Speaker 1: Welcome to Time Out. I'm Eve Rodsky, author of the
Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller fair Play and Find Your Unicorn Space,
Speaker 1: activists on the gender division of labor, attorney and family mediator.
Speaker 1: And I'm doctor add In the Rucar, a physician and
Speaker 1: medical correspondent with an expertise in the science of stress, resilience,
Speaker 1: mental health, and burnout. We're here to peel back to
Speaker 1: layers around why it's so easy for society to guard
Speaker 1: men's time as if it's diamonds, and to treat women's
Speaker 1: time as if it's infinite like sands. And whether you
Speaker 1: are partnered with or without children, or in a career
Speaker 1: where you want more boundaries, this is the place for
Speaker 1: you for all family structures. We're here to take a
Speaker 1: time out to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim
Speaker 1: our time. High d D High Eve, It's good to
Speaker 1: see your face and hear your voice. It's great to
Speaker 1: see you. As always, we're in our little unicorn space together,
Speaker 1: so thank you for that. You know, we're thinking and
Speaker 1: talking about boundary setting right this idea of what is
Speaker 1: it take to actually set a true boundary in one's life,
Speaker 1: and if you're a marginalized population. If you're a woman,
Speaker 1: it is harder to say no. I was thinking of
Speaker 1: my friend when I said to her, you deserve a
Speaker 1: permission to be unavailable from your roles as a parent
Speaker 1: and our partner and our professional and by professional I
Speaker 1: mean anybody who works her pay or works in the home.
Speaker 1: And she said to me, but Eve, who would I
Speaker 1: be if I wasn't available? That's how she defines herself.
Speaker 1: And so I was thinking a lot about this time
Speaker 1: in the early pandemic. I want to read you a
Speaker 1: little bit about what I wrote about it in Unicorn Space,
Speaker 1: my second book. I say that during that challenging time
Speaker 1: when we just started to lock down, boundary setting became
Speaker 1: a fast necessity and the interests of self preservation, and
Speaker 1: I applauded many of my friends who boldly instituted clear
Speaker 1: lines of their own and an effort to juggle jobs, partners, kids, pets,
Speaker 1: and their sanity all under one roof. I relish their
Speaker 1: videos of hiding out in their kitchen pantries or escaping
Speaker 1: to their bedroom closets double locked the door. My friend
Speaker 1: Blessing said, as I was having a hard time with
Speaker 1: re establishing boundaries when we went to a work from
Speaker 1: home or home from work blended life, where the boundaries
Speaker 1: seemed to be so fluid, and they're not as easy
Speaker 1: to set, at least not for me. I laughed at
Speaker 1: the caution tape that leave me alone, boxes, the impossible
Speaker 1: to confuse, do not enter, and mommy's on the time
Speaker 1: out signs my friends posted. But I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about my struggle because I had converted a corner of
Speaker 1: our guest room adity into a writing nook, and I
Speaker 1: really hope to write uninterrupted for two hours over each weekend.
Speaker 1: It seemed feasible, right. We had done fair play that way,
Speaker 1: but now it was a different time again. Boundaries are
Speaker 1: moving moving during the pandemic. So at breakfast one Sunday morning,
Speaker 1: I announced to Seth and Zach and Benanana, after we
Speaker 1: finish up, I'm going to go work on my book
Speaker 1: for two hours. I'll be home, but pretend I'm not home, right,
Speaker 1: So they nodded in vague agreement, and once the table
Speaker 1: was cleared, I retreated to the guest room. Well guess
Speaker 1: what happened. It's not rocket science, you'll people, I guess.
Speaker 1: Five minutes, there's a knock on the door. It was seth, Hey,
Speaker 1: I know you're busy, but I just want to let
Speaker 1: you know that I'm gonna need your car later to
Speaker 1: go pick up the groceries. Okay, cool, cool, okay. By
Speaker 1: a few minutes later, Ben comes in, Um, mom, when
Speaker 1: you're gonna read my homework assignment? Later later, I say,
Speaker 1: I just you know, shut that door. Thirty seconds later,
Speaker 1: Anna person with her loving passy. I want my mommy.
Speaker 1: I want my mommy. So I kept thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: good God, these walls are really freaking thin. So the
Speaker 1: next week I tried again to communicate my boundary. I
Speaker 1: explained I was taking two hours to write and I
Speaker 1: was unavailable to answer questions, make snacks if you need something,
Speaker 1: asked daddy, and to have her home. The point I
Speaker 1: started to put an unavailable post it on my breast,
Speaker 1: like on my boob, on top of my breasts, right
Speaker 1: where they could see it at eye level, and I
Speaker 1: said I am unavailable, showing Anna because she's a media
Speaker 1: With the post it meant okay. So I go into
Speaker 1: my office five minutes later, knock on the door. It
Speaker 1: was seth again, Hey, I know you're unavailable, but no
Speaker 1: butts I'm working, started screaming. Shut the door. A few
Speaker 1: minutes later and it comes in again. She sucking a lollipop.
Speaker 1: She comes up in my chair. She points at my
Speaker 1: post it and then she whispers, I love you and
Speaker 1: sort of licks my ear. Is very cute, but really disruptive,
Speaker 1: and so I figured since she's not reading, she didn't
Speaker 1: really understand, and she meant, okay, Well, interruptions are okay
Speaker 1: as long as I lick your ear and they're delivered
Speaker 1: with love if I interrupt you. So I had ten
Speaker 1: minutes of solitude when finally Ben barges in. What is it?
Speaker 1: I asked, and I'm starting to get really agitated, and
Speaker 1: he looks at me, and he stands there and we're staring,
Speaker 1: sort of an eye to eye contest, and he says, hey, mom,
Speaker 1: your post it's falling off, and that was it. I
Speaker 1: looked at him. I took the post it off my chest.
Speaker 1: I crumble it up into a damn ball. I throw
Speaker 1: it at him, and I say, get the funk out, Ben,
Speaker 1: get out, get out, get out. I'm unavailable. I started
Speaker 1: throwing stuff. I throw all the books off my death.
Speaker 1: I drove my pens on the floor. I started smashing things,
Speaker 1: stomping around, and then you know what, that two hours
Speaker 1: I was unavailable. But all the guilt and shame of
Speaker 1: having that rage blow up at my kids and cursing
Speaker 1: it then and screaming and having to lock the door,
Speaker 1: I just sat there and I just started to cry.
Speaker 1: And it was too much. It was too much, I thought.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm the person who's supposed to be an
Speaker 1: expert at setting boundaries and I couldn't even set boundaries
Speaker 1: of my own. You know, I laughed at many points
Speaker 1: because it was just so relatable, But there's such deep
Speaker 1: sadness there. You know what's so interesting about the story
Speaker 1: and so many others during the pandemic is that saying
Speaker 1: no and having that sense of I need my time
Speaker 1: is something that's biologic within us. But the actual saying that,
Speaker 1: doing the orchestrating is very difficult because saying no is
Speaker 1: also a socialized response. So basically you're saying, biologically, we
Speaker 1: are programs to say no, of course, when something is uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: or something is disturbing our inner peace or inner sanctity,
Speaker 1: when we are high stressed, as you say, high stress,
Speaker 1: low cognition, right in those moments when you just are focused.
Speaker 1: During high stress mode, you need those two hours to
Speaker 1: do your work and to focus. And during the pandemic,
Speaker 1: when there is no time for yourself because your children
Speaker 1: and partner and everyone is at home, those two hours
Speaker 1: on the weekend we're very precious to you. So it
Speaker 1: is a natural inclination during those periods of stress to
Speaker 1: feel no. I need this space. That difficulty is translating
Speaker 1: those feelings into words and actions, because saying no and
Speaker 1: taking that step, there's a wide divide because that's all
Speaker 1: the socialization process. So that's the discrepancy, and I think
Speaker 1: that's always the conflict. There's a wide gap between feeling
Speaker 1: no and saying no, and we need to figure out
Speaker 1: ways to close the gap. But to be able to
Speaker 1: say it and give ourselves permission requires a lot of education, research,
Speaker 1: guidance systems, aligning external forces, and that allows us to
Speaker 1: actually work on the doing of no rather than just
Speaker 1: the feeling of no. I love that the doing of no,
Speaker 1: So I think that's what we're talking about today. We're
Speaker 1: talking about the doing of no, the feeling of no.
Speaker 1: When you don't have a doing of no, a deity
Speaker 1: is in my research, extreme rage and that is where
Speaker 1: we're stuck a lot of the time. That the crumbling
Speaker 1: up of the post it for me and throwing it
Speaker 1: at Ben's head was a I feel like you said, Adity,
Speaker 1: it's such a good way to look at this. I'm
Speaker 1: feeling the no. It's bubbling up inside of me. It's
Speaker 1: becoming a toxic bile inside of me. But I literally
Speaker 1: feel like I have no control over the doing of no.
Speaker 1: And this is the hard part. When I did do
Speaker 1: the no through rage, it meant I couldn't actually do
Speaker 1: the yes. I couldn't do the thing that I wanted
Speaker 1: to do that day, which was right because instead, because
Speaker 1: I had such a hard time with the doing of no,
Speaker 1: it impeded those two hours. It wasn't a free two
Speaker 1: hours of uninterrupted attention because my attention and my insides
Speaker 1: were stuck in the past hour of feeling that complete regret.
Speaker 1: So I think it's this rage, resentment and regret cycle
Speaker 1: that we stop when we actually can do no in
Speaker 1: a productive way. And again people laugh. You have two
Speaker 1: chapters on communication in a book about creativity. Find your
Speaker 1: unicorn space, yes, because the doing of no is that hard.
Speaker 1: So let's learn to say no. Today. I'm really excited
Speaker 1: to explore these themes further with our guests today. He's
Speaker 1: a good friend of mine, Greg McEwen. He's a public speaker,
Speaker 1: a leadership and a business strategist. He's a New York
Speaker 1: Times bestselling author of two of my favorite books. The
Speaker 1: first one is Essentialism, The Disciplined Pursuit of Less, and
Speaker 1: his new book Effortless, Making it Easier to Do what matters.
Speaker 1: Most are books I think are must read. So he's
Speaker 1: going to be joining us after the break to discuss
Speaker 1: setting boundaries and how to say no. Here to discuss
Speaker 1: setting boundaries and how to say No is Greg McEwen. Hi, Greg,
Speaker 1: it's so nice to be with you. Thank you both
Speaker 1: for having me. Well, we love your work and can't
Speaker 1: you couldn't be more important now, I think as we
Speaker 1: think about a return to our values, a return to
Speaker 1: things that are important. So what is your work? How
Speaker 1: would you describe your work for those who may not
Speaker 1: know it? Can you describe Essentialism for us? Yes? My
Speaker 1: name is Greg mckewen, and I am the author of
Speaker 1: two New York Times bestsellers. Essential is um The Discipline
Speaker 1: Pursuit of Less, which is all about figuring out what
Speaker 1: what is essential, eliminating everything that's not, so that you
Speaker 1: can make it as effortless as possible to do what
Speaker 1: is essential. And that's what my most recent book is
Speaker 1: specifically about, is how to make it more effortless if
Speaker 1: you have to combine both of them in a simple idea.
Speaker 1: I think it's healthy productivity. And that doesn't sound that profound, perhaps,
Speaker 1: but in a time of so much unhealthy productivity, it
Speaker 1: seems to have struck a nerve. And it's really a
Speaker 1: shame that these things are as relevant as they are,
Speaker 1: because we want to find a better way, a different
Speaker 1: way to do life. What I love about your work
Speaker 1: so much is I always try to bring it into
Speaker 1: the work of the home being the most important organization,
Speaker 1: or as this one man said to me that I
Speaker 1: think I told you about where he said, I mean
Speaker 1: like the opposite of my home, where we wait to
Speaker 1: decide who's taking the dog out right when it's about
Speaker 1: to take a piss on the rug. And I said, exactly,
Speaker 1: whatever that is. I want the opposite for you, just
Speaker 1: that that thing, but the opposite. And I think where
Speaker 1: your work intersects with adity in my work, and we're
Speaker 1: burnout in wellness is I always like to say, you know,
Speaker 1: I wish burnout now is as easy as taking a
Speaker 1: walk around the block. Like you'll hear some of these
Speaker 1: productivity experts say or carving out five minutes a day
Speaker 1: for your meditation practice. But I really truly believe that
Speaker 1: the antidote to burnout is being interested in your own life.
Speaker 1: And when you are on a treadmill of milestones, you
Speaker 1: can't be that way. So you you teach us how
Speaker 1: to start thinking about what it is that we're truly
Speaker 1: interested in. What does it mean to me an essentialist?
Speaker 1: How do you return to that state if you're somebody
Speaker 1: who is like my friend who's dying in decision fatigue
Speaker 1: and waiting to take the dog out right when he's
Speaker 1: about to take a piss on the road. Yeah, look,
Speaker 1: I mean there there's a big clear difference between non
Speaker 1: essentialists and essentialists. Non Essentialists think, do, and get very
Speaker 1: different things. So what do they think? They think everything
Speaker 1: is essential, everything is important, and so what that produces
Speaker 1: is what Jim Collins is called the undisciplined pursuit of more,
Speaker 1: where you're reacting to everything, you're living in your inbox
Speaker 1: you're in a zoom, eat, sleep, repeat lifestyle. You're just
Speaker 1: dealing with things when you cannot not deal with them,
Speaker 1: and so this is a way to survive, but you're
Speaker 1: not thriving in that, and it really is exhausting for
Speaker 1: everyone involved to just be in a sort of slightly
Speaker 1: panicked mode all the time. And so what you get
Speaker 1: is unsatisfying results because you're not even sure if the
Speaker 1: right things are getting done or not, and they're probably not.
Speaker 1: Your to do list is longer at the end of
Speaker 1: the day that it was at the beginning. You're stretched
Speaker 1: too thin at work or at home or both, you
Speaker 1: feel busy but not productive. Then then these things can
Speaker 1: even get worse over time. And that's really what they've
Speaker 1: been addressing more recently, is that people really are teaching
Speaker 1: right on the edge of exhaustion. They want to get
Speaker 1: to another level, but they lack the energy because this
Speaker 1: has gone on for quite a while, and then eventually
Speaker 1: everything feels like it's just harder than it needs to be. Right,
Speaker 1: that's the non essential list story. The essentialist is different
Speaker 1: to all of that. The essentialist thinks, does and gets
Speaker 1: really different things. They think almost everything is non essential
Speaker 1: and a few things only are essential. So it's almost
Speaker 1: the opposite mindset. And so as soon as you believe
Speaker 1: that that there's just a few things that are vital
Speaker 1: and almost everything is trivial. As Maxwell put it, it's
Speaker 1: difficult to overstate the unimportance of practically everything. Once you
Speaker 1: adopt that idea, then your behavior naturally shifts because you
Speaker 1: start to say, well, I've got to explore what's essential.
Speaker 1: Then I have to find out what really matters and
Speaker 1: discern between all of these things coming at me. I
Speaker 1: need to eliminate the non essential things, even if they
Speaker 1: feel like it's all just pressure or the fomo because
Speaker 1: of the people are doing it, and I have to
Speaker 1: get rid of that stuff as much as I possibly can.
Speaker 1: And then I need build systems. I know that's one
Speaker 1: of your favorite words, and I love that word. To
Speaker 1: make it as easy as possible to do what's essential,
Speaker 1: so that in the best case scenario, these things happen
Speaker 1: even if we aren't thinking about them. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the ultimate situation. That the systems and rituals of our
Speaker 1: lives work. So whether you're sleeping, these things happen, whether
Speaker 1: you're consciously thinking about them or not. They are happening,
Speaker 1: and the result of that is a life that satisfied,
Speaker 1: a life that really means something, and a sense of
Speaker 1: like they're the right things are getting done and so
Speaker 1: that you can have more joy in the journey. Now
Speaker 1: that's the contrast. You know, in full disclosure, I've spent
Speaker 1: plenty of my life in the first column, and even
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis, I find myself jumping
Speaker 1: between these things. So I struggle with this. I'm in
Speaker 1: the wrestle with everybody else, but it's still helpful to
Speaker 1: me to think of this contrast, to notice when I'm
Speaker 1: in the first so that I can make decisions by
Speaker 1: designed to get into the second. Make decisions by design.
Speaker 1: Can I just say that three times? I think if
Speaker 1: we had to distill what this podcast is about for
Speaker 1: the home, it's making decisions by design so that you're
Speaker 1: not reactive. So I'm going to turn it over to
Speaker 1: a d d who's also an expert in wellness from
Speaker 1: a medical field, and she has a couple of questions
Speaker 1: for you. Greg. So you've kind of laid out the
Speaker 1: difference between non essentialism and essentialism. So in eaves work,
Speaker 1: it's this idea of giving ourselves permission. So for those
Speaker 1: of us who might be living in the non essential mindset,
Speaker 1: to get to that essential is m that's a big leap.
Speaker 1: But we have to almost like give ourselves permission to
Speaker 1: get there, to stay there. Can you talk to us
Speaker 1: a little bit more about that? How do we do that?
Speaker 1: How do we take that first step? First of all,
Speaker 1: you know, read Eve's book. That seems like a good stunt.
Speaker 1: This is non trivial right to to find kind of
Speaker 1: unicorn space in our lives. I know from personal experience,
Speaker 1: and Anna, my wife, is one of the most discerning
Speaker 1: people in my life, but still struggles with this because
Speaker 1: the responsibilities are so high, because she has so many
Speaker 1: important things that she's taking seriously that carving out space
Speaker 1: two formally work on something for her, something that she
Speaker 1: wants to pursue and create, doesn't just happen. That is
Speaker 1: never going to happen anymore in the world, as noisy
Speaker 1: as it is, if you just take the path of
Speaker 1: least resistance, if you just go with the cultural norms,
Speaker 1: it is not going to happen. It will be consumed
Speaker 1: with social media, with running children, places, with any number
Speaker 1: of other activities, and so where do we start on
Speaker 1: this here. Here are a few tactics I think people
Speaker 1: should start with. One is to immediately look at the
Speaker 1: next month of your life and blocking out time. Anything
Speaker 1: that's not already blocked, you block it. You make an appointment,
Speaker 1: a meeting with yourself. We managed to make two meetings
Speaker 1: of all sorts of things. We managed to be on
Speaker 1: zoom appointments all sorts of times. So this is scheduling
Speaker 1: time for yourself. You have to create this space because
Speaker 1: it won't just exist. And maybe a few years ago
Speaker 1: it would have just existed. You're late for a plane,
Speaker 1: or you're or you're waiting to pick someone up and
Speaker 1: they're not quite there and you just have to wait.
Speaker 1: And the upside of that is that the space to think.
Speaker 1: But now the moment that you could have thought or
Speaker 1: imagined or explored your life, you just check your phone
Speaker 1: and you're into all of these other habits. So I
Speaker 1: think blocking out time ahead is one thing that you
Speaker 1: can do. I think a second thing that people can do,
Speaker 1: and this is like a microburst. So you say ten minutes,
Speaker 1: I am going to set time for ten minutes. That's fine,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to make my done for the day
Speaker 1: list that is a thoughtful list that the criteria has
Speaker 1: done for the day, meaning whence I'm done with this list,
Speaker 1: I'm really done. I'm not going to do any sneaky
Speaker 1: work after that. This is the work of my day,
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to move into relaxation recuperation activities.
Speaker 1: And so the done for the day list is a
Speaker 1: prioritized list, but it's one that has a boundary to it.
Speaker 1: And I will say I think I've done it, maybe
Speaker 1: four out of the last five days, and the day
Speaker 1: I didn't, you have a different experience. You feel more
Speaker 1: in control, more deliberate, more thoughtful. To use the essentialist language,
Speaker 1: it's a disciplined pursuit of less and you get to
Speaker 1: the end of the day and you feel more sure
Speaker 1: as you're lying there in bed that the most important
Speaker 1: things did get done, and you also didn't just keep
Speaker 1: going as if you're a machine. Where biological creatures we
Speaker 1: work in rhythms, and we shouldn't be treating ourselves like
Speaker 1: compusers or like factories. I have a followed quite into that,
Speaker 1: which is your second book is so important because it's
Speaker 1: really about figuring out what to fill with if we
Speaker 1: actually do claim this permission in this space, and I
Speaker 1: had someone asked me a question that I thought i'd
Speaker 1: pass on to which I think is important a distinction
Speaker 1: to make life is not easy, right. The good things
Speaker 1: we do, like writing books, you know, our unicorn space,
Speaker 1: or like you said, what Anna was going to do
Speaker 1: creating the world, these things are not all cupcakes and rainbows.
Speaker 1: There is a flow state experience, like this hour or
Speaker 1: this thirty minutes with you is going to go in
Speaker 1: a blink of an eye for me because I'm so
Speaker 1: into listening to you and the flow state of it.
Speaker 1: But there is rigor. And so tell me about how
Speaker 1: effortlessness is different than saying, well, everything in my life
Speaker 1: has to be easy, because I think that's a really
Speaker 1: important distinction. Well, first of all, it's the number one
Speaker 1: risk in writing a book called effortless is to be
Speaker 1: misunderstood in that precise way. You don't write a book
Speaker 1: called effortless because you think life is easy. You write
Speaker 1: a book called effortless because seriously, it is so so
Speaker 1: hard for so many people. I wrote it in part
Speaker 1: because of the most difficult experience of my whole life,
Speaker 1: which was when my daughter suddenly went from the picture
Speaker 1: of health to an undiagnosed and massive discombobulative neurological disease
Speaker 1: that looked on the surface behaviorally something like her getting
Speaker 1: Parkinson's disease and out in the midst of that quite
Speaker 1: let's say, agonizing time. What I discovered, and was very
Speaker 1: surprised to discover, was that there were two paths to
Speaker 1: any challenging situation. One is that you can make it
Speaker 1: harder and heavier and more challenging. And the second is
Speaker 1: that there is a lighter, easier, more effortless, better, simpler
Speaker 1: way to do life. And it really matters that you
Speaker 1: discover the second path because if you don't discover them,
Speaker 1: if we take the wrong path, will burn out ourselves.
Speaker 1: Our relationships are family culture. Before we can help her,
Speaker 1: we don't know how long the journey is for us.
Speaker 1: It was more than two years in all before she
Speaker 1: was able to at least be treated for a diagnosis.
Speaker 1: None of the tests ever actually showed a proper diagnosis,
Speaker 1: but she was treated for enseparitis information of the brain
Speaker 1: and aggressively treated and eventually that seemed to completely work.
Speaker 1: So she is back now. But if you burn out
Speaker 1: before you achieve your mission, then you haven't achieved your mission.
Speaker 1: And so when you don't how long something will take,
Speaker 1: you've got to find this different pace, this different approach.
Speaker 1: And that's what gives me fire for the deed for
Speaker 1: this because I see so many people, so many people
Speaker 1: in their homes. They're doing the most important work of
Speaker 1: their life, right, They're doing important work, but they're doing
Speaker 1: it in a way that leads to over exertion, overthinking, perfectionism, exhaustion, burnout,
Speaker 1: isolation in their burnout, and so all of this ends
Speaker 1: up stripping away the deeper reserves they have. And what
Speaker 1: kind of state are you in when you're trying to
Speaker 1: build a home, when you're trying to build a family,
Speaker 1: when you're trying to build a contribution in the community,
Speaker 1: And what do you have to give if that's your
Speaker 1: approach to life? And I'm afraid that there's that there's
Speaker 1: there's very very many people who I think can relate
Speaker 1: to what I'm describing. There are seemed to be able to.
Speaker 1: And so so that's the reason that's why to write
Speaker 1: this book, that's why it's worth doing, not because life
Speaker 1: is easy, but because it's so hard. You have to
Speaker 1: find an easier path to be able to survive or
Speaker 1: have a prayer of driving through it. Part of your
Speaker 1: work that I love is how you teach people how
Speaker 1: to say no. And you say that saying no is
Speaker 1: like a skill and it's something that we can practice.
Speaker 1: You start small, you build it up over time, and
Speaker 1: it may be one of the most useful skills you
Speaker 1: ever developed. By saying no to things that aren't really meaningful,
Speaker 1: we actually have the space and energy to concentrate on
Speaker 1: the things that are. And you lay out three steps
Speaker 1: really beautifully about how to say no. And one of
Speaker 1: my favorite pieces of writing by you is a piece
Speaker 1: called if you don't prioritize your life, someone else will
Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit more about this idea
Speaker 1: of consciously making a change and designing your life, and
Speaker 1: how we can learn to say no to then be
Speaker 1: better to say yes to all the things we want
Speaker 1: to say yes to. Let's begin with a bold number
Speaker 1: one rule non essentials and has premised on a lie.
Speaker 1: There's here's what the lie is. It says if you
Speaker 1: can do it or you can have it all m hm.
Speaker 1: And here's the problem with that. In a world where
Speaker 1: choices and options have gone up and continue to go
Speaker 1: exponentially right ever since the internet existed. The options are
Speaker 1: beyond comprehension. So, in a state of endless possibilities, can
Speaker 1: you do it all? If it is such a nonsense,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it doesn't mean anything. And then let's
Speaker 1: say you could do it all, or you could try
Speaker 1: to do it all? Will it lead you to getting
Speaker 1: it all? Is that what happens to people? If this
Speaker 1: doesn't live up to what it says on the packaging,
Speaker 1: it's a bill of goods. We've been conned, and so
Speaker 1: our job is to get out of the con is
Speaker 1: to not participate in the lie. You don't have to
Speaker 1: tell everybody else off, you just have to not participate
Speaker 1: in the lie yourself. The world is a world of
Speaker 1: trade offs. Every single time you say yes to something,
Speaker 1: every yes is no to a thousand things. You're saying
Speaker 1: no to every other possible thing you could be doing.
Speaker 1: So actually we are all saying no all the time,
Speaker 1: which is not using that word. So what we're really
Speaker 1: talking about here is not starting to say no to
Speaker 1: everyone and everything without really thinking about it, but it
Speaker 1: is to say yes cautiously and carefully and in a
Speaker 1: disciplined way. So that we can be sure that when
Speaker 1: we say yes, we can really do it without resentment,
Speaker 1: that we can do it and feel good about it afterwards. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your vulnerability with the world. You're
Speaker 1: one of my most profound teachers. But I appreciate your
Speaker 1: vulnerability and your wisdom and Effortless is really a vulnerable book.
Speaker 1: You know, you you do talk about your personal experiences,
Speaker 1: and so that sort of takes us full circle. That
Speaker 1: is unicorns base, right, that curiosity about something, that connection
Speaker 1: with your listeners or readers, and then the completion. You
Speaker 1: actually had to complete the book. So thank you. Thank
Speaker 1: you for completing it and putting on in the world.
Speaker 1: And usually we like to end with just where can
Speaker 1: people find more of you as you iterate and continue
Speaker 1: to create. There's only one thing I'd suggest with people
Speaker 1: on that, and it's just a free news letter. It's
Speaker 1: called the One Minute Wednesday. It's very simple thing. It's
Speaker 1: not profound. Some of the say's profound, it's just microadjustments
Speaker 1: people can make in one minute or less. So you
Speaker 1: just go to Greg McEwen dot com and you can
Speaker 1: sign up for that's the best. I always look forward
Speaker 1: to it. I am subscribing today. I love it, I
Speaker 1: love it. I love one minute Wednesday. I look forward
Speaker 1: to it. Marvelous. What a pleasure to be with you both.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Hi, It's me Eve.
Speaker 1: Are you a therapist, counselor coach or nutritionists that has
Speaker 1: thought about introducing the fair Play System directly to your clients, Well,
Speaker 1: now you can come and roll in the fair Play Method,
Speaker 1: a new online program that provides you with hands on training,
Speaker 1: a ton of valuable resources, and a community of certified
Speaker 1: professionals who are all part of a greater cultural movement
Speaker 1: for systemic change. Learn more about how you can help
Speaker 1: your clients shift the domestic workload in their own homes
Speaker 1: towards more equity, more fairness, and greater connectivity. Visit fair
Speaker 1: Play method dot com. So, as you may know, now,
Speaker 1: every episode of this podcast ends with an action item
Speaker 1: for you are listeners that we call a time out.
Speaker 1: This is really a time for you to focus on
Speaker 1: yourself and reflect on what you're hearing today. You know, So, Eve,
Speaker 1: as we've been talking about all of this, I think
Speaker 1: and reflect upon my own journey in learning how to
Speaker 1: say no, moving from the feeling of no to the
Speaker 1: doing of no. And for many of us and many
Speaker 1: of our listeners, learning to say no is scary and
Speaker 1: hard and foreign because it is ultimately a skill and
Speaker 1: something that we have to practice over and over again.
Speaker 1: When it comes to the brain. The more we use
Speaker 1: certain neural pathways, the stronger they become. We know that
Speaker 1: saying no is a practice, and so for this week,
Speaker 1: I would love for you to share with our listeners
Speaker 1: how to start saying no using all of the tools
Speaker 1: we've learned from prior episodes. I'll circle back to the
Speaker 1: story that we began with. I remember the next Sunday
Speaker 1: d D after those two disastrous Sundays where my time
Speaker 1: kept getting erased by all those interruptions, Because I do
Speaker 1: think the biggest superpower that all of us can have
Speaker 1: when we set a boundary is attention that we get
Speaker 1: attention back. Attention is our weapon, and so if we
Speaker 1: look at protecting and saying no as a boundary to
Speaker 1: guard our attention, that's very, very powerful. So I remember
Speaker 1: the next Sunday, I went to my family around sort
Speaker 1: of the breakfast area they're grabbing cereal, and said, I
Speaker 1: want to try something new today that helps us get
Speaker 1: what we all want without the yelling and the tears.
Speaker 1: So I paused and I locked eyes with each of them.
Speaker 1: I was calm adity, emotion was low, cognition was high,
Speaker 1: and I said, I'd written this down. I love you.
Speaker 1: I want you to feel seen and hurt in this house.
Speaker 1: I want to feel heard and respected to So you
Speaker 1: see how this is a communication skill. Before we can
Speaker 1: the doing of no is a communication practice. I'm asking
Speaker 1: all of you for two full hours this morning to
Speaker 1: write in my office. This time is very important to me.
Speaker 1: It allows me to use my voice for what I value.
Speaker 1: That goes to our y and our value setting, which
Speaker 1: means that I have so much more to give you
Speaker 1: when I'm done. While I'm writing, Daddy's here to help
Speaker 1: you with whatever you need. Seth of course, affirmed that,
Speaker 1: and then I resumed and said, look, in a couple
Speaker 1: of hours, I'm going to be a available to you all,
Speaker 1: but until then, please respect my time and space. Okay.
Speaker 1: So they all mumbled okay, and then I said, okay,
Speaker 1: let me even go a little deeper into my communication style,
Speaker 1: and I said, to the kids, think of it this way.
Speaker 1: If we reserved a private room at a trampoline park
Speaker 1: for your birthday party. And just as we were cutting
Speaker 1: the cake, another group of kids burst through the door,
Speaker 1: demanding cake and proclaiming it was their party room. You'd
Speaker 1: be upset right because it wasn't their turn yet. Anna
Speaker 1: of course said that's not fair, and she was pounding
Speaker 1: her A small little baby adds on the table and
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, that's my point. It's not fair,
Speaker 1: so don't crash my party. And it was this thank
Speaker 1: you for respecting my space and time firmness that I
Speaker 1: was able to start to practice because communication, as we said,
Speaker 1: is our most important practice. So when you think about
Speaker 1: being able to get there to a place where you
Speaker 1: want to protect your boundaries so much, we have a
Speaker 1: time out exercise as a reframe for you today. So
Speaker 1: while mine starting with fair Play through my second book
Speaker 1: was this writing time, I want all of you out
Speaker 1: there to picture your week, and one day a week,
Speaker 1: at least one day a week, when you answer the
Speaker 1: question that Greg McHugh and likes to ask, what is
Speaker 1: the most important thing you will do that day? Let's
Speaker 1: put a time out spin on it. What is the
Speaker 1: most important thing you do that day? You have to
Speaker 1: answer that question once a week outside of your roles
Speaker 1: as a partner and our parent and our professional. So
Speaker 1: what do I mean by that that Sunday? Don't crash
Speaker 1: my party Sunday. The most important thing I did that
Speaker 1: day was right a chapter in my book. Doesn't mean
Speaker 1: I don't love hanging out my kids or being with Seth,
Speaker 1: but that was the most important thing I had done
Speaker 1: that day. Today, the most important thing I'll do today
Speaker 1: is be with you. Add So that's this week's time
Speaker 1: Out and next week we're going to help you stop
Speaker 1: feeling guilty Permission to burn guilt and shame with Dr
Speaker 1: Cheryl Gonzale Ziegler. It's a great conversation, so tune in
Speaker 1: to learn from Cheryl, who's taught me so much about
Speaker 1: how to reframe guilt and shame. Thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to Time Out, a production of I Heart Podcasts and
Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. I'm Ev Rodsky, author of the New York
Speaker 1: Times bestseller fair Play and find your Unicorn Space. Follow
Speaker 1: me on social media at Eve Rodsky and learn more
Speaker 1: about our work at fair Play Life. And I'm Dr
Speaker 1: Addi Narukar, a Harvard physician with a specialty and stress resilience,
Speaker 1: burnout in mental health. Follow me on social media at
Speaker 1: dr add Narucar and find out more about my work
Speaker 1: at dr add dot com. That's d R A d
Speaker 1: I t I dot com. Our Hell of Sunshine team
Speaker 1: is Amanda Farren, Aaron Stover, and Jennifer Yonker. Our I
Speaker 1: Heart Media team is Ali Perry, Jennifer Bassett, and Jessica Krinschitch.
Speaker 1: We hope you all love taking a much needed time
Speaker 1: out with us today. Listen and subscribe to Time Out
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your favorite show