1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Fry and 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Oh Man, Yeah, Children's Morality Code. Yeah, yuck. Yeah, 4 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: I had never heard of this. You sent me that line. 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: I read the words National Institution for Moral Instruction and 6 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: I was like, Hey, this sounds like Nazis. It's pretty awful. 7 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: Not quite time for, like the Nazi Party had not 8 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: developed yet, but something about it. Immediately I was like, mmmm, no, 9 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: this seems like something bad. The hardest of passes. Man, 10 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: this one is so yucky in so many ways. I 11 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: mean it starts with the camera hidden in a briefcase. 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: That's creeper. Banvier extremely creepy. The way he became super 13 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: ablest and into eugenics super creepy. It's really really uh, 14 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: it's just troubling, and it is one of those things 15 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: we didn't go into it, but that when the Inquiry 16 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: started being published in nineteen twenty eight, it got a 17 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: lot of coverage in the paper and like one newspaper 18 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: there's this huge with a graphic article about it about 19 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: like the findings of kids and how often kids lie 20 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: and how you know kids. There's a quote from the 21 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: researchers that like they in one of their experiments, they 22 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: had this setup where kids were supposed to write down 23 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: in a journal like the various good acts they did, 24 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,639 Speaker 1: I think, And it was a voluntary thing. Students didn't 25 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: have to do it. But the kids that volunteered turned 26 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: out to kind of be the biggest liars in the 27 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: class based on their other studies, like that they were 28 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 1: just lying in their journals about the good things they 29 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: had done. And this, of course became very newsworthy because 30 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties, before the depression, people really had 31 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: time to discuss whether or not kids were worthy of 32 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: being human beings. It's so weird. It's all so weird. 33 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: I can't I mean, you know, Dewey had it right, right, 34 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: He's like, this is just social intelligence, you guys, because 35 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: people will learned these things. That's part of growing up. 36 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: Just to be super clear in case people have forgotten 37 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: since the episode, the Dowe we were talking about there 38 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: is not Melville Dewey, creator of the Dewey decimal system. No, 39 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: we're not saying that guy was right about anything. It's 40 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 1: a different do we have issue. So the Dewey decimal 41 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: system I have, how horrible Melvil Dewey was on like 42 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: my short list for an episode, but I just can't 43 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: deal with him in this moment. Yeah. Yeah, the whole 44 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: idea that like kids needed these very like like you 45 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: said it, it vibes very you know, Nazish, the use 46 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: of the future must be perfect kind of ideology. I 47 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: will say this, A broken clock is right twice a day, okay. 48 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: And I did find it is listed in that PhD 49 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: paper that we read as like a footnote that she 50 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: found in something else. So I didn't include in the 51 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: episode because at that point it's many times removed from 52 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: anything I can look up and verify. But she noted 53 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: that she found in a thing someone mentioning fair Child's 54 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: list of immoral behaviors. And there are a couple of 55 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: things in this that I was like, well, yeah, that's right. Yeah. 56 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: So one of them is opposition to proof of another's 57 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: theories because of jealousy, Oh sure, degenerating into a propagandist 58 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: of an unproved hypothesis instead of being true to the 59 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: research purpose of discovering truth. Okay, that sounds great. We 60 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: all need to learn that all the time, and then 61 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: cowardice in supporting a verified generalization because it is unpopular 62 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: and conflicts with selfish interests. I'm like, yeah, that's all true. Yeah, 63 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: why are you so messed up? I also think, like, 64 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: you know, teaching kids about things like honesty, uh great, 65 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: Like fine, fine, I'm not saying that that shouldn't happen, 66 00:04:53,400 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: but like that. The list of laws really exemplifies the 67 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: way that a lot of thinking in our culture and 68 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: history has been like, if you're able bodied, you're good. Yeah, 69 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: but if you're not able bodied, obviously you're bad and 70 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: it's your own fault somehow, and you should have not 71 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: done that. And a boy, did I hate reading that. 72 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: It's awful. It's awful. The whole idea that kids were 73 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: basically going to be put in camps if they weren't moral. Yep, 74 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: I hate it is so horrified, can you. I mean, 75 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: I'm I of course, because I'm a self centered person, 76 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: because I'm a human. You know, you always project yourself 77 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: into these scenarios. And I would be like, listen, I 78 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: was the kid that always had Holly lack self control 79 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: written on every one of my report cards because I 80 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: wanted to chitter chatter with everybody in class. I would 81 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: be a kid that sat in incarceration in his world 82 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: because I never learned that lesson. I never learned not 83 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: to say bad words or yell when people made me angry. 84 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: And it's like, it's something that simple that literally would 85 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: make you considered not worthy of being in society. And 86 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, this also reaches a tipping point. Pretend none 87 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: of it is even about the incarceration of people that 88 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: don't pass the morality code. At what point is a 89 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: code like this invoked to keep people down? Do you 90 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, if you have this and 91 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: kids are doing this every day and they're reciting all 92 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: of the ways that they're going to adhere to these 93 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: laws of morality, what happens when that kid comes into 94 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: a situation that they have not been prepared for where 95 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: a person in power is doing something wrong because they 96 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: have been taught to be loyal and to not complain 97 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: right and to like right, Nope, that's a big noplelope. 98 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: It made me so angry. It made me so angry 99 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: that I was like, we have to talk about this. Yeah, 100 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: it's gonna suck, but we have to talk about it. Yeah, man, yuck. Also, 101 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: on the like you know, Bravo TV edition of this 102 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: whole thing, we never found out, to the best of 103 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: my knowledge, who the person was that put up that money. Yeah. 104 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: I So, in addition to being like, hey man, this 105 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: sounds like nazis what's happening, I went to try to 106 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: figure out what this organization was because that was not 107 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: a name I recognized from you know, the list of 108 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: historical organizations in my head. And I found this one 109 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: one thing that like listed all all the members and 110 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: advisors and stuff like that, And I was like, who 111 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: oh was this businessman that paid for this though? And 112 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: that was not in there, no, by no anywhere, never 113 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: found it. It's interesting, I know the work of the 114 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: researchers that did the inquiry that oversaw it, Edward Thorndyke, 115 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: he had been funded in his work, which was similarly 116 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: trying to like dismantle these ideas or like show that 117 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: they're not effective, was funded both by Rockefeller and Carnegie. Yeah. 118 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: So I was like, well, those are the two people 119 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: I would have suspected of putting up the money. So 120 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: if they were working against it, who is this mystery person? 121 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: I mean, will never know, maybe it was one of them. 122 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe we will know at some point 123 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: when somebody's writing a dissertation on some businessmen and find 124 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: the transaction and they're led somewhere right the nineteen sixteen 125 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars, or it might have been earlier, right, 126 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: because it might have been oh sure allocated before when 127 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: the thing was announced. Yeah, and the twenty thousand dollars 128 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: like that. I mean that was a lot of money 129 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: at the time, so that is a significant transaction. Yeah. Oh, 130 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: I ache to know who it was. I ache who 131 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: would have had a vested interest anyway. I could think 132 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: and theorize for a very long time, but I don't. 133 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: We may not ever know, or we may find out. 134 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm sure glad that they stopped doing that. 135 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: One of this week's episodes was on Mary Hunter Austin. Yeah. Who, 136 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: I really thought that I was going to be writing 137 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: an episode that was about walking in the desert and 138 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: reading lots of quotes about her beautiful descriptions of the 139 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: desert landscapes and the desert peoples that she was so 140 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: in love with, And that was not the episode that 141 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: we got. No, I did not intend this episode as 142 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: like a counterpoint to Harriet Russell Williams Strong, who we 143 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: talked about last year. I was gonna ask if I 144 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: came up in the the friction stories about the irrigation issues. 145 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: Yeah I did not. Yeah, I did not see Harriet 146 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: Russell Williams Strong's name mentioned in any of it. But 147 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: as I was doing the research on Mary Austin, I 148 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: was like, what, why does this sound so familiar? We've 149 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: talked about this on the show. When did we talk 150 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: about it? H And just enough time had passed that 151 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: I had to go digging to bring to mind what 152 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: episode that was. In In addition to that dispute, it 153 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: seems like Mary Austin had some conflicts with people. We 154 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: mentioned John Muir at the beginning of the episode. I 155 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: don't know what their disagreements were, but one of the 156 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: sources that I used mentioned that there were disagreements that 157 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: they butted heads in some way, and I was like, 158 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: I wish I could find the details about that. Right 159 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: we talked? We talked, Yeah, we talked about like being 160 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: threatened with a lawsuit by HG. Wells and having a 161 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 1: heart attack in the stress of all that. There was 162 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: also apparently a falling out with Willa Cather. She just 163 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: had all the greatest hits of arguments. Yeah, and I 164 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: don't think I don't think we mentioned Willa Cather at 165 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: all in the in the episode. But she met Willa 166 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: Cather probably sometime in like the nineteen teens. They became friends. 167 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty six, Mary was going to be a 168 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: way to have an abdominal surgery, unrelated I think to 169 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: the breast cancer diagnosis, which I have various questions about 170 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: me doing us with that, which they are unresolved. I 171 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: have no answers to the questions about her breast cancer diagnosis. 172 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: But she was going to be in Saint Louis having 173 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: an abdominal surgery, and Willa Cather was going to be 174 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: passing through her neighborhood, and she was like, Hey, you 175 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: can stay at my house while I'm away, and Willa 176 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: Cather said great, And she wrote part of Death Comes 177 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: for the Archbishop staying there at Mary Austin's house, and 178 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: she acknowledged like she acknowledged this, I think in an 179 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: inscribed book that she gave to Mary later on. But 180 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: in Earth Horizon, Mary Hunter called Willa Cather's praise of 181 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: French missionary priests a calamity and Willa Cather like publicly 182 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: denied having written any part of any book at Mary 183 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: Austin's home, and I was like everywhere. I think she 184 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: may have met Willa Cather at Mabel Dodge Leuhan's house. 185 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: That was the wife of Tony Luhan, who was the 186 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: person that they had worked with to get permission to 187 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: take pictures at taus Peblo. Mary Dodge Luhan seems like 188 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: an incredibly fascinating person to maybe possibly do an episode 189 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: about one day. She was an heiress and a promoter 190 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: of the arts, and her home became kind of a 191 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: gathering place or their home they were married. They became 192 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: a gathering place and a retreat for writers and artists, 193 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: and that included people like Georgia O'Keefe and Willa Cather. 194 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: So she was sort of a central figure in the 195 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: literature and arts and culture of this part of the US. Yeah, 196 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: I'm I'm, I don't I know, you have no answers, 197 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: but I'm like, oh, she lived way past the nineteen 198 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: oh nine huh, I guess I'm not dying of breast 199 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: cancer moments. So I think, yeah, like a long time 200 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: after that. Yeah, I have absolutely no detail on like 201 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: what kind of examination she was given when she was 202 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: told that she had breast cancer. I have no idea 203 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: what diagnostic tools went into that, really no sense of 204 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: what her symptoms were besides this arm pain that had 205 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: led her to go to the doctor. I just have 206 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: a lot of questions about all of that too. Also, 207 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: I have a lot of feelings about her daughter, Ruth, Yeah, 208 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: because part of like the time when Mary was trying 209 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: to parent Ruth with no resources, Some of that sounds 210 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: offul really awful. I'm not really completely clear on how 211 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: old Ruth was when Mary would go to work as 212 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: a teacher and leave her by herself at home, like 213 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: whether she was of an age that people might think 214 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: that was okay. It seems like she was. She did 215 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: not have the ability that she would needed that she 216 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: would have needed to do that safely. So some of 217 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: this just sounds really terrible. But the judgment that people 218 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: passed on her for finding other arrangements was also really awful. Yeah, 219 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: I felt like, personally, I had personal feelings about that 220 00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: because my mom her entire career was working with disabled people. 221 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: She started working with disabled adults in a day program 222 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: teaching things like literacy and math and life skills and 223 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: things like that in a day program, and most of 224 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: the adults that she worked with might be able to 225 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: live in a group home setting or with family some 226 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: kind of situation where they had additional help and additional support. 227 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: But then she started working with children in a long 228 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: term care facility, and the children that she worked with 229 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: a lot of them had multiple disabilities. A lot of 230 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: them had, I mean all of them. All of them 231 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: had multiple disabilities. All of them had very high support needs, 232 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: and a lot of them also had medical needs where 233 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: they really needed like twenty four hour medical care on site. 234 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: So like kids that needed breathing support, that needed to 235 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: be suctioned on a regular basis, or had feeding tubes 236 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: or some kind of stoma on their body, like all 237 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: kinds of things like that. And sure there were parents 238 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: that probably seemed inattentive or callous in that whole situation. 239 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: There are also a lot of parents where it was like, 240 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: what was the other option? Right, Like, this child needs 241 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: care all the time, this child needs a lot of 242 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: support all the time. The whole family also needs to 243 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: have a home and eat and have electricity and all 244 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: of that, and so like, it may not be possible 245 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: for this child to be cared for at home. There 246 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: are some ways for people to be cared for at home, 247 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: but a lot of times those are extraordinarily expensive, they 248 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: can be really hard to arrange. And sometimes there are 249 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: just ways to have subsidized care in a residential facility 250 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: that doesn't exist for somebody trying to stay at home. 251 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: But people spoke about the parents whose children were living 252 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: at this facility with a very broad brush and spoke 253 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: as though everyone was just awful for having to place 254 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: their child. And sometimes I'm just like, there, what would 255 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: the other option be though? Right, take the fact that 256 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: Ruth was disabled out of it, which is, you know, 257 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: not to erase her or anything. But like, even if 258 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: Mary had what would be called an easy baby, right, 259 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: a kid that like hits all of their developmental marks, 260 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: isn't especially fussy, seems well adjusted, she did not have 261 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: a good model of parenthood to work from to begin with. 262 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: Oh sure, yea. So even if she had a child 263 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: with no disabilities, perfectly you know, healthy, and had had 264 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: just an easy time in the world, I don't know 265 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: that she would have been equipped with the tools to 266 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: know how to be a great mom. Yeah, which, like, yes, 267 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: especially at this time when it's not like there were 268 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: a kajillion parenting books. Yeah, particularly not for parenting kids 269 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: with disabilities. Right, Where was she gonna learn any of that? Yeah? Well, 270 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: and also with her husband not really involved, right, but 271 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: she's essentially a single parent. Yeah, she still would have 272 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: needed to work to earn enough money to keep them 273 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: housed and fed. So yeah, it's it's Uh. There are 274 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: times in the accounts of that where I was like, wow, 275 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: this sounds awful, and in this, you know, in this 276 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: part of the situation, it seems like she did something 277 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: really messed up. Uh. But there are also a lot 278 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: of times where it seems like she was doing her 279 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: best with no resources in a society that had no resources, 280 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: that didn't even consider that there needed to be resources 281 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: right for disabled children and their families, none of which 282 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: I was prepared to be writing an episode about out 283 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: surprise when I thought we were going to have an 284 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: episode about walking in the desert, Uh surprise. So yeah. Yeah. 285 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: A lot of Mary Hunter Austen's work is in the 286 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: public domain, not all of it, Some of it is 287 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: a little bit too recent to have come into the 288 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: public domain yet, so there is a lot of it 289 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: that you can read, uh on places like you know, 290 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: Archive dot organ Project, Gutenberg. In places like that, I 291 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: feel like her assertion that she could figure out English 292 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: and writing on her own and she wanted to spend 293 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: her college education on something else, that there was some 294 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: hubris there, because it does seem like she struggled to 295 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: work out things like, you know, craft and style and 296 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: all of that. One of the reasons it took her 297 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: for a really long time to get longer work published. 298 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: It wasn't in addition, in addition to the fact that 299 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: she was trying to care for a child, she was 300 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: having to kind of learn as she went things like 301 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: structure and form and and all of that. I also 302 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: have only read some of some of her works. By 303 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: no means have I tried to do a thorough survey 304 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: of all of it in the time we have to 305 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: prepare a podcast her almost one book a year for 306 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: thirty two years. What you didn't buzz through thirty books? 307 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: Real quick? Well? Difficult? Difficult? What are you a quitter? 308 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: I am working on an episode upcoming about a writer 309 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: that I love and even revisiting all of their works 310 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: is like, yeah, taking some effort and time. Yeah, a 311 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: lot of audiobook action going on. Yeah, if you want 312 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: to send us a note about this or any other 313 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: podcast or history podcast atiheartradio dot com, whatever is coming 314 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: up for you on your weekend, I hope it is 315 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: as good and smooth as possible. If you've got stuff 316 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: in your life happening right now, I know a lot 317 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: of us do stuff that's not great. I hope you're 318 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: able to take some moments for yourself to take some 319 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: deep breaths, Maybe get yourself a little treat of some sort. 320 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: Maybe just sit under a tree where things are starting 321 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: to turn green and bloom here in the Northern Hemisphere. 322 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: If you're in the Southern Hemisphere getting ready to look 323 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: at the oncoming of winter, I hope it's going to 324 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: be a great winter. I guess autumn is closer because 325 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: we're getting just about to spring. We're not exactly this 326 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: summer yet. I just visited my parents and was able 327 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: to cut some of the earliest blooming flowers in the 328 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,959 Speaker 1: yard to bring into my mom So, yeah, nice. We 329 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: will be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow and with 330 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: something brand new on stuff you missed in history. Class 331 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 332 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 333 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.