WEBVTT - Why are slurs making a comeback? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.240 Hey, folks, this is many here. I'm genuinely ecstatic that 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.200 you're tuning in for episode three of No Such Thing. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:10.320 Quick content warning, though this episode features language that may 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.760 be uncomfortable to hear. You probably guess this by the 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:16.840 literal title of the episode, but in many cases this 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.439 language is not censored. So if you don't want to 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:22.520 hear any of that, now's your chance to back out. Otherwise, 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:27.080 enjoy the episode. I'm Manny, I'm Noah, and this is 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.560 No such Thing a show where we settle our dumb 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.919 arguments and yours by actually doing the research. Today's episode 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.280 is about the return of slurs. We'll talk about why 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:39.480 we think this is happening, we'll hear from some people 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.959 who are using slurs again, and we'll also interview a 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:50.159 very special guest. There's no such thing, no such thing. 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:59.280 Touch thank touch touch than. 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.600 All right, So I'm going to start here with kind 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:08.080 of an acknowledgment, an acknowledgment that a lot of us 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:12.319 were using slurs when we were in middle school, elementary school. 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.040 High school, high school. 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.160 Okay, I'm not going to go that far into college. 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:22.319 I remember, specifically in middle school, you know, I was 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.480 in the Halo two lobbies like that. That was not 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:29.320 a safe space, so to speak. You were getting racial slurs, 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.320 homophobic slurs, the R word just flying left and right, 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.959 every other word, especially when you would lose, which I 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:42.319 never did in middle school and in high school, in 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.080 my experience, you started to see the usage of these 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.680 words take a step back. And I remember this is 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.840 around the time when like people in your circles would 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.600 start coming out. And I remember one of my best 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:59.200 friends came out to us and he was someone who 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:04.640 was using the F word. But it made sense, right 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:05.640 because he was like. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:07.400 From but remember to the community. 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:11.080 Yes, yeah, but I remember him taking me to the 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.600 side once and being like upset that I was using it. 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.440 Back then, you're using the F word. You're not talking 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.679 about gay people, and so this is what I'm trying 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.679 to tell my friend at the time, and he's saying, actually, 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.920 I know you're not talking about gay people, but the 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.520 word originated as a slur of gay people, and you 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.399 mean to describe someone who's stupid or ignorant. But you're 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.880 saying this word that was meant to make me feel bad. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.239 And I was like, all right, that's fair. I'm not 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.960 gonna argue with you. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I'm all ears. 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:47.359 I won't say I quit cold Turkey after that conversation, yes, 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:51.040 who can't. But that was a time when I was like, Okay, 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.480 I'm starting to realize some of the nuances of these words. 0:02:54.680 --> 0:03:00.200 And then yeah, progressively, since then, my usage died down 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:06.519 almost completely. Now, fast forward what twenty years, Jesus Christ world, 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.519 Fast forward twenty years. I'm in the Lower East Side. 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:13.560 I'm watching the Lakers play against the Celtics. This is 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.960 going somewhere, I promised, and I'm at this bar. There 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.720 are some Celtics fans in there that are going fucking crazy. 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.040 I was like, actually, like. 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.200 Whoa For context, for people who don't watch sports, there's 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:30.880 always been I guess reports and players accusing Celtics fans 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:32.280 of using slurs. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.280 Oh yeah, more specifically the N word. 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:36.320 Yeah, in Boston sports. 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:37.680 Yes, Boston sports. Yeah, more widely. 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.960 Yeah, So they're in there. Lebron is you know. I 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.400 love Lebron, He's my king, my idol. But he was 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.600 he was maybe complaining a little bit too much about 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:52.240 a particular foul, and these guys were just letting it 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:57.040 the I was blown away by what they were saying, 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.560 and I was like, holy shit, we're in Manhattan. F word, 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.600 our word, your mother is blah blah blah. And I'm like, whoa, 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:09.880 now it's turn. I couldn't understand the power of these 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.440 words until they use them against Lebron James. No, but 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.720 I was like, Okay, are these words back or are 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:21.000 these guys just Celtics fans? Like maybe these guys never stopped. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.800 it's hard to tell. In that moment. When I really 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.840 realized that these words were back is when I was 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.920 at a dinner and everyone at the dinner is uh, 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.719 not just a liberal, but also more left than that, 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.560 to be fair, like, so many of them are queer, 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:38.720 so like if you're if you're queer. 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.960 Using that degree or an attempt to maybe. 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.960 Yeah, But I was still surprised at the high usage 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.919 rate within that conversation, and that's when I was like, Okay, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.560 something's going on here. So that's kind of been my experience. 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.719 I'm curious what your guys's experience with hearing these slurs are. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:58.880 So yeah, obviously we have a lot of the same friends, 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.360 so I've noticed it in our friend group as well. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.760 But I'm seeing on Twitter like people are saying, like, hey, 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.120 if y'all noticed a lot more people are using the 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.920 R word. And then that new FX show the English 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.000 teacher was in the trailer. 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.880 The kids this year, they're not into being woken all 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:17.440 the way around. 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:18.760 They're saying the R word again. 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.680 So it's reached, you know, FX writer level of popularity. 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.000 Now it's not just the US thing. 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.960 But did you guys like use slurs growing up? To 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:28.640 be honest, and this is not me trying to. 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:36.200 I really like never used I'll say the only time 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.320 I've ever used our word is like if I'm by 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:44.080 myself gaming and it's it's it's at myself, like wow, 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:46.400 I'm frustrated, and I'll say it. 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.680 But like and I'm not gaming on I'm not on. 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:53.760 That live you're talking. That's darker, to be honest, it's 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:54.760 much darker. 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:56.160 That's all I'm saying. I'm not I'm not doing this 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.640 to pay myself in a nicer life. But when you 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.159 were growing up, that was just never kind of part 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.080 of the Like had friends who would use use them, 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.039 and but it was just like I just never. 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.680 Did our word for sure used to use it, I 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:15.120 would say, not as often, yeah, but I would say, yeah, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.159 high school, early college. 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:19.760 I was sort of like, all right, you gotta stop 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:20.520 saying that. 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.400 And then I feel like everyone had in your circles 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.640 people who would I don't even say, like police these words, 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.000 but like would call you out for using them m hm. 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.760 And I think, you know, you get tired of people 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.600 calling you out, you eventually stop using it. 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.400 Yeah, it's not like you're going to die on the celfa. Yeah, 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.919 for what reason exactly? You know, all right, we've established 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.480 the three of us are woke kings. We don't use 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.400 the words anymore. But how do you ever like read 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.400 a tweet or something that has these words in it 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.760 and find it funny? Like oh, yeah, yeah, okay, we're 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.440 on the same page about that. I'm asking because I 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.080 was maybe two years ago. I crashed through the TV 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.320 show Veep. Oh yeah, incredible show. I remember a specific 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.520 line that I found hilarious, Like I was laughing for 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.440 like I had to pause the show to laugh, And 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.440 I remember thinking like, oh, I don't want anyone to 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:18.560 know that I laughed at this. 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:20.760 What was the line, Governor, It's so nice for me 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:22.280 to come with us, to come for Jonah jonan Oh 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.520 Ryan has as much chance of becoming president as a 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:26.680 stack of retarded raccoons in a trench coat. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:34.160 And it paints such a vivid picture that line. 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.320 With all of these words, right, like they're able to 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.720 communicate something so quickly, Like what other words could you 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.920 put in that place to get that joke across? 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:46.480 Yeah, it's the way punchiness of it. Yes, well, I'm 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.120 only bringing this up for validation. 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:50.760 Yes, I just want you to tell me that I'm allowed. 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:59.600 To laugh at this, Okay, So why is the question? 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:01.920 Why do we think this is happening? Why are people 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:03.960 using slurs so freely? Again? 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:05.880 So, I mean I think it's just kind of a 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.720 blacklash to a kind of hyper policing of language I've 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:10.480 seen in the past, say, fifteen years. I mean it 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:12.520 goes back further. I mean, like in the nineties you 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.520 would hear it as just political correctness. You know, there's 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:17.440 a line of acceptability of what's okay to say or 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.000 not to say. We heard it recently about the election 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.280 with being told to use the word Latin X or 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.800 you know, people talk about homelessness or unhoused people and 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:27.160 it's like. 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.280 Yeah, people experiencing homelessness. 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.960 Yeah, and it's these things that are ultimately harmless, but 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.480 they also don't necessarily do that much to help any 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.240 maybe disenfranchised groups. If you want to be called this, 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.680 I'll call you that. If you don't, I'll try not to. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.960 I guess there's a pendulum that swings, and you know, 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:45.679 it'll go back and forth, and I'm sure we'll see 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:46.920 it change again in the future. 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.200 That to me would mean then that there's kind of 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.400 like an overlap. There's like people on the left and 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.400 people on the right, and there's a middle where it's 0:08:55.480 --> 0:09:01.440 like anti political correctness like groups. Because I'm I'm mostly 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.280 interested in why people on the left are bringing these 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.800 words back. I feel like people on the right maybe 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.720 never stop saying them, or the usage rate dropped, but 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.240 not all the way. But like people on the left, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.160 I feel like it are. That's where I'm like, this 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:17.320 is interesting. 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:17.480 All right. 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:19.920 So we wanted to hear from some people who have 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.720 been using these words again after not using them for 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.480 a really long time, and so we did this call 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:29.800 out and we got a few responses. I do want 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.120 to note like how hard it was to get people 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:37.080 to agree to do this, Like everyone had a million 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:42.079 questions whether they would be anonymous. Who are you telling 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:42.559 about this? 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.920 Which is very interesting, right, because I think it speaks 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.360 to like to know as earlier point where we are 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.360 with this, that people are fine using it in their 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.559 trusted groups, but they don't want to be outed as 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:56.120 using it to the public. 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:01.000 Yes, that was the prevailing sentiment from everyone who responded, 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:03.559 except one person who was like, if I'm going to 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:05.920 use these words, you should put my name on this, 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:07.480 and I was like, I'm not gonna do that. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:09.280 Maybe a protection. 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:11.160 Protection You're. 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:13.200 That's interesting. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.360 So we'll play a few sound bites of people who 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.320 sent in some voice notes to us about why they 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.480 use these words. Again, but one of the responses I 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.560 got is in text form, and I'll just read that 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:30.400 for you guys. I'm gay and a woman. I just 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.360 want to be clear this is I'm reading. I'm reading 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:39.800 someone's response. Let's just the Yeah, I'm gay and a woman. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.160 So I think it's funny if I call someone a 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.000 pussy as a slur, or if I say the word faggot. 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.600 A few years ago, some of my best friends started 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.480 to throw around the R word. At first, I was 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.040 really shocked. I hadn't heard that word in years, I 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.800 couldn't believe my leftist progressive friends would say that. After 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.560 a few more times the shot or off, it started 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.640 to feel normal. I don't freely or openly say it, 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.800 and if I do slip up, it's definitely with shame, 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.160 and only around people who have said it first. Some 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:17.000 groups of people simply have normalized it, and others continue 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.320 to think it's extremely offensive, So it's definitely a gamble. 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.640 In another thing, I think it's become fully divorced from 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.760 the concept of actual disability, kind of like how on 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.280 South Park they were all saying the word fagot to 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.640 talk about motorcycle gangs and fully forgot it refers to 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:33.640 gay people. How is it? 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.319 Do you boys think referring to gay people as fags 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.679 and today's world is acceptable. 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:41.080 Because we're not referring to gay people. You can be 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:42.840 gay and not be a fag. Yeah, a lot of 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:43.560 fags aren't gay. 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.160 I happen to be gay. Boys. 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:46.320 Do you think I'm a fag? 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:48.320 Do you write a big, loud Harley and go up 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:50.199 and down the streets ruining everyone's nice time? 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.040 No, then you're not a fag. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.280 I'm a thirty year old white male. But to hear 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.000 people like project their own moral comp this on you know, 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.560 so your life is like is like really reductive. It's 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.280 more reductive than, in my opinion, like saying the thing 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.560 you know, because it's like, how the fuck do you know? 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.520 It has been either a white guy telling me that 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.319 it's like you know, something you've never been through. It's 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:17.679 like you neither has have been through it. 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.240 You know, I am a twenty six year old woman 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.640 through our private contexts where I'm with my friends and 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.120 we know each other's values, and I wouldn't be friends 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.840 with them if I believed like they were bad people 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.440 who dislike people with disabilities. That word in a way 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.160 that is very clearly ironic and not in a way 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.880 that's meant to disparage disable people. It can jopingly come 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.439 up in like those private spaces, but overall, my feeling 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.520 is that I just want a word that carries the 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.599 strength and stupidity and malice of the R word is 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.959 an ablest and that's something that I hope is introduced 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.760 into the vernacula at some point. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.720 For three guys who are looking for an answer to 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.440 why people are using these words. Again, we are in 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.920 luck because after the break, we're going to be talking 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:16.559 to someone who did a story about this. All right, 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.040 we're back. This is Manny. 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.160 I'm Noah Devin, and we have a. 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.880 Very special guest. Mia DeGraf, is a deputy executive editor 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.360 at Business Insider, and she was actually the editor of 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.720 a piece about this very topic, the return of slurs. 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.000 And she also happens to be my girlfriend. So there's 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:39.440 some light nepotism going on here, but you're actually uniquely 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:40.680 qualified to talk about this. 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:41.959 Yes, yes I am. 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:48.800 Recently, Mia, you put together a story about this very 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.760 thing that we're talking about, the return of slurs. Tell 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.400 us how this story came about. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.160 Yeah, so I'm on a team that it's you know, 0:13:56.160 --> 0:14:00.000 I'm a health editor, but our work spans into psychology 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.120 as well. So a psychology reporter who I was speaking 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.520 with and she was like, I feel like everyone's saying 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:10.280 slurs and it's liberal, lefty people. And I was like, Oh, 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.160 this is so true, and it's a vibe shift that 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.000 I think everyone has seen you hear it around. It's 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.360 like on Twitter, like random people saying it, but I 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.240 haven't seen like a definitive article that really charts like 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.520 why this is happening. When this happened, can you measure 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.720 it in any way? So I was like, great, let's 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.280 get into it. It took us so long to try 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:34.240 and really piece it together because it's so kind of amorphous, 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.520 like it's just this thing that it's definitely happening and 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.240 you feel it and you see it, but it's hard 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.160 to really pinpoint where am why now. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.040 It's not like a data point that's like, actually, you 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:46.120 know the R word is up. 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.320 Right well, because all of you know, I've been in 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.880 a science journalist for like ten years and everything we 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.160 do is like you know, using studies and data and 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:57.720 all that kind of thing, and this is the kind 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.840 of thing you just can't measure because it a moves 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:05.680 so quickly and be it's like really specifically developed online 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.240 and it's people who you can't really identify who they 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.479 are or like they because this is what Julia Pukachevski, 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.040 the psychology reporter who came to me with this idea, 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.520 and our first port of call was just like calling 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.160 out to people to be like do you use this? 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.200 What do you think about it? And I had so 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.360 many responses. I posted an Instagram story and I had 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.760 hundreds and I really don't have that many Instagram followers, 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.400 so this is a high proportion and hundreds of people 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:36.960 coming in being like yeah, yeah, I use these sirs 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.560 and I find it really funny, Like most people who 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:41.520 responded to my stories, and these are people who I 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:42.680 would not have expected. 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.360 And I were like, what, like admitting to using it? 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.880 Yeah, like what words do you use? And they're like, oh, yeah, 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.480 I say things are gay or I use insert random 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.680 suzz and I'm like why and they're like, because it's funny. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.400 And then to each one, I'd be like, oh, can 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.000 we talk about it like officially and they'd be like. 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.120 No, that's so similarity to the issue we ran into, right, yeah. 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:03.960 This is like and I was like, okay, fine, whatever, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:08.040 And then Julia tweeted about it. Her tweet got screenshotted 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.600 and meaned and just like she got completely dunked on Twitter, 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:14.720 people being like oh you cop and like what's da 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.440 da da da? But then and so then I was like, Okay, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:18.960 well this is maybe slightly backfiring. 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.680 I just sent her out into the. 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:25.840 But then it was so crazy because she was then 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:27.560 showing me like a lot of the people who were 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.120 donkey on her on Twitter, were then privately dming her 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:31.400 being like, I have actually lots of. 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.080 Thoughts about Oh that's exactly, That's exactly these types of 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:34.960 people I'm talking about. 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.440 So it was interesting, but it was definitely like something 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.040 that really identified like that something was there because it 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.120 was something that we'd seen online. I think the real 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.160 step up for us that made this like a big 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.880 story is that like movies and stuff there and it's 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.600 like becoming very mainstream, especially when you see like all 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.240 of the Democrats like really trying to get in on 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.720 memes and stuff, and then everyone's trying to use this 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.760 very like taboo transgressive language. And then Deadpool had a 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:12.200 joke about the R word and everyone's like posting about it. 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:14.880 I was like, Okay, Ryan Reynolds is making this joke. 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.280 This is like such an old thing now, so like 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:18.560 we must be able to chart this. 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.200 I can. I cannot bring myself to watch that movie. 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.240 What is the joke? And you I was not expecting 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.159 to see you here. I thought you were you know, retired, 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.760 regarded retired. Oh he pronounced. 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:35.480 It pronounced retired to make it sound like the word. 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.120 And then the guy's like what and then it's like this. 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:42.080 Is like when we were in elementary school. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:42.920 And this is the kind of joke that you would 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:45.080 get in like a really bad like Seth Rogan movie 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:46.000 two thousand and three. 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:51.119 Yees, don't disrespect Seth like that. Now this is like 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.240 a Royan Reynolds movie from the two thousand Reynolds. 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.520 Still it's like it's swung right back. Oh my god, 0:17:58.520 --> 0:17:59.040 I could do. 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:05.040 This again, blacking. I'm curious, like what were your findings, 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.360 Like you set out to dive into why this is happening? 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:09.880 Is there a real answer? 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.720 We went through one angle, which is like what is 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.320 the history of these words? Like when were they starting 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.520 to be used? So the R word didn't come about 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.840 as like a slur until like the sixties and seventies, 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.880 and didn't really step up until like, you know, the nineties. 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:31.680 That's where I really got going. But then you can 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:37.000 see ways in which things started to get policed, like 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.760 like very specific ways, Like there was a black Eyed Peas. 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.440 Song, Oh my, let's get it started. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.040 I remembered it as they had changed it because it 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:52.680 was offensive. 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:55.679 True, Oh that's how I remember it. 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:57.520 I just assume that's what it was. 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.719 Yeah, I know they changed it. Because it was going 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.720 to be in the two thousand and four NBA Finals 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:06.359 or something like, they were going to be playing that 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.840 song and then I guess the networks but like, we 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.760 can't have that word. So then they did a clean 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:26.640 versions and then it made really big news that they'd 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:28.960 made a clean version, And it was kind of happening 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.080 at this time where there was beginning to be these 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.240 campaigns about whether or not you can use these words, 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:37.000 but that actually really turbo charged a conversation about it. 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.480 I'm curious, like how much of this shift, if you know, like, 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.159 is it coming from bottom up, from like the people, 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:43.960 or is it like kind of mandated by Like it 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.399 makes sense that the NBA and all these corporate people 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.040 would want to be very safe, But then does a 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.040 shift like this where now it's acceptable for the Deadpool 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:53.920 movie to have this. 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:57.120 Like is that influencing us or are we influencing them? 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:57.520 Do you know? 0:19:57.680 --> 0:19:59.720 Like, I think one of the most interesting things about 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.240 this is that there are so many more bloodlines, and 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:04.679 I think that's actually part of the reason why people 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.680 really wanted to harness this, like speaking of the bottom 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.560 of angle. It's like, you know, left wing people being 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.080 like I don't want you to make any assumptions about 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:18.200 who I am just because I look queer or am 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.879 left wing. All these ideas of the left being like 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:25.080 very pedantic and very kind of like gatekeeping what is right, 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.520 being like, no, I'm actually like I contain multitudes. I 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.440 guess you know, It's like I could be all different 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.160 kinds of things. So there is that side of it. 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.680 But then you know, culture is a circle, so there 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.440 are like other things like with the NBA finals kind 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.879 of shifting what that song was and that creating a 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:49.240 whole conversation. Like a few years later, there was a 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:54.360 legal shift where Obama signed Rosa's Law, which basically meant 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:57.320