Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 2: And welcome back to another episode of No Sealer's Podcast
Speaker 2: with your hosts Now fuck That with your loaw Glasses Malone.
Speaker 1: So on what's happening man?
Speaker 3: What's had? Then? Og Glasses appreciate y'all man for having
Speaker 3: me on here.
Speaker 1: Man, what you know about big and pop situation?
Speaker 3: Big and punk?
Speaker 1: What do you really remember? Like you you you just
Speaker 1: you just at the age to really remember you you you.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you were super tapped in, but
Speaker 2: everybody was tapped into hip hop at that time. It
Speaker 2: was kind of it had the whole world's mainstay. Mmm,
Speaker 2: what do you remember now? You know it, don't have
Speaker 2: to don't worry if it's uh the facts or not.
Speaker 2: But what do you remember what their beef was over?
Speaker 2: Because I feel like you can give a general perception
Speaker 2: of it from somebody in that time period, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like, what do you remember it was about?
Speaker 2: I think I thought, I mean, I just go ahead,
Speaker 2: don't worry about it. Did it come down did it
Speaker 2: come down to the faith yams faith?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Like that's what I thought. Eventually it came down to
Speaker 3: somebody messing with somebody chick. But it could like.
Speaker 1: It may not even been them.
Speaker 3: It could have just been entourage based.
Speaker 2: Like I remember, what did you hear about why you
Speaker 2: remember when Tupac got shot in New York?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I remember that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you remember about it? Your tron were Big?
Speaker 2: I remember that.
Speaker 3: Uh, Well, Pap was shooting a movie and Big had
Speaker 3: told him, like to watch out for these watch out
Speaker 3: for these dudes and watch who you roll with. And
Speaker 3: Pop went up to Believe Quad Studios and they he
Speaker 3: saw a little seeds up in the studio and Big
Speaker 3: was up there recording, and then I guess they tried
Speaker 3: to rob them in Poc, and Poc was upset because
Speaker 3: like if this is your city, like Biggie, this is
Speaker 3: your city, but these these nigga, these dudes and rob me.
Speaker 2: Okay, Pete, what do you remember hearing about that? You're
Speaker 2: kind of young, You're younger both of us.
Speaker 4: What do you remember hearing about that exact incident or
Speaker 4: about the broader first? Yeah, I remember being Yeah, like
Speaker 4: one of those things where it became a controversi ast
Speaker 4: to whether it was a setup or not. It seemed
Speaker 4: like a lot of stuff got leveraged and expanded in
Speaker 4: that whole deal, like it went from being like small
Speaker 4: to multi dimensional and broader as it went out. And
Speaker 4: with that matter, I remember being like sort of loosely
Speaker 4: reported to the extent that the reporting was of inequality about.
Speaker 1: Is this.
Speaker 4: Was it a setup or was it like perceived as
Speaker 4: a setup at the very least by Pack, which led
Speaker 4: to animosity.
Speaker 2: So like the Big said pocup Yeah, okay, Tom, So
Speaker 2: why do you remember Poc being mad at Big? Why
Speaker 2: was Pac Maddy Big? Was it just a part of
Speaker 2: this is your city?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, basically like this is your city. You're the number
Speaker 3: one rapper in New York right now. You should you
Speaker 3: should know. Even the the young dudes running running around
Speaker 3: the neighborhood, you should know. You should me them being
Speaker 3: friends with each other like them.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: I guess Pac used to let Big sleep on the
Speaker 3: couch like it's like you POC's thinking, like you my
Speaker 3: man's and I'm in your city getting robbed, kind of
Speaker 3: like if you go to l A, like if you
Speaker 3: I guess if you check in, you're supposed to be good.
Speaker 3: So I guess Tupac felt like, well, Pac was from
Speaker 3: New York too, But I guess Pac was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: Po's from New York too, So why would he have
Speaker 3: to check in?
Speaker 4: That's like the whole thing seems so stupid, you know,
Speaker 4: thinking about it, like like you a rapper, you can
Speaker 4: control what everybody on the streets is gonna do or doing.
Speaker 2: And this is why I wanted to have this conversation
Speaker 2: with y'all. I saw this dope interview with Clark Kent.
Speaker 2: Clark Kent is a really dope producer from that time
Speaker 2: period in New York, real managed dope, and he was
Speaker 2: saying he was upset. He said he never let it
Speaker 2: go right because he felt Biggie was killed because Tupac
Speaker 2: lied about what happened at Quad Studio shooting hm right,
Speaker 2: which goes to your point tone where you were saying
Speaker 2: that became the narrative, right, So there was a combination
Speaker 2: of narratives where it was a narrative that he was
Speaker 2: upset because Big knew what was going on. It's supposed
Speaker 2: to be your city. But then when you think about it,
Speaker 2: Pop and most of his entorize was theoretically initially from
Speaker 2: these coasts, so they have relationships with a ton of
Speaker 2: people from the East Coast as well. Right, Yeah, I've
Speaker 2: told friends and certain friends in private. This is the
Speaker 2: first time I'm saying it in public, and obviously it's
Speaker 2: gonna be rough for me because people saw Tupac must
Speaker 2: die and they made that this huge thing, like as
Speaker 2: if I have a campaign against Tupac versus me doing
Speaker 2: what I do great, which is explaining gangbanging. That's my
Speaker 2: job to translate gangbanging, right, People felt that Tupac, like
Speaker 2: at that time, Biggie, had something to do with his
Speaker 2: shooting at Qua Studios. The the general interpretation of the
Speaker 2: public was that Biggie set him up, That's why he
Speaker 2: made who shot you. Then you had the other people
Speaker 2: that were saying what you were saying, which is, well,
Speaker 2: he didn't.
Speaker 1: Quite know like he should have.
Speaker 2: If you the King of New York, how you didn't know,
Speaker 2: which that could have been something POC misled.
Speaker 1: People also were saying. But the reality is.
Speaker 2: And like can say it now with facts and faith,
Speaker 2: they knew what happened with Tupac.
Speaker 1: M they knew Tupac knew what happened.
Speaker 2: I think if the laws actually talk about it, they
Speaker 2: knew what happened everybody around If you was dealing with
Speaker 2: Pac at that time, and I don't think our laws
Speaker 2: was dealing with Pack at that time, but I knew
Speaker 2: they knew what happened at that point when they came around,
Speaker 2: they knew what happened.
Speaker 1: That Tupac had nothing to do with Big at all.
Speaker 3: Okay, so this was an isolated incident that had nothing
Speaker 3: to do with Biggie.
Speaker 2: This is about POC's relationship with another power figure in
Speaker 2: New York. Okay, you know what I mean, and some
Speaker 2: business or to some dealings that went bad to some degree.
Speaker 2: That's what happened, and they know it, and Tupac knew it.
Speaker 2: But I've told my friend this and it hurts his feelings.
Speaker 2: Shout out to my boy Ron run out the Raymonds.
Speaker 2: Good dude, good brother, really smart, real financial savvy brother.
Speaker 2: But I always would tell him, I'm like Pac went
Speaker 2: to jail, And if you look at his book list
Speaker 2: when he went to prison, Pac didn't go into prison
Speaker 2: upset that big.
Speaker 1: I mean, you could add, but he wasn't. He wasn't
Speaker 1: upset that big in prison.
Speaker 2: But if you look at Pok's booklests, at that time,
Speaker 2: Poc realized how beef worked, how war work, how financially
Speaker 2: valuable it was to be at war.
Speaker 3: So was this so you you think that was a
Speaker 3: market employee from too one.
Speaker 1: Hundred and seventeen percent.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, the marketing genius came out of him exactly.
Speaker 1: And that's the crazy part.
Speaker 2: As I'm telling my homie, he's like he felt like again,
Speaker 2: like when I explained Tupaca much, he felt like it
Speaker 2: was a disc and I'm like, it's not. This speaks
Speaker 2: to Tupac's brilliance of him understanding how to create a
Speaker 2: crazy situation, you know what I mean, and make it
Speaker 2: profitable and launch him into the you know, launch him
Speaker 2: out of the solar system as far as it. Stardom
Speaker 2: goes like he it was over. And the more you
Speaker 2: think about it. With Clark Kit being upset, I understand why.
Speaker 2: But I also get that Tupac knew as long as
Speaker 2: he was alive, nothing was going to happen to Big,
Speaker 2: So he can allow the marketing strategy to work perfect.
Speaker 2: He can allow the marketing strategy to be everything he
Speaker 2: wanted it to be because he knew nothing would happen
Speaker 2: to be death Row and bad Boy ran into each
Speaker 2: other two or three times. No nobody even scratched each other,
Speaker 2: nobody even pinched each other. Ever, just a bunch of
Speaker 2: yelling and theatrics for the camera, but nobody when they
Speaker 2: met face to face. If it was on, they would
Speaker 2: a squabble because death Row was notoriously known for squabbles
Speaker 2: and bad Boy had a history of doing a thing too,
Speaker 2: so they ran into each other multiple times. Matter of fact,
Speaker 2: one of the last interviews, Tupac was talking about the
Speaker 2: fact when Tupac and Snoop was sitting next to each other,
Speaker 2: they were talking about the fact that Bad Boy was
Speaker 2: gonna be here, and they were saying, like, it's nothing
Speaker 2: to really worry about. But the energy that was going
Speaker 2: on with records at the time, and the conversation that
Speaker 2: the mainstream media and you know, Vibe and everybody was creating,
Speaker 2: you would have thought it had to be on when they.
Speaker 1: Seen each other.
Speaker 2: This is no Sinner's gl My man Pete in the
Speaker 2: spot I Got My Boy Tone Tone one of the
Speaker 2: greatest podcasts coming out of the West. Thank representative, amazing brother, funny, hilarious,
Speaker 2: and I know a little something about boxing do his thing, man,
Speaker 2: but really, more than anything and amazing personality.
Speaker 1: Give me really dope power. Coo sel Vibe.
Speaker 2: So I just turned you onto somebody that's new. That's amazing.
Speaker 2: So y'all gotta get with.
Speaker 3: Him, man, salute man, appreciate that.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 2: So back to the point, I genuinely I know it
Speaker 2: was a marketing strategy. Now, I know you thinks Big
Speaker 2: was on it, on it not Big. See, Big never participated.
Speaker 3: Oh so it was Big yelling like, man, like this
Speaker 3: is cap like this is that's the.
Speaker 1: Whole time Big was saying that.
Speaker 2: Big the whole time was like man, this is bullshit,
Speaker 2: Like this is being alive at the time.
Speaker 1: You know, I was in high school at the time.
Speaker 1: It's like Big like this bullshit.
Speaker 2: Like Big never dissed him, Like Big probably made this
Speaker 2: is and thought about participating and thought about trying, but
Speaker 2: he realized he couldn't feed into it.
Speaker 4: Mm.
Speaker 2: But Big whole narrative the whole time, Like man, that
Speaker 2: shit bullshit. I don't know what the fuck is wrong?
Speaker 1: Puff?
Speaker 2: Now, Puff played into some of these things. So Puff
Speaker 2: Puff dropped who shot you with certain things at times
Speaker 2: strategically to benefit off of what was going on on
Speaker 2: the streets. But I don't think Puff saw it. Ass Now,
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is puff idea. But because
Speaker 2: he's over the label. I know that it's going through
Speaker 2: him for the decision. It's not even going through Big
Speaker 2: as much for the decision. Puff is running bad boy
Speaker 2: at the time. So even if someone else came up
Speaker 2: with the idea to drop who Shot You after Pop
Speaker 2: got shot, that's not that's nothing to do with Big
Speaker 2: because they had already Premier said they already did the song.
Speaker 3: So they were wrecked before.
Speaker 2: It wasn't Who Shot You is not about Pop, Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: it was just dropped.
Speaker 1: Around that time, so it became ominous. But Big really
Speaker 1: gets a lot.
Speaker 2: Of slack from it from real pop true fans, believing
Speaker 2: that like he wrote the song because of something to
Speaker 2: do with Pop, and it's like it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It was really literally just Big.
Speaker 2: Rapping and then somebody a bad boy decided this would
Speaker 2: be an opportune time to drop the song.
Speaker 3: Marketing, marketing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And that's what I think Pop understood when he came
Speaker 2: home from prison. He changed his marketing strategy. So I
Speaker 2: genuinely think there were real facets of that East Coast
Speaker 2: West Coast shit, right. I know, Death Row Sugar Puff
Speaker 2: had some issues, you know what I mean over what
Speaker 2: happened to Jake from Campanella. He got killed in Atlanta,
Speaker 2: and you know, whatever happened, it was supposed to be
Speaker 2: close to the Bad Boy Camp. I don't quite know
Speaker 2: the whole I can find out, but I just really
Speaker 2: kind of want to mind my business on that. The
Speaker 2: situation that happened with Snoop and tray D and the
Speaker 2: Dog Pound and them going to New York and word
Speaker 2: was Biggie. You know, they felt that the song was
Speaker 2: a New York disc What the New York Big City? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: they were shooting the video in New York.
Speaker 3: He stumped the buildings.
Speaker 1: That's so, this is the tricky part. Yes, so what
Speaker 1: the Dog Pound?
Speaker 2: What corrupt says is that wasn't the initial direction of
Speaker 2: the video. Now I don't know if it's true or not.
Speaker 2: They said the video was something different. The goal was
Speaker 2: to have all the New York legends come down and
Speaker 2: show love to them. But somewhere along the line, word
Speaker 2: was I've never heard the video. I heard, I mean
Speaker 2: the audio, but I heard it exists on the radio
Speaker 2: where Big called into the radio station and said, yo, y'all,
Speaker 2: let these niggas come to New York in disrespect all
Speaker 2: niggas trip and blah blah blah, and that's what led
Speaker 2: to the video shoot kind of being shot up at least.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: I think there were subdual hints of what was going
Speaker 2: on between the East and West, but I think the
Speaker 2: people within could manage it. But when Pac saw all
Speaker 2: of this and was aware of all of this stuff happening,
Speaker 2: he looked at it like a marketing opportunity to launch
Speaker 2: himself above the game. I genuinely believe that whole shit
Speaker 2: was marketing.
Speaker 3: Dang, But yeah, Pac always said he knew how to
Speaker 3: sell records, and that was it was equally beneficial for
Speaker 3: both parties because it made Biggie bigger and it made
Speaker 3: both of.
Speaker 1: Them tears down.
Speaker 2: But Biggie just didn't participate. Okay, big was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I ain't. This shit looked crazy. I remember seeing interviews
Speaker 2: with him at the time, like nah. But genuinely, this
Speaker 2: was all a marketing strategy, And that's why there was
Speaker 2: never no real shit between them that happened, because everything
Speaker 2: that was real some shit happened, Like when Luke was
Speaker 2: beefing with death Row, they actually had a fight. Oh damn,
Speaker 2: easy E was going at it with death Row Ruthless
Speaker 2: and death Row Above the Law and death Row had
Speaker 2: a fight, like people, you're gonna see each other and
Speaker 2: you'll have your time to squabble, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So the fact that death Row and bad Boy would
Speaker 2: see each other and not fight confirmed to my logic
Speaker 2: that it was just marketing.
Speaker 1: There was an interview I saw where Pop even.
Speaker 2: Said it was like, I think it was a part
Speaker 2: of a lost interview. I'm not sure which one, but
Speaker 2: they were talking asking him about what could you do
Speaker 2: in the future, could you and Big work in the future,
Speaker 2: and he just was like, yeah, that wouldn't be no problem,
Speaker 2: feel me longest day, blah blah blah, you know, and
Speaker 2: you could just tell at that.
Speaker 1: Point his plan had worked and he.
Speaker 2: Always saw a way out of it. He always saw
Speaker 2: a way out of it. Yeah, I mean, he always
Speaker 2: knew he could end it when he wanted to. And
Speaker 2: I think part of that is because he saw when you
Speaker 2: say that, well, because once he realized Big wouldn't get involved,
Speaker 2: like Big would only say subdue things like Big was
Speaker 2: not going to participate. Big was not going to drop
Speaker 2: his own version to hit him up. Big was not
Speaker 2: going to get involved, and drop this song with him,
Speaker 2: so he realized he won the situation and he could
Speaker 2: end it when he wanted to and come together and
Speaker 2: make records with him.
Speaker 1: He talked about it. You just got a YouTube and
Speaker 1: you'll find an interview. But it's really dope.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I always wondered why Biggie never got busy on pop.
Speaker 3: It's not like he couldn't like Big. He was phenomenal,
Speaker 3: But I was like, was it just purely Diddy? Like, nah,
Speaker 3: just stay away from that.
Speaker 2: I don't think Puff could have told Big at that
Speaker 2: time to not drop a d I think even if
Speaker 2: Puff wouldn't have put it out through the label, it
Speaker 2: would have came through the streets.
Speaker 1: So I think with them Big it had.
Speaker 2: To be something that makes him say, man, I'm not
Speaker 2: even gonna participate. You know, I would love to talk
Speaker 2: to Sees or or somebody next time. Matter of fact,
Speaker 2: we're gonna do a part two on our August seas
Speaker 2: and get Sees or Gutter or somebody who was around
Speaker 2: him at that time to talk about why he didn't
Speaker 2: ever get involved. But I knew he had to make
Speaker 2: a conscious decision to never release anything. I'm sure in
Speaker 2: the studio Becuz got some shit, he asked some shit
Speaker 2: lined up, you know what I mean? As MC, you
Speaker 2: start to pin shit immediately. I mean, but why he
Speaker 2: didn't ever participate is a different story.
Speaker 3: But do you think he recorded because on the the
Speaker 3: jay Z reasonable that album with I think it's Brooklyn's finest.
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite songs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Biggie was like, if they pad twins, she probably
Speaker 2: like that was the closest he would entertain it. Right,
Speaker 2: Like I've heard stories from people like as I start
Speaker 2: to you know, kind of search throughout this conversation and
Speaker 2: throughout this situation here, people say going back to Cali
Speaker 2: as a disc record, that can't be a disrespectful record. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean people felt like Big made the worst decision
Speaker 2: coming back to California six months after Pop got killed. Right,
Speaker 2: But it's like, if you didn't have anything to do
Speaker 2: with it, you know what I'm saying, I would imagine
Speaker 2: you wouldn't be worried about it. Now as a gang member,
Speaker 2: I would think about it differently because I know Niggas
Speaker 2: is looking at me as a prime suspect. I know
Speaker 2: Niggas is retarded, right, So you know I knew niggas
Speaker 2: would have attitude even like no matter how you look
Speaker 2: at it, you size it up even you know.
Speaker 4: It's an interesting question. Go ahead, like you think in La,
Speaker 4: like god like, like anybody in LA that would actually
Speaker 4: be with the shit enough to do that wasn't conscious
Speaker 4: of what really went on to a degree or was
Speaker 4: that detached from reality to actually say I'm gonna go
Speaker 4: get it.
Speaker 1: You're seeing what happened with Big. Yeah, big Ship was
Speaker 1: a hit though.
Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying, though, Like I'm not saying no, no,
Speaker 4: I'm not saying in response to what happened with Pac,
Speaker 4: the mentality of people who really on the streets in
Speaker 4: LA were not perceiving that you'd be way out in
Speaker 4: the suburbs. They perceived, oh yeah, bad boy took out Pac.
Speaker 4: I don't know, is it vib All the guys from
Speaker 4: from Inglewood like really thought, oh man, no, we're gonna
Speaker 4: go get Bigger. We see him, we gonna get him.
Speaker 2: Did we think initially like right, so at this point
Speaker 2: I'm fut fair selling dope, I'm in high.
Speaker 1: School, gang bang and whatever, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: No, none of us thought what happened with Big had
Speaker 2: anything to do with what happened to Pac had anything
Speaker 2: to do with Big None of us thought that we actually,
Speaker 2: in real time knew that they got into it the
Speaker 2: South Sides and they had junked.
Speaker 1: On Baby Lane.
Speaker 2: So everyone pretty much put two and two together, and
Speaker 2: it's soon still an assumption that you know, the South's
Speaker 2: got at pop over what they did the Baby Lane.
Speaker 4: And I'm from yeah, I say, you feel that extended
Speaker 4: all the way to Inglewood or to the schools or
Speaker 4: like the whole you know, like the other side of it, like.
Speaker 2: Or because you are pretty so people in the street life,
Speaker 2: we probably all was on the same brainwave, okay, but
Speaker 2: I do think there were I mean when I went
Speaker 2: to school, people thought that people who are not in
Speaker 2: the know of street life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was some people was like, oh man did
Speaker 1: pay the South Sides.
Speaker 2: And then later on Keith Keivy D from the South
Speaker 2: is this og legend d boy nigga like super legendary figure.
Speaker 1: You know, he does interviews now you can go check
Speaker 1: him out, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: He like, I see a lot of people saying shit
Speaker 2: to him because he's doing these interviews. But Keith D
Speaker 2: was really one of those guys, is I hung the
Speaker 2: fuck with? Nobody said about him, like you knew his name,
Speaker 2: Wren Jail's. He had money, he had cars, he had bitches,
Speaker 2: and he had power, like you knew who keithy Dee was. Like,
Speaker 2: So I hear a lot of the slander, but that
Speaker 2: shit ain't in real time because that motherfucker had a
Speaker 2: reputation and motherfucker's respect to is get in. But he
Speaker 2: came out with a book in promoting it saying that
Speaker 2: that Puff paid the South Sides or offered a bounty
Speaker 2: on POC for it. So that really changed a lot
Speaker 2: of perspective, still not in the streets, but to everybody
Speaker 2: else in mainstream media or who saw the content that
Speaker 2: Keith was putting up. Do I think that's real? I
Speaker 2: think Keith is writing books, so he's in the entertainment.
Speaker 2: I think he's doing interview, so part of it is entertainment.
Speaker 2: I think he's making it a lot more sensational than
Speaker 2: it is because.
Speaker 1: It is a book, right.
Speaker 2: I figured if he would have went to court and
Speaker 2: told the faes that that they paid they paid him
Speaker 2: to do it, it'd be a real case for Puff now.
Speaker 2: So that's why I don't believe he went into the
Speaker 2: courthouse and told them, hey, man, bad boy, put out
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, because murder for hire is gonna come
Speaker 2: back for you, straight up. So I don't I don't
Speaker 2: genuinely believe that happened. I don't think he told the
Speaker 2: people that, But I think he put that in the
Speaker 2: book as an entertainment piece because Keith is, you know,
Speaker 2: Keith Is. Keith was historically known as a big D boy.
Speaker 2: So I would imagine a lot of the D boys
Speaker 2: that I'm seeing from the streets are trying to find
Speaker 2: another way to create income, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: based off their experiences. So I think he is writing books,
Speaker 2: and I do think he has no problem, like any
Speaker 2: other great writer.
Speaker 1: To include fantasy.
Speaker 2: But I think all of us in the streets at
Speaker 2: that time kind of knew what it was over, Like,
Speaker 2: we all knew what it was over, Yeah, liked Did
Speaker 2: Pap do anything to like quiet the noise of the
Speaker 2: streets or was he just like because at what what
Speaker 2: point of his career was he at before the Quad
Speaker 2: City Show? I know he had just did Juice, but musically,
Speaker 2: was he the number one artist in the world at
Speaker 2: that time.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, hell no. Pack was like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is so, this is after thug Life.
Speaker 2: Thug Life was something that was cool, like niggas fucked
Speaker 2: with thug Life. Thug Life is a platinum group and
Speaker 2: it was based out of La. You know, all the
Speaker 2: niggas was from Rolling forty Crip or Cype from IBC,
Speaker 2: from Inglewood, you know, Imperial Village, Inglewood Crips. So his
Speaker 2: whole group of thug Life was La guys around the way.
Speaker 4: Would you say from a time frames standpoint that PAC's
Speaker 4: musical presence got the California love was the trampoline?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well so.
Speaker 4: That's that's the Old Testament New Testament defining moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's weird, right because I had that conversation on
Speaker 2: the Breakfast Club with Charlottagne and them, and I was
Speaker 2: explaining to them, pre all Eyes on Me, Tupac wasn't
Speaker 2: in the same category as ice Cube.
Speaker 1: Cube was a greater act as a.
Speaker 2: Musician and as a movie star pre death ro you know,
Speaker 2: pre all Eyes on Me. So this is with him
Speaker 2: having the number one record in the country when he's
Speaker 2: in jail with you know, me against the world, like
Speaker 2: Cube was huge. So it was people comparing them to Snoop,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, they wasn't even in the same plan.
Speaker 2: Snoop was like a phenomenon. Yeah, Snoop is like Snoop
Speaker 2: and fifty Cent are probably the greatest you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like debuts in the history of music as
Speaker 2: far as you know, first album debut. Yeah, just debut
Speaker 2: period because fifty had power of a dollar. He had
Speaker 2: singles and other stuff before. But like you had never
Speaker 2: seen nothing like Snoop Dogg. The closest is fifty Cent,
Speaker 2: like you never seen, like look at Snoop Dogg now.
Speaker 2: And this is what this goes back to that point
Speaker 2: where I was explaining, like Snoop was a phenomenon. Snoop
Speaker 2: was like a renaissance all by himself. You remember in
Speaker 2: school when they be talking about the Italian renners, like
Speaker 2: Snoop was that by himself, Like death Row comes together
Speaker 2: and they create the greatest renaissance in all arts, you know,
Speaker 2: greater than Shakespeare, greater than any of that stuff over
Speaker 2: there when it was painting in Italy, Like this thing
Speaker 2: became such a phenomenon globally, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like cripping is where it's at because.
Speaker 1: Of Snoop Dogg. Solely.
Speaker 2: The reason is around the country, the reason people felt
Speaker 2: comfortable to even crip on records later or felt that
Speaker 2: they pressure.
Speaker 1: There were people in hip hop who felt that they
Speaker 1: was like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not a gang member until Snoop happened, and
Speaker 2: then they was like people start looking like gang members.
Speaker 1: That's real. Yeah wasn't.
Speaker 4: And you said, it's fair to say it went from
Speaker 4: being almost a deal breaker to get signed by somebody
Speaker 4: to make exact yes.
Speaker 2: You like, it's almost expected in LA that you are
Speaker 2: from somewhere solely because of Snoop Dogg. And I know
Speaker 2: that sounds crazy, but it's true, bro, Like Snoop is
Speaker 2: is trail blazing. Snoop is blazing a trail so fucking crazy,
Speaker 2: like just what he's doing for cripping, Like, and I'm
Speaker 2: being honest, like for doors that I can walk through
Speaker 2: and just be a crip, it's because of Snoop Dogg.
Speaker 2: Like I don't have to not be a crip. Like
Speaker 2: everybody is not losing their mind because I walk there.
Speaker 2: Now it's like it's cool, maybe he's cool like Snoop.
Speaker 3: Wow, so so all time, all time, Glasses and Pete,
Speaker 3: do you think all time Snoop is more popular than
Speaker 3: Tupac all time popular, all time?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Popularity sure, Okay, popularity yeah.
Speaker 4: I think the passion index for Tupac is higher. I
Speaker 4: think that the scope of Snoop is bigger.
Speaker 2: I think I think Tupac can go down as a
Speaker 2: greater artist, Okay, like an impactful kind of person, Like
Speaker 2: his life was such an amazing yet tragic story that
Speaker 2: it's gonna always be hard to.
Speaker 1: Competele Snoop is.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's only a handful of people more famous
Speaker 2: than Snoop, you know what I mean, Mickey Mouse, Jesus,
Speaker 2: it's not a lot of people, Michael Jackson. There's gonna
Speaker 2: be very few people that's more famous.
Speaker 1: You got to I mean, you got Snoop up there
Speaker 1: with Jesus, Like Snoop.
Speaker 3: Is close.
Speaker 2: Jesus, right, Snoop is close, Like he's not up there
Speaker 2: with Jesus, but he's really close, Like he's not far
Speaker 2: behind Mickey MOUs Jess Like Snoop is a different kind
Speaker 2: of phenomenon, man, Snoop. What's crazy is Snoop shows you
Speaker 2: the power of hip hop, Like that that's that's hip hop,
Speaker 2: glaring testimony of how great the street urban influence can be.
Speaker 2: Where you have Snoop Dogg and it's like he's on
Speaker 2: the super Bowl chunking of sea sea.
Speaker 1: Walking smoking weed.
Speaker 3: How like glasses in Pete, how is he able to
Speaker 3: do that? How is he able to commercialize gang banging
Speaker 3: and cripping to where he could be on the stage
Speaker 3: with Martha Stewart cooking delicious hams and like.
Speaker 1: He could he could do like Leonardo da Vinci dog.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It doesn't Pete, you have it. I
Speaker 1: don't know. You tell me, Pete.
Speaker 2: I just feel like some things are just in people,
Speaker 2: Like Snoop is not a super great marketing strategy. He
Speaker 2: is a marketing strategy, don't get me wrong. No no
Speaker 2: credit away from Shure, no credit away from Drake. But
Speaker 2: what's in him, it's just unique. It's like something that
Speaker 2: you can't make it. I remember talking to Snoop about
Speaker 2: something briefly and telling him you couldn't make another artist
Speaker 2: like you, like, it's not possible.
Speaker 1: Yah.
Speaker 4: I don't think he doesn't have a strategy. People strategize
Speaker 4: around his brand. It's a different system. I mean Tupac
Speaker 4: was a guy with a strategy who didn't have a brand.
Speaker 4: Snoop was a guy with a brand who didn't have
Speaker 4: a strategy.
Speaker 1: Exactly. That's actually I would say that say that again.
Speaker 4: Tupac was a guy with no brand who had a strategy,
Speaker 4: and Snoop was a guy with a brand who had
Speaker 4: no strategy.
Speaker 2: Tupac changed his brand a couple times. Tupac's initial brand
Speaker 2: was like black panther and militant. As far as his movement,
Speaker 2: Tupac became slowly started making itself into like kind of
Speaker 2: what gangster rap.
Speaker 4: Is he turned I'll say this much. We I'm very
Speaker 4: comfortable saying there would never have been a blood face
Speaker 4: with Tupac if Snoop didn't exist. All put money on that.
Speaker 4: There wouldn't have been a need for it, the costs,
Speaker 4: but if it, analysis wouldn't have existed. There's no business.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 2: A lot of people look at Snoop, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, really like that's just such a phenomenon. Man,
Speaker 2: he really is a renaissance all by himself, and like
Speaker 2: it's just kind of unique to see it, Like it's
Speaker 2: it's really special to be alive at this time and
Speaker 2: see what he's doing with something that's super like he's
Speaker 2: he's been successful at things that John Gotty couldn't do,
Speaker 2: Like John Gotty couldn't do this. The only person that's
Speaker 2: close to doing with Snoop, like Al Capone couldn't do
Speaker 2: what Snoop is doing, like any other person that's that's
Speaker 2: a product of the underworld and crime.
Speaker 1: I know that sounds crazy.
Speaker 2: They're not Snoop like the movie Scarface with al Pacino
Speaker 2: is not fince.
Speaker 1: Like. He's actually living it all the way out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's definitely transcending the culture definitely. Why do you
Speaker 3: think why do you think it's so hard for like,
Speaker 3: because like in hip hop, you can you can have
Speaker 3: like a like somebody could try to be a jay
Speaker 3: Z kind of like mimic like say Drake. But why
Speaker 3: is it so hard for a second coming of artists
Speaker 3: like Snoop and Tupac Because when they try to mimic them,
Speaker 3: it looks just corny, Like you just are they just
Speaker 3: too polarized? How come there's net like we can't even
Speaker 3: have that second tier like fake Snoop or a fake Pop.
Speaker 2: So this is what's crazy right now. And I've talked
Speaker 2: to you about this in regards to Arizona hip hop,
Speaker 2: right right?
Speaker 1: Hip hop? Like now, it's hard because people don't get this.
Speaker 2: But if you if you really do, if you do
Speaker 2: the work on the on the equation that is hip hop,
Speaker 2: it really breaks down into urban street culture. Urban being
Speaker 2: Disney populated, street being places you know, written by crime,
Speaker 2: I mean Disney populated, crime written areas, the culture in
Speaker 2: those areas.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: What's hard to be where Snoop is the main thing
Speaker 2: is because culture has already been overexposed. Like one thing
Speaker 2: that made Snoop a phenomenon is remember Los Angeles street
Speaker 2: urban culture was starting to be cinema like it was
Speaker 2: starting to be on cinema Colors, Boys in the Hood.
Speaker 2: You you saw Rocket. You know, Colors is not about
Speaker 2: gang members. Colors is about police, police officers, their relationship
Speaker 2: and dealing with gang members in the field. Boys in
Speaker 2: the Hood is not about gang members. It's about black
Speaker 2: fathers raising their children and what it's like for somebody
Speaker 2: else who doesn't have a black father. But saw these
Speaker 2: super special characters Rocket dough Boy, where.
Speaker 1: You was like, damn, that shit is real, it exists.
Speaker 1: Snoop came and voice those characters. He became the voice
Speaker 1: like Jay Z voiced Nino Brown.
Speaker 3: Okay, dang, I don't even think.
Speaker 2: Remember R Street urban culture didn't have a true voice.
Speaker 2: We were always the side piece to decide this to
Speaker 2: another main course. The main course of New Jack City
Speaker 2: is it's a police film about trying to solve the
Speaker 2: crack epidemic.
Speaker 1: Facts, and then you got Nino Brown right there.
Speaker 2: Rick Ross became a voice for Scarface the actual movie
Speaker 2: Lean and Suit No Nobody sell drugs and fucking Miami
Speaker 2: and wear no fucking Lenen suits.
Speaker 1: That's from the film. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And I was saying, like the time frame wise, like
Speaker 4: like New York hoodlums, you know, whatever it was was
Speaker 4: a term like in like the nineteen seven pre hip
Speaker 4: hop you know, you know, you go get mugged in
Speaker 4: the in the subway and ship like that, the movie Warriors,
Speaker 4: all that kind of crap, Like people were conscious of
Speaker 4: what Marlem was and the stuff like that. Before that,
Speaker 4: there was the geography of Los Angeles didn't pass through
Speaker 4: Compton haphazardly. You had to go you have to have
Speaker 4: to try to go to Compton, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: So I think that also it pulled the curtain back
Speaker 4: on a large portion of a city that everywhere else
Speaker 4: perceived as why, it's a lot of maybe a little
Speaker 4: hair metal bands like Guns and Rows and some cocaine,
Speaker 4: a little bit of movie stars, and some beaches and surfers.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's and and to add on to
Speaker 2: his point that that's why it's like culture in these
Speaker 2: huge metropolises are not They're already over exposed, like you
Speaker 2: have to be the face. Snoop Dogg is the face
Speaker 2: of probably American's greatest street urban culture, cripping gang Bang.
Speaker 1: That's shit is like global.
Speaker 2: Okay, now there's there's gangs as people who have met
Speaker 2: me that have tried to add sections of my gang
Speaker 2: onto their streets in fucking Canada.
Speaker 1: I'm not lying.
Speaker 4: Well, there's a page that for some reason I keep
Speaker 4: getting like I liked the car one time. Well, no,
Speaker 4: all the low riders in Okinawa, yeah is that what
Speaker 4: they were called?
Speaker 1: And it's all in Japan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like when I did my tour over there with
Speaker 2: Dazz the first two times, Like the parking lot of
Speaker 2: be filled with low riders in Japan, Damn every like
Speaker 2: not this Okanawa, like Tokyo, like all over them.
Speaker 4: I just happened to others, and Okanawa was even like
Speaker 4: its own unique thing with Japan.
Speaker 2: So it's like, I think street urban culture was being
Speaker 2: revealed from first person from hip hop at that time,
Speaker 2: as far as cripping and the culture itself is a phenomenon,
Speaker 2: and Snoop was the face of it.
Speaker 1: Jay Z was the for he was the face of
Speaker 1: New York drug dealer.
Speaker 2: You know, you heard stories about Nicki Barnes. You saw
Speaker 2: movies about different people like he's saying.
Speaker 1: You've seen the street life, you know, the warriors and
Speaker 1: ship like you've seen that ship.
Speaker 4: That's what made I think New York and l a different.
Speaker 4: Nikki Barnes was on the cover of Time, Magnet. Fuck,
Speaker 4: it was a decade before anybody heard of jay Z
Speaker 4: and then Freeway Rick wasn't on the cover of Shit
Speaker 4: before Snoop was rolling down Crenshaw.
Speaker 1: Which is crazy, which is why LA drug dealing.
Speaker 2: What's crazy is we have in Los Angeles probably the
Speaker 2: wealthiest drug dealers in the history of urban drug dealer.
Speaker 2: But because there was no president set for people to
Speaker 2: be interested, they don't care about New York LA drug dealing.
Speaker 2: Like Snowfalls is not as big as American Gangster and Freeway.
Speaker 2: Rick made way more money than Frank Luke, is way
Speaker 2: more money than Nicky Barnes.
Speaker 3: Why wasn't it like marketed that way, because like like
Speaker 3: you got the Supreme Team and then you got Nikki Bonds.
Speaker 2: Genuinely, I think I think urban drug dealing is started
Speaker 2: in New York. It was already spoken for and represented
Speaker 2: like at the highest level.
Speaker 4: And culturally, there was already a cinematic monopoly in New
Speaker 4: York for crime. That was the Italian Mafia Facts m
Speaker 4: So that.
Speaker 2: Was Austin too, all that whole top of the East
Speaker 2: Coast up there. So it's those things like that where
Speaker 2: it's like it's tough, you know what I'm saying, It's tough,
Speaker 2: Like it's it's it's hard for people to catch up
Speaker 2: with Snoop and Too. I think artists are just as
Speaker 2: talented as Snoop Dogg and Tupac, And I think there
Speaker 2: are producers that are pretty good that can keep up,
Speaker 2: you know, if nothing else hell, the producers around that
Speaker 2: produce those guys are.
Speaker 1: Still around, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But I think, like like Peter Sin, we don't have
Speaker 2: the same, Like what would be that right now? The
Speaker 2: greatest street urban culture in LA right now is flocking
Speaker 2: cat burglars, like burglary burglarising houses. Okay, but there's no
Speaker 2: film about it. I get no colors for flocking.
Speaker 1: There's no always in the hood for flocking.
Speaker 3: The YG kind of like on his first album, kind
Speaker 3: of like put that what it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he gave a voice to this culture of
Speaker 2: people that was burglarizing houses in La flockers, and that's
Speaker 2: what Wag really got popular for in street urban culture
Speaker 2: outside of just jerking and dancing.
Speaker 4: And I'm not sure that there's so much of a
Speaker 4: uniqueness for burglarizing houses in La versus in comparison to
Speaker 4: like LA putting a brand on a drive by shooting
Speaker 4: that was maybe a little bit more.
Speaker 2: For the component LA driven the components of it was,
Speaker 2: which is crazy because they've been had dropped, like oh,
Speaker 2: Mafia's been doing dry bags. But we put this name
Speaker 2: on it. And I don't think we put the name
Speaker 2: on it. I think they put a name on it
Speaker 2: and made it popular for us, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: But yeah, YG is definitely the face of that. But
Speaker 2: that face also didn't have mass representation before yg Versus
Speaker 2: Rock Colors was a big movie you had. It was
Speaker 2: casting really well, it it did really well. Boys in
Speaker 2: the Hood did sixty seventy million dollars, like you know
Speaker 2: what I mean Like this, It's like some of these
Speaker 2: films were like mainstream appeal joints, so you could even
Speaker 2: though you know, it was more about Trey growing up
Speaker 2: with his father versus his mom, right according to Black Fathers,
Speaker 2: you got a hint of dough Boy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even though.
Speaker 2: Rocket is about Robert Duval and Sean Penn and that shit,
Speaker 2: you got a hint of a rocket, you know, played
Speaker 2: by one of the greatest black actors ever.
Speaker 4: It's so funny. The line I remember from that movie
Speaker 4: that pops up into my head about probably once every
Speaker 4: thirty six hours is from my favorite character Frog when
Speaker 4: they take him it and they say, hey, you want
Speaker 4: us to raise her bell I got more time than
Speaker 4: money homes. I'm like, that is how I decided. That
Speaker 4: is the philosophy behind my present day air travel strategy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my favorite is from t Rogers Recupe why Pat
Speaker 2: Man fucking with me?
Speaker 1: What Pat Man on me? Man?
Speaker 2: Rogers at the Jungle that was his line. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like I think it's a phenomenon as they started
Speaker 2: making it a side dish of let's say, the main
Speaker 2: course is you know, the police.
Speaker 1: Or Black Fathers.
Speaker 2: The side dish was that street urban culture. We haven't
Speaker 2: had a great street urban culture movie in a long time,
Speaker 2: I mean not based out of the West, like not
Speaker 2: based out of the West, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And so therefore hip hop there's there's no there's no
Speaker 2: there's no uh trail blazed that you could walk through. Now,
Speaker 2: whatever you're doing, you have to kind of line it up.
Speaker 2: So that's why it's hard for hip hop to take
Speaker 2: that next step like they did initially with Snoop.
Speaker 1: Big, because Big was a drug dealer too.
Speaker 2: On his records, you know, he was he was like
Speaker 2: like like Pece said, he was a hooligan. He was
Speaker 2: a hulium and that already had representation, maybe just not
Speaker 2: as in the black space.
Speaker 3: So like like Kendrick, was that more of like a
Speaker 3: West Coast version of Knives, like the kid looking at
Speaker 3: his window explaining stuff that's going on in the hood,
Speaker 3: or is it like.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think dodd situation is unique because
Speaker 2: so dot also came at a time when college kids
Speaker 2: were pretty much this this this when college kids were
Speaker 2: deciding what was going to be shared in hip hop. Okay,
Speaker 2: so when the blog era happened, the blogs were started
Speaker 2: by college kids. You know, rap radar, uh, all these
Speaker 2: different blogs, a ton of blogs by college kids. Kids
Speaker 2: in college, you know what I'm saying, And they're like,
Speaker 2: what hip hop appeals to them?
Speaker 1: Hence you have Drake, j Cole, Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that yeah. College.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: College.
Speaker 4: Though, Like I don't know, I get it and I don't.
Speaker 4: I get that and I don't get it at the
Speaker 4: same time.
Speaker 1: What don't you get?
Speaker 4: Like I understand wanting to listen to someone that might
Speaker 4: be a little bit more relatable to you, I guess,
Speaker 4: But at the same time, I want to hear someone
Speaker 4: who's more different than me. It's more interesting. M M.
Speaker 4: I don't want to hear from the guy who saw
Speaker 4: the guy. I want to hear from the guy.
Speaker 1: Well that's the tricky part.
Speaker 2: Like I don't think J Cole, Drake or Kendrick in
Speaker 2: Charles Hamilton because he was a part of that class.
Speaker 2: I don't think they pitched themselves as the guys like
Speaker 2: Dodd's first album is very much somebody that was involved
Speaker 2: with bullshit and admitting it. But I think he framed
Speaker 2: his narrative as good kid, and I think that made
Speaker 2: it understandable, like, oh maybe if I lived in this neighborhood,
Speaker 2: this could be my life. So that was a relatable
Speaker 2: piece maybe for you know what I'm saying. J Cole
Speaker 2: was somebody who went to college and quit Childi's chase
Speaker 2: his dreams. Yeah, sure, most of those kids could relate
Speaker 2: to that ship.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It's a It is somebody who were them but put
Speaker 2: in different situations, and that's what it is. So that's
Speaker 2: a big part of what's happening. It's like your street
Speaker 2: urban culture needs to have a precedent, and the reality
Speaker 2: is it's not really creating a ton of new ship
Speaker 2: every week. Like hip hop the way what we call
Speaker 2: hip hop pretty soon is going to become rock and
Speaker 2: roll where it's at now, Oh wow, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: it won't have black faces representing it, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: Like rock and roll. We'll move on to something else
Speaker 1: most likely, and that'll be the end of it.
Speaker 4: Will it will continue to have black faces representing it,
Speaker 4: and it'll just be in the same way that you
Speaker 4: see some company deliberately go out and get like specific
Speaker 4: box checkers for their commercial campaign. They just understand the marketability.
Speaker 2: I don't know, man R and B right now is
Speaker 2: represented by Dale and Sam Smith at the highest levels. Well,
Speaker 2: you mayn't even call regular black singers R and B
Speaker 2: singers anymore.
Speaker 1: They call them neo souls.
Speaker 2: Yeah, rock and roll was all black, now it's no black.
Speaker 1: Jazz was all black now it's no black.
Speaker 3: So you think we going to Jack Harlow era, that's
Speaker 3: the are we're going to.
Speaker 1: It started with It started with Ya, then he went
Speaker 1: to Drake.
Speaker 2: Now it's that Jack got lighter and lighter until it
Speaker 2: got whiter. See Eminem very much is a product of
Speaker 2: street urban culture. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Just because he's white, he still was a product a
Speaker 2: street urban culture.
Speaker 1: But when when when hip.
Speaker 2: Hop stopped being about the culture itself and it started
Speaker 2: just being about an art by itself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, then who look at who's who's be boing?
Speaker 2: That face is all Asian, Like if you go online
Speaker 2: and look at the Bee Boys, the niggas who popping
Speaker 2: and fucking it up ninety percent is Asian.
Speaker 4: Well what it's been like that for twenty years, but
Speaker 4: likes that's like its own kind of niche. I don't
Speaker 4: even know if that's it's almost like divorce itself from
Speaker 4: hip hopping in the broader sense.
Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying. It's because I tell a
Speaker 2: lot of the legends that I talk to from New
Speaker 2: York this all the time. If you start to make
Speaker 2: it where hip hop is just the art and not
Speaker 2: an expression of street urban culture, of an evolving street
Speaker 2: urban culture, you're gonna write yourself out of it because
Speaker 2: there's gonna be people that's going to teach it. Every
Speaker 2: day on Instagram, I see a new cryptwalking video, like
Speaker 2: Asian person, you know, maybe a Middle Eastern person, maybe
Speaker 2: he's Indian, so that's Asia as well European, and they
Speaker 2: just have crip walking videos. They have crypt neighborhoods. There's
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, So challenge. The one thing
Speaker 2: about everybody else's they're gonna teach a lot of our
Speaker 2: ship is we teach each other. It's one teach one, one,
Speaker 2: one teach another. These motherfuckers will have a class of
Speaker 2: three hundred. Like in Asia, it's gonna be a class
Speaker 2: that three hundred motherfuckers learning how to be boy.
Speaker 4: It's just it's the same way. It's like now there's
Speaker 4: you can go to gyms and they have pole dance
Speaker 4: and these have like like the twenty four face one
Speaker 4: hundred and twenty is to have like some sort of
Speaker 4: like like twerk and some sort of that class on
Speaker 4: Mondays at ten o'clock. Paul got out at ten o'clock.
Speaker 1: Pole Dancing is huge.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't have to be a stripper to pole dance,
Speaker 4: and you ain't gotta be a crypto seawalk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it is.
Speaker 2: It's hard for hip hop to hit that because street
Speaker 2: urban culture, like you you have to be a part
Speaker 2: of you know, it has to be contagious. Cripping, gang
Speaker 2: banging is contagious, super content.
Speaker 1: Why it's huge in La It just spread it everywhere.
Speaker 2: Now it's people who grew up in You grew up
Speaker 2: in Arizona, right, you grew up your whole life. See
Speaker 2: you might have remembered in Arizona when you were really
Speaker 2: young that didn't have Christian bloods. By the time you
Speaker 2: got in high school, that shit was done.
Speaker 3: Yes, it was s cripting bloods.
Speaker 1: And I don't even know. I'm assuming there was. Maybe
Speaker 1: when you was.
Speaker 2: Little, there weren't Crisson bloods. I'm assuming because it might
Speaker 2: have been Christon bloods in Arizona for sure. I know
Speaker 2: for sure they was in the eighties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was in junior I grew up there in
Speaker 3: the seventies. Yeah, junior High. That's when I was introduced
Speaker 3: to crippin In blood.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's like it's people who grew up all
Speaker 1: over the country.
Speaker 2: It's people in New York who are twenty one years
Speaker 2: old that grew up in gangs their whole life, Like
Speaker 2: they live in a gang neighborhood, a crypt or blood neighborhood,
Speaker 2: forgive me their whole life. There's people who grew up
Speaker 2: in Oklahoma. Oklahoma had gang since the eighties, Crimson bloods.
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh had Cripson blood since the eighties. It's forty fucking
Speaker 2: years now. So again, it's one of those things now
Speaker 2: where it's not so culturally niche, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It ain't special no more.
Speaker 2: It was at one time that was just la, that
Speaker 2: was just things around this part of town.
Speaker 1: Now that ship is anywhere where niggas is at.
Speaker 3: You're right.
Speaker 2: I mean it's a couple of places that don't have
Speaker 2: them still, the Bay don't really you know, outside well
Speaker 2: it depends because you know San Jose got Cribson bloods,
Speaker 2: but Oakland still don't. San Francisco still don't.
Speaker 4: Seven all due respect, doesn't have black people anymore.
Speaker 1: That's true. They got them niggas bot there the only
Speaker 1: niggas from Oakland too.
Speaker 4: I mean, like, yeah, ok, every day, man, where they
Speaker 4: put where sack you know, eastward. It's the same as
Speaker 4: like in La A lot of guys go out to
Speaker 4: you know, they're getting bumped into the l and m
Speaker 4: high on the other side of the Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: high desert in the Lampires, the same in the Bear.
Speaker 4: It would be like what Brentley or whatever, Antioch or
Speaker 4: all the way out of anywhere, but there, yeah, fairfields
Speaker 4: on out.
Speaker 3: That's crazy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, they're they're taking back control of the urban
Speaker 1: communities straight up.
Speaker 4: So the first place when I was up there was Pittsburgh, California,
Speaker 4: was the new Richmond two thousand and four. Wow, you know,
Speaker 4: and and it looked like Corona, California to a degree.
Speaker 4: Yeah it's been going on, but like the same thing,
Speaker 4: like like down to a Z. You know a lot
Speaker 4: of guys out of South Side they out in Avondale
Speaker 4: in Goodyear now you know. Yeah yeah, Like my boys
Speaker 4: all were from West Side City. They don't stay there anymore.
Speaker 4: They're out in the Glendale now.
Speaker 3: It's all over so so with like like the south right.
Speaker 3: So t I started trap music. So when j Z came,
Speaker 3: did he put more of a like cultural face on
Speaker 3: it than what t I had it at first?
Speaker 2: So this is gonna sound fucked up. Let me just
Speaker 2: disclaimer to anybody listening to this podcast. Tip ship had
Speaker 2: more music, okay, was like an animal as a as
Speaker 2: a record maker, as a publisher, JZ shit became easier
Speaker 2: to decipher and just hear it and be like, okay,
Speaker 2: this is what trap sounds like.
Speaker 1: Mm you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, do you think more of the sound and more
Speaker 3: of like the detail because I thought j Z was
Speaker 3: putting more detail into it, Like.
Speaker 2: Nah, tip shit was more j Z shit was more fluff.
Speaker 2: Forgive me and I'm sorry, GZ, I ain't shipping on you, bro.
Speaker 2: Tip shit was actually about selling drugs. J Z shit
Speaker 2: was the j Z shit was like more like Scarface
Speaker 2: the movie.
Speaker 4: It was Atlanta exactly where it was, more like he
Speaker 4: created it based off of certain reality, but then he
Speaker 4: exaggerated so great.
Speaker 1: Timp Ship was actually just really selling dope.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jesus. Thing was why PIMPSI got on the radio
Speaker 4: and was talking about anybody out here with thirteen.
Speaker 2: Like Flip was saying ten the keys, like Nigga nobody.
Speaker 2: You know, it's they started sensationalizing the concept.
Speaker 1: Okay, timp ship.
Speaker 2: Is actually about selling dope, but Jez's was more like
Speaker 2: jesz shit is rooted in selling dope, but it's more
Speaker 2: like kind of like the fantasy version of drug dealing,
Speaker 2: like more as an entertainment piece. Not to say Jesz
Speaker 2: wasn't really selling dope, but that's not what he did
Speaker 2: with his music. He made his music more like like
Speaker 2: an inspirational film piece to celebrate drug dealing, to to
Speaker 2: encourage people to hustle. Tim shit is actually the triumphs
Speaker 2: and failures in actually hustling.
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, yeah that makes damn yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: And Nigga's gonna talk shit, but it's true. Like tim
Speaker 2: shit is like about a nigga who's really selling drugs.
Speaker 2: It is more like about a movie nigga selling drugs.
Speaker 4: And chronologically like t I came out well after the
Speaker 4: explosion of the Atlanta scene. I mean he was much
Speaker 4: far behind, you know, the whole the whole dungeon thing,
Speaker 4: all all those other rap like young bloods like Little John.
Speaker 1: He he came out.
Speaker 4: He didn't put Atlanta on the map by any stretch.
Speaker 1: Out cast did that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's good. Where would you put Gucci into that?
Speaker 3: Gucci man, is that like the same as Gez or
Speaker 3: is it more.
Speaker 1: Because Gucci is like tip shit on steroids?
Speaker 3: Oh ship, Hey, Like it's.
Speaker 1: Really like because remember remember Gucci is not from Atlanta.
Speaker 4: Gucci was actually snorted cocaine in the truth.
Speaker 2: Was like a wild nigga, like a wild street From
Speaker 2: the first day I heard him, I was like that
Speaker 2: nigga wild, you know what I mean, Like he was
Speaker 2: with all the shit, you know what I'm saying when
Speaker 2: I first at least from from LA perspective of first
Speaker 2: hearing him early on, like this nigga is wild, like
Speaker 2: Gucci reminded you of a real country nigga.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, he was just wild. Okay.
Speaker 2: So it's it's it's it's tough, and that's what makes
Speaker 2: it hard to get a new big impact or snoop,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, because there are no new
Speaker 2: street urban culture. Like the last one was drill. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was the last unique culture. Like kids with these
Speaker 2: fully automatic weapons and going to do their thing. That
Speaker 2: shit was crazy and it's a phenomenon steel. But since
Speaker 2: you know, you have people around the country just doing that.
Speaker 2: Where if this is they're kind of gang bangers that
Speaker 2: sell drugs. So like the slang is what their whole
Speaker 2: on to the slang, the dialect and how they.
Speaker 1: Talk, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But for the most part, you know, they celebrating like
Speaker 2: let's say they celebrating using drugs. Let's say, uh, what's
Speaker 2: Brodie name? Solid nigga too? I love him real good
Speaker 2: names and niggass too many. We talked about doing some music.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm talking about. He popping in Memphis
Speaker 2: right now? Oh money bag yo yo? So like yo,
Speaker 2: it's talking about drinking lean. That was Houston's thing thirty
Speaker 2: years ago.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he kat was talking about sipping lean
Speaker 4: and Memphis in the seventies on the trip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's like these are all established ideas that's
Speaker 2: just being presented to a new generation versus Snoop given
Speaker 2: the definition of a culture to everybody, Somebody seventy never
Speaker 2: heard this much deep, somebody seven never heard this much deep.
Speaker 2: But if you're like me, right, and I'm listening to
Speaker 2: the money bags, I'm listening to Yo go Off.
Speaker 1: I heard that before.
Speaker 2: So therefore there's no reason for me to overinvest in
Speaker 2: it because you're not telling me something unique. Versus when
Speaker 2: I heard Keith Reese and and and darkening and talking,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I ain't never seen no shit.
Speaker 2: This is like some third world African shit like from
Speaker 2: the sixties running around with k's and shit, look, kids,
Speaker 2: that fucked up. If the music if like I think,
Speaker 2: Chop just kind of got caught up. But if the music,
Speaker 2: like if Kanye would have came and helped them construct
Speaker 2: that music a little bit more, they would have probably
Speaker 2: the greatest phenomenon in the country. It just wasn't musically
Speaker 2: done well. It's hard and stuff pop and Snoop doing.
Speaker 2: I got you the stuff poking Snoop was doing. Not
Speaker 2: only was it the first representation of urban street culture,
Speaker 2: it was also the musically with another kind of detail
Speaker 2: that made it incredible. The ship Dre was doing for
Speaker 2: that shit. Musically, the ship all the brothers from the
Speaker 2: Bay was doing Johnny Ja. That shit was crazy. So
Speaker 2: do we blame you two beats for that?
Speaker 1: Then?
Speaker 3: Like in this generation, because like if you wanted a
Speaker 3: Dre beat, like you had to go to Dre. But
Speaker 3: now somebody from like Arizona I could get I go
Speaker 3: to YouTube and get a drill beat. I could go
Speaker 3: get me in Atlanta beat because it's it's accessible.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's about the beat. And I think
Speaker 4: you blame technology in the sense that now if some
Speaker 4: if a trend is small, it can.
Speaker 1: Spread out.
Speaker 4: Anybody can grab it really quickly. Yeah, even if it's
Speaker 4: not just simply social media, but like you can get
Speaker 4: your shit out quickly. I mean, how many years of
Speaker 4: Hiphi was in Oakland before it became out of the region.
Speaker 4: How many years of screwed and chopping in Houston before
Speaker 4: it became out of the region.
Speaker 1: Those things means you could perfect it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and and and and you knew it was really
Speaker 4: really popular. So it was like it's like a company
Speaker 4: ipoing after two days of business now versus being one
Speaker 4: hundred million dollar prop.
Speaker 2: Which y'all goes to the same thing, right, Pete, even
Speaker 2: though you feel like it doesn't, But it goes to
Speaker 2: the music, the stuff that Dre started making with death
Speaker 2: Ro If that was the same thing as the NWA sound,
Speaker 2: we don't have the success. He had a chance to
Speaker 2: perfect it before it was presented to the mainstream world
Speaker 2: at that level. He perfected it and got it right.
Speaker 2: Same thing with all these other movements versus social media today. Right,
Speaker 2: just like a beef, Like if we brought big and
Speaker 2: POC into today's era, if we brought big and pop
Speaker 2: into today's era, you know what I'm saying, Like that
Speaker 2: beef would probably force them to have to kill each
Speaker 2: other because you would have people to involved with the
Speaker 2: beef perpetuating it, putting a different pressure on it. Like
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the rappers aren't bad today.
Speaker 2: Like I know that's the narrative. A lot of the
Speaker 2: rappers are bad.
Speaker 1: They're not.
Speaker 2: We're just hearing them early, like we heard Poking Big.
Speaker 2: Them dudes have been practicing for a long time before
Speaker 2: we heard them, versus hearing Blue Face's seventh song, which
Speaker 2: could be Tha Tiana and eight songs of Dead Loose.
Speaker 4: And now we're hearing the one hundred and eightieth best
Speaker 4: rapper of his time because he had a song that
Speaker 4: was hot for a week. You didn't get that. I mean,
Speaker 4: you really only were hearing the top thirty. Now you're
Speaker 4: hearing in the top six hundred.
Speaker 2: Good looking out for tuning in too the note Seller's Podcast.
Speaker 2: Please do us a favorite, subscribe, ray, comment, and share.
Speaker 2: This episode was recorded right here on the West coast
Speaker 2: of the USA and produced by my homeboy A King
Speaker 2: for the Black Effect Podcast Network and now Hard Radio.
Speaker 1: Yeah