1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission controlled decades. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: want you to know. I've always thought from a very 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: young age that the world is ending for someone somewhere 11 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: every day, and it's a thought that becomes increasingly, as 12 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: we say, top of mind in these the days of 13 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: our modern era, and it has a lot to do 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: with what we're investigating today. Today. We are attempting to 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: solve a mystery, perhaps with your help, fellow conspiracy realists. 16 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: It is an old one. It is the very definition 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 1: of a cold case. You see, about three thousand, two 18 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: hundred years ago Ballpark, the world of human civilization as 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: we know it collapsed. It imploded, and even now in 20 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: the full causes of this collapse remain unsolved. We have 21 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: to wonder what would civilization be like today if the 22 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: civilization of the past hadn't been crippled all those millennia 23 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: go and and what does this collapse mean for our 24 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: present day? Maybe the best place for us to start 25 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: is what exactly is the Bronze Age? So here are 26 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: the facts. Yeah, the Bronze Age refers to a period 27 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: that's generally described as the third phase of development of 28 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: material culture among ancient civilizations in Europe, AA and the 29 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: Middle East. So you know, you have the Stone Age 30 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: which preceded the Bronze Age, the Paleolithic and Neolithic periods 31 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: collectively known as the Stone Age, and then the New 32 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: Stone Age UM. And it was a massive transformation because 33 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: before the Bronze Age, civilization was essentially a bunch of 34 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: tiny city states that were ruled by a heavy handed, 35 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: oppressive politico religious priests um or casts of priests, kind 36 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: of like a ruling class. And this really shifted when 37 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: the Bronze Age came into being. Yeah. Yeah, food was 38 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: out of premium in a lot of these pre Bronze 39 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: Age societies and it limited the growth of of both 40 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: technology and population. It made us play on hard mode 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: in the game of civilization. Don't sue us, admire we're 42 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: big fans. We really are if you've ever played a 43 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: lot of those games. For me, it was the Age 44 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: of Empires that really got me to understand the difference 45 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: between some of those early ages of civilization. Um, and 46 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: now you know we sit in Is this the Silicon age? 47 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: What do we what do we call this age? I 48 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: don't know has it been coined yet? I guess I 49 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: haven't really seen it, And maybe it's up for debate. Babe, 50 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 1: there's like someone we can submit ideas to, uh, like 51 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: like millennials and zennials and all that stuff. I haven't 52 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: really seen it thrown around. Yeah, I don't know. There 53 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: there are a plethora meaning too many. Uh, there are 54 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: a plethora of proposed names for this age. Uh. The 55 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: other posine would be one we could throw around. But 56 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: in the world of material culture, through that lens, perhaps 57 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: there is one. Perhaps Silicon is a good one. Perhaps 58 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: Information Age is another thing, because information is a substance 59 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: of its own. Perhaps the new Dark Ages. Now I'm kidding. 60 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: Technologies obviously great, but that's the thing to bend to 61 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: your point. I mean technology and development of new ideas. 62 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: That's a huge impetus for cultures developing and pushing forward. UM, 63 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: because material is essentially a technology. When you start thinking 64 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: outside the box or outside the rocks, I just pulled 65 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: that off the top of my head. You you get 66 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: these new ideas that are very important to actually make 67 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: new things that help you hunt and that help you, um, 68 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: keep order in your civilization without depending on superstition as much. Right. Yeah, 69 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: So there's there's a there's already UM what could be 70 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: called UH kind of a catch twenty two for civilizations. 71 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: So too, for a civilization to grow, to innovate, and 72 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: to expand, it needs to have some sort of leisure 73 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: time with necessity compelling the focused use of that free time. 74 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: But to UH to arrive at that free time, we 75 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: have to have the tools that allow that to exist. 76 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: My tools, I also mean socio political things. So what 77 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: see what the bronze ages? We see something? If I'm 78 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: always using cliches like catch twenty two, would be good 79 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: to use the cliche like chicken and the egg. Did 80 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: fortuitous weather lead to more leisure time, which then led 81 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: to UH farming innovations, which led to an agricultural revolution, 82 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: creating a surplus of food that led to the existence 83 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: of specialized UH specialized jobs and careers which led to 84 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: innovations and technology, innovations and religion and government and so on. 85 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: Or did someone just figure out a better way to 86 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: farm themselves. It's tricky to extract these things, but we 87 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: know regardless of the order in which those things occurred, 88 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: we know those occurred and created what we define as 89 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: the Bronze Age. It was a brand new world, a 90 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: golden dawn for humanity in what's called you know, sometimes 91 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: the Nearies, the Mediterranean, North Africa, Egypt, and so on. 92 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: And this was primarily due UH. This ability of these empires, 93 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: which can to be was primarily due to UH the 94 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: surplus of food at the beginning. It allowed for the 95 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: creation of big, bustling, multicultural cities instead of walled off, 96 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: isolated city states. And then it allowed these states to 97 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: institute treaties, to institute rule of law that went beyond 98 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: the stone walls of a citadel. So, for the first 99 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: time in human history, as far as we know, as 100 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,119 Speaker 1: far as we know, for the first time in human history, 101 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: we had international trade occurring on a regular, sustainable basis. 102 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,679 Speaker 1: It was no longer quite as much of a pipe 103 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: dream to say, hey, let me get some hippopotamus ivory 104 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: from this place, people are calling Egypt or whatever, and 105 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: and just kind of pray it shows up in six months. No, 106 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: they were able to do this. Things were flourishing. This 107 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: is also you know, it's called the Bronze Age because 108 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: it's the period in which metal was used in very 109 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: widespread ways. Like as you said, Nold, before then we 110 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: were really really good with stone and a lot of 111 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: a lot of stone Age stuff we built, well, not 112 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: a ton, but comparatively a lot of stone Age stuff 113 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: we built. It was pretty durable. You can see some 114 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: of it today if you travel out to uh A museum, 115 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: or if you travel to where some of these monuments 116 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: might still stand. But the Bronze Age itself, I don't know. 117 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: It's it's tough. It's tough to say when it began, 118 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: for which people like in China and Greece, for instance, 119 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: If we define it just by that use of metal, 120 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: we're talking three thousand b C. And that's that's so 121 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: long ago, that's more than five thousand years ago. But 122 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: if we're talking about a place like what we call 123 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: Britain today, it didn't start till b C. The technology 124 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: is disruptive, but it's not ubiquitous automatically has to spread. 125 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: So anyway, with all that, all those caveats and asterisks, 126 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: bronze A each thirty BC, let's say, three thousand to 127 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: b C is pretty much regarded as they cut off. 128 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: And we'll see why. There's a reason we have like 129 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: a more definitive grasp of that for sure. And you 130 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: know we're talking about international trade and how important that 131 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: was for the Bronze Age. Uh, it seems very elementary 132 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: right now, so very normal just to have countries and 133 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: cities across the world gathering the things that are near 134 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: that city, are close enough to that city or place 135 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: of civilization, and then sending some of that stuff elsewhere 136 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: so that we can so that they can then receive 137 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: something from somewhere else. Right. But as Ben was saying, 138 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: this was such a new thing, one of the one 139 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: of the big occurrences here is that there was one 140 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: particular place where you could find this stuff that was 141 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: called tin. We're gonna tell you a little bit more 142 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: about that in the future there, but there's one particular 143 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: place where you could get it, at least a good 144 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: supply of it that then had to be loaded onto 145 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: donkeys and then sent wherever it was going to go 146 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 1: to be traded with some other place. Right, and ten 147 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: is important because it creates bronze, right, or create It's 148 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: really interesting you combine tin and copper, I believe is 149 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: that is that correct? Guys? Tinnet copper become bronze. These 150 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: are the two medals that you need to create this 151 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: durable thing that becomes the cornerstone of civilization and everything 152 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: from uh, stuff to eat out of, two tools to 153 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: fix other things, to who the weapons? And that's the 154 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: really the big thing here. The weapons were made of 155 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: this substance I have. There's one theory about this that 156 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: is um woefully unproven. We'll probably never prove it, but 157 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: it's a cool story if we want to put ourselves 158 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: back in that time period. How did people figure out bronze? 159 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: It's a big question, like, uh, how how on earth 160 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: did someone say, ah, tin, you like it, you love it, 161 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: you want some more of it, and you make it 162 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: with copper. It's amazing, guys, let's start a war. It's 163 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: it's kind of like the story about the discovery of cheese. 164 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: The discovery of cheese story is that someone was hauling 165 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: milk in a saddle bag and the continual churning and 166 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: chafing of that made cheese during their journey. No way 167 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: to prove it. Yeah, there's the same story with a 168 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: lot of firsts, right, like the first person to eat 169 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: an oyster or a mushroom. It seems like a really 170 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: outlandish proposition when you think of what is actually going 171 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: into this act, and it obviously required a lot of 172 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: trial and error. Maybe caveman eating poisonous mushrooms and dying 173 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: off and then people noticing, oh, maybe don't eat that mushroom, 174 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: eat the one that's delicious and tasty, or maybe makes 175 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: you hallucinate because that's fun too. Um. But with this thing, 176 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: it's such a process in and of itself. The idea 177 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: of smelting, like when you melt the stuff down and 178 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: to either maybe something spilled in and they realized it 179 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: made it a cool color, or like it made it stronger. 180 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: I'm wondering what point along the maybe it was a 181 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: whoopsie kind of moment did they realize, oh, this is 182 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: actually a really solid idea. Or maybe someone saw the 183 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: person doing it and then did it themselves and did 184 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: it better. Again. It's interesting to think about. Yeah, so 185 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: that's what That's what I was getting to is the 186 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: is that there is a myth like that with or 187 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: a theory we can call it if we won't put 188 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: a tie on it, about the discovery of bronze. And 189 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: the idea is that this, like I was originally saying, 190 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: let's picture ourselves were at a camp fire, right, we 191 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: have copper, and we're hanging out. We're playing with our 192 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: copper or something, and we don't know that the rocks 193 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: lining our camp fire are naturally rich intent So how 194 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: amazing is it to see the h to see the 195 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: rocks and the and the copper upon them are to 196 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: melt and mold together while you're just sitting by the fire. 197 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: You know something's up, You know something's happening. That is 198 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: like the cinematic origin story of bronze. And with with this, 199 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: I mean it's probably again even if that's true, we 200 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: can't prove it, but we know people were always experimenting 201 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: with stuff as soon as they had that very valuable 202 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: free time. Again, right, So what we did see is 203 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: even if there wasn't this aha revelatory moment of watching 204 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: this reaction occur accidentally, uh, we knew. We know people 205 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: immediately started experimenting with it. We have to remember that 206 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: before this point, the most common tool in the world, 207 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: and as far as we know, in the universe, was 208 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: the stone axe, which is better than your hand, I 209 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: guess would be the tagline for it. But now that 210 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: they're able to cast bronze, they're seeing that it's it's 211 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: it has numerous qualities that make it superior to either 212 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: copper or tin. And like you said, Matt, it becomes 213 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: a game changer when people realize it can be used 214 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: as a weapon, far superior to stone. So they're still 215 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: they don't perfect bronze in a day, just like Rome 216 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: wasn't built in a day. We know the use of 217 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: copper was already well known throughout the area, and it 218 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: was beginning to infiltrate the cultures of Europe, which were 219 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: still running a little behind. They were still in what 220 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: we would call the stone acts days. During the second 221 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: millennium b c E. The use of bronze and the casting, 222 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: the smelting, the creation of it was increasingly improved. We 223 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: see the emergence of what is called true bronze. People 224 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: are making bronze weapons, and we know this because we 225 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: can do a little bit of forensic work, even in 226 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: places you might not expect, like Cornwall, England. Yeah, not 227 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: only the place known for you know, having lego pieces 228 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: wash up on the beach. Uh. And in fact is 229 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: also what you are indicating at the top of the show. 230 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: Matt Um has massive deposits of tin. So it gave 231 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: them this kind of stronghold in terms of you know, civilization, 232 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: in terms of material evolution. I guess UH to be 233 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: kind of the source for that because it was so 234 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: rich just in in them hills there there was tin, 235 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: oh for sure. And again a lot of the tin 236 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: carrying from the deposits there was by donkey for a 237 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: long time. But you have to remember it right around 238 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: this time. Guess what's invented the real game changer. The 239 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: wheel gets invented around this, around this age. And I 240 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: want to jump in here before anybody UH reaches out, 241 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: reaches out to ne near to us with a with 242 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: a question about income civilizations and why there was quote 243 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: unquote not a wheel invented in those civilizations. The invention 244 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: of the wheel is uh, is a novelty for many 245 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: ancient cultures, unless they have domesticated livestock to pull it. Also, 246 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: the geography of a lot of those mountainous cultures in 247 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: South America did not lend itself to a person hauling 248 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: a wheelbarrow. So these people are not somehow cognitively superior. 249 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: They were just able to make a tool that worked 250 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: with the geography and the biology of the creatures they 251 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: had already conquered. Yeah, because they had oxen, and you 252 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: could have They've figured out how to attach a plow 253 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: to the back of a car with an oxen. So 254 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got wheels, a large animal that can 255 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: pull a lot of weight, and there you go. Now 256 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: you've got plenty of food because you can plant way 257 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: more farming revolution take that Norman borlog. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Wheat, 258 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: get out of your wheat. Um. But so then we 259 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: know around one thousand b C. There's a new thing 260 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: that surfaced and we kind of talked about it a 261 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: little bit, but that's the ability to forge a different metal. Iron. 262 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: That's you know, when you get the iron age, and 263 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: when iron comes around, it's like, hey, you know, bronze 264 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: was cool and everything. We we appreciate you. You did 265 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: a lot for us, But I'm here now, so by um, 266 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: it really was the beginning of something completely different. Uh 267 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: when when the Forging of Iron came around. However, there's 268 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: more to this story. It's not as clean cut as 269 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: a brand new form of metal coming out like a 270 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: brand new iPhone, right, you see. For some reason, instead 271 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: of transitioning peacefully over a gradient, over a spectrum over 272 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: time to the Iron Age, multiple Bronze Age civilizations and 273 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: cultures just imploded. And what are we talking about. We'll 274 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: tell you after a word from our sponsor, and we're back. 275 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: The Bronze Age did not end with a whimper, as 276 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: the old quotation goes, and ended with a bank. It 277 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 1: popped sort of abruptly with the near simultaneous collapse of 278 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: multiple Bronze Age civilizations, the biggest empires in the world. 279 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: Modern day Egypt is like a survivor of this enormous 280 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: human catastrophe. Imagine now, for example, in the modern day, 281 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: imagine if China, the US, Canada, India, and Russia all 282 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: fell within less than a century, within fifty years of 283 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: each other, they became dreams of bygone empire. That's a 284 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: modern day version of exactly what happened during the Bronze Age. Yeah, 285 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: so major Bronze Age civilizations like Mycenaean Greece, UMU, the 286 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: Hittite Empire in Turkey, and ancient Egypt fell within a 287 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: comparatively short period of time. Um. These ancient cities were abandoned. 288 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: The trade routes that we talked about they were so 289 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: important were abandoned as well, were lost, and literacy even 290 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: declined throughout that region. So um, more than just a 291 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: little over thirty two years ago, they all went from 292 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: being huge power players in the world economy of the time, 293 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: world class civilizations, to essentially we refer to today as 294 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: failed states or more so even nonexistent states. Um. And 295 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: you can today find crushed skeletons and scattered remnants and 296 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: debris from you know, artifacts of the time that remain. 297 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: But that's about all there is left of these once 298 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:04,239 Speaker 1: incredibly influential and powerful cities. Yeah, you can see, you 299 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: know where there was something once and archaeologists like like 300 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: you said, have have have found well, I I don't 301 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: want to spoil anything here, Ben, but archaeologists have found 302 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: on a specific layer of soil of ground, essentially all 303 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: in the same layer where all of these various cities 304 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: all went. It seemed to be with fire and some 305 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: kind of great battle or or great terrible thing that 306 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: occurred in all of these cities within a very short 307 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: time span. Um, it's very odd, very very odd. Yeah, 308 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: within as little as the span of a century, which 309 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: is just like a fingersnap. It's it's a it's a 310 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: The span of his century is like a micrometer in 311 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:55,959 Speaker 1: the timeline. But we know that other civilizations have disappeared 312 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: in the past, maybe not at this level, but very 313 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: large populated to places Cojo Kio. We did an episode 314 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: on that ancient cultures in Southeast Asia like modern day Cambodia, 315 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: uh South America as well. Some of those things remain 316 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: at least partially unexplained, but in most of those cases, 317 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: what we're seeing is a single community or a single 318 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: culture or a single civilization being affected. We still have 319 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: serious questions about what could have made so many massive, 320 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:34,239 Speaker 1: successful cultures self destruct all at once, especially when we 321 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: know that they had a vested interest in maintaining a 322 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: status quo to a degree, supporting one another to enable 323 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: the whole to rise. And we're struggling to figure out 324 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: what happened. Here's where it gets crazy. Oh, so over 325 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: the centuries people have been guessing. Multiple scholars have put 326 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: forward multiple arguments of vary incredibility to explain this disturbing 327 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: historical mystery. You know, well, yeah, the first the first 328 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: one we you know, I mentioned they're kind of as 329 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: a spoiler, a precursor to this, that there is a 330 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: layer of ash and a lot of these citadels and 331 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: what we would call cities um back in the day 332 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: that existed around the same time. And one of the 333 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: theories that's been put forth is that some kind of 334 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: natural disaster caused these you know, various cities and civilizations 335 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: to collapse simultaneously. And one of those would be like 336 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: a massive vulcan volcanic eruption or perhaps an earthquake or 337 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: series of those two things occurring. You know, agent people 338 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: didn't have any way to communicate, at least through technology, 339 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: that it is a disaster was coming from some far 340 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: flowing part of the world. But it doesn't mean that 341 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: the disasters couldn't impact them all simultaneously, right, And there 342 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: are a few there are some Egyptologists that have dated 343 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: back the heck Of volcano. It's hecla three volcanic eruption 344 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: that was in Iceland. It occurred in eleven b c E. 345 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: They're saying that possibly it caused this the civilizations to collapse, 346 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: but not because of the eruption itself, because the volcanic 347 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: eruption may have caused a famine that affected this large 348 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,959 Speaker 1: swath of area. Yeah, we have some uh you know, 349 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: we have evidence from Egyptian sources. We know under Ramsey's 350 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: three during the wider overall uh Bronze Age collapse called 351 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: the Late Bronze Age collapse, we we know that the 352 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: rulers of the time were addressing civil unrest and crime, 353 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: and it was tied into famine, right, it was tied 354 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: into migration to people becoming refugees. And I love what 355 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: you said. Man, just because they didn't see an eruption 356 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: in Iceland doesn't mean it didn't screw up the connected 357 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: weather systems equaling less food. And remember, part of the 358 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: reason people were so successful in the Bronze Age and 359 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: this part of the world was entirely because of that 360 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: surplus of food and the positive domino effect, the positive 361 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: feedback loop that creates. Now we're seeing the opposite. It's 362 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: evil twin. We know in eruption of that size could 363 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: definitely impact agriculture. But well, I mean, scholars still of 364 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: course argue back and forth about the degree to which 365 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: that's affected it. Right now, you'll hear a lot of 366 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: people say, well, that one eruption couldn't spell the end 367 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: of you know, multiple empires. It just didn't have the 368 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: size for that. And even if there is this butterfly 369 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: ripple effect, it wouldn't have lasted long enough to destroy 370 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: those empires by itself. But we have to keep in 371 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: mind Volcanic eruptions can also be linked to earthquakes, and 372 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: earthquakes can also do a massive amount of damage in 373 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: a short amount of time. On they can also maybe 374 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: be linked to tsunami, so flooding. We're saying, as you 375 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: can get a combo meal for natural disaster, it doesn't 376 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: always have to be ordered a la cart. Yeah, to 377 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: two meets, two sides, one bread, exactly. I can't, can't. 378 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: Some of those eruptions produce so much ash and nastiness 379 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: that it literally blocks out the sun like for a while. 380 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about. You could essentially disrupt the 381 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: weather systems at a large area, if not the entire 382 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: planner or it's also you know, the ability for crops 383 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: to get you know, the nutrients they need from from 384 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: sunlight and all of that. That's a really good point. Yeah, 385 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: because imagine you're you're a farmer, and you know the 386 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: religions of this time, uh, the ones that are authorized 387 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,719 Speaker 1: by the ruling class. When it comes to the lower class, 388 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: they're entirely meant to keep you farming and feel like 389 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: you're vaguely in trouble and struggling his cultur rules again 390 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: and and so what do you do when this guy 391 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: goes black? Someone has messed something up. You know, you're 392 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: not a vulcanologist. Vulcanologists don't exist. You're you're you're trying 393 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: to grow food. And as politicians are so fond of saying, today, 394 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: feed your family. Uh. And then, just like you said, no, 395 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: the sky goes black. No one knows why. Perhaps and 396 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: then the rain disappears, right, or then the ground start yep, 397 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: and the crops are fallow. Right. You just can't grow 398 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: like you used to. There's a geophysicist named Amost Nerve 399 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 1: from Stanford, and he argues that a string of massive 400 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: earthquakes could have knocked down one of the city states 401 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: after another. You can pull up. I think there's a 402 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: really cool Google Maps layer you can pull up that 403 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: will show you the Bronze Age empires and you can 404 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: see how his argument, Uh, you can see how his 405 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: argument proceeds that these cities fell one by one to earthquakes. 406 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: They didn't have FEMA and have the communication or infrastructure 407 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: resources available in the modern day, so this could have 408 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: brought those empires to a premature And he also and 409 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: I thought this would be interesting, um to historical scholars 410 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: of the Bible in the audience. He he also argues 411 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: that earthquake activity maybe the real life inspiration for the 412 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: biblical prophecy of Armageddon. That's the site of the final 413 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: conflict between good and evil. He says, you know, the 414 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: repeated destruction of the city Moguido, probably at least in 415 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: this almost nurse opinion, he says, it inspired the author 416 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: of Revelation to write his prediction of the apocalypse. Like 417 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: this guy saw an earthquake, experienced that lived through it, 418 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: said this is going to happen again, and out you 419 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: know he uh, he is a co author of one 420 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: of the most famous books of all time. But that's 421 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: a cold comfort, you know. It doesn't get you out 422 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: of an earthquake. Yeah. Yeah, So we're talking, we're talking 423 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: about these various things we've you know, we've gone through 424 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: volcanoes and earthquakes. Well, what if what if for one 425 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: reason or another, it wasn't those things and it was 426 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: just a lack of consistent rain water for the crops 427 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 1: that were so important at the time. What if there 428 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: was a massive drought that ended up causing chaos essentially 429 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: within the civilizations themselves. And uh, you know, is that 430 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: even a possibility. Well, guess what we have good news 431 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: for you. Intelligent people have been studying it. That's right. 432 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: There is an article in the Journal of the Institute 433 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: of Archaeology of Tel Aviv University UM where researchers led 434 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: by a paleonologist, Dafna languet Um, put forth this very theory. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 435 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: Lanna argues that drought led to the collapse of at 436 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: least the ancient Southern levant and that cascaded out to 437 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: the rest of the known world Like this is we 438 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: were talking about the known world at this time. Uh, 439 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: palein Ologists is sort of a word for the word 440 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: of the day for us. I don't know about you guys, 441 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: I didn't know this was a job. It's someone who 442 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,959 Speaker 1: studies ancient pollens. So g cfo with your modern pollens. 443 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: Oh man, it reminds keeps you. Oh that's so specialized. 444 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: I love it someone because I grew up I want 445 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: to study ancient pollens. I'm sorry, what what ancient pollens? No? 446 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: But please, I really feel passionately about it. Dad, there's 447 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: how are you gonna find it? Get out of here? Well? 448 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: You know you dig it up? I guess right, But no, 449 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: that's a good question, dad, Ben how do you find 450 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: ancient pollen samples? I'm so glad you asked, budding, Uh, pollinologists. 451 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: You know a lot of people are gonna tell you 452 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: it's a weird dream. And I've come to your career 453 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: day to let you know that all dreams are kind 454 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: of weird. And there's no reason that you should knock 455 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: this one out of the running. Look at all the 456 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: pollen around today. It had to come from somewhere. Start digging, 457 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: Start reading to start digging. Uh, if you take you know, 458 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to get I don't want to get 459 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: lost in the weeds. Your kids on how you actually 460 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: find these things? But you can if you dig through 461 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: the layers of soil in places that had pollen producing 462 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: plants right on a regular basis, then you can take 463 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,479 Speaker 1: samples of those the same way you take samples of 464 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: tree right at different chronicles in its own uh dendo chronology, 465 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: and then you can find what Lingek calls the fingerprints 466 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: of plants. Pollen grains are the fingerprints and plants. They 467 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: can help scientists reconstruct the ancient natural vegetation, past climate conditions. 468 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: So I say to you in this in the simprov scene, 469 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: I say to you, go forward, start collecting all the 470 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: pollen you can, and remember that one day we don't 471 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: have to just think about you as a pollenologist. Now 472 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: we can think about those who come after you. So 473 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: save the pollen for them. You may end up being there, carlineus. 474 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: You may end up being there, Charles Darwin. Well, it's 475 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: so interesting though, because I mean, these are fossils, this 476 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: is part of the fossil record. They're just really really 477 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: tiny fossils um, And and you're right, they act as 478 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: kind of like a fingerprint in the same way maybe 479 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: ice cores only obviously much much smaller do for um, 480 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, studying the layers of of collected ice, and 481 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: that core tells the story and pollen does the same thing, 482 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,239 Speaker 1: and it's a story about past climate. Yeah, and we 483 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: can paint a pretty accurate picture. Of course, the only 484 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: way we can know whether it's a d percent accurate 485 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: is to travel back there. Uh And unless you believe 486 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: that paper by that recent undergrad there's not a way 487 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: to time travel yet that's a that's the story for strange. 488 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,959 Speaker 1: So so right now we know that there's we know 489 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: that this research shows a very specific, very sharp decline 490 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: in the vegetation that up until that point was common. 491 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: The scientists led by Languet found that in twelve fifty 492 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: b C, the traditional plant life of the Mediterranean, the 493 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: Late Bronze Age, seemed to just take a nose dive, 494 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: just bear and in its place they saw plants that 495 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: you would find in semi desert areas. Yeah, and that 496 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: was in like carol trees, pine trees, oak tree, these 497 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: they're out there. And um, they also noticed that there 498 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: was a huge drop in olive trees, you know, and 499 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: that is a major thing that is being produced out 500 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: there for food sources and and for other reasons. And 501 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: there's any there's an indication that horticulture in general, at 502 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: in that area at the time was on the decline, right, 503 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: And really what the team came away with is that 504 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: the region was in the grip of serious regular droughts 505 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: within a drought season that lasted for several seasons essentially 506 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: um and the dates of researchers came up with via 507 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: all this pollen analysis that they went through, they correspond 508 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: pretty darn well with a few remaining historical records that 509 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, scientists and humanity has of that period, and 510 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: they all a lot of those, by the way, mentioned 511 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: shortages of gray means, so you know, all this this 512 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: seems to be, like Ben said, painting a pretty clear 513 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: picture of no matter what was going on, this was 514 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: a significant factor. Right. It's spooky to build a puzzle 515 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: of this size. We're finding puzzle pieces in the twenty 516 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: century that connect with puzzle pieces from five thousand, like 517 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: from thousands, three thousands so years ago. That's that's a 518 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: lot of work. That's one hell of a jigsaw. And 519 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: the thing about these scant historical records is that they're 520 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: pretty informative for what they are, also pretty cryptic, and 521 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: they don't just mention shortages of grain. We're going to 522 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: pause for word from our sponsor, and as long as 523 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: our civilization doesn't collapse in the next couple of minutes 524 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: or so, uh, then will return and put some more 525 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: puzzle pieces of the Bronze Age collapse together, and we're 526 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: back off air. We were having a little conversation about 527 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: our earlier, our earlier great question. What's the name for 528 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: this age? Uh know, you proposed the plastics age. We 529 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: talked about information age, because I do think information is 530 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: a substance. Uh. Silicon age was the first one Matt 531 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: put forth. Silican age or computer age. Some people are 532 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: calling it new media age, which all goes to show 533 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: we don't we don't know what future historians are going 534 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,919 Speaker 1: to call it. They might just latch onto one thing 535 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: and they might be calling it the Furby Age. Like 536 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: the most technologically significant invention of these ancient benighted people 537 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: was our one true God, the Furbye, and that'll be 538 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: how we're known by our descendants on Mars in the 539 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: moon and when when when it ends up being the 540 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 1: age that leads to the destruction of all civilization, Maybe 541 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: we could refer to it as the idiot age. The 542 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: Apocalypse A. I don't know, just call it just call 543 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: it the last A. Yeah, yeah, like that old that old, 544 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: that old joke. I think it was from one of 545 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: the chants about candle Jack. Do you guys remember that 546 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: you can't say his name or he anyway? It's okay 547 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 1: mean but yeah, the zoom frozen he got me. Um. 548 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: But what's so what's so interesting about that name? Aside 549 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: is that you know, we have to remember any fans 550 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: of literature. One thing that's infuriating is that, uh, several 551 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: while backs, uh some time ago, not as far back 552 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: as the Bronze Age, someone got the bright idea to 553 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: call a certain school of literature modernism, and what do 554 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: they call the next one postmodernism? We can't. We can't 555 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: name stuff like that. It's the same with music genre. 556 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: Just like you got rock, then you got post rock, 557 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: which is basically just like minimalist rock with it's got guitars, 558 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 1: doesn't really have many changes, it's a lot of It's 559 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: like ambient music and rock and roll had like a 560 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: weird slow child, or the same with punk and post punk. 561 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,439 Speaker 1: What even is I guess post punk is just punk 562 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: that's a little more intelligent I I don't know, it's 563 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: interesting all of those terms. You guys, when do you 564 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: think we're going to reach the post war stage? Do 565 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: you think that's going to happen, Yeah, yeah, when humanity 566 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: is Actually no, it will still happen after humanity has 567 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: gone because by that point the machines and algorithms we've 568 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: made will continue fighting an entirely automated war. But eventually 569 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: they'll need repairs um and if they are successful enough 570 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: at self repairing, then if they extend past the Solar system, 571 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: the death of the Sun won't matter. So I guess 572 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: by the heat death of the universe will definitely be 573 00:36:53,880 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: in a post war economy. Yes, the universus ended, but 574 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: we fixed the economy. Good news, bad news, right, which 575 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 1: the first You're right, the war is a fundamental piece 576 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: of this. And that's why I really appreciate one of 577 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: the things you point out there, Matt, when you said, immediately, 578 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,439 Speaker 1: of course some bright bulb uh, well, we can't say 579 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 1: bold there were no light bulbs, some some bright candle 580 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: around that bronze Discovery campfire. Said we could we could 581 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: use this to do amazing things. We could build plumbing, 582 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, we could like probably make some medical improvements, 583 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: or we could kill like everybody, you guys, she keep 584 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,760 Speaker 1: that's the last resort, though, gotta be a last resort. 585 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: Surely there's another way, right, And everyone's like yeah, yeah, yeah, 586 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, totally totally yeah, totally just just not me, right, 587 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm good. Okay, Yeah, you're great, dude, you 588 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: like put together the fire, come on, man. So so 589 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: uh yeah, let's just do a show with historical re 590 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,720 Speaker 1: enactments that we make up. We touched that one time 591 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: behind the scenes. By the way, it was still great. 592 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 1: It was such a great idea, and no it was 593 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: it was not drunk history. Uh, it was weirder anyway. War. 594 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: The reason we're talking about it is because it is 595 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: unfortunately a very common process in human history, the fall 596 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: of a status quo or a stable government for some reason. 597 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: Regardless of how good or fair or how terrible or 598 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,919 Speaker 1: authoritarian that structure might be, it inevitably leads to violence. Right. 599 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: It's the equivalent of removing those painted lines, those silly 600 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: painted lines that we have on the interstate highways. They 601 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: actually do reduce accidents, uh, not just as a visual aid, 602 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: but because they remind people of these intangible laws that 603 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: we all obey because we feel as though they are 604 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: constantly applied, and of course they're not. It's just in 605 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: general people tend to agree that those are good things. 606 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: So now those laws are removed, and people then just 607 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,439 Speaker 1: like people now, started doing doing whatever they wish when 608 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: those laws were not in play, especially when they felt 609 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,879 Speaker 1: like they were fighting for their own survival. That's why 610 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: the collapse of le Bronze Age is marked by what 611 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: would be described as a an upticking crime in the 612 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: modern world, and that is a very diluted milk soast 613 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: way to say it. We're talking about is widespread pillaging, 614 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: disruption of those precious international trade routes, civil unrest, let's 615 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 1: find Let's get that bastard, the king. He's had it 616 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: coming to him and I don't think his God is 617 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: going to stop us this time war over diminishing resources. 618 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: One of the biggest mysteries here that we we may 619 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: have to dedicate an entire episode two is the emergence 620 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: of a mysterious seafaring confederation. You could call them known 621 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 1: as the Sea People's. They're like, uh, they're like Matt 622 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: Max esque raiders in this scenario, or they're like um 623 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: in water World, they're like the smokers. They were going 624 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:36,760 Speaker 1: to these stable, relatively stable but struggling uh thoughts of civilization, 625 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: and they were just running through them. And then that 626 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: you couldn't catch them because they were back on the votes. 627 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 1: They were gone and onto the next city. Yeah, it 628 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 1: becomes a pretty horrifying vision thinking about the quote See 629 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: People's and I'll tell you why, And quick shout out 630 00:40:55,560 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: to the podcast Fall of Civilizations for an episode they 631 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,240 Speaker 1: did on similar topic here about the Bronze Age collapse. 632 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 1: They did a great job of explaining the the very 633 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: small descriptions that exist out there for the Sea People's 634 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: and it sounds weird. They it sounds, I think the 635 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: way they put on the podcast like a monster from 636 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: the deep. When you hear the Sea People's, it sounds like, 637 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: what are those mermon is that we're talking about? Are 638 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: we talking about something from you know, creatures from below 639 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: the water that emerged and attacked these towns and pillaged them. Um, No, 640 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: we're not, at least I don't certainly don't think so. 641 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: But there is so little evidence about what they actually 642 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: did and so few descriptions that it becomes I don't 643 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: know more of a more of a nightmare than I 644 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 1: guess it needs to be, yeah, because we know there, 645 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: like we the descriptions that we find are uh sometimes 646 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:04,240 Speaker 1: it's terrified. The translations are like these plaintive things from 647 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: one authority to another saying, look, uh, my armies are 648 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: in the capital that is way way in land right 649 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: see the Hittites for example. And then uh, my ships 650 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: whatever would pass from my naval force is way over here, 651 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 1: far to the west of me, and they can't get 652 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 1: there in time. There's an exact quote where one authority says, thus, 653 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: the lands are prostrate to these raiders. There's no one 654 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,319 Speaker 1: to defend them, you know what I mean. There's not 655 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,360 Speaker 1: like a police force at this time that can stand 656 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: up to reavers like this. And the thing is that 657 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: the cause of the difficulties of transmitting both information and resources, uh, 658 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 1: they would these empires would often find out after the 659 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: fact that someone had destroyed a trade hub, or a 660 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: city um or a or a holy place. And this 661 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: this uh devastated the many of these empires. The Sea 662 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: People's did lose campaigns at times, but they kept coming ramseys. Three. 663 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: I think we mentioned he's got some He's got some 664 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: inscriptions that people have recovered, uh and Thebes, and in 665 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: those inscriptions in Mortuary Temple, you can find sources recounting 666 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: at least three different legitimate victories against the Sea People's. 667 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: But again, that's Egypt. One thing you need to remember 668 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 1: about Egypt in this period is that Egypt kind of survived. 669 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: There's still a country called Egypt. It's not a country called, 670 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,439 Speaker 1: you know, home of the Hittites. But that, I will 671 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 1: say that is a number one on my list or 672 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: what they should have been called, just like hyphenated maybe 673 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 1: or maybe it all want work called home of the Hittites. 674 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: Love it and I like that is one word. Yeah, 675 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: so we um again we can we can say that 676 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,840 Speaker 1: there is a wealth of insightful and valuable literature and 677 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: research into the ultimate identity of what is commonly called 678 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 1: the Sea People's. The reason that everybody speaking English and 679 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 1: French definitely has been using this phrase for so long 680 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: is that it comes from a French egyptologist named Emmanuel 681 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: de Rouge, who who kind of coined the term, and 682 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: then someone else popularized it and it started circulating in 683 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: the cannon because it answered a question a lot of 684 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 1: scientists and unrelated fields had had for a long long time. Uh, 685 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: they're also the explanation, they're one of the main explanations 686 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: for that common disaster, soil. I guess we could call 687 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 1: it disaster sentiment, right, the one groove of the historical 688 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: record that is food bar as the acronym. Well that 689 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: that showed clearly there was a massive fire here and 690 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 1: bodies were just in streets and you know, in in 691 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: houses in that same time. It's really disturbing stuff. So 692 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 1: so we've kind of been looking at these things individually, 693 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 1: is as causes, right, But as we know just throughout history, 694 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,040 Speaker 1: just because you're dealing with one disaster one bad thing, 695 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: doesn't mean another one can't come up. Right, we're dealing 696 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: with that right now. We've got a we've got three 697 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 1: handfuls at least of disasters that are hitting the globe 698 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: right now. And why would it be any different during 699 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: the Bronze Age, right, Yeah, because we've been we've been 700 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: perhaps a little uh uh, a little misleading where we're 701 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: we're we're presenting these problems we said, natural disasters like 702 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 1: ongoing drought, like earthquakes like volcanoes, human problems like war 703 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: or the fact that humans are often just inherently greedy, 704 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 1: bad people, or or you just what um unrest within cities, 705 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 1: right yeah, and competing for things? Right? Why should why 706 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 1: should my children die such that yours can live? You 707 00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 1: know that's not an even trade to me, says the 708 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 1: other person with kids. Uh So, each of these explanations alone, 709 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: taken by their themselves in a vacuum. They've all happened before, right, 710 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: A lot of them are happening now, as you said, Matt, 711 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: in the modern age, but these often were, These were 712 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 1: happening in the Bronze Age, but they weren't all happening 713 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,319 Speaker 1: at once. Because these all happened, and these cultures, the 714 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:55,280 Speaker 1: world's first stable, long term international trade network survived, weathered 715 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: every storm. But experts are arguing, I thing is very 716 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 1: clever that what happened is humanity met a storm and 717 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: had never seen before. It met a perfect storm. It 718 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 1: met an insidious geopolitical domino effect that probably, yes, began 719 00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: with the natural world. I think we can determine that. 720 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: But but when we see it, it's got spooky parallels. Right. So, 721 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: climate change, whether it's an eruption, whether it's something abrupt 722 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 1: like a natural disaster eruption, whether it's a slow cycle 723 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,360 Speaker 1: that maybe has nothing to do with humans, it leads 724 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: to political instability that leads to a rise in crime. 725 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,839 Speaker 1: I mean, that's why the historian Robert Drew's calls this 726 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,040 Speaker 1: the Late Bronze Age collapse. He calls it the worst 727 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,120 Speaker 1: disaster in ancient history, more calamitous than the collapse of 728 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,359 Speaker 1: the Western Roman Empire. And people are saying that, like 729 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: the see people's didn't just you know, wake up and say, yeah, 730 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: you know, I know, we usually fish, but what if 731 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,719 Speaker 1: we just sacked. What if we just or something like that. 732 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: What if we guys, guys, what if we get into 733 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:11,240 Speaker 1: pilloging like in a big way and the other people 734 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:15,360 Speaker 1: on the boat didn't look around and just go yeah, 735 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,239 Speaker 1: and maybe they did. I'm gonna start a gang. It's 736 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: called the Sea Boys, and we're gonna sorry, I was 737 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,239 Speaker 1: just gonna, I was just gonna put forth. Why can't 738 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,400 Speaker 1: we just simplify and just call them the sea people, 739 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, the people from the sea. I just I 740 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: think that's just a little more straightforward. The idea of 741 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: the sea people's just makes it seem too too academic. 742 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: Let's let's let's have some fun with him. But you're 743 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,279 Speaker 1: making Yes, you're making a great point, Ben. They didn't 744 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: just decide to do it. It was because they were 745 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,839 Speaker 1: facing some kind of issue, likely from the natural world, 746 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,600 Speaker 1: like you're saying, like a drought, unable to feed their 747 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,400 Speaker 1: families on and they had to go and find something. 748 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: And when they couldn't trade or they couldn't find a 749 00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: viable way to do it peacefully, Doon, the option then 750 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 1: was to take by force, or at least perhaps it 751 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,439 Speaker 1: was the thought that the only option was to take 752 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:11,840 Speaker 1: what they needed by force. Again, the parallels freaking me 753 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 1: out a little bit exactly. I mean, think about it. So, uh, 754 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,280 Speaker 1: this the positive domino effect we mentioned earlier. Right, stable 755 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,680 Speaker 1: populations are creating more food, right, and so those they 756 00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 1: don't naturally want to go out into the wild. And 757 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,360 Speaker 1: I would hope if people are people are creatures of 758 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: convenience and necessity, right, So it's it's relatively anomalous for 759 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,839 Speaker 1: a group to just to to just decide to kill 760 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,200 Speaker 1: people for fun rather than to kill them for resources 761 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,719 Speaker 1: or something like that. So these stable populations during the 762 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 1: heyday of the Bronze Age, they are dependent on producing 763 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,719 Speaker 1: food or importing food for their own consumption and then 764 00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,920 Speaker 1: possibly exporting it across trade networks for other things they 765 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:05,040 Speaker 1: can't get, And so when they can't grow crops, they 766 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,839 Speaker 1: cannot participate in that trade network, and most importantly, they 767 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,440 Speaker 1: cannot feed themselves. That's the whole reason they're living in 768 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: this area, right, So they have to look for some 769 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: other means of sustenance. But the problem is, unless they're 770 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,839 Speaker 1: the very first people who became these migrants and refugees, 771 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,440 Speaker 1: other people have already hit the road. Other people have 772 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,399 Speaker 1: been down these tracks before, been down this road before, 773 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,320 Speaker 1: if you're a Hank Williams senior fan, and they have 774 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 1: done the same. And they already knew about these pre 775 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,799 Speaker 1: existing trade routes. They already knew where the ports were, 776 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,279 Speaker 1: they already knew where the cities were. The people who 777 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 1: are already pushed into a nomadic existence are therefore either 778 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,760 Speaker 1: laying weight in established migration routes and waiting to pounce 779 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:55,840 Speaker 1: on merchants and families and refugees, or they hopped in 780 00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,279 Speaker 1: their boats, perhaps driven by necessity, and decided to that 781 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,759 Speaker 1: they instead of waiting for something to be given to them, 782 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,000 Speaker 1: they would take it by any means necessary, and morality 783 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,760 Speaker 1: doesn't really enter the equation when you're talking about survival. 784 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,879 Speaker 1: And then think about it on a worldwide scale. Now, 785 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,200 Speaker 1: we think about cities and empires as individuals, right, we 786 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,239 Speaker 1: know that city states don't really have friends, Empires don't 787 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,840 Speaker 1: really have friends, they have alliances. So these entire, uh, 788 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,560 Speaker 1: these entire groups of people are shifting into militarism. They're 789 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:34,960 Speaker 1: already probably pretty militaristic, but but they're protecting their own defenses, right, 790 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: their upper classes and their mid tiers from pillagers. And 791 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,040 Speaker 1: they're also trying to send out their military forces to 792 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,120 Speaker 1: wage wars, wars of acquisition of other resources, perhaps wars 793 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 1: of protection against these mysterious see peoples who keep getting away. 794 00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,920 Speaker 1: And it happens. This is the scariest part. It happens 795 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,240 Speaker 1: very very quickly, you know what I mean. Uh, these 796 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:03,880 Speaker 1: longstanding treaties thrown awake. Egypt retreats into itself, right because 797 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,680 Speaker 1: it needs to. It needs to tamp down domestic unrest. 798 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,879 Speaker 1: You have to fix your own house before you fix 799 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,319 Speaker 1: someone else's. Just think about what we're saying and describing here, 800 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:20,480 Speaker 1: just overlay it on. They started start in the late 801 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:27,520 Speaker 1: nineties and just like, oh God, during this time, someone 802 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,600 Speaker 1: figured out how to make iron. Oh there you go. 803 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 1: I guess what. I guess what the military has. They've 804 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,840 Speaker 1: just come out. They're saying that they think fusion is 805 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,120 Speaker 1: definitely going to be a thing. Now. They're like just 806 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,880 Speaker 1: talking about it openly. Yeah, fusion, you know, for power, 807 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,759 Speaker 1: fusion for power. It's only gonna be for power. It's 808 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:51,080 Speaker 1: gonna be fine, Are you serious? Yeah, Uh, it's all good. 809 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,239 Speaker 1: The first round of fusion bombs, we just gotta wait 810 00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 1: for that. That's that's somebody making the first iron and going, oh, 811 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:05,279 Speaker 1: those are those are fusion bombs for peace. But then 812 00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,680 Speaker 1: we get some who who gets them? You know, who 813 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,160 Speaker 1: gets the fusion bombs got? I don't know. It's the 814 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,440 Speaker 1: same with like these weapons. You know, it's all about 815 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,000 Speaker 1: who who figured it out first, and then you know, 816 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,400 Speaker 1: people backwards engineer things. I'm sure both sides of these, 817 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: uh these conflicts had similar weapons, but maybe the upper 818 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 1: hand goes to the ones that figured it out a 819 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,080 Speaker 1: little better. I don't know. Yeah, and then they get 820 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: all the oil and you know, last until it all 821 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:39,839 Speaker 1: burns out and the yeah, yeah, and this is uh there, 822 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,560 Speaker 1: this is the the Spook is part of this story 823 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: now if we want to give it a little bit 824 00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:49,799 Speaker 1: of an epilogue. Yes, the area entered dark age. You know, 825 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:54,319 Speaker 1: the closest thing we had to global civilization full stop collapsed. Uh. 826 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,320 Speaker 1: And you know, Noel, you raised the point earlier about 827 00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:03,160 Speaker 1: the collapse and education literacy bottomed out, right? Who has 828 00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,840 Speaker 1: time to learn to read? I am trying to avoid 829 00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,600 Speaker 1: these pillagers impossible cannibals. I just threw cannibals in there, 830 00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:12,919 Speaker 1: and now it's who has time to read? I'm being 831 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:17,600 Speaker 1: distracted by these cat videos. I mean, I was joking 832 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,120 Speaker 1: at the top of the show about this maybe being 833 00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:21,640 Speaker 1: the new dark I don't know. It makes me think 834 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,680 Speaker 1: of that movie Idiocracy, which is all about a breakdown 835 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:29,239 Speaker 1: in education, a breakdown and intelligence leading to a breakdown 836 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,040 Speaker 1: in civilization and society as we know it because people 837 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 1: can't solve problems anymore. People don't think about how to 838 00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,719 Speaker 1: fix these, you know, existential threats that face them. Uh. 839 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,120 Speaker 1: And that's when really hits the fan. And this is 840 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:46,360 Speaker 1: our denue mole, right, there is our epilogue. Eventually, the 841 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:52,880 Speaker 1: seasonal reigns return, and experts believe that this eventually again 842 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,680 Speaker 1: lead the descendants of some of those uprooted groups we 843 00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:00,000 Speaker 1: talked about to settle down once again. But make no mistake, 844 00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:06,319 Speaker 1: history was forever and permanently stunted by this collapse. We 845 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,839 Speaker 1: have no idea where the world would be if this 846 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,560 Speaker 1: had not occurred, right, Like, part of the reason we 847 00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,120 Speaker 1: are making this podcast now, part of the reason podcast 848 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:22,359 Speaker 1: exists is because thousands of years ago, the world as 849 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:27,440 Speaker 1: we knew it burned the down Like. That's true. And 850 00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:34,239 Speaker 1: most importantly, we can't mistake this from some for some 851 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 1: like long ago story from some dusty tome or I 852 00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:43,360 Speaker 1: guess some dusty time before books, some dusty tablets or hieroglyph. 853 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,960 Speaker 1: We we should, and I think we must take this 854 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:50,120 Speaker 1: as a parable. It's a warning about the fragility inherent 855 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,480 Speaker 1: to all human civilization. Civilization is a covenant. It is 856 00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,920 Speaker 1: an agreement, and it only works so long as the 857 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:02,759 Speaker 1: majority of people agree that it works. Otherwise it's just 858 00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,680 Speaker 1: like a thing we thought was a good idea at 859 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:11,120 Speaker 1: the time, like, uh, you know, police Academy for it? 860 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,160 Speaker 1: Has anyone? Has anyone been watching the new season of 861 00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,319 Speaker 1: Fargo It just started the other night? Oh no, I 862 00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,200 Speaker 1: can't wait. Well, I'm gonna This isn't really a spoiler, 863 00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,359 Speaker 1: but it's sort of about warring groups, warring factions, and 864 00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,640 Speaker 1: they have this ritual and this agreement where they essentially 865 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,680 Speaker 1: one faction whether it's the Italians and the Irish or 866 00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,200 Speaker 1: African American gang comes in in the present day of 867 00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 1: the show, which is like the fifties versus the Italians, 868 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,480 Speaker 1: and they have this ritual where in order to kind 869 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,960 Speaker 1: of make peace quote unquote, they exchange the youngest child 870 00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,120 Speaker 1: and and each of them raised the other's youngest child. 871 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,319 Speaker 1: And again there's ritual involved in that, and it's an 872 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,799 Speaker 1: inherent like agreement and a compact. But do you know 873 00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,759 Speaker 1: people don't always hold up there into the bargain and 874 00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,000 Speaker 1: and otherwise if they did, you wouldn't have a show. Um, 875 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 1: that's the same with history. You know, people often you know, 876 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,680 Speaker 1: make these agreements and then decide, you know, and actually, 877 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,040 Speaker 1: I think we're just gonna kill all of you. And 878 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,960 Speaker 1: to this, like what we're talking about when we talk 879 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:18,560 Speaker 1: about this dissolution of society is, uh, we're proposing essentially 880 00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:23,120 Speaker 1: what's what's called a general systems collapse. The argument is 881 00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,800 Speaker 1: that we made so much progress as a species during 882 00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,480 Speaker 1: the Bronze Age, that we built a system that was 883 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:32,320 Speaker 1: too intricate to fix, like we didn't know how to 884 00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,720 Speaker 1: fix it when parts of it started breaking. If it 885 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,320 Speaker 1: was if it was disrupted, then we didn't have anybody 886 00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,000 Speaker 1: with the vantage point to say, okay, look, what we 887 00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:46,720 Speaker 1: need to do is to first off, maintain the trade routes. 888 00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,360 Speaker 1: Let's let's do that. Everybody was panicking because the building 889 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,160 Speaker 1: was on fire and we had built everything except for 890 00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:58,440 Speaker 1: a fire escape basically socio politically, and so now we 891 00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,240 Speaker 1: see that the things that happened in the order in 892 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:06,080 Speaker 1: which they occurred, they exposed existing flaws in the system. 893 00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:09,280 Speaker 1: The reason that is important is because it can happen 894 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:14,600 Speaker 1: again right. One of the questions that I think I 895 00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:16,640 Speaker 1: think we'd have to ask is do you think experts 896 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:20,320 Speaker 1: are missing another explanation for the bizarre story of the 897 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:25,560 Speaker 1: late Bronze Age collapse, this weird murder mystery of a civilization? 898 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:27,920 Speaker 1: And what do you think we can learn about it 899 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,640 Speaker 1: in the modern day? Like what what can we do? 900 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,040 Speaker 1: We are The easy argument that a lot of people 901 00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:37,200 Speaker 1: would make is that we are somehow better armed because 902 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:43,680 Speaker 1: we have vastly uh more sophisticated information uh technology and dissemination. 903 00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,600 Speaker 1: But how much of an advantage is that really? Like 904 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,720 Speaker 1: to your point about cat videos, Noll, how much UH 905 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:55,520 Speaker 1: does knowing? Does the potential of knowing almost everything mean 906 00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,840 Speaker 1: that it will be applied in a useful way? I 907 00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:02,600 Speaker 1: think that's a logical miss up. Yeah, absolutely is. I 908 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,160 Speaker 1: think we've seen that too much information leads people to 909 00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: silo their education and and and and you do what 910 00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,120 Speaker 1: only seek out what only suits them as opposed to 911 00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:14,360 Speaker 1: you know, because you have do you used to have 912 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,200 Speaker 1: to work for knowledge, You used to have to work 913 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,040 Speaker 1: for you know, this access to it was a very 914 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,880 Speaker 1: exclusive thing, and now everyone has it and nobody appreciates it. 915 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,200 Speaker 1: So what do you guys think is is the safest 916 00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:31,920 Speaker 1: way to ensure your family's survival in uh any coming 917 00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,280 Speaker 1: disaster or collapse of our society? UH? Is the safest 918 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:40,920 Speaker 1: way to become a nuclear fusion engineer? Maybe we're just 919 00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:46,200 Speaker 1: play play the video games superliminal, Like right now, everybody, 920 00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:50,760 Speaker 1: go play the video games superliminal and start thinking the 921 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,760 Speaker 1: way that game forces you to think. And then I 922 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,800 Speaker 1: think we'll all get to a place where we can 923 00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,919 Speaker 1: solve any problem that's ever presented to us. I haven't 924 01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,720 Speaker 1: heard of Superliminal. Well, if you haven't heard of it, 925 01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,280 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not getting paid to tell you this, 926 01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,200 Speaker 1: but you should play it for sure. It is a 927 01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:15,080 Speaker 1: puzzle game and it's it's it forces you to change 928 01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,240 Speaker 1: your perspective literally and figuratively, which is why I think 929 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,200 Speaker 1: it would it's important. It could be a Yeah, that's 930 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,280 Speaker 1: why you could be applied here because you know, to 931 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,800 Speaker 1: to find find answers to some of these major problems 932 01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,240 Speaker 1: that we face, as in, you know, a global civilization 933 01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,760 Speaker 1: right now. We just have to think about things differently, 934 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,200 Speaker 1: and it's very difficult for humans to do that. And 935 01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,560 Speaker 1: what are your coping mechanisms, folks? What are your heuristics 936 01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:43,480 Speaker 1: for what has sometimes been called the end of history? 937 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,040 Speaker 1: I think, well, I think we'll soldier on because I 938 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,720 Speaker 1: have to. But but let it let us know. What 939 01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:52,800 Speaker 1: do you think we can learn from the Bronze Age collapse? 940 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,960 Speaker 1: Do you think something like this could slash would happen now? 941 01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,000 Speaker 1: And if so, how would it play out? We would 942 01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:59,800 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. You can find us on 943 01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,360 Speaker 1: the internet as long as that thing is still around. 944 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,280 Speaker 1: Hopefully We're on Instagram, We're on Facebook, We're on Twitter, 945 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,680 Speaker 1: we recommend here's where it gets crazy, just joined up 946 01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,200 Speaker 1: by saying, uh, typing in Knowle's name or Matt's name, 947 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:17,200 Speaker 1: super producer, code name, Doc Holiday or superproducer mission control, 948 01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:22,240 Speaker 1: my name, dropped me upon something that makes me laugh, um, 949 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,919 Speaker 1: or just you know, in a witty way, illustrates the 950 01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,360 Speaker 1: darkness of civilization. Yeah. And and in the event that 951 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,000 Speaker 1: we do have some sort of like escape from l 952 01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,920 Speaker 1: a esque situation where you know, the Internet disappears and 953 01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,280 Speaker 1: all electronics, uh, this is well, this wouldn't really work. Um, 954 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,720 Speaker 1: never mind forget to work through the landline. Okay, there 955 01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:44,440 Speaker 1: you go. That's what I was getting at. Ben, Thank 956 01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,840 Speaker 1: you for rescuing me. You can give us a call 957 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,920 Speaker 1: on a landline, presuming that that infrastructure hasn't been never 958 01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,600 Speaker 1: that's just too depressing. One three three st d W 959 01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,600 Speaker 1: I t K is that number? UM, reach out to us. 960 01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,480 Speaker 1: You can leave us a voicemail. Well that part won't 961 01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,360 Speaker 1: never oicemail won't work in but you know what this 962 01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,240 Speaker 1: is all just we're just spitballing here. Everything's fine for now. 963 01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,360 Speaker 1: Leave us a voicemail. Keep it roughly around three minutes 964 01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,160 Speaker 1: so that we can have a nice concise story we 965 01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:12,400 Speaker 1: can use on one of our weekly listener mail episodes. 966 01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,040 Speaker 1: And be sure and let us know if it's okay 967 01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,880 Speaker 1: to use your story and play your actual voice on 968 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:18,840 Speaker 1: the show. And if you want us to call you 969 01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,440 Speaker 1: something specific or not use your name or be anonymous, 970 01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,080 Speaker 1: We're all about that. UM. Love to hear from you. 971 01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,280 Speaker 1: And if you happen to enjoy looking at faces while 972 01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,560 Speaker 1: you hear voices talk to you, you can head over 973 01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:33,000 Speaker 1: to YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. Don't look at 974 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,080 Speaker 1: Ben's face right now if you're if you're hearing the 975 01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:39,440 Speaker 1: don't oh oh hants? Why do I get that it 976 01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:44,440 Speaker 1: was that specific face? Um? Yeah, but YouTube dot YouTube 977 01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,680 Speaker 1: dot com slash conspiracy Stuff. That's our channel. Subscribe, Tell 978 01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,520 Speaker 1: your friends we're going to be putting these up there, 979 01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:54,120 Speaker 1: these conversations, and there will be other things on the 980 01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,680 Speaker 1: way to you as soon as we can get them 981 01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,880 Speaker 1: to you. Just be prepared. And if none of the 982 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,880 Speaker 1: at quite bags your badgers or collapses your bronze age, 983 01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:08,720 Speaker 1: as long as the as long as the electricity is 984 01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,000 Speaker 1: moving and the great sky net and the sky stays there, 985 01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:15,880 Speaker 1: you can always contact us through a good old fashioned 986 01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:38,800 Speaker 1: email address where we are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. 987 01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,000 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 988 01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:44,160 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart radio, 989 01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,320 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 990 01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:48,520 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.