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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I want to stuff I Never Told You production by

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Speaker 2: Heart Radio. And recently it's come up a couple of

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Speaker 2: times in some of our exsos, especially the one we

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Speaker 2: did around the update on divorce, Strategic and competence really

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Speaker 2: coming back up in the conversation. And I was telling you,

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Speaker 2: I've been watching a lot of these movies that like

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Speaker 2: Oscar nominated or might be Oscar nominated movies, and this

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Speaker 2: comes up a lot. It's having a bit of a

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Speaker 2: moment a bit.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's like the new not me too necessarily,

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Speaker 3: but definitely conversation starter about why women leave.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I was like taken aback at some of

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Speaker 2: these things I was watching, like, oh my goodness. Wow.

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Speaker 2: So another topic. Where going to have to do an

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Speaker 2: update on soon. But in the meantime, please enjoy this

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Speaker 2: classic episode.

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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome.

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Speaker 2: To Stefan Never Told You Protection of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Annie, you and I have been talking about doing this episode.

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Speaker 3: I think we've teased it a little bit in our

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Speaker 3: previous episodes about weaponize and competence, and I know I

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Speaker 3: think we've talked about something similar to this, we had

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Speaker 3: episodes that were kind of similar at least talking around

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Speaker 3: it previously before, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so we have done past episodes on emotional labor,

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Speaker 2: which is related. Surprisingly, Women in Survival Horror has this

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Speaker 2: section that is related that I'm going to talk about

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Speaker 2: a bit later, because of course I'm talking about a

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Speaker 2: lot of fictional stuff that we see. Yes, also our

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Speaker 2: episode on the widowhood effect and widowers has some stuff

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Speaker 2: that's related to what we're talking about, and also episodes

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Speaker 2: on divorce have some of the stuff that we're going

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Speaker 2: to be discussing in this episode.

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Speaker 3: I think we've talked about that as well as with

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Speaker 3: like older being the responsible sibling or or like even

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Speaker 3: like I believe your episode and daddy issues had all

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Speaker 3: of those as well. Like it's a constant theme. And

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons I was like we need to

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Speaker 3: do this, let's talk about this, and you and I

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Speaker 3: started like going back and forth, like we could talk

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Speaker 3: about this and we can talk about this was because

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Speaker 3: there was this whole section in TikTok. Yes, y'all, apparently

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Speaker 3: I'm just TikTok talk all the time.

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Speaker 1: So I apologize talk talk with a bit.

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Speaker 3: I mean, essentially I should just have that corner right

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Speaker 3: because it would never end. But part of that was

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Speaker 3: talking about weaponize and competence to the fact that this

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Speaker 3: one dude, uh, he did a whole little gimmicky song

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Speaker 3: about it, about what it is, and he got attacked

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Speaker 3: by men because he just called it out. There was

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Speaker 3: another TikToker who actually showed a groceray that she sends

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Speaker 3: with her husband, but instead of just being like get eggs,

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Speaker 3: get butter, get milk, it was get these types of

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Speaker 3: eggs and puts the picture next to it to show

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Speaker 3: them exactly what brands to buy, and it just kind

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Speaker 3: of started this huge conversation about what it was, and

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Speaker 3: weaponized incompetence has actually been kind of a newer ish term.

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Speaker 3: It is also known as strategic incompetence. And just in

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Speaker 3: case you don't know, it's the act of fading incompetence

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Speaker 3: that any one task usually and an unpleasant one to get.

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Speaker 1: Out of doing it.

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Speaker 3: And that is from a Huffington Post and it is

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Speaker 3: that's exactly what that is. Is kind of like pretending like

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Speaker 3: you don't know, I.

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Speaker 1: Did this as a kid, but also it wasn't on purpose.

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Speaker 3: It literally was when I was trying to put dishes

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Speaker 3: up and put it in the dishwash dirty sinc. It

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Speaker 3: got to the point that my mother would come behind

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Speaker 3: me and rearrange everything and they're like, what was the

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Speaker 3: point of me doing this? And I would get mad, yeah,

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Speaker 3: because it felt like it was a flight on to me.

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Speaker 3: But the same time, like, eat like the way I

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Speaker 3: do it?

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Speaker 1: I want you just do it the way you want to.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of the flip side.

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Speaker 3: But of course, yeah, that came into when that would

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Speaker 3: be asked the next time around and be like, no,

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Speaker 3: you do it, you do it anyway. I didn't say

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Speaker 3: it that way. My mother would smack me, but it

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Speaker 3: was kind of that implication and I was like, ah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's a whole thing.

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Speaker 2: It is a whole thing. And now that you mentioned that,

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Speaker 2: because we're going to discuss sort of the generalizations and

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Speaker 2: stereotypes about what this looks like, and in general it

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Speaker 2: is usually a man trying to get out of something

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Speaker 2: by saying, oh, you do it better, I can't do it.

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Speaker 2: You do it, yeah, something that's they don't want to do.

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Speaker 2: But now that you mentioned that, there's an interesting flip

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Speaker 2: too of that. In the dating world, where usually women

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Speaker 2: pretend they can't do something so that the men will

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Speaker 2: do it and you can get closer right in that way. Right,

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Speaker 2: So that's interesting. I hadn't thought about that, But that's

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Speaker 2: still like building up the ego of the dude in

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Speaker 2: this right situation.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, I mean you think about it too.

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Speaker 3: When we have in the same Huffington Post article, it

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Speaker 3: talks about the webinize in competence when it comes to

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Speaker 3: female orgasm and I was like, oh, oh yeah, saying

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Speaker 3: like that literal excuse that we've heard many men and

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Speaker 3: meninists say that women are incapable of having an orgasm,

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Speaker 3: so we're not even going to try. And you're like,

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Speaker 3: oh my, oh that makes me sad for you and

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Speaker 3: for every woman that you've ever been with. Please don't

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Speaker 3: be with women, you know, stuff like that. It's like

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Speaker 3: that's a whole either another level of webinized slash strategic incompetence,

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Speaker 3: and it's been used in the workplace, and that's kind

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Speaker 3: of like that bigger arching like this is how damaging

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Speaker 3: this is. This is how women continue to not be

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Speaker 3: able to move forward because people take credit of other

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Speaker 3: people's work and through using strategic incompetence as in fact, oh, y'all.

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Speaker 3: While we were researching this, an old Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 3: article popped up, and I say, oh, because it was

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and seven that this was written.

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Speaker 1: So this has been over fifteen years, and I had

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Speaker 1: to be like, I had to read it.

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Speaker 3: And when I read the word I was like, there's

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Speaker 3: one theme and we're going to talk about it. So

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Speaker 3: this article was written, like I said, in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and seven in the Wall Street Journal, written by Jared

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Speaker 3: at Sandberg. And the title of the article is the

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Speaker 3: art of showing pure incompetence at an unwanted task. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: bear with me while I read this to you, and

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Speaker 3: let's discuss.

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Speaker 1: So he starts.

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Speaker 3: To learn something at the office can be difficult, but

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Speaker 3: to refrain from learning something requires years of practice and refinement.

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Speaker 3: It's an office skill that Stephen Crawley finds indispensable.

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Speaker 2: Quote.

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Speaker 3: The inability to grasp selective things can be very helpful

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Speaker 3: in keeping your desk clear of unwanted clutter, says the

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Speaker 3: executive in HR or what he calls quote the dumping

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Speaker 3: ground of all unwanted office tasks. He says, I have

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Speaker 3: helped a very agile selective memory across a wide range

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Speaker 3: of non value added activities. The most memorable time he

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Speaker 3: brandished his non skill was when the president at an

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Speaker 3: automotive parts manufacturer asked mister Crawley to organize the company

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Speaker 3: picnic with a sensibility more dry than bubbly. He wasn't

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Speaker 3: crazy about party planning, so he began to milk his

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Speaker 3: lack of picnic knowledge for all it wasn't worth. He

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Speaker 3: responded to any inquiries or suggestions with questions and comments

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Speaker 3: such as, how do you do that? Or what did

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Speaker 3: you guys do in the past, or even help me

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Speaker 3: remember while we're talking about this. Ultimately, responsibility for the

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Speaker 3: picnic was reassigned mission unaccomplished, says mister Crawley. You'd be

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Speaker 3: amazed about how much I don't know about picnics. Strategic

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Speaker 3: incompetence isn't about having a strategy that fails, but a

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Speaker 3: failure that succeeds. It almost always works to deflect work

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Speaker 3: one doesn't want to do without ever having to admit it.

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Speaker 3: For junior staffers, it's just a way of a power

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Speaker 3: through powerlessness. For managers, it can reduce their status by

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Speaker 3: pretending to be incapable of lowly tasks. In all cases,

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Speaker 3: it's a ritualistic sharad. The only thing the person claiming

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Speaker 3: not to understand really doesn't understand that the victim, ultimately

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Speaker 3: stuck with the work, sees through the false incompetence.

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Speaker 1: This tactic starts in early youth with chores.

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Speaker 3: How do you open the dishwasher? It's puppy eyed helplessness

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Speaker 3: gets refined through homework with math work problems and book

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Speaker 3: reports on Beowulf. In college, it gets reinforced by enablers

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Speaker 3: who take better notes.

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Speaker 1: In class, and in a marriage it.

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Speaker 3: Works, but not as well by raising the spectrum disaster

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Speaker 3: from a task mishandled. If I do the wash, I

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Speaker 3: might shrink your sweater? And how do you change diapers

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Speaker 3: so they don't leak? At work, it can be institutionalized

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Speaker 3: at customer call centers, for example, whose operators will transfer

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Speaker 3: you to another department before the last department transfer you

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Speaker 3: back to them, and for a shady corporations and competence

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Speaker 3: is the best legal defense strategy for any employee. The

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Speaker 3: soul stealing complexity of office machinery such as fax machines, copiers, PCs, voicemail,

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Speaker 3: and even coffeemakers gives everyone ample cover to studiously never

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Speaker 3: learn how to use them. But the same blank stare

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Speaker 3: accompanies non mechanical tasks too. Clara Westler, an accountant who

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Speaker 3: used to work at a law firm, says, lawyers pretend

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Speaker 3: to be completely flummoxed by all of these machines, as

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Speaker 3: well as everything related to accounting except for billing. Their message.

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Speaker 3: I have so many lofty matters on my mind. I

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Speaker 3: can't be bothered with mastering these small tasks.

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Speaker 1: She says.

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Speaker 3: Rescuing the pseudo incompetent from an office task can mean

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Speaker 3: doing it for life. Failing to rescue risks this sting

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Speaker 3: of being a non team player. There's nothing worse than

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Speaker 3: doing too good a job on something that you don't

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Speaker 3: want to keep doing, says Carol Kimbler Meager. She once

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Speaker 3: worked with another manager of different departments who played up

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Speaker 3: the fact that he quote couldn't find his belly button

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Speaker 3: with both hands, a map and a flashlight. Each month

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Speaker 3: he started complaining that he couldn't close his books. Their

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Speaker 3: boss would beg her to help him, she said, the

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Speaker 3: following month, we could go through the whole thing again.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes being a team player means getting your own stuff

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Speaker 3: done so that other people can get their own work done.

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Speaker 3: Laziness and status issues aside. Tom Colbert, president of a

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Speaker 3: logistics provider, observes that found incompetence sometimes comes from a

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Speaker 3: genuine fear, not of looking stupid, but of proving it.

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Speaker 3: There's no reason to demonstrate it, he says, for someone

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Speaker 3: for whom no task is too small, suggests mister Colbert himself,

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Speaker 3: the fax machine and its labyrinth, the menu of options

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Speaker 3: are more troubled than their worth. It's a jungle. I'll

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Speaker 3: coerce someone else into performing the task of by faiding

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Speaker 3: ignorance or frustration.

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Speaker 1: That person is Mary Powell.

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Speaker 3: She reports that mister Colbert engages in a lot of shrugging, sighing,

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Speaker 3: and throwing up of the hands. He usually can figure

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Speaker 3: out most things without too much trouble, She says, this

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Speaker 3: one particular thing he doesn't want to take the time

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Speaker 3: to do. Strategic incompetence involves a lot of unnecessary posturing,

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Speaker 3: notes Robert Sutton, a professor of management science at Stanford University.

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Speaker 3: But it's not all bad. One way in which lower

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Speaker 3: status people feel more esteem in the presence of higher

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Speaker 3: status people is to show that they have a skill

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Speaker 3: that's valued and needed. He says, it can signify a

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Speaker 3: mutual respect found in other hierarchies.

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Speaker 1: He adds, I think of apes grooming. That's how the

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Speaker 1: article ends.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: One of the big themes behind this is that it's

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Speaker 3: the men who say how to do this, how to

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Speaker 3: use this, and it's the women coming behind going yeah,

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Speaker 3: I have to fix this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. One being I think it's really interesting, especially

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Speaker 2: when you talk about like men failing up a lot

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Speaker 2: of times it's men failing upwards, right, and sort of

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Speaker 2: this idea that the non value added task as I

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Speaker 2: think he referred to it, and a lot of those

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Speaker 2: tasks being things that are traditionally viewed as women's work,

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Speaker 2: whether it is like copies are cleaning that you're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about in our fiction portion, more like these

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Speaker 2: things that people don't get noticed for or rewarded for.

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Speaker 2: Or if you do, as it said, if you do

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Speaker 2: too good a job at this thing because you're a

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Speaker 2: team player and you want to be seen as really

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Speaker 2: efficient and good at your job, then it becomes your

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Speaker 2: job and you're not getting paid anymore for it, right.

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Speaker 2: It just sort of we're able to successfully pass it

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Speaker 2: off to you. And it's a weird way of trying

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Speaker 2: to compliment you, I guess, but really they're just manipulating

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Speaker 2: you into doing a thing. When I first started working

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Speaker 2: at this job, and at the time it was like

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Speaker 2: twenty eleven, it was owned by a different company, our

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Speaker 2: colleague Bin Bowling told me, in all seriousness, never be

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Speaker 2: too good at something or they're going to ask you

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Speaker 2: to do it forever. And I remember sitting there thinking like,

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Speaker 2: but I've been taught to do violent do well.

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Speaker 3: Well. This kind of comes back into the alignment of

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Speaker 3: women have to be one hundred and twenty percent sure

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Speaker 3: that they are experts and be the qualify one hundred

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Speaker 3: and twenty percent beyond uh what is actually being asked,

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Speaker 3: and men literally seventy percent qualified, like yeah, we'll do this.

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Speaker 3: But that's that whole rhetoric is like the men are

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Speaker 3: gonna be like, don't do good of a job, because

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Speaker 3: if you do, they're always going to ask you. And

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Speaker 3: then women are like, but we have to prove myself

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Speaker 3: or I'll never move up in the world. And even

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Speaker 3: if I do, I still won't move up in the world.

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Speaker 3: And the kind of like this article. I absolutely re

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Speaker 3: read it as sarcastic. I believe that's what the writer

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Speaker 3: was intending, because he definitely made a point to discuss

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Speaker 3: the unequal leveling in the workplace. Even the ending was

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Speaker 3: so condescending, grooming of monkeys grooming each other.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, coo cool cool.

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Speaker 3: And then it literally was like, huh huh, you're calling

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Speaker 3: this out. You're leaving it without any opinion. I mean,

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Speaker 3: his language is absolutely an opinion, but you know, like

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Speaker 3: you're not saying anything outright and then moving on. But

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Speaker 3: if you really truly look at what's happening, it does

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Speaker 3: feel like and we're going to talk about this in

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Speaker 3: our section in a minute about fiction, but this feels

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Speaker 3: like the beginning of a fiction of a sitcom. This

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Speaker 3: is the office as you as we were going to

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Speaker 3: talk about, like literally the setup of an office and

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Speaker 3: Michael being the most incompetent boss and Pam having to

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Speaker 3: fix everything for him, like the phone calls, but yet

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Speaker 3: he kind of proves himself over and over and over

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Speaker 3: again and she's trying to fix that. And then also

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Speaker 3: as of late, Pam being the bad guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I mean, maybe we should go ahead

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Speaker 2: and move into this fiction part we can we we love.

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Speaker 3: This article in but one more thing I did like

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Speaker 3: that they made sure to discuss about the parenting and

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Speaker 3: the family, this whole bit about the fact I don't

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Speaker 3: know how to change a diaper, which I have actually

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Speaker 3: heard I've actually heard that being used and not just

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Speaker 3: by men, I will say, teenagers, And that's rightly so.

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Speaker 3: But they also were like, oh, this is girls. I

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Speaker 3: don't want it right, Like, it's not that hard, it's.

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Speaker 2: Not that yeah. Yeah, my dad. My dad had many

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Speaker 2: a fine probably, but he he did a lot of

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Speaker 2: this stuff, like if he was left in charge of us.

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Speaker 2: I remember one time he tried to cook eggs, eggs,

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Speaker 2: burnt them, burnt them, and then he said to my

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Speaker 2: mom like, listen, we're gonna have to just get take

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Speaker 2: out anytime you're not here because I can't do it.

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Speaker 2: But I mean he could grill, which is the masculine area, right,

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Speaker 2: but nothing else outside of that. And then like, uh,

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Speaker 2: if I was sick, if I was throwing up, he

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Speaker 2: would freak out and be like, it's a crisis, where's yourma?

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Speaker 2: And he would like run literally run away. And then

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Speaker 2: if my mom went out. He would forget to put

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Speaker 2: us to bed, so she'd come home at like ten

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Speaker 2: pm and we were still awake and she'd be like,

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Speaker 2: why didn't you, Oh, I was just watching this. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. But he would often say those kinds of

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Speaker 2: things like I don't know how to do it. I

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Speaker 2: can do it, I can't learn it. I was just

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Speaker 2: kind of like a panic mode of like no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: no no, I can't do that right, And so she

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Speaker 2: would do it. It was she had to do it.

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Speaker 2: And she told me recently like she had to stop

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Speaker 2: going out as much because she can't trust he would

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Speaker 2: take care of it.

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Speaker 3: Like I can only think of a handful of times

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Speaker 3: that my dad stayed with us as well, and not

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Speaker 3: because he didn't want to necessarily.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the case, but my mother.

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Speaker 3: I think, absolutely felt guilty for being a way, which

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Speaker 3: is a different conversation in itself, but yeah, I absolutely

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Speaker 3: have seen that as well. And that's the same thing

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Speaker 3: with work for me. I absolutely would terrify of missing

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Speaker 3: work even till this day. Of course, what we do

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Speaker 3: is a little different, and we have each other and

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Speaker 3: our whole, our whole team as women, Thank God, and

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Speaker 3: they would pick up that slack and I love that,

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Speaker 3: And I've never really dealt with in my heart yet

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Speaker 3: of that type of inability to help someone. We have

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Speaker 3: a pretty good crew of people in our immediate group,

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Speaker 3: but like, I've definitely dealt with that in government, I've

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Speaker 3: definitely seen that as the higher ups. Who's doing what,

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Speaker 3: who's asking what? When we look at legal teams. I

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Speaker 3: have a friend who is pair legal who always get

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Speaker 3: the brunt of the load of things that that's not

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Speaker 3: even her job, but being asked to do that, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: what in a very Meldriven film where she was like

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Speaker 3: it was made up of a lot of people, but

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Speaker 3: you kind of like mmm, And there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: classism in this as well.

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Speaker 2: Sure that we can come back to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go ahead and jump into that whole office conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So one of the first things I think of

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Speaker 2: when we were talking about this, which of course I

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Speaker 2: have a lot of fiction examples and Samantha's got some too,

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Speaker 2: but is the office because it's kind of a prime

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Speaker 2: example of what we're talking about, where you do we

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Speaker 2: have this like ultimate and competent boss who should not

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Speaker 2: be in that position. So many times you should get fired.

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Speaker 2: And Pam as sort of, at least in the beginning,

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Speaker 2: in the sort of secretary position that is cleaning up

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Speaker 2: after him constantly. But there's one episode in particular where

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Speaker 2: Pam gets frustrated because the microwave is like constantly dirty

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Speaker 2: and she's always having to clean the microwave, so she

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Speaker 2: like leaves a note and then everyone's talking about how

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Speaker 2: she's being passive aggressive and like why can't she just

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Speaker 2: do it? And then she tries to explain to Andy.

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Speaker 2: She talks to Andy about it, I believe it's Andy,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, oh, no, I can't. I would just

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Speaker 2: make it worse. I would just mess it up. And

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Speaker 2: she's like, how would you make it worse? It's clean,

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Speaker 2: you just clean it. And he's like oh, and he's

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Speaker 2: like walking away quickly. I would just make it worse.

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Speaker 2: And that's kind of like what my dad would do,

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Speaker 2: Like that's the exact idea of like, oh, you do it,

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Speaker 2: you're really good at it. I would just mess it up,

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Speaker 2: basically saying I don't want to do this right, and

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Speaker 2: then her being seen as like nagging that sort of

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Speaker 2: nagging why can't she just do it?

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Speaker 3: Well, and that's one of the things that she says

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Speaker 3: is if I do it now right, then I'm going

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Speaker 3: to hold up the standard and I'll be expected to

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Speaker 3: do this from now on. And that's that conversation again, like, oh,

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Speaker 3: well you did it before, Why why wouldn't you just

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Speaker 3: go ahead and do it. I don't we're talking about that.

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Speaker 3: This is you know this, It just it makes no sense.

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Speaker 1: It makes us sense.

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Speaker 3: Again, As of late, I've seen a lot of rhetoric

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Speaker 3: that Pam was the bad guy, also that Jim was

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Speaker 3: a bad guy, and that's a whole different conversation in itself,

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Speaker 3: that Pam was a bad guy, and that she was

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Speaker 3: too nagging again, that she was condescending or rude and

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Speaker 3: all these things.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, was.

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Speaker 3: She No, it is just because you don't like women

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Speaker 3: who were just present, right and maybe calling you out

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Speaker 3: a little bit.

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Speaker 2: And she did have like she had an arc for

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Speaker 2: sure where she kind of went from meeker to not

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Speaker 2: as meek, right, but certainly like she was. I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: say she was nagging, even where she was trying to

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Speaker 2: get people to do basically take care of their own nonsense, right,

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Speaker 2: she was. I mean, that's another part where not really

390
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 2: discussing as she was managing Michael like she was. It

391
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 2: was a whole extra task she was doing that she

392
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 2: wasn't getting paid for or like noticed in right where

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00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 2: she was cleaning up after all of his messes and

394
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Speaker 2: expected to do that. Because she didn't, then the cold

395
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,160
Speaker 2: company would go under, right or are I either somehow

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Speaker 2: someone else would get in trouble, because that's the world

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Speaker 2: we live in. But yeah, I don't. I mean, it's

398
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Speaker 2: been a minute since I've watched it, but I don't

399
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Speaker 2: recall thinking she was in any way like.

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Speaker 3: The villain, right, I mean also in this conversation again,

401
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 3: this is kind of be a maybe a little more

402
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Speaker 3: classest than anything else. Like she and the new receptionists

403
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,640
Speaker 3: Aaron are both treated us really dumb. Don't get me wrong.

404
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 3: Annon's character are supposed to be a little more ditsy

405
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Speaker 3: trying to figure things out.

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Speaker 1: I get that arc.

407
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Speaker 3: But both of them, being the secretaries or PA's were

408
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Speaker 3: treated that way immediately, and so therefore they should be.

409
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Speaker 1: The ones that are doing the menial tasks and doing.

410
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Speaker 3: Like ridiculous things and be expected to like take some

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Speaker 3: of the abuse, and of course the sexual harassment.

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Speaker 1: The office has not aged. Well, we'll go with that

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Speaker 1: for sure, but I don't think.

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Speaker 3: Much has changed in that type of conversation and rhetoric

415
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 3: and in every day rhetoric in that we see a

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Speaker 3: lot of PA's being women.

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Speaker 1: It's gotten different.

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Speaker 3: We actually, when I was working at DJJ, I had

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Speaker 3: a PA and we had one dude.

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Speaker 1: That was it and he was awful, awful, like he

421
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Speaker 1: would just not show.

422
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Speaker 3: Up and we were like what the hell? And we

423
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 3: had a pretty easy like hey, we understand, this work

424
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 3: is really just menial, Like you're taking notes, you're doing emails,

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Speaker 3: and you're doing like shredding papers because we had a

426
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 3: lot of sensitive information on paper, like this has to

427
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 3: be shredded, this has to be properly destroyed. Can you

428
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 3: do these things for us? And it's really menial tests

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Speaker 3: I get that.

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Speaker 1: I get that.

431
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Speaker 3: However, if it's that menial, it shouldn't be that hard.

432
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Speaker 3: And for him it was super hard. Showing up was

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Speaker 3: super hard, and I was like, Okay, starting to know

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Speaker 3: why it's mainly women who can do this type of

435
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,479
Speaker 3: labor because they are organized and consistent enough to do so.

436
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 1: And I don't have to harp.

437
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: Right, and also like going back to what you said,

438
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,239
Speaker 2: which I think is a good point that women feel, oh,

439
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to get fired if I don't do like

440
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 2: above and beyond or these expectations that we might have

441
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 2: been socialized to think is where we need to go,

442
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 2: Like the norm is actually higher than what is expected,

443
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 2: But like that pressure, because I definitely, looking back at

444
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 2: my career, I've had a few instances of what I

445
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: would call benign examples of this where people were like,

446
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 2: you're so good at doing this, can you help me? Yeah,

447
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,479
Speaker 2: And I really don't think it was a manipulation tactic.

448
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 2: I think they could have done it and they were like,

449
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 2: she's good at it, maybe I can get her to

450
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 2: do it. I don't know, but I did. I was

451
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: thinking about this other day and I remember just so

452
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 2: clearly feeling, like we've talked about this recently, like I

453
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 2: could be fired if I don't do right perfectly. I

454
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: got to do so well, and so I think that

455
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 2: that is a really important part of this conversation, and

456
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 2: also that yeah, to the point of in the office,

457
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 2: I also feel like the receptionist character is often totally

458
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 2: dismissed or kind of seen as invisible and just somebody

459
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 2: who has to do the thing that you don't want

460
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 2: to do. Just not treated very respectfully, right, not being.

461
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: Asked, not being thanked, like all of those things.

462
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 3: And I didn't want to go back to because this

463
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 3: is the same article about missus Meeker who talked about

464
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 3: her boss being ridiculous, and she's saying sometimes being a

465
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: team player I means getting your own stuff done so

466
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 3: that other people can get their own work done.

467
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: And I thought it, like, yeah, you're literally holding back people.

468
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 3: This is that whole like also that team building or

469
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 3: like group projects, when you have that one person who

470
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 3: doesn't want to hold up the end of the deal,

471
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 3: so therefore you're doing their work for them because it

472
00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 3: affects everyone, but it doesn't matter because they don't care.

473
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 3: And they also again most likely someone in their group

474
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 3: will do it for them because this affects.

475
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 2: All of them, right, and they are confident that they

476
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: will not be the one that gets blamed for it, right,

477
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: or that they can talk their way out of it, right.

478
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 3: And just leave it alone, or maybe no one will

479
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 3: make a big deal and just do it, you know how.

480
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: I am I can't do this and this and this

481
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 3: and this, although I think if she's that with you,

482
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 3: when I'm like, I don't prioritize getting my money back,

483
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: can you do it so one of us can get

484
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: paid things.

485
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 2: Well? And I also want to talk about this is

486
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 2: something I have mentioned in several podcasts that I've wanted

487
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 2: to talk about. We're going to get into it more

488
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 2: in a minute, but I think not only is this happening,

489
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 2: but we're glorifying it and men like it's funny and cute, like, oh,

490
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: silly him, he can't do it, so all like the

491
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 2: wife in this case, I'll take care of it. He

492
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 2: needs me. Like we've made it into something that is,

493
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 2: like you said, a plot of a sitcom where it's

494
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 2: funny and we like these male characters that can't do

495
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 2: anything and we like laughing at them. I don't think

496
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: there's anything necessarily wrong with that, but it's that we're

497
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: making them the hero and the woman the nagging villain, right.

498
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: Right, It's true.

499
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 3: And going back to that TikTok phenomenon, apparently like millions,

500
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 3: there's millions of people looking at the tag weaponized and competence.

501
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 3: There's been so many posts and you know, this pandemic

502
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 3: has shown the real uh, unequal bits of what is happening.

503
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 3: Who's taking on a chunk of the responsibility. And you know,

504
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 3: it's about trust, like just about being able to get

505
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 3: support and being able to lean on someone to get

506
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 3: that support to get things.

507
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: Done and not breaking down.

508
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 3: And yeah, like you said, it is often villainized in movies,

509
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 3: and I feel that both of these cinemas are seen

510
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 3: in Missus Doubtfire, which is while I was like, any,

511
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 3: you have to go watch this before we start, So

512
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 3: can you please tell me you've watched this?

513
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did watch it. It was my first time.

514
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: I've never seen it. I'd heard of it, I knew

515
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 2: of its existence.

516
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 3: So it was made in nineteen ninety three. I need

517
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 3: to hear a synopsis from you as well as a review.

518
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: Oh, Lord of buzz I was giving you assignments.

519
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: H you are okay. So it stars Robin Williams as

520
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: the dad in this case, the strategic and competent person

521
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: who is an actor like a voice actor, child actor,

522
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: and Sally Field is his She she's business oh Jason,

523
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: She's high up business person, and he is sort of

524
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 2: the fun dad who never does the stuff that they

525
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: need to do to take care of their two three children,

526
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: three children, and so finally one day sally Field comes

527
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: home and it's like, I can't do this anymore. I

528
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: want a divorce and he's all like, no, you can't

529
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: do I need my children in my life, and she

530
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 2: says no, He's allowed visitation like on weekends and stuff,

531
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: but she also doesn't like what he's doing there because

532
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: his apartment's not great, and then the food he provides

533
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: isn't good. So she reveals she's going to get a

534
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 2: housekeeper and he asks if it can be him, and

535
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 2: she says now, So he of course stresses as an

536
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 2: elderly British woman named Missus Doubtfire. Oh yes, and gets

537
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: the job and part because he like knows the family,

538
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: I think. But anyway, the kids love Missus Doubtfire after

539
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: a tense start, and then Sally Field's character goes to

540
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 2: love Missus Doubtfire And also you see him really struggling

541
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: with like he has to learn how to cook and

542
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 2: he has to learn how to clean and all this

543
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: stuff he's been like putting off forever. And then Pierce

544
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 2: Browson enters the picture and is trying to date Sally Field,

545
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: and then why is this Missus Doubtfire, Robin Williams character

546
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: not Missus Stutfire, gets an opportunity at a TV station

547
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: for a children's show. It all comes to a head.

548
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 2: We find out the whole everyone finds out Missus Doubtfire

549
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 2: is in fact not Missus d I Robin Williams, but

550
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: he gets this show as Missus stuff Fire, and then

551
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: I guess they decide that he can work and take

552
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: care of the children at the end and maybe they'll

553
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 2: make amends. Was that a good good?

554
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: I liked it really good? So what do you think

555
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: about it?

556
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 2: I it was different than I thought because I had

557
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: heard a lot about it, and I was just kind

558
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 2: of still shocked at it. So I'm not sure how

559
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 2: well it's aged either, but you know, it was enjoyable.

560
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 2: I was annoyed at how since we are talking about

561
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 2: this and I was looking at it through that lens.

562
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 2: I was annoyed at how much like Robin Williams's character

563
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: does the like you're taking my kids from me and

564
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 2: cry and cry, and she's the bitch the villain who's

565
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: like not giving in to his his scenes of emotion,

566
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: and the kids are against her for a long time,

567
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: and he's against her, and so it did feel very

568
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: like he seemed to not be pulling his weight at all.

569
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: And then when she's like, well, you've gotta do what,

570
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: you gotta help me, and he didn't didn't really and

571
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: he was the fun dad and she was the bad

572
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: evil mom and I didn't. Yeah, I didn't like that.

573
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: She kad gives that whole speech.

574
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 3: Yeah's the way because of Sally Fields, who was icon,

575
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: you know, and she just delivers that speech in the

576
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: heated way it is.

577
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: She's not wrong, she's not wrong on what she's saying.

578
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: Right, it was. It was weird because to me when

579
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: I watched it, I was, I guess I was, you know,

580
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 2: on her side, or at least I saw her point

581
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: of it. I wasn't at mas at her, but it

582
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: was definitely painting it like she's the one breaking up

583
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: this family. She's the one that won't let them be

584
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: happy together even though that's what the kids want, what

585
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: he wants. She is the villain Foreshore and now she's

586
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: dating Pierce Brosen and she's putting her work like in

587
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: a high place, so definitely bad. She hires a housekeeper,

588
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: she's not with her kids like it was definitely pointing

589
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: the finger at her as the bad mom and villain

590
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 2: of this, right when really it seems like she's just

591
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 2: trying to be the good mom and take care of

592
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: children and all that make money.

593
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 3: Right, And you know, thinking about it, Santa Claus, did

594
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 3: you ever see that, Yes, the same thing.

595
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: The grandmother is the evil mother who is trying to

596
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: keep her son away.

597
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 3: To be fair, the sons like, I don't want to

598
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 3: go over there because my dad's lacking so many things,

599
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. I also want to go ahead, because

600
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 3: I was looking at IMDb, I was like, I just

601
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 3: want to make sure we got all the characters, because

602
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: you know, we had to get all that right. But

603
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 3: oh my god, these plot summaries that the reviewers put in,

604
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: let me go ahead, just read a line from each one.

605
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: This one starts off with eccentric actor Daniel Hillard is

606
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 3: an amusing, caring father, so that's how that goes, and

607
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: he talks about how he's trying to get himself together

608
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: to see his children. His wife, Miranda, draws a line

609
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: and files for divorce. He can only see his children

610
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 3: once a week and doesn't sit well with him. He

611
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 3: also holds a job at a TV studio, like all

612
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: these things that you're like this obviously, yeah, you read

613
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: into that. And the last line is and he must

614
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 3: also deal with Miranda's new boyfriend, Studunmeyer.

615
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, that's an interesting way in that.

616
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: And then this one says, troubled that he has little

617
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 3: access to his children. Divorced, Daniel Hillard hatches an elaborate

618
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 3: plan and then they go want and to explain what

619
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: it is. But it's like, hmm, that's an interesting way

620
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 3: to say that. And then this one, how far would

621
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: an ordinary father go to spend more time with his children?

622
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: Well, okay, okay.

623
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 3: And then this longer line also starts with Daniel Hillard

624
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 3: is a voice actor living in San Francisco, California. Though

625
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 3: a devoted, loving, and well meaning father to his three children,

626
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: Daniel is a poor disciplinarian and his wife considers him unreliable.

627
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well so that's what I wrote some key things, Sam,

628
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: and I was watching it and I think, one, it's

629
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: interesting to me, and I'm glad he brought up the

630
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: Santa Claus because i think every Christmas movie ever has

631
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: this plot. But like, it's interesting to me that he's all,

632
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: I want to spend more time with my kids, but

633
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: he wasn't really outside of like being goofy dad every

634
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: now and then, he wasn't really spending that much time

635
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: with him anyway. It's ironic to me that he had

636
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: to pretend to be a woman to take some responsibility

637
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: and that's when he's first is like oh cleaning and

638
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: cooking and yeah, like he has this whole like tearful

639
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: line I need to be with my children, but he

640
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: really wasn't taking responsibility for their raising. And yeah, just

641
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: because he is the hero of this story, right again,

642
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: it goes back to what I was saying, where we've

643
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: really painted this into I don't like again, yeah, this

644
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: goofy well meaning like you know, oh he tries his best,

645
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: but does he though, because clearly he did.

646
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,719
Speaker 1: It did so we know that.

647
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: It begins with the disastrous birthday party, which the neighbors

648
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 3: call Miranda to come home and fix up because he

649
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 3: wasn't listening to the neighbors. Which there's one thing to

650
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 3: be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, neighbors are annoying. However, in

651
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 3: this instance of having live animals roaming up and down

652
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 3: your street and you don't know what's happening at three pm.

653
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: There's some questions.

654
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: There's some questions him putting a job without talking to

655
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 3: his wife and not even leading up to something, and

656
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 3: the fact that she is the primary breadwinner in this

657
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 3: scenario as well, And yeah, they paint that as a

658
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 3: bad thing when I'm like, yeah, but he just quit

659
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 3: his job, like no one saw that. Who's going to

660
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 3: be the one taken care of? So she's going to

661
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 3: do both? Y'all are mad that she's going both? Okay,

662
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: moving on. And then also his redeeming arc because he's

663
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: already sympathetic to begin with, is that she finally has

664
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 3: a moment to confide in him and he's finally listening

665
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 3: instead of being defensive and argumentative. He could only do

666
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: that dress as a woman.

667
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, I thought that too, And I was thinking, like,

668
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: I guess I could make an argument that this was

669
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: a commentary on on a gender dynamic. Yeah, in a

670
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: heterosis relationship we already know exist, But it's weird that

671
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: it's so like accepted that this is the way it is.

672
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: Right, Don't get me wrong, I really love this comedy.

673
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: This is one of my dad's favorite movies and he

674
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 3: used to do these lines and it was hilarious and

675
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 3: I still remember these iconic lines.

676
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: Robin Williams.

677
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 3: I loved him, and I am so grateful that he

678
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 3: was that good of a human that I don't have

679
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: to backtrack and say he's not a great person. We

680
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 3: know these things about him, very grateful for that, and

681
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 3: we know that he was a kind person, and this

682
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 3: pretty much fell into his kind of fault. Chris Columbus

683
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 3: is the one who directed this, and we know him

684
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 3: from Hiy Putter for me anyway, But like all of

685
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: these things, it's like, yeah, it's absolutely a stereotype.

686
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: And it took a.

687
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 3: While before really people had a moment of like, yeah, yeah,

688
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 3: this is not the best commentary on relationships and here's why.

689
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 3: And even still people would be like, feminists are being

690
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 3: over the top. It's just a good movie. Calm the

691
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 3: down type of commentator. But you're like, yeah, but this

692
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 3: does needs to be a conversation about why this is

693
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 3: the problem, why we need to have several talks about

694
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 3: what this is and how women are portrayed in media.

695
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 3: You've got one of the best actresses in the world

696
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 3: playing this awful character with some of the cutest.

697
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: Kids Mara Wilson in the movie.

698
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 3: You know all of those things, but we need to

699
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 3: unravel some of this conversation of like why is this

700
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 3: so accepted and why is this the only way we

701
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: can take any true commentary into point And this We've

702
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: already gone through Kanye, so I'm not going to bring

703
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 3: it up too much more. Except this is kind of

704
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 3: that example of I'm a father, they're keeping my children

705
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 3: away from me and demonizing the parent when they're like, no,

706
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: you need to look around at your own attitude, what

707
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: you are doing in your actions and how Yeah, this

708
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 3: is not about keeping a child away for the father

709
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 3: is about having you get yourself together so you can

710
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 3: be a good father.

711
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: Yes, I was thinking about, like I said, all these

712
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 2: Christmas movies have this plot of like the dad's not

713
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 2: that he's always working for Christmas and then he doesn't

714
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 2: get the toy and he forgot even though his wife

715
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 2: has been telling him forever to get the toy. I'm

716
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: talking about it all the way, but yeah, it happens

717
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: a lot in all the movies, and she is seen

718
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: as like the nagging person. He's the hero at the

719
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: end just because he finally realizes like, oh, I have

720
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: a family and I'm here on Christmas, and I can't

721
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 2: help but feel like this is like male writers writing

722
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 2: these stories either to redeem themselves or their own father's

723
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: I'm psycho analyzing email, right, I'm sorry, are the women

724
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: do it? Maybe write some of this stuff to excuse

725
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 2: all the work they do versus what their husbands do.

726
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: And we haven't even gotten into the sitcom wife yet,

727
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: which is the big piece of this conversation, especially for

728
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 2: me who I watched a lot of these growing up,

729
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: and so many of those sitcoms, especially of like a

730
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: certain time when I was watching them in like the

731
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 2: nineties early two thousands, were the husband and wife, and

732
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 2: the wife was seen as the villain who was stopping

733
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,439
Speaker 2: him from having fun. She used the nagging housewife who

734
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: was never happy, always yelling at him. And also like

735
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: this is a separate conversation, but she was like banging

736
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: and he was not really right. And I hate to

737
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 2: make things about looks, and I actually have a whole

738
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 2: thought process that I want to come back in a

739
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: future episode about it, but just it's it made me

740
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 2: so mad, Like every time I'm like, why is she?

741
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 2: Why is the sitcom wife always like this, and we're

742
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 2: always laughing at like the antics right of the husband

743
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 2: and the main character in this who is like not

744
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 2: helping her out around the house or with the kids

745
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 2: and is messing up at work and forgets all this stuff.

746
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: And then we laugh and laugh and then when she

747
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: comes on, we're like, oh, no, the fun is ruined.

748
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, literally, that's exactly right. They're like, oh no, she

749
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 3: took all the fun out of the room. You're like,

750
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: why could she ask you to clean? Why because she

751
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 3: told me to go to bed? Why because she said

752
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,439
Speaker 3: dinner it's ready? Can you please come on? I could

753
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 3: ask some dinner come on. It's hilarious and not just

754
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 3: with like the really hot wives, but the majority of

755
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 3: the time they are half the age of the men.

756
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: And as the men are the comedians grow older and older.

757
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 1: Do your wife stay the same age?

758
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 3: And you're like, this is not realistic and apparently having

759
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 3: that flip is kind of offensive according to our society.

760
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 3: Like it's just it's quite funny because most of the

761
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 3: things that we see with women centric comedies is that

762
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 3: they're either single, they're with other women, or they're divorced

763
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 3: or widowed, like it's like they're trying to find themselves

764
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 3: as new you know, like those are the again hmmm.

765
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, perhaps separate easily we're kind of working on. But

766
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 2: I have noticed things like that too, and I actually am.

767
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: I mean there's a very there's a dark side of that, right,

768
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 2: and very sad part. But I've been excited to see

769
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: a lot of movies lately that I've been watching at

770
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 2: least that are very much about the power of female

771
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 2: friendship and supporting each other. That makes me happy. But

772
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 2: it is kind of like, well, did we have to

773
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: do this because the gender dynamic is so bad we

774
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 2: can't right, Yeah, And you know, we're watching this stuff

775
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: as children, and that's informing how we think households work,

776
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 2: and perhaps we're seeing it in our real lives and

777
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: that's informing how we think these relationships work and what's

778
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 2: acceptable and what's not acceptable. So we're really taking in

779
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: these messages right at a young age.

780
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 3: I mean, it has everything to like we're being told

781
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 3: as women that wouldn't you become a wife a mother,

782
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: You are a caretaker to the entire family. And when

783
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 3: we talk about matriarch kind of bad is that women

784
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 3: are taking care of the household. And then when we

785
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 3: say patriarch, we're talking about them being the discipline area

786
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 3: or the lead or the head, and it's like, even

787
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: that seems sexist when we put that in terms.

788
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, And it is always presented. I mean,

789
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 2: we've talked about this and so many things. But it's

790
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 2: again another damned if you do, damned if you don't,

791
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: because you have to take care of the kids, and

792
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 2: if you don't, then you're like a cold bitch. And

793
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 2: if you don't, like, if you work too much, then

794
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: what's wrong with you? You should be home with the kids.

795
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 2: But it's also like a weird space where you have

796
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 2: to work too right, it doesn't make sense. It's infuriating,

797
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: and it's just almost always like, well, we're blaming the

798
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: woman in this instance.

799
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: And I find that interesting.

800
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 3: They make sure to have the women really dislikable, and

801
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 3: it's not the fact that there's any redeeming quality.

802
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: You just don't like them because they are all these

803
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: things that you see in your.

804
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: Very strict mother or a very strict person in your life,

805
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: and typically again our mothers in this in this type.

806
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 3: But then if the dude is a dick, it's just

807
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: funny ha ha.

808
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and also like I want to come back

809
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 2: to that in a second. But also I promise you

810
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: most women don't want to quote bag, right, we don't

811
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 2: want to ask you to do these things, like I

812
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: dread it, Yeah, because I know that's how you're gonna

813
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: view me.

814
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 3: Yep, I'll just like I'll ask you one exactly, I'll

815
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 3: ask you twice that I'm done. And that's again the

816
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 3: same thing as weaponized and competence exactly. Think I don't

817
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 3: have to deal with that as much, but I've seen it.

818
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 3: I've seen it in work places, I've seen it in

819
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 3: like all of that.

820
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so that's that's a big part of this too.

821
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: Like we we really don't want to I mean, who

822
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 2: would want to do that? Right? A certain number of people, yes,

823
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: but most people don't want to have to like take

824
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 2: on this task, I don't think.

825
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of energy.

826
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: It does, exactly. It's another thing we're doing and we're

827
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 2: not getting paid for or recognized or other than you're

828
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 2: being a bitch stop bother right right, Yes, So I'm

829
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 2: not going to go into this too much. I think

830
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 2: we should come back in a future episode I've mentioned

831
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: it a lot and I have a happy hour about

832
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 2: it coming up. But kind of related to this's what

833
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: I was talking about earlier, which is something I call

834
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: the glorification of the ass, which is kind of a

835
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 2: similar idea where we're laughing at the bumbling sitcom husband

836
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: and we're like, oh, yeah, well he's funny and putting

837
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: them in sort of the hero pedestal. And I think

838
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 2: lately we've seen kind of something related, which is the

839
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 2: anti hero who's usually a jerk and sarcassic and rude

840
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: is the hero and we're behind this person, right. So

841
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: I've seen it in Star Wars, I've seen it in Marvel,

842
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: Like I have a whole thing about Iron Man, who

843
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 2: I think is an interesting character. I just think, oh, praps,

844
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: we should exactly perhaps we should not be He's like

845
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 2: a lot of people's favorites, and I get I don't

846
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 2: play he's funny and he's interesting, but we should step

847
00:42:58,360 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: back and be like, Okay.

848
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 3: I Pepper Potts had to take over the company because

849
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 3: he was getting like too sidetracked. Don't get me wrong,

850
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 3: I know he's inventing things and helping the world, but

851
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: he also claimed that for himself and was very proud

852
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 3: of it and took all the claim, even that whole

853
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 3: like beginning of Avengers where he's doing the whole clean

854
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 3: energy stuff and he's like, give yourself some credit and

855
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 3: give yourself like thirty percent. I can't remember the line,

856
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 3: but it's very significantly less. And she's like what right?

857
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 2: What right? Which, yeah, which again I get is supposed

858
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 2: to be funny, but it's also like why it's funny though,

859
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 2: because yeah, and he has he has a lot of

860
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: instances where I'm like, like.

861
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: He brought her strawberries and she's allergic. The only that's

862
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: the one thing, really, dude, you're trying to kill.

863
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, cold, And again there's like a it's painted as

864
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: a quirk and he's busy and all this stuff.

865
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: Sure you don't care about.

866
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's there's a lot and I know there's like

867
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: conflict and there's a lot of stuff we could talk about,

868
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 2: but I do want to mention that, and I want

869
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 2: to mention when I said Survival Horror is another episode

870
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 2: you could listen to that sort of related to this is.

871
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: I think we're a lot more forgiving of men and

872
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: their flaws, especially white men and their flaws and their

873
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: trauma as compared to anyone else. So like a character

874
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 2: like Kyla Urn, for instance, we're like so ready to

875
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: explain his backstory and we're so ready to be like,

876
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 2: but he's tragic and sad, and oh, you can't be

877
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: mad at him because he has all this. We don't

878
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 2: do that for a lot of women or people of color,

879
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 2: like we're just like, no, I don't like her or

880
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 2: whatever it is, moving on exactly exactly. We don't give

881
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: them this side of fan work of but he's so

882
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 2: let me take care of him. He's so sad. And

883
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: that's sort of a different conversation, but it's related to this,

884
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 2: I think, where we're really ready to explain away men's flaws, right,

885
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: particularly white men's flaws. And then there's a whole conversation

886
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: with like Boba Feed and the Mandalorian and the anti

887
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: hero and why we're like so ready to forgive and like,

888
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 2: but they're so good at their job. And somebody posted

889
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: a list and was like are they though? And I

890
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 2: was like, this is what I'm talking about, And again,

891
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with liking those characters. I think we

892
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 2: should just be clear on like the stories We've been

893
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: told so often about what a hero is and what

894
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 2: is somebody we're celebrating and why right and versus who

895
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: are we like condemning and why yes? And this is

896
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: like we've been talking a lot about fiction, but as

897
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 2: you started off this conversation, Samantha, this does have real

898
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 2: world consequences and like it's a way huger conversation than

899
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: we're going to get into right now. But I think

900
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: things like Donald Trump is part of this, Like this

901
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: this has real world impacts that are huge.

902
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 3: I mean, we could look at what's happening with Russia

903
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 3: and Putin and yes we've had issues. I'm not putting

904
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 3: it sorely on Donald Trump, but this huge rhetoric of

905
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 3: all of a sudden painting Russia as a hero, which

906
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 3: did not happen until Trump. Honestly, like Cold War, is

907
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 3: still fresh in most people's minds. Even if you didn't

908
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 3: live through it, you still kind of know about it

909
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 3: because there's been a lot of like end of times

910
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 3: for the US has had a lot to do.

911
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 1: With like Russia.

912
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 3: We know this, but like yeah, like stuff like that

913
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 3: where you have this like but he wasn't being serious

914
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 3: and having to backtrack, right, but he he was like

915
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 3: he was. There's a lot of confus theories and maybe

916
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: not so conspiracy theories about like what did we promise? Hello,

917
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 3: look at what just happened with Ukraine and hello, look

918
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 3: what he did during the election, just the recent elections

919
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 3: in trying to strong arm the Ukrainian government, uh with

920
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 3: trying to win his own election, Like, there's so many

921
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 3: things to that his all this excuse that we give

922
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 3: to men kevanaugh there were boys. I got when my

923
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 3: mother said that to me, and she's like, he was young.

924
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: I was like, he was thirties. No, No, he was

925
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: an adult. I don't understand this.

926
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: He was young. Let's stop.

927
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: And that's that same level of incompetence that he's like,

928
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 3: do you really think.

929
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: That he didn't know?

930
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: Again, it says it in that article about is that

931
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 3: it becomes a great defense strategy and it has, it's worked,

932
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 3: and it's become absurd. We're looking at some of the

933
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 3: recent campaigning Marjorie Taylor Green, which we haven't talked about

934
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 3: because I'm like, I don't want to give her much

935
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 3: air in general. I know we can't ignore her, but

936
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 3: I don't want to acknowledge her either her recent like, oh,

937
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 3: I didn't know it was a white supremacist.

938
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: I didn't realize this was a whole thing. I just

939
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: went to talk.

940
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 3: About my stuff, like, no, you can't blame that on

941
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 3: your ignorance. Let's let's really be honest. Same thing with CRT,

942
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 3: same thing with so many other things. I think there

943
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 3: was a huge conversation on TikTok once again about Mount

944
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 3: Rushmore and how really bad it is and how they

945
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 3: literally took over the land from Indigenous people who've been

946
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 3: white men on it.

947
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: That we idolize way too much. Let's just keep it

948
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: to that point.

949
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 3: But there's a lot of that to that point, and

950
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 3: like people will be like, well, we need know why.

951
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, this is what you should learn. Same

952
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 3: thing as plantations. When people are like, oh, I didn't

953
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 3: know it was a plantation. Well I thought they changed

954
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 3: it burned, bitch, No, you knew, or you could have

955
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 3: looked it up. It's not hard. It's not hard, right,

956
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 3: And this whole level of like how this goes and

957
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 3: stretches over all of society is not just men, it's

958
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 3: not just in marriages, it's not just that workplace, but overall,

959
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 3: how harmful this rhetoric is, and why education is so

960
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 3: important that's a whole different thing, and taking on responsibility

961
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 3: and just being a good damn human. Let's just be there.

962
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 1: It does.

963
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I love it. We've touched on a lot, Like

964
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: I know that there's so much we touched on that

965
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 2: is bigger than what we discussed today, and I'm sure

966
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 2: we'll come back and talk about that. But yeah, clearly

967
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on with this conversation and its

968
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 2: impacts and the damage that it can do and has done.

969
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know.

970
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 1: So much.

971
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 2: I do like a lot of the fiction I mentioned.

972
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, be critical of the messages you're receiving

973
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 2: over and over.

974
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 3: Be willing to have the conversation of yeah, this was problematic.

975
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 3: We've talked about this as we're trying to pick out

976
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 3: books and movies the feature. We want it all to

977
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 3: be highlighting and very happy, because oftentimes topics I pick

978
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 3: specifically are really sad and negative, so we try to

979
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 3: do that on an opposite end. But at this point,

980
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 3: you know, you just have to acknowledge I love this

981
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 3: at once upon a time, but yes, this is problematic,

982
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 3: and we need to talk about why instead of ignoring it.

983
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, well that's part of the reason we're here,

984
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 2: but in a fun ways.

985
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: A fun way, in.

986
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: A fun way. Not here to make anybody feel guilty

987
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 2: generally not you good listeners. No, yeah, we love you well.

988
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for going on this journey with us. Yes, yeah,

989
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 2: it's been a long time. I'm coming and like I said,

990
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: we got some follow ups on this one. But in

991
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: the meantime, if you have any thoughts about this, if

992
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 2: you have any suggestions, please let us know. You can

993
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 2: email us a stuff vidia mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

994
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts

995
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: or on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks

996
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 2: it's always to our producer Christina, thank you and thanks

997
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 2: to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told Uspects of

998
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visits the iHeart

999
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 2: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or where you listen to your

1000
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 2: favorite show.