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Speaker 1: Attention, Chicago and Toronto. We're coming to see you guys soon,

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Speaker 1: so we better hurry up and buy your tickets because

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Speaker 1: they're going fast. Yeah, man, Chicago at the Hairs Theater July.

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Speaker 1: We've actually sold a lot of tickets now, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: guys listen, thank you, thanks for stepping up. In Toronto

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Speaker 1: at the Danforth Music Hall the next night, July. It

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Speaker 1: may be sold out by now. Yeah. Well, there's only

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Speaker 1: one way to find out. Go on to s y

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Speaker 1: s K live dot com and you'll find links to

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Speaker 1: the ticket sites and all the show info you need,

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Speaker 1: and we will see you soon. Welcome to Stuff You

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Speaker 1: Should Know, a production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. There's Chuck. There's Josh.

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Speaker 1: You got to get used to this, Chuck. We will eventually.

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Speaker 1: It's the new normal. Yep. And this is Stuff You

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Speaker 1: Should Know. The I Can't Believe this happened edition one

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Speaker 1: of many, one of many. Yeah, this sparked off a

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Speaker 1: lot of ideas too. Oh yeah, yeah, like how the

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Speaker 1: Phillies work? No, what's up with the Philly fanatic? That's

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Speaker 1: the green one right, Yeah, that's a great character. So

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Speaker 1: let's dispense with all that. Okay, Yeah, there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a long one, so let's just jump in. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: back in and May, Philadelphia Police Department became the first

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Speaker 1: and to this point only police department to drop a

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Speaker 1: bomb on American soil. No police department has ever bombed

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Speaker 1: anything in the history of America, but they did, and

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Speaker 1: they happened to bomb a house that was occupied at

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Speaker 1: the time with thirteen people, seven of which were children.

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Speaker 1: And the people in this house were members of an

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Speaker 1: organization called Move m O V E all caps, but

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Speaker 1: it's not an acronym UM. And they did this because

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Speaker 1: MOVE had made themselves quite a nuisance in the neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: to say the least. And there was basically, by this

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Speaker 1: time in a bitter feud between MOVE in the Philadelphia

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Speaker 1: Police Department, and on May thirteenth, that came to a

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Speaker 1: fiery and tragic and it's nice set up. You should

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Speaker 1: have music playing or something. Hopefully Josh will do that,

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Speaker 1: because God knows, Jerry's not going to not anywhere anywhere,

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Speaker 1: knows where she is. So you want to go back

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Speaker 1: in time and talk a little bit about MOVE in

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Speaker 1: their origins and then go forward in time. I would

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Speaker 1: like to isn't that what you said? Okay, So MOVE

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Speaker 1: is still around UM at the times over the years,

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Speaker 1: they've been called a cult, They've been called UM, a

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Speaker 1: black liberation movement, back to Earth, a terrorist group, animal

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Speaker 1: rights group. There are all these things to a certain

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Speaker 1: degree here and there UM. Although the leader one Mr

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Speaker 1: Vincent Leppard, who everyone, by the way, if you hear

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Speaker 1: us say the name so and so Africa. Once you

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Speaker 1: become a member of MOVE you take on the last

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Speaker 1: name of Africa, which even though they weren't strictly a

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Speaker 1: group for African Americans, they had white people early on

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Speaker 1: in Puerto Ricans. They definitely kind of got that wrapped

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Speaker 1: a little bit more because of the Black Power movement

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Speaker 1: and the fact that the leader was black. Changed his

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Speaker 1: name to Africa and asked everyone else to change their

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Speaker 1: last name to Africa. But although not legally, I don't

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Speaker 1: think no no UM, but ultimately it was well, they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have done it legally because that's part of the system,

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Speaker 1: and the system was one of the things they were against.

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Speaker 1: There were basically two prongs to John Africa's philosophy. One

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Speaker 1: was that basically all life is important and equally important. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So there was a lot of animal rights stuff. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of not eating meat um ostensibly um.

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Speaker 1: It was there vegetarianism in there. There there was, although

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Speaker 1: they weren't strict vegetarians. Um. Yes, but there was an

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Speaker 1: animal rights and protection in the sanctity of life. And

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Speaker 1: then the second was that the um the system as

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Speaker 1: they called it, was inherently flawed because everything that was

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Speaker 1: created by humans was flawed and therefore not not only

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Speaker 1: should not be used, but the whole system should be

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Speaker 1: taken down and replaced with a much more natural, um

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Speaker 1: animalistic philosophy in way of life. Yeah. So that includes electricity,

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Speaker 1: that includes like cooking meat. Um, like these kids ate

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Speaker 1: raw chicken, believe it or not. You know, the kids

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Speaker 1: who were raised in the move movement. Uh. And this

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Speaker 1: is um. This story would make a lot more sense

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Speaker 1: if this was on like, uh, some deserted island and

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Speaker 1: someone was moving there to start this utopian society on

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Speaker 1: an island. This is a very interesting story, and that

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Speaker 1: it happened in a densely populated area of row houses

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Speaker 1: in West Philadelphia, not where you would I can't not

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Speaker 1: think I remember I hear West Philadelphia. I thought of

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Speaker 1: it too. Um, it's when you go back and look

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Speaker 1: at the footage. And by the way, there's a great

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Speaker 1: documentary called Let It Burn, Let the Fire Burn that

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Speaker 1: you should pay for online. I did. That's good on

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Speaker 1: Amazon Prime, and uh, well I'm a Prime member, so

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Speaker 1: so am I I still had to pay to rent

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Speaker 1: it though, because Amazon is part of the system. That's right. Uh,

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Speaker 1: where was that going? Uh you were saying that it

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Speaker 1: would make more sense on a deserted island than in

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Speaker 1: a densely populated neighborhood and Philadelphia. Yeah, so when you're

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Speaker 1: watching this documentary and there's so much footage, Um, it's

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Speaker 1: crazy to see this house, this row house, uh, set

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Speaker 1: up with um, you know, farm animals at times in

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Speaker 1: the front yard, heavily fenced in, fortified like a fortress. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: sometimes people standing outside with guns. Um. Even though, as

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Speaker 1: we'll see, are these guns were later found out to

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Speaker 1: be not capable of firing bullets, which means, well, I

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Speaker 1: guess it's still a gun, but it means it's not

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Speaker 1: a weapon. It's a club. Yeah sort of. Um, but

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Speaker 1: at the very least, it's just it's an odd setting

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Speaker 1: for this story. It is, And when you watch that documentary,

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Speaker 1: that house sticks out like a sore thumb like this.

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Speaker 1: They had Amish people probably an hour and a half

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Speaker 1: away from this, doing the same thing out in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the country. Not the exact same thing, but

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. But you can't get a

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Speaker 1: good cheese steak in Amish country, much less a good

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Speaker 1: raw one. You can get good stick candy because they

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Speaker 1: know what they're doing with that stuff. Nice furniture. Butter sure,

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Speaker 1: what was it rum Springer where they get to go

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Speaker 1: crazy or whatever and see if they want to live

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Speaker 1: the Amish life? I think, yeah, I think that was it.

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Speaker 1: That was a good one. It's a good time ago.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, it's a very interesting setting for this story. Um,

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Speaker 1: it got caught up in or maybe unfairly pegged as

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Speaker 1: black liberation, like I said, but sort of because of

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Speaker 1: the time in which it happened, which was in the

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Speaker 1: in the seventies and early eighties when the Black Panther

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Speaker 1: Party was in power. That was a former Black Panther

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Speaker 1: that later would join the move movement. Yes, but from

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Speaker 1: what I saw in that documentary, that person was interviewed

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Speaker 1: and he makes it sound like rather than bringing the

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Speaker 1: Black Panther ideas to left, he he took on moves

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Speaker 1: ideals rather than the discarded the Black Panther's idea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think he was disillusioned with the Black Panthers because

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Speaker 1: of the violence. And it should be pointed out that

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Speaker 1: Um that Africa's whole thing was was his whole thing

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Speaker 1: was non violence. But it wasn't like that was at

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Speaker 1: the forefront of like his everyday talkings, because they very

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Speaker 1: aggressively and very obscenely blasted their message through these loudspeakers

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Speaker 1: attached to this row house, which was a real problem

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Speaker 1: in this neighborhood for everyone this you know, black neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: They didn't want him there either. No, that's don't drop

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Speaker 1: a bottom up on him, which is what one of them,

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Speaker 1: being interviewed very clearly was like, we didn't want this

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Speaker 1: to happen, but you know, they were a threat to

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Speaker 1: our well being here in the neighborhood. Yeah, And they

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Speaker 1: were also deliberately provocative. They they purposefully made a nuisance

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Speaker 1: side of themselves because part of moves Um philosophy was

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Speaker 1: waking everybody else up and doing it in a really

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Speaker 1: aggressive hostile way. Supposedly, some neighbors reported that they were

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Speaker 1: directly threatened by this group, which is a big problem too.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's definitely a couple of steps up from um.

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Speaker 1: Agitating or aggravating people. Threatening them is different, sure, but

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Speaker 1: at the very least, you know, imagine being a neighbor

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Speaker 1: who has lived in this house for twenty years and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden there's this organization living there, and

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Speaker 1: at three in the morning, it's just blasting out. You know,

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Speaker 1: these mf ers and that are in charge or F

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Speaker 1: and this and F and that, and like I felt

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Speaker 1: sorry for these citizens. You know, is a lot of

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Speaker 1: empathy like to be dispersed among many parts of this story, yes,

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Speaker 1: but the story also this Basically, this story has two

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Speaker 1: types of people in it, um villains and innocence. That's

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Speaker 1: virtually here. There's Almos. There's one hero that you can

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Speaker 1: point to, and he doesn't even appear in this article.

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Speaker 1: He was in the documentary UM, which we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: him for a minute later. But it's mostly just people,

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Speaker 1: the adults acting badly and the children or the people

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Speaker 1: in the neighborhood who are innocent bystanders or pawns. In

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Speaker 1: this whole thing. Victims for sure, for sure, because when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about like blaring your your philosophy and a

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Speaker 1: very hostile, um foul mouthed way. If you see the

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Speaker 1: pictures of the house, like those loudspeakers that they have

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Speaker 1: it like stock car races or whatever, that's what they

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Speaker 1: had posted out on the house. It wasn't just some

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Speaker 1: with the bullhorn or like that that umlwaukie talkie thing

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Speaker 1: that Homer Simpson had at the yard sale. And you

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Speaker 1: can hear this along the whole block in every direction. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and if you were anywhere near them, if your house

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Speaker 1: was next door, even a couple of doors down, you

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Speaker 1: heard them night and day. And it was a real problem. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So we should back up a little bit and give

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Speaker 1: a little bit of the background here. Before the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighties happened and they moved into the second house on

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Speaker 1: O Sage Avenue. U Um, they loved at a different

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Speaker 1: house in the late seventies, and there was a different

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Speaker 1: mayor in Philadelphia at this time, Mayor Rizzo, who was

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Speaker 1: a scumbag, tough talking like, yeah, he was a scumbag,

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Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I saw archival footage of the man

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Speaker 1: and he was strongman, scumbag. Yeah, he was one of

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Speaker 1: these guys, you know, and we'll see what happened here.

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Speaker 1: It was, uh, he was not in charge anymore, but

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Speaker 1: it was remnants from that attitude basically that he laid

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Speaker 1: down in the city, which is like he was in charge.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm talking about the bombing. Um. So

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Speaker 1: in seventy eight, there was a standoff with the police.

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Speaker 1: We had talked about the guns earlier. It was later

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Speaker 1: found out that these guns weren't capable of firing. They

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Speaker 1: didn't know that at the time, but at the very least,

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Speaker 1: the cops over acted or overreacted at the UH at

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Speaker 1: the declaration of Mayor Rizzo, and there was shooting. There

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Speaker 1: was an officer that was shot and killed and it

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Speaker 1: was just a really bad scene. So even just a

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Speaker 1: little bit before that too, there was UM there was

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Speaker 1: a confrontation between MOVE and the Philadelphia police where one

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Speaker 1: of the MOVE members babies, like a two month old

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Speaker 1: um died yeah, of and the MOVE members said the

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Speaker 1: cops did this like this, like this baby died from

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Speaker 1: this confrontation with the police, So like that kicks that off.

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Speaker 1: The police eventually raid the Move house in and one

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Speaker 1: of the officers get shot and killed in this raid,

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Speaker 1: and so you've got some real bad blood brewing between

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Speaker 1: these two groups. Yeah. And during that raid, Delbert Africa,

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Speaker 1: one of the members was and that you can see

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Speaker 1: the footage of this, It was all captured on camera. Uh,

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Speaker 1: just beaten on the street while laying on the sidewalk

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Speaker 1: by these cops while he was surrendering. Yeah. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: to say that there was bad blood is sort of

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Speaker 1: an understatement. It was you had on one side, a

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Speaker 1: um what you could at least define as a public

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Speaker 1: nuisance in this neighborhood. You had on this other side,

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Speaker 1: these the zealous mayor who just wanted to get rid

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Speaker 1: of them period. Not like let's meet and let's talk,

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Speaker 1: let's see if we can all work together. Uh. They were.

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Speaker 1: They were one hundred thousand percent at odds with one another.

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Speaker 1: So the police officer that died, Um, the Move side

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Speaker 1: said we didn't shoot that guy. It was friendly fire

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Speaker 1: that got him. The Philadelphia Police Department didn't agree with

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Speaker 1: that story. And so I'm like a personal level, like

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Speaker 1: not just an organizational level, but to a cop, the

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Speaker 1: cops hated Move and these people just continued on in

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia and actually stepped up there, um, making themselves a

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Speaker 1: public nuisance. Uh, because nine of their members were arrested

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Speaker 1: for the murder of that police officer, Yes, and sent

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Speaker 1: to jail for decades years is what they're each sentence for. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about what happened to them towards the end,

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Speaker 1: but so so just to kind of like like just

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Speaker 1: paint this one last stroke on this this picture we're

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Speaker 1: painting here. The cops had a vendetta against MOVE because

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Speaker 1: one of their own was killed during the siege, and

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Speaker 1: MOVE had a vendetta against the cops because nine of

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Speaker 1: their people were put in jail, one of them was beaten,

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Speaker 1: and a baby had died on their side. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's take a break and we'll come back write it

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Speaker 1: for this and talk more about what happened. Alright. So

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Speaker 1: whether or not this was a cult is uh. Some

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Speaker 1: people debate that. John Africa is very much on record

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Speaker 1: saying it's an organization. Um is that relevant? I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. I don't either. Um, like it's just an

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Speaker 1: attempt to discredit them, oh, to call them occult. Huh, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's all we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm not like criticizing you or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. I'm just saying, like when people toss it

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Speaker 1: around like oh they were a cult. Yeah, there there

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Speaker 1: were some like characteristics that that you could say, well,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of cult like or whatever. Let's put it

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Speaker 1: this way. If it was on a deserted island, then

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Speaker 1: I think people would have straight up called them ac cult.

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Speaker 1: The fact that it was in the neighborhood and West

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia made it seem a lot less, so I hear you.

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Speaker 1: But if he was like, come here and live on

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Speaker 1: this island with me, then it would have straight up

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Speaker 1: been called a cult. Let me rephrase what I was saying.

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Speaker 1: I don't dispute that they may have been a cult,

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Speaker 1: but again it's that, well, does that mean that they

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Speaker 1: should have had a bomb dropped on them? I don't

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Speaker 1: think anyone thinks that. Okay, So uh, Like I said

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Speaker 1: that there were kids there that were um forced to

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Speaker 1: eat raw fish, raw chicken, um. The adults could cook

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Speaker 1: their meat, which was there was definitely some double standards

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Speaker 1: going on there. Their rationale was that our bodies are

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Speaker 1: used to this, but we want to raise you you

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Speaker 1: pure from the start, so you're only gonna eat raw foods. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They had a lot of exceptions, not just that, um,

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Speaker 1: like the anti technology thing where they had like a

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Speaker 1: wood burning stove for heat and that was it. No,

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Speaker 1: they used candles instead of lightbulbs, that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: But they also had phones and they drove cars. So

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of um, weird exceptions in in

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Speaker 1: loopholes and holes in general and John Africa's guidelines as

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Speaker 1: he called them. Yeah. As for one of the more uh,

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Speaker 1: the the only child that survived this experience, Birdie Africa,

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Speaker 1: Michael Ward. Uh, he said, I'm still afraid of them,

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Speaker 1: of move. Some of the things that went on there.

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Speaker 1: I can't get out of my head. Bad things. I

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Speaker 1: haven't told anyone except for my father, but I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you this. I didn't like being there. They said it

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Speaker 1: was a family, but a family isn't something where you're

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Speaker 1: forced to stay and you don't want to uh. And

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Speaker 1: his contention was that the kids were always trying to

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Speaker 1: get out of there and run away. They were just

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Speaker 1: too little to know how two little and you know, naked,

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Speaker 1: they were naked, they were malnourished. Um, they were uh.

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Speaker 1: Like the only toys they had they had to hide

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Speaker 1: because they weren't supposed to have them because it's technology

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Speaker 1: and human made unsanitary. Yeah, there was, um you know,

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Speaker 1: part of part of what move was into is growing

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Speaker 1: their own food, so they would compost like in the

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Speaker 1: alley behind the house or on the roof or something

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Speaker 1: like that. They had they built an animal shelter in

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Speaker 1: the alley. So um there was a lot of really

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Speaker 1: um uh like not okay conditions to raise kids and

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Speaker 1: let alone like adults to live in but raising children. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was. There was some really bad decisions and choices

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Speaker 1: are bad outcomes from some of John Africa's philosophy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's weird because it's like at the heart of this,

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Speaker 1: it's this back to nature movement. You know, where you

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Speaker 1: want them to be on a deserted island, So not

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Speaker 1: even a deserted island, like go out into like there's

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Speaker 1: there's country side not too far outside of Philadelphia. It

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Speaker 1: is a little weird. It is. It's very strange because

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Speaker 1: on one hand, I'm like, yeah, this animal rights group

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Speaker 1: and they're back to nature and they're assuing the things

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Speaker 1: of man. But they're doing it the most like aggressive,

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Speaker 1: antagonistic way possible in the middle of the city. It's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't I didn't know what to think about any

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Speaker 1: of this except obviously you don't go in there and

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Speaker 1: fire bomb the place, right. It's like the one thing

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Speaker 1: I was clear on, right, you don't start a war

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Speaker 1: in the middle of a neighborhood, which is what happened. Basically, Um,

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Speaker 1: the neighbors wanted to move out, they fired filed a

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Speaker 1: bunch of complaints over the years to get them shut down,

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Speaker 1: and the city didn't really know what to do at

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Speaker 1: this point. Um. At this point there was a different mayor,

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Speaker 1: Um Mayor Good. So this was the first black mayor

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Speaker 1: of Philadelphia who actually was elected on this reform ticket,

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Speaker 1: basically to get rid of Rizzo, get rid of the corruption,

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Speaker 1: the racism that Rizzo had had and as administration had

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Speaker 1: fostered because he was police chief first and then became mayor.

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Speaker 1: And he basically after that nine raid. Um, there's footage

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Speaker 1: of him just basically hopped up and boasting about how

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Speaker 1: how militarized the Chicago p D was now, how like

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Speaker 1: they could I think he actually said, yeah, we could

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Speaker 1: go down to Cuba and take them if we wanted

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Speaker 1: to right now just really like boasting about this, not like,

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Speaker 1: oh man, you know this was this is a tragedy

331
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Speaker 1: or whatever, even however you want to say it, like

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Speaker 1: he was boasting like come on, who's next kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: and this is this was the mayor at the time.

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Speaker 1: So Wilson Good comes along as like not that we're

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Speaker 1: going to take a different tact here and try to

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Speaker 1: promote more unity. Then he was actually pretty successful in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways in that respect as far as

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Speaker 1: the city officials go. I really kind of like Mayor

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Speaker 1: Good because he took responsibility for it. Yeah, even stuff

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Speaker 1: he didn't do just because he was the mayor, he

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Speaker 1: he put himself in as accountable. All right, So should

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00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 1: we fast forward? Yes, the stage is set. We know

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Speaker 1: what happened in the seventies. We know the relationship between

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Speaker 1: this neighborhood with this group and this group with the

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Speaker 1: city and the cops, and so uh, they decide that

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Speaker 1: they are going to um extract every person from that house.

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Speaker 1: That was the plan, as we are going to remove

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Speaker 1: the move organization from the house on o Sage Avenue. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In this article says they didn't have a plan that's

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Speaker 1: not true. They had a plan that just was not

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Speaker 1: executed well and went really pear shaped really fast. And

352
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Speaker 1: then they didn't have a plan. But the original plan

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Speaker 1: was to h They had built the move organization had

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Speaker 1: built it this pretty fortified bunker on top of their building.

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Speaker 1: As far as homemade bunkers go, not bad, which gave

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Speaker 1: them a supreme tactical advantage. You know anything about war,

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Speaker 1: you know, higher ground is is always going to win

358
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Speaker 1: out if you're not always designed to castle or something.

359
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,880
Speaker 1: You know, castle designers they know, or mongers. Uh. So

360
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Speaker 1: the idea was to create a diversion on the roof, uh,

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Speaker 1: in which time police officers or swat and everybody would

362
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: um would go inside and forcibly remove people by any

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Speaker 1: means necessary than mayor goods words. But the first the

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Speaker 1: first part of that was water cannons and tear gas.

365
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Speaker 1: And they were very surprised when these water cannons that

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Speaker 1: were just I think they shot like a thousand gallons

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Speaker 1: a second or some crazy amount of water just left

368
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Speaker 1: them on. Yes, two of them shoot like and they

369
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Speaker 1: fully expected to basically take most of this house down

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Speaker 1: like it was a brick row home. UM. But they

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Speaker 1: expected it to to take the non brick parts off,

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Speaker 1: including that that structure on top, that that lookout. Um.

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Speaker 1: And they were very very surprised when two things didn't happen,

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Speaker 1: when that structuring come down, despite the water cans being

375
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Speaker 1: directed at it for hours, and the people not coming out,

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Speaker 1: despite tear gas being shot into the house. And that is,

377
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Speaker 1: like you said earlier, when their plan went went to

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Speaker 1: the to the birds. Yeah, toilet, Sure went down the toilet,

379
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: and they said, well, what do we do now, Like

380
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Speaker 1: our whole plan doesn't work. I've got an idea. Let's

381
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,959
Speaker 1: start shooting at the house instead. Yeah. So what they

382
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Speaker 1: didn't know this whole time was that they were all

383
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Speaker 1: hiding in a basement garage. So all of this water

384
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Speaker 1: raining down on the roof wasn't I don't probably wasn't

385
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Speaker 1: even getting to them, probably, or maybe it's not like, uh,

386
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Speaker 1: it's not like they were up to their necks in

387
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Speaker 1: water in the basement and like drowning or anything like that. No,

388
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: but they later said that the tear gas was everywhere. Um,

389
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Speaker 1: but apparently it wasn't potent enough. Maybe they used expired

390
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 1: stuff and we should step it back one step, chuck

391
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: before this raid actually started. They went house to house

392
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Speaker 1: to the neighbors and said, you guys, grab all your

393
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Speaker 1: clothes huge, we need you gone for twenty four hours

394
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Speaker 1: because we're about to do what you guys wanted us

395
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: to do for years. We're gonna do it, so you

396
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: need to get out here. They towed trucks from most

397
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Speaker 1: Age Avenue. They towed every car they had. The like,

398
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: the gas shut off, the electricity shut off. There was

399
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 1: a siege. Yeah, they basically tried to just vacate the

400
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Speaker 1: block and they did. Yeah, and they did it. I mean,

401
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Speaker 1: I think some people stayed when they shouldn't have. But

402
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 1: it's like with any evacuation. They got as many people

403
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Speaker 1: out of there as possible. They're like, you'll be back

404
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: in your house tomorrow. Okay. So, so the the whole block,

405
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Speaker 1: and like a couple of blocks, a couple of streets

406
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: on either side are cleared. The water has been um used,

407
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: it's not working, the the tear gas is not working.

408
00:23:53,359 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: So supposedly the first shots came from the house, but everybody,

409
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: all witnesses, cops, firefighters, news people say that the first

410
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: shots were automatic fire. It's been conclusively proven that no

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Speaker 1: one in the move house had an automatic weapon. So

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00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: if the first shots were automatic, then that means the

413
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: cops fired first. And that's what people seem to believe

414
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: is that the cops started this. Yeah, and a lot

415
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: of this documentary it's really compelling because it's footage from

416
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: the commission afterward and you get like the real deal testimony,

417
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Speaker 1: first person testimony from all the major players, including the

418
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Speaker 1: police chief what was his name, Gregory Sambor? Yeah, Sambor?

419
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Speaker 1: Who was He identified it as automatic, like his sworn testimony,

420
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,239
Speaker 1: said it was automatic weapons. And they're like, well, how

421
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: do you know? And he's like, I know what an

422
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: automatic weapon sounds like, right, And they're like, well, what

423
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: move didn't have automatic weapons? He's like, oh, I don't

424
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Speaker 1: know about that. Yeah, He's like, I don't know how

425
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: to explain that. Then, but they fired first. He just

426
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: kind of stuck to his guns every single time. Yeah,

427
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: he was a piece of work of self. He was

428
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: definitely in the cut from the same cloth as uh Maririzzo,

429
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: I think. So. Yeah, So they decided to start shooting

430
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: at this point, because regardless of who shot first, it

431
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: becomes like Vietnam on the city block. All of a sudden,

432
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: and it's not like, I mean, they cleared it out.

433
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: But when you see this news footage, I mean there's

434
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 1: people everywhere watching their news cameras in and anchors everywhere

435
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: on the streets like, oh, like we should get behind

436
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: the car now because it's raining bullets everywhere. It's just

437
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: freaky to see this happening in like a city block

438
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: in the United States. Yeah, the cop eighties. The cops

439
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: later on in estimated that they fired about ten rounds.

440
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: They ran out of bullets. Yeah, they had to bring

441
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: him more because yeah, that this car pulls up there

442
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: like a car, a police car is just rushed into

443
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: the scene and it's like from a movie. The trunk

444
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: pops and it's just full of bullets, just for because

445
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: they ran out of bullets. Yeah, so they kept shooting

446
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: at this house. And here's the thing. Bear in mind,

447
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: they're shooting ten thousand rounds of ammunition at a house

448
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: occupied by three people, seven of which are children. Everyone knows.

449
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: Everyone knows that there were seven children in that house. Yeah,

450
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: it's not like the cops were unaware. Uh, everyone knew

451
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: that there were children in this house. It was part

452
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 1: of it. It was part of the concern of the

453
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: neighbors that there were children being raised in this house,

454
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: and the cops acted on the information from confidential informants

455
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: who fully informed them that there were children in this house.

456
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: So that's step one. They fired ten thousand rounds at

457
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: a house where they knew that there were seven children. Alright,

458
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: so nothing is changing though, they're still not bringing people

459
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: out of this house. I'll bet they were like, I

460
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: can't believe this, and the structure was still intact on top.

461
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: I'm surprised they didn't think they were dead. Yeah. I

462
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: would have thought at some point they would have been like, well,

463
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure we probably killed everyone, let's just go in there.

464
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: Uh Yeah, I wonder, Yeah, I wonder, because if they

465
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,719
Speaker 1: were all crowded, crowded down in the basement garage, they

466
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: couldn't have been firing back after a certain point in time. Yeah,

467
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I mean they said part of the

468
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: problem was, uh, the tear gas, so they couldn't send

469
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: cops in there because it was flooded with tear gas.

470
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: And then I think they said the um, well, no

471
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: that this this comes later, the steam, so put a

472
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: pin in the steam. So at some point someone on

473
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: the bomb squad apparently says to the police chief, or

474
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: it gets to the police chief, Hey, he was really

475
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 1: you know, the chief was really worried about that bunker

476
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 1: in that tactical advantage. So someone from the bomb squad said,

477
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 1: why don't we drop a bomb on the roof and

478
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: get rid of that bunker? And an officer named William

479
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: Klein suggested, and they said it, okay, let's do that.

480
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: Good idea. Klein, what do we think a helicopter and

481
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,479
Speaker 1: a bomb. They're like, well, we've got both. So even

482
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: as late as the inquiry that they held, they characterized

483
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: it as a Tovex bomb, And to Vex is a

484
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: water based gelatinous at explosive um that that is used

485
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: I think in mining and demolition and stuff like that.

486
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: But it can be purchased. Yes. Yeah. It later came

487
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: out that in addition to the to vex, the the

488
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: bomb disposal guy made a bomb with C four plastic explosives,

489
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: which is not commercially available, which means that we'll see

490
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: later the Philadelphia Police Department should not have had this stuff. Yeah,

491
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: I mean we should just go ahead and say how

492
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: they got it? Why not? Well, I was trying to

493
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: save it for with a little flair for the dramatic,

494
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: but you go ahead. Well, uh, the FBI gave it

495
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: to him secretly. Yeah, the FBI had been giving um

496
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: little bits of C four here and there to police

497
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: departments apparently like the blow doors off of stuff to

498
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: train bomb sniffing dogs teach them how to use it.

499
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: But then the FBI use that excuse for a little while,

500
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: then later came out and said we actually like brought

501
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: them a bunch of C four, like thirty blocks of

502
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: C four in January, a few months before were this

503
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: this raid, the siege. But still during the time when

504
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: um the like move people were being negotiated with to

505
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: leave on their own. Yeah, because that was happening this

506
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: whole time. They would have community leaders on the bullhorn

507
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: trying to talk them into coming out. They did not

508
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: have a professional negotiator on the scene, which that's a

509
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: huge yet. Yeah, that they never meant for anyone to

510
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: come out. Yeah, but at any rate, they drop a

511
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: bomb a I think it was a they said, a

512
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: four pound bomb from a satchel with a forty five

513
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: second fuse. This is all on camera, like you literally

514
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: in this documentary see the helicopter flyover, drop the satchel

515
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, I love that. You did a

516
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: running motion, you know in helicopters runs, and they flew

517
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: out of there and uh kaboom and West Philadelphia, a

518
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: bomb explodes on top of the building and a smallish

519
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: fire starts. There was there like five that they dropped

520
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: the bomb five ten, I think, and the smallest fire

521
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: took a couple of minutes for it to to become

522
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: a parent that it had caught fire. But supposedly there

523
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: was gasoline in the um what are we calling that

524
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: thing the bunker? The bunker? They're supposedly gasoline in the bunker.

525
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: But I really like they the police dropped the bomb

526
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: on a building that they knew that people were in,

527
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: seven of which were children, Okay, And supposedly the reason

528
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: that they did this was to to get rid of

529
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: that bunker. Like that bunker. The police chief did not

530
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: like that bunker standing still and wanted to get rid

531
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: of it. The bomb didn't do anything to the bunker.

532
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: That was a strong bunker. It was um. The timelines important.

533
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: So at is when they dropped the bomb at five uh,

534
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: someone asked the fire department if they should turn on

535
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: the you know, they've been deluging this thing with water

536
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: all day long until there's a fire and then they

537
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: turn it off, which was you know, it's not ironic

538
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,959
Speaker 1: because it was very purposeful, but um, it definitely stings.

539
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: More so they said, uh, not to turn them on

540
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: by six o'clock. So this is thirty three minutes later, Um,

541
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: Mayor Good is watching this on TV in his office.

542
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: He phones it in and says, you know, let's let's

543
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: put this fire out now. He ordered the fire to

544
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: be put out. Yeah, thirty three minutes later. And this

545
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: is where it gets a little hinky because this was

546
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: given to police Chief Sambor, and under testimony, Sambor says

547
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: that he relayed that to the fire chief. He said,

548
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: he said that the fire chief was there. He did

549
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: not say he related to it. Well yeah, I mean

550
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: he got very dodgy with how he worded it. But

551
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: the fire chief Um basically on testimony, said that's what

552
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: he said, and he's like, I categorically denied that I

553
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: ever got in order to start those water cannons, or

554
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: that he was even aware that Good made that call

555
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: a phone call or called the order. So basically, the

556
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: fire chiefs said, the bucks stopped with Sambor, and Sambor

557
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: the police chief decided to let that fire burn, that's right,

558
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: because he thought, not defending him, but he thought the

559
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: fire would then take down the bunker and remove that advantage.

560
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: Other people contend, and they asked him in the deposition

561
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: or in the in the hearing, no, you've kind of

562
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: really wanted to use the fire as a weapon. He

563
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: got real salty you about that. He did. He said

564
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: a fire can't be a weapon. Basically said about flamethrowers.

565
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: He goes, I hadn't thought about flamethrowers. But still, all right,

566
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: so this is six thirty flames are uh, it is

567
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: clearly out of hand. They waited way too long. That

568
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: was the thing that got me was it was obvious

569
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: from what Sandbar was saying, if the documentary is accurate,

570
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: from what Sandbar was saying, that when he was saying

571
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: that we need to let the bunker burn, still by

572
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: this time, the entire top floor was a conflagration. Yeah,

573
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: I mean it's on the news. So so that whole

574
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: thing doesn't hold water at all, and it would lend

575
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: support to the idea that he was using it as

576
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: a weapon to burn the people out. I'm sure he was.

577
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure he thought tear guests didn't work. Maybe this

578
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: fire will work and drive these people out of there.

579
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: All right, should we take a break or should we wait?

580
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: Let's take a break. Okay, we'll take a break and

581
00:33:36,680 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: we'll tell you what happens next. Okay, Chuck, So the

582
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: for for a little bit. The fire department UM sprays

583
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: some of the houses next to the move house, but

584
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: doesn't put the fire out or spray the fire on

585
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,240
Speaker 1: the move house. So when the abandoned houses, they're spraying

586
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,479
Speaker 1: down to try to contain the fire in the house.

587
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: The one house in this whole square block area where

588
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: they know people are, including seven children, they didn't spray.

589
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: Later on, they will defend this by saying, well, in

590
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: that siege, move Um fired on the firefighters and apparently

591
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: shot and injured several firefighters, so that we were worried

592
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: for the firefighters to be picked off fighting this fire

593
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: in this siege as well. Ramona Africa, who would be

594
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: the one adult from move to survive this siege? I

595
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: would say, well, like you said earlier, they had these

596
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: they weren't scared to to hit us with these water cannons.

597
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: The whole time there wasn't a fire, but then there

598
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: is a fire. Now they're scared. We're going to pick

599
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: them off. Doesn't make any sense. It's just be yes. Yeah.

600
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: And also I'm glad you brought that up because I

601
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: said to put a pin in the steam. This is

602
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: when the steam happened, because they're blowing water on this

603
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: fire now and it's creating all the steam that they said.

604
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: Didn't allow anyone to move in as well, because they

605
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: couldn't see anything. There was no visibility. Okay, So despite

606
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: spraying down the houses around this fire, it got out

607
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: of hand really fast, and it spread very fast, and

608
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 1: it moved very quickly, not just from the move house, um,

609
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: but onto the neighboring houses and then beyond. And even

610
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: these are fairly narrow streets that this neighborhood was built on,

611
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: and it jumped the street fairly quickly. Yeah. It wasn't

612
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: contained or deemed under control until PM. So it's like

613
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: more than six hours after it started. Yeah, that this

614
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: whole city block has just burnt to the ground. It

615
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: ended up being like a six alarmed fire, which depending

616
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: on the city, is a hundred hundred and twenty firefighters, chiefs,

617
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: ladder trucks. It's a big old fire. Yeah. So uh,

618
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: you mentioned the nineteen seventy eight siege where um the

619
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: officer was shot and killed and where the beating of

620
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 1: Delbert Africa went down. Important to remember that because two

621
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: of the officers there were involved in the beat down

622
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: of Delbert Africa were also on the scene today. And

623
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: they make a big point in this commission like did

624
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: you think about sending these guys in there might not

625
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: be a good idea and they may have revenge on

626
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: their minds uh, And I can't remember what the answer was.

627
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: He was kind of like he said, no, I didn't

628
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: think of that, yeah, or yes I did, whatever it was.

629
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: He was not like, yeah, that was not a good idea, right,

630
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: He stood by whatever it was. Right. So this kind

631
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: of sets up um another story in tandem that's going

632
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: on right now, which is at a certain point during

633
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: this massive fire, Yeah, they tried to get out from

634
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: the basement. The move people tried to get out. They

635
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: tried to escape, that's right, They tried to get out

636
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: the back door. There's this um. At this points the

637
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 1: cops had moved into the alleyway there was no camera access.

638
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: You couldn't see what happened. But from the testimony that

639
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: I can't even hardly get through the testimony of that kid.

640
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: You know, they deposed him. He wasn't in front of

641
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: the commission, but Africa. Yeah, but Bertie Africa was like

642
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: what he looked like ten or eleven years old when

643
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: they deposed him. Yeah, but he was actually like thirteen,

644
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 1: was he? Um? But this kid is retelling the story, Uh,

645
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: seems incredibly credible and believable to me, Like, I fully

646
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: believe that he was telling the truth Over the two

647
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: cops who are supposed who may or may not who

648
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: may have actually fired on the people trying to escape

649
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: the house of the two. It's way easier to believe

650
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: that kids testimony than these guys who were the ones

651
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: who beat Delbert Africa in. Yeah, so that's what happened.

652
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: They tried to leave. There was a kid named rad

653
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: Africa that was I think like thirteen or fourteen, and

654
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: he was carrying out a baby and he was one

655
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: of the first ones out and he goes back into

656
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: the house and there's that part of the documentary where

657
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: the the priest is talking to the officers and He's like,

658
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: because officers are saying, all we were saying was come

659
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: out with your hands up, right, we didn't fire on anything,

660
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: We didn't fire. We come out with your hands up.

661
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: And this priest is like, I'm trying to think of

662
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: what would make a kid holding a baby go back

663
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: into a building engulfed in flames. And the cops are like,

664
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, you can't really put yourself in

665
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: a move person's feet, right, you can't really identify with them,

666
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: and that that minister or whatever said, actually I was

667
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: friends with a lot of these people. I knew them

668
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: on a human level. Um. The other thing that really

669
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: kind of damns the two cops who beat Delbert Africa's

670
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: testimony UM is that there there was reports from a

671
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 1: lot of witnesses, including like fire department people from of

672
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: um gunfire in this alley around this time. So the

673
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: whole thing kind of adds up if you take those

674
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: testament that the reports of witnesses that there was gunfire

675
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: in the back alley with Birdie Africa and Ramona Africa's

676
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: testimony that around that same time people had tried to escape,

677
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: and then the testimony of the cops themselves that the

678
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: people had run back in the house. It sounds a

679
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: lot like a reasonable person would conclude that the cops

680
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 1: who had beaten Delbert Africa shot at the people from

681
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: move In who tried to escape the fire and force

682
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: them back into the burning house. That's certainly what it

683
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: sounds like. Uh. They the cops said that the kid

684
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: had or he said he was a man, he was

685
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: a kid, had a rifle that he pointed at them,

686
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: and like, I know what a rifle looks like, because

687
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: the the kid who survived, um Bertie said he had

688
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: a monkey wrench in his hand that he used to

689
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: get the window open. And he came out with a

690
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: monkey wrench in that baby. And the cop was like,

691
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: I can tell the differ between a rifle and a

692
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: monkey wrench. Yeah. And if you're sitting here like, hey,

693
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: you lay off the cops, just watch this documentary and

694
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: then listen to this part over again, because it's really

695
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: it's a really great documentary. It does a really good

696
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: job of like laying everything out. But part of the

697
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: part of the um, I guess the goodness of this

698
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: documentary is that it's all archival and it lets the

699
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 1: people speak for themselves. Yeah, it's just you basically kind

700
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: of watch what happened and listen to what people said

701
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: about it, you know, including the people. And it's obviously

702
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: I mean it's edited. It's not just like here's this

703
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: this inquiry, here's my documentary. But I mean that it

704
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 1: lets it pay out enough that you get a really

705
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 1: good clear picture of of what happened in the testimony

706
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: that followed. So, I mean, that's kind of the end

707
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: of that story. Um, as it happened. You know, these

708
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: Ramona and Bertie were the only two to make it

709
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: out of that house alive. And that hero I mentioned earlier,

710
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: cop Man. I wish I could remember his name. I

711
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: got his name, he um. He he could not stop

712
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: himself from running to Bertie to help him. Yeah, James Officer,

713
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: James burg Hire. So burg Hire um ran to them,

714
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: despite his some of his colleagues saying, don't I think

715
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: it's a trap. You're gonna be killed? He said, I can't.

716
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: I can't. Like I see this kid right there, and

717
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: I'm going to go rescue him. He thought of his kids,

718
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: he said he did, and he was. They even say

719
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: like in the inquiry, like if there's if there's any

720
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: like silver, silver lining or shining moment to this whole

721
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: horrible thing. It's what you did. Um. And he got

722
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: kind of rousted out of the police department within a

723
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: year or two. Oh yeah, his his own uh police

724
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: brethren turned on him. They wrote racial epithets on his

725
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: locker because he saved this kid. Uh was diagnosed with

726
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: PTSD and left the forest two years later. Uh. And

727
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: there's a great article I found that I read the

728
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: first third of right before we had to record that

729
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: of him an interview with him. I guess like five

730
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: or six years ago that I can't wait to go

731
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 1: read and finish up. So let's finish up. Okay. So,

732
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: so the so Bertie and Ramona were the only two

733
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: move members who survived. The other eleven died, including six

734
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: children in this house that was set on fire. And

735
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: the fire was set off by a bomb that the

736
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Police Department dropped on the house. So obviously Philadelphia

737
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: is gonna cough up some money for this. Uh yeah,

738
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: that was Um. There were settlements UM. The parents of

739
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: the dead children, UM settled for twenty five million dollars total. UM.

740
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: Michael Ward young Bertie, he became Michael Warred. He changed

741
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: his name. He got one point seven million dollars, Ramona

742
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: Africa got half a million dollars, and the families of

743
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: John Africa and his nephew they couldn't reach a settlement,

744
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: so they were awarded one million by a jury. And

745
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: then here's the kicker. Police Chief Sambor and fire Chief

746
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: Richmond were forced to pay a dollar a week for

747
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 1: eleven years to Ramona Africa to to keep in mind,

748
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: five seventy two dollars, which is a but it's a

749
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: civil I mean that's a civil punishment basically saying we

750
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: think you're like, you might not be criminally responsible, but

751
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: in the civil suit we are saying it's basically like

752
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: how um symbolic payment or whatever. Yeah, it's like how

753
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: the court, the civil court ruled against o j even

754
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: though he had been found not um guilty of murder

755
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: in the criminal the civil courts still said, no, you're

756
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: you're responsible. We believe so we're going to get you

757
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: in this way. They did the same thing. And this

758
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 1: was despite the fact that Ramona Africa did seven years.

759
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: Like they didn't say, hey, we're really sorry we burned

760
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: this house. Here's some money. They said, hey, um, you're

761
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: under arrest for um inciting riot and UM conspiracy of

762
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: something or other and she did seven years. She didn't

763
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: get out early because the parole board said you have

764
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: to denounce move um and she refused to denounce move

765
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: and she did her full seven years, although now she

766
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: is not affiliated with MOVE any longer. As far as

767
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, um. As far as the original MOVE nine,

768
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: who are the ones in prison for the killing of

769
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: the police officer. Two of them died in prison. I

770
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: think two are still in prison. The rest, including just

771
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: in February. Uh, February twelve, Eddie Africa was paroled. Um.

772
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: Delbert and Chuck Africa are still behind bars. I think

773
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: the only two still behind bars. Uh. And as far

774
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: as Michael Ward a k A young Birdie Africa, he

775
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 1: very sadly died in two thousand thirteen in a hot

776
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: tub cruise ship drowning due to you uh, intoxication. Yeah.

777
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: They The Brevard County, Florida Medical Examiner ruled at an

778
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 1: accidental death from drowning in the hot tub from just

779
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: being drunk. I guess what a weird way to go

780
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,439
Speaker 1: after all that weird life. Yeah, he um. It's weird

781
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 1: because during the deposition. He was there with his father,

782
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: and I'm like, where was his dad? His dad was

783
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: looking for him while his dad was out of the

784
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: country in the military, while he was living in Philadelphia. Right,

785
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: but he had moved to um, suburban Philadelphia. Yeah, his

786
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 1: dad did and had been looking for Michael and had

787
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: no idea he was, you know, thirty minutes away in Philly. Yeah.

788
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: So he lived the rest of his life with his dad,

789
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: and that's who he referenced earlier when he was like,

790
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: you know, the stuff that went on there, I'll only

791
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: tell my father super super tragic. And it's one of

792
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: these things I think like we should do a little

793
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: triumvirate of this in Ruby Ridge and Waco, maybe like

794
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: three times where there was a potentially problematic organization in

795
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: the United States government just decided to firebombit. Yeah. These

796
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: are so sticky because you want to be like, oh,

797
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: these people are the victims and the you know, the

798
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: government really was a villain in this one. But you're like,

799
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 1: it's never that complex, and these stories really teach you

800
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: that that's always things are much more textured than than

801
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: than that. They're much more nuanced than that black and white. Um.

802
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: But even still still don't drop you don't drop a

803
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: bomb and burn people to death. Yeah, the city as

804
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: far as that block went, um, they paid eleven million dollars,

805
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: which was by all accounts a very inside deal with

806
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: some developer who put up a bunch of houses that

807
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: were um condemned in two thousand due to shoddy construction.

808
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: So somebody got rich again trying to build these things,

809
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: did a terrible job. Um, twenty four families stayed. They

810
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 1: offered repairs and buyouts, uh, and apparently most people took

811
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: the buyouts. And if you do like the little Google Earth,

812
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: the one oh sage, it's uh still row houses. And

813
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: on either side of that it looks like people might

814
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: be living there. But that building has like you know,

815
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: apply wood up in the windows, because I heard like

816
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: starting in about two thousand fifteen they brought in a

817
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: good developer and started to redevelop it and then starting

818
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: to come back. Well it's interesting that one address though

819
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: is uh is boarded up, So I don't know if

820
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 1: like no one wants to live there, or it could

821
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: be an older Google image. Yeah those are usually newer, right,

822
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: I wonder why, I mean, it could be older than

823
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: two fifteen although I looked at my house the other

824
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: day and it was it was the old house. The

825
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: old house. Yeah, and I was kind of like, oh,

826
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: that's cute. It looked prettier than I thought. No, you

827
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: got a good house. I gotta see your new version. Yeah,

828
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: you should fancy version. I'm just waiting for an invite.

829
00:47:54,040 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: Come on over. Thanks, Um, I can't Uh. If you

830
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: want to know more about the move bombing police, please,

831
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 1: we both beseech you go watch Let the Fire Burn

832
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: on Amazon Prime, on the internet, wherever you can see it.

833
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: Just see it. It's really really good. And and we

834
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: should point out to that no one involved on the

835
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: on the cops, in the political side suffered any punishments.

836
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 1: There was that inquiry and no one was found guilty

837
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: of any wrongdoing except although this is this will put

838
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: a really good button on this multi racial panel inquiry

839
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: panel that held these hearings to a person with one

840
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: dissenter said that we conclude had this not been a

841
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: black working class neighborhood and instead of white working class neighborhood,

842
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: the police never would have dropped that bomb. Of course

843
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have. Yeah, okay, uh, it's time for listening now.

844
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: Who was the lone dissenter I didn't see. It's got

845
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,280
Speaker 1: to be a guy with the glasses. It's always that guy. Uh,

846
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: what am I gonna call this? Perfect pitch follow up?

847
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: Hey guys. Back in two thousand nine, my band was

848
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: recording an album and there was one song that ends

849
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 1: with us all singing and holding out a single note.

850
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: The next song starts with us singing that same note.

851
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 1: You see what they did adding drums. Then the songs

852
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: are edited together to have them flow into each other

853
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: with no gap. Josh, he is very interesting because he's

854
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: a musician. Jerry just be like, I'm meeting me, So

855
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: what did you guys say? We had finished recording that

856
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: first one, and I can tell by the look on

857
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: Josh's face he's like that old trick. Uh packed our

858
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: instruments away. Then we're about to start the next one.

859
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: We realize we need to hear the first note so

860
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: we could sing in the right pitch instead of loading

861
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 1: up the previous song. Our pianist said, I have perfect

862
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 1: pitch and built it out the note, which we all

863
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: who don't have perfect pitch, trusted him to be right

864
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: and started recording from there. Litterally, we know he doesn't

865
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: have perfect pitch, but it's close. Uh. When we edited

866
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: the songs together and played them through, the notes were

867
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: supposed to match were off by about a half step.

868
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: Now it sounds like a Jerry very dissonant, totally wrong.

869
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 1: Um oh, I just realized Jerry is going to hear

870
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: this one. She edited this episode's right. Just put a

871
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: Wilhelm screaming there, Jerry, We'll be all right. We are

872
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: already out of the studio at that point, so we

873
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: ended up just releasing it and claiming the dissonance was intentional,

874
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: but we never let them off the hook and with

875
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: the old oh yeah, you got perfect pitch, do you?

876
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for all the hard work, hard work.

877
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: Guys have learned so much, been endlessly entertained for years. Signed,

878
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: spanked and sent. That is from Kenny. Thank you Kenny.

879
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: We appreciate that. That was a pretty great email. I

880
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: mean literally, L O L. I can only assume it's

881
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: Kenny Rogers. I also want to say this, we give

882
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: Jerry a hard time around here. It's stuff you should know.

883
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: Only she's not here. Imagine Actually that's not true. We

884
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: do well, she's sitting right there too. I can't imagine

885
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know without her. We love our Jerry

886
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: and she is perfect exactly the way she is. Called

887
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: that a nice save. All right? Uh well, if you

888
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: want to get in touch with this, you can go

889
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: on to stuff you Should Know dot com and check

890
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: out our social links, and you can also send us

891
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: an email to stuff podcast at i heart radio dot com.

892
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of i Heeart Radios.

893
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,

894
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

895
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.