Speaker 1: Can we talk about how the remix of Jennifer Lawrence
Speaker 1: singing the no but No But I do remember once
Speaker 1: being in an uber on a way to a party
Speaker 1: and that song came on. It's so bad. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Like a Virgin, the show where we give yesterday's pop
Speaker 1: culture today's takes. I'm Rose, damn you, I'm Fran Toronto,
Speaker 1: and we have some breaking news. And Fran, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've even seen this. We did not talk
Speaker 1: about it in advance, but the Madonna biopick has been canceled.
Speaker 1: Oh my, that is hilarious. Because I was at Sinance
Speaker 1: this weekend, which we'll talk about Charlie. I talked to
Speaker 1: multiple industry people about the Madonna bio pick two separate
Speaker 1: conversations abou this biopic, and someone said to me, well,
Speaker 1: what do you think is going to happen with And
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think it's gonna happen. I
Speaker 1: think that Madonna. If you look at the history of
Speaker 1: Madonna movies and just unfinished Madonna projects in general, there
Speaker 1: are many that have been abandoned because she's so impossible
Speaker 1: to work with, which like she deserves to be impossible
Speaker 1: to work with right, like she's earned her shore to
Speaker 1: an extent. But h I mean you also called this too.
Speaker 1: I feel like you didn't think it was like, it's
Speaker 1: not it's I have been saying for years at this
Speaker 1: point that this film which Madonna was going to direct
Speaker 1: herself was never happening. Um, but it is official according
Speaker 1: to Twitter. It's not happening. But what I will say
Speaker 1: is I still would like to see a limited series
Speaker 1: about the Madonna boot Camp. Yes, actually, um, girls, so
Speaker 1: tell me about Sundance. Sundance was great. I've been to
Speaker 1: Sundance before. Have I told you about this? No? Um,
Speaker 1: I went to Sundance twenty years ago in fifth grade. What. Yeah,
Speaker 1: My my trans cowgirl aunt, who I think I've talked
Speaker 1: to you about before. He was an architect and she
Speaker 1: had like she had built a house for Robert Redford.
Speaker 1: I'm not a Nippo baby, by the way, listeners, Um,
Speaker 1: she just like got the hook up. My aunt is
Speaker 1: like she lives in a shack in like the middle
Speaker 1: of fucking podunc newhere, Colorado, like a shock that she
Speaker 1: built herself. But she like was like, oh, um, Robert
Speaker 1: Redford like my um nibbling so to speak. I hate.
Speaker 1: Actually I just used the term nibbling to describe a
Speaker 1: young me, and I actually hate that term. Can we
Speaker 1: say this now, like there has to be a better
Speaker 1: gender neutral term between nephew and niece than nibbling, Like
Speaker 1: that's it's rotted, Like it's disgusting. I've never used that terminology.
Speaker 1: I never would. That's disgusting. But you you, but you
Speaker 1: yourself have a nibbling. I have a nephew for now,
Speaker 1: for now, as I said, as I said at his
Speaker 1: Zoom gender reveal, for now, yeah you did, um okay,
Speaker 1: So anyways, Um, basically she was just like, oh, yeah, my,
Speaker 1: you know, my net niece, um wants to be a filmmaker.
Speaker 1: I want to take them and like literally brought me
Speaker 1: and my cousin to Sundance so that we could like
Speaker 1: watch movies and and all that stuff. Totally wild, but
Speaker 1: like the an amazing, incredible memory as a kid, and
Speaker 1: I think to go back with like TRIPLEI fun obviously
Speaker 1: because I could go to all of the crazy parties
Speaker 1: that come along with Sundance. So what is Sundance like
Speaker 1: I've never been you know, Um, I would describe it
Speaker 1: similar to I mean, it's just it's just a film
Speaker 1: festival that kind of takes place across Park City, which
Speaker 1: is this like you know place in Utah that has
Speaker 1: an extremely high elevation and therefore is like covered in
Speaker 1: snow this time of year. UM, And it's super magical
Speaker 1: and very like hyperlocal and small, very crowded. UM probably
Speaker 1: has the same crowd that you might find it like
Speaker 1: a south By Southwest or like an Aspen Gay Ski Week,
Speaker 1: which like I've been to both, and that just basically
Speaker 1: means that they're white and affluent and have expendable income.
Speaker 1: So sometimes there are some like really annoying people that
Speaker 1: you're surrounded by, and then you're also surrounded by a
Speaker 1: lot of like cool like filmmakers and artists who are
Speaker 1: there because their films are there. Did you spot Anne
Speaker 1: Hathaway who was so stepmother at Sundance this year, the
Speaker 1: kind of step mom you want to fuck? She? I
Speaker 1: did not see her. I'm so bummed that I would
Speaker 1: say that um Kesha was probably the most famous person.
Speaker 1: I was in proximity too, but I did sad. It's
Speaker 1: really disappointing. I was looking for her, for sure, But
Speaker 1: I I did see Meredith Marks like four different times,
Speaker 1: like she was at every other party that I went to,
Speaker 1: And at a certain point I was like this is weird,
Speaker 1: Like you are the queen of Sundance, I guess, um,
Speaker 1: And yeah, she had like a party in like her boutique,
Speaker 1: which is um, like she's the one with the gay son,
Speaker 1: and her boutique is like like four square feet, like
Speaker 1: it's so small, and like I we were all like
Speaker 1: jam packed in there with like a bunch of other
Speaker 1: faggots and then like Jonathan Bennet, like I was just
Speaker 1: like what's going on? Um? I saw some really cool films.
Speaker 1: There's only one that I like really want to talk about. Um,
Speaker 1: this documentary that soon everyone will hear about called Cocoma Documentary. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the bathroom, just kidding, Okay,
Speaker 1: but actually I think that's a good setup because it's
Speaker 1: a documentary that you know, if you read the log line,
Speaker 1: it's like a doc about black trans sex workers across
Speaker 1: the country, and on paper, it's kind of like a
Speaker 1: talking head doc. And you know, you and I we've
Speaker 1: worked in queer media for a while, and like we've
Speaker 1: reported on a lot of things related to just ongoing
Speaker 1: violence and sex work and all this all this different stuff,
Speaker 1: and so I think I kind of went into it,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people probably went into
Speaker 1: it having a certain idea in their head of what
Speaker 1: a documentary about black trans sex workers would be. And
Speaker 1: then in the first sixty seconds of this film completely
Speaker 1: like surprises you, and it's like a completely different movie
Speaker 1: than what you think it's going to be. It is
Speaker 1: so funny and so nuanced and so artful, and like
Speaker 1: I think that you know, similar to our conversations about
Speaker 1: like Pretty Woman and Zola a while back, it's like
Speaker 1: it like perfectly illustrates like the like what's like mundane
Speaker 1: about sex work, Like what's like ridiculous about sex work,
Speaker 1: what's terrifying about sex work? And messes it all up
Speaker 1: just like by way of talking to these women and
Speaker 1: hearing like how brilliant they are. And then also like
Speaker 1: without giving too much away interviewing people that hire sex workers,
Speaker 1: and without like centering them at all, like the art
Speaker 1: of the camera it like doesn't show their faces, and
Speaker 1: like just on the filmmaking level and on the music
Speaker 1: supervision level, the movie was so good and the woman
Speaker 1: who directed it, who obviously was also black, and trans
Speaker 1: which is to me the reason why this film was
Speaker 1: like so far and beyond different than any other I'd
Speaker 1: seen in like the trans doc space or even trans
Speaker 1: filmmaking space. Um she used to work in music and
Speaker 1: was like I think she used to do like music
Speaker 1: stuff for like Andrea the Thousand Sierra or whatever, and
Speaker 1: then when she transitioned, she lost all her work and
Speaker 1: she was homeless for I think years, she was telling
Speaker 1: us at the talk back, and so this doc was
Speaker 1: like part of the art that she was like making
Speaker 1: to figure out like what her next step in art is,
Speaker 1: and she is going to be famous. Her name is
Speaker 1: d Smith. Everyone should like check out this dock like
Speaker 1: the second it's available to them. Truly, it's so thought
Speaker 1: sounds fabulous, and I will take your word for it
Speaker 1: and probably watch it, even though I'm very anti documentary.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of like any other highlights from
Speaker 1: the weekend, but like I was basically just like driving
Speaker 1: around and like in snow and like being bundled up
Speaker 1: and like waiting outside of like parties like cold, the
Speaker 1: phone's miserable and hanging out of the Chase Sapphire Reserve
Speaker 1: lounge lovely. Um Well, speaking of snow and ice, I
Speaker 1: wanted to take a quick little detour into corner Um.
Speaker 1: So I know, I know that as a family we're
Speaker 1: still reading man Hunt. I'm reading it very slowly, but
Speaker 1: I did read and literally one sitting the other night,
Speaker 1: a gay hockey romance. What was it giving? Was it
Speaker 1: giving YOURII on ice? Yeah, but but sexier and about
Speaker 1: hockey um. And it was called Heated Rivalry. It's part
Speaker 1: of a series of gay hockey fiction and it was
Speaker 1: recommended by someone I follow on TikTok and I read
Speaker 1: it in one sitting, and it's about these two hockey
Speaker 1: players who get drafted at the same time and have
Speaker 1: this sort of media driven rivalry. But like as soon
Speaker 1: as they meet there into each other and they secretly
Speaker 1: fuck for years, um, and then like eventually fall in love.
Speaker 1: And it was a very good way to spend an evening.
Speaker 1: The sex scenes were really hot, and I definitely recommend
Speaker 1: it if you're just looking for some gay porn to
Speaker 1: read it basically you're looking for some porn to read,
Speaker 1: you can set some emotional gay porn. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for something to kind of like fill
Speaker 1: the hole that your on ice Um used to occupy
Speaker 1: it because I just like, well, I wish I could
Speaker 1: experience that series for the first time over and over again.
Speaker 1: I know same. It's really no thoughts had empty, just vibes,
Speaker 1: which was really what I was looking for. What else
Speaker 1: have I been enjoying recently? I want to make a
Speaker 1: case that you should watch The Last of Us? Have
Speaker 1: you heard anything about it? I've seen people talking about it,
Speaker 1: and I've been seeing how pedro pedro pscal what is
Speaker 1: that his name? Um, I've been seeing like everyone thirst
Speaker 1: over him, and I yeah, I probably will watch it.
Speaker 1: What's it about? So it's a zombie show. It takes
Speaker 1: place in a post apocalyptic world in which you know,
Speaker 1: the society has fallen due to a zombie plague. It's
Speaker 1: adapted from a video game series and in and in
Speaker 1: this iteration um, the zombie plague is a fungus that
Speaker 1: has taken over humanity. So the zombies are very like
Speaker 1: the zombies heads have like split open and like mushrooms
Speaker 1: and fungi are sprouting from them. And they're also like
Speaker 1: part of a hive mind that's connected through like scores.
Speaker 1: That's cool, so they like they can like sync up
Speaker 1: and like communicate with each other. Yeah, it's like they're
Speaker 1: these threads that connect them. So if you like step
Speaker 1: on one a mile away, a bunch of a bunch
Speaker 1: of the zombies will know, and we'll know where you
Speaker 1: are and then we'll come running to get you. Um.
Speaker 1: So the so from what I've heard, it's very faithful
Speaker 1: to the video game. There's almost like a prologue in
Speaker 1: the first episode where Pedro Pascal, who's the main character,
Speaker 1: it's about how his life for the Outbreak started, and
Speaker 1: you follow his daughter and like get kind of her
Speaker 1: point of view of like things starting to be weird
Speaker 1: and how things went awry. Um. And I don't want
Speaker 1: to spoil it for you, so I won't say more
Speaker 1: than that. But then it jumps twenty years in the
Speaker 1: future to where he's now this um smuggler in what
Speaker 1: used to be Boston which is now like a fascist
Speaker 1: military state, and he and his girlfriend are tasked with
Speaker 1: um smuggling this young girl out by the Resistance. And
Speaker 1: the show is, I guess, sort of like a road
Speaker 1: trip story about them making their way across the US,
Speaker 1: where like there's tons of like zombies and like raiders
Speaker 1: and slavers, and Um. Even in the first episode, I
Speaker 1: could tell that a lot of the visuals were probably
Speaker 1: pulled directly from the video game, like scenes were they're
Speaker 1: in a car and there's like people running in front
Speaker 1: of them. It's like you can feel how that probably
Speaker 1: was lifted directly from the game, but it's done in
Speaker 1: such a like what beautifully fil mcway. The performances are incredible. Um.
Speaker 1: Pedro Pascal's daughter is played by Tandy Way Newton from
Speaker 1: West World her daughter, and she's so incredible. Um. The
Speaker 1: girl who he eventually has to smuggle is played by
Speaker 1: the actress from the latter seasons of Game of Thrones
Speaker 1: who played Leona Morimont and she was also in that
Speaker 1: Lena Duna movie. I was like, I've seen her from
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones. Um. But yeah, it's really entertaining, very scary. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, really good. Just Sunday Night Musty TV. I
Speaker 1: definitely recommend it. I'm actually literally going to watch it
Speaker 1: now because I was just waiting for someone to kind
Speaker 1: of sell it to me. Um. Honestly, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people come to this podcast like waiting to
Speaker 1: be sold on something. So UM. I was it was
Speaker 1: between that or you know what else. You know, what
Speaker 1: was on my list maybe for tonight was the Madonna
Speaker 1: doc Truth or Dair, which I've actually never seen. Oh,
Speaker 1: you've never seen Yes, which I've heard it's incredible. Well,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's been in the culture a lot
Speaker 1: because the video Madonna put out last week to announce
Speaker 1: her Yes the World tour. Yeah, it's that that video
Speaker 1: is modeled after Truth or scene in Truth Their Dare,
Speaker 1: in which Madonna plays Truth Their Dare with her backup dancers,
Speaker 1: which is a little weird now considering that a lot
Speaker 1: of those backup dancers ended up suing her. There was
Speaker 1: there was like they felt really like abandoned by her
Speaker 1: and a lot of that process. Um, but it was
Speaker 1: a really strange video of her and Amy Schumer and
Speaker 1: Jack Black and a lot of people queen and yeah,
Speaker 1: Meg Stalter looked very confused as to why she was
Speaker 1: there being Bob the drag queen. Um. There was like
Speaker 1: there was one of their little Wayne, Yeah, little Wayne.
Speaker 1: There was one. Oh. Um, Kate Berland like like these
Speaker 1: people like what is the checks? The check? Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy for the folks that were in the movie.
Speaker 1: I'm just like thinking about like Madonna, it's just like
Speaker 1: I guess I can only speak for like Twitter people,
Speaker 1: like people who are very online that like this like
Speaker 1: mishmash of celebrities is like so random, Like the only
Speaker 1: thing they have in common is like maybe a kind
Speaker 1: of gay following that you know, have proof of, like
Speaker 1: viral popularity. In some way. It's just weird for that
Speaker 1: Madonna thinks she needs something like that to sell a
Speaker 1: world tour. Like Madonna can literally we just say I'm
Speaker 1: going on tour. I guess that it's a cute little
Speaker 1: announcement thing and like it's fine. I don't mind that
Speaker 1: it exists, but it's just it was weird. I just
Speaker 1: think that Madonna is like kind of you know, rather
Speaker 1: has been like in her flop era for like a
Speaker 1: few albums, and I will flop eras like so pejorative
Speaker 1: and like country like I just like she used to
Speaker 1: be for like decades, someone who truly did have her
Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of the culture right, Like she
Speaker 1: was good at sniffing out subculture, at seeing what's cool,
Speaker 1: at like taking like creators and underground DJs or whatever
Speaker 1: and putting them into her work. And then those people
Speaker 1: transcend into greatness along with her right, Um, I'm giving
Speaker 1: her a lot of credit in this very sweeping summary
Speaker 1: of her, but like in this era specifically, like her
Speaker 1: instincts just like don't smell right like and her well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it just feels very out of date, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Anna, it's Madonna used to create culture and
Speaker 1: now she chases culture. That is the problem. But the
Speaker 1: thing is where Madonna has always excelled far and away
Speaker 1: is in performance, and so I have faith that she
Speaker 1: will create something really exceptional in these live tours, as
Speaker 1: long as it's not all fucking TikTok remixes of her
Speaker 1: greatest hits. And I haven't bought tickets yet, but I
Speaker 1: really want to get my hands on tickets because when
Speaker 1: I saw Madonna for the Madam X tour, it was
Speaker 1: the best concert I've ever seen. I cried through like
Speaker 1: half of it. I it was such a it was
Speaker 1: such a profound theatrical experience. I it was amazing. And
Speaker 1: like the album, I did like the album, but the
Speaker 1: tour really brought it alive to me in a different way. Wow,
Speaker 1: are you alone and liking the Madam X album? I
Speaker 1: feel like not a ton of Madonna people liked that album.
Speaker 1: I think the real Madonna heads do appreciate it. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's good to know. I honestly can't wait to do
Speaker 1: our Madonna episode one day so that I can give
Speaker 1: like some of these other albums to close listen. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I honestly really want to see her the show
Speaker 1: as well. Like, honestly, someone listening should figure out how
Speaker 1: to get us free tickets because like she famously doesn't
Speaker 1: do her hits at concerts right like she'll she'll she
Speaker 1: she does, she does them, but she does she does
Speaker 1: them in new interpretations, like like mixes and stuff like
Speaker 1: not not even necessarily remixes, but just like in different contexts.
Speaker 1: One of the most moving moments of the amount of
Speaker 1: X tour was she performed Frozen, but she wasn't. Like
Speaker 1: there was a video on stage of her daughter Lords
Speaker 1: dancing that was the like instead of Madonna performing like
Speaker 1: that was the performance and it was so like transcendently
Speaker 1: like indescribably beautiful and touching. Um, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: want to see her again so badly, but I'm going
Speaker 1: to need her to take that grill out. So that's
Speaker 1: where we don't get like spit on as an audience. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So I was home visiting my family last week and
Speaker 1: did catch up on some of the Oscar movies, just
Speaker 1: knowing that, you know, the nominations were about to come out.
Speaker 1: And that's not true. I actually I watched The Menu,
Speaker 1: which I had already seen, and every and we had
Speaker 1: to keep telling my mom to cover her eyes with
Speaker 1: the quote unquote scary parts scary part um. But then
Speaker 1: my mom and I watched The Bandshees of Innisharin and
Speaker 1: it is so good. I was gooped and gagged. And
Speaker 1: this is coming from someone who hated Three Billboards, like
Speaker 1: walked like wanted to burn the theater down after I
Speaker 1: saw it. It is so beautiful and funny and uh
Speaker 1: like sad and weird and like it is weird right
Speaker 1: like it it's touching. It would be really fucking weird.
Speaker 1: It's very weird. But it's such a good movie, with
Speaker 1: such fantastic performances, amazing music, incredible cinematography. It just I
Speaker 1: loved it, and I was not expecting to love it,
Speaker 1: I really I Yeah, I wouldn't have expected you to
Speaker 1: like it either. I honestly, it's going to take a
Speaker 1: lot to get me to watch that movie. It does
Speaker 1: not have the bones of something that I want to
Speaker 1: watch in a movie, but your endorsement of it is
Speaker 1: quite That's like a pretty high endorsement. Um much more
Speaker 1: than the Academy. That is, although I am shook that
Speaker 1: the Academy nominated everything everywhere, all at once, the most
Speaker 1: out of any other film like that is such a win,
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised. I I think that was. I think
Speaker 1: the tide has turned enough that that was. I was
Speaker 1: not worried that that film wouldn't get the recognition it deserves.
Speaker 1: I was just trying to change the topic to the
Speaker 1: fact that there are a lot of movies on here
Speaker 1: that definitely are on here more than they need to be,
Speaker 1: even if they're only on here once. For example, Avatar
Speaker 1: The Way of Water. No Avatar deserves it's Best Picture nomination.
Speaker 1: Can I just talk to you about the fact that
Speaker 1: I did, in fact see Avatar The Way of Water
Speaker 1: in IMAX? So you did, Yes, I saw it. Oh
Speaker 1: what did you think? Because we still haven't talked about
Speaker 1: it because you didn't see it. I I don't even
Speaker 1: know what I can say that would make a productive conversation.
Speaker 1: But I definitely think that the movie delivered pretty much
Speaker 1: exactly what it promised, and therefore I can only be
Speaker 1: so snobby about it, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: I thought the movie was to me so rudimentary and
Speaker 1: so inanely stupid at times. But the movie is like
Speaker 1: ostensibly for like children, or rather like the movie is
Speaker 1: just like for the whitest human possible audience in existence,
Speaker 1: like literally in the history of like film mic reception
Speaker 1: ever um is like their goal, you know, like James
Speaker 1: Cameron literally just has a different goal than like all
Speaker 1: other filmmakers, right, Like God, I just did the movie
Speaker 1: is not for me. It's just not for me. And
Speaker 1: I did want to walk I wanted to walk out,
Speaker 1: and I did not need disease. Sigourney Weaver as a teenager,
Speaker 1: as a teenager like like getting stoned, rolling around in
Speaker 1: nature and like all of those stunts too, song imagining
Speaker 1: her like getting stung by a jellyfish, like it's so crazy,
Speaker 1: Like I and I love, we love Sigourney Weaver to me,
Speaker 1: Like my response was, just like you have to have
Speaker 1: more pride in yourself as an actor than this, like that,
Speaker 1: like if I was Sigourney Weaver and James Cameron was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: you made my first movie such a huge success. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna throw you a bone by making you this fifteen
Speaker 1: year old girl rather this fifteen year old non binary
Speaker 1: novv um because they did kind of have this kind
Speaker 1: of like faggy haircut. Um. I would have been insulted.
Speaker 1: If I was Sigourney, I would be like, what like
Speaker 1: rerite insulted because there he's making her a main character
Speaker 1: in one of the biggest movies in the world, literally
Speaker 1: like the Third Growth, the third highest grossing film of
Speaker 1: all time. I think Fran like, yeah, I get I
Speaker 1: get it, but like it it's not like it's not
Speaker 1: like she said no, like she's signed up to do that.
Speaker 1: I know, but that's but it's so distract It was
Speaker 1: so distracting to me. Um. Yeah, I love the whale though,
Speaker 1: love the whale, Love the whale, also love um uh
Speaker 1: Kate Winslet's daughter being like such a baddie that like
Speaker 1: there's one when she's introduced she like flips her hair
Speaker 1: over her ears. That's like so um, I want to
Speaker 1: say anachronistic, but it's it just feels like very out
Speaker 1: of place. In the world that there is no it
Speaker 1: was giving. It was giving like Bond Girl like it
Speaker 1: was it was giving, Like who that girl the Kate
Speaker 1: Winslet's daughter from the Water Tribe is Claudia from Interview
Speaker 1: with a Vampire? No way, Oh my god. That honestly,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not going to be the one to
Speaker 1: like have all the nuanced conversations about Avatar because like
Speaker 1: I think intellectualizing that movie in general is just like
Speaker 1: such a waste of time, Like like, why the criticizing
Speaker 1: this movie at all? It doesn't fucking matter because it's
Speaker 1: going to still make billions of dollars. But like for me,
Speaker 1: it's like I it's just when I was watching it,
Speaker 1: it's this is not a critique. This is just franz
Speaker 1: experience of the movie and me feeling like I'm watching
Speaker 1: it and I'm like, you know what, this movie could
Speaker 1: have been animated. It could have been an animate It
Speaker 1: was no, no, no no, it could have been no no,
Speaker 1: it could have been a hundred percent animated, and they
Speaker 1: could have spent a billion and a half dollars less
Speaker 1: on it, and that billion and a half dollars could
Speaker 1: have gone to literally anything else that but well, I'm
Speaker 1: happy to Avatar and I am. I was just talking
Speaker 1: to like, spend another billion no. This weekend, I was
Speaker 1: having I was having dinner with a friend and saying, oh,
Speaker 1: and I remember, I need to see Avatar again. I
Speaker 1: need to see it in IMAX this time, and possibly
Speaker 1: in forty X. The only reason I saw it in
Speaker 1: Imax is because it was the only screening at like
Speaker 1: a sensible hour. And I don't I do not, actually
Speaker 1: and this is like the non snob frand I do
Speaker 1: not think three D added to my experience at all.
Speaker 1: I really wished I had watched it in two D.
Speaker 1: I also will be seeing the Titanic re release that
Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks now that we will show
Speaker 1: up for I will go down with this ship. I'd
Speaker 1: be speaking of, you know, post apocalyptic big budget action franchises.
Speaker 1: We're going to be diving deep into the Hunger Games today.
Speaker 1: Who would win in a fight between NATII and Catness Everdeene?
Speaker 1: Who's Terry, Zoe Sell, Donna, Zoey Sell, Donna, Okay, definitely Zoe.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she would really intimidate Catanus with all of
Speaker 1: her like hissing and guttural moans. Because she literally had
Speaker 1: sorry again. This is why I think it's like I
Speaker 1: think James Cameron is looking stupid. It's like all Zoe
Speaker 1: had to do with this movie was like I was crying, like,
Speaker 1: don't you wish she had no other lines? Don't you
Speaker 1: wish that there was a blue Donald Sutherland and Avatar
Speaker 1: talking about him? Donald Southern would be amazing. He should
Speaker 1: have played the fifteen year old non binary. Yes. So
Speaker 1: I have a sort of um process that I go
Speaker 1: through every year around this time, which is that during
Speaker 1: the holidays, I do a rewatch of all the Harry
Speaker 1: Potter movies and all the Lord of the Rings movies
Speaker 1: because to me, those are Christmas films. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: the Lord of the Rings literally the day the Fellowship
Speaker 1: is formed is on Christmas Day. Canomically, you know, you
Speaker 1: know how like when you open up streaming services during
Speaker 1: the holidays is like here's the Christmas section, Like someone
Speaker 1: needs to sponsor you and be like these are roses
Speaker 1: quote unquote Christmas will Actually this year did like a
Speaker 1: big Harry Potter Christmas thing. They had you know those
Speaker 1: videos where you can watch a fireplace burn and just
Speaker 1: like put it in the background. Is like ambient noise.
Speaker 1: They had a Harry Potter version of that one. It's
Speaker 1: like it's the fireplace in the Griffin door common and
Speaker 1: then like serious his face comes out of it. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I did. I did like fast forward through it to
Speaker 1: see if they or any fun lettle you can throw
Speaker 1: like flu powder, if there's a flu powder green and
Speaker 1: it um. So I watched those during the holidays, and
Speaker 1: then when the year starts over again, I realized that
Speaker 1: I always then go and watch the Hunger Games, which
Speaker 1: I I do agree there's something seasonal, seasonal about them,
Speaker 1: and I honestly a lot of people Okay, here's the
Speaker 1: thing about Hunger Games. Hunger Games belongs in this genre
Speaker 1: of movies where if you are in a group function
Speaker 1: trying to decide on a movie and someone says Hunger Games,
Speaker 1: everyone's gonna be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, let's just
Speaker 1: watch Hunger Games. Because we all have a certain level
Speaker 1: of familiarity with it. Everyone has their favorites of the movies.
Speaker 1: They're like they're wildly entertaining. They're very entertained, and production
Speaker 1: value stands, you know, the test of time. The acting
Speaker 1: is good. There's both stuff too, like seriously like engage
Speaker 1: with and be enthralled by. And also you can just
Speaker 1: like watch and commentate and make fun of it. And
Speaker 1: also I think the reason why I watched them this
Speaker 1: time of year specifically is like we're post holidays. Everything's
Speaker 1: a little like bleak and depressing, and so what do
Speaker 1: I want to watch? Um? Teen Dystopia, I mean, Dystopia
Speaker 1: is like as a genre, films now so massively successful
Speaker 1: every network and streaming service is, or rather maybe even
Speaker 1: that time it's almost passed. But like so many dystopian
Speaker 1: films in the bird Box era have like come through
Speaker 1: as they become more and more popular, which is interesting
Speaker 1: considering the world, the real world as we know it
Speaker 1: is also falling apart in dystopia. It's also sort of
Speaker 1: like comforting dystopia. Bird Box actually, like when you look
Speaker 1: at the actual trend of dystopic media, bird Box is
Speaker 1: kind of late in the game. So there's a very
Speaker 1: interesting um YouTube video by Sarah Z who's a YouTuber
Speaker 1: that I've I've brought up on here before. I really
Speaker 1: like her video essays. She has one that's called what
Speaker 1: Happened to Teen Dystopia, which is all about how there
Speaker 1: was this huge trend um in the early tens of
Speaker 1: y A dystopia. Hunger Games is the biggest one, but
Speaker 1: there was also the Divergent Movies book and movie series,
Speaker 1: which is what gave us Shaleene Woodley. Um, and it
Speaker 1: followed right after, um, Twilight Mania and the Craze of
Speaker 1: y a supernatural romance and um, that is a really
Speaker 1: interesting video essay if you want to kind of know
Speaker 1: more about how the team Dystopia phenomenon started and why
Speaker 1: it ended kind of early. But even though it quote
Speaker 1: unquote ended, it has lingered. It just has lingered in
Speaker 1: I would say, more adult projects. And so we have
Speaker 1: things like all all zombie movies are kind of in
Speaker 1: a way dystopic because you know, the zombie apocalypse, like
Speaker 1: the End of the World. Um, we have things like, um,
Speaker 1: The Leftovers, which is like I've never watched, but I
Speaker 1: actually kind of want to because I know that people
Speaker 1: say it's one of the best TV shows ever, and
Speaker 1: it's like about the Rapture also in this genre. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but a few nights ago, the
Speaker 1: full Moon like woke me up at six am and
Speaker 1: I was like, what the funk? And I didn't know
Speaker 1: what to do with my body or what to do
Speaker 1: to use up my time. And so I started to
Speaker 1: watch The Handmaid's Tale. Oh, but that is not my
Speaker 1: comfort That is not a comfort watch like that is,
Speaker 1: but that is dystopia to a t um on the
Speaker 1: Hunger Games. Though I have to say, I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is like I would. I really want to
Speaker 1: watch that video essay now. But I'm thinking a lot
Speaker 1: about what Jennifer Lawrence brings to that franchise in comparison
Speaker 1: to any sort of like hy a action or dystopian
Speaker 1: um movie. And I think that jen for Lawrence is
Speaker 1: act tank like. She is so viscerally and emotionally human,
Speaker 1: raw and reel in something that is so not real.
Speaker 1: And I just don't think when we talk about something
Speaker 1: like bird Box or whatever, just sopan movies aren't doing
Speaker 1: that at all. And this is kind of you know,
Speaker 1: this was kind of my critique when we were talking
Speaker 1: about Bones and all that I didn't totally um fully verbalized,
Speaker 1: but when I kept saying, it's so, it's so. I
Speaker 1: it's like Taylor Russell, who I adore, was doing a
Speaker 1: y a performance in a way that Jennifer Lawrence was
Speaker 1: not in a y A franchise. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: I get what you're trying to say. I still we won't.
Speaker 1: We won't get side track. Let's we're actually getting ahead
Speaker 1: of ourselves. So um, let's talk about what the Hunger
Speaker 1: Games is. Do we have to do though? Yeah? Well
Speaker 1: Phoebe even our producer doesn't know so knows what it's about. Yeah, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so this is why we need to and so buddy
Speaker 1: Phoebe is on them. Is like in our head funds
Speaker 1: talking does about we also are here to educate. So
Speaker 1: The Hunger Games is a series of books written by
Speaker 1: Suzanne Collins. The first book came out in two thousand eight.
Speaker 1: The subsequent books came out in two thousand and there
Speaker 1: was a fourth book that UM was released, which is
Speaker 1: actually being made into a movie. It's a prequel series
Speaker 1: Hunter Shaffers in it. They also were adapted into a
Speaker 1: film series UM. The first film came out in two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve, and the books are set in a dystopic
Speaker 1: version of North America in which there are twelve districts
Speaker 1: that are ruled over by the capital. The districts in
Speaker 1: the history of pen m which is what this you
Speaker 1: know post a post apocalyptic um nation is called are
Speaker 1: being punished for an up rising that was perpetrated seventy
Speaker 1: five years ago. And this thing has been installed called
Speaker 1: the Hunger Games, which is um part reality show, part deathmatch,
Speaker 1: in which every year, two teenagers are reaped in a
Speaker 1: lottery from each district and put into an arena to
Speaker 1: battle to the death until one of them survives at
Speaker 1: the behest of a one president snow played by old
Speaker 1: flash Donald Sutherland, Queen Um. And so The Hungry Games
Speaker 1: is obviously very derivative of things like Battle Royale, which
Speaker 1: did this first. It also is somewhat derivative of The Lottery,
Speaker 1: which is a short story that you probably read in
Speaker 1: middle school in which there's a lottery and the person
Speaker 1: who wins I didn't even know that gets stoned to death. Um.
Speaker 1: And these books were immediately successful. They were huge. They
Speaker 1: were as they filled the post Twilight space because I
Speaker 1: guess because of the like hugely negative cultural reaction to Twilight,
Speaker 1: in which the interests of teenage girls were seen as
Speaker 1: frivolous and purely romantic. You know, there was so much
Speaker 1: in pop culture about how Bella was like, you know,
Speaker 1: like a sort of nothing heroine. She was a Mary Sue.
Speaker 1: All she cared about was this boy who she was
Speaker 1: in love with. Um Catness really filled that negative space
Speaker 1: that she left of being this why a heroine who
Speaker 1: had tons of agency and skills and like her you know,
Speaker 1: love triangle that she was and was very secondary to
Speaker 1: her just wanting to survive. So in the story of
Speaker 1: the Hunger Games, Catness lives in District twelve with her
Speaker 1: mother and her sister. At the reaping day for the
Speaker 1: Hunger Games, her sister, whose very young, is selected. Catness
Speaker 1: volunteers to go in her place. I volunteers tribute as
Speaker 1: a meme that will live forever, and the boys selected
Speaker 1: to go with her is the son of the local baker,
Speaker 1: who is, as it turns out, in love with Catanus.
Speaker 1: They go in the Hunger Games together and survive by
Speaker 1: sort of manufacturing this love story because like I think
Speaker 1: that's what makes this interesting. Is like in a lot
Speaker 1: of the other like in something like Battle Royale, there's
Speaker 1: not the same element of surveillance that the Hunger Games
Speaker 1: has because the Hunger Games is, as we understand it
Speaker 1: in the world of the books and the movies, is
Speaker 1: a televised event that people are watching. So it's not
Speaker 1: just it's not something that's just happening in the arena.
Speaker 1: It's something that is a show for everyone watching. So
Speaker 1: they survive because they create the story of them being
Speaker 1: star cross lovers, and then this eventually leads to them
Speaker 1: like kind of by accident, starting a revolution, and that
Speaker 1: is what happens in the subsequent books and films. Wait
Speaker 1: side note, Should I see Battle see Slash read Battle Royale?
Speaker 1: Is it good? I've never I've never actually heard anyone
Speaker 1: talk about Yeah. I read the book like years and years.
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, when it was floating around, but
Speaker 1: I never actually consumed it. So but yeah, same genre, um,
Speaker 1: also familiar. It also feels a little bit like, um,
Speaker 1: what was that Netflix? Um, Battle Royal? Squid squid Game?
Speaker 1: It's squid gamey um. Yeah. But okay, So, I honestly
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I was not like Hunger Games pilled.
Speaker 1: I think I consumed Hunger Games just the way everyone
Speaker 1: consumed Hunger Games. Like. I was just like, this is
Speaker 1: the movie that everyone's seeing it and it looks amazing.
Speaker 1: It's starring the most famous actress of this time, Jennifer
Speaker 1: Lawrence and so it was her big break, right. Well,
Speaker 1: but so Winter is her big mainstream break, right she
Speaker 1: was non native. For Winter's Bone, She's on the Academy's radar.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, this is like the moment where it's
Speaker 1: like we all now universally stand Jennifer Lawrence. And also
Speaker 1: Jennifer Lawrence off screen was a part of like the
Speaker 1: appeal of like her in a press junger. She was
Speaker 1: so charismatic and funny and the girl that you wanted
Speaker 1: to get a beer with. And you know, well that
Speaker 1: I think came as she started, because Winter's Bone is
Speaker 1: what brought her to the attention of the industry, and
Speaker 1: then the Hunger Games is what brought her to the
Speaker 1: attention of the culture. And yes, she did gain this
Speaker 1: reputation for like talking about pizza and like being like
Speaker 1: one of the guys. She's very like the gone girl monologue,
Speaker 1: like yeah, she was a cool girl. She was a
Speaker 1: cool and and you know, there was a hugely negative,
Speaker 1: um like backswing to that, and that is why she
Speaker 1: really has pulled back in her public life, a negative
Speaker 1: backswing that follows pretty much any woman who is in
Speaker 1: the public. Yeah, it's just misogyny. Um, I was a
Speaker 1: little Hunger Games pilled. I did read the books. I
Speaker 1: mean sort of like in the same way that I
Speaker 1: read Twilight. Was like I was bored one summer, so
Speaker 1: I read all the books. I also, I believe, read
Speaker 1: all three books and I did not read the other one.
Speaker 1: And the books are good, and they hold up, and
Speaker 1: they have a lot of I think, really valuable social
Speaker 1: commentary in them. It's a world that is like obviously
Speaker 1: very far away from our own, but not by that much.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's not. And also like in at least from
Speaker 1: what I remember, Hunger Games like really stays in Catness's perspective,
Speaker 1: and and it's all told in first person, a lot
Speaker 1: of interiority, a lot of angst honestly, so it's satiated
Speaker 1: like young adult angst, while also bringing this kind of
Speaker 1: like next level um uh them fatal heroine, I mean
Speaker 1: not she's not in the fatal genre, but you know what, Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a very she's very capable. Like that's that's the thing.
Speaker 1: The only reason why she's able to survive the Games
Speaker 1: is because she um has trained herself to be a hunter.
Speaker 1: She's an archer, as like one of my favorite tailors
Speaker 1: I've sung she is the archer. Um. Wait, what would
Speaker 1: your weapon of choice be if you were in the
Speaker 1: Hunger Games? Um, if I was in the Hunger Games,
Speaker 1: I would die first. Well, I mean that's true, but
Speaker 1: what would to answer the question? What would I would
Speaker 1: be a knife, and I would slit my own threat,
Speaker 1: Like I would say, actually when the cannon went off,
Speaker 1: I would just like jumps or no, I would jump
Speaker 1: before the cannon went off so that I got blown up.
Speaker 1: I don't have to deal with all that. Oh god,
Speaker 1: I mean anyways, Um, I would definitely have a mace.
Speaker 1: I would have like that. You know that seems very unwieldy,
Speaker 1: and I think you would hurt yourself. I would just
Speaker 1: work out my upper body. Think you would like try
Speaker 1: to swing or something like that, Like, yeah, I would
Speaker 1: be it would be no, I would learn how to
Speaker 1: you have to. You would have to learn how to
Speaker 1: master whatever weapon you choose. And I think I would
Speaker 1: train ahead and learn the mace because I think there's
Speaker 1: an intimidation actor with the mace. And I also just
Speaker 1: want to be like, you know, like a like a
Speaker 1: bimbo with a mace, Like I just think that's kind
Speaker 1: of fierce. And I would be in full sled gear,
Speaker 1: like absolutely, like it would be giving, Like, um, it
Speaker 1: would be giving. I was gonna say, dolls kill, but
Speaker 1: hopefully maybe some like Deon, like a dion Lee kind
Speaker 1: of like armor suit. Maybe a Muglaire dion Lee or
Speaker 1: you could be Laura Croft, right, it would be very
Speaker 1: tomb rate about yes, but my, but my Lenny Kravitz.
Speaker 1: My sinna would be Mouglare Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: In my dream world, I would say like I was
Speaker 1: Hunger Games pilled by the books, but then the movies
Speaker 1: were what I was really interested in. But I was
Speaker 1: only really interested in the first two, and then by
Speaker 1: the time the final two came out, I was like
Speaker 1: kind of bored. I didn't think they should have been
Speaker 1: split into two. The third book should have been split
Speaker 1: into two movies. Like that was very post Harry Potter
Speaker 1: when everyone started doing that. I do. I will say this,
Speaker 1: I've said this before, the best of the Hunger Games
Speaker 1: movies is the second one, Catching Fire, even though I
Speaker 1: do think the first movie is fantastic. And the reason
Speaker 1: why I think the movies are so popular and so
Speaker 1: enduring is because there was a lot of work put
Speaker 1: into them to make them good films. Um, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of craft in them. Um, there's a reason why
Speaker 1: Jennifer Lawrence was cast. Like, yes, it's because she's a
Speaker 1: fantastic actress. But the character she played in Winter's Bone,
Speaker 1: who's this like folksy American girl trying to like make
Speaker 1: it in like ury um, very much translates to the
Speaker 1: Hunger Games, Like she had played that kind of role before.
Speaker 1: She was someone who was like have this like inner
Speaker 1: strength and resilience. And Um, the first movie, like it
Speaker 1: does not shy away from how fucked up what's happening is.
Speaker 1: You know, there these are teenagers who are being pitted
Speaker 1: against each pit against each other to fight to the
Speaker 1: death on reality TV. And that's fucked up. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: really is. And the movies get progressively darker. I don't.
Speaker 1: I assume the books do too, though I remember they
Speaker 1: were just dark from the I mean all, they're all
Speaker 1: dark from the start, but like, I don't really remember.
Speaker 1: I think the last movie is probably the worst. I
Speaker 1: remember kind of liking the third movie, like the Julianne
Speaker 1: Moore of it all and like everything that blows up. Um,
Speaker 1: but let's just say it's very like bloated, and that
Speaker 1: they try to make a lot out of not a
Speaker 1: lot of plot, because the whole the whole third book
Speaker 1: is like half of it is catnets trying to essentially
Speaker 1: create like pro rebellion propaganda. And then the final part
Speaker 1: of it, which is what the last movie is, is
Speaker 1: they actually like storm the capital and the Capital has
Speaker 1: like been turned into basically a version of a Hunger
Speaker 1: Games arena that they have to survive. Complete side note,
Speaker 1: do you think the Harry Potter finale should have been
Speaker 1: split into two movies or would you do you wish
Speaker 1: that it had been one? No? I actually think it
Speaker 1: makes I agree. I totally agree, having having watched, having
Speaker 1: just done my you know, like annual Harry Potter rewatch.
Speaker 1: There is so much story in deathitely Hallows, and those
Speaker 1: movies are two very different things. I actually did a
Speaker 1: list ranking all the Harry Potter movies, and it's funny
Speaker 1: that definitely holl Is Part one is one of my
Speaker 1: favorite movies and as Part two is my least avorite
Speaker 1: of all the films, not because it's bad, just because
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to watch, and it is one specific thing.
Speaker 1: It is the Battle of Hogwarts. It is the culmination,
Speaker 1: it's where everyone dies. It's super depressing. And you know,
Speaker 1: as we said in our inaugural Harry Potter episode, the
Speaker 1: epilogue is one of the worst things ever written, so horrible,
Speaker 1: and it just was J. K. Rowling showing her ass
Speaker 1: long before she showed her ass in other ways. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: Something I always think about when I think about the
Speaker 1: Hunger Games is there was one there was one year
Speaker 1: where there was like a pride party that shar was
Speaker 1: performing at and she posted this on Instagram. It is
Speaker 1: like a picture of her maybe trash Tyler, Ashley and
Speaker 1: Aquaria and the caption was, like Aquaria came from the
Speaker 1: Capital to visit us in the district and like that's
Speaker 1: that's very funny. And there is so much like there
Speaker 1: were so many memes about like the Capital, because like
Speaker 1: the Capital was where like they had the access to
Speaker 1: the best technology and they weren't starving, and they did
Speaker 1: these like crazy things where they like died their skin
Speaker 1: blue and like, um, it was very it was supposed
Speaker 1: to be giving, like the Roman Empire, because there's this
Speaker 1: whole thing about how they made themselves vomit so they
Speaker 1: could keep eating while people while while you know, the
Speaker 1: common folk were out starving in the districts right right right? Um? Okay,
Speaker 1: uh new launch point, new launch point, because I think
Speaker 1: this is actually important for our dear producer Phoebe, who
Speaker 1: has for some reason never seen any of these movies
Speaker 1: or read any of these books. Can you help the
Speaker 1: Virgins understand the Peta Gail dichotomy? Well, this is this
Speaker 1: is I mean not. I don't think this is controversial
Speaker 1: for me to say that Gail was never like a
Speaker 1: feasible love interest. Let let me let me cross you
Speaker 1: right there, that Gail was the one? How dare you
Speaker 1: you a was not the one. Gail literally is the
Speaker 1: reason Catness's sister is dead, But she was. She was annoying. Also,
Speaker 1: I just think that Gail Peter, just over and over
Speaker 1: and over again, was so like jealous and petty about
Speaker 1: Gail and possessive, and I felt like through a lot
Speaker 1: of what they went through, like I felt like Catness
Speaker 1: was really in it for Gail, and like Gail knew
Speaker 1: who she was at home, but I guess also her
Speaker 1: and I think what her and Peter have is not love.
Speaker 1: I think it's trauma bonding. I mean it is traumabond.
Speaker 1: But that's the thing. Trauma bonding is not love, and
Speaker 1: it makes a bad relationship. But then Catness did come
Speaker 1: to love him because you are witnessing the economy right
Speaker 1: here and now I'm I'm Peter. Peter literally all he
Speaker 1: can do is pay himself like a rock. Like he's
Speaker 1: also very strong and I think strong. Um. But what
Speaker 1: you're saying about them traumabond day, Like, yes, it's true,
Speaker 1: but the entirety of catching fire is once they are
Speaker 1: both forced to go back into the arena, catness Is
Speaker 1: number one priority is that Gail should survive and not her.
Speaker 1: And so I think it shows that while yes, Catness
Speaker 1: has this relationship with with Gail where she if she
Speaker 1: was free from her obligations, she absolutely would be with him,
Speaker 1: and her connection with Peter was created by the like
Speaker 1: in the Crucible of the Hunger Games, she has come
Speaker 1: to value his life more than hers, and like she
Speaker 1: does have all of this feeling for her and she
Speaker 1: wants him to survive, even though that means she will
Speaker 1: never get to go back to her family. To Gail,
Speaker 1: she has fallen in love with him, and then when
Speaker 1: catching Fire ends and Peter is captured by the Capital
Speaker 1: and then they like torture him and make him hate Catness.
Speaker 1: Her number one priority becomes getting him back and like
Speaker 1: fixing his brain, and they do, and then they end
Speaker 1: up together because Gale makes himself not an option because
Speaker 1: he's the reason that Catness his sister dies. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't even remember, honestly, how Catness's sister dies. Is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so Catness's sister dies because Okay, so Gail has like
Speaker 1: devised this thing where they're going to this like trick
Speaker 1: where they're going to trick people like this this bomb
Speaker 1: that explodes twice or something, and Catness's sister dies because
Speaker 1: of it. And even though like I think there's a
Speaker 1: scene where Gayl's like he's not sure that he's like
Speaker 1: actually the one who killed her, but like he could
Speaker 1: have been, and based like at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it's his fault that she died. Damn. I like, honestly,
Speaker 1: this is kind of what I'm talking about. The Fine
Speaker 1: Alley and the Last Maybe I don't know if this
Speaker 1: is part of your um beef with the last two movies,
Speaker 1: but those did kind of blend into the culture for me, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't really actually remember a ton of what those
Speaker 1: last movies felt like because I think the finale is
Speaker 1: such a disappointment. I think by the end everyone was
Speaker 1: just kind of ready for them to end, because the
Speaker 1: thing is, they're not even though they're enthralling and thrilling,
Speaker 1: they're not fun. It's not a fun world to visit
Speaker 1: the way that Harry Potter is. Even though there is
Speaker 1: a lot of death and darkness in Harry Potter, you
Speaker 1: still want to immerse yourself in the world. That's why
Speaker 1: there's literally theme parks that exist, And like, I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to go to a panem theme park. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, even though there should be one. I think
Speaker 1: I think one does exist somewhere. I think I think
Speaker 1: there's like somewhere in Asia, maybe there is some kind
Speaker 1: of Hunger Games theme park, But you know I won't
Speaker 1: be I'm traveling to go to Panama anytime soon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: me either. But back to Catness as a character, like
Speaker 1: I do feel like she became something of a brand
Speaker 1: new archetype. Like I mean, obviously there's a lot of
Speaker 1: varying criticism on it. If you ever read like bad
Speaker 1: feminist and rock sand gays like essay on the Hunger
Speaker 1: Games of it all, and like Catness as a character um,
Speaker 1: but like there, I I do feel like Catness is
Speaker 1: like was like this new like and Jennifer Lawrence not
Speaker 1: not Catness, not just Catiness, but Jennifer Lawrence as Catness
Speaker 1: I think created like a completely different lane maybe for
Speaker 1: heroine's rights. Not not a new one, but it was
Speaker 1: a revived because I do think I do think that
Speaker 1: Catness is more in the legacy of someone like Buffy
Speaker 1: Um and that a lot of people look at pop
Speaker 1: culture and especially pop culture that was popular for teenage
Speaker 1: girls and very much see Bella and Twilight as like
Speaker 1: an anomaly because I think more so we are drawn
Speaker 1: to these heroines who need or want something that is
Speaker 1: not only romantic love. It's usually the romantic love is
Speaker 1: like a byproduct of whatever other adventure they're involved in,
Speaker 1: and the love triangle is secondary. And even in the
Speaker 1: Hunger Games, like the love triangle does feel like something
Speaker 1: that was more to create a marketing creation than something
Speaker 1: that like organically exists in the books. For the films, well,
Speaker 1: it's very hard to push literally any like movie or
Speaker 1: franchise led by a woman without romance, like unfortunately, like
Speaker 1: I don't like that about like you know, Hollywood, but
Speaker 1: you know, execs and story editors are not going to
Speaker 1: want to engage with a woman's action story if it
Speaker 1: doesn't have romance. You know, That's what blockbusters require. And
Speaker 1: so I think that maybe that could be said of
Speaker 1: some of these books, of some of these genres of
Speaker 1: books and things like it. I don't know, but that's
Speaker 1: that's the reason why I like The Hunger Games is
Speaker 1: because it acknowledges that the love story is secondary to
Speaker 1: the survival story. Like I was just watching Catching Fire,
Speaker 1: because the whole reason we're doing this is because I'm
Speaker 1: in the middle of my you know, Hungry Games rewatch.
Speaker 1: And in the like opening act of Catching Fire, where
Speaker 1: Catness is has basically been tasked by President Snow to
Speaker 1: make the people of Pennam believe that the only reason
Speaker 1: she rebelled was because she was in love with Peter,
Speaker 1: because there's an actual rebellion starting, and she tells Gail
Speaker 1: that she wants to run away with him into the
Speaker 1: woods because he's like offered that as an option, and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, I need to be here because there's
Speaker 1: a rebellion starting and then he gets like whipped by
Speaker 1: the peacekeepers who were you know, like the cops of Panem.
Speaker 1: And then it's announced that in the next Hunger Games,
Speaker 1: all of the tributes will come from victors. That means
Speaker 1: that Catus is going back into the game. It's it
Speaker 1: is all stars, all winners. Um. So there's this scene
Speaker 1: where Catness goes out into the woods with Gail and
Speaker 1: he says to her like, I should have left with
Speaker 1: you when you said it, and she's kind of like
Speaker 1: she's the one who gets up and leaves because she's like,
Speaker 1: I don't have time for this anymore. This is no
Speaker 1: longer a love story. This is a survival story. Like
Speaker 1: this is now about life or death, and like you
Speaker 1: and this romance subplot no longer matter because now I'm
Speaker 1: literally fighting for my life. God, speaking of the Harry
Speaker 1: Potter of it all, I have to I have to
Speaker 1: break this up because this is something that I'm culturally
Speaker 1: aware of. It is like it's really big on TikTok
Speaker 1: right now. People who are in the Harry Potter fandom,
Speaker 1: specifically the Marauders fandom, which I'm not sure that you
Speaker 1: know what that is. I have no idea. So the
Speaker 1: Marauders are you know, the marauders map in Harry Potter. Okay,
Speaker 1: so that's mischief managed mooney wormtail, Padvin and Prongs, Harry's dad,
Speaker 1: James Potter, rima sloop in serious black, Peter Petter. So
Speaker 1: there's a whole fandom around that era of Hogwarts and
Speaker 1: like the big the biggest ship in it. And when
Speaker 1: we talk about ship, that's relationship. It's like, I hope
Speaker 1: you know that by this point characters that people shipped together.
Speaker 1: So like the like kind of the o G. Harry
Speaker 1: Potter ship in a lot of ways is wolf Star,
Speaker 1: which is rema slooping and serious black like. And even
Speaker 1: Gary Oldman and David Thulis, who played the characters in
Speaker 1: the films, have said like they kind of played them
Speaker 1: as if they were Wait really, wait do you ship personally? Like?
Speaker 1: In the fan fiction world, I yes, I do. So
Speaker 1: there is so Hunger Games fan fiction is like there
Speaker 1: was a Hunger Games fandom, but I would say within fandom,
Speaker 1: Hunger Games is much more popular as a world to
Speaker 1: set fan fiction in, Like a lot of people set
Speaker 1: other characters in like a Hunger Games universe. So right now,
Speaker 1: there is a an ongoing um fan fiction that I
Speaker 1: believe is like currently maybe like three thousand words long.
Speaker 1: It's called Crimson Rivers, and it is it is a
Speaker 1: Harry Potter hungry games au. And how many of those
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand words have you read? Rose, I'm not
Speaker 1: at liberty. I was. Let's just say that a couple
Speaker 1: of months ago. I was very bored one weekend you had.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, even though it is, even though
Speaker 1: wolf Start is one of the main pairings, it's not
Speaker 1: the main pairing. The main pairing of the story is
Speaker 1: James Potter, Harry Potter's dad, and Regulus Black, serious Black's
Speaker 1: younger brother, who never even appears in the Harry Potter books.
Speaker 1: He is simply so if you if you remember your
Speaker 1: Harry Potter lore, the locket that was one of the
Speaker 1: horcruxes was stolen by Regulus Black, who was a death theater,
Speaker 1: and then he was like, actually, Baltimore, you suck, so
Speaker 1: I'm gonna steal the locker and he left the note
Speaker 1: that was a whole thing. So he has now become
Speaker 1: like a fandom creation, essentially very interesting. People ship him
Speaker 1: with James Potter. Harry Potter said, even though there is
Speaker 1: literally no no textual evidence behind this. Also, James Potter
Speaker 1: is like has no very few characteristics like in the franchise.
Speaker 1: But so but I think the reason why this became
Speaker 1: so popular is because of TikTok, because people make fan
Speaker 1: edits and they do fan casts, and so the most
Speaker 1: popular fan cast for Regulus Black is Timothy Shallow May
Speaker 1: I would love that. And some of these fan edits
Speaker 1: are like very well done. And the most popular fan
Speaker 1: cast for James for a young James Potter is young
Speaker 1: Aaron Taylor Johnson. Aaron Taylor Johnson, Oh my god, Aaron
Speaker 1: Taylor Johnson needs to become like, you know, a part
Speaker 1: of like the like a virgin pantheon. Like he's sold
Speaker 1: him and his old wife, and that's so hot. I
Speaker 1: just think it's very interesting that the Hunger Games, like
Speaker 1: while that's sort of dystopia, has fallen out of fashion,
Speaker 1: and like while I was saying before, it's not really
Speaker 1: like a fun universe to exist in. It is something
Speaker 1: that people keep coming back to in a way that
Speaker 1: they want to always be filtering the characters and fandoms
Speaker 1: they're interested in. Through that Lens. I think because of
Speaker 1: what we were talking about before about how it is
Speaker 1: sad and like bleak, and there's something appealing about the
Speaker 1: angst of that and like the the steaks of it,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I find that fascinating and and
Speaker 1: it is there. We are going to have somewhat of
Speaker 1: a Hunger Games renaissance way this new film, The Ballad
Speaker 1: of Songbirds and Steaks, which is about um young President
Speaker 1: snow Oh the cock Trucker shape fashion Cox Sucker hunter
Speaker 1: Shiver is such a perfect cast to me because she
Speaker 1: deserves to be in an action franchise. She deserves to
Speaker 1: be in something that's not you for it. Yes, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: And also she will just much like Jennifer Lawrence, can
Speaker 1: bring emotional steaks to something that's hyper unreal um surreality. Um.
Speaker 1: But anyways, on the kind of fan casting shipping the
Speaker 1: thing that you just outlined and thinking about, you know,
Speaker 1: the popular characters that everyone wants to stand in Harry Potter,
Speaker 1: who is the couple that everone ships or maybe should
Speaker 1: ship in your eyes in the Hunger Games franchise, Like
Speaker 1: two characters that really should have got it on and
Speaker 1: would be an amazing story in and of themselves. Oh well,
Speaker 1: I mean this is like sort of alluded to in
Speaker 1: the films more than it was in the books. But
Speaker 1: Effie and Hay Mitch, oh yeah, they have scenes a
Speaker 1: kind of Effie that is, to me, Eliza Elizabeth Banks's
Speaker 1: best work. I it definitely is incredible. And I think
Speaker 1: the character development over the course of the franchises when
Speaker 1: stabs the table that is um I have. I did
Speaker 1: say this during our Twilight episode, I believe, But I
Speaker 1: did unfortunately break up with somebody after having a fight
Speaker 1: with them about which characters who were in the Hunger
Speaker 1: Games while we were watching it, because so who do
Speaker 1: you think you are? Okay, So the way the fight
Speaker 1: went down was like he immediately was like, oh you're
Speaker 1: Effie blah blah blah, and I was like, okay, not no,
Speaker 1: but like there was this kind of like tension slash
Speaker 1: recurring conflict like my X and I would have about
Speaker 1: me being a corrupt capitalist or something like that, and
Speaker 1: like and I was just like, Okay, so I see
Speaker 1: the undercurrent of what you're trying to say there, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to take it and stride because I think
Speaker 1: that's really funny. And so I was just like, well then,
Speaker 1: or Peter because he is Peter, because he I was like,
Speaker 1: because you're like a whiny little bit. Okay, well, who
Speaker 1: do you think you are? Um, he is a whiny
Speaker 1: little bit, by the way, Um, I believe you. I
Speaker 1: do think. I believe. I do think I am thank you.
Speaker 1: I do think I'm Effie. I do I think that
Speaker 1: I have in my own life a character arc like Effie's.
Speaker 1: Like I the place that I was ten years ago
Speaker 1: to where I am now has not different belief systems
Speaker 1: the way Effie has. But I've grown a lot in
Speaker 1: like my trajectory as a human being and what I
Speaker 1: want to do with my life. And I'm proud of that.
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to like you know, get rid
Speaker 1: of like who I was before. And I also still
Speaker 1: retain some characteristics from my capitalist days that like you know,
Speaker 1: are part of my judge like I would say, yes,
Speaker 1: I would say that's mahogany okay, like that I would
Speaker 1: And I am um the girl from the first movie
Speaker 1: who's played by the girl from Orphan who throws daggers,
Speaker 1: the one that gets naked in the elevator. No, oh no,
Speaker 1: I'm Joanna, Oh my god, Joanna, Jenna Malone? Who wait?
Speaker 1: Remember that one time we went to Atrium for brunch
Speaker 1: in l A Jennama and I told you Jenna Malone
Speaker 1: had just last and I was like, who is? And
Speaker 1: I like caught eyes with her, and I'm like, j
Speaker 1: was actually kind of gabbed by that, and I'm like
Speaker 1: very unfazed by seeing famous people out in the wild.
Speaker 1: But that scene where she gets into the elevator and
Speaker 1: takes all her clothes off is iconic. Jenna Moroni should
Speaker 1: have been in Hunger Games, so she should have been
Speaker 1: in the capital. I'm I'm Joanna if I'm gonna if
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be any of the Hunger Games characters. But okay,
Speaker 1: so who should have been a couple? Somebody gay? Right? Yes?
Speaker 1: So I would say Joanna and Catness. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: Catness should have should have should have, you know, followed
Speaker 1: her her instincts and ditched these guys. And then I'm
Speaker 1: also going to say Peter and hay Mitch. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: And let me tell you the end of the story
Speaker 1: would have been, there would have been much more harmony.
Speaker 1: I think if he had gotten with Peta and if
Speaker 1: Jennifer Lawrence had been a lesbian like that, I think
Speaker 1: would have satisfied their overall needs as humans. Because back
Speaker 1: to what I was trying to say before, trauma, bonding
Speaker 1: is not love. And it's true that like, yes, like
Speaker 1: she's going through this trauma, trauma that's literally like in
Speaker 1: the books, in the movies, and she's to us. They're
Speaker 1: not totally saying it the way I'm saying it, but
Speaker 1: it's like cattiness is kind of saying towards the end
Speaker 1: of these films, it's like, I have gone through something
Speaker 1: that literally no one else understands unless you've been in
Speaker 1: the thing, right you have. If you haven't been in
Speaker 1: the Hungry Games, you don't understand my trauma. And so
Speaker 1: because there was no going back for Catness, catness emotionally
Speaker 1: it makes sense. I I can concede that Gail is
Speaker 1: no longer a fit, which is why she should have
Speaker 1: gotten with a woman who was in the Hunger Games. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but even I think even outside of even outside of
Speaker 1: the Hunger Games, catness Is experience was more singular than
Speaker 1: anyone else because not only was she manipulated, and this
Speaker 1: is the whole point of the last film, is not
Speaker 1: only was she manipulated by the Capital in a very
Speaker 1: obvious way, she was then manipulated by the Resistance. That's
Speaker 1: the whole reason why she kills Julian Moore at the end.
Speaker 1: It's because she's like, I'm not going to let this
Speaker 1: happen again, because the way the Hunger Games end is
Speaker 1: the Resistance is like, Okay, now we're going to start
Speaker 1: the Hunger Games again, just with the children from the Capitol,
Speaker 1: and Catness is like, it's never gonna fucking end, So
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna kill you. And then Donald Sutherland like laughs,
Speaker 1: He's like ha ha, and then Catiness, you know, she
Speaker 1: removes herself from an entirely. She and Peter go back
Speaker 1: to District twelve and just like have a bunch of
Speaker 1: kids and like fucking big bread for the rest of
Speaker 1: their lives. Fuck and big bread. Now that is a
Speaker 1: happy ending. Um slide into our d m s at
Speaker 1: like a virgin. Tell us what would your weapon of
Speaker 1: choice be on the Hunger Games? Do you think you
Speaker 1: would survive? Um? Are you more of a Capital girly
Speaker 1: or you in one of the districts? Are you team Peter,
Speaker 1: team Gail, team Effie? We want to know um and
Speaker 1: please rate and review us on Spotify and Apple Music.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate that. My name's Rose Damn. You can
Speaker 1: find me anywhere online at Rose Damn you and I'm
Speaker 1: Fran Toronto. You can find me at Friends, Squish, go
Speaker 1: anywhere you like. Like a Virgin is an I Heeart
Speaker 1: radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter with support from
Speaker 1: Lindsey with support from Lindsay Hoffman and Nikki Etre Until
Speaker 1: next week. Um boom, that's the sound of the cannon
Speaker 1: that that happens when someone dies in the Hunger Games.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't whistle, so that was very triggering.
Speaker 1: Three