1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: Hey, dear listener, justa heads up that the piece you're 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: about to hear is about curse words, slang words, and slurs, 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: So you're going to hear a lot of those words, 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: and you've been warned. 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 2: Ever had one of those conversations where neither person feels 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: like they're getting it. Last summer, my boyfriend Jeffrey and 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 2: I were hanging out, chatting over in Negronies. We live 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 2: in New York City. He's Chinese American and grew up 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: in southern California. I am Colombian and have spent most 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 2: of my life in Babbadah. So sometimes when English is 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: not English and I throw in a Spanish phrase that 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: just feels right to me. Most of the time those 13 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: moments turn into a light language lesson with me explaining 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 2: to my boyfriend what I said or what I meant 15 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 2: to say. But sometimes things get lost in translation and 16 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 2: we end up in a full on debate like this. 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 3: One night we were lying in bed together. It was 18 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: just a typical night in bed. We were just having 19 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 3: casual conversation and I made a joke to you that 20 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 3: was probably a little bit shady. Oh it was shady, 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 3: And then you are like oh my god, you puribo, 22 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 3: but in Spanish close enough. 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: But what I said was something like, ah it stiputle 24 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: to show that I was annoyed. 25 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 3: But the word I caught was peribo, and I was like, oh, 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 3: what's that word? And so I googled it and the 27 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 3: first thing that came up was bag. 28 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 2: For the record, that's not what I meant. Why would 29 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: I call my boyfriend the F word. I mean, I'm 30 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: no bigot and I'm gay. Two See, beetle is a 31 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: coming insult in Columbia that, honestly, you hear everywhere, and 32 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: I don't think it's that intense. It would be like 33 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: calling someone out when I annoy you and you just 34 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 2: say you bitch. I tried to explain myself why he 35 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: didn't buy it. So would you say you were offended? 36 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: Maybe? 37 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 3: I don't know if I was offended. I was just like, 38 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 3: why would you say that? For the joke that I said, 39 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 3: I wanted to get to the bottom of the word, 40 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 3: but it went into a deep dive. You're like, no, 41 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 3: that's not what it means. I was like, but Google 42 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 3: says that it means this. 43 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: Yes, fine, Google, But like I've been speaking Spanish, my 44 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: whole life, and I've been speaking Colombian Spanish and using 45 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: that word since I was a teenager, so why not 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: trust me over the internet? I was mad, And what 47 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: really got me was that throughout the conversation I felt 48 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: like Jeffrey, an American, was judging not just me, but 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: my language and my culture. 50 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 3: Saying America or par ebo. This being used in like 51 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: vernacular amongst the Colombian population seems weird to me if 52 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 3: it has this connotation, like why why would you even 53 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 3: consider it as a word. 54 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: From futro media. It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria ino Josa. 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: Today we're going to go down a language rabbit hole 56 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: with Andres Pacheco Hron. He's going to look at what 57 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: gets lost and who gets hurt in translation, also the 58 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: history behind these words and how queer identity shows up 59 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: in language. So let me hand the mic back to Andres. 60 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: I feel conflicted whenever I hear people tell me that 61 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: we speak kind of rough, because in Colombia, profanities are 62 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: very much part of her slang. They've kind of morphed 63 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: into common terms. Still, I get that by doing a 64 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: literal translation. English speakers in the US here only the 65 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: homophobic part. Take the word marika, for example, which even 66 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: in other Spanish speaking countries like Mexico, is a derogatory 67 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: f word for Queerman and trans folks, but where I'm from, 68 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 2: people use it as much as college guys say pro or, 69 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: as much as folks from southern California use the word like, right, Jeffrey. 70 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 3: I feel like like you're being like and then you're like, 71 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 3: I was like. 72 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: Another one is gonorhea, which as it sounds, means gonorrhea 73 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: in English, literally the sdi, but in Columbia it could 74 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: mean an insult, an expression of surprise, even a compliment. 75 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: People get really creative with it, like this tik talker. 76 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 4: Ko gona no jesstrea. 77 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: And it's not just a meme. I really do use 78 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: as many of these words as I can in a sentence. 79 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: Here's me telling a friend about a bad haircut in 80 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 2: a voice. Now, anyway, back to the word that caused 81 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: an argument between me and my boyfriend. According to some websites, 82 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 2: the word piobo is a homophobic anzult, even though I 83 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: don't use it as such, but hear me out. It's 84 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 2: not just me and my friends talking like this. Many 85 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 2: Colombians queer or not. Use these words a lot. They're 86 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: part of her music. Some of Colombia's biggest reggaeton artists 87 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 2: drop these expressions in their songs very casually. Here's Fate 88 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 2: singing one of his most famous songs, Elise. He says 89 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: pio five times in less than three minutes while describing 90 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 2: the guy who stole his girlfriend. Many case even more common. 91 00:05:55,279 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: Here's Kato g casually talking to her friend amia Ya, 92 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: and Gona is also part of her poetry, like when 93 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: she sings about a guy who broke her heart. Most 94 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: of the time, these words feel totally normal to us. 95 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: But my boyfriend made a really good point, going along 96 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: with things just because they've been normal doesn't make it right. 97 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 3: So there was this period of time when I was 98 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 3: younger when someone would say something stupid. They'd be like, 99 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 3: that's so gay in a way of like equating gayness 100 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 3: as being a native thing. And then it kind of 101 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 3: like evolved, and I will say that there is this 102 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 3: whole campaign, the Hillary Duff that says, do you like 103 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 3: this top so gay? Really? 104 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's totally gay. You know you really shouldn't say that. 105 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 5: So what I'll say that something's gay when. 106 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: You mean it's bad. 107 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 5: It's insulting when you say that's so gay? Do you 108 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 5: realize what you say? 109 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: Knock it off? Is Hillary Duff? 110 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: Right? 111 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: Should I knock it off? Her colembon is just not 112 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: as woke as Americans are. We doing something so wrong 113 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 2: that we need help from the north to be more polite? 114 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: Is my boyfriend? 115 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 3: Right? 116 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 5: Am? 117 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 3: I the Hitlary Duff of Columbia? 118 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: So I wanted answers, and lucky for me, I'm not 119 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: the only queer Columbia in New York. So I asked around. 120 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: Is Peter Basler? 121 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a slur. Slur for sure. 122 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 5: You didn't know. 123 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: I didn't know, and I don't think any of my 124 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: class that's crazy. That's my friend Louse. She's trans and 125 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: has been living in the US since twenty sixteen. She 126 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: grew up in Ecualora, but her family is Colombian. She 127 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: said that growing up in Ecualora, that word that I 128 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 2: use so nonchalantly was used against her. It was used 129 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: to hurt her. 130 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 4: There was a one Colombian guy that was really homophobic 131 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 4: and came in seventh grade and he used to call 132 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 4: me brudo. 133 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: Luis grew up surrounded by Equadorian's lang, in which these 134 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: words are insults, and since moving to the US, her 135 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: perspective on Colombian's lang was more like Hillary Doves than 136 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: Carol Gee's. 137 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 4: I think at one point I was like, columbs are 138 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 4: some weird Why why gone Ria? And I probably made jokes. 139 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: About it with the word marika for example, the one 140 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: that translates to the F word. 141 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 4: There was a time when, like three years into this country, 142 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 4: I definitely was correcting people when they would say Marica 143 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 4: if they were a queer or even like in like 144 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 4: stupid internet discussions, I would be like, you can't say that. 145 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 2: It wasn't undel Lous went back to Ecuador and Colombia 146 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 2: to visit family, this time as an adult that she 147 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: really started to pick up on the nuances of Colombian's lang. 148 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: Now she feels like some whereds just don't translate, or 149 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: at least they don't land the same way in English. 150 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 4: I did think that there was that one's one, but 151 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 4: I don't think there is. I think money comeans, dude. 152 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 4: It is wrapped up in homophobia and its reclamation by 153 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 4: the quick community in Land America, but like its usage 154 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 4: has become so widespread that it means dude, depending on 155 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 4: who speaks it in what contexts. 156 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: As I sat across the table from losing my apartment, 157 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 2: sipping beer and talking about familiar words in a less 158 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 2: familiar language, I felt this weird mix of relief and confusion. 159 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: It's not that I didn't know these words could still 160 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 2: be insults, but at least in our generation, they rarely 161 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: feel like slurs or like something we need to censor. 162 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: And I went to bed that night something still bugged me. Loose, who, 163 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: by all accounts, should be less familiar with Colombian's langue 164 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: than I am. New things I didn't. So I did 165 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 2: some very official research on TikTok, and what I found 166 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: was that I wasn't alone. Most Colombians really don't connect 167 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 2: pirovo the word I called my boyfriend that night, with 168 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 2: anything specific, and definitely not with the homophobics lare So 169 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: is it possible that we are all missing something here? 170 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: I had to call an. 171 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 5: Expert, since you readanizolodos who yeah, pain. 172 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: Who told me these words come from a painful place, 173 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 2: and even if it's hard to accept where they come from, 174 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 2: that part is undeniable. 175 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: Coming up after the break, the surprising history of these 176 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: slang words and how language and queerness can be more 177 00:10:49,640 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: connected than you think. Stay with us not byas hey, 178 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: we're back. Andres Pacheco Hiroon is going to now bring 179 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: us the surprising history of some of these slang slash 180 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: slurs that he's been talking about, and also an extra 181 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: finding that shows how language is closely tied to pain. 182 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to pass the mic back now to Andres, who, 183 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: as you remember, just finished speaking with his friend Louis 184 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: about all of this over some beers. 185 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 2: After my conversation with Lous, I needed more answers. I 186 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: look through papers, books, various TVs of faculty in Colombian 187 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: universities and found very little. It seemed like almost no 188 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 2: one in academia was writing about these three words so 189 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: widely used in Colombian slang, marikagon and pio. But I 190 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: got lucky and found someone on social media. 191 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 5: Is so Mari Andrea so Communica A. 192 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: Marianre Jalva is a journalist with a background in social 193 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: work and a significant following on Instagram. On her account 194 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 2: el pace, loustrelo, which loosely translates to the enlightened gang. 195 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 2: She digs into the origins of some of Columbia's most 196 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: common expressions and words. 197 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 5: In isad absoluteta ours is as it is to rastrios 198 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 5: de lri hinde las palaud. 199 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 2: Traising these words is complicated, she tells me, and there 200 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: is not a one size fits all theory here. But 201 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 2: she explained that many of the words we use now 202 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 2: have a complicated history that goes beyond homophobia, especially in 203 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: Mariandrea's hometown of Menagin. 204 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: Good evening last month, a car bomb in the Colombian 205 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: city of Medaine killed fourteen people. 206 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: Then it all ties back to Menagine's past, which is 207 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: influenced by drug trafficking. 208 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: A deal may be underway tonight for the conditions of 209 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: surrender for a fugitive cocaine lord, Pablo Escobar. 210 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: In the nineteen nineties, Magagine was one of the most 211 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 2: dangerous cities in the world. The infamous Margin cartel ran 212 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 2: its operations there, and with limited opportunities in the country, 213 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: many young people in the city joined the cartel. 214 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 5: Gangs ezami is Mana, Mika, Becamus de lin quincialot. 215 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: Mariandrea says that for those young people becoming part of 216 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: the cartel meant talking like heitman and drug dealers. 217 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 5: Le Ling was onna coosa de las fronterees, and so. 218 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: The cartel's vernacular, including the three words we've been talking about, 219 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: spread eventually even beyond Columbia, proving the power of language 220 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: to transcend borders. The more I heard Mariandrea speak, the 221 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 2: more embarrassed I felt about my ignorance. I had been 222 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: so casual with my words without being aware of the 223 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 2: history behind them. Not only can some of my words 224 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 2: be considered slurs here in the US when folks do 225 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 2: a literal translation, but what's worse is that the slurs 226 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 2: come from a time in Colombian history that many of 227 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: us feel deeply ashamed of. There are people around the 228 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: world who know very little about my country, who probably 229 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: only equate Columbia with violent Drucker tells cocaine, you know 230 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: the Netflix show. It's exhausting to hear cocaine jokes every 231 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: time I leave the country. So realizing that some of 232 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: the language I grew up with is actually rooted in 233 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: narco culture that was hard to swallow. If it sounds 234 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: like I'm working this out in real time, it's because 235 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: I kind of was during my conversation with Mari Andrea, 236 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 2: so I asked her why did these words specifically spread 237 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: so much, like why gon aria, why an sti in. 238 00:14:58,760 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 5: Fail? 239 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: It all comes down outo phonetics. Maandre says, I mean, 240 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: even if you don't speak Spanish, you probably can't tell 241 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: it sounds intense. 242 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 5: Rea. 243 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 2: The hard world oars and the many syllables in the 244 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 2: world made it a good candidate for a great sounding insult, 245 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 2: and also it's really fun to say. But around the 246 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties the word started to become a wild card, 247 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 2: used to express just about anything, with both positive and 248 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 2: negative meanings. Now, as for Marika the averid homophobics lere in. 249 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 5: Spanishalara mariica bne del diminu tillo. The laa Maria. 250 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: Marika is a variation of the name Maria or Mary, 251 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: and because it ends with an a, it sounds feminine 252 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: In Spanish. 253 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 5: Kenos in sultamos comoo in toon says jega comona for 254 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 5: my insultar a la al almost exualis so in. 255 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: At America, patriarchy date its thing, and the word turned 256 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: into a slur for gay men and trans women. But 257 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: since the nineteen eighties, the term has transformed significantly. Queer 258 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: Spanish speakers across the world have appropriated this and many 259 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: other slurs as a way to resist homophobia e c. 260 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 5: So you know Maria, like you want to. 261 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: Call me that? Nah, I'm gonna call me that. But 262 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 2: at the same time, the word also spread so widely 263 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: that it became Columbia's favorite filler word, Gayer's trade. People 264 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: use it casually. You see it all over pop culture 265 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 2: and TV shows. Online. 266 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 5: Marika said, okay, just because I Marika. 267 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: I Kimovich, after the word had already been reclaimed by 268 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: the queer community and by everyone else reading. I've been 269 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: called Marika plenty of times. Sure, sometimes it was meant 270 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 2: as an insult, but way more often it was affectionate, 271 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 2: used by my friends, by people who love me. In Colombia, 272 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 2: even straight people call each other Marica. Queer or not. 273 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: It's just normal, no big deal. What's different in the 274 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 2: US is that while some queer folks may use the 275 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: effort with each other in a playful way, it's definitely 276 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 2: not okay for other people to do the same. The 277 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: fs learn in English is still used to attack queer 278 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: men and trans folks, we'll be right back. 279 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: Hey, we're back. Here's andres with the rest of our story. 280 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: Both con and Marika have taken on positive meanings over time. 281 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 2: Linguists call this as a man change. It's when a 282 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 2: word shifts so much that it starts being used to 283 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 2: mean something completely different, you know, kind of like how 284 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: gay and English went from meaning happy to meaning queer. 285 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: But it gets trickier with piro, the word I used 286 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 2: to call out my boyfriend that night, and the one 287 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 2: that started this whole thing. This one is never a compliment. 288 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 2: It remained an insult broadly used across Columbia, and it 289 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 2: actually came from farther. 290 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 5: South, La Piro being the lunfardo Argentino from Argentina, who's 291 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 5: some intel tang wilkitrial. 292 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: Argentine tango was popular emerging in the late twentieth century, 293 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: and Mari Andrea says many words from the lower classes 294 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: of Argentina made their way into Columbia through tango music. 295 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 2: Piro was one of them. 296 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, Gina, Argentina, Piro is mosque, sustantio is verable, Piro 297 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 5: are significant comcopular in Argentina. 298 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 2: More than a noun. The word was a verb to 299 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 2: have sex, but in Colombia it became a name to 300 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: call gay men and trans women. 301 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 5: This sampieza an umbra pile a los chicos almost exualis 302 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 5: elas chicastrance. 303 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: Particularly those who were sex workers. 304 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 5: Particular mate are saying la prostitucion. 305 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 2: And even though many Colombians use it as a regular insult, 306 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: today Marie Andrea confirmed that the random websites my boyfriend 307 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 2: checked were right. It can very much be a slur. 308 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 2: I can already hear my boyfriend making the sound he 309 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 2: always makes when he knows he's right. Okay, So would 310 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 2: I use that word if I were I'm an a 311 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: lingual English speaking American. What Mariandre told me is enough 312 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 2: to make a case to stop using pile it mcleman's gay, 313 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 2: and it's used as an insult, So knock it off, 314 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 2: I asked Mari Andrea, the language expert, if Colombians should 315 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 2: knock it off and stop using pidole. If it's the 316 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 2: one word that hasn't taken on a positive meaning, it's 317 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: cultural told perhaps the right thing to do in the 318 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: US is not the right thing in Colombia when it 319 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 2: comes to certain terms. Plus and I think this is important. 320 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 2: Mari Andrea says that we may be using these slang 321 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 2: words as a way to heal our collective trauma. 322 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 5: Is tangol pao. 323 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 2: It's the way we express rage, she says, kicks. After all, 324 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 2: the country has been through a lot, the longest civil 325 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: war in the Western Hemisphere, and the cocaine cartels have 326 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: left their mark. So what if the way we are 327 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 2: collectively coping with pain is through our vocabulary emotional pain 328 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 2: but also physical pain. I mean, there's a reason why 329 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 2: we all ship or fuck when we hit ourselves. If 330 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 2: we don't, it kind of feels like we're not releasing 331 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: that pain. Mariandre told me that some studies suggest that 332 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 2: swearing can actually increase our tolerance to physical pain. 333 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 5: Ways lambaso no past. 334 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 2: Major language is how we cope with the world around us. 335 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 5: OS's suna for my tramitars. 336 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 2: I'll be honest. After trying to find clarity in these 337 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: conversations with Jeffrey, with Luz and Andrea, I ended up 338 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 2: feeling even more confused, like I have more doubts now 339 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 2: about what's okay to say and what isn't. Choosing my 340 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 2: words feels like watching the FIFA World Cup. It's Columbia 341 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 2: versus the US. I've got my yellow jersey on, screaming 342 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: goal at the top of my lungs every time Columbia scores. 343 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 2: But somehow I'm standing on the US side of the field, 344 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 2: surrounded by red, white and blue, and I kind of 345 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 2: want to cheer when they score two. But once felt 346 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: so right, now feels different, not exactly wrong, not exactly 347 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 2: right either. Lose. My trans friend who made me realize 348 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 2: I was ignorant about the history of these words, probably gets. 349 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 4: That you can't translate bag. You could, sure, but it's 350 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 4: not going to mean the exact same things. And I 351 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 4: think for those reasons, it makes little sense to assign 352 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 4: these like global north or English speaking like sensibilities towards 353 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 4: that don't mean exact same thing. 354 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: Words don't always behave, they shift, they echo, They carry 355 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 2: weight in one place and then lose it in another. 356 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: Language is a way to navigate who we are immigrants, 357 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 2: bi linguals, people always a little here in the little there, 358 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 2: and when you add Queerness into the equation, things can 359 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 2: get a little more confusing. And I really didn't see 360 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 2: that until I talked with my friend Louse. 361 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 4: I came into my queerness in English, and so for 362 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 4: so many years it was much more natural for me 363 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 4: to talk about my queerness in English than it wasn't Spanish. 364 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 4: I'm dating somebody new that's Mexican and we only talk 365 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 4: in Spanish, and they have a similar trajectory where they 366 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 4: moved to the US and they came into their queerness here, 367 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 4: and we talk in Spanish like ninety nine percent of 368 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 4: the time except when we're having sex. Because we came 369 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 4: into our sexual maturity and our queerness in English. It 370 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 4: feels more comfortable, It feels more natural to have sex 371 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,479 Speaker 4: in English, and we're so like distraught about it, We're like, 372 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 4: why the fuck can't we have sex in Spanish. 373 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: Perhaps this is about much more than just semantics and translations. 374 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 2: Perhaps being in a relationship with an American man in 375 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: the US also means I'm experiencing a different kind of 376 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 2: queer sensibility through English. I've gotten to know more about 377 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: my queer community since moving to the US, And what 378 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: has made this even better is that Jeffrey has gotten 379 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: to know mine. 380 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 3: I want to learn about your culture. I'm trying to 381 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 3: contextualize it with my experience here and it's very interesting 382 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 3: and sometimes uncomfortable, but it creates like interesting conversations, and 383 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 3: it's like a lot of it is learning about each other, 384 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 3: which also includes our language, and it's fun. It makes 385 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 3: it exciting to talk with you. 386 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: I wonder if the more I speak English, the more 387 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: I'm learning about how other queer people relate to hurtful words. 388 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 2: Maybe language is also changing how I understand my own queerness, 389 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 2: what feels right to say and what doesn't, and I'm 390 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 2: not figuring it out on my own. 391 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 3: I feel like this Nigraney is hitting me a lot 392 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,959 Speaker 3: faster than every other drink that I had today. 393 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 2: Queerness and language are things we're constantly shaping, remixing, reclaiming. 394 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: So maybe this isn't about who wins the debate. It's 395 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 2: maybe about having it. It's about trying to understand the 396 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: world around us through those messy and queer translations. 397 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Andres Pacheco Hiron and it 398 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: was edited by our managing editor Fernanda Ichavari. It was 399 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: mixed by JJ Krubin and Gabriel Levyez, fact checking by 400 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: Dasha Sandoval. Special thanks to Say Quevedo, Emily Moltaire and 401 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: Jeffrey che The rest of the Latino USA team includes 402 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: Roxanna Guire, Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis, Victoria Estrada, Renaldo Leanos Junior, 403 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: Stephanie Lebau, Andrea Lopez Cruzado, Luis Luna Door, mar Marquez, 404 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: Jurieta Martinelli, Marta Martinez, Monica Morles Garcia and Nancy Trujillo. 405 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: Benni Lee Ramirez, Maria Garcia and I are co executive 406 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: producers and I'm your host Maria ino Josa. Latino USA 407 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: is part of Iheart's Mike Ududa podcast network. Executive producers 408 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: at iHeart are Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana. Join us 409 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: again on our next episode. In the meantime, I'll see 410 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: you on all of our social media. And remember, dear listener, 411 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: when you say you love Futuro Media, when you say 412 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: you love Latino USA, yours one way to show it, 413 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: and you get to listen to our programs and free 414 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: join Futuro Plus a lot of cheese, may and behind 415 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: the scenes, and you're going to support the recording that 416 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: you love. So join Futplus. 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