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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace decorated NYPD officers behind bars

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Speaker 1: accused in a shocking murder for higher plot in a

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Speaker 1: criminal complaint, Authorities say thirty four year old Valerie Cincinneli

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Speaker 1: allegedly asked her boyfriend to hire a hitman with the

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Speaker 1: intention of murdering her estranged husband. But it doesn't end there. Cincinneli,

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Speaker 1: a twelve year veteran on the force, allegedly wanted to

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Speaker 1: have her boyfriend's daughter killed by a hitman as well.

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Speaker 1: Cincinnelli's father, it's now speaking out in defense of his daughter.

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Speaker 1: I guarantee you my daughter is innocent of this, saying

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Speaker 1: there's more to this story. This guy that she's involved

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Speaker 1: is a wacko psycho. This is the second time he's

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Speaker 1: had her arrested. Cincinneli's boyfriend allegedly told her he knew

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Speaker 1: a hitman who would do the job for seven thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars converted into gold coins. Authorities say the murders were

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Speaker 1: supposed to have happened last weekend, but as part of

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Speaker 1: an FBI ruse, detectives went to her house to say

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Speaker 1: her husband had been murdered. She was arrested after allegedly

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Speaker 1: contacting her boyfriend to talk about an alibi, not knowing

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Speaker 1: that he was cooperating with investigators the entire time. Her

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Speaker 1: neighbors in utter shock didn't see that one calling for

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Speaker 1: sell at ABC's GMA reporter Maggie Ruly, is it true

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Speaker 1: did a cop arrange to have her ex husband murdered

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Speaker 1: as part of a hit, and not only that, to

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Speaker 1: have her boyfriend's daughter rubbed out as well? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's he Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. You know, Cheryl McCollum, longtime colleague and friend,

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Speaker 1: director the Coal Case Research Institute. You know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know why I don't just stop saying this, But every

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Speaker 1: time I say I think I've seen it all, then

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Speaker 1: you know, I see something else, and then I say

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Speaker 1: it again, I think I've seen it all. You know,

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Speaker 1: we were in the trenches together, fighting crime, looking for fendance,

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Speaker 1: looking for evidence. Do you through the dirt for bullet

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Speaker 1: for shell casings, the works? You know you think Cheryl

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Speaker 1: an in a cop, a veteran cop, would know better. Yep?

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Speaker 1: Did you actually just say yep? That's your answer? Not

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Speaker 1: only does she want to kill her ex husband and

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Speaker 1: ladies hear me when I say there is a reason

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Speaker 1: he's an X. Okay, can't you just leave it at that?

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Speaker 1: He's your ex? Go be happy, run like young gazelle,

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Speaker 1: get away from him. Why getting mired down and having

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Speaker 1: a hit put on him? That's for our shrink, Karen

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Speaker 1: start but Cheryl, Okay, I'm expecting a little more than

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Speaker 1: yep from you. No, I would get into it if

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Speaker 1: oh now I get no, Now I get no. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's an improvement that overwhelming because you're talking

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Speaker 1: about such an iconic police department first of all, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the world looks to NYPD for training, and then you've

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Speaker 1: got not only a veteran, but a decorated veteran who

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Speaker 1: foiled a bank robbery on her own. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: is baffling to me that she thought this very elementary

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Speaker 1: plan was going to work. That you go to the

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Speaker 1: person that is your boyfriend, that you've had a volatile

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Speaker 1: relationship with, that you don't really trust because he's had

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Speaker 1: you arrested, but that's who you go to to find

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Speaker 1: a hit man. I mean, this wouldn't even be a

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Speaker 1: good made for TV movie. I don't know. I think

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Speaker 1: i'd like to see this a made for TV movie.

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Speaker 1: But first, can we just get through the trial and

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Speaker 1: again before a defense attorneys get all tuned up. Second verse,

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Speaker 1: same as the first. Yeah, she's innocent until proven guilty.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I should just start the program with that. Of course,

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Speaker 1: she's innocent until she's proven guilty. But what you said

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Speaker 1: about the NYPD, you're right because we have lived in

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Speaker 1: New York from many many years since I moved to

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Speaker 1: New York Stars show Johnny Cochrane, God rest his soul,

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Speaker 1: and the NYPD is great. They're tough when they need

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Speaker 1: to be when. Okay, I know this is just a

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Speaker 1: tiny snapshot, but whenever the twins walk up to an NYPD,

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Speaker 1: they couldn't be nicer. I've seen him be harsh, but

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Speaker 1: you know what, they needed to be harsh at that

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Speaker 1: moment when they did it. And yes, every police force

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Speaker 1: has bad apples and they make everybody else look bad.

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Speaker 1: But I think you're right. I think they are iconic overall.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl mcollum, Okay, let's get some facts before I get

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Speaker 1: Cheryl mccollumb all strung out on what we think happened

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Speaker 1: joining me right now. Crime online dot Com investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: John Lemley. Okay Lemley, start at the beginning. First of all,

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Speaker 1: why would you stay with the guy. It's already had

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Speaker 1: you arrested once I take the patent turner pat in

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Speaker 1: the street at turn a corner. Oh yeah, i'd away

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Speaker 1: gone from him, but she stayed. Now she's in the

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Speaker 1: pokey deservedly, John Limley, what do I need to ask? Well,

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Speaker 1: that has been an on again, off again, on again,

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Speaker 1: off again relationship for quite some time. I think you

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Speaker 1: should say it one more time. Just okay, good, I

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Speaker 1: got I got on again, off again, Jackie. Did you

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Speaker 1: get okay? Good? Go ahead, John Limley. You know, as

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Speaker 1: we're sort of setting the scene for this woman. This

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Speaker 1: decorated police officer. Cheryl McCullum mentioned a story actually that

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Speaker 1: went viral about this police officer. In twenty seventeen, one

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Speaker 1: of Cincinnelli's arrests really made headlines when she caught a

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Speaker 1: man who literally red handed. This time, a man went

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Speaker 1: to a Howard Beach bank and demanded cash. He left

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Speaker 1: with a bag filled with thirteen hundred dollars and I

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Speaker 1: mean yes the diepack, yes a dollar. I'm so happy.

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Speaker 1: I could not be happier when the bomb exploded, the

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Speaker 1: man drop the money ran for it. Officers Cincinnati happened

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Speaker 1: to be in the Howard Beach area at the time.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, that was Valerie Cincinnati allegedly ordered a

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Speaker 1: hit man. Yes, totally, Moley, I didn't realize that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: hold on Bobby Chicone joining me, FBI Special Agent Bobby Chicone.

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Speaker 1: I mean, bank robberies are hard, are hard to break,

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Speaker 1: okay because usually they're usually they're very well thought out.

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Speaker 1: You go into a bank, you got a plan, you

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Speaker 1: know it's armed, you know there's also it's just surveillance.

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Speaker 1: I've prosecuted a bank robbery before. Usually the FEDS take

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Speaker 1: it away because it's FDIC insured. But I managed to

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Speaker 1: have a bank robbery. Sheryl, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: remember that one. That's what the dyslexic bank robber. Don't

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Speaker 1: touch the al ram. This is the robie translation. Don't

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Speaker 1: touch the alarm. This is a robbery. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: we did a yeah, we did a handwriting comparison and

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Speaker 1: he refers all of his letters in the handwriting comparison

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Speaker 1: that helped Bobby chi Khan. This woman stopped a bank robber.

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Speaker 1: Die pack no die pack and now this that really

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, and she's that good and did something

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Speaker 1: this bad allegedly. Well, you know, first of all, echo

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Speaker 1: your sentiments about the NYPD. My brother and father were

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Speaker 1: both retired NYPD detectives. However, you know this particular officer

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Speaker 1: while she and then you had to go mess it

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Speaker 1: up and go with the fans encouragement of my father. Um,

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Speaker 1: but she, you know, this particular officer also had some

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Speaker 1: uh bad behavior in her police record. Also, she had

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Speaker 1: previously been suspended, um, and her gun taken away and

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Speaker 1: put on modified duty because wait, wait, wait, wait for

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Speaker 1: what for what what did she did get suspended? She

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Speaker 1: was she was a previous boyfriend of all things. Um

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Speaker 1: reported that she was spending time at his house while

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Speaker 1: she was on duty, and so, um, she's disciplinement it

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Speaker 1: is with this woman's boyfriend's you know. Wendy Patrick, California

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Speaker 1: prosecutor and author of Red Flags on Amazon, Bobby Chicoon,

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Speaker 1: hold on just a moment, John Limley, just hold that thought.

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Speaker 1: We women have got to get together on this. Cheryl McCullum,

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, Karen Start. Another boyfriend reports her for being

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Speaker 1: at his house while she's on duty. She probably just

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Speaker 1: swing by for a Haven't Cheese sandwich. What's wrong with that?

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Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick? Yeah, you know, Nancy, it's really a great

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Speaker 1: point you bring up. Are we to be only judged

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Speaker 1: by the company we keep? And if so, why are

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Speaker 1: we so bad at choosing our personal relationships when apparently

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Speaker 1: we're also good at our jobs professionally. This lady seems

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Speaker 1: to be one more example of that. You're right there.

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Speaker 1: There does seem to be a pattern to the problems

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Speaker 1: that she's having in her life. This will no doubt

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Speaker 1: make her sympathetic. I know everybody hates to say that,

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Speaker 1: because what she did was awful, but that'll be something

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Speaker 1: a defense attorney will probably pick up on. This is

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Speaker 1: something the father's already stating that it's the sun, it's

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Speaker 1: it's the it's the boyfriend, it's you know, it's somebody

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Speaker 1: else's fault that god are involved in this. But you

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Speaker 1: are right, it is it is curious that there is

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Speaker 1: this steady string of let's just say, problematic relationship. Well

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, you have a very good point there,

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Speaker 1: and a good defense attorney is gonna latch right on. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying the woman's innocent. Okay, because when you

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Speaker 1: get a hitman case, they've got you every which way

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Speaker 1: but loose. They've got John tape, they've got John video here,

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Speaker 1: they stung or with fake murder photos. But you know

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Speaker 1: there's a very good point. A defense attorney is gonna

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Speaker 1: latch on too. Take a listen to CBS Valerie Castro

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Speaker 1: outside Cincinnelli's dad's house. Listen this guy, because she's involved.

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Speaker 1: There's a wacko psycho. NYPD officer Valerie Cincinnelli, once praised

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Speaker 1: for her role in stopping a queen's bank robbery, now

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Speaker 1: arrested and accused of hatching a plot to hire a hitman.

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Speaker 1: Neighbors were stunned after FBI agents were seen carrying boxes

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Speaker 1: of evidence out of her home. I really I can't

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Speaker 1: believe this, going as far as I just maybe, Like

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Speaker 1: I said before, I don't want to believe it. Her

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Speaker 1: intended targets an ex husband and the fifteen year old

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Speaker 1: daughter of her current boyfriend. According to sources, the price

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Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars. Investigators say the thirty four year old

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Speaker 1: enlisted the help of her boyfriend, but he went to

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Speaker 1: police and became a confidential source. Court documents say in February,

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Speaker 1: Cincinnelli made a cash withdrawal of seven thousand dollars from

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Speaker 1: a TV Bank branch in Wanta to pay the hitman.

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Speaker 1: The confidential source told her the hitman didn't want to

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Speaker 1: off the child near a school, but Cincinnelli's response, according

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Speaker 1: to court documents, run her the explet of over how

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Speaker 1: about that crime stories with Nancy Grace. As for her

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Speaker 1: ex husband, she hoped his death could be made to

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Speaker 1: look like a robbery gone bad. Friday morning, FBI agents

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Speaker 1: posing as the hitman sent her text messages which included

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Speaker 1: a photograph of the defendant's estranged husband appearing dead in

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Speaker 1: his car, and the demand for an additional three thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars to kill the daughter. Cincinneli then allegedly told her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend she was deleting the text messages and pictures to

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Speaker 1: cover up her involvement in the crime. The allegations are

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Speaker 1: tough to grasp for the man who lives next door

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Speaker 1: and has met both Cincinneli's ex husband and her current boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: She's got two kids, man, and she's a police officer.

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Speaker 1: Will she really do something like that? I don't know

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Speaker 1: Cincinnelli's father says his daughter is the real victim of

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Speaker 1: the man who turned against her. There's no doubt that

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Speaker 1: he manipulated multiple conversations to come up with his statements.

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Speaker 1: He's very smart, but he's a pathological liar and there's

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Speaker 1: something wrong with his brain, investigators say. Cincinneli was also

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Speaker 1: reported discussing what her alibi would be, saying she would

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Speaker 1: be sure to be home at the time of the murders.

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Speaker 1: She's being held without bail. Prosecutors argued she is a

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Speaker 1: danger to the community, did a decorated NYPD cop. She

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Speaker 1: allegedly tried to hire a hitman to kill her ex husband,

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Speaker 1: and as if that's not enough, she is now accused

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Speaker 1: of trying to rub out to murder her boyfriend's daughter,

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Speaker 1: teen girl. Um bottom line saying, just runner the f over. Wow.

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Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coldcase Research Institute,

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Speaker 1: We've certainly seen our sharecases. But when I hear that

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Speaker 1: dad speaking, I can just hear my father on the

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Speaker 1: front steps of the house, tearing everybody a new rear end,

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Speaker 1: defending me, blaming everybody else, I mean, willing to throw

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Speaker 1: a punch. I can this just reminds me so much

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Speaker 1: of my dad. You know, I think that there is

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Speaker 1: a grain of truth in what he's saying. Look at it.

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Speaker 1: This boyfriend is the one who said he could find

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Speaker 1: a hitman. I'm not defending her because I guarantee you

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Speaker 1: they've got her on tape, They've got her on video.

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Speaker 1: They've got a picture of her pulling out the seven grand,

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Speaker 1: which is coincidentally the same amount of the hit man

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Speaker 1: wanted the fake hit man. I mean, yes, but I

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Speaker 1: think that boyfriend may have been stirring the pots. Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: well the biggest and her dad and mister mack is

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Speaker 1: he had every right your dad to defend you. You

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Speaker 1: didn't have a stream of exits in your background. They

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Speaker 1: all had arrested you, and that you had physically fought

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Speaker 1: with and you worked written up every five minutes. And

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Speaker 1: Louis Layton golle, Oh oh oh no, her background is flag.

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Speaker 1: Got the flag, got the flag. That's the flag. Now

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm given. I was cutting her some

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Speaker 1: slight because of the boyfriend, but you know what, it's

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Speaker 1: her record. Karen Stark Psychologists. You can find her at

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark dot com. Joining us today from Manhattan, Karen Stark.

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Speaker 1: It's her record. Look, you can blame the boyfriends all

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Speaker 1: you want to, you can blame the ex husband all

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Speaker 1: you want to. She's the one that took the money

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Speaker 1: out of the bank to pay the hitman. She's the

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Speaker 1: one that said runner the f over to the hitman.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure she's on tape. You know, they got to

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Speaker 1: get everything on tape. She was part of it. Part

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Speaker 1: about a psychopath. Man, go ahead, you're talking about a psychopath.

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Speaker 1: And when you're talking about somebody like that and murderer,

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Speaker 1: you cannot persuade another person to commit those kind of crimes.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's absolutely true that your dad would

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Speaker 1: not have been defending you in a situation like that,

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Speaker 1: but you wouldn't be in a situation like that. You're

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Speaker 1: talking about somebody who has no feelings. So it doesn't

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Speaker 1: take a lot to stir somebody up and get them

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Speaker 1: to decide, you know what my ex is in the way.

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Speaker 1: I think I'll just kill him. And while I'm at it,

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Speaker 1: why not kill your daughter? Because you know she's annoying

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Speaker 1: to me too, And that's people are not real. She

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Speaker 1: could care less about what she does you know, Andy Patrick,

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark is right. I guess I was projecting dealt

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Speaker 1: with so many women that have gotten tangled up with

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Speaker 1: bad guys and then they get dragged down the rabbit

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Speaker 1: hole with them. But it's this woman, it's her, It

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Speaker 1: is Vali Cincinnelli, because aside from each particular man, if

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Speaker 1: you look at her history, she's got the first incident

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Speaker 1: where she's caught on duty hanging out at some guy's house.

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Speaker 1: Then she's been arrested for another incident and with a boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: Now this incident, I mean that's three. That's three. I

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Speaker 1: mean if I showed up late to court one time,

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Speaker 1: I'd be in trouble as an assistant district attorney. I

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Speaker 1: mean trouble. So at what point do we quit cutting

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Speaker 1: her a brake and blaming it on a bad guy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't turn away from the fact that

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Speaker 1: when you don't know a horse, look at his track record.

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Speaker 1: She's got three incidents already. Wendy, that's right, So three strikes,

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Speaker 1: you're out now here we are again, and that you're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right. You know, prior bad acts is the legal definition.

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Speaker 1: It shouldn't really be called that because they're not bad acts.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they're criminals, sometimes they are Sometimes say, patterns make

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Speaker 1: the predator when we're talking about sex offenses. But in

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Speaker 1: a pattern like this, you just gotta wonder whether or

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Speaker 1: not at what point is it her own bad choices

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Speaker 1: that is to blame, rather than being under the influence

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Speaker 1: of a bad relationship. And one of the issues in

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Speaker 1: court is going to be how much of these prior

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Speaker 1: incidents are admissible in order to explain what she did.

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Speaker 1: Are they relevant enough? Are they similar enough? Maybe not,

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Speaker 1: But it also cuts against the really giving her a break,

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Speaker 1: which is something that the jury might otherwise be tempted

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Speaker 1: to do. Well, this is what we know. Cincinneli was

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Speaker 1: hired two thousand and seven. She was a domestic violence

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Speaker 1: officer assigned to THEE hundred and six precinct. She became

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Speaker 1: involved with a local man she met on the job.

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Speaker 1: She was stripped of her badging gun in twenty seventeen

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Speaker 1: after she ended the relationship and the guy rated her

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Speaker 1: out internal affairs, claiming she spent time at as Howard

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Speaker 1: Beach home while on duty. What a coinkie dink that

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Speaker 1: he reported her after she dumped him. So we're not

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Speaker 1: sure if that's the guy who was described as an

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Speaker 1: older quote sugar daddy who pay for her car and

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Speaker 1: other bills. Or is that the same one in this

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Speaker 1: alleged murder for hire plot. What we do know is

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Speaker 1: her husband, Isaiah Carvalho Junior, sued her for divorce in

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Speaker 1: Nassau County. They had a trial set for June. You know,

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Speaker 1: the divorced lawyer is happy the whole thing was foiled.

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Speaker 1: But I want to get back to the facts, John Linley,

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. I want you to

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Speaker 1: take a listen to CBS Valerie Castro as for her

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Speaker 1: ex husband, she hoped his death could be made to

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Speaker 1: look like a robbery gone bad. Friday morning, FBI agents

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Speaker 1: posing as the hitman sent her text messages which included

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Speaker 1: a photograph of the defendant's estranged husband appearing dead in

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Speaker 1: his car and the demand for an additional three thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars to kill the daughter. Cincinneli then allegedly told her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend she was deleting the text messages and pictures to

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Speaker 1: cover up her involvement in the crime. The allegations are

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Speaker 1: tough to grasp for the man who lives next door

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Speaker 1: and has met both Cincinneli's ex husband and her current boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: She's got two kids, man, and she's a police officer.

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Speaker 1: Will she really do something like that? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Cincinnelli's father says his daughter is the real victim of

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Speaker 1: the man who turned against her. There's no doubt that

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Speaker 1: he manipulated multiple conversations to come up with his statements.

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Speaker 1: He's very smart, but he's a pathological liar and there's

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Speaker 1: something wrong with his brain, investigators say. Cincinneli was also

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Speaker 1: recorded discussing what her alibi would be, saying she would

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Speaker 1: be sure to be home at the time of the murders.

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Speaker 1: She's being held without bail. Prosecutors argued she is a

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Speaker 1: danger to the community crisis with Nancy Grace. As for

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Speaker 1: her ex husband, she hoped his death could be made

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Speaker 1: to look like a robbery gone bad. Friday morning, FBI

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Speaker 1: agents posing as the hitman sent her text messages, which

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Speaker 1: included a photograph of the defendant's estranged husband appearing dead

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Speaker 1: in his car and the demand for an additional three

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars to kill the daughter. Cincinneli then allegedly told

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend she was deleting the text messages and pictures

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Speaker 1: to cover up her involvement in the crime. The allegations

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Speaker 1: are tough to grasp for the man who lives next

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Speaker 1: door and has met both Cincinneli's ex husband and her

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Speaker 1: current boyfriend. She's got two kids, man, and she's a

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Speaker 1: police officer. Will she really do something like that? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Cincinnelli's father says his daughter is the real

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Speaker 1: victim of the man who turned against her. There's no

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Speaker 1: doubt that he manipulated multiple conversations to come up with

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Speaker 1: his statements. He's very smart, but he's a pathological liar

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Speaker 1: and there's something wrong with his brain, investigators say. Cincinneli

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Speaker 1: was also reported discussing what her alibi would be, saying

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Speaker 1: she would be sure to be home at the time

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Speaker 1: of the murders. She's being held without bail. Prosecutors argued

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Speaker 1: she is a danger to the community. Whoa we are

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Speaker 1: talking about an NYPD officer's Jennifer Lopez look alike who

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Speaker 1: allegedly hires a hitman not only to murder her ex

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Speaker 1: her husband seeking a divorce, but also to murder her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend's teen daughter who doesn't like her. Straight out to

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Speaker 1: Sharyl mccollins, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Wow,

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Speaker 1: there's no way around that, not at all. And Nancy,

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Speaker 1: you know you and I used to discuss all the time.

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Speaker 1: The best condictor of future behavior is past behavior. Two

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Speaker 1: men have gotten restrainting orders against this woman. Even if

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Speaker 1: you listen to her dad. He talks about the current boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: He says it's alive. But he said the current boyfriend

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Speaker 1: said she pulled a gun only and threatened to kill him.

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Speaker 1: This isn't new behavior for her, this violence, you know,

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Speaker 1: plotting and scheming. I don't think if anything new. I

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Speaker 1: really don't. The jury, you know, they're gonna understand. Oh

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Speaker 1: you're a man of Nick Cousman, you won't him murdered. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's you know whatever. But you throw in that little girl,

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Speaker 1: that's a game changer for anybody. That is, as we say,

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Speaker 1: the fly in the ointment Bobby Chicon if BI special agent.

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Speaker 1: Have you noticed that when you're in the force, when

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Speaker 1: you're a prosecutor or a cop or a bell bondsman,

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Speaker 1: you're in the business for a long time, you're in

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Speaker 1: that Meylou, you get used to it. You get numbed

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Speaker 1: to it. Not numb, I guess numb isn't the right word.

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Speaker 1: You are conditioned to it. You're you're not shocked anymore.

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Speaker 1: You accept things more quickly than you did before you

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Speaker 1: were in the crime business. And I really think that

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Speaker 1: some cops go bad because it just doesn't seem that

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Speaker 1: bad to them anymore because they've been around it so much.

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Speaker 1: It's like this, the first time I ever had to curse.

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Speaker 1: I mean every foul word you can think of, the

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Speaker 1: C word, the P word, the F word, the every

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Speaker 1: word you can think of. I was reading a statement

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Speaker 1: to a jury. I was telling a jury what the

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Speaker 1: defendant had said, and I had to really work myself

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Speaker 1: up to say these words out loud in front of

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Speaker 1: a jury, and they were shocked, and I was shocked.

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Speaker 1: I could hardly say it. But then the next time

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Speaker 1: I said it, Bobby Chekong wasn't so hard. Then the

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Speaker 1: next time, and before you knew it, I was just

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Speaker 1: saying it all on my own. I wasn't quoting a

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Speaker 1: defendant anymore. I had to clean up my app when

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Speaker 1: I had the twins. Of course, no more of that.

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Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. You're around this, You're around

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Speaker 1: crime all the time, and somehow out to some people,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem so bad anymore. Well, I don't know, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: You know, I take my dad as an example. He

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Speaker 1: was a detective in the fifties and sixties at the

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Speaker 1: NYPD in the seventies, and yes, while he did develop

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Speaker 1: a hardened shell at work when he saw all these

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Speaker 1: things and he couldn't react to them as much, he

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Speaker 1: couldn't be emotional about it, but at the same time,

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Speaker 1: at home with his family, he became more caring and

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Speaker 1: more kind and more protective because of the things he

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Speaker 1: was seeing at work. And so, you know, he drew

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Speaker 1: that line, and most of us have drawn that line.

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Speaker 1: With the things we see at work, the things we

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Speaker 1: see in the street, we don't bring home. This officer

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Speaker 1: had no line. It seems like the things that she

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Speaker 1: was experienced at work, she thought we are fine to

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Speaker 1: bring home and actually do at home. So I think

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00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 1: that in this case the line she just didn't have

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Speaker 1: a line. And I think that many of us developed

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Speaker 1: that line where we've become more caring and more concerned,

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Speaker 1: more protective at home because of the things we see,

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Speaker 1: and the more things we see at work. Well, Wendy Patrick, California, prosecutor,

409
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Speaker 1: author of red flags. That's the way prosecution worked on me.

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Speaker 1: I became more vigilant, more protective, more alert, but I

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Speaker 1: wasn't as shocked. I was still hurt every time I

412
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Speaker 1: would see a violent crime victim, but I wasn't shocked anymore.

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Speaker 1: After you see it thousands and thousands, literally tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of times, you're not shocked anymore. And I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: if that's what happened to Valorie Cincinneli. It kind of

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Speaker 1: became okay in her mind. Yeah. You know, Nancy, you

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Speaker 1: may not be shocked, but you are still passionate about

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Speaker 1: what you do. I can hear it in your voice

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Speaker 1: every time you discuss a segment, So too with all

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Speaker 1: my fellow guests. The passion is still there, wanting justice

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Speaker 1: for victims. What we just heard was completely devoid of

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Speaker 1: any of that. The laughing and in discussing, well, how

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Speaker 1: is it going to happen, the date that it would

424
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 1: be convenient, Those kinds of things really evinces. I think

425
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: one of your other guests said, almost a callousness that

426
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: goes above and beyond simply be coming desensitized because you

427
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: work law enforcement for too many years that tape and

428
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: that voice, that is what's going to be most persuasive

429
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: to a jury. You just can't capture that through a

430
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: transcriptor through somebody else describing what she said. It is

431
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 1: that I suppose lack of passion and concern that I

432
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: think is going to be most telling when that's gets

433
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: in front of a trial. Take a listen to this. Cincinneli,

434
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: a twelve year NYPD department veteran, is currently charged with

435
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit murdered. A federal criminal complaint details how

436
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: she allegedly tried to persuade her boyfriend, he cs in

437
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: the complaint, to hire a hitman to kill not just

438
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: her estranged husband, but also have that hitman murder her

439
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: boyfriend's teenage daughter for seven thousand dollars cash. I'm not

440
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: going to comment on that because I really, you know,

441
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: it just seems to me that everything's just a little

442
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: bit exaggerated. Right now, I don't know what kind of

443
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: evidence they have. Cincinnelli's boyfriend, presumably opposed to having his

444
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: own daughter murdered, began cooperating with the FBI. He wore

445
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: a wire and recorded his conversations, in which prosecutors say

446
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: Cincinneli discussed how to carry out the murders and alibis.

447
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: When it was time for the cover up, Cincinneli was

448
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: arrested before anyone was hurt. I really am hawtbroken about it.

449
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: That little boy's gonna grow up, really messed up, really

450
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: messed up. That's from Pick reporter Jay Drew. We're hearing

451
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: the very latest about an NYPD New York Police Department

452
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: officer who allegedly hires a hit manter murder not only

453
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:40,959
Speaker 1: her ex husband, but her boyfriend's daughter as well. Crime

454
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. FBI agents took the thirty four

455
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: year old mother of two out of her Oceanside, Long

456
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: Island home in their custody Friday afternoon, and agents were

457
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: still at the home later in the evening. Neighbors we

458
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: spoke with who did not want to go on camera,

459
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: all separately described a nasty marriage breakup, arguments in the street,

460
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: and hinted at officers Cincinneli's temper. Her next door neighbor

461
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: was the only person willing to go on camera, and

462
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: he chose his words carefully. We all have tempers. I

463
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: understand that, but did her stand out? I wouldn't say

464
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: it stood out, No, she verbalized herself, of course, with

465
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: the kids, the stress and everything, But I don't know

466
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: if she was. I wouldn't take it as anything excessive.

467
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: That's from Picks reporter Jay Drew. We are hearing the

468
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: very latest about an NYPD New York Police Department officer

469
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: who allegedly hires a hit manter murder not only her

470
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: ex husband, but her boyfriend's daughter as well. Joining me

471
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: an all star panels Cheryl mccollin, Director Coalcase Research Institute,

472
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon,

473
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicon, FBI special agent, Karen Stark, psychologist Karen Stark

474
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: dot com, and John Linley Crime online dot Com investigative reporter.

475
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: Let me ask you something to you, John Limley, We're

476
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: learning that the boyfriend balked when it came to murdering

477
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: his own daughter, but it sounds like she, Valerie Cincinneli

478
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: was going forward with the plan anyway. Yeah, that was

479
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: she was. What's the phrase, hell bent on getting this

480
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: taken care of? You know, it's sort of ironic. Wait

481
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: a minute, what are you saying getting it taken care of?

482
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: That sounds like you're going to run down to the

483
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: mead first and get a shot. We're going to get

484
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: that taken care of. That's sort of the way I

485
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: know she may, but not you Limley, for Pete's sake.

486
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,479
Speaker 1: Oh oh heavens no, okay, Mary Poppins, John Limley. Getting

487
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: it taken care of. It is hardly a way to

488
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: describe having the girl effing run over outside of school.

489
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone, FBI special Agent. Why did she was she

490
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: so intent on having the murders occur outside? Well, and

491
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: this is one thing that the jury's going to get

492
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: chilled at is the callousness of her talk. She didn't want,

493
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: she didn't want her place to get messed up, the

494
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: callousness of you're about to murder to your ex husband,

495
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,239
Speaker 1: the father your child, and your only concerns is that

496
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: if it happens inside, it might be too messy. So

497
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: what we know is Officer Vali Cincinnelli was introduced to

498
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: Isaiah Carvalha Junior, her future husband turned murder target, by

499
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: Detective Patrick Roach, also of the ny PD. Now what's

500
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: the connection between them, John Linley, They were They were

501
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: simply friends, and of course she was a co worker

502
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: with the man. Now, It's interesting the way that Isaiah

503
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: Carvallo found out about this whole plot to have him

504
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: wiped out. You know, this has been going on since February,

505
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: this plotting to have him and the daughter murdered. He

506
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: woke up on Friday morning and found out just before

507
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: the rest of the world that you know, he thought

508
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: his life was about to turn her because he was

509
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: about to wrap up what had been a messy divorce

510
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: with Vincinelli or Cincinnelli. Instead, he was told that this

511
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: strange wife had been plotting to have him killed all winter.

512
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: There had been five months that had gone by since

513
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: Caravallo had filed for divorce from his wife after a

514
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: messy custody battle over that son. The matter seemed to

515
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: be almost settled, and it was, but not the way

516
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: mister Carvallo had hoped for. Well, this is what we know.

517
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: According to court document. Cincinnelli tells the boyfriend to tell

518
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: the hitman to quote run her his daughter the f

519
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: over to make the girl's death look like a hit

520
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: and run. So the boyfriend's strings Cincinnelli a long while

521
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: the FBI is gathering information, telling her he was in

522
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: contact with a hitman and that everything was moving forward.

523
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: So then the boyfriend tells Cincinnelli that the hitman was

524
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: stalking her ex husband Carvalho at his workplace on Long Island.

525
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: But then Cincinnelli didn't like that. She thought that area

526
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: was too up scale, and she wanted her husband to

527
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: be killed quote in the hood so it would not

528
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: look suspicious. All right, Cheryl McCollum, what about that. Here's

529
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: the greatest part of this whole thing, Nancy, Because every

530
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: time I hear a case like this, I have you

531
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: in my head when you used to be my prosecutor.

532
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: And here's what I think the prosecution is gonna do.

533
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: Every single time the FBI contacted her as the alleged

534
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: hit man and they said, hey, you got the money,

535
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: you know to call it back? Hey, make sure he

536
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: converted to coins callback. How do you want this done?

537
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: Oh when the ghetto? You want to run the f

538
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: over every single text message and every single phone call.

539
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: She could have stopped it, Nancy. And they're gonna show

540
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: that not only Hey, I know you would. I can

541
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: hear it. I can literally hear you in my head.

542
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I would do, you know, Because Cheryl

543
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: McCall him, I don't know if you recall, yes, sometimes

544
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: I would have up. I would have fifteen or twenty

545
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: four foot posters at once, and each poster would be

546
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: full of quote evidence proving guilt, every text, every word.

547
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: She uttered the ATM withdraw. Have you guys seen her

548
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: on video? I'm looking at her run home. Did she

549
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: not call at all? Not only does she not say

550
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: I have lost my mind. I've got my own children

551
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna love and raise and take care of,

552
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: she says Rutter, the fo man, I mean when you're

553
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: dealing with Okay, A lot of women on the jury

554
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: would say, yeah, I think the evidence is weak when

555
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: it comes to killing the ex husband. They might give

556
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: her a little free beyond that one. But on the

557
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: teen daughter, she's going down. On that, she is going down.

558
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: And Bobby chic on FBI specialize it. When the Feds

559
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: get you, they've got you every which way. And I

560
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: know that from being a FED we couldn't proceed on

561
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: a single case unless we had forty fifty boxes of evidence.

562
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: And I'm not kidding or exaggerating, Bobby, they've got her, no,

563
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: not at all. In fact that most of the time

564
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: I was always ready to proceed with a case long

565
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: before my assistant United States Attorney was ready to go.

566
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: They've always wanted and in this kind of case, you

567
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: can almost anticipate the defense. So what they did was

568
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: they went painstakingly at her because they knew what the

569
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: defense was going to be. They knew what they were

570
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: going to argue, and so they wanted to counter that beforehand.

571
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: They wanted to get the evidence to counter the anticipated defenses.

572
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: And really, in the case like this, the best evidence

573
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: you have is hearing from the defendant themselves, because they're

574
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: not going to take the stand. I think that the

575
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: best thing that's going to happen is the jury is

576
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: going to hear on her own words. The prosecutor at

577
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: the initial hearing said they have an overwhelming amount of evidence,

578
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: and I think they did that, you know, purposely, because

579
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: they know that these cases sometimes can be difficult. She's

580
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 1: a mother, you know, she's got young children her home,

581
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: and so they went out and got an abundance of

582
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: evidence against her. And the jury is going to hear

583
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: that and see her and hear her own words and

584
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: see her behavior firsthand, right, And I think that's going

585
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: to be damning in this case. You know what Karen Stark, psychologist,

586
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: joining me today from Manhattan. You can find her at

587
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: Karen Stark dot com. Karen, I can't put my finger

588
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: on this, and I bet you're going to have just

589
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: the right description. What is really getting made distraught about

590
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: this is the way she describes everything. Like she's worried

591
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: about her home getting messy if you kill them there.

592
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: She is worried about the schedule interfering with her schedule.

593
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 1: She's worried the two deaths close together might raise suspicions,

594
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: so she tells the boyfriend to have the hitman kill

595
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: his daughter over the weekend, then wait a week or

596
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: a month, and then kill her husband. I mean, she's

597
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: so casual about it. This is human life, the life

598
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: of a teen girl, a little girl. This little girl's

599
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: just four years older than Lucy and John David, and

600
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: she wants to have her run down in the street

601
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: and leave her dine on the side of the road.

602
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: And she's fine with that. She's more worried about getting

603
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: blood spatter on her sofa or on her carpet in

604
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: her place. That is just pushing me over the edge,

605
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: because Nancy, it's just what's so confusing about it, there's

606
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: a disconnect. Shouldn't be outside, no one should be inside,

607
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: And she's kind of flirtatious and behind it all, she

608
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: is plotting to murder two people, one a little bit

609
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 1: older than your own children and an ex husband. How

610
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: do you put those two things together? We wait as

611
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,