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Speaker 1: Body does.

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Speaker 2: But Joseph's gotten more. Most of the time, when I'm

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Speaker 2: going about my daily routine around the house, or maybe

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Speaker 2: at work, or maybe if I'm getting out at the

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Speaker 2: gas station, I might discard something. I know. I do

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Speaker 2: it a lot my wife. My wife looks at me

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Speaker 2: many times and says, he actually need this. I say, no, honey,

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Speaker 2: I really don't. She's like, well, throw it away, And,

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Speaker 2: being the compliant husband that I am, most of the time,

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Speaker 2: I do that. I make my way to the trash,

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Speaker 2: and of course I take the trash out to the yard,

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Speaker 2: I mean out to the curb when it's time for

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Speaker 2: the trash to be picked up. You don't really think

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Speaker 2: too much about it most of the time unless it's

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Speaker 2: drawn to your attention or it gets in the way,

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Speaker 2: or whatever the case might be. But when it comes

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Speaker 2: to the life of a woman, a thirty six year

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Speaker 2: old woman with five children, how does that factor into this?

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Speaker 2: Who would make a choice to discard her? Who would

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Speaker 2: make the choice to essentially entomb her in a plastic

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Speaker 2: container and cover her with a blanket in a wooded

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Speaker 2: area in Indiana. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is

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Speaker 2: body bags Dave, did you spend much time camping?

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Speaker 3: So funny that you would talk about it like bed Joe,

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Speaker 3: because I know your experience with homeless camps in Atlanta,

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Speaker 3: I know my own personal experience with homeless camps. I

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Speaker 3: do like to camp, but camping in a tent with

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Speaker 3: a sleeping bag, knowing you're doing it for the weekend

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Speaker 3: and going home is different than the lifestyle of homelessness.

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Speaker 3: There are all types of reasons people find themselves homeless.

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Speaker 3: Tara Capps was a thirty six year old mother of

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Speaker 3: five who from time to time would live in a

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Speaker 3: homeless camp. Even though she had family loved her welcomed

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Speaker 3: her into their home, she would choose to be around

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Speaker 3: her homeless friends and be in those homeless camps. And

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Speaker 3: June twenty eighth, Virginia Summers. That's Terry Capps' mother, Virginia Summers.

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Speaker 3: Here's a rumor that something has happened to Tara, so

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Speaker 3: she starts looking for it. They can't find Tara anywhere.

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Speaker 3: After two days of looking, Virginia Summers reports Tara Capps missing.

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Speaker 3: Over the next few days, more rumors or her more

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Speaker 3: tips come in, and finally, Virginia Summers is out looking

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Speaker 3: for tera in a very specific area with her daughter,

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Speaker 3: another daughter, and a son in law when they find

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Speaker 3: a plastic toat. I don't really have to tell you

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Speaker 3: the rest of the story. We're going to get to that.

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Speaker 3: But today's story is about the life and the death

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Speaker 3: a thirty six year old mother of five, Tara Capps.

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Speaker 3: As we talk about Tara Capps today, Joe, what is

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Speaker 3: the one thing about camping, being out in the woods

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Speaker 3: that people don't think about right off hand?

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Speaker 2: You know, the thing about it is is that when

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Speaker 2: you're camping, and I had to bivouac in the Army

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Speaker 2: as well, many many years ago, it's never clean. It's

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Speaker 2: always dirty. You know, in the Army they tell you

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Speaker 2: you have to you have to clean your gear when

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Speaker 2: you come in from the field. And that's a big deal.

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Speaker 2: Well you still, you know, if you're camping, if you're

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Speaker 2: tent camping, you got to clean your gear when you

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Speaker 2: come in. It's a it's a messy circumstance gets sick.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you don't mean your stuff, you get

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Speaker 3: sick and you pass it everybody else you're camping with,

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Speaker 3: and next thing you know, you're at the doctor and

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Speaker 3: he's going, why do you have ringworm?

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Speaker 1: What's going on?

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Speaker 2: Dave? I always want to at least it's not heartworms.

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Speaker 3: Think about it, though, Joe, when you go out and

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Speaker 3: you're camping and it's a vacation, and it's kind of

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Speaker 3: like a break from the You know, we spend all

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Speaker 3: of our time acquiring wonderful nice things in indoor air

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Speaker 3: conditioning in seventy five inchest, you know, TVs and all that.

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Speaker 3: But a vacation for us is to break it all down,

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Speaker 3: throw away all the comforts of home and go out

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Speaker 3: in tent camp, go sleep in the dirt with the

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Speaker 3: campus cover and one hundred degree and one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: of humidity. That's that's camping, and that's like fun. I

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Speaker 3: always wonder does it make homeless people mad when they

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Speaker 3: see us come into the woods and camp for the weekend.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, y'all are playing around with this is my life.

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Speaker 3: I'm living here, this is my day and day, and

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Speaker 3: you guys are here vacationing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, now, hey, look, I got to stop you

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Speaker 1: right there.

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Speaker 2: I have spent a lot of time with homeless working cases,

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Speaker 2: and it's a amazing. I think they're painted in this

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Speaker 2: light that they have no other options other than the

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Speaker 2: life that they have being quote unquote homeless. You know,

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Speaker 2: I can't tell you how many grown men that I've

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Speaker 2: talked to they are homeless out on the street, and

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Speaker 2: they are like missions they can go to, you know,

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Speaker 2: to go sleep for the night and then get shower

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Speaker 2: and all that stuff. How many of them actually choose

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Speaker 2: to live lived this way? I've mentioned there's a huge

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Speaker 2: homeless encampment in Atlanta with hundreds and hundreds of people

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Speaker 2: sleeping underneath a bridge, and it's weird. But you know,

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Speaker 2: talking about our case today, it kind of orbits the

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Speaker 2: homeless world. And it's right outside of Indianapolis, the area

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Speaker 2: where our victim is found. Really, you know, I've talked

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Speaker 2: about camping out. It really made me think of that

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Speaker 2: because it's so filthy dirty. But this is the constant

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Speaker 2: state of this location.

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Speaker 3: Day Tarah caps At thirty six had gone missing and

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Speaker 3: her mother got a call or was told. Not exactly

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Speaker 3: sure how it happened, but her mother was called around

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Speaker 3: June twenty eighth saying something has happened with Tara, and

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Speaker 3: so mom starts her regular way of tracking down Tara

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Speaker 3: and can't find her. Two days of trying to find

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Speaker 3: her daughter, and that the family has now joined in

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Speaker 3: and they called the police and they actually file and

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Speaker 3: missing persons report on June thirtieth. Now, based on what

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Speaker 3: the family had been told, they had a pretty much

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Speaker 3: an area where they knew that they suspected Tara had

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Speaker 3: last been and whatever tip they had been given they

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Speaker 3: passed along to police. But Joe, you to the police

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Speaker 3: right now are very thin. Oh And it's a difficult

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Speaker 3: thing for police to go looking for an adult who

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Speaker 3: is missing because adults are not necessarily wanting to be found.

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Speaker 3: So while mom might be upset she can't get up

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Speaker 3: with a thirty six year old daughter, what if the

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Speaker 3: thirty six year old daughter just doesn't want to be

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Speaker 3: talked to right now.

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Speaker 2: I wish I wish you and I had a dollar

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Speaker 2: for every time we've talked about this particular point along

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Speaker 2: the continuum of these cases about missing missing adults. And

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to be dismissive in any way, but

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Speaker 2: you know, it's like with kids, they've got all these

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Speaker 2: various calls that will go out, you know, and there's

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Speaker 2: billboards and you get the digital read out over the

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Speaker 2: thing and it's really hard for the police to you know,

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Speaker 2: how can police take the temperature of a case where

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Speaker 2: they have no familiarity with the individual and they don't

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Speaker 2: under urgency doesn't necessarily factor into it because we are,

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Speaker 2: in fact, in this country citizens, we are citizens of

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Speaker 2: We are free will people, right, and so we can

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Speaker 2: make choices about what we're going to do when we

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Speaker 2: exit exit the house.

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Speaker 3: And just because your mom says this is out of character,

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean they drop everything and stop looking for twelve

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Speaker 3: year old Johnny to go look for thirty six year

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Speaker 3: old Terara. They have to choose Joe and yeah, so

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Speaker 3: here even though it is outside of the norm, right,

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Speaker 3: That's why the family had to look. And the reason

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Speaker 3: I'm saying that Joe is as we're researching this episode,

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Speaker 3: I saw a number of people making comments about why

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Speaker 3: didn't the police spend more time looking? Why didn't the

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Speaker 3: police find her first? Because what we're going to get

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Speaker 3: to here is the saddest part of the story. As

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Speaker 3: a as a dad, I cannot imagine what her mother

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Speaker 3: went through because the mom and her family members they

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Speaker 3: were out looking to they were looking every day. And

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Speaker 3: again I'm not knocking the police for not being out there.

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Speaker 3: They were looking as they could, I'm sure, But again,

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Speaker 3: thirty six year old adult has the right to do

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Speaker 3: whatever they want to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they do and look kind of maybe a controversial

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Speaker 2: statement if you feel so up in arms about the

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Speaker 2: idea that the police are are not out there looking

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Speaker 2: for somebody and maybe they're not applying the shoe leather.

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Speaker 2: My suggestion is go to the gas station, fill up

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Speaker 2: your car. And you had that direction, you go, put

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Speaker 2: your shoulder to the stone, you go help out. Because

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Speaker 2: so many of these cases they form groups of people

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Speaker 2: that might go out and look. So if that's if

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Speaker 2: that's your thing, I see.

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Speaker 3: Like you said that joke, because the people that are

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Speaker 3: commenting on it are on social media commenting why didn't

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Speaker 3: the family was out there doing it? That's and that's

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Speaker 3: why the family it was actually Tara Kapp's mother of Virginia,

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Speaker 3: summers with her son and if other family members and

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Speaker 3: friends they did. They organized the search parties. They knew

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Speaker 3: better than just sit back and wait for everybody else

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Speaker 3: to do the job.

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Speaker 2: They did.

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Speaker 1: They went and put the gas in the car and

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Speaker 1: put the shoe leather on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, and think about it. They knew

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Speaker 2: the urgency here. The family certainly did because like you

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Speaker 2: had mentioned Tara, you know, Tara had bumped into the

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Speaker 2: law a couple of times along her journey. And listen,

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Speaker 2: this is the stone cold truth here when you have

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Speaker 2: an individual that has been in the system. All right,

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Speaker 2: first off, the idea we use the word urgency just

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Speaker 2: a moment ago. And look, you can you can church

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Speaker 2: us up anyway. You can try to soften it if

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Speaker 2: you want to. But the reality is this, if you've

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Speaker 2: got a record, if you've got a record the urgency,

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Speaker 2: the urgency and something like this, as somebody is living

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Speaker 2: a lifestyle where they put theirself in danger, they don't

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Speaker 2: talk to people for a protracted period of time. I

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Speaker 2: got to tell you what, the police it's going to

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Speaker 2: get diminished if she and another cold heart truth here.

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Speaker 2: If she had been like a mama that was living

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Speaker 2: in suburbia with her five kids in some nice how

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Speaker 2: with the grooms groomed yard, and she goes missing, cops

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Speaker 2: are there, It's going to be escalated at that point

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Speaker 2: in time. And so there are there are literally two Americas.

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Speaker 2: You have to understand that that they are there are

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Speaker 2: and it's very frustrating it is. So that's that's where

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Speaker 2: the rub comes in. And from a forensic standpoint, an

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Speaker 2: evidentiary standpoint, We've talked about time a lot on Bodybag's day,

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Speaker 2: and we know the further you move away from that

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Speaker 2: critical moment time where she's noticed. We don't actually know

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Speaker 2: when she truly went missing, right, but when you notice that,

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Speaker 2: the further you move away from that, dude, you're losing

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Speaker 2: data at that point.

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Speaker 3: That's I was going to ask you about that, Joe,

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Speaker 3: because we know that Mom Virginia Summers actually did somebody

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Speaker 3: reached out. Now we don't know exactly who, what, when, where.

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Speaker 3: We do know that on June twenty eighth, the mother,

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Speaker 3: Virginia Summers was herd a rumor or, it was told,

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Speaker 3: a story that Tara was caught up in something. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so that's why mom starts looking right away the area

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Speaker 3: they went to, where areas they were given instructions to go,

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Speaker 3: but areas they were not unfamiliar with.

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Speaker 2: Can let me let me stop you real quick. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I got to tell you, brother caught up, caught quote

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Speaker 2: unquote caught up in something as sinister as hell. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I mean that that if you're a mother, and you've

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Speaker 2: got that information coming into you. Yeah, when you hear

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Speaker 2: your that you're she she's this lady's baby. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: don't care if it's thirty six years older. When you

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Speaker 2: hear that your child, who has children is caught up

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Speaker 2: in something and now you can't find her, she's not

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Speaker 2: hitting those those normal points where at least she passes

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Speaker 2: by the house. Yes, she calls you at some point

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Speaker 2: point in time. Can you imagine for this family that

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Speaker 2: that's you know, they've probably had I would look dollars

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Speaker 2: to donuts. They've probably had that sickening feeling rise up

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Speaker 2: in their stomach over the years, multiple times.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And I'm thinking because I've talked to families in the

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Speaker 2: wake of something horrible happening, after I've notified a family

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Speaker 2: of a death, and many of them will say to me,

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying this is the case with terror, but

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Speaker 2: many of them will say to me, we knew this

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Speaker 2: was coming, and this is our worst nightmare come true.

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Speaker 2: And Dave, I got to tell you, brother, in this case,

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Speaker 2: this is truly the stuff of nightmares. In Tara's case,

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Speaker 2: day by this idea that this mother has gotten this

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Speaker 2: information about her daughter involved in something or that. You know,

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Speaker 2: we really don't know the framework because the police are

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Speaker 2: not releasing a lot of information. But apparently there's there

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Speaker 2: was some kind of tip, right that was involved in this.

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Speaker 2: Can you stand on that just the little.

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Speaker 1: Thing is a tip.

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Speaker 3: That's what we were told, And the thing is reading

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Speaker 3: different reports and different reporters who have talked to Virginia,

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Speaker 3: I've been able to to get this gathered up. Look, man,

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Speaker 3: nobody wants to talk bad about anyone. We certainly do

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Speaker 3: not ever, and I'm not talking bad about Tara. Now,

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Speaker 3: Tara was a bit She was her own person and

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Speaker 3: did her own thing, and so the family did keep

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Speaker 3: ties with her. Yet they kept up with her. They

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Speaker 3: knew where she was most of the time, even if

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Speaker 3: it wasn't with them at their home. In this case,

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Speaker 3: though they hadn't seen her for a lot of a

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Speaker 3: period of time that they were concerned. When on June

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Speaker 3: twenty eighth, Virginia Summers gets a call or a note

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Speaker 3: or here's something is told to her that Tara's missing,

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Speaker 3: and here's the general vicinity where she last was and

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Speaker 3: the area where she was given. Where Virginia Summers was

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Speaker 3: given to look was near an area where there were

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Speaker 3: a number of homeless encampments, and that's how they're phrasing these, Okay.

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Speaker 3: The family actually begins to search for Tara, and the

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Speaker 3: area that they suggested they might be able to find

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Speaker 3: her was in the woods behind a food distribution center.

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Speaker 3: The food distribution center I had. I went and looked

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Speaker 3: this up. It's for those who are homeless, those who

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Speaker 3: are having a difficult.

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Speaker 1: Time putting food on the table. Beyond the normal food

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Speaker 1: stamp issues.

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Speaker 3: You know, there are a lot of people that just

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Speaker 3: don't have don't have enough, and there are a number

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Speaker 3: of distribution centers like this that are usually staffed by

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Speaker 3: ministries and organizations.

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Speaker 1: And that's what this was.

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Speaker 3: It was an area where people would congregate and find

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Speaker 3: out things that can help them as they live their life,

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Speaker 3: oftentimes on the street. This was an area that was

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Speaker 3: familiar to Terra Caps and as an area familiar to

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Speaker 3: her family, the family knew what was going on in

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Speaker 3: this area. Now as the family was looking, it wasn't

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Speaker 3: like the homeless encams. I'm putting that in air quotes.

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Speaker 3: The homeless encamps weren't on the street. The food distribution

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Speaker 3: center is. You know, the food distribution center is an

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Speaker 3: area where trucks and cars and everything else that's going

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Speaker 3: on there. But the area where the homeless people were

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Speaker 3: staying was back off the street, back in the woods

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Speaker 3: where they could be hidden from people driving by, and

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Speaker 3: that was where they did their thing. Now, oftentimes on

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Speaker 3: the route to a homeless camp you'll find a creek.

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Speaker 3: You'll find oftentimes it's just runoff water, you know, from

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Speaker 3: rain and things like that. It's not always cleanest water,

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Speaker 3: but it's water. And oftentimes you mentioned this in the

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Speaker 3: first segment about camping being in an area that is

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Speaker 3: roughing it. You don't have electricity, you don't have clean water,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of these people are just trying to

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Speaker 3: exist and whatever reason for them being homeless is a

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Speaker 3: part of the homelessness. In fact, in this area, when

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Speaker 3: a news crew was back trying to help look for

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Speaker 3: her because she was a missing adult with five children,

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Speaker 3: the family is asking for help. The family is looking

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Speaker 3: for and one of the news crews went to the

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Speaker 3: area and found a number of orange caps for needles,

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Speaker 3: hypodermic needles. You see those caps and you know they're

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Speaker 3: probably not being used for insulin. So you know that

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Speaker 3: tells you something about this particular homeless encampment. It's not

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Speaker 3: a place where people are just living. It is a

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Speaker 3: place where there's some drug abuse going on. Not the

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Speaker 3: safest of places to be for a woman in her

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Speaker 3: thirties out by herself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know you have to be if you're

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Speaker 2: going to be in this area. This is the question

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Speaker 2: I think that I would pose if you're going to

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Speaker 2: be in this area. This is not like your car

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Speaker 2: is broken down on the side of the road. You're

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Speaker 2: gonna exit your car and you're going to walk all

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Speaker 2: the way.

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Speaker 1: We're going to try to find your tracing so that

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Speaker 1: we can find you. Yeah, this is you.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like if if she were to wind up

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Speaker 2: in this area, she would have to have been purposed

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Speaker 2: to have go there. Now, purposed can either mean of

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Speaker 2: her own volition, or it could mean she was taken

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Speaker 2: to that area, and that's very sinister. But you know

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Speaker 2: when you here, here's one of the problems when you

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Speaker 2: go into one of these encampments. And I know, I

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Speaker 2: know people have different views of what almost encampment is

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Speaker 2: really like because most folks across America see stuff like

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Speaker 2: you know, this terrible problem they have in Frisco right now.

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Speaker 2: They've had it in Portland for long time. Seattle has

331
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Speaker 2: always had an issue, and certainly La.

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Speaker 3: In the area where they were actually looking for Tara,

333
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Speaker 3: the area was somewhat overrun. It was an area that

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Speaker 3: was muddy because of recent rains. It's overholm with empty

335
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Speaker 3: bottles and cans. There are worn, worn out clothing, probably

336
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Speaker 3: stuff that they got because you know, when you're living homeless,

337
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Speaker 3: you don't have a place to clean your clothes, so

338
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Speaker 3: when your clothes get dirty or torn, they end up

339
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Speaker 3: just wherever you are. Oftentimes they'll be used for flooring

340
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Speaker 3: in a dirt area. They're also they find broken branches,

341
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Speaker 3: They find a lot of areas where you can tell

342
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Speaker 3: people have been staying. And the family finds this in

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Speaker 3: the area where they were told to look for Tara caps.

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Speaker 3: But my question to you, Joe, in area like this,

345
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Speaker 3: when you are trying to find evidence of where this

346
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Speaker 3: person is and what happened to them, is not Christine,

347
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Speaker 3: you go in, even if you were to shoot me

348
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Speaker 3: in my front yard, You're going to be able to

349
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Speaker 3: find blood from my body. You're probably going to be

350
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Speaker 3: able to find the shell you know that came out

351
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Speaker 3: of the gun. You're going to be able to find

352
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Speaker 3: evidence there. But in an area like this where you

353
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Speaker 3: have so many different people with so much different everything

354
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Speaker 3: from DNA, you know, from just the normal body functions,

355
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Speaker 3: you have got all that intermingled, how do you find

356
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Speaker 3: any kind of usable in forensics.

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Speaker 2: It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. And here's another element

358
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Speaker 2: to this. I've actually worked cases where the homeless have

359
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Speaker 2: lived around and have dwelled the same space with dead

360
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Speaker 2: and decomposing remains, and they just go on about their life.

361
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Speaker 2: They don't. And here's the reason that this happens. The

362
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Speaker 2: homeless do not want to invite the cops into their

363
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Speaker 2: life right for a number of reasons. They don't. First off,

364
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Speaker 2: they don't want to be run off from the area

365
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Speaker 2: that they're in. They would just as soon suffer in

366
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Speaker 2: silence and be around a decomposing body perhaps, And I've

367
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Speaker 2: seen this happen.

368
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Speaker 3: Yep, Joe, to tell the story about what you found

369
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Speaker 3: in Atlanta at that where there was a body that

370
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Speaker 3: had been there for a while, I think, friends, I

371
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Speaker 3: think this will actually explain a homeless encampment at a

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Speaker 3: level that if you're not familiar. Right, You'll understand because

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Speaker 3: Joe I'd never heard that story before and it stayed

374
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Speaker 3: with me and it shocks me to this day.

375
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. We got a call to go to this.

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Speaker 2: I'd mentioned the overpass area where there's this huge homeless

377
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Speaker 2: encampment and I'm talking, Dave. I'm not just talking about

378
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Speaker 2: like two or three guys that sit around a campfire

379
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Speaker 2: and their roast and weenies. I'm talking about hundreds of

380
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Speaker 2: people with individual mats laid out and that is their space.

381
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Speaker 4: Hundreds And I'm sorry, you're talking hundreds, one hundreds. No,

382
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Speaker 4: I'm not talking about fifty people. I'm talking And I

383
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Speaker 4: got this from the cop that worked the area because

384
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Speaker 4: when I got there, I couldn't. I think this is

385
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Speaker 4: so stupid. I know, it's like seeing the Grand Canyon

386
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Speaker 4: for the first time. You're like wow and so and

387
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 4: I've driven over that. It's an overpass on I eighty five,

388
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Speaker 4: and I'd driven over it for years. Didn't know that

389
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Speaker 4: this existed. As far as I could.

390
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Speaker 2: See, you just saw like little palettes that were laid out,

391
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Speaker 2: and there was like refuse everywhere. Anyway, the cop had

392
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Speaker 2: chased somebody into this area because they had stolen something,

393
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 2: something had gone down. And oh, by the way, as

394
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 2: he is, you know, talking to people, he looks down

395
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Speaker 2: and he catches a whiff of something that is even

396
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: outside the norm for a homeless area, which generally has

397
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: a pretty rank smell to it, and he visualized the

398
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 2: decomposing remains of a woman. Now, when I say decomposing,

399
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about she was slightly bloated, no, no, no,

400
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: skeletonization had started to set in, and she was actually

401
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 2: positioned between two guys that still lived there, and they

402
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 2: were sleeping next to the body day in and day out.

403
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 2: They called her by name. I could have swear that

404
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: her name was Sarah if I remember back, looking back

405
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: in my mental files. After all these years, they still

406
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: dwelled that area with her. This goes to show you.

407
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 2: I think this one example in my world at least,

408
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 2: that the homeless like to protect their area. It's their home,

409
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,919
Speaker 2: and you have to look at it that way. We

410
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 2: dismiss them very very much so, but this is what

411
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 2: they regard as their space, and so it becomes a

412
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 2: norm for the these things that we would find so repugnant,

413
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,479
Speaker 2: you know, the way they live and the filth and

414
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: back to your question about forensics. The only way the

415
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: word picture I can give you is if you took

416
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand piece jigsaw puzzle and altered about fifty

417
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: percent of the pieces, like cut the edges off of them,

418
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: and then threw it on the ground and say put

419
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 2: the puzzle together. That's what it's like working in one

420
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 2: of these big areas like this, because it's so convoluted

421
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 2: and they're missing pieces because things get stepped on. It's

422
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: not like walking. You remember how I talked about the

423
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: housewife living and the Pristine Perfectly, it's not protected like that.

424
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Speaker 2: We think those cases are very complicated in our world, Dude,

425
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 2: they ain't. When you get this really tests your metal

426
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 2: as a forensics person in this area because you're having

427
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 2: it to delineate between what has value and what doesn't.

428
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 2: But to the investigation, to the investigation, and from a

429
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: forensic standpoint, that's what I'm talking about. We're not talking

430
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: about the value of humanity or anything that we're talking about.

431
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: We're trying to find her. At this point in time,

432
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: she's still missing. She's still missing, but Dave, unfortunately she

433
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 2: wasn't missing for long. And the really shocking piece to

434
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: this is that it wasn't some cop, it wasn't some

435
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 2: homeless person. It was her home family who found this

436
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: woman entombed in a plastic container. I'm sitting here and

437
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: considering in my office as we're chatting today, and I'm

438
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 2: thinking because of this case, it's made me really consider this.

439
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, how many how many of these plastic and

440
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 2: we know what they are. I'll go and say a

441
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: brand name like rubber Maid plastic, rubber Maid storage mends

442
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 2: have I bought over the course of my life, either

443
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: from Walmart or some other place over or the hardware

444
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: so or a home depot, over the period of time,

445
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: with the intention of using them specifically to store something.

446
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 2: The first thing comes to mind are my grandmother's quilts

447
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: that are all hand pieced together and Christmas decorations. Those

448
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 2: are the two things that pop into my mind. And

449
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 2: Kim will put She'll put sweaters in there, you know

450
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: during the you know, during the warmer months, we'll keep

451
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: our sweaters in there and whatnot, and any kind of

452
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 2: winter clothes that are too bulky to store elsewhere. Dave,

453
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: how chilling is this? This is literally what this poor

454
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 2: woman's mother found. She actually found, Yeah, a container covered

455
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: with a blanket.

456
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 3: Dave, you've met you know, you mentioned the smell earlier.

457
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 3: That's a different odor than all the other odors that

458
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 3: exist in a homeless encampment, that this is still different.

459
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 3: And the family passed along the rumors and tips and

460
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 3: things they'd been told and things they'd heard because they

461
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 3: began looking immediately, and the police, I'm sure we're giving

462
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 3: them some advice on we'll get out to these areas,

463
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 3: but you're, you know, more than welcome to go.

464
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: Just be careful.

465
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: But the mom, when we get right into this Virginia Summers,

466
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 3: along with her son in law and her daughter, went

467
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 3: to look in a specific area where they had been

468
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 3: told to look, and against the fact that she was

469
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 3: told to look in a specific area, Joe tells me

470
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: that we're going to find out what happened.

471
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: And we look a huge, huge, huge, And again this

472
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: goes back to this idea of how does this how

473
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: does tear wind up specifically in here? Yes, okay, it's

474
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: one thing if you're if you're if you're going into

475
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: the few food distribution centers, all right, But no, you're

476
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: not going into the food distribution center. You're going into

477
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 2: the wooded area in Cammon behind that area that is

478
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: actually and when you see these photos of this place,

479
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: there's like a it's kind of shielded. There's like a

480
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 2: wall of green. We're in the summertime, and you see

481
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: it first, Joe, No, you couldn't. And and it's it's

482
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: intended to be that way. And you know, the homeless

483
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: many times will will cut debris down or cut limbs

484
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: down and kind of set up like a little barrier,

485
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: wooden barrier. Many times that's not necessarily what happened here,

486
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: but it's summertime, the trees are off in the low

487
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 2: growth scrub in addition to that is all out, So

488
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: you're not going to be able to appreciate this. And listen,

489
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: when Virginia and her daughter and her son in law

490
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: go walking back there, there's I don't think that there's

491
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: enough demons in hell to prevent a mama from going

492
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: to search for her baby. And I don't care how

493
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: dangerous they say it is, She's going back there. And

494
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: that's what she did. And you know, they came across

495
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 2: this plastic toad what they're referring to as a storage toad.

496
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 3: As they get to it, they know there's something inside

497
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 3: this toat. They can actually smell something different. And I

498
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 3: will tell you, if you have never smelled a decomposing body,

499
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 3: you will know what it is, intuitively, because it's a

500
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,959
Speaker 3: smell like none other. If you've never smelled it, I

501
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 3: pray you never smell it. I pray you don't know

502
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: that smell. But I will tell you all you have

503
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: to do the minute you smell it. You know, you

504
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: might not want to believe it, but you know and

505
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: tell it that. Paul Harvey on this the rest of

506
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: the story, Joe, what happened after they see the tote?

507
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's actually and I found this. This is a

508
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 2: very telling piece of evidence here. And I would if

509
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: I were just seeing this from Jump Street, if I

510
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: were the investigator, there's a couple of things I would do.

511
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: First off, you're going to photograph to sing in place.

512
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: But before we get to that, when they approach the toae,

513
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: they noticed that it was covered by a blanket. Now,

514
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things in life. In our lives,

515
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: we're very blessed, Dave. We have a roof over our head,

516
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: we've got food in our belly, we can take care

517
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: of our young uns all right. There are things that

518
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: we just commonly accept as the norm, all right, and

519
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: we might not think about them to a homeless person, though,

520
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: A blanket is like gold because it can do any

521
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: number of things. First Off, you had mentioned clothing being

522
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 2: used to create flooring happens. Secondly, it can provide you

523
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: can actually make a makeshift tent out of it. Thirdly,

524
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: and I think probably most importantly, is that it can

525
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: help you contain your body heat in the event that

526
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: it gets cold outside. You can cover with it, you

527
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: can walk around with it on your shoulders. I've been

528
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 2: sick before and I walked around the house with a

529
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: blanket wrapped around me. And at night. You know, if

530
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: you're homeless, you don't have a roof over your head, dude,

531
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: So that blanket is very important. And the fact that

532
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: a blanket was covering this toat is significant to me

533
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 2: because somebody has ownership of that. But it's actually when

534
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: the blanket is removed. And I've had this experience before.

535
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: You smell something and then you remove a layer from

536
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: something and smell like intensifies tenfold. When you finally, in

537
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: this particular case, she's actually sealed. They find tera she's

538
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 2: actually sealed within this plastic toat, So that means that

539
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: it's got one of these clip on lids that has

540
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: been placed a top of it. And At. You know,

541
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: Virginia found this first, and her son in law had

542
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: her backup, had her back up, he understood what you

543
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: were saying just a moment ago. So when they actually

544
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: find her, she's in this tot contained therein and of

545
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: course the police are summoned out here to work this case. Now,

546
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 2: let me kind of tell you what's so important about

547
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: this toat and about this blanket, Dave, because it's got

548
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: so much forensic value to it. Under no circumstances if

549
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: I was processing the scene, would I remove her body

550
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: from that toat period end of story. As a matter

551
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: of fact, that lid is going to be placed back

552
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: on top. The body, along with the toat is going

553
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: to be taken to the Mork, possibly in as secure

554
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 2: a modality as I possibly can find. The body is

555
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: going to be taken into the Mork and that toat

556
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: before her body ever comes out, Dave, it's going to

557
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: be processed. And when I say processed, I mean the

558
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: thing is going to be fingerprinted. You're going to identify

559
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: any points of contact along that surface, because if this

560
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: is plastic, I'm not saying that it's a non porous surface. However,

561
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: if someone without gloves on has touched the interior of

562
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: this thing, and certainly and I think you can identify,

563
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: you know how hard those lids are many times to

564
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: get back onto the thing. Yeah, and particularly if you've

565
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 2: got a body contained inside, it can kind of misshapen

566
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: the thing, and so the edges get out of line.

567
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: You're going to have to manipulate that lid. What does

568
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: that mean, Well, if you're not wearing gloves, that means

569
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: that you're going to have to manipulate and twist and

570
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: turn that lid to get it to snap into place.

571
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: So that means more points of contact. So if you

572
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 2: think about the outer edges where it has this kind

573
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 2: of faux handles on the end, it's not just a

574
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: matter of like pressing down at that point where the

575
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 2: handles and generally you roll your fingers underneath that when

576
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 2: you do it. It's how our hands are made, pressing

577
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: down until you fill it clip. Well, they may have

578
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: had to move to the corner, so you've got multiple

579
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: points of contact just to get the body in there

580
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 2: and listen. To get a body into this thing is

581
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: a huge task because in order to get the body

582
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: in there, you would have to get the body in

583
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: there before ryger had set in. If not, you're going

584
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 2: to have to break rger and then put her into

585
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: the to the toad. That's going to require more physical

586
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: manipulation of the body, and dependent upon her level of clothing,

587
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 2: you can find contact trace on there.

588
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: So this.

589
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: As dark as this case is, as dark as it is, Dave,

590
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: there's some I think evidentiary redemption here because it's contained.

591
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 2: As messy as the perimeter is around here, the fact

592
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: that they have her contained in this thing is going

593
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: to be a game changer potentially. And this is what

594
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 2: I'm thinking. I don't know of any case that I've

595
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 2: worked involving the homeless where I've come across an individual

596
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: has not been hooked up on charges before. And what

597
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: happens when you get hooked up on charges that take

598
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 2: the prints? And so my question is this, first off,

599
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: who would be familiar with this area, who would not

600
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: draw attention to themselves if they were a home? Who's

601
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 2: not going to be questioned? And when are you going

602
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: to do this? When are you going to make this

603
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: deposit of her body in this location? You're going to

604
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: do it under cover of darkness? Well, I doubt that

605
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: there's much light to get back there. Did you do

606
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: it in broad daylight? Did you drive a car back there?

607
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: You got a distribution center that's right there, I would

608
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 2: imagine perhaps maybe not. I would think there'd be cameras

609
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 2: around there, because we've already heard that it's a dangerous area.

610
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: The cops have said this. You don't think the distribution

611
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 2: areas is aware of this. You don't think that the

612
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: distribution area has had or building has had people that

613
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 2: are absolutely out of their mind when they have walked

614
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: into that front door. Either they're on drugs, they're drunk,

615
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 2: or they're mentally ill and they decompensate in the lobby

616
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: of this place. They're going to have some kind of

617
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: security there. I'm thinking that they're going to be able

618
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: to find something, either with that tote or with security

619
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: cameras that are posted around this area.

620
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 3: But you know, Joe, I assumed that when I assumed

621
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 3: that she was going to have died in the encampment,

622
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: probably of a drug overdose and not as you mentioned earlier,

623
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 3: not wanting to draw attention to themselves and where they

624
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 3: are that some people got together they put her body

625
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 3: in the toat and then put the body the tote

626
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: on the outside of the encampment so that they could

627
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 3: the body could be found without them encroaching on where

628
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 3: they were living.

629
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: But that's actually not what happened.

630
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: No, this is much much more sinister than this dave

631
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 2: because when they got her body out of this finally,

632
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: out of this toad, they discovered that she had been executed.

633
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: And when I say executing, she's been shot a single

634
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: time in the head. Now that means that to me

635
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: east to me, maybe not to the investigator's handley case,

636
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: this is not an event of overkill, okay, where she

637
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: shot multiple times. If what we're hearing is accurate, that

638
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: means that she has been executed and there was a

639
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 2: distinct plan to kind of get rid of her body

640
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: in this toat. But one thing that always fascinates me

641
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 2: by perpetrator, about perpetrators is that they will they will

642
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: kill somebody and then protect the body. It's counterintuitive, you know,

643
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 2: to what we think. I think that it's significant that

644
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: they covered her in a sense we talk about face

645
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: covering lots of times with bodies that have been found.

646
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: The fact that you couldn't see her, that they had

647
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 2: contained her, and as odd as this is, there was

648
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 2: some level of memorialization to the body. It's not like

649
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 2: she was drugged alongside the road and just kind of

650
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: dumped down. They actually, in a weird way, kind of

651
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 2: casketed the body, which is kind of odd.

652
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 3: As whats important as those plastic toats are to people

653
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: who are trying to keep up with what little they

654
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 3: do have. That's not something that you mentioned the blanket

655
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 3: that was put on top. Now you got the tote.

656
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 3: These are two valuable items, a very valuding on the street.

657
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: Yes, they're they're very valuable. And that you know, all

658
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: your worldly possessions are if you if you happen if

659
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 2: you're homeless and you happen to have a plastic toat,

660
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: that's like it's like your closet, man or your cupboard,

661
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: you know at home, everything that you own, everything that

662
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 2: you possess, is contained therein I'm going to be another

663
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 2: thing about this is that this toat is going to

664
00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 2: be easily tracked as far as manufacturer goes. I think

665
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: they'll be able to glean that information pretty quickly. But

666
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 2: I'd also like to know about the level of wear

667
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 2: on this thing. Is this a brand newtoe? Did somebody

668
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 2: go out and actually purchase this thing expressly for this

669
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 2: purpose okay, and then use it as a vessel to

670
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: place terrors remains in?

671
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: Wow?

672
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: And or is it something that just happened to be laid.

673
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 2: And this comes back to the dirty environment. If it

674
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 2: has been used by a homeless person in an outdoor

675
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 2: environment like this, guess what it's going to have on it.

676
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 2: It's going to have dirt all alongside. You can't avoid it.

677
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: They get a lot of rain in Indiana during the summertime.

678
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: There's systems that pass through. We get them in the

679
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: South too, but they get you know, they get tornadoes

680
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 2: and everything else. If it's sitting out in the open

681
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 2: like this, as the rain begins to splash down, guess

682
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: what it does. It casts off muddy dirt onto the

683
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 2: sides of things. We see it in our backyard. All

684
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: you got to do is go look at something in

685
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 2: your yard that has been out in the elements and

686
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 2: you'll see, well, rain has kind of splashed up. It

687
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: transfers dirt onto that and that'll give you an idea

688
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: of age and anything that's been worn down on these surfaces.

689
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: I think I truly believe Dave that Ta's, that Tara's

690
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 2: case is in fact going to be solved, that somebody

691
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: will in fact be arrested. But here's the thing that

692
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 2: neither you nor I are any of our friends can

693
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: ever get past. There are now five motherless children. You

694
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 2: have got a sister who sister has passed on, and

695
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 2: you've got a grieving mother who all she wanted was

696
00:41:53,960 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 2: answers and to know what happened to her baby. I'm

697
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is bodybags