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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph

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Speaker 1: Channel one two. She was found frozen, mutilated, her face

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Speaker 1: covered in maggots. She a beloved teacher, a nun. Of course,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about Cathy, says nic Sister Cathy. To this day,

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Speaker 1: her murder unsolved, questions echoing did the Catholic Church cover

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Speaker 1: up this horrific crime on a beautiful young nune? But

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Speaker 1: more important, who murdered sister Kathy? I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 1: is crime stories and I want answers. Sister Kathy was

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Speaker 1: reported missing when she did not return home to her

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Speaker 1: apartment one evening, the apartment she shared with another nun.

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Speaker 1: She had gone out to buy a gift, as I recall,

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Speaker 1: a wedding gift her sister was getting married. It was

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Speaker 1: Christmas time, everybody was shopping. It was leading up to

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Speaker 1: Christmas anyways, towards the end of November, and it was busy.

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Speaker 1: She went to a local shopping center. And the thing

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Speaker 1: that I know for sure is she went to one

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Speaker 1: of her favorite bakeries. And I believe she made it

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Speaker 1: to the bakery and came out of the bakery and

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Speaker 1: got in her car because a fresh buns. We're still

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Speaker 1: sitting on the seat, the passenger seat up front in

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Speaker 1: her car when her car was finally located, Kathy says

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Speaker 1: nick sister. Katherine says, Nick was beautiful, popular, twenty six

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Speaker 1: year old young nun who had taught at an all

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Speaker 1: girls Catholic school in Baltimore, last seen by her roommate,

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Speaker 1: another young nun, when she took off that evening after

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Speaker 1: she got home November seven, Friday night now Friday night.

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Speaker 1: As I recall with me Jimma Hoskins on the story

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Speaker 1: Shane Waters, private investigator and podcaster, Karen Stark, renowned at

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Speaker 1: New York psychologist and Crime Stories investigative reporter John Limley

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Speaker 1: to Jimma Hoskins, I'm so happy to have you with

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Speaker 1: us as we try to put the pieces together of

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Speaker 1: this puzzle. Um, I'm trying not to thank a sister

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Speaker 1: Kathy being found in that field, her body frozen and

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Speaker 1: mutilated and her face covered in maggots. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: focus on the night she goes missing. There was a

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Speaker 1: bi monthly ritual where both the girls, both the ladies

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Speaker 1: would get their checks and they would go deposited. And

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Speaker 1: they had gotten their checks that day. I believe the

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Speaker 1: checks were deposited by sister Kathy before she went shopping

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Speaker 1: at the bakery. What what to tell me? You're piecing

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Speaker 1: together the timeline, Jimma Hoskins. Well, thanking Nancy by the

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Speaker 1: way for having me on your program. This is an

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Speaker 1: opportunity for us to keep the attention on the story

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Speaker 1: because it's still a cold case. Our understanding that Kathy

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Speaker 1: came home from school and she had talked to a

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Speaker 1: student that afternoon about going shopping for her sister because

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Speaker 1: her sister, Marilyn was getting married. She was very excited

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Speaker 1: about that. So, as far as we know, she went

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Speaker 1: out probably around seven to seven thirty after having dinner.

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Speaker 1: Um sister Russell was still at the apartment. Cathy traveled

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Speaker 1: not very far and maybe ten minutes to a local

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Speaker 1: shopping center in Baltimore. She did deposit her check. We

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Speaker 1: do know that the money was in the bank, and

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Speaker 1: the receipt for that deposit is in you know, the

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Speaker 1: police have that. We do know that she bought the buns. Now,

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Speaker 1: the bakery was inside a large department store and it

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Speaker 1: was very popular. It had a number of chains around Baltimore.

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Speaker 1: It was named Muley's. And for folks who have seen

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Speaker 1: the Keepers, they will remember that that box of buns

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Speaker 1: was actually on the floor of the passenger seat, and

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Speaker 1: the trash can on the hump, the little the little

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Speaker 1: bucket that we all used to how having her cars

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Speaker 1: was also knocked over to the passenger side, and those

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Speaker 1: crime scene photos are actually in the keepers. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: if I speculate, then everybody in the world will say, well,

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Speaker 1: Gemma knows what happened, And Gemma doesn't know what happened,

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Speaker 1: but I do believe that someone accosted her in the

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Speaker 1: car and possibly forced her over to the passenger seat.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that, but that's what I'm assuming. Well,

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Speaker 1: and it could have been in any way Jemma Hoskins,

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Speaker 1: because we know she cast a two check just before

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Speaker 1: she disappears. It was a routine trip. Either sister Kathy

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Speaker 1: or her roommate made the trip to the bank every

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Speaker 1: other Friday with their paychecks from the city school system.

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Speaker 1: That bakery box was on you're saying, not the front

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Speaker 1: car seat, as I had found, but on the floorboard

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Speaker 1: of the front car seat. And that's significant. It was

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Speaker 1: on the floor. That's significant because you know what it

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Speaker 1: says to me. If it were me and our driving

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to eat something from the bakery, which

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Speaker 1: has happened way too many times, I would have it

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Speaker 1: sitting on the seat, the passenger seat, so I could

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Speaker 1: reach over and get it, not the floorboard. So why

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Speaker 1: did she put it in the floorboard? It actually was

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Speaker 1: still wrapped up. You can see the box. It's tied

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Speaker 1: with cord in both directions. It's not mashed. It's it's

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Speaker 1: you know, intact, and it is on the floor of

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Speaker 1: the passenger side. And that was from hect right H

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Speaker 1: E C H T s um. There was a bakery,

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Speaker 1: Mully's Bakery, within Hex department store, so I believe someone

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Speaker 1: actually saw her there. But we don't need an eyewitness

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Speaker 1: because we know she made it that far. Now Hex Bakery,

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Speaker 1: Muley's Bakery was someone There was someone there following her

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Speaker 1: after she cast her check. Did she ever make it

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Speaker 1: to buy? I didn't she buy a necklace? Is that

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Speaker 1: what she bought for the sister? Well that's what we've assumed.

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Speaker 1: Now in the past year, we have indications that she

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Speaker 1: may not have bought anything. Um. The the police have

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Speaker 1: an interview with someone at the bridal registry and the

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Speaker 1: Heck Company, and it indicates that Kathy was asking questions

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Speaker 1: about how to set up a bridal registry. So we

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Speaker 1: have a question mark about the necklace. We don't know

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Speaker 1: and there was no receipt found or anything in the

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Speaker 1: car that indicated that a gift had been bought. There

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Speaker 1: was no car. Did she still have the money from

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Speaker 1: the cash she either? I think she cast some of

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Speaker 1: the check and what happened to the cash? The cash

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Speaker 1: was not in the car she she cast her chest.

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Speaker 1: So before I said that there was a giant cover

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Speaker 1: up within the archdiocese church where she she had taught

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Speaker 1: for so long Archbishop Kio High School. Before I claim that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, could it have been Gemma that somebody saw

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Speaker 1: her with an expensive necklace she just bought, followed her

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Speaker 1: out so or somebody got her after she cast a

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Speaker 1: check the money was nowhere to be found. Are those

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Speaker 1: viable options or no? Just I don't have a dog

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Speaker 1: in the fight. I just want the truth. Um, both

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Speaker 1: are possible. We did have the necklace analyzed by a

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Speaker 1: gemologist at a story store um last year and he

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Speaker 1: indicated that it was probably one of a number of

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Speaker 1: necklaces that were made more as a novelty for birth stones,

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Speaker 1: and he said at that time, in nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: it was probably worth about fifty dollars, so it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have been high end jewelry, but fifteen dollars to a

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Speaker 1: teacher who's making two and fifty dollars every two weeks

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Speaker 1: would be a lot of money, so we're not sure

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Speaker 1: about that. Of course, it's possible that someone may have

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Speaker 1: seen her deposit the check. We also know that a

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Speaker 1: young girl from Archbishop Kio was near the bank in

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Speaker 1: the parking lot with her mom and they talked to

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Speaker 1: sister Cathy in the parking lot, and the police have

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Speaker 1: their interview, So we don't know if that was as

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Speaker 1: she was leaving to return home or to go across

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Speaker 1: the street to the hack company, or if it was

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Speaker 1: when she was going into the bank with me. Also

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Speaker 1: is Shane Waters, private investigator, and podcasts are also on

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Speaker 1: the story. The other monster rearing its head in this

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Speaker 1: scenario is a series of claims made which I believe,

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Speaker 1: I'll just put it out there. I believe these women

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Speaker 1: regarding sex abuse with art within Archbishop Kio High School

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Speaker 1: by one of the fathers. Joseph Mascow, what what do

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Speaker 1: you know, Shane, Well, Nancy, I will say I also

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Speaker 1: believe these women, and since the Netflix documentary aired, several

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Speaker 1: more of them came forward. So when when I look

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Speaker 1: at this case, there's there's a few different angles. It's

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Speaker 1: almost like a few different fronts. There's this abuse that's happening.

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Speaker 1: I believe that it happened and the church covered it up.

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Speaker 1: When I look at this case, I also see the

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Speaker 1: similarities between the Church of Baltimore and the mafia. And

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Speaker 1: I say that because the mafia we know has influenced,

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Speaker 1: they have money and people are scared of them, and

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Speaker 1: it seems like that's what these women were facing at

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Speaker 1: that time as well. Not only was it the mafia present,

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Speaker 1: but they also were afraid of the faith. The faith

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Speaker 1: element as well. You know, my family is very religious,

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Speaker 1: They're not Catholic, but I think if I were to

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Speaker 1: ever approach someone and say that I was being abused

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Speaker 1: by someone from the church, that puts a lot of

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Speaker 1: question in my family's faith. And unfortunately, that was what

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Speaker 1: these women were all facing at that time. Um. Also,

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Speaker 1: when I'm looking at this case, just as an overhead,

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Speaker 1: we can. It's it's easy to wonder if Cathy was robbed.

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Speaker 1: We see people being robbed all the time, and they don't.

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Speaker 1: They don't end up in the same faith that Cathy

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Speaker 1: ended up. So the question, the big question here is

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Speaker 1: are these events related? And I mean it's it's crazy.

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Speaker 1: All of these women that were abused, they will tell

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Speaker 1: you we think that this was related. Because of course,

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Speaker 1: prior to sister Cathy being being murdered, she was saying

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Speaker 1: that she was going to confront these people who are

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Speaker 1: abusing And it's not that she was just going to

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Speaker 1: be confronting Father Mascal. She's confronting this this church that

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Speaker 1: that we know protected him and they are willing to

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Speaker 1: put theirselves and their money on the line to protect him.

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Speaker 1: So when when you come up with this scenario, what

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Speaker 1: are they willing to do to ensure that they not

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Speaker 1: only continue to protect this monster, but to protect themselves

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Speaker 1: because now they're they're they've dug a hole where they've

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Speaker 1: protected him for so many years. You know, anytime abuse

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Speaker 1: would come up against him, they would move him to

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Speaker 1: a different place, or they would send him to a

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Speaker 1: facility where they would try to help him or try

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Speaker 1: to get try to try to stray him in a

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Speaker 1: different direction. But after so long, you know, if if

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Speaker 1: if Mr Cathy would have came out at that time

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Speaker 1: and made a big noise against them, that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people with a lot of money and a lot

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Speaker 1: of influence that would have gone down. And I don't

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Speaker 1: see that them being willing to what that happened to

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Speaker 1: Shane waters Uh and Jimma Hoskins. The big question is

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Speaker 1: while Sister Cathy, we don't have evidence that she was

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Speaker 1: molested by the priest A Joseph Maskell, she seemingly knew

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Speaker 1: all about rampant molestation sex molestation in the Catholic school

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Speaker 1: Archbishop Kio High School. In fact, isn't it true Jimma

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Speaker 1: Hoskins that she quote ran interference for one of his

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Speaker 1: molestation victims that didn't want to see him or encounter him.

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Speaker 1: What a horrible, horrible position to be in as a

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Speaker 1: young girl being raped and molested over and over and

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Speaker 1: over at school by the person that when you're in

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Speaker 1: confession you're literally speaking to God and you have to

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Speaker 1: see the person at school and she's apparently one of

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Speaker 1: the victims enlisted Sister Kathy to keep her away from

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Speaker 1: her molester. Correct, So Kathy knew about everything? Was she

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Speaker 1: about to blow the lid? Jimma, what can you tell

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Speaker 1: me about these victims? Well, I know uh firsthand of

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Speaker 1: three women who when they were girls, uh, confided in

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Speaker 1: Kathy and um. The first one I know confided in

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Speaker 1: December of the other two in nineteen in the spring

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Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty nine. Now, Kathy left Archbishop ko to

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Speaker 1: teach in a public school and to live in an

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Speaker 1: apartment in the spring and June of six So for

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Speaker 1: for on one hand, the girls felt like she had

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Speaker 1: abandoned them, But my gut tells me that perhaps she

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Speaker 1: and Russell were afraid to stay there. She told her

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Speaker 1: family when they were very dismayed, that she was leaving

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Speaker 1: and thinking about leaving the convent. And she told her

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Speaker 1: family that it was more dangerous for her to teach

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Speaker 1: at Kio than it was to teach in the city

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Speaker 1: in Baltimore, which says a lot. Now, we also are

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Speaker 1: aware from more than one woman that high ranking politicians

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Speaker 1: and businessmen and police officers were involved in the abuse.

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Speaker 1: This was a prostitution ring. This wasn't just a few

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Speaker 1: girls from Kio. There were drugs involved, there were sleazy

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Speaker 1: motels involved, and at everybody took care of each other.

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Speaker 1: If it goes all the way to city Hall, and

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Speaker 1: it did, then everybody's taking care of each other. The

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Speaker 1: police are taking care of Mascal, the politicians are taking

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Speaker 1: care of the businessmen and the police. Nobody talks. The

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Speaker 1: police are being serviced some right at the school, coming

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Speaker 1: in the fire door into Father Maskell's office where drugged

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Speaker 1: and hip or hypnotized girls were there and money is exchanged.

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Speaker 1: When I think that I was in that building, it

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Speaker 1: makes me so angry that the only thing that divided

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Speaker 1: us from that hell was a one inch door. It's

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Speaker 1: appalling because we knew nothing about what was going on,

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Speaker 1: and we know that, I believe much of the many

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Speaker 1: of the administrators in the building knew what was happening.

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Speaker 1: They refused to talk to the police. The ones that

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Speaker 1: are still living, they've been told by their superior arriers

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Speaker 1: not to talk. And it's not right. Somebody has to

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Speaker 1: blow the whistle. This is not okay. And well, there's

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Speaker 1: uh some credence, a fair bit of credence to Jimma's

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Speaker 1: story because we know that Father Joseph Maskell was a

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Speaker 1: chaplain and counselor there at Archbishop Kio High School. He

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Speaker 1: had a brother on the police force, and there is

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Speaker 1: no doubt that sister Cathy knew about the abuse. Not

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Speaker 1: only did he have a brother on the police force,

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Speaker 1: he was a counselor or the chaplain to the force

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Speaker 1: as well, so there are a lot of connections between

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Speaker 1: him and the police too. Karen Stark, Psychologists joining us

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Speaker 1: out of New York. Karen, I mean, I'm Methodist, I'm

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Speaker 1: not Catholic, but when I hear about a Methodist minister

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Speaker 1: who has done a horrible deed, I am mortified. I

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Speaker 1: think it it's just horrible because that's someone you look

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Speaker 1: up to, that you trust. I consider my minister, uh

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Speaker 1: who we have male and female ministers at our family church.

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Speaker 1: I consider them not only friends, but confidants and someone

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Speaker 1: that I would go to to pray for or with

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Speaker 1: me in times of need. You know, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: to take in that someone who is a person of

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Speaker 1: God that we look to, that we look up to,

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Speaker 1: and I do. I look up to them, even though

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Speaker 1: I've heard countless stories about this priest did that, this

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Speaker 1: preacher did that, this minister did and most of them.

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Speaker 1: Aren't your true to think that these young girls were

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Speaker 1: in this position to be raped over and over and

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Speaker 1: over and Mascale was transferred from one place to the next,

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Speaker 1: and now you've got a dead none. I mean, why

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Speaker 1: do people why are explain the the thinking, the mindset

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Speaker 1: of when you will not report molestation because it is

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Speaker 1: a priest or a pastor. Well, I think it's important

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Speaker 1: for you to know, Nancy, and for everyone listening that

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Speaker 1: it's not just a priest or a pastor, it's anyone

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Speaker 1: who is older, who's in a position. It becomes a

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Speaker 1: position of authority. So if it's apparent, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: who the person is that's doing the molestation. When you're

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Speaker 1: a child, and that means if you're in elementary school

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Speaker 1: or if you're in high school, you are blaming yourself

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Speaker 1: and ashamed of what happened. You don't really understand end

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Speaker 1: that you are not to blame in a situation like this.

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Speaker 1: And it's shameful that person who wanted sister Cathy to

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Speaker 1: you know, keep her from seeing the priest. I can

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Speaker 1: promise you that it wasn't because she was just angry

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Speaker 1: with him. She felt bad about herself, and there is

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Speaker 1: a conspiracy of silence because nobody wants to come forward

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Speaker 1: and reveal that this has happened to them. They believe

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Speaker 1: that they have somehow contributed to this occurring, and so

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Speaker 1: it's shameful on so many levels. Does that explain it? Yes,

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Speaker 1: it does, Karen, And as a crime victor myself on

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Speaker 1: several levels um and having dealt with so many sex

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Speaker 1: attack victims, a lot of times you just don't want

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Speaker 1: to talk about it and you feel that somehow it

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00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 1: was your fault and it's shameful, and that's the way

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Speaker 1: so many sex attack victims feel. And then add on

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Speaker 1: the layer of the attack or getting away with it.

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Speaker 1: You feel like nobody's gonna listen to you, nobody's gonna

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Speaker 1: believe you, so shut the hay up. And your family

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Speaker 1: may not believe you. Your family, who may be wedded

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Speaker 1: to the church may consider you at fault. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just in their minds, it's just not worth it.

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Speaker 1: Jima Hoskins, isn't it true You're a senior there at

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Speaker 1: Kio High School at the time sister Cathy goes missing, right? Correct? Yes? Correct?

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Speaker 1: What was it like when you discover she's not at

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Speaker 1: school today. What happened At the time that she disappeared.

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Speaker 1: She was no longer teaching at Keio, that's teaching at

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Speaker 1: Western High School in the city. But we were told

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00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: that she was missing that you know, there were no

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00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 1: cell phones and no Facebook, but our telephones on landlines.

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Speaker 1: All the girls were all calling each other, and the

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Speaker 1: whole community showed up at her apartment to help search,

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Speaker 1: and you've seen pictures of all the police car as well.

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Speaker 1: There were that many families looking as well. We were bewildered.

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Speaker 1: We didn't know that perhaps she just needed to get away,

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Speaker 1: Maybe she you know, just needed some space. We had

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Speaker 1: no idea what happened to her. It didn't make sense. Well,

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Speaker 1: was see the kind of person that needed space. Well,

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Speaker 1: she kind of made her own space. But we knew

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Speaker 1: nothing about the abuse, so we had nothing to assume.

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Speaker 1: We none of us knew anything about what was going

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Speaker 1: on at the school except the girls it was happening to.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure their mindset was very different. And I

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Speaker 1: know that I've heard uh one woman say that she

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Speaker 1: had confided in Kathy and it felt guilty that she

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Speaker 1: might have been responsible for Kathy's daths. So none of

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Speaker 1: us knew what was going on. Well, listen to this.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this, Jimma with Me, Jimma Hoskins, Shane Waters,

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Speaker 1: Karin Starkin, John Lmley. Guys, listen to this. This is

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Speaker 1: Donna von den Bosch who suffered horrific abuse. She actually

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Speaker 1: got a meager settlement with the Catholic Church. She was

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Speaker 1: attacked when she was just fourteen years old by the

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Speaker 1: same father Mascal. She had been a bright, excited, happy

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Speaker 1: freshman at the school. And here she is on w

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Speaker 1: j Z describing how she was given a drug laced

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Speaker 1: soda while she was at a Catholic youth picnic and

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Speaker 1: then raped by father Mescal and another priest. Listen, he

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Speaker 1: was psychotic. And here's this parish priest that I've known

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Speaker 1: since I was twelve, and it's also confusing. And this

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Speaker 1: we go one for the next three years. She opens

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00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: up to w jay Z telling how she's served a

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Speaker 1: drug laced soda at a Catholic youth picnic and then

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Speaker 1: raped by Father Mascoll and another priest. I'm just woozy

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Speaker 1: by fall damn. He lays on top of me. He

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Speaker 1: puts his legs in between my legs. To spare my

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Speaker 1: legs part and rapes me. She goes on to state

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Speaker 1: that at school she would hear her name called over

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Speaker 1: the loud speaker telling her to report to Father Moscow's office.

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Speaker 1: She said that sometimes she would go in and be raped,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes he would have a coke. She will be

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Speaker 1: drugged my most of the time and would be threatened.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we go in and be raped. Sometimes he would

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Speaker 1: have a coke. I would be drug most of the time.

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Speaker 1: He would keep guns in his top drawer. He would

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Speaker 1: threaten me with them. He stole your innocence, yes, he

354
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Speaker 1: stole your education. Yes. Did he steal your faith? Yes,

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Speaker 1: because maybe I could have grown up Catholic and been happy,

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Speaker 1: and I had to teach my kids you just don't

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Speaker 1: trust people because they have a collar own or something.

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Speaker 1: You know, monsters high you've seen the monster? Yes? Yes,

359
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: How do you feel about the archdiocese? Now? This has

360
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: to stop. People have to take responsibility. I hope they

361
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: find um out the terrible deeds that were done and

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00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: just to be served. I also hope that other survivors

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00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: here that you can survive, you can move on. Don't

364
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: be fooled into silence. So in my mind John Limley,

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00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: the fact that the church settled. It wasn't for a lot,

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Speaker 1: but they did make a forty dollars settlement for all

367
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: the rapes she endured at the hands of father. And

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Speaker 1: I say that with them dirt in my mouth, mescal

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00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: so to me, that tells me her story is true?

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Speaker 1: Or why would they have settled? And a lot of

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Speaker 1: that didn't take place until twenty or so years later,

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Speaker 1: two decades after the abuse. I think it would be

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Speaker 1: interesting to go back to the timeline of that early

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Speaker 1: November evening when Sister Cathy disappeared, uh, to bring a

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Speaker 1: little bit more forward about the case. Now, a few

376
00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: hours went by after Sister Cathy told Sister Russell that

377
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,239
Speaker 1: she was going to cash her paycheck, Um, go to

378
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: the bakery, maybe do a little shopping. It it's eleven o'clock.

379
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: A good number of hours have gone by, and so

380
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: Sister Russell becomes worried, so she calls two of their

381
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: priest friends who drive over to the apartment. They eventually

382
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: decide to call the police, and then they wait, and

383
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: they wait for hours. In fact, at one point, um

384
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: they even celebrate Mass at the at the kitchen or

385
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Speaker 1: dining room table. Um, just hoping against hope that that

386
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: sister Cathy just shows up around four or forty the

387
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: next morning, it's still very dark. Uh. Sister Cathy's brand

388
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: new Greenford Maverick is found with mud on it, unlocked,

389
00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: illegally parked just diagonally across from her apart it. And

390
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: this is interesting. The back end of the vehicle is

391
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: actually in the road. Um. And sister Cathy had a

392
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: designated parking spot behind the apartment building, so she certainly

393
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: would not have parked there. It's it's as if someone

394
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: wanted that vehicle found, but there was no sign of

395
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: the nun anywhere. Well, I can tell you this, John, Emily.

396
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: She did not part that car that way. No, not

397
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: at all. And it was several weeks. It was months

398
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: later before on a cold, cold January day. Uh, sister

399
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Speaker 1: Cathy's body is found by a hunter and his son.

400
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: It was found in an informal landfill. You know. It

401
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: was a landfill that was not designated as such. It's

402
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: just where people went to dump stuff. Uh. It was

403
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: on monumental road in a remote area of a good

404
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: distance away from Cathey's apartment and after an autopsy was performed.

405
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: It was revealed that Sister Cathy died from an interest

406
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: rebral hemorrhage after a fracture to her skull that was

407
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: inflicted by a blow to her left temple. They think

408
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: by a blunt instrument. When Sister Cathy was reported that night,

409
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: dozens of cops a half a dozen dog teams searched

410
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: and searched a wide swath of Baltimore in that neighborhood

411
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: looking for clues, headlines in the papers or city police

412
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: failed to find missing none, and as John Linley is reporting,

413
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: the next time she was seen, it was a horrifying site.

414
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: There she was, her face covered in maggots, the body

415
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: of Sister Cathy, frozen out in a field. When I

416
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: look at her in her habit and then in her

417
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: street clothes, she just looks so alive and so happy

418
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: and so eager to teach. But it all turned into

419
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: a horrific scene when she was found. Gemma, what can

420
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: you tell me about another young girl who claims that

421
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: she was taken by father Mescal to see as a

422
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: threat Sister Cathy's body as it lie in this field. Yes,

423
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,959
Speaker 1: I can clarify something. Cathy's body was found there was

424
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: not evidence of maggots on her face. This has been

425
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: a real um issue of of what actually happened because

426
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: it was January. This is horrendous. But I've done search

427
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: on the life syfe cycle of maggots, and I've worked

428
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: with the people that were on the body farm, which

429
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: is a research place for um the decomposition, and what

430
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: I learned was that because it was very warm after

431
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: Cathy disappeared, when Jean was taken to see her in November,

432
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: there were live maggots on her face and on her body.

433
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: Now in January, there was no evidence of that. But

434
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 1: in reading the autopsy, which I have a copy of,

435
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: and by the way, warners fits and we all know

436
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: who Warner s Fits is um he he explains that

437
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: there were maggots in her trachea and her esophagus, so

438
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: that what happens when the weather gets cold is that

439
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: live maggots burrowed deeper to where it's warm. And I

440
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: have to i and stay objective about this because it's

441
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: very emotional for me to think that has happened to

442
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: the person who was my mentor and the reason I

443
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: became a teacher, because to think of her in this

444
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: in this setting is just really difficult for me. But

445
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: the maggots actually were not on her face, they were

446
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: inside her body, and that showed up in the autopsy.

447
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: You know, I find that really interesting, jim on what

448
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: you're saying, because the witnesses that there were maggots, and

449
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: I I believe, Jemma, you're gonna laugh. I had one

450
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: of the oldest judges in the Fulton County Courthouse who

451
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: was I would also like to point out the sharpest

452
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: and the smartest judge I ever knew, Luther Alverson, told

453
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: every jury the same jury charge. It is your duty

454
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: as gerards to make all witnesses speak the truth, impugning

455
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: perjury on new one, which means stories can vary to

456
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: a certain degree. That doesn't mean the people are lying.

457
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: That means maybe they saw it at a different angle,

458
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: maybe this, maybe that. So if this, if there were

459
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: maggots in her throat, hoesophagus, and this young girl is

460
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: brought out to see the dead body and says, there

461
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: are maggots. I don't know what she saw. Maybe she

462
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: saw one. I believe that given your scenario that I

463
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: think that both both witnesses are speaking the truth. But

464
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: how did the girl get out there, and why did

465
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: she report the dead body? Right? Well, she was taken

466
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: by mask All and this was after she had been

467
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: abused by him for quite a while. He told her

468
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: that he knew where Cathy was. Maskell took her to

469
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: see Cathy's body and at that time, because it was

470
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: just a few weeks after her death, after her disappearance,

471
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: there were live maggots on her face. So Gene is

472
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: correct in saying that when Cathy's body was found in January, Harry,

473
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: there was no evidence of maggots because it was cold

474
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: and they burrowed deep into organs to get warm. Why

475
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: do you believe she didn't come forward, Jemma Hoskins, Well,

476
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: she was threatened with her life. Maskell said to her,

477
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: you see what happens when you say bad things about people,

478
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: and she was terrified. So she Jeane is the connection

479
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: between the abuse and the murder. She's credible. I believe her.

480
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: And when he took her there, it was to ensure

481
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: her silence because she knew then that he had been

482
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: responsible in some way for Kathy's death, for her murder,

483
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: and that was early in his abuse career. So to

484
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: every single person who had been abused by him, and

485
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: we know now that that number is over a hundred.

486
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: And to any nun at that fool who knew about

487
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: the abuse, everybody closed their mouth. They were terrified because

488
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: they knew they could be next. And I always believe

489
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: that that is why Russell did not call the police,

490
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 1: because she knew the police were involved. I think that's

491
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: why she called of Cathy's friend Jerry Kobe, and the

492
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: other the other brother who was a friend, because she

493
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: didn't know who to turn to. I think it almost

494
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: proves that the police were involved because Russell kept silent

495
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: and didn't call the police. But I believe that um

496
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: Jean is very credible. There's no way that she could

497
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: have known that those live maggots were there unless she

498
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: saw them. I think that that is very important, very important,

499
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: John Limley, when I prosecute cases and I've got a witness,

500
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: and I don't care if they're believable or unbelievable, or

501
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: credible not credible. If I putting them on the stand,

502
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: I believe them and if I can get any sintilla

503
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: of evidence to support what they're saying, it is very

504
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: important at trial. And Jimma Hoskins, who was a senior

505
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 1: there at this at Keio school when sister Cathy goes

506
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: missing and is killed, is describing this. That's so important.

507
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: That's why I spent so much time talking about maggots.

508
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: Not my favorite topic, but because they corroborate what this

509
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: young girl said. That Mescal took her there and said,

510
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: look what happens to people that talk about me? You

511
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: could be next. And this is a detail this young

512
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: girl wouldn't have just dreamed up on her own. And

513
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: then years later it is. It turns out there were

514
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: maggots in her esophagus, so it supports her story. It's

515
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: it's so upsetting to me. Now here's another twist, another wrinkle.

516
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: The body of Mascal, who later died was never going

517
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: to jail, was exhumed. His d n A did not

518
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: match crime scene d NA. That means nothing to me,

519
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 1: John Limley, because I don't have any evident Sister Cathy,

520
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: who by the way, was compared to Julie Andrews in

521
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: Sound of Music. That's kind of personality she had, and

522
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: I can just imagine her. I've been reading all the

523
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: old articles in the paper. For instance, police continue a

524
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: widespread search today for a pretty blue eyed year old

525
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: Nune who mysteriously disappeared Friday night on a shopping expedition

526
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: in the Edmonton Village area off Route forty. Sister Catherine

527
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 1: says Nick, a member of the school Sisters of Notre Dame,

528
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: reported missing early yesterday, five hours after failing to return

529
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: to her apartment her sporting new car in nineteen seventy

530
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: green matter Rick found during the night parked a blot

531
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: from her home. It's only contents a box of buns

532
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: from Muley's Bakery and a novel on native grounds. I'm

533
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: just imagining her crime stories. Contributing reporter John Limley, his

534
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: DNA did not match DNA at the scene. But for

535
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: all I know, the DNA at the scene is DNA

536
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: in the car. It could be on the car, it

537
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: could be anything. It could be on the paperbag. That

538
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: does not mean anything to me, Limley, Where did the

539
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: DNA come from? There? Talking about the d N A

540
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: was was found at the scene. That's been under wraps

541
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: a little bit because even the car, the apartment, the bank,

542
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: the store, the bakery, bag, the body, what what what? What? Scene?

543
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: There's so there's a primaria secondary and a tertiary crime

544
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: scene here, right, this was was this was found connected

545
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: with a vehicle and surrounding uh Cathy's body there where

546
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: they found her on that January morning. Are you sure

547
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: that's where the DNA came from? Jimma, go ahead, because

548
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: I'm not clear either where did the DNA come from? Okay,

549
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: then came from a cigarette butt? All right? It was

550
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: found at the crime scene. But at this point the

551
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: police have asked me not to share exactly where at

552
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: the crime scene. That's all I can say. But it

553
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: was at the crime scene where her body was found.

554
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: But I can't tell you specifically where because I've been

555
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: asked not to. So it was where her body was,

556
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: and that's still Jimma. No, We've got to keep the

557
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: integrity of the investigation exactly. Jima. Here's the thing. It

558
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: still means nothing to me because I don't know how

559
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: that cigarette but got there. It may or may not

560
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: be connected. You just can't tell me that he was

561
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: not involved in some way. I will never tell you

562
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: that because I believe he choreographed the whole thing. Whether

563
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: he was there or not, we don't know. Yeah, I

564
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: read between the lines. The cigarette but was at the

565
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: crime scene, and my I my opinion is that it

566
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: may have been a decoy because it hasn't matched anybody,

567
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: and so perhaps you know, these guys were I think

568
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: they were in cahoots. They weren't stupid. Mascal was was

569
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: a monster, genius and if he involved subs, anybody could

570
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: have thrown a cigarette button there from any place and

571
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: everybody was going in the wrong direction. Jim, let me

572
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: ask you a question. What was his personality? Was he charismatic?

573
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: Was he attractive? I mean, I've looked at him. He's

574
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: not attractive to me, but why were people drawn to him? Okay,

575
00:40:52,680 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: Masco was charismatic in he was very brilliant. He he

576
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: was very smooth, smooth talker to me. He was never

577
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: physically attractive. Um. People say, you know who would play

578
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: him in a in a movie, and I can't think

579
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: of any He's not George Clooney, but um, very insidious,

580
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: always watching. It's my understanding that he would consult with

581
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: the nurse, the counselor, and the dean each week about

582
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: what girls were having problems mental, physical, school, emotional, and

583
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: that would be his shopping list. I hate to say

584
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 1: it that way, but that's how He preyed on his

585
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: on his victims, um girls who were having issues, girls

586
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: who were upset, girls who were, you know, experimenting with

587
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: drugs or we're having problems at home. He was looking

588
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: for anybody that he could manipulate. And I'm not saying

589
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: that all the victims were in that situation, but he

590
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: was drawn to certain types of girls that he knew

591
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: he would be able to manipulate. He would say Mass.

592
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: He did not live at our Ti Kyo. He would

593
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: come to say Mass and he was chaplain. The other

594
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: priests that was there was the head of religious studies,

595
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: and that was Neil Magnus. He also was abusive. He

596
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: is actually the first person that some of the girls

597
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 1: UH interacted with in confession, and then he asked them

598
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: to come to his office, so he and Maskell would

599
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: abuse girls together. We also know that some of the

600
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: staff at the school facilitated the visits to his office

601
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: by calling the girls or giving out the passes. A

602
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: lot of people knew what was going on, and nobody

603
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: was talking about it. And I believe Sister Kathy and

604
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: Sister Russell were the only two that we're willing to

605
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: do anything. So Mascow had a lot of power, but

606
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: a control freak, um, a sociopath and and I believe that, uh,

607
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: this man had enough power, enough skills, he fooled everybody.

608
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 1: He fooled everybody, even his own teachers in his master's programs. Um,

609
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: if there's is something I could say about this whole issue,

610
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: And Nancy, thank you so much for doing this because

611
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: people listen to you, and I hope that you'll continue

612
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: to push for attention to this. But I want to

613
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: celebrate and acknowledge all the people that have come forward,

614
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: because they're well over a hundred now and many more

615
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: hundreds who have contacted me. That the Keepers survivors gave

616
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: them the strength and the courage to speak for the

617
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 1: first time about being sexually abused or sexually harassed. And

618
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of what's happening in the

619
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: public right now is due in part to the women

620
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: of the Keepers. Karen start joining us out of New York.

621
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: Will this case ever be solved? Why or why not? Sure? Um,

622
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: if it does get solved, it will be because of

623
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: all the attention that's been brought to the case because

624
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 1: of Gemma and her fellow investigator. However, even if it

625
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: never gets solved. I want to say that it's so

626
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: important that it came to light and that this the

627
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: victims get a chance to tell their story and get

628
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: it out, and that we hope it will never happen

629
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: in the future because of people like Gemma Jemma Hoskins.

630
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: Final thought to me, I'm not religious, but I do

631
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: have faith, and I do believe in my higher power.

632
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: But to me, if evil walks the earth, it would

633
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: have been him pure evil, because he could hide behind

634
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: a presvestments and he could come across as being charming smart.

635
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: You know, his professor at at Hopkins said he was

636
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: one of the smartest people she ever met, and he

637
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: fooled her because they became friends and it wasn't until

638
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: near the end of his life that she realized what

639
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: he was doing. So it's appalling because you know, people

640
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Speaker 1: believe while you do what the priest says, and girls

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Speaker 1: were afraid to tell. And it's a mess. It's a mess.

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Speaker 1: I do believe it will be solved. I think the

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Speaker 1: police it boils down to, well, you're you're attorney. It's

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Speaker 1: going to be either d n a, a confession, or

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Speaker 1: an eye witness, and all three of those are possible

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Speaker 1: right now and the police are using new technology. They're

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Speaker 1: doing further testing with DNA on the evidence that was

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Speaker 1: found at the scene, and I I believe it will

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Speaker 1: be solved and probably in the not too distant future.

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Speaker 1: The case of the abduction and murderer of sister Kathy

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Speaker 1: is still open, still unresolved. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing

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Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,