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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: with you. Our special guest now is Ian Jaded, author, artist,

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Speaker 1: public speaker. His first novel, Tripping the Field, is an

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Speaker 1: occult adventure through shamanism, lucid dreaming, and the potential of

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Speaker 1: human consciousness. His art and writings, by the ways, inspired

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Speaker 1: by more than twenty five years of lucid dreaming and

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Speaker 1: astral projection. His aim is to describe the mechanics of

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Speaker 1: paranormal states of awareness in a very direct manner. Ian.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the program, looking forward to chatting with you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, George, thanks for having me on. Tell me

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about yourself. How did all this

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Speaker 1: evolve for you? Well, so, and let me know how

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Speaker 1: my voice is coming through. I know he had a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a hiccup there at first, So just

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Speaker 1: let me know. Sure in the meantime, I'll just you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll just keep rambling. I'm thirty sudden. All of this

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Speaker 1: started happening to me very spontaneously at about the age

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Speaker 1: of nineteen. We're talking about, I mean about thirty years

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Speaker 1: ago now, and my very first experience with this, as

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Speaker 1: I said, it happened spontaneously. I had never heard of

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Speaker 1: the term lucid dreaming. I'd never heard of really actual

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Speaker 1: projection or I never really knew what that meant. And

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Speaker 1: when it first happened to me, you know, this was

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Speaker 1: before the internet. It was really a thing. I really

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Speaker 1: did not have a lot of resources, and I kind

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Speaker 1: of had to scramble through books and you know, trying

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Speaker 1: to find something at libraries or bookstores or whatnot on

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Speaker 1: the occult. So that's when it first started, when I

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Speaker 1: was nineteen, and I knew immediately after my first experience

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Speaker 1: because it was so impactful. All The first thing that

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Speaker 1: I knew is for sure, I knew that whatever had

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Speaker 1: happened to me was something not natural. Well that maybe

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Speaker 1: that's not the right term. Something that was very rare,

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Speaker 1: perhaps natural, but something that was very rare. It was

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Speaker 1: outside of anything I had ever experienced. How did you

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Speaker 1: mesh your artwork with the supernatural, the lucid dreaming, the

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Speaker 1: consciousness and projection. Well that was easy because these visionary

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Speaker 1: states I would go into. And I know you've had

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Speaker 1: some lucid dreamers and some researchers on your shows before.

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Speaker 1: But let me take a second and just make sure

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Speaker 1: that anyone who is new to this subject, let me

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Speaker 1: take a second first and describe exactly what lucid dreaming

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Speaker 1: is if I can. So, when we talk about lucid dreaming,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people think that they think that it

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Speaker 1: means that I had a very intense dream state, something

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Speaker 1: that was really vivid, and that's not exactly what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about. When we talk about a lucid dream. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about that you become fully aware that you are

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Speaker 1: dreaming while you are dreaming, and that is extremely important.

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Speaker 1: I don't really care how vivid the dream is or

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Speaker 1: really what's going on in the dream, but the key

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Speaker 1: aspect is that you become fully conscious that you are dreaming,

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Speaker 1: and once that happens, everything takes on a completely different context.

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Speaker 1: The dynamics of your consciousness are completely shifted at that point.

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Speaker 1: And after some thirty years of experiencing these states, I

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Speaker 1: would say that specifically, what's actually going on is that

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Speaker 1: we are disconnecting from the narrative of the dream. As

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Speaker 1: you know, anyone who's has any kind of dream states whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: those who remember their dreams. Dreams usually have very strange storylines.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they can you know, they can anything can

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Speaker 1: happen in the dream, right, And we accept that storyline

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Speaker 1: at face value, don't we. You know, we can have

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Speaker 1: a dream of we can be any one, we can

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Speaker 1: be any person, any sort of identity you know, on

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Speaker 1: any planet, on any dating time, and you know, while

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Speaker 1: it's happening, we don't question it. We accepted a face

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Speaker 1: value and we kind of go along with the dream.

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Speaker 1: It's only until later when we wake up and we go, well,

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Speaker 1: that that's ridiculous, that's crazy. So the difference with lucid

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Speaker 1: dreaming is that you are able to stop in the

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Speaker 1: present moment. You are able to disengage from that narrative.

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Speaker 1: And I'm a big I'm a big proponent of the

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Speaker 1: concept of narrative with this lucid dreaming in the astral projection,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a moment. But when you

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Speaker 1: disengage from that narrative in your dream, you pull back

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Speaker 1: into the present moment and you can see it for

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Speaker 1: what it is. And when that happens, usually in my

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Speaker 1: case and for most people's cases, you have a greater

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Speaker 1: control over what's happening. You are kind of suddenly a

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Speaker 1: god in your own micro verse, so to speak. You

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Speaker 1: can kind of control that the dream if you wish to.

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Speaker 1: But you're completely aware that you are, you know, completely awake,

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Speaker 1: You know that you're asleep. You even know about what

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Speaker 1: time it is. Often I would I would know what

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Speaker 1: position my body would be laying in, essentially, and from

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Speaker 1: there from that point on, once you wake up. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the visionary states can get so intense that people often

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Speaker 1: describe as the way I would describe it, they become

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Speaker 1: more real than anything you've experienced in your daily life.

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Speaker 1: It's actually fun. Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's your fic,

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Speaker 1: isn't it it's it's it can be you fork. It

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Speaker 1: can also be frightening in some cases in the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Sure about that a little bit too, because it's it is.

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Speaker 1: The boundaries on your consciousness at that point become very blurred. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, anything can happen. So you asked about my artwork,

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Speaker 1: so you know, we touch on that really quick. Let

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Speaker 1: me answer your question that from those lucid states I

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Speaker 1: wanted to I knew everything about me once I got

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Speaker 1: into this lucid dreaming. I wanted to share this other people.

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Speaker 1: I wanted them to experience what I did. So one

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Speaker 1: of the ways I was doing it originally and what

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Speaker 1: I still do is through my artwork. I try to

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Speaker 1: create the feeling that I had in those states, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to try to protect it on the canvases

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Speaker 1: so that people, you know, when people see these euphoric images,

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Speaker 1: they can kind of get maybe a flavor, a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a taste for what these states are like.

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Speaker 1: And I know that other lucid dreamers look at my

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Speaker 1: artwork and they go, Yeah, that's it. That's the that's

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Speaker 1: that euphori, that's that sense of intensity and bliss. Now,

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Speaker 1: since this has been happening for you, can you lucid

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Speaker 1: dream at will? I can't. I can't either, And isn't

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Speaker 1: that funny that I've been doing this for thirty years

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Speaker 1: and there are I have studied every technique under the book.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of different ways to to

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Speaker 1: induce lucid dreams. I was lucky I these things started

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Speaker 1: happening to me spontaneously, you know, Like I said, before

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Speaker 1: I had any knowledge of it, and in retrospect, I've

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Speaker 1: i couldn't be more grateful for that, because one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest problems we are lacking today is the Internet.

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Speaker 1: We have an Internet, and we have so many thousands

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Speaker 1: and thousands of people with lots of information disinformation. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: they've read a book and they think they're now a

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Speaker 1: shaman or a guru, and they're offering a lot of

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Speaker 1: information online and whatnot. And I was lucky that I

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Speaker 1: kind of had to just go into this blindly, and

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Speaker 1: I kind of had to learn as I went so.

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Speaker 1: But if they always kind of happened spontaneously, and they

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Speaker 1: still do, they'll just happen. They just kind of turn on.

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Speaker 1: And now I was able to learn techniques to control

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Speaker 1: the dream. Those were very important. I learned a lot

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Speaker 1: of techniques on how to keep my focus and ground

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Speaker 1: myself in these states so I could stay in them

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Speaker 1: longer and longer. But initially kicking them in, I honestly

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Speaker 1: couldn't tell you what what it was to kick them in.

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Speaker 1: But there's nothing special about me I was. I was

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Speaker 1: not doing any hallucinogens at the time when I was

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Speaker 1: nineteen at least, you know, that's kind of a question

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Speaker 1: I get. So kind of drugs were young. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: on anything at all, and they just kind of started happening. Now,

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Speaker 1: you also have mentioned that you're an atheist. So by

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Speaker 1: by being an atheist, you don't believe in God. But

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Speaker 1: what do you believe in? I believe in consciousness? And

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Speaker 1: and I would say that when I say that I'm

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Speaker 1: an atheist, I sort of put an asterisk at the

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Speaker 1: end of that, If that makes sense. It's my way

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Speaker 1: of trying to direct people back to the idea that

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Speaker 1: perhaps there is no supernatural And by that I simply

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Speaker 1: mean that all of these things are completely natural, and

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Speaker 1: we simply don't have the framework, the context, or the

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Speaker 1: way to research consciousness directly. I mean, I'm sure that

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Speaker 1: with all your studying yourself, George, I'm sure you know

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Speaker 1: that consciousness is always that hard problem in science. How

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Speaker 1: do you define it? What is it exactly? You know?

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Speaker 1: And now I have my definition of consciousness. I believe

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Speaker 1: that consciousness, to me is a field of energy that

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Speaker 1: is essentially not different than say, the electromagnetic field perhaps,

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Speaker 1: and it is something that, as I've been studying this

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Speaker 1: for years and years, the best way to describe it

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Speaker 1: for me I describe it as it's a ground state

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Speaker 1: for energy and matter. It is like the base truth

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Speaker 1: that the universe seems to be built off from energy

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Speaker 1: and matter, you know, all the way up to sell

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Speaker 1: to molecules, to know the full build building blocks of life.

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Speaker 1: I think beneath all of it, consciousness is somehow a

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Speaker 1: all primordial thing that has always existed, and the only

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Speaker 1: thing that limits it or appears to make it seem

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Speaker 1: limited is I'm going to go back to that story

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Speaker 1: of narrative. It goes back to narrative. We are attached

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Speaker 1: to storylines, and we are a strange species that we get.

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Speaker 1: You know, we talk to ourselves. We have a lot

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Speaker 1: of stories that go on in our heads, and our

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Speaker 1: relationship with narrative seems to bind that consciousness to our bodies.

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Speaker 1: It seems to bind us to all sorts of things

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Speaker 1: in our lives. That creates all sorts of unnecessary stresses

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Speaker 1: and fears and limitations. And I'm all about moving beyond

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Speaker 1: all of that. Now. Let's let me ask you this

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Speaker 1: question again about about God. Do you believe that everything

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Speaker 1: that we see, touch, that was created was done by

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Speaker 1: a universal kind of accident, or was there some kind

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Speaker 1: of intelligence and design behind it? I think that, like

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Speaker 1: I said, raw consciousness I believe is at the base

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Speaker 1: of everything. Okay, so I wouldn't say that it's an accident.

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Speaker 1: I would say that perhaps if you want to call

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Speaker 1: that primordial consciousness a god, I suppose so, But I

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Speaker 1: don't see it as something that is able to you know,

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Speaker 1: our primordial consciousness is not something that has an identity.

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Speaker 1: It's below that. It is below desire, it's below good

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Speaker 1: and evil. It just simply is aware. It's a it's

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Speaker 1: a pure awareness. So that's that is what I see

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Speaker 1: at the base of everything, and everything springs out from that,

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Speaker 1: perhaps spontaneously. And I think, like I said, I think

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Speaker 1: that's a perfectly natural phenomenon. I don't think it's a

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Speaker 1: supernatural thing. I think it's perfectly in line with nature.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe in life after death? Ian, I believe

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Speaker 1: that there ultimately is no death for consciousness. I think

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Speaker 1: that absolutely your body dies, and there's no question about that.

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Speaker 1: I think that consciousness was never created. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that it was ever born at this point. So when

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Speaker 1: our bodies die, I think it we become aware again.

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Speaker 1: We kind of sink back into that primordial consciousness and

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Speaker 1: there's not even a sinking. We already are that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there is no actual you know, there is no really

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Speaker 1: going back. It's all dropping of this storyline that we

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Speaker 1: have about who we are, and we have a storyline

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Speaker 1: about our bodies. We have a storyline about where we

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Speaker 1: are in our life and our name and our job

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Speaker 1: and YadA YadA, YadA, YadA YadA, and that is what dies, definitely,

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Speaker 1: And when that dies, we detached from that and we

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Speaker 1: become more conscious. So I would say that at the

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Speaker 1: end of life there is even more intensity and more

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Speaker 1: consciousness to be had afterwards. If you are going to

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Speaker 1: lucia dream or astral project just the one which would

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Speaker 1: it be, Oh gosh, astral projection. Uh, that is where

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Speaker 1: you really moved beyond the body. So and lucid dreaming

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Speaker 1: and astral projection. I learned the hard way that they

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Speaker 1: are connected. I had no idea at the time I

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Speaker 1: had That's that's become more accepted, you know, with our

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Speaker 1: of our modern day information. But at the time I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize how they were, how they were connected. I

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Speaker 1: would start going to these states where I would become

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Speaker 1: I would wake up and then I would have what

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Speaker 1: appeared to be sort of a dream of leaving my body,

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Speaker 1: and I would be able to sort of disengage from

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Speaker 1: my body, and then I could go find I started

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Speaker 1: finding friends and family. Some of them would be hundreds

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Speaker 1: of miles away from where I was, and I would

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Speaker 1: start observing them. You know, what's my mom doing back

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Speaker 1: outside of Chicago while I was in college in southern Indiana.

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Speaker 1: I'd be able to watch exact actually what she was doing.

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Speaker 1: I could see the clock on the wall, I could

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Speaker 1: see what she was wearing, you know, what she was

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Speaker 1: cooking in the morning for breakfast and whatnot. Later on

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Speaker 1: I would go I would make a phone call the mom.

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Speaker 1: I started doing this fairly. I could be scientific about it,

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Speaker 1: if that makes sense, and say, hey, Mom, what were

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Speaker 1: you doing it? You know exactly seven am. You have

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Speaker 1: to narrate to me what was going on bit by bit,

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Speaker 1: and at the time, to my horror, I would say

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Speaker 1: that people started relating the exact thing that I was seeing,

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Speaker 1: and that, frankly, that freaked me out. I didn't really

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Speaker 1: want to hear that. Well, sure, I mean because that

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Speaker 1: showed me. That proved to me, after enough experiences and

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Speaker 1: enough talking to people, that proved to me that, well,

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Speaker 1: these aren't just dreams taking place in my head. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's sort of a safety that I could imagine. You know,

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Speaker 1: even though I was waking up and becoming aware I

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Speaker 1: was dreaming, I never really imagined that this meant that

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Speaker 1: I could now disengage from my body. How that some

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Speaker 1: part of me, my my base consciousness, could now disassociated

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Speaker 1: from my body and go travel other places and see

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Speaker 1: what was going on. I mean, that was kind of

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Speaker 1: frightening because and what's funny is that even today a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who come to me with questions that

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Speaker 1: you know, they have these concerns like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: what if what if I couldn't come back to my body?

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Speaker 1: You know, could I get that couldn't get snapped? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you know, people have talked about that chord. I've

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Speaker 1: never seen, you know, I've never seen that that traditional,

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Speaker 1: that stereotypical, that the silver chord that attaches you to

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Speaker 1: your body. I've personally never seen that, but I definitely

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Speaker 1: have felt. I guess you would say a poll. There

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Speaker 1: are times where my body starts to wake up or

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Speaker 1: something's going on with my physical form, and I'm it's

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Speaker 1: like I'm being yanked back, and I can feel this

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Speaker 1: something pulling on me and I'm kind of snapped back

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Speaker 1: into my body, and it takes me a moment to

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Speaker 1: kind of, you know, readjust my Apparently, when you're in

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Speaker 1: your astral state and you're still alive, obviously, yes, the

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Speaker 1: chord is connected to your physical body. And let's say

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Speaker 1: you go to an outer region of the universe, that

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Speaker 1: chord would become even like string thin, but it's still

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Speaker 1: attached to your body. It just will not snap, but

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Speaker 1: it does snap when you die. That's what I've always heard. Well, perhaps,

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Speaker 1: and I also think again, that's another narrative that I

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Speaker 1: also don't. I'm a person who's trying to get rid

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Speaker 1: of every storyline that I can and trying to take

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Speaker 1: a look at what's actually real. So when we talk

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Speaker 1: about that idea of like, I would say that the

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Speaker 1: spiritual community, and I'm not picking on them, but in

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Speaker 1: many ways, they come with a lot of storylines about

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Speaker 1: lucid dreaming and astral projection. They come with a lot

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Speaker 1: of dogma, almost like in many religions. And I've heard

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Speaker 1: that story about you know, the idea of how this

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Speaker 1: chord works, you know, the idea of like you imagine

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Speaker 1: it getting thinner, just as you said, as you move

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Speaker 1: further out. I don't really see it that way. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that consciousness is necessarily like that. Now. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: we experience like that for some reason, but I don't

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Speaker 1: really even think anymore that that there is something actually

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Speaker 1: leaving my body. I see that consciousness perhaps is not

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Speaker 1: localized at all. Let me say that one more time

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Speaker 1: in case that's, you know, to wrap your head around it.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there is any localization to consciousness. I

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Speaker 1: think it is everywhere. So the idea that something is

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Speaker 1: leaving the body and there's some sort of chord between

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Speaker 1: the two, I don't really buy that anymore. I'm starting

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Speaker 1: to feel more and more that perhaps that's just another

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Speaker 1: story that we're telling ourselves that you know, I'm in

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Speaker 1: this ball of whatever, and I'm leaving my body, and

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Speaker 1: then I come back to my body. I think that

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Speaker 1: there is no coming in going. I think ultimately consciousness

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Speaker 1: perhaps is everywhere. Like I said, I believe it's the

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Speaker 1: ground state for everything beneath the universe. Listen to more

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am every weeknight at one am Eastern,

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