Daphne that I a misconception
Speaker 1: about non monogamy that she kind of highlighted was that
Speaker 1: it's about sex and that people in open relationships, you know,
Speaker 1: they just want to fuck up people.
Speaker 2: And that's not what it has.
Speaker 3: Really ever been for my partner and I.
Speaker 1: Not ever, there's been times, but what it's always been
Speaker 1: for us is I don't want to limit his experiences.
Speaker 1: And I think that when you decide that your partner
Speaker 1: can no longer be intimate with another person, you're just
Speaker 1: limiting them so much like and intimacy can look, as
Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, like a bunch of different ways.
Speaker 1: It can be deep friendship where you're meeting up with
Speaker 1: someone and cuddling and talking until three in the morning,
Speaker 1: or it can mean meeting up with someone and fucking
Speaker 1: you know, it's always different. But I think that when
Speaker 1: you don't allow your partner intimacy with other people, you're
Speaker 1: really limiting their life experience and their growth. And I
Speaker 1: think that that's something that we just kind of agreed
Speaker 1: we didn't want to do.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of the basis.
Speaker 2: I read a book once. I can't think about what
Speaker 2: book it is, and because that's one thing. When's the
Speaker 2: first time I was introduced to polyamory, I was that
Speaker 2: that makes sense. Oh, that that resignates with me. And
Speaker 2: that was literally I was probably like eighteen or nineteen
Speaker 2: and I read something and it was rather profound, and
Speaker 2: I think I've said this before in another podcast, but
Speaker 2: it was about limiting love and not just intimacy. So
Speaker 2: it was basically saying, if I tell Erica could only
Speaker 2: love me intimately, like if you look at this person,
Speaker 2: that's where you do this with that person. You're actually
Speaker 2: coaching someone to learn how to limit their love. And
Speaker 2: when you teach the one to limit their love, they'll
Speaker 2: start to limit their love with you because the act
Speaker 2: of practicing limiting, putting your love in a box will
Speaker 2: inevitably flow into other parts and places where you love
Speaker 2: other things and people, and subconsciously it becomes a little
Speaker 2: bit resentful and that also made sense to me, and
Speaker 2: and and for me, I think it's the same I had.
Speaker 2: I had to come to this point to be like,
Speaker 2: it's not about necessarily fucking everybody else, but just the
Speaker 2: freedom to know that I have the choice to do
Speaker 2: what I want to do, and that it's like in no,
Speaker 2: in no circumstances it jeopardized relationship with you, But I'm
Speaker 2: not being limited in my flow of love and that resting.
Speaker 2: If you know me, I'm a I'm a flowing, loving person.
Speaker 2: I don't want to love everyone. I want everyone I feel.
Speaker 2: I feel deeply about loving people and connecting with people.
Speaker 2: So like, yeah, I don't want to be in the
Speaker 2: club and someone's staring me down because I'm having five
Speaker 2: minutes too long of a conversation with someone and we're
Speaker 2: talking about his grandmother, you know, like calm down. So
Speaker 2: I get I do understand that. But on the flip side,
Speaker 2: lost a lot on the flip side, But like, would
Speaker 2: I feel the same way if somebody was having a
Speaker 2: long ass conversation in a nightclub and I'm looking them like,
Speaker 2: But I think it has a lot to do with
Speaker 2: the fundamentals and the foundation of the relationship and the
Speaker 2: respect level and the love that you're secure with. And
Speaker 2: I realized even having this discussion that me feeling that
Speaker 2: crazy laugh right there is just like my insecurity, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And I even thought about in
Speaker 2: my openness when I when I was siding with Deafne,
Speaker 2: when I was going more on my monogamous side, I
Speaker 2: was thinking, oh my god, I only wanted to be
Speaker 2: in an open relationship because I was I am scared
Speaker 2: of commitment and also I'm scared of someone not fully
Speaker 2: committing to me. And if we can keep it open,
Speaker 2: then I'm not vulnerable and getting hurt or betrayed and
Speaker 2: then like having to compare myself to the person that
Speaker 2: stole you and having to kill her. But or you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. So there's so many there's so
Speaker 2: many ways to look at it, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 2: am I just being fucking psychoed insecure? Am I? You
Speaker 2: know what I mean? There's just like I think, in
Speaker 2: exploring which side of the spectrum you resonate with, you
Speaker 2: really have to go deep inside yourself and heal and heal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that's what it is.
Speaker 1: That's what I really That's an aspect of it that
Speaker 1: Daniel and I also have. Really it's been hard, but
Speaker 1: we've really it's been rewarding. Is that we've had to
Speaker 1: face so many insecurities and so many fears and just
Speaker 1: things that we wouldn't face if.
Speaker 2: We weren't in an open relationship.
Speaker 1: And that's been really so hard, so so hard, but also,
Speaker 1: like I said, just really rewarding. And I feel like
Speaker 1: it's helped us both to grow as individuals and it's
Speaker 1: really deepened our marriage. And yeah, I mean, but I
Speaker 1: also I also want to say, this is really important
Speaker 1: for me to say, is I don't think that an
Speaker 1: open relationship is superior to monogamy. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people who are in either camp will say that
Speaker 1: one is superior either, and I am not of that opinion.
Speaker 1: I think that everyone has to decide what's right for them,
Speaker 1: and I even think that, like, just because an open
Speaker 1: really ship works for Daniel and I, maybe it wouldn't
Speaker 1: work for me and another person and monogamy might be
Speaker 1: the better option.
Speaker 3: I just think you gotta do what's best.
Speaker 2: For you, right, and it's not like a one size fit.
Speaker 2: So Okay, I have a question. I went on a
Speaker 2: date with this guy. And when we got there, he's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm in an open marriage. And I was like, wait, wait,
Speaker 2: hold on, so you're married right now, like right now,
Speaker 2: like right the second I was like, I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: so you live with your wife? He's like yeah, Like
Speaker 2: because you told me he lived up the street. I'm like,
Speaker 2: so she's up the street. And I was so perplexed,
Speaker 2: not because I've never been in a situation like that,
Speaker 2: because you know, like I'm all four and probably in
Speaker 2: my twentieside it'd be like, well, we've been better. He's
Speaker 2: not going to like stalk me. But I realized then.
Speaker 2: First I was a little irritated and didn't mention it
Speaker 2: before I got there, because first of I'm here for
Speaker 2: the meal, but maybe I would want to know that.
Speaker 2: But I asked him. I said, so, have you ever
Speaker 2: had a side relationship and how and he said yeah.
Speaker 2: I said, well, how long did that last? He said
Speaker 2: three years? And then said well what happened? And he said,
Speaker 2: well she wanted more. And the first thing I thought
Speaker 2: is like, eh, yep, And I thought, damn, this is
Speaker 2: another reason that switched my thinking as the third person,
Speaker 2: you know, not in the initial relationship as I thought,
Speaker 2: to me, it's selfish if I okay, because there's different types,
Speaker 2: like you said, I wouldn't know. Also the difference between
Speaker 2: open and Polly, if there's a difference. But to me,
Speaker 2: it's like I've asked guys like, okay, so do you
Speaker 2: want two wives? And some guys are like yeah, I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: that makes more sense if there's a space where we
Speaker 2: could all coexist permanently, I get it. But if not,
Speaker 2: Like me, I'm thirty one, what the fuck am I
Speaker 2: here for? I have a kid, like I'm my heir
Speaker 2: of like, fuck you and you go home. And also
Speaker 2: I don't like that, he explained, like, you know, basically,
Speaker 2: my wife is priority. If she needs me, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 2: That isn't resonating well with me. What if I need you?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? To me, it felt selfish,
Speaker 2: and I would be like, even if I'm in a
Speaker 2: marriage or in a relationship, I wouldn't even ask anyone
Speaker 2: else to do that because it's selfish for you guys.
Speaker 2: How does that work with you? Guys?
Speaker 1: No, that's your hitting on something I think really really
Speaker 1: big and important and hard.
Speaker 2: I've been.
Speaker 1: I was also in a three year relationship and it
Speaker 1: worked really well because he was younger. I was twenty
Speaker 1: seven and he was twenty four at the time when
Speaker 1: we met. And he's a creative he's in a band.
Speaker 1: That's his priority, and so we didn't run into the
Speaker 1: problem of him wanting or needing more because what I
Speaker 1: had to give with from like in an open relationship
Speaker 1: still being married, was totally enough for him. And it
Speaker 1: worked for a really long time. But then I got
Speaker 1: pregnant and I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got pregnant, and I was, I mean, he's still
Speaker 1: a dear, dear friend. It was a beautiful relationship, but
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, I'm like, a baby is gonna come,
Speaker 1: like and my time is going to be even more limited.
Speaker 1: Like we got to start thinking about this, like what
Speaker 1: is it going to mean for us? And we had
Speaker 1: really great communication at that point because we've been together
Speaker 1: for a while and he really wanted to push through
Speaker 1: and kind of see and I was like all right.
Speaker 1: And then when I was around like four or five
Speaker 1: months pregnant, he actually met somebody else. And throughout our relationship,
Speaker 1: I always encouraged him to see other people.
Speaker 2: He didn't really he did from.
Speaker 1: Time to time, but because he was very busy and
Speaker 1: I was seeing him like maybe once or twice a week,
Speaker 1: that was really.
Speaker 3: Working for him.
Speaker 1: But he met somebody else and he found himself on
Speaker 1: the other side. Going over there, he found he found
Speaker 1: himself on like my side, where he was having to
Speaker 1: navigate like two different people's feelings mine and then this
Speaker 1: new woman he was seeing and he couldn't handle it,
Speaker 1: and he broke down to me. He just like broke
Speaker 1: down and He's like, I can't I can't do this.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. I met somebody else.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm so happy for you, Like I
Speaker 1: there is a limit to how much I'm going to
Speaker 1: be able to give you in our relationship together, Like
Speaker 1: maybe if we were together for like ten years, we
Speaker 1: would have to start discussing something like Okay, are you like,
Speaker 1: are you like a second husband?
Speaker 2: Like, are we gonna have to introduce you to the family,
Speaker 2: like I can stay the chance? Did you ever meet
Speaker 2: your husband? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did?
Speaker 2: Were they cool? They were cool?
Speaker 1: I think that that was challenging because masculinity is hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was I was gonna say that to you.
Speaker 2: Masculinity period. I think Unfortunately because of the society you
Speaker 2: live in, it's easier for a man to navigate an
Speaker 2: open relationship totally because you got pregnant. Yeah, Now there's
Speaker 2: this visual like reminder and like, are you gonna have
Speaker 2: sex with me? Is it gonna be something for your
Speaker 2: husband too? Oh? That's my baby up in there, Like
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. There's all these concepts, and
Speaker 2: then even for like just a man period, like, oh,
Speaker 2: you have a husband and so like you fucking him? Roll.
Speaker 2: There's all these toxic masculinities that make it easier for
Speaker 2: a man to maintain that role, whereas a woman there's
Speaker 2: all these double standards and then your mom now great,
Speaker 2: you know so I think that's rather has it happened
Speaker 2: on the like Daniel having a separate relationship, he has it.
Speaker 1: His have mostly been flings or just one night stands.
Speaker 1: He hasn't really found anyone that he's dated long term.
Speaker 3: He is still kind.
Speaker 1: Of deciding how he wants the open marriage to look
Speaker 1: for himself, like what feels best. Yeah, and I've had
Speaker 1: more practice at this point. And that's also a personality difference.
Speaker 1: I'm just more of an extrovert. I work at a
Speaker 1: bar people, Yeah, he's a teacher, he's more teachers.
Speaker 2: Don't let you've had a few educators on.
Speaker 1: I'm always like, wait, what's going on? Okay, l No,
Speaker 1: I mean cats can't be freaking. I'm just saying, it's
Speaker 1: not really a place, not at a bar.
Speaker 4: Obviously, you're you're more you're engaging with people that are open, free,
Speaker 4: like open, but they're there to meet people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there is something to like you always have
Speaker 1: to keep in mind in an open relationship when you're
Speaker 1: when you're dating other people.
Speaker 3: And I think that.
Speaker 1: People who are new to non monogamy, they don't realize this.
Speaker 1: And I've like coached people through this a little bit,
Speaker 1: is you have to understand that in your relationships that
Speaker 1: are not if you're in the primary that are not
Speaker 1: your primary relationship, there's going to be a lot of
Speaker 1: hurt and there's going to be a lot of endings.
Speaker 2: Because how far can you take this? How far can
Speaker 2: you're literally in the market for a second exactly?
Speaker 1: And so and I think people like oftentimes aren't ready
Speaker 1: for that because it's hard, Like breaking up is never.
Speaker 3: Fun, it's never easy.
Speaker 1: But in non monogamy, you have to understand that that
Speaker 1: is almost one hundred percent of the time what the
Speaker 1: outcome is going to be.
Speaker 4: So so with that, because you're in an open marriage,
Speaker 4: when you decide to date someone, they know that you're
Speaker 4: Is there a priority? Is your is your husband the priority?
Speaker 4: Or is that just like or is it just and
Speaker 4: everyone is on one even playing field.
Speaker 2: I think that you're limiting.
Speaker 1: There's there's a concept called relationship anarchy, and in that concept,
Speaker 1: you're not prioritizing one over the other. But because Daniel
Speaker 1: and I are married and because it's our agreement that
Speaker 1: we are each other's priority, that's the way that we
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 2: But people do it no, I know, I'm just curious
Speaker 2: about how you are. That's that's the way that we
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 3: And people are generally really understanding of that.
Speaker 2: So do do you guys bring people home like in
Speaker 2: a group setting?
Speaker 3: And we haven't.
Speaker 1: We we still there's a lot of exploring we still
Speaker 1: have to do.
Speaker 2: Are you guys open to doing that? We are?
Speaker 3: We are open, Like there's a.
Speaker 2: Lot of the do like girls.
Speaker 1: I'm I identify as hetero flexible because I definitely.
Speaker 2: Many words today? What is it discipline?
Speaker 4: Discipline today and hetereral.
Speaker 3: Flexible hetero flexible.
Speaker 1: I because I'm ninety nine times out of one hundred,
Speaker 1: I'll be attracted to men versus women.
Speaker 3: But every once in a while, I'm like.
Speaker 1: Oh, maybe I would She's I'm really attracted to this woman,
Speaker 1: but I've never been with a woman.
Speaker 3: I still would like to I'm still open to it.
Speaker 4: But that's another like people assume that if you're an
Speaker 4: open relationship, do you must be just.
Speaker 2: Total women get totally right.
Speaker 1: That's another common misconception, and I think, I mean, I
Speaker 1: like to think that Daniel and are gonna get really
Speaker 1: wild in our forties once kids like once our season
Speaker 1: of parenting young babies and children is kind of passed.
Speaker 1: But that's not how it's been so far.
Speaker 2: Do your okay? So you mentioned that you're you're group
Speaker 2: of like parent friends are kind of square. Are they
Speaker 2: aware of like the type of relationship you with Daniel have?
Speaker 2: They are? They are?
Speaker 1: But I think I don't think that every one of
Speaker 1: them is comfortable talking about it.
Speaker 2: So they know, but they don't.
Speaker 3: Talk about it kind of.
Speaker 2: She said they're all of her mom like her parent
Speaker 2: friends are kind of conservative.
Speaker 1: I was I thought they're more conservative more than we are.
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, because of where.
Speaker 2: You it's because of where I live.
Speaker 1: It's because if Daniel and I actually used to go
Speaker 1: we went to a Christian college is where we met.
Speaker 1: This is so so a lot of our friends are
Speaker 1: like also form Christian, former Christians, some of them still are.
Speaker 1: But that's just the circle that we've been in. You know,
Speaker 1: it's nothing happy.
Speaker 3: You found us.
Speaker 2: The little devil comes up.
Speaker 1: No, they're all amazing friends, amazing people.
Speaker 2: It's just on this, on this particular topic, we don't
Speaker 2: really relate. I guess I sound like an anti religious heathen.
Speaker 2: That's not what I meant by that. No, I like
Speaker 2: presidents too, have the been my family like people like
Speaker 2: I have four black friends. Okay, so now that you
Speaker 2: have a small child and you're navigating this open relationship,
Speaker 2: how do you how do you like intend on introducing
Speaker 2: that in an apparent style, I know, like having an
Speaker 2: alternative relationship? Is the questions like, well, what do you
Speaker 2: have kids? What are you going to do? Yeah? Because kids,
Speaker 2: you know, stop everything right right? Not really, but how
Speaker 2: do you how do you intend on like expressing that
Speaker 2: or you know, introducing that to your kids? Dannel, I
Speaker 2: haven't talked about this in a while, but if I'm
Speaker 2: remembering correctly.
Speaker 1: The last time we talked about it, I mean, because
Speaker 1: it would be coming up for a few more years, obviously.
Speaker 2: Be careful. The four comes up quickly, scary.
Speaker 1: But I think that we we don't want to make
Speaker 1: a big deal about it. I think we just want
Speaker 1: to treat it as very normal, because it shouldn't.
Speaker 3: It shouldn't be treated any other way.
Speaker 1: And I think just like, oh, like Daddy's going out tonight,
Speaker 1: he's hanging out with a friend.
Speaker 3: Who's the friend?
Speaker 1: Oh so and so like I think, just being as
Speaker 1: transparent without giving too much information.
Speaker 2: When you are dating someone, are you guys? Do you
Speaker 2: in public?
Speaker 4: Are you do go like public places and be in
Speaker 4: like like if someone saw you out with the guy
Speaker 4: you were dating, would that.
Speaker 2: You're his girl? Like you are his girlfriend? You know
Speaker 2: what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like, Oh, this must be like a relationship on its
Speaker 4: own regularly, right?
Speaker 2: Does that happen? Yeah? Yeah? If only I only had
Speaker 2: the one like besides that.
Speaker 4: One three year relationship, I only I was only always
Speaker 4: I'm asking it's because I think about this couldn't probably
Speaker 4: never happen, But I what if, like your child is older,
Speaker 4: like it's a teenager, and his friend sees you out
Speaker 4: and doesn't undergo your relationship and sees you out being
Speaker 4: intimate with or you.
Speaker 2: Know, having PDA with me never met.
Speaker 4: How would you arm your child, not arm them, but
Speaker 4: like how to be able to explain that to their
Speaker 4: friend or not.
Speaker 2: You know, I just I'm just curious, like I have
Speaker 2: I've never never that's a good question.
Speaker 1: I really hope that by then, like my child would
Speaker 1: have a complete understanding of what we were doing. And
Speaker 1: I think that I don't know, I just don't think
Speaker 1: an open marriage is that unusual these days.
Speaker 3: I think that a lot of people are a lot
Speaker 3: more people are.
Speaker 2: Doing it.
Speaker 1: Based off like people I've just met, and even like
Speaker 1: dating apps are more conducive to it, like Okaycupid has
Speaker 1: been really great for us because it has an option
Speaker 1: like you can say, oh, I'm in a relationship with
Speaker 1: and you can link your worst profile, so people it's
Speaker 1: all transparent.
Speaker 2: People are like, oh, this is this is.
Speaker 3: What I'm dealing with.
Speaker 6: So I think I think by then, I just don't
Speaker 6: think it's going to be that big of a deal
Speaker 6: and and I'll feel fully equipped just without shame people like, yeah,
Speaker 6: mom and dad see other people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as not as normal as maybe you think it is. No,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that because I think that.
Speaker 4: I just think generally in the population that we live
Speaker 4: in honestly, I mean we live in La so sometimes
Speaker 4: in California we can feel like we live in like
Speaker 4: a bubble.
Speaker 2: Yeah, rust a good bubble. Jamila is I'm gonna.
Speaker 4: Just call you a statist because you're still judgmental when
Speaker 4: it comes to different states. I think California is like, no,
Speaker 4: it's it's like a unicorn state almost in ways, like
Speaker 4: we think sh it's normal.
Speaker 2: That is not normal to everybody else are not. It's
Speaker 2: as awkward and weird as you make it. I think
Speaker 2: if your kid is not like okay, what if you're lesbians,
Speaker 2: I mean had kids in a lesbian relationship, We're going
Speaker 2: to have to address that. No, of course, but I'm
Speaker 2: just saying to her, to her saying that hopefully it's
Speaker 2: going to be normalized. I just don't think. I don't
Speaker 2: think it will be. Maybe more so, I think the
Speaker 2: conversation is starting.
Speaker 4: I mean, like you said, you had to google what
Speaker 4: what years ago? Yeah, and we were having a conversation
Speaker 4: with someone today and she was saying, how like, yeah,
Speaker 4: I just wasn't like because I was saying, like, when
Speaker 4: I was in my twenties, like early twenties, monogamy was
Speaker 4: the only option in my head. There was no other option.
Speaker 4: And that's not because I didn't want there to be.
Speaker 4: I just didn't think it could really exist or what
Speaker 4: it is. And I was a cheater too, And then
Speaker 4: I felt really guilty about that and like forced myself
Speaker 4: into monogamy.
Speaker 2: And then I was like, okay, I can I know
Speaker 2: I can do this, you know, And now I'm back
Speaker 2: in this place where like, Okay, I did it, but
Speaker 2: like did I really like that shit or like what,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I did, Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: I mean also, Daniel and I are really open to
Speaker 1: not being open in the future, Like it works for
Speaker 1: us now and it has worked really well for us
Speaker 1: in the past, but that doesn't mean it's always gonna
Speaker 1: work for us, and we're also open to that possibility,
Speaker 1: like we don't know.
Speaker 2: We don't know in five years are you'd be like
Speaker 2: what the fuck were we doing?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Why did we do that?
Speaker 1: But like right now, it's what works, it's what we
Speaker 1: think is best and we're going with it.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about okay because you mentioned okay
Speaker 2: Cupid has an ation, or how do you feel like, Okay,
Speaker 2: you guys are married, but I'm also going to sign
Speaker 2: up and make a profile to seek out someone else?
Speaker 2: The seeking? How does the seeking make you feel? Because
Speaker 2: it's one thing I feel like, Oh, I met this
Speaker 2: girl at work or I met this guy.
Speaker 1: Well something you were talking about how you met a
Speaker 1: guy and he was married and he didn't tell you beforehand.
Speaker 1: And so Daniel, because it's summertime, he is interested in
Speaker 1: dating now that he has time.
Speaker 3: But it's been difficult.
Speaker 1: Because on his profile says say that he's married and
Speaker 1: people women will.
Speaker 2: Understand, Yeah, they'll shy away from it.
Speaker 1: And so he was like asking me, He's like, should
Speaker 1: I like take off that I'm married? And he's like really,
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to be dishonest, but like and then
Speaker 1: like let them get to know me and then mention yeah.
Speaker 1: But that's like it's a difficult thing to again.
Speaker 2: Like what happened to you?
Speaker 7: Like exactly and maybe clear I wasn't mad. This was
Speaker 7: probably when I was more on my monogamous side of things.
Speaker 7: It was are you Gemini, I'm on the cussed. Okay,
Speaker 7: I'm in the twenty second.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Jim May, Oh okay, okay, you're also cussed.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, how do you know? But it wasn't. I
Speaker 2: was mad, you know, I'm all for this. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is perfect. I need to know more. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I can see we're like a normal chick.
Speaker 2: I would have probably clicked yes either way. I mean
Speaker 2: I found a couple on.
Speaker 4: I mean I was having sex with a married couple
Speaker 4: that I found on, which was like a whole thing
Speaker 4: because I was like this exists, Like I didn't even
Speaker 4: know this. This is at first when I saw then,
Speaker 4: like the picture was a picture of a guy and
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, he's hot. And then it was
Speaker 4: like just the girl and I was like wait what,
Speaker 4: And then it was both of them and I was
Speaker 4: like wait what. I'm like first I was just very confused,
Speaker 4: and then I was like, oh, ship, this is two
Speaker 4: for one.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, and they're fine, Yeah, she found a fine
Speaker 2: and I'm still seeing.
Speaker 4: Them I mean now, and then oh nice, Yeah they're great,
Speaker 4: they're amazing. And then but that's why that's kind of
Speaker 4: like what opened me up to the idea because I
Speaker 4: saw their relationship because they have so much communication and
Speaker 4: they have a son and so their parents too, and
Speaker 4: they're navigating through it and they're beautiful, and I was like,
Speaker 4: I could be with my beautiful ass husband and also like,
Speaker 4: but it's it's not it's I don't she can't go
Speaker 4: sleep with guys though, it's there's no no.
Speaker 2: Remember we learned today, swingers is your primary, is your primary,
Speaker 2: That's what she said. Well, swingers is usually when you
Speaker 2: have like each.
Speaker 3: Of you have like another person that you're.
Speaker 2: Like, that's what that's what. Okay, So okay, I thought
Speaker 2: it was like swap. Yeah, so I thought swingers initially
Speaker 2: was like another couple of another couple and then.
Speaker 3: But it's not.
Speaker 2: Clear, I thought, definis, I don't know. Okay, maybe we
Speaker 2: don't know. She can't sleep with other men and he
Speaker 2: can't sleep with other riches.
Speaker 4: Oh together, they only sleep with people together and it's
Speaker 4: only ever women.
Speaker 2: Okay, that is kind of unfair. Well, he doesn't want
Speaker 2: he's not interested in men, I know, but so she
Speaker 2: likes obviously likes men. I mean, I guess maybe maybe
Speaker 2: that's not maybe that's not what she wants.
Speaker 4: Maybe she really she's satisfied enough with him and just
Speaker 4: wants women.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. I mean like I'm
Speaker 2: having a good time.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's been tricky for him because because of that,
Speaker 1: and so I could see that's difficult.
Speaker 2: I don't remember the question that I was answering, but oh, right,
Speaker 2: but I don't remember. But but that's it.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that dating is just so different for him
Speaker 1: than it is for me, because men are a lot
Speaker 1: more open to dating a married woman than women tend
Speaker 1: seem to be dating another man the women that he has,
Speaker 1: because women.
Speaker 2: Are possessive, we want.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: I think that's what it is. I think women associate
Speaker 2: dating a married mammoth life being a sneaky, skeazy girl,
Speaker 2: even if your wife's aware. I don't know women. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think women just are I don't know. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure what it is. I would feel like men
Speaker 2: would care more.
Speaker 1: And I think that mostly I have actually dated men
Speaker 1: who are also non monogamous, and Daniel has mostly dated
Speaker 1: women that are also non monogamous. That's just kind of
Speaker 1: the way it works best and he's mostly he's mostly
Speaker 1: dated women who are.
Speaker 2: Already in a primary relationship, so that works out, That
Speaker 2: works out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But have you ever met any of his lady friends? No?
Speaker 2: No, How would you feel if you guys meet a
Speaker 2: lady friend and a lady friend? I don't say, so
Speaker 2: ye are consistent and like, okay, and your son's getting older,
Speaker 2: are you gonna let the lady friend be around to
Speaker 2: the sun? What are the rules regarding the visitation?
Speaker 1: I think that with every like with every situation, there
Speaker 1: just has to be so many conversations and yeah, until
Speaker 1: you come to that. And I think that if that
Speaker 1: were to happen either way, because we actually kind of
Speaker 1: had to start having that conversation because Jeff was still
Speaker 1: around when I was pregnant and Daniel was like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm like, can you not be around the baby?
Speaker 3: Like what are we gonna do?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so we kind of started to have that conversation.
Speaker 1: But I like to think that I'd be really open
Speaker 1: to it, and especially if I think for me, Daniel
Speaker 1: and I kind of look at this differently too, which
Speaker 1: is common I think with with couples, is that you
Speaker 1: have different ways that you want the openness to kind
Speaker 1: of play out. Like for me, I like to know
Speaker 1: all the details when he goes out and I'm like, oh.
Speaker 2: Like did you have a good time, Like I'm like
Speaker 2: waiting for him, like how is the date? I want
Speaker 2: to know everything.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited, And but for him, he kind of
Speaker 1: more prefers not to know, and like, so we had
Speaker 1: to figure that out too. So but I think that
Speaker 1: if he were with someone long term, I would like
Speaker 1: to get to know her.
Speaker 2: I would like to be her friend, but then he
Speaker 2: might not prefer that. I had to respect that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so it's like it's too weird Chillo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you don't need to be friends with her, yeah, Signe.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: But you know what, I have so much respect for
Speaker 4: your relationship because that's really at the heart of why
Speaker 4: it was interesting to me, the communication, like such pure
Speaker 4: honest communication with someone when it works, you know, And
Speaker 4: I'm sure it hasn't always been easy, and I'm sure
Speaker 4: there's been mistakes and things that have happened. It's a relationship,
Speaker 4: you know, but that communication is what kind of drew
Speaker 4: me in because I don't know, for me, that's like
Speaker 4: the most important thing to me period. I mean, I know,
Speaker 4: like we're talking today about like what your five like
Speaker 4: deal breaker things are, like the hierarchy of like what
Speaker 4: is important to you and a partner, Like everything else
Speaker 4: can like fault like maybe not be exactly what you want,
Speaker 4: but there's these five things and like commune vacation.
Speaker 2: And I know, like some people say that, but they
Speaker 2: still can.
Speaker 4: Navigate through a relationship with not a lot of communication.
Speaker 2: I just can't.
Speaker 3: I'm the same.
Speaker 8: So but I've also seen people and that's why I
Speaker 8: was like, well, maybe I should maybe you open relationships
Speaker 8: before me because and I also don't believe in monogamy,
Speaker 8: but I also don't like how I feel Wow, like what.
Speaker 1: That that also like changes with more practice, Like you're
Speaker 1: the first.
Speaker 2: Time letting go of like yeah, letting go that you are.
Speaker 1: Just like the first time your partner goes on a date,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be so much harder than the fifth or
Speaker 1: the tenth.
Speaker 4: By then maybe because he came back, you.
Speaker 2: Hear and they came back and they still want you more.
Speaker 1: But then you're also hitting on another thing. And this
Speaker 1: is a conversation that Daniel and I have had and
Speaker 1: I like to share with people, is that you also
Speaker 1: have to hold in an open relationship that they might
Speaker 1: not come.
Speaker 2: Back right and that you're opening Pandora's book, you are.
Speaker 3: And I think that.
Speaker 1: At first Daniel and I I think that was something
Speaker 1: that we didn't realize but then but then, but then
Speaker 1: after we had more experience.
Speaker 3: It was a conversation that we.
Speaker 2: Had and we've realized that it's just a part of it.
Speaker 1: And you you, I mean, it's the same way that
Speaker 1: your partner could die.
Speaker 2: And you can't like hold on you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: You just you have to be okay on your own
Speaker 2: either way.
Speaker 3: So it's like.
Speaker 2: It's it's okay.
Speaker 1: Like if if Daniel were to meet somebody else and
Speaker 1: fall in love and want to be with them instead
Speaker 1: of me, I would be devastated, of course, because I
Speaker 1: want to grow old with him.
Speaker 3: That's our intention.
Speaker 1: However, if he were to be happier with that person,
Speaker 1: if that was his truth and what he needed to do,
Speaker 1: then who are.
Speaker 2: You to say otherwise? Yeah, And I think that's really beautiful,
Speaker 2: just like I understand that life happens, and if I'm here,
Speaker 2: I'm here like that could happen even if you're.
Speaker 1: Not open exactly, And and and we've been together for
Speaker 1: ten years, so like that's what makes me like at
Speaker 1: this point, I think like I wouldn't I wasn't here
Speaker 1: six years ago.
Speaker 2: Secure. I feel very secre in relationship.
Speaker 1: But also I feel like what we've shared already has
Speaker 1: been so incredible and so beautiful and like given me
Speaker 1: so much goodness that if if it were to end
Speaker 1: that way, like we.
Speaker 2: Still find something.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, and so I don't know, but I
Speaker 1: think that that's something that doesn't get talked about at
Speaker 1: a tens that.
Speaker 3: You're opening that up, opening up that possibility.
Speaker 4: I think it's something you try to like pretend like
Speaker 4: what doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: I don't or like say, we're opening it up because
Speaker 2: like I said, I think it's already fall in love
Speaker 2: with someone, that's what was meant intended to happen. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's how it was supposed to life. Was that your life,
Speaker 2: that's your pathway, that's how it If you fall in
Speaker 2: love with someone that was going to happen either way,
Speaker 2: well that's kind.
Speaker 4: Of like the awesome mess of life. Like right like
Speaker 4: at any moment, some of your life can totally change
Speaker 4: its path that you have to learn to honor it
Speaker 4: end even when it's painful, because that's honestly part of
Speaker 4: the only reasons why I've been able to get through
Speaker 4: some situations. It's just knowing, like I've always my mom
Speaker 4: is always like said to me that like time is
Speaker 4: the greatest neutralizer, and the time everything is always better.
Speaker 4: It just gets better because I truly enjoy learning.
Speaker 2: And like feeling. I have a feeling like even the pain.
Speaker 4: It's weird, you know, and it's like I want to
Speaker 4: feel life.
Speaker 2: I want to feel that. I think that's the biggest
Speaker 2: thing after all this controversy of like should I be open,
Speaker 2: should I be closed? And even us on this journey,
Speaker 2: this podcast journey going through shit and working through shit
Speaker 2: and talking about it and growing and healing and saying, damn,
Speaker 2: this is making me have to grow. Damn, this is
Speaker 2: making me look at myself. I think the greatest the
Speaker 2: end goal is that we're all living on our path.
Speaker 2: We're all walking our path, we're all hitting the lessons
Speaker 2: we're supposed to learn this lifetime. We're healing it and
Speaker 2: we're pushing through. And that's the forever thing, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, That's that's our whole life's purpose. And
Speaker 2: we can't no matter what the fuck we do, whatever
Speaker 2: decisions we make is going to happen whatever way. The growth,
Speaker 2: the heartbreaks, all the winds, It all happens. But are
Speaker 2: you gonna go with life's flow or are you gonna
Speaker 2: try and fight it every time some shit hits the fan?
Speaker 2: So I think that's like the overall thing. Yeah, And I.
Speaker 1: Think, I guess I've never thought of it this way,
Speaker 1: but I think in that way, an open relationship is
Speaker 1: almost easier because you're like, instead of resisting, you're just
Speaker 1: kind of going. Like because because even in committed monogamous relationships, like.
Speaker 2: People are gonna meet people that they're interested in. That
Speaker 2: happens all the time. Infidelity is huge, so I don't
Speaker 2: know more because it's forbidden and because it feels sneaky
Speaker 2: and good, sometimes people can be come more appealing yeah
Speaker 2: than they actually are all the time. That's why a
Speaker 2: lot of people do. Right.
Speaker 1: So I think in a way, you're like actually taking
Speaker 1: out some of those I don't know bumps, just like, well,
Speaker 1: I actually can do this, so I don't even need
Speaker 1: to make a big deal about it and freak everybody out.
Speaker 3: It's just like something I can, I'm.
Speaker 1: Allowed to do I can sit here and flirt with
Speaker 1: this beautiful woman at this bar and not be afraid
Speaker 1: that someone's gonna send my wife a fota.
Speaker 2: Right. Oh my god, gotta say something, Oh, Shan Shambooty said.
Speaker 2: I saw on her YouTube she was saying that romantic
Speaker 2: relationships are the only space we are allowed to have
Speaker 2: ownership and jealousy. And then no one questioned it as
Speaker 2: Erica's friend, like and we had all the time when
Speaker 2: she s are hanging out with other people, I can't
Speaker 2: be like, hey, why are you hanging out?
Speaker 3: You love, we do this together.
Speaker 2: You take me at the party, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: But suddenly, like romantic relationships, we can she was saying
Speaker 4: that she's.
Speaker 2: Saying that it's about it. Jealousy is not condoned in
Speaker 2: any atmosphere. If you jealous of your coworker, if you
Speaker 2: jell us of your friend, that's kind of odd. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But if you're jealous of something going on in a
Speaker 2: romantic relationship, no one questions that ego, No one questions
Speaker 2: that that's actually very unhealthy, right, because we've been we've
Speaker 2: conditioned ourselves to believe that it is. And that's how
Speaker 2: it's supposed to be, but in reality, jealousy is not
Speaker 2: a good treat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's well, that's toxic monogamy culture.
Speaker 1: It's just that we've really run normalized and then like
Speaker 1: even decided that like jealousy is proof, like it's proof
Speaker 1: that you really cared about me, right, Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: mean honestly, I still struggle.
Speaker 3: With that too.
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm undoing a lot still actively and like
Speaker 1: sometimes when actually Jeff, my ex boyfriend, he was not
Speaker 1: ever jealous. He was a very he was a pisces
Speaker 1: like very like just chow auto, a query and energy,
Speaker 1: and like he he was never jealous.
Speaker 2: And I at like some points I would just be.
Speaker 9: Like why are you not jealous? Like don't you want
Speaker 9: to be my husband? Like don't you like what's going on?
Speaker 9: And I had to like check myself obviously. But that's
Speaker 9: a product of toxic monogamy culture.
Speaker 1: It's just like the way that we have decided monogamy
Speaker 1: should be done is.
Speaker 2: Just that that's how you care if you're jealous. Yeah,
Speaker 2: well I feel really enlightened right now.
Speaker 4: If it's the weird this conversation, I hope it's me.
Speaker 4: You know what I think we had a lot of
Speaker 4: sex conversation to day. I've like, we've talked about sex
Speaker 4: all day.
Speaker 2: We have I mean not just sex, relationships.
Speaker 4: Relationships and it's like, yeah, it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: It really is. There's a science to it.
Speaker 1: It's my favorite thing to talk about. I was really
Speaker 1: excited to come on and talk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to know more about your mommy mommy vibes.
Speaker 2: Mommy vibes. Well, mommy vibes is kind of on hold
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: But it was a photography project and I love that.
Speaker 2: I really love.
Speaker 10: Really I think I should be unpaused until further down
Speaker 10: is yeah, I just need to find I just to
Speaker 10: figure how I want to do it, because I also
Speaker 10: I shoot sometimes too, but I didn't feel confident enough
Speaker 10: behind the camera to be able to shoot it myself.
Speaker 2: So that's why I contacted another photographer. You can do it,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: We could shot that, we could practice, but I think
Speaker 1: the idea was to shoot other women and to make
Speaker 1: it be this giant project where I'm showing that mothers
Speaker 1: are sexual beings as well, and that that's okay, and
Speaker 1: that once you become a mother, it doesn't like neuter you.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean like you no longer are sexy, you
Speaker 1: no longer have desire.
Speaker 2: But that those things could coexist.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to create images because I realized I
Speaker 1: hadn't seen many of them in the project was actually
Speaker 1: born because I was I love lingerie. I love lingerie
Speaker 1: so much so and I own a lot of it
Speaker 1: and I just kind of like wear it at home
Speaker 1: by myself often. And so I was doing that and
Speaker 1: I was holding my baby and he was really little,
Speaker 1: and I looked in the mirror and I was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: like I just saw like the power of that image
Speaker 1: of like seeing my body as like both nurturing and
Speaker 1: nurturing mother but also like sexy. And I'm like, we
Speaker 1: need to see this because this is kind of, in
Speaker 1: a way like a woman in her full power, not
Speaker 1: saying that a woman has to be a mother to
Speaker 1: enter into her full power, but putting those two things together,
Speaker 1: like women as sex goddess but also woman as nurturing mother.
Speaker 2: It was just like the most it was like the
Speaker 2: most powerful thing ever. Just like staring myself in the mirror,
Speaker 2: like I need more of that.
Speaker 4: You know what, That's so amazing that you saw that
Speaker 4: in yourself, you know because a lot of women look
Speaker 4: to other women like and that's beautiful too, but like
Speaker 4: idolize other women like beyond sing or something.
Speaker 2: But when you look at yourself and you can see that, that's.
Speaker 4: That's powerful, you know, and like I feel like we
Speaker 4: as women have to encourage other women to That's why
Speaker 4: that project is.
Speaker 2: So it is it is get back to it strong
Speaker 2: like I felt, I felt it.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: You guys really do need to go check that out.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm I'm here for you. I am
Speaker 2: I support that, I like you. That's what I yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think a part of my work because I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm still figuring out my personal vocation and I do
Speaker 1: want a part of my work to be coaching people,
Speaker 1: coaching women in particular mothers, maybe even in particular on
Speaker 1: how to own your sexuality and how to feel comfortable
Speaker 1: in your body.
Speaker 2: And I think that that project kind of hits on that.
Speaker 2: I think it's so beautiful because like, really, that's why
Speaker 2: we're all here, you know, That's why we started this.
Speaker 2: That's how like, that's why whatever. When I saw you
Speaker 2: come to our page, is like, oh I like her.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh I like her. She's my tap again,
Speaker 2: you know, like there there has It's not that we
Speaker 2: don't exist, it's that we don't we don't talk, and
Speaker 2: it's because other people, other women, other moms don't know
Speaker 2: that we exist as community is here and that it's
Speaker 2: okay to embrace that and it's not foreign and it's
Speaker 2: not this like this frowned upon thing. And I think
Speaker 2: like dirty the stury nest thing. And when these when
Speaker 2: these types of seeds are are planted, when you stop
Speaker 2: in the mirror and you're like, oh shit, there's something
Speaker 2: so much bigger there that seed just got planted. And
Speaker 2: then you just contacted this photographer. Also, I was thinking
Speaker 2: maybe you should just use all female photographers.
Speaker 3: That was another thing that I crossed my.
Speaker 2: Mind because if we talked about that story. But just
Speaker 2: like even I started this podcast, you know, because that
Speaker 2: was the first thing that we talked about when she
Speaker 2: asked me, she talked about that. She first told me
Speaker 2: the tender story with her couple, and then she said, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, you want to say this podcast? And
Speaker 2: I said, oh, were gonna be dishonest? Are we're going
Speaker 2: to be who we are? She's like buck it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, I'm down because that's the
Speaker 2: only reason, only way I really not to talk. But
Speaker 2: you know, like these little seas are kind of there's
Speaker 2: because there's people who need to hear this. There's other
Speaker 2: moms that need to be empowered by this movement. And
Speaker 2: just like you're like, it's on pause because I realize
Speaker 2: it's kind of a touchy subject. That's why it's you.
Speaker 2: That's why you need to do it. Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 2: That's why it's important. So I'm really happy, excited about it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, and I'm here to help.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on today. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: It was so great. Yes, it's really good talking to you.
Speaker 2: Can you tell our listeners where they can find you.
Speaker 1: Yes, you can find me at at bay Leche on
Speaker 1: Instagram that's b A E L E c h E.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of partle slide me a DM.
Speaker 1: If you're interested in opening up your current relationship or
Speaker 1: you just have questions, I'm always happy to guide people through.
Speaker 2: That's amazing. Anything don't you have at the Mommy Project too?
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's a private account because I.
Speaker 1: Have people interested in it for maybe reasons I don't like.
Speaker 1: So it's at Mommy Vibes Project.
Speaker 2: If you're interested in going to find that, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: I think like keeping it privately helps me control I
Speaker 1: can see, and also like the male to female ratio.
Speaker 2: And like he was following, like I have.
Speaker 1: I think I have like six year requests right now,
Speaker 1: but they're all men, and so I'm like.
Speaker 2: Let's let's even it out. Let's pend on even it
Speaker 2: out a bit. You can find us that good Mom's
Speaker 2: underscore bad choices. Make sure to sign up for our
Speaker 2: newsletter on our website.
Speaker 4: And oh, we're having a meetup at the at Forever
Speaker 4: Hollywood Forever Cemetery. We're going to see the Exorcist because
Speaker 4: we need to exercise exorcistics.
Speaker 2: It is wait, what day is that? July thirteenth? I
Speaker 2: believe July fourteenth, the Saturday. That's the thirteenth of the fourties. Anyway,
Speaker 2: look it up Hollywood Former Cemetery. I don't know. Eighteen bucks.
Speaker 2: You're like, bring some wine, and I was thinking we
Speaker 2: should dress like witchy because it's a cemetery.
Speaker 3: You have to come.
Speaker 2: Have you ever been No?
Speaker 3: It sounds fun?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, so it's in the cemetery. It's old
Speaker 4: cemetery in Hollywood. There's like old like Hollywood. Starlet's buried
Speaker 4: there and just ran a lot.
Speaker 2: Of like Jewish people there are anyway, they have it's beautiful.
Speaker 2: They have like all these beautiful like statues and I
Speaker 2: mean it's death, but it's beautiful.
Speaker 4: They have this huge wall and then people come out
Speaker 4: and there's DJs and you picnic out there.
Speaker 2: That sounds fun, yeah, And then they play a movie.
Speaker 2: And then they play a movie and usually the time
Speaker 2: is afore films. Sometimes it's like an old Hollywood film like.
Speaker 4: Roman Holiday, or sometimes it's like Cheech and Chong and
Speaker 4: everyone's just getting high.
Speaker 3: But it's really do that anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're doing that, Arkles. That's what I'm gonna be
Speaker 2: doing at thee for sure. Yeah, I'm gonna do.
Speaker 4: Anyway because coming out.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I think I may be the second
Speaker 2: eclipse too, around the time this thirteenth or fourth. Okay,
Speaker 2: whatever I do, whatever, never mind forguts. Alright, y'all, Well
Speaker 2: we'll see next week. Box attachments is the key.
Speaker 3: To let go out who you still be.
Speaker 2: Still?
Speaker 4: Somehow?
Speaker 3: I vibrate on your way.
Speaker 2: I try to reprogramed. Mama. There's no change, but it
Speaker 2: just swong uk for me. It just swoll uough for me.
Speaker 2: It just fell a no, it's just all love for me.
Speaker 2: It is all love for me. It is all life.