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Speaker 1: You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and

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Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast

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Speaker 1: are solely those of the individuals participating in the show

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Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.

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Speaker 1: This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable

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Speaker 1: for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Facing Evil from Tenderfoot

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Speaker 2: TV and iHeartRadio. We are your hosts. I'm Rosha Pecerrero.

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Speaker 3: And I am her amazing sister eveg and Tela. Yes,

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Speaker 3: you are.

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Speaker 2: Pat on the back for you.

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Speaker 3: You guys. I think I'm like, you know, here in

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Speaker 3: San Francisco, we've been having a heat wave, which doesn't

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Speaker 3: happen often, so I feel like I'm going a little

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Speaker 3: goofy like with each stroke or the normal. Yeah, a

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Speaker 3: little bit more than normal, Rush Trevor.

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Speaker 1: It's not great, though, I'm told it's worse in other

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Speaker 1: parts of the country right now, like the South and

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Speaker 1: parts of Texas and Georgia and places like that. It's

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Speaker 1: like been hitting the hundreds already.

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Speaker 3: So oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: Relatively speaking, I guess mild like we've been in the

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Speaker 1: eighties or so.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: Well, here in Portland, it's a heat wave for us

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Speaker 2: and it's only in the seventies. So putting the lesbian

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Speaker 2: in the closet to record this podcast is not very nice,

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Speaker 2: but whatever, It's fine.

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Speaker 3: And Rush you're you are actually in a closet where

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Speaker 3: I am.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually in a closet recording this right, literally but

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Speaker 2: not figuratively, because we know I'm out loud and proud. Well,

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Speaker 2: with all of that being said, Trevor, can you take

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Speaker 2: us through today's case.

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Speaker 4: Twenty five years since the death of charm beauty queen

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Speaker 4: John Beard Ramsey, police are still not closer to funding

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Speaker 4: hekila me, what's going on?

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Speaker 3: Okay? The young web.

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Speaker 1: This bizarre ransom note we have your daughter found inside

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Speaker 1: the family home in Boulder, Colorado.

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Speaker 3: I did not have anything to do with it. I

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Speaker 3: love that child with my whull of my heart and soul.

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Speaker 1: John Benet Ramsay was a six year old child beauty

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Speaker 1: pageant competitor who was killed on Christmas of nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 1: This became what was likely the biggest news story of

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Speaker 1: ninety six and ninety seven, and had since become one

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Speaker 1: of the most talked about and researched murder cases of

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Speaker 1: all time. The circumstances surrounding John Benay's death were mysterious.

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Speaker 1: John Beney lived with her parents and brother in Bolder, Colorado.

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Speaker 1: In the early morning hours of December twenty sixth her

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Speaker 1: parents called local police to say that she was missing.

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Speaker 1: They said someone had abducted her and left behind a

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Speaker 1: ransom note, But then later that morning, John Benney was

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Speaker 1: found strangled to death in the basement of their house.

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Speaker 1: Many thought that someone in the house was responsible and

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Speaker 1: that the note was just a fake to divert blame,

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Speaker 1: but others thought that because John Benet was so visible

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Speaker 1: as a child beauty pageant star, that some crazed fan

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Speaker 1: had broken in and killed her while they slept. However,

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Speaker 1: it was never solved. Her killer was never identified. There

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Speaker 1: was an attempt to investigate the family, but it never

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Speaker 1: went anywhere, and since then, true crime sleuths online have

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Speaker 1: famously dedicated countless hours to gathering additional information and exploring

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Speaker 1: multiple theories. And so, what actually happened to John Benney,

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Speaker 1: How was her life as a child beauty pageant star

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Speaker 1: a factor in her death? And why has the case

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Speaker 1: attracted so much attention in circles online and in pop culture.

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Speaker 3: I mean, to me, saying that this is a amous

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Speaker 3: case is really an understatement because this case right here

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Speaker 3: is probably this story was true crime before true crime

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Speaker 3: was a thing.

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Speaker 2: This case permeated the media and was all over TV

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Speaker 2: newsstands at the time. You absolutely could not avoid it.

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Speaker 2: It was a huge, horrific, tragic, historical event. So why

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Speaker 2: that is, I mean, that's the question that we're here

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Speaker 2: to talk about today, right Like, why was everyone so obsessed?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? And you know, I have to admit I was

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Speaker 3: a little bit skeptical of doing this case because, as

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Speaker 3: you just said, it's so overdone. It's such a huge

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Speaker 3: case and everybody knows about it. But for me, like

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Speaker 3: I really wanted to talk about it because when I

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Speaker 3: was sixteen and when I was twenty three, I was

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Speaker 3: in the pageant industry, so I was kind of obsessed,

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Speaker 3: you know when I heard it about this story of

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Speaker 3: this little girl, John Bennet, who's five years old, doing

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Speaker 3: pageant after pageant after pageant, and I know, for me,

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Speaker 3: it was hard, and I watched how mothers like were

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Speaker 3: obsessed with their children.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think Mom was like that with you

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Speaker 2: per se right.

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Speaker 3: No, Mom wasn't like that at all. But yeah, I guess,

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Speaker 3: you know, to put little girls in these beauty pageants

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Speaker 3: at that age, it just doesn't seem right to me.

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Speaker 2: I have to tell a little story to you, right,

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Speaker 2: because you're saying it. You know, it's kind of weird,

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Speaker 2: you know, for five year olds or six year olds

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Speaker 2: or just little, tiny, little people being in these pageants.

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Speaker 2: When I was pregnant with our daughter, I would tease

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Speaker 2: Vanna all the time because Toddler's and Tiara's was huge,

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Speaker 2: you know, the reality TV show and it had all

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Speaker 2: these girls like John Bennet that were on these reality shows.

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Speaker 2: So I used to be like, hey, babe, you know,

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Speaker 2: if we have a girl, we're gonna put her, you know,

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Speaker 2: in all these pageants. And She's like, oh, hell no,

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Speaker 2: we will get divorced.

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, she was nobody. No that is to the

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Speaker 3: to the L L L Yeah, nope.

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Speaker 2: And I mean I think I look at this case differently,

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Speaker 2: becoming a mom. Like our child is now ten years old,

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Speaker 2: but back when this happened, I was a teenager. But

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Speaker 2: it's still captivated everybody and the biggest issue, especially doing

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Speaker 2: research for this case, that I feel that there is

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Speaker 2: just an overwhelming amount of misinformation out there and crazy

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Speaker 2: theories and just horrible takes on what actually happened to

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Speaker 2: little John Benet, and most of that, bystandard speculation, is

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Speaker 2: incredibly hurtful and disrespectful to the family. And I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, with Yvet and I, you know, being connected

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Speaker 2: to one of the most infamous unsolved murders in America, like,

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Speaker 2: we know how that can hurt, Like, we know how

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Speaker 2: misinformation happens, and it can just affect people.

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Speaker 3: And I ramifications of that, Yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: I feel bad for the ramses, which we are going

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Speaker 2: to get more into. I think there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: well meaning people out there, but I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of times.

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Speaker 3: It does a lot of harm. I mean, this case

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Speaker 3: still isn't solved.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think part of that was, you know, around

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Speaker 1: this time, it was like late nineties and so Internet's

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Speaker 1: like just starting to be a thing, and I think

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Speaker 1: where we get a lot of misinformation these days is

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Speaker 1: through like unchecked sources on social media and the internet.

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Speaker 1: Back then, though, think about it, there wasn't really like

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Speaker 1: any checks and balances for like what was real, what

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Speaker 1: wasn't like it was kind of like the wild wild

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Speaker 1: West of the early internet days, you know, and so

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Speaker 1: like this was really like the first kind of test

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Speaker 1: case for like how people would like talk about something

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Speaker 1: like a true crime case in chat rooms, and so

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Speaker 1: we're completely unregulated and un checked for accuracy. So it's

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Speaker 1: not surprising to me that there is so much inaccuracy

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Speaker 1: and misinformation out there this case. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of those like theories started back then and they've just

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Speaker 1: kind of like solidified over the years and have made

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Speaker 1: their way into things like murder Pedia and all these

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Speaker 1: things online now. So yeah, that certainly doesn't excuse the

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Speaker 1: issues that causes. It's just interesting to think about why

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Speaker 1: that is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have to agree with you, But before we

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Speaker 3: get into it, I mean, I have to say that,

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Speaker 3: as we know, this is a super detailed case, right

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Speaker 3: compared to some of the other cases where we don't

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Speaker 3: have a whole lot of information, this one is I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's a ton of it out there. So what we're

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Speaker 3: going to do is we're going to have to split

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Speaker 3: this up into two parts. So this is going to

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Speaker 3: be part one and part two we're going to do

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Speaker 3: next week. So Trevor, let's get us started, and why

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Speaker 3: don't you tell us some of the background on the family.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So about the Ramses. John Baney's parents were John

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Speaker 1: and Patsy Ramsey. Patsy herself was in fact a pageant girl.

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Speaker 1: She was actually crowned Miss West Virginia in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: and even participated in the Miss America competition shortly thereafter.

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Speaker 1: John and Patsy met in Atlanta in nineteen seventy nine,

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Speaker 1: and then they got married the following year. In nineteen eighty,

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Speaker 1: John had his own software company, which is how he

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Speaker 1: made money, and that was pretty lucrative enough so that

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Speaker 1: Patsy got to just stay at home and mostly focused

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Speaker 1: on volunteer work. They had their first son together, named Burke,

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven, and then John Benet Ramsey came

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Speaker 1: around three years later on August sixth, nineteen ninety. Then

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one, the Ramses moved all the way

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Speaker 1: over to Boulder, Colorado, which is where most of the

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Speaker 1: story takes place. So in Boulder they bought this massive,

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Speaker 1: fifteen room kind of fake tutor style house which also

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Speaker 1: featured a basement with a wine cellar like pulled out

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Speaker 1: all the stops. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And I was also reading in a Pupil magazine article

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Speaker 3: that they were notorious for lavish living. You know, obviously

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Speaker 3: we can tell that they have a lot of money.

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Speaker 3: So they had you know, neighbors and all sorts of

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Speaker 3: people coming in and out of the house like nannies

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Speaker 3: and cleaners and gardeners all the time, right, because, like

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Speaker 3: you said earlier, it's a big house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was like a big production to

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Speaker 1: run the house.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right.

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Speaker 2: I mean so that's already maybe a security risk because

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Speaker 2: they have people coming in and out so often. I

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Speaker 2: mean all of those people have access to the home,

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Speaker 2: they have keys. But also around nineteen ninety five, that's

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Speaker 2: when Patsy began signing John Beney up for child beauty pageants,

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Speaker 2: and little John Benet won a bunch of them. She

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Speaker 2: won Little Miss Colorado, America's Royal Miss, and National Tiny

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Speaker 2: Miss Beauty. I mean that's a lot, Like that's a

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Speaker 2: fact to fact, it's a lot. So anyhow, to my understanding,

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Speaker 2: it was Patsy's obsession having her daughter compete in these pageants,

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Speaker 2: so she always was hiring photographers, you know, and different

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Speaker 2: type of people coming in and out of the house,

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Speaker 2: and it really I mean, if you look closely at it,

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Speaker 2: it totally seems like Patsy was living or trying to

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Speaker 2: live vicariously through John Bennet.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that's something you saw when you

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Speaker 1: were growing up in the pageant world, Like did you

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Speaker 1: see other mothers who were like kind of also vicariously

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Speaker 1: living through their daughters that sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean absolutely, because like I said, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was a teenager in one and then I was

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Speaker 3: twenty three in another, a young lady, and I would say,

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Speaker 3: and this is interesting, I saw more obsessed mothers in

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Speaker 3: the girls that were older. Oh really, Yeah, so I

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Speaker 3: saw it all. Yeah, and answer your question, Trevor, on

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Speaker 3: both ends of the spectrum, I saw mothers that were

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Speaker 3: you know, you could see them behind the stage, like

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Speaker 3: you know, doing the dance moves that you know they're

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Speaker 3: daughters were doing, whether it be a teenager or someone

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Speaker 3: who was twenty three. So yeah, it's a thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think at least for us, like growing

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Speaker 2: up in Havaii, like I think the little Caky's, like

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Speaker 2: the little kids weren't so much involved in pageants like

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Speaker 2: John Benet was. I don't know if that came a

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Speaker 2: little bit later, you know, and then you know later

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Speaker 2: in the nineties. But needless to say, Patsy had John

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Speaker 2: Benay in everything. So when you're competing in pageants, you're

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Speaker 2: not only like competing for.

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Speaker 3: You know, like little Miss Boulder or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Like there's so many photos and videos out there of

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Speaker 2: John Beney that are a little disturbing. I think that

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Speaker 2: would be the right shit.

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Speaker 3: I would say, very not a little. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's even a video that I know, like

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Speaker 2: now we would say it went viral, but at the

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Speaker 2: time that that wasn't a thing. But everyone saw that

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Speaker 2: video of John Beney dancing around kind of being flirtatious

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Speaker 2: and super provocative. Like she's six, she doesn't know that

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Speaker 2: like that someone's telling her to do that, you know, five,

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Speaker 2: I should say, five years old. Yeah, And of course

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Speaker 2: we've seen dozens of photos of her in heavy makeup.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she looked like a beautiful little drag queen,

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Speaker 2: right well, she.

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Speaker 3: Looked like if you think about she looked like her mom.

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Speaker 3: How Patsy wore a lot of makeup, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, So like that's what she was portraying onto

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Speaker 3: her daughter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I like to think that the sort of

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Speaker 1: thing has gone out of style a little bit, or

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Speaker 1: at least out of fashion in recent years, just because yes,

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Speaker 1: I don't see as much of this anymore. It feels

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Speaker 1: like the very nineties thing. But you know, hopefully maybe

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Speaker 1: cases like John Benet turned people off of this. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that, right. So, meanwhile, things were pretty tough

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Speaker 1: on the Ramsey parents in the early nineties. On January

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Speaker 1: eighth of nineteen ninety two, Elizabeth, who was one of

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Speaker 1: John's daughters from his first marriage, died in a car

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Speaker 1: accident in Chicago, and then his father also died that year.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety two, and then the following year, in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, Patsy was diagnosed with ovarian cancer, and

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Speaker 1: by that point it had actually spread to her lymph

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Speaker 1: notes so she underwent chemotherapy, which, as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: caused hair loss, nausea, months of illness, and fatigue. She

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Speaker 1: was able to beat it, however, and her cancer did

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Speaker 1: go into he remission in nineteen ninety five, So that

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Speaker 1: was good news and it seemed like things were looking

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Speaker 1: up for the Ramses. But then the following year, on

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Speaker 1: Christmas of nineteen ninety six, things went very, very wrong,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that right after we take a

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Speaker 1: quick break.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about when things started to go terribly wrong.

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Speaker 2: A couple of things happened leading up to Christmas of

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Speaker 2: that year. On December sixth, nineteen ninety six, John Benet

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Speaker 2: participated in the Lights of Christmas Parade in Boulder, where

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Speaker 2: she appeared on a little Miss Colorado Parade float and

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Speaker 2: John Bennie's grandmother was there and she actually would later

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Speaker 2: say that some creeper, some creepy man kept approaching the

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Speaker 2: float and it made her and everyone very uncomfortable. So

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Speaker 2: that's one thing, right, And you know, I've done my

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Speaker 2: share of parades, you know, all Pride parades, but you

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Speaker 2: definitely you can see the creepers out there. Then on

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Speaker 2: December seventeenth, John Benet won Little Miss Christmas at a

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Speaker 2: Denver child beauty pageant. So we just need to keep

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Speaker 2: those two little events in mind as we continue talking

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Speaker 2: about the details.

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Speaker 1: And so on December twenty third, the Ramsays hosted a

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Speaker 1: Christmas party at their home with about thirty guests in attendance.

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Speaker 1: One weird thing is that a nine to one one

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Speaker 1: call was placed from their home around ten pm that night,

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Speaker 1: but it is later dismissed as a drunk guest making

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Speaker 1: the call. We don't have any record of that, so

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Speaker 1: hard to verify. It's just one of the things you'll

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Speaker 1: hear about online, right. Also important, there is a neighbor

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Speaker 1: by the name of Bill McReynolds who plays Santa Claus

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Speaker 1: at said party. And remember that name because Bill McReynolds

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Speaker 1: would initially become a suspect in John Beney's murder. Once again,

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Speaker 1: just hang on to them.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, okay. So now it's Christmas Day and the

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Speaker 3: Ramses they go to a Christmas party hosted by their

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Speaker 3: family friend whose name is Fleet White, and they eventually

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Speaker 3: go home and John puts John, Benney and Burke to bed.

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Speaker 3: So at around ten pm they go in to check

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Speaker 3: on John Binney and they see that she's sound asleep,

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Speaker 3: and John claims that this is the last time that

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Speaker 3: he sees her alive, and then Patsy I guess she

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Speaker 3: goes to bed around ten thirty pm.

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Speaker 2: And then a couple hours later, just after midnight on

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Speaker 2: what's now December twenty sixth neighbor Scott Gibbons reported seeing

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Speaker 2: a light on in the Ramsey kitchen, and at two am,

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Speaker 2: neighbor Melody Stanton allegedly heard a scream from the Ramsays home.

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Speaker 2: So again these are those nuggets, right. So her husband

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Speaker 2: said he then heard the sound of metal on concrete

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Speaker 2: sometime after she heard that scream. But it's important to

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Speaker 2: note that years later, Melody actually backtracked on those statements

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Speaker 2: on her own statements, stating she actually heard the noise

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Speaker 2: two nights prior, if at all. Which again, this is

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Speaker 2: kind of the start of all that misinformation when you

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Speaker 2: have witnesses recounting what they say.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: So, then at five thirty am that morning, John supposedly

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Speaker 1: wakes up. The family was actually scheduled to fly to Charlevoi, Michigan,

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Speaker 1: for a vacation later that day, so John's getting ready,

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Speaker 1: and then Patsy supposedly wakes up very shortly after John,

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Speaker 1: at roughly five point forty five am. Patsy heads downstairs

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Speaker 1: to the kitchen and she sees a note on the

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Speaker 1: backstairs leading to the kitchen. She picks it up and

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Speaker 1: realizes it's a handwritten ransom note. And here's what part

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Speaker 1: of the note said quote, you will withdraw one hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: will be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining

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Speaker 1: eighteen thousand and twenty dollars bills end quote. So strangely enough,

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Speaker 1: that was the exact amount of John's Christmas bonus, that

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Speaker 1: one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. The note also said

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Speaker 1: not to call police or they would harm jumpin a

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Speaker 1: in some way.

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Speaker 3: This is the most bizarre ransom note like ever and

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Speaker 3: it was really long. It's really long, and you know

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Speaker 3: the way that they ended it signed Victory and the

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Speaker 3: initials SBTC. It doesn't make any sense. Like if I'm

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Speaker 3: thinking about this and they want one hundred dollars bills

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Speaker 3: and then they want eighteen thousand and twenty dollars, like

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Speaker 3: to me that that's weird. That's like someone who doesn't

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Speaker 3: have a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: To ask for hundreds and twenties. And it's also odd

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Speaker 2: that it's the exact number that John just got us

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Speaker 2: a you know, holiday bonus.

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Speaker 3: Right, So of course your mind goes to, like, okay, well,

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Speaker 3: it's obviously somebody that John worked with, right, or somebody

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Speaker 3: close to them that knew that he was getting this

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Speaker 3: exact amount. Also, Patsy reportedly screamed and ran up to

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Speaker 3: John Bennet's room, which was empty. She and John went

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Speaker 3: to check on their son Burke, and they claimed that

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Speaker 3: he was still asleep in bed. But at roughly five

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Speaker 3: fifty two am, Patsy called nine to one one, totally

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Speaker 3: ignoring the notes instructions not to call the police.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: Here's a clip from that recording of that call. Poe's Street.

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Speaker 2: What's going on?

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Speaker 4: Them were kidding up to me? What's going on? Okay

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Speaker 4: from west and don't.

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Speaker 1: How old is your home? How long ago was?

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Speaker 4: I don't know? I took help them bunk.

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Speaker 2: So between five point fifty two and five fifty nine am,

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Speaker 2: we know that Patsy calls family friends Fleet and Priscilla White,

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Speaker 2: and also John and Barbara Fernie. So at six am,

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Speaker 2: Boulder Police officers Karl Weitch and Rick French arrive at

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Speaker 2: the Ramsay home, and Detective Linda Aren't arrived shortly after them.

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Speaker 2: So Officer French was the first to search the home,

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Speaker 2: and he apparently paused by the very door that John

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Speaker 2: Bennet was later found behind, but he didn't end up

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Speaker 2: opening it.

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Speaker 1: So here's something about that from the police report. French

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Speaker 1: said that he didn't check that door to the basement

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Speaker 1: because he was looking for other doors that a supposed

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Speaker 1: kidnapper most likely would have used. He also noted that

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Speaker 1: the door latch was on the wrong side for any

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Speaker 1: door that might lead outside, so he just went ahead

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Speaker 1: and walked right past it.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: And then when Detective Linda Aren't arrived, she reportedly failed

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Speaker 2: to secure the crime scene. And this I think is

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Speaker 2: a huge, huge mistake I think that she made. And

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Speaker 2: at ten thirty am, John Ramsey went missing for at

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Speaker 2: least an hour, and he was supposedly leaving the house

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Speaker 2: to pick up mail, but that was later determined that

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Speaker 2: this could not have been true because the family's mail

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Speaker 2: was delivered through a slot in the front door. However,

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Speaker 2: as a devil's advocate, I will say it was the

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Speaker 2: day after Christmas. Maybe he was going to pick up

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Speaker 2: a package at the post office. I don't know, but

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Speaker 2: leads to say where where are you, dude?

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Speaker 1: It's a long time to disappear.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Yeah, okay, so get this

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Speaker 3: at one pm, Detective Aren't tells John Ramsey and his

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Speaker 3: friend Fleet White, who is not a police officer. Neither

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Speaker 3: of them are yeah, to do a top to bottom

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Speaker 3: search of the house like what. So then five minutes later,

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Speaker 3: John and Fleet they opened the door to the wine

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Speaker 3: cellar in the basement and they find John Benney's body.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So two weird things for me, obviously. One thing

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Speaker 1: is that it takes them so long to find the

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Speaker 1: body in a pretty like well traveled part of the

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Speaker 1: house I feel like, which is a wine cellar. The

401
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 1: other weird thing is of course that they like let

402
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: John Ramsey a freely roam around but be like find

403
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Speaker 1: the body. Yeah. It's almost like if you answered a

404
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: like domestic abuse call, like a ninety one one call,

405
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Speaker 1: and you show up and like the person's girlfriend is

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Speaker 1: either like hurt or killed, you don't just like let

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Speaker 1: that guy, like the boyfriend or whoever, like roam around

408
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Speaker 1: or maybe even go like help find the girlfriend that

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Speaker 1: you know he's possibly it's.

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Speaker 3: A crime scene. Yeah, this is not a game. It's

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Speaker 3: this is a real life crime scene.

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Speaker 1: So John and Fleet White they find John Bennet and

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Speaker 1: when they find her, her mouth is covered in duct

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Speaker 1: tape and her head is bludgeoned, and it looked like

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Speaker 1: she had also been strangled with a garat, which is

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Speaker 1: basically like a wire or a cord that you used

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Speaker 1: to choke people out. So John reportedly ripped off the

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Speaker 1: duct tape and he grabs her. He carries her upstairs

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Speaker 1: and he sets her down on the floor in front

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Speaker 1: of everybody, so it's not exactly clear why, but Detective

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Speaker 1: Aren't then picked up the body once again and moved

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Speaker 1: it to the living room and set it down near

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Speaker 1: the Christmas tree. And then Patsy, who's apparently too stunned

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Speaker 1: to hold herself up or even walk, kind of stumbles

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Speaker 1: over as friends like help her and carry her to

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Speaker 1: the body, and the police reports say that she then

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Speaker 1: throws herself also on top of John Bennet's body and

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Speaker 1: is sobbing over the body. So what we're seeing here

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Speaker 1: is a lot of potential contamination of evidense of John

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Speaker 1: Benny's body of the scene. I mean, things have been

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Speaker 1: moved around so much. The body's been touched and handled

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Speaker 1: by so many people already, and nobody's even examined it.

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Speaker 1: So that's a huge problem.

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Speaker 3: But that just goes to show that that particular detective,

435
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 3: like she was in charge, she was the first one

436
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 3: on the scene. Like you don't have you know, normal people,

437
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: civilian so to speak, go in and do your work.

438
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 3: That just doesn't make sense. I mean, I do understand

439
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 3: the emotion of Patsy throwing herself over John Bennet, because

440
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 3: that is you know, that's her child, still like they

441
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 3: should have left her, you know where she was, Yeah,

442
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 3: being a mom. It makes me sick to think about it.

443
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess the last thing I'll say about

444
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: that is, you know a lot of people talk about

445
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: why this case hasn't been solved, and there are a

446
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: lot of things you can attribute to it, but I

447
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: think this moment right here is probably like number one.

448
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: Why we don't have much is because so much of

449
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: what we could have gleaned from this crime scene, it's

450
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: just like immediately ruined.

451
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: Completely contaminated. Yeah. Well, a few more crazy things happen

452
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 2: that day that are that we have to point out

453
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: these these little nuggets. At one pm, John Ramsey called

454
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 2: his pilot about their personal plane and he allegedly asked

455
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: the pilot to prepare the plane for the family to

456
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: go to Atlanta, but law enforcement put the kabash on

457
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 2: that and instructed the family not to leave town for

458
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: good reason. And so foot you right, and so the

459
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 2: Ramseys he the request and they end up going to

460
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,479
Speaker 2: stay at a friend's house because their home is now

461
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: a crime scene.

462
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 3: Right, and they should not be leaving.

463
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of things that shouldn't have happened

464
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: that day, Yeah they did.

465
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 3: Okay. So it's two thirty and the authorities are interviewing

466
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 3: little Burke now and he's saying that he slept through

467
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 3: the night and he doesn't recall anything. He didn't hear anything,

468
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: you didn't see anything. At ten forty five, John Bennet's

469
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 3: body was removed from the ramseys home and Detective Arnt.

470
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 3: We go back to Detective Art, who let everybody walk

471
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 3: around the house. Is the last to leave the house.

472
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 4: Right.

473
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,479
Speaker 1: Of course, that's not really the end of this case,

474
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: but we do need to take another break, so we'll

475
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: talk about some of the things that came to light

476
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: after we come back.

477
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 2: Okay, So let's pick it back up on December twenty eighth.

478
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: So that day, the Ramseys go to the Boulder Police

479
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 2: station and Patsy, John, and Burke all give their hair,

480
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 2: blood and handwriting samples to the Bolder police. The next day,

481
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 2: the Ramses all fly to Atlanta, and on New Year's

482
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 2: Eve they hold John Benay's funeral in Marrietta, Georgia, with

483
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: over two hundred friends and family in attendance. John Benay

484
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,239
Speaker 2: is laid to rest next to her half sister and

485
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: John's daughter, Elizabeth, who died in a car wreck in

486
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two. On January first, nineteen ninety seven, John

487
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: and Patsy did an interview for CNN, which I vividly remember.

488
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: Here's a short clip for us to listen to.

489
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: When you return the Boulder, you will sit down with

490
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 3: the Bolder bullies. Absolutely absolutely. We want them to know

491
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 3: everything possible.

492
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: Everything to help them ever they want, whatever anyone wants,

493
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: we will collaborate. So throughout the interview, Patsy kept putting

494
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: forth the idea that a home invader was responsible for

495
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: the killing. She kept saying things like a killer is

496
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: on the loose, and she kept saying people in Boulder

497
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 2: should lock up their homes tight. I do remember her

498
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 2: repeating those two things several times in the interview.

499
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 4: Right.

500
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 1: So, then the next day, on January second, a team

501
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: of investigators from Boulder fly to Atlanta to again question

502
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: the Ramseys, and apparently understandably, the investigators were very shocked

503
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: to see that the Ramseys went on TV to talk

504
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: about this, because a couple days earlier, they had claimed

505
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: to be too upset, too emotional to even talk to

506
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: the police about it, Like they were completely locked up,

507
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: you know, when police tried to talk to them, And

508
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: here they are, you know, maybe a week later, fully

509
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: opening up about it to the whole country, the whole world.

510
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: I wonder if the attorney told them to do it

511
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: to save face or something.

512
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: Possibly, right, Well, maybe the other thing is, like, you know,

513
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: they didn't want to talk to police, maybe they were

514
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: like faking being upset. Like the fact that they would

515
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: not be that upset a week later, only a week later, Yeah,

516
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: signifies that maybe they weren't actually that upset, or that

517
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: they're not as upset as they were leading on to

518
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: police earlier. So I don't know. But then on January third,

519
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: the Ramseys returned to Bolder Color and that same day,

520
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: investigators revealed that the ransom note was written on stationary

521
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: from within their own house.

522
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 3: Oh shit, right, So I mean, so of course the

523
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 3: investigators are now wondering, like, Okay, did the parents actually

524
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 3: write the note? Right right? Did they? Or did they not?

525
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 3: That is the question. So two months later, on March seventh,

526
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 3: they have an expert handwriting analysis revealed that John could

527
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: not have written this particular ransom note, but Patsy has

528
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: not been ruled out, so we still don't know.

529
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well either way. The next day, on March eighth,

530
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: investigators traveled to the Ramsey's vacation home in Michigan, and

531
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: there they try and find some unrehearsed writing samples that

532
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: they can use for more handwriting analysis. So the idea

533
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: there being that you know, you can fake your handwriting

534
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: if you're like under pressure, Like if you know cops

535
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: are trying to like check your handwriting, maybe you could

536
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: like do it differently to throw them off, right right right? Yeah,

537
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: maybe they would find again unrehearsed samples at this other house.

538
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: So then on April nineteenth, the Boulder District Attorney officially

539
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: named John and Patsy Ramsey as the prime suspects in

540
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: John Benney's murder. So they are really honing in now

541
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: on the parents as having done this.

542
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: But apparently this does not phase the Ramses at all.

543
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: On April twenty seventh, they actually ran an ad in

544
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: the Daily Camera offering a reward of one hundred thousand

545
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: dollars for any information that can help with the investigation.

546
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: And on May second, the Ramsees finally address the accusations

547
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: against them in an interview with local news station News nine.

548
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: So we don't have the audio, but John said quote,

549
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: I did not kill my daughter. I will miss her

550
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: dearly for the rest of my life end quote, and

551
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: Patsy simply said, quote, I did not kill John Beney

552
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: end quote. The couple insisted the supposed killer would be found,

553
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 2: with Patsy saying quote, God knows who you are and

554
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: we will find you.

555
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 3: So on July tenth, the Ramses purchased a new home

556
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 3: in Atlanta, and they actually ended up buying a home

557
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: not far from where John Beney was buried, and that's

558
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: in Marietta, so obviously they wanted to be close to

559
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: their little girl, right, So.

560
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: Real quick, let's talk about the autopsy. On July fourteenth

561
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety eight, John Beney's official autopsy report was unsealed,

562
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: and so the autopsy confirmed a deep ligature around the

563
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: victim's neck and another around the right wrist. There was

564
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: also evidence that she had been bound and strangled, and

565
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: it also says that blood and abrasions were found in

566
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: the girl's vaginal area, which is important. Also, she was

567
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: struck in the head violently enough to cause bleeding, and

568
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: there was an eight and a half inch fracture to

569
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: her skull, so this suggests she died by asphyxiation technically,

570
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: but she was also bludgeoned and possibly sexually assaulted.

571
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: And I thought this detail was very weird because it

572
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 3: also turns out that that handle of that particular weapon

573
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: that was used to kill John Bennet, it was made

574
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 3: from one of the handles of Patsy's paint brushes, So

575
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 3: you know, this is the thing. Is somebody trying to

576
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: frame them or did they really do it right?

577
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, but all my insides are all wrapped

578
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: in knots. Like Trevor, I I'm thankful that you can

579
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: read through that without like pausing, because I just knowing

580
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 2: what was done to little John Beney just breaks my heart.

581
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: So months go by without any you know, developments, But

582
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: on January fifteenth, nineteen ninety eight, the Ramses announced that

583
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: they were not going to cooperate anymore. They refused to

584
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: give any further interviews to the police until they themselves

585
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: were allowed to review the evidence again. Our March twelfth,

586
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: which is now fifteen months since the murder of little

587
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: John Benet, a grand jury is called, and by this

588
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: point the police investigation has not garnered enough evidence to

589
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: successfully convict anyone.

590
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: Right, so the date of the grand jury is set

591
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: for September fifteenth of nineteen ninety eight. But before that happens,

592
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: something else comes to light. On August twentieth, police realized

593
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: that Burke, who is John Benet's brother, can actually be

594
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: heard in the background of Patsy's initial nine to one

595
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: one call. So originally the Ramses had said that Burke

596
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: was asleep that morning when everything went down when they

597
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: were searching for John Benet, and that he didn't even

598
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: wake up until after the police showed up. But police

599
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: were able to enhance the audio of that nine to

600
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: one one call, and then they were a to pick

601
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: up Burke's voice supposedly in the background of the call.

602
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: And so just one month later, the grand jury would

603
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 3: finally begin. And this is where evidence and more would

604
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 3: be revealed and explored. And this is where we're going

605
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 3: to pick up next week because, as we said, there

606
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: is so much to talk about in this case. We

607
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 3: want to talk about the evidence, the discrepancies in this

608
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 3: very very bizarre case, and then we're going to go

609
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 3: through some of the popular theories as to what happened.

610
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 3: And for this.

611
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: Episode, we're actually going to forego our usual EMUA, which

612
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: is our call for hope and healing, which we typically

613
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 2: like to do at the end of each episode, but

614
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: since this is a two parter, we are going to

615
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 2: leave you hanging, so you'll get the EMUA next week,

616
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 2: but we will leave you with this whole question what

617
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: actually happened to John Bina Ramsey. That will be our

618
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 2: focus point for next episode.

619
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 3: So until next time. That is our show for today.

620
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 3: We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion

621
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: and we're really curious to think what you all thought

622
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 3: about this case, So please find us on social media

623
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 3: or Facing Evil Pod, or email us at Facingevilpod at

624
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 3: tenderfoot dot tv.

625
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 2: Until next time.

626
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 3: Aloha.

627
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.

628
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Russia, pacquerero in a Vetchintil,

629
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf

630
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio with Producersver Young and Jesse Funk, Donald albright

631
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV,

632
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Claudia Dafrico. Original

633
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 1: music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on social

634
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: media or email us at facingevilpod at tenderfoot dot tv.

635
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the

636
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

637
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: favorite shows