WEBVTT - Taylor Momsen 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.200 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:17.320 My guest today is Taylor Momson of The Pretty Reckless Taylor, 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:19.680 good to have you here. Thanks for having me. It's 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.560 good to be here. Okay, you spent the last couple 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:25.800 of years in Maine. How did you end up in Maine. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:28.200 A lot of the band is from New England, so 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:30.920 we spent a lot of time over the past decade 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:34.000 rehearsing up there, and I used to crash on couches 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.120 or stay at hotels, and after ten years I kind 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:38.960 of got old, so I finally got a place there 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.680 and uh and uh. We actually made the last record there, 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:47.760 so it was that that became my second home, and um, 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.320 I love it. It's great. Okay, means a big state 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.720 and I don't want to know the exact address, but 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.680 do you live like close to Boston near Portland's up 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.320 in the Boonies. We're in Maine area. I live about 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.000 forty five minutes from Portland, but it's on an island, 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.399 so it's very much it's very Stephen king Esk in 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:11.119 the middle of nowhere, very Horrorville, which I love. It's 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.640 it's right on the water, which is awesome. Um, very beautiful, 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.479 but very very isolated, which is it's kind of perfect 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.279 because I split my time between New York City and Maine, 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.680 so it's it's the exact opposite of New York City, 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.959 which is is great for writing when you need to 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.640 kind of get inside your own head and you know, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:29.680 check out from the rest of the world. It's perfect. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.040 And how do you get to the island. You drive, 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.640 it's not it's like there's a bridge, but it's a 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.200 very tiny little island with like ten houses and is 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.399 your house on the water? It is on the water. 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.399 It's actually on stilts in the water, which in the 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:50.000 winter can be a bit scary. Uh. There's always a 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.520 quick chance that it might collapse into the ocean, and 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:55.760 that can be a little nerve wracking when those gusts 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.040 are coming through. But uh, but no, it's it's very 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.200 cool and very very key to have found a very 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:06.920 unique place like that. Okay, and electricity internet cable is 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.440 all regular speed or you know, you have the curse 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.880 of the boonies. Nah, there's a bit of a curse. 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:14.760 The internet, you know, kind of goes in and out 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.639 the waters island water, so it's kind of crappy. Um, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.280 but but it's it's also you know, it's still a 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.919 modern house too. I mean it's actually was built a 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:25.720 very long time ago. It was built in like the nine, 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:30.480 but but it's been modernized since. And are you a 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.919 loner or is this just a good place to be? 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.000 I'm I think it kind of depends on the month. 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.600 I mean we're on tour. I'm certainly not a loner, 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.520 but uh, I know I'm kind of a I would 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.799 say I'm a loner. I have very few friends, and 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:47.720 you know, very close friends, but very few. And I 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.680 very much appreciate my my alone time and my privacy, 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.240 just me and my dog hanging out and writing music. 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:58.520 And how far away are your bandmates? I'm not too far. 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:01.000 I mean the couple of our new hand sure guitar 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.280 player Ben's also in Maine and New York. He splits 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.680 his time as well like I do. Um, so not 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.160 not too far. But we rehearsed in Maine. I we 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.440 have rehearsal space right down the street from me, which 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.359 is awesome. We finally put that together and it's it's 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:18.000 very good. It's in an old armory, which is very cool. Um, 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:23.799 very grungy, and uh, I don't know rustic, I guess, 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.480 for lack of a better word, but it's it's it's awesome. 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.560 You can just make noise all the time. And we 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:30.959 finally set that up, which took about ten years to 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.120 get an actual official rehearsal space for us. So it's, uh, 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.760 I've been a long time coming. And what's a typical 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.040 day for you when you're not rehearsing. What's a typical 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:46.400 day look like in Maine? Um? Pretty boring, honestly. Uh, 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:51.320 you know, wake up, feed the dog, have some coffee. Uh, 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:54.240 check the weather, go for a walk, work out a 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:58.240 little bit, um, play music, write songs. Kind of. I 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.280 kind of stay in my house a lot of the time. Um. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.400 Of course, when it's beautiful in the summer, I love 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.000 to swim, um in kayak. But I'm a big, big swimmer. 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.400 I do you know, lapse of for hours in the ocean. Um, 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.640 so that's kind of that's my main hobby. I guess that. 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.960 And yeah, wait a second, at this time of year 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:19.960 in June, the water is really cold. It's really cold. 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.160 It's it's even cold in August, like even in peak 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.760 swimming time. It's freezing never and we don't get that 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.279 nice California water. So you just jump in and then 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.960 endure the shock and wait till you adjust pretty much. Yeah, 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:34.800 and and you know, swim until I can't feel my 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.040 hands and feed me more. That's always a good time 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.960 to get out when you go numb. Okay, You're band 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:46.480 members are older than you? Correct? How much older are they? Um? 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.479 I mean that's a good question. I don't even know 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:52.360 their actual ages. Um, I just just a number, Bob, 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.760 You know this, it's all about kindred spirits and that's 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.720 how I look at it. But they're they're like ten 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.400 years older than me. Does had you know, affect frame 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.480 of references or any positive or negative to them being 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.800 older than you? No? Um, I think you know. When 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.120 we formed the band, it was they were seasoned musicians, 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.960 which was wonderful for me. Um. They they actually the 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.839 band came about quite organically. We um. The three of them, Mark, 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.279 Ben and Jamie were actually in a band together for 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.720 many years. And I met I was a singer songwriter, 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.239 and I was kind of doing the rounds of working 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.640 with different producers and meeting different people, and I had 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:32.600 always wanted to be in a band. That was always 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:34.880 my goal and I had had like, you know, middle 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.799 school bands and things like that, but nothing serious. And uh. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.680 I met our producer Cato while doing the rounds of 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.600 meeting everyone, and we hit it off immediately, and he 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:50.080 introduced me to Ben, our guitar player, and threw bound 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:51.560 I'm at the rest of the band, and I essentially 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.240 heard their band and went, well, I just want I 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.000 want to be in your band, but I want to 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:56.760 write the songs and I want to be a singer. 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.440 And so that's pretty much what happened. Um. We kind 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:04.200 of just come comborn combined forces and the pretty recklessness. 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.880 So how do you write the songs? Um? I get 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.000 asked this so much and I wish that there was 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.919 a let me ask you a different question before. Do 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.240 you write them alone or in concert with the other 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.840 band members? Uh? Well, Ben and I are the two 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:22.680 song writers of the band, so the two of us 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.520 are the only writers, um, and we have a really 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:31.880 good thing going. I it's there's no formula, and that 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.680 that you know that presents challenges. I wish there was. 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.039 I wish there was a way too. I mean, I 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:38.800 know how to write in a formula, but that's just 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.920 I don't find that pleasurable. That's not that's not why 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.440 I make music. I make music to express myself and 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.240 when I have something to say, say it, and um, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.680 you know, music writing music was always this outlet for me, 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.000 uh that it's where I could really be myself and 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.400 really say what I felt and what I thought. And 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.680 it was kind of this this way that I could 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:02.880 process my emotions and my my thoughts and my brain 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.520 and kind of control the world around me. I guess, 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.520 or let or let let go of the control of 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.440 the world around me. I don't really. It was just 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:13.960 this place where I could be very honest. Um. And 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:15.800 so I fell in love with songwriting at a very 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.840 young age. And when I met Ben, he had a 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.920 very similar ethic to me in writing, and it just 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.560 was this kind of seamless transition as to writing together. 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.280 And and there is no formula. That's what makes the challenging. 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.240 There is no it starts with the guitar starts here. 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.440 It just the simple answer is it just it starts 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.000 with an idea and that can come from anywhere, and 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.320 that's that's what makes it tortuous, as you never know 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.480 where it's going to come from or if it's going 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:43.600 to come and and that can be a very scary 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.120 um time period, especially when you're trying to you know, 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.040 write in a new record and you don't know, you 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.920 don't know where to begin, um. And so it's a 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:54.920 lot of waiting around. Honestly, it's a lot of waiting 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.520 around for inspiration and something to strike you and that 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:03.040 turns into a song. And does he always do the music, 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.240 you always do the lyrics? Or do you share those? 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.600 Now we share everything. It's you know, each song is 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.360 done very differently. Um, Like I said, kind of the 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.440 only common thing is that it starts with an idea 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:14.600 and that can be a lyric, that could be a chord, 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.960 that could be a the sky looks pretty today, like 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.440 it get start at any from any place. Sometimes songs 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:23.720 come in five minutes. Sometimes they take five years, you know. 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.720 So it's um, it's it's it's interesting. I like I said, 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:29.600 I always might. I have this stupid joke that I 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:31.160 always say, and I always say, if I knew where 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.360 inspiration came from, I'd move there. It would make my 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.720 job a whole lot easier. But unfortunately I don't, So 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:38.240 you just have to kind of wait around for something 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:43.240 to strike you. And I mean, and there's there's a process, 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:45.360 I guess, not a process, but a way of doing that, 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.200 which is when I'm when I'm looking to write something, um, 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.280 when I get that itch if I haven't done it 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.560 in a while, or when I'm trying starting to write 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.320 a new record, I surround myself with art and from 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.600 you know, reading books and watching great films and uh, 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.400 listening to great records, and you know, taking long walks 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.839 and looking at great going to museums, looking at great art, 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.680 anything that's anything that could spark some sort of an idea. 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.360 And by listening and looking at the greats that have 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.560 come before me that I always find that very inspiring. 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.000 It just kind of puts my mind in a in 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.960 a place, in a settled place to begin, I guess, 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.360 let's go step by step in the nuts and bolts. 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.720 And I know every story is different. Do you write 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.400 in the same room, do you either he or he 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.800 gets an idea, then you get in the same room. 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.920 Do you send things back and forth? I know where 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.199 there's no road way to do it, but generally, how 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:42.400 does it go? All of the above? I mean, I've 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.000 lived in the same apartment in New York for at 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:48.679 right now, for over ten years now, and so this place, 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.040 I think this place has some giju in it. Um. 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.079 I've written pretty much all of all of our songs 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.840 here except for the ones that I wrote in Maine. Um. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.400 The only kind of constant is its I tend to 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.880 need isolation to write, at least at least to really 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:05.760 get to the core of it. Like I'm I'm always 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.120 jotting down ideas and and things, but to really kind 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.199 of hone in on what I'm trying to say and 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:16.800 really focus it into a song that takes That takes isolation, 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.320 that takes away, that takes being away from people like so, 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:23.040 I tend to not write complete songs very often on 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.679 the road, um, just because it's the whole. It's a 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.400 whole whirlwind of you know, a different kind of lifestyle 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.480 that I hear You're very focused on that, and so 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.720 I it I need that kind of divide and step 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:39.559 back from life almost to be able to kind of 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.480 put my brain in the right mindset. And if that 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.840 makes it okay, Let's say you have an album you 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.920 want to do, you need material. How long do you 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:53.040 have to be in isolation to get there. Oh man again, 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.480 I wish I knew. I mean, I think that's probably 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.480 why there's a we have some space in between our albums. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.280 I mean this last record, Uh, I wrote over the 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:07.280 course of probably two years, three years. Um. So it's 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.200 it's I don't know. I don't. I don't do it 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.400 like that. I don't write. I don't. I guess I said, 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.000 I sit down to write a record, but it's it's 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:14.559 not like that. It's not like, Okay, I'm going to 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.840 write an album in the next two months or whatever. 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.280 It's more I'm I'm always writing songs, and once I 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.320 have a collection of songs that are succinct and I'm 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.960 proud of and fit under the umbrella of a record 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.360 that tell this kind of complete story. Um, and I 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.360 feel like that chapter is complete, then then you make 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:37.160 an album. If that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely so you 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.360 said earlier, this is where you can be honest, this 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.800 is where you can be free. What is the message 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:45.720 you want to get across. It's a very good question. 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.920 I don't. I don't know that I have a message 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:53.280 like that. I think, Um, I think, I just I 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.720 write music to express myself and it makes me feel 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.319 good and it makes me feel better about life. UM. 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.000 And I think that, you know, it's it's where I 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:10.240 can deal with my problems. It's where I can uh. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.040 But like at this this last album for example, like 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.120 I don't know that there's a message per se. I 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.680 think by the time the album was finished and I 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.199 could take a step back from it, um and listen 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.079 to it almost from an outside perspective, I realized that 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.240 it was actually a very hopeful record. And I think 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.520 that that's kind of what the message became. UM that 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.440 after all this turmoil and very we went through a 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:35.280 lot of trauma and tragedy in the past few years. Well, 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.480 I was before I was writing the album, or while 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.839 I was writing the album, and uh, and I think 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:42.680 when I took a step back from that, you know, 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.559 the writing of it and the making of the album 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.720 was me processing and dealing with everything I had gone through, 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.760 and it was kind of almost like my therapy. Um. 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:52.840 And then when I got to the other side of 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.960 it and actually listened to the record it, I saw 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:59.280 that it was this very hopeful album. And so I 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.400 think that became the message of death by rock and roll, 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.000 of there is light at the end. Of the tunnel 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.880 if you want to see it. And you know, even 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.840 when things seem very bleak and bad, things do get better. 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.920 And and I think that that's you know, that's kind 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:13.920 of what that album became. So I don't think I 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.880 have one general message that I'm trying to convey to 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.280 the world or in part other than rock and roll 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.200 is awesome and I'm playing guitars school and writing music 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.760 is super fun. Well, you know, let me let me 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:27.440 there's a conundrum at the heart of some of the 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:32.960 greatest artists. They channel their individualism and it resonates with everybody, 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.320 but they're one step removed. They feel like they're in 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.600 their own space or they're alone, or like, you know, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:43.240 so you certainly had a lot of success being around 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.640 other people, and certainly if you listen to the earlier material, 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.040 it seems like a reaction to that. So, you know, 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.480 do you feel like you're in your own world and 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:56.120 therefore you can only just uh, just tell your truth 0:13:56.160 --> 0:14:00.000 in the songs or you're a pretty active social person 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.079 and then you get to be yourself, but you write 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.160 songs too. No, I kind of feel like it's the 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.400 first one. I mean, I definitely feel like like I said, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.959 music is where I can be myself. Music is where 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:17.920 I can process my life. Um and and and you know, 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.400 and you can only write. You can only write what 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.400 you know. You can only write your experience as your life. 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.760 And you know, sometimes if you're if you're daring, you 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.880 can delve into things that you see and people that 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:32.840 are around you and then you can write about that. 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.320 But it's it's a very personal thing because there is 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.040 you can You're limited to only what you know and 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.800 what you feel. And that's so that's that's what I do. 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.440 That's that's how I I don't know, it's just it's 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.360 how I think. Like writing songs make sense to me. 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.200 Music has always made sense to me. It's just the 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:55.920 language that I understand, um and never really was taught. 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:57.640 It just was. It always spoke to me in a 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.600 way that nothing else did. And so getting to create 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.640 something from nothing and and purely express yourself is such 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.640 a gift. But it's also it can be very lonely 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.240 because you know, even even if people connect to it 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.720 and understand it, they never will connect to it and 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.600 understand it on the level that I do or I feel. 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.520 If that that makes sense, Okay, the band is going 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:24.040 on the road. Uh, is that something you like to do? 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.040 I do? Especially now. Well, it's it's a catch twenty 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.680 two now because COVID is still going on, but especially now, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.560 it's been a long time, like uh, because we lost 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.240 a lot of people very close to us. I kind 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.680 of went into isolation. We made the record, so it 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.400 was about five years until since we had toured UM 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.240 and so to finally be able to play the new 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.240 songs off the new record and be back out on 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.520 the road in front of the fans, it's such a 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.280 breath of fresh air after a five year long break, 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.840 which was not intentional, um, but it is. It is 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.920 still challenging with COVID though, Like you have to be 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.320 very very safe, so it's uh, you kind of you 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.040 live in a bubble, so it's it makes it a 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:05.800 little less fun, but in one way, it makes the 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.840 shows even more rewarding because that's really your that's where 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.400 you get to um have all the fun because everything 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.240 else is really boring. Right, So what works in terms 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.240 of performance? How do you make the audience connect with 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:25.880 you beyond the songs themselves. That's a very good question. Um, 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.200 I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I don't, 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.960 I've never I'm not one to super analyze what I 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:32.720 do because I think if I start to do that, 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.680 then I'll get too in my head about it. Um. 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.120 So as far as performing goes, I just try to 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.840 sing as well as I can and and perform as 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.160 honestly as I can, and really think about what I'm 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.160 saying and what I'm singing, and and try to connect 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.560 to the audience that way, and and just by being 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.400 very honest. And then there's also a you know, an 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.760 element of showmanship of course, when you're on a stage 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.360 that you know, there's lights and there's just makeup, and 0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:00.560 there's you know a bit of extra you know, moving 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.880 around that you don't do in the recording studio and 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.320 things like that. But uh, you know that that makes 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.520 for a fun show. But honestly, I think the the 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.240 most fun and the connection comes from the fans being 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.320 so into it, if that makes sense. And so you 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.520 can really it's this it's a it's a drug that 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.080 you can't really get anywhere else playing live because you 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.880 create this kind of symbiotic relationship with the fans where 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.400 you essentially become one in this in this nightly experience 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.640 that only lasts for one night and then you move 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.640 on to the next town, and it's it's the same 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.879 experience but completely different. And so that it's it's always 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.400 it's like groundhog Day, but never the same. So it's 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.760 it's very cool, it's a very it's it's difficult to 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.400 call it a job. Um, it's it's super super fun. 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.239 The job is the travel, the draw, The job is 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.760 everything around touring, but playing is simply a pleasure. Okay, 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.080 do you have a set list you use every night 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.919 or does the set list change? The set list is 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.960 always ever of all vena. This is this is the first, 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:05.520 and I won't say the first, but close to the 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.520 first time that we've actually had an issue putting a 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.080 set list together because we finally have we have so 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.040 much material now that we don't know how to hone 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.920 it down. Um, but you know, so we we put 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.080 together kind of a roundabout set lists depending on what 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.119 the shows are for. If it's an opening slot you 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:23.280 have x amount of time, a festivality of x amount 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.920 of time, and a headline show, you have obviously much 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.760 more leeway to kind of play with um and do 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.160 what you want. But so we have kind of three 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.679 set lists based on times that we work with and 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.400 then depending on the night, depending on how I'm feeling 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.560 and how the guys are feeling, we we alternate a 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:44.000 few songs and um, switch it up and and and 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.760 that's making it that's making tour and excuse me, that's 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:48.840 making touring very fun this time around two is that 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:50.760 it's not the same show every night, so it doesn't 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.400 get monotonous. It doesn't become this kind of your board 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.199 of the material by the third week. You know. Okay, 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.439 let's assume you are the opening band, which you certainly 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.680 have been a number of times in your career. Even worse, 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.800 you might even be playing in daylight and it's it's 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.959 really the headliners audience and you play. How do you 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:18.359 win over the audience? Mm hmmm, I don't know. I 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.600 wish I again, I wish I had a good answer. 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.160 I wish there was some little trick that you could 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:25.280 do that it would just magically make everyone love you. 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.840 But unfortunately that's not how the world works. So we 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.399 really just I, you know, I try to treat opening 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.239 shows or any show like it's our own show. And 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.040 that's how that's how I approach it like, we put 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.000 on the best show we possibly can, you know, play 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.679 the hell out of the songs, and and hope that 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:44.560 people like it and hope that they respond to it. 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:46.960 And you can't expect everyone in the in the world 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:51.200 to love you like that's just an unrealistic goal. So, um, 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.040 I think our our goal is to put on a 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.760 show that we're proud of, that we like because I 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:57.359 love playing in a band. Because I love playing in 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.440 a band. So if I'm having fun, you know, pathetically, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:10.720 you should be having fun too. I hope that that translates. Okay, 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:16.720 so every act needs fans to survive, but the fans 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.280 want a lot. What is your personal relationship with fances, Like, 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.960 you know, are there twenty people you know by face, 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.240 you know by name? Do you want to keep everybody 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.800 at arm's length? What's the situation? Um? Well, social media 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:34.560 has certainly changed the relationship with fans drastically, um because 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.199 when we started a social media was around, but it 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.840 was certainly not what it is today. Um. So I 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.159 think that, you know, it's a bit of both. I 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.760 think there's there's some super fans that come to every 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.439 show and follow us around the country. And I, you know, 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.280 follow them on Twitter and we'll chat, and I see 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.960 their faces everywhere and know who they are. And then 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.840 there's the kind of the mass, the masses of where 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:02.200 I don't know you individually, but I'm very appreciative of 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.520 of your support because I can't do this without them, 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.640 And you know, I can still write songs and I'd 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:08.840 probably still be making records, but you know, no one 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:12.000 would hear them if I didn't have any fans. So it's, uh, 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.760 it's I feel very fortunate to have fans. And it's 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.520 a it's a fine line of because I'm a very 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.359 I'm a very private person and so I kind of 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.080 struggle writing that line with social media of how much 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.280 of my life do I share and how much do 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.520 I keep private? And I think that it's a it's 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:31.719 a balance and a kind of teetering act that I'm 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:35.080 always playing with and trying to get more comfortable with 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:38.600 sharing more of myself, but at the same time, um 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:43.880 keeping myself protected to a degree to where I can 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:48.280 still be myself. And that's not that's not for every 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.280 you know, that's not for everyone. Not everything about me 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.639 is for everyone. Everything everything that I put into the 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:54.800 music and that I put forth into the world is 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:56.960 for everybody. But the you know, I still have my 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.280 private life that I keep just for myself as a 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.320 human beings. So it's this fine balance that I'm always 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:07.159 kind of toying with, and I still haven't quite figured 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.880 it out. I think, well, if you had any personal 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.359 bad experience this result of fans, you know, one in 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:18.359 ten fans is literally certifiably insane. It's just you don't 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:23.119 know which one it is. We have certainly had some 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:25.919 some crazy experiences with fans, some that have gotten a 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:30.639 bit out of hand, um, more physical. I mean, well, no, 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:32.720 it's but there's been both. I mean, I don't I 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.159 can't get into it. But we've had stalker issues with 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.080 where literally the FBI has been called and been deposed 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.199 and and you know, very serious issues that I'm not 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.119 actually really allowed to talk to talk about. Um. So 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:46.919 there's that side of things, which is super fun and 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.320 totally totally not scary at all. Um. But then there's 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:52.520 you know, the crazy encounters that shows and things where 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:54.760 like we I used to bring I used to bring 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:57.560 fans up on stage during a song called going Down. 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:00.159 That was this very fun moment in the show, and 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.240 I did that for years, and we went to We're 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:06.920 playing in China, and I brought fans up and the 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:12.320 chaos that ensued on stage, the the aggression and mayhem 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:14.440 where it just it got a little out of hand 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.760 and we didn't have security and it got dangerous where 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:20.160 my hair was ripped out of my head a girl. 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:26.560 The groping became very um unmanageable where I couldn't defend myself, 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:28.520 and so we had to stop doing that. So there's, 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:30.720 you know, certain antics we had to kind of tone 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:35.520 down just for personal safety, physical safety and things like that. 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:38.640 But but in general, I think fans are just they're 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:40.840 just enthusiasts. You know, I'm a fan. I'm a fan 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:43.600 of music. So it's it's getting to see your artists. 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:45.679 You want to let loose and have fun, but you know, 0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:49.960 just just don't go just don't go too far. Okay, 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:54.520 you started off with theme from television. Was that a 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:57.159 good thing or a bad thing for your musical career? 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:01.240 I think it was a catch twenty two. I think 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:06.280 I think that in in one way it was. It 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:09.560 was great because I had, you know, I had some 0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:12.080 name recognition, and so when we put out the first album, 0:24:12.160 --> 0:24:17.920 there was an immediate kind of there's an immediate attention 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:20.200 put on it where you know, it was put out 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.320 in a in a real way where you know, we 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:25.760 could play a show and people would show up. Um. 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:29.560 But in the grand scheme of things, I think that 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:34.439 it was actually quite detrimental because it was a It 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:38.719 was an extremely hard thing to overcome people's perception of 0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:40.760 me and that you know, people saw me as this 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:43.399 character that they watched on TV every week. And I 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.359 fully understand that. I fully understand watching your favorite TV 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.560 show and seeing that actor as the character that you 0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:52.040 see on television. They're not a real person, they're that character. 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:57.080 And so to kind of to disassociate myself from that 0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:00.840 character and have people see me as myself and as 0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:04.479 a musician and and as everything that I truly was 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:09.280 inside was was challenging. And to kind of gain you know, 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:11.800 there was a hurdle to kind of overcome, to gain credibility, 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:13.520 where I think a lot of people saw this as 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:17.159 like some sort of vanity project or this fleeing thing, like, oh, well, 0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:20.399 she's putting on a record because she can and whatever. 0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:23.640 When and when in reality, it was music is everything. 0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:25.680 That I am and everything that I have to give, 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.119 and I was trying to share that with the world 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:31.280 and getting kind of hit from me from multiple sides 0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:34.160 of it's hard to it's hard to prove yourself and 0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:36.400 and because there's no real way to do it, there's 0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:37.840 no good way to do it. You can't sit there 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:39.600 and tell someone no, I'm this, and they're going to no, 0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:42.199 you're this, and that arguing about it doesn't do anything. 0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:46.439 So it really just took time. It took to doing 0:25:46.480 --> 0:25:49.240 this for ten years and continuing to put out music 0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:51.240 and continuing to tour to have people kind of have 0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:55.560 that shift happened where people see me as Taylor Mompson 0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:58.280 and not this character I played, And so that was 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:00.160 a bit of a challenge, but it's it feels good 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:03.440 to be on the other side of it finally. Okay, 0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:07.639 when you made this transition, talking about the insight, you know, 0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:09.919 you have an age and maybe you have a manager, 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:12.399 you have an attorney, you have people are making money 0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:16.240 from you. Okay, what did they say when you wanted 0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:19.320 to be a musician? Oh man, they were not well 0:26:19.520 --> 0:26:22.480 when I when I said that I wanted to pursue music, 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:24.160 they were all for that when I said I wanted 0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:27.680 to quit everything else to pursue music, and that was that. 0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:31.159 Gods of phone calls. People were not happy about that, um, 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.320 because it was actually it was a big fight of mine. Um. 0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:36.000 You know, I was on the show gossip Girl and 0:26:36.040 --> 0:26:40.080 it was doing extremely well. And I became as I 0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:42.919 was getting older. You know, I started acting when I 0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:44.359 was two years old. I was put into it with 0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:48.199 my family. Um. You know, no no resentment there or anything. 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:49.719 You know. I think all those stories kind of got 0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:52.040 blown out of proportion. When I was younger, I said 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:54.440 some crazy things and they got taken out of context. 0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:56.720 But you know, I started acting when I was very young. 0:26:56.840 --> 0:26:58.879 But it was never this. It was never something that 0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:00.800 I chose for myself. It was something that I just 0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:05.040 always did and I didn't really know any differently. And 0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:07.280 when I started to get a little older in my 0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:11.960 teenage years, I had this kind of revelation where I realized, oh, 0:27:12.000 --> 0:27:14.280 I don't I don't have to do this, Like this 0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:17.679 is a job that I can quit. And it was 0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:21.040 like this, you know, lightning one off in my mind 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:22.639 where it was like, oh, this is so simple. I 0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:24.520 can just play in a band. I can just write 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:26.040 songs and do what I love. I don't have to 0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:29.280 do this other thing amazing woman to do that. And 0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:32.280 so when I made that decision in my head and 0:27:32.280 --> 0:27:35.440 then proceeded to tell everyone that, that's when I got 0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:37.960 a bit of, you know, a bit of a reaction, 0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:40.520 but a bit of backlash. And it was it was 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:43.119 actually quite challenging to leave the show because I was 0:27:43.200 --> 0:27:46.879 under contract. So it turns out quitting was not that easy. Um, 0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:49.359 And so it was that it was a very long 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:53.520 process of me trying to get out of out of 0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:56.080 the show. And I really came down to I had 0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:59.280 to call. I called Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage, the 0:27:59.720 --> 0:28:03.399 Cree leaders and writers, and begged them. I just begged them. 0:28:03.400 --> 0:28:05.920 I want this is making This isn't making me happy anymore. 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:08.280 This is this is this is not what I want 0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:10.520 to be doing with my life. I'm very thankful for 0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:13.120 everything you've given me and the platform that you've put 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:15.119 me on, and this has all been a great experience. 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:17.679 But I'm as a person and as a as a 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:21.280 growing woman, I need to go explore what I really 0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:25.560 want to do. And they because cw the head of 0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:29.480 Warren brothers had a c W. He was not uh, 0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:31.119 he was not going to let me out of my contract. 0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:32.359 So there was no way to get out of it. 0:28:32.400 --> 0:28:35.960 And so thankfully Stephanie and Josh, actually they want, we 0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:37.480 can't let you out of your deal, but what we 0:28:37.520 --> 0:28:40.240 can do is we can write your character out. Um. 0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:43.040 So that's what they did, and so they slowly kind 0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:46.000 of transition my character out of by writing it that 0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:48.920 way and allowed for me to go on tour and 0:28:48.920 --> 0:28:51.600 and really pursue my passion. And for that, I'm just 0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:55.920 forever grateful and indebted because they just they didn't have 0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:57.840 to do that, and I wouldn't be where I am 0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:00.440 now if they hadn't. So I'm just can't say thank 0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:03.960 you to them enough. Okay, if you're working on a 0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:09.880 TV show until you're on hiatus, the hours are unbelievably long, 0:29:10.640 --> 0:29:13.080 you know, and you almost can't live a life. So 0:29:13.120 --> 0:29:15.400 you can look at your bank account. You're getting paid, 0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:18.440 but you're not really spending any money, not thinking about it. 0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:21.400 And certainly once the show was picked up, it gets 0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:27.320 relatively lucrative. Generally speaking, music doesn't pay that well, especially 0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:29.960 not at the beginning. So once you got to the 0:29:30.000 --> 0:29:34.160 other side, you're extricated, you make a record. Whatever did 0:29:34.160 --> 0:29:37.360 you ever think, holy funk, what did I do? Or 0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:39.880 did you say, wait a second, this isn't what I 0:29:39.920 --> 0:29:44.200 thought it was going to be. Well, first of all, 0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:47.120 I was making to speak about long hours for a second, 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:50.440 because yeah, they're long hours. I mean, I was making 0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:52.640 the first album Light Me Up while I was still 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:54.400 on the show. So I was going to work at 0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:57.480 four in the morning, working until about seven at night, 0:29:57.520 --> 0:30:00.240 and then going straight to the studio and king in 0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:02.520 the studio toel I don't know, two in the morning, 0:30:02.640 --> 0:30:04.760 sleeping about two hours a night, and going right back 0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:06.800 to work. So I was burning the candle at both ends. 0:30:06.840 --> 0:30:09.480 And I think that was part of my decision to 0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:11.040 leave the show as well as It's just like I 0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:14.120 can't physically do both these things and one of them 0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:17.600 I love and can't not do um, So that was 0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:21.080 that was a challenge, and it's I get well now, 0:30:21.160 --> 0:30:22.720 I just kind of lost my train of thought because 0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:25.120 what was your question. I'm sorry, Bob. You know, once 0:30:25.160 --> 0:30:28.920 you finally extricate yourself and you are a musician, did 0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:32.520 you have any second thoughts and did you ultimately confront 0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:34.800 money issues? Like, Wow, this is gonna be hard. I'm 0:30:34.840 --> 0:30:38.200 gonna have to adjust things. Well. Money issues, of course, 0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:40.360 money issues is always a I think that's something that 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:44.520 no matter what level of life you've reached, you're always 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:47.880 you know, I think even the biggest actors in the world, 0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:50.840 you know, they still have money issues, right, Like doesn't everyone, 0:30:50.960 --> 0:30:53.480 So you know that's but that's something that's something you 0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:56.479 figure out as you go. Um as far as thinking 0:30:57.200 --> 0:30:59.880 did I make the right decision or or asking anything 0:30:59.880 --> 0:31:01.959 like that, that was that was never a question. As 0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:04.400 soon as I left and was just doing music full time, 0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:06.640 I finally felt free. I finally felt happy in a 0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:09.480 way that I'd never I never really felt in my 0:31:09.560 --> 0:31:12.760 life before. And then that's you know, that's the feeling 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:15.840 that I wouldn't trade anything for. You know, I'll be broken. 0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:18.720 I'd rather be broken happy than rich and and unhappy. 0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:22.600 You know. Okay, you grow up in Seeing Louis, how 0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:25.680 do you end up in show business? It's a good question. 0:31:25.800 --> 0:31:29.080 I again, none of this is from my memory, but 0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:32.800 the story goes uh that I my mom had some 0:31:32.840 --> 0:31:35.719 photographer friends who took some photos of me when I 0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:39.280 was like one and two. They somehow got sent to 0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:43.000 a modeling agency. Um, I got so, I got it 0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:45.200 started with I got signed to Ford Modeling when I 0:31:45.240 --> 0:31:51.520 was two and somewhere and going on calls for modeling gigs. 0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:55.160 I I guess I was very chatty. I'm not I'm 0:31:55.200 --> 0:31:57.560 not sure. I remember myself being a very shy kid, 0:31:57.600 --> 0:31:59.520 but I guess I was very talkative when I was little. 0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.960 And uh, my modeling agents said, you know, she should 0:32:02.960 --> 0:32:04.920 go on auditions, and so that was kind of the 0:32:05.000 --> 0:32:07.920 quick transition and to suddenly I was going on acting auditions. 0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:11.760 And I actually booked my first audition, which was for 0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:14.800 a commercial for Shake and Bake, and so that was 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:18.000 kind of, you know, the opening of the doors, I guess. 0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:21.240 And from that it was just my my family, Mom 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:23.720 and I would travel and go on auditions. We'd spend 0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:26.720 summers in New York. Um, and just go back and forth. 0:32:26.760 --> 0:32:30.400 I was kind of in and out of school and um, yeah, 0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:32.719 and then that's kind of how that happened. Okay, so 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.280 how many kids in the family, Just me and my 0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:39.280 younger sister. Okay, the younger sister followed this path at all. 0:32:40.240 --> 0:32:42.960 She she went on some auditions when she was younger, 0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:45.720 but she didn't. It wasn't the same thing as it 0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:48.000 was with me. So she did a couple of small 0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:50.200 roles when she was younger, and then that was it. 0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:52.840 And what did your father do when you and your 0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:56.000 mother were out working? He worked. He was a full 0:32:56.000 --> 0:32:59.760 time a full time job. I still never really understood 0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:02.640 what he did, but when he does. He he worked 0:33:02.640 --> 0:33:05.840 with electronics. He worked for a company called gp X. UM. 0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:07.920 I don't know if you remember that he designed the 0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:11.080 discman like he before computers and stuff. He would draw 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:14.280 the actual like what the new walkman and stuff would 0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:17.560 look like. Um. So he was on the creative side 0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:22.320 of of physical uh music players, which was actually quite cool. 0:33:22.680 --> 0:33:25.200 And then uh, and now he works for now he's 0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:27.880 works for another company. And I probably shouldn't go into 0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:29.400 what he does because I don't know if he'd like that. 0:33:29.440 --> 0:33:32.080 But but he was. He was at home working, and 0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:35.600 my mom and I would travel. And with your mom 0:33:35.640 --> 0:33:38.360 when you're two years old, that's fun. At some point, 0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:42.240 he gets old. At some point. I don't know that 0:33:42.320 --> 0:33:45.000 the travel ever got old. I loved going to different places. 0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:47.200 I loved New York City because that's where it started. 0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:49.240 Is we would we would go to New York in 0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:52.720 the summers when I was out of school and uh, 0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:55.120 you know, kind of rent a place for a couple 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:57.600 of months and I'd go on auditions and and do 0:33:57.720 --> 0:34:01.080 that thing there, and I fell in love with the city. 0:34:01.160 --> 0:34:03.200 Was so it makes it makes a lot of sense 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:05.880 that I still live here. Um. I love the energy 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:08.400 of it. And so the traveling I think was actually 0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:13.000 quite fun. But the constantly not really being in school 0:34:13.040 --> 0:34:17.760 and not really having a a traditional childhood, I guess 0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:20.200 certainly kind of took its toll on me in certain 0:34:20.239 --> 0:34:22.840 ways where I became very introverted because I didn't have 0:34:22.840 --> 0:34:24.560 a lot of friends. I didn't know how to connect 0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:28.279 to normal kids my age, I guess because I was 0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:31.759 living in this very different life than they were, and 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:33.920 so it put me in this very kind of isolated 0:34:34.640 --> 0:34:38.640 internal bubble, which is honestly when I turned to writing music, 0:34:38.680 --> 0:34:40.759 I started writing music before I even really knew what 0:34:40.800 --> 0:34:43.360 I was doing. I guess I started writing songs and 0:34:43.440 --> 0:34:46.439 you know, just how I was feeling, and I write 0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:48.920 it down and I put it to melody and little 0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:51.000 poems and things as as a kid like, you know, 0:34:51.160 --> 0:34:54.759 terrible songs, but songs nonetheless, and that's kind of where 0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:57.000 I fell in love with it. Of this, of this 0:34:57.000 --> 0:34:59.319 this world that I could create inside my own head, 0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:01.400 that nobody he could touch, and it was just mine. 0:35:01.440 --> 0:35:06.560 And um, it made me feel safe, I guess. So 0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:09.240 what was it like going to school? And then eventually 0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:11.040 when you get on a series, you're not in regular 0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:15.719 school at all? No? Um, well in I mean elementary 0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:19.000 school was in then out of school a lot uh where. 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:21.880 But I was still in school. I was in Catholic school. 0:35:21.920 --> 0:35:24.120 And so when I would go do a role or something, 0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:26.120 um and be gone for a couple of months, the 0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:28.040 school would give me my work and I would do 0:35:28.080 --> 0:35:29.920 it on set with a tutor. Um. So I was 0:35:29.920 --> 0:35:33.600 technically still enrolled in a school. And then when I 0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:36.040 moved to New York when I booked Gossip Girl, I 0:35:36.080 --> 0:35:40.759 moved here when I was twelve or thirteen. Um, officially, 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:43.920 I spent about it. I spent my freshman year of 0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:45.960 high school trying to go to a school, trying to 0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:48.600 go to a public school here in the city. Um, 0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:51.880 and just the work hours are so nuts that I 0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:53.840 gave up on that. I gave up on that and 0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:57.160 left and and just homeschooled and ended up graduating high 0:35:57.200 --> 0:35:59.919 school when I was like sixteen. Um, just by doing 0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:02.160 it on set with the tutor and just knock on 0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:05.400 the workout. Do you have any regrets you didn't go 0:36:05.480 --> 0:36:11.480 to college. No, I don't, but I thought about it. 0:36:11.520 --> 0:36:15.480 I wanted to go for like for writing or something, 0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:17.480 you know, something language arts or something like that. But 0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:21.280 I also think that college is something that you can 0:36:21.440 --> 0:36:24.759 always go back to. UM. And I'm I wouldn't say that. 0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:26.560 I never would do that either, if you know, if 0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:28.560 I wanted to learn a different skill, because I think 0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:31.000 it's always good to better yourself, but you can do 0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:33.480 that at any age. UM. But no, I joined a 0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.399 rock and roll band. There's no regrets. What sixteen year 0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:38.440 old doesn't want to fift I'm sorry, fifteen year old 0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:39.839 doesn't want to be in a rock and roll band 0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:42.000 and tour of the country. I got to do that 0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:45.400 and it's awesome. Okay, so you're on a TV show. 0:36:46.560 --> 0:36:53.200 What's it like having all that attention? Um? It was. 0:36:54.040 --> 0:36:56.600 It was definitely different than what I was used to 0:36:56.640 --> 0:36:59.240 because I had been you know, I had been acting 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:01.920 my whole life, and I've been in lots of roles 0:37:02.000 --> 0:37:04.080 and you know, some more high profile than other but 0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:08.600 never involved in the tabloid aspect of things. And Gossip 0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:11.680 Girl was a that was a transition to get in, 0:37:11.880 --> 0:37:14.920 an adjustment, to get used to where suddenly and you 0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:18.080 walked out of your house there was you know, paparazzi 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:22.040 on the street and they're following you around and uh, 0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:26.279 and suddenly your personal life became public literally being photographed 0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:29.319 and put into into for public consumption. And so that 0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:32.440 was that was different. That was strange, um because it 0:37:32.760 --> 0:37:35.640 happened overnight too. It was very There was no like 0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:38.880 slowly getting more and more famous. It was no one 0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:40.480 knows who you are, and the next day there's thirty 0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:43.400 people outside your house. And so it was very shocking, 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:47.120 I think at first. But I think I've adapted quickly 0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:49.360 to it and and kind of got used to it. 0:37:49.400 --> 0:37:52.000 And you know, I think Liam is Liam Gallagher. I 0:37:52.040 --> 0:37:53.960 think Liam Gallagher said, He's like, you know, fame is 0:37:54.000 --> 0:37:56.160 this kind of thing that you just keep keep kicking 0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:59.759 over your shoulder. It's this this this nuisance. It's there, 0:37:59.800 --> 0:38:01.839 but it's you know, it's not what it's about. It's 0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:04.719 it's very fleeting, and it's just this thing that is 0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:10.239 around and you just learn to manage it. Okay, A 0:38:10.239 --> 0:38:13.920 lot of people who are very famous at that age 0:38:14.040 --> 0:38:18.080 grow up very fast. They drink, they do drugs, they 0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:23.440 have sex. What was your experience, Well, um, I think 0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:27.200 if you listen to my albums, it's probably some indication 0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:30.880 of what my life is like. Um But no, I 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:34.319 mean I I certainly grew up very quickly. Um. I 0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:36.960 you know I've never had friends at my own age 0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:39.239 that all my friends are older than me, even when 0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:43.040 I was like a kid. Um but I think that's 0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:46.200 just that's just subject to my surroundings. You know, That's 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:48.960 not that wasn't necessarily by choice. It's just the people 0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:53.640 that I could identify with and communicate with and and 0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:57.480 felt a kindred you know, spirit with or whatever just 0:38:57.520 --> 0:38:59.520 happened to always be older, just due to the my 0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:04.319 life circumstances. Um. So, I certainly you know I grew 0:39:04.400 --> 0:39:06.560 up quickly, and I've I've now mellowed out in my 0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:12.239 old age of eight. So you're writing songs from a 0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:14.680 young age. At what point do you say to yourself, 0:39:15.080 --> 0:39:17.000 wait a second, I can do this. I want to 0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:21.520 do it. I think I always knew that, and it 0:39:21.600 --> 0:39:25.320 was always something that I was pursuing, um, just the differences. 0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:28.640 When you're you know, a led ten eleven years old. 0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:31.399 You can have an acting career, but I don't think 0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:33.160 anyone wants to listen to what a ten year old 0:39:33.160 --> 0:39:36.799 has to say in music, at least I hope not. UM. 0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:38.600 So you know, I had to get to an age 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:41.239 where I had enough life experience and I had enough 0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:45.560 um enough, I had enough things to say that we're 0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:49.799 you know, important and relevant and and get to and also, 0:39:49.880 --> 0:39:51.560 you write a lot of bad songs before you write 0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:53.600 good ones. It's just you know, how it goes. And 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:55.919 so I had to get to a place where I 0:39:55.920 --> 0:39:58.840 actually wrote a record's worth of material that I genuinely 0:39:58.880 --> 0:40:00.880 wanted the world to hear in and I was super 0:40:00.880 --> 0:40:04.319 proud of and wanted to put out in a public way. Um. 0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:06.040 And so that's really all it was. It was just 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:08.319 a lot of practice and when I finally met the 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:11.719 right people, formed the band, you know, wrote records worth 0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:13.600 of songs that I was really proud of. It all 0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:16.279 just kind of came together very seamlessly, um, in this 0:40:16.480 --> 0:40:20.640 very chismic kind of magical way that you know, it's 0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:24.560 very lucky in in this world. I think like it. 0:40:24.800 --> 0:40:29.240 You know, finding finding musical partners and like minded people 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:32.520 is a challenge. And the fact that it kind of 0:40:32.560 --> 0:40:35.160 all just everything just kind of fell into place at once, 0:40:35.239 --> 0:40:37.239 that that's kind of that's the best way to say it. 0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:40.759 We're just all kind of clicked and it was just 0:40:40.840 --> 0:40:51.120 it flowed like water. You listen to your music, it's 0:40:51.160 --> 0:40:55.160 what we call active rock today. Maybe I would think 0:40:55.160 --> 0:40:57.399 that'd be the best description. And although you talk about 0:40:57.440 --> 0:41:00.120 your influences online, the first thing I hear is a 0:41:00.239 --> 0:41:05.560 C d C. This is very different from when a 0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:08.160 C d C was really happening in late seventies and 0:41:08.160 --> 0:41:12.200 early eighties, where everything mixed together. One could say that 0:41:12.440 --> 0:41:16.400 hard rock is its own ghetto. Most people who have 0:41:16.520 --> 0:41:20.040 fame in other areas going to pop okay, stuff that 0:41:20.160 --> 0:41:25.360 Spotify Top fifty, work with producers, etcetera. How did you 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:28.280 decide to go? I'm sure the music led you there, 0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:31.160 but you're a smart person. You must have realized where 0:41:31.200 --> 0:41:34.759 you were going. I did. I didn't. I didn't. I 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:38.040 I didn't think I was that calculated. I wasn't because 0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:41.440 I wasn't doing I wasn't making music for fame and 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:43.839 success like that was never my goal. I already had 0:41:43.880 --> 0:41:45.960 that to a degree with something else, so I knew, 0:41:46.000 --> 0:41:48.680 I had experienced that. I knew what that was, and 0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:50.880 that was never a goal of mine. It was something 0:41:50.920 --> 0:41:55.000 that it just was. It was. It wasn't necessarily interesting 0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:57.319 to me. I you know, I really got into music 0:41:57.360 --> 0:42:00.600 because I wanted to express myself, and rock and roll 0:42:00.719 --> 0:42:03.719 was always just what I loved, you know, It's what 0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:05.200 I grew up with. That's what I grew up with 0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:08.040 listening to and fell in love with. And you know, 0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:10.440 the depth of the music from you know, they started 0:42:10.640 --> 0:42:14.320 they started with the Beatles, which is you know, not uncommon, 0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:16.640 I would say, but I fell in love with the Beatles, 0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:20.240 and then Led Zeppelin and the Who and Pink Floyd 0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:24.880 and A. C. D. C. And Neil Young and uh, 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:27.120 when I got a little older, it was you know, 0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:30.239 Jimmy Hendrix, and then all the nineties stuff with Sound 0:42:30.280 --> 0:42:33.439 Garden and Nirvana and Oasis and Pearl Jam and and 0:42:33.440 --> 0:42:36.880 and just every every band and artist that I loved 0:42:37.080 --> 0:42:39.279 was under the genre of rock and roll where it 0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:41.759 was just this kind of pure, the purest form of 0:42:41.800 --> 0:42:47.040 self expression and an aggression and vulnerability and and it 0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:49.400 was smart. Um you know, it had depth and it 0:42:49.400 --> 0:42:52.480 had layers to it, and it wasn't this kind of fleeting, 0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:55.520 you can bop your head to it music. It was 0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:58.719 something that you could really sit with and and and 0:42:59.120 --> 0:43:01.600 escape into and go somewhere else. And that's that's the 0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:04.920 kind of music that I always um loved and and 0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:07.480 still love and and that's the kind of music that 0:43:07.520 --> 0:43:09.920 I wanted to make. Um that and I also just 0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:14.200 love electric guitars because they're super fun. So okay, so 0:43:14.320 --> 0:43:17.400 you've had I think five number one you know, rock tracks, 0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:19.759 But you can have a number one rock track and 0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:23.439 of America doesn't even know who you are, never mind 0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:31.000 heard the track. Is that frustrating? I think that it's 0:43:31.000 --> 0:43:32.640 a good question. I don't I don't know that I've 0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:36.000 ever looked at it in a way of frustration. I 0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:39.600 think that I think that there's music that deserves to 0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:41.319 be I think that there's you know, rock and roll 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:43.879 has become this very niche market. I don't think that 0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:46.880 that's a you know, a surprise to anyone, and I 0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:51.400 don't think that that's necessarily deserved. Um. I think that 0:43:54.480 --> 0:43:56.960 how do I want to say this? And you know, 0:43:57.880 --> 0:43:59.520 to meet Rocket, you have to remember that rock and 0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:01.719 rolls alway has been on the outskirts. You know, it's 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:06.320 it's never really been at the forefront of pop culture 0:44:06.400 --> 0:44:09.479 except for in the moments where it takes over. And 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:11.759 and to me, music is very cyclical, like it's you know, 0:44:11.800 --> 0:44:14.800 if you look at the history of music over time, 0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:17.960 like starting with say, starting with like the fifties, the fifties, 0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:21.520 it was very single bass, very pop um, and you know, 0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:23.480 then the sixties and seventies came in where there was 0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:27.759 this kind of renaissance of artists and musicians that overtook 0:44:27.800 --> 0:44:33.600 the formula that was um did the uh the industry, 0:44:33.760 --> 0:44:36.000 and you know, it overtook the industry this pure expression 0:44:36.000 --> 0:44:38.600 where it was just undeniably great, and rock and roll 0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:42.400 had this you know, renaissance and resurgence. And then the 0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:45.480 eighties came in and I think everyone tried to kind 0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:48.080 of emulate something and everything started to kind of lean 0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:51.400 a little bit more towards the pop vein of um. 0:44:51.440 --> 0:44:53.600 You know, there's a bit of a lack of depth 0:44:53.680 --> 0:44:57.239 in my opinion. And then the nineties came and there 0:44:57.280 --> 0:45:00.200 was your next resurgence with grunge and Nirvana and song 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:02.120 ern and prol Jam and where and everyone Else and 0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:05.279 chains YadA YadA, where it just it over. It was 0:45:05.360 --> 0:45:10.920 so raw and so honest and so just the purest 0:45:10.960 --> 0:45:13.480 form of expression that it was undeniably great and it 0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:16.560 moved everybody. And that's the kind of music that I 0:45:16.800 --> 0:45:18.640 strive to make. And I think that that's the kind 0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:21.040 of music that every artist strive to make, necessarily in 0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:24.560 that genre, but music that is so passionate that it 0:45:24.960 --> 0:45:27.640 touches people whether you want it to or not. And 0:45:27.680 --> 0:45:29.880 I think that that, you know, and then after the nineties, 0:45:30.239 --> 0:45:32.920 it's hard to find musicians like that, in bands that 0:45:32.960 --> 0:45:36.279 are that great. You know, there they're anomalies. And that's 0:45:36.320 --> 0:45:39.720 why it's an unn you know, from an industry standpoint, 0:45:39.880 --> 0:45:42.600 you can't manufacture that. You can't constantly make that. And 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:44.759 I think that's why pop always ends up coming and 0:45:44.880 --> 0:45:48.160 rising to the surface again. And so I think right 0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:50.319 now we're just in the process of waiting for the 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:53.000 next rock and roll resurgence where it comes back because 0:45:53.000 --> 0:45:56.600 it can't die. It's too primal. That's what rock and 0:45:56.680 --> 0:45:59.080 roll is to me. It's it's it's so primal, it's 0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:03.080 the ultimate freedom. And when when you hit the nail 0:46:03.080 --> 0:46:06.239 on the head. It's it's undeniable, and I think that 0:46:06.280 --> 0:46:08.959 we're just waiting for that next moment, and I hope that, 0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:11.920 you know, we could be a part of that that resurgence. 0:46:11.920 --> 0:46:13.960 And it's never it's never gonna look like what you 0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:17.600 think it's gonna look like either, um, and so you know, 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:21.960 always keeping my eyes peeled, I guess, Okay, Pretty Reckless 0:46:22.000 --> 0:46:28.200 has been on four different labels. How come? Um, Well, 0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:33.520 it's ah, every album we've been on a different record label. UM. 0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:39.640 Partially partially because I'm very I like to maintain creative control, UM. 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:42.600 And so I don't like having people in my ear, 0:46:43.320 --> 0:46:45.520 especially from an industry side of things, telling me what 0:46:45.600 --> 0:46:48.080 I can and can't say, or can't you can't write, 0:46:48.160 --> 0:46:51.000 or I don't like having and only having people in 0:46:51.000 --> 0:46:52.480 the studio. I don't like A and R, I don't 0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:54.359 like I don't like people telling me what to make 0:46:54.800 --> 0:46:57.920 and so I I found that for me it works 0:46:57.920 --> 0:47:00.759 best to kind of create, create what I want to make, 0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:03.879 make the album, and create this finished product and then 0:47:04.040 --> 0:47:06.080 pass it around to the people and let them listen 0:47:06.160 --> 0:47:10.080 and and then find the best partner for that record 0:47:10.239 --> 0:47:13.359 and see who's the most enthused, and who's the who 0:47:13.400 --> 0:47:15.480 makes the most sense, Who's who's really behind it and 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:17.799 gets what I'm trying to say and what we're trying 0:47:17.840 --> 0:47:20.880 to go, what we're going for, and and who can 0:47:20.920 --> 0:47:23.439 help put that out into the world in the best 0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:25.640 way possible. So that's what That's kind of what's happened 0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:28.440 with every album is I've licensed the records, I make them, 0:47:28.440 --> 0:47:30.640 and then I licensed them to who. Okay, but usually 0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:34.560 they want a longer commitment to go into business with you. 0:47:35.840 --> 0:47:39.800 So ay, when you were with Interscope, a traditional major label, 0:47:40.360 --> 0:47:42.560 did they want you to do things? Did they want 0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:44.799 to get it involved creatively or marking and the way 0:47:44.840 --> 0:47:47.400 you didn't like it? And did you have to negotiate 0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:49.560 a split or did they only have one record or 0:47:49.560 --> 0:47:54.080 did they say we're done? Um? Interscope was well, they 0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:58.360 certainly they certainly wanted to push me into more of 0:47:58.400 --> 0:48:02.520 a pop vein which I fully understand um, and I 0:48:02.600 --> 0:48:09.239 was very resistant against that and very definitive in in 0:48:09.400 --> 0:48:12.359 the music that I was making and was not going 0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:17.839 to bend uh. And so that relationship kind of kind 0:48:17.880 --> 0:48:20.359 of just we hit a point where it just we 0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:22.880 were both going in different directions and it just wasn't working. 0:48:22.960 --> 0:48:25.640 And I also, I thankfully have had very good management, 0:48:25.640 --> 0:48:28.279 so who helped me kind of get out of that 0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:32.480 out of that deal. Um. But it's basically what I've 0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:35.520 done is I've I've tried to create a very good 0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:38.160 team of people around me that are in my core 0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:42.120 unit that I've selected myself over the course of um 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:46.279 a decade or so, and that's who I trust with, 0:48:46.400 --> 0:48:49.720 and that's you know, that's where the the grand plan 0:48:49.960 --> 0:48:51.600 you know, I wish there was one, but the grand 0:48:51.640 --> 0:48:56.080 plans formulated and then the labels become this kind of um, 0:48:56.120 --> 0:48:59.880 you know, addition that we add to the team on 0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:04.480 each album based on where we're at as a unit. Okay, 0:49:04.480 --> 0:49:06.919 so they got a Razor and Tie. Razor and Tie 0:49:07.000 --> 0:49:10.160 is basically known at the time. It's now part of Concorde, 0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:13.160 but it was independent then, primarily known for kids bop 0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:17.800 catalog releases. They didn't have a ton of success with 0:49:17.960 --> 0:49:20.960 their new music label. What was it like being on 0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:26.480 Razor and Tie as opposed to Interscope. It was, that's 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:29.680 a good question. It was very in one way very 0:49:29.760 --> 0:49:32.400 similar and one way very different. Um. You know, I 0:49:32.480 --> 0:49:37.399 think the first thing is that we we made. They 0:49:37.520 --> 0:49:39.360 knew what they were getting. Razor Time knew what they 0:49:39.400 --> 0:49:41.680 were getting with us. They knew, you know, they had 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:45.240 heard the album. They knew what they what the product product. 0:49:45.280 --> 0:49:46.840 I hate being called the product, but it is. It 0:49:47.000 --> 0:49:48.279 is at the end of the day, they knew what 0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:50.200 the product was. They knew what they were trying to sell. 0:49:50.320 --> 0:49:52.799 And so you know when we met with them, UM 0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:55.320 and Cliff the president at the time, he was just 0:49:55.480 --> 0:49:58.640 he was very he was a music lover. He seemed 0:49:58.640 --> 0:50:01.960 to very he seemed to stand the record UM on 0:50:02.120 --> 0:50:05.799 a on a very deep level, which I appreciated. UM 0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:09.800 and it and they had a it just it I 0:50:09.840 --> 0:50:11.680 don't know, you know how you know how industry is. 0:50:11.719 --> 0:50:14.000 It just kind of all clicked and it made sense. 0:50:14.080 --> 0:50:16.920 It made sense at the time. And uh and I 0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:18.600 think we did. You know, they did a great job 0:50:18.680 --> 0:50:20.239 with it. Like we had our first number one on 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:23.080 that record. So it was, you know, we weren't under 0:50:23.120 --> 0:50:26.160 the major label umbrella, but I had all the freedom 0:50:26.239 --> 0:50:29.920 in the world to to to do and be who 0:50:30.080 --> 0:50:33.120 and how I wanted to be. And and that's that's 0:50:33.160 --> 0:50:35.799 what I'm going for, is is you know, I've I've 0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:40.080 played the character. I've done the game, and I just 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:43.680 want to I want the music and the art to 0:50:43.719 --> 0:50:45.840 speak for itself and I want that to which I 0:50:45.880 --> 0:50:48.480 know is sometimes an unrealistic goal, but I want that 0:50:48.680 --> 0:50:51.400 to be at the forefront and I want and I 0:50:51.480 --> 0:50:53.040 want it to be my way or not do it 0:50:53.080 --> 0:50:54.560 at all, because I just don't see the point if 0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:56.799 it's not my way. And so that's kind of where 0:50:56.920 --> 0:51:00.280 the licensing of albums seemed to make the most answer 0:51:00.280 --> 0:51:03.520 for me and has until this point and still does so, 0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.440 where I just I really don't have to give anything away. 0:51:06.600 --> 0:51:10.520 I can. I can maintain all the artistic control, and 0:51:10.640 --> 0:51:14.200 that's the most important thing to me. Okay, I must say, 0:51:14.360 --> 0:51:17.960 as you talk, you give the impression that everything's hunky dory, 0:51:18.160 --> 0:51:21.879 everything's great, the label's great, got out of your TV deal, 0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:25.080 you've got a good management, whatever. But those of us 0:51:25.120 --> 0:51:27.880 on the inside, no, it's never that way. There's a 0:51:28.000 --> 0:51:33.080 lot of frustration, a lot of angst. So can you 0:51:33.160 --> 0:51:35.960 tell us a little bit about that. Even the most 0:51:36.000 --> 0:51:39.160 successful acts. Oh, I mean there's tons of there's tons 0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:42.040 of frustration and challenges and angst and everything that comes 0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:45.359 up all the time. But you know, honestly, right now, 0:51:45.640 --> 0:51:49.160 I'm there's not really too many issues, which I haven't 0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:51.319 been able to say for a long time because there's 0:51:51.360 --> 0:51:53.680 been a lot of personal issues and everything is kind 0:51:53.719 --> 0:51:56.120 of hunky dorry for lack of a better term, right now, 0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:58.040 and it and it feels good to be in that place. 0:51:58.520 --> 0:52:01.479 I mean, if I was going to go down memory lane, 0:52:01.520 --> 0:52:03.480 which I could do, but I would honestly have to 0:52:03.560 --> 0:52:05.680 get the band and help in here just to remember 0:52:05.719 --> 0:52:09.000 everything because it's you know, it moves quickly, and there's 0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:11.640 a there's a lot of a lot of stuff has 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:14.800 happened that to even remember all the little details. But 0:52:15.960 --> 0:52:17.960 but no, I mean getting off the television show that 0:52:18.080 --> 0:52:20.920 was not easy. That was extremely hard. That was tons 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:23.560 of fighting and arguing and back and forth and uh, 0:52:23.800 --> 0:52:25.960 you know, and it eventually ended in a place that 0:52:26.360 --> 0:52:29.120 that was pleasing to both parties. Um, it's you know, 0:52:29.239 --> 0:52:31.279 same thing with Endoscope get you know, getting out of 0:52:31.640 --> 0:52:35.280 a deal that didn't fit what I you know, didn't 0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:38.360 fit the picture of what I wanted my career to 0:52:38.520 --> 0:52:41.840 look like was super challenging. You know. So there's a 0:52:41.880 --> 0:52:44.200 lot there's been lots of challenges and lots of fighting 0:52:44.280 --> 0:52:46.279 throughout the years, but at the end of the day, 0:52:46.440 --> 0:52:50.239 I you gotta let all that go because if it's 0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:53.040 not currently happening, then what's the point of hanging onto it. 0:52:53.200 --> 0:52:55.560 Like life's too hard as it is, you gotta move. 0:52:55.640 --> 0:52:57.320 I'm a little bit of a hippie in that way, like, 0:52:57.440 --> 0:53:06.320 move on, next thing. Okay, So today it is you know, 0:53:06.440 --> 0:53:10.239 you're at the center, You're in the universe. You get 0:53:10.320 --> 0:53:14.600 to pray, depressed taking anti depressants? Are you always upbeat too? 0:53:14.680 --> 0:53:18.400 Your active? You know, what's your inner life like? Um? 0:53:19.760 --> 0:53:24.040 I certainly struggle with ups and downs. Um. I think 0:53:24.160 --> 0:53:26.920 that I always have and and I went through a 0:53:27.040 --> 0:53:29.960 very bad bout with depression over the past few years 0:53:30.000 --> 0:53:33.359 while making this album. Um, we lost many people close 0:53:33.440 --> 0:53:36.120 to us, and that took me down a very dark 0:53:36.239 --> 0:53:40.200 path of depression and substance abuse and and everything that 0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:44.240 comes along with loss. Um that I wasn't equipped to handle. 0:53:44.440 --> 0:53:47.439 And it's, you know, to make a long story short, 0:53:47.560 --> 0:53:49.520 that's that's where Death by Rock and Roll came from. 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:52.600 It was it was me pretty much at my lowest 0:53:52.920 --> 0:53:56.600 and using trying to use music to to pull myself 0:53:56.640 --> 0:53:58.120 out of this hole that I didn't know how to 0:53:58.200 --> 0:54:02.319 get out of and it. And now I'm at now 0:54:02.640 --> 0:54:04.800 you know, I've made that record, I've I've grown a 0:54:04.880 --> 0:54:07.960 lot in the past few years, and now I'm just 0:54:08.040 --> 0:54:10.120 trying to get back to life. I guess if that 0:54:10.200 --> 0:54:12.680 makes sense. I mean, we you know, I spent so 0:54:12.880 --> 0:54:16.040 long in isolation and then COVID obviously you know everyone did, 0:54:16.080 --> 0:54:19.200 but that just extended this the sentence that I had 0:54:19.239 --> 0:54:21.920 put on myself another two years. And so now I'm 0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:23.840 just trying to kind of get back into the world 0:54:23.920 --> 0:54:26.719 again and see how that feels and try you know, 0:54:26.840 --> 0:54:30.479 try those try those shoes on, because it's been a minute, 0:54:30.520 --> 0:54:32.120 and you know, get back out there and tour and 0:54:32.280 --> 0:54:36.400 play and and see the fans and um, and just 0:54:36.719 --> 0:54:39.759 try to live. I guess a little bit um and that, 0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:42.480 you know when I still struggle with ups and downs 0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:45.800 and and of course like everyone does, and um, you know, 0:54:45.920 --> 0:54:47.960 some are more severe than others. And I don't really 0:54:48.040 --> 0:54:49.680 have a good answer to get out of it. Uh, 0:54:49.880 --> 0:54:52.600 I wish I did. I tend to always turn to music, 0:54:52.680 --> 0:54:55.719 as cliche as it sounds, That's that's where my head goes, 0:54:55.760 --> 0:54:58.960 because it's it's somewhere that I can escape and somewhere 0:54:59.000 --> 0:55:02.920 that I can also feel secure, and um, you know, 0:55:03.000 --> 0:55:05.560 it's it's kind of like a I don't know, there's 0:55:05.640 --> 0:55:08.800 there's music for every emotion and and and you know 0:55:08.960 --> 0:55:11.800 when you scroll through when I scroll through my records, 0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:13.560 I can always find a song for what I for 0:55:13.680 --> 0:55:17.080 what I need. And and that's kind of what I 0:55:17.200 --> 0:55:19.680 try to turn to because turning the drugs and alcohol 0:55:19.800 --> 0:55:21.680 just that wasn't working for me anymore. That was going 0:55:21.719 --> 0:55:24.960 to kill me. So you know, so now that's that's 0:55:25.000 --> 0:55:27.040 what my life looks like. I'm just trying to stay 0:55:27.080 --> 0:55:29.560 on the positive side of things and and get out 0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:32.839 there and um live. So what a couple of year 0:55:32.880 --> 0:55:37.360 go to records coaching records? Well, every Beatles record is 0:55:37.400 --> 0:55:42.040 a mainstay. Wait, wait, what's your favorite Beatles album? I 0:55:42.120 --> 0:55:45.239 can't pick one. I know that's because you can't pick one. 0:55:45.280 --> 0:55:50.799 It's the whole. You know, I have one now, it's 0:55:50.920 --> 0:55:53.200 changed from what it was earlier, So give me your 0:55:53.320 --> 0:56:01.879 general sensibility. Um, it's it's always different. I mean, okay, 0:56:01.880 --> 0:56:04.520 well right now I'm listening to the anthology a lot, 0:56:04.760 --> 0:56:06.560 just because it has all of the all of the 0:56:06.640 --> 0:56:08.719 different demos and all the versions of songs, which I 0:56:08.719 --> 0:56:11.359 think is very cool to listen to and explore. Um. 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:13.960 I also have been why I still haven't finished it. 0:56:14.080 --> 0:56:17.160 I think it's it's amazing. I haven't finished Get Back yet, 0:56:17.320 --> 0:56:19.800 which I is the I think the greatest thing to 0:56:19.880 --> 0:56:25.480 happen to cinema and ever. Um, I'm so fascinated by it. 0:56:25.560 --> 0:56:27.440 I'm so in love with it. But it's taking me 0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:29.320 forever to get through because I have to pose it 0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:31.759 every two seconds and rewind it and just make sure 0:56:31.800 --> 0:56:35.520 I soaked in every little moment of it. Okay, let's stop. 0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:39.000 Where are you? I'm still I'm still about halfway through 0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:41.799 the first one, and it's taken me about how when 0:56:41.840 --> 0:56:45.120 did it come out? Three months? Are watching the first one? 0:56:45.200 --> 0:56:48.120 All I can say is I find the three episodes 0:56:48.280 --> 0:56:52.040 quite different. They that's what I've heard. But I'm again, 0:56:52.080 --> 0:56:53.880 I'm only on the first one. But I'm waiting for 0:56:54.880 --> 0:57:00.359 what did you take from what you actually saw? First 0:57:00.400 --> 0:57:02.800 of all, just how genius it is, but but I 0:57:03.000 --> 0:57:05.759 already knew that, but also just getting to see kind 0:57:05.800 --> 0:57:08.759 of the full extensions. It's like the unedited version of 0:57:08.840 --> 0:57:11.239 everything I've been watching my whole life, you know, to 0:57:11.320 --> 0:57:13.880 see this footage that's existed and I've never seen before 0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:17.880 is mind blowing. But I think that I'm taking a 0:57:17.920 --> 0:57:19.720 lot of things from it. I think one, it's it's 0:57:19.760 --> 0:57:22.600 amazing to see the similarities. I mean, not that I'm 0:57:22.760 --> 0:57:25.560 ever trying to compare myself to the greatness of the Beatles, 0:57:25.680 --> 0:57:27.960 but to see the similarities of of what it's like 0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:29.920 to be in a band and to to be a 0:57:30.680 --> 0:57:34.080 writer and to be, you know, in working with three 0:57:34.120 --> 0:57:36.880 other people and and have that kind of camaraderie, and 0:57:36.960 --> 0:57:39.160 that the arguments and the banter and the just the 0:57:39.440 --> 0:57:43.160 their overall kind of demeanor is very similar to us 0:57:43.640 --> 0:57:46.680 in a lot of ways. Um, which is very cool 0:57:46.800 --> 0:57:49.800 to see that. You know, artists such as you know, 0:57:49.960 --> 0:57:52.480 the greats like the Beatles are at the end of 0:57:52.600 --> 0:57:54.680 the day, you know, they're human too, and and there's 0:57:54.760 --> 0:57:59.560 and so I'm I'm just fascinated by it. Aspect you're 0:57:59.640 --> 0:58:01.480 being is in a room or studio, what do you 0:58:01.680 --> 0:58:05.720 argue over? Oh my god, the like everything. I mean, 0:58:06.440 --> 0:58:08.760 there was one fight that I'll never forget where it was. 0:58:09.160 --> 0:58:10.520 I mean, I thought it was going to come to 0:58:10.600 --> 0:58:12.720 blows and it was just over how loud the high 0:58:12.760 --> 0:58:15.720 hat should be like it was. It was intense. It 0:58:15.840 --> 0:58:19.000 was a good twenty minute screaming match back and forth 0:58:19.120 --> 0:58:23.800 between me, Ben and Kato and it it was and 0:58:23.920 --> 0:58:27.440 we're not fighters, were not physical fighters, but it got close. 0:58:28.120 --> 0:58:30.240 So that's just one example. It's we fight over the arc. 0:58:30.360 --> 0:58:32.160 It's you know, it's a it's a let's go back 0:58:32.200 --> 0:58:34.680 to the high hat. What did everybody? What did you want? 0:58:35.560 --> 0:58:37.400 I don't even remember at this point on So this 0:58:37.560 --> 0:58:39.720 is the first record, Um, this was light me up. 0:58:39.720 --> 0:58:41.920 I don't remember what I actually what I wanted or 0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:43.920 what I don't remember if we might have all been 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:46.040 even saying the same thing, but we just weren't listening 0:58:46.080 --> 0:58:47.840 to each other, Like I don't think any of us 0:58:47.840 --> 0:58:49.840 actually knew by the end of the argument, but we 0:58:49.920 --> 0:58:52.960 were so adamant about whatever it was. I knew it 0:58:53.000 --> 0:58:56.160 was a high hat, that it was just it got 0:58:56.320 --> 0:58:58.880 very heated very quickly, and ever wanted to walk out 0:58:58.880 --> 0:59:00.600 of the room and cool off and come back. And 0:59:00.680 --> 0:59:02.240 then it was probably just like turn it down a 0:59:02.400 --> 0:59:04.480 quarter of a dB and we're all happy. It's probably 0:59:04.480 --> 0:59:07.560 something that careful. There's a theme of you wanting to 0:59:07.720 --> 0:59:11.880 do it your way, So are you the ultimate arbiter 0:59:12.080 --> 0:59:15.760 in the act. Yeah, well, if it's I mean, if 0:59:16.840 --> 0:59:18.360 I would say Ben and I are Ben and I 0:59:18.400 --> 0:59:20.560 because we write the songs, and so if they're if 0:59:20.640 --> 0:59:25.720 they don't, you know, if the recording doesn't capture what 0:59:26.520 --> 0:59:29.720 our intent was, or doesn't do the song justice to 0:59:29.880 --> 0:59:34.600 its fullest potential or whatever it Uh, we're immensely unhappy. 0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:38.320 And it's and it's like you're destroying our children. Um. 0:59:38.680 --> 0:59:42.120 So it's it's this very you know, it's this very 0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:44.800 tumultuous thing where it's like if you like working with 0:59:44.880 --> 0:59:47.280 different producer, we always worked with Kata. That's why it 0:59:47.360 --> 0:59:50.200 was is a very beatle like relationship where we worked 0:59:50.240 --> 0:59:52.920 with the same person George Martin beatles us and Kato 0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:55.760 because we build upon that. We built upon that relationship 0:59:55.840 --> 0:59:59.080 and so um, you know, in a musical partnership where 0:59:59.520 --> 1:00:04.480 it became symbiotic and so are our minds just kind 1:00:04.480 --> 1:00:08.640 of intuitively worked together and we all had the same goal. Um. 1:00:09.000 --> 1:00:11.920 And so losing him and having him pass was a huge, 1:00:13.000 --> 1:00:15.439 huge impact. I mean, not only was he my best friend, 1:00:15.480 --> 1:00:17.840 but he was the fifth member of the band. He 1:00:17.960 --> 1:00:20.960 was this very integral part in the making of our records. 1:00:21.280 --> 1:00:24.440 And so losing that was extraordinarily difficult, and trying to 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:29.480 replace that it was nearly impossible. And so um, and 1:00:30.400 --> 1:00:32.560 where was I going with us? Sorry um and so 1:00:32.840 --> 1:00:35.640 too to find that again. I don't know that we'll 1:00:35.680 --> 1:00:37.680 ever find that again. And so that's what that's what 1:00:37.880 --> 1:00:40.440 made this album Death by Rock and Roll very different 1:00:41.000 --> 1:00:42.480 in a lot of ways, is that it was us 1:00:42.560 --> 1:00:46.440 kind of figuring out how to us figuring out how 1:00:46.480 --> 1:00:49.520 to make records without Kato, which seemed like an impossible 1:00:49.560 --> 1:00:52.760 task I think when we started, um and luckily we 1:00:53.040 --> 1:00:55.720 we we knew one other guy named Jonathan Wyman who 1:00:55.800 --> 1:00:58.600 was an old, dear friend of ours who's just a 1:00:58.720 --> 1:01:01.280 great engineer, and so we called him up. And that's 1:01:01.280 --> 1:01:05.680 how we didn't made this together where we actually been 1:01:05.720 --> 1:01:07.600 and I actually co produced it because we were so 1:01:07.920 --> 1:01:11.920 involved within controlling about these songs that were so precious 1:01:12.000 --> 1:01:16.200 and so dear that there was no um, there's no 1:01:16.360 --> 1:01:18.960 other way around it. So I don't remember where I 1:01:19.040 --> 1:01:20.560 started with this. I had if I had a full 1:01:20.600 --> 1:01:27.200 circle moment, but I forgot what your question was. And 1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:30.960 so yes, So my point, my point being, so we're 1:01:31.120 --> 1:01:33.200 very involved in the recording and all of it where 1:01:33.240 --> 1:01:35.800 there is no So the buck stops with with me 1:01:35.960 --> 1:01:39.240 and Benet. It has to it has to reach a 1:01:39.320 --> 1:01:42.680 certain level and hit a certain point in place where 1:01:42.760 --> 1:01:45.240 we can both go, that's great the way it is, 1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:49.040 and don't don't mess with that anymore. And so yes, 1:01:49.080 --> 1:01:51.120 the buck stops with the buck stops with the two 1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:52.840 of us. And I think that we're always on the 1:01:52.880 --> 1:01:55.040 same page that we've never really gotten in an argument 1:01:55.080 --> 1:01:57.320 about what about all the other stuff? When to go 1:01:57.440 --> 1:01:59.960 on tour with the artwork is and all that stuff, 1:02:00.840 --> 1:02:02.720 there's you know, well that's where the team that I've 1:02:02.760 --> 1:02:08.280 put in place comes in to play. Um like that, Okay, 1:02:08.400 --> 1:02:10.640 it's I know the friend who's the manager will not 1:02:11.360 --> 1:02:15.360 manage X, will only me A not manage bands because 1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:19.040 there's so many issues between the band. No, no, no, 1:02:19.160 --> 1:02:20.560 we don't have that. I know what you're saying, that 1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:24.080 we don't have that kind of um dynamic in our band. 1:02:24.120 --> 1:02:29.000 It's because when you sign a record deal, are all 1:02:29.120 --> 1:02:32.440 four band members on that deal are just you? No, 1:02:32.600 --> 1:02:37.960 it's just me, it's just you? Wait? Is it just me? Honestly, 1:02:38.040 --> 1:02:43.439 I don't even know and I should know that. Um, well, 1:02:43.760 --> 1:02:47.160 I'm the soul it's it's it's split because it's not me, 1:02:47.440 --> 1:02:50.040 it's not signed under Taylor Momson. So it's it's I 1:02:50.120 --> 1:02:54.320 am the owner of the Pretty Reckless. So the license 1:02:54.440 --> 1:02:57.120 the title that you know at the copyright, I own that. 1:02:57.320 --> 1:02:59.320 So that's you're signing the pretty Reckless, but I am 1:02:59.360 --> 1:03:03.160 the sole proprietor of the Pretty Reckless. Of that Okay. 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:08.600 So there's an advance or there are hypothetically royalties which 1:03:08.680 --> 1:03:15.840 never seemed to show up. Everybody get uh, we don't 1:03:15.960 --> 1:03:19.240 split it like that, but everyone does get equal shares 1:03:19.280 --> 1:03:21.480 at the end. But it's not But like with an 1:03:21.480 --> 1:03:23.960 advance or whatever, especially with license in the albums, it's 1:03:24.000 --> 1:03:26.360 not that's it's not that cut and drive like here's Europe, 1:03:26.360 --> 1:03:28.480 because it's not a three sixty major label deal, like 1:03:28.560 --> 1:03:30.200 here's your money and we'll take care of everything. The 1:03:30.280 --> 1:03:33.560 advance goes to making the art and goes back into 1:03:33.640 --> 1:03:38.560 the business. So it's the deals like that go into funding. 1:03:39.960 --> 1:03:43.360 But let's just assume you're in business and after ten 1:03:43.480 --> 1:03:45.400 years you have to be making some money otherwise you 1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:48.440 would stop, so you wouldn't be able to afford going 1:03:48.520 --> 1:03:50.520 on the road. So at the end of the day, 1:03:50.600 --> 1:03:53.400 if there's a hundred dollars, do you get fifty and 1:03:53.440 --> 1:03:56.680 the other three with the other forget publishing, totally different things. 1:03:59.080 --> 1:04:01.920 But on these men for the band, okay, do you 1:04:02.000 --> 1:04:09.000 split or is it split differently? It's a case by 1:04:09.080 --> 1:04:13.080 case basis. It's not. It's not across the board blanketed 1:04:13.680 --> 1:04:17.240 set a deal like that. It's it depends on the 1:04:17.280 --> 1:04:19.640 situation and where where the money is coming from and 1:04:19.960 --> 1:04:22.440 what it's for and where it's going, and like it's 1:04:22.520 --> 1:04:26.760 it's not. It's not as a standard deal. Like you 1:04:26.880 --> 1:04:31.280 go on the road, you perform, forget sponsorship for you know, 1:04:31.840 --> 1:04:34.840 just you're performing and it's merch. How is that split up? 1:04:36.120 --> 1:04:39.600 It's it's not split by percentages like that. It's it's 1:04:39.760 --> 1:04:42.840 it goes into the business and then whatever is left 1:04:42.880 --> 1:04:45.840 over is split. But if they get paid, they get 1:04:46.160 --> 1:04:48.600 I don't. I don't know this well enough to really 1:04:48.680 --> 1:04:51.280 discuss it properly. But they don't they get paid, and 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:56.640 I don't know, I don't know. It's one final question. 1:04:56.720 --> 1:04:59.920 But do they get paid a salary? Did you get 1:05:00.000 --> 1:05:04.560 eight a salary? But it's but it's a consistent Yes, 1:05:04.640 --> 1:05:07.960 they get paid a salary, yes, but but it's it's 1:05:08.120 --> 1:05:15.520 constantly changing based on the incomes of the organization. Okay, 1:05:15.960 --> 1:05:17.800 so other than the Beatles, what are a couple of 1:05:17.840 --> 1:05:23.040 your other go to factor something easier? Uh? Well, sound 1:05:23.040 --> 1:05:24.800 Garden is my other go to band, like my two 1:05:24.840 --> 1:05:27.040 favorite bands on the planet of the Beatles and Sound Guarden. 1:05:27.120 --> 1:05:30.840 So sound Garden is. But you were on the road. 1:05:31.400 --> 1:05:34.840 You were on the road with sound Garden. Yeah, when 1:05:35.000 --> 1:05:38.360 Chris Cornell committed suicide, What the hell was how'd you 1:05:38.440 --> 1:05:42.240 find out? It's well, that was the start of my demise. 1:05:42.360 --> 1:05:45.520 I guess um or my very downward spiral was the 1:05:45.560 --> 1:05:47.880 passing of him, because that was to be on tour 1:05:48.000 --> 1:05:49.920 with Sound Garden. When we got that phone call that 1:05:50.040 --> 1:05:53.240 we were going to open for them, my mind was blown, 1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:56.040 like I couldn't even I couldn't process. I was so 1:05:56.440 --> 1:06:01.000 happy I was. That was the pinnacle moment of my 1:06:01.120 --> 1:06:03.520 career that I could not believe we were opening for 1:06:03.600 --> 1:06:06.120 Sound Garden. Um, I felt like I was in a 1:06:06.200 --> 1:06:08.600 dream and and getting to play those shows with them 1:06:08.640 --> 1:06:10.600 and be on the road with them and getting to 1:06:10.680 --> 1:06:13.080 know them personally. It was just the whole experience was 1:06:13.200 --> 1:06:18.560 absolutely amazing and super surreal. And we played that last 1:06:18.560 --> 1:06:20.680 show with them in Detroit, and the next morning I 1:06:20.760 --> 1:06:23.000 woke up to the news and it just it was 1:06:23.080 --> 1:06:27.760 so shocking and so devastating. I couldn't wrap my mind 1:06:27.840 --> 1:06:31.200 around it. It crushed me in a way that I 1:06:31.400 --> 1:06:37.640 was not expecting or prepared for or could even understand. Um. 1:06:38.640 --> 1:06:40.040 And we were still you know, we were still in 1:06:40.080 --> 1:06:42.080 the middle of tour at that at that time, and 1:06:42.600 --> 1:06:44.920 I we played a few shows after that, but I 1:06:45.280 --> 1:06:48.240 quickly came to the realization and the and the point 1:06:48.280 --> 1:06:51.800 where I was like, I'm not in a good headspace 1:06:51.880 --> 1:06:53.880 to be on tour. I can't do this. I can't 1:06:53.880 --> 1:06:57.560 get on stage in fain excitement and happiness every night, 1:06:57.680 --> 1:06:59.480 Like this is just it's unfair to the fans, it's 1:06:59.520 --> 1:07:02.000 unfair to me. Like I need I need a break. 1:07:02.040 --> 1:07:05.080 I need some time to go home and grieve and 1:07:05.240 --> 1:07:09.280 be a person. Um and and and and I did. 1:07:09.360 --> 1:07:11.760 I canceled everything. I went home, and as soon as 1:07:11.800 --> 1:07:14.040 I started to kind of get my feedback on the 1:07:14.080 --> 1:07:19.680 ground and process the passing of Chris Um, I turned 1:07:19.800 --> 1:07:22.160 to music. I started writing. And that's because that's what 1:07:22.240 --> 1:07:24.080 I always do. It's this is where my mind goes. 1:07:24.160 --> 1:07:26.840 And I was calling Kato or producer going, I've got 1:07:26.960 --> 1:07:29.360 some songs we gotta get in the studio because it 1:07:29.440 --> 1:07:32.280 hit all of us extraordinarily hard. I mean, one of 1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:35.800 the reasons this band formed and why it's you know, 1:07:36.000 --> 1:07:39.479 has the members that it does is was our deep 1:07:39.720 --> 1:07:42.880 passionate love of sound garden Um. It was one of 1:07:42.960 --> 1:07:45.000 the things that we connected on right away. Did you 1:07:45.160 --> 1:07:49.360 play black hole soun on rock band? I didn't play 1:07:49.480 --> 1:07:53.480 rock bands, but I wasn't. No, I never played any 1:07:53.520 --> 1:07:55.800 of that. I played guitar. Was it was black hole 1:07:55.800 --> 1:07:57.760 son on on guitar? Hero or rock band? Was one 1:07:57.760 --> 1:08:04.440 of the famous songs from rock You're processing. Yes, I've 1:08:04.480 --> 1:08:07.920 written some songs and like we all of us were 1:08:07.960 --> 1:08:10.960 in this kind of depression and this funk from from 1:08:11.840 --> 1:08:14.200 Christ's passing, and when we got to get out of this, 1:08:14.920 --> 1:08:17.000 let's get in the studio, let's record. I don't know 1:08:17.080 --> 1:08:19.080 what these songs are for, but I've got some stuff 1:08:19.160 --> 1:08:21.880 like let's just move forward. We've got to try to 1:08:21.920 --> 1:08:24.240 get out of this. And as soon as we were 1:08:24.240 --> 1:08:26.160 starting to put those plans in motion, I got the 1:08:26.200 --> 1:08:28.639 phone called that Kato had died in a motorcycle accident 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:32.800 and that that was the just that was the nail 1:08:32.840 --> 1:08:35.400 in the coffin for me, that was that was the 1:08:35.560 --> 1:08:38.400 beginning of what I was sure was going to be 1:08:38.479 --> 1:08:41.599 the end. Like where I just I sunk so fast 1:08:42.439 --> 1:08:46.439 into this whole of depression and substance abuse and just 1:08:48.040 --> 1:08:52.479 this place of utter darkness and sadness that I couldn't 1:08:52.520 --> 1:08:54.920 get out of and I didn't see a way out of. 1:08:55.080 --> 1:08:57.920 And I just and I think the biggest problem was 1:08:58.000 --> 1:09:01.280 that I didn't care, Like I was very content being 1:09:03.160 --> 1:09:07.080 living there and and essentially fading into nothing, and and 1:09:07.240 --> 1:09:10.599 I just I saw that as that's where my life 1:09:10.720 --> 1:09:12.560 was going to go, and that's where I live, and 1:09:12.640 --> 1:09:15.519 that's where I die. And that was that. And it 1:09:15.640 --> 1:09:20.400 took you know years UM's, you know, writing this album 1:09:20.479 --> 1:09:22.640 and stuff of me trying to pull myself out of 1:09:22.720 --> 1:09:26.799 that hole. Because and that's why I say music saved 1:09:26.960 --> 1:09:30.519 my life and saves my life continually, is because I 1:09:30.680 --> 1:09:34.320 hit that point where I it was so lonely and 1:09:34.520 --> 1:09:37.720 so low that I needed music. I needed something. And 1:09:38.000 --> 1:09:40.880 you know, the drugs and the alcohol it wasn't filling. 1:09:41.920 --> 1:09:45.280 It wasn't even numbing that that whole anymore, wasn't numbing 1:09:45.360 --> 1:09:49.280 that pain. It was just exacerbating it and it and 1:09:49.400 --> 1:09:52.080 it didn't. I wasn't doing what I needed and it 1:09:52.200 --> 1:09:55.200 wasn't doing what I needed it too, um And so 1:09:55.360 --> 1:09:57.720 I turned to music and it and it was this 1:09:59.000 --> 1:10:01.760 essentially just really learned everything. I tried to kind of 1:10:01.840 --> 1:10:06.320 ask myself, like, what, like everything I love is dead, 1:10:06.560 --> 1:10:10.880 what's the point? And there had to have been a 1:10:10.960 --> 1:10:12.720 point to all of this. There had to have been, 1:10:12.800 --> 1:10:16.080 and that the point was always music. So I started 1:10:16.360 --> 1:10:19.280 I tried to I essentially regressed into being a child 1:10:19.439 --> 1:10:21.200 where I just I listened to the albums that I 1:10:21.280 --> 1:10:23.800 grew up loving and and tried to find my love 1:10:24.000 --> 1:10:28.920 of something. And from an innocent and organic perspective, I 1:10:28.960 --> 1:10:30.800 guess of of like you do when you're a child, 1:10:30.880 --> 1:10:32.840 when you just you don't even know why you love something, 1:10:32.880 --> 1:10:35.160 you just do. And that's what I did with music. 1:10:35.200 --> 1:10:39.080 I started to kind of listen to the starting with 1:10:39.160 --> 1:10:43.000 the Beatles records and just going through, um, all the 1:10:43.080 --> 1:10:46.320 albums I grew up loving and love to this day, 1:10:46.360 --> 1:10:48.639 and eventually getting to a place where I could listen 1:10:48.680 --> 1:10:52.480 to Sound Garden and have it bring me some happiness 1:10:52.600 --> 1:10:56.200 and not just immense pain and sadness and that was 1:10:56.280 --> 1:10:58.000 kind of a that was a turning point for me 1:10:58.080 --> 1:11:00.760 where I could listen to those records and and there 1:11:00.880 --> 1:11:04.439 was a spark there um and I started to feel 1:11:04.560 --> 1:11:06.800 like I used to a little bit, just a little 1:11:06.840 --> 1:11:11.639 bit moments, glimmering moments, and that that, you know, led 1:11:11.680 --> 1:11:15.280 to me picking up a guitar and and playing music. 1:11:15.479 --> 1:11:18.120 And because I was also all by myself, I didn't 1:11:18.280 --> 1:11:20.200 didn't have anything to do, and that's so I was. 1:11:20.760 --> 1:11:22.600 This was a long period of time, so I just 1:11:22.720 --> 1:11:26.080 I turned to music and playing guitar and singing songs 1:11:26.520 --> 1:11:28.640 by myself in my bedroom like I did when I 1:11:28.760 --> 1:11:32.559 was a kid. Brought back, you know, all those feelings 1:11:32.600 --> 1:11:35.880 that I felt when I was a child of writing music. 1:11:36.000 --> 1:11:39.840 And that's then then this album turned into this very 1:11:41.120 --> 1:11:46.360 free flowing form of expression where I just just once 1:11:46.400 --> 1:11:50.400 I kind of let myself, let my mind go there 1:11:50.680 --> 1:11:55.559 and and say out loud everything that I had been 1:11:55.600 --> 1:12:00.240 trying to shove down and repress. Um. The floodgates opened, 1:12:00.280 --> 1:12:03.160 and this album essentially just it kind of wrote itself. 1:12:03.280 --> 1:12:06.600 It was just this very pure form of inspiration that 1:12:07.680 --> 1:12:09.680 I said that it's it's it almost feels like the 1:12:09.760 --> 1:12:11.800 first album in that way where it's just this this 1:12:12.120 --> 1:12:16.719 uncontrollable source, Like you're always looking for the source of something, 1:12:16.800 --> 1:12:19.360 and in this case, it was like the universe of gone. 1:12:19.439 --> 1:12:21.879 You wanted something to write about, Taylor, here I smacked 1:12:21.880 --> 1:12:23.160 you in the face with it. What are you gonna 1:12:23.200 --> 1:12:27.200 do with it? And by that's how this album was 1:12:27.520 --> 1:12:30.400 was made and written and and by doing that and 1:12:30.479 --> 1:12:34.000 by letting it all out through songs and in songs, 1:12:34.200 --> 1:12:38.320 it it started to heal me and you know, heal 1:12:38.479 --> 1:12:41.760 my soul in a way that I desperately needed. And 1:12:41.880 --> 1:12:43.560 it was not overnight like when you know, you know, 1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:46.320 when I sum it up in this little, nice, nice 1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:48.479 little package, it sounds like it was easy. It was 1:12:48.560 --> 1:12:51.920 not easy. It was it took a very long time. 1:12:51.960 --> 1:12:53.160 But at the end of the day, That's why I 1:12:53.200 --> 1:12:54.560 say this album Death by Rock and Roll is a 1:12:54.640 --> 1:12:57.720 very hopeful record because it it kind of covers this 1:12:58.640 --> 1:13:01.880 spectrum of of everything that I was going through at 1:13:01.920 --> 1:13:06.880 the time and in this very real way, um and 1:13:07.120 --> 1:13:10.120 and it and there's no there was no hiding, there's 1:13:10.160 --> 1:13:12.000 no hiding from it. There was no I couldn't I 1:13:12.080 --> 1:13:14.759 couldn't fake it even if I wanted to. I passed 1:13:14.840 --> 1:13:17.639 that point where I was I was unable to fake 1:13:18.320 --> 1:13:21.040 living anymore, and so it just it. It came out 1:13:21.080 --> 1:13:23.599 in the music and that's what eventually got me back 1:13:23.680 --> 1:13:29.280 to a place of uh being here. I don't I 1:13:29.400 --> 1:13:31.439 just got very heavy with that and I don't know 1:13:31.560 --> 1:13:34.519 it entirely made sense. Yes it did. So what did 1:13:34.560 --> 1:13:39.880 it look like doing drinking and doing drugs? It looked 1:13:39.920 --> 1:13:41.800 like it looks like a train wreck. What do you 1:13:41.840 --> 1:13:43.320 think it looked like? It was something there are people 1:13:43.400 --> 1:13:46.160 say doing drugs. I smoked a lot of dope. Other 1:13:46.200 --> 1:13:49.200 people said I was it was injecting heroin. I mean 1:13:49.240 --> 1:13:53.320 there's different. So people who were drunk seven people will 1:13:53.360 --> 1:13:58.080 get wasted two times a week. Um. You know again, 1:13:58.120 --> 1:13:59.960 I think that that's something that I'm not quite read 1:14:00.000 --> 1:14:02.599 you to share with the world. It I'll just leave 1:14:02.640 --> 1:14:07.840 it it. It was. It was bad. That was very bad. Um, 1:14:08.479 --> 1:14:11.800 and I did hit. Uh. There was a moment where 1:14:11.880 --> 1:14:14.040 it was I had to make a conscious decision of 1:14:14.600 --> 1:14:17.200 this is gonna kill me or so his death or 1:14:17.240 --> 1:14:20.200 moved forward? Um, And there was a there was a 1:14:20.280 --> 1:14:23.519 defining moment of that. But that's that's something that I 1:14:24.120 --> 1:14:27.000 don't think I'm quite ready to talk about in depth, okay, 1:14:27.120 --> 1:14:31.479 But the defining moment was an internal or external. It 1:14:31.600 --> 1:14:38.000 was external and it was a very physical decision. Okay. 1:14:38.560 --> 1:14:42.840 And during this process, were you getting professional help? Mm hmm, 1:14:44.520 --> 1:14:48.479 not really. I mean I I had spoken to different therapists. 1:14:48.520 --> 1:14:53.280 I saw it help, um, but I hadn't found you know, 1:14:53.400 --> 1:14:56.040 I think therapy therapists it's such a challenge to find 1:14:56.080 --> 1:14:59.519 a therapist that works for you. And I was moving 1:14:59.600 --> 1:15:03.960 from the a therapist and never really found, um, the 1:15:04.080 --> 1:15:07.599 right person for me. If so that that was kind 1:15:07.600 --> 1:15:09.280 of a dead end for me, and not not for 1:15:09.439 --> 1:15:12.599 lack of trying. I think at the end of the day, 1:15:12.680 --> 1:15:16.240 I knew that it was outside help was you know, 1:15:16.320 --> 1:15:18.040 there's only so much that I was hade. Help can do, 1:15:18.240 --> 1:15:22.479 and then support from friends and family can do. I 1:15:22.680 --> 1:15:24.960 had to want to change, I had to want to 1:15:25.040 --> 1:15:29.160 make that choice to move on with life and continue 1:15:29.200 --> 1:15:33.160 to live and and and that's a hard decision to make. 1:15:33.280 --> 1:15:35.519 But if it had to come from me, it wasn't 1:15:35.520 --> 1:15:38.519 going to come from anyone else. Um. And I think 1:15:38.600 --> 1:15:40.880 that you know, it's like with anything like trying to 1:15:41.600 --> 1:15:45.080 motivate to exercise, Like you can have a trainer and 1:15:45.280 --> 1:15:47.000 all your friends tell you to do it, but at 1:15:47.040 --> 1:15:48.240 the end of the day, you have to get up 1:15:48.280 --> 1:15:50.599 and do it. And I think that that's I had 1:15:50.680 --> 1:15:54.080 to reach a point that hit hit something that that 1:15:54.240 --> 1:16:04.400 scared me enough to change, and I did. Ye you're 1:16:04.400 --> 1:16:09.200 talking about this defining moment. Uh, once you hit the 1:16:09.280 --> 1:16:12.840 other side of it, was it totally of course you 1:16:12.920 --> 1:16:14.559 had to have of your head in the right place. 1:16:15.280 --> 1:16:17.840 But was there a third party who called you every 1:16:17.920 --> 1:16:20.559 day or came by every day to aid you till 1:16:20.640 --> 1:16:23.280 you finally got traction? Or was it something you did 1:16:23.360 --> 1:16:29.400 solely yourself? Um? No, I had help. The band helped 1:16:29.439 --> 1:16:33.160 a lot um. You know. They they were relentless and 1:16:33.400 --> 1:16:36.720 checking out on me. Um and you know, making sure 1:16:36.760 --> 1:16:42.479 I was doing all right. Um not dead yet? Uh No, 1:16:42.680 --> 1:16:44.600 So I had, I had, I had help in in 1:16:44.720 --> 1:16:47.200 that sent in that regard where I had, I had 1:16:47.360 --> 1:16:50.599 very close people in my life that it cared about 1:16:50.680 --> 1:16:53.320 me um and that, you know, I'm very thankful for 1:16:53.400 --> 1:16:56.240 and very lucky to have, because not everyone has that, 1:16:56.479 --> 1:16:59.200 UM And so you know, I think that's that's kind 1:16:59.200 --> 1:17:04.000 of supports us them certainly does not. It's not unappreciated 1:17:04.360 --> 1:17:06.160 by any means, and I think that it is an 1:17:06.200 --> 1:17:08.000 immense help. But like I said, at the end of 1:17:08.000 --> 1:17:09.280 the day, if you want to change, it has to 1:17:09.360 --> 1:17:11.880 come from within you, like people yelling at you or 1:17:12.840 --> 1:17:16.400 telling you to trying to motivate you or whatever. You know, 1:17:16.600 --> 1:17:20.920 however that might look, um isn't going to be the 1:17:21.000 --> 1:17:22.240 thing that does it. At the end of the day, 1:17:22.240 --> 1:17:26.439 it's just encouragement. Okay. There's a famous book by William Styrone. 1:17:26.479 --> 1:17:30.479 The author called Darkness Visible about his time being depressed 1:17:30.520 --> 1:17:34.599 and ultimately even going into an institution, and he said 1:17:35.160 --> 1:17:38.120 he couldn't listen to music he was so bad. And 1:17:38.200 --> 1:17:40.800 I've certainly been in that space. But when he could 1:17:40.880 --> 1:17:43.000 listen to music, then he knew he was on the 1:17:43.200 --> 1:17:47.400 road to recovery. Was there any time it that the 1:17:47.479 --> 1:17:50.840 music didn't work before it did? That's exactly what happened. 1:17:50.840 --> 1:17:52.400 And I'm not familiar with this book, but now I 1:17:52.439 --> 1:17:54.840 want to read it. It's an easy book to read. 1:17:54.880 --> 1:17:57.040 You should definitely read. Yeah, no, I would love to. 1:17:57.320 --> 1:17:59.800 That's that's because that's verbatim what happened. When I was 1:18:00.080 --> 1:18:05.519 my lowest. There was no Everything brought sadness, especially music, 1:18:05.560 --> 1:18:09.040 because music with my whole life, and so anything I 1:18:09.160 --> 1:18:11.400 put on or listened to just brought back a painful 1:18:11.439 --> 1:18:14.840 memory or but I just hated it, or like it 1:18:14.960 --> 1:18:17.759 brought back so many had so many different emotions attached 1:18:17.800 --> 1:18:21.160 to it that none of which were good emotions. And 1:18:21.320 --> 1:18:24.960 and then and they would vary on a minutely basis. Um. 1:18:25.360 --> 1:18:27.240 But so I just I shut it out, like it 1:18:27.439 --> 1:18:31.519 was it brought back something that I couldn't deal with yet, 1:18:31.560 --> 1:18:33.760 and it just it was not pleasurable to me. And 1:18:33.840 --> 1:18:37.920 it was not creating comfort. It was creating pain and 1:18:38.200 --> 1:18:41.679 anger and anxiety and all you know, all the negative 1:18:41.720 --> 1:18:44.680 sides of the spectrum of the wheel of emotions and 1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:47.360 uh and so yeah, it was. There was a period 1:18:47.400 --> 1:18:49.400 where I couldn't listen to music at all, and I 1:18:49.479 --> 1:18:51.840 think that that was probably my darkest period because I 1:18:51.880 --> 1:18:54.240 had never gone in a day in my life without 1:18:54.280 --> 1:18:59.200 listening to music. It's just a part of my daily routine. Um. 1:19:00.120 --> 1:19:03.000 And I think that that's like you said when when 1:19:03.040 --> 1:19:07.200 you when I I hit a place where I found 1:19:07.280 --> 1:19:10.479 myself needing it. I needed music and I had been 1:19:10.560 --> 1:19:13.719 depriving myself of it almost unconsciously, though like I didn't 1:19:13.760 --> 1:19:15.880 It wasn't this conscious thing where I went, I'm not 1:19:15.920 --> 1:19:17.680 going to listen to music because it makes me feel bad. 1:19:17.760 --> 1:19:20.439 It was just like I just didn't do it. It 1:19:20.640 --> 1:19:22.679 just hurt and I didn't do it. And I finally 1:19:22.760 --> 1:19:25.599 hit a point where I I felt like I needed 1:19:25.720 --> 1:19:30.240 music like I need water and oxygen and it and 1:19:31.240 --> 1:19:35.200 I don't know, then this primal un there was no 1:19:35.360 --> 1:19:37.760 thought process to any of this. That just it just was. 1:19:37.920 --> 1:19:40.920 And that's where that that's where I kind of I 1:19:41.040 --> 1:19:42.960 started from the beginning again and I went, Okay, well, 1:19:43.000 --> 1:19:46.800 let's start with something easy to digest. Let's start with 1:19:46.840 --> 1:19:49.400 the Beatles, you know. And that's where it. That's where 1:19:49.439 --> 1:19:53.040 that kind of transitioning and introducing music back into my 1:19:53.200 --> 1:19:56.920 life through in the order of how I fell in 1:19:57.000 --> 1:19:59.479 love with it as a child, became this kind of 1:19:59.600 --> 1:20:02.320 very theory compeutic process to me. And and the end 1:20:02.360 --> 1:20:03.840 of that looked like being able to listen to the 1:20:03.880 --> 1:20:06.400 Sound Garden. And by the time I hit that point, 1:20:06.479 --> 1:20:09.160 that allowed me to then get to the next stage, 1:20:09.200 --> 1:20:12.439 which was playing music and writing music. And so that 1:20:12.720 --> 1:20:15.519 was so I think I noticed it as as I 1:20:15.680 --> 1:20:17.680 was listening to albums again that it was starting to 1:20:17.760 --> 1:20:21.040 help me in a way, But I don't think I 1:20:21.120 --> 1:20:24.679 really noticed any of it until I until I completed 1:20:24.720 --> 1:20:26.639 the album and then took a step back and went, oh, 1:20:27.160 --> 1:20:29.559 ship that was. That was a lot over the past 1:20:29.600 --> 1:20:32.519 few years. I don't even know what just happened, um 1:20:33.360 --> 1:20:35.600 because you can't see it when you're in it. But 1:20:35.760 --> 1:20:39.320 generally speaking, or your glass half empty, glass half full person, 1:20:40.920 --> 1:20:45.200 mm hmmm, I think it depends on the month. I 1:20:45.320 --> 1:20:51.640 don't after having having this terrific experience. Okay in the 1:20:51.760 --> 1:20:56.679 bathroom mind, I think you said, well, it could happen again. Yeah, 1:20:57.200 --> 1:20:58.880 in the back of my mind spoke could happen again. 1:20:58.920 --> 1:21:01.439 But I think be because of all of that. I think, 1:21:01.520 --> 1:21:04.880 because everything I went through and all that darkness, I 1:21:04.960 --> 1:21:08.760 am now probably more on the glass glass half full 1:21:08.840 --> 1:21:12.000 side of things in the sense that I I look 1:21:12.080 --> 1:21:15.679 at everything with a sense of it's not that important. 1:21:16.000 --> 1:21:18.640 Like you know, once the once death impacks you in 1:21:18.720 --> 1:21:22.000 a real way, it changes your perspective of everything else, 1:21:22.400 --> 1:21:25.920 and so anything goes wrong or anything that's bad now 1:21:26.080 --> 1:21:28.639 it's kind of like, well, it's not that bad. Um. 1:21:29.080 --> 1:21:31.400 So so if that's what my new motto is, just 1:21:31.520 --> 1:21:34.200 it's eway like is what it is? Man Like Oh, 1:21:34.240 --> 1:21:36.400 it's a bad show. That sucks. I'm pissed. I'm gonna 1:21:36.439 --> 1:21:39.839 fire everybody, you know whatever. But eway, there's another one tomorrow. 1:21:40.200 --> 1:21:42.120 Like it's that's how you have to That's how I 1:21:42.240 --> 1:21:45.800 kind of look at life now in in general and 1:21:46.160 --> 1:21:49.840 until something, you know, hopefully nothing that's serious will happen again, 1:21:49.880 --> 1:21:52.840 at least for not a lot time. But go back 1:21:52.880 --> 1:21:56.439 to Chris Cornell for a second. I unfortunately that friends 1:21:56.479 --> 1:22:00.599 have committed suicide, and I find the old only way 1:22:00.720 --> 1:22:04.280 to ultimately move far forward if you put it in 1:22:04.360 --> 1:22:07.880 a mental box, you come out with some reasoning of 1:22:07.960 --> 1:22:10.360 what you thought was going on there. So how did 1:22:10.400 --> 1:22:12.560 you do that with Chris? And what did that look like? 1:22:14.600 --> 1:22:19.320 That's a good question, I think, And to think about 1:22:19.360 --> 1:22:24.960 that for a minute. I don't. I don't. I don't know. 1:22:25.160 --> 1:22:27.519 I haven't. I haven't dissected that one. That's a very 1:22:27.560 --> 1:22:29.920 good question, Bob. I don't know that I have a 1:22:30.000 --> 1:22:32.400 good answer to that, because I don't. I don't think 1:22:32.439 --> 1:22:35.320 I've thought back on it like that in that way. 1:22:35.479 --> 1:22:42.080 I think that I think that once honestly, Chris passing 1:22:42.560 --> 1:22:46.439 was extraordinarily devastating and the start of a spiral for me. 1:22:47.160 --> 1:22:50.840 But so shortly after Chris, we lost Cato, and that 1:22:51.560 --> 1:22:54.160 that hit me in a in a way that like 1:22:54.240 --> 1:22:55.680 I thought, Chris hit me in a way that I 1:22:56.000 --> 1:22:58.840 didn't know, you know, hit me into the gut and 1:22:58.920 --> 1:23:00.920 the gut that I didn't know I had. And then 1:23:01.000 --> 1:23:04.880 but then with Kato passing, that was so so close 1:23:04.920 --> 1:23:08.160 to home. It's so personal and so you know, such 1:23:08.240 --> 1:23:10.200 a huge part of my life. It's such a huge 1:23:10.280 --> 1:23:13.800 part of my life that that overtook everything. And so 1:23:13.960 --> 1:23:16.519 I think that Chris, you know, became a part of 1:23:17.040 --> 1:23:22.559 this whole umbrella that was loss and death and grief 1:23:22.600 --> 1:23:24.640 and and and and it just it all kind of 1:23:24.720 --> 1:23:27.920 lumped together in this giant everything I love is dead. 1:23:28.040 --> 1:23:30.360 I don't see the point of life. And so it 1:23:30.720 --> 1:23:33.599 wasn't so specifically I didn't have the time to get over, 1:23:34.320 --> 1:23:35.880 not get over, but I didn't have the time to 1:23:36.600 --> 1:23:42.080 fully process and cart cart compartmentalized Chris's death because Kato's 1:23:42.080 --> 1:23:45.080 death happened so quickly after Chris' is so it all 1:23:45.200 --> 1:23:51.320 just became this one lump of hell. Not if that 1:23:51.600 --> 1:23:53.160 if that makes any sense. I don't mean to like 1:23:53.439 --> 1:23:57.000 belittle or or say they're not different, but it was 1:23:57.080 --> 1:24:00.680 so clear, were so quick next to you, so quickly, um, 1:24:01.040 --> 1:24:03.599 one after the other, that it was just this one 1:24:03.680 --> 1:24:07.120 to punch of pain and it all it all hurt. 1:24:07.400 --> 1:24:10.360 There was no going like, oh my arm hurts today 1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:13.040 and my leg hurts tomorrow. Is my whope, everything hurts 1:24:13.680 --> 1:24:16.960 all at once. Okay, let's go and do you go 1:24:17.040 --> 1:24:19.040 on the road now. And you've been on the road before. 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:22.920 Anybody who's been there knows. It is a man's world. 1:24:23.680 --> 1:24:27.840 There's an occasional woman in the crew, and it's a 1:24:27.920 --> 1:24:31.360 real down and dirty lifestyle. And men can really be 1:24:31.560 --> 1:24:35.639 down in dirty when it comes to clothing, hygiene, going 1:24:35.720 --> 1:24:39.600 out drinking. Are you one of the guys? Are you 1:24:39.760 --> 1:24:44.280 really separate? How do you interact? And I'm definitely one 1:24:44.320 --> 1:24:48.000 of the guys. Um, you know, I've aside from the 1:24:48.080 --> 1:24:52.400 fact that I have dresses. Uh, I'm one of the guys. 1:24:52.880 --> 1:24:56.560 I think. Um, we actually looked out quite or I 1:24:56.560 --> 1:25:00.280 don't know if we looked out, but we're a clean band. Um. 1:25:00.360 --> 1:25:03.080 We all appreciate hygiene in this group, so we never 1:25:03.160 --> 1:25:05.439 had to worry about that that kind of problem, um, 1:25:05.479 --> 1:25:08.120 which I think would have been my my biggest complaint. 1:25:08.200 --> 1:25:10.560 But no, as far as like traveling and touring and 1:25:10.720 --> 1:25:14.439 living and um just being together. It's it, we're all 1:25:14.920 --> 1:25:17.160 we're all very like minded. It's it's it's so just 1:25:17.320 --> 1:25:20.800 it's very easy. It's very it's one, you know, big 1:25:21.000 --> 1:25:24.120 family for even as cliche as that sounds, it really is. 1:25:24.240 --> 1:25:27.679 And I think that, you know, just the longer every 1:25:27.800 --> 1:25:30.040 year that goes by, the closer our bondas and the 1:25:30.280 --> 1:25:33.640 and the the easier everything gets. And it's just it's 1:25:33.720 --> 1:25:35.720 it's only gotten easier as time has gone on, which 1:25:35.760 --> 1:25:39.040 I think probably isn't the case for every band. Okay, 1:25:39.120 --> 1:25:41.759 so you talked about this hole you're win with drugs 1:25:41.800 --> 1:25:44.840 and alcohol. Are you sober or do you still drink something? 1:25:45.960 --> 1:25:50.160 I'm mostly sober, Um, I'm I never got into you know, 1:25:50.360 --> 1:25:54.840 the programs um that just to teach their own um. 1:25:55.000 --> 1:26:02.000 But I and I mean I occasionally all occasionally. First 1:26:02.080 --> 1:26:05.240 I smoked weed, Um, so I smoked lots of weed. 1:26:05.640 --> 1:26:08.479 But but no, I don't. I'm I'm mostly sober, like 1:26:09.560 --> 1:26:12.000 very Okay, So you don't. I haven't had a drink 1:26:12.040 --> 1:26:14.320 in two years. Okay, so a year and a half 1:26:14.439 --> 1:26:16.519 or whatever. Well let's talk a little bit before that, 1:26:16.680 --> 1:26:19.719 before all these tragedies. You play a gig, you're staying 1:26:19.720 --> 1:26:21.840 in a hotel. One of the band members says, I'm 1:26:21.880 --> 1:26:23.880 gonna go hang out at the bar. Are you gonna 1:26:23.920 --> 1:26:28.519 go hang out at the bar? Oh? It's first of all, 1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:31.120 the party. It's a really fun party until the party 1:26:31.160 --> 1:26:34.720 takes its toll. You know, there's there's your way to 1:26:34.720 --> 1:26:36.760 say it. Oh yeah, No, it was a blast in 1:26:36.760 --> 1:26:39.280 the beginning, but you know, like anything, and it turns 1:26:39.320 --> 1:26:44.920 on you. Okay, needless to say. Uh. Prior to cell 1:26:45.000 --> 1:26:48.680 phone cameras, a lot of guys got into rock and 1:26:48.880 --> 1:26:54.320 roll for the sexual opportunities, and they are legion. What's 1:26:54.360 --> 1:26:59.800 your experience being on the road. Um, well, that's not 1:27:00.000 --> 1:27:03.560 why I got into it, so it's probably different, you know, 1:27:03.680 --> 1:27:09.479 different priorities. Um, I mean it's I don't know, it's 1:27:09.520 --> 1:27:14.400 been pretty It's very isolated in one way, like touring is. 1:27:14.479 --> 1:27:17.160 It's it's so his bubble and we're so focused on 1:27:17.240 --> 1:27:23.960 the show itself that um hm, it's not like that. 1:27:24.080 --> 1:27:26.680 I mean, I don't like do I don't ask a 1:27:26.760 --> 1:27:29.439 more specific question because I don't really know you have 1:27:29.520 --> 1:27:34.839 a boyfriend or a girlfriend. Um, I'll leave you a guessing. 1:27:35.680 --> 1:27:39.320 I don't know one, but let me ask generally, I 1:27:39.400 --> 1:27:42.240 just don't like to looking for gossip here. Are you 1:27:42.479 --> 1:27:45.320 someone who tends to go from a relationship to relationship 1:27:45.760 --> 1:27:48.200 or someone who tends not to have a relationship, or 1:27:48.240 --> 1:27:53.360 someone who has long spells in between? Um, I'm either No, 1:27:53.479 --> 1:27:56.120 I'm certainly not a relationship to relationship person. I'm not 1:27:56.400 --> 1:27:58.839 like I don't jump around. I'm a I'm a loyalist. 1:27:58.880 --> 1:28:01.559 I'm a loyal person heart um, loyal with the people 1:28:01.600 --> 1:28:03.880 I work with them, loyal with my personal relationships and 1:28:04.040 --> 1:28:07.320 nuts um because I find you know, when you find 1:28:07.360 --> 1:28:10.240 someone you can trust and truly be yourself around in 1:28:10.280 --> 1:28:13.880 any capacity, whether that's romantic or business, you hang onto 1:28:13.960 --> 1:28:16.920 that for dear life. So that's that's kind of how 1:28:16.960 --> 1:28:20.000 I've always lived my life with very few people in 1:28:20.120 --> 1:28:24.800 my life, but very close people. So what's more sexist 1:28:25.040 --> 1:28:31.320 rock and roll or the TV business? Oh? Interesting question. 1:28:37.280 --> 1:28:39.880 I don't know, they're probably like probably equal. I think 1:28:39.920 --> 1:28:44.600 it depends on what you're talking about specifically. I mean, like, 1:28:44.680 --> 1:28:47.360 there's there's definitely more women on television than there are 1:28:47.439 --> 1:28:49.080 in rock and roll, But I don't know that that's 1:28:50.040 --> 1:28:52.080 is that sexism or is that just that there's less 1:28:52.080 --> 1:28:53.600 women in rock and roll because if you look at 1:28:53.640 --> 1:28:55.880 the pop charts, it's all women. So I don't you 1:28:55.920 --> 1:28:58.560 know women in music or I think I think the 1:28:58.680 --> 1:29:00.880 sexism side of you if you listen to like Joan 1:29:01.000 --> 1:29:03.320 Jet or someone who's um, you know, been doing this 1:29:03.439 --> 1:29:06.080 for a very long time. I think that the the 1:29:06.200 --> 1:29:10.519 sexist side of things has certainly changed over time. Like 1:29:10.600 --> 1:29:14.360 I've never felt I've I've felt moments of sexism in 1:29:15.240 --> 1:29:17.920 in music, but not to the degree that I think, 1:29:18.600 --> 1:29:20.479 you know, women like Joan and stuff had to deal 1:29:20.560 --> 1:29:25.559 with UM. It's much more I don't want to say inclusive. 1:29:25.560 --> 1:29:27.280 But I also just I don't look at it like that, 1:29:27.400 --> 1:29:31.000 Like I don't see myself as a a chicken a band. 1:29:31.080 --> 1:29:33.640 I see myself as like I'm a I do what 1:29:33.880 --> 1:29:36.040 you do. I see my as what all the guys do. 1:29:36.160 --> 1:29:38.680 I don't see I don't see gender like that. And 1:29:38.760 --> 1:29:41.240 you know, and I don't. All of my idols have 1:29:41.320 --> 1:29:43.320 always been men, and it's not because they're men. It's 1:29:43.320 --> 1:29:45.960 because I love their records, you know. It's it's not 1:29:46.439 --> 1:29:49.120 so I've never looked at genders this kind of divide, 1:29:49.200 --> 1:29:51.320 And maybe that's naive of me. But I just see 1:29:51.360 --> 1:29:53.280 it as the best songs, the best song with the 1:29:53.320 --> 1:29:55.600 best artis of the best artist. I want to be 1:29:55.760 --> 1:29:57.560 like them. I want to be like that. And so 1:29:57.720 --> 1:30:01.920 I don't. I don't like to put the and only 1:30:02.040 --> 1:30:04.360 to focus on that. And and so because I think 1:30:04.439 --> 1:30:06.840 I don't focus on it, maybe I don't even notice 1:30:06.880 --> 1:30:09.800 it when it's happening, if that makes sense. That makes sense. 1:30:09.880 --> 1:30:12.000 But let's broaden it a little bit, just more of 1:30:12.040 --> 1:30:16.200 a me too thing. Uh. Any woman, never mind, a 1:30:16.720 --> 1:30:20.599 very attractive woman like yourself, has men hitting on them 1:30:20.760 --> 1:30:25.320 all the time. Okay, and if you have a profile 1:30:25.800 --> 1:30:29.800 first on a TV show, in a band, okay, that 1:30:30.080 --> 1:30:36.479 is amplified. So almost everybody in those walks of life 1:30:36.880 --> 1:30:39.920 has me two stories? Do you have? Me? Two stories? 1:30:41.840 --> 1:30:47.880 I have? I have? I have uncouth and un Yeah, 1:30:48.000 --> 1:30:51.519 I have uncouth encounters with with men, um of course. 1:30:51.720 --> 1:30:54.479 But I also think that every it's unfortunate and it's 1:30:54.560 --> 1:30:56.920 very sad. But I think that any woman of a 1:30:57.000 --> 1:31:02.960 certain age has been very uncomfortable sexual situations and at 1:31:03.040 --> 1:31:06.840 some point in their life. Um, probably most people have. Honestly, UM, 1:31:06.960 --> 1:31:09.200 So I don't I again, I don't want to get 1:31:09.200 --> 1:31:11.840 too into that. But of course, of course I've had 1:31:12.080 --> 1:31:15.599 uncomfortable situations that you know, in inappropriate situations of things 1:31:15.680 --> 1:31:18.120 that shouldn't have happened the way that they did. But 1:31:18.320 --> 1:31:20.680 on as far as the like getting hit on and things, 1:31:20.720 --> 1:31:22.640 I actually find it funny. I don't get hit on 1:31:22.800 --> 1:31:24.600 very much at all, and I don't I don't know 1:31:24.720 --> 1:31:26.400 if that's I think a part of that is because 1:31:26.400 --> 1:31:30.200 I built this, like there's this protection around. I roll 1:31:30.280 --> 1:31:33.439 around with four giant men with me all the time. 1:31:33.479 --> 1:31:36.720 That's very intimidating, Like I have this force with by 1:31:36.800 --> 1:31:38.800 being in a band of this of this crew of 1:31:38.920 --> 1:31:40.720 people that I roll with all the time. So I'm 1:31:40.760 --> 1:31:46.320 never I'm very protected in in this. Um. I don't 1:31:46.320 --> 1:31:49.200 know what we're kind of imposing. I guess when we 1:31:49.320 --> 1:31:51.599 were a force when we when we walk in together, 1:31:51.640 --> 1:31:54.639 and I'm never really boy myself, so um it would 1:31:54.680 --> 1:31:57.760 be so I just I don't think I experienced that 1:31:57.880 --> 1:32:01.640 in the same way that maybe some people do. Thought, well, 1:32:01.680 --> 1:32:04.920 what about everyday life. You're in New York City. I'm 1:32:04.960 --> 1:32:07.640 in New York, but I'm I don't know, like I 1:32:07.760 --> 1:32:09.519 love New York because it's you're in the middle of 1:32:09.720 --> 1:32:12.960 a billion people, but you can also completely hide. Um 1:32:13.320 --> 1:32:15.320 you know, it's in New York can be whatever you 1:32:15.400 --> 1:32:18.400 wanted to be based on the minute. And that's why 1:32:18.479 --> 1:32:20.240 I think it's so amazing that you can walk, you know, 1:32:20.360 --> 1:32:22.840 one corner and walk one block and you're in the 1:32:22.920 --> 1:32:24.720 heart of it all and turn another corner and you're 1:32:24.720 --> 1:32:26.760 in the middle of nowhere. And I think that that's 1:32:26.800 --> 1:32:28.560 so cool. And so it's it's very easy for me 1:32:28.640 --> 1:32:32.919 to kind of hide and and live very normal normally 1:32:33.120 --> 1:32:36.559 in in New York. And I don't know, especially with COVID, 1:32:36.600 --> 1:32:38.400 I don't go out, I don't do anything. I'm a 1:32:38.479 --> 1:32:43.120 homebody and very boring. Um so I'm yeah, it's I 1:32:43.400 --> 1:32:45.439 go for long walks and you know, who are you 1:32:45.520 --> 1:32:49.240 meeting on a walk? Would you ever say to yourself, Oh, 1:32:49.520 --> 1:32:52.080 you know, I need food, but I'm not gonna go 1:32:52.200 --> 1:32:53.920 to the market at this hour because I'm gonna have 1:32:53.960 --> 1:32:56.360 to deal with the public there and people gonna you know, 1:32:56.840 --> 1:32:59.479 try to hit on me or talk to me or whatever. 1:33:00.280 --> 1:33:03.759 Um yeah, I mean, not the market. But there's certain 1:33:03.880 --> 1:33:05.439 areas in New York, like if you don't want to 1:33:05.479 --> 1:33:07.519 be photographed or you don't want to be bothered by 1:33:07.840 --> 1:33:11.600 you know, paparazzi or ebayers or people like that, or 1:33:12.120 --> 1:33:14.320 people who might notice you you don't go to soho 1:33:14.479 --> 1:33:17.000 on a Saturday, like you know, there's there's areas where 1:33:17.080 --> 1:33:21.040 you just you know, to avoid um. So, yes, there's 1:33:21.080 --> 1:33:23.960 there's certainly times when you when you think that to yourself. 1:33:24.000 --> 1:33:26.000 But as far as just like going to the grocery store, like, 1:33:26.320 --> 1:33:28.200 I'm just a person will go to the grocery store. 1:33:28.200 --> 1:33:31.760 I'm not that I'm not that fussy. Okay, how about 1:33:31.840 --> 1:33:33.920 if you leave the house. You know, I was at 1:33:33.960 --> 1:33:39.040 a private situation with a household name and who came 1:33:39.479 --> 1:33:41.760 looking like she just walked out of, you know, a 1:33:41.840 --> 1:33:45.200 movie set. And I said, this is a sentence. She's 1:33:45.240 --> 1:33:47.360 known as a beauty. She has to leave her house 1:33:47.479 --> 1:33:50.880 every day and make herself up by the same token. 1:33:50.880 --> 1:33:53.439 I have another friend who was on television, went to 1:33:53.520 --> 1:33:55.880 pick up food and somebody came up to said, aren't 1:33:55.880 --> 1:33:58.960 you so and so said yeah, he said the person said, 1:33:58.960 --> 1:34:03.200 you look like shit. So do you feel that pressure? God, 1:34:03.280 --> 1:34:05.400 if I'm leaving the house, I gotta put my look on. 1:34:06.640 --> 1:34:10.040 I certainly did when I was on television, when I 1:34:10.120 --> 1:34:12.120 was on Gossip girl. I felt like I could. I 1:34:12.560 --> 1:34:14.600 hated leaving I didn't leave the house with makeup. I 1:34:14.640 --> 1:34:17.400 always had an output, an outfit together. Part of that, 1:34:17.520 --> 1:34:20.200 I think was that I was young and I actually 1:34:20.240 --> 1:34:24.200 really enjoyed expressing myself through fashion and makeup and things 1:34:24.280 --> 1:34:27.840 like that from the visual standpoint. Um. But also I 1:34:27.920 --> 1:34:29.560 knew it as my picture was gonna be taken and 1:34:29.600 --> 1:34:31.760 when I walked outside, So who wants to look like 1:34:31.800 --> 1:34:35.120 shit and photos? Um? But I think as I've gotten older, 1:34:35.200 --> 1:34:38.360 I've become much more relaxed in general about image and 1:34:39.120 --> 1:34:42.519 how I'm perceived and walking around New York and stuff. 1:34:42.560 --> 1:34:46.080 I don't I don't care, I don't like. I mean again, 1:34:46.120 --> 1:34:47.680 like I'm not going to go to one of the 1:34:47.840 --> 1:34:50.679 areas of New York that there's always paparazzi hanging around 1:34:50.720 --> 1:34:53.160 looking like crap, just because why would you do that 1:34:53.280 --> 1:34:55.360 to yourself? But just like leaving my house in the 1:34:55.560 --> 1:34:59.639 in the daytime, like I'll leave the house and looking 1:35:00.040 --> 1:35:04.840 quite normal and very average. Okay, So if you're a homebody, 1:35:05.280 --> 1:35:09.880 how you spending the time? You're watching television? You're reading books? Yeah? 1:35:09.960 --> 1:35:13.040 Watching tv? I mean we uh, we haven't been home 1:35:13.080 --> 1:35:15.320 from tour. Too long. So it's I'm actually just kind 1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:17.439 of I've got a lot of errands and chores and 1:35:17.479 --> 1:35:19.320 things that we're getting ready to leave again here soon. 1:35:19.439 --> 1:35:22.200 So it's a lot of like unpacking and repacking and 1:35:23.040 --> 1:35:27.519 things like that. Um, but yeah, I watched television playing music. Um. 1:35:28.560 --> 1:35:30.320 I walk a lot. That's the other thing I do 1:35:30.400 --> 1:35:33.280 in New York. I go for a mile long walks 1:35:33.320 --> 1:35:37.160 every day and just um people watch and and enjoy 1:35:37.280 --> 1:35:40.320 the city and the the energy that is that is 1:35:40.400 --> 1:35:42.559 New York. That there. You know, I've literally been around 1:35:42.560 --> 1:35:45.559 the world and there's no other place that even comes 1:35:45.640 --> 1:35:47.519 close to it. Like I love New York so much. 1:35:47.600 --> 1:35:51.200 It's so special and so different and so exciting and 1:35:51.360 --> 1:35:56.160 so it's it's the best. And so I'm never bored 1:35:56.240 --> 1:35:58.320 in the city because you can even if you're doing 1:35:58.439 --> 1:36:00.880 absolutely nothing, just all you have to do is walk 1:36:00.920 --> 1:36:05.559 outside and you you're watching a movie. Like is true. 1:36:05.640 --> 1:36:07.080 But you know, living in I grew up in the 1:36:07.120 --> 1:36:09.880 East Coast, fifty miles from New York City. But you know, 1:36:10.120 --> 1:36:13.000 the East New Yorker comes to l a looks around us. 1:36:13.040 --> 1:36:15.599 I don't get it. You know, you gotta use your car. 1:36:15.680 --> 1:36:18.600 There's not this that New York City greatest city in 1:36:18.640 --> 1:36:23.240 the world. In the world, buddy, Angelina would say, New 1:36:23.320 --> 1:36:25.800 York City, greatest city in the world, but I'd rather 1:36:25.880 --> 1:36:29.400 live in Los Angeles. Well, see, that's where I was 1:36:29.479 --> 1:36:32.439 talking to Margaret before we started talking, and then I 1:36:32.560 --> 1:36:36.200 was saying, Los Angeles is like that. I've all pretty 1:36:36.280 --> 1:36:37.720 much all of my friends who used to live in 1:36:37.760 --> 1:36:40.000 New York now live in l A. And they love it, 1:36:40.080 --> 1:36:42.200 and they're constantly trying to convince me to move there. 1:36:42.240 --> 1:36:45.200 They're going, you're crazy, you're missing out. It's beautiful, the weather. 1:36:45.479 --> 1:36:47.519 And I go to Los Angeles. I stay there for 1:36:47.560 --> 1:36:49.959 about a week. The first week, I'm going, this is amazing. 1:36:50.280 --> 1:36:52.519 It's sunny every day. I know exactly. I don't need 1:36:52.600 --> 1:36:56.200 to wear a jacket. I gotta it's awesome. The energy, 1:36:56.360 --> 1:37:00.360 the vibe that's so positive and great. After about two weeks, 1:37:00.800 --> 1:37:03.360 I'm so done and so ready to be Like for 1:37:03.400 --> 1:37:05.479 the first two weeks, I'm ready to move there. By 1:37:05.520 --> 1:37:07.479 the time third week comes around, I'm like, if you 1:37:07.520 --> 1:37:09.280 don't get me back to New York City, I'm gonna 1:37:09.280 --> 1:37:12.719 go absolutely crazy. I need the grit. I need the grime, 1:37:12.840 --> 1:37:14.439 I need the I don't want to feel like I 1:37:14.479 --> 1:37:17.280 have to wipe my feet when I walk outside to 1:37:17.320 --> 1:37:19.479 make sure my shoes are clean for your sidewalks, like 1:37:19.920 --> 1:37:22.439 I want, you know what I mean? I don't know. 1:37:22.479 --> 1:37:25.160 There's just something about New York that I can't I'm 1:37:25.439 --> 1:37:26.920 I fell in love with it when I was young, 1:37:27.000 --> 1:37:28.800 and I just don't think i'll ever look I feel 1:37:29.040 --> 1:37:31.160 about New York exactly about you know, you go to 1:37:31.160 --> 1:37:32.960 the East Coast. God, why am I living in l 1:37:33.040 --> 1:37:35.320 A blah blah blah. But after a period of time, 1:37:35.600 --> 1:37:38.800 I can't wait to get back to l A. I 1:37:38.880 --> 1:37:42.920 get it. Maybe one day, maybe one day, Los Angeles 1:37:42.960 --> 1:37:45.320 will become my new home, but not yet. I also, 1:37:45.479 --> 1:37:48.439 after spending five years in Maine um in the complete 1:37:48.439 --> 1:37:52.439 and utter isolation, I think the the mayhem of New 1:37:52.520 --> 1:37:57.680 York City is very refreshing. I was New York only 1:37:57.760 --> 1:38:00.719 works if you can get out. Mhm. If you're an artist, 1:38:00.720 --> 1:38:03.000 you don't have that much money, you're there seven week 1:38:03.080 --> 1:38:06.760 after week, it becomes oppressive. Yeah, it certainly can if 1:38:06.800 --> 1:38:09.840 you can get to Maine whatever. Okay, so whish. On 1:38:09.960 --> 1:38:12.120 the other side, if you're spenting twenty hours a day, 1:38:12.120 --> 1:38:14.599 I would see I would say. The opposite is spending 1:38:14.600 --> 1:38:17.400 twenty hours a day in Maine became extraordinarily oppressive. Where 1:38:17.479 --> 1:38:19.640 it was, it was torturous to be that one of 1:38:19.680 --> 1:38:22.479 the few people's lived in the country. Now, granted I 1:38:22.600 --> 1:38:26.360 lived in the country prior to Amazon, the Internet, I 1:38:26.400 --> 1:38:29.840 mean FedEx, so you're living in the boonies. And then 1:38:30.040 --> 1:38:32.080 the other thing I don't like about living in the countries, 1:38:32.160 --> 1:38:36.800 everybody knows your name. I like the anonymity. Everybody you 1:38:36.840 --> 1:38:38.880 don't know who I am. You don't know what I'm 1:38:38.960 --> 1:38:42.080 up to. It's really you know, and you don't have 1:38:42.160 --> 1:38:44.200 to say hi to the same person without talking to 1:38:44.320 --> 1:38:47.840 him for twenty years. There's no small talk in the city. 1:38:47.880 --> 1:38:51.920 It's the best, right right, Yeah. On the New York place, 1:38:52.000 --> 1:38:56.000 it's oh yeah, good to see you. Okay, bye. So 1:38:56.240 --> 1:38:59.840 you're in New York. Are your parents still in St. Louis? No, No, 1:39:00.160 --> 1:39:03.880 my family we moved to uh we moved from St. 1:39:03.920 --> 1:39:07.840 Louis when I was nine or ten ten um to 1:39:07.960 --> 1:39:11.920 Maryland because my dad switched companies or jobs, and so 1:39:12.240 --> 1:39:14.479 I lived in Maryland. Because my family still in Maryland, 1:39:15.200 --> 1:39:19.200 I have to make that I don't know what what 1:39:19.280 --> 1:39:25.040 does your she well she's very private and we'll let 1:39:25.080 --> 1:39:29.240 me talk about her. Um, but she is doing Wait, 1:39:29.320 --> 1:39:32.160 she she went to college. She's very smart, she's very 1:39:32.600 --> 1:39:37.600 uh driven, she's very beautiful and sweet and wonderful, and 1:39:37.840 --> 1:39:41.639 she's uh, she's currently in living life and figuring out 1:39:41.680 --> 1:39:43.479 what she wants to do with it. Um but I 1:39:44.080 --> 1:39:46.280 but she will literally kill me if I say anything 1:39:46.360 --> 1:39:48.960 more than that. But she's doing great and she's on 1:39:49.080 --> 1:39:51.880 her Okay. So, someone who spent all that time with 1:39:52.040 --> 1:39:55.760 your mother and absent from your father, what's your relationship 1:39:55.840 --> 1:40:00.439 with your parents now, both in quality and frequency. Um. 1:40:01.000 --> 1:40:04.320 I don't see my family very often. Um, you know, 1:40:04.439 --> 1:40:07.559 we have kind of a texting relationship. I guess. Uh, 1:40:09.080 --> 1:40:12.200 they you know, have always been very supportive of what 1:40:12.320 --> 1:40:15.120 I do. But I think that are you know, as I, 1:40:15.439 --> 1:40:18.760 as I got older and kind of moved into my 1:40:18.840 --> 1:40:24.480 own world of creation, Um, that they weren't really integral 1:40:24.600 --> 1:40:27.160 in and a part of you know, we certainly drifted apart. 1:40:27.400 --> 1:40:30.240 And so you know, I think our relationship is it's 1:40:30.280 --> 1:40:32.840 all right, it's good, you know, it's it's fine, but 1:40:33.000 --> 1:40:45.840 it's it's not super involved. You've had this career other 1:40:45.920 --> 1:40:48.479 than Jared Leto and you may have more number ones. 1:40:48.960 --> 1:40:51.600 You're the only person who really made success of the 1:40:51.720 --> 1:40:55.920 last couple of decades was first on television, So you've 1:40:56.000 --> 1:40:58.840 proved it. Yeah, staying party of that success. What do 1:40:58.920 --> 1:41:02.800 you want now? Oh man, that's a really good question. 1:41:02.840 --> 1:41:05.880 I should probably think about that more often. Uh, you 1:41:06.000 --> 1:41:10.320 know what I want now? Um? I want to have 1:41:10.439 --> 1:41:13.800 a good time all the time. That's what I want. 1:41:15.320 --> 1:41:17.559 So that's that affairs. I want a good time all 1:41:17.640 --> 1:41:21.000 the time. UM. I used to say the same thing 1:41:21.040 --> 1:41:23.559 in my life at one point. I feel like it's 1:41:23.640 --> 1:41:27.960 usually after the traumas hard. It's been some hard years 1:41:28.000 --> 1:41:30.439 and I just want things to be easy and fun 1:41:30.720 --> 1:41:33.800 and good and I want to have a good time, um, 1:41:34.080 --> 1:41:36.000 which is why I and I mean that. And I'm 1:41:36.080 --> 1:41:38.640 looking forward to the next couple of months because the 1:41:38.760 --> 1:41:41.160 touring is a good time and I hope it remains 1:41:41.200 --> 1:41:44.040 a good time before it's it's We're very excited to 1:41:44.080 --> 1:41:46.519 get back out on the road and go to Europe again. 1:41:46.560 --> 1:41:48.720 We haven't been to Europe and years and we're doing 1:41:48.760 --> 1:41:52.080 that in October. And finally we're starting to transition into 1:41:52.720 --> 1:41:55.160 becoming an arena band. We're playing our headlining our first 1:41:55.200 --> 1:41:58.000 arenas in Europe, which is very exciting. So just I 1:41:58.040 --> 1:42:00.439 just want everything to keep kind of growing and aggressing 1:42:00.520 --> 1:42:05.160 and and moving forward in a in a positive good way. 1:42:05.360 --> 1:42:07.840 And I and then I want to get back in 1:42:07.920 --> 1:42:09.600 the studio and I want to make more music. I 1:42:09.640 --> 1:42:12.880 want to make another record, and I want to, you know, 1:42:13.040 --> 1:42:16.680 kind of not close this chapter, but um, you know, 1:42:16.760 --> 1:42:18.680 but take a step forward from it, and I think 1:42:18.760 --> 1:42:22.120 and and and just see where life's gonna take me. 1:42:22.240 --> 1:42:24.280 I don't I mean, I don't. I don't know. I haven't. 1:42:24.320 --> 1:42:27.280 I don't have it all planned out. But um but 1:42:27.400 --> 1:42:30.000 I would like to continue to make music, and I 1:42:30.040 --> 1:42:32.519 would like to continue to better myself as an as 1:42:32.560 --> 1:42:35.439 an artist and as a person and and do that 1:42:35.600 --> 1:42:40.360 on a you know, minutely and daily basis. What do 1:42:40.439 --> 1:42:42.799 you think about the game, Because a lot of artists, 1:42:43.000 --> 1:42:47.600 especially in rock, bitch about the game, the streaming, Spotify, 1:42:47.800 --> 1:42:54.720 the playlist, the payments, the radio. But um, well, I 1:42:54.800 --> 1:42:58.559 read your letters on it all the time. I think 1:42:58.720 --> 1:43:03.960 that I think that I haven't gotten to involved in it. 1:43:04.120 --> 1:43:07.280 And that might sound stupid, but I think that I 1:43:07.400 --> 1:43:11.720 just try to. I think that I think that you've 1:43:11.760 --> 1:43:13.920 got to make I don't know what I think. I 1:43:13.960 --> 1:43:15.599 don't think. I don't think I'm smart enough to talk 1:43:15.600 --> 1:43:18.600 about this one to you. That's what I think. I 1:43:18.680 --> 1:43:20.719 think that I don't know enough, even though I should 1:43:20.720 --> 1:43:22.559 because I've been doing this a long time. I don't 1:43:22.560 --> 1:43:27.000 think I know enough to speak in a in a 1:43:27.120 --> 1:43:30.800 in a conversation. But is it something that bothers you? 1:43:34.760 --> 1:43:37.040 Yes and no, But I don't know that it bothers 1:43:37.120 --> 1:43:41.920 me on a on a specifically, I bought streaming. Is 1:43:41.960 --> 1:43:44.280 this weird thing? I have this love hate relationship with 1:43:44.360 --> 1:43:46.680 streaming where, you know, in one way, I think it's 1:43:46.800 --> 1:43:50.880 wonderful that everyone has immediate access to here music and 1:43:51.200 --> 1:43:54.800 you know, I you streaming. I listened to it. I'm guilty, um, 1:43:55.080 --> 1:43:58.160 you know, because it's so accessible, it's right there, um. 1:43:58.240 --> 1:44:00.280 And I think that that's wonderful because music should be 1:44:00.320 --> 1:44:03.560 shared and appreciated and listened to at nauseam. On the 1:44:03.680 --> 1:44:06.479 other hand, I am, you know, call me old school. 1:44:06.520 --> 1:44:09.200 I really appreciate the album, and I you know, that's 1:44:09.240 --> 1:44:10.960 what I grew up with. That's what I love where 1:44:11.000 --> 1:44:13.679 you really kind of delve into the art in this deeper, 1:44:14.360 --> 1:44:17.000 more meaningful way when you listen to records and it's 1:44:17.080 --> 1:44:19.960 and it's not this fleeting, quick little thing. It's it's 1:44:20.000 --> 1:44:24.639 something that's important and it has value um past past 1:44:24.720 --> 1:44:26.880 just a fiscal value, but like it has it has 1:44:26.880 --> 1:44:29.439 actual value, has physical weight when you're holding your hands. 1:44:29.479 --> 1:44:32.960 It has importance and and it's you know, it's it's 1:44:33.000 --> 1:44:36.320 like a it's a film, like it's it's it's worth something, 1:44:36.360 --> 1:44:39.120 and it's it's soulful and there's something to that that 1:44:39.400 --> 1:44:41.719 I feel like it's getting lost in the modern paradigm 1:44:41.800 --> 1:44:46.200 of music where you're you're missing this it's it's so 1:44:46.880 --> 1:44:49.240 it's so much, it's so much all the time that 1:44:49.400 --> 1:44:53.320 I think that the importance of what music can be 1:44:53.880 --> 1:44:57.679 is getting lost to a degree, or can get lost 1:44:57.800 --> 1:45:00.920 in a in an easier way. Um, whereas the you know, 1:45:01.040 --> 1:45:05.360 the album was something that encapsulates a time period in 1:45:05.400 --> 1:45:08.040 a moment in life, and you know of that artist 1:45:08.120 --> 1:45:10.560 where you can really get inside the artist's mind and 1:45:11.240 --> 1:45:15.160 and understand them, and by understanding them, you you understand 1:45:15.200 --> 1:45:17.680 yourself more. And you know, it's that whole symbiotic relationship 1:45:17.760 --> 1:45:20.680 with music and being a listener that I think is 1:45:21.640 --> 1:45:24.440 starting to get kind of dolled down because the importance 1:45:24.560 --> 1:45:30.040 of records and albums. With streaming, importance of music itself 1:45:30.240 --> 1:45:32.960 is becoming, so there's so much of it, I think. 1:45:33.080 --> 1:45:34.880 But I think it's the same thing with television too, 1:45:35.000 --> 1:45:37.439 Like there's just there's so much accessibility and there's so 1:45:37.600 --> 1:45:41.400 much product that it's overwhelming, and it's hard to find 1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:45.920 the real gems that that can change you as a person. Instead, 1:45:46.000 --> 1:45:50.439 you're you're infiltrated with, you know, a flux of tons 1:45:50.520 --> 1:45:53.640 of stuff that that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I 1:45:53.680 --> 1:45:55.679 don't I don't know. I I know that I still, 1:45:56.080 --> 1:45:58.479 even though I'm guilty of using streaming, and I still 1:45:58.560 --> 1:46:00.640 use streaming to listen to the records that I that 1:46:00.760 --> 1:46:03.800 I've always listened to. So I don't know. I don't 1:46:03.840 --> 1:46:05.240 really know what I think of it. I think that 1:46:06.120 --> 1:46:07.640 I think it depends on what you grew up with 1:46:07.720 --> 1:46:10.040 and how you how you use it, because I also 1:46:10.080 --> 1:46:13.000 think everyone uses streaming differently, so it's I don't think 1:46:13.040 --> 1:46:16.040 that you can put a blanket um some up with 1:46:16.120 --> 1:46:18.320 streaming good or streaming bad. I think it depends on 1:46:18.439 --> 1:46:22.400 the on the person and specifically what you know artist 1:46:22.560 --> 1:46:26.439 or moment or thing that you're talking about Okay, so 1:46:26.680 --> 1:46:29.840 there's a great queen song which doesn't get that much airplay, 1:46:29.960 --> 1:46:32.320 but I love it, which is I want it all, 1:46:32.560 --> 1:46:34.920 I want it all, I want it all, I want 1:46:34.960 --> 1:46:39.000 it all, I want it now. Okay, so I was 1:46:39.200 --> 1:46:42.479 literally listening to that like three days ago. I'm forgetting 1:46:43.040 --> 1:46:49.040 Traditionally musicians would sacrifice money to have more people other 1:46:49.120 --> 1:46:52.559 than Gene Simmons, but have more people listen to their music. 1:46:54.040 --> 1:46:57.280 Do you say, well, you know Spotify tip top fifty, 1:46:57.920 --> 1:47:00.720 it's hip hop and pop. But shure that's where I 1:47:00.840 --> 1:47:05.120 want to be. No, no, no, no, I I mean 1:47:05.280 --> 1:47:09.360 I no, because I don't fit on that list. Um, 1:47:09.479 --> 1:47:11.600 I make a different kind of music. I think that 1:47:12.040 --> 1:47:15.160 I would love for you know, our band The Pretty 1:47:15.200 --> 1:47:20.320 Reckless and you know rock and Roll two be at 1:47:20.360 --> 1:47:22.760 the forefront of those lists. Sure, I would love for 1:47:23.120 --> 1:47:25.120 you know, the whole world to think that rock and 1:47:25.240 --> 1:47:26.640 roll is the greatest thing in the world, because I 1:47:26.720 --> 1:47:29.200 think they should think that, um and have it be 1:47:29.960 --> 1:47:32.719 you know, the most played, most popular thing in the world. 1:47:32.960 --> 1:47:35.880 But you know, but I'm also understand that it's not 1:47:36.000 --> 1:47:38.959 always that. It's not that simple because it's not crafted 1:47:39.040 --> 1:47:41.040 for that. It's not meant for that, that's not what 1:47:41.640 --> 1:47:44.280 rock and roll is. Rock and roll is it's meant 1:47:44.360 --> 1:47:46.880 for the underdogs. It's meant for the you know, the 1:47:47.320 --> 1:47:50.360 the people are trying to find their place and you know, 1:47:50.439 --> 1:47:53.720 are a little more. Yeah, and I don't I don't 1:47:53.760 --> 1:47:55.760 like to sum everyone up in one thing. But you know, 1:47:56.080 --> 1:47:59.960 it's it's smart, it's thoughtful, it requires thoughts. It's meant 1:48:00.040 --> 1:48:01.800 to make you think. It's meant to make you feel 1:48:01.840 --> 1:48:05.639 in a real way. Um, and that's not what people 1:48:05.760 --> 1:48:07.880 want all the time, like which you know, it's that 1:48:08.040 --> 1:48:11.080 pop music is very accessible and you can put it 1:48:11.160 --> 1:48:13.920 on in the background. I'm not trying to make background music. 1:48:14.400 --> 1:48:17.880 It's just not what I do. Okay, going back to 1:48:18.000 --> 1:48:22.559 social media, we've established that you keep part of yourself 1:48:22.640 --> 1:48:26.280 removed from social media. But to what degree do you 1:48:26.560 --> 1:48:30.640 post which platforms? You do it yourself or you have 1:48:30.760 --> 1:48:36.960 a team, And then what are your thoughts about TikTok um? Well, 1:48:37.080 --> 1:48:40.599 I I run all my own socials. I'm pretty terrible 1:48:40.680 --> 1:48:44.160 at it. I still like but no, it's it's me 1:48:44.400 --> 1:48:48.360 like Instagram and Twitter and uh and Facebook is linked 1:48:48.400 --> 1:48:52.040 to Instagram and Twitter. Those are all me directly posting. 1:48:52.640 --> 1:48:54.880 Um and then the band sites are the four of 1:48:55.000 --> 1:48:58.280 us posting, so we all have logins to those. UM 1:48:59.280 --> 1:49:03.720 and TikTok is something that you know, everyone in the 1:49:03.800 --> 1:49:06.000 industry says you should be on and get on, jump 1:49:06.040 --> 1:49:08.559 on board with I have one I have at Taylor 1:49:08.600 --> 1:49:11.240 Momson on TikTok. I don't have a lot of posts 1:49:11.280 --> 1:49:14.560 because I haven't quite figured it out. And uh, but 1:49:14.920 --> 1:49:18.280 you know, I think it's it's just content, right, That's all. 1:49:18.439 --> 1:49:22.479 That's all anything is. It's just constantly posting something that's 1:49:22.520 --> 1:49:23.760 kind of how I see it. And so I just 1:49:23.840 --> 1:49:27.160 try to focus that on UM sharing a little bit 1:49:27.200 --> 1:49:28.800 of my life and what I'm doing, but you know, 1:49:28.920 --> 1:49:31.439 keeping it focused on on the art and the music 1:49:31.560 --> 1:49:35.599 and UM, you know that side of things, because that's 1:49:35.840 --> 1:49:38.559 that's what I want to share. But is there anybody 1:49:38.600 --> 1:49:41.280 on your team or yourself who says, oh, there's a 1:49:41.400 --> 1:49:44.599 track on this album and if I cut us ten 1:49:44.720 --> 1:49:47.519 second spot with this, there's a chance that'll catch on. 1:49:48.760 --> 1:49:51.400 Oh no, we're not that calculated. I probably should get 1:49:51.439 --> 1:49:54.880 someone on my team that things like that though. With 1:49:55.000 --> 1:49:57.120 the Internet is moving so quickly, I should probably get 1:49:57.640 --> 1:50:01.880 someone who's on it. Okay, Taylor, I think we've come 1:50:01.960 --> 1:50:04.880 to the end of the feeling we've known. I want 1:50:04.920 --> 1:50:07.519 to thank you so much for taking this time. I'm 1:50:07.680 --> 1:50:12.400 glad that you're back from your unfortunate hole in the world, 1:50:12.600 --> 1:50:15.160 but good to talk to you. It's great to talk 1:50:15.160 --> 1:50:16.720 to you. Thank you so much for doing this, Bob, 1:50:16.800 --> 1:50:18.840 It's it's I've been reading you for years and it's 1:50:18.880 --> 1:50:22.920 so nice to finally speak to you semi face to face. 1:50:23.840 --> 1:50:28.040 You bet Okay, until next time. This is Bob Left 1:50:28.080 --> 1:50:28.400 Sex