1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: I absolutely know that issues exist, and they are cultural 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: and they are baked into society, but that doesn't mean 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: we don't have an obligation to try. That's what I'm doing, 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: That's what we all have to do, and we have 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: to do it together. 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 2: From Fudro Media and BrX, It's Latino USA. I'm Marieno 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 2: Rosa today a conversation with Robert Santos, the first Latino 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 2: to lead the US Census Bureau. Dear listener, you might 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: remember that in twenty nineteen, the Supreme Court blocked the 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 2: Trump administration's push to include a question about citizenship status 11 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty census. Well, in early May of 12 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, House Republicans passed a bill that is 13 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: reminiscent of those very same efforts. The Quote Equal Representation 14 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: Act is a measure that seeks to include a citizenship 15 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: question on the next census, scheduled for twenty thirty, and 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 2: to exclude people who are not citizens from the census count. 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: That bill now sits with the majority Democrat Senate, and so, 18 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 2: dear listener, we felt that it was important to share 19 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: with you again a conversation that we had with Robert Santos, 20 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: who is the director of the US Census Bureau. Santos 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: told us why being counted in the Census is important 22 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: and what exactly he was doing to rebuild trust among communities. 23 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: Here's my conversation with Robert Santos from twenty twenty two. 24 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: President Joe Biden announced last April that his intended nominee 25 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: to lead the US Census would be Robert Santos. Then 26 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 2: just a few weeks later, Santos went before the Senate 27 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 2: Homeland Security Committee for his confirmation hearing. 28 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: It's an honor and I'm humbled to appear before you 29 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: today as the nominee for the director of the Census Bureau. 30 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank the President and Secretary Rimando for 31 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: the trust they have placed me with this nomination. 32 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: Santos is super proud about being born and raised in 33 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: the barrios of San Antonio, Texas. He has served as 34 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: President of the American Statistical Association, vice President and chief 35 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: methodologist at the Urban Institute, along with other big roles 36 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: throughout his career. Santos has more than forty years of 37 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: experience in survey research, and he specializes in quantitative and 38 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: qualitative research design. 39 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be here today without the endurance support of 40 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: my family. At age eighteen, I married my wife, Adela, 41 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: and we've now been married forty eight years. She's my 42 00:02:55,240 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: most important source of support, counsel, and love. Are two children, 43 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: Emilio and Cladissa, always support me and are constant sources 44 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: of comfort and pride. 45 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: During his confirmation hearing, Santos was asked about redistricting along 46 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: with potential big challenges for the upcoming twenty thirty Census. 47 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: Santos was confirmed in November of twenty twenty one. A 48 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: few months later and January of this year, he was 49 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: sworn in as the twenty sixth Director of the US Census, 50 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: and he is the first Latino to hold that position. 51 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: Hi Robert Santos I, Robert Sambo will support in defan 52 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: will support in the fan. 53 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: Santos is no stranger to the US Census. Before his 54 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: nomination and confirmation, he warned in October of twenty twenty 55 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: that former President Trump's interference with the census count could 56 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: result in one of the most flawed census counts in history. 57 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: Census counts are important because they helped determine the number 58 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: of seats each state has in the US House of Representatives. 59 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: It's also used to help allocate and distribute billions of 60 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: federal dollars across local communities throughout the entire country. Trump 61 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: wanted a question on the past census that asked for 62 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: people's US citizenship status. Well, you need it for many reasons. 63 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: Number one, you needed new words with Congress, you needed 64 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: for Congress spati picking. 65 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 2: You needed for appropriations. Citizenship has been on that thing 66 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 2: most of the time for many many years. A citizenship 67 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: question had not been on the census for several decades, 68 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: and of course citizenship status is not used for redistricting. 69 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 2: And after several lawsuits, the Supreme Court ultimately blocked the 70 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: citizenship question from being on the twenty twenty census, but 71 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: the damage had already been done and there was an 72 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 2: even further gap in trust with communities across the United States. 73 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: The weaponization of the US Census isn't something new. We've 74 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: seen it with the founding of this country, when enslaved 75 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 2: Africans were counted as three fifths of a person, and 76 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: later when Japanese Americans were in prison and tracked down 77 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 2: by using the census. So on today's episode, I have 78 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: a conversation with director Robert Santos about his new role, 79 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: his love for his hometown of San Antonio, and the 80 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 2: complicated history of the US Census. Director Robert Santos, Hello, 81 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: and thank you so much for being with me here 82 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 2: today on Latino USA. 83 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: I was ready to climb a ladder and do the 84 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: interview upside down if I could have the opportunity to 85 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: be a part of this experience with you, because I've 86 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: always valued everything that you've done on your program. 87 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, well, thank you. I don't I am 88 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: actually I'm having a moment. Did the director of the 89 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: US Census just say to me that he values the 90 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: work that I've been doing and knows my work? I 91 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 2: really am having a moment. 92 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: Every week we listen to your program and the job 93 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: you're doing to help the United States understand the value 94 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: of our rich diversity of Latinos, I think is amazing. 95 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: Thank you, Director Santos for being for being a supporter 96 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: of our work and knowing our work. It really means 97 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: a lot. And I think I'm going to start there 98 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 2: because if I think about my experience as a Latina 99 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: in the media over the last thirty years, I think 100 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: that people always saw me kind of like, you know, like, oh, 101 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: here she goes again bringing up Latinos and Latinas, and 102 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: I think, I mean, I'm not a big mathematician or 103 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 2: a statistician like you, but I can read a demographic 104 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: chart and I could see that the Latino population was 105 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,799 Speaker 2: just increasing. And so for a lot of my career, 106 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: people have kind of been like, oh God, here she 107 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: comes talking about Latinos again. I always found it very 108 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: interesting that people felt like it was a bother or 109 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: like a threat or a problem instead of just like, no, 110 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: but we're just kind of looking at that, And I'm 111 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 2: wondering if you're kind of having that same sensation in 112 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: your life right now. 113 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for offering that perspective, because actually I've 114 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: been having that type of interaction my entire career. I've 115 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: had episode after episode where I was the sole Latino 116 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: in a room of research decision makers who maybe hadn't 117 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: realized that when they come to the table and they 118 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: frame research questions or they perceive problems that they want 119 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: to help society solve, they do it with their cultural lens. 120 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: I've had many instances where I basically say, excuse me 121 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: if you do that, you actually will be doing harm 122 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: and not good. Even though the statistical design and the 123 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: research design was pristine. However, if you frame the question 124 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: the wrong way, or you capture information in a way 125 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: that doesn't really reveal what's going on, or interpret it 126 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: by talking to people in the community to help get 127 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: it better understanding, you can end up actually doing more 128 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: harm than good. 129 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: And the other thing I need to know, Director Santos, 130 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I just need to know. I know you 131 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 2: used to have a ponytail. Do you still it's growing? Holy. 132 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: I was asked to be considered for the nomination and 133 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: I decided to do it. I did it out of 134 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, Goda Son. I wanted to help my country, 135 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: and I believed I could offer something as a Latino 136 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: from my rich perspective, cultural perspective, and research perspective. But 137 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: the one thing that I decided is that I have 138 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: to be myself, and myself is Santhos with the ponytail. 139 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: And so I'm going to be myself and try to 140 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: do the best I can to help the Census Bureau 141 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: to help the American people. And if it works, great, 142 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: and if it doesn't, I tried. 143 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: I think it's really cool. I just want to say, 144 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: because one you're rocking it, it works, and two I 145 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 2: just think you're saying something about just having to be yourself. Right. 146 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 2: So recently I was in San Antonio. That's the city 147 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 2: of where you were born and raised. I was at 148 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 2: Trinity University giving a lecture, and you know, I love 149 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: San Antonio. It's one of my favorite cities because what 150 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 2: I've been going to it ever since a little girl, 151 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: because I was always driving through Texas to get from 152 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 2: Chicago to Mexico. It's a majority Latino city in the 153 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: United States, in the state of Texas. So yeah, not 154 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: as a kid from San Antonio, but as somebody who 155 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: understands the power of the work of the census, demography 156 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 2: and the picture of the future of the United States. 157 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: I mean, is San Antonio in fact the future of 158 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 2: what the United States looks like? And what does that 159 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 2: mean to you? 160 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: Well, there are many really interesting things about San Antonio. 161 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: The fact that it has always had a very prominent 162 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: place for Mexican Americans in particular, but Latinos more generally 163 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: as being part of the city. Yet when I was 164 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: growing up, it was pretty effectively segregated and even in 165 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: some of the Latino communities. You know, I lived on 166 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: the side of the Woodland Lake that you know, wasn't 167 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: considered the best part, and so if I went into 168 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: the other side where there were folks were better off, 169 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 1: I might be looked upon a little differently. But it's 170 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: interesting that we've embraced the culture of the Mexican American 171 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: community in San Antonio. 172 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess the reason why one of the 173 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 2: reasons why I keep on asking about San Antonio as 174 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: a city of the future and and what it looks like. 175 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: And you're right. I mean, you get out of the 176 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 2: airport in San Antonio because I was just there and 177 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 2: there were these like huge artist representations of Lata's, the 178 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 2: Chipotle Chiles, Chipotle Salsa ervees, and I was like, only 179 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 2: in San Antonio, will you see this? Like at the 180 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: airport it's and and and all of this is like 181 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: we're talking about San Antonio, and you know, as it 182 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: relates to a kind of city of the future with 183 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: a kind of sense of joy and hope and laughter. 184 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: But you know this, Director Santos, that actually the way 185 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 2: the narrative goes right now in the United States today 186 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 2: is that Latinos and Latinas post some kind of a 187 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: threat that we're majority not from the United States, that 188 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 2: we're coming here, that we're new. So put those two 189 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: things together for me, h. 190 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: Well, it's not unusual for societies to have segments of 191 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: the population that view individuals of different backgrounds to be threats, 192 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: when in fact it's very much of an opportunity. We 193 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: could not survive without immigrants coming in and helping our 194 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: economy in ways that otherwise the citizen population would not 195 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: be able to contribute. So I very much value the diversity, 196 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: and I think that's one of our strongest points as 197 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: a nation, and that's why I take so much pride 198 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: in being able to advance the measurement and the counting 199 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 1: and the learning about the rich diversity of our population 200 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: and how it's getting more diverse. It's inevitable, as you said, 201 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: it's coming, and we need to find better ways to 202 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: leverage and embrace that because it's going to improve society. 203 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: But I bring a different perspective. I think to research 204 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: and the Census Bureau and sort of research more generally 205 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: social science research, and I believe that you have to 206 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: bring your whole self. So I believe in diversity, equity, inclusion, 207 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: and I think in order to be a better scientist, 208 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: a better mathematician, a better statistician, you need to bring 209 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: your culture to the table when you talk about and 210 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: think about research, about interpreting results, about how you analyze it, 211 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: even how you frame what it is that you're going 212 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: to look at, because that way you can actually learn 213 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: more and gain more relevant insights into particular problems, whether 214 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: it's hunger or housing, or the pandemic and vaccination statuses 215 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: or whatever. 216 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: Okay, so, Director Santos, I actually want to take you 217 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 2: back to those days when you were growing up as 218 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: a kid in San Antonio. You were on the west 219 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: side of the city. You said it was a very 220 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 2: segregated city, and so you growing up what was life 221 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: like back then as a were you like, yeah, we're 222 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 2: definitely the majority. We got this, We're going places. Or 223 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 2: did you feel like, wow, this country's in the middle 224 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: of a civil rights era. Latinos and Latinas were not 225 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 2: necessarily visible. 226 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: So what was it To be honest, I was a 227 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: kid in the sixties, I was in elementary school and 228 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: middle school, and I graduated in seventy two, and son't 229 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: I wasn't able until I was maybe in grad school 230 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: at Michigan to really connect the dots fully, to realize 231 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: the value and importance of being a Latino. And that's 232 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: where between my college and graduate school years where I 233 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: really embraced and understood the magnitude of the societal issues. 234 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 3: That we were dealing with. 235 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: But back when I was a kid, I was basically surviving. 236 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to go to parochial school for 237 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: twelve years that instilled some great values in me that 238 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: I take with me and I use every day of 239 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: my forty year career as well as. 240 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 3: Now my continuing career. 241 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: The Census Bureaum and those values of trying to help people, 242 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: those values of being inclusive and treating people fairly and 243 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: trying to help society, those are really important and they 244 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: drive me and they've drive everything that I've done, you know, 245 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: treating people with respect, regardless of race, color, creed, religion, 246 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: or whatever. 247 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: So your mom and dad worked at the air Force base, right. 248 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: Yes, there were some very fortunate to have civil service 249 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: positions at Kelly Air Force Base while it was open. 250 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 2: So this notion of I see you as my equal, 251 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: a child of the civil rights era. Where was that 252 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 2: coming from? Was that your mom and dad bringing it home? 253 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: And talk to me a little bit about having a 254 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: mom and dad in the air force, because I mean, 255 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: my dad was a scientist, medical doctor, researcher. But we 256 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 2: didn't talk that stuff over dinner. But like your dad 257 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: was asking you math questions, So take me a little 258 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: bit back. 259 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. We had a really tightly knit family 260 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: and everything circulated around familiar and because everything revolved around family, 261 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: our focus was we didn't necessarily at the dinner table 262 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: talk about the inequities of society as much as talked 263 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: about familia and how we help each other and how 264 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: we need to strive to get better education and get 265 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: good jobs. 266 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: I mean, that was what it was all about. 267 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: And you know, how could anyone blame familias for talking 268 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: about that in San Antonio who were Mexican American and 269 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: whose grandparents had fled because of the revolution, the violence 270 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: in northern Mexico that was going on to survive and 271 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: they started in new life and with almost nothing, and 272 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: my grandparents starting with jobs as gardeners or as cleaning people. 273 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 3: We then grew and. 274 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: Generation after generation improved and that pursuit of the American dream. 275 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: That's really what was the focus of discussion. And me 276 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 1: as a little kid with my brother who's no longer 277 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: with us, our focus was on trying to have as 278 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: good of a time as we could, especially with my 279 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: parents both being off to work in us being latchkey kids, 280 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: so we got into all kinds of mischief. 281 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: Okay, well, I need to know what mischief looks like 282 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 2: in West San Antonio. Then give me a couple of examples. 283 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 2: What were you guys doing. 284 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: Well, it was mischief in the sense of, you know, 285 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: we'd have you know, mudball fights in San Antonio where 286 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: the back of the house was yeah, mudball. We just 287 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, throw water in the dirt, make mudballs and 288 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: come at it and the back of the house would 289 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: be covered with mudballs that stuck to the side of 290 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: the house. Or we'd grab our bicycles and we were 291 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: like what eight, nine, ten years old now, I'd say ten, 292 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: eleven or twelve, and then head off from Woodlawn Lake 293 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: area to pass downtown to Hemisphere where it was being built, 294 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: so we could watch the tower going up wow, or 295 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: go out to the airport and watch the jets come 296 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: in and that's really long distances for kids in the 297 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: middle of the summer with no water. 298 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 3: We just stop at. 299 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: Gas stations, but we would do crazy, crazy stuff like that. 300 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 2: It's kind of incredible that kids get into all that 301 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 2: mischief and survive, right, It's kind of amazing. 302 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: What's really important, though, is if you combine that sense 303 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: of adventure with the values that were instilled during the 304 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 1: schooling that I had. It's those two things that have 305 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: propelled me to take chances and risks where maybe other 306 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: folks would not have done it. So pretty much in 307 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: every job I've ever taken, it's been a step up, 308 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: and I've said, oh my god, can I Am I 309 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: really going to be able to do this? And then 310 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: I'd end up saying, well, look, just like I told 311 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,959 Speaker 1: you earlier, I'm going to try my best. I'm going 312 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: to be myself and if I can contribute, great, and 313 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: if I can't, I'll be able to look myself in 314 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: the mirror and say I tried my best. 315 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: Coming up on let you know, USA Director Santos on 316 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 2: rebuilding trust and facing the systemic problems at the Census, 317 00:19:43,800 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: Stay with us, Yes, Hey, we're back. We're going to 318 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 2: continue now with my conversation with Director of the US 319 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 2: Census Bureau Robert Santos. The interesting thing, Director Santos, is 320 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: that I have a lot of feelings about the Censes. 321 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 2: With the Censes, it's actually something that has had an 322 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 2: impact in my life in very interesting ways. And I 323 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: kind of be honest with you, and I'm sure you're 324 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 2: not going to be surprised when I'm like, it's kind 325 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: of a love hate relationship with the Senses. I think 326 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 2: I remember as a little girl that Hispanic was a 327 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: term that was created for the Census by a Republican administration, 328 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: and my family did not like the Republicans. So I 329 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 2: was like, I'm not Hispanic, I'm not a term that 330 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: was created. So the Census has this kind of again 331 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 2: this impact. In fact, in twenty ten, when I form 332 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 2: Futuro Media, my own company, one of the things that 333 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 2: made me believe that I could do it was data 334 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 2: from the Censes. Right. The data was that the Latino 335 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 2: population growth from twenty to twenty ten had grown at 336 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: forty three percent. So the Census is an organization that 337 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: we I think you too have had a love hate 338 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 2: relationship with am I right? How do you see how 339 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 2: the Census has impacted your personal life. Were you that 340 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 2: guy who was like thinking about the censes like decades. 341 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: Ago, actually decades ago? I was because I actually did 342 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: projects for the Census as a as a researcher. I 343 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: served for six years on the advisory committee and said 344 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: the same thing day one as I did six years 345 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: later as I walked out the door in terms of advice. 346 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: But I actually have not had a love hate relationship. 347 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: I've had a love love relationship with the Census my 348 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: entire career because I recognize. 349 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: Love love like I mean, you've been critical of it, though. 350 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 3: Right, because I love the Census Bureau. 351 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 2: Are you, like really that person who's like, oh my god, 352 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 2: I've always loved this. Are you that person? 353 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: I am in the sense that I want it and 354 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: we need it to improve and to be the best 355 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: that it is. It's been, It's done some exceptionally great 356 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: stuff in the past. All statistics have strengths and limitations. 357 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: The limitations for desennial Census historically have been ones where 358 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: people of color are undercounted. That's an issue. I've been 359 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: critical before the Census, and now that I'm director, we're 360 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: looking at that and it's not like they don't look 361 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: at it every you know, day of our lives. We 362 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: have experts who are trying their best to think of 363 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: new creative ways to help with participation, et cetera. But 364 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: I recognize that the data that the census provides is 365 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: a vital part of our democracy. We can't improve communities, neighborhoods, 366 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: we can't identify problems unless we can measure properly the 367 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: state of the nation who we are as a people. 368 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: And it's in that context that I've always loved the 369 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: Census Bureau because I admire them doing the best that 370 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: can be done, even though it's not perfection. 371 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: Because I mean, that's what I was going to say. So, 372 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: so is it that you've been up at night not 373 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 2: now just because you're the director of the Senses, but 374 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: that in the past because the undercounting of in particular 375 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: Latino Latina LATINX community and frankly, and I know this 376 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 2: is not a surprise to you, there's deep distrust now 377 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 2: with any government institution in the United States. I mean 378 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: those things that have kept you up at night. This 379 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 2: whole notion of like the deep, deep undercounting that comes 380 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: from one I suppose deep disorganization, but also deep distrust. 381 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: I'm not prepared to say it keeps me up at night, 382 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: as much as it's a core issue that we need 383 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: to address for the future, we need to recognize its existence. 384 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: There are mistrust issues that have been historical as well 385 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: as more recent, and I would never have taken this 386 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: job unless I thought I could help in that regard. 387 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: So one of the primary agenda items for me, or 388 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: contributions that I want to make as Director of the 389 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,239 Speaker 1: Census Bureau is to put a human face on the 390 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 1: Census Bureau. We're not a bunch of mathematicians in our 391 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: little offices thinking big thoughts. We're actually human beings. We 392 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: all have cultures, we all have issues, we all are 393 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: human in nature. And I'm bringing that because I think 394 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: I can. I'm going to outreach to communities, to neighborhoods, 395 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: to stakeholders, to congress, to local governments, to tribal communities. 396 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: I want to get out there and I want to 397 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: find out what those issues are with my staff. So 398 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: the Census spiritA will be a part of all of 399 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: that and establish a continuous relationship with people and with 400 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: communities rather than simply two years before a Census, saying Okay, 401 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: it's time for us to have partnerships. We recognize that 402 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: we need to have this continuously, and I'm going to 403 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: be upfront and center trying to work with everyone to 404 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: establish a true two way relationship, not just to help 405 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: us get participation, but also here is information that's useful 406 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: for your specific community. Here are some tools you can 407 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: use to identify community needs, to solve problems, to create 408 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 1: more economic development. That's the type of two way relationship 409 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: that I really want to. 410 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 2: Get, Director Santos. The last administration and all of the 411 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 2: controversy leading up to the twenty twenty senses has I mean, 412 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: it's so polarized, and it forced people more into a 413 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 2: place of darkness, I suppose in regards to the senses. 414 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 2: So I mean you're trying to kind of I don't 415 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: want to say catch up, because you're actually trying to 416 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 2: do something very futuristic. But you've got a lot of 417 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 2: lead from the last administration and last decades. I mean 418 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 2: that lead is how do you deal with that lead 419 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 2: that is weighing you down, which is part historical and 420 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 2: you know, systemic. 421 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: I do not view this as an issue of oh 422 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: my god, look what's happened in the past. I view 423 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: it as where do we need to get into the 424 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: future and how do we need to address these types 425 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: of issues. 426 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 3: So I'm I'm. 427 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: Looking forward because one of the greatest attributes and strengths 428 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: of the Census Bureau is that it is a non 429 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: partisan federal statistical agency. So I'll say it again, it's 430 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,719 Speaker 1: a non partisan federal statistical agency, which is the only 431 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: reason that I was willing to join. Because the notion 432 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: of scientific integrity objectivity is something and transparency not many 433 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: organizations want to reveal, like the good and the bad 434 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: and the ugly about everything we do. We put that 435 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: up front because that's part of our job that the 436 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: American people deserve to hear and to see the strengths 437 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: and limitations of all of our data products. And it's 438 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: because of that scientific integrity and our non partisan nature 439 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: that I think we have a really good starting point 440 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: to take wherever we are right now and move forward 441 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: and create really great ties to communities and great things. 442 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,239 Speaker 1: And That's what I'm going to be doing, and I 443 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: know that that's what the rest of the Census Spirit 444 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: is going to be doing as well. 445 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 2: Your excitement about being at the Census is clear, like 446 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: we can feel it. We absolutely can feel it. I 447 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 2: can see it. So I want to zoom out for 448 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 2: a bit because when I think about the senses, I 449 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 2: think the other word that comes to mind is white 450 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 2: supremacy and systemic racism, and how that is a part 451 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 2: of the institution. We have to acknowledge how people in 452 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 2: this country were first counted, right, Enslaved black people were 453 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 2: basically counted only as three fifths of a human being, 454 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: and areas with large enslaved populations benefited from this in 455 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 2: terms of federal funding and political power and representation. So 456 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 2: again your excitement to be at the census, But the 457 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: question I'm going to ask you is, well, should the 458 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 2: sense be dismantled? Should it be reassembled? How do we 459 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 2: deal with the fact that, you know, close to four 460 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 2: out of the five senior executives at the bureau identify 461 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: as white according to an NPR study from last year. 462 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 2: So you're dealing with your big dreams and a powerful institution, 463 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 2: but one that has, in this case issues of white supremacy. 464 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: Well, I think that you know, pundits and others can 465 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: characterize the Census Bureau as they might. I do know 466 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: that because of things like the pandemic, we are at 467 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: a wonderful inflection point where we understand the value of diversity, 468 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: equity and inclusion, and everyone I've spoken to wants to 469 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: make progress in this regard, including myself. I think that 470 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: it's it would be naive to think that any government 471 00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: or any society does not have issues with them with 472 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: regard to historical you know, racism and things of that sort. 473 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: But in terms of where we go from now, by 474 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: leveraging this diversity, equity and inclusion principles, we are recognizing 475 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: the value not only for creating a more diverse workforce 476 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: within the Census Bureau, but also questioning every single thing 477 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: we do with regard to what we measure, how we 478 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: measure it, how relevant it is, and not only that 479 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: when we produce it, how valuable it is, based on 480 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: community engagement and getting folks reaction to results and things 481 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: of that sort. So I'm very much you know, I 482 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: am absolutely not a Pollyanna. I absolutely know that issues 483 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: exist and they are cultural and they are baked into society. 484 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean we cannot don't have an obligation 485 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: to try. That's what I'm doing that's what we all 486 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: have to do, and we have to do it together 487 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: and we need each other's support. 488 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 2: Director Santos, forgive me that I should know the answer 489 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 2: to this question, but I don't. Has the Census apologized 490 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 2: for the fact that the data from the census was 491 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: used to enter, ie imprison American citizens of Japanese descent, 492 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: and that they were targeted because of the use of 493 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 2: the census data. Has there been a formal apology that 494 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: I just didn't know about. 495 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for asking. That's a really really important question. 496 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: Can crew it actually years back apologized formally to representatives 497 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: of the Japanese community. 498 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 2: So how do we because you know this as well 499 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 2: in our community, especially after the last administration, the previous 500 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 2: administration in particular Latinos and Latinas and building this trust 501 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 2: and immigrants and refugees, undocumented people, how do you rebuild 502 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 2: the trust? And I know, oh, I get the whole 503 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 2: Like we are the Census, we are you, But I 504 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 2: mean you also deal with hard facts. You also want 505 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: to deal with the humanizing of it. How do you 506 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,719 Speaker 2: create trust in an institution that is so large and 507 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 2: that has this past history And I know you want 508 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 2: to look at the future. So in the future, how 509 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 2: do you want to create. 510 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: Sure and we are already taking steps in that direction. 511 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: It is critical that we engage with the public with 512 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: we engage in local communities. We engage with people of 513 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: color and communities of color in their various manifestations, whether 514 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: it's through with Non Leyo or a maldef or the 515 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: Asian American associations that look out for those interests. It's 516 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: really important to have those types of conversations that are continuous, 517 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: and it's through having those conversations and demonstrating that their 518 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: concerns matter by incorporating those into actions we take in 519 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: the future. Through that loop and through us demonstrating with 520 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: hard data that we can we can help their communities 521 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: and all communities, I think we will build build trust. 522 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 2: And what are we going to do or what are 523 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 2: you going to do with the fact that there's an 524 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 2: acknowledgment of a pretty severe undercount that happened, particularly in 525 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 2: black Latino Latino LATINX communities. What's your plan? You again, 526 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 2: if you're like, well, we can't deal with what happened 527 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 2: in the past, that's already happened, But then what is 528 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 2: the plan? Like a very specific plan. 529 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: Yes, and we're in the midst of forming plans for 530 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: the twenty thirty census. But please be aware that the 531 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: plans for increasing participation and representation in the data collections 532 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: that we do are spread to all of the one 533 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty or so surveys that we do every year, 534 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: as well as our economic censuses that are coming up. 535 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: And Latinos and African Americans have local businesses and such, 536 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: so we're looking to to do that. 537 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 2: So again, I love the fact that I have these 538 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 2: very specific reactions about the census when every year, every decade, 539 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 2: you know, when I have to deal with this, but 540 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 2: the term Hispanic, the term Latino, Latina, LATINX, you know, 541 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 2: Afro Latini, that indigenous cells. I mean, I every time 542 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 2: I look at the census, I'm like, but I'm not here. 543 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 2: I don't feel I like, I don't the boxes, which box, 544 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 2: which checking of the box. I'm sure you felt this 545 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 2: way too, So what's your plan to kind of make 546 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 2: the senses like read the room, understand the United States 547 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 2: and it's actually living in Because it feels like it's 548 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 2: the census again of the white men from the nineteen 549 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: fifties that were kind of creating the paradigms, and the 550 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 2: paradig times have all shifted. 551 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: That is a wonderful starting point for this notion that 552 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: society has tangibly changed over the last twenty thirty forty years, 553 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: where people are understanding and embracing different cultures and ancestries, 554 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: and an organization like the Census Bureau and more broadly, 555 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: the federal statistical system, because there's lots of other groups 556 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: in the federal government that collect data, need to understand 557 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: and be contemporary with the way that people identify themselves 558 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 1: and our notions of who we are, especially with multi 559 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: race couples and children and multi ethnic couples and children. 560 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,240 Speaker 1: People are just becoming more aware of who they are, 561 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: and when they do that, they think of themselves differently, 562 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: and so using standards like the ones we currently have 563 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: that we're developed in nineteen ninety seven aren't necessarily the 564 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: best ones to capture the rich diversity of our. 565 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 3: Wonderful population right now. 566 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: We are at the Census Bureau don't have the authority 567 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: to simply change race ethnicity questions. It needs to go 568 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: through a process by the federal government to update the standards, 569 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: and we are actively working with the Office of Management 570 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: and Budget, which is part of the White House. They're 571 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 1: the group that creates and revises standards, and our understanding 572 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: is that that process with regard to ethnicity as well 573 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:39,240 Speaker 1: as with regard to sojiate questions, sexual orientation, and gender identity, well, 574 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: those discussions will be commencing soon, and we have existing 575 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: research that we've already done as well as ideas on 576 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: how to go forward to better capture that rich diversity 577 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: and the disaggregation of Latinos, disaggregation of whites, disaggregation African Americans, Asians, 578 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: tribal communities, and so forth. 579 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 2: I remember when I started hearing that term disaggregation, So 580 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 2: just so people get it, can you just define what 581 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 2: disaggregation means? Because I think while you're the head of 582 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 2: the census, people will be hearing that murd a lot more. 583 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, forgive me. 584 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: I like to pride myself as being someone who can 585 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: speak more. 586 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 3: To the public. 587 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: But then I throw out, I bust out the term 588 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: disaggregation and oh, it's obviously it's a it's an industry term. 589 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: Disaggregation really is very basic. Latinos are not a monolithic population. 590 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: We're luck together as a group of different groups of 591 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: a set of peoples. They're Kubanos, you know, folks from 592 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: Dominican Mexicans, even you know, Central and South America and 593 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: so forth in Puerto Ricans. And it's important to be 594 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: able to understand those differences because different communities can have 595 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: different mixes of a specific type of Latino. Not to mention, 596 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: you bring in immigrant status as well, and that will 597 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: trigger notions of what types of community needs there are. 598 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 1: How to better address issues like, you know, how do 599 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,399 Speaker 1: we convince folks to take vaccines, how do we get 600 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: folks to register to vote? How do we get folks 601 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: to understand the value of fruits and vegetables for a 602 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: more nutritious meal, even though they may not have a 603 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: libapal wage, you know, to buy those types of products. 604 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: So we really need to understand the rich diversity, and 605 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: that's what de segregation means. 606 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 2: I think part of what you're trying to do is, 607 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 2: as you say, you want you and your whole staff 608 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 2: to bring their entire selves into the Census Bureau because 609 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 2: that ultimately will lead to a better Census bureau. You 610 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 2: have actually and you talk a lot about equity and inclusion, 611 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 2: and you've actually taken some steps. So what are you 612 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 2: doing in terms of your own staff and that diversity 613 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 2: representation and inclusion. 614 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: Well, on the staff that I work with directly, there 615 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: is actually an incredibly rich diversity of Latinos, of African Americans, 616 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 1: of white individuals. 617 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 3: From different backgrounds. 618 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: We have efforts to transform and modernize the Census Bureau 619 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: because we absolutely need it in order to survive in 620 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: the future. And part of that is making sure that 621 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: we do things like review all of our policies and 622 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: practices for two things. One is to make sure they 623 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 1: are equitable, and my guess is that most, if not all, 624 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: will end up being equitable. We've got to do our 625 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: due diligence. And the second is the practice. It's policies 626 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: and practice. You can have an equitable policy, if it's 627 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: not implemented in the right way, you may as well 628 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:05,280 Speaker 1: not have the policy. 629 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 3: You know. 630 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:11,720 Speaker 1: Altogether, we're also looking in a very honed way at 631 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: assembling data from different sources in ways that can facilitate 632 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 1: a better understanding of community from an equity lens. 633 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 2: All right, Well, you've been able to tell us a 634 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 2: lot about you know, kind of your work right now, 635 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 2: but we do know that you'll there will be a 636 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 2: finite period of time in which you serve as the 637 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 2: director of the Senses. And I can tell, with all 638 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 2: due respect that you're a little bit of a nerd 639 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 2: am I right? 640 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 3: Yes, I confess. 641 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 2: So what do you want the legacy? Your legacy? You're 642 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 2: the first Latino to lead the Senses, You're the first 643 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 2: man with a ponytail that we know of in the 644 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 2: modern ages. So what do you want your legacy to be? 645 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: It's interesting people keep asking me that, and I keep 646 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,360 Speaker 1: telling them I am not that type of leader. I 647 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 1: don't I don't want to leave the Census Bureau, And 648 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: folks say, well, Rob did X, Rob did Y, and 649 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: Rob did C. I would much rather because of who 650 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: I am and my belief in how I lead to 651 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: enable all kinds of staff to do great things and 652 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: then to help them find the resources to be innovative, 653 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,359 Speaker 1: to tangibly demonstrate what it means to live in an 654 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: equitable work environment. So my legacy, if you look at 655 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: it from the in that sense, isn't going to be 656 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 1: an accomplishment as much as a driver to allow people 657 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 1: to become excellent. In the context of diversity, equity, and inclusion, 658 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: and that's what my legacy. I want my legacy to be. 659 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: I helped people do their job better well. 660 00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 2: Director Robert Roberto Santos, thank you so much for joining 661 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:02,400 Speaker 2: me on Latino USA. 662 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: It was an absolute honor, Maria, and thank you very 663 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: much for this opportunity to let folks know who I am. 664 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,760 Speaker 2: Since my conversation with Director Santos, the White House Office 665 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 2: of Management and Budget announced that it has started a 666 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 2: formal review in order to revise the race and Ethnicity classifications. 667 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 2: It uses these to collect data across federal agencies to 668 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 2: quote better reflect the diversity of the American people end quote. 669 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:42,360 Speaker 2: These classifications have not been revised since nineteen ninety seven. 670 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Renaldo Leanos Junior. It was 671 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 2: mixed by Stephanie Lebou and Julia Caruso. The Latino USA 672 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 2: team includes Victori Estrada, Andrea Lopez Brusavo, Dori mar Marquez, 673 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 2: Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Nor Saudi, and Nancy Drujuigo. Benny 674 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 2: les Amidez is our co executive producer. Our marketing manager 675 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,320 Speaker 2: is Luis Duna. Our theme music was composed by Saniel 676 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,879 Speaker 2: Roubinos I'm your host and executive producer Maria Rojosa join 677 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 2: us again on our next episode. In the meantime, I'll 678 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 2: see you on social media by te Ba Yas. 679 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 3: Latino USA is supported by the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, the 680 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,760 Speaker 3: Tao Foundation, and Michelle Mercer and Bruce Golden. 681 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,720 Speaker 2: And by the way, I hear you're a big griller 682 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,799 Speaker 2: and you love to barbecue, and I'm like, Okay, I 683 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 2: want to be invited to that barbecue. Director Santos, Okay, 684 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 2: that's the barbecue. I want to be invited to. Yours, 685 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 2: your invitation the hand, San Antonio Barbecue. But anyway,