WEBVTT - Apple's Vision of the Future (Mark Gurman, Act 2)

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to what Future.

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<v Speaker 2>I am your host, Josh Witzapolski, and I gotta say,

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<v Speaker 2>I gotta tell you, folks, it's the beginning of the end,

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<v Speaker 2>or where is the end of the beginning? I think

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<v Speaker 2>we're all grappling with the new reality that we're in,

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<v Speaker 2>the reality of Apple's VR headset, the Vision Pro, a

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five dollars device that looks like a pair of

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<v Speaker 2>ski goggles and also like every other VR headset that

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<v Speaker 2>is going to change the world or absolutely not change

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<v Speaker 2>the world, as you may know. As you probably know,

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<v Speaker 2>last week, we had on Mark German from Bloomberg whotually

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<v Speaker 2>perfectly got pretty much all of these announcements reported out

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<v Speaker 2>ahead of Apple's actual event, and we talked a lot

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<v Speaker 2>about this thing, and I though, to be honest, I

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<v Speaker 2>was a little bit in disbelief when we discussed it.

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<v Speaker 2>My feeling was, this thing seemed everything I was hearing

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<v Speaker 2>seemed so unlike the company and the way that they

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<v Speaker 2>release things and the types of things they released, that

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<v Speaker 2>it all just sounded like weird sort of fantasy. And yet,

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<v Speaker 2>as we discovered on Monday, it's not fantasy. They've created

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<v Speaker 2>this fucking face computer that I guess their idea is

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to kind of do a little bit of everything.

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<v Speaker 2>You can play games in it.

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<v Speaker 1>You can.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, I'm scrolling as i'm talking. I'm scrolling the website

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<v Speaker 2>for this, and there's a picture of a woman sitting

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<v Speaker 2>on a sofa who presumably appears to be talking to

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<v Speaker 2>a man. I'm gonna say it might be her boyfriend

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<v Speaker 2>or husband. It kind of looks like they're pretty cozy here.

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<v Speaker 2>She's wearing this headset, she's smiling at him, She's wearing

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<v Speaker 2>these crazy goggles, and there's the outside of the headset

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<v Speaker 2>has a screen that shows like what appears to be

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<v Speaker 2>your eyes inside the headset, but they're not your eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>They're a video of your eyes that's being shot from

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<v Speaker 2>inside of the headset. Anyhow, They're sitting on the sofa

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<v Speaker 2>in this kind of like cozy environment, and it is

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<v Speaker 2>like the most ridiculous, one of the stupidest looking things

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<v Speaker 2>I've ever seen in my entire life. And I just

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<v Speaker 2>want to say, I'm not trying to be I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>trying to nag, you know, Apple, I'm not trying to say, like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they stink and they can't do anything right,

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<v Speaker 2>and this thing is going to be a failure. But

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<v Speaker 2>it is such a weird and jarring concept, such a

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<v Speaker 2>jarring vision again no pun intended for the future, that

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<v Speaker 2>I have a lot of trouble kind of taking it seriously.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I mean, look, and I've said this before

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<v Speaker 2>and I will say it again. Early on, I was

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<v Speaker 2>a huge, huge fan of where virtual reality can go

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<v Speaker 2>and what it could be. And I have no doubt

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<v Speaker 2>that Apple is going to move the ball forward with

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<v Speaker 2>this thing. But the thing that they introduced feels so

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<v Speaker 2>not right for this moment. It just sort of like

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<v Speaker 2>baffles me. It's a baffling I feel, a totally baffling device.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyhow.

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<v Speaker 2>So I've been thinking about it a lot, obviously, because

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<v Speaker 2>it's I mean, certainly, at the very least, it's the

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<v Speaker 2>most interesting thing Apple has done in a pretty long time,

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<v Speaker 2>good or bad. It's definitely not not ambitious, it's definitely

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<v Speaker 2>not not fucking weird, you know, and I gotta do

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<v Speaker 2>you gotta throw them a bone for that. I do,

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<v Speaker 2>got a hand it to them. They have certainly released

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<v Speaker 2>a product that you know, swinging for the fences, as

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<v Speaker 2>they say in some in some way. But anyhow, before

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<v Speaker 2>they release it. We you know, we had on Mark German.

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<v Speaker 2>He talked about what was going to happen and it

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<v Speaker 2>all came true, and I thought we have to have

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<v Speaker 2>him come back on and just do a little like

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<v Speaker 2>post game breakdown. And so Mark is here with us,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just want to get into hearing his thoughts

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<v Speaker 2>on this very strange.

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<v Speaker 1>New reality that we're living in.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Look, we had to get you back on, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>because I mean we just had this conversation like less

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<v Speaker 2>than a week ago, right, I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>You've got to feel pretty good. I guess you know

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<v Speaker 1>at this point, but like.

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<v Speaker 2>You, I mean, you literally had this entire story and

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<v Speaker 2>end like pretty much everything we talked about on the podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>certainly everything you wrote about over a long period of time,

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<v Speaker 2>but particularly the last piece you did on this headset.

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<v Speaker 2>You got everything pretty much down like exactly as it is.

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<v Speaker 2>So first off, congratulations, that's it's a rare feed. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think people know how hard it is to get

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of level of scoop out of Apple.

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<v Speaker 3>On Apple specifically, it's challenging. I love to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, here's one thing I'm curious, and we can't go

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<v Speaker 2>into the full I know you only have a short

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<v Speaker 2>period of time, but yeah, you know, I'm sure there

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<v Speaker 2>is a part of people at Apple that must be

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<v Speaker 2>really mad at you because you like spoil their big surprise, right,

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<v Speaker 2>But your writing creates an aura of you know, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not saying that you're doing this on purpose. I know

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<v Speaker 2>you're just like writing shit that you get because you

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<v Speaker 2>love tracking it down and hunting it down. But it

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<v Speaker 2>helps to build the hype level to some degree when

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<v Speaker 2>there's all these like exciting rumors about these crazy things

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<v Speaker 2>they might do, Like do you have any interaction with

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<v Speaker 2>anybody at the company? Like do you talk to the

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<v Speaker 2>PR people there? I know it creates a lot of hype.

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<v Speaker 3>At the same time, you know, it's not like they

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<v Speaker 3>asked for that hype, right, They have their preferences about

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<v Speaker 3>how you know, things would roll. Yeah, they are professionals.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, you would expect nothing less from a company

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<v Speaker 3>like Apple. Yeah, they have some of the best people

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<v Speaker 3>there on the PR side and the marketing side, and

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<v Speaker 3>they're all pros pros.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I'll leave it at that.

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<v Speaker 4>No.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's interesting because in my era of being

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<v Speaker 2>very interactive and covering Apple, I mean there's Steve Jobs

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<v Speaker 2>era into the early days of Tim and there was

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<v Speaker 2>a very different set of PR people. It is a

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<v Speaker 2>very different place in time, but I had I would

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<v Speaker 2>describe them as like screaming matches with or just being

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<v Speaker 2>screamed at by the PR people at Apple, where they

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<v Speaker 2>were like freaking out, like because we published shots that

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<v Speaker 2>somebody sent us off like a beta, like a Beta

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<v Speaker 2>iOS or whatever. After they released the Death Beta, somebody

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<v Speaker 2>sent us some shots and we published them and they

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<v Speaker 2>were like losing their shit. But a different era. I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's definitely a much more mature company, a completely

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<v Speaker 2>different company. Yeah, and I know Tim Cook actually kind

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<v Speaker 2>of did a whole house cleaning on the PR side

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<v Speaker 2>of it. Like I think there's a whole new group

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<v Speaker 2>of people there at this point over the last few years.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's the least interest thing. So they've introduced this thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's fucking insane looking. Can we can we just talk

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<v Speaker 2>for a second about they released the headsets Vision Pro.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that what it's called, or just Apple Vision? What

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<v Speaker 1>is it called? It's the Apple Vision Pro. Were you

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<v Speaker 1>surprised about the name?

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<v Speaker 3>The name thing was interesting, So I had heard back

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<v Speaker 3>in early twenty twenty two that they were thinking of

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<v Speaker 3>calling it the Apple Vision. So I wrote at the

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<v Speaker 3>beginning in twenty twenty two that my best guess would

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<v Speaker 3>be that it's called the Apple Vision, right, And then

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<v Speaker 3>you were like, you just want to be sure to

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<v Speaker 3>say you got this originally you had this, yes, And

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<v Speaker 3>then in August of last year they trademarked Reality Pro right,

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<v Speaker 3>and so that became the working title to me, right,

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<v Speaker 3>and then internally they changed the name of the OS

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<v Speaker 3>from Reality OS to XROS, and then they end up

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<v Speaker 3>announcing it as the Vision Pro with visions right. And

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<v Speaker 3>they didn't tell anyone working on the product that it

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<v Speaker 3>was called Vision OS. Interesting, they had kept telling everyone

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<v Speaker 3>working the product that it was called XROS.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>So if you watch any of the developer sessions over

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<v Speaker 3>the course of this week related to the headset, all

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<v Speaker 3>of the sessions are called XROS. Really, yes, all the

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<v Speaker 3>references or XROS, all the Apple engineers call it XROS.

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<v Speaker 1>But XROS is not a thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they're eliminating that, right. But Apple Marketing didn't tell

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<v Speaker 3>Apple Engineering that they had shifted from XROS to Vision OS, right. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that they're marking it as the pro makes

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<v Speaker 3>it pretty clear that there's the non pro coming to

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<v Speaker 3>which is coming about two years from now, half years.

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<v Speaker 1>Two years until now. This doesn't give me available until

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<v Speaker 1>early twenty twenty four, they said, Right, they're not even

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<v Speaker 1>selling it right anytime soon?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 3>And then I don't know if you saw my tweet

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<v Speaker 3>from earlier today, but were you covering Apple and fourteen still?

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<v Speaker 1>Definitely when they announced the Apple Watch.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Actually that was one of the one of the

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<v Speaker 2>last ones where I did the event and review and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I did it for Bloomberg.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually I was at Bloomberg at the time, so I

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<v Speaker 2>actually went out there from Bloomberg. But yeah, I was

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<v Speaker 2>there in twenty fourteen. What's the deal with that?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, when they announced the watch in twenty fourteen, that

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<v Speaker 3>was September, they said would be launching an early twenty fifteen, right,

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<v Speaker 3>It didn't go on sale until the end of April.

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<v Speaker 3>And even then, ye could get one anywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>That's it, right, I remember I.

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<v Speaker 3>Didn't get mine until mid May, end of May, right, yep.

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<v Speaker 3>And so they're saying early twenty twenty four. Notice they're

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<v Speaker 3>saying early next year versus early twenty twenty four by

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<v Speaker 3>the way.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, stee, They they didn't say twenty twenty four early

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<v Speaker 2>next year?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, interesting because early twenty twenty four sounds farther away

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<v Speaker 3>than early next year, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, Also next year is more vague than twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 2>Twenty twenty four sounds very concrete. Sure, not that there's

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<v Speaker 2>any wiggle room there really, but yeah, I see what

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<v Speaker 2>you're saying. So you tweeted something the day of the

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<v Speaker 2>event that I thought was interesting, and I have been

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<v Speaker 2>pondering it quite a bit. You tweeted, have they shown

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<v Speaker 2>any pictures of anybody in the headset? They had a

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<v Speaker 2>picture of Tim Cook standing next to the headset.

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<v Speaker 3>Which is weird, right, if it's your big thing to

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<v Speaker 3>set the standard for your career, I mean, legacy builder,

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<v Speaker 3>you want a one wearing.

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<v Speaker 1>They're all wearing Apple watches, right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they'll hold the iPhone.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, I think, And a lot of people and You're

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<v Speaker 2>in the replies pointed out what I think is probably

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<v Speaker 2>part of it. People were like, Oh, it's because they

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<v Speaker 2>don't want memes to be made of them wearing the headset.

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<v Speaker 2>But that in and of itself, and that's why I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's interesting. The fact that they know that a

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<v Speaker 2>picture of them in the headset will become some kind

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<v Speaker 2>of joke on the internet, right to me, suggests like,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was my point, right, Here's here's what I

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<v Speaker 2>was most surprised about with this thing, because frankly, I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't ready to be surprised at all, given the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that you had gotten the entire thing. But it looks

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<v Speaker 2>so much like a fucking quest or, like you know

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<v Speaker 2>what I mean, it looks like a VR headset. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't look like when in my mind's eye, when I

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<v Speaker 2>think of what Apple can do, like from a hardware perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, this is going to just totally upend my

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<v Speaker 2>idea of what these things look like. But it really

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<v Speaker 2>kind of looks like a nice a really nice quest. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>let me tell you what surprising to me. The back portion,

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<v Speaker 2>like the padding in the back of your head. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that looked way bigger than I expected. Yeah, and that

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<v Speaker 2>things mass. It's clunky. It's a clunky device. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I tweeted a picture of they have this woman sitting

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<v Speaker 2>alone on a sofa with it on, and it's like

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<v Speaker 2>a massive apparatus. Joanna Stern from The Wall Street Journal

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<v Speaker 2>used that she wrote about it. She said it was

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<v Speaker 2>like heavy, it was like hurt her nose. What's your

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<v Speaker 2>impression of the reaction from people on this, like you,

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<v Speaker 2>what have you seen out there?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't need too much mind to a thirty minute demo.

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<v Speaker 3>And what that means for the product long term, My

0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.160
<v Speaker 3>personal opinion is that it's going to be incredibly slow

0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.319
<v Speaker 3>for the first year, even the first three to five years.

0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.120
<v Speaker 3>This is the most controlled Apple launch you'll ever see.

0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.160
<v Speaker 3>It's available only in the US and only from direct

0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:49.040
<v Speaker 3>Apple sales channels right right, And so that's a rarity.

0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:49.840
<v Speaker 3>Both of those things are.

0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.160
<v Speaker 1>That means stores though, right, just from stores.

0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:53.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what I mean is you're not going to be

0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.600
<v Speaker 3>able to buy it a Best Buyer, Target or Walmart

0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.120
<v Speaker 3>or whatever. It's going to be Apple only right in

0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.400
<v Speaker 3>only the US, which is a rarety for them.

0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.320
<v Speaker 2>There used to be periods where it was very hard

0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.000
<v Speaker 2>to get Apple, certain Apple products like weren't readily available everywhere,

0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Like this is going to be one of those products.

0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.679
<v Speaker 3>Obviously that's the old Apple, right, and that's you know,

0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.120
<v Speaker 3>coming back to fruition here, right, They're going to have

0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.160
<v Speaker 3>to release an iPhone app to consumers or a feature

0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.880
<v Speaker 3>in the Apple Store app before the headset comes out

0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:20.800
<v Speaker 3>that allows you to do the whole face scanning thing

0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:22.640
<v Speaker 3>that they were doing, right, because you can't do that

0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.040
<v Speaker 3>through the web browser right order it, so you'll have

0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.400
<v Speaker 3>to do the face scanning before you order it online. Wow,

0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:29.520
<v Speaker 3>or you'll have to do it in the store. So

0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.199
<v Speaker 3>that's going to be a really new way to buy

0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.599
<v Speaker 3>a product. The whole prescription lenses.

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Thing, well, yeah, that was. You were right on that,

0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:36.319
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent right on that.

0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:37.800
<v Speaker 2>It's funny because I was tweeting about it with people

0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, that's not confirmed, and I was like, well,

0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:41.840
<v Speaker 2>let's just wait a minute to it happens.

0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.880
<v Speaker 3>Literally, Like the lens thing, Yeah, okay, how much do

0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:46.680
<v Speaker 3>you think the lenses are? Someone who I spoke to

0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:48.960
<v Speaker 3>today and this person has no idea, but they just

0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.840
<v Speaker 3>threw out this random thousand dollars number for the lenses.

0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, expensive glasses can be right like in that

0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.080
<v Speaker 2>range the actual lenses themselves, like from my glasses that

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:00.000
<v Speaker 2>are like good lenses?

0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Is you know? I don't.

0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:02.960
<v Speaker 2>I think if you have a strong prescription the price

0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.559
<v Speaker 2>goes up a bit, but I mean a few hundred

0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:07.720
<v Speaker 2>dollars probably minimum, right.

0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.320
<v Speaker 3>Two point fifteen insurance? Right, what insurance covers?

0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:11.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I don't know.

0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:13.200
<v Speaker 2>If you go to your insurance you're like, I really

0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.240
<v Speaker 2>need to use this Apple VR headset for work or whatever.

0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, maybe, but what do you how about this? Okay,

0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.280
<v Speaker 2>so you're like, it's a long it's a slow climb.

0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.400
<v Speaker 2>We talked about that a little bit last time. Right, Obviously,

0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.600
<v Speaker 2>you know people who are have some real inside track

0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.680
<v Speaker 2>at the company. Have you heard anything from internally about

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:35.600
<v Speaker 2>how the reception has been taken or how the reaction

0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.040
<v Speaker 2>from from people has been taken. Do you know, have

0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.840
<v Speaker 2>any sense from inside the building what they what they're feeling.

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't know, it's still too early at this point.

0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.200
<v Speaker 3>From people who were there, what they told me the loudest,

0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.040
<v Speaker 3>the loudest reaction was at the price point, rather than

0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.079
<v Speaker 3>anything specific to the headset and such.

0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, the price point's crazy. I mean they had a

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.200
<v Speaker 2>lot of crazy price points at the event. And what

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.079
<v Speaker 2>it's an M two Mac Pro like desktop grand seven

0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:03.240
<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars.

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 3>Either a thousand or two thousand more than the Intel version.

0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 3>It's really expensive, really expensive. That was crazy pricing.

0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.400
<v Speaker 2>And but then thirty five hundred for this headset. Definitely

0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.959
<v Speaker 2>took it out of the realm of nobody believed that.

0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:16.840
<v Speaker 2>I've been telling people for months, this is going to

0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.599
<v Speaker 2>be more expensive. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, it's just

0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.080
<v Speaker 2>like the iPad. Ever, you thought it was a grand,

0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:21.520
<v Speaker 2>but it was half the price this is going to be.

0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:22.280
<v Speaker 1>It's true.

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:24.560
<v Speaker 2>I actually I thought the same thing when we were

0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.080
<v Speaker 2>watching it. I was like, Okay, but they're going to

0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:27.920
<v Speaker 2>hit us with like a fifteen hundred dollars price point

0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 2>or something crazy, and they will sell, and they will

0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 2>sell like a shitload of them right off the bat.

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.240
<v Speaker 3>But don't forget there's more evidence in context than I

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.000
<v Speaker 3>had just from people telling me it's going to be

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 3>three grand plus.

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.520
<v Speaker 3>I was also told, and I've reported many times, that

0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:46.360
<v Speaker 3>they're expecting high one hundred thousands to a million unit sales.

0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.040
<v Speaker 3>If this thing was priced that two thousand or below,

0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.760
<v Speaker 3>they would need more than a million units, Josh, because

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:53.600
<v Speaker 3>everyone would buy one.

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.200
<v Speaker 1>Right, Well, I mean a large amount of people would

0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:56.640
<v Speaker 1>buy them.

0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:57.040
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 2>I am still stuck, And obviously we're not going to

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.200
<v Speaker 2>resolve this here because I know you have limited time.

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.680
<v Speaker 2>But I am totally blown away by the fact that,

0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.200
<v Speaker 2>no matter what they said and did, I have a

0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.720
<v Speaker 2>mental block when I look at the device, it is

0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 2>so similar to the things that have not worked. It

0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.520
<v Speaker 2>is so similar, even the interface, Like when they showed it,

0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.200
<v Speaker 2>you've used the quest, right, so you're familiar with the whole,

0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.120
<v Speaker 2>the whole. They have the whole, this panel interface with

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.360
<v Speaker 2>these like icons and stuff. And not to say that

0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Apple isn't going to completely knock that shit out of

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.360
<v Speaker 2>the water, but the consumer side of this still baffles me.

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.520
<v Speaker 2>The idea that like your average consumer and I know

0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.240
<v Speaker 2>right now it's not the average consumer, but I feel

0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 2>like we're so far away from this becoming a really

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.240
<v Speaker 2>viable product, and like, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting

0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.000
<v Speaker 2>that none of the executives put it on. I mean

0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 2>I find that to be I find that to be

0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.560
<v Speaker 2>like a huge kind of tell on their part.

0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's biz all ar.

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, for years people have been saying that the

0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:07.360
<v Speaker 3>hardware of Apple products is way ahead of the software.

0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.840
<v Speaker 3>I think this is a unique situation where the user

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 3>interface interactions, the user interface design. I would rate the

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.360
<v Speaker 3>OS look and feel and what they're showing there as

0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.720
<v Speaker 3>an a hardware design probably is a b right, And

0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 3>this is without using it and seeing it in person, it.

0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Just feels like a million little compromises you can see.

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 3>Like that's that was the idea from the beginning, because

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.800
<v Speaker 3>the non compromised product is not something that's feasible, right,

0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 3>and had to build this compromised product that they're going

0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.000
<v Speaker 3>to bring something to market. I for one, think it's

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.720
<v Speaker 3>going to be hugely successful long term. You do, I

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.680
<v Speaker 3>do the iPhone cannibalized the iPod. Yeah, the iPad had

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 3>mac cannibalization potential. I think this has iPhone ipen and

0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:51.120
<v Speaker 3>mac cannibalization potential.

0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean that's interesting.

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:56.560
<v Speaker 2>You say that because John Gruber wrote an essay about humane.

0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 2>I assume you've read this right. He wrote a piece

0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 2>about humane and he basically was like, you know, making

0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.840
<v Speaker 2>a replacement for something that people hate is really pretty easy,

0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:09.000
<v Speaker 2>like getting them to convince them that's something you know,

0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.480
<v Speaker 2>that they can replace the thing they hate with something better.

0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 2>But getting them to replace something they love is really

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 2>a huge climb. And I think, like if you think

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:19.480
<v Speaker 2>about it on those terms, I thought it was a

0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.080
<v Speaker 2>really interesting passage that is fascinating because, like I think

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.400
<v Speaker 2>the Humane device is a similar kind of like it's

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.280
<v Speaker 2>like way outside the box, right, I.

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.480
<v Speaker 3>Think the Humane device is way more outside the box

0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:29.359
<v Speaker 3>than the Apple device.

0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, right, but like if you're like, okay, the headset

0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.320
<v Speaker 2>or an iPhone, Like there's so many trade offs with

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.600
<v Speaker 2>the headset, we're so far away from that being the

0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.480
<v Speaker 2>viable alternative, and like do people are people going to

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.040
<v Speaker 2>fall in love with it the way they fell in

0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.960
<v Speaker 2>love with the iPhone? It's a it's a steep climb, right.

0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.200
<v Speaker 3>The iPhone quickly took off, and it was pretty much

0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:51.840
<v Speaker 3>you would add that ideal right from the get go,

0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 3>maybe the second generation, right, the headset's going to take

0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.280
<v Speaker 3>four or five generations to get to the place where

0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:58.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm talking about.

0:17:58.240 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, the funny thing about the iPhone, if you think

0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.520
<v Speaker 2>about it, is like it was a compromise device when

0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:04.359
<v Speaker 2>they released it. There was a ton of compromise, right.

0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.080
<v Speaker 2>It didn't have Remember it had edge when a lot

0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.679
<v Speaker 2>of phones had already gone to three G. Its screen

0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.200
<v Speaker 2>was really small by comparison to to well and really

0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.160
<v Speaker 2>not other devices, but it was a small, pretty small.

0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.480
<v Speaker 3>It became the iPhone screen size became way too small

0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.160
<v Speaker 3>within three years, right.

0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.440
<v Speaker 2>But no, that was like a big screen actually I guess, so, yeah,

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.399
<v Speaker 2>that's true. But there was no copy and paste, there

0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:24.960
<v Speaker 2>was no apps. There was all this stuff that wasn't

0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.719
<v Speaker 2>on that was on the cimer room floor. But it

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.120
<v Speaker 2>took a thing that was really not great that everybody

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.040
<v Speaker 2>was using and made a version of it that was

0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.440
<v Speaker 2>so much better, such a huge leap that it was like, oh,

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.320
<v Speaker 2>I can never look at that other thing again, right,

0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm never going to go back to a BlackBerry

0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.239
<v Speaker 2>after this, right, I don't know they got there with

0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 2>the with the headset.

0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.960
<v Speaker 3>The headset's not really replacing a device that everyone hates, right.

0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:48.719
<v Speaker 3>I think the first point that you mentioned is right

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.000
<v Speaker 3>where the bar is higher, because you're trying to replace

0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.120
<v Speaker 3>things that you already love and use every day. Whereas

0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.560
<v Speaker 3>in terms of the iPhone cannibalizing the iPod, if you

0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.640
<v Speaker 3>really think about it based on that context, it's even

0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.440
<v Speaker 3>more what they were able to pull off with the

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:03.879
<v Speaker 3>iPod to the iPhone transition, because they killed something that

0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:05.879
<v Speaker 3>everyone loved right hundred.

0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:07.159
<v Speaker 2>Percent, but they killed it with a thing that was

0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.600
<v Speaker 2>the same thing and had all those features right plus more.

0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.720
<v Speaker 2>But when you were watching the presentation. Were you there

0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:15.600
<v Speaker 2>or were you just watching remotely? Oh?

0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:16.479
<v Speaker 3>I saw it remotely.

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Did not feel to you like pretty just took pretty

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.679
<v Speaker 2>black mirror some of the parts of the presentation.

0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.679
<v Speaker 3>There were some demos, like the guy playing with his

0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.720
<v Speaker 3>kids wearing it's a It seems quite ridiculous to me.

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.920
<v Speaker 3>And then right, they're gonna also step on their own

0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.359
<v Speaker 3>toes in three years when they release an iPhone that

0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.600
<v Speaker 3>can take three D pictures and you have to have

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.200
<v Speaker 3>that whole you know, motorcycle helmet on your head to

0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:40.040
<v Speaker 3>doom Bault team.

0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:41.760
<v Speaker 1>Is that a plan or they are they doing that?

0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.360
<v Speaker 3>No, I'm just I mean, you hit thought to imagine

0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 3>that's something they're going to try to do if they're

0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.440
<v Speaker 3>able to integrate a three D camera into a phone.

0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean the thing with the kids was pretty weird,

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.879
<v Speaker 2>like the guy sitting on the sofa watching the picture

0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.280
<v Speaker 2>of his kids or watching the video of his kids playing. Like,

0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.160
<v Speaker 2>I know we all look at pictures on our phone

0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.480
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, but there's some something real sci fi, like

0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:04.439
<v Speaker 2>not in a fun way about this idea of you,

0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.720
<v Speaker 2>like being strapped into this device watching a moving image

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:08.359
<v Speaker 2>of your family.

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 3>I will say though, on a high level. They surprised

0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.439
<v Speaker 3>me with how well they positioned it. I thought they

0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.359
<v Speaker 3>were going to go in a totally different direction, Like

0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:19.920
<v Speaker 3>what direction they did exactly what I thought they should

0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.000
<v Speaker 3>have done, and market it as the future of the computer.

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:23.919
<v Speaker 1>Right now. You said that, you said that on the

0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:25.720
<v Speaker 1>on the last show, you were like, soid.

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.680
<v Speaker 3>That's what people working on it it should be marketed as,

0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.360
<v Speaker 3>and what their aim was. But it was very possible

0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.159
<v Speaker 3>that Apple marketing would take it in a different direction and

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.280
<v Speaker 3>make it more of a companion device. But if they

0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.560
<v Speaker 3>really marketed it correctly, which they did, I think it

0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:38.680
<v Speaker 3>has a long term potential.

0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:40.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean the pitch was sort of like, for thirty

0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.280
<v Speaker 2>five hundred dollars, it replaces your computer.

0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.040
<v Speaker 1>Yes, which is a great thing you're I mean it.

0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:45.399
<v Speaker 2>Sort of was like, I mean, it can't replace your

0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.960
<v Speaker 2>phone because it doesn't have a SIM, right, it's not cellular.

0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:49.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, they'llood cellular, rightly.

0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:51.720
<v Speaker 2>They'll make the dial have a red line on it,

0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.800
<v Speaker 2>and then you'll know that that's a cellular headset. All right, Mark, listen,

0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:56.320
<v Speaker 2>I know you need to go. You're a very busy man.

0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.240
<v Speaker 2>You probably have thousands of people who have to congratulate you.

0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Now you have to do a high five session at

0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg HQ.

0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:04.840
<v Speaker 3>One last thing, I'll say.

0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes, one more, one more thing, if you will actually

0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:07.760
<v Speaker 1>two more things.

0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:11.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, most absurd thing from the presentation they said two

0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.720
<v Speaker 3>hours on the battery pack or all day battery life

0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:15.040
<v Speaker 3>when you're plugged in, like come.

0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.800
<v Speaker 1>On right all day when you're literally plugged into an

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 1>outlet right right.

0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.840
<v Speaker 3>The other thing I'll say is I still believe that

0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.560
<v Speaker 3>it's gonna start off very slow. Yeah, but I think

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:27.560
<v Speaker 3>over time, if they can get the price point in

0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.399
<v Speaker 3>half and they can you know, chop down the design

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.639
<v Speaker 3>a little bit, and they can highlight more of the

0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:35.880
<v Speaker 3>ar features and they get a really solid developer response,

0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.440
<v Speaker 3>I think long term it could be it could be

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.400
<v Speaker 3>a smash hip. Are you gonna buy one?

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.399
<v Speaker 1>Probably not, I mean honestly, I mean I don't know.

0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you know.

0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:45.320
<v Speaker 2>I say, it's like, here's the thing I say no

0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 2>to shit all the time. I'm like, I'm not getting that,

0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:48.879
<v Speaker 2>and then I like go in a store and I

0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.000
<v Speaker 2>look at it and I'm like, ah, right, fine, thirty

0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:51.960
<v Speaker 2>five hundred dollars.

0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Is a high bar.

0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Even like I'm the like I could certainly I could

0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.679
<v Speaker 2>afford one, but like I'm like thirty five hundred, what

0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.879
<v Speaker 2>am I gonna do with this thing? Like again the

0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:02.920
<v Speaker 2>other thing that's and this is actually a good point

0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.959
<v Speaker 2>to we'll close on this, but it kind of speaks

0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.080
<v Speaker 2>to what you're saying about this long term plan. One

0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:10.159
<v Speaker 2>of the things Joanna said in her piece was it

0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:13.000
<v Speaker 2>made her nauseous when she used it. I get very

0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:14.640
<v Speaker 2>much And you talked about this on the show last

0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:16.760
<v Speaker 2>time the same way, and I get very motion sick

0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.560
<v Speaker 2>using VR stuff. I love it, like I've loved some

0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:21.440
<v Speaker 2>of the Quest experiences, but I'm like, damn, I gotta

0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:23.480
<v Speaker 2>take this thing off because I literally feel like I'm

0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:25.879
<v Speaker 2>going to throw up if they have not come up

0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.960
<v Speaker 2>with like a real magic bullet for fixing that for

0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:32.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people, I think that's a huge problem.

0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Like I know, the like being physically ill is not

0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:36.720
<v Speaker 2>like a little thing, right, It's like and I.

0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:39.000
<v Speaker 3>Get really ill from it. I am just thinking, you

0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.360
<v Speaker 3>know about it Yesterday's like I might use this thing

0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:42.720
<v Speaker 3>for two weeks and have to return.

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.520
<v Speaker 2>It, right, And I think that's an experience that's It's

0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.200
<v Speaker 2>not Antennagate. This is way bigger it's like you made

0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:50.440
<v Speaker 2>a device that is actually making people. I can see

0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:51.440
<v Speaker 2>the stories now.

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Because it's Apple. Yes, those stories will.

0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Happen, right, CMBC has the report people throwing up because

0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:57.560
<v Speaker 1>of their Apple headsets or whatever.

0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:02.239
<v Speaker 3>The difference between Antennagate and this was intenegate. Apple blamed it,

0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:04.480
<v Speaker 3>said it was an industry problem when it wasn't an

0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:06.320
<v Speaker 3>industry problem, right nausea.

0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Actually, actually they could say it's an industry problem. All

0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:12.080
<v Speaker 2>these other headsets have had, you know, the problems with

0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 2>this people get.

0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:16.680
<v Speaker 3>But this time it would be true, right to tenigate,

0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:18.919
<v Speaker 3>it wasn't true what they turned it into an industry

0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:21.119
<v Speaker 3>problem when it wasn't right this time, you know, the

0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.760
<v Speaker 3>nausea thing is an industry thing, and let's see what happens.

0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:25.719
<v Speaker 3>But my point being is you can't really know that

0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:27.679
<v Speaker 3>from an Apple Store demo before you buy it.

0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:29.560
<v Speaker 2>No, if you use it for long enough, I guess

0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.200
<v Speaker 2>if they give you a ten minute demo, though they're

0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:32.920
<v Speaker 2>not gonna be able to give people ten minute demos, but.

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:34.040
<v Speaker 1>Like it's just a reality of this.

0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:36.239
<v Speaker 2>If they have not gotten the latency down and the

0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.199
<v Speaker 2>frame rate and the refresh rate of the screens up

0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:41.399
<v Speaker 2>and even then, I think it's still like not a

0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:42.240
<v Speaker 2>perfect solution.

0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Right, there's still like that.

0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:45.320
<v Speaker 3>Going start growing up upper ten minutes, right, it takes

0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:47.480
<v Speaker 3>you a good hour, So you're really going to have

0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:49.080
<v Speaker 3>to use this thing and see how it goes.

0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:51.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean, everybody's different, there's different sensitivities. All I'm going

0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:53.520
<v Speaker 2>to say is like, there, I have yet to see

0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 2>another Apple product that induces actual illness when you use it.

0:23:57.680 --> 0:23:59.520
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever heard of an Apple when you see

0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:00.840
<v Speaker 1>the right? No, I'm kidding.

0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Everybody just started immediately throwing up in the auditorium when

0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:05.840
<v Speaker 2>they saw the price.

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:08.879
<v Speaker 3>I haven't heard of anyone personally who's used the device

0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:09.560
<v Speaker 3>who has had that.

0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Problem, right, Because there are all people at Apple, aren't

0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:12.840
<v Speaker 2>they They're not going to be like, oh yeah, by

0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:15.040
<v Speaker 2>the way, it was pukey and when we's jested out.

0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:18.479
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I hadn't seen anyone other than Joanna say it,

0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:20.040
<v Speaker 3>which is curious.

0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:22.720
<v Speaker 1>So you're saying Joanna's lying fake news. No, that's not

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:23.320
<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying.

0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:24.720
<v Speaker 3>Wow, that's not what I'm saying.

0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:27.640
<v Speaker 1>White an attack on her credibility, Mark. What I'm saying.

0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:31.400
<v Speaker 3>What I'm saying is is that Joanna cuts through the noise, right,

0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:35.160
<v Speaker 3>And I'm saying that it's possible that the demos were

0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:39.119
<v Speaker 3>so blow away that it was easy to maybe ignore

0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:43.159
<v Speaker 3>for sure that issue. It was a compliment with Joanna.

0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:45.760
<v Speaker 2>They didn't let that many people do hands on with it,

0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:47.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, or an eyes on or whatever the fuck

0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:48.159
<v Speaker 2>we're calling it.

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:52.560
<v Speaker 3>Did demos till ten pm on Reay and really probably

0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:54.680
<v Speaker 3>do the same till ten pm today and maybe throughout

0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:54.960
<v Speaker 3>the week.

0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:57.480
<v Speaker 2>But I mean comparatively, it's not like people could go

0:24:57.480 --> 0:24:58.800
<v Speaker 2>grab it and just try it out.

0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 1>It's like they're doing it's all demos.

0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:03.840
<v Speaker 3>Watch the Good Morning America video, the interview with Tim

0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:07.119
<v Speaker 3>Cook and the interview that the anchor got. That's the

0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:08.639
<v Speaker 3>same demo everyone else is getting.

0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:11.399
<v Speaker 1>Oh did they show it? They have like a they

0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:12.119
<v Speaker 1>actually filmed that.

0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:15.320
<v Speaker 3>On the only like Good Morning America film the demo.

0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:17.360
<v Speaker 3>You can see the building they built for the demos,

0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:19.359
<v Speaker 3>in the room they're in. They put you on a couch.

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.080
<v Speaker 3>It's in a controlled environment. Yeah, and so you can

0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:23.960
<v Speaker 3>see you know, you sit on a couch for thirty minutes,

0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:25.639
<v Speaker 3>you do all the demos they've programmed for you, and

0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:27.680
<v Speaker 3>you get to see people are people have been blown

0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:29.480
<v Speaker 3>away by this thing, but again a thirty minute demo,

0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:30.600
<v Speaker 3>you have to use it for a few weeks.

0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:32.800
<v Speaker 2>I have no doubt it's an incredible They have some

0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:34.760
<v Speaker 2>incredible features, and also you got to remember a lot

0:25:34.800 --> 0:25:36.240
<v Speaker 2>of those people probably are not I mean there's probably

0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:37.639
<v Speaker 2>a handful like the Good Morning America people.

0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:38.920
<v Speaker 1>How much VR do you think they've done?

0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:39.160
<v Speaker 4>Right?

0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:42.280
<v Speaker 3>I want to read the reviews when this thing ships

0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:44.120
<v Speaker 3>and they can use it for several days. I want

0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:46.399
<v Speaker 3>to read the reviews from the VR websites.

0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, are they even going to work with those websites?

0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Do they even care about them? I'm sure they will

0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:53.400
<v Speaker 2>really because I feel like historically Apple likes to bypass

0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:56.040
<v Speaker 2>the geeky shit and go to like the mainstream for

0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:56.679
<v Speaker 2>this device.

0:25:56.720 --> 0:25:58.600
<v Speaker 3>They need that. They were all there at the conference

0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:00.919
<v Speaker 3>and I thought it was the right from out certainly

0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:02.639
<v Speaker 3>based on Apple's history, could have gone either way, but

0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 3>I think they made the right decision there. Yeah, you

0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:06.720
<v Speaker 3>want that community to really talk this up because that's

0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:08.159
<v Speaker 3>the community that's going to buy this thing from the

0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:08.480
<v Speaker 3>get go.

0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Right? Is this a quest killer?

0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:10.840
<v Speaker 3>Like?

0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Is that it?

0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Or is it just the price points too high?

0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:18.280
<v Speaker 3>The delta on the price is so large that yeah,

0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:20.960
<v Speaker 3>you can't compare the two. What I will say though,

0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:24.199
<v Speaker 3>is the Meta is uh one sixth of the price.

0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:27.719
<v Speaker 3>I still think it's not as bad as one's sixth

0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:28.960
<v Speaker 3>as the Apple thevist.

0:26:29.000 --> 0:26:31.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean, E mean it doesn't it's doesn't. It's not

0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:32.920
<v Speaker 2>one sixth as good or it's better.

0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:33.720
<v Speaker 1>It's not as point.

0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:35.840
<v Speaker 3>It's not one. Maybe it's two or three six.

0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:38.919
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's pretty, that's pretty. That's pretty damning, you know.

0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:41.560
<v Speaker 2>But if that's the best that we have to offer

0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:44.040
<v Speaker 2>right now, I mean maybe PSVR is. I mean it's

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:46.320
<v Speaker 2>a totally different experience for a totally different purpose. But

0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:49.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean Apples certainly will become the best of this category.

0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 1>There's no question.

0:26:50.680 --> 0:26:52.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I saw someone tweet this morning. Is the last

0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:54.760
<v Speaker 3>thing I'll say. I forgot who's who? Please forgive me

0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:57.040
<v Speaker 3>for not citing them. And I have the same exact thought.

0:26:57.160 --> 0:26:59.920
<v Speaker 3>Meta should license out like their metas.

0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:01.879
<v Speaker 1>Do you like an Android?

0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:04.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they should go the Android model and they'll crush it.

0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:06.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, honestly, what would be really interesting is

0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:10.320
<v Speaker 2>to see some hardware creativity here because I think that

0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:13.760
<v Speaker 2>like eventually, someone's going to crack that magic place between

0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:15.280
<v Speaker 2>like it's not too big, it's not too bulky, it

0:27:15.320 --> 0:27:18.120
<v Speaker 2>doesn't look too weird, and it actually is like functions.

0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:18.920
<v Speaker 3>Well and watch it'll be Apple.

0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Well it'll be Apple, you know, on a long enough

0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:24.439
<v Speaker 2>timeline and they have infinite money. So that's good, like

0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:25.680
<v Speaker 2>I assume it will.

0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Mark.

0:27:26.359 --> 0:27:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for coming back and talking about this again,

0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:31.040
<v Speaker 2>like ingrats on the scoops. Just super fucking awesome to

0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:33.080
<v Speaker 2>see it all like play out the way you wrote it.

0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:35.399
<v Speaker 3>Thank you and thank your team. Thank you so much. Bye,

0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:35.800
<v Speaker 3>see you.

0:27:45.760 --> 0:27:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Mark.

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Is he's just great, is I have to say, first off,

0:27:50.880 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 2>and just an incredible ability, Like it's so rare just

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:56.240
<v Speaker 2>to be able to do what he does, which is

0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:58.840
<v Speaker 2>to scoop the largest most valuable company in the world

0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:02.119
<v Speaker 2>on their own announcements an outrageous thing to do, and

0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:04.040
<v Speaker 2>to do it consistently and to get it like almost

0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 2>perfectly right is fairly unusual.

0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:08.359
<v Speaker 1>So we'll have him back.

0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:10.840
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna have him share some more Apple secrets with

0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:13.639
<v Speaker 2>us next time he gets a nasty ass scoop.

0:28:14.359 --> 0:28:15.119
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:19.280
<v Speaker 2>But but you know, I do have some more thoughts

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:21.600
<v Speaker 2>about what this headset really means.

0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:23.440
<v Speaker 4>I did want to bring up that picture that you

0:28:23.520 --> 0:28:25.959
<v Speaker 4>posted on Twitter of like you wearing some sort of

0:28:26.040 --> 0:28:27.360
<v Speaker 4>like glasses from.

0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:29.479
<v Speaker 1>Like oh yeah, Google Google, that's Google Glass.

0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. I loved that.

0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh.

0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:33.280
<v Speaker 2>By the way, for the record, I just was writing,

0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:35.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, I was writing a piece for the for

0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:37.679
<v Speaker 2>the fucking Verge. It wasn't like I was like, I

0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:39.120
<v Speaker 2>bought these glasses and I'm wearing them.

0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Here. I'll put it in the link.

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:40.959
<v Speaker 4>That's what it looks like.

0:28:41.400 --> 0:28:43.200
<v Speaker 1>No, I know, but I know it's funny.

0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:44.800
<v Speaker 2>But like, you know, that's what happens when you like

0:28:44.880 --> 0:28:46.520
<v Speaker 2>review a product, is like you put them on and

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:48.040
<v Speaker 2>then somebody takes a picture of you and then you

0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:49.800
<v Speaker 2>got to live with that for the rest of your life.

0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:53.240
<v Speaker 1>I look fucking so stupid this picture.

0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I look like a Jewish terminator is how I describe

0:28:56.640 --> 0:28:59.400
<v Speaker 2>my vibe right here. But this is actually way less

0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:03.320
<v Speaker 2>dumb than the Apple thing. Like this is super dumb

0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:11.240
<v Speaker 2>and embarrassing and like silly, but comparatively comparatively, think about

0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:15.520
<v Speaker 2>this versus what Apple is suggesting. Okay, the Apple thing

0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:18.640
<v Speaker 2>is like ten times as clunky and gigantic as this.

0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 2>It's not cooler. I'm not saying this is cool, although

0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:27.080
<v Speaker 2>it's closer to like something you'd want, like an unobtrusive

0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:29.680
<v Speaker 2>small thing that's like a part of your glasses or something.

0:29:29.840 --> 0:29:30.040
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:33.120
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a famous picture of Mark Zuckerberg walking

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:35.400
<v Speaker 2>down the aisle of one of his events where they

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:40.120
<v Speaker 2>gave everybody an Oculus headset a quest or whatever, and

0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:41.880
<v Speaker 2>it looks like the most it's one of the most

0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:44.800
<v Speaker 2>dystopian photos of all time. And I think, when when

0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I look at this, and when I see like the

0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:50.320
<v Speaker 2>pictures on Apple's website of this woman I don't know,

0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 2>hanging out on her sofa with her boyfriend or whatever,

0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:58.640
<v Speaker 2>and she's got these massive goggles on her face, it

0:29:58.680 --> 0:29:59.520
<v Speaker 2>doesn't feel like.

0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:03.160
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't spark excitement or joy for me, you know,

0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:06.920
<v Speaker 1>it just is like, what are we doing here, folks?

0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:08.840
<v Speaker 1>What are we doing? What's happening?

0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:11.440
<v Speaker 2>I think the thing that's most interesting about it, to

0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:13.600
<v Speaker 2>be honest, is how much I feel like the Apple's

0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:16.880
<v Speaker 2>just this whole thing just misjudges the moment of life

0:30:16.880 --> 0:30:19.520
<v Speaker 2>that we're in. Just I said this on the last podcast,

0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:22.320
<v Speaker 2>but it just feels like, Man, I want to breathe

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:24.400
<v Speaker 2>fucking air. I want to be I want to I

0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:27.320
<v Speaker 2>want to touch grass. I want to be out on

0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:30.480
<v Speaker 2>an adventure somewhere and with like people I know and love,

0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:33.520
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't want to put something on my face

0:30:33.720 --> 0:30:38.360
<v Speaker 2>and be transported to like a virtual fucking office, which

0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:40.160
<v Speaker 2>is a lot of a lot of the a lot

0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:43.040
<v Speaker 2>of the stuff they showed was actually like you can

0:30:43.600 --> 0:30:45.960
<v Speaker 2>be at the office with this on and like we

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:50.000
<v Speaker 2>do some work and it's like, yeah, that doesn't seem.

0:30:49.760 --> 0:30:51.360
<v Speaker 1>That great to me, you know.

0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Or you can watch your kids, you know, playing while

0:30:56.480 --> 0:30:59.320
<v Speaker 2>you're wearing this fucking thing on your face, like well,

0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:02.040
<v Speaker 2>you can't even actually interact with them properly like a

0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:04.040
<v Speaker 2>normal person. Not to say that holding a phone up

0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:06.280
<v Speaker 2>is any better. Maybe it's not. You know, maybe this

0:31:06.320 --> 0:31:08.360
<v Speaker 2>is better than holding it. It's not better than holding

0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:08.920
<v Speaker 2>a phone up.

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:09.640
<v Speaker 1>It's not.

0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:13.000
<v Speaker 2>People have been holding cameras up forever. It's very similar

0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:14.600
<v Speaker 2>when you hold your phone up. But this is like

0:31:15.360 --> 0:31:19.080
<v Speaker 2>cutting literally cutting how off you're the main one of

0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:22.040
<v Speaker 2>the main ways you communicate with other people in the world.

0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I understand.

0:31:23.000 --> 0:31:26.080
<v Speaker 2>They have a digital projection of your eyes and when

0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:29.320
<v Speaker 2>you do a FaceTime shat, it creates a virtual three

0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:31.880
<v Speaker 2>D avatar of your face. I mean, the whole thing

0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:34.600
<v Speaker 2>just is like, is this just an elaborate setup for

0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:37.480
<v Speaker 2>the new season of Black Mirror? And by the way,

0:31:37.520 --> 0:31:40.080
<v Speaker 2>I hate the Black Mirror shit. Like I'm not a

0:31:40.080 --> 0:31:42.920
<v Speaker 2>big fan of Black Mirror because it's always like whoa

0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:45.720
<v Speaker 2>technology is fucked up? Man or whatever. That's the whole

0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:50.719
<v Speaker 2>premise of the show is like technology right. But I

0:31:50.720 --> 0:31:53.760
<v Speaker 2>gotta say I maybe they were onto something. Maybe they're

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:56.840
<v Speaker 2>onto something. Maybe they we should heed the warnings of

0:31:56.880 --> 0:32:00.360
<v Speaker 2>a British TV show, although that doesn't say on right

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:03.080
<v Speaker 2>to me at all. And maybe I just need to

0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:04.800
<v Speaker 2>just jack into the matrix and call it a day.

0:32:06.560 --> 0:32:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I just need to jack into the matrix and

0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:12.160
<v Speaker 2>be done with it. Maybe I'm overthinking it. Maybe I'm

0:32:12.360 --> 0:32:16.560
<v Speaker 2>being a negative person. Maybe I'm being a suppressive person,

0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 2>as they say in scientology. Maybe I'm being Maybe I'm

0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:22.480
<v Speaker 2>not an ot anything, I'm an OT zero, you know.

0:32:23.000 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I just need to hop into this head first.

0:32:26.280 --> 0:32:27.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm not really sure.

0:32:27.840 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 4>Can I ask you a question?

0:32:28.920 --> 0:32:29.480
<v Speaker 3>I have a question.

0:32:29.600 --> 0:32:31.120
<v Speaker 1>You can ask me anything you want. I would love

0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 1>to hear. I would love a question.

0:32:32.520 --> 0:32:36.360
<v Speaker 4>Okay, So I remember when like the I pod came

0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:38.200
<v Speaker 4>out and the iPhone came out, these are all things

0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:41.240
<v Speaker 4>that are so cool because I like enhanced your living experience.

0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:44.560
<v Speaker 4>Right now, our options are you put on a headset

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:46.680
<v Speaker 4>and you go into a different experience where you create

0:32:46.720 --> 0:32:49.600
<v Speaker 4>an avatar and go into like assumes like experience, right,

0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:53.320
<v Speaker 4>so the right futures so there, Yeah, they are out

0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:56.719
<v Speaker 4>of our current realities. So that to me feels like

0:32:56.880 --> 0:32:58.840
<v Speaker 4>we're just out of creativity, right.

0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:02.280
<v Speaker 2>I hear you're saying, we certainly are running out of ideas.

0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Like this is a great indicator that we're at a point,

0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:07.160
<v Speaker 2>we were at a value. I've actually I've talked about

0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:09.840
<v Speaker 2>this many times in the past. You know, there are

0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:12.320
<v Speaker 2>there are there are peaks and valleys to all of this.

0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:14.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, there there there is the build up and

0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:17.360
<v Speaker 2>the breakdown. And I think like if if the peak

0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:21.800
<v Speaker 2>is you know, the iPhone, because it really is from

0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:27.120
<v Speaker 2>a technology perspective, the peak of modern sort of technological

0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:31.760
<v Speaker 2>innovations is really the iPhone and the era that it begat,

0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:35.800
<v Speaker 2>which is this era of always on connectivity and social

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:39.920
<v Speaker 2>sort of inter you know, always on digital social connectivity

0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:42.960
<v Speaker 2>and interaction with a device that kind of is to

0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:46.560
<v Speaker 2>do everything device that's the highest pinnacle of sort of

0:33:46.600 --> 0:33:50.720
<v Speaker 2>technological sort of upset that has happened in probably in

0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:53.800
<v Speaker 2>my lifetime. You could say the Internet, right, but actually

0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:57.280
<v Speaker 2>in some way the Internet's full the power in the

0:33:58.360 --> 0:34:01.800
<v Speaker 2>power in the terror of the Internet wasn't actually fully

0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:05.520
<v Speaker 2>encapsulated or realized until the Internet was like in our

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:09.080
<v Speaker 2>hands all the time and in art like was where

0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:11.719
<v Speaker 2>our photos went and where we communicated, And that didn't

0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 2>happen until the iPhone, it really did, and everything else

0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:16.400
<v Speaker 2>was like you had to sit down somewhere basically to

0:34:16.480 --> 0:34:18.240
<v Speaker 2>go and off to this other place.

0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:20.359
<v Speaker 1>So if that's the peak, and.

0:34:20.400 --> 0:34:22.400
<v Speaker 2>All of the things that begat are the kind of

0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:25.920
<v Speaker 2>like in the wake of the peak of this technological innovation,

0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:27.600
<v Speaker 2>then there has to be there will be naturally be

0:34:27.640 --> 0:34:28.000
<v Speaker 2>a value.

0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:30.000
<v Speaker 1>You can't have. It can't.

0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:32.279
<v Speaker 2>You can't keep hitting peaks over and over again with

0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:34.719
<v Speaker 2>this stuff. It's just not possible. Like, you can't. You're

0:34:34.719 --> 0:34:38.239
<v Speaker 2>not going to invent things that are that explosive on

0:34:38.280 --> 0:34:39.440
<v Speaker 2>such a regular cadence.

0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:40.880
<v Speaker 1>And if you look at the time of.

0:34:40.960 --> 0:34:44.799
<v Speaker 2>Technology that's been built post iPhone, there's been this you

0:34:44.840 --> 0:34:46.680
<v Speaker 2>know a huge amount of things that happened. Even like

0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:48.800
<v Speaker 2>if you look at like a tesla, a huge amount

0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:51.200
<v Speaker 2>of Like why Tesla was successful is because it borrowed

0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:55.240
<v Speaker 2>a lot of innovations from an iPhone. Like many many

0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:58.160
<v Speaker 2>things about the Tesla are a kind of reference to

0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:00.880
<v Speaker 2>or a nod to how the iPhone fund Even this

0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 2>concept for us conceptually of like electric cars being like

0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:06.839
<v Speaker 2>a big phone you charge or whatever, has been made

0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:10.160
<v Speaker 2>more accessible by the existence of the iPhone. But in

0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:11.839
<v Speaker 2>the grand scheme of things, the Tesla is like a

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:15.960
<v Speaker 2>car with a different engine. Right, It's not a total

0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:20.120
<v Speaker 2>reinvention of travel as we know it. So there hasn't

0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:21.840
<v Speaker 2>been an explose I'm just used as an example, but

0:35:21.880 --> 0:35:24.640
<v Speaker 2>there has not been an explosive next moment. And again,

0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:30.640
<v Speaker 2>all of the recent moments of innovation are a byproduct

0:35:30.719 --> 0:35:33.200
<v Speaker 2>in some way of the iPhone. You could make an

0:35:33.280 --> 0:35:36.439
<v Speaker 2>argument about sort of machine learning and AI stuff like chat,

0:35:36.480 --> 0:35:40.560
<v Speaker 2>GBT and mid journey. I think it's an explosive potential.

0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:44.319
<v Speaker 2>There's no iPhone of it. Yet, there isn't the iPhone thing,

0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:47.840
<v Speaker 2>the killer app that makes it the kind of the

0:35:47.920 --> 0:35:50.799
<v Speaker 2>delineating point between the thing before and the thing that

0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:56.040
<v Speaker 2>comes after. The VR headset, the vision pro And I'm

0:35:56.040 --> 0:35:58.239
<v Speaker 2>not saying this to be to downplay it or to

0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:03.120
<v Speaker 2>be negative, but it is a slight tweak on what

0:36:03.200 --> 0:36:06.400
<v Speaker 2>an iPhone is. The screen is in a different place,

0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:10.000
<v Speaker 2>the content is in a different place. Yes, certainly, VR

0:36:10.080 --> 0:36:13.480
<v Speaker 2>and AR there are different things that they allow. Yet

0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:17.080
<v Speaker 2>first person games that you play on your computer they

0:36:17.080 --> 0:36:19.719
<v Speaker 2>have a lot in common with what a VR game does.

0:36:19.760 --> 0:36:22.120
<v Speaker 2>It's just a little bit more of like you're immersed

0:36:22.239 --> 0:36:26.040
<v Speaker 2>fully visually in it versus you're only seventy percent immersed

0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:28.640
<v Speaker 2>in it or whatever AR. We do on our phones

0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:31.799
<v Speaker 2>all the time, so that that application of the digital

0:36:31.960 --> 0:36:36.200
<v Speaker 2>overlaid on the virtual. These are fairly familiar things, right.

0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Every time you use your camera to snap a QR

0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:41.279
<v Speaker 2>code and then take you to a website, you're using

0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:42.279
<v Speaker 2>AR in some way.

0:36:42.360 --> 0:36:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:44.480
<v Speaker 2>If you use your one of those measurement things to

0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:46.200
<v Speaker 2>measure on your phone, like, that's AR.

0:36:46.360 --> 0:36:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:48.920
<v Speaker 2>If you look at like some weird three D object

0:36:49.000 --> 0:36:52.560
<v Speaker 2>in your room, that's an AR. So all of this stuff,

0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:55.680
<v Speaker 2>like the sensor is, the cameras, the motion tracking, the

0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:58.799
<v Speaker 2>connectivity to your apps, all the surface that you see

0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:02.040
<v Speaker 2>when you work in it. It is not an explosive

0:37:02.120 --> 0:37:04.440
<v Speaker 2>new idea like it's always been this way and now

0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:08.520
<v Speaker 2>we've upended it. It's just like a continuation of, almost

0:37:08.560 --> 0:37:13.640
<v Speaker 2>an addendum to what the iPhone created. And so for me,

0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:15.440
<v Speaker 2>when I look at it, it's not that I don't

0:37:15.440 --> 0:37:17.520
<v Speaker 2>think it can be cool or exciting or interesting, and

0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:21.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there will be implications with this, but the

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:26.800
<v Speaker 2>idea that it's like the next peak technologically speaking, feels

0:37:26.800 --> 0:37:29.320
<v Speaker 2>like really like a vacant thought. It feels like a fake,

0:37:29.800 --> 0:37:34.640
<v Speaker 2>a phony, a put on about what real peaks look like.

0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:37.319
<v Speaker 2>And I don't think we have the moment, like this

0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:39.319
<v Speaker 2>is not the moment for this, Like I don't think

0:37:39.360 --> 0:37:42.920
<v Speaker 2>this is the where everybody was gravitating towards it and

0:37:42.920 --> 0:37:45.279
<v Speaker 2>then something just broke through that's so special and so

0:37:45.320 --> 0:37:48.280
<v Speaker 2>important that we are all going to like move inside

0:37:48.280 --> 0:37:52.560
<v Speaker 2>of it. So on your point about creativity, so long

0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:58.640
<v Speaker 2>winded sort of explanation or exploration of the idea, I mean,

0:37:58.960 --> 0:38:02.799
<v Speaker 2>I think that we seeing there's an explosion of creativity

0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:05.440
<v Speaker 2>because of devices like the iPhone and the iPad. I

0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:08.359
<v Speaker 2>assume things like mid Journey and some of the AI

0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:13.440
<v Speaker 2>stuff's happening continue some expansion in some ways of some

0:38:13.480 --> 0:38:17.080
<v Speaker 2>of that entire industry has been built around what modern

0:38:17.120 --> 0:38:20.720
<v Speaker 2>technology allows us to do right. Like the podcast industry,

0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:23.000
<v Speaker 2>for instance, like would not exist quite the way it

0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:26.240
<v Speaker 2>does if it hadn't become so wildly accessible for someone

0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:29.000
<v Speaker 2>to like create, to record, and to edit and to

0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:30.759
<v Speaker 2>put a thing on the internet and then to share

0:38:30.800 --> 0:38:31.520
<v Speaker 2>it with other people.

0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:34.879
<v Speaker 1>There may be some new innovations to be had.

0:38:34.920 --> 0:38:38.440
<v Speaker 2>There may be, you know, variations on themes like the

0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:41.880
<v Speaker 2>next time a game like The Last of Us is

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.480
<v Speaker 2>really impactful, it might be because you're playing it in

0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:47.080
<v Speaker 2>a headset like this, But I don't think it fundamentally

0:38:47.160 --> 0:38:51.040
<v Speaker 2>changes where we are at creatively. But I also don't

0:38:51.080 --> 0:38:53.600
<v Speaker 2>think this is like an inflection point. They make some

0:38:54.000 --> 0:38:57.040
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these. It is yet to be demonstrated

0:38:57.280 --> 0:38:59.760
<v Speaker 2>how this creates the inflection point that takes us somewhere

0:38:59.760 --> 0:39:03.440
<v Speaker 2>really dramatically different. And until I see that, until I

0:39:03.480 --> 0:39:05.839
<v Speaker 2>can really palpably see that, I'm sort of not I'm

0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:09.120
<v Speaker 2>not sold. I'm sold only on the continuation of a

0:39:09.560 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 2>fairly interesting peak into a fairly middling or uninteresting valley,

0:39:15.280 --> 0:39:17.200
<v Speaker 2>which is where we currently sit.

0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:20.440
<v Speaker 4>So Apple lost it like luster a little bit?

0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:21.480
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:25.680
<v Speaker 2>No, yes, yes, but Apple's loss is luster since I

0:39:25.680 --> 0:39:29.719
<v Speaker 2>mean there's no iPhone post iPhone. There's only improvements on

0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:32.359
<v Speaker 2>the iPhone conceptually that and it gets better and better,

0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:33.719
<v Speaker 2>and then it kind of levels off, and it's sort

0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:35.520
<v Speaker 2>of like, yeah, it's pretty good, and it will be

0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 2>everything sort of like incremental, like better cameras, better, more storage,

0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:43.400
<v Speaker 2>better battery life, like more things you can do in

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:46.680
<v Speaker 2>the software. Though the software itself is like largely unchanged

0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:48.680
<v Speaker 2>in about like twelve years of its existence. You have

0:39:48.680 --> 0:39:51.640
<v Speaker 2>to remember, it's only twelve years or something like that,

0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:53.919
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and seven, right, So it's however, many years

0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:57.160
<v Speaker 2>not that many. You know, Apples had plenty of failures.

0:39:57.239 --> 0:39:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Apples had plenty of products that fail, and they've had

0:39:59.520 --> 0:40:02.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot in the past a few years that are

0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:05.200
<v Speaker 2>just fine, that are fine whatever. It's good, you know,

0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:07.719
<v Speaker 2>like the iPad's cool, like does some really interesting things.

0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:10.799
<v Speaker 2>The watch is cool, doesn't really interesting things. Certainly helped

0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:14.720
<v Speaker 2>to define a market and made Apple a lot of money. Again,

0:40:14.800 --> 0:40:16.880
<v Speaker 2>they are just extensions of the phone. They are just

0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:21.359
<v Speaker 2>simply an augmentation and a variation of the exact same thing.

0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:26.040
<v Speaker 2>The surfaces are changing slightly, but the actual functionality is

0:40:26.040 --> 0:40:27.840
<v Speaker 2>is just a kind of a little bit of a

0:40:27.920 --> 0:40:32.000
<v Speaker 2>satellite of the of the phone. The next phone is

0:40:32.040 --> 0:40:32.399
<v Speaker 2>the thing?

0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:32.960
<v Speaker 1>What is that.

0:40:33.040 --> 0:40:34.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't think Apple has that. I don't think Apple's

0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:37.239
<v Speaker 2>done that. I think everything's very incremental right now. And

0:40:37.280 --> 0:40:40.399
<v Speaker 2>so have they lost their luster? I mean, Apples had

0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:43.120
<v Speaker 2>hits and they've had misses for their entire career. Steve Jobs.

0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:44.719
<v Speaker 2>People talk about Steve Jobs like he was like could

0:40:44.760 --> 0:40:46.840
<v Speaker 2>do no wrong. But there are plenty of things that

0:40:46.920 --> 0:40:50.080
<v Speaker 2>Apple has released that Steve Jobs really loved. That was

0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:53.759
<v Speaker 2>like a total whiff, you know. I mean, they collaborated

0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:56.719
<v Speaker 2>with like Motorola on like an iTunes phone. It was

0:40:56.760 --> 0:40:58.879
<v Speaker 2>like completely stupid, and nobody liked it and nobody cared

0:40:58.880 --> 0:41:01.480
<v Speaker 2>about and it wasn't a success, But people don't remember

0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:04.040
<v Speaker 2>it because it was a kind of an afterthought. Once

0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:06.719
<v Speaker 2>you do an iPhone doesn't kind of matter if you've

0:41:06.719 --> 0:41:08.759
<v Speaker 2>had a couple of misses before that. So you know,

0:41:08.840 --> 0:41:10.960
<v Speaker 2>this could be the lead up to the next, to

0:41:11.000 --> 0:41:13.799
<v Speaker 2>the to the right one, per what we've heard, per

0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:16.920
<v Speaker 2>what Mark talked about. But you know, I mean it's

0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:19.120
<v Speaker 2>just we're in a valley. We're in a technological valley.

0:41:19.480 --> 0:41:21.800
<v Speaker 2>We're still figuring out what it is that we're supposed

0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:23.480
<v Speaker 2>to be doing. With all this technology and it's put

0:41:23.520 --> 0:41:26.520
<v Speaker 2>us in this like, you know, it can't be extended.

0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:29.040
<v Speaker 2>It can't be boom times all the time. It can't

0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:34.080
<v Speaker 2>be extended innovation, endless innovation, endless change. There has to

0:41:34.120 --> 0:41:36.000
<v Speaker 2>be some period of settling, and I just think we're

0:41:36.040 --> 0:41:38.400
<v Speaker 2>still in a period of settling. We're not going to

0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:40.960
<v Speaker 2>be able to envision the next thing right now. And

0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:42.759
<v Speaker 2>if we could do that, then we'd be you and

0:41:42.840 --> 0:41:46.239
<v Speaker 2>I would be extremely rich and famous, and we're only

0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:49.360
<v Speaker 2>a little bit rich and famous. So you know, you

0:41:49.360 --> 0:41:50.000
<v Speaker 2>know how that goes.

0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:51.719
<v Speaker 4>So you're not going to buy one this run, but

0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:53.680
<v Speaker 4>would you buy like a future.

0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:55.120
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean I'll probably buy one. I mean I'll

0:41:55.120 --> 0:41:55.760
<v Speaker 1>probably buy.

0:41:55.560 --> 0:41:57.880
<v Speaker 2>One, Okay, I mean, to be honest with you, like

0:41:58.920 --> 0:42:00.799
<v Speaker 2>at some point, I'll probably just fuck it. I'm gonna

0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:03.239
<v Speaker 2>buy one, you know, even just to play around with it,

0:42:03.280 --> 0:42:05.040
<v Speaker 2>even just so I know. I mean, I'm kind of

0:42:05.040 --> 0:42:06.920
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of a problem for me though, Like

0:42:06.960 --> 0:42:08.040
<v Speaker 2>I've got one of everything.

0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:09.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I will say this.

0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:11.400
<v Speaker 2>I think if I spend thirty five hundred dollars on

0:42:11.480 --> 0:42:12.440
<v Speaker 2>it and I take it home and I use it

0:42:12.440 --> 0:42:15.040
<v Speaker 2>for twenty minutes and I get nauseous. I will definitely

0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:18.440
<v Speaker 2>return it, like because like, I have a bunch of

0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:20.440
<v Speaker 2>VR headsets and I don't use any of them, and

0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:22.799
<v Speaker 2>I've played them. I've played with them and been like, Wow,

0:42:22.840 --> 0:42:27.400
<v Speaker 2>this is fucking awesome. But after an extended session, I

0:42:27.440 --> 0:42:31.160
<v Speaker 2>mean like fifteen or twenty minutes, I feel physically ill

0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:33.120
<v Speaker 2>and I can't keep using it because I'm going to,

0:42:33.280 --> 0:42:35.319
<v Speaker 2>like I feel like I'll throw up. That's like a

0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:38.480
<v Speaker 2>pretty huge barrier to using any of this stuff. So

0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:41.560
<v Speaker 2>take all of the whatever's going on aside. If this

0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:43.759
<v Speaker 2>makes you physically ill, it doesn't matter how cool it is.

0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:45.880
<v Speaker 2>It just doesn't if you just take drama mean to

0:42:45.960 --> 0:42:48.120
<v Speaker 2>use it. I don't think that's a slam dunk as

0:42:48.120 --> 0:42:48.560
<v Speaker 2>a product.

0:42:48.920 --> 0:42:51.720
<v Speaker 4>I wonder if there's like the ratio that like women

0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:53.920
<v Speaker 4>would put up with that moore than men, just because

0:42:53.920 --> 0:42:57.520
<v Speaker 4>like pregnant people are so often nachous that live through that.

0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:01.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I ah, look, I will. I would argue that.

0:43:03.040 --> 0:43:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Women have a higher tolerance for discomfort and suffering if

0:43:07.040 --> 0:43:10.120
<v Speaker 2>this world has showed us shown us anything, so I

0:43:10.120 --> 0:43:12.160
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. But nobody

0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:13.960
<v Speaker 2>wants to feel nauseous. I mean if you had, if

0:43:13.960 --> 0:43:15.719
<v Speaker 2>you had a choice between feeling nauseous and not, you

0:43:15.719 --> 0:43:17.800
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't like willingly make yourself nauseous.

0:43:17.880 --> 0:43:20.200
<v Speaker 4>Right now, I'm just giving Apple the marketing tools.

0:43:20.320 --> 0:43:24.960
<v Speaker 1>That's good. It's like pregnant women, you'll understand. Yeah, ladies, ladies,

0:43:25.280 --> 0:43:28.920
<v Speaker 1>it's better than being pregnant. Is that the pitch?

0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:31.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, because it only makes you nauseous for a short

0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:32.880
<v Speaker 4>time period that's supposed to extend it.

0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting.

0:43:34.480 --> 0:43:36.160
<v Speaker 2>I think we got to workshop that a little bit

0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:39.000
<v Speaker 2>before we take it to Tim and Co. But I

0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:42.560
<v Speaker 2>like where you're headed with it. It's interesting. Here's what

0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:47.680
<v Speaker 2>I've come to from a conclusion standpoint. Either I'm finally

0:43:48.120 --> 0:43:51.120
<v Speaker 2>so old and out of touch that I just don't

0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:55.120
<v Speaker 2>get it man, or Apple is it can only be

0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:57.319
<v Speaker 2>one of those things. It can only be one. It

0:43:57.320 --> 0:44:00.480
<v Speaker 2>can only be that I don't get it. My you know,

0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:04.359
<v Speaker 2>ability to gauge what is and is not cool or

0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:07.839
<v Speaker 2>good is somehow gone now. Or this is a bad,

0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 2>bad dumb idea and Apple's blowing it. I think it's

0:44:12.160 --> 0:44:14.680
<v Speaker 2>the latter. I feel pretty strongly it is. That doesn't

0:44:14.680 --> 0:44:17.719
<v Speaker 2>mean it can't be successful. Lots of stupid things are

0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:23.399
<v Speaker 2>very successful, like Avatar for instance, but it does feel

0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:25.359
<v Speaker 2>a little bit like, yeah, I don't see it. I'm

0:44:25.360 --> 0:44:29.200
<v Speaker 2>going trouble seeing it. For the succession fans out here,

0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:32.000
<v Speaker 2>the presentation felt a lot like a living plus kind

0:44:32.040 --> 0:44:39.319
<v Speaker 2>of vibe. I'm not loving it, as they say, well,

0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:40.960
<v Speaker 2>I think I can safely say that as our show

0:44:41.000 --> 0:44:43.600
<v Speaker 2>for this week. We will be back next week with

0:44:43.760 --> 0:44:46.440
<v Speaker 2>more what Future, and as always, I wish you and

0:44:46.520 --> 0:44:48.640
<v Speaker 2>your family the very best.