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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to short stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck,

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Speaker 1: and there's Josh over there, and this is short stuff.

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Speaker 1: Get up, Chuck. All right, We're gonna go to the

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Speaker 1: late nineteen seventies. The Vietnam War is well over, well

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Speaker 1: for America at least, well that's true, um, But Vietnamese

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Speaker 1: and Leotian people started noticing over there that periodically there

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Speaker 1: would be a sticky yellow rain um when it was

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Speaker 1: really sunny out coming down, and that this substance killed

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Speaker 1: plants and made people sick, especially among the among the Moongo,

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Speaker 1: which is to say h m O n G, which

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Speaker 1: were people in Southeast Asia who fought with France against

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Speaker 1: the Communists since the nineteen fifties. Yeah, they were mountain

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Speaker 1: people in north north Vietnam and in Laos. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think they probably uh there, Oh, never mind, I was

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Speaker 1: about to discuss a deleted scene and apocalypse now, but

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Speaker 1: we don't have time for that. Are they the ones

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Speaker 1: that they dine with they have dinner with it? I

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Speaker 1: think so. I think there were French in the in Mong,

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Speaker 1: but it would make sense because the Mong cast their

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Speaker 1: lot with the with the French, and then later on

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Speaker 1: the Americans when the CIA showed up, because remember we've

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Speaker 1: talked about this in multiple episodes. One of the things

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Speaker 1: that the CIA did is they would drop behind enemy

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Speaker 1: lines and say, oh, you hate the people were fighting too, well,

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Speaker 1: let's assemble a guerilla army, and the Mong fought with them. Well,

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Speaker 1: that led to big time trouble for the Mong after

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Speaker 1: the Americans withdrew and I believe nineteen seventy five, because

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Speaker 1: that left the Mong holding the bag. Everyone knew that

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Speaker 1: the Mong had fought against the Communists, and the Communists

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Speaker 1: had just become successful in the Vietnam War, and so

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Speaker 1: the Communists turned their um ire against the Mong people

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Speaker 1: who no longer had any any American backing. So as

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Speaker 1: they were kind of driven from their homes and um

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Speaker 1: and and two refugee camps across the border into Thailand.

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Speaker 1: Um they were harassed by the Communist government and from that,

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Speaker 1: from that that experience, this idea that they that something

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Speaker 1: was being sprayed on them kind of took root, this

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Speaker 1: yellow rain that was thought to be some sort of

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Speaker 1: um biological weapon that was being deployed by the Vietnamese government.

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Speaker 1: And Um, the Americans took it quite seriously. And got

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Speaker 1: their hands on some samples, and in I think nine one,

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Speaker 1: Alexander Hague, who was Secretary of State at the time, said, yep,

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Speaker 1: it's some sort of biological weapon. We think it's tricot sin,

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Speaker 1: which is a micro toxin, and we think that the

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Speaker 1: Soviets are supplying it in flagrant violation of anti biological

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Speaker 1: weapons conventions that have been around. Since you didn't do

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Speaker 1: your Alexander Haigue. That was my Alexander. It didn't come through.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing was well, goodness, sorry, Al, can you

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Speaker 1: do one? Let's hear your well, I would I would

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Speaker 1: just have said something about the soil at Union like that.

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Speaker 1: That's uh, that's Henry Kissinger. Oh you're right, yeah, Alexander,

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Speaker 1: he didn't talk anything like that. I was totally thinking Kissinger.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny. As soon as you said that, I

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Speaker 1: got a mental picture that went from Kissinger to Hague

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Speaker 1: because I totally remember Al Hague, now, yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: all right, that was you know, he liked to impersonate

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Speaker 1: Kissinger everybody, yeah, behind his back, and it wasn't very flattering,

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Speaker 1: all right, So uh, and we're going to leave that

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Speaker 1: in there, even though its short stuff. I don't care.

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Speaker 1: That was a classic s Y s K moment, my friend. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: first of all, we should point out that this idea

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Speaker 1: that it would be something like that after we had

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Speaker 1: dropped agent orange all over the place for ten years,

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Speaker 1: you can't blame them for thinking something like that is

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Speaker 1: going on. However, Uh, something kind of smelled hinky in

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Speaker 1: the nose of one. Matt Messelsson was a biologist at

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Speaker 1: Harvard University, and he said, this doesn't really make sense

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Speaker 1: to me. So a couple of years later in he

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Speaker 1: got some samples and he said, you know what's in here.

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Speaker 1: It's really weird. He said, there's a lot of hollowed

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Speaker 1: out pollen that's indigenous to this area. And this would

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Speaker 1: mean that the Soviet Union is taking pollen, hollowing it out,

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Speaker 1: filling it with poison, and bringing it back and dropping

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Speaker 1: it down on sunny days like it's rain. It's a

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Speaker 1: very bad idea, it's very outlandish. It's not a very

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Speaker 1: effective dispersal method. And the concentration of of myco toxins

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Speaker 1: in there, anyway, was not really any different than samples

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Speaker 1: of UH leaves and plants anywhere else in Southeast Asia. Right,

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Speaker 1: like his His position was like, yes, these people are

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Speaker 1: being harassed, but I don't think this yellow rain is

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Speaker 1: actually a biological weapon being supplied by the USS are

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Speaker 1: that there's something else going on. It's it's like you said,

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Speaker 1: it's just too outland ish. What that what the process

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Speaker 1: would require for this to to be what it was.

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Speaker 1: So he had he was a biologist, like you said,

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Speaker 1: and he knew enough to know that bees, specifically UM

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Speaker 1: giant Asian honey bees that lived in the area UM

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Speaker 1: actually will eat pollen, but they don't eat the outer

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Speaker 1: shell of the pollen. They eat the protein inside the pollen.

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Speaker 1: So when they poop, they poop out regular pollen or

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Speaker 1: they poop out hollowed out pollen. Okay, So he said,

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Speaker 1: I think I think this might just be a case

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Speaker 1: of honey bee poop. I think that's what everybody's freaked

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Speaker 1: out about, is it's just honey bee poop. But people

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Speaker 1: were saying, Okay, yeah, that's true biologically, but what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about for that for something that looks like yellow

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Speaker 1: rain to be produced would would require a mind boggling

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Speaker 1: number of bees to all poop at once in the

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Speaker 1: same area. So explain that, Mr Messelson, mr. Mr Harvard

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Speaker 1: trained biologist. You can't, can you? And he said I

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Speaker 1: will right after this message break. Al Right, So Messeilson

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Speaker 1: takes a message break. Everyone's like, what's that, right, and

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Speaker 1: he said, I just said he's a bathroom. Oh well,

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Speaker 1: that's normal enough, but we don't call it message breaks.

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Speaker 1: So there was well he used scare quotes. So uh

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Speaker 1: so he said there's some other inconsistencies here too, because

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Speaker 1: you interviewed a lot of people and um, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that said that there were no planes

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Speaker 1: around when this stuff was raining down, which is a problem. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I mean that's how you disperse biological weapons typically

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Speaker 1: is from a plane. So where's this you know, where's

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Speaker 1: the plane? How is this stuff happening if there's no plane?

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Speaker 1: And he also said that you know all these health

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Speaker 1: problems that are going on, he said, it's really probably

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Speaker 1: just um people with dysentery and nutritional deficiencies. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it seems like you're asking very leading questions to me.

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Speaker 1: This whole thing really stinks at this point to Messilson, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll also check there's one other thing there. So I

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Speaker 1: went back and I was reading some like an article

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Speaker 1: in science from the time, and they were saying like, like,

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Speaker 1: there is indeed some sort of micro toxic poison that

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Speaker 1: is hurting people. And so that was a big reason

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Speaker 1: why this is still yet resolved because there was micro

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Speaker 1: toxic poisoning. Messilson's position was, well, these people are living

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Speaker 1: in refugee camps. It's not like they're eating top of

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Speaker 1: the line food. I'm sure some of them are eating

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Speaker 1: moldy food and are suffering ill effects from it. So

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Speaker 1: that would explain this appearance of micro toxic poisoning. And

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Speaker 1: in in that guy's defense, that tricot the scene is

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Speaker 1: supposedly was discovered in the USSR from people eating moldy food.

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Speaker 1: That's how it was first found. Amazing. Yeah, So a

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Speaker 1: few years later nine I'm about to graduate high school

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Speaker 1: and Messilson teams up with some Canadian biologists to figure

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Speaker 1: this whole thing out, because the whole idea of like,

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Speaker 1: why you know, you know how many bees it would

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Speaker 1: take to poop down yellow rain on everyone, And they said, well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to find out just how many bees it

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Speaker 1: would take. Uh. They realized that it was falling on hot,

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Speaker 1: sunny days, which is the first big clue, and they

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Speaker 1: measured the body mass of these bees before they left

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Speaker 1: their highs, then after they came back to the hives,

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Speaker 1: and they found out that while they were gone they

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Speaker 1: lost of their body weight on the return flight. That

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Speaker 1: is a big old poop. That's a big old poop.

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Speaker 1: So they would leave together and these big giant swarms,

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Speaker 1: thousands of them, they would poop. They would come back

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Speaker 1: to care for their little larvae. And they said, this

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Speaker 1: is also happening most frequently on really hot sunny day,

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Speaker 1: so we think we've kind of figured this thing out right.

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Speaker 1: What they figured out was that the so um Asian

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Speaker 1: honey bees the larva as they're developing, if they overheat,

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Speaker 1: they will deform basically, um they they will um develop incorrectly,

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Speaker 1: I guess. And so to keep the temperature in the

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Speaker 1: hive lower, especially on hot sunny days, the hive, the

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Speaker 1: bees in the hive will fly out and and excrete

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Speaker 1: waste all at once, basically or in one trip. And

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Speaker 1: then when they come back, since they've lost their body weight,

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Speaker 1: the temperature inside the hive is that much lower because

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Speaker 1: their weight is not producing that much more waste heat.

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Speaker 1: So they actually figured out that that's what bees will do,

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Speaker 1: at least Asian honey bees, to keep the to regulate

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Speaker 1: the temperature in the hive so that the larva can

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Speaker 1: develop normally. Um, and they said, we think we just

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Speaker 1: solve the mystery of yellow rain. That's right. Uh more.

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Speaker 1: Research in later years pretty much confirmed this and everyone

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Speaker 1: is basically on board, except for the fact that Kissinger

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Speaker 1: and Alexander Haig never came back and retract of their statements.

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Speaker 1: So officially we um, you know, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that stuff matters or not, but officially we have never

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Speaker 1: retracted that statement as as a nation that it was

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Speaker 1: not the Soviet Union. Um. I just got finished watching Chernobyl,

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Speaker 1: so I gotta see it. I'm like at a fever

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Speaker 1: point of like the truth and toxins because the Soviet

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Speaker 1: Union still says or I'm sorry, Russia still says thirty

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Speaker 1: one people died. How many people did die? Oh, they

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Speaker 1: don't know, anywhere between four thousand and ninety thousand, depending

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Speaker 1: on how you count. You know, cancer twenty years later

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Should we do? I was talking

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Speaker 1: to a friend, Blair Um, who is a friend of

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Speaker 1: both of ours, a photographer, and he was like, you

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Speaker 1: gotta do one on Chernoba, And I'm like, everybody knows

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Speaker 1: about it, now, should we do one? Maybe? Okay, because

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Speaker 1: I'd love to. It's a fascinating topic, But if everybody

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Speaker 1: already knows about it, it's like, what's the point. It's

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Speaker 1: a it was a heck of a show. I'll say that,

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Speaker 1: all right, Well I'll at least watch that, all right.

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Speaker 1: So to finish here, though the Mong, for their part,

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Speaker 1: things haven't gotten a lot better. They continue to suffer

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Speaker 1: to this day. Um. Very small amount of them made

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Speaker 1: it over to the United States. Uh. Some people returned

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Speaker 1: to Laos, some people returned to Vietnam. Uh. Like we

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Speaker 1: said at the beginning, a lot of them were going

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Speaker 1: to Thailand as refugees. But in two thousand nine the

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Speaker 1: Thai government shut that down and sent away thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of the Mong. And Uh, it's really just sort

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Speaker 1: of a sad situation. But as this article points out,

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Speaker 1: the one silver lining is that, like this whole thing,

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Speaker 1: anytime there's a new theory about what happened, or anytime

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Speaker 1: it makes the news, the Mong also make the news, right,

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Speaker 1: which I think is really worth pointing out. For sure,

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Speaker 1: this this uh. One of the articles we used for

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Speaker 1: this was um called the Mystery of Yellow Rain. It

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Speaker 1: was written by Jacob Roberts for Distillations, which is a

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Speaker 1: blog of the Science History Institute. Very good stuff. All right,

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Speaker 1: Well that's it for short stuff see later. M H.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heeart

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