1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is and Samantha and whatcome to stuff? I 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: never told you a prediction of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: And y'all were back on our again, meaning yes, we're 4 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: talking more trauma related reactions or diagnosis, and this time 5 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: we're coming back coming with maladaptive daydreaming or m D 6 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: as they are like giving those initials for it, and 7 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: yes this is I don't know, I guess I'll have 8 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: a whole We should do a small playlist of all 9 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 2: of like the mental health and trauma things that I 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 2: have brought in or we have brought in from Like 11 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: oh yeah, that sounds like me. Oh why yeah, I 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 2: gotta call me out like that social media because we 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: talk a lot about different types of diagnosis or disorders 14 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: or even just like responses trauma responses to different things 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 2: that may not triggered us or things that we did 16 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 2: not realize could be a learned behavior. And I think 17 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 2: it's fascinating. Again, this comes back from my background in 18 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: social work and doing a lot of this type of work, 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 2: because you know, mental health and social work go hand 20 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: in hand. Especially we know a lot of lcsw's are 21 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 2: now counselors. But with all of that, yes, this is 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: what I love to do, and this is something that 23 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: I thought was fascinating because I don't think this is 24 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: necessarily me but I have seen this reaction, and surprisingly, 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: I will say, I have not seen too much saying 26 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: this is related specifically more to women. Although when I 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: was looking at the amount of diagnosis for women, what 28 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: are women most likely diagnosed with and who has the 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: higher diagnoses for different types of disorders? Women do hit 30 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 2: anxiety and depression obviously in PTSD at a higher mark men, 31 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: according to much of the research that I've seen, as 32 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: in fact, there's been an overwhelming like in the last year. 33 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: And I do want to come back to this because 34 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: I think it's fascinating a call and high alert to 35 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: let people know and let professionals know, Hey, women are 36 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 2: being diagnosed alarmingly, like, way higher than they have been 37 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: in years for things like depression, anxiety and PTSD and 38 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 2: all of that, and we need to look at why. 39 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: I have a feeling it may have something to do 40 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 2: with our social structure. I do as well, but I'm 41 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: gonna leave it at that. But like, hey, we got 42 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: one victory, but the Supreme Court did straight down the 43 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: ban for MiFi pristone and holy yay. I was actually 44 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: shot that it was unanimous. 45 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I too. 46 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: I hope they understood. The questioning was pretty intense, and 47 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 2: I think they knew what they were looking at, being 48 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: like side eye, what are you doing? Because even though yes, 49 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: it is a part of abortion pill, it's also been 50 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: around for other things. You've talked about this completely. We've 51 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: talked about this in our book and why it's important 52 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 2: and it's absurd because they want to be jerks, that's 53 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: how I put it. But with all of that, I'm 54 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: wondering if some of these diagnoses that have happened as 55 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: of recently, or maybe just that more women are realizing 56 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 2: that they do need help and they're tired of being 57 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: gas lit by so many people saying that you're just sad, 58 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: suck it up, and so actually going to seek help. 59 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 2: So there's so many things that so many of us 60 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: have decided, Ay, we actually do care about our health 61 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: and there is something wrong, So let's talk about this, 62 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: and whether it's like counseling or actual like medication, or 63 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: it's for sometimes you just need prescription for time off, 64 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: like an actual mental health day that we've been promised 65 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: for so many years as oftentimes ridiculed. But anyway, so 66 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: with that, I do want to come and talk about that. 67 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 2: But today we are talking about maladaptive daydreaming again MD, 68 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: and according to Sleep Foundation dot org, it is quote 69 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: sometimes known as a daydreaming disorder. Maladaptive daydreaming describes a 70 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: condition where a person regularly experiences daydreams that are intense 71 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: and highly distracting, so distracting in fact, that the person 72 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 2: may stop engaging with the task or people in front 73 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 2: of them. These daydreams may be triggered by real life 74 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 2: events or stimuli such as noise, smell, conversation, topic, or movie. 75 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: So this is very descriptive about what it is, and 76 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: we're going to get a little more into it. We're 77 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: not talking about day dreaming. I do have that question 78 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 2: because I know we've all done this. We've all done 79 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 2: this while we were driving, having our own thought process 80 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: and then realizing, holy crap, how did I end up here? 81 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 2: How did I make it home? Because I don't remember 82 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: the last ten minutes of my driving. Like I know, 83 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: we've all done that. There is a difference between daydreaming 84 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: and just being distracted versus maladaptive daydreaming, and we want 85 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: to make sure that we're going to understand that a 86 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: little better. In our short segment on Monday, minis yes again. 87 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: I do want to say that I did not find 88 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: too much information about it being gendered other than that 89 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: the original research for this diagnosis and for this term 90 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 2: when they ask for volunteers, and I believe it was 91 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: mainly through social media that they were trying to get 92 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: contacts from people to test them and to kind of 93 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: have that random subject. A lot of it turned out 94 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 2: to be women who came back with actual examples, so 95 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: they were kind of like, is it because of how 96 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: we researched it, or is it because women are more 97 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 2: likely to suffer from my adaptive daydreaming. They also talk 98 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: about marginalized individuals such as the trans community as well, 99 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: talking about whether it is actually because they are more 100 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: aware and they're more willing to be a part of 101 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 2: this project, or is it because of the actual trauma 102 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: that they have gone through that this is that defense mechanism. 103 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: So there seems to be a lot of questions. I know, 104 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: there's a lot of testing, and honestly, in the last 105 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 2: two years it really got a big bang in big 106 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 2: poll thanks to social media. So more and more people 107 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: are talking about it, and I think more and more 108 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 2: people are actually researching it. So with that, according to 109 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: the National Library of Medicine for the National Center of 110 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: Biotechnology of Information, they say, maladaptive daydreaming MD is a 111 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: proposed mental disorder characterized by excessive compulsive immersion in vivid 112 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:20,799 Speaker 2: and complex, fantastical daydream plots, generating intense emotional involvement, often 113 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: accompanied by stereotypical movements. This addictive absorption in daydreaming becomes 114 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: maladaptive as it consumes many hours a day, generate shame 115 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: or guilt, hinders achievement of short and long term goals 116 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: or tasks, and overall causes clinically significant distress and or 117 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: interferes with functioning in society or occupational realms. So I 118 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 2: definitely have friends who were a part of who would 119 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: disappear in their bedroom for hours at a time, and 120 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: I'd ask what they're doing, and literally they're just sitting 121 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: in there, and they don't tell me that they're daydreaming. 122 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: But I'm wondering, perhaps that's what was happening, because weren't 123 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: necessarily reading, They weren't necessarily you know, like they were 124 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: just in there I have been caught embarrassing moment for 125 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: me where I am like spewing conversations to myself in 126 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: a bedroom like by myself for like thirty minutes to 127 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: an hour of time, and I been asked, who are 128 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: you talking to? Have you ever had those moments there? 129 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: No, it's me. So this is interesting because again, a 130 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: lot of times when we like split up the research, 131 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: I don't know what Samantha the topic will be that 132 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: Samantha's bringing And I have said before and it is 133 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: still true. One of my very favorite things to do 134 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: is in that moment when you wake up and it's 135 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: too early to get up, is I daydream. But it's 136 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: never been like I'm in front of a person like 137 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: it doesn't feel it feels. 138 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: More like you set a time, set a time for it. 139 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I'm in bed and I'm not going to 140 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: get up, so I'm just going to daydream. So I'm 141 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: interested to see if at the end of this, I'm 142 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: gonna be like, oh no, I've got an issue. 143 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: But it's never been like. 144 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: I'm talking to a person or I feel like it's 145 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: impacting my job or something like that. 146 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: Right, And that's part of the conversation, so it continues. 147 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: Maladaptive daydreamers md ers report a strong urge to daydream 148 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: whenever they can, an annoyance whenever they cannot, and repeated 149 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: unsuccessful efforts to control, cutback, or stop daydreaming. Like other 150 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: behavioral addictions, negative emotions follow their daily daydreaming activity. However, 151 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 2: mental health practitioners are often disparaging of the problem, resulting 152 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: in suboptimal treatment and heightened loneliness and distress. And yeah, 153 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 2: in just in case you're wondering if this applies to you, 154 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: they compare the norm versus MD, they say. Importantly, different 155 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: types of mental states in which one does not focus 156 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: on the present may be associated with psychological difficulties such 157 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 2: as rumination, worry, thinking about the past or future, or 158 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: mind wondering. However, MD is essentially different than normal daydreaming 159 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: and mind wandering, defined quite broadly as internally generated or 160 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: off task thought. Widespread daydreaming or mind wandering is often 161 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 2: a spontaneous divergence from a present task in favor of 162 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: past or future recollections, such as activating a memory or 163 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 2: thinking about ones to do lists for the rest of 164 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: the day. Self report mind wandering items span inattention and 165 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 2: concentration difficulties, a scattered line of thought making mistakes due 166 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: to automatic behavior and obliviousness to surroundings. On the contrary, 167 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: MD is characterized by inventing rich, fantastical plots and stories 168 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 2: with a dynamic emotional range that are often unrealistic and 169 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: distant from the day dreamer's actual life. Moreover, they are 170 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: usually continuously evolving over long periods of time, like a 171 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: soap opera, which is very different than the somewhat random, 172 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 2: fickle contents of common mind wondering NMD. Individuals feel compelled 173 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: to continue their fantasy like many people would feel about 174 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 2: watching their favorite show on TV, and many report that 175 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: they initiate the MD episode with awareness and intent. 176 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: I did do that, and I have talked about that 177 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: on a previous podcast. When I was in middle school, 178 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: I had a dream and I could like initiate it 179 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: and it was ongoing, and I would treat it like 180 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: a TV show, like I didn't know what was going 181 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: to happen. I but it still was like when I 182 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: was sleeping, right, it was still like a not happening 183 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: during the day. Yeah, that did ring pretty true. 184 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: How many us There's a bit more information from wondermind 185 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 2: dot com. Daydreaming actually exists on a spectrum. On one end, 186 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 2: you have the mind wandering type of daydreaming, which is brief, typical, 187 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 2: mundane and subject matter and doesn't impair functioning in any way, 188 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 2: says Ali Sommer, a PhD, a clinical psychologist and maladaptive 189 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: daydreaming researcher specializing in trauma and disassociative disorders. On the 190 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 2: opposite end of the spectrum, you have maladaptive daydreaming, a 191 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: term coined by doctor Summer himself in a two thousand 192 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 2: and two qualitative study of six patients in his practice, 193 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 2: where he describes it as quote extensive fantasy activity that 194 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: replaces human interaction and or interferes with academic, interpersonal, or 195 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: vocational functioning. In fact, there will be a clear immersive 196 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 2: visual sounds and emotional elements, so that they are way 197 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 2: more intense than the run of the mill day dreams 198 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: and typically include elaborate storylines that continue over time. He adds, 199 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 2: so basically, it's when you daydream so vividly and frequently 200 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: that it negatively impacts your life. So you have I 201 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: don't think you would be maledaptive daydreaming, but you are 202 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: intensely daydreaming because you don't allow it to actually take 203 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 2: over your daily life, like you're not annoyed that you 204 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: have to do something instead of being able to daydream. However, 205 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: you are very intensely So I'm assuming with everything else 206 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: and diagnosis, it would be a spectrum if it so again. 207 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 2: And I wanted to put this out because I the 208 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 2: research I'm looking into, I can't tell if it's actually 209 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: been proposed to put into the d S and five 210 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 2: as an actual disorder, and I think that's where it is. 211 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 2: Social workers, psychologists, researchers out there. Let me know if 212 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 2: I'm all off on this, but I think they have 213 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 2: proposed it but has not especially been submitted and or 214 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: admitted into the DSM five. But people do recognize it 215 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: in the community, so they may not say it's a disorder, 216 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: they might not actually say that out loud, but they 217 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: have seen it and they know that it exists. And 218 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: then there are those who do feel very strongly that 219 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 2: it should be added to the d S and five 220 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: because it can be an impairment, and they've even talked 221 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,479 Speaker 2: about how it could be a comorbidity to other diagnosis. 222 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: But before we jump into that, here's some actual symptoms. 223 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: According to healthline dot com, a person with maladaptive daydreaming 224 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 2: make experience one or more of the following extremely vivid 225 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: daydreams with their own characters, settings, plots, and other detailed 226 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 2: storyline features, reflecting a complex inner world daydreams triggered by 227 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 2: real life events. Difficulty completing everyday tasks, difficulty sleeping at night, 228 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 2: an overwhelming desire to continue daydreaming, performing repetitive movements, wild daydreaming, 229 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: making facial expressions, wild daydreaming, whispering and talking wild daydreaming, 230 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: daydreaming for lengthy periods up to several hours. Significant distress 231 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 2: about daydreaming, awareness that the internal fantasy world is different 232 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 2: from the external reality. And I feel like the awareness 233 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: part should be a good thing. Should yeah. 234 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: I feel again, as someone who is connecting to a 235 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: lot of this pretty hard, I feel like the difference 236 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 1: would be would be, Hey, this is my daydream, this 237 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: is reality. 238 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: I can't daydream all the time. 239 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: I will tell you, like, sometimes when I'm working, I'll 240 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: get like the poll, but I don't do it. Are Like, 241 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: I don't doesn't stop by. It's more of like Oh, 242 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: I wish I could do that right now, but I can't. 243 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: So it sounds like more of the compulsion or the 244 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: control of it, right, So I do think like recognizing 245 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: the difference is a good thing. It sounds like a 246 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: really good thing. 247 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: It's also part of the diagnosis, apparently, and there are 248 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: likelihoods that maladaptive daydreaming is a comorbidity to other diagnoses, 249 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 2: including ADHD, OCD, borderline personality disorder PTSD, and many more. 250 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: And here's a quote from that Helpline article talking about ADHD. 251 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: MD Experts have found the links between maladaptive daydreaming and ADHD. 252 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: A twenty seventeen study looked at thirty nine people with 253 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: maladaptive daydreaming. Almost seventy seven percent of the participants had 254 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: both maladaptive daydreaming and ADHD. So I've never really think 255 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think I have ADHD. I think I'm 256 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 2: very easily distracted though, so like and I'm also maybe 257 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: I do. Maybe I'm in denial because I'm like, I 258 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: don't have all the other factors except for when it 259 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: comes to actually working, and I'll do everything but work, 260 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 2: and that includes daydreaming. I will say that like about 261 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: possibilities of our podcast or our episodes, whether it's me 262 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 2: thinking about it or more than me talking through it 263 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 2: as if like this is going to be amazing, or 264 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: interviewing talking about it. I feel like I'm calling myself 265 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: out a lot in this episode anyway. And then from 266 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,359 Speaker 2: the Guardian article written in twenty twenty two, they write, intriguingly, 267 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 2: maladaptive daydreaming seems to be far more common among people 268 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: who have been diagnosed with attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder, 269 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: with a recent paper reporting a prevalence of about twenty percent. 270 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: Moreover seventy seven percent of people with maladaptive daydreaming have 271 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: been diagnosed with ADHD. The constant desire to slip into 272 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: day dreams. It seems it's contributing to difficulties and concentration 273 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: and focus, and this group may require differing different forms 274 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 2: of treatment from other people with ADHD, so they're saying 275 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: that they need to approach it differently, which again maybe 276 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: why they want this diagnosis so much, or a disorder 277 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: placed in the DS and five because they'll be able 278 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: to have a conversation about what that treatment looks like. 279 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: And from several of the articles, including research articles. They 280 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 2: talk about using OCD type of treatments for maladaptive daydreaming 281 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: and whether or not it's been successful. I think it's 282 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: a little early to tell. They also have an actual 283 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: questionnaire for you to find your own spectrum. So this 284 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: is with Sohmer and his researching team. It says in 285 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: the actual scale, the sixteen item maladaptive Dreaming scale in 286 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 2: DS sixteen, that's what it's called. In answering the following questions, 287 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 2: please refer to your daydream activities in the last month, 288 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 2: if not otherwise specified, choose the option that best fits you. 289 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,959 Speaker 2: So they give you that zero to one hundred percent 290 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: zero being never to one hundred percent being extremely frequent 291 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 2: with sixteen questions, and based on that they give you 292 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: this diagnosis. I'm not really sure how verified. I mean, 293 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: I don't know if that's just like how they tested 294 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 2: for themselves for their research because this was from the 295 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: original research team versus like, yes, this is effective. So 296 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 2: like one of the questions is, some people notice that 297 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: certain music can trigger their daydreaming. To what extent does 298 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 2: music activate your daydreaming? So you would have that scale. 299 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: Another question is if you go through a period of 300 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: time when you're not able to daydream as much as 301 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: usual due to real world obligations. How distressed are you 302 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 2: by your inability to find time to daydream? So they're 303 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: talking about the level, like what does it cause you 304 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 2: some people experience difficulties in controlling or limiting their daydream 305 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 2: How difficult has it been for you to keep your 306 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: daydreaming under control? So, like they have all this questions 307 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 2: on here. Oh, it says how often are your current 308 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: daydreams accompanied by physical activity such as pacing, swinging, or 309 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 2: shaking your hands? And I found that interesting because they're 310 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 2: like this whole conversation really well, It's like one of 311 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 2: the videos I saw was a woman talking about she 312 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 2: was on her walking machine and she was in her 313 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: own mind daydreaming. But in that day dream, she ended 314 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: up being on that thing for like three hours or 315 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 2: something like she was it was an extensive amount of 316 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: time without her realizing, which I'm might, No, I know, 317 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 2: when I'm doing physical activity, I don't. I don't like it. 318 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 2: I wish I could zone out like that. But like 319 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 2: it found it interesting that people really did have those 320 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 2: moments with this. And again, like I said, the more 321 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 2: content that I'm looking at and maybe it's because one 322 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 2: of the FYP I'm on, the research that I'm on 323 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: it is based on a lot of examples on women 324 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 2: and or people who are in that type of community, 325 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: and it again may have everything to do with who 326 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: is more willing to take these tests, who are being 327 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 2: found through social media? Was their FYP? All these different things, 328 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: But it was a pretty fascinating conversation and again, like 329 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: what type of diagnosis this would be so new for 330 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 2: D S and five? Is it necessary? And it would 331 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 2: like explain so much for people because I know the 332 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 2: one thing about the shame part about like feeling guilty 333 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 2: for being an adult that daydreams about things when I 334 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 2: should be like locked into reality and following my responsibility, 335 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 2: that this has maybe been underdiagnosed or ignored for so 336 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 2: long and shamed for so long that many people don't 337 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 2: even want to look at it as a possible. Oh 338 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 2: this is maybe a mental health issue. 339 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think there's a lot we could 340 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: come back and talk about with all of this. Yes, 341 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: because it is. It just makes sense to me if 342 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 1: you've gone through any kind of trauma or anything like that, 343 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: that you would have this thing right that you went to. 344 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 2: I also want to know how many authors and fend 345 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: from writers would be dised with this. 346 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about my own thing, and I'm like, this 347 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: is where I get a lot of my good ideas, 348 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: and you're telling me it's bad. 349 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 2: But it can be disruptive to some people. 350 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, we should. We should come back, We 351 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: should come back. I'm always worried I'll get to the 352 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: end of one of these episodes, Samanth, and you'll be like, 353 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: and this is you. 354 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 2: I mean that maybe feel like this is us. 355 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Well, listeners, if you have any thoughts 356 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: about this or any resources. 357 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: Please let us know. 358 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: You can emails at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeartMedia 359 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom 360 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff Never 361 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: Told You. 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