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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Happy Friday, everybody. I'm Holly Fry, I'm Dracy B.

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Speaker 2: Wilson.

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Speaker 1: We're laughing because apparently I'm on another planet today. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm just my time of things is weird. I'm having

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Speaker 1: a moment I would to tell.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're just We're recording in the afternoon, which is

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Speaker 2: not typical. I'm just back from some time off during

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Speaker 2: which I forgot how to do anything involving my job,

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Speaker 2: and I also have a newly issued work computer which

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Speaker 2: has thrown everything off listen.

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Speaker 1: I'm also just excited in Wiggley because we have behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes where we get to talk about one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite things, which is patterns and sewing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in the middle of a giant sewing project

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Speaker 1: right now, making a wedding dress for a friend, So

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Speaker 1: I'm like sewing all the time when I'm not doing

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Speaker 1: my job, and that just makes me want to talk

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Speaker 1: about sewing all the time. We talked about so much

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Speaker 1: stuff in this episode.

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Speaker 2: It was a lot. I have so many things to

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Speaker 2: comment on.

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Speaker 1: Have you you mentioned I think it was while we

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Speaker 1: were recording your mom having various tools. Yeah, to do

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Speaker 1: scaling up of patterns. Have you ever done it?

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Speaker 2: I have not. Well, it's a pain in the toukis

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Speaker 2: it seemed like it would be. I don't like it.

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Speaker 2: So my mom taught me to sew. Taught me to

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Speaker 2: sew with patterns. So I learned the things like figuring

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Speaker 2: out what size you are, and you know, how to

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Speaker 2: how to cut out that size from the pattern, and

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Speaker 2: in we always saved the pattern for future use. So

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Speaker 2: I probably could have, like if I was trying to

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Speaker 2: make something from a pattern I had used before, but

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Speaker 2: I had gone up a size, I might have been

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Speaker 2: able with my mom's help to like work that out.

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Speaker 2: But but the like the idea of you know, starting

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Speaker 2: from a sort of template and turning that into a

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Speaker 2: thing that needed to be sized up for a person

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Speaker 2: that would have relied on some skills that I struggle with. Uh,

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Speaker 2: And I never got that far. I don't know that

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Speaker 2: I would have needed to get that far in my

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Speaker 2: sewing education, but I did not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember once getting into a long and protracted

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Speaker 1: argument on a sewing and costuming message board. That's how

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Speaker 1: far back we're going that I ran with someone because

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Speaker 1: I had had mentioned I had made a garment for Brian,

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Speaker 1: a historical like a Victorian coat, and I was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is like an easily gettable pattern, like and this

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Speaker 1: one person was just adamant that I should not be

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Speaker 1: recommending people use modern patterns. I should only be recommending

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Speaker 1: that they hand draft from existing pattern and I was like, okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: yes that's more accurate, but like that that is something

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Speaker 1: that not everybody has the skill or interest in doing.

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Speaker 1: And they were like, anyone can do it, you just

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Speaker 1: have to learn it. And I'm like, anyone can, but

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Speaker 1: not everybody wants to, like, and it just went on

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Speaker 1: and on for like a month of back and forth.

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Speaker 1: I should have just tapped out earlier, but it was

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Speaker 1: making me crazy anyway. Yeah, scaling up patterns is a

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Speaker 1: big pain in the tukis. And I will say this,

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Speaker 1: this relates to the koalas, which are an ongoing process.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I have made one of the koalas, I have the

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Speaker 1: fabric for the others and haven't gotten to them yet

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Speaker 1: because of this wedding dress progress.

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Speaker 2: If you're like, what are these koalas because you haven't

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Speaker 2: listened to all of the episodes recently, Yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: a pattern that existed in a magazine from my use, yes,

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Speaker 2: that I wanted to make of these plush Christmas koalas

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Speaker 2: and their clothes, and I was obsessed.

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Speaker 1: And then I couldn't. I didn't ever find the patterning,

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Speaker 1: and my mom said they were a little too complex

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Speaker 1: for me, but I yearned for them. And when she died,

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Speaker 1: I went through all her stuff, like all her sewing stuff,

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Speaker 1: trying to find it, and I couldn't find it. And

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Speaker 1: I magically found it eventually thanks to an Etsy seller

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Speaker 1: who had scanned in all the pages of this magazine

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Speaker 1: and also had like tagged them all so like Christmas

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Speaker 1: Koalas popped it up anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you didn't hear that earlier episode, now

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Speaker 2: you're caught up on the koala It.

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Speaker 1: The Koalas are ongoing. I'm I have not posted an

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Speaker 1: update lately, but I'm posting them on Instagram because they're

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Speaker 1: so fun. But one of the things that really tickled

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Speaker 1: me about it was that I benefited from the years

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Speaker 1: that have gone by, that like forty years since when

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Speaker 1: that the magazine was published, because now I can just

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Speaker 1: pop those pattern scans into Photoshop or another editing thing.

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Speaker 1: Blow them up to the right size and yeah them

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Speaker 1: right out. Granted that's for like a plush thing, not

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Speaker 1: a full sized garment, but you could also do it

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Speaker 1: for a full sized garment. You would just have to

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Speaker 1: tape your print pieces together or take them to a

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Speaker 1: specially printer. But yeah, yeah, that is an avenue that

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Speaker 1: is now available for people that want to do things

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Speaker 1: that were rafted and printed long ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that was really awful back in

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Speaker 1: the old days, and I have dealt with some of these,

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Speaker 1: is that to save on paper and page name numbers.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you would get these in a book and multiple

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Speaker 1: pattern pieces would be overlaid over each other and you

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Speaker 1: would have to figure out which line went to which

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Speaker 1: one and like draft it from my head hurt thinking

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 2: That's awful. It was awful. I did a couple and

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Speaker 2: I was like, who, it's rough. This' the rough stuff.

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Speaker 1: Theirs a really funny. It tickled me, It may tickle

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Speaker 1: no one else. We talked about the Queen and Lapsie

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Speaker 1: Tailoring book and how they would, you know, go on

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Speaker 1: and on about their thoughts on various garments.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things that tickled me was that

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Speaker 2: they had this one section that was just on breeches, okay,

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Speaker 2: and it just starts with some practical observations on the

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Speaker 2: theory and practice of making breeches. This delicate and necessary

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Speaker 2: appendage to dress requires more common than the trade would

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Speaker 2: perhaps really imagine, chiefly owing to the great variety of

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Speaker 2: materials of which they are composed according to the choice

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Speaker 2: and approbation of various customers, and that they may suit

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Speaker 2: the purpose. Basically, they're like, we know you don't want

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Speaker 2: to talk about underwear, but we really have to. I

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Speaker 2: just loved that. I thought it was the funniest thing ever.

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Speaker 2: I like how this passage clearly had the long s's

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Speaker 2: that look like f's, which always makes it more funny

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Speaker 2: to me. Yes, And I also am just thinking about

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Speaker 2: how my grandma would have called that breeches. Yeah, many

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Speaker 2: people would. I still sometimes say breeches, so yeah, yeah uh.

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Speaker 1: And those get into like different right, the terminology shifts

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Speaker 1: a little bit because for a long time that would

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Speaker 1: have been underwear yep. But also they used that gets

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Speaker 1: used for pants nowadays, like I would think of bridges

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Speaker 1: as pants. The most part, you don't have any briches

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Speaker 1: on what are you doing? I can't leave the house.

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Speaker 1: You got no bridges on. I feel you, but I

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Speaker 1: just thought that was a hoot. Listen, you can still

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Speaker 1: find great underwear patterns, by the way, Love them, Love

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Speaker 1: them because that's a great way to burn through fabric

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Speaker 1: overridges in your scratch. Yes, I have a nineteen forties

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Speaker 1: Little Undies pattern that I make all the time. One

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Speaker 1: of the cool things that that has happened in terms

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Speaker 1: of preservation is that because most of these patterns that

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Speaker 1: were printed on it at full size from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: we're printed using acid free tissue paper, that they haven't

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Speaker 1: broken down.

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Speaker 2: Oh nice.

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Speaker 1: So there are quite a few that exist in like

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Speaker 1: repositories and museums and whatnot. I wouldn't unfold them and

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Speaker 1: use them, sure, but they're there and they have been

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Speaker 1: preserved in various ways, which is kind of nice because

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Speaker 1: we get a really clear view of some of it.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of or did you ever encounter

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Speaker 1: when you were sewing the Butterick walk Away dress?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. I love this dress.

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Speaker 1: Here's why. There's a cool factoid, which is that in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two this dress pattern was so popular that

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Speaker 1: Butterick shut down production of all of its other patterns

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Speaker 1: and was running only this pattern on its presses until

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Speaker 1: they could get all of the back orders fulfilled that

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Speaker 1: they had because there were so many people that wanted

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Speaker 1: to make this dress. And the reason why is that

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Speaker 1: it's the simplest dress on earth. There are only three

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Speaker 1: pattern pieces to it. The front looks kind of like

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Speaker 1: the front of like a column dress, like a slightly

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Speaker 1: tailored columnar dress, right like a straight up and down,

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Speaker 1: straight skirt, very simple, some darts to create the bust.

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Speaker 2: Seeming and whatnot. But then the back.

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Speaker 1: Has the second pattern piece, which is the top of

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Speaker 1: the back like the back bodis. And then the lower piece,

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Speaker 1: which is a very fluffy skirt and it's wide enough

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Speaker 1: that it wraps around the front and it usually buttons

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Speaker 1: right there at the front at the waist, and so

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Speaker 1: it creates with only that one closure address that's super

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Speaker 1: easy to make, super easy to put on. I've known

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that do retro stuff that still

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Speaker 1: make these, and they'll do them reversible, so you can

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Speaker 1: pack for an event and you have two dresses in

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Speaker 1: one nice This pattern has been reissued many times. You

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Speaker 1: can buy it now. It's readily available. Maybe if you're

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Speaker 1: going to order it directly from the website, do that now,

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Speaker 1: because I don't know how long that's going to be around.

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Speaker 2: I've definitely for sure seen this pattern package you have.

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Speaker 2: I guarantee. I just googled it. Yeah, definitely for sure.

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Speaker 2: But it made it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a goodie. If you're me and you're a

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Speaker 1: bit hippy and you decide to make it, you want

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Speaker 1: to extend that front piece a little bit wider because

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Speaker 1: it kind of wraps around your front hip, and usually

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Speaker 1: ties or some people do like an elastic like a

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Speaker 1: button in elastic at the back. But like for me,

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Speaker 1: if I just make it as sow and I tend

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Speaker 1: to have gaps at the side because my hips are wide.

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Speaker 1: But you can always alter it, and then once you

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Speaker 1: have your pattern down, you can just turn out like

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Speaker 1: multiples like a uniform. That was why that one quote

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Speaker 1: about why not just cut out six or twelve shirts

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Speaker 1: at a time. It's really easier. I'm like, yes, it is.

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Speaker 1: That's how I survived in like my twenties in terms

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Speaker 1: of having clothes, and even in college it would be

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Speaker 1: like I'm making a dress. Yeah, I'm gonna make three

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Speaker 1: of this dress because I don't want to mess with

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Speaker 1: pulling patterns out over and over. I would just lay

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Speaker 1: out layers and layers of fabric at a time and

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Speaker 1: cut everything at once the best. Here's another fun factoid

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Speaker 1: that I ran across. Ray Bradberry used to write for

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Speaker 1: McCall's magazine. I love that because the magazine would include

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Speaker 1: in addition to things about clothes, it would include fiction

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Speaker 1: pieces as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Eleanor Roosevelt wrote for McCalls for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Super duper interesting. There was also a mention in an

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Speaker 1: obituary for Joseph Shapiro, who founded Simplicity, that he had

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Speaker 1: a sign that he kept on his desk which tickled me,

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Speaker 1: and that sign read fools invent fashions, wise men follow them.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, I wish I could travel back in

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Speaker 1: time and ask him what he thinks that's actually saying,

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Speaker 1: because is he basically saying I did this smarter because

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Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to reinvent anything. I was trying to

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Speaker 1: make it more easily accessible for people, Like, are you

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Speaker 1: saying that wise men follow the fools or they follow

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Speaker 1: the fashions?

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Yeah, the same mental question yeah, I

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Speaker 2: have many questions. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I will say for any of our listeners that are

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Speaker 1: stitchers or soists or however they choose to identify, that

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Speaker 1: are chagrined about the possible end of or even if

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Speaker 1: they continue, I imagine there will be big changes of

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Speaker 1: the big main commercial pattern companies. There is a world

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Speaker 1: now of independent pattern companies that are many of which

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Speaker 1: are fantastic. There are ones that specialize in retro patterns.

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Speaker 1: There are ones that specialize in like really really like

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Speaker 1: simple shape, easy to make knits. There are ones that

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Speaker 1: specialize in almost anything you could want. So if you

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Speaker 1: haven't ever ventured into that world, I would, you know,

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Speaker 1: take a look around, because there's some pretty good stuff

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Speaker 1: out there. Now we have to talk about the elephant

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Speaker 1: in the room, which is what Burda Patterns. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I don't wanna Okay, there's some Nazi problems. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the founder of Burda Patterns got involved with the Nazi Party.

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Speaker 1: And when you re and I won, it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a different game than this. It was you know, going

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Speaker 1: on in Germany.

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Speaker 2: But two I didn't find a satisfactory examination of that situation. Okay,

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Speaker 2: because the few attempts at biography are all very well, like,

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Speaker 2: he didn't believe in it. It was just good for business.

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Speaker 2: It was the way to make his business continue and survive.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, keep thinking about that quote of like,

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Speaker 2: if there are ten people at a dinner table and

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Speaker 2: one of them is a Nazi, they're all essentially Nazis

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Speaker 2: because it's poison and if you're not calling it out,

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Speaker 2: you're letting it happen.

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Speaker 1: So I just was like, I'm not even gonna get

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Speaker 1: into this. It's a whole big There could be a

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Speaker 1: day in the future. I don't know how far along

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Speaker 1: that we would talk about that whole thing if I

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Speaker 1: can find more examination. Yeah, of the more interrogation of

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Speaker 1: all that. Yeah, that isn't so like he's just trying

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Speaker 1: to get by. And I'm like, you were, you were

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Speaker 1: in the Nazi military and it wasn't like he was

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Speaker 1: seventeen and was conscription. He was he was a businessman

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Speaker 1: at that point. I don't know what his lived experience was.

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Speaker 1: I haven't done enough research. But also I'm like, ooh,

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Speaker 1: they're really uncomfortable, So that's what's up with that anyway,

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Speaker 1: Sewing sewing, all the time sewing.

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Speaker 2: I love it. I love it, I like it.

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Speaker 1: It's very This is actually a funny thing because people

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Speaker 1: throughout my life because I have always sewn. I started

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Speaker 1: sewing when I was three, so I don't remember how

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Speaker 1: to not sew. But people always assume that if you sow,

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Speaker 1: you love sewing. Like we The joke among anybody, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've run into this, is that, like now,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of shirts that say, no, I

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Speaker 1: won't hem your pants. People think that if you sew,

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Speaker 1: you just love to sew, you want to put anything

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Speaker 1: under a needle and stitch it. And it's like, no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I always tell people it's not so much that

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Speaker 1: I love to sew, it's that I love having clothes

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Speaker 1: and a lot of them, yeah, and clothes that are unique.

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Speaker 1: I do often enjoy sewing and making things, but I

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Speaker 1: have also had some sewing disasters that were like so

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Speaker 1: upsetting and so frustrating that I can't put it all

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Speaker 1: into the category of.

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Speaker 2: I love this, you know. Yeah. And it's also something

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Speaker 2: that I have not done with any kind of regularity

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Speaker 2: in a long time, in part because I live in

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Speaker 2: New England and we don't have a lot of space. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've definitely had some disasters, and I love doing creative stuff,

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Speaker 2: but I definitely see sewing as a means to an end. Right,

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Speaker 2: I want a porg that is tropical colors, Well, nobody's

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Speaker 2: going to make that. How to make of myself? Sure? Sure?

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Speaker 2: I want you know, a crazy looking dress that has

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Speaker 2: yeah droid's all over it that is yeah, kind of

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Speaker 2: a ball gown. Nope, nobody's going to make that. I

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Speaker 2: have to make it myself. I also think my relationship

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Speaker 2: with this has been affected by the fact that, like

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Speaker 2: I like, I learned to sew in elementary school ages

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Speaker 2: and I was in four h and I was in Brownies,

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Speaker 2: and we did all of these things that involved sewing

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Speaker 2: in quote, handicrafts. And as I got to an age

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Speaker 2: where other kids didn't think that was cool, I cared

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Speaker 2: a lot about what other people thought of me. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: No matter how much I tried not to care about

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Speaker 2: what other people thought of me, I really did care.

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Speaker 2: And I, like, I got to an age that I

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Speaker 2: was being bullied for wearing clothes that I had made

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Speaker 2: myself to school, and that hampered my desire to continue

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Speaker 2: doing it. Yeah, I could see that for sure. This

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Speaker 2: is something that like I, the fact that you did

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Speaker 2: not care what anybody thought of you ever is something

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Speaker 2: I have always admired about you because that is a

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Speaker 2: skill that I have never developed for myself. I did

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Speaker 2: at some point, but then I think I've said on

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Speaker 2: the show, I remember the exact day that I stopped caring. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: where I just was like, I won't say the phrase

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Speaker 2: that I like to say because it has bad words

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Speaker 2: in it. But I just was like, sure, I don't

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Speaker 2: trust these people's taste.

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Speaker 1: What am I worry about? But I did kind of

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Speaker 1: a flip of what you just described where when I

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Speaker 1: was young. When I was younger and my mom made

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Speaker 1: a lot of my clothes, I hit a moment where

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Speaker 1: I was like, please stop making my clothes like other

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Speaker 1: kids comment on it, right, And then by the time

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Speaker 1: I was like thirteen fourteen, I was like, I'm making

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Speaker 1: all my clothes and I loved wearing my weird stuff.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I just hit a different moment. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: I still love making all my weird stuff. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now we're in the dangerous zone where you can, you know,

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Speaker 1: sign your own fabric and have it printed and make

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Speaker 1: your weird clothes.

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Speaker 2: Out of that and it's brilliant. I love it. I

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Speaker 2: love it to pieces. It's the best, It's the absolute best. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just love sewing.

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Speaker 1: If this is your weekend coming up, I could tell

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Speaker 1: you what I'll be doing, and it's sewing because I

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Speaker 1: got to finish this project. But whether you're sewing or not,

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Speaker 1: I hope if you have time off that you get

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Speaker 1: time to do whatever it is that you like or

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Speaker 1: that makes you feel peaceful or fulfills your creative urges.

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Speaker 1: If you don't have time off, maybe you can sneak

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Speaker 1: some of that kind of stuff in Listen. It's also

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Speaker 1: perfectly cool if you just want to sit on the

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Speaker 1: couch and watch TV all weekend.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to judge.

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Speaker 1: Those are great weekends sometimes. If you are out in

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Speaker 1: the world, I hope everyone you encounter is kind to

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Speaker 1: you and.

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Speaker 2: That everybody's cool. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode,

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Speaker 1: and then on Monday we will have something brand new.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,