1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Hey there, it's your host ed helms. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 2: Here. 3 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I wanted 4 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: to remind you that my brand new book is coming 5 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: out on April twenty ninth. It's called Snaffo, The Definitive 6 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups, and you can pre 7 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: order it right now at snafudashbook dot com. Trust me, 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: if you like this show, you're gonna love this book. 9 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: It's got all the wild disasters spectacular face plants we 10 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: just couldn't squeeze into this podcast. And here's the kicker. 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: I am also going on tour to celebrate. That's right. 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: I'm coming to New York, DC, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago, 13 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: San Francisco, and my hometown Los Angeles. So if you've 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: ever wanted to see me stumble through a live Q 15 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: and A or dramatically read about a kiddie cat getting 16 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: turned into a CIA operative, now's your chance again. Head 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: to snafoo dashbook dot com to pre order the book 18 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: and check out all the tour details and day, or 19 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: just click the link in the show notes. That'll work too. Okay, 20 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: that's it, on with the chaos. This is Snafu Season 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: three formula six. November thirtieth, nineteen twenty eight, Cleveland, Ohio. 22 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: The city has just opened a new music hall downtown. 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: It's nineteen twenties opulence from top to bottom, arched ceilings 24 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: in an Italian style, columns and balconies glowing with gold leaf, 25 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: a giant plaster eagle looking down over the stage. Maybe 26 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: not how I would do the decor, more into tasteful 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: minimalism myself, but the folks in Cleveland are eating it up. 28 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: A massive sparkling chandelier spills light over a crowd of 29 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: thousands who are all losing their minds hearing for the 30 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: Paul Whiteman Orchestra playing their hits. They're the most popular 31 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: band in America, and they have a talented young coronetist 32 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: blowing sweet notes from his that's Bis bider Beck on 33 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 1: the coronet. How many folks named Bix nowadays? I'd say, 34 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: you know you're in the twenties, baby. He's standing in 35 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: the back row of the band doing his thing. Bix 36 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: is a small, dapper fella, dressed in a tux with 37 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: slicked brown hair parted down the middle like an open 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: Faulkner novel. A few songs into the performance, something strange happens. 39 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: Bix's eyes rolled back, He slumps over on the stage 40 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: and falls to the ground completely unconscious. A band mate 41 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: jolts him awake, helps him backstage, and eventually he takes 42 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:50,119 Speaker 1: him back to his hotel room. That night, Bix has 43 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: a freak out in his hotel room. He yells hysterically, 44 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: he destroys furniture. This surprised everyone who knew him. He 45 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 1: was a jazz musician, I a member of led Zeppelin. 46 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,559 Speaker 1: His bandmates would later describe it as a fit of delirium. 47 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: They said he cracked. 48 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 3: Up Yon Jo or Yon. 49 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 4: True. 50 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 5: Just a little song Keep Georgia on my Mind. 51 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: Georgia on My Mind, That Little Diddy is the American 52 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: songbook classic Georgia on My Mind. Maybe you know the 53 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: iconic Ray Charles version, but this is an original recording 54 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: with the composer Hogy Carmichael from the last recording session 55 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: of Bix's career. In his solo, you can still hear 56 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: Bix's genius, and though you might not be able to tell, 57 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: Bis reportedly didn't have enough breath to finish some of 58 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: the gorgeous phrases in his solo Towards the end of 59 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: the song, Bix is struggling. He never really recovers. A 60 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: year later, Bis is home in his queen's New York apartment. 61 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: By now, he's bedridden, down to just one hundred and 62 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: fifty pounds, complaining of constant headaches, dizziness, memory loss, and blackouts. 63 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: This summer night, a neighbor visits and finds Bix in 64 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: bed under the sheets, hallucinating. Bix dies that night. He 65 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: was just twenty eight. What happened to him? That question 66 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: haunted Bix's family and his fans. Sure they knew Bix 67 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: wasn't well, and they knew that, like a lot of 68 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: touring musicians, Bicks was a heavy drinker. That had been 69 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: true since his teens, But it would take years for 70 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: anyone to see how this all fit into a larger story. 71 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: In the nineteen twenties, taking a drink put Bix, along 72 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: with me millions of Americans, right in the middle of 73 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: the decade's bitter divide over alcohol. In the end, the 74 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: war between the wets and the dryes would have a 75 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: massive human cost. I'm ed Helms and This is Snaffo, 76 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: a show about history's greatest screw ups. Last season, we 77 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: told the story of the burglary that exposed Jay Edgar 78 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: Hoover's secret FBI. This season, we go back a little 79 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: further in time, all the way to the nineteen twenties. 80 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: We're bringing you a dark tale from the heart of 81 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: the Prohibition era. As we all know, Prohibition did not work. 82 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: It was what you might call a snaffoo. Within that 83 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: snaffo is another snaffhoo, one you probably haven't heard about. 84 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: How a lot of Americans started dying mysteriously and the 85 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: unlikely duo who tried to figure out why and save them. 86 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: On this season of Snaffo, the story of Formulas. How 87 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: prohibitions wore on alcohol went so off the rails the 88 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: government wound up poisoning its own people. I thought I 89 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: had a pretty good handle on prohibition. The nineteen twenties, 90 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: the era before the Great Depression, when we felt like, hey, 91 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: world War One is over, what better to do than party? 92 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: The Harlem Renaissance, jazz votes for women. America was feeling 93 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: a burst of new energy. We were trying out cars, 94 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: trying out radio. Heck, we were trying out movies. And 95 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: as a Georgia boy, I can't help loving how much 96 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: love Georgia was getting in that decade. In addition to 97 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: Georgia on my mind, another classic emerged, Sweet Georgia Brown. 98 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: And the background to all of that was, of course, Prohibition. 99 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: It's just kind of part of our mental furniture. Right. 100 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: For me, the word Prohibition takes me back to all 101 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: the great portrayals in classic American cinema, like The Untouchables, 102 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: two straight hours of mafia set pieces. Who could forget 103 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: when elliot Ness faces down Al Capone in a hotel lobby? 104 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: Come on, you can't discern up a pitch? Do you 105 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: talk to me like that in front of my son? 106 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: If you didn't sneak out to hear de Niro drop 107 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: f bombs in an Italian accent, were you even thirteen? 108 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: The summer the Untouchables came out. I mean, just listen 109 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: to that, macho chest thumping cops and mobsters, good guys 110 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: and bad guys going toe to toe. It's classic Hollywood 111 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: stuff that just reels you in. But then, well, I 112 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: heard the story of a Prohibition snafo that genuinely surprised 113 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: me because it wasn't part of the Prohibition story that 114 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: I knew. It was the story of Formula six and 115 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: a devastating Prohibition era program by the federal government. Hey, honey, 116 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: have you ever heard of Formula six? 117 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 4: Now? 118 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, almost no one had. So I called up someone 119 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: who really brought Prohibition into focus for me, along with 120 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: millions of TV fans like me. Hey, so good to 121 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: meet you, man, it's so so great to meet you. 122 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: That's Terence Winter, creator of the epic TV series Boardwalk Empire. 123 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: I put the question to him, I'm curious if you're 124 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: if you hit on in your research, are you familiar 125 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: with Formula six? I am not, And that was wild 126 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: to me because his show is stacked with the kinds 127 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: of details that made nineteen twenties Atlantic City come to life. 128 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 5: Even though it's one hundred years ago, it's still felt modern. 129 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 5: People dressed in suits, they went out to restaurants, they 130 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 5: talked on telephone, they drove in cars. 131 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's still felt cool. It still felt like excessive. 132 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 5: Well this was modern. You know you could wear some 133 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 5: of those clothes today. 134 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I gotta say, I do look pretty good 135 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: in a pair of spats. But the sense we have 136 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: that we already know prohibition, it can actually lead us astray. 137 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: A little, because cliches about life in the nineteen twenties 138 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 1: are so thick, we assume we know what it's all about. 139 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: You know, liquor was made illegal. It was a big mistake. 140 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: There was a bunch of mobsters and Tommy guns, and 141 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: then it got repealed. Yeah. 142 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 5: I mean, every time you ever see anything in the twenties, 143 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 5: everybody's doing the fucking Charleston. I was like, did they 144 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 5: do any other songs written between nineteen twenty and nineteen thirty? 145 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: Obviously, yes, I mean we're talking about the birth of jazz. 146 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: We're talking about Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Eddie Lang Earl Hines. 147 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: I could go on. The point is we tend to 148 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: paint history with broad brushes, like Terry says, when we 149 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: think about the Prohibition era, our minds probably go immediately 150 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: to the cliches we know best, and the real complex 151 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: human lives that ordinary people lived in the past don't 152 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: always come through when we talk about history. But this story, 153 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: the story of Formula six, reveals something bizarre that was 154 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: happening all along. Underneath all the organized crime and speak 155 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: easy gin and temperance moralizing, a shocking government plot rooted 156 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: in the first modern American culture war. It starts with 157 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: a pair of scientists, investigators who happened to see it coming. 158 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: In fact, they tried to stop it. It's nineteen eighteen 159 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: in New York and the city is facing a problem. Okay, 160 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: the city is facing a lot of problems, but here's 161 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: a tricky one. A record number of murders are going unsolved. 162 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: A city report lays blamed squarely on one government office, 163 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: in particular, the office of the coroner. The coroner was 164 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: essentially the city's chief death investigator. He issued death certificates 165 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: and performed autopsies for all murders, suicides, and accidental debts. 166 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: A pretty grim but important job, and yet the city's 167 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: coroners were either horribly unqualified or terribly corrupt, or quite 168 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: often both. 169 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 4: They made coroners out of anyone who needed a job, 170 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 4: who the party machine owed them a favor. 171 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: That's Deborah Blum, author of the Poisoner's Handbook, Murder and 172 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: the Birth of Forensic Medicine. In jazz Age, New York. 173 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: She describes how at the time, the police essentially used 174 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: coroners to rubber stamp false reports and sometimes even cover 175 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: up murders. And when she says anyone could become a coroner, 176 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: she means it. 177 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 4: There were sign painters that were milkmen. There were funeral 178 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 4: home operators, there were lawyers, and there were notably doctors 179 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 4: who were such terrible doctors that they had lost their practices. 180 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: And if you think that's bad, let me introduce you 181 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: to the head corner of New York in nineteen eighteen, 182 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: a guy who showed up to crime scenes completely hammered. 183 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 4: There are death certificates that literally say could be diabetes 184 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 4: or possibly an auto accident. Right, I mean, you're just 185 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 4: going seriously. 186 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: After stories like that started coming to light, the mayor 187 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: had no choice but to make some changes. It was 188 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: time to find someone who could get to the bottom 189 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: of all these crimes, someone who is less Homer Simpson 190 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: and more Sherlock Holmes or I don't know, maybe anyone 191 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: who could stand upright. City officials decided the coroner's office 192 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: was a joke, an embarrassment, and a waste of taxpayers money, 193 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: so they shut it down. But they couldn't just ignore 194 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: the reasons people died in New York. They had to 195 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: replace it with something. Their idea, a new system for 196 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: the city and a new position that would be filled 197 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: by a qualified doctor who would appoint a trained staff 198 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: to examine cases and rule on causes of death. This 199 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 1: new lead position was chief Medical Examiner of New York City. 200 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 1: So they announced the job opening and in walk de 201 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: fella named Charles Norris. H no love Walker Texas ranger 202 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: Chuck Norris, and god knows, I'm scared of him. But 203 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: just to be clear, this is doctor Charles Norris of 204 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: New York, New York. 205 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 4: He was a really big guy and he had one 206 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 4: of those kind of classic spade like beards. He had 207 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 4: a big booming voice and a a Yale football player's presence, 208 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 4: and he used it when he needed to. 209 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: That's right. This particular Norris was a yalely with the 210 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: appropriate aristocratic roots. 211 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 4: He was a descendant of the Norrises who founded Norristown, Pennsylvania. 212 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 4: So they were a long time, well established, important American family. 213 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: Which means that yep, Norris was rich rich. He didn't 214 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: hide it. Norris was a public servant who rode around 215 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: like Bruce Wayne. 216 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: He never went anywhere without his being driven by his chauffeur. 217 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 4: And even when he went to crime scenes, you know, 218 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 4: his chauffeur would take him to the crime scene and 219 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 4: he would get out in his Kashmir coat and his 220 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 4: expensive hat. 221 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: Not exactly a man of the people, you'd think, but 222 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: money bags aside. It turns out public service actually ran 223 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: deep in Norris's blood. Norris's ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War. 224 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: Ever heard of it. They stripped lead gutters and rain 225 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: spouts from their house to make bullets for the Continental Army. Yeah, 226 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: the house is flooding again. Smoking chair will be ruined. 227 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 6: My beloved. 228 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 4: It is the sacrifice we make to bring forth a 229 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 4: new nation. 230 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: And then in the Civil War, Norris's grandfather negotiated the 231 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: first one hundred million dollar loan financing the Union government's 232 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: war against the Confederates. 233 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 3: All of the all of the. 234 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: Norris took the do gooder spirit of his ancestors and 235 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: studied medicine, became a doctor, And now as the Great 236 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: War raged in Europe, he was looking to do his 237 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: part to keep the people of New York safe. So 238 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: he made a real run at the position of Chief 239 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner when the job opened up, an actually qualified 240 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: doctor who wanted to use his position for the public good. Well, 241 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: it turns out that even for someone who wanted to 242 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: do good, even after he started his job as chief 243 00:15:53,920 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: medical Examiner, the odds were stacked against him because it 244 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: turns out there were plenty of officials who simply liked 245 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: the old way of doing things. Norris's budget for his 246 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: staff and his workspace was laughably small that drunk corner 247 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: had left him in office literally in shambles. 248 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 4: At one point, he was actually forced to buy the 249 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 4: clocks on the walls of the Medical Examiner's office because 250 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 4: the mayor the budget is such an agree that they 251 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 4: couldn't even afford clock. 252 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: Before, police officers used corners to play their political games, 253 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: but now with Norris in charge, they were in for 254 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: a surprise. Like when a few officers brought Norris a 255 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: body to examine, which happened to be riddled with bullet holes. 256 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: They asked for a simple John Hancock on a let's say, 257 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: pre filled out death certificate that said the cause of 258 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: death was suicide. Norris looked at the corpse and said 259 00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: that I don't think. 260 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: So out of the question, in my opinion, to even 261 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 2: consider the possibility of a suicide on account of the 262 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: number and situation of. 263 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: The bullet wounds. 264 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 2: There were four bullet wounds spray across the corpse. 265 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: In other words, seems impossible that this poor guy shot 266 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: himself in the heart, shoulder, leg, and arm. Norris was 267 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: serious about his work. He was serious about building the 268 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: Office of the Chief Medical Examiner into an effective research 269 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: team that could get to the bottom of all the 270 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: deaths in New York City. But to do that he 271 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: needed help. Norris was a doctor, not a chemist, who 272 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: could detect toxins or poisons in a dead body. And 273 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: during this time, there were more and more poisons surrounding Americans. 274 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: Morphine and teething, medicines for infants, opium and sedatives, arsenic 275 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: and everything from cosmetics to pesticides. And don't even ask 276 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: about how much formaldehyde they were mixing with cowbrains and 277 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: putting in milk. And I thought that micro plastics and 278 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: my water bottle were bad. And it's not like it 279 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: was harmless. People were dying from this stuff so often, 280 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: in fact, that it was hard to keep up. But 281 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: here's the thing about poisons. They're just not quite as 282 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: obvious as bullet holes. And so Norris had a crazy 283 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: idea to create a dedicated lab where chemists could work 284 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: on determining causes of death. Call it a toxicology lab. 285 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: At the time, no other city in America had one, 286 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: and you know Norris and his cashmere, he always had 287 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: to have the best. This lab would be installed at Bellevue, 288 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: a New York hospital perched along the East River since 289 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: eighteen eleven. 290 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 4: As he thinks about organizing his department, the first thing 291 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 4: he thinks is, we need a chemist. 292 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: Norris just needed to pick the right brainiac for the job. 293 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: Fortunately for him, there was someone who fit the bill 294 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: right down the hall, an assistant professor at the Bellevue 295 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: Medical College, and the award for Forensic Toxicologist for the 296 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: newly established New York Office of Chief Medical Examiner, where 297 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: the clocks don't even work, goes to doctor Alexander Gettler. 298 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 1: Come on down, alex you're the lucky winner, uh, Doctor Getler, 299 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 1: Doctor Geedler. Well, when Norris approached him, this Alexander Gettler 300 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: fellow wasn't convinced that playing robin to Norris's batman was 301 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: his dream job. You see, Alexander Getler was already in 302 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: a position that was nothing to sneeze at in those days, 303 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: and well, if you looked at where the invitation was 304 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: coming from, Let's just say it was pretty clear. The 305 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's office was in the build the plane as 306 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: you fly stage of its existence. Not to mention, Getler 307 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: was from a completely different world. He was quite different 308 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: from Flash the cash Norris. 309 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 3: He was trim, yeah, dark hair, he had a long 310 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 3: angular face, chomping on a cigar all the time. 311 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: From what I understand, that's Dorothy Atsel, Alexander Gettler's granddaughter. 312 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 6: Every picture we have of him, he's in a suit. 313 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: And that's Vicky Atsel, Alexander's great granddaughter. 314 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 6: He's got like a pretty serious expression, which I think 315 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 6: was kind of his m He was a pretty serious guy. 316 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 6: He just kind of like went to work as anyone 317 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 6: would go to work with his suit jacket on. 318 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 3: He wasn't from wealth or Ivy League education or anything 319 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 3: like that. He just kind of pulled himself up and 320 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 3: followed what he wanted to do, got the education he needed, 321 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 3: worked nights so he could go to school during the day. 322 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 7: Tickets, please all right, have a nice day. 323 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: Gettler worked as a ticket taker for the thirty ninth 324 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: Street Brooklyn to Battery Ferry and took the overnight shift. 325 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: During the day, he earned himself a PhD in biochemistry 326 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: at Columbia. Those brains and you know, fairly intense work 327 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: ethic got Gettler his teaching job. He had put in 328 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: the hard yards and he had earned it. But outside 329 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: of work, he lived like a lot of other people 330 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: in his Brooklyn neighborhood, tucked snugly in a brownstone with 331 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: his wife's son and more than a half dozen Irish 332 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: in laws. 333 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 4: He raised his kids in the middle of this kind 334 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 4: of chaos of the Irish American life in Brooklyn. I 335 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 4: think that hugely influenced also his sense of the world 336 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 4: because he was so connected to her family. 337 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: But going back and forth between a busy home and 338 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: a busy hospital, he saw the difference medicine could make 339 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: in the lives of everyday people. So even though he 340 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: had turned down Norris's offer, he couldn't put it out 341 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: of his mind. Maybe if he joined the Medical Examiner's 342 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: office he could do some good. So when Norris came 343 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: around again, Getler was ready to consider the job. But 344 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: Norris was also completely honest with Getler. This was nothing 345 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: like a cushy job in academia. Gettler would have have 346 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: to design the lab from scratch. You would have to 347 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: figure out for himself how to do the work of 348 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: detecting poisons. There were no training programs in forensic toxicology. 349 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: He would have to blaze his own trail. That was 350 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: all right, though, because Gentler loved nothing more than a 351 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: challenge and cramming more chemistry work into his days. He 352 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: agreed to take the position, but only if he could 353 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: keep teaching at the medical College. That's how much he 354 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: believed in his grind. Norris looked around at the backlog 355 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: of bodies stacking up in Bellevue and said, sure, man, 356 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: whatever you want. 357 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 3: My grandfather was tapped to be the chief toxicologist. It 358 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 3: just felt almost like they were like superhero crusaders as well, 359 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 3: you know, like starting something and actually not just starting it, 360 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 3: but turning the page on a system that didn't work, 361 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 3: wasn't fair and was corrupt. 362 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 6: It's funny what you said, I was gonna say, you said, 363 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 6: mom about them being like superheroes that have just like 364 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 6: it feels like it was. They're like like a Buddy 365 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 6: cop movie of like these two scientists in the trenches together. 366 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: And while the scientific trenches of New York may have 367 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: been metaphorical, there's no question that our dynamic duo had 368 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: a very real fight on their hands, because it turned 369 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: out that even though the city was moving on from 370 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: the flu epidemic and the war in France was winding down, 371 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: a different kind of war was just getting started, and 372 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: Norris and Gettler had gotten together just in time for 373 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: the shit to hit the fan. 374 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 3: It's been in the big baggie, in the box, in 375 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 3: a closet, and if you look at each of the pages, 376 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: they were all like sort of frayed and chipping. 377 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: Dorothy Atsel is at at her kitchen table. 378 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 3: I'm hesitating separating the pages, yeah, because every time I 379 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 3: open it there's pieces of paper that just kind of 380 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 3: flake off. 381 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: She's meeting with one of our writers, Albert Chen. She's 382 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: very very carefully handling a dusty blue, hard bound book 383 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: that's older than my mom's wedding China. The book is 384 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: a collection of typed reports written by Alexander Getler over 385 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: the course of three decades. 386 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 3: His dissertation was the balance of acid forming and base 387 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,959 Speaker 3: forming elements in food and its relation to ammonia metabolism. 388 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 3: I don't know what that means. 389 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a while since tenth grade chemistry for 390 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: me too. 391 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 3: And then like this one, which was from nineteen twenty one, 392 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 3: a method for the determination of death by drowning. So 393 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 3: now I understand. 394 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 7: What this is about. 395 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 3: It's easy to understand. Back in the day when he 396 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 3: was doing all of his work, they were pulling bodies 397 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 3: out of the and you, how do you know if 398 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: they drowned or they died by another means? 399 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, a great question that before Getler and Norris came along, 400 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: no one had any clue how to answer. But Dorothy's daughter, 401 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: Vicky says Getler figured it out. 402 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 6: People would come to him with problems that they like 403 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 6: didn't even really know the cause of. Just like all 404 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 6: of these people who work in the same place are 405 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 6: having the same issue. They're all getting weird tumors and cancer, 406 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 6: transit workers or subway workers who were all feeling really 407 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 6: like sluggish and like cognitively fuzzy. And he would first 408 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 6: figure out like the cause of the problem and then 409 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 6: solve it. 410 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: That blue book contained all the detective work that Gettler 411 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: and Norris pursued in their day, and that work kept 412 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: them busy, very busy. 413 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 3: They were so like focused on their work and they're 414 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 3: trying to do things. They didn't want to leave the 415 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 3: lab to use the bathroom, so they just urinated in 416 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:02,479 Speaker 3: the big sink they had in the lab, which I'm like, Okay, 417 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 3: I guess if you're really focused on your work and 418 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 3: you really don't want to take the time, I get it. 419 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: But despite what you may be thinking, the apparent lack 420 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: of nearby urinals was not the biggest public health crisis 421 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: Norris and Gettler were facing. By early nineteen nineteen, the 422 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: deadly wave of influenza was finally passing, but Norris and Gettler, 423 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: we're seeing a concerning uptick in victims reporting similar symptoms, 424 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: a sudden sense of weakness, severe abdominal pain and vomiting, blindness, 425 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: a slip into unconsciousness, heart failure, and even death. But why. 426 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: They had a hunch it had something to do with 427 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: a ubiquitous substance floating through the streets of New York 428 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: City in nineteen nineteen. And no, I'm not talking about 429 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: all the urine flowing from Gettler and Norris's big laboratory sink. 430 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: We're talking about liquor. Alcohol is everywhere. 431 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 8: The term that New York never sleeps is true of 432 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 8: the nineteen twenties, like there are nightclubs on every single corner. 433 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: That's Leshawn Harris, historian of New York City's underground economy. 434 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: Even in black and Tan clubs. 435 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 8: Inter racial clubs in New York City in the early 436 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 8: twentieth century, African Americans are going to these clubs, both 437 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 8: middle class and working class people and are drinking. Alcohol 438 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 8: is something that black churches use for various different ceremonies. 439 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 8: We also know that alcohol is something that different social 440 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 8: groups are engaging and whether they be light beer or 441 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 8: cocktails or a little bit of rum, it's something that 442 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 8: one can engage in while at church. It's a part 443 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 8: of your social life. 444 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: Light beer, cocktails, a little bit of rum. Not if 445 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: you were part of the Anti Saloon League. Let me 446 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: tell you about these folks. Their mission state wasn't exactly 447 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: hard to get at. It's kind of right there in 448 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: the name anti Saloon. They wanted to hammer the bung 449 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: back into America's whiskey barrel. To them, drinking was a 450 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: moral outrage, a sin, and the root of all society's ills. 451 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: From small beginnings, they grew into the most powerful lobbying 452 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: group in America. In Ohio, where they started, they ran 453 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: a pressure campaign that beat a popular governor. Ohio was dry, 454 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: but why stop there? They got ambitious. They wanted to 455 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: ring every last drop of liquor out of the whole 456 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: wet nation. So as their next target, they set their 457 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: sights on Gettler and Norris's stomping grounds, New York City. 458 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: You see, by their account, New Yorkers drank a dozen 459 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: pints of alcoholic beverages a week for every man, woman, 460 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: and child, a per capita consumption that was more than 461 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: three times the national average. One saloon for every six 462 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: people in New York, the League said, as doctor Harris says, 463 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: New York City at the end of World War One 464 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: was bursting with working class saloons, chandeliered hotel bars, and 465 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: wine soaked bohemian cafes. The Anti Saloon League called it 466 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: the liquor Center of America. To them, the Big Apple 467 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: had fermented into a sidery slush of drunkards and degenerates. 468 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: They had the nation, and especially the nation's politicians, running scared, 469 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: and then came World War One. It was exactly what 470 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: they'd been waiting for. The Anti Saloon League saw the 471 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: chance to justify a national ban on liquor as a 472 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: wartime measure. That was easy. No politician wanted to be unpatriotic. 473 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: But the wartime measure was just the first step. What 474 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: they really wanted a permanent ban on liquor enshrined in 475 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: the US Constitution. The US House of Representatives has voted 476 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: in favor of the proposed eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution, 477 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: which prohibits the petra sale or transportation of intoxicating liquors. 478 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 5: The amendment will now make. 479 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 8: Its way for the fifty states. 480 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 6: January seventh, nineteen eighteen, Mississippi. 481 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 3: Becomes the first state to ratify the eighteenth Amendment. 482 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 7: Georgia becomes the thirteenth state to ratify the eighteenth Amendment. 483 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: One by one, lawmakers and state houses across the country 484 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: fell in line California as the twenty second state to 485 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: ratify the eighteenth Amendment, But New York City was, as 486 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: one paper called it, Satan's last stronghold. 487 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 2: An apple did the trick in the garden of Eden. 488 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 2: Imagine what I can do with the big apple in America. 489 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: The Anti Saloon League, they were a lot of lawyers 490 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: and Methodist ministers from like Ohio. New York City, meanwhile, 491 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: was a lot of working class, immigrant, Black, and Catholic 492 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: neighborhoods constantly evolving. These New Yorkers weren't exactly interested in 493 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: test driving someone else's moral spearmint and turning the city 494 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: dry as a kale chip, But when a band hit 495 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: the whole country, they had no choice. The entire commercial 496 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: beer supply in New York City, from the warehouses to 497 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: the grocery stores to the cabinets of every legitimate business, 498 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: got poured down the drain. But you might be surprised 499 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: to hear despite all that beer, saying goodbye New York 500 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: nightlife wasn't changing. The alcohol fueling it, however, was with 501 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: the beer taps, dry saloons were now serving stiffer and 502 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,959 Speaker 1: more mysterious concoctions, this time with distilled liquor. 503 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 4: As the amendment is circulating and moving forward to when 504 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 4: it actually goes into place around New York City, people 505 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 4: are starting to prepare for it by making sure they 506 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,239 Speaker 4: have their own little home stills or backyard stills or 507 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 4: you know what people used to call beathtub jent. Even 508 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 4: if they can't get it legally. They want those systems 509 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 4: in place. And they were using wood or other materials 510 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 4: that they could easily access in an urban area, and 511 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 4: they were making wood alcohol. 512 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: Wood alcohol known to those of us who passed tenth 513 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: grade chemistry as methyl alcohol. It was used as a 514 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: solvent to make varnish and as a fuel, and unfortunately, 515 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: sometimes to mix cocktails. From the taste, you couldn't tell 516 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: exactly what was in those drinks, but you might find 517 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: out the next day when you woke up in the hospital. 518 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: Your body loaded with methyl alcohol, a very toxic substance, 519 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: and that's if you were lucky enough to wake up. 520 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: More and more people from all parts of the city 521 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: were ending up on a gurney outside Gettler's lab. 522 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 4: Bellevue was this sort of gothic brick building on the 523 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 4: sort of mid to lower East side of Manhattan. There 524 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 4: was something about that brick ivy gothic look of the place. 525 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 4: There was something about, you know, the fact that so 526 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 4: many deaths occurred there. It had a kind of mythology 527 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 4: about it. For a number of reasons. Right, they saved 528 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 4: a lot of lives, but a lot of people died there. 529 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 4: That it just had this kind of reputation of being 530 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,719 Speaker 4: a slightly haunted place. 531 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: In nineteen nineteen, Bellevue just opened a new pathology building 532 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: six stories high made of solid granite with long arched windows. 533 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: Inside is the city Morgue and the medical examiner's offices. 534 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: There are autopsy rooms and a forensic chemistry laboratory for 535 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: Charles Norris and Alexander Getler to study the dead. Gettler's 536 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: laboratory is a layer of blue flames leaking out of 537 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: bunsen burners, hissing heating systems, boiling dishes. The wood floorboards 538 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: are discolored by chemicals and burns. When Noris and Gettler 539 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: see a rise in cases of people who've been crippled 540 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: by blindness just before death, they have a hunch that 541 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: the reason is poisoning due to toxic liquor wood alcohol. 542 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: But no test exists to detect wood alcohol in cadavers, 543 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: So Getler does what he always does in cases like this, 544 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: He creates one. Gettler's test is grinding up a chunk 545 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: of tissue into a flask and then boiling it into 546 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: a dark sludge. He measures the formaldehyde bubbling out. Most 547 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: alcohol would release just a trace of it. Wood alcohol 548 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: releases an overpowering amount. 549 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 4: They're really trying to get to the bones of this, right, literally, 550 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 4: how much poisoned alcohol is out there? 551 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: A fair amount actually. For generations, people had been making 552 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,720 Speaker 1: their own liquor and getting sick doing it. Moonshine, white lightning, liquid, courage, 553 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: call it what you want, but this cheap homemade stuff 554 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: mostly stayed at the margins of American society. Now, however, 555 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: it was becoming the mainstream. So in nineteen eighteen, Gettler 556 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: wrote an article for the country's leading medical journal to 557 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: get word out to doctors and public health officials. He 558 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: saw prohibition coming, and he knew exactly what it would mean. 559 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 4: He titles this article, would alcohol Poison It? He's not 560 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 4: messing around. He puts the word poison right in the 561 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 4: actual article title. So he says, the prohibition by our 562 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 4: government of the manufacture of distilled liquors will unquestionably lead 563 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 4: to much moonshining, adulteration, and dilution of the liquors offered 564 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 4: to the public. 565 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 7: It is quite evidence given the recent poisonings in the 566 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 7: city of over thirty persons, six of whom died with 567 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 7: a whiskey sold in the poor sections of the city 568 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 7: that's on analysis, was believed to contain a considerable amount 569 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 7: of wood methyl alcohol. What alcohol pastes like ethyl alcohol 570 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,879 Speaker 7: and morova. It is considerably cheap. Hence the adulterate buys 571 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 7: the latter ignorant. That's a via poisoning, blindness and often 572 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 7: death lurks with it. 573 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 4: He's saying to doctors around the country, you know, let 574 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 4: people know this is dangerous, this is coming, and arm yourself. 575 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 4: He said, I want to send up a signal flayer. 576 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 4: Please take this as a warning. Where at the very 577 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 4: start of this, essentially what that piece says, in a 578 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 4: beautifully scientific way, is I'm not talking about alcohol. I'm 579 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 4: talking about poison. 580 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: Gettler connects the dots. What he sees in nineteen eighteen 581 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: makes him think that people aren't going to be drinking 582 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: less because prohibition is the law of the land. Instead, 583 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: they're going to be drinking a much more suspect, much 584 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 1: more dangerous supply this message. It didn't land, but he 585 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: was right. By the winter of nineteen nineteen, more than 586 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 1: sixty New Yorkers died from drinking wood alcohol. Another one 587 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: hundred were blinded then almost that same number of alcohol 588 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: related deaths, only this time just in the month of 589 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: December alone. So Getler sat down at his desk, picked 590 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: up his pen, and tried again. 591 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,240 Speaker 3: The Critical Study of Methods for the Detection of methyl 592 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 3: alcohol by Alexander O. 593 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 4: Getler. 594 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: Don't get confused here, wood alcohol, methyl alcohol, and methanol. 595 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: Those are just three different names for the same nasty beast, 596 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: and you should never ever drink it. As Getler's granddaughter 597 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: Dorothy says, says. 598 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 3: Here, during the years nineteen eighteen and nineteen nineteen, I 599 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 3: have had occasion to examine over seven hundred human organs 600 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 3: for alcohol. In addition to this, about two hundred and 601 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 3: fifty liquors of various descriptions were analyzed. 602 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: In this report, Getler begins to identify the presence of 603 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: wood alcohol in an alarming number of cases. On the 604 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: day after Christmas in nineteen nineteen, Gettler and Norris switch tactics. 605 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: Just writing for America's doctors wasn't going to save the 606 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 1: country's direction. Sorry, doctors, I mean, you've been telling us 607 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: it's all diet and exercise for like ever, and we 608 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: just don't listen. So with two major reports reaching too 609 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: small of an audience. Norris and Gettler take this story 610 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: straight to the general public. They called a press conference. 611 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: They invite a throng of reporters from the New York 612 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 1: papers into their offices in Bellevue. The news hounds file 613 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 1: in passed broken chairs and over the blood spattered carpet 614 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: left behind by the drunk coroner as a parting gift. 615 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: Then Gettler and Norris deliver their message. 616 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 2: Anything that passes for whiskey and the saloons is dangerous. 617 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 2: The first symptom is a mere pain in the stomach, 618 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 2: but one teaspoon of wood alcohol is enough to cause blackness. 619 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,240 Speaker 2: Drinking a tumble of it will kill you within hours. 620 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 5: Sure, what does it smell like? 621 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: Complete blindness? 622 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 2: What's in this booze? 623 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 5: Have you thought it yourself, doctor Doris? 624 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 7: Prohibition is not going to make alcohol disappear. It's instead 625 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 7: going to create numerous substitutes for whiskey that I have dead. 626 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 4: Before prohibition really takes off. He's looking the federal government 627 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 4: right in the eye and saying, I want to let 628 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 4: you know that we're looking at this now, We're seeing 629 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 4: people starting to die. This is a terrible idea. Whatever 630 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 4: you know, politics and morality you think is behind what 631 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 4: you're doing. The bottom line of what you're going to 632 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 4: do is kill people. 633 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: They issued that warning in December nineteen nineteen. Charles Norris 634 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: and Alexander Getler were now on the case, a case 635 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: that would consume them across the next decade and expose 636 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: the killer of Bis bider Beck, remember him, the jazz 637 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: musician who collapsed in Cleveland at age twenty eight. It 638 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: would take our dynamic duo to the heart of a 639 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: cruel and misguided scheme, a snaffoo that led to the 640 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: mass poisoning of thousands and the people behind it. The 641 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: US government this season on snaffo, the fact. 642 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 4: That there were only twenty six hundred prohibitionations covering the 643 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,760 Speaker 4: entire Canadian border, of the Mexican border, and both coasts. 644 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 8: It's ridiculous. 645 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,240 Speaker 4: When we're five years into prohibition, the government is starting 646 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 4: to go, Okay, this isn't working. What is wrong with 647 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 4: the American people. 648 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 7: The bartender took some brass metals and the other two 649 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 7: patrons held him down and well to beat the crap 650 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 7: out of him. 651 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,439 Speaker 3: He said, if I ever get out and the two people, 652 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 3: I'm going to go get the DA and that son 653 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 3: of a bitch Gettler. 654 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 5: If I made that up, You've got come on and 655 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 5: this absolutely all happened. 656 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 1: Did people die? 657 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:14,720 Speaker 3: They died. 658 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: Daily Snapfu is a production of iHeartRadio, Film, Nation Entertainment, 659 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: and Pacific Electric Picture Company in association with Gilded Audio. 660 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: It's executive produced by me Ed Helms, Milan Papelka, Mike Falbo, 661 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: Whitney Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan. Our lead producers are Carl 662 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 1: Nellis and Alyssa Martino. This episode was written by Albert Chen, 663 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: Carl Nellis and Nevin Callapoly, with additional writing and story 664 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: editing from Alissa Martino and Ed Helms. Additional production from 665 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: Stephen wood. Tory Smith is our associate producer. Our story 666 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: editor is nicki Stein. Our production assistants are Nevin Kalapoly 667 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: and a kimminy Ekpo. Fact checking by Charles Richter. Our 668 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: creative executive is Brett Harris. Editing music and sound design 669 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: by Ben Chug Engineering and technical direction by Nick Dooley 670 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 1: Andrew Chug is Gilded Audio's creative director. Theme music by 671 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: Dan Rosatto. Special thanks to Alison Cohen, Daniel Welsh and 672 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: ben Ryizak,