Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
Speaker 1: My guest today is Taylor Momson of The Pretty Reckless Taylor,
Speaker 1: good to have you here. Thanks for having me. It's
Speaker 1: good to be here. Okay, you spent the last couple
Speaker 1: of years in Maine. How did you end up in Maine.
Speaker 1: A lot of the band is from New England, so
Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time over the past decade
Speaker 1: rehearsing up there, and I used to crash on couches
Speaker 1: or stay at hotels, and after ten years I kind
Speaker 1: of got old, so I finally got a place there
Speaker 1: and uh and uh. We actually made the last record there,
Speaker 1: so it was that that became my second home, and um,
Speaker 1: I love it. It's great. Okay, means a big state
Speaker 1: and I don't want to know the exact address, but
Speaker 1: do you live like close to Boston near Portland's up
Speaker 1: in the Boonies. We're in Maine area. I live about
Speaker 1: forty five minutes from Portland, but it's on an island,
Speaker 1: so it's very much it's very Stephen king Esk in
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere, very Horrorville, which I love. It's
Speaker 1: it's right on the water, which is awesome. Um, very beautiful,
Speaker 1: but very very isolated, which is it's kind of perfect
Speaker 1: because I split my time between New York City and Maine,
Speaker 1: so it's it's the exact opposite of New York City,
Speaker 1: which is is great for writing when you need to
Speaker 1: kind of get inside your own head and you know,
Speaker 1: check out from the rest of the world. It's perfect.
Speaker 1: And how do you get to the island. You drive,
Speaker 1: it's not it's like there's a bridge, but it's a
Speaker 1: very tiny little island with like ten houses and is
Speaker 1: your house on the water? It is on the water.
Speaker 1: It's actually on stilts in the water, which in the
Speaker 1: winter can be a bit scary. Uh. There's always a
Speaker 1: quick chance that it might collapse into the ocean, and
Speaker 1: that can be a little nerve wracking when those gusts
Speaker 1: are coming through. But uh, but no, it's it's very
Speaker 1: cool and very very key to have found a very
Speaker 1: unique place like that. Okay, and electricity internet cable is
Speaker 1: all regular speed or you know, you have the curse
Speaker 1: of the boonies. Nah, there's a bit of a curse.
Speaker 1: The internet, you know, kind of goes in and out
Speaker 1: the waters island water, so it's kind of crappy. Um,
Speaker 1: but but it's it's also you know, it's still a
Speaker 1: modern house too. I mean it's actually was built a
Speaker 1: very long time ago. It was built in like the nine,
Speaker 1: but but it's been modernized since. And are you a
Speaker 1: loner or is this just a good place to be?
Speaker 1: I'm I think it kind of depends on the month.
Speaker 1: I mean we're on tour. I'm certainly not a loner,
Speaker 1: but uh, I know I'm kind of a I would
Speaker 1: say I'm a loner. I have very few friends, and
Speaker 1: you know, very close friends, but very few. And I
Speaker 1: very much appreciate my my alone time and my privacy,
Speaker 1: just me and my dog hanging out and writing music.
Speaker 1: And how far away are your bandmates? I'm not too far.
Speaker 1: I mean the couple of our new hand sure guitar
Speaker 1: player Ben's also in Maine and New York. He splits
Speaker 1: his time as well like I do. Um, so not
Speaker 1: not too far. But we rehearsed in Maine. I we
Speaker 1: have rehearsal space right down the street from me, which
Speaker 1: is awesome. We finally put that together and it's it's
Speaker 1: very good. It's in an old armory, which is very cool. Um,
Speaker 1: very grungy, and uh, I don't know rustic, I guess,
Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, but it's it's it's awesome.
Speaker 1: You can just make noise all the time. And we
Speaker 1: finally set that up, which took about ten years to
Speaker 1: get an actual official rehearsal space for us. So it's, uh,
Speaker 1: I've been a long time coming. And what's a typical
Speaker 1: day for you when you're not rehearsing. What's a typical
Speaker 1: day look like in Maine? Um? Pretty boring, honestly. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, wake up, feed the dog, have some coffee. Uh,
Speaker 1: check the weather, go for a walk, work out a
Speaker 1: little bit, um, play music, write songs. Kind of. I
Speaker 1: kind of stay in my house a lot of the time. Um.
Speaker 1: Of course, when it's beautiful in the summer, I love
Speaker 1: to swim, um in kayak. But I'm a big, big swimmer.
Speaker 1: I do you know, lapse of for hours in the ocean. Um,
Speaker 1: so that's kind of that's my main hobby. I guess that.
Speaker 1: And yeah, wait a second, at this time of year
Speaker 1: in June, the water is really cold. It's really cold.
Speaker 1: It's it's even cold in August, like even in peak
Speaker 1: swimming time. It's freezing never and we don't get that
Speaker 1: nice California water. So you just jump in and then
Speaker 1: endure the shock and wait till you adjust pretty much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and you know, swim until I can't feel my
Speaker 1: hands and feed me more. That's always a good time
Speaker 1: to get out when you go numb. Okay, You're band
Speaker 1: members are older than you? Correct? How much older are they? Um?
Speaker 1: I mean that's a good question. I don't even know
Speaker 1: their actual ages. Um, I just just a number, Bob,
Speaker 1: You know this, it's all about kindred spirits and that's
Speaker 1: how I look at it. But they're they're like ten
Speaker 1: years older than me. Does had you know, affect frame
Speaker 1: of references or any positive or negative to them being
Speaker 1: older than you? No? Um, I think you know. When
Speaker 1: we formed the band, it was they were seasoned musicians,
Speaker 1: which was wonderful for me. Um. They they actually the
Speaker 1: band came about quite organically. We um. The three of them, Mark,
Speaker 1: Ben and Jamie were actually in a band together for
Speaker 1: many years. And I met I was a singer songwriter,
Speaker 1: and I was kind of doing the rounds of working
Speaker 1: with different producers and meeting different people, and I had
Speaker 1: always wanted to be in a band. That was always
Speaker 1: my goal and I had had like, you know, middle
Speaker 1: school bands and things like that, but nothing serious. And uh.
Speaker 1: I met our producer Cato while doing the rounds of
Speaker 1: meeting everyone, and we hit it off immediately, and he
Speaker 1: introduced me to Ben, our guitar player, and threw bound
Speaker 1: I'm at the rest of the band, and I essentially
Speaker 1: heard their band and went, well, I just want I
Speaker 1: want to be in your band, but I want to
Speaker 1: write the songs and I want to be a singer.
Speaker 1: And so that's pretty much what happened. Um. We kind
Speaker 1: of just come comborn combined forces and the pretty recklessness.
Speaker 1: So how do you write the songs? Um? I get
Speaker 1: asked this so much and I wish that there was
Speaker 1: a let me ask you a different question before. Do
Speaker 1: you write them alone or in concert with the other
Speaker 1: band members? Uh? Well, Ben and I are the two
Speaker 1: song writers of the band, so the two of us
Speaker 1: are the only writers, um, and we have a really
Speaker 1: good thing going. I it's there's no formula, and that
Speaker 1: that you know that presents challenges. I wish there was.
Speaker 1: I wish there was a way too. I mean, I
Speaker 1: know how to write in a formula, but that's just
Speaker 1: I don't find that pleasurable. That's not that's not why
Speaker 1: I make music. I make music to express myself and
Speaker 1: when I have something to say, say it, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, music writing music was always this outlet for me,
Speaker 1: uh that it's where I could really be myself and
Speaker 1: really say what I felt and what I thought. And
Speaker 1: it was kind of this this way that I could
Speaker 1: process my emotions and my my thoughts and my brain
Speaker 1: and kind of control the world around me. I guess,
Speaker 1: or let or let let go of the control of
Speaker 1: the world around me. I don't really. It was just
Speaker 1: this place where I could be very honest. Um. And
Speaker 1: so I fell in love with songwriting at a very
Speaker 1: young age. And when I met Ben, he had a
Speaker 1: very similar ethic to me in writing, and it just
Speaker 1: was this kind of seamless transition as to writing together.
Speaker 1: And and there is no formula. That's what makes the challenging.
Speaker 1: There is no it starts with the guitar starts here.
Speaker 1: It just the simple answer is it just it starts
Speaker 1: with an idea and that can come from anywhere, and
Speaker 1: that's that's what makes it tortuous, as you never know
Speaker 1: where it's going to come from or if it's going
Speaker 1: to come and and that can be a very scary
Speaker 1: um time period, especially when you're trying to you know,
Speaker 1: write in a new record and you don't know, you
Speaker 1: don't know where to begin, um. And so it's a
Speaker 1: lot of waiting around. Honestly, it's a lot of waiting
Speaker 1: around for inspiration and something to strike you and that
Speaker 1: turns into a song. And does he always do the music,
Speaker 1: you always do the lyrics? Or do you share those?
Speaker 1: Now we share everything. It's you know, each song is
Speaker 1: done very differently. Um, Like I said, kind of the
Speaker 1: only common thing is that it starts with an idea
Speaker 1: and that can be a lyric, that could be a chord,
Speaker 1: that could be a the sky looks pretty today, like
Speaker 1: it get start at any from any place. Sometimes songs
Speaker 1: come in five minutes. Sometimes they take five years, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's um, it's it's it's interesting. I like I said,
Speaker 1: I always might. I have this stupid joke that I
Speaker 1: always say, and I always say, if I knew where
Speaker 1: inspiration came from, I'd move there. It would make my
Speaker 1: job a whole lot easier. But unfortunately I don't, So
Speaker 1: you just have to kind of wait around for something
Speaker 1: to strike you. And I mean, and there's there's a process,
Speaker 1: I guess, not a process, but a way of doing that,
Speaker 1: which is when I'm when I'm looking to write something, um,
Speaker 1: when I get that itch if I haven't done it
Speaker 1: in a while, or when I'm trying starting to write
Speaker 1: a new record, I surround myself with art and from
Speaker 1: you know, reading books and watching great films and uh,
Speaker 1: listening to great records, and you know, taking long walks
Speaker 1: and looking at great going to museums, looking at great art,
Speaker 1: anything that's anything that could spark some sort of an idea.
Speaker 1: And by listening and looking at the greats that have
Speaker 1: come before me that I always find that very inspiring.
Speaker 1: It just kind of puts my mind in a in
Speaker 1: a place, in a settled place to begin, I guess,
Speaker 1: let's go step by step in the nuts and bolts.
Speaker 1: And I know every story is different. Do you write
Speaker 1: in the same room, do you either he or he
Speaker 1: gets an idea, then you get in the same room.
Speaker 1: Do you send things back and forth? I know where
Speaker 1: there's no road way to do it, but generally, how
Speaker 1: does it go? All of the above? I mean, I've
Speaker 1: lived in the same apartment in New York for at
Speaker 1: right now, for over ten years now, and so this place,
Speaker 1: I think this place has some giju in it. Um.
Speaker 1: I've written pretty much all of all of our songs
Speaker 1: here except for the ones that I wrote in Maine. Um.
Speaker 1: The only kind of constant is its I tend to
Speaker 1: need isolation to write, at least at least to really
Speaker 1: get to the core of it. Like I'm I'm always
Speaker 1: jotting down ideas and and things, but to really kind
Speaker 1: of hone in on what I'm trying to say and
Speaker 1: really focus it into a song that takes That takes isolation,
Speaker 1: that takes away, that takes being away from people like so,
Speaker 1: I tend to not write complete songs very often on
Speaker 1: the road, um, just because it's the whole. It's a
Speaker 1: whole whirlwind of you know, a different kind of lifestyle
Speaker 1: that I hear You're very focused on that, and so
Speaker 1: I it I need that kind of divide and step
Speaker 1: back from life almost to be able to kind of
Speaker 1: put my brain in the right mindset. And if that
Speaker 1: makes it okay, Let's say you have an album you
Speaker 1: want to do, you need material. How long do you
Speaker 1: have to be in isolation to get there. Oh man again,
Speaker 1: I wish I knew. I mean, I think that's probably
Speaker 1: why there's a we have some space in between our albums.
Speaker 1: I mean this last record, Uh, I wrote over the
Speaker 1: course of probably two years, three years. Um. So it's
Speaker 1: it's I don't know. I don't. I don't do it
Speaker 1: like that. I don't write. I don't. I guess I said,
Speaker 1: I sit down to write a record, but it's it's
Speaker 1: not like that. It's not like, Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 1: write an album in the next two months or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's more I'm I'm always writing songs, and once I
Speaker 1: have a collection of songs that are succinct and I'm
Speaker 1: proud of and fit under the umbrella of a record
Speaker 1: that tell this kind of complete story. Um, and I
Speaker 1: feel like that chapter is complete, then then you make
Speaker 1: an album. If that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely so you
Speaker 1: said earlier, this is where you can be honest, this
Speaker 1: is where you can be free. What is the message
Speaker 1: you want to get across. It's a very good question.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know that I have a message
Speaker 1: like that. I think, Um, I think, I just I
Speaker 1: write music to express myself and it makes me feel
Speaker 1: good and it makes me feel better about life. UM.
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, it's it's where I
Speaker 1: can deal with my problems. It's where I can uh.
Speaker 1: But like at this this last album for example, like
Speaker 1: I don't know that there's a message per se. I
Speaker 1: think by the time the album was finished and I
Speaker 1: could take a step back from it, um and listen
Speaker 1: to it almost from an outside perspective, I realized that
Speaker 1: it was actually a very hopeful record. And I think
Speaker 1: that that's kind of what the message became. UM that
Speaker 1: after all this turmoil and very we went through a
Speaker 1: lot of trauma and tragedy in the past few years. Well,
Speaker 1: I was before I was writing the album, or while
Speaker 1: I was writing the album, and uh, and I think
Speaker 1: when I took a step back from that, you know,
Speaker 1: the writing of it and the making of the album
Speaker 1: was me processing and dealing with everything I had gone through,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of almost like my therapy. Um.
Speaker 1: And then when I got to the other side of
Speaker 1: it and actually listened to the record it, I saw
Speaker 1: that it was this very hopeful album. And so I
Speaker 1: think that became the message of death by rock and roll,
Speaker 1: of there is light at the end. Of the tunnel
Speaker 1: if you want to see it. And you know, even
Speaker 1: when things seem very bleak and bad, things do get better.
Speaker 1: And and I think that that's you know, that's kind
Speaker 1: of what that album became. So I don't think I
Speaker 1: have one general message that I'm trying to convey to
Speaker 1: the world or in part other than rock and roll
Speaker 1: is awesome and I'm playing guitars school and writing music
Speaker 1: is super fun. Well, you know, let me let me
Speaker 1: there's a conundrum at the heart of some of the
Speaker 1: greatest artists. They channel their individualism and it resonates with everybody,
Speaker 1: but they're one step removed. They feel like they're in
Speaker 1: their own space or they're alone, or like, you know,
Speaker 1: so you certainly had a lot of success being around
Speaker 1: other people, and certainly if you listen to the earlier material,
Speaker 1: it seems like a reaction to that. So, you know,
Speaker 1: do you feel like you're in your own world and
Speaker 1: therefore you can only just uh, just tell your truth
Speaker 1: in the songs or you're a pretty active social person
Speaker 1: and then you get to be yourself, but you write
Speaker 1: songs too. No, I kind of feel like it's the
Speaker 1: first one. I mean, I definitely feel like like I said,
Speaker 1: music is where I can be myself. Music is where
Speaker 1: I can process my life. Um and and and you know,
Speaker 1: and you can only write. You can only write what
Speaker 1: you know. You can only write your experience as your life.
Speaker 1: And you know, sometimes if you're if you're daring, you
Speaker 1: can delve into things that you see and people that
Speaker 1: are around you and then you can write about that.
Speaker 1: But it's it's a very personal thing because there is
Speaker 1: you can You're limited to only what you know and
Speaker 1: what you feel. And that's so that's that's what I do.
Speaker 1: That's that's how I I don't know, it's just it's
Speaker 1: how I think. Like writing songs make sense to me.
Speaker 1: Music has always made sense to me. It's just the
Speaker 1: language that I understand, um and never really was taught.
Speaker 1: It just was. It always spoke to me in a
Speaker 1: way that nothing else did. And so getting to create
Speaker 1: something from nothing and and purely express yourself is such
Speaker 1: a gift. But it's also it can be very lonely
Speaker 1: because you know, even even if people connect to it
Speaker 1: and understand it, they never will connect to it and
Speaker 1: understand it on the level that I do or I feel.
Speaker 1: If that that makes sense, Okay, the band is going
Speaker 1: on the road. Uh, is that something you like to do?
Speaker 1: I do? Especially now. Well, it's it's a catch twenty
Speaker 1: two now because COVID is still going on, but especially now,
Speaker 1: it's been a long time, like uh, because we lost
Speaker 1: a lot of people very close to us. I kind
Speaker 1: of went into isolation. We made the record, so it
Speaker 1: was about five years until since we had toured UM
Speaker 1: and so to finally be able to play the new
Speaker 1: songs off the new record and be back out on
Speaker 1: the road in front of the fans, it's such a
Speaker 1: breath of fresh air after a five year long break,
Speaker 1: which was not intentional, um, but it is. It is
Speaker 1: still challenging with COVID though, Like you have to be
Speaker 1: very very safe, so it's uh, you kind of you
Speaker 1: live in a bubble, so it's it makes it a
Speaker 1: little less fun, but in one way, it makes the
Speaker 1: shows even more rewarding because that's really your that's where
Speaker 1: you get to um have all the fun because everything
Speaker 1: else is really boring. Right, So what works in terms
Speaker 1: of performance? How do you make the audience connect with
Speaker 1: you beyond the songs themselves. That's a very good question. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I don't,
Speaker 1: I've never I'm not one to super analyze what I
Speaker 1: do because I think if I start to do that,
Speaker 1: then I'll get too in my head about it. Um.
Speaker 1: So as far as performing goes, I just try to
Speaker 1: sing as well as I can and and perform as
Speaker 1: honestly as I can, and really think about what I'm
Speaker 1: saying and what I'm singing, and and try to connect
Speaker 1: to the audience that way, and and just by being
Speaker 1: very honest. And then there's also a you know, an
Speaker 1: element of showmanship of course, when you're on a stage
Speaker 1: that you know, there's lights and there's just makeup, and
Speaker 1: there's you know a bit of extra you know, moving
Speaker 1: around that you don't do in the recording studio and
Speaker 1: things like that. But uh, you know that that makes
Speaker 1: for a fun show. But honestly, I think the the
Speaker 1: most fun and the connection comes from the fans being
Speaker 1: so into it, if that makes sense. And so you
Speaker 1: can really it's this it's a it's a drug that
Speaker 1: you can't really get anywhere else playing live because you
Speaker 1: create this kind of symbiotic relationship with the fans where
Speaker 1: you essentially become one in this in this nightly experience
Speaker 1: that only lasts for one night and then you move
Speaker 1: on to the next town, and it's it's the same
Speaker 1: experience but completely different. And so that it's it's always
Speaker 1: it's like groundhog Day, but never the same. So it's
Speaker 1: it's very cool, it's a very it's it's difficult to
Speaker 1: call it a job. Um, it's it's super super fun.
Speaker 1: The job is the travel, the draw, The job is
Speaker 1: everything around touring, but playing is simply a pleasure. Okay,
Speaker 1: do you have a set list you use every night
Speaker 1: or does the set list change? The set list is
Speaker 1: always ever of all vena. This is this is the first,
Speaker 1: and I won't say the first, but close to the
Speaker 1: first time that we've actually had an issue putting a
Speaker 1: set list together because we finally have we have so
Speaker 1: much material now that we don't know how to hone
Speaker 1: it down. Um, but you know, so we we put
Speaker 1: together kind of a roundabout set lists depending on what
Speaker 1: the shows are for. If it's an opening slot you
Speaker 1: have x amount of time, a festivality of x amount
Speaker 1: of time, and a headline show, you have obviously much
Speaker 1: more leeway to kind of play with um and do
Speaker 1: what you want. But so we have kind of three
Speaker 1: set lists based on times that we work with and
Speaker 1: then depending on the night, depending on how I'm feeling
Speaker 1: and how the guys are feeling, we we alternate a
Speaker 1: few songs and um, switch it up and and and
Speaker 1: that's making it that's making tour and excuse me, that's
Speaker 1: making touring very fun this time around two is that
Speaker 1: it's not the same show every night, so it doesn't
Speaker 1: get monotonous. It doesn't become this kind of your board
Speaker 1: of the material by the third week. You know. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's assume you are the opening band, which you certainly
Speaker 1: have been a number of times in your career. Even worse,
Speaker 1: you might even be playing in daylight and it's it's
Speaker 1: really the headliners audience and you play. How do you
Speaker 1: win over the audience? Mm hmmm, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: wish I again, I wish I had a good answer.
Speaker 1: I wish there was some little trick that you could
Speaker 1: do that it would just magically make everyone love you.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately that's not how the world works. So we
Speaker 1: really just I, you know, I try to treat opening
Speaker 1: shows or any show like it's our own show. And
Speaker 1: that's how that's how I approach it like, we put
Speaker 1: on the best show we possibly can, you know, play
Speaker 1: the hell out of the songs, and and hope that
Speaker 1: people like it and hope that they respond to it.
Speaker 1: And you can't expect everyone in the in the world
Speaker 1: to love you like that's just an unrealistic goal. So, um,
Speaker 1: I think our our goal is to put on a
Speaker 1: show that we're proud of, that we like because I
Speaker 1: love playing in a band. Because I love playing in
Speaker 1: a band. So if I'm having fun, you know, pathetically,
Speaker 1: you should be having fun too. I hope that that translates. Okay,
Speaker 1: so every act needs fans to survive, but the fans
Speaker 1: want a lot. What is your personal relationship with fances, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, are there twenty people you know by face,
Speaker 1: you know by name? Do you want to keep everybody
Speaker 1: at arm's length? What's the situation? Um? Well, social media
Speaker 1: has certainly changed the relationship with fans drastically, um because
Speaker 1: when we started a social media was around, but it
Speaker 1: was certainly not what it is today. Um. So I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, it's a bit of both. I
Speaker 1: think there's there's some super fans that come to every
Speaker 1: show and follow us around the country. And I, you know,
Speaker 1: follow them on Twitter and we'll chat, and I see
Speaker 1: their faces everywhere and know who they are. And then
Speaker 1: there's the kind of the mass, the masses of where
Speaker 1: I don't know you individually, but I'm very appreciative of
Speaker 1: of your support because I can't do this without them,
Speaker 1: And you know, I can still write songs and I'd
Speaker 1: probably still be making records, but you know, no one
Speaker 1: would hear them if I didn't have any fans. So it's, uh,
Speaker 1: it's I feel very fortunate to have fans. And it's
Speaker 1: a it's a fine line of because I'm a very
Speaker 1: I'm a very private person and so I kind of
Speaker 1: struggle writing that line with social media of how much
Speaker 1: of my life do I share and how much do
Speaker 1: I keep private? And I think that it's a it's
Speaker 1: a balance and a kind of teetering act that I'm
Speaker 1: always playing with and trying to get more comfortable with
Speaker 1: sharing more of myself, but at the same time, um
Speaker 1: keeping myself protected to a degree to where I can
Speaker 1: still be myself. And that's not that's not for every
Speaker 1: you know, that's not for everyone. Not everything about me
Speaker 1: is for everyone. Everything everything that I put into the
Speaker 1: music and that I put forth into the world is
Speaker 1: for everybody. But the you know, I still have my
Speaker 1: private life that I keep just for myself as a
Speaker 1: human beings. So it's this fine balance that I'm always
Speaker 1: kind of toying with, and I still haven't quite figured
Speaker 1: it out. I think, well, if you had any personal
Speaker 1: bad experience this result of fans, you know, one in
Speaker 1: ten fans is literally certifiably insane. It's just you don't
Speaker 1: know which one it is. We have certainly had some
Speaker 1: some crazy experiences with fans, some that have gotten a
Speaker 1: bit out of hand, um, more physical. I mean, well, no,
Speaker 1: it's but there's been both. I mean, I don't I
Speaker 1: can't get into it. But we've had stalker issues with
Speaker 1: where literally the FBI has been called and been deposed
Speaker 1: and and you know, very serious issues that I'm not
Speaker 1: actually really allowed to talk to talk about. Um. So
Speaker 1: there's that side of things, which is super fun and
Speaker 1: totally totally not scary at all. Um. But then there's
Speaker 1: you know, the crazy encounters that shows and things where
Speaker 1: like we I used to bring I used to bring
Speaker 1: fans up on stage during a song called going Down.
Speaker 1: That was this very fun moment in the show, and
Speaker 1: I did that for years, and we went to We're
Speaker 1: playing in China, and I brought fans up and the
Speaker 1: chaos that ensued on stage, the the aggression and mayhem
Speaker 1: where it just it got a little out of hand
Speaker 1: and we didn't have security and it got dangerous where
Speaker 1: my hair was ripped out of my head a girl.
Speaker 1: The groping became very um unmanageable where I couldn't defend myself,
Speaker 1: and so we had to stop doing that. So there's,
Speaker 1: you know, certain antics we had to kind of tone
Speaker 1: down just for personal safety, physical safety and things like that.
Speaker 1: But but in general, I think fans are just they're
Speaker 1: just enthusiasts. You know, I'm a fan. I'm a fan
Speaker 1: of music. So it's it's getting to see your artists.
Speaker 1: You want to let loose and have fun, but you know,
Speaker 1: just just don't go just don't go too far. Okay,
Speaker 1: you started off with theme from television. Was that a
Speaker 1: good thing or a bad thing for your musical career?
Speaker 1: I think it was a catch twenty two. I think
Speaker 1: I think that in in one way it was. It
Speaker 1: was great because I had, you know, I had some
Speaker 1: name recognition, and so when we put out the first album,
Speaker 1: there was an immediate kind of there's an immediate attention
Speaker 1: put on it where you know, it was put out
Speaker 1: in a in a real way where you know, we
Speaker 1: could play a show and people would show up. Um.
Speaker 1: But in the grand scheme of things, I think that
Speaker 1: it was actually quite detrimental because it was a It
Speaker 1: was an extremely hard thing to overcome people's perception of
Speaker 1: me and that you know, people saw me as this
Speaker 1: character that they watched on TV every week. And I
Speaker 1: fully understand that. I fully understand watching your favorite TV
Speaker 1: show and seeing that actor as the character that you
Speaker 1: see on television. They're not a real person, they're that character.
Speaker 1: And so to kind of to disassociate myself from that
Speaker 1: character and have people see me as myself and as
Speaker 1: a musician and and as everything that I truly was
Speaker 1: inside was was challenging. And to kind of gain you know,
Speaker 1: there was a hurdle to kind of overcome, to gain credibility,
Speaker 1: where I think a lot of people saw this as
Speaker 1: like some sort of vanity project or this fleeing thing, like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: she's putting on a record because she can and whatever.
Speaker 1: When and when in reality, it was music is everything.
Speaker 1: That I am and everything that I have to give,
Speaker 1: and I was trying to share that with the world
Speaker 1: and getting kind of hit from me from multiple sides
Speaker 1: of it's hard to it's hard to prove yourself and
Speaker 1: and because there's no real way to do it, there's
Speaker 1: no good way to do it. You can't sit there
Speaker 1: and tell someone no, I'm this, and they're going to no,
Speaker 1: you're this, and that arguing about it doesn't do anything.
Speaker 1: So it really just took time. It took to doing
Speaker 1: this for ten years and continuing to put out music
Speaker 1: and continuing to tour to have people kind of have
Speaker 1: that shift happened where people see me as Taylor Mompson
Speaker 1: and not this character I played, And so that was
Speaker 1: a bit of a challenge, but it's it feels good
Speaker 1: to be on the other side of it finally. Okay,
Speaker 1: when you made this transition, talking about the insight, you know,
Speaker 1: you have an age and maybe you have a manager,
Speaker 1: you have an attorney, you have people are making money
Speaker 1: from you. Okay, what did they say when you wanted
Speaker 1: to be a musician? Oh man, they were not well
Speaker 1: when I when I said that I wanted to pursue music,
Speaker 1: they were all for that when I said I wanted
Speaker 1: to quit everything else to pursue music, and that was that.
Speaker 1: Gods of phone calls. People were not happy about that, um,
Speaker 1: because it was actually it was a big fight of mine. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I was on the show gossip Girl and
Speaker 1: it was doing extremely well. And I became as I
Speaker 1: was getting older. You know, I started acting when I
Speaker 1: was two years old. I was put into it with
Speaker 1: my family. Um. You know, no no resentment there or anything.
Speaker 1: You know. I think all those stories kind of got
Speaker 1: blown out of proportion. When I was younger, I said
Speaker 1: some crazy things and they got taken out of context.
Speaker 1: But you know, I started acting when I was very young.
Speaker 1: But it was never this. It was never something that
Speaker 1: I chose for myself. It was something that I just
Speaker 1: always did and I didn't really know any differently. And
Speaker 1: when I started to get a little older in my
Speaker 1: teenage years, I had this kind of revelation where I realized, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't have to do this, Like this
Speaker 1: is a job that I can quit. And it was
Speaker 1: like this, you know, lightning one off in my mind
Speaker 1: where it was like, oh, this is so simple. I
Speaker 1: can just play in a band. I can just write
Speaker 1: songs and do what I love. I don't have to
Speaker 1: do this other thing amazing woman to do that. And
Speaker 1: so when I made that decision in my head and
Speaker 1: then proceeded to tell everyone that, that's when I got
Speaker 1: a bit of, you know, a bit of a reaction,
Speaker 1: but a bit of backlash. And it was it was
Speaker 1: actually quite challenging to leave the show because I was
Speaker 1: under contract. So it turns out quitting was not that easy. Um,
Speaker 1: And so it was that it was a very long
Speaker 1: process of me trying to get out of out of
Speaker 1: the show. And I really came down to I had
Speaker 1: to call. I called Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage, the
Speaker 1: Cree leaders and writers, and begged them. I just begged them.
Speaker 1: I want this is making This isn't making me happy anymore.
Speaker 1: This is this is this is not what I want
Speaker 1: to be doing with my life. I'm very thankful for
Speaker 1: everything you've given me and the platform that you've put
Speaker 1: me on, and this has all been a great experience.
Speaker 1: But I'm as a person and as a as a
Speaker 1: growing woman, I need to go explore what I really
Speaker 1: want to do. And they because cw the head of
Speaker 1: Warren brothers had a c W. He was not uh,
Speaker 1: he was not going to let me out of my contract.
Speaker 1: So there was no way to get out of it.
Speaker 1: And so thankfully Stephanie and Josh, actually they want, we
Speaker 1: can't let you out of your deal, but what we
Speaker 1: can do is we can write your character out. Um.
Speaker 1: So that's what they did, and so they slowly kind
Speaker 1: of transition my character out of by writing it that
Speaker 1: way and allowed for me to go on tour and
Speaker 1: and really pursue my passion. And for that, I'm just
Speaker 1: forever grateful and indebted because they just they didn't have
Speaker 1: to do that, and I wouldn't be where I am
Speaker 1: now if they hadn't. So I'm just can't say thank
Speaker 1: you to them enough. Okay, if you're working on a
Speaker 1: TV show until you're on hiatus, the hours are unbelievably long,
Speaker 1: you know, and you almost can't live a life. So
Speaker 1: you can look at your bank account. You're getting paid,
Speaker 1: but you're not really spending any money, not thinking about it.
Speaker 1: And certainly once the show was picked up, it gets
Speaker 1: relatively lucrative. Generally speaking, music doesn't pay that well, especially
Speaker 1: not at the beginning. So once you got to the
Speaker 1: other side, you're extricated, you make a record. Whatever did
Speaker 1: you ever think, holy funk, what did I do? Or
Speaker 1: did you say, wait a second, this isn't what I
Speaker 1: thought it was going to be. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: I was making to speak about long hours for a second,
Speaker 1: because yeah, they're long hours. I mean, I was making
Speaker 1: the first album Light Me Up while I was still
Speaker 1: on the show. So I was going to work at
Speaker 1: four in the morning, working until about seven at night,
Speaker 1: and then going straight to the studio and king in
Speaker 1: the studio toel I don't know, two in the morning,
Speaker 1: sleeping about two hours a night, and going right back
Speaker 1: to work. So I was burning the candle at both ends.
Speaker 1: And I think that was part of my decision to
Speaker 1: leave the show as well as It's just like I
Speaker 1: can't physically do both these things and one of them
Speaker 1: I love and can't not do um, So that was
Speaker 1: that was a challenge, and it's I get well now,
Speaker 1: I just kind of lost my train of thought because
Speaker 1: what was your question. I'm sorry, Bob. You know, once
Speaker 1: you finally extricate yourself and you are a musician, did
Speaker 1: you have any second thoughts and did you ultimately confront
Speaker 1: money issues? Like, Wow, this is gonna be hard. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to adjust things. Well. Money issues, of course,
Speaker 1: money issues is always a I think that's something that
Speaker 1: no matter what level of life you've reached, you're always
Speaker 1: you know, I think even the biggest actors in the world,
Speaker 1: you know, they still have money issues, right, Like doesn't everyone,
Speaker 1: So you know that's but that's something that's something you
Speaker 1: figure out as you go. Um as far as thinking
Speaker 1: did I make the right decision or or asking anything
Speaker 1: like that, that was that was never a question. As
Speaker 1: soon as I left and was just doing music full time,
Speaker 1: I finally felt free. I finally felt happy in a
Speaker 1: way that I'd never I never really felt in my
Speaker 1: life before. And then that's you know, that's the feeling
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't trade anything for. You know, I'll be broken.
Speaker 1: I'd rather be broken happy than rich and and unhappy.
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, you grow up in Seeing Louis, how
Speaker 1: do you end up in show business? It's a good question.
Speaker 1: I again, none of this is from my memory, but
Speaker 1: the story goes uh that I my mom had some
Speaker 1: photographer friends who took some photos of me when I
Speaker 1: was like one and two. They somehow got sent to
Speaker 1: a modeling agency. Um, I got so, I got it
Speaker 1: started with I got signed to Ford Modeling when I
Speaker 1: was two and somewhere and going on calls for modeling gigs.
Speaker 1: I I guess I was very chatty. I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not sure. I remember myself being a very shy kid,
Speaker 1: but I guess I was very talkative when I was little.
Speaker 1: And uh, my modeling agents said, you know, she should
Speaker 1: go on auditions, and so that was kind of the
Speaker 1: quick transition and to suddenly I was going on acting auditions.
Speaker 1: And I actually booked my first audition, which was for
Speaker 1: a commercial for Shake and Bake, and so that was
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, the opening of the doors, I guess.
Speaker 1: And from that it was just my my family, Mom
Speaker 1: and I would travel and go on auditions. We'd spend
Speaker 1: summers in New York. Um, and just go back and forth.
Speaker 1: I was kind of in and out of school and um, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then that's kind of how that happened. Okay, so
Speaker 1: how many kids in the family, Just me and my
Speaker 1: younger sister. Okay, the younger sister followed this path at all.
Speaker 1: She she went on some auditions when she was younger,
Speaker 1: but she didn't. It wasn't the same thing as it
Speaker 1: was with me. So she did a couple of small
Speaker 1: roles when she was younger, and then that was it.
Speaker 1: And what did your father do when you and your
Speaker 1: mother were out working? He worked. He was a full
Speaker 1: time a full time job. I still never really understood
Speaker 1: what he did, but when he does. He he worked
Speaker 1: with electronics. He worked for a company called gp X. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that he designed the
Speaker 1: discman like he before computers and stuff. He would draw
Speaker 1: the actual like what the new walkman and stuff would
Speaker 1: look like. Um. So he was on the creative side
Speaker 1: of of physical uh music players, which was actually quite cool.
Speaker 1: And then uh, and now he works for now he's
Speaker 1: works for another company. And I probably shouldn't go into
Speaker 1: what he does because I don't know if he'd like that.
Speaker 1: But but he was. He was at home working, and
Speaker 1: my mom and I would travel. And with your mom
Speaker 1: when you're two years old, that's fun. At some point,
Speaker 1: he gets old. At some point. I don't know that
Speaker 1: the travel ever got old. I loved going to different places.
Speaker 1: I loved New York City because that's where it started.
Speaker 1: Is we would we would go to New York in
Speaker 1: the summers when I was out of school and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of rent a place for a couple
Speaker 1: of months and I'd go on auditions and and do
Speaker 1: that thing there, and I fell in love with the city.
Speaker 1: Was so it makes it makes a lot of sense
Speaker 1: that I still live here. Um. I love the energy
Speaker 1: of it. And so the traveling I think was actually
Speaker 1: quite fun. But the constantly not really being in school
Speaker 1: and not really having a a traditional childhood, I guess
Speaker 1: certainly kind of took its toll on me in certain
Speaker 1: ways where I became very introverted because I didn't have
Speaker 1: a lot of friends. I didn't know how to connect
Speaker 1: to normal kids my age, I guess because I was
Speaker 1: living in this very different life than they were, and
Speaker 1: so it put me in this very kind of isolated
Speaker 1: internal bubble, which is honestly when I turned to writing music,
Speaker 1: I started writing music before I even really knew what
Speaker 1: I was doing. I guess I started writing songs and
Speaker 1: you know, just how I was feeling, and I write
Speaker 1: it down and I put it to melody and little
Speaker 1: poems and things as as a kid like, you know,
Speaker 1: terrible songs, but songs nonetheless, and that's kind of where
Speaker 1: I fell in love with it. Of this, of this
Speaker 1: this world that I could create inside my own head,
Speaker 1: that nobody he could touch, and it was just mine.
Speaker 1: And um, it made me feel safe, I guess. So
Speaker 1: what was it like going to school? And then eventually
Speaker 1: when you get on a series, you're not in regular
Speaker 1: school at all? No? Um, well in I mean elementary
Speaker 1: school was in then out of school a lot uh where.
Speaker 1: But I was still in school. I was in Catholic school.
Speaker 1: And so when I would go do a role or something,
Speaker 1: um and be gone for a couple of months, the
Speaker 1: school would give me my work and I would do
Speaker 1: it on set with a tutor. Um. So I was
Speaker 1: technically still enrolled in a school. And then when I
Speaker 1: moved to New York when I booked Gossip Girl, I
Speaker 1: moved here when I was twelve or thirteen. Um, officially,
Speaker 1: I spent about it. I spent my freshman year of
Speaker 1: high school trying to go to a school, trying to
Speaker 1: go to a public school here in the city. Um,
Speaker 1: and just the work hours are so nuts that I
Speaker 1: gave up on that. I gave up on that and
Speaker 1: left and and just homeschooled and ended up graduating high
Speaker 1: school when I was like sixteen. Um, just by doing
Speaker 1: it on set with the tutor and just knock on
Speaker 1: the workout. Do you have any regrets you didn't go
Speaker 1: to college. No, I don't, but I thought about it.
Speaker 1: I wanted to go for like for writing or something,
Speaker 1: you know, something language arts or something like that. But
Speaker 1: I also think that college is something that you can
Speaker 1: always go back to. UM. And I'm I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1: I never would do that either, if you know, if
Speaker 1: I wanted to learn a different skill, because I think
Speaker 1: it's always good to better yourself, but you can do
Speaker 1: that at any age. UM. But no, I joined a
Speaker 1: rock and roll band. There's no regrets. What sixteen year
Speaker 1: old doesn't want to fift I'm sorry, fifteen year old
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be in a rock and roll band
Speaker 1: and tour of the country. I got to do that
Speaker 1: and it's awesome. Okay, so you're on a TV show.
Speaker 1: What's it like having all that attention? Um? It was.
Speaker 1: It was definitely different than what I was used to
Speaker 1: because I had been you know, I had been acting
Speaker 1: my whole life, and I've been in lots of roles
Speaker 1: and you know, some more high profile than other but
Speaker 1: never involved in the tabloid aspect of things. And Gossip
Speaker 1: Girl was a that was a transition to get in,
Speaker 1: an adjustment, to get used to where suddenly and you
Speaker 1: walked out of your house there was you know, paparazzi
Speaker 1: on the street and they're following you around and uh,
Speaker 1: and suddenly your personal life became public literally being photographed
Speaker 1: and put into into for public consumption. And so that
Speaker 1: was that was different. That was strange, um because it
Speaker 1: happened overnight too. It was very There was no like
Speaker 1: slowly getting more and more famous. It was no one
Speaker 1: knows who you are, and the next day there's thirty
Speaker 1: people outside your house. And so it was very shocking,
Speaker 1: I think at first. But I think I've adapted quickly
Speaker 1: to it and and kind of got used to it.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think Liam is Liam Gallagher. I
Speaker 1: think Liam Gallagher said, He's like, you know, fame is
Speaker 1: this kind of thing that you just keep keep kicking
Speaker 1: over your shoulder. It's this this this nuisance. It's there,
Speaker 1: but it's you know, it's not what it's about. It's
Speaker 1: it's very fleeting, and it's just this thing that is
Speaker 1: around and you just learn to manage it. Okay, A
Speaker 1: lot of people who are very famous at that age
Speaker 1: grow up very fast. They drink, they do drugs, they
Speaker 1: have sex. What was your experience, Well, um, I think
Speaker 1: if you listen to my albums, it's probably some indication
Speaker 1: of what my life is like. Um But no, I
Speaker 1: mean I I certainly grew up very quickly. Um. I
Speaker 1: you know I've never had friends at my own age
Speaker 1: that all my friends are older than me, even when
Speaker 1: I was like a kid. Um but I think that's
Speaker 1: just that's just subject to my surroundings. You know, That's
Speaker 1: not that wasn't necessarily by choice. It's just the people
Speaker 1: that I could identify with and communicate with and and
Speaker 1: felt a kindred you know, spirit with or whatever just
Speaker 1: happened to always be older, just due to the my
Speaker 1: life circumstances. Um. So, I certainly you know I grew
Speaker 1: up quickly, and I've I've now mellowed out in my
Speaker 1: old age of eight. So you're writing songs from a
Speaker 1: young age. At what point do you say to yourself,
Speaker 1: wait a second, I can do this. I want to
Speaker 1: do it. I think I always knew that, and it
Speaker 1: was always something that I was pursuing, um, just the differences.
Speaker 1: When you're you know, a led ten eleven years old.
Speaker 1: You can have an acting career, but I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone wants to listen to what a ten year old
Speaker 1: has to say in music, at least I hope not. UM.
Speaker 1: So you know, I had to get to an age
Speaker 1: where I had enough life experience and I had enough
Speaker 1: um enough, I had enough things to say that we're
Speaker 1: you know, important and relevant and and get to and also,
Speaker 1: you write a lot of bad songs before you write
Speaker 1: good ones. It's just you know, how it goes. And
Speaker 1: so I had to get to a place where I
Speaker 1: actually wrote a record's worth of material that I genuinely
Speaker 1: wanted the world to hear in and I was super
Speaker 1: proud of and wanted to put out in a public way. Um.
Speaker 1: And so that's really all it was. It was just
Speaker 1: a lot of practice and when I finally met the
Speaker 1: right people, formed the band, you know, wrote records worth
Speaker 1: of songs that I was really proud of. It all
Speaker 1: just kind of came together very seamlessly, um, in this
Speaker 1: very chismic kind of magical way that you know, it's
Speaker 1: very lucky in in this world. I think like it.
Speaker 1: You know, finding finding musical partners and like minded people
Speaker 1: is a challenge. And the fact that it kind of
Speaker 1: all just everything just kind of fell into place at once,
Speaker 1: that that's kind of that's the best way to say it.
Speaker 1: We're just all kind of clicked and it was just
Speaker 1: it flowed like water. You listen to your music, it's
Speaker 1: what we call active rock today. Maybe I would think
Speaker 1: that'd be the best description. And although you talk about
Speaker 1: your influences online, the first thing I hear is a
Speaker 1: C d C. This is very different from when a
Speaker 1: C d C was really happening in late seventies and
Speaker 1: early eighties, where everything mixed together. One could say that
Speaker 1: hard rock is its own ghetto. Most people who have
Speaker 1: fame in other areas going to pop okay, stuff that
Speaker 1: Spotify Top fifty, work with producers, etcetera. How did you
Speaker 1: decide to go? I'm sure the music led you there,
Speaker 1: but you're a smart person. You must have realized where
Speaker 1: you were going. I did. I didn't. I didn't. I
Speaker 1: I didn't think I was that calculated. I wasn't because
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing I wasn't making music for fame and
Speaker 1: success like that was never my goal. I already had
Speaker 1: that to a degree with something else, so I knew,
Speaker 1: I had experienced that. I knew what that was, and
Speaker 1: that was never a goal of mine. It was something
Speaker 1: that it just was. It was. It wasn't necessarily interesting
Speaker 1: to me. I you know, I really got into music
Speaker 1: because I wanted to express myself, and rock and roll
Speaker 1: was always just what I loved, you know, It's what
Speaker 1: I grew up with. That's what I grew up with
Speaker 1: listening to and fell in love with. And you know,
Speaker 1: the depth of the music from you know, they started
Speaker 1: they started with the Beatles, which is you know, not uncommon,
Speaker 1: I would say, but I fell in love with the Beatles,
Speaker 1: and then Led Zeppelin and the Who and Pink Floyd
Speaker 1: and A. C. D. C. And Neil Young and uh,
Speaker 1: when I got a little older, it was you know,
Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendrix, and then all the nineties stuff with Sound
Speaker 1: Garden and Nirvana and Oasis and Pearl Jam and and
Speaker 1: and just every every band and artist that I loved
Speaker 1: was under the genre of rock and roll where it
Speaker 1: was just this kind of pure, the purest form of
Speaker 1: self expression and an aggression and vulnerability and and it
Speaker 1: was smart. Um you know, it had depth and it
Speaker 1: had layers to it, and it wasn't this kind of fleeting,
Speaker 1: you can bop your head to it music. It was
Speaker 1: something that you could really sit with and and and
Speaker 1: escape into and go somewhere else. And that's that's the
Speaker 1: kind of music that I always um loved and and
Speaker 1: still love and and that's the kind of music that
Speaker 1: I wanted to make. Um that and I also just
Speaker 1: love electric guitars because they're super fun. So okay, so
Speaker 1: you've had I think five number one you know, rock tracks,
Speaker 1: But you can have a number one rock track and
Speaker 1: of America doesn't even know who you are, never mind
Speaker 1: heard the track. Is that frustrating? I think that it's
Speaker 1: a good question. I don't I don't know that I've
Speaker 1: ever looked at it in a way of frustration. I
Speaker 1: think that I think that there's music that deserves to
Speaker 1: be I think that there's you know, rock and roll
Speaker 1: has become this very niche market. I don't think that
Speaker 1: that's a you know, a surprise to anyone, and I
Speaker 1: don't think that that's necessarily deserved. Um. I think that
Speaker 1: how do I want to say this? And you know,
Speaker 1: to meet Rocket, you have to remember that rock and
Speaker 1: rolls alway has been on the outskirts. You know, it's
Speaker 1: it's never really been at the forefront of pop culture
Speaker 1: except for in the moments where it takes over. And
Speaker 1: and to me, music is very cyclical, like it's you know,
Speaker 1: if you look at the history of music over time,
Speaker 1: like starting with say, starting with like the fifties, the fifties,
Speaker 1: it was very single bass, very pop um, and you know,
Speaker 1: then the sixties and seventies came in where there was
Speaker 1: this kind of renaissance of artists and musicians that overtook
Speaker 1: the formula that was um did the uh the industry,
Speaker 1: and you know, it overtook the industry this pure expression
Speaker 1: where it was just undeniably great, and rock and roll
Speaker 1: had this you know, renaissance and resurgence. And then the
Speaker 1: eighties came in and I think everyone tried to kind
Speaker 1: of emulate something and everything started to kind of lean
Speaker 1: a little bit more towards the pop vein of um.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a bit of a lack of depth
Speaker 1: in my opinion. And then the nineties came and there
Speaker 1: was your next resurgence with grunge and Nirvana and song
Speaker 1: ern and prol Jam and where and everyone Else and
Speaker 1: chains YadA YadA, where it just it over. It was
Speaker 1: so raw and so honest and so just the purest
Speaker 1: form of expression that it was undeniably great and it
Speaker 1: moved everybody. And that's the kind of music that I
Speaker 1: strive to make. And I think that that's the kind
Speaker 1: of music that every artist strive to make, necessarily in
Speaker 1: that genre, but music that is so passionate that it
Speaker 1: touches people whether you want it to or not. And
Speaker 1: I think that that, you know, and then after the nineties,
Speaker 1: it's hard to find musicians like that, in bands that
Speaker 1: are that great. You know, there they're anomalies. And that's
Speaker 1: why it's an unn you know, from an industry standpoint,
Speaker 1: you can't manufacture that. You can't constantly make that. And
Speaker 1: I think that's why pop always ends up coming and
Speaker 1: rising to the surface again. And so I think right
Speaker 1: now we're just in the process of waiting for the
Speaker 1: next rock and roll resurgence where it comes back because
Speaker 1: it can't die. It's too primal. That's what rock and
Speaker 1: roll is to me. It's it's it's so primal, it's
Speaker 1: the ultimate freedom. And when when you hit the nail
Speaker 1: on the head. It's it's undeniable, and I think that
Speaker 1: we're just waiting for that next moment, and I hope that,
Speaker 1: you know, we could be a part of that that resurgence.
Speaker 1: And it's never it's never gonna look like what you
Speaker 1: think it's gonna look like either, um, and so you know,
Speaker 1: always keeping my eyes peeled, I guess, Okay, Pretty Reckless
Speaker 1: has been on four different labels. How come? Um, Well,
Speaker 1: it's ah, every album we've been on a different record label. UM.
Speaker 1: Partially partially because I'm very I like to maintain creative control, UM.
Speaker 1: And so I don't like having people in my ear,
Speaker 1: especially from an industry side of things, telling me what
Speaker 1: I can and can't say, or can't you can't write,
Speaker 1: or I don't like having and only having people in
Speaker 1: the studio. I don't like A and R, I don't
Speaker 1: like I don't like people telling me what to make
Speaker 1: and so I I found that for me it works
Speaker 1: best to kind of create, create what I want to make,
Speaker 1: make the album, and create this finished product and then
Speaker 1: pass it around to the people and let them listen
Speaker 1: and and then find the best partner for that record
Speaker 1: and see who's the most enthused, and who's the who
Speaker 1: makes the most sense, Who's who's really behind it and
Speaker 1: gets what I'm trying to say and what we're trying
Speaker 1: to go, what we're going for, and and who can
Speaker 1: help put that out into the world in the best
Speaker 1: way possible. So that's what That's kind of what's happened
Speaker 1: with every album is I've licensed the records, I make them,
Speaker 1: and then I licensed them to who. Okay, but usually
Speaker 1: they want a longer commitment to go into business with you.
Speaker 1: So ay, when you were with Interscope, a traditional major label,
Speaker 1: did they want you to do things? Did they want
Speaker 1: to get it involved creatively or marking and the way
Speaker 1: you didn't like it? And did you have to negotiate
Speaker 1: a split or did they only have one record or
Speaker 1: did they say we're done? Um? Interscope was well, they
Speaker 1: certainly they certainly wanted to push me into more of
Speaker 1: a pop vein which I fully understand um, and I
Speaker 1: was very resistant against that and very definitive in in
Speaker 1: the music that I was making and was not going
Speaker 1: to bend uh. And so that relationship kind of kind
Speaker 1: of just we hit a point where it just we
Speaker 1: were both going in different directions and it just wasn't working.
Speaker 1: And I also, I thankfully have had very good management,
Speaker 1: so who helped me kind of get out of that
Speaker 1: out of that deal. Um. But it's basically what I've
Speaker 1: done is I've I've tried to create a very good
Speaker 1: team of people around me that are in my core
Speaker 1: unit that I've selected myself over the course of um
Speaker 1: a decade or so, and that's who I trust with,
Speaker 1: and that's you know, that's where the the grand plan
Speaker 1: you know, I wish there was one, but the grand
Speaker 1: plans formulated and then the labels become this kind of um,
Speaker 1: you know, addition that we add to the team on
Speaker 1: each album based on where we're at as a unit. Okay,
Speaker 1: so they got a Razor and Tie. Razor and Tie
Speaker 1: is basically known at the time. It's now part of Concorde,
Speaker 1: but it was independent then, primarily known for kids bop
Speaker 1: catalog releases. They didn't have a ton of success with
Speaker 1: their new music label. What was it like being on
Speaker 1: Razor and Tie as opposed to Interscope. It was, that's
Speaker 1: a good question. It was very in one way very
Speaker 1: similar and one way very different. Um. You know, I
Speaker 1: think the first thing is that we we made. They
Speaker 1: knew what they were getting. Razor Time knew what they
Speaker 1: were getting with us. They knew, you know, they had
Speaker 1: heard the album. They knew what they what the product product.
Speaker 1: I hate being called the product, but it is. It
Speaker 1: is at the end of the day, they knew what
Speaker 1: the product was. They knew what they were trying to sell.
Speaker 1: And so you know when we met with them, UM
Speaker 1: and Cliff the president at the time, he was just
Speaker 1: he was very he was a music lover. He seemed
Speaker 1: to very he seemed to stand the record UM on
Speaker 1: a on a very deep level, which I appreciated. UM
Speaker 1: and it and they had a it just it I
Speaker 1: don't know, you know how you know how industry is.
Speaker 1: It just kind of all clicked and it made sense.
Speaker 1: It made sense at the time. And uh and I
Speaker 1: think we did. You know, they did a great job
Speaker 1: with it. Like we had our first number one on
Speaker 1: that record. So it was, you know, we weren't under
Speaker 1: the major label umbrella, but I had all the freedom
Speaker 1: in the world to to to do and be who
Speaker 1: and how I wanted to be. And and that's that's
Speaker 1: what I'm going for, is is you know, I've I've
Speaker 1: played the character. I've done the game, and I just
Speaker 1: want to I want the music and the art to
Speaker 1: speak for itself and I want that to which I
Speaker 1: know is sometimes an unrealistic goal, but I want that
Speaker 1: to be at the forefront and I want and I
Speaker 1: want it to be my way or not do it
Speaker 1: at all, because I just don't see the point if
Speaker 1: it's not my way. And so that's kind of where
Speaker 1: the licensing of albums seemed to make the most answer
Speaker 1: for me and has until this point and still does so,
Speaker 1: where I just I really don't have to give anything away.
Speaker 1: I can. I can maintain all the artistic control, and
Speaker 1: that's the most important thing to me. Okay, I must say,
Speaker 1: as you talk, you give the impression that everything's hunky dory,
Speaker 1: everything's great, the label's great, got out of your TV deal,
Speaker 1: you've got a good management, whatever. But those of us
Speaker 1: on the inside, no, it's never that way. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of frustration, a lot of angst. So can you
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about that. Even the most
Speaker 1: successful acts. Oh, I mean there's tons of there's tons
Speaker 1: of frustration and challenges and angst and everything that comes
Speaker 1: up all the time. But you know, honestly, right now,
Speaker 1: I'm there's not really too many issues, which I haven't
Speaker 1: been able to say for a long time because there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of personal issues and everything is kind
Speaker 1: of hunky dorry for lack of a better term, right now,
Speaker 1: and it and it feels good to be in that place.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I was going to go down memory lane,
Speaker 1: which I could do, but I would honestly have to
Speaker 1: get the band and help in here just to remember
Speaker 1: everything because it's you know, it moves quickly, and there's
Speaker 1: a there's a lot of a lot of stuff has
Speaker 1: happened that to even remember all the little details. But
Speaker 1: but no, I mean getting off the television show that
Speaker 1: was not easy. That was extremely hard. That was tons
Speaker 1: of fighting and arguing and back and forth and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and it eventually ended in a place that
Speaker 1: that was pleasing to both parties. Um, it's you know,
Speaker 1: same thing with Endoscope get you know, getting out of
Speaker 1: a deal that didn't fit what I you know, didn't
Speaker 1: fit the picture of what I wanted my career to
Speaker 1: look like was super challenging. You know. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot there's been lots of challenges and lots of fighting
Speaker 1: throughout the years, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I you gotta let all that go because if it's
Speaker 1: not currently happening, then what's the point of hanging onto it.
Speaker 1: Like life's too hard as it is, you gotta move.
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit of a hippie in that way, like,
Speaker 1: move on, next thing. Okay, So today it is you know,
Speaker 1: you're at the center, You're in the universe. You get
Speaker 1: to pray, depressed taking anti depressants? Are you always upbeat too?
Speaker 1: Your active? You know, what's your inner life like? Um?
Speaker 1: I certainly struggle with ups and downs. Um. I think
Speaker 1: that I always have and and I went through a
Speaker 1: very bad bout with depression over the past few years
Speaker 1: while making this album. Um, we lost many people close
Speaker 1: to us, and that took me down a very dark
Speaker 1: path of depression and substance abuse and and everything that
Speaker 1: comes along with loss. Um that I wasn't equipped to handle.
Speaker 1: And it's, you know, to make a long story short,
Speaker 1: that's that's where Death by Rock and Roll came from.
Speaker 1: It was it was me pretty much at my lowest
Speaker 1: and using trying to use music to to pull myself
Speaker 1: out of this hole that I didn't know how to
Speaker 1: get out of and it. And now I'm at now
Speaker 1: you know, I've made that record, I've I've grown a
Speaker 1: lot in the past few years, and now I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to get back to life. I guess if that
Speaker 1: makes sense. I mean, we you know, I spent so
Speaker 1: long in isolation and then COVID obviously you know everyone did,
Speaker 1: but that just extended this the sentence that I had
Speaker 1: put on myself another two years. And so now I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to kind of get back into the world
Speaker 1: again and see how that feels and try you know,
Speaker 1: try those try those shoes on, because it's been a minute,
Speaker 1: and you know, get back out there and tour and
Speaker 1: play and and see the fans and um, and just
Speaker 1: try to live. I guess a little bit um and that,
Speaker 1: you know when I still struggle with ups and downs
Speaker 1: and and of course like everyone does, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: some are more severe than others. And I don't really
Speaker 1: have a good answer to get out of it. Uh,
Speaker 1: I wish I did. I tend to always turn to music,
Speaker 1: as cliche as it sounds, That's that's where my head goes,
Speaker 1: because it's it's somewhere that I can escape and somewhere
Speaker 1: that I can also feel secure, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like a I don't know, there's
Speaker 1: there's music for every emotion and and and you know
Speaker 1: when you scroll through when I scroll through my records,
Speaker 1: I can always find a song for what I for
Speaker 1: what I need. And and that's kind of what I
Speaker 1: try to turn to because turning the drugs and alcohol
Speaker 1: just that wasn't working for me anymore. That was going
Speaker 1: to kill me. So you know, so now that's that's
Speaker 1: what my life looks like. I'm just trying to stay
Speaker 1: on the positive side of things and and get out
Speaker 1: there and um live. So what a couple of year
Speaker 1: go to records coaching records? Well, every Beatles record is
Speaker 1: a mainstay. Wait, wait, what's your favorite Beatles album? I
Speaker 1: can't pick one. I know that's because you can't pick one.
Speaker 1: It's the whole. You know, I have one now, it's
Speaker 1: changed from what it was earlier, So give me your
Speaker 1: general sensibility. Um, it's it's always different. I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: well right now I'm listening to the anthology a lot,
Speaker 1: just because it has all of the all of the
Speaker 1: different demos and all the versions of songs, which I
Speaker 1: think is very cool to listen to and explore. Um.
Speaker 1: I also have been why I still haven't finished it.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's amazing. I haven't finished Get Back yet,
Speaker 1: which I is the I think the greatest thing to
Speaker 1: happen to cinema and ever. Um, I'm so fascinated by it.
Speaker 1: I'm so in love with it. But it's taking me
Speaker 1: forever to get through because I have to pose it
Speaker 1: every two seconds and rewind it and just make sure
Speaker 1: I soaked in every little moment of it. Okay, let's stop.
Speaker 1: Where are you? I'm still I'm still about halfway through
Speaker 1: the first one, and it's taken me about how when
Speaker 1: did it come out? Three months? Are watching the first one?
Speaker 1: All I can say is I find the three episodes
Speaker 1: quite different. They that's what I've heard. But I'm again,
Speaker 1: I'm only on the first one. But I'm waiting for
Speaker 1: what did you take from what you actually saw? First
Speaker 1: of all, just how genius it is, but but I
Speaker 1: already knew that, but also just getting to see kind
Speaker 1: of the full extensions. It's like the unedited version of
Speaker 1: everything I've been watching my whole life, you know, to
Speaker 1: see this footage that's existed and I've never seen before
Speaker 1: is mind blowing. But I think that I'm taking a
Speaker 1: lot of things from it. I think one, it's it's
Speaker 1: amazing to see the similarities. I mean, not that I'm
Speaker 1: ever trying to compare myself to the greatness of the Beatles,
Speaker 1: but to see the similarities of of what it's like
Speaker 1: to be in a band and to to be a
Speaker 1: writer and to be, you know, in working with three
Speaker 1: other people and and have that kind of camaraderie, and
Speaker 1: that the arguments and the banter and the just the
Speaker 1: their overall kind of demeanor is very similar to us
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Um, which is very cool
Speaker 1: to see that. You know, artists such as you know,
Speaker 1: the greats like the Beatles are at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, you know, they're human too, and and there's
Speaker 1: and so I'm I'm just fascinated by it. Aspect you're
Speaker 1: being is in a room or studio, what do you
Speaker 1: argue over? Oh my god, the like everything. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was one fight that I'll never forget where it was.
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was going to come to
Speaker 1: blows and it was just over how loud the high
Speaker 1: hat should be like it was. It was intense. It
Speaker 1: was a good twenty minute screaming match back and forth
Speaker 1: between me, Ben and Kato and it it was and
Speaker 1: we're not fighters, were not physical fighters, but it got close.
Speaker 1: So that's just one example. It's we fight over the arc.
Speaker 1: It's you know, it's a it's a let's go back
Speaker 1: to the high hat. What did everybody? What did you want?
Speaker 1: I don't even remember at this point on So this
Speaker 1: is the first record, Um, this was light me up.
Speaker 1: I don't remember what I actually what I wanted or
Speaker 1: what I don't remember if we might have all been
Speaker 1: even saying the same thing, but we just weren't listening
Speaker 1: to each other, Like I don't think any of us
Speaker 1: actually knew by the end of the argument, but we
Speaker 1: were so adamant about whatever it was. I knew it
Speaker 1: was a high hat, that it was just it got
Speaker 1: very heated very quickly, and ever wanted to walk out
Speaker 1: of the room and cool off and come back. And
Speaker 1: then it was probably just like turn it down a
Speaker 1: quarter of a dB and we're all happy. It's probably
Speaker 1: something that careful. There's a theme of you wanting to
Speaker 1: do it your way, So are you the ultimate arbiter
Speaker 1: in the act. Yeah, well, if it's I mean, if
Speaker 1: I would say Ben and I are Ben and I
Speaker 1: because we write the songs, and so if they're if
Speaker 1: they don't, you know, if the recording doesn't capture what
Speaker 1: our intent was, or doesn't do the song justice to
Speaker 1: its fullest potential or whatever it Uh, we're immensely unhappy.
Speaker 1: And it's and it's like you're destroying our children. Um.
Speaker 1: So it's it's this very you know, it's this very
Speaker 1: tumultuous thing where it's like if you like working with
Speaker 1: different producer, we always worked with Kata. That's why it
Speaker 1: was is a very beatle like relationship where we worked
Speaker 1: with the same person George Martin beatles us and Kato
Speaker 1: because we build upon that. We built upon that relationship
Speaker 1: and so um, you know, in a musical partnership where
Speaker 1: it became symbiotic and so are our minds just kind
Speaker 1: of intuitively worked together and we all had the same goal. Um.
Speaker 1: And so losing him and having him pass was a huge,
Speaker 1: huge impact. I mean, not only was he my best friend,
Speaker 1: but he was the fifth member of the band. He
Speaker 1: was this very integral part in the making of our records.
Speaker 1: And so losing that was extraordinarily difficult, and trying to
Speaker 1: replace that it was nearly impossible. And so um, and
Speaker 1: where was I going with us? Sorry um and so
Speaker 1: too to find that again. I don't know that we'll
Speaker 1: ever find that again. And so that's what that's what
Speaker 1: made this album Death by Rock and Roll very different
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, is that it was us
Speaker 1: kind of figuring out how to us figuring out how
Speaker 1: to make records without Kato, which seemed like an impossible
Speaker 1: task I think when we started, um and luckily we
Speaker 1: we we knew one other guy named Jonathan Wyman who
Speaker 1: was an old, dear friend of ours who's just a
Speaker 1: great engineer, and so we called him up. And that's
Speaker 1: how we didn't made this together where we actually been
Speaker 1: and I actually co produced it because we were so
Speaker 1: involved within controlling about these songs that were so precious
Speaker 1: and so dear that there was no um, there's no
Speaker 1: other way around it. So I don't remember where I
Speaker 1: started with this. I had if I had a full
Speaker 1: circle moment, but I forgot what your question was. And
Speaker 1: so yes, So my point, my point being, so we're
Speaker 1: very involved in the recording and all of it where
Speaker 1: there is no So the buck stops with with me
Speaker 1: and Benet. It has to it has to reach a
Speaker 1: certain level and hit a certain point in place where
Speaker 1: we can both go, that's great the way it is,
Speaker 1: and don't don't mess with that anymore. And so yes,
Speaker 1: the buck stops with the buck stops with the two
Speaker 1: of us. And I think that we're always on the
Speaker 1: same page that we've never really gotten in an argument
Speaker 1: about what about all the other stuff? When to go
Speaker 1: on tour with the artwork is and all that stuff,
Speaker 1: there's you know, well that's where the team that I've
Speaker 1: put in place comes in to play. Um like that, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's I know the friend who's the manager will not
Speaker 1: manage X, will only me A not manage bands because
Speaker 1: there's so many issues between the band. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: we don't have that. I know what you're saying, that
Speaker 1: we don't have that kind of um dynamic in our band.
Speaker 1: It's because when you sign a record deal, are all
Speaker 1: four band members on that deal are just you? No,
Speaker 1: it's just me, it's just you? Wait? Is it just me? Honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't even know and I should know that. Um, well,
Speaker 1: I'm the soul it's it's it's split because it's not me,
Speaker 1: it's not signed under Taylor Momson. So it's it's I
Speaker 1: am the owner of the Pretty Reckless. So the license
Speaker 1: the title that you know at the copyright, I own that.
Speaker 1: So that's you're signing the pretty Reckless, but I am
Speaker 1: the sole proprietor of the Pretty Reckless. Of that Okay.
Speaker 1: So there's an advance or there are hypothetically royalties which
Speaker 1: never seemed to show up. Everybody get uh, we don't
Speaker 1: split it like that, but everyone does get equal shares
Speaker 1: at the end. But it's not But like with an
Speaker 1: advance or whatever, especially with license in the albums, it's
Speaker 1: not that's it's not that cut and drive like here's Europe,
Speaker 1: because it's not a three sixty major label deal, like
Speaker 1: here's your money and we'll take care of everything. The
Speaker 1: advance goes to making the art and goes back into
Speaker 1: the business. So it's the deals like that go into funding.
Speaker 1: But let's just assume you're in business and after ten
Speaker 1: years you have to be making some money otherwise you
Speaker 1: would stop, so you wouldn't be able to afford going
Speaker 1: on the road. So at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: if there's a hundred dollars, do you get fifty and
Speaker 1: the other three with the other forget publishing, totally different things.
Speaker 1: But on these men for the band, okay, do you
Speaker 1: split or is it split differently? It's a case by
Speaker 1: case basis. It's not. It's not across the board blanketed
Speaker 1: set a deal like that. It's it depends on the
Speaker 1: situation and where where the money is coming from and
Speaker 1: what it's for and where it's going, and like it's
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not as a standard deal. Like you
Speaker 1: go on the road, you perform, forget sponsorship for you know,
Speaker 1: just you're performing and it's merch. How is that split up?
Speaker 1: It's it's not split by percentages like that. It's it's
Speaker 1: it goes into the business and then whatever is left
Speaker 1: over is split. But if they get paid, they get
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know this well enough to really
Speaker 1: discuss it properly. But they don't they get paid, and
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. It's one final question.
Speaker 1: But do they get paid a salary? Did you get
Speaker 1: eight a salary? But it's but it's a consistent Yes,
Speaker 1: they get paid a salary, yes, but but it's it's
Speaker 1: constantly changing based on the incomes of the organization. Okay,
Speaker 1: so other than the Beatles, what are a couple of
Speaker 1: your other go to factor something easier? Uh? Well, sound
Speaker 1: Garden is my other go to band, like my two
Speaker 1: favorite bands on the planet of the Beatles and Sound Guarden.
Speaker 1: So sound Garden is. But you were on the road.
Speaker 1: You were on the road with sound Garden. Yeah, when
Speaker 1: Chris Cornell committed suicide, What the hell was how'd you
Speaker 1: find out? It's well, that was the start of my demise.
Speaker 1: I guess um or my very downward spiral was the
Speaker 1: passing of him, because that was to be on tour
Speaker 1: with Sound Garden. When we got that phone call that
Speaker 1: we were going to open for them, my mind was blown,
Speaker 1: like I couldn't even I couldn't process. I was so
Speaker 1: happy I was. That was the pinnacle moment of my
Speaker 1: career that I could not believe we were opening for
Speaker 1: Sound Garden. Um, I felt like I was in a
Speaker 1: dream and and getting to play those shows with them
Speaker 1: and be on the road with them and getting to
Speaker 1: know them personally. It was just the whole experience was
Speaker 1: absolutely amazing and super surreal. And we played that last
Speaker 1: show with them in Detroit, and the next morning I
Speaker 1: woke up to the news and it just it was
Speaker 1: so shocking and so devastating. I couldn't wrap my mind
Speaker 1: around it. It crushed me in a way that I
Speaker 1: was not expecting or prepared for or could even understand. Um.
Speaker 1: And we were still you know, we were still in
Speaker 1: the middle of tour at that at that time, and
Speaker 1: I we played a few shows after that, but I
Speaker 1: quickly came to the realization and the and the point
Speaker 1: where I was like, I'm not in a good headspace
Speaker 1: to be on tour. I can't do this. I can't
Speaker 1: get on stage in fain excitement and happiness every night,
Speaker 1: Like this is just it's unfair to the fans, it's
Speaker 1: unfair to me. Like I need I need a break.
Speaker 1: I need some time to go home and grieve and
Speaker 1: be a person. Um and and and and I did.
Speaker 1: I canceled everything. I went home, and as soon as
Speaker 1: I started to kind of get my feedback on the
Speaker 1: ground and process the passing of Chris Um, I turned
Speaker 1: to music. I started writing. And that's because that's what
Speaker 1: I always do. It's this is where my mind goes.
Speaker 1: And I was calling Kato or producer going, I've got
Speaker 1: some songs we gotta get in the studio because it
Speaker 1: hit all of us extraordinarily hard. I mean, one of
Speaker 1: the reasons this band formed and why it's you know,
Speaker 1: has the members that it does is was our deep
Speaker 1: passionate love of sound garden Um. It was one of
Speaker 1: the things that we connected on right away. Did you
Speaker 1: play black hole soun on rock band? I didn't play
Speaker 1: rock bands, but I wasn't. No, I never played any
Speaker 1: of that. I played guitar. Was it was black hole
Speaker 1: son on on guitar? Hero or rock band? Was one
Speaker 1: of the famous songs from rock You're processing. Yes, I've
Speaker 1: written some songs and like we all of us were
Speaker 1: in this kind of depression and this funk from from
Speaker 1: Christ's passing, and when we got to get out of this,
Speaker 1: let's get in the studio, let's record. I don't know
Speaker 1: what these songs are for, but I've got some stuff
Speaker 1: like let's just move forward. We've got to try to
Speaker 1: get out of this. And as soon as we were
Speaker 1: starting to put those plans in motion, I got the
Speaker 1: phone called that Kato had died in a motorcycle accident
Speaker 1: and that that was the just that was the nail
Speaker 1: in the coffin for me, that was that was the
Speaker 1: beginning of what I was sure was going to be
Speaker 1: the end. Like where I just I sunk so fast
Speaker 1: into this whole of depression and substance abuse and just
Speaker 1: this place of utter darkness and sadness that I couldn't
Speaker 1: get out of and I didn't see a way out of.
Speaker 1: And I just and I think the biggest problem was
Speaker 1: that I didn't care, Like I was very content being
Speaker 1: living there and and essentially fading into nothing, and and
Speaker 1: I just I saw that as that's where my life
Speaker 1: was going to go, and that's where I live, and
Speaker 1: that's where I die. And that was that. And it
Speaker 1: took you know years UM's, you know, writing this album
Speaker 1: and stuff of me trying to pull myself out of
Speaker 1: that hole. Because and that's why I say music saved
Speaker 1: my life and saves my life continually, is because I
Speaker 1: hit that point where I it was so lonely and
Speaker 1: so low that I needed music. I needed something. And
Speaker 1: you know, the drugs and the alcohol it wasn't filling.
Speaker 1: It wasn't even numbing that that whole anymore, wasn't numbing
Speaker 1: that pain. It was just exacerbating it and it and
Speaker 1: it didn't. I wasn't doing what I needed and it
Speaker 1: wasn't doing what I needed it too, um And so
Speaker 1: I turned to music and it and it was this
Speaker 1: essentially just really learned everything. I tried to kind of
Speaker 1: ask myself, like, what, like everything I love is dead,
Speaker 1: what's the point? And there had to have been a
Speaker 1: point to all of this. There had to have been,
Speaker 1: and that the point was always music. So I started
Speaker 1: I tried to I essentially regressed into being a child
Speaker 1: where I just I listened to the albums that I
Speaker 1: grew up loving and and tried to find my love
Speaker 1: of something. And from an innocent and organic perspective, I
Speaker 1: guess of of like you do when you're a child,
Speaker 1: when you just you don't even know why you love something,
Speaker 1: you just do. And that's what I did with music.
Speaker 1: I started to kind of listen to the starting with
Speaker 1: the Beatles records and just going through, um, all the
Speaker 1: albums I grew up loving and love to this day,
Speaker 1: and eventually getting to a place where I could listen
Speaker 1: to Sound Garden and have it bring me some happiness
Speaker 1: and not just immense pain and sadness and that was
Speaker 1: kind of a that was a turning point for me
Speaker 1: where I could listen to those records and and there
Speaker 1: was a spark there um and I started to feel
Speaker 1: like I used to a little bit, just a little
Speaker 1: bit moments, glimmering moments, and that that, you know, led
Speaker 1: to me picking up a guitar and and playing music.
Speaker 1: And because I was also all by myself, I didn't
Speaker 1: didn't have anything to do, and that's so I was.
Speaker 1: This was a long period of time, so I just
Speaker 1: I turned to music and playing guitar and singing songs
Speaker 1: by myself in my bedroom like I did when I
Speaker 1: was a kid. Brought back, you know, all those feelings
Speaker 1: that I felt when I was a child of writing music.
Speaker 1: And that's then then this album turned into this very
Speaker 1: free flowing form of expression where I just just once
Speaker 1: I kind of let myself, let my mind go there
Speaker 1: and and say out loud everything that I had been
Speaker 1: trying to shove down and repress. Um. The floodgates opened,
Speaker 1: and this album essentially just it kind of wrote itself.
Speaker 1: It was just this very pure form of inspiration that
Speaker 1: I said that it's it's it almost feels like the
Speaker 1: first album in that way where it's just this this
Speaker 1: uncontrollable source, Like you're always looking for the source of something,
Speaker 1: and in this case, it was like the universe of gone.
Speaker 1: You wanted something to write about, Taylor, here I smacked
Speaker 1: you in the face with it. What are you gonna
Speaker 1: do with it? And by that's how this album was
Speaker 1: was made and written and and by doing that and
Speaker 1: by letting it all out through songs and in songs,
Speaker 1: it it started to heal me and you know, heal
Speaker 1: my soul in a way that I desperately needed. And
Speaker 1: it was not overnight like when you know, you know,
Speaker 1: when I sum it up in this little, nice, nice
Speaker 1: little package, it sounds like it was easy. It was
Speaker 1: not easy. It was it took a very long time.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, That's why I
Speaker 1: say this album Death by Rock and Roll is a
Speaker 1: very hopeful record because it it kind of covers this
Speaker 1: spectrum of of everything that I was going through at
Speaker 1: the time and in this very real way, um and
Speaker 1: and it and there's no there was no hiding, there's
Speaker 1: no hiding from it. There was no I couldn't I
Speaker 1: couldn't fake it even if I wanted to. I passed
Speaker 1: that point where I was I was unable to fake
Speaker 1: living anymore, and so it just it. It came out
Speaker 1: in the music and that's what eventually got me back
Speaker 1: to a place of uh being here. I don't I
Speaker 1: just got very heavy with that and I don't know
Speaker 1: it entirely made sense. Yes it did. So what did
Speaker 1: it look like doing drinking and doing drugs? It looked
Speaker 1: like it looks like a train wreck. What do you
Speaker 1: think it looked like? It was something there are people
Speaker 1: say doing drugs. I smoked a lot of dope. Other
Speaker 1: people said I was it was injecting heroin. I mean
Speaker 1: there's different. So people who were drunk seven people will
Speaker 1: get wasted two times a week. Um. You know again,
Speaker 1: I think that that's something that I'm not quite read
Speaker 1: you to share with the world. It I'll just leave
Speaker 1: it it. It was. It was bad. That was very bad. Um,
Speaker 1: and I did hit. Uh. There was a moment where
Speaker 1: it was I had to make a conscious decision of
Speaker 1: this is gonna kill me or so his death or
Speaker 1: moved forward? Um, And there was a there was a
Speaker 1: defining moment of that. But that's that's something that I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm quite ready to talk about in depth, okay,
Speaker 1: But the defining moment was an internal or external. It
Speaker 1: was external and it was a very physical decision. Okay.
Speaker 1: And during this process, were you getting professional help? Mm hmm,
Speaker 1: not really. I mean I I had spoken to different therapists.
Speaker 1: I saw it help, um, but I hadn't found you know,
Speaker 1: I think therapy therapists it's such a challenge to find
Speaker 1: a therapist that works for you. And I was moving
Speaker 1: from the a therapist and never really found, um, the
Speaker 1: right person for me. If so that that was kind
Speaker 1: of a dead end for me, and not not for
Speaker 1: lack of trying. I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I knew that it was outside help was you know,
Speaker 1: there's only so much that I was hade. Help can do,
Speaker 1: and then support from friends and family can do. I
Speaker 1: had to want to change, I had to want to
Speaker 1: make that choice to move on with life and continue
Speaker 1: to live and and and that's a hard decision to make.
Speaker 1: But if it had to come from me, it wasn't
Speaker 1: going to come from anyone else. Um. And I think
Speaker 1: that you know, it's like with anything like trying to
Speaker 1: motivate to exercise, Like you can have a trainer and
Speaker 1: all your friends tell you to do it, but at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you have to get up
Speaker 1: and do it. And I think that that's I had
Speaker 1: to reach a point that hit hit something that that
Speaker 1: scared me enough to change, and I did. Ye you're
Speaker 1: talking about this defining moment. Uh, once you hit the
Speaker 1: other side of it, was it totally of course you
Speaker 1: had to have of your head in the right place.
Speaker 1: But was there a third party who called you every
Speaker 1: day or came by every day to aid you till
Speaker 1: you finally got traction? Or was it something you did
Speaker 1: solely yourself? Um? No, I had help. The band helped
Speaker 1: a lot um. You know. They they were relentless and
Speaker 1: checking out on me. Um and you know, making sure
Speaker 1: I was doing all right. Um not dead yet? Uh No,
Speaker 1: So I had, I had, I had help in in
Speaker 1: that sent in that regard where I had, I had
Speaker 1: very close people in my life that it cared about
Speaker 1: me um and that, you know, I'm very thankful for
Speaker 1: and very lucky to have, because not everyone has that,
Speaker 1: UM And so you know, I think that's that's kind
Speaker 1: of supports us them certainly does not. It's not unappreciated
Speaker 1: by any means, and I think that it is an
Speaker 1: immense help. But like I said, at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, if you want to change, it has to
Speaker 1: come from within you, like people yelling at you or
Speaker 1: telling you to trying to motivate you or whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: however that might look, um isn't going to be the
Speaker 1: thing that does it. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it's just encouragement. Okay. There's a famous book by William Styrone.
Speaker 1: The author called Darkness Visible about his time being depressed
Speaker 1: and ultimately even going into an institution, and he said
Speaker 1: he couldn't listen to music he was so bad. And
Speaker 1: I've certainly been in that space. But when he could
Speaker 1: listen to music, then he knew he was on the
Speaker 1: road to recovery. Was there any time it that the
Speaker 1: music didn't work before it did? That's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: And I'm not familiar with this book, but now I
Speaker 1: want to read it. It's an easy book to read.
Speaker 1: You should definitely read. Yeah, no, I would love to.
Speaker 1: That's that's because that's verbatim what happened. When I was
Speaker 1: my lowest. There was no Everything brought sadness, especially music,
Speaker 1: because music with my whole life, and so anything I
Speaker 1: put on or listened to just brought back a painful
Speaker 1: memory or but I just hated it, or like it
Speaker 1: brought back so many had so many different emotions attached
Speaker 1: to it that none of which were good emotions. And
Speaker 1: and then and they would vary on a minutely basis. Um.
Speaker 1: But so I just I shut it out, like it
Speaker 1: was it brought back something that I couldn't deal with yet,
Speaker 1: and it just it was not pleasurable to me. And
Speaker 1: it was not creating comfort. It was creating pain and
Speaker 1: anger and anxiety and all you know, all the negative
Speaker 1: sides of the spectrum of the wheel of emotions and
Speaker 1: uh and so yeah, it was. There was a period
Speaker 1: where I couldn't listen to music at all, and I
Speaker 1: think that that was probably my darkest period because I
Speaker 1: had never gone in a day in my life without
Speaker 1: listening to music. It's just a part of my daily routine. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's like you said when when
Speaker 1: you when I I hit a place where I found
Speaker 1: myself needing it. I needed music and I had been
Speaker 1: depriving myself of it almost unconsciously, though like I didn't
Speaker 1: It wasn't this conscious thing where I went, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to listen to music because it makes me feel bad.
Speaker 1: It was just like I just didn't do it. It
Speaker 1: just hurt and I didn't do it. And I finally
Speaker 1: hit a point where I I felt like I needed
Speaker 1: music like I need water and oxygen and it and
Speaker 1: I don't know, then this primal un there was no
Speaker 1: thought process to any of this. That just it just was.
Speaker 1: And that's where that that's where I kind of I
Speaker 1: started from the beginning again and I went, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: let's start with something easy to digest. Let's start with
Speaker 1: the Beatles, you know. And that's where it. That's where
Speaker 1: that kind of transitioning and introducing music back into my
Speaker 1: life through in the order of how I fell in
Speaker 1: love with it as a child, became this kind of
Speaker 1: very theory compeutic process to me. And and the end
Speaker 1: of that looked like being able to listen to the
Speaker 1: Sound Garden. And by the time I hit that point,
Speaker 1: that allowed me to then get to the next stage,
Speaker 1: which was playing music and writing music. And so that
Speaker 1: was so I think I noticed it as as I
Speaker 1: was listening to albums again that it was starting to
Speaker 1: help me in a way, But I don't think I
Speaker 1: really noticed any of it until I until I completed
Speaker 1: the album and then took a step back and went, oh,
Speaker 1: ship that was. That was a lot over the past
Speaker 1: few years. I don't even know what just happened, um
Speaker 1: because you can't see it when you're in it. But
Speaker 1: generally speaking, or your glass half empty, glass half full person,
Speaker 1: mm hmmm, I think it depends on the month. I
Speaker 1: don't after having having this terrific experience. Okay in the
Speaker 1: bathroom mind, I think you said, well, it could happen again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in the back of my mind spoke could happen again.
Speaker 1: But I think be because of all of that. I think,
Speaker 1: because everything I went through and all that darkness, I
Speaker 1: am now probably more on the glass glass half full
Speaker 1: side of things in the sense that I I look
Speaker 1: at everything with a sense of it's not that important.
Speaker 1: Like you know, once the once death impacks you in
Speaker 1: a real way, it changes your perspective of everything else,
Speaker 1: and so anything goes wrong or anything that's bad now
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, well, it's not that bad. Um.
Speaker 1: So so if that's what my new motto is, just
Speaker 1: it's eway like is what it is? Man Like Oh,
Speaker 1: it's a bad show. That sucks. I'm pissed. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: fire everybody, you know whatever. But eway, there's another one tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Like it's that's how you have to That's how I
Speaker 1: kind of look at life now in in general and
Speaker 1: until something, you know, hopefully nothing that's serious will happen again,
Speaker 1: at least for not a lot time. But go back
Speaker 1: to Chris Cornell for a second. I unfortunately that friends
Speaker 1: have committed suicide, and I find the old only way
Speaker 1: to ultimately move far forward if you put it in
Speaker 1: a mental box, you come out with some reasoning of
Speaker 1: what you thought was going on there. So how did
Speaker 1: you do that with Chris? And what did that look like?
Speaker 1: That's a good question, I think, And to think about
Speaker 1: that for a minute. I don't. I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I haven't. I haven't dissected that one. That's a very
Speaker 1: good question, Bob. I don't know that I have a
Speaker 1: good answer to that, because I don't. I don't think
Speaker 1: I've thought back on it like that in that way.
Speaker 1: I think that I think that once honestly, Chris passing
Speaker 1: was extraordinarily devastating and the start of a spiral for me.
Speaker 1: But so shortly after Chris, we lost Cato, and that
Speaker 1: that hit me in a in a way that like
Speaker 1: I thought, Chris hit me in a way that I
Speaker 1: didn't know, you know, hit me into the gut and
Speaker 1: the gut that I didn't know I had. And then
Speaker 1: but then with Kato passing, that was so so close
Speaker 1: to home. It's so personal and so you know, such
Speaker 1: a huge part of my life. It's such a huge
Speaker 1: part of my life that that overtook everything. And so
Speaker 1: I think that Chris, you know, became a part of
Speaker 1: this whole umbrella that was loss and death and grief
Speaker 1: and and and and it just it all kind of
Speaker 1: lumped together in this giant everything I love is dead.
Speaker 1: I don't see the point of life. And so it
Speaker 1: wasn't so specifically I didn't have the time to get over,
Speaker 1: not get over, but I didn't have the time to
Speaker 1: fully process and cart cart compartmentalized Chris's death because Kato's
Speaker 1: death happened so quickly after Chris' is so it all
Speaker 1: just became this one lump of hell. Not if that
Speaker 1: if that makes any sense. I don't mean to like
Speaker 1: belittle or or say they're not different, but it was
Speaker 1: so clear, were so quick next to you, so quickly, um,
Speaker 1: one after the other, that it was just this one
Speaker 1: to punch of pain and it all it all hurt.
Speaker 1: There was no going like, oh my arm hurts today
Speaker 1: and my leg hurts tomorrow. Is my whope, everything hurts
Speaker 1: all at once. Okay, let's go and do you go
Speaker 1: on the road now. And you've been on the road before.
Speaker 1: Anybody who's been there knows. It is a man's world.
Speaker 1: There's an occasional woman in the crew, and it's a
Speaker 1: real down and dirty lifestyle. And men can really be
Speaker 1: down in dirty when it comes to clothing, hygiene, going
Speaker 1: out drinking. Are you one of the guys? Are you
Speaker 1: really separate? How do you interact? And I'm definitely one
Speaker 1: of the guys. Um, you know, I've aside from the
Speaker 1: fact that I have dresses. Uh, I'm one of the guys.
Speaker 1: I think. Um, we actually looked out quite or I
Speaker 1: don't know if we looked out, but we're a clean band. Um.
Speaker 1: We all appreciate hygiene in this group, so we never
Speaker 1: had to worry about that that kind of problem, um,
Speaker 1: which I think would have been my my biggest complaint.
Speaker 1: But no, as far as like traveling and touring and
Speaker 1: living and um just being together. It's it, we're all
Speaker 1: we're all very like minded. It's it's it's so just
Speaker 1: it's very easy. It's very it's one, you know, big
Speaker 1: family for even as cliche as that sounds, it really is.
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, just the longer every
Speaker 1: year that goes by, the closer our bondas and the
Speaker 1: and the the easier everything gets. And it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's only gotten easier as time has gone on, which
Speaker 1: I think probably isn't the case for every band. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you talked about this hole you're win with drugs
Speaker 1: and alcohol. Are you sober or do you still drink something?
Speaker 1: I'm mostly sober, Um, I'm I never got into you know,
Speaker 1: the programs um that just to teach their own um.
Speaker 1: But I and I mean I occasionally all occasionally. First
Speaker 1: I smoked weed, Um, so I smoked lots of weed.
Speaker 1: But but no, I don't. I'm I'm mostly sober, like
Speaker 1: very Okay, So you don't. I haven't had a drink
Speaker 1: in two years. Okay, so a year and a half
Speaker 1: or whatever. Well let's talk a little bit before that,
Speaker 1: before all these tragedies. You play a gig, you're staying
Speaker 1: in a hotel. One of the band members says, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go hang out at the bar. Are you gonna
Speaker 1: go hang out at the bar? Oh? It's first of all,
Speaker 1: the party. It's a really fun party until the party
Speaker 1: takes its toll. You know, there's there's your way to
Speaker 1: say it. Oh yeah, No, it was a blast in
Speaker 1: the beginning, but you know, like anything, and it turns
Speaker 1: on you. Okay, needless to say. Uh. Prior to cell
Speaker 1: phone cameras, a lot of guys got into rock and
Speaker 1: roll for the sexual opportunities, and they are legion. What's
Speaker 1: your experience being on the road. Um, well, that's not
Speaker 1: why I got into it, so it's probably different, you know,
Speaker 1: different priorities. Um, I mean it's I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: been pretty It's very isolated in one way, like touring is.
Speaker 1: It's it's so his bubble and we're so focused on
Speaker 1: the show itself that um hm, it's not like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't like do I don't ask a
Speaker 1: more specific question because I don't really know you have
Speaker 1: a boyfriend or a girlfriend. Um, I'll leave you a guessing.
Speaker 1: I don't know one, but let me ask generally, I
Speaker 1: just don't like to looking for gossip here. Are you
Speaker 1: someone who tends to go from a relationship to relationship
Speaker 1: or someone who tends not to have a relationship, or
Speaker 1: someone who has long spells in between? Um, I'm either No,
Speaker 1: I'm certainly not a relationship to relationship person. I'm not
Speaker 1: like I don't jump around. I'm a I'm a loyalist.
Speaker 1: I'm a loyal person heart um, loyal with the people
Speaker 1: I work with them, loyal with my personal relationships and
Speaker 1: nuts um because I find you know, when you find
Speaker 1: someone you can trust and truly be yourself around in
Speaker 1: any capacity, whether that's romantic or business, you hang onto
Speaker 1: that for dear life. So that's that's kind of how
Speaker 1: I've always lived my life with very few people in
Speaker 1: my life, but very close people. So what's more sexist
Speaker 1: rock and roll or the TV business? Oh? Interesting question.
Speaker 1: I don't know, they're probably like probably equal. I think
Speaker 1: it depends on what you're talking about specifically. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: there's there's definitely more women on television than there are
Speaker 1: in rock and roll, But I don't know that that's
Speaker 1: is that sexism or is that just that there's less
Speaker 1: women in rock and roll because if you look at
Speaker 1: the pop charts, it's all women. So I don't you
Speaker 1: know women in music or I think I think the
Speaker 1: sexism side of you if you listen to like Joan
Speaker 1: Jet or someone who's um, you know, been doing this
Speaker 1: for a very long time. I think that the the
Speaker 1: sexist side of things has certainly changed over time. Like
Speaker 1: I've never felt I've I've felt moments of sexism in
Speaker 1: in music, but not to the degree that I think,
Speaker 1: you know, women like Joan and stuff had to deal
Speaker 1: with UM. It's much more I don't want to say inclusive.
Speaker 1: But I also just I don't look at it like that,
Speaker 1: Like I don't see myself as a a chicken a band.
Speaker 1: I see myself as like I'm a I do what
Speaker 1: you do. I see my as what all the guys do.
Speaker 1: I don't see I don't see gender like that. And
Speaker 1: you know, and I don't. All of my idols have
Speaker 1: always been men, and it's not because they're men. It's
Speaker 1: because I love their records, you know. It's it's not
Speaker 1: so I've never looked at genders this kind of divide,
Speaker 1: And maybe that's naive of me. But I just see
Speaker 1: it as the best songs, the best song with the
Speaker 1: best artis of the best artist. I want to be
Speaker 1: like them. I want to be like that. And so
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't like to put the and only
Speaker 1: to focus on that. And and so because I think
Speaker 1: I don't focus on it, maybe I don't even notice
Speaker 1: it when it's happening, if that makes sense. That makes sense.
Speaker 1: But let's broaden it a little bit, just more of
Speaker 1: a me too thing. Uh. Any woman, never mind, a
Speaker 1: very attractive woman like yourself, has men hitting on them
Speaker 1: all the time. Okay, and if you have a profile
Speaker 1: first on a TV show, in a band, okay, that
Speaker 1: is amplified. So almost everybody in those walks of life
Speaker 1: has me two stories? Do you have? Me? Two stories?
Speaker 1: I have? I have? I have uncouth and un Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have uncouth encounters with with men, um of course.
Speaker 1: But I also think that every it's unfortunate and it's
Speaker 1: very sad. But I think that any woman of a
Speaker 1: certain age has been very uncomfortable sexual situations and at
Speaker 1: some point in their life. Um, probably most people have. Honestly, UM,
Speaker 1: So I don't I again, I don't want to get
Speaker 1: too into that. But of course, of course I've had
Speaker 1: uncomfortable situations that you know, in inappropriate situations of things
Speaker 1: that shouldn't have happened the way that they did. But
Speaker 1: on as far as the like getting hit on and things,
Speaker 1: I actually find it funny. I don't get hit on
Speaker 1: very much at all, and I don't I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's I think a part of that is because
Speaker 1: I built this, like there's this protection around. I roll
Speaker 1: around with four giant men with me all the time.
Speaker 1: That's very intimidating, Like I have this force with by
Speaker 1: being in a band of this of this crew of
Speaker 1: people that I roll with all the time. So I'm
Speaker 1: never I'm very protected in in this. Um. I don't
Speaker 1: know what we're kind of imposing. I guess when we
Speaker 1: were a force when we when we walk in together,
Speaker 1: and I'm never really boy myself, so um it would
Speaker 1: be so I just I don't think I experienced that
Speaker 1: in the same way that maybe some people do. Thought, well,
Speaker 1: what about everyday life. You're in New York City. I'm
Speaker 1: in New York, but I'm I don't know, like I
Speaker 1: love New York because it's you're in the middle of
Speaker 1: a billion people, but you can also completely hide. Um
Speaker 1: you know, it's in New York can be whatever you
Speaker 1: wanted to be based on the minute. And that's why
Speaker 1: I think it's so amazing that you can walk, you know,
Speaker 1: one corner and walk one block and you're in the
Speaker 1: heart of it all and turn another corner and you're
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere. And I think that that's
Speaker 1: so cool. And so it's it's very easy for me
Speaker 1: to kind of hide and and live very normal normally
Speaker 1: in in New York. And I don't know, especially with COVID,
Speaker 1: I don't go out, I don't do anything. I'm a
Speaker 1: homebody and very boring. Um so I'm yeah, it's I
Speaker 1: go for long walks and you know, who are you
Speaker 1: meeting on a walk? Would you ever say to yourself, Oh,
Speaker 1: you know, I need food, but I'm not gonna go
Speaker 1: to the market at this hour because I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to deal with the public there and people gonna you know,
Speaker 1: try to hit on me or talk to me or whatever.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I mean, not the market. But there's certain
Speaker 1: areas in New York, like if you don't want to
Speaker 1: be photographed or you don't want to be bothered by
Speaker 1: you know, paparazzi or ebayers or people like that, or
Speaker 1: people who might notice you you don't go to soho
Speaker 1: on a Saturday, like you know, there's there's areas where
Speaker 1: you just you know, to avoid um. So, yes, there's
Speaker 1: there's certainly times when you when you think that to yourself.
Speaker 1: But as far as just like going to the grocery store, like,
Speaker 1: I'm just a person will go to the grocery store.
Speaker 1: I'm not that I'm not that fussy. Okay, how about
Speaker 1: if you leave the house. You know, I was at
Speaker 1: a private situation with a household name and who came
Speaker 1: looking like she just walked out of, you know, a
Speaker 1: movie set. And I said, this is a sentence. She's
Speaker 1: known as a beauty. She has to leave her house
Speaker 1: every day and make herself up by the same token.
Speaker 1: I have another friend who was on television, went to
Speaker 1: pick up food and somebody came up to said, aren't
Speaker 1: you so and so said yeah, he said the person said,
Speaker 1: you look like shit. So do you feel that pressure? God,
Speaker 1: if I'm leaving the house, I gotta put my look on.
Speaker 1: I certainly did when I was on television, when I
Speaker 1: was on Gossip girl. I felt like I could. I
Speaker 1: hated leaving I didn't leave the house with makeup. I
Speaker 1: always had an output, an outfit together. Part of that,
Speaker 1: I think was that I was young and I actually
Speaker 1: really enjoyed expressing myself through fashion and makeup and things
Speaker 1: like that from the visual standpoint. Um. But also I
Speaker 1: knew it as my picture was gonna be taken and
Speaker 1: when I walked outside, So who wants to look like
Speaker 1: shit and photos? Um? But I think as I've gotten older,
Speaker 1: I've become much more relaxed in general about image and
Speaker 1: how I'm perceived and walking around New York and stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't care, I don't like. I mean again,
Speaker 1: like I'm not going to go to one of the
Speaker 1: areas of New York that there's always paparazzi hanging around
Speaker 1: looking like crap, just because why would you do that
Speaker 1: to yourself? But just like leaving my house in the
Speaker 1: in the daytime, like I'll leave the house and looking
Speaker 1: quite normal and very average. Okay, So if you're a homebody,
Speaker 1: how you spending the time? You're watching television? You're reading books? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Watching tv? I mean we uh, we haven't been home
Speaker 1: from tour. Too long. So it's I'm actually just kind
Speaker 1: of I've got a lot of errands and chores and
Speaker 1: things that we're getting ready to leave again here soon.
Speaker 1: So it's a lot of like unpacking and repacking and
Speaker 1: things like that. Um, but yeah, I watched television playing music. Um.
Speaker 1: I walk a lot. That's the other thing I do
Speaker 1: in New York. I go for a mile long walks
Speaker 1: every day and just um people watch and and enjoy
Speaker 1: the city and the the energy that is that is
Speaker 1: New York. That there. You know, I've literally been around
Speaker 1: the world and there's no other place that even comes
Speaker 1: close to it. Like I love New York so much.
Speaker 1: It's so special and so different and so exciting and
Speaker 1: so it's it's the best. And so I'm never bored
Speaker 1: in the city because you can even if you're doing
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing, just all you have to do is walk
Speaker 1: outside and you you're watching a movie. Like is true.
Speaker 1: But you know, living in I grew up in the
Speaker 1: East Coast, fifty miles from New York City. But you know,
Speaker 1: the East New Yorker comes to l a looks around us.
Speaker 1: I don't get it. You know, you gotta use your car.
Speaker 1: There's not this that New York City greatest city in
Speaker 1: the world. In the world, buddy, Angelina would say, New
Speaker 1: York City, greatest city in the world, but I'd rather
Speaker 1: live in Los Angeles. Well, see, that's where I was
Speaker 1: talking to Margaret before we started talking, and then I
Speaker 1: was saying, Los Angeles is like that. I've all pretty
Speaker 1: much all of my friends who used to live in
Speaker 1: New York now live in l A. And they love it,
Speaker 1: and they're constantly trying to convince me to move there.
Speaker 1: They're going, you're crazy, you're missing out. It's beautiful, the weather.
Speaker 1: And I go to Los Angeles. I stay there for
Speaker 1: about a week. The first week, I'm going, this is amazing.
Speaker 1: It's sunny every day. I know exactly. I don't need
Speaker 1: to wear a jacket. I gotta it's awesome. The energy,
Speaker 1: the vibe that's so positive and great. After about two weeks,
Speaker 1: I'm so done and so ready to be Like for
Speaker 1: the first two weeks, I'm ready to move there. By
Speaker 1: the time third week comes around, I'm like, if you
Speaker 1: don't get me back to New York City, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go absolutely crazy. I need the grit. I need the grime,
Speaker 1: I need the I don't want to feel like I
Speaker 1: have to wipe my feet when I walk outside to
Speaker 1: make sure my shoes are clean for your sidewalks, like
Speaker 1: I want, you know what I mean? I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's just something about New York that I can't I'm
Speaker 1: I fell in love with it when I was young,
Speaker 1: and I just don't think i'll ever look I feel
Speaker 1: about New York exactly about you know, you go to
Speaker 1: the East Coast. God, why am I living in l
Speaker 1: A blah blah blah. But after a period of time,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get back to l A. I
Speaker 1: get it. Maybe one day, maybe one day, Los Angeles
Speaker 1: will become my new home, but not yet. I also,
Speaker 1: after spending five years in Maine um in the complete
Speaker 1: and utter isolation, I think the the mayhem of New
Speaker 1: York City is very refreshing. I was New York only
Speaker 1: works if you can get out. Mhm. If you're an artist,
Speaker 1: you don't have that much money, you're there seven week
Speaker 1: after week, it becomes oppressive. Yeah, it certainly can if
Speaker 1: you can get to Maine whatever. Okay, so whish. On
Speaker 1: the other side, if you're spenting twenty hours a day,
Speaker 1: I would see I would say. The opposite is spending
Speaker 1: twenty hours a day in Maine became extraordinarily oppressive. Where
Speaker 1: it was, it was torturous to be that one of
Speaker 1: the few people's lived in the country. Now, granted I
Speaker 1: lived in the country prior to Amazon, the Internet, I
Speaker 1: mean FedEx, so you're living in the boonies. And then
Speaker 1: the other thing I don't like about living in the countries,
Speaker 1: everybody knows your name. I like the anonymity. Everybody you
Speaker 1: don't know who I am. You don't know what I'm
Speaker 1: up to. It's really you know, and you don't have
Speaker 1: to say hi to the same person without talking to
Speaker 1: him for twenty years. There's no small talk in the city.
Speaker 1: It's the best, right right, Yeah. On the New York place,
Speaker 1: it's oh yeah, good to see you. Okay, bye. So
Speaker 1: you're in New York. Are your parents still in St. Louis? No, No,
Speaker 1: my family we moved to uh we moved from St.
Speaker 1: Louis when I was nine or ten ten um to
Speaker 1: Maryland because my dad switched companies or jobs, and so
Speaker 1: I lived in Maryland. Because my family still in Maryland,
Speaker 1: I have to make that I don't know what what
Speaker 1: does your she well she's very private and we'll let
Speaker 1: me talk about her. Um, but she is doing Wait,
Speaker 1: she she went to college. She's very smart, she's very
Speaker 1: uh driven, she's very beautiful and sweet and wonderful, and
Speaker 1: she's uh, she's currently in living life and figuring out
Speaker 1: what she wants to do with it. Um but I
Speaker 1: but she will literally kill me if I say anything
Speaker 1: more than that. But she's doing great and she's on
Speaker 1: her Okay. So, someone who spent all that time with
Speaker 1: your mother and absent from your father, what's your relationship
Speaker 1: with your parents now, both in quality and frequency. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't see my family very often. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we have kind of a texting relationship. I guess. Uh,
Speaker 1: they you know, have always been very supportive of what
Speaker 1: I do. But I think that are you know, as I,
Speaker 1: as I got older and kind of moved into my
Speaker 1: own world of creation, Um, that they weren't really integral
Speaker 1: in and a part of you know, we certainly drifted apart.
Speaker 1: And so you know, I think our relationship is it's
Speaker 1: all right, it's good, you know, it's it's fine, but
Speaker 1: it's it's not super involved. You've had this career other
Speaker 1: than Jared Leto and you may have more number ones.
Speaker 1: You're the only person who really made success of the
Speaker 1: last couple of decades was first on television, So you've
Speaker 1: proved it. Yeah, staying party of that success. What do
Speaker 1: you want now? Oh man, that's a really good question.
Speaker 1: I should probably think about that more often. Uh, you
Speaker 1: know what I want now? Um? I want to have
Speaker 1: a good time all the time. That's what I want.
Speaker 1: So that's that affairs. I want a good time all
Speaker 1: the time. UM. I used to say the same thing
Speaker 1: in my life at one point. I feel like it's
Speaker 1: usually after the traumas hard. It's been some hard years
Speaker 1: and I just want things to be easy and fun
Speaker 1: and good and I want to have a good time, um,
Speaker 1: which is why I and I mean that. And I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to the next couple of months because the
Speaker 1: touring is a good time and I hope it remains
Speaker 1: a good time before it's it's We're very excited to
Speaker 1: get back out on the road and go to Europe again.
Speaker 1: We haven't been to Europe and years and we're doing
Speaker 1: that in October. And finally we're starting to transition into
Speaker 1: becoming an arena band. We're playing our headlining our first
Speaker 1: arenas in Europe, which is very exciting. So just I
Speaker 1: just want everything to keep kind of growing and aggressing
Speaker 1: and and moving forward in a in a positive good way.
Speaker 1: And I and then I want to get back in
Speaker 1: the studio and I want to make more music. I
Speaker 1: want to make another record, and I want to, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of not close this chapter, but um, you know,
Speaker 1: but take a step forward from it, and I think
Speaker 1: and and and just see where life's gonna take me.
Speaker 1: I don't I mean, I don't. I don't know. I haven't.
Speaker 1: I don't have it all planned out. But um but
Speaker 1: I would like to continue to make music, and I
Speaker 1: would like to continue to better myself as an as
Speaker 1: an artist and as a person and and do that
Speaker 1: on a you know, minutely and daily basis. What do
Speaker 1: you think about the game, Because a lot of artists,
Speaker 1: especially in rock, bitch about the game, the streaming, Spotify,
Speaker 1: the playlist, the payments, the radio. But um, well, I
Speaker 1: read your letters on it all the time. I think
Speaker 1: that I think that I haven't gotten to involved in it.
Speaker 1: And that might sound stupid, but I think that I
Speaker 1: just try to. I think that I think that you've
Speaker 1: got to make I don't know what I think. I
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think I'm smart enough to talk
Speaker 1: about this one to you. That's what I think. I
Speaker 1: think that I don't know enough, even though I should
Speaker 1: because I've been doing this a long time. I don't
Speaker 1: think I know enough to speak in a in a
Speaker 1: in a conversation. But is it something that bothers you?
Speaker 1: Yes and no, But I don't know that it bothers
Speaker 1: me on a on a specifically, I bought streaming. Is
Speaker 1: this weird thing? I have this love hate relationship with
Speaker 1: streaming where, you know, in one way, I think it's
Speaker 1: wonderful that everyone has immediate access to here music and
Speaker 1: you know, I you streaming. I listened to it. I'm guilty, um,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's so accessible, it's right there, um.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's wonderful because music should be
Speaker 1: shared and appreciated and listened to at nauseam. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, I am, you know, call me old school.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate the album, and I you know, that's
Speaker 1: what I grew up with. That's what I love where
Speaker 1: you really kind of delve into the art in this deeper,
Speaker 1: more meaningful way when you listen to records and it's
Speaker 1: and it's not this fleeting, quick little thing. It's it's
Speaker 1: something that's important and it has value um past past
Speaker 1: just a fiscal value, but like it has it has
Speaker 1: actual value, has physical weight when you're holding your hands.
Speaker 1: It has importance and and it's you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: like a it's a film, like it's it's it's worth something,
Speaker 1: and it's it's soulful and there's something to that that
Speaker 1: I feel like it's getting lost in the modern paradigm
Speaker 1: of music where you're you're missing this it's it's so
Speaker 1: it's so much, it's so much all the time that
Speaker 1: I think that the importance of what music can be
Speaker 1: is getting lost to a degree, or can get lost
Speaker 1: in a in an easier way. Um, whereas the you know,
Speaker 1: the album was something that encapsulates a time period in
Speaker 1: a moment in life, and you know of that artist
Speaker 1: where you can really get inside the artist's mind and
Speaker 1: and understand them, and by understanding them, you you understand
Speaker 1: yourself more. And you know, it's that whole symbiotic relationship
Speaker 1: with music and being a listener that I think is
Speaker 1: starting to get kind of dolled down because the importance
Speaker 1: of records and albums. With streaming, importance of music itself
Speaker 1: is becoming, so there's so much of it, I think.
Speaker 1: But I think it's the same thing with television too,
Speaker 1: Like there's just there's so much accessibility and there's so
Speaker 1: much product that it's overwhelming, and it's hard to find
Speaker 1: the real gems that that can change you as a person. Instead,
Speaker 1: you're you're infiltrated with, you know, a flux of tons
Speaker 1: of stuff that that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know. I I know that I still,
Speaker 1: even though I'm guilty of using streaming, and I still
Speaker 1: use streaming to listen to the records that I that
Speaker 1: I've always listened to. So I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: really know what I think of it. I think that
Speaker 1: I think it depends on what you grew up with
Speaker 1: and how you how you use it, because I also
Speaker 1: think everyone uses streaming differently, so it's I don't think
Speaker 1: that you can put a blanket um some up with
Speaker 1: streaming good or streaming bad. I think it depends on
Speaker 1: the on the person and specifically what you know artist
Speaker 1: or moment or thing that you're talking about Okay, so
Speaker 1: there's a great queen song which doesn't get that much airplay,
Speaker 1: but I love it, which is I want it all,
Speaker 1: I want it all, I want it all, I want
Speaker 1: it all, I want it now. Okay, so I was
Speaker 1: literally listening to that like three days ago. I'm forgetting
Speaker 1: Traditionally musicians would sacrifice money to have more people other
Speaker 1: than Gene Simmons, but have more people listen to their music.
Speaker 1: Do you say, well, you know Spotify tip top fifty,
Speaker 1: it's hip hop and pop. But shure that's where I
Speaker 1: want to be. No, no, no, no, I I mean
Speaker 1: I no, because I don't fit on that list. Um,
Speaker 1: I make a different kind of music. I think that
Speaker 1: I would love for you know, our band The Pretty
Speaker 1: Reckless and you know rock and Roll two be at
Speaker 1: the forefront of those lists. Sure, I would love for
Speaker 1: you know, the whole world to think that rock and
Speaker 1: roll is the greatest thing in the world, because I
Speaker 1: think they should think that, um and have it be
Speaker 1: you know, the most played, most popular thing in the world.
Speaker 1: But you know, but I'm also understand that it's not
Speaker 1: always that. It's not that simple because it's not crafted
Speaker 1: for that. It's not meant for that, that's not what
Speaker 1: rock and roll is. Rock and roll is it's meant
Speaker 1: for the underdogs. It's meant for the you know, the
Speaker 1: the people are trying to find their place and you know,
Speaker 1: are a little more. Yeah, and I don't I don't
Speaker 1: like to sum everyone up in one thing. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's smart, it's thoughtful, it requires thoughts. It's meant
Speaker 1: to make you think. It's meant to make you feel
Speaker 1: in a real way. Um, and that's not what people
Speaker 1: want all the time, like which you know, it's that
Speaker 1: pop music is very accessible and you can put it
Speaker 1: on in the background. I'm not trying to make background music.
Speaker 1: It's just not what I do. Okay, going back to
Speaker 1: social media, we've established that you keep part of yourself
Speaker 1: removed from social media. But to what degree do you
Speaker 1: post which platforms? You do it yourself or you have
Speaker 1: a team, And then what are your thoughts about TikTok um? Well,
Speaker 1: I I run all my own socials. I'm pretty terrible
Speaker 1: at it. I still like but no, it's it's me
Speaker 1: like Instagram and Twitter and uh and Facebook is linked
Speaker 1: to Instagram and Twitter. Those are all me directly posting.
Speaker 1: Um and then the band sites are the four of
Speaker 1: us posting, so we all have logins to those. UM
Speaker 1: and TikTok is something that you know, everyone in the
Speaker 1: industry says you should be on and get on, jump
Speaker 1: on board with I have one I have at Taylor
Speaker 1: Momson on TikTok. I don't have a lot of posts
Speaker 1: because I haven't quite figured it out. And uh, but
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's it's just content, right, That's all.
Speaker 1: That's all anything is. It's just constantly posting something that's
Speaker 1: kind of how I see it. And so I just
Speaker 1: try to focus that on UM sharing a little bit
Speaker 1: of my life and what I'm doing, but you know,
Speaker 1: keeping it focused on on the art and the music
Speaker 1: and UM, you know that side of things, because that's
Speaker 1: that's what I want to share. But is there anybody
Speaker 1: on your team or yourself who says, oh, there's a
Speaker 1: track on this album and if I cut us ten
Speaker 1: second spot with this, there's a chance that'll catch on.
Speaker 1: Oh no, we're not that calculated. I probably should get
Speaker 1: someone on my team that things like that though. With
Speaker 1: the Internet is moving so quickly, I should probably get
Speaker 1: someone who's on it. Okay, Taylor, I think we've come
Speaker 1: to the end of the feeling we've known. I want
Speaker 1: to thank you so much for taking this time. I'm
Speaker 1: glad that you're back from your unfortunate hole in the world,
Speaker 1: but good to talk to you. It's great to talk
Speaker 1: to you. Thank you so much for doing this, Bob,
Speaker 1: It's it's I've been reading you for years and it's
Speaker 1: so nice to finally speak to you semi face to face.
Speaker 1: You bet Okay, until next time. This is Bob Left
Speaker 1: Sex