WEBVTT - 8. Little Landon on the Prairie

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<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to my family room floor in the

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<v Speaker 1>suburbs of southern Ontario. It's a weekday in the mid eighties,

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<v Speaker 1>four twenty six pm. My sister and I have just

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<v Speaker 1>returned home from school. The first half hour of Oprah

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<v Speaker 1>is coming to a close. It's time to switch the channel.

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<v Speaker 1>This wasn't a choice. It just was mon Pa pulling

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<v Speaker 1>up in a wagon, Ma primly tucking a wayward strand

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<v Speaker 1>of hair and her bonnet, Pau's infectious laugh, and the

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<v Speaker 1>girls Laura, Mary and little Carrie joyfully running down a

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<v Speaker 1>grassy hill. Oops, down, goes Carrie. I believe I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>every Little House episode at least once. There are two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred and four in total. In fact, I can still

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<v Speaker 1>id any episode based on the first five seconds. And

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<v Speaker 1>if this sounds impressive or alarming, rest assured, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>the only one. I think. It's just the reality of

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<v Speaker 1>a nineteen eighty's childhood, when there were limited options and

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<v Speaker 1>you watched what you were given, and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>us were given Little House like a lot. Let me

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<v Speaker 1>put it in context for you. Remember the Game of

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<v Speaker 1>Thrones finale, the one that had more viewers than the

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<v Speaker 1>finale of the Sopranos, or Sex in the City or

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<v Speaker 1>actually anything else on HBO. Ever, thirteen million people tuned

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<v Speaker 1>in to watch that Game of Thrones finale. Well, as

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<v Speaker 1>they might say, on the Prairie, hold my tin cup

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<v Speaker 1>to Narris. On any given Monday night from nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 1>four to nineteen eighty three, Little House in the Prairie

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<v Speaker 1>averaged sixteen million viewers. Little House was a huge hit,

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<v Speaker 1>but lots of shows were in the seventies.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of things on TV actually in

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteen.

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<v Speaker 3>Seventies that were really huge.

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<v Speaker 2>Aren't you in reruns or out on DVD and people

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<v Speaker 2>are not watching it?

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<v Speaker 4>But Little House in the Prairie is what in the heck?

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<v Speaker 1>Little House went into reruns while it was still on

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<v Speaker 1>in prime time. The show ended in nineteen eighty three,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's never actually gone off the air, So you

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<v Speaker 1>can add millions and millions of viewers to those original

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<v Speaker 1>numbers we just told you about.

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<v Speaker 5>The show stayed on the air for fifty years and

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<v Speaker 5>is actually better known now than it was when it

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<v Speaker 5>was originally on NBC.

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<v Speaker 1>We're talking a half century of television. It's on Hallmark,

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<v Speaker 1>it's on VHS, it's on DVD, It's on Amazon Prime,

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<v Speaker 1>it's on Peacock, and an entire new generation of kids

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<v Speaker 1>discovered it. During COVID there was a.

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<v Speaker 6>Little House in the Prairie, the videos on the phone

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<v Speaker 6>that you watched on the way here, Yeah, a little bit.

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<v Speaker 5>In March of twenty twenty two, we saw the number

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<v Speaker 5>of Google searches for a Little House on the Prairie

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<v Speaker 5>double from the month before.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of you might have it on another screen right

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<v Speaker 1>this second.

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<v Speaker 2>I literally wake up in the middle of the bit

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<v Speaker 2>and go, somebody somewhere is watching Loves the Worry right now.

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<v Speaker 2>It's literally because it's in every country on Earth.

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<v Speaker 4>It's been dubbed into every language.

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<v Speaker 1>There's beds in every language.

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<v Speaker 4>It's bananas.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of reasons Little House never quits, but

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<v Speaker 1>without question, one of the biggest is Michael Landon, the

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<v Speaker 1>show's producer, writer, director, and most importantly, the star, better

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<v Speaker 1>known to many as Charles Ingalls Laura's paw.

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<v Speaker 7>Sorry about what I guess.

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<v Speaker 8>I just couldn't find the words to say.

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<v Speaker 1>It was in my heart, for better or worse. Michael

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<v Speaker 1>Landon made the show all his own.

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<v Speaker 9>This is a magnetic individual.

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<v Speaker 10>He glowed you know.

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<v Speaker 4>He just he had it.

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<v Speaker 1>In the books, Paw was charming and steadfast, and Laura

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<v Speaker 1>was the star. And the television show, Michael Landon had

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<v Speaker 1>lovely hair and was always crying. He had a well

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<v Speaker 1>oiled bear chest, and as I got a bit older,

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<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed how nice he looked in tight pants and suspenders.

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<v Speaker 1>He was the star. Laura is our adoring proxy. If

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<v Speaker 1>you're a person devoted to Little House book series, the

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<v Speaker 1>one's written by the real life Laura Ingleswilder. The TV

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<v Speaker 1>version might not always make sense, the stories don't always

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<v Speaker 1>match up with what's in the books, and at times

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<v Speaker 1>they're downright strange. But Michael Lannon had a vision for

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<v Speaker 1>the show, and it was a vision he believed would

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<v Speaker 1>stand the test of time.

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<v Speaker 4>He said, you know, everyone's going to be watching these

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<v Speaker 4>shows long after we're all gone, he said, long after

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<v Speaker 4>I'm dead. It was like this prophetic thing, and every

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<v Speaker 4>win he said it to it, yeah right, oh by it,

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<v Speaker 4>And Blake didn't believe him.

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<v Speaker 11>And here we all are.

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<v Speaker 1>We didn't get it. Michael got the My motivation to

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<v Speaker 1>create these two versions of Little House was essentially the same.

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<v Speaker 1>If the books were the result of Laura wanting to

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<v Speaker 1>memorialize her father's stories. The television show is in many

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<v Speaker 1>ways the result of Michael Landon using Laura's writing to

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<v Speaker 1>tap into his own traumatic childhood. Still, at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the day, Michael Lannon made Laura's prairie all his own,

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<v Speaker 1>and we all liked it there, even if it was

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<v Speaker 1>a very strange place to be. Sometimes, in some ways

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<v Speaker 1>the TV show feels like a Venn diagram. Laura Ingalls Wilder,

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<v Speaker 1>her devotion to her paw, her daughter Rose's vision, and

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<v Speaker 1>then Michael Landon's brain, and the TV series exists at

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<v Speaker 1>the center of all this, And that's where twenty million

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<v Speaker 1>people spent an hour each week and then an hour

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<v Speaker 1>after school every day for nearly five decades. Michael Landon

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<v Speaker 1>was able to tap into some essential Little House truths

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<v Speaker 1>in ways that are sometimes hard to believe. And we're

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes just as problematic as the books. This week, instead

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<v Speaker 1>of going through the pages to the prairie, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>through the screen to sunny southern California, Come home to

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<v Speaker 1>a simpler time, Come home to Hollywood in the seventies.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Glennys McNichol, and this is Wilder. It took a

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<v Speaker 1>long time for The Little House Books to reach Michael Landon.

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<v Speaker 1>More than three decades went by from the publication of

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<v Speaker 1>the last book to the premiere of the show in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy four. It's not because people didn't want it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's because Laura and her daughter Rose wouldn't let anyone

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<v Speaker 1>have the rights to the books. By the time Laura

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<v Speaker 1>died in nineteen fifty seven, the Little House Books were

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<v Speaker 1>huge success. At some point, the Canadian Broadcasting Company approached

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<v Speaker 1>Laura about adapting the books for radio, but she turned

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<v Speaker 1>the offer down. Neither she nor her daughter Rose wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to see the books quote unquote distorted by someone else's vision.

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<v Speaker 8>There were a number of radio adaptations, both small scale

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<v Speaker 8>and also hallmarked in adapting The Little House Books.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Bill Anderson again. He's been researching and writing about

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<v Speaker 1>Laura since he was a kid, and has written many

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<v Speaker 1>books on her life.

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<v Speaker 8>But Laura Ingleswilder was very, very skeptical and wanted approval

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<v Speaker 8>of the scripts, and she wasn't altogether happy with the

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<v Speaker 8>radio versions. Rose Wilder Lane felt the same way when

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<v Speaker 8>her books Let the Hurricane Law and Freeland were adapted

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<v Speaker 8>to radio. So I don't think they were fans of media.

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<v Speaker 1>After Laura's death, Rose continued to spurn offers. But when

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<v Speaker 1>Rose died in nineteen sixty eight, things changed pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>Enter Roger Lee McBride. You remember McBride. He's a complicated

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<v Speaker 1>figure who had a unique relationship with Rose. He referred

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<v Speaker 1>to himself as her adopted grandson and even called her grandma.

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<v Speaker 1>Having no children, Rose designated him or heir, and after

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<v Speaker 1>her death he acquired all the rights to Little House

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<v Speaker 1>on the Prairie. He now owned everything. Despite Rose's wishes,

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<v Speaker 1>McBride i'd entered into discussions with Disney almost immediately after

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<v Speaker 1>her death. Disney was very interested in adapting the Little

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<v Speaker 1>House books. However, on the way to a meeting at

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<v Speaker 1>their offices, fate intervened in the form of a young girl.

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<v Speaker 12>Naturally circa nineteen seventy one. My sister's at home ill

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<v Speaker 12>with a cold from school. She's a teenager, and my

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<v Speaker 12>father goes in and to say goodbye to her in

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<v Speaker 12>the morning and discovers her reading one of the Little

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<v Speaker 12>House Books. And he can't understand why his teenage daughter's

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<v Speaker 12>rereading a children's book that her mother had read to

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<v Speaker 12>her when she was a child.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Trip Friendly. His father is Ed Friendly, and Ed

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<v Speaker 1>is the first reason Little House landed on television screens.

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<v Speaker 1>At the time. Ed was a highly regarded television producer,

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<v Speaker 1>best known for creating the program Roan and Martin's Laughing.

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<v Speaker 12>He went back and talked about it with my mother,

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<v Speaker 12>and my mother said, I've been telling you for years

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<v Speaker 12>what great books they are and that you should make

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<v Speaker 12>a teeny series based on them. So he borrowed one

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<v Speaker 12>of my sister's books. He took it on a business trip.

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<v Speaker 12>A couple of days later, stopped at the magazine racket

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<v Speaker 12>at the airport and bought a Time magazine and hid

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<v Speaker 12>it inside the Time magazine. I'm the airplane so no

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<v Speaker 12>one would see who was reading a children's book.

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<v Speaker 9>And when he landed, he.

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<v Speaker 12>Immediately realized what he had in his hands, and so

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<v Speaker 12>he called his attorney and asked him to find out

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<v Speaker 12>if the rights were available. And my father invited Roger

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<v Speaker 12>to come and meet with him, and they spent a

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<v Speaker 12>weekend together in Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 1>That weekend resulted in Friendly obtaining the rights to turn

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<v Speaker 1>the books into a television show.

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<v Speaker 12>He thought the books were a national treasure. His goal

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<v Speaker 12>was to try to bring the magic of those books

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<v Speaker 12>to the screen.

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<v Speaker 1>At least that was the plan. This was the mid seventies,

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<v Speaker 1>and the concept of setting a wholesome family show on

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<v Speaker 1>the American frontier did not exactly speak to the times

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<v Speaker 1>Father who.

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<v Speaker 12>Was turned down by virtually every studio and network because

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<v Speaker 12>at the time they all told him Westerns are dead,

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<v Speaker 12>this material is too soft. It's nice, they're great books.

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<v Speaker 10>But but but.

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<v Speaker 1>In March nineteen seventy four, America was at the height

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<v Speaker 1>of Watergate, Vietnam was still raging, the country was experiencing

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<v Speaker 1>extreme inflation. There was a lot of sharp, timely social

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<v Speaker 1>commentary on primetime TV, and a lot of people watching.

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<v Speaker 1>The most popular show was All in the Family, average

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<v Speaker 1>viewership twenty million. In fact, the average weekly viewership of

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<v Speaker 1>the top ten shows in nineteen seventy four was around

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<v Speaker 1>sixteen million. I'm telling you all these numbers just to

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<v Speaker 1>remind you that even basic television was a common cultural language.

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<v Speaker 1>When you showed up at work, or at school or

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<v Speaker 1>at the grocery store the next day, everyone knew what

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<v Speaker 1>you were talking about. You'd all been watching it together,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. And I often talk about what it was

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<v Speaker 1>like to grow up with this sort of shared culture.

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<v Speaker 6>I mean, I try to explain this to Charlie all

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<v Speaker 6>the time, that he lives in a content utopia where

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<v Speaker 6>he can just dial up magically any episode of any

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<v Speaker 6>show ever created and watch it as many times as

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<v Speaker 6>he wanted, Whereas if we saw a show, especially when

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<v Speaker 6>we were much younger, we may never see it again.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember one of my favorite Little House episodes came

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<v Speaker 1>on and I skipped swim practice because I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I've been waiting for this episode for years to see.

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<v Speaker 1>And the thing too, is like when we talk about

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<v Speaker 1>how wholesome Little House was, The Waltons was also on

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<v Speaker 1>TV in the seventies at the same time.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, in my head, they're the same thing. Even though

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<v Speaker 6>I grew up in the eighties and I know that

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<v Speaker 6>my mom watched both Little House and The Waltons, and

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<v Speaker 6>to me it just seemed really cheesy. I wasn't paying

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<v Speaker 6>enough attention to either of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if I was to differentiate them for listeners and

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<v Speaker 1>for you, I would say the Waltons was sort of

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<v Speaker 1>like the Depression, and Little House in the Prairie was

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<v Speaker 1>like sex appeal. Hollywood Michael Landon with you know, his

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<v Speaker 1>muscles and his hair and a smile, and clearly had

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<v Speaker 1>shaved his chest, although I didn't understand that as a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>Like there was so much sex appealed a little house

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<v Speaker 1>in the prairie. It was like a Western. It was

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<v Speaker 1>like Hollywood.

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<v Speaker 6>Hold on, I'm googling pictures of Michael Landon and his hair.

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<v Speaker 6>Is that's some nice hair. That's some real nice hair.

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<v Speaker 6>Oh my gosh, look at his chest.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he was always finding reasons to take his shirt off.

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<v Speaker 1>He was always breaking his ribs somehow so that they

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<v Speaker 1>had to take a shirt off and wrap them up

0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.880
<v Speaker 1>in like some sort of like prairie tensor bandage. He glistens,

0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.600
<v Speaker 1>He really listens. Nobody looked like that on the Waltons.

0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.400
<v Speaker 6>Let me tell you, all right, just make me a

0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.880
<v Speaker 6>list of your top ten episodes. I'll dive into some

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:00.800
<v Speaker 6>Michael Landon when I'm alone later this evening.

0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Being a sex symbol was not a new experience for

0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Michael Landon. In the early seventies, Landon was known to

0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.600
<v Speaker 1>the world as Little Joe, the youngest son of the

0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 1>wealthy ranch owning Cartwright family on the television western Bonanza

0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:18.840
<v Speaker 1>At the height of its run, it was the number

0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 1>one rated show in the country, clocking nineteen million viewers weekly. Landon,

0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.720
<v Speaker 1>who was in his mid twenties, was a teen idol

0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:32.400
<v Speaker 1>think Elvis Goes West. When Bonanza ended in nineteen seventy three,

0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Michael Landon was primed for his next project.

0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 12>My father knew Michael because he was very close friends

0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.760
<v Speaker 12>with Lauren Green, who was the patriarch on Bonanza.

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Here's Trip Friendly again.

0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.360
<v Speaker 12>And so he called Michael and he said, I have

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 12>a project that I'm very interested in having you direct.

0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 12>So he sent my sister with a script up to

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.800
<v Speaker 12>Michael's house and a few hours later he got a

0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.360
<v Speaker 12>call from Michael saying, I not only want to direct,

0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:03.600
<v Speaker 12>but I want a stars paw. And so with Michael attached,

0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 12>he went back to NBC, with whom he had a

0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.600
<v Speaker 12>very strong relationship, and he presented him with the package

0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:14.120
<v Speaker 12>with Michael a directing and Michael starring, and they agreed,

0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:19.720
<v Speaker 12>if I had.

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 4>Her alevelance book, I would mark down how it was

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.360
<v Speaker 4>when we left our little house in the Big Woods

0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 4>to go west to Remian Territory.

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.400
<v Speaker 1>The two hour Little House Pilot aired on March thirtieth,

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy four. Ed Friendley spent his own money to

0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.960
<v Speaker 1>hire Blanche Handalists to adapt it, and she stuck faithfully

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:41.680
<v Speaker 1>to the book Little House on the Prairie.

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:43.720
<v Speaker 13>All right, here, ess here we Come.

0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 1>The pilot was a huge hit. It was the highest

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.200
<v Speaker 1>rated television movie of the year. NBC immediately ordered the series,

0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 1>and Little House on the Prairie premiered on September eleventh,

0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.880
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy four, seven weeks after Nixon's resignation and one

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.080
<v Speaker 1>week after I was born. The series starts with an

0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.480
<v Speaker 1>episode called a Harvest of Friends, and it introduced a

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.400
<v Speaker 1>very different Ingalls family from the one readers knew from

0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the books. The episode is about how Walnut Grove comes

0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.920
<v Speaker 1>together to help Charles when an injury keeps him from

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.320
<v Speaker 1>fulfilling a contract that will allow him to save his

0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:23.440
<v Speaker 1>brand new farm. It's a tear jerker, and it has

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 1>no correlation whatsoever to any storyline in any of the books.

0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:29.960
<v Speaker 1>This set the template for what was to come on

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Little House Family.

0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:33.360
<v Speaker 4>First home is the nicest word.

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 1>There is strength and community.

0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 4>I think you're a welcome edition, dark community.

0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 7>I thank you hard work work for you in the

0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.440
<v Speaker 7>morning work for Hanson. In the afternoon, you're biting off

0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.000
<v Speaker 7>a big piece God.

0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Charles Lord's day is set aside for worship and for

0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:52.520
<v Speaker 1>wrist Michael Landon's thick, flowing curls, Michael Landon's smile, Michael

0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 1>Landon's shirtless and glistening. Michael Landon crying or for't exactly

0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:02.320
<v Speaker 1>crying in this episode, frequently hobbling his lip. Laura was

0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.000
<v Speaker 1>still there, and Melissa Gilbert was charming and could hold

0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.160
<v Speaker 1>her own in a scene. But there was no doubt

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.879
<v Speaker 1>who the star of this prairie was. The spotlight had

0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.560
<v Speaker 1>clearly been shifted to Paw and his perfectly lit pecks.

0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.199
<v Speaker 1>This was not the Charles Ingles of the books.

0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 9>Michael showed himself to be anything but Charles Ingalls.

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.320
<v Speaker 1>That's actor Dean Butler. He played heart throb while Mon's

0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:24.320
<v Speaker 1>a wilder on the show.

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:26.960
<v Speaker 9>Hey, this is a guy who's sitting there with a

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.200
<v Speaker 9>cigarette and his teeth. He's got his Carrera sunglasses on,

0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.080
<v Speaker 9>his demim shirt opened down halfway down. His chest is

0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.560
<v Speaker 9>sprayed on with the gun jeans, the snakeskin boots, the

0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 9>hair obviously with the ash brown dyed number two in.

0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:47.120
<v Speaker 1>It unlike Paw, Michael landed On the Prairie didn't have

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.479
<v Speaker 1>the iconic beard Laura write so lovingly about in the books.

0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.760
<v Speaker 1>NBC was so concerned Little House book fans would be

0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.520
<v Speaker 1>alarmed by the lack of a beard, they felt it

0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.600
<v Speaker 1>necessary to put out a press release explaining its absence.

0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.320
<v Speaker 14>Great pains were put into fitting Michael Landon with a beard,

0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:07.399
<v Speaker 14>both of natural growth and by makeup artis, but it

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:09.639
<v Speaker 14>was decided that he just did not look good with

0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:10.840
<v Speaker 14>any kind of facial hair.

0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.400
<v Speaker 1>And if Michael Landon did not look good with facial hair,

0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.720
<v Speaker 1>and gosh darn it, he would not have facial hair.

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:22.240
<v Speaker 1>He was the star, and the producer and the writer.

0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:28.160
<v Speaker 1>It was, in short, Michael Landon's Prairie. Millions of people

0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.120
<v Speaker 1>wanted to live there with the ingles for at least

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:40.280
<v Speaker 1>one hour a week. Everyone loved Paul, well, almost everyone.

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.400
<v Speaker 1>His Little House was hitting the airwaves in the fall

0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.199
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen seventy four. A Friendly, the person who initially

0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.359
<v Speaker 1>had brought the books to the screen, was increasingly unhappy.

0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.320
<v Speaker 1>Michael Landon was wreaking havoc on Friendly's plan to faithfully

0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 1>adapt the books. Friendly flat out told people magazine. He

0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.040
<v Speaker 1>thought this prairie was too flashy.

0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.280
<v Speaker 9>I've renamed the series, how affluent is my Prairie?

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:09.920
<v Speaker 7>They have everything but a Cadillac.

0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:15.400
<v Speaker 12>My father decided he and Michael had creative differences, and

0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.119
<v Speaker 12>I think he recognized that Michael, as the star of

0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.560
<v Speaker 12>the show, woulout work if Michael left the show, and

0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.880
<v Speaker 12>I think eventually he decided that he did not want

0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.280
<v Speaker 12>to continue with Michael's vision. He had his own vision,

0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.280
<v Speaker 12>so he left the show. But still, you'll see in

0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.160
<v Speaker 12>the credits it's still in an NDC production association within

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:39.520
<v Speaker 12>Friendly Production, so he was still very involved without being

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.600
<v Speaker 12>the producer on the show.

0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 1>So very quickly into season one, Michael Landon was fully

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:54.240
<v Speaker 1>completely in charge well at Friendly's departure from the day

0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.399
<v Speaker 1>to day signaled a major shift behind the scenes. Viewers

0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:59.359
<v Speaker 1>did not seem to deterred by the fact the show

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.520
<v Speaker 1>deviated from the books, or by Landon's central role, or

0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.879
<v Speaker 1>by criticism that it was too sacharin a sweet and

0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:12.639
<v Speaker 1>low Walton said People Magazine the show was sacrin but

0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:16.399
<v Speaker 1>Landon certainly didn't care. He embraced the simplicity of a

0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.840
<v Speaker 1>family show, as he told Bobby Wygant in an interview

0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:21.320
<v Speaker 1>right before the first season aired.

0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 7>But anyway, when this came along, it was fresh for

0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.880
<v Speaker 7>me because it was honest, and it was simple and

0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.600
<v Speaker 7>very basic, and I liked the people. I thought the

0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.879
<v Speaker 7>people were nice, and I kind of thought my family

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:37.560
<v Speaker 7>would like to watch that. I got a lot of kids,

0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:39.359
<v Speaker 7>and it's kind of fun to think you're going to

0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.120
<v Speaker 7>do a show that you would be happy to sit

0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:43.879
<v Speaker 7>in the living room with the whole family and watch.

0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:49.399
<v Speaker 1>Landon's idea a family friendly fair was a combination of adventure,

0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:54.840
<v Speaker 1>wholesomeness and hard times, and while the books provided some

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.919
<v Speaker 1>of this, Landon often went with what he knew, and

0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 1>he had definitely known his own hard times as a child.

0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:07.359
<v Speaker 1>Or Eugene Horowitz in nineteen thirty six, Landon claimed to

0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 1>have been ostracized as a child because he was Jewish.

0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.959
<v Speaker 1>He'd also had a painful relationship with his mother. This

0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 1>is what he told People magazine in nineteen eighty five

0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:18.960
<v Speaker 1>about her. An actor is reading his statement.

0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:22.680
<v Speaker 15>I always wanted to get away from my family. Mother

0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.119
<v Speaker 15>was a childish person who was always attempting suicide. She

0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.080
<v Speaker 15>would stick her head in the oven, but she always

0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:30.760
<v Speaker 15>had knee pads on the floor, or one window open.

0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.640
<v Speaker 15>In a family like that, you get to thinking, Gee,

0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:35.440
<v Speaker 15>if it's Tuesday, it must be suicide.

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Landon was famously a bedwetter as a child. I say

0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.240
<v Speaker 1>famously because he talks about it freely. He even made

0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:45.760
<v Speaker 1>a TV movie about this in nineteen seventy six called

0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.840
<v Speaker 1>The Loneliest Runner. Well, I don't recall any bed wedding

0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.240
<v Speaker 1>episodes in Little House, though presumably there was bed wedding

0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.399
<v Speaker 1>in the eighteen seventies. It was these traumas from his

0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.679
<v Speaker 1>own childhood land And was drawing on when he stepped

0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.640
<v Speaker 1>into the Little House Writer's room, and.

0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:03.200
<v Speaker 9>He could do in a really an intensely real way.

0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:06.320
<v Speaker 1>This is Rick Okie. In the nineteen seventies, he was

0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.399
<v Speaker 1>an NBC exec in charge of a host of iconic programs,

0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:14.119
<v Speaker 1>The Wonderful World of Disney, Chips, Night Rider, and of

0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.680
<v Speaker 1>course Little House on the Prairie, where he witnessed Michael

0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Landon's creative process firsthand. In the writer's room.

0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:21.080
<v Speaker 9>I would watch him.

0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:25.600
<v Speaker 16>Sometimes we'd be sitting talking about a plotter, about an episode,

0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:30.480
<v Speaker 16>and he would lean back and he would close his eyes,

0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:32.800
<v Speaker 16>and you know, it's hard to sit in a room

0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:35.919
<v Speaker 16>that's silent when you're supposed to be making a contribution.

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:38.359
<v Speaker 16>I would open my mouth to say something and the

0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 16>other one of the writers in the room would sort

0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:43.000
<v Speaker 16>of put his hand on my chest and say wait.

0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Much like real life Laura, who reworked the hard times

0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:50.240
<v Speaker 1>of her childhood into magical stories, Landon in many ways

0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:50.919
<v Speaker 1>did the same.

0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.800
<v Speaker 16>And it could go on for minutes where he would

0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:56.719
<v Speaker 16>just sit there, and when he would sit back up

0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.480
<v Speaker 16>and open his eyes, he'd say, when I was a kid,

0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:01.880
<v Speaker 16>And he would tell a story out of his own life,

0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:03.840
<v Speaker 16>and you just have you glued because he was a

0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 16>great yarn spinner, and you're asking yourself, how does this

0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:09.679
<v Speaker 16>relate to what we're working on right now. By the

0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:12.120
<v Speaker 16>end of his story, he would have tied it back

0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.960
<v Speaker 16>into where the conversation started and use it as a

0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:20.640
<v Speaker 16>way to bring an authenticity to the stories that made

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:22.480
<v Speaker 16>them superhuman.

0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.119
<v Speaker 1>Some of those storylines were loosely connected to actual events

0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:31.320
<v Speaker 1>in the book, some less so, and some were Landon's

0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:32.359
<v Speaker 1>attempt to stay current.

0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:37.959
<v Speaker 16>You know, Mike was always interested in taking issues that

0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:41.080
<v Speaker 16>were current and putting them in that frame of a

0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:44.280
<v Speaker 16>period piece that allowed you to explore them without being offensive,

0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 16>kind of the way that Mash was able to explore

0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:49.719
<v Speaker 16>the Vietnam War because it wasn't Vietnam, it was the Korea,

0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:51.960
<v Speaker 16>but it was Vietnam when we all knew it. That's

0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:53.119
<v Speaker 16>what they were talking about it.

0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:55.639
<v Speaker 1>He proved to audiences that even if the show was

0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:59.439
<v Speaker 1>sentimental and melodramatic, it could speak to what was happening

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:02.240
<v Speaker 1>in their world. A Little House did speak to Vietnam

0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:04.520
<v Speaker 1>and a host of other contemporary issues.

0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:08.640
<v Speaker 4>The Civil War soldier who comes back and he has

0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:10.720
<v Speaker 4>PTSD or shell shocks.

0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:13.439
<v Speaker 2>To be there and he's addicted to morphy. This is

0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:16.640
<v Speaker 2>the same year when Vietnam veterans were coming.

0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Home addicted to heroin.

0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 4>Hello, how many people were living that episode.

0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:24.320
<v Speaker 1>That's Alison Arngrahm, who played Nellie Olsen on the show.

0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 2>So we were doing these episodes where the women are

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:29.840
<v Speaker 2>want the right to own property.

0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 4>We had episodes about alcoholism, about drugs, We had child abuse,

0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 4>we had spousal abuse.

0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:37.000
<v Speaker 2>We did work all those things out, and a lot

0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:39.360
<v Speaker 2>of things were covered on nineteen seventy shows like All

0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:42.440
<v Speaker 2>in the Family or Maude. We were sneaking them into

0:24:43.200 --> 0:24:46.719
<v Speaker 2>but everybody was in bonnets, so it was somehow safe

0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and okay, and of course Paul and Mau were there

0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:50.720
<v Speaker 2>to help you deal with it.

0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.520
<v Speaker 1>So Little House could be current and comforting. But this

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:57.560
<v Speaker 1>was primetime TV after all, and just like today, the

0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:01.640
<v Speaker 1>networks needed to draw eyeballs, and just like today, viewers

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.560
<v Speaker 1>love drama. Rick Oakie's job was to deliver the studio

0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:07.840
<v Speaker 1>execs dramatic demands to Michael Landon.

0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:12.000
<v Speaker 16>It was always Who's going to have a baby? Is

0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:13.600
<v Speaker 16>there going to be a wedding? Is there going to

0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.760
<v Speaker 16>be a funeral? Is somebody going to die? What event

0:25:16.880 --> 0:25:19.280
<v Speaker 16>can you create for us? And I was the unfortunate

0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:21.439
<v Speaker 16>messenger who had to go over to Michael Landon and

0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:25.360
<v Speaker 16>go hate to say this, but what have you got

0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:29.560
<v Speaker 16>planned for November? Because that's when the ratings sweeps happened,

0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:31.880
<v Speaker 16>and that's when advertisers make their buys.

0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:34.320
<v Speaker 1>If you grew up in the heyday of primetime television,

0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:37.439
<v Speaker 1>you knew the sweeps shows. Even if you didn't know

0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.840
<v Speaker 1>what sweeps was. They were often the two parters. They

0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:44.040
<v Speaker 1>were unmissible. Think of the time they had to remove

0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:47.040
<v Speaker 1>the bomb on Grey's Anatomy. That was a sweeps show

0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:50.119
<v Speaker 1>once again, it was Rick Oki who had to deliver

0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:51.480
<v Speaker 1>this task to Michael.

0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:53.960
<v Speaker 16>And he would say, let me think about it. And

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:56.119
<v Speaker 16>then by the time I drove back to my office

0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:58.359
<v Speaker 16>in Burbank, my boss would come in and go, what

0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:01.040
<v Speaker 16>did you say to Michael. He's like, he's you know,

0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:03.639
<v Speaker 16>we're going to do the show where Merlin Olsen's wife

0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:07.040
<v Speaker 16>dies in a fire. And you know, he would always

0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:09.639
<v Speaker 16>come through with, you know, without being untrue to the

0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:12.840
<v Speaker 16>spirit of the books. He was wise enough and smart

0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:15.119
<v Speaker 16>enough in the ways of broadcasting that he got it

0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:17.520
<v Speaker 16>and he knew what they needed, and he would always

0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 16>deliver it.

0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:22.440
<v Speaker 1>What Landon delivered was a mix of sentimentality, Western romance,

0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:27.600
<v Speaker 1>and cultural relevance, which was rating's gold but could also

0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:31.439
<v Speaker 1>result in some serious weirdness. Even now, when you're out

0:26:31.480 --> 0:26:34.320
<v Speaker 1>in the world having conversations with people about Little House,

0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 1>the episodes they remember best always seemed to be the

0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:42.800
<v Speaker 1>strangest I watched the TV show.

0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:45.560
<v Speaker 5>I've tried to explain some of the episodes to other

0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:49.679
<v Speaker 5>tour guides now and they're like, they did what the

0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:50.280
<v Speaker 5>TV show?

0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 12>Really?

0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:51.800
<v Speaker 1>There's some they.

0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:54.920
<v Speaker 4>Locked she locks someone in the ice house.

0:26:56.359 --> 0:27:00.880
<v Speaker 1>That's that's me and Emily at lunch and just met

0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:04.159
<v Speaker 1>South Dakota with Diane, Cheryl, and Marie, the women who

0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:07.760
<v Speaker 1>run the Laura Ingles Wilder Memorial Society. I didn't think

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:11.160
<v Speaker 1>they'd be into Michael Landon's antics, but when I brought

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:14.320
<v Speaker 1>up the TV show, we immediately launched right into our

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:18.320
<v Speaker 1>favorite episodes, which also happened to be the strangest ones.

0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:21.680
<v Speaker 1>She pushes Nellie down the hill in the wheelchair, even

0:27:21.720 --> 0:27:23.760
<v Speaker 1>the wind that I just watched where Laura the baby

0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:26.080
<v Speaker 1>brother dies and Laura runs away thinking it's her fault.

0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:27.840
<v Speaker 1>And then Laura climbs up a mountain to be closer

0:27:27.880 --> 0:27:31.920
<v Speaker 1>to God, and she meets an angel. Name is John

0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:35.560
<v Speaker 1>Jonathan the Angel And I just when you start saying

0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:38.879
<v Speaker 1>it out loud. But it worked, not just worked, but

0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:41.399
<v Speaker 1>made for some classic TV moments that live permanently in

0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:45.080
<v Speaker 1>the brains of an entire generation of children, So classic

0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:47.760
<v Speaker 1>that Colin Farrell name checked Little House that the writers

0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:50.520
<v Speaker 1>strike picket line, and I even more was.

0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:52.520
<v Speaker 12>An actor, right, we convince lots to me, I'm going

0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:54.240
<v Speaker 12>back to TJ. Look her in the middle House on

0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:54.800
<v Speaker 12>the prairie.

0:27:55.320 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 2>We can go there.

0:27:57.280 --> 0:27:59.679
<v Speaker 1>When the Little House actors get approached by fans, The

0:27:59.720 --> 0:28:02.160
<v Speaker 1>fans immediately tell them about their favorite episodes.

0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:08.679
<v Speaker 17>People always want to talk about a matter and me

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:10.320
<v Speaker 17>cutting off my leg.

0:28:11.240 --> 0:28:13.560
<v Speaker 9>The Back to School one with the Cinnamon Chicken.

0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:15.359
<v Speaker 2>And the mud Fight Bunny where I go down the

0:28:15.440 --> 0:28:17.520
<v Speaker 2>hill in the wheelchair. But I did pretend to be

0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:19.640
<v Speaker 2>paralyzed to ruin everyone's life.

0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:22.439
<v Speaker 11>I send the children home early because there was going

0:28:22.480 --> 0:28:24.879
<v Speaker 11>to be a blizzard. Michael called it. Miss Beetle kills

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:25.679
<v Speaker 11>the kids again.

0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:26.920
<v Speaker 1>I hear a bet.

0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:30.480
<v Speaker 4>The Lord is My Shepherd a lot. It's my favorite too.

0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:34.439
<v Speaker 1>That, of course is Melissa Gilbert. She played Laura on

0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:36.600
<v Speaker 1>the show, and The Lord Is My Shepherd is my

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:40.440
<v Speaker 1>favorite episode two. It's also the perfect example of how

0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Michael Landon spun the real stories of the Ingles family

0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:47.040
<v Speaker 1>into something utterly wild and memorable and perfectly crafted for

0:28:47.080 --> 0:28:50.360
<v Speaker 1>primetime TV. The episode The Lord Is My Shepherd is

0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:52.840
<v Speaker 1>based on something that actually happened to the Ingles, which

0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:56.040
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about in an earlier episode. When Laura was eight,

0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:59.800
<v Speaker 1>Ma gave birth to a baby boy, Charles Frederick Ingles Junior,

0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:03.320
<v Speaker 1>known to the family as Freddy. Baby Freddie died at

0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:06.920
<v Speaker 1>nine months Laura never mentioned him in the books. It

0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 1>was too painful.

0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:12.040
<v Speaker 2>In the books, the English don't have a son, and

0:29:12.120 --> 0:29:14.640
<v Speaker 2>there's no baby who dies, never spoke of it. And

0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:17.280
<v Speaker 2>then in the TV show, of course, Michael said, what

0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:20.920
<v Speaker 2>that's like the greatest episode ever. Of course we're going

0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:21.400
<v Speaker 2>to do that.

0:29:22.320 --> 0:29:27.400
<v Speaker 1>The TV episode adheres to these basic facts and then embellishes.

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Here's what happens in the episode, Ma has a new

0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 1>baby boy. Laura gets jealous of all the attention the

0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:37.080
<v Speaker 1>new baby boy is getting, and when he gets sick,

0:29:37.680 --> 0:29:40.719
<v Speaker 1>she refuses to pray for him. When the baby dies,

0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:44.320
<v Speaker 1>she concludes it's her fault and she decides to get

0:29:44.320 --> 0:29:47.360
<v Speaker 1>as close to God as possible literally.

0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:51.280
<v Speaker 4>And then, of course Laura runs away to a mountain.

0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:54.000
<v Speaker 4>How she found a mountain in Minnesota?

0:29:55.000 --> 0:29:57.760
<v Speaker 2>I always say she ran across four states to like

0:29:57.840 --> 0:29:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Colorado or something.

0:29:59.160 --> 0:29:59.560
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.040
<v Speaker 4>It finds a big mountain at that and then at

0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 4>the top of.

0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:07.640
<v Speaker 2>The mountain, Easier in his bourg dying, who is apparently galled,

0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and yet it is genius and it totally works. It

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:15.640
<v Speaker 2>is one of the best episodes ever of like anything.

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:23.080
<v Speaker 1>It did work. Everyone we spoke to remembered this episode,

0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:27.360
<v Speaker 1>and they also remembered another one. You know it, even

0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 1>if you don't think you know it. Perhaps no episode

0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:36.040
<v Speaker 1>has given so many children nightmares than the episode called Sylvia.

0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:41.560
<v Speaker 4>And of course the Sylvia episode, or as people do

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:43.680
<v Speaker 4>refer to it, clown rape.

0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:46.280
<v Speaker 1>But I'm not laughing because it's funny, but that is

0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 1>the way people refer to it.

0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:51.640
<v Speaker 4>It's a very very disturbing episode. And they had that

0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:55.320
<v Speaker 4>clown who was molesting everybody and raping everybody. There was

0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:57.040
<v Speaker 4>a period in my childhood where every time I saw

0:30:57.080 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 4>it was the same episode, which is the one that

0:30:59.360 --> 0:31:02.760
<v Speaker 4>featured us sexual assault. Oh my god, it was a lot.

0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Here's what happens. Sylvia is about a young girl in

0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Walnut Grove named Sylvia who is sexually assaulted one day

0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:14.680
<v Speaker 1>on the way home from school in the woods by

0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:18.120
<v Speaker 1>a man who is wearing a creepy clownish mask. She

0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 1>gets pregnant, and her angry father threatens to throw her out.

0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:24.880
<v Speaker 1>The angles adopted son, Albert, offers to marry Sylvia so

0:31:24.920 --> 0:31:27.400
<v Speaker 1>they can run away together. On their way out of town,

0:31:27.480 --> 0:31:30.920
<v Speaker 1>the clown reappears, but before he can assault Sylvia again,

0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:35.560
<v Speaker 1>he's shot by Sylvia's dad, but Sylvia, who's climbed up

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:39.360
<v Speaker 1>a ladder to get away from him, falls and dies too.

0:31:42.960 --> 0:31:46.080
<v Speaker 1>Watching Sylvia today is nothing short of bizarre, and, like

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:50.480
<v Speaker 1>most shows fifty years old, deeply problematic, but also maybe

0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:53.640
<v Speaker 1>weirdly a bit ahead of its time. Little House producer

0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:56.520
<v Speaker 1>Rick Okie told me Michael Landon, who wrote and directed

0:31:56.560 --> 0:31:59.240
<v Speaker 1>the episode, was simply trying to speak to the issues

0:31:59.240 --> 0:31:59.680
<v Speaker 1>of the day.

0:32:00.440 --> 0:32:02.440
<v Speaker 16>And I remember when he called me aside and he said,

0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:03.720
<v Speaker 16>I want to do a show or one of the

0:32:03.720 --> 0:32:07.920
<v Speaker 16>girls in town gets raped, and it was really controversial

0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:09.920
<v Speaker 16>and the network you had a hard time, but he

0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:12.320
<v Speaker 16>dug his heels in and said, nope, We're doing this show.

0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:14.479
<v Speaker 16>I'm going to write it myself, I'll direct it myself.

0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:16.040
<v Speaker 16>It'll be well done, don't worry.

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:16.920
<v Speaker 10>And it was.

0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:21.560
<v Speaker 1>What was the response to that show mixed? Mixed reviews

0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:24.720
<v Speaker 1>are still mixed. On the one hand, Sylvia provided a

0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 1>narrative for an issue not often talked about on mainstream television.

0:32:29.880 --> 0:32:33.520
<v Speaker 1>On the other hand, the ridiculous framing around it makes

0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:37.880
<v Speaker 1>it a joke among fans to understand how this lands now.

0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:39.280
<v Speaker 1>I told Joe to watch Sylvia.

0:32:39.760 --> 0:32:43.480
<v Speaker 6>Oh, I watched Sylvia that is some messed up shit

0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:48.560
<v Speaker 6>that happens in Sylvia, and you and Emily both prepared

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:53.200
<v Speaker 6>me that this was the quote unquote clown rape episode,

0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:55.400
<v Speaker 6>but I still think that there was a part of

0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:59.200
<v Speaker 6>me that didn't believe you, that didn't really think that

0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:02.000
<v Speaker 6>that was a thing that was going to exist in

0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:04.800
<v Speaker 6>the Little House on the Prairie TV show. And I

0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:10.320
<v Speaker 6>have to say I found the episode problematic in so

0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:15.720
<v Speaker 6>many different ways, starting with the boys from the town,

0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 6>the like teenage boys who go and spy on Sylvia

0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:22.840
<v Speaker 6>while she's getting dressed and hoping to see her in

0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:26.160
<v Speaker 6>her bra and underwear. And in the background, the music

0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:30.200
<v Speaker 6>that's playing it was like this happy circusy kind of

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:33.760
<v Speaker 6>music that makes it all seem like a farce when

0:33:33.840 --> 0:33:38.240
<v Speaker 6>these boys are invading Sylvia's privacy and then this terrible

0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:42.240
<v Speaker 6>sexual assault happens to her later, and then from there

0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:48.800
<v Speaker 6>it just got more bizarre and more problematic and completely

0:33:48.840 --> 0:33:50.360
<v Speaker 6>went off the rails.

0:33:50.880 --> 0:33:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, so much of it is so dated. Inevitably,

0:33:57.520 --> 0:34:00.479
<v Speaker 1>it's like a fifty year old episode, and it's so weird,

0:34:00.560 --> 0:34:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Like the clown aspect of it is so weird to

0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:03.720
<v Speaker 1>the mime.

0:34:03.800 --> 0:34:06.520
<v Speaker 6>A clown mime I mean, I think mime is worse

0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:08.760
<v Speaker 6>than clown, to be honest.

0:34:08.880 --> 0:34:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I think to be clear, this is not

0:34:12.680 --> 0:34:15.080
<v Speaker 1>a defense of Sylvia, but I think sometimes if you

0:34:15.120 --> 0:34:18.960
<v Speaker 1>think of Sylvia like that episode aired in like nineteen eighty,

0:34:19.120 --> 0:34:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I think, and I feel like can be viewed from

0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:26.120
<v Speaker 1>our vantage point as a sort of early version of

0:34:26.120 --> 0:34:28.839
<v Speaker 1>an ABC after school special if you remember the ones

0:34:28.880 --> 0:34:33.440
<v Speaker 1>we grow up on. And I think it had the

0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:39.800
<v Speaker 1>ability to give children experiencing, you know, sexual trauma or abuse,

0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:45.360
<v Speaker 1>some sort of language or something to point to and say,

0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:48.160
<v Speaker 1>this is what's happening to me, you know. And I

0:34:48.200 --> 0:34:51.239
<v Speaker 1>think if we think about it in that context, it

0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 1>becomes slightly less weird. Although again the mime slash clown

0:34:57.080 --> 0:35:00.000
<v Speaker 1>in the woods is just it's it's like the stuff

0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:03.760
<v Speaker 1>of horror movies before they turned into the scream horror movie.

0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:08.480
<v Speaker 6>I hear you that in this episode. In the Sylvia episode,

0:35:08.640 --> 0:35:14.160
<v Speaker 6>it tackled sexual assault and rape, and Sylvia gets pregnant

0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:20.520
<v Speaker 6>in the episode in a place where families could talk

0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:23.319
<v Speaker 6>about it afterwards, right, Families could watch together and then

0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:27.520
<v Speaker 6>maybe give language to something that they didn't know how

0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:32.120
<v Speaker 6>to talk about before, much like the Very Special episodes

0:35:32.440 --> 0:35:35.040
<v Speaker 6>of the sitcoms that came a few years later in

0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:38.239
<v Speaker 6>the eighties, And there was the Mister Belvedere episode where

0:35:38.239 --> 0:35:41.759
<v Speaker 6>Wesley's classmate had aides. There was the Different Shokes where

0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:44.920
<v Speaker 6>the bicycle shop owner tries to molest Arnold and his

0:35:45.000 --> 0:35:45.640
<v Speaker 6>friend Dudley.

0:35:45.760 --> 0:35:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember that one?

0:35:47.960 --> 0:35:48.160
<v Speaker 17>Yeah?

0:35:48.200 --> 0:35:51.759
<v Speaker 1>There is also that Punky Brewster episode. There was a

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:54.399
<v Speaker 1>bunch of weird Punky Brewster episodes like that really stick

0:35:54.440 --> 0:35:56.600
<v Speaker 1>out in your head. The Challenger episode, I think she

0:35:56.680 --> 0:35:57.280
<v Speaker 1>was also.

0:35:57.200 --> 0:36:00.480
<v Speaker 6>Where the space Shuttle explodes. The Space Shuttle actually actually

0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:01.800
<v Speaker 6>explodes on Punky Brister.

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:05.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I think like Sylvia is before all of this.

0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:07.320
<v Speaker 1>So in the eighties, by the time we were watching

0:36:07.360 --> 0:36:11.200
<v Speaker 1>all these shows in primetime, this felt much less strange.

0:36:11.480 --> 0:36:15.520
<v Speaker 1>But when Sylvia aired on a family show in primetime

0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:20.080
<v Speaker 1>and this was the storyline, I just feel like probably

0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:25.359
<v Speaker 1>some of the weirdness of the plotting fell away and

0:36:26.760 --> 0:36:30.560
<v Speaker 1>it was maybe helpful and also probably like a lot

0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:33.120
<v Speaker 1>of people were, you know, couldn't take their eyes off

0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:35.760
<v Speaker 1>of it. And then when we encountered it after school,

0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:38.120
<v Speaker 1>like what a strange episode to come home to you

0:36:38.160 --> 0:36:41.680
<v Speaker 1>after school with your cookies and milk and you're like, oh, well,

0:36:41.719 --> 0:36:45.000
<v Speaker 1>there's a clown in the woods attacking this girl. So bizarre.

0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:51.560
<v Speaker 6>It's a disturbing, bizarro strange episode, is what it is.

0:36:52.360 --> 0:36:55.200
<v Speaker 1>And also Michael Landen knew what he was doing. Like,

0:36:55.520 --> 0:36:58.200
<v Speaker 1>both things are true at the same time. It's so weird,

0:36:58.960 --> 0:37:02.359
<v Speaker 1>it's also relevant. And also it's forty three years ago

0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:06.319
<v Speaker 1>and we're still talking about it, so I clearly the

0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:11.480
<v Speaker 1>man knew something. In the same way, Sylvia tackled what

0:37:11.520 --> 0:37:14.719
<v Speaker 1>in hindsight feels like a progressive subject for primetime television

0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:18.920
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen eighty and also depicted progressive attitudes around sex.

0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:22.439
<v Speaker 1>Little House of TV series could occupy both extremes too.

0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:26.520
<v Speaker 1>It could be incredibly open minded and at the same

0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:37.719
<v Speaker 1>time outdated and problematic. That's after the break. The Little

0:37:37.719 --> 0:37:40.800
<v Speaker 1>House in the Prairie television show, for all its sentimentality

0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:45.200
<v Speaker 1>and outdated tropes, still resonates with fans today. Similar to

0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:48.280
<v Speaker 1>what we've said about The Little House Books, certain episodes

0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:50.840
<v Speaker 1>seem to pop back up from time to time and

0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:54.319
<v Speaker 1>are newly relevant. In the spring of twenty twenty, the

0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:56.800
<v Speaker 1>height of the pandemic, a lot of people turn to

0:37:56.840 --> 0:37:59.919
<v Speaker 1>an episode called Quarantine. This is the one where miss

0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Edward's daughter, played by none other than Kyle Richards of

0:38:04.239 --> 0:38:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Real Housewives of Beverly Hills Fame gets sick with a

0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:12.440
<v Speaker 1>mysterious virus and she and Laura have to quarantine. And

0:38:12.520 --> 0:38:14.920
<v Speaker 1>then and the wake of George Floyd's murder and the

0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:18.799
<v Speaker 1>Black Lives Matter protests, another episode went viral.

0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:22.759
<v Speaker 4>That summer of twenty twenty, when the country was going

0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:25.319
<v Speaker 4>through what the country, the world was going through, that

0:38:25.440 --> 0:38:29.880
<v Speaker 4>massive social upheaval and unrest all around George Floyd and

0:38:29.880 --> 0:38:32.680
<v Speaker 4>Breonna Taylor and all of the horrible injustices that were

0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:35.760
<v Speaker 4>going on, the Wisdom of Solomon came up a lot.

0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:40.279
<v Speaker 1>That's TV Laura Melissa Gilbert again and she's talking about

0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:42.960
<v Speaker 1>an episode from season three called The Wisdom of Solomon,

0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:46.880
<v Speaker 1>guest starring then kid actor Todd Bridges, who would go

0:38:46.960 --> 0:38:50.120
<v Speaker 1>on to star in the eighty sitcom Different Strokes. In

0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:52.880
<v Speaker 1>the episode, Bridges plays a young black boy named Solomon

0:38:53.080 --> 0:38:55.560
<v Speaker 1>who runs away from his family because he wants an education.

0:38:56.680 --> 0:38:58.920
<v Speaker 17>I want to go to school like all the mother children.

0:39:00.160 --> 0:39:01.440
<v Speaker 12>That's the white man's school.

0:39:01.480 --> 0:39:03.239
<v Speaker 1>With honey, you can't go there.

0:39:05.719 --> 0:39:08.200
<v Speaker 17>Why if we're free?

0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Why canna he eventually comes across the Ingles, who are

0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:14.120
<v Speaker 1>kind to him and give him food and shelter and

0:39:14.200 --> 0:39:17.640
<v Speaker 1>take him to school. Laura, who has never met a

0:39:17.680 --> 0:39:21.200
<v Speaker 1>black person before, wipes Solomon's face to see if the

0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:25.600
<v Speaker 1>black will come off his skin. Melissa Gilbert acknowledges that

0:39:25.680 --> 0:39:28.040
<v Speaker 1>this scene felt cringey even when she was filming it.

0:39:28.920 --> 0:39:31.480
<v Speaker 4>I asked not to do it. I said to Michael,

0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:35.440
<v Speaker 4>I can't do that. That's horrible. He said, yeah, but

0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:38.680
<v Speaker 4>we're trying to show people how wrong it is to

0:39:38.719 --> 0:39:42.759
<v Speaker 4>be ignorant and how open Laura is to learning something new.

0:39:43.680 --> 0:39:45.520
<v Speaker 4>And I said, okay, well then I'll do it, but

0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:48.120
<v Speaker 4>you're I mean, I had to say, you're a real

0:39:48.280 --> 0:39:52.200
<v Speaker 4>Negro person and wipe the black guff with his face.

0:39:53.800 --> 0:39:57.879
<v Speaker 17>What you're doing, you are a real one.

0:39:58.080 --> 0:40:01.600
<v Speaker 4>As a fact I've never a real ego person before

0:40:02.120 --> 0:40:04.360
<v Speaker 4>was absurd to me. But once it was explained that

0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:07.080
<v Speaker 4>this is what we were doing and the lessons we

0:40:07.080 --> 0:40:09.800
<v Speaker 4>were teaching, that was impactful to me because I realized

0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:13.880
<v Speaker 4>that our show was more than just Laura's story.

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:16.040
<v Speaker 1>The truth Little House was trying to get at in

0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:19.640
<v Speaker 1>this episode was not one many primetime TV shows would

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:24.080
<v Speaker 1>have explored the climax arrives when Solomon stuns Charles Ingalls

0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:25.719
<v Speaker 1>with a profound question.

0:40:26.440 --> 0:40:29.680
<v Speaker 17>Would you rather be black and live to be one hundred?

0:40:30.760 --> 0:40:30.920
<v Speaker 8>Well?

0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:33.040
<v Speaker 7>Why I live to be fifty?

0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:38.800
<v Speaker 1>This clip routinely makes the rounds on Twitter and TikTok.

0:40:40.160 --> 0:40:44.400
<v Speaker 4>I was hearing on Twitter from people like Jamie Fox

0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:47.640
<v Speaker 4>and Biola Davis who knew Little House of the Prairie

0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:49.440
<v Speaker 4>was so woke and I'm sitting and hungry.

0:40:49.560 --> 0:40:50.560
<v Speaker 17>I did, I did?

0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:51.360
<v Speaker 12>I knew.

0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:56.160
<v Speaker 1>Here's writer and children's literature professor Lizzie Skurnik, describing watching

0:40:56.200 --> 0:40:58.400
<v Speaker 1>this episode as a child in the eighties.

0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:02.640
<v Speaker 18>Actually peaked suring myself watching it in my parents' bedroom

0:41:02.760 --> 0:41:05.600
<v Speaker 18>after school, like sitting on the floor in front of

0:41:05.640 --> 0:41:07.480
<v Speaker 18>their bed, probably with my brother.

0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:09.799
<v Speaker 1>You know, my mother is black, my.

0:41:09.800 --> 0:41:11.000
<v Speaker 10>Father is Jewish.

0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:12.240
<v Speaker 1>It didn't make me mad.

0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:14.440
<v Speaker 19>But then there's the idea of like, this is always

0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:16.400
<v Speaker 19>how black people show up on shows.

0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:18.040
<v Speaker 10>We're always on one show.

0:41:19.000 --> 0:41:21.120
<v Speaker 19>They just have to have a thing for white people

0:41:21.160 --> 0:41:24.600
<v Speaker 19>to connect with those White people refuse to connect with

0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:26.000
<v Speaker 19>black people as human beings.

0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:30.040
<v Speaker 10>White people were interested in black people insofar as they

0:41:30.120 --> 0:41:33.680
<v Speaker 10>were able to give black people a chance to say

0:41:33.800 --> 0:41:37.840
<v Speaker 10>racism was bad, thereby featuring themselves as people who thought.

0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:40.920
<v Speaker 19>Racism was bad, but thence we all know, not particularly

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:44.920
<v Speaker 19>interested in the actual story of any black people.

0:41:46.400 --> 0:41:48.680
<v Speaker 1>This is especially notable when you consider there is a

0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:53.080
<v Speaker 1>character in this episode, doctor Taine, who's based on a

0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:58.640
<v Speaker 1>real life black doctor named doctor Tan. Doctor Tan appears

0:41:58.680 --> 0:42:02.360
<v Speaker 1>in the book Little House on the In the TV show,

0:42:02.760 --> 0:42:07.160
<v Speaker 1>doctor Tayane is jaded and angry because white townspeople won't

0:42:07.239 --> 0:42:10.719
<v Speaker 1>let him practice medicine. This is a far cry from

0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:12.360
<v Speaker 1>doctor Tan's real story.

0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:16.719
<v Speaker 19>In that episode is like life is hard, and then

0:42:16.719 --> 0:42:20.440
<v Speaker 19>it's like the real Doctan was doing great. You know,

0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:24.280
<v Speaker 19>the real Doctan was the only doctor on the prairie

0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:28.080
<v Speaker 19>and a true doctor in that he saw everybody and

0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:32.919
<v Speaker 19>everybody saw him, and he was a terrific businessman.

0:42:33.400 --> 0:42:35.560
<v Speaker 4>So in that sense, it was kind of annoying. But

0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:38.719
<v Speaker 4>then on the other hand, Todd Bridges is famous.

0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:41.400
<v Speaker 1>Lizzie and I are the same age and grew up

0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:44.480
<v Speaker 1>with Little House reruns after school. By the time we

0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:48.240
<v Speaker 1>encountered The Wisdom of Solomon, its guest star, Todd Bridges

0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:50.600
<v Speaker 1>was very famous from different strokes.

0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:54.480
<v Speaker 10>So you know, you're feeling like Oh, this is Chid Bridges.

0:42:54.600 --> 0:42:58.000
<v Speaker 1>This is cool today. Clips from the Wisdom of Solomon

0:42:58.040 --> 0:43:01.360
<v Speaker 1>can feel shockingly ahead of their time, but the truth

0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:04.680
<v Speaker 1>is the episode was very much of its moment. The

0:43:04.719 --> 0:43:08.319
<v Speaker 1>Wisdom of Solomon originally aired in nineteen seventy seven, just

0:43:08.480 --> 0:43:11.480
<v Speaker 1>weeks after the final episode of the mini series Roots.

0:43:12.320 --> 0:43:15.600
<v Speaker 1>Roots was based on Alex Haley's best selling novel about slavery,

0:43:16.160 --> 0:43:19.600
<v Speaker 1>and its final episode remains the second most watched overall

0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:24.279
<v Speaker 1>series finale in US television history. So the decision to

0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:26.880
<v Speaker 1>do the Wisdom of Solomon may have been partly a

0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:30.480
<v Speaker 1>matter of land in recognizing what audiences wanted and trying

0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:32.200
<v Speaker 1>to benefit from the ratings juggernaut.

0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:36.480
<v Speaker 4>Whenever I look at these shows as it grown up,

0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:40.279
<v Speaker 4>I always just see a group of people around a

0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:43.640
<v Speaker 4>table trying to think of ideas, Like I think you.

0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:47.800
<v Speaker 19>Can, like see this spitballing coming from a mile away.

0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Does that mean these stories can't have a positive effect,

0:43:52.880 --> 0:43:57.360
<v Speaker 1>Lizzie thinks, oftentimes they actually underscore a larger problem, the

0:43:57.400 --> 0:43:59.320
<v Speaker 1>same problem that's in the Little House Books.

0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:04.400
<v Speaker 18>The show then creates the reality that people think existed.

0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:09.319
<v Speaker 13>If you talk about the Frontier, people think the frontier

0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:14.520
<v Speaker 13>was white, but I do think the dangerous propaganda being like, oh, well,

0:44:14.560 --> 0:44:18.040
<v Speaker 13>you know, you're just telling an ancillary story when you

0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:20.400
<v Speaker 13>talk about black people on the prairie, tech about the

0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:24.120
<v Speaker 13>Native Americans, because people have absorbed this idea that white

0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:27.799
<v Speaker 13>people are central, and it's like, hey, like I'm not

0:44:27.840 --> 0:44:31.960
<v Speaker 13>being an activist, I'm being accurate. White people are not

0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:33.960
<v Speaker 13>central to American culture.

0:44:34.920 --> 0:44:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Native American scholar Gwen Westerman also remembers watching Little House

0:44:39.080 --> 0:44:39.560
<v Speaker 1>as a kid.

0:44:40.520 --> 0:44:44.200
<v Speaker 3>I love the TV show, but I never thought that

0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:49.080
<v Speaker 3>much about it. Coming to it as an adult has

0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:53.240
<v Speaker 3>been a much different experience. We were on a trip

0:44:53.320 --> 0:44:58.400
<v Speaker 3>somewhere and watching TV in the hotel room when the

0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:02.000
<v Speaker 3>episode of Little House on the came on, and it

0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:06.919
<v Speaker 3>was in the winter and a Dakota man helped save

0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:11.799
<v Speaker 3>Paw from the blizzard. And once we got past the

0:45:11.920 --> 0:45:18.400
<v Speaker 3>terrible makeup the clothes that the man was wearing, they

0:45:18.480 --> 0:45:22.720
<v Speaker 3>made him look like the typical Hollywood stereotype of Indian.

0:45:23.239 --> 0:45:27.719
<v Speaker 3>He never spoke a word, He just helped Paw and

0:45:27.840 --> 0:45:31.400
<v Speaker 3>they helped him, and then he walked off into the snow.

0:45:32.760 --> 0:45:35.600
<v Speaker 1>Similar to Lizzie saying she was excited to see Todd Bridges,

0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:39.799
<v Speaker 1>this conversation feels complicated by the fact that even insulting

0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:43.400
<v Speaker 1>descriptions on screen were sometimes better than not seeing yourself

0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:44.840
<v Speaker 1>at all.

0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:50.640
<v Speaker 3>So to see Native people on TV, even in the caricature,

0:45:51.600 --> 0:45:57.880
<v Speaker 3>was during that period of validation that we existed. So

0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:02.760
<v Speaker 3>those were representations, but they.

0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:03.640
<v Speaker 1>Were not the.

0:46:05.480 --> 0:46:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Reality that I knew growing up in a very strong

0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:13.839
<v Speaker 3>and vibrant intertribal community. So we always kind of had

0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:16.640
<v Speaker 3>to balance that, but at least there was validation there

0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:19.200
<v Speaker 3>that people knew that we existed.

0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Despite Landon's desire to make Little House relevant when it

0:46:23.520 --> 0:46:27.000
<v Speaker 1>came to depictions of Native Americans, he was unable or

0:46:27.080 --> 0:46:30.480
<v Speaker 1>unwilling to translate events right outside his door onto his

0:46:30.480 --> 0:46:36.359
<v Speaker 1>fictional prairie. Another one one that even as a kid,

0:46:36.400 --> 0:46:39.120
<v Speaker 1>I was aware of, are the women on the prairie.

0:46:40.000 --> 0:46:44.400
<v Speaker 1>The girls were fine, but the grown women not so much.

0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:48.839
<v Speaker 4>We're reflecting the eighteen hundred to one women had zero

0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:53.080
<v Speaker 4>rights and a reflection of the nineteen seventies, where women

0:46:53.160 --> 0:46:56.799
<v Speaker 4>had maybe a half a point of rights.

0:46:57.480 --> 0:46:59.560
<v Speaker 1>The issue of women's rights seems like it could be

0:46:59.600 --> 0:47:03.719
<v Speaker 1>good to copy now, especially since the second wave feminist

0:47:03.719 --> 0:47:08.239
<v Speaker 1>movement was raging and Landon was surrounded by self avowed feminists.

0:47:09.320 --> 0:47:10.600
<v Speaker 1>Here's Lizzie again.

0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:15.320
<v Speaker 19>The first show the livitations of their creator.

0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:18.560
<v Speaker 18>You know, you might not learn a lot about the

0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:21.399
<v Speaker 18>prairie from Little House on the Prairie, but you learn

0:47:21.440 --> 0:47:25.200
<v Speaker 18>a lot about Michael Landon and the seventies and television,

0:47:25.440 --> 0:47:29.400
<v Speaker 18>and you know, male ideals and feminine ideals.

0:47:30.080 --> 0:47:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes more modern storylines came through, but those feminine ideals

0:47:34.960 --> 0:47:36.239
<v Speaker 1>were ever present.

0:47:37.120 --> 0:47:40.960
<v Speaker 4>And we even touched on women's rights and chauvinism and

0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:44.480
<v Speaker 4>the mistreatment of women at the same time, while marginalizing

0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:48.680
<v Speaker 4>women to do nothing but poor coffee, sometimes for many

0:47:48.719 --> 0:47:52.520
<v Speaker 4>episodes at a time. One of the most staunch feminists

0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:55.560
<v Speaker 4>I know was Karen Gresley, who was one of the

0:47:55.760 --> 0:47:57.399
<v Speaker 4>great coffee pourers of all time.

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:04.520
<v Speaker 17>I felt myself to be a polar opposite of Carolyn Ingoes.

0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:09.440
<v Speaker 1>That's Karen Grassley, the actor who played Laura's beloved ma.

0:48:10.760 --> 0:48:15.200
<v Speaker 17>I wasn't married, I didn't have children. I was, you know,

0:48:15.760 --> 0:48:20.919
<v Speaker 17>from the sexual revolution. I mean, the little woman had

0:48:21.080 --> 0:48:25.040
<v Speaker 17>never been my goal, and so there were times when

0:48:25.080 --> 0:48:30.920
<v Speaker 17>the choices offered to Carolyn in the script wrinkled.

0:48:31.680 --> 0:48:33.840
<v Speaker 1>But Karen is quick to acknowledge that Michael knew what

0:48:33.880 --> 0:48:36.920
<v Speaker 1>he was doing. He was directing the most crowd pleasing

0:48:37.000 --> 0:48:40.399
<v Speaker 1>version of events, creating the wholesome family center that would

0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:41.200
<v Speaker 1>make the show a hit.

0:48:42.520 --> 0:48:45.400
<v Speaker 17>And this is not at all a criticism. This is

0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:50.879
<v Speaker 17>just an example of how Michael knew his vision, and

0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:56.240
<v Speaker 17>he knew what he wanted and in fact was well

0:48:56.280 --> 0:49:00.040
<v Speaker 17>connected to his audience. He knew what they wanted to do.

0:49:00.640 --> 0:49:03.160
<v Speaker 1>And what every audience in all of history is wanted

0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:06.759
<v Speaker 1>is romance. And there's very little of it in the

0:49:06.800 --> 0:49:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Little House Books. Even Laura Almonso's courting is chased, but

0:49:11.560 --> 0:49:16.440
<v Speaker 1>naturally there's plenty of romance on Landon's prairie. Mister Edwards

0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:20.759
<v Speaker 1>goes according Mary, falls in love, gets jilted, falls in

0:49:20.800 --> 0:49:25.080
<v Speaker 1>love again. But nothing compares to what happens to Laura

0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:29.280
<v Speaker 1>the second she hits puberty. Like the second from girl

0:49:29.280 --> 0:49:32.719
<v Speaker 1>in Braids to boy obsessed teen will obsessed with one

0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:35.919
<v Speaker 1>boy who's actually not a boy at all. We don't

0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:38.759
<v Speaker 1>mean that in the progressive way, which brings us to

0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:40.719
<v Speaker 1>the episode Sweet sixteen.

0:49:41.360 --> 0:49:43.560
<v Speaker 9>So my name is Dean Butler, and I played al

0:49:43.640 --> 0:49:46.719
<v Speaker 9>Manzil Wilder from nineteen seventy nine through nineteen eighty three

0:49:46.960 --> 0:49:49.080
<v Speaker 9>on the Little House television series.

0:49:49.600 --> 0:49:52.560
<v Speaker 1>At the beginning of season six, Dean Butler was cast

0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:56.280
<v Speaker 1>as Laura's love interest and future husband, al Manzo Wilder.

0:49:56.880 --> 0:50:00.080
<v Speaker 1>At the time, Dean was twenty three and Melissa so

0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Gilbert was fifteen.

0:50:02.520 --> 0:50:04.680
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I can't even tell you what a girl

0:50:04.719 --> 0:50:07.280
<v Speaker 4>I was. I mean, I was a gidget fourteen, fifteen

0:50:07.360 --> 0:50:10.359
<v Speaker 4>years old, not need bucktooth, still had braces on.

0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:13.799
<v Speaker 9>I towered over her. You know, I'm six one and

0:50:13.800 --> 0:50:18.520
<v Speaker 9>a half. Melissa was what five ' five something like that.

0:50:18.960 --> 0:50:21.239
<v Speaker 9>She always commented the fact that you know that I

0:50:21.320 --> 0:50:23.960
<v Speaker 9>drove my own car the set, that I.

0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:26.440
<v Speaker 4>Shaved, I'd been on a date and kissed a boy.

0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:28.960
<v Speaker 9>I was just so much bigger than she was.

0:50:29.200 --> 0:50:31.360
<v Speaker 4>Well, I can tell you from the lens of today,

0:50:31.880 --> 0:50:34.640
<v Speaker 4>you can't do that. There's no way they could shoot it.

0:50:34.719 --> 0:50:36.839
<v Speaker 4>There's no way they would cast it that way, and

0:50:36.880 --> 0:50:38.839
<v Speaker 4>there's certainly no way it would be handled the way

0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:39.480
<v Speaker 4>it was handled.

0:50:40.560 --> 0:50:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Sweet sixteen is the second to last episode of season six.

0:50:44.480 --> 0:50:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Laura has had a crush and all Monso for the

0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:50.440
<v Speaker 1>entire season, but her affection has not been returned, and

0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:53.759
<v Speaker 1>she's given up hope taking a teaching job out of town.

0:50:54.640 --> 0:50:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Her hair has gone up into a bun, so we

0:50:57.000 --> 0:50:59.840
<v Speaker 1>know she's a grown up now. Almanza sees a lot

0:50:59.920 --> 0:51:03.840
<v Speaker 1>of day and at the end of this episode, they kiss.

0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:08.320
<v Speaker 1>According to IMDb, it's one of the highest rated episodes

0:51:08.360 --> 0:51:11.759
<v Speaker 1>of the series. Melissa Gilbert was fifteen when they filmed it.

0:51:13.320 --> 0:51:15.560
<v Speaker 4>Now we have intimacy coordinators and we have all this

0:51:15.719 --> 0:51:19.520
<v Speaker 4>dialogue around being comfortable and feeling safe, which is amazing.

0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:22.520
<v Speaker 4>Nobody talked to me about it. It was just it

0:51:22.600 --> 0:51:26.480
<v Speaker 4>was nobody said, are you uncomfortable? Are you okay? Is

0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:29.399
<v Speaker 4>this all right? I remember being told that the al

0:51:29.480 --> 0:51:32.440
<v Speaker 4>Manzo episodes were coming. Fortunately we had a little run

0:51:32.520 --> 0:51:34.840
<v Speaker 4>up to the actual marriage and stuff. But by the

0:51:34.880 --> 0:51:37.160
<v Speaker 4>time we got to the sweet sixteen episode and the

0:51:37.200 --> 0:51:39.080
<v Speaker 4>first kiss and all of that, it was you know,

0:51:39.120 --> 0:51:41.200
<v Speaker 4>I knew Dean, and I liked Dean, and I got

0:51:41.239 --> 0:51:44.279
<v Speaker 4>along with Dean, but I still felt like I was

0:51:44.360 --> 0:51:48.600
<v Speaker 4>out of my element. To put it mildly, there certainly.

0:51:48.239 --> 0:51:52.560
<v Speaker 9>Would be nothing like that today. That would never happen today.

0:51:53.200 --> 0:51:59.120
<v Speaker 9>But again, Michael's numbers were huge. NBC was not going

0:51:59.200 --> 0:52:02.360
<v Speaker 9>to screw around with this. You know, it was working.

0:52:02.680 --> 0:52:05.719
<v Speaker 9>The audience was tuning in, they were watching, they were

0:52:05.760 --> 0:52:08.600
<v Speaker 9>coming to see this, and they came to see this

0:52:09.080 --> 0:52:12.120
<v Speaker 9>romance in enormous numbers.

0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Three episodes later, at the beginning of season seven, Lauren Almonzo, Mary,

0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:22.120
<v Speaker 1>I must tell you that even as a kid, this

0:52:22.160 --> 0:52:25.600
<v Speaker 1>did not stand out to me as a problem at all,

0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:29.480
<v Speaker 1>which I told Dean in our conversation. No, as a

0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:32.479
<v Speaker 1>kid watching, I was just like, oh, this makes complete sense,

0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:35.480
<v Speaker 1>and now her hair isn't embraids anymore. But I'm quite

0:52:35.480 --> 0:52:38.200
<v Speaker 1>sure I thought fifteen was ancient. And I was also

0:52:38.239 --> 0:52:40.719
<v Speaker 1>devoted to the I mean devoted to the books too,

0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:42.759
<v Speaker 1>And in the books there is a ten year age

0:52:42.800 --> 0:52:44.839
<v Speaker 1>gap between the two of them, and she does meet

0:52:44.920 --> 0:52:48.160
<v Speaker 1>him at age fifteen in the books, so I'm not.

0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:49.960
<v Speaker 9>Sure you had married Jel eighteen.

0:52:50.280 --> 0:52:51.080
<v Speaker 12>Oh right.

0:52:51.560 --> 0:52:54.239
<v Speaker 1>But I also think, like we have a different Our

0:52:54.840 --> 0:53:00.000
<v Speaker 1>understanding of age and age differences has shifted dramatically even

0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:03.240
<v Speaker 1>since the eighties, in good ways. But it's a different

0:53:03.280 --> 0:53:04.440
<v Speaker 1>conversation than I just.

0:53:04.360 --> 0:53:06.680
<v Speaker 4>Thought this was real life too, So just to be clear, there.

0:53:06.560 --> 0:53:08.760
<v Speaker 1>Was no like, would this actress have had a problem.

0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:12.719
<v Speaker 1>I was like, well, it's Lauren Almonzo. These contradictions within

0:53:12.719 --> 0:53:15.560
<v Speaker 1>the Little House series were one week you'd see something

0:53:15.560 --> 0:53:18.920
<v Speaker 1>that felt boundary breaking, and the next week something that

0:53:18.920 --> 0:53:23.440
<v Speaker 1>felt sort of like a strange cultural throwback. In many ways,

0:53:23.480 --> 0:53:28.440
<v Speaker 1>mirror the contradictions inherent to Michael Landon himself. On the

0:53:28.480 --> 0:53:31.120
<v Speaker 1>one hand, he was a family man who ran his

0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:33.439
<v Speaker 1>set as a tight ship so that his crew could

0:53:33.440 --> 0:53:36.680
<v Speaker 1>go home on time. Charlotte Stewart, who played Miss Beatle,

0:53:36.960 --> 0:53:38.680
<v Speaker 1>remembers this especially.

0:53:39.239 --> 0:53:41.840
<v Speaker 11>Most of the television shows that we did in those days,

0:53:42.000 --> 0:53:44.640
<v Speaker 11>they'd work you till ten eleven o'clock at night and

0:53:44.680 --> 0:53:46.239
<v Speaker 11>he had to come back in at like six in

0:53:46.280 --> 0:53:48.680
<v Speaker 11>the morning, and they didn't care. They would pay for it.

0:53:49.880 --> 0:53:54.120
<v Speaker 11>But Michael was a family man and the guys, all

0:53:54.160 --> 0:53:56.040
<v Speaker 11>the men and women that worked for him on the crew,

0:53:56.440 --> 0:54:00.160
<v Speaker 11>being at families like every on the television show, but

0:54:00.239 --> 0:54:03.680
<v Speaker 11>who cared. Michael made sure they got home for dinner

0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:04.360
<v Speaker 11>at seven.

0:54:05.800 --> 0:54:09.080
<v Speaker 1>On the other hand, he had a rather messy personal

0:54:09.120 --> 0:54:12.160
<v Speaker 1>life at times, certainly not one Charles Ingalls would have

0:54:12.239 --> 0:54:13.680
<v Speaker 1>led on the Prairie.

0:54:14.680 --> 0:54:19.280
<v Speaker 4>This was a man who espoused family values and community values,

0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:22.600
<v Speaker 4>and was married three times and had children, was three

0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:26.680
<v Speaker 4>different women, and was deeply flawed and human. But who

0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:30.960
<v Speaker 4>isn't doesn't mean he's a bad person. It just means

0:54:30.960 --> 0:54:31.920
<v Speaker 4>he's a human person.

0:54:33.320 --> 0:54:36.720
<v Speaker 1>Everyone we spoke with talks about Michael Landon's incredible work ethic,

0:54:37.360 --> 0:54:40.880
<v Speaker 1>and his respect for his cast and crew. Alison Arngrim

0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:43.400
<v Speaker 1>writes in her memoir that the child actors of Little

0:54:43.400 --> 0:54:46.359
<v Speaker 1>House boast that there have been no arrests and no convictions.

0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Michael was devoted to the show and protective over his

0:54:50.560 --> 0:54:53.960
<v Speaker 1>creative vision, which is most visible, and how he decided

0:54:53.960 --> 0:55:00.799
<v Speaker 1>to end the show. So, Joe, guess how the series ends?

0:55:02.080 --> 0:55:10.120
<v Speaker 6>Alien invasion, zombie apocalypse, an invasion of a clown mime army.

0:55:11.280 --> 0:55:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Close. But no, they blow up Walnut Grove.

0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:20.280
<v Speaker 10>No they don't. They blow up the town.

0:55:20.640 --> 0:55:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, A tycoon comes in and buys all of the

0:55:25.560 --> 0:55:30.239
<v Speaker 1>land and all of the buildings in Walnut Grove and

0:55:31.040 --> 0:55:34.240
<v Speaker 1>they can't get any of them back, so their only

0:55:34.400 --> 0:55:37.720
<v Speaker 1>recourse is to blow up the entire town.

0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:47.160
<v Speaker 6>As one does, as one does.

0:55:49.160 --> 0:55:50.880
<v Speaker 1>I think I went back to this as a teenager

0:55:50.960 --> 0:55:54.440
<v Speaker 1>to remember if I remembered this correctly. Because I watched this,

0:55:54.560 --> 0:55:57.040
<v Speaker 1>I was old enough to watch this in primetime, and

0:55:57.120 --> 0:56:00.080
<v Speaker 1>for years I wondered if I'd imagined it, they blow

0:56:00.160 --> 0:56:03.200
<v Speaker 1>up the entire town. Yeah, And the thing is they

0:56:03.200 --> 0:56:07.040
<v Speaker 1>blew They actually blew the set up in real life

0:56:07.200 --> 0:56:12.040
<v Speaker 1>because Michael Landon did not want anyone else coming along

0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:15.120
<v Speaker 1>and using his little House on the Prairie set, so

0:56:15.160 --> 0:56:19.160
<v Speaker 1>he blew it up, and he wrote the episode around that.

0:56:19.160 --> 0:56:22.200
<v Speaker 6>That's such a dude thing to do. It's like mine, mine, mine,

0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:24.799
<v Speaker 6>no one else, no one else is going to be

0:56:24.840 --> 0:56:26.200
<v Speaker 6>here after I'm gone.

0:56:27.160 --> 0:56:29.120
<v Speaker 1>And then the crazy thing too is the last shot

0:56:29.160 --> 0:56:31.680
<v Speaker 1>of the last episode is they don't blow up the

0:56:31.680 --> 0:56:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Little House like they don't blow up the iconic Little House.

0:56:34.200 --> 0:56:37.000
<v Speaker 1>That's the empty little House is the last shot. And

0:56:37.080 --> 0:56:40.440
<v Speaker 1>in real life he also didn't blow up the Little House.

0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:43.080
<v Speaker 1>It burnt down in a fire, like a random fire

0:56:43.239 --> 0:56:47.279
<v Speaker 1>years later. So, I mean, the blurring of fact and

0:56:47.320 --> 0:56:50.160
<v Speaker 1>fiction in the Little House world continues right to the

0:56:50.280 --> 0:56:51.680
<v Speaker 1>very end of the television series.

0:56:52.480 --> 0:56:55.600
<v Speaker 6>Michael Landon was a real special kind of trip, is

0:56:55.600 --> 0:57:00.000
<v Speaker 6>is what I'm gotting from this episode?

0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:05.239
<v Speaker 1>Go Landon was? I mean, cosmically speaking, it sort of

0:57:05.280 --> 0:57:10.680
<v Speaker 1>feels like could there have been a more perfect person

0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:16.120
<v Speaker 1>to continue the Little House legacy? Truly, He's sort of

0:57:16.200 --> 0:57:17.640
<v Speaker 1>perfectly formed for it.

0:57:18.280 --> 0:57:21.720
<v Speaker 6>Honestly, what do you think Laura would have thought of

0:57:22.040 --> 0:57:25.240
<v Speaker 6>what became of her legacy on these TV shows?

0:57:26.680 --> 0:57:29.160
<v Speaker 1>So, Like, in doing this episode, the funny thing I

0:57:29.240 --> 0:57:34.360
<v Speaker 1>kept coming back to is the similarities between Rose and

0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Michael Landon, Like two people who were amazing storytellers and

0:57:41.400 --> 0:57:45.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, could take these simple tales and then fictionalize

0:57:45.560 --> 0:57:48.560
<v Speaker 1>them in a way that we can't get enough of,

0:57:49.520 --> 0:57:51.960
<v Speaker 1>and take these characters and turn them into sort of

0:57:52.000 --> 0:57:55.600
<v Speaker 1>these like heroic male heroes. Rose, as we know, loved

0:57:55.760 --> 0:58:00.360
<v Speaker 1>taking men and turning their biographies into these heroic story

0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:03.240
<v Speaker 1>so I kind of feel like Rose would have loved

0:58:03.240 --> 0:58:05.840
<v Speaker 1>Michael Landon. I don't know what Laura would have thought,

0:58:05.920 --> 0:58:08.280
<v Speaker 1>because she was very you know, she was of her time.

0:58:08.320 --> 0:58:10.320
<v Speaker 1>She was very conservative and didn't like talking about sex.

0:58:10.320 --> 0:58:14.400
<v Speaker 1>But I think and would have gotten on great. Both

0:58:14.520 --> 0:58:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Rose and Michael Landon saw these essential truths in Laura's

0:58:20.040 --> 0:58:24.520
<v Speaker 1>story and tapped into them in such a deep way

0:58:25.440 --> 0:58:31.040
<v Speaker 1>that it's so satisfying. We can't get enough of the

0:58:31.080 --> 0:58:33.920
<v Speaker 1>simple tale of little House.

0:58:34.120 --> 0:58:37.920
<v Speaker 6>They tapped into Laura's story in such a way to

0:58:38.040 --> 0:58:40.280
<v Speaker 6>create some completely bonkers content.

0:58:40.800 --> 0:58:43.360
<v Speaker 1>It completely bonkers.

0:58:43.160 --> 0:58:47.360
<v Speaker 6>So look, Laura was clearly beloved. Her stories are clearly beloved.

0:58:47.400 --> 0:58:49.840
<v Speaker 6>And what I'm taken away from this episode is that

0:58:49.880 --> 0:58:52.040
<v Speaker 6>Michael Landon was very beloved.

0:58:53.560 --> 0:58:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Even the people we talked to who talked about him

0:58:56.240 --> 0:59:00.560
<v Speaker 1>being complicated or flawed, everybody loved him. Like literally everybody

0:59:00.600 --> 0:59:06.200
<v Speaker 1>loved him. People followed him around. He was beloved. Michael

0:59:06.240 --> 0:59:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Landon remained a beloved figure for the rest of his career,

0:59:10.040 --> 0:59:13.320
<v Speaker 1>and then in nineteen ninety one, at the age of

0:59:13.360 --> 0:59:16.640
<v Speaker 1>fifty four, he called a press conference at his home

0:59:16.680 --> 0:59:20.920
<v Speaker 1>to announce a terminal cancer diagnosis. But Landon faced the

0:59:20.960 --> 0:59:25.040
<v Speaker 1>diagnosis with his usual charm in humor, as he demonstrated

0:59:25.040 --> 0:59:28.680
<v Speaker 1>in his final Tonight Show interview with Johnny Carson, You've.

0:59:28.520 --> 0:59:30.200
<v Speaker 9>Got a pilot you made for this fall.

0:59:30.320 --> 0:59:33.600
<v Speaker 7>That's right, called us, called us, made it for CBS.

0:59:33.840 --> 0:59:34.600
<v Speaker 16>I don't get better.

0:59:34.600 --> 0:59:36.600
<v Speaker 7>It's their second mistake since buying baseball.

0:59:38.320 --> 0:59:40.080
<v Speaker 5>So you know, I was a.

0:59:40.080 --> 0:59:42.120
<v Speaker 9>Little worried about this interview. Now you've made me feel

0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:42.640
<v Speaker 9>much better.

0:59:44.520 --> 0:59:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Whatever his complications, Michael Landon made everyone feel better, So

0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:51.960
<v Speaker 1>it was even more shocking when he died just two

0:59:51.960 --> 0:59:56.640
<v Speaker 1>months later. But as Landon predicted way back when he

0:59:56.680 --> 1:00:00.560
<v Speaker 1>conceived of the show. Decades later, Little How lives on.

1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:04.000
<v Speaker 4>He said, you know everyone's going to be watching these

1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:07.160
<v Speaker 4>shows long after we're all gone, he said, long after

1:00:07.280 --> 1:00:09.800
<v Speaker 4>I'm dead. It was like this prophetic thing and everyone

1:00:09.880 --> 1:00:12.440
<v Speaker 4>he said it to it, Yeah right, oh by it,

1:00:13.440 --> 1:00:14.840
<v Speaker 4>and like didn't believe him.

1:00:15.520 --> 1:00:19.240
<v Speaker 1>We didn't get it, Michael got a half century later.

1:00:19.320 --> 1:00:22.280
<v Speaker 1>The stars of the show continue to draw huge audiences

1:00:23.040 --> 1:00:27.080
<v Speaker 1>in real life. People come to fan conventions, to events

1:00:27.080 --> 1:00:30.400
<v Speaker 1>at the actual Laura Ingalls houses, to book signings.

1:00:31.120 --> 1:00:33.840
<v Speaker 2>We get the people who come for autographs and sometimes

1:00:33.840 --> 1:00:37.320
<v Speaker 2>they cry because it's so intense to meet the person

1:00:37.400 --> 1:00:40.120
<v Speaker 2>that you've grown up watching. I know, Melissa Gilbert, obviously

1:00:40.160 --> 1:00:43.080
<v Speaker 2>it's Laura shed People just go into a coma. A

1:00:43.120 --> 1:00:45.320
<v Speaker 2>lot of people don't think they're gonna be emotional that

1:00:45.400 --> 1:00:48.120
<v Speaker 2>they meet Maw and that voice and she sounds the

1:00:48.160 --> 1:00:51.160
<v Speaker 2>same and she's so sweet you that's I see. People

1:00:51.240 --> 1:00:54.120
<v Speaker 2>really lose it over. Charlotte Stewart, Missus Beadle.

1:00:54.800 --> 1:00:57.080
<v Speaker 1>All the actors we spoke with, seems grateful to be

1:00:57.120 --> 1:00:58.480
<v Speaker 1>part of the Little House legacy.

1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:05.320
<v Speaker 17>Cute visit Wanna Grove is to relax and know that

1:01:05.600 --> 1:01:07.640
<v Speaker 17>people are about to show up for each other.

1:01:08.760 --> 1:01:10.800
<v Speaker 11>When I got Little House on the Prairie, people in

1:01:10.840 --> 1:01:14.240
<v Speaker 11>Hollywood went, what Little House on the What?

1:01:15.160 --> 1:01:15.680
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

1:01:15.720 --> 1:01:16.440
<v Speaker 1>How boring?

1:01:16.880 --> 1:01:18.880
<v Speaker 11>Well, guess what, We're still on the air.

1:01:19.960 --> 1:01:23.440
<v Speaker 9>It's as big a gift as anything I've ever received

1:01:23.440 --> 1:01:27.440
<v Speaker 9>in my life. To be associated with those books, with

1:01:27.880 --> 1:01:33.200
<v Speaker 9>that woman, with those stories, with that television show is

1:01:33.240 --> 1:01:34.400
<v Speaker 9>the gift of a lifetime.

1:01:34.760 --> 1:01:37.680
<v Speaker 4>Not a day goes by that I don't think about

1:01:37.960 --> 1:01:40.240
<v Speaker 4>Little House in the Prairie or mention something to do

1:01:40.280 --> 1:01:42.720
<v Speaker 4>with Little House in the Prarie, or Laura or Rose

1:01:42.960 --> 1:01:47.480
<v Speaker 4>or the Ingles relatives, or something that has something to

1:01:47.480 --> 1:01:50.560
<v Speaker 4>do with them. And it's so infused in my being

1:01:51.000 --> 1:01:52.200
<v Speaker 4>at this point.

1:01:55.960 --> 1:01:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes it feels like Laura Ingles Wilder has had nine lives.

1:02:00.080 --> 1:02:04.160
<v Speaker 1>She's been reimagined so many times, for better and for worse.

1:02:05.440 --> 1:02:07.560
<v Speaker 1>When Laura and Rose sat down to write the books,

1:02:08.040 --> 1:02:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Laura wanted to preserve her family's legacy. She had no

1:02:11.600 --> 1:02:14.880
<v Speaker 1>idea she was creating such a lasting brand, but that's

1:02:14.920 --> 1:02:18.520
<v Speaker 1>exactly what she did. Laura not only inspired a TV

1:02:18.640 --> 1:02:21.960
<v Speaker 1>show we're still watching, she launched the careers of many

1:02:22.000 --> 1:02:25.960
<v Speaker 1>stars we still know about. She spawned additional book series,

1:02:26.440 --> 1:02:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Fashion brands, entire lifestyles, businesses that have made millions of dollars.

1:02:33.400 --> 1:02:35.440
<v Speaker 1>And that's what we're going to talk about next week

1:02:35.960 --> 1:02:45.120
<v Speaker 1>when we dig into the Business of Laura. Wilder is

1:02:45.120 --> 1:02:49.440
<v Speaker 1>written and hosted by Me, Glennis McNichol. Our story editors

1:02:49.440 --> 1:02:53.760
<v Speaker 1>our Joe Piazza and Emily Meronoff. Our senior producer is

1:02:53.800 --> 1:02:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Emily Maroanoff. Our producers are Mary dou Sheina Ozaki and

1:02:59.600 --> 1:03:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Jessica crime Chitch. Our associate producer is Lauren Phillip. Sound

1:03:05.240 --> 1:03:08.960
<v Speaker 1>design and mixing by Amanda ro Smith. Our scene in

1:03:09.000 --> 1:03:13.680
<v Speaker 1>additional music was composed by Alise McCoy. We are executive

1:03:13.680 --> 1:03:17.720
<v Speaker 1>produced by Joe Piazza, Nikki Tor, Ali Perry and Me.

1:03:19.400 --> 1:03:23.280
<v Speaker 1>If you're enjoying Wilder, please consider rating and reviewing us

1:03:23.320 --> 1:03:26.600
<v Speaker 1>on Apple Podcasts. It actually helps us out quite a lot.

1:03:27.840 --> 1:03:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Extra special thanks to Dean Butler for connecting us to

1:03:30.640 --> 1:03:34.160
<v Speaker 1>so many Little House cast and crew members. Thank you

1:03:34.200 --> 1:03:36.560
<v Speaker 1>to the Friendly Family for helping us navigate the Little

1:03:36.560 --> 1:03:40.720
<v Speaker 1>House world. Thanks to NBC for allowing us to use

1:03:40.760 --> 1:03:44.280
<v Speaker 1>Little House on the Prairie clips. Thanks to Michael Landon

1:03:44.320 --> 1:03:47.600
<v Speaker 1>for letting an entire generation know it's all right. To cry.

1:03:48.960 --> 1:03:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, as always to CDM Studios. We've listed extensive

1:03:53.480 --> 1:03:55.720
<v Speaker 1>resources in our show notes on all the topics we've

1:03:55.760 --> 1:03:58.880
<v Speaker 1>discussed in this episode. You can also find our contact

1:03:58.920 --> 1:04:00.320
<v Speaker 1>and go there if you want to write us with

1:04:00.320 --> 1:04:03.880
<v Speaker 1>your own thoughts and questions. Follow us on Instagram at

1:04:03.920 --> 1:04:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Wilder Underscore podcast and on TikTok at Wilder Podcast, where

1:04:09.400 --> 1:04:12.000
<v Speaker 1>you can see behind the scenes footage from all our travels.

1:04:13.800 --> 1:04:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.