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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Thanksgiving, a beautiful young fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old girl goes to deliver a birthday card to

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Speaker 1: her friend as she has never seen alive again. Needless

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Speaker 1: to say, we want justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Wendy just fourteen years old. Now, think about it. Think

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Speaker 1: about it. When I prosecuted cases, it was and still

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Speaker 1: is the law that you, the prosecutor, may not ask

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Speaker 1: the jury to place themselves in the shoes of the

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Speaker 1: victim or the victim's family. But luckily those rules of

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Speaker 1: evidence are not binding me right now. And I want

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Speaker 1: you to think, place yourself, if you dare to do it,

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Speaker 1: in the shoes of the mother and dad that are

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Speaker 1: waiting for their fourteen year old girl, Wendy to come home.

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Speaker 1: This little girl just one year older than my little

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Speaker 1: girl Lucy and my big boy John David. I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine them not coming home from something so simple as

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Speaker 1: dropping off a birthday card. But that is what happened,

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Speaker 1: and this is the story. Take a listen to this

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Speaker 1: from what we can get there now. She left the

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Speaker 1: friend's house round seven thirty at night in rude home

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Speaker 1: and she never made it home. And about twenty minutes

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Speaker 1: after her Boddy was found, she was reported missing by

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Speaker 1: her parents. She'd been returning home from a visit with

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Speaker 1: friends Thanksgiving night when she was murdered. Jerome had been beaten, raped,

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Speaker 1: and slashed. Her body dumped in the courtyard of school

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Speaker 1: Number thirty three, just blocks from her home. Police have

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Speaker 1: question one suspect in this case so far. On the

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Speaker 1: night of the murder, detectives picked up a man near

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Speaker 1: the school who was covered with blood, but after hours

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Speaker 1: of grilling, the man's story rang true. He'd been assaulted

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Speaker 1: and the blood on the clothing was his own. What

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Speaker 1: a letdown, police think at the get go, they've immediately

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Speaker 1: solved the murder all fourteen year old Wendy, but that

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Speaker 1: was not the case. Let me introduce to you an

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Speaker 1: all star panel. And when I say all star, I

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Speaker 1: really mean it. First of all, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: author of Red Flags and host of Live would doctor

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Speaker 1: Wendy on kb Q at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com.

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Speaker 1: Got to get that PhD in there, Wendy, Workee Girl.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall renounced psychoanalyst to the stars, joining me

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Speaker 1: from Beverly Hills. Of course, she's at Doctor Bethany Marshall

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Speaker 1: dot com. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood

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Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon now the star of a

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Speaker 1: hit series on True Crime Network called Poisonous. Liaison's new

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Speaker 1: guests Joining us today, Doctor Pamela Marshall from Decane University,

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Speaker 1: Director and Associate Professor of the Bear School of Natural

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Speaker 1: Environmental Sciences, Forensics, Science and Law master's program That's not easy.

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Speaker 1: Expert in DNA interpretation. Newsday reporter, you know his name, well,

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Speaker 1: Tony DeStefano and very special guests joining me. Longtime colleague

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Speaker 1: now friend Phil Va Toronto. You know his name, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Phil and Kathy the parents of the so

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Speaker 1: called Long Island jogger Carina Thea, Toronto. But first of all,

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Speaker 1: I want to go to Tony to Stephano. Tony joining me,

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Speaker 1: Newsday reporter, tell me about what we just heard from

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Speaker 1: Anne Spurling at News A w RC. We're hearing about

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Speaker 1: how this fourteen year old girl goes out to deliver

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Speaker 1: a birthday card and by the time her parents report

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Speaker 1: her missing a couple of hours later, she was already dead.

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Speaker 1: Well that's true. It was Thanksgiving Day of nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: four and Wendy goes to deliver a birthday card. As

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Speaker 1: you said, I never made it back. She had a curfew,

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Speaker 1: and of course never made it back in time for

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Speaker 1: that curfew. She was found by it umpster in a

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Speaker 1: schoolyard area Jason to a schoolyard not far from her home,

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Speaker 1: and she had been severely beaten and there were obvious

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Speaker 1: signs of sexual traveler. This case, you know, shocked and Rochester,

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Speaker 1: New York, and it stayed. You know, it became a

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Speaker 1: quest to find the killer. But this was not something

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Speaker 1: that was going to come easily. Now, it really was not.

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Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. Tony de Stephano, tell me

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Speaker 1: about Rochester. I know a fair bit from living in

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Speaker 1: New York City for so long. My sister lived with

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Speaker 1: her family in Mount Kissco For a while. Tell me

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Speaker 1: about Rochester. Rochester is you know, major upstate New York City.

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Speaker 1: Used to be home to kodak uh, you know, the

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Speaker 1: camera and film people, and maybe may still be for

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Speaker 1: all I know. It's on the shores of the lake

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Speaker 1: and it's you know, a town that's gone through some changes.

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Speaker 1: But it's a substantial metropolitan area for upstate New York, Rochester, Buffalo,

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Speaker 1: that sort of quadrant. So it's not an insignificant place.

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Speaker 1: It's not like the country or farm land. Do people

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Speaker 1: commute in and out of New York Well, they don't know.

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Speaker 1: Well you can, In fact, I did it once. It's

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Speaker 1: like forty five minutes by plane. But normally you don't.

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Speaker 1: Normally you don't. It's it gets a lot of its

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Speaker 1: own internal commuter traffic from the suburbs around Rochester, but

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Speaker 1: it's not really a place where they're come into New

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Speaker 1: York City. Got a question for you, isn't that where

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Speaker 1: the Dick Van Dyke Show was supposed to be set

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Speaker 1: in Rochester? Now you're you're you're gonna show my ignorance

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Speaker 1: of popular TV culture. I'm gonna investigate. I'm gonna investigate

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Speaker 1: that immediately. I'm gonna put a crack in investigator on it. Brett,

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Speaker 1: that's you, because I think that it is and it

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Speaker 1: was portrayed. Is this idyllic community almost like a bedroom

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Speaker 1: a sleeper community of Manhattan. I don't think geographically that's correct,

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Speaker 1: but the way people think of it is like that.

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Speaker 1: Now it's taken on a whole new significance. This girl's

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Speaker 1: body was found just blocks away from her own home

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Speaker 1: beside a dumpster, a dumpster, and to you, doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: it reminds me of a couple of cases in the

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Speaker 1: past where I've referred to the way a killer disposed

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Speaker 1: of a body as if it were trash. And I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking specifically of Nicole Lovell, the little girl she was thirteen,

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Speaker 1: that was lured out of her home that by a

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Speaker 1: engineering student at Virginia Tech, David Eisenhower and his freaky sidekick,

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Speaker 1: Nicole Keepers, both engineering students, that lured her away from

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Speaker 1: her home and threw her off by the side of

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Speaker 1: the road like she was trash. And this dumpster thing

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Speaker 1: really sticks in my mind, Doctor Bethany, what does it

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Speaker 1: tell you, Nancy? Do you remember Chanelle she Nixon? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I do, I certainly do. Right, she was taken from

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Speaker 1: her apartment, or was rape beaten, tortured and straangled, all

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Speaker 1: of that, and was literally put in a trash can,

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Speaker 1: just like this victim. What it tells me is that

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator had such little thought about the victim. The

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Speaker 1: victim was an it or a thing, or there was

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Speaker 1: no value to human life other than the momentary pleasure

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Speaker 1: of whatever the perpetrator wanted to do with this young woman.

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Speaker 1: The idea that she had parent, siblings, friends, she was

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Speaker 1: carrying a birthday card, she had come from a friend's house,

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Speaker 1: that she was in her neighborhood, her community, that she

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Speaker 1: was only fourteen years old, was completely inconsequential to the perpetrator.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, we are talking about a

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Speaker 1: beautiful young girl whose name I have not forgotten, Wendy Jerome.

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Speaker 1: This little girl goes out to a friend's house with

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Speaker 1: a birthday card and she never comes home. And my

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Speaker 1: question is why why did the case go unsaw? You've

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Speaker 1: heard that she was sex assaulted, that means raped, let

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Speaker 1: me just boil it down for you, and murdered left

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Speaker 1: by a dumpster. Well, I'll tell you why, because even

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Speaker 1: with a rape, even with DNA, cops couldn't solve it

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Speaker 1: through no fault of their own. Listen to our friend

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Speaker 1: Nikki Rudd whec Tan Rochester. Wendy Jerome had just turned

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Speaker 1: fourteen years old. She was a freshman at Edison Tech

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Speaker 1: High School and one day wanted to become a cosmetologist.

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Speaker 1: It hurts, it will never go away. Nobody knows why

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Speaker 1: Wendy Jerome was at school thirty three on Webster Avenue

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Speaker 1: last night. I know she was beaten very badly. She

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Speaker 1: was partially dressed. We determined it was in fact the body.

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Speaker 1: It appears at this point that it's a white female

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Speaker 1: early teens. Whoever it was covered her face with okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: Wendy was Marlene Jerome's firstborn. I want to go to

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Speaker 1: a very special guest joining me. I got to first

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Speaker 1: meet him. I think Phil, through doctor Oz and you

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Speaker 1: were in your Beautiful Wife, but especially your daughter. Karina

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Speaker 1: has been a huge inspiration in my life and I

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Speaker 1: draw upon her life and your story in my new book,

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Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim. Phil. As I am listening to

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Speaker 1: Wendy's mother speaking, all I could think about is the

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Speaker 1: way you spoke about Karina after her murder, that the

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Speaker 1: shock Karina was so close to home as almost unfathomable

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Speaker 1: that this could happen so close to a loving home

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Speaker 1: where mom and dad are. They're waiting for her to

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Speaker 1: come home, and she doesn't come back. But you had

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Speaker 1: a feeling that day when Karina went jogging almost right

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Speaker 1: after she left, that something was going horribly wrong. That

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Speaker 1: is true, That is true. I call it intuition, you know,

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Speaker 1: a parent's intuition, of father's intuition, just a feeling that

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Speaker 1: something is amiss. And that's how it all started. And

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Speaker 1: that clip that you played of the mother, it almost

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Speaker 1: brought tears to my eyes because I know exactly exactly

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Speaker 1: how she feels, you know, you know, Phil, you just

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Speaker 1: gave me chill bumps all up and down my arm

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Speaker 1: when you said that, Because when I was trying to

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Speaker 1: start the program today, I actually choked up thinking about

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Speaker 1: my girl Lucy and my boy, big boy John David.

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Speaker 1: And you don't know the suffering until it happens to you,

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Speaker 1: and it did happen to Wendy Jerome's parents. Phil, the

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Speaker 1: Toronto is not here just as a crime victim that

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Speaker 1: has lived through what Wendy's parents live through, but for

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Speaker 1: a very important forensic reason. Why do this case go unsolved?

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Speaker 1: You know? I noticed there that the reporter said the

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Speaker 1: killer covered her face with a jacket, and we see

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Speaker 1: that quite often, Joseph Scott Morgan, Yeah, we do, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: And you know one of the reasons this happens is

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Speaker 1: that if you just imagine, the perpetrator has not dehumanized

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Speaker 1: the person that they have victimized to the point where

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Speaker 1: they don't still see them as a human. They see

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Speaker 1: allegedly this individual that they have so traumatized and beaten

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Speaker 1: down literally staring back at them. So there's this effort

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Speaker 1: to cover the face. And I've seen this over and

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Speaker 1: over and over and over again, me too. Wendy Patrick,

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Speaker 1: California prosecutor, author Red Flags, host Live with Doctor Wendy.

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Speaker 1: I've seen it many many times at even sometimes I've

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Speaker 1: seen bodies their face covered up with leaves if the

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Speaker 1: attack was out in the open. Have you ever seen

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Speaker 1: that in your days as a prosecutor? Absolutely, And you know,

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Speaker 1: we used to wonder early in our career is what

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Speaker 1: the point of that would be. And as we've gained

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Speaker 1: a little bit of more maturity and experience, it does

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Speaker 1: seem that even for the most horrendous attacks and the

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Speaker 1: most brutal murders in cold blood, it still seems that

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Speaker 1: many killers tend to at least have some sort of

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Speaker 1: way of obscuring the body. One wonders whether it's for

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Speaker 1: their own edification feeling better about what they did, making

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Speaker 1: some sort of unaccountability by somehow obscuring the identity. But

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things that is in nowadays. With

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Speaker 1: the forensics that we have, really only has that very

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Speaker 1: minimal value because it's just too easy to find out

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Speaker 1: who it is, how they killed, how they were killed,

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Speaker 1: and everything else regarding how do we find the killer.

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Speaker 1: You know, I still have a Jane Doe that was

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Speaker 1: part of a serial killer case I prosecuted. I think

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Speaker 1: I am hearing doctor Bethany jump in, Bethany Nancy. I've

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Speaker 1: often thought about the serial killer who actually removes the

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Speaker 1: victim's head. That's a step further than what we have here.

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Speaker 1: But there's an attempt to dislocate the thinking mind and

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Speaker 1: the humanity of the victim from the body, which is

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Speaker 1: just a sexual object, like literally severing and taking apart

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Speaker 1: human mind from sexualized body. And I think this is

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Speaker 1: just one step down from that. I'm trying to take

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Speaker 1: him what you just said and wrapped my mind around it. Guys,

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Speaker 1: listen to our friends Ecn's ten. Who do you think

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Speaker 1: killed Wendy Jerome? Somebody close with the devil. This was bad,

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Speaker 1: This was a child after Thanksgiving dinner with her family,

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Speaker 1: Wendy got permission to go to our best friend's house

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Speaker 1: in their Beechwood neighborhood. She left there shortly after seven

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Speaker 1: thirty last night, and that was the last time she

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Speaker 1: was seen. She never made it home. Her better body

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Speaker 1: was found in an alcove alongside the school. That's School

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Speaker 1: thirty three on Webster Avenue in Rochester, just a quarter

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Speaker 1: mile from Wendy's house, and we have a picture of

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Speaker 1: the school at the time. Ronchester Police investigator John Brennan

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Speaker 1: showed us some pictures from the crime scene, but most

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Speaker 1: of them they're tooboral. I wouldn't dream of seawan. She

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Speaker 1: was raped, yes, her throat was slit, yes, but that's

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Speaker 1: not what killed her. No, she would be pretty bad,

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Speaker 1: you would think with all that evidence, there had to

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Speaker 1: be DNA evidence from the defendant, the killer. Now keep

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Speaker 1: in mind this triangle. What does it mean that these

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Speaker 1: three locations were in such close proximity to each other.

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Speaker 1: School number thirty three, where her body was found in

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Speaker 1: an alcove near a dumpster, her home just a few

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Speaker 1: blocks away, and the home of the friend where she

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Speaker 1: had visited. Just turned fourteen years old. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to Nikki Rudd. Then night, Wendy had asked to visit

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Speaker 1: her friend Susie, who lived just a few blocks away.

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Speaker 1: Her father Wayne said she could go, but her curfew

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Speaker 1: was at eight. Wendy never made it home. Her battered

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Speaker 1: body was found in an alcove alongside the school. She

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Speaker 1: was found by a man taking a short cut through

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Speaker 1: the school's yard. Did you think the case would be

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Speaker 1: swolved by now? I would have hoped so because we

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Speaker 1: had DNA. Ronchester Police investigators still have the suspect's DNA

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Speaker 1: from Wendy's underwear, but DNA did not match anyone in CODIS,

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Speaker 1: the FBI's Combined DNA Index system. Now, investigators are hoping

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Speaker 1: a new tool will crack the case, a familial DNA search.

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Speaker 1: This was approved by New York State in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: DNA can be submitted to the state Crime Lab to

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Speaker 1: see if any offenders in the state DNA data bank

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Speaker 1: could be related to the suspect. And that is where

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Speaker 1: Phil Vatronto and japan Wall Marshall come in. Phil Vatronto,

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Speaker 1: the father of the Long Island Jogger, as she has

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Speaker 1: now known Koreana Vatronto fought valiantly to allow the use

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Speaker 1: of familial DNA in court. Phil Vatronto, Why were people

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Speaker 1: so resistant to using familial DNA, Well, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of reasons that I was told target certain minority

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Speaker 1: groups had infringed upon the civil rights. But to me

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Speaker 1: it was all bull. Now. I didn't even know what

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Speaker 1: familiar DNA was until Tony wrote an article in news

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Speaker 1: Day and I saw it, and I started to push

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Speaker 1: for it, and I was told by the upper echelon

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Speaker 1: of the police department, forget about it. It's not going

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Speaker 1: to happen. Never passed in New York. And with that

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Speaker 1: I dug in my heels, put my nose to the grindstone,

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Speaker 1: and I went to war. I posted on my go

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Speaker 1: fund me, which I had seven hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: follow us, and I said send Mike Green, who was

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Speaker 1: the head of the State Department Criminal Justice, and email

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Speaker 1: saying we want FS testing. Within a half hour, I

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Speaker 1: got a call back from the DA to Queen's THEA said, Phil,

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Speaker 1: you got to tell everybody to stop. It. Just blew

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Speaker 1: up my Green server time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to Phil Vatranto, the father of the so

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Speaker 1: called Long Island jog or Queen of Patronto, who was

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Speaker 1: murdered the one time practically that she did not go

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Speaker 1: jog with her dad, Phil Firefighter. She was attacked brutally

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Speaker 1: and murdered. I have Phil with me right now. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to go into the details of Corina's murder,

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Speaker 1: but it was brutal and at that time he started

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Speaker 1: a war to allow familial DNA as a crime solving technique,

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Speaker 1: and we saw at work in other cases like the

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Speaker 1: famous Golden State killer case Jackie. If you would play

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Speaker 1: our cut number one, this is John Blackstone speaking with

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Speaker 1: CBS News and cuffed to a wheelchair. Joseph de'angelo was

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Speaker 1: arraigned on charges for two murders in nineteen seventy eight.

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Speaker 1: He was barely audible answering the judge. Investigators found de'angelo

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Speaker 1: using DNA from crime scenes decades ago, which they submitted

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Speaker 1: to a publicly shared genealogy website called Jetmatch. Cold Case

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Speaker 1: investigator Paul Holes. We were able to do this without

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Speaker 1: seeking the legal authority in terms of getting the federal

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Speaker 1: grand jury subpoena or the search warrant that we would

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Speaker 1: need if we wanted to search the other types of

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Speaker 1: genealogy sites. Jetmatch users submit DNA profiles they buy from

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Speaker 1: sites like ancestry, dot com and twenty three and me.

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Speaker 1: They plug their data for free into Jetmatch, searching for

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Speaker 1: distant relatives. Within days, investigators found distant cousins of the

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Speaker 1: suspected Golden State killer. We literally went back to the

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Speaker 1: great great great grandfather with individuals that were born in

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Speaker 1: the early part of the eighteen hundreds. You know, I

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Speaker 1: spoke to the investigator in that case, Paul Holes, in person,

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Speaker 1: to get them to explain to me how familial DNA works.

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Speaker 1: And it's not like, oh, we got a hit on

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Speaker 1: your grandma. No, you go all the way back. In

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Speaker 1: that case Golden State Killer Joseph de'angelo, they went back

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Speaker 1: to the eighteen hundreds, and you go, this would marry

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Speaker 1: that one, and this one was the cousin. This goes down,

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Speaker 1: that's nephew. To finally get down to the DNA of

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Speaker 1: the purpose and hey, you know you heard them say

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Speaker 1: Joseph D'Angelo was rolled in wheeled in in a wheelchair

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Speaker 1: at a court. Don't worry too much about him because

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Speaker 1: later video shows him working out and doing calisthenics at

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Speaker 1: the jail. Okay, so you can only surmise why he

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Speaker 1: wanted to be rolled in in a wheelchair into court.

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Speaker 1: Familial DNA works, and in this case of Wendy Jerome,

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Speaker 1: that is what was needed. And it took a soldier

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Speaker 1: like phil Va Toronto to go to war to allow

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Speaker 1: familial DNA into court. But he was sparked by an

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Speaker 1: article written by Crack reporter and Tony D. Stefano. Tell

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Speaker 1: me about your article, Tony, that started this whole thing,

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Speaker 1: ignited it. Well, it all started with essentially was a

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Speaker 1: mistake by a police official in New York City. I asked,

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Speaker 1: during the pendency of Karina's investigation, why have you tried

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Speaker 1: familial DNA, and the officials said, yes, we have, but

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Speaker 1: it came up with no hit. So I wrote that

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Speaker 1: in a story, and of course I got an email

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Speaker 1: from somebody out in California sort of reading on the

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Speaker 1: expert in the field. He said, hey, NYPD doesn't use

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Speaker 1: for me to the DNA, you can't use it in

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Speaker 1: New York, so they're giving you a line of malarchy.

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Speaker 1: So I checked in with him and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: what's this all about familial DNA, and he told me,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of those situations where you say, okay,

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Speaker 1: explain that again, because it was one of these complicated

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Speaker 1: but interesting forensic facets that I had to deal with.

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Speaker 1: So I was going to do a story about it

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Speaker 1: and raise the question why wasn't it used in New

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Speaker 1: York State? And there are all sorts of bureaucratic reasons

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Speaker 1: why it wasn't. It needed state approval, the Commission had.

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Speaker 1: Let's just spoil that down to I needed what Phil

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Speaker 1: mcrane said, b S. That's a technical legal term. And

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Speaker 1: believe me, as a trial lawyer, I see it all

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Speaker 1: the time, and yes, it's stinks. So to you fiel

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Speaker 1: Vers Toronto, why did this ring pull out such a

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Speaker 1: chord in your heart to make DNA familial DNA allow

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Speaker 1: on the court? Why were you so invested? Well, at

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Speaker 1: that time, we did not know who killed Karina, and

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Speaker 1: I got national tension with you when we were both

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Speaker 1: on Doctor Oz. And once we were on Doctor Oz,

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Speaker 1: it took off. Okay, that's when I started to get

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Speaker 1: backing from the All five DA's and we got a

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Speaker 1: hold of mic Green. We had a special meeting and

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Speaker 1: before that meeting, we did find Karina's killer through now

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Speaker 1: not familiar DNA testing, but being Kathy felt like if

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Speaker 1: we could get this passed, there's other families out there

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Speaker 1: that don't know who killed their child or their loved

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Speaker 1: when their mother, whoever, we could help them put this

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Speaker 1: to rest. So we continued our fight. It got stro

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Speaker 1: longer and stronger and stronger, and it was actually passed

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Speaker 1: in five months from when we had that meeting, and

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Speaker 1: that usually takes two years. We hadn't go five months

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Speaker 1: at least. Believe me. Listen, Phil, When I first went

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Speaker 1: to the DA's office, one of my tasks was that

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Speaker 1: I had to go be a let me just say,

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Speaker 1: lobbyists for anti crime issues. I went up to the

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Speaker 1: Georgia Assembly. I couldn't wait for those three months to

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Speaker 1: be over. With the level of BS I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: way through it every day. I remember trying to get

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Speaker 1: the rape She'll law passed. You have never seen the

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Speaker 1: politics behind doing what's right. Same thing here now here

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Speaker 1: comes another start guest joining us, doctor Pamela Marshall, Decane University. Man.

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Speaker 1: If I were to read you her resume, it would

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Speaker 1: take the rest of the hour. Doctor Marshall. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for being with us. Now, Doctor Marshall, we

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Speaker 1: not all have your kind of education, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you've written tons of well very interesting articles because you

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Speaker 1: just dummy down for us. From me, I'll speak for

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Speaker 1: myself and explain how familial DNA works and why it

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Speaker 1: is so important and the Wendy it's your Rome case.

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Speaker 1: So one of the one of the things that we

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Speaker 1: have is we have this national DNA database where we

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Speaker 1: are able to link crimes across the country and when

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Speaker 1: everything works well, we're able to find those matches to

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Speaker 1: correct and find the true perpetrator of a crime. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: for Wendy's case, they uploaded Semen sample in two thousand,

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Speaker 1: because remember nineteen eighty four, DNA technology was not where

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Speaker 1: it is now and CODAS the DNA Data Bank was

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Speaker 1: kind of a pipe dream at this point. So the

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Speaker 1: Semen sample, it made me want a wheel around in

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Speaker 1: my chair to think of a time and I was

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Speaker 1: there prosecuting in these days where we didn't have CODUS,

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Speaker 1: the National DNA Databank, But you're right, it didn't even

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Speaker 1: exist then. Okay, sorry for that, doctor Marshall, Go ahead, No, no,

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Speaker 1: that's all right, I like how you get excited. So

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Speaker 1: they uploaded the semen sample from the underwear, which didn't

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Speaker 1: result in any CODAS matches. And unfortunately, as Phillis pointed out,

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Speaker 1: it takes a lot of legislation, and even New York

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Speaker 1: was only the eleventh state in the United States. The

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Speaker 1: wowing is familial DNA. How does it work? Why did

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Speaker 1: Paul Hold have to go back to the eighteen hundreds

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Speaker 1: to catch Joseph D'Angelo the Golden State Killer. So that's

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Speaker 1: actually a little bit different. So for the Golden State

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Speaker 1: Killer and joseph'angelo. Okay, so that's the use of a

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Speaker 1: public database. What makes familial DNA searching stand out as

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Speaker 1: the use of our own cDNA law and Force database,

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Speaker 1: So being able to go in and so what typically

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Speaker 1: happens is crime scene evidence comes to the crime lab,

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Speaker 1: we create a DNA profile, and we upload that profile

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Speaker 1: to the database in looking at maybe thirteen locations. If

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Speaker 1: you have a match, that means that the profile from

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Speaker 1: the crime scene evidence and the profile from the suspect

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Speaker 1: match at all thirteen. What familial DNA searching does is

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Speaker 1: it shows profiles that share a net similarities, so we

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Speaker 1: know that we get half of our DNA from our

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Speaker 1: biological mother and half from our biological father. We also

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Speaker 1: share those DNA markers with full siblings and half siblings,

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Speaker 1: so it's allowing an active search for these family relationships

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Speaker 1: through software, and that's how we get this familiarity. So

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Speaker 1: you're not just looking for a match to the DNA

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Speaker 1: at the crime scene. You put it into data banks

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Speaker 1: all of these ancestry, usually public ones, to see if

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Speaker 1: it even remotely hits on a family member, even if

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Speaker 1: a distant family member. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, guys

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Speaker 1: were talking about the murder of a fourteen year old girl.

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Speaker 1: Listened to this. We spoke with Wendy's mother, Marlene Jerome.

426
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: She's frustrated the man who raped and killed her daughter

427
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: has never been caught. Is the guy's soul life? Is

428
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: he dead? All these questions that go through my head.

429
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: I'm just disgusted with the system. I think it's a joke.

430
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: Investigator Brennan is also frustrated. And here's why they have

431
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: the suspect's DNA, but they've been waiting on the State

432
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: Blonis crime lab to test it. Piece of a it's

433
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: a good point, possibly point is in the right direction

434
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: to get the animal that killed this young woman. They

435
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: have it, they have it. I need an answer. I

436
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: want to know. Here's the deal. It's not your average

437
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,719
Speaker 1: DNA test. The DNA in this case didn't match anyone

438
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: who has submitted DNA from past crimes. But the state

439
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: just started within the last couple of years testing DNA

440
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: to see if they can connect it to a family member,

441
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: a family member who may have DNA in the system. Okay, guys,

442
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: go with it to try to untangle this ball a

443
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: string which is the Windy Jerome murder? Or listen to

444
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: Eric Key to cost of r OC. Over the years,

445
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: there have been hundreds of leads, but every time technology advanced,

446
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: someone would review the case again. In twenty seventeen, New

447
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: York State approved the use of familial DNA testing for

448
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 1: law enforcement, which helps investigators find relatives for some other

449
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: trying to identify. Through that, investigators were able to identify

450
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: a family sample that eventually led them to Williams and

451
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: the arrest. As a result to the collaborative efforts of

452
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: an army of people over the last thirty five years,

453
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: major crimes investigators traveled to Melbourne Florida. Earlier this week,

454
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, September ninth, with the assistance to the Florida

455
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: Department of Law Enforcement, we arrested Timothy Lee Williams at

456
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: his home in charging with the brutal rape and murder

457
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: of Wendy. That's right, a Flourida man, aged fifty six,

458
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: arrested for the right and murder of a fourteen year

459
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: old girl. All the way up the country in Rochester

460
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: to feel Vatronto, the father of the Long Island jogger

461
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: Carina Vatronto. Can you imagine the parents waiting all these years,

462
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: over thirty years to find out the truth. I can't

463
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 1: imagine that. I mean, we found within four months. But

464
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: when I heard that that we did find a person

465
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: who meant the DNA specifications, and it was crying. Was

466
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: solved it for me testing I started to cry, you know,

467
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: it was such It was a bit of sweet because

468
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: I was so happy and so glad that Karina had

469
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: was instrumental in getting this case solved. But then it

470
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: brought back those memories again. But we're not We're not done.

471
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: We're gonna find more. We're gonna help other people, and

472
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, feel I remember the moment you called me

473
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: when Williams was arrested. Maybe you rotten hell forever. I

474
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: was with my children, the twins, and we were out

475
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: in the middle. We were under a bridge, clearing brush

476
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: for an Eagle Scout project, and the phone rang. I

477
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: went to go get look at it. I saw it

478
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: was you and picked it up, and you gave me

479
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: the news that the first case in New York had

480
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: been saw through familial DNA. Too. Tony Stephano with the

481
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: new when you Newsday reporter, how do you feel since

482
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: you set a fire with Phil Vitrano and it ignited

483
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: into this solving Wendy's case. Well, you know, Phil was

484
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: the catalyst, Cathy was a catalyst. It took a long time.

485
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: It took longer than I expected for this to get

486
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: a hit. But then again, you know, there was some

487
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: sense of satisfaction that I felt that that little thing

488
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: we'd had back way back when when Karina died and

489
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: we sort of wrote a familial DNA sort of came

490
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: to fruition and got some results and got some closed

491
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: the circle and a very horrible crime, you know, and

492
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: the defendant presumed innocent, of course, but hey, you know

493
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: This gave a lot of satisfaction, sents, A satisfaction to

494
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: a lot of people, myself included. Speaking of people satisfy.

495
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut nine kill a Grain

496
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: WRC news A. In nineteen ninety nine, police were able

497
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 1: to build a DNA profile from Seamen that was collected

498
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: from an autopsy. They gave that DNA to CODIS, an

499
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: FBI system that compares DNA from no defenders. It didn't

500
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: get any hits. In twenty seventeen, New York State to

501
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: prove the use of familial DNA testing, which searches DNA

502
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: and a database to find blood relatives of the person

503
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: they're trying to find. The June investigators on this case

504
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: received those search results. This led them to further DNA

505
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: evidence and all stimately to Timothy Williams. I know I

506
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: would see the day and know it's here. I just

507
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: wish my husband had been life to seed this. Hessed

508
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: away two thousand and eleven, and I know he's up

509
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: there with her and Eric my Lean saying it's over.

510
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: It's family overert you know I'm comparing Joe Scott Morgan,

511
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: The Mother's Voice Indonesia reports at the time her daughter

512
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: went missing to now she's an old lady and Wendy's

513
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: father is dead and she's talking about how she wished

514
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: he had been alive to see this day. You and

515
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: I have both handled cases that were cold cases, and

516
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 1: the victim's family's speed in their whole life seeking justice,

517
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: and it's debilitating. It is, Nancy, And you know, not

518
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: only did this animal murder this poor angel Wendy on

519
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: a Thanksgiving night, he murdered her father as well. He

520
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: is still killing this mother. You can only begin to

521
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: imagine the years and the toll this has taken on

522
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: this family after all these years, but everyone in this

523
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: case has persisted all the way back in nineteen eighty four, Nancy,

524
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: when they took those samples, they protected that and because

525
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: of what they had done in the past, we were

526
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: able to take that data, that evidence, and process it

527
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: and bring this to a conclusion. That's why people like

528
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: myself and Pam, when we teach our college students they're

529
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: gonna go out and work for police agencies. We tell them,

530
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: you're you're not only working to crime scene, you're a historian.

531
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: You're documenting things they're going to ring through time and

532
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: you never know how this is going to impact and

533
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: all the way back then those actions they took at

534
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: that morgue and at the crime scene, at that point

535
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: they caught this guy. They caught him. To doctor Pamela

536
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: Marshall joining me from Decayne University, Doctor Marshall, when you

537
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: are teaching or when you are researching your many works,

538
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: does do you ever allow it to get to you

539
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: that what we're talking about when it's say familial DNA

540
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: and DNA at the scene, we're talking about real people,

541
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: in this case, a little girl that had just turned fourteen.

542
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: Because it's hard for me sometimes to keep laser focus

543
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: when I personally identify with the victims, which is always

544
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: absolutely I think. I think what's important for me is

545
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: to not only teach and develop the passion for for

546
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: an the science and my students, but also the compassion

547
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: for each and every victim. I am very honest and

548
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: upfront with my students that cases involving children were always

549
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: the hardest cases for me personally to deal with. But

550
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: we all have to find outlets and someone has to

551
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: do this job. And as my good colleague Joe just

552
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: pointed out, you know, this is a result of all

553
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: of that dedication to preserving that evidence because they they

554
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: had to go back and do another layer of DNA

555
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: testing all the way back in twenty twenty, at July

556
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, they had to do initial DNA pesting. So

557
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: the fact that they have preserved the sample for thirty

558
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: six years in a way that still was able to

559
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: bring Wendy justice. In any other victim that Timothy Williams

560
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: may have, you know, participated in the deaths of those

561
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: individuals as well, it's hard for me to imagine and

562
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: that this could have been a one off. I agree.

563
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: Truer words were never spoken, doctor Pamela Marshall. And while

564
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: we are passing credit around, I just want to point

565
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: out none of this would be possible. Wendy's case would

566
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: not be solved if it were not for Newsday reporter

567
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: Tony to Stephano and my dear friend Phil the Toronto

568
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: and let me remind you that trying to solve Corina's case,

569
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: investigators pulled Phil out of his daughter's funeral to get

570
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: his DNA. They didn't want to do it, but they

571
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: had to do it, and because of his fight, they

572
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: went national on doctor Oz. Wendy's case has been solved.

573
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 1: May she rest in peace. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing

574
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,