WEBVTT - Episode 10: Court For The Queen 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:03.720 School of Humans. 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:08.760 This show follows the investigation of serial murders and contains 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.799 material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised. 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.720 In May of twenty eighteen, the case against Cecilia Stein 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:25.360 and Electus Perdeis was moved from district to High Court. 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.920 Since the group's arrest in twenty sixteen, nearly two years 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.640 had gone by. In that time, Ben Boysen had to 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.760 reassemble case files from six years prior and piece together 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.800 all that had happened since twenty twelve in order to 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:46.400 connect EPD to the murders and get them convicted. Back 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:51.199 in twenty sixteen, John Barnard turned state's witness. He'd agreed 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.520 to testify against EPD, which got him out of a 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:59.440 life sentence he would serve twenty years. LaRue was also 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.840 now a fitly a witness for the state. His testimony 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.200 against Cecilia, his mother, and Zach Valentine is how the 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:11.280 prosecution tied EPD to the twenty twelve murders. LaRue and 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.720 John Barnard's statements, paired with all the evidence gathered by 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:19.319 detectives Susette Canose and Captain Johann ban Vick, made epd's 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:24.240 involvement plausible beyond a reasonable doubt, not to mention the 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.680 guns in Mirinda's classroom and the blood found on her carpet, 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:33.400 blood later discovered to be that of Anthony Schofield. Psychologist 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.520 Rosalind McNabb was hired by the state to advocate for Marcel, 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.679 who was under age when the crimes were committed. Like 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.240 all those who heard Marinda's accounts of the murders, McNabb 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.280 recalls being deeply disturbed. 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:54.680 On the stand, she lied blatantly to save Cecilia. I 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.880 killed Reginald, and I enjoyed every minute of an antit 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.720 it because I want to and I wanted to feel 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:08.040 the power, and went into great GORYGGI detail about how 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:11.240 she did it and saying it had nothing to do 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:12.040 with Cecilia. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.440 Marinda Steyne was served eleven life sentences and one hundred 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:22.160 and fifteen years for eleven murders. The two years that 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:26.240 LaRue spent behind bars provided him ample time to consider 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:30.840 the sting of his mother's betrayal, her many betrayals, but 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:35.720 especially the altering of her will. On the stand, Marinda 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:39.240 claimed she was the mastermind behind all the murders and 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.840 implicated l Ruin Zach in her statements, she excluded Cecilia 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.000 and Marcel from this testimony. In a rare act of 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:52.680 motherly love. For his testimony, LaRue was offered a reduced 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.840 sentence of twenty five years. Ben Boysen remembers the verdict 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:57.960 against LaRue. 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:03.120 LaRue Croit when found guilty and in front of his mother, 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:07.760 he said, thank you captain for sending this pitch to 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:11.880 jail and pointing at his mother. So yeah, I think 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.560 at that stage he made peace with himself that his 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.480 mother actually forced him to commit murdered. 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:27.120 Cecilia, Zach, and Marcel all pleaded not guilty. Cecilia to 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.520 this day claims she knew nothing and had nothing to 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:34.040 do with the murders. She told me herself when I 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:35.520 spoke to her in prison. 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.520 No one can force you to do anything. There's no 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:41.520 such thing as the devil made me do it. There's 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.680 no such thing as God made me do it. We 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.800 make our own choices, we act on our own impulses. 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.840 And Marchelle and LaRue has the reasons they did what 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:55.040 they did. And yeah, there's nothing anybody can say to 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:56.240 change someone else's mind. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.760 From School of Humans and I Heeart podcasts This is 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:05.160 Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult. I'm your host Kurt Kupachek, 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:19.240 Episode ten, Court for the Queen. In twenty eighteen, the 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:23.000 year following the initial sentencing of Mirinda and LaRue, the 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.200 state called fifty two out of about two hundred witnesses 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.680 to testify against three members of Electus Perdais. 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.360 The three that eventually winter trial was a Celia Zak. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.680 And Marsell Ben told us about how he had to 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.400 be careful when choosing who to call to the stand. 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.800 Anyone who believed Cecilia had ties to Satanism could have 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:49.320 confused the judge. Way back in the first episode we 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:53.440 talked about how the judicial system does take Satanism seriously, 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.799 but as we now know, her Satanic past was nothing 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.200 but a tool Cecilia used to convince her followers to 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:06.039 commit these horrendous crimes. Any connection to the devil was 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.279 contrived with no bearing on the murders themselves. 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:11.599 At the end of the day, what is the dud's 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.760 going to believe in? What he is not going to believe? 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:18.479 You understand? So we needed to choose our witnesses to 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.400 prove our cast and not to damage our case. 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.000 Even so, considering all that EPD had gotten away with 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.599 up to this point, faith in the judicial system was 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:30.360 hard to come by. 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.120 Even when we started going to courte there was doubt 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.120 in the family's eyes that these people eventually going to 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:37.960 be found guilty. 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.080 Jana Marx, working as a courtroom journalist at the time, 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.120 was used to watching trials. Yanna kept a keen eye 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:52.680 on all the witness's behavior and body language. She noticed 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:58.040 that Cecilia appeared completely unfazed by the proceedings. She Zach 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.680 and Marcel, at least at first, stuck together like a 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.679 little clique, hiding behind their witty rapport. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.400 They started as a very chetty group, a lot of fun, 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:13.000 fun and games. Celia is very now, she's very lively, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.640 and she tells jokes, and that happened in court the 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.479 second They made little personal jokes and they pointed and 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:21.880 stayed at people, and that's. 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:22.480 How it started. 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.719 One of the key witnesses they mocked was Ria Grunivald, 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:35.280 epd's first victim, at least in a psychological sense, and 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:39.679 Cecilia's apparent motivation for the revenge killings. In twenty twelve. 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.000 It took weeks for state prosecutors and police to convince 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.559 Rhea to come out of hiding and appear in court. 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.080 She did so only under the condition that no photographs 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.359 be taken of her. Her testimony brought her into the 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.560 same room as Cecilia and EPD for the first time 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:03.680 in five years. Yanna reported that Rhea addressed the room, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:09.440 stating Ria Grunivald is dead. She no longer exists. I've 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:15.840 lost everything when they died. I died. Ria's written testimony. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:20.720 Read it was a very difficult time, and I was 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.520 not able to discuss it with anyone, fearing that Sea 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.880 could be punished for speaking out. I had to be 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:32.800 strong for her. She also isolated me from everyone I knew. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:39.160 She lied about everything. I couldn't do anything without them 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:43.840 knowing I believed her. I then decided to end my 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.040 commitment to see and I set up that appointment with 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.760 her where I was threatened. They raised his history. 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.640 With eleven others killed. Rhea managed to escape from the 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:05.040 board texts of Cecilia Stein with her life. However, she 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.520 is still paying a high price. Rea lost her home, 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.360 her livelihood, she lost contact with her children, and the 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.480 rest of her family existence. As she knew it ceased. 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:21.480 It's like her life was murdered, but she went on living. 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.800 She didn't even admit to me where she went into. 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.880 Stay till today, I Tilda and don't speak to her 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:32.040 a grand till Duncia. So she's still in hiding today, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.000 Someway in South Africa. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.680 Some of the witnesses that took the stand included members 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:45.200 of Cecilia's outer circle, folks involved in the Know Your 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.800 Enemy classes she held for a time back in twenty twelve. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.600 Neighbors of the murder victims and members of the task 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.439 team also testified. Here's Detective Hert Krueger. 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.800 There was the witness. They were having a party next 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:03.200 to the house where mister McGregor was staying. They said 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.040 it was a white female where had a very funny 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.000 She was walking funny. They described it like almost like 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.360 walking like a duck and that was Merendo. 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.160 Even Luke came out of witness protection to testify against 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.199 them and report on his chilling time around the group. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.719 As Cecilia, Zach and Marcel witnessed their damning testimony, they 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:31.319 became increasingly less chummy. Their body language began to reflect 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.920 the degradation of Cecilia's mind control. 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:39.800 As more testimony came forward, more evidence came forward, as 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.040 if the group literally a physically moved away from one 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:44.000 another on the bench. 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.920 The more Cecilia allowed everyone else to take the blame 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.679 for her, the more Zach and Marcel recoiled. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.800 See how it was in the middle still just you know, 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.040 observing writings. She took notes. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.240 That's right, Cecilia took notes. She had I had to 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:01.400 keep her story straight. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.199 And you have Zach Valentine. Zach would literally sit on 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:09.200 one butt cheek like he's going to fall off the 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.240 bench at any moment. He was so far away, just 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.560 to say, away from her, and Marcel the same. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:15.040 On the other. 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:23.559 Side, Marcel was in a dark place throughout the proceedings. 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.959 Each time she was called to the stand, she denied 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.760 everything which implicated her brother and made way for her 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.439 mother to continue to sacrifice her own life in exaltation 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:35.680 of Cecilia. 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.240 So Mosel obviously grew more and more depressed as she realized, okay, well, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.000 see you set up the whole trial. She planned the 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.520 whole trial in advance, and Marcel went with it. 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:49.080 Ben tried talking to Marcel, but she was reluctant, even 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.320 to the point of self sabotage. 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:55.160 Marcel from the beginning told me to go fuck myself. 0:10:55.400 --> 0:11:00.920 That was her wit, her father, a real father, Rainstel lawyers, 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.520 a good advocate, and she said no, she doesn't want them, 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:07.640 and she's not guilty. 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:15.080 Remember, the primary charge was racketeering. This was used as 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.560 a pathway to prove their involvement in the murders. This 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.400 risky and unprecedented strategy turned out to be a clever 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:23.680 move on Ben's Park. 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.280 This is the first guise in the history of South Africa. 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.679 Were murderers our charged with with racketeering and was found 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.120 guilty in the I court. 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.560 So, even though each EPD defendant had their own lawyers, 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.600 allegations against one implicated them all as. 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:45.160 The trial progressed, and obviously they had their own legal representatives, 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:50.200 and every legal council obviously wants to exonerate their own 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.640 client and they would throw the others under the bus. 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.640 Zach held fast to the story that he didn't remember anything, 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.160 even the day that his car caught on fire, but 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:06.040 Marinda describing his direct involvement while on the stand revealed 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:12.080 suspicious inconsistencies in the narrative. This prolonged the trial over 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:16.400 the course of three years from twenty sixteen through twenty nineteen. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.439 Electis Perdaeis only spent a total of sixty days in court, 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.839 but prosecutors were relentless in their pursuit of the truth. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.960 The most critical testimonies, though, were the ones given by 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.960 LaRue and Barnard. Again, Jana Marx noted LaRue's physical and 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:35.040 emotive language. 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.560 LaRue not a small boy coming into court, but he 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:46.400 grew more confident during his testimony. I remember him not 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.680 being able to say the word murder or killing. 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.400 He had been brainwashed and pressured by his own mother 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.760 in Cecilia since he was just a kid. 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.040 I think the too first two to three days off 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.079 his testimony, he would just say yeah and then it happened. 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:06.719 Then that happened, assuming a murder, or then I was 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.920 strangled the guy, and then it happened. So it was 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.000 very interesting to see how he evolved during his testimony. 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:18.560 I think getting freeing himself from the bondage of his mother, 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.360 the bondage of Cecilia being in their service. 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.720 LaRue's striking neck tattoo of a large marionette puppet took 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.320 on a symbolic new meaning throughout the course of the 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:35.959 trial as he found his footing in court. LaRue's confidence 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.079 may have been boosted by his budding friendship with journalist 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:44.000 Murtzka Kotsare. LaRue confided in Mritzka about all the ways 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.599 he was abused by his mother and Cecilia. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.640 His mother beat him up because how dare he questioned Cecilia. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.640 You know, and as really said, he said to me, 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.680 the one time his mother hit him more than thirty times, 0:13:57.800 --> 0:13:59.960 she hit him so hard he waved his bed. 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.480 And this was when he was sixteen years old. 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.320 Even behind bars, LaRue feared Cecilia's spectral wrath. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.960 There's actually one time where he was in jail, he's 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:13.880 been sentenced. 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.720 We asked me about Eestro travel. 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.160 He actually genuinely asked me if I thought it was real? 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.160 And do I think Cecilia can get to him and HARMI? 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.560 And I'm like lyuy, you know, this is a bunch 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.200 of shit, Come on now, But it just shows you 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.680 how long he's been manipulated. You know, sitting in jail 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.840 is like, what if Cecilia can sneak into my cell 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:37.120 and come and hurt me? 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:37.440 You know. 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.800 What the public didn't know, however, was that Maritzka and 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.200 LaRue's relationship had evolved from journalists and suspect to a 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:50.840 friendship and then to a fully fledged romance. When that 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.240 lasted for two and a half years. They were already 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.640 an item before the Rue was even officially sentenced. In 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.080 twenty eighteen, me the day before you. 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:02.880 Were sentenced, will I be his girlfriend? 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.200 And at that point, you know, I kind of like froze, 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.440 because like the half of me thought, what's the arm 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.200 of being someone's girlfriend in jail. 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:12.520 I'll never get. 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:16.440 Involved like that, And the other half of me felt 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.720 sorry for him, you know, like, how can I say 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.160 no now, knowing that tomorrow is getting sentenced for let's 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.040 say twenty or twenty five years, so, you know, and 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:26.280 I just said yes. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:27.920 You know, but I did like him. I had a 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:29.800 crush on it. But can you I. 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.239 Imagine the first day that this is now my boyfriend, 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.280 I'm standing in court looking at how he's being sentenced. 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.480 That was really a very sad, you know moment. 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.000 Maritzka was married at the time, and the couple had 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:47.120 a young daughter. By twenty nineteen, with the case mounting 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.920 against Cecilia Zach and Marcel Zach got wind of their 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.000 relationship and tried to use it to his advantage. 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:57.840 Zach was the only one that had a private attorney. 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.400 Everyone else had to state attorneys. Zach's parents by that 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.840 lawyer over two million rangers to you know, help him 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.600 get away with murder. So one of their plans was 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.600 to get me subpoena to tell the court that the 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:11.800 police was using me. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.640 Zach's attorney aimed to get LaRue's testimony stricken from the record. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.280 He argued that Maritzka was working with Ben and the 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:25.000 task team to influence Laru's story. While Maritzka's behavior is 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.840 indeed a breach of journalistic ethics, Zach's attempt to leverage 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.680 her in LaRue's love for his own gain caught her 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:32.280 off guard. 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.120 I've never in my life loved the story like this, 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.440 like the drama, the one that I'm sitting there and 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.160 the investigating officer phones me and he's like, listen, yeah, 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.200 and I want to scare you, but you might be 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:44.920 called to court. 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.640 I'm like, for fucking what, you know, because I'm covering this. 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.000 He's like, no, Zach's attorney is trying to say that 0:16:53.040 --> 0:17:06.879 the police is using me to manipulate LaRue. 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.720 Early in twenty nineteen, in a desperate act of self preservation, 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.680 Zach Valentine and his lawyer tried to sell the story 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.040 that Maritzka was a pawn used by the police to 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:24.560 convince LaRue to stay on his confessional track. If this 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:29.159 were true, it would discredit LaRue's testimony and further complicate 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.920 the case against EPD. Maritzka fought to stay off the stand. 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.160 I'm like a hell to the notice because now can 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.280 you not imagine I need to appear in court. I'm 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.240 a journalist. Now I need to go explain. So I 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.520 was like, this shit is not going down, you know. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.760 The judge recognized that there were more important issues at 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:54.000 stake than an accused killer's girlfriend and rejected the requests 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:55.520 from Zach's attorney. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.560 And luckily the judge threw it outside. 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.800 Was like, whew, I dodged the bullets, okay, But little 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.840 did I know I did not dodge a bullet the 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.000 whole I don't know, like nine yards were coming from me. 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.960 But Zach and his lawyer didn't quit. 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:14.879 After that failed, Zach's girlfriend went to a Sunday newspaper. 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.840 So it's basically the place where I worked, the sister publication. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.040 Can we pause? Are you telling me Zach had a girlfriend? 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:22.320 It was actually his fiance. 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:26.160 How can that woman date Zach? Isn't she Scaredy's gonna 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:30.640 murder as well? But anyways, back to how I saw 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:31.200 my ass. 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:31.600 Okay. 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:38.000 That same week, Maritzka's life began to crumble. 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:39.720 When I rapped at work. 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.640 My boss phoned me and she said to me, from 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.640 this point on, I'm not allowed to speak to anyone anymore. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.919 I'm not allowed to speak to my colleagues. I'm not 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:51.400 allowed to go out on stories. 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.359 By the end of the week, she lost her job. 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.040 By the friday that I arrived at work. As I 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.480 got to the entrance, the h old lady was waiting 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.840 there for me. I didn't even enter that building. They 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.880 took my laptop, they took my access card, and they 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:08.639 suspended me. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.919 Although her marriage had been falling apart for a while, 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:14.480 she was still living in the house she shared with 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.119 her husband and their young daughter. 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.320 I'm a married woman, so now I'm finding my husband. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:26.919 Then my favorite police contact, right, I may said, you listen, hear, colonel, 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:28.520 I need to tell you something. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.280 And then she said to me, yes, she saw online. 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:32.120 I'm like what. 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.800 So while I was driving home, they already put out 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.400 a press release saying that I've been suspended in connection 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:40.600 with the murders. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.920 Maritzka could be charged with obstruction of justice in connection 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.640 with eleven murders. Serious charges. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.520 So now you must know, like everyone like suspects what's 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.919 going on here. But that's still nothing, because this is 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:57.840 the Friday Sunday morning I wake up. I wake up 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.280 not only to the news of my a fay everyway, 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:03.560 but I mean on the lamp. 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:07.560 Pulls Maritzka's face next to a picture of LaRue the murderer, 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.720 plastered all over krueger'storf on the lampposts. 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:16.919 It says journalists madly in love with Jilbird. That was 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.200 the craziest feeling in the world, you know, like becoming 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:21.479 the front page story. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.720 It often feels like we could dedicate an entire podcast 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.240 to just one of the many subplots orbiting around Cecilia 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:38.760 and EPD. This is certainly one of those times. LaRue 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.800 and Meritzka's relationship would survive this. In fact, it would 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:47.720 last until the COVID nineteen lockdown in twenty twenty. Maritzka's 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:52.240 insight into LaRue, however biased, did help us to understand 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.200 him as a person in a big way. She shared 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.800 with us many of the details of their relationship, introducing 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:02.160 a side to LaRue that we hadn't seen before. A 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.520 young man with a big heart, a human being desiring 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.760 a relationship, the comfort of a partner, something he never 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.800 had before. She also told us that he was experiencing 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.080 a new level of paranoia in prison. He could not 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.280 shake the profound fear that had been nurtured and reinforced 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:25.960 in him for years. Maritzka, looking at this some three 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:29.639 years later, was insightful as she reflected on how we 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.119 all build walls around ourselves, cult or no cult. 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.639 And I remember the one day arriving at Rome, and 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.320 as I stopped in front of the gate, I thought 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.800 to myself. Everyone has their own prisons, you know. And 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.280 as I opened that gate, I thought to myself, larit 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.040 doesn't have a key to East prison, but I've got 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:52.679 my own key. 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.560 Which brings us to Marcel, a young woman living inside 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:55.840 the prison of her own mind. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:01.520 Masel was was a bit different. I think the whole 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.720 country's sympathy lie with Marcel. 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.880 On the stand. Two years younger than LaRue. Shy and quiet, 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:16.200 Marcel came across as docile and played up her innocence 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.920 behind big glasses, her style a stark contrast to the 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:23.719 high goth get ups of the rest of EPD. She 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.720 looked almost demure, her hair neatly pulled into a French braid, 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.800 almost as if she grew up in a pastoral setting. 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:35.040 She'd grown accustomed to saying as little as possible so 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:38.320 as not to defy her mother in Cecilia's orders, and 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:43.240 hoping against hope for her mother's affection. Here is psychologist 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:44.400 Rosalind McNabb. 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:49.600 Marcel still did not really, She still wanted to believe 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:54.880 in her mom somehow until the eleventh hour, so there, 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.920 unfortunately didn't go too well for her. 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.520 News accounts of the true paint Marcel as clearly subject 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.400 to profound manipulation, A fearful child, I. 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:11.040 Think, and I obviously see their mom adoring Cecilia. 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:13.280 So you can. 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:16.919 Imagine this young little girl. I'm going to call it 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:18.960 that little girl because she was so young when she 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:21.560 started to live in Celia's house. 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:26.080 Marcel was ten when her mother met Cecilia and thirteen 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.840 when she moved in with her and took responsibility for 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:33.480 all of Cecilia's needs and those of Cecilia's two young children. 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.040 I think she was also thinking she was doing the 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:38.840 right thing, because the adults all had consensus on this, 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:40.560 so this had to be the right thing. 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:45.080 Marcel confided in Rosalind that she had looked up to Cecilia. 0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:53.120 Marcel speaks about how she really adlass Cecilia. I mean 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:58.680 she thought that this woman was her hero. She trist 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:02.480 like she heard it most of the members of that group. 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:07.080 She thought that whatever she said was amazing. She was 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:11.240 her role model. She spoke about her in a speech at. 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:16.600 School, especially after witnessing Michaela's murder. Marcel had no female 0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:19.480 role models in her life, but just like her brother, 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:23.840 Marcel grew up right there on the witness stand in 0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:24.720 front of the world. 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:29.320 Marcelle was a little shy girl coming into the court. 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:33.399 You could definitely see her youthfulness. I don't want to 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:37.560 say innocence, because I mean, after killing, I don't think 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:42.119 I have any more of that left. But she was skid, 0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:46.280 and I remember seeing this little girl with the big 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:49.199 eyes behind the glasses sitting in court, and as the 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:53.760