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Speaker 4: Hey Daniel, how do you feel about skepticism?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm a little skeptical of it.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, do you think it's always a good

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Speaker 4: thing to be asking questions?

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Speaker 1: I'm always in favor of questions. I mean, that's definitely

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Speaker 1: how we got where we are, and that's how we

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Speaker 1: learned so much about this incredible universe. But you know

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Speaker 1: there are caveats.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so I got a good one for you. Do

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Speaker 4: you believe the Earth is round?

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Speaker 1: Actually know the Earth is not round?

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Speaker 4: What are you one of those flat earthers?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 1: No, no, those people are crazy.

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Speaker 4: There are a lot of them out there.

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Speaker 1: I know there are flat earthers all around the globe.

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Speaker 4: All around the globe, not on top or below the

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Speaker 4: globe exactly. Well, what's your take from a physicist? The

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Speaker 4: official answer is Earth round or flat?

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Speaker 1: It's a false choice. The answer is neither. Stay tuned

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Speaker 1: and find out.

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Speaker 5: Hi.

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Speaker 4: I'm Jorge, I'm a cartoonist and the creator of PhD Comics.

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Speaker 6: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel Whitson. I'm a particle physicist by day and

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Speaker 1: a podcaster by any other time.

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Speaker 4: And welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe,

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Speaker 4: a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we try to explain crazy things about the universe,

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Speaker 1: sometimes things really far away, sometimes things in our neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: sometimes things right under our feet.

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Speaker 4: Sorry. We try to tackle big questions, small questions, questions

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Speaker 4: you think you know the answer to, but maybe the

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Speaker 4: universe has a way to surprise you.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Round questions, flat questions, square questions, squiggly questions,

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Speaker 1: and squishy questions. We love all the questions. Questions are

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Speaker 1: our business.

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Speaker 4: I like that as our company motto. That's right, do

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Speaker 4: we have a company, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: We should make one? Yes, we're in good company.

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Speaker 5: All right.

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Speaker 4: Well, so today we're a question that obviously humans have

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Speaker 4: been had been struggling with for a long time, and

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Speaker 4: I think for pretty much the last couple of centuries

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Speaker 4: people think we know the answer to right.

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Speaker 1: That's right. This is the kind of question people ask,

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Speaker 1: and it's a kind of question it can be hard

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Speaker 1: to answer immediately just by looking at what's around you.

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Speaker 1: But it's a fun question because it's the kind of

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Speaker 1: question that you know, sort of the beginning of cosmology.

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Speaker 1: It's like, let's try to get a larger scale understanding.

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Speaker 1: Let's try to understand not just the world I live

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Speaker 1: in every day when I walk to my friend's house

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Speaker 1: or go to the river and wash my food, but

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Speaker 1: like the larger context where we find ourselves and how

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Speaker 1: it all works. So the beginning of that intellectual struggle.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, kind of asking like what's beyond what we can

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Speaker 4: see and touch?

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Speaker 1: Right? That's right? How does it all fit in? Right?

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Speaker 7: Like?

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Speaker 1: You know the picture frame that my life lives in.

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Speaker 1: Am I a tiny little dust mote in the corner?

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Speaker 1: Am I in the center of it? How big is

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Speaker 1: that picture frame?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 1: These are questions and I wonder sometimes like who were

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Speaker 1: the first people to think of those questions? You know,

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Speaker 1: as humanity emerge from you know, pre humans into intelligence,

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Speaker 1: Like when did people are humans? Post humans? When did

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Speaker 1: people first start to ask these kinds of questions? You know,

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Speaker 1: how big is the Earth? What is its shape? You know?

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Speaker 1: Where is the sun? All these kind of questions about

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Speaker 1: our basic cosmology?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like who do you think was the first sentient being?

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Speaker 4: That just kind of wondered, like if I keep going

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Speaker 4: in that direction, what's going to happen? Or if I

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Speaker 4: shoot straight up, what's going to happen? Or straight down?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think the answer will probably

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Speaker 1: make you happy, because I think that a lot of

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Speaker 1: anthropologists imagine that humans have been intelligent for tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of years, and the major evidence of that is

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Speaker 1: basically cartoons.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's I always say, that's a sure sign

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Speaker 4: of intelligence to draw them, to be able to draw them.

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Speaker 1: Or the sign of society is about to crumble.

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Speaker 4: That's right, and go extinct like those ancient civilizations.

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Speaker 1: No, but it's cave paintings, right, I mean we can

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Speaker 1: see which are basically cartoons, like people doing symbolic thinking

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Speaker 1: and describing dogs and buffalo and all sorts of things

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Speaker 1: on the walls of caves describing them. I think that's

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Speaker 1: the first sign of intelligence. So probably around then people

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Speaker 1: started to have thoughts about, you know, their situation and

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Speaker 1: how it works, and what's the what's the bigger situation

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Speaker 1: that their life is in, and so I think that's

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Speaker 1: what led them to ask this question.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, that's kind of the question is you know,

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Speaker 4: what did humans think about when they ask themselves what

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Speaker 4: happens if I keep going in one direction? And so

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Speaker 4: today on the program, we'll be tackling the question is

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Speaker 4: the Earth round?

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Speaker 1: That's right? What shape is this crazy rock that we're

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Speaker 1: living on? And you know, you can look at a

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Speaker 1: lot of things that people describe early on, you know,

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Speaker 1: drawings from hundreds or thousands of years ago, people trying

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Speaker 1: to draw maps and imagine what the Earth looked like.

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Speaker 1: And there's some pretty crazy the ideas out there. But

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Speaker 1: if you just sort of look around you, right, if

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Speaker 1: you're just like born in the world, and you look around,

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Speaker 1: the world looks pretty flat, right, Like, as far as

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Speaker 1: you can see, the ground is pretty flat.

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Speaker 4: You think that we're sort of on a flat surface, right,

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Speaker 4: because your immediate surface around you is flat, and kind

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Speaker 4: of you look out a little bit further, it's still flat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it seems simple, right, And if your goal

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Speaker 1: is to understand around you what's around you, then the

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Speaker 1: first thing you're going to do is think of the

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Speaker 1: simplest thing. And the world looks kind of flat, and

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Speaker 1: you can't see that far away. And you know, many surfaces,

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Speaker 1: if you're only looking a small portion of them look flat.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Earth could be all sorts of crazy shapes.

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Speaker 1: And if you only look in your neighborhood, it might

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Speaker 1: look flat in the vicinity.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So, and I imagine most of our listeners probably

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Speaker 4: think or know that the Earth is not flat, But

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Speaker 4: we're wondering if people actually know. The real answer to

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Speaker 4: the question is to Earth round?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Or what is the shape of the Earth?

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Speaker 4: That's a different question. What shape is it in.

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Speaker 1: That's right, which if it is it.

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Speaker 4: Politically fitness wise, I.

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Speaker 1: Think we should not be judgmental the Earth. I think

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Speaker 1: we should be Earth positive, you know. I think this

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Speaker 1: is the only one we have. And it gets depressed

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Speaker 1: and you know, decides to end itself and plumb it

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Speaker 1: into the sun, you'll be sorry.

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Speaker 4: That's right. The Earth is round and proud.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Exactly Who wants to be on a slender

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Speaker 1: planet anyway?

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Speaker 7: You know?

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Speaker 4: All right? So, as usual, we were wondering how people

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Speaker 4: out there on the street would answer this question, and

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Speaker 4: so Daniel went out there into the street and accosted

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Speaker 4: innocent bystanders and asked him a very basic question.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And not only did I ask them if

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Speaker 1: they believe the Earth was round, but I asked them

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Speaker 1: how they knew, which I thought. Let some of the

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Speaker 1: more fascinating answers.

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Speaker 4: Well, let's see what people had to say.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe the Earth is round?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Why what evidence do you have that the Earth is round?

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Speaker 7: I think it is best answered by astronomy. Is like

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Speaker 7: of the eriss round, they go, If the Earth is

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Speaker 7: not round, you go, You start from a point, and

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Speaker 7: you keep going and you never reach to death to

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Speaker 7: your first place.

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Speaker 1: Do you agree with me?

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Speaker 7: So it's one reason, and there are I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 7: there are like lots of proofs about it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Why what evidence do you have the Earth is round?

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Speaker 5: Because the idea that satellites are free fall and that

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Speaker 5: they free for all around the Earth. So if you

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Speaker 5: throw a ball, it has a curve, and so that

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Speaker 5: kind of goes ahead and improves that, like we're falling innocence,

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Speaker 5: and so that can go ahead and explain how satellites

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Speaker 5: can fall around the Earth.

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Speaker 1: Constantly cool orbits orbit. Okay, good answer. Yes, Why what

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Speaker 1: evidence do you have?

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Speaker 8: Well, based on what everyone else has said, I don't know,

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Speaker 8: there's some evidence, but I do believe the Earth is round.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe that the Earth is round?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: What evidence do you have in the Earth is round? Airplanes?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, pictures of like from the ices, things

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Speaker 1: like that, all right, pictures from space.

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Speaker 6: The astronomical objects are also around, So around I do believe.

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Speaker 3: There is around here.

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Speaker 1: Why is that whatever is around? I believe there is

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Speaker 1: around because just what I've learned in my education growing

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Speaker 1: up middle school to high school to college is just

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Speaker 1: what I'm familiar with. So yes, why what evidence do

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Speaker 1: you have? Oh pictures from NASA?

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Speaker 4: All right, pretty no flat earthers. You couldn't find any

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Speaker 4: flat earthers out there in Irvine.

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Speaker 1: That's right, good job you see, erline. I was really

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Speaker 1: relieved to not run into any flat earthers. I mean

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Speaker 1: I was a tiny bit curious, like, what would I

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Speaker 1: do if I met a flat earther? Would I like

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Speaker 1: engage them in debate on the spot and be able

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Speaker 1: to persuade them. Anybody who believed the Earth is flat

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Speaker 1: is probably not really open to actual scientific dialogue on

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Speaker 1: the subject. But I was also sort of relieved that,

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Speaker 1: like in this educational community, at least we've succeeded at

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Speaker 1: that level that everybody understands the basics of the world

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Speaker 1: around them.

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Speaker 4: I think the flat earthers only exist on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I wonder if the flat earthers are all just trolls,

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Speaker 1: you know, if they're just being ridiculous to make everybody

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Speaker 1: mad because they get their kicks by pissing people off.

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Speaker 1: But I did some research, and there's a pretty hardcore

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Speaker 1: group of people out there that really, honestly, sincerely believe

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Speaker 1: the Earth is flat.

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Speaker 4: So you got pretty much everyone said yes, and they

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Speaker 4: all had all pretty good reasons for believing that the

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Speaker 4: Earth is round.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would grade some of the reasons as excellent,

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Speaker 1: and some of the reasons is a little weak, Like

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Speaker 1: the weaker ones are like, well, everybody says so, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that's okay. Like you, you know, you should be

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Speaker 1: a skeptical person. You should try to think about these

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Speaker 1: things for yourself. On the other hand, like if there's

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Speaker 1: something that everybody's believing, probably it's true. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: probably a good reason why, you know, scientists and experts

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Speaker 1: and everybody are saying xyz is true. So while you

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Speaker 1: should be skeptical, you shouldn't just toss out everything that

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Speaker 1: experts are saying just because you can't prove it yourself.

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Speaker 4: Well, it gets a little bit philosophical, because I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's impossible to know everything and to be where of

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Speaker 4: all the evidence for every single thing out there in

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Speaker 4: the world, and so at some point you do sort

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Speaker 4: of have to be like, all, right, most scientists believe this,

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Speaker 4: I guess it's probably true.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, sometimes you have to talk to an expert,

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Speaker 1: and you know, what's the point of talking to experts

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Speaker 1: if you're not going to believe what they say, right,

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Speaker 1: like you ask me physics questions, you don't go off

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Speaker 1: and double check every single thing I say?

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Speaker 4: Or do you I triple check it?

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Speaker 5: Daniel?

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Speaker 1: Does that mean you have two other physicists on the

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Speaker 1: line who are like giving the thumbs up of the thumbs.

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Speaker 4: Down in secret Daniels in my pocket?

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Speaker 1: Man, I'd like some secret Daniels in my pocket. Do

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Speaker 1: some of my work for me. That'd be awesome.

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Speaker 4: I have a Daniel Grayson and a Daniel and green green.

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Speaker 1: Sun, different shades of Daniel, all the colors of Daniel,

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Speaker 1: different round fifty shades of Daniel.

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Speaker 4: There's a passing book.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what that book is about.

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Speaker 4: I have known there should be the fan fiction version

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Speaker 4: of this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Right, they're not safe for work version. The other answer

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Speaker 1: is that I really liked where the one. People who

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Speaker 1: have their own reasons, you know, who had thought about it.

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Speaker 1: They're like, well, that's impossible, and here's why they could

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Speaker 1: actually make an argument, you know, like everything else out

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Speaker 1: there is round, or we know that things are in orbit, right,

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Speaker 1: these are good reasons. Or you know, people who don't

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Speaker 1: think that the government is lying to them about everything.

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Speaker 4: They believe the pictures, they believe, the they believe the

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Speaker 4: you know, they believe the pictures of other I mean,

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Speaker 4: and I guess you can see other planets, right, You

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Speaker 4: can see the moon, and with the tall scub you

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Speaker 4: can see other planets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you certainly can. You can see other planets, and

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Speaker 1: they're all round. Pretty much everything out there in space

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Speaker 1: above a certain size is round, and for a good reason. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's a round dish at least. And the reason is

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Speaker 1: just gravity, you know. Any if you have a big

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Speaker 1: enough object, it's gonna have a lot of gravity. And

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Speaker 1: then if it's not round, that means that some part

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Speaker 1: is further from the center than another part. And eventually

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Speaker 1: it's just going to break and roll downhill like all

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Speaker 1: mountains on Earth. All mountains on Earth will eventually crumble, right,

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Speaker 1: due to and gravity and other forces.

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Speaker 4: If we're going to answer this question, is earth round?

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Speaker 4: Let's start kind of where humans started, right, And so

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Speaker 4: let's start first of all with how do we know

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Speaker 4: the Earth is not flat? Because that's kind of what

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Speaker 4: your intuition would tell you if you never traveled or

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Speaker 4: pictures from space.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, so if you haven't seen pictures from space

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Speaker 1: and you're like, you know, natural science kind of person

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Speaker 1: a few thousand years ago, how might you figure out

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Speaker 1: that the Earth is not flat? Well, you know, the

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Speaker 1: history of it is that people did things like they

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Speaker 1: did experiments where they stuck sticks in the ground and

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Speaker 1: they looked at the shadows. Now, if the Earth is

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Speaker 1: flat and the sun is just like above us, then

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Speaker 1: every stick is going to have a shadow the same length.

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Speaker 1: But if the Earth is round, then those shadows are

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Speaker 1: going to be different lengths at different places. And so

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Speaker 1: this is like what a Greek guy did. He put

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Speaker 1: tall sticks in different towns in Greece, and he knew

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Speaker 1: how far away those towns were from each other, and

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Speaker 1: he measured the angles of those sticks and the length

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Speaker 1: of the shadows, and from that he could estimate he

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Speaker 1: could prove that the Earth was round and estimate its

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Speaker 1: size to pretty good accuracy.

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Speaker 4: What is this a like a apocryphal story or for real?

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Speaker 1: Hey, you know everything about ancient Greece could be apocryphal, right,

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Speaker 1: the whole bank just be invented as far as as

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Speaker 1: far as we know. But you know this is as

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Speaker 1: far as we understand it. This really happened.

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Speaker 4: Age.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about whether Greece really happened, right. Is

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Speaker 1: Greece just a conspiracy man?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 1: But you know, the thing about ancient Greece is that

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Speaker 1: we know so little of what happened because the Dark

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Speaker 1: Ages and so much of what they did was destroyed.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we have like a tiny trickle of

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Speaker 1: the vibrant and intellectual product of that civilization. So we

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Speaker 1: really don't know what was going on in ancient Greece.

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Speaker 1: We know a tiny little sliver, which is such a tragedy.

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Speaker 1: It breaks my heart to think about all those great

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Speaker 1: ideas that were just like lost, you know.

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Speaker 4: But anyway, all those big wine parties.

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Speaker 1: No, it's just to me, it's it breaks my heart

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Speaker 1: when I when I think about you know, progress that's

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Speaker 1: been made, Things have been figured out, mathematics has been developed,

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Speaker 1: and then just just discarded or lost, you know, like

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Speaker 1: in huge fires of ancient libraries and destructions of civilization. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we do have some clues about what happened in ancient Greece,

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Speaker 1: and there are stories about folks measuring the size of

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Speaker 1: the Earth using basically just two sticks in the ground.

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Speaker 4: Okay, and so the idea is that he planted a

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Speaker 4: stick in one town and then it's kind of like

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Speaker 4: if you plant the stick in the California and then

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Speaker 4: you run over to Florida and plant another stick there.

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Speaker 4: At any given time of the day, the shadows are

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Speaker 4: might be different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there will be different lengths, right, because those two

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Speaker 1: sticks have a different angle with respect to the sun.

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Speaker 4: They're seeing the sun at different points in the sky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 4: And if the earth, but if the earth was flat,

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Speaker 4: the shadows would be identical.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, Yes, Yeah, that's the point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, they wouldn't be the same, would they.

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Speaker 1: Well, they would be the same length. They might be

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Speaker 1: a different angle, but they would be the same length

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Speaker 1: for sure. For sure. I mean depends on your particular

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Speaker 1: flat earth model, right, But on a sphere, it's definitely

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Speaker 1: true that there are different lengths and angles and that

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Speaker 1: you can use that to measure the size of the sphere.

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Speaker 1: And another key element, of course, is knowing that the

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Speaker 1: Sun is really really far away, so that the light

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Speaker 1: that comes from it is basically always parallel, because otherwise

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Speaker 1: you could try to explain the different angles that you

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Speaker 1: get from sticks to different places and make it consistent

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Speaker 1: with the flat earth. You could try to do that

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Speaker 1: by saying, oh, well, maybe the Sun is really close

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Speaker 1: to the Earth and that's why we get different angles

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Speaker 1: right over a flat earth. But that's silly. We know

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Speaker 1: the Sun is far away. If the Sun was that

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Speaker 1: close to the Earth, you could see it's apparent size

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Speaker 1: like change as you move around the Earth, and we

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Speaker 1: don't see that. So that's an important part of the argument.

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Speaker 4: Oh interesting, But wouldn't that require you to have like

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Speaker 4: a walky talkie between the two places, you know, to say,

437
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 4: all right, right now, measure the length of the shadow.

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00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 4: But if you don't have that instant communication, how would

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00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 4: you like coordinate it and know that it was measured

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Speaker 4: at same time.

441
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,239
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I don't know how they managed it.

442
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,679
Speaker 1: Maybe they had walky tnkies in ancient Greece. In Greece,

443
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 1: that's right, No, definitely didn't.

444
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 4: We don't know anything they could have burned with the library.

445
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 1: I mean, the power of the test is greater the

446
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: further the sticks are apart, But I don't know how

447
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: far apart they have to be for you to have

448
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 1: a measurable effect. It might not have to be very far,

449
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: you know, so you might be able to say, like,

450
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 1: all right, we'll both walk for an hour and then

451
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: plant a stick and then measure the length, and that

452
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: might be enough.

453
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 4: Oh I see, Or maybe like smoke signals or something

454
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 4: like if it's several miles, then you could still do it.

455
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, smoke signals exactly. You'd be good at inventing physics

456
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: experiments in ancient Greece. Yeah, I definitely want you around.

457
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: But there are also other ways. You don't have to

458
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: do two sticks in the ground, like, there are other

459
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: ways to figure out that the Earth is round even

460
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: without technology.

461
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 4: All right, what are those ways?

462
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: Well, you can just look at the stars. Right, travel

463
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: the Earth and look at the stars. You see different

464
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: stars from different parts of the Earth. Right. If the

465
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: Earth is flat, then everybody should be seeing the same sky.

466
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: I mean, you'd be seeing it from a slightly different

467
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 1: point of view if you're at a different spot on

468
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: the Earth. But some stars are blocked by the Earth.

469
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: Right you walk from you walk from North America to

470
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: South America, you're gonna see different stars in the sky. Right,

471
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 1: the northern stars, you can't see them because the Earth's

472
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 1: curvatures in the way I see.

473
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 4: So if you assuming you can remember the sky right.

474
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: Or you can draw it. For example, Yeah, you heard

475
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: of that drawing only caves. I only know that kind.

476
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: And you can't see the stars when you're in a cave,

477
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: so you can sort of you chisel on the side

478
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: of you drew on the side of a cave. You

479
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: walk to South America, you draw in another cave, and

480
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: they're like, hmm, I should have brought my cave with me.

481
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: That's how they invented the portable cave, probably otherwise known

482
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: as a tent.

483
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 4: Okay. So that's another way you would tell right, is

484
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 4: you would notice that the stars are different in different

485
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 4: parts of the Earth, which means that the Earth can't

486
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 4: be flat.

487
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: That's right. That's another reason. Another way you can tell,

488
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: again without really much technology, is just seasons. Like, how

489
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: do you get seasons on a flat earth? Right? I

490
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 1: mean different parts of the Earth have difference. You might say, okay,

491
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: well we can get we can get winter if the

492
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,199
Speaker 1: sun goes further away. We can get summer when the

493
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: sun gets closer. But we have different seasons and a

494
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 1: different part of the earth. Right, we have summer in

495
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: the northern hemisphere when we have winter in the southern hemisphere.

496
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: How do you account for that?

497
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 4: Well, I mean if I lived thousands of years ago,

498
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 4: I mean I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know anything, right,

499
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 4: For all I know, there are gods and weird you know,

500
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 4: magical beings that make it winter here and summer there.

501
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, And there is always another explanation that's like

502
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 1: ridiculously complicated, involves magic and gods or like crazy trajectories

503
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: that can explain all the data. But we prefer the simplest, right,

504
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: If the simplest explanation is that the Earth is a

505
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: body just like all the other ones we see and

506
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 1: it looks just like them, and it's also circular. It's

507
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: also basically spherical, and that explains everything we see. And

508
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: so it's like, by far the explanation we prefer to,

509
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: there's some crazy magic aliens out there doing some crazy

510
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: tricks on us or here on earth or here on

511
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: Earth exactly.

512
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 4: Okay, cool? And then what's the last experiment you, as

513
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 4: a Greek scientist can do.

514
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 9: Well?

515
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: The simplest one is that you can see hints of

516
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: the curvature. I mean you can look at ships, for example,

517
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: coming over the horizon from far away, like what's blocking them? Right?

518
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: Ships coming over the horizon, You're seeing them come over

519
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: the curvature of the Earth. Right, that's pretty direct right there.

520
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: And in a similar way, you can see further when

521
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: you get higher up. Like if the Earth was flat,

522
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 1: then you couldn't see any further by getting any higher up,

523
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: or you could see at a different angle, right, but

524
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: you couldn't see any further. But on a spherical Earth

525
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: or nearly spherical Earth, the higher you go, the yes

526
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: the Earth's curvature blocks you, the larger your field of view.

527
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what you experience. You go to a

528
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: skyscraper or the top of a mountain, you can see

529
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: much further.

530
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 4: Okay, so I guess the idea is that is that

531
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 4: if the Earth was flat and you were standing at

532
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 4: the beach and you saw a ship go off and

533
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 4: away from you, it would just get smaller and smaller

534
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 4: and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller.

535
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 4: It wouldn't ever disappear from view, that's.

536
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: Right, and you could eventually see it like dock in

537
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: Japan or something. Right, if you had a super duper telescope.

538
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 4: Oh, it would just look really really really small. But

539
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 4: you could technically see Japan if the Earth was flat, I.

540
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: Mean, Japan is closed. You'd be limited by basically the air, right,

541
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: the air wiggles makes things fuzzy. But yeah, technically you'd

542
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: be able to see all the way across the ocean.

543
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: If the Earth was flat.

544
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 4: Oh wow, that would be cool.

545
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be pretty cool, wouldn't it.

546
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 4: It'd be cool if was flat, though, I.

547
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: Guess it'd be nighttime in Japan. That would be awesome. Actually,

548
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: you could like see different time zones.

549
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 4: Oh, I see, but even if I take a telescope

550
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 4: and I look out into the ocean with a telescope,

551
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 4: I would just at some point see nothing because my

552
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 4: line of sight would just go off into space.

553
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: That's right. And if you're on a boat in the

554
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: middle of the ocean, all you can see is water

555
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: because everything else is around the curve of the Earth, right.

556
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 4: Okay, and then you have one well last Greek experiment

557
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 4: you can do right involving sunsets.

558
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, there's a long list of reasons that

559
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: we believe the Earth is round, but another one is, yeah,

560
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: it's sunsets. Like, how do you explain sunsets on a

561
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: flat earth? You know the models I've seen of a

562
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: flat earth that have like, I mean, it's kind of ridiculous.

563
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: But you have this flat plane and then you have

564
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: the Sun which is really small compared to the Earth,

565
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: and it's sort of moving around the circular Earth, right

566
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: for the flat earth.

567
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 4: Like a lamp, because like a lamp just going around.

568
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: The Yeah, and it's like shining like a spotlight, like

569
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: it's directional or something. So you know, I don't understand

570
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: how you get day or night because the Sun is

571
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: a sphere. We can see that it's a sphere, right,

572
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: It's definitely it would shine on the whole surface of

573
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: the Earth all the time. I mean, if you had

574
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: a flat Earth with the sun above it, then you

575
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: would have never had nighttime unless the sun went below

576
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: the flat Earth, in which case every part of the

577
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: Earth would see sunset at the same time, which definitely

578
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: doesn't happen.

579
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 4: Okay. So I think the point is that even if

580
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 4: you are super skeptical of scientists and you don't believe

581
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 4: anything anyone ever tells you or believe any pictures you see,

582
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 4: there are still ways that you could be convinced yourself

583
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 4: that the Earth is not flat.

584
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: That's right, And people did these things and they figured

585
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: them out, and that's why people believe the Earth is round,

586
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 1: even well before we had technology. But now that we

587
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: have amazing technology, it's pretty easy to discover that the

588
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: Earth is round.

589
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: So the because you know, I grew up in Panama

590
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 4: and for us, you know, Christopher Columbus was like a

591
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 4: big deal, and so you know, as a kid, you

592
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 4: just like you always hear like, oh, he proved that

593
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 4: the Earth is round. But that's a little bit of

594
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 4: historical below your Yeah.

595
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: I think it was widely spread among anybody who had

596
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: any education. The belief that the Earth was round was

597
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: already widely spread by then, but.

598
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 4: I guess he was the first or one of the

599
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 4: first to really kind of connect it physically.

600
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I never really understood that argument because Christopher

601
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: Columbus was trying to use the fact that the Earth

602
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: was round to get to India, right, and so he

603
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: thought he got to India. He's like, okay, look, I

604
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: got to India, and therefore the Earth is round. But

605
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: the problem is he didn't get to India, so he

606
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: didn't prove anything, right. He just proved that if you

607
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: get in the boat and sail, you get to some

608
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: more land. He didn't really prove anything at all. I mean,

609
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus, Like, there's so much trouble with Christopher Columbus,

610
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: you know, on top of genocide and miss miss naming

611
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: Americans as Indians and all that sort of stuff, but

612
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: he didn't really prove the Earth was round at all.

613
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 4: Okay, but I guess I guess we won't get into

614
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: the politics of it.

615
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: It's pretty dark.

616
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 4: But yeah, so all right, so then that's how we

617
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 4: know the Earth is not flat. So let's get into

618
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 4: whether the Earth is actually round or not. But First,

619
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 4: let's take a quick break.

620
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

621
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

622
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

623
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

624
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

625
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty That's why they're working

626
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

627
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

628
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

629
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

630
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy

631
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

632
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

633
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

634
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

635
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

636
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

637
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: dairy products we love. With less of an impact. Visit

638
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

639
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 6: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on passing

640
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 6: the roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

641
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 6: ones who need them.

642
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: To get home safely.

643
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 6: Protect our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely.

644
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 6: California from the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

645
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,239
Speaker 8: Want the secret to your best skin yet. I've been

646
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,600
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647
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648
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649
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650
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651
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652
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653
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654
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655
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656
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657
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659
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,840
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660
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,120
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661
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,080
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662
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,760
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663
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 4: All right, so we talked about how if you were

664
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 4: a Greek scientist back in the day, you might be

665
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 4: able to figure it out that the Earth is not flat.

666
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: But yeah, how about today, like you know, we as

667
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,479
Speaker 4: citizens have everyday sittizens have access through a little bit

668
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 4: more technology. So how could a scientists today without if

669
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 4: they didn't believe pictures or other scientists, how could we

670
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 4: find out? How can we be scientists and complete that

671
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 4: the Earth is not flat?

672
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: You mean without being Elon Musk and having our own

673
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: spaceship company and going into space.

674
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 4: Ourselves without being billionaires. Let's say you just have like

675
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 4: you know, one hundred dollars or ten dollars in your pocket.

676
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: Because the billionaire the billionaire demographic of our listeners is

677
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: probably pretty.

678
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 4: Small, right, but if we have one, hey, give us

679
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 4: a coll Please.

680
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: Send us an email. All the billionaires out there, please

681
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: send us an email you.

682
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 4: Want to record an episode from space.

683
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: That's right featuring you. Well, first I want to comment

684
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: on like should you disbelieve other scientists? And again, it's

685
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: healthy to be skeptical. There are times when everybody's wrong

686
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: about something. But let's remember that everybody out there doing

687
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: science is trying to be right, you know, they want

688
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: to figure it out. They're not out there trying to

689
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: convince people of things that are not true. Like NASA

690
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: is not lying to people. There is no crazy agenda,

691
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: and it's impossible for that to even be It's not

692
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: practical for that to happen because NASA is filled with

693
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of scientists who all want to figure out

694
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: the right answer and share it. So if there was

695
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: some absurd conspiracy to lie to the public for ridiculous

696
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: reasons about the shape of the Earth, somebody out there

697
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: would disprove it. Somebody out there would be like, haha,

698
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: look I have proof, and somebody would would get the

699
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: credit for that. So science is filled with people who

700
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,719
Speaker 1: want the truth and want to share the truth, and

701
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: sometimes they make honest mistakes. But it's impossible to imagine

702
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: a widespread scientific conspiracy.

703
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 4: I think also, even if you don't believe in the

704
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 4: altruism of scientists. I always like to think and sit

705
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 4: tell people that you know, like if you ever meet

706
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 4: a scientist, each one of them, and maybe you can

707
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 4: prove me wrong. But like I think one each scientist

708
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 4: out there would love nothing more than to be the

709
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 4: guy that disproves everybody else.

710
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, even from a cynical point of view, right,

711
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: they all want the glory. I would love to reveal

712
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: that all of science has misunderstood something. I mean, I

713
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: think I've said that on this potest before. That's my

714
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: personal scientific fantasies to discover something which forces us to

715
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: rethink foundational ideas. Right, that's fantastic. Everybody would love to

716
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: be in that position. And so to prove that the

717
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: Earth is a different shape than everybody thought, Wow, that

718
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: would be fantastic. So, yeah, you're right, from a purely

719
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: selfish point of.

720
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 4: View, if ninety nine percent of sciences say something and

721
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 4: you know that they're all trying to prove each other wrong,

722
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 4: you know the fact that they agree is like extra

723
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 4: extra validity.

724
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. But imagine that, you know you want to

725
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: check it for yourself. You want to be the scientist

726
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: to disprove everybody. How could you do that? That was

727
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 1: your question, And these days it's actually not that hard

728
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: because of the ubiquity of basically high resolution cameras. All

729
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 1: you need to do is take a picture from high

730
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: enough that you can see the curvature of the Earth.

731
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: And to get high enough to like really see the

732
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: curvature and indisputable way, you need to be like thirty

733
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: five forty forty five thousand feet up above the ground.

734
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 4: To see the curvature of the Earth. I guess you know,

735
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 4: it's not immediately clear what that means. So I guess

736
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 4: if you go out really really far, like to the moon,

737
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 4: you would definitely see the Earth as round, right, that's right.

738
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 4: But down here it looks flat, And so as you

739
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 4: keep going up and out, you're going to see kind

740
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 4: of more more of the rounded shape of the Earth.

741
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: Exactly. So, as you imagine you're floating up from the Earth, right,

742
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: at first, it seems flat, and then you get higher

743
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: and higher up, you're, like you know, at airplane levels,

744
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: it still seems mostly flat, but as you zoom out

745
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: you see it more as a planet, un less it's

746
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: just a surface, right, You're zooming away from it, you

747
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: have more perspective on the overall shape of it, and

748
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: then you can start to see the overall shape. You

749
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: can see this curvature, and you know, above forty thousand

750
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: feet or so, it becomes pretty clear. And you might

751
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: be thinking, well, how do I get above forty thousand feet?

752
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: And the only way to do that through an airplane

753
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: and those windows are weird and have curves and whatever,

754
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: So how do I really believe that? Well, all you

755
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: need to do is send your phone up there, and

756
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: folks have done this. You can just build a weather balloon,

757
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: which is basically just a big bag of helium or hydrogen,

758
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: and attach a phone to it and it'll go up

759
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: really really high, you know, eighty thousand feet one hundred

760
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: thousand feet basically up to near space, and high schoolers

761
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: have done this. You know, you can google for pictures

762
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: of it.

763
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 4: Wait, what do you do though? Do you start like

764
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 4: a FaceTime conversation and then send it up?

765
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: Well, no, there's no service up there, but you you know,

766
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 1: you start recording and you send it up, and then

767
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: the trick of course is recovering it. Right where does

768
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: it come down?

769
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 4: So you just have it like take pictures. Every couple

770
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 4: of seconds, it goes up, the balloon pops, it falls down,

771
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 4: and then you recover it and you get the pictures.

772
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. You have a little parachute, right, so it

773
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: doesn't just plummet to earth and burn up and re

774
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: entry and smash and then you get the pictures. And

775
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: they're pretty fantastic pictures and it's very clear, and those

776
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: pictures the curvature of the Earth, and they're gorgeous too.

777
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: I mean, they're beautiful pictures.

778
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 4: It wouldn't be like an effect of the fish eye

779
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 4: lands or anything.

780
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not. I mean you can see it increasing

781
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: with altitude. Right, it's not an artifact.

782
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 4: So if you have a n iPhone to spare and

783
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 4: a weather balloon, you could you could discover that the

784
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 4: Earth is round or or are they right? That's kind

785
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 4: of the question that we post at the beginning, Right,

786
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 4: is the Earth actually round or not?

787
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: That's right, and so we're pretty sure there is not flat.

788
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: And if you look at pictures from space, you're like, okay,

789
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: the Earth is round, right, it looks pretty round. But

790
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 1: let's get precise, like do we really mean the Earth

791
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: is like round? Is it a perfect sphere. Well, the

792
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: key is that the Earth is spinning, right, and spinning

793
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: things have extra complications.

794
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 4: Like if the Earth was not spinning, it would it

795
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 4: would be perfectly round.

796
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: You think, if the Earth was not spinning, it'd be

797
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: much closer to perfectly round. Now, perfectly perfectly round is impossible.

798
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: I mean, even if you like sanded the Earth down microscopically,

799
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: there's no way to get all the atoms exactly the

800
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: same distance from the center of the Earth, you know,

801
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: and a microscopic level level, perfectly round is impossible, even

802
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: perfectly round it like the you know, the one mile

803
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: level is pretty tough because mountains, right, mountains and valleys

804
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: and all sorts of stuff, and eventually those will you know,

805
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: roll down into rubble. But then thanks to play technotics,

806
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: so you'll get new mountains. So at the one two

807
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: mile level, you know, the level even of like Mount Everest,

808
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: it's pretty hard to have it be perfectly flat. But

809
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: there's an even bigger effect, which is because the Earth

810
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: is spinning and so it's it's not perfectly symmetric anymore. Right,

811
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: the Earth is round, it seems you might think like

812
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: every direction should be the same, but it's not, because

813
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: the Earth is spinning on a specific axis, and that

814
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: spinning has this effect of pushing things away from that axis,

815
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: the north south axis. It's like if you're on a

816
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: merry go round and somebody spins it, you feel this

817
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: this effect that's trying to throw you off the merry

818
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: go round, right, unless you're holding on. And so the

819
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: same way if you if you spin up. If you

820
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: take a planet that's not spinning and you spin it,

821
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: it's going to make it a little bit flatter and

822
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of sort of blobbier. Right, It's going

823
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: to make things further away from the center at the

824
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: equator and a little closer in at the poles.

825
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 4: Is it that it's pushing the stuff out in the

826
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 4: on the equator outwards or is it that maybe the

827
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 4: stuff on the equator doesn't feel as much gravity as

828
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 4: the stuff in the north and south pole.

829
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: No, it's an effect of the rotation. It's like if

830
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: you take, you know, a pizza, you're spin it. Take

831
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: a pizza and you spin it, right, it gets bigger.

832
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: Why does it get bigger? Right? Because it's the spinning.

833
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 5: Right.

834
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: The spinning has this effective forces centrifugal force that pushes

835
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: things out, and it's an artifact of the spinning.

836
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 4: So like if I'm feeling a little bit round and

837
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 4: patted in my middle section here, it could be because

838
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 4: I've been spinning too much.

839
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: There are other explanations, but yes, really simpler explanations. Too

840
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: many banana cream pies, I don't know. Yeah, but if

841
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 1: you take something you take like a ball of dough,

842
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 1: and you spin it, then it'll flatten, right, it'll flatten,

843
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: and it'll get wider and in the middle and shorter

844
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: on the.

845
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 4: Top, oh, get shorter. And so that's what's happened to

846
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 4: the Earth.

847
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: That's what happened at Earth. Yeah, but you know, don't

848
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:03,919
Speaker 1: be alarmed.

849
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 4: As it formed or after it formed, do you know

850
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 4: what I mean? Or like it's always been oblong or

851
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 4: it's always been non round.

852
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: That's a great question. It's definitely true as long as

853
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: the Earth has been spinning. And I'm pretty sure the

854
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: Earth has been spinning since it was formed, because it's

855
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: been angular momentum. But that must have changed, like for example,

856
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: on the planet Uranus. Right Uranus was hit by something

857
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: really big that knocked it off, it's spinning in a

858
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: different direction. That probably changed the shape of Urinus also,

859
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: So that's a cool question. Yeah. Yeah, so if you

860
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: change the spin of a planet, it'll change its shape.

861
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 4: And aren't there theories that say that our moon We

862
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 4: had a whole podcasts about it, by the way, you

863
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 4: guys can look at it, look for it in the

864
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 4: in the archive, but it isn't there a theory that

865
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 4: maybe we were hit by a giant rock and that's

866
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: how the moon formed, and so maybe our axe has

867
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 4: also changed.

868
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be. It could be we were spinning

869
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: a faster or slower before that massive collision and that

870
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: would change the shape of the Earth. But you know,

871
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 1: taking a moon size chunk also changes shape of the Earth.

872
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was a big event in terms of

873
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: shape of the Earth. But people might be wondering out there,

874
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: like how big an effect is this is? Like, you know,

875
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: because if you look at the pictures from the from space,

876
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: the Earth looks pretty round. I mean maybe people haven't

877
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: done like precise measurements of those photographs, but it does

878
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: look pretty round, and it is pretty round. The answer

879
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: is that the at the equator, the distance to the

880
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: center is about thirteen miles more than it is at

881
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: the poles.

882
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 4: So the Earth is wider than it is taller by thirteen.

883
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: Miles by thirteen miles. And on one hand, that's a

884
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 1: big difference in each direction, each direction. Yeah, radius, On

885
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: one hand, that's a big difference because like some of

886
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: the biggest features on Earth, like Mount Everest, are only

887
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: a few miles high, So this is like two or

888
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: three times bigger than that. Right. On the other hand,

889
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: it's pretty tiny because you know, the radius of the

890
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: Earth is thousands of miles, so it's a really pretty

891
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: small effect. Like if you were holding the Earth in

892
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: your hand, could you tell this difference if you like

893
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 1: rolled the Earth against a ro along a smooth surface,

894
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: when you notice it not rolling perfectly smoothly. I'm not sure.

895
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 4: I think would we who live on the surface of

896
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 4: Earth would notice it? For sure.

897
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be that cosmic alien that's playing games

898
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: with us, right, it's playing tricks.

899
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 4: Imagine Galactus, your galactus just picking up the Earth.

900
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think from that point of view, I think

901
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: it'd be pretty hard to tell. You know, I don't know,

902
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: for example, like a very high quality pool ball, you know,

903
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: like billiard ball, what's the level of sphericity of that

904
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 1: and how does it compare to the Earth?

905
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 4: That's a good question, like a professional great billiard ball ball.

906
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 4: Is it actually also even a sphere?

907
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even know. It might be more spherical mirith,

908
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: or it might be spherical within the same tolerance, right,

909
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 1: because thirteen miles is a small fraction of the radius

910
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: of the Earth.

911
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 4: And you're talking about kind of like the average distance

912
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 4: to the center of the Earth, right, because there are

913
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 4: sort of dips and valleys and oceans and stuff, but

914
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 4: like the average that's right. Yeah, Well, I guess the

915
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 4: question is why isn't it more oblong? You know what

916
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 4: I mean? Like the Earth is spinning pretty fast at

917
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 4: least once a day that I know of, and that's

918
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 4: a lot of earth to move around. Why is it

919
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 4: more like opal shape?

920
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well that depends on sort of the internal strength

921
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: of the earth. Right. If the Earth was made out

922
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: of like, I don't know, cotton candy or something, and

923
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: you spun it this fast, then probably a bunch of

924
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: the cotton candy would get flung out into space, but

925
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: it holds itself together, right. It depends on the strength

926
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: of the material.

927
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 4: Like if the Earth was made out of pizza, dough.

928
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 4: We would be much flatter, that's right.

929
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: And also there's gravity, right, gravity does like to keep

930
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: things together, so there's a bunch of things that play there.

931
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: But yeah, if the Earth is made out of pizza dough,

932
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: it would have a different shape than it does today.

933
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: Let's do that experiment. Let's build a planet sized blob

934
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: of pizza dough just to find out.

935
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 4: That's right. Let's make a pizza shop for the galactusis

936
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 4: of the universe.

937
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: Any listening billionaires, that's where you should send your.

938
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 4: Funds, and then also send us into space to go

939
00:43:58,719 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 4: eat some of this pizza.

940
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: That's right. That's gonna take a lot of to minisols,

941
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: all right.

942
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 4: Well, so that that's the answers to the question. Is

943
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 4: the Earth round? And the answer is no, right, it's

944
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 4: around dead right, round dish, but almost it's rounded, more

945
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 4: rounded in the middle.

946
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: The Earth is definitely not flat, but I mean it's

947
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: definitely not flat, that's right, Like many of us, the

948
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 1: Earth is definitely not flat. It's definitely not flat. So

949
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: not flat, oh my god, definitely not flat. It's almost

950
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: perfectly spherical.

951
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 4: And well, the other way you can just test that

952
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 4: the Earth is round is just go off in one direction, right,

953
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 4: and just get on a plane and keep going.

954
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: That's right. You know. The flat earthers have an answer

955
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: to that. They say, well, the Earth is flat, and

956
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: if you move in a circle, you're actually moving in

957
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: a circle on that surface, which is crazy. It doesn't

958
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: make any sense because.

959
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 4: Oh, I see there's an answer for you.

960
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,959
Speaker 1: Well, but then you know, now those answers make sense,

961
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: Like if the Earth is flat, they put the North

962
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: pole at the center and the South pole is like

963
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: this wall of ice around the circular flat earth. But

964
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: if that were true, then that would really stretch out

965
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: distances between stuff and the southern hemisphere, right, because the

966
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,439
Speaker 1: southern hemisphere would become huge and the northern hemisphere would

967
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: be compressed. And so you would definitely notice, like if

968
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: you try to sail on a ship from you know,

969
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: Chile to China, you would notice that it took you

970
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: way longer than it should. Shipping captains and airplane pilots

971
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: would definitely notice if the Earth was flat.

972
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 4: All right. Well, and then there's a whole totally different question,

973
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 4: which is is space flat? Right? Like we could be

974
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 4: a rounded earth on a flat on flat space, right,

975
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 4: or a rounded Earth on a round space.

976
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: That's right. And I'm definitely a flat spacer.

977
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 4: You're a round Earth, but a flat spacer.

978
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: That's right. No space seems to be flat, and that's

979
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: really weird, right, we don't understand why space is flat.

980
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: For those of you who don't even know what that means,

981
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: check out our podcast on the shape and size of space.

982
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 1: Space is a weird, crazy thing, and do all sorts

983
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: of stuff you knowed imagined, including being curved or not

984
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: being curved.

985
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 4: And you might be able to send your iPhone out

986
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 4: into into the universe to find out.

987
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 1: That's right, leave the round Earth and go into flat

988
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: space and learn some things. But this is what I

989
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: love about these questions, you know, they tell us so

990
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: much about where we are in the world. And to

991
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: discover that the Earth is round and it looks just

992
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: like all those other planets must have been a huge

993
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: shock to the people who discovered that, right, to understand

994
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: something so deep about this situation we find ourselves in.

995
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: Those are the wonderful moments in science, right when you

996
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: get these flashes of insight and reveal something about the

997
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: context of the human experience.

998
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, or like it challenges everyday conceptions or ideas that

999
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 4: you might have, right exactly.

1000
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: The first guy to figure out the Earth was round,

1001
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 1: probably everybody scoff at him and thought, oh, he's crazy.

1002
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: He's one of those round earthers, right, because.

1003
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 4: The Internet, the Greek Internet.

1004
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 1: The marble Net. I think that a marble net back

1005
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: in ancient Greece.

1006
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, they're all just talking under walkie talkies, posting

1007
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 4: trolling comments.

1008
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: It's too bad we lost that. I mean, the Greeks

1009
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 1: developed the walkie talking technology and we lost in the

1010
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: Dark Ages. We had to reinvent it. Oh my gosh.

1011
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we had to reinvent the walkie talking.

1012
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So much of human civilization was lost. No,

1013
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: but I think it's it's wonderful when we have those

1014
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: moments when we understand something deep about the human experience.

1015
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 4: All right, well, if you are a flat earther, we're

1016
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 4: sorry that this podcast disappointing you. And if you were

1017
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 4: a round earther, we're also sorry sorry that you were

1018
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 4: disappointed that the Earth is not round.

1019
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: But if you're a pizza ball earther, then congratulations, you

1020
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: are right. The Earth is a pizza ball. And if

1021
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: you were a flat earther and you listen to this

1022
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 1: podcast and you were convinced, then congratulations for having an

1023
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 1: open mind.

1024
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 4: Well hope you guys enjoyed that. Thank you for listening.

1025
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 4: See you next time.

1026
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: If you still have a question after listening to all

1027
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd love to

1028
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter,

1029
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge That's one word, or

1030
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: email us at Feedback at Danielandhorge dot com. Thanks for

1031
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: listening and remember that. Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe

1032
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

1033
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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