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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to what Future.

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Speaker 2: I am your host, Josh Witzapolski, and I gotta say,

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Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, folks, it's the beginning of the end,

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Speaker 2: or where is the end of the beginning? I think

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Speaker 2: we're all grappling with the new reality that we're in,

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Speaker 2: the reality of Apple's VR headset, the Vision Pro, a

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Speaker 2: thirty five dollars device that looks like a pair of

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Speaker 2: ski goggles and also like every other VR headset that

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Speaker 2: is going to change the world or absolutely not change

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Speaker 2: the world, as you may know. As you probably know,

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Speaker 2: last week, we had on Mark German from Bloomberg whotually

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Speaker 2: perfectly got pretty much all of these announcements reported out

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Speaker 2: ahead of Apple's actual event, and we talked a lot

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Speaker 2: about this thing, and I though, to be honest, I

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Speaker 2: was a little bit in disbelief when we discussed it.

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Speaker 2: My feeling was, this thing seemed everything I was hearing

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Speaker 2: seemed so unlike the company and the way that they

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Speaker 2: release things and the types of things they released, that

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Speaker 2: it all just sounded like weird sort of fantasy. And yet,

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Speaker 2: as we discovered on Monday, it's not fantasy. They've created

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Speaker 2: this fucking face computer that I guess their idea is

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Speaker 2: it's going to kind of do a little bit of everything.

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Speaker 2: You can play games in it.

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Speaker 1: You can.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm scrolling as i'm talking. I'm scrolling the website

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Speaker 2: for this, and there's a picture of a woman sitting

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Speaker 2: on a sofa who presumably appears to be talking to

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Speaker 2: a man. I'm gonna say it might be her boyfriend

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Speaker 2: or husband. It kind of looks like they're pretty cozy here.

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Speaker 2: She's wearing this headset, she's smiling at him, She's wearing

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Speaker 2: these crazy goggles, and there's the outside of the headset

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Speaker 2: has a screen that shows like what appears to be

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Speaker 2: your eyes inside the headset, but they're not your eyes.

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Speaker 2: They're a video of your eyes that's being shot from

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Speaker 2: inside of the headset. Anyhow, They're sitting on the sofa

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Speaker 2: in this kind of like cozy environment, and it is

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Speaker 2: like the most ridiculous, one of the stupidest looking things

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen in my entire life. And I just

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Speaker 2: want to say, I'm not trying to be I'm not

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Speaker 2: trying to nag, you know, Apple, I'm not trying to say, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, they stink and they can't do anything right,

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Speaker 2: and this thing is going to be a failure. But

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Speaker 2: it is such a weird and jarring concept, such a

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Speaker 2: jarring vision again no pun intended for the future, that

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of trouble kind of taking it seriously.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, look, and I've said this before

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Speaker 2: and I will say it again. Early on, I was

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Speaker 2: a huge, huge fan of where virtual reality can go

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Speaker 2: and what it could be. And I have no doubt

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Speaker 2: that Apple is going to move the ball forward with

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Speaker 2: this thing. But the thing that they introduced feels so

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Speaker 2: not right for this moment. It just sort of like

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Speaker 2: baffles me. It's a baffling I feel, a totally baffling device.

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Speaker 1: Anyhow.

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Speaker 2: So I've been thinking about it a lot, obviously, because

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Speaker 2: it's I mean, certainly, at the very least, it's the

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Speaker 2: most interesting thing Apple has done in a pretty long time,

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Speaker 2: good or bad. It's definitely not not ambitious, it's definitely

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Speaker 2: not not fucking weird, you know, and I gotta do

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Speaker 2: you gotta throw them a bone for that. I do,

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Speaker 2: got a hand it to them. They have certainly released

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Speaker 2: a product that you know, swinging for the fences, as

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Speaker 2: they say in some in some way. But anyhow, before

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Speaker 2: they release it. We you know, we had on Mark German.

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Speaker 2: He talked about what was going to happen and it

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Speaker 2: all came true, and I thought we have to have

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Speaker 2: him come back on and just do a little like

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Speaker 2: post game breakdown. And so Mark is here with us,

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Speaker 2: and I just want to get into hearing his thoughts

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Speaker 2: on this very strange.

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Speaker 1: New reality that we're living in.

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Speaker 2: All right, Look, we had to get you back on, okay,

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Speaker 2: because I mean we just had this conversation like less

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Speaker 2: than a week ago, right, I mean.

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Speaker 1: You've got to feel pretty good. I guess you know

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Speaker 1: at this point, but like.

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Speaker 2: You, I mean, you literally had this entire story and

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Speaker 2: end like pretty much everything we talked about on the podcast,

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Speaker 2: certainly everything you wrote about over a long period of time,

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Speaker 2: but particularly the last piece you did on this headset.

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Speaker 2: You got everything pretty much down like exactly as it is.

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Speaker 2: So first off, congratulations, that's it's a rare feed. I

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Speaker 2: don't think people know how hard it is to get

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Speaker 2: that kind of level of scoop out of Apple.

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Speaker 3: On Apple specifically, it's challenging. I love to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, here's one thing I'm curious, and we can't go

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Speaker 2: into the full I know you only have a short

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Speaker 2: period of time, but yeah, you know, I'm sure there

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Speaker 2: is a part of people at Apple that must be

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Speaker 2: really mad at you because you like spoil their big surprise, right,

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Speaker 2: But your writing creates an aura of you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying that you're doing this on purpose. I know

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Speaker 2: you're just like writing shit that you get because you

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Speaker 2: love tracking it down and hunting it down. But it

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Speaker 2: helps to build the hype level to some degree when

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Speaker 2: there's all these like exciting rumors about these crazy things

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Speaker 2: they might do, Like do you have any interaction with

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Speaker 2: anybody at the company? Like do you talk to the

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Speaker 2: PR people there? I know it creates a lot of hype.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, you know, it's not like they

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Speaker 3: asked for that hype, right, They have their preferences about

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Speaker 3: how you know, things would roll. Yeah, they are professionals.

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Speaker 3: You know, you would expect nothing less from a company

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Speaker 3: like Apple. Yeah, they have some of the best people

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Speaker 3: there on the PR side and the marketing side, and

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Speaker 3: they're all pros pros.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'll leave it at that.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting because in my era of being

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Speaker 2: very interactive and covering Apple, I mean there's Steve Jobs

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Speaker 2: era into the early days of Tim and there was

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Speaker 2: a very different set of PR people. It is a

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Speaker 2: very different place in time, but I had I would

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Speaker 2: describe them as like screaming matches with or just being

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Speaker 2: screamed at by the PR people at Apple, where they

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Speaker 2: were like freaking out, like because we published shots that

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Speaker 2: somebody sent us off like a beta, like a Beta

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Speaker 2: iOS or whatever. After they released the Death Beta, somebody

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Speaker 2: sent us some shots and we published them and they

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Speaker 2: were like losing their shit. But a different era. I

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Speaker 2: think it's definitely a much more mature company, a completely

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Speaker 2: different company. Yeah, and I know Tim Cook actually kind

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Speaker 2: of did a whole house cleaning on the PR side

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Speaker 2: of it. Like I think there's a whole new group

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Speaker 2: of people there at this point over the last few years.

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Speaker 2: But that's the least interest thing. So they've introduced this thing.

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Speaker 2: It's fucking insane looking. Can we can we just talk

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Speaker 2: for a second about they released the headsets Vision Pro.

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Speaker 1: Is that what it's called, or just Apple Vision? What

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Speaker 1: is it called? It's the Apple Vision Pro. Were you

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Speaker 1: surprised about the name?

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Speaker 3: The name thing was interesting, So I had heard back

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Speaker 3: in early twenty twenty two that they were thinking of

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Speaker 3: calling it the Apple Vision. So I wrote at the

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Speaker 3: beginning in twenty twenty two that my best guess would

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Speaker 3: be that it's called the Apple Vision, right, And then

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Speaker 3: you were like, you just want to be sure to

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Speaker 3: say you got this originally you had this, yes, And

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Speaker 3: then in August of last year they trademarked Reality Pro right,

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Speaker 3: and so that became the working title to me, right,

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Speaker 3: and then internally they changed the name of the OS

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Speaker 3: from Reality OS to XROS, and then they end up

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Speaker 3: announcing it as the Vision Pro with visions right. And

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Speaker 3: they didn't tell anyone working on the product that it

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Speaker 3: was called Vision OS. Interesting, they had kept telling everyone

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Speaker 3: working the product that it was called XROS.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: So if you watch any of the developer sessions over

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Speaker 3: the course of this week related to the headset, all

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Speaker 3: of the sessions are called XROS. Really, yes, all the

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Speaker 3: references or XROS, all the Apple engineers call it XROS.

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Speaker 1: But XROS is not a thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're eliminating that, right. But Apple Marketing didn't tell

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Speaker 3: Apple Engineering that they had shifted from XROS to Vision OS, right. Well,

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Speaker 3: the fact that they're marking it as the pro makes

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Speaker 3: it pretty clear that there's the non pro coming to

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Speaker 3: which is coming about two years from now, half years.

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Speaker 1: Two years until now. This doesn't give me available until

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Speaker 1: early twenty twenty four, they said, Right, they're not even

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Speaker 1: selling it right anytime soon?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: And then I don't know if you saw my tweet

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Speaker 3: from earlier today, but were you covering Apple and fourteen still?

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Speaker 1: Definitely when they announced the Apple Watch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Actually that was one of the one of the

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Speaker 2: last ones where I did the event and review and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I did it for Bloomberg.

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Speaker 2: Actually I was at Bloomberg at the time, so I

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Speaker 2: actually went out there from Bloomberg. But yeah, I was

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Speaker 2: there in twenty fourteen. What's the deal with that?

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Speaker 3: Well, when they announced the watch in twenty fourteen, that

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Speaker 3: was September, they said would be launching an early twenty fifteen, right,

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Speaker 3: It didn't go on sale until the end of April.

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Speaker 3: And even then, ye could get one anywhere.

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Speaker 1: That's it, right, I remember I.

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Speaker 3: Didn't get mine until mid May, end of May, right, yep.

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Speaker 3: And so they're saying early twenty twenty four. Notice they're

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Speaker 3: saying early next year versus early twenty twenty four by

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Speaker 3: the way.

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Speaker 2: Right, stee, They they didn't say twenty twenty four early

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Speaker 2: next year?

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Speaker 3: Okay, interesting because early twenty twenty four sounds farther away

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Speaker 3: than early next year, right.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Also next year is more vague than twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Twenty twenty four sounds very concrete. Sure, not that there's

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Speaker 2: any wiggle room there really, but yeah, I see what

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Speaker 2: you're saying. So you tweeted something the day of the

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Speaker 2: event that I thought was interesting, and I have been

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Speaker 2: pondering it quite a bit. You tweeted, have they shown

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Speaker 2: any pictures of anybody in the headset? They had a

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Speaker 2: picture of Tim Cook standing next to the headset.

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Speaker 3: Which is weird, right, if it's your big thing to

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Speaker 3: set the standard for your career, I mean, legacy builder,

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Speaker 3: you want a one wearing.

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Speaker 1: They're all wearing Apple watches, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they'll hold the iPhone.

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Speaker 2: Right, I think, And a lot of people and You're

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Speaker 2: in the replies pointed out what I think is probably

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Speaker 2: part of it. People were like, Oh, it's because they

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Speaker 2: don't want memes to be made of them wearing the headset.

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Speaker 2: But that in and of itself, and that's why I

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Speaker 2: think it's interesting. The fact that they know that a

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Speaker 2: picture of them in the headset will become some kind

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Speaker 2: of joke on the internet, right to me, suggests like,

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Speaker 2: and that was my point, right, Here's here's what I

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Speaker 2: was most surprised about with this thing, because frankly, I

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Speaker 2: wasn't ready to be surprised at all, given the fact

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Speaker 2: that you had gotten the entire thing. But it looks

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Speaker 2: so much like a fucking quest or, like you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean, it looks like a VR headset. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't look like when in my mind's eye, when I

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Speaker 2: think of what Apple can do, like from a hardware perspective,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, this is going to just totally upend my

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Speaker 2: idea of what these things look like. But it really

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Speaker 2: kind of looks like a nice a really nice quest. Well,

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Speaker 2: let me tell you what surprising to me. The back portion,

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Speaker 2: like the padding in the back of your head. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that looked way bigger than I expected. Yeah, and that

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Speaker 2: things mass. It's clunky. It's a clunky device. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I tweeted a picture of they have this woman sitting

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Speaker 2: alone on a sofa with it on, and it's like

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Speaker 2: a massive apparatus. Joanna Stern from The Wall Street Journal

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Speaker 2: used that she wrote about it. She said it was

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Speaker 2: like heavy, it was like hurt her nose. What's your

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Speaker 2: impression of the reaction from people on this, like you,

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Speaker 2: what have you seen out there?

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Speaker 3: I don't need too much mind to a thirty minute demo.

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Speaker 3: And what that means for the product long term, My

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Speaker 3: personal opinion is that it's going to be incredibly slow

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Speaker 3: for the first year, even the first three to five years.

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Speaker 3: This is the most controlled Apple launch you'll ever see.

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Speaker 3: It's available only in the US and only from direct

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Speaker 3: Apple sales channels right right, And so that's a rarity.

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Speaker 3: Both of those things are.

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Speaker 1: That means stores though, right, just from stores.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what I mean is you're not going to be

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Speaker 3: able to buy it a Best Buyer, Target or Walmart

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Speaker 3: or whatever. It's going to be Apple only right in

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Speaker 3: only the US, which is a rarety for them.

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Speaker 2: There used to be periods where it was very hard

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Speaker 2: to get Apple, certain Apple products like weren't readily available everywhere,

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Speaker 2: Like this is going to be one of those products.

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Speaker 3: Obviously that's the old Apple, right, and that's you know,

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Speaker 3: coming back to fruition here, right, They're going to have

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Speaker 3: to release an iPhone app to consumers or a feature

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Speaker 3: in the Apple Store app before the headset comes out

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Speaker 3: that allows you to do the whole face scanning thing

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Speaker 3: that they were doing, right, because you can't do that

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Speaker 3: through the web browser right order it, so you'll have

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Speaker 3: to do the face scanning before you order it online. Wow,

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Speaker 3: or you'll have to do it in the store. So

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Speaker 3: that's going to be a really new way to buy

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Speaker 3: a product. The whole prescription lenses.

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Speaker 1: Thing, well, yeah, that was. You were right on that,

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent right on that.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because I was tweeting about it with people

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Speaker 2: and they're like, that's not confirmed, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: let's just wait a minute to it happens.

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Speaker 3: Literally, Like the lens thing, Yeah, okay, how much do

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Speaker 3: you think the lenses are? Someone who I spoke to

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Speaker 3: today and this person has no idea, but they just

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Speaker 3: threw out this random thousand dollars number for the lenses.

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Speaker 2: I mean, expensive glasses can be right like in that

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Speaker 2: range the actual lenses themselves, like from my glasses that

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Speaker 2: are like good lenses?

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Speaker 1: Is you know? I don't.

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Speaker 2: I think if you have a strong prescription the price

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Speaker 2: goes up a bit, but I mean a few hundred

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Speaker 2: dollars probably minimum, right.

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Speaker 3: Two point fifteen insurance? Right, what insurance covers?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: If you go to your insurance you're like, I really

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Speaker 2: need to use this Apple VR headset for work or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You know, maybe, but what do you how about this? Okay,

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Speaker 2: so you're like, it's a long it's a slow climb.

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Speaker 2: We talked about that a little bit last time. Right, Obviously,

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Speaker 2: you know people who are have some real inside track

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Speaker 2: at the company. Have you heard anything from internally about

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Speaker 2: how the reception has been taken or how the reaction

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Speaker 2: from from people has been taken. Do you know, have

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Speaker 2: any sense from inside the building what they what they're feeling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, it's still too early at this point.

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Speaker 3: From people who were there, what they told me the loudest,

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Speaker 3: the loudest reaction was at the price point, rather than

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Speaker 3: anything specific to the headset and such.

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Speaker 2: Well, the price point's crazy. I mean they had a

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Speaker 2: lot of crazy price points at the event. And what

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Speaker 2: it's an M two Mac Pro like desktop grand seven

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: Either a thousand or two thousand more than the Intel version.

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Speaker 3: It's really expensive, really expensive. That was crazy pricing.

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Speaker 2: And but then thirty five hundred for this headset. Definitely

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Speaker 2: took it out of the realm of nobody believed that.

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Speaker 2: I've been telling people for months, this is going to

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Speaker 2: be more expensive. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, it's just

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Speaker 2: like the iPad. Ever, you thought it was a grand,

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Speaker 2: but it was half the price this is going to be.

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Speaker 1: It's true.

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Speaker 2: I actually I thought the same thing when we were

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Speaker 2: watching it. I was like, Okay, but they're going to

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Speaker 2: hit us with like a fifteen hundred dollars price point

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Speaker 2: or something crazy, and they will sell, and they will

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Speaker 2: sell like a shitload of them right off the bat.

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Speaker 3: But don't forget there's more evidence in context than I

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Speaker 3: had just from people telling me it's going to be

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Speaker 3: three grand plus.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: I was also told, and I've reported many times, that

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Speaker 3: they're expecting high one hundred thousands to a million unit sales.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: If this thing was priced that two thousand or below,

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Speaker 3: they would need more than a million units, Josh, because

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Speaker 3: everyone would buy one.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, I mean a large amount of people would

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Speaker 1: buy them.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: I am still stuck, And obviously we're not going to

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Speaker 2: resolve this here because I know you have limited time.

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Speaker 2: But I am totally blown away by the fact that,

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Speaker 2: no matter what they said and did, I have a

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Speaker 2: mental block when I look at the device, it is

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Speaker 2: so similar to the things that have not worked. It

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Speaker 2: is so similar, even the interface, Like when they showed it,

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Speaker 2: you've used the quest, right, so you're familiar with the whole,

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Speaker 2: the whole. They have the whole, this panel interface with

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Speaker 2: these like icons and stuff. And not to say that

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Speaker 2: Apple isn't going to completely knock that shit out of

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Speaker 2: the water, but the consumer side of this still baffles me.

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Speaker 2: The idea that like your average consumer and I know

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Speaker 2: right now it's not the average consumer, but I feel

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Speaker 2: like we're so far away from this becoming a really

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Speaker 2: viable product, and like, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting

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Speaker 2: that none of the executives put it on. I mean

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Speaker 2: I find that to be I find that to be

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Speaker 2: like a huge kind of tell on their part.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's biz all ar.

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Speaker 3: You know, for years people have been saying that the

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Speaker 3: hardware of Apple products is way ahead of the software.

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Speaker 3: I think this is a unique situation where the user

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Speaker 3: interface interactions, the user interface design. I would rate the

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Speaker 3: OS look and feel and what they're showing there as

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Speaker 3: an a hardware design probably is a b right, And

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Speaker 3: this is without using it and seeing it in person, it.

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Speaker 2: Just feels like a million little compromises you can see.

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Speaker 3: Like that's that was the idea from the beginning, because

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Speaker 3: the non compromised product is not something that's feasible, right,

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Speaker 3: and had to build this compromised product that they're going

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Speaker 3: to bring something to market. I for one, think it's

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Speaker 3: going to be hugely successful long term. You do, I

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Speaker 3: do the iPhone cannibalized the iPod. Yeah, the iPad had

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Speaker 3: mac cannibalization potential. I think this has iPhone ipen and

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Speaker 3: mac cannibalization potential.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: You say that because John Gruber wrote an essay about humane.

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Speaker 2: I assume you've read this right. He wrote a piece

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Speaker 2: about humane and he basically was like, you know, making

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00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 2: a replacement for something that people hate is really pretty easy,

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Speaker 2: like getting them to convince them that's something you know,

359
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Speaker 2: that they can replace the thing they hate with something better.

360
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Speaker 2: But getting them to replace something they love is really

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Speaker 2: a huge climb. And I think, like if you think

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Speaker 2: about it on those terms, I thought it was a

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Speaker 2: really interesting passage that is fascinating because, like I think

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Speaker 2: the Humane device is a similar kind of like it's

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Speaker 2: like way outside the box, right, I.

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Speaker 3: Think the Humane device is way more outside the box

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Speaker 3: than the Apple device.

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Speaker 2: Well, right, but like if you're like, okay, the headset

369
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 2: or an iPhone, Like there's so many trade offs with

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00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 2: the headset, we're so far away from that being the

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00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,480
Speaker 2: viable alternative, and like do people are people going to

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Speaker 2: fall in love with it the way they fell in

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Speaker 2: love with the iPhone? It's a it's a steep climb, right.

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Speaker 3: The iPhone quickly took off, and it was pretty much

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Speaker 3: you would add that ideal right from the get go,

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Speaker 3: maybe the second generation, right, the headset's going to take

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00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,280
Speaker 3: four or five generations to get to the place where

378
00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 3: I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: Well, the funny thing about the iPhone, if you think

380
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 2: about it, is like it was a compromise device when

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Speaker 2: they released it. There was a ton of compromise, right.

382
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 2: It didn't have Remember it had edge when a lot

383
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,679
Speaker 2: of phones had already gone to three G. Its screen

384
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,200
Speaker 2: was really small by comparison to to well and really

385
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,160
Speaker 2: not other devices, but it was a small, pretty small.

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Speaker 3: It became the iPhone screen size became way too small

387
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,160
Speaker 3: within three years, right.

388
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 2: But no, that was like a big screen actually I guess, so, yeah,

389
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,399
Speaker 2: that's true. But there was no copy and paste, there

390
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 2: was no apps. There was all this stuff that wasn't

391
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,719
Speaker 2: on that was on the cimer room floor. But it

392
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,120
Speaker 2: took a thing that was really not great that everybody

393
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 2: was using and made a version of it that was

394
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 2: so much better, such a huge leap that it was like, oh,

395
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Speaker 2: I can never look at that other thing again, right,

396
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 2: Like I'm never going to go back to a BlackBerry

397
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,239
Speaker 2: after this, right, I don't know they got there with

398
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 2: the with the headset.

399
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 3: The headset's not really replacing a device that everyone hates, right.

400
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,719
Speaker 3: I think the first point that you mentioned is right

401
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,000
Speaker 3: where the bar is higher, because you're trying to replace

402
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,120
Speaker 3: things that you already love and use every day. Whereas

403
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 3: in terms of the iPhone cannibalizing the iPod, if you

404
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 3: really think about it based on that context, it's even

405
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,440
Speaker 3: more what they were able to pull off with the

406
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 3: iPod to the iPhone transition, because they killed something that

407
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Speaker 3: everyone loved right hundred.

408
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,159
Speaker 2: Percent, but they killed it with a thing that was

409
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 2: the same thing and had all those features right plus more.

410
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,720
Speaker 2: But when you were watching the presentation. Were you there

411
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 2: or were you just watching remotely? Oh?

412
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:16,479
Speaker 3: I saw it remotely.

413
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 2: Did not feel to you like pretty just took pretty

414
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,679
Speaker 2: black mirror some of the parts of the presentation.

415
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,679
Speaker 3: There were some demos, like the guy playing with his

416
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,720
Speaker 3: kids wearing it's a It seems quite ridiculous to me.

417
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 3: And then right, they're gonna also step on their own

418
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,359
Speaker 3: toes in three years when they release an iPhone that

419
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 3: can take three D pictures and you have to have

420
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 3: that whole you know, motorcycle helmet on your head to

421
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 3: doom Bault team.

422
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: Is that a plan or they are they doing that?

423
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,360
Speaker 3: No, I'm just I mean, you hit thought to imagine

424
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 3: that's something they're going to try to do if they're

425
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 3: able to integrate a three D camera into a phone.

426
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the thing with the kids was pretty weird,

427
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,879
Speaker 2: like the guy sitting on the sofa watching the picture

428
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 2: of his kids or watching the video of his kids playing. Like,

429
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 2: I know we all look at pictures on our phone

430
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 2: or whatever, but there's some something real sci fi, like

431
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 2: not in a fun way about this idea of you,

432
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 2: like being strapped into this device watching a moving image

433
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 2: of your family.

434
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 3: I will say though, on a high level. They surprised

435
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,439
Speaker 3: me with how well they positioned it. I thought they

436
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,359
Speaker 3: were going to go in a totally different direction, Like

437
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,920
Speaker 3: what direction they did exactly what I thought they should

438
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 3: have done, and market it as the future of the computer.

439
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:23,919
Speaker 1: Right now. You said that, you said that on the

440
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 1: on the last show, you were like, soid.

441
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 3: That's what people working on it it should be marketed as,

442
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,360
Speaker 3: and what their aim was. But it was very possible

443
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 3: that Apple marketing would take it in a different direction and

444
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 3: make it more of a companion device. But if they

445
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 3: really marketed it correctly, which they did, I think it

446
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 3: has a long term potential.

447
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 2: I mean the pitch was sort of like, for thirty

448
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars, it replaces your computer.

449
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: Yes, which is a great thing you're I mean it.

450
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 2: Sort of was like, I mean, it can't replace your

451
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 2: phone because it doesn't have a SIM, right, it's not cellular.

452
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 3: Well, they'llood cellular, rightly.

453
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 2: They'll make the dial have a red line on it,

454
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: and then you'll know that that's a cellular headset. All right, Mark, listen,

455
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 2: I know you need to go. You're a very busy man.

456
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 2: You probably have thousands of people who have to congratulate you.

457
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 2: Now you have to do a high five session at

458
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 2: Bloomberg HQ.

459
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 3: One last thing, I'll say.

460
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: Yes, one more, one more thing, if you will actually

461
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: two more things.

462
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, most absurd thing from the presentation they said two

463
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 3: hours on the battery pack or all day battery life

464
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 3: when you're plugged in, like come.

465
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: On right all day when you're literally plugged into an

466
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: outlet right right.

467
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 3: The other thing I'll say is I still believe that

468
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 3: it's gonna start off very slow. Yeah, but I think

469
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 3: over time, if they can get the price point in

470
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 3: half and they can you know, chop down the design

471
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 3: a little bit, and they can highlight more of the

472
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 3: ar features and they get a really solid developer response,

473
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 3: I think long term it could be it could be

474
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 3: a smash hip. Are you gonna buy one?

475
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: Probably not, I mean honestly, I mean I don't know.

476
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 1: Maybe you know.

477
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 2: I say, it's like, here's the thing I say no

478
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: to shit all the time. I'm like, I'm not getting that,

479
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 2: and then I like go in a store and I

480
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 2: look at it and I'm like, ah, right, fine, thirty

481
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars.

482
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: Is a high bar.

483
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: Even like I'm the like I could certainly I could

484
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 2: afford one, but like I'm like thirty five hundred, what

485
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 2: am I gonna do with this thing? Like again the

486
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 2: other thing that's and this is actually a good point

487
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,959
Speaker 2: to we'll close on this, but it kind of speaks

488
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: to what you're saying about this long term plan. One

489
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 2: of the things Joanna said in her piece was it

490
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 2: made her nauseous when she used it. I get very

491
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 2: much And you talked about this on the show last

492
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 2: time the same way, and I get very motion sick

493
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: using VR stuff. I love it, like I've loved some

494
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 2: of the Quest experiences, but I'm like, damn, I gotta

495
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 2: take this thing off because I literally feel like I'm

496
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 2: going to throw up if they have not come up

497
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 2: with like a real magic bullet for fixing that for

498
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 2: a lot of people, I think that's a huge problem.

499
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 2: Like I know, the like being physically ill is not

500
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 2: like a little thing, right, It's like and I.

501
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 3: Get really ill from it. I am just thinking, you

502
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 3: know about it Yesterday's like I might use this thing

503
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 3: for two weeks and have to return.

504
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 2: It, right, And I think that's an experience that's It's

505
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 2: not Antennagate. This is way bigger it's like you made

506
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 2: a device that is actually making people. I can see

507
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 2: the stories now.

508
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 3: Because it's Apple. Yes, those stories will.

509
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: Happen, right, CMBC has the report people throwing up because

510
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: of their Apple headsets or whatever.

511
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,239
Speaker 3: The difference between Antennagate and this was intenegate. Apple blamed it,

512
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 3: said it was an industry problem when it wasn't an

513
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 3: industry problem, right nausea.

514
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: Actually, actually they could say it's an industry problem. All

515
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 2: these other headsets have had, you know, the problems with

516
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 2: this people get.

517
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 3: But this time it would be true, right to tenigate,

518
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 3: it wasn't true what they turned it into an industry

519
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 3: problem when it wasn't right this time, you know, the

520
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: nausea thing is an industry thing, and let's see what happens.

521
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,719
Speaker 3: But my point being is you can't really know that

522
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 3: from an Apple Store demo before you buy it.

523
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 2: No, if you use it for long enough, I guess

524
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 2: if they give you a ten minute demo, though they're

525
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 2: not gonna be able to give people ten minute demos, but.

526
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: Like it's just a reality of this.

527
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,239
Speaker 2: If they have not gotten the latency down and the

528
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 2: frame rate and the refresh rate of the screens up

529
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 2: and even then, I think it's still like not a

530
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 2: perfect solution.

531
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: Right, there's still like that.

532
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 3: Going start growing up upper ten minutes, right, it takes

533
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 3: you a good hour, So you're really going to have

534
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: to use this thing and see how it goes.

535
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody's different, there's different sensitivities. All I'm going

536
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: to say is like, there, I have yet to see

537
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 2: another Apple product that induces actual illness when you use it.

538
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of an Apple when you see

539
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: the right? No, I'm kidding.

540
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: Everybody just started immediately throwing up in the auditorium when

541
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: they saw the price.

542
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 3: I haven't heard of anyone personally who's used the device

543
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 3: who has had that.

544
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 2: Problem, right, Because there are all people at Apple, aren't

545
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: they They're not going to be like, oh yeah, by

546
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: the way, it was pukey and when we's jested out.

547
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,479
Speaker 3: I mean, I hadn't seen anyone other than Joanna say it,

548
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 3: which is curious.

549
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: So you're saying Joanna's lying fake news. No, that's not

550
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: what I'm saying.

551
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 3: Wow, that's not what I'm saying.

552
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 1: White an attack on her credibility, Mark. What I'm saying.

553
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 3: What I'm saying is is that Joanna cuts through the noise, right,

554
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 3: And I'm saying that it's possible that the demos were

555
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 3: so blow away that it was easy to maybe ignore

556
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 3: for sure that issue. It was a compliment with Joanna.

557
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: They didn't let that many people do hands on with it,

558
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: I mean, or an eyes on or whatever the fuck

559
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 2: we're calling it.

560
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: Did demos till ten pm on Reay and really probably

561
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 3: do the same till ten pm today and maybe throughout

562
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 3: the week.

563
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 2: But I mean comparatively, it's not like people could go

564
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: grab it and just try it out.

565
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: It's like they're doing it's all demos.

566
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: Watch the Good Morning America video, the interview with Tim

567
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 3: Cook and the interview that the anchor got. That's the

568
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 3: same demo everyone else is getting.

569
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: Oh did they show it? They have like a they

570
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: actually filmed that.

571
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 3: On the only like Good Morning America film the demo.

572
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 3: You can see the building they built for the demos,

573
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: in the room they're in. They put you on a couch.

574
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 3: It's in a controlled environment. Yeah, and so you can

575
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 3: see you know, you sit on a couch for thirty minutes,

576
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 3: you do all the demos they've programmed for you, and

577
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 3: you get to see people are people have been blown

578
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 3: away by this thing, but again a thirty minute demo,

579
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: you have to use it for a few weeks.

580
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: I have no doubt it's an incredible They have some

581
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: incredible features, and also you got to remember a lot

582
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: of those people probably are not I mean there's probably

583
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 2: a handful like the Good Morning America people.

584
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: How much VR do you think they've done?

585
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 4: Right?

586
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 3: I want to read the reviews when this thing ships

587
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 3: and they can use it for several days. I want

588
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 3: to read the reviews from the VR websites.

589
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 2: Right, Well, are they even going to work with those websites?

590
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: Do they even care about them? I'm sure they will

591
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 2: really because I feel like historically Apple likes to bypass

592
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: the geeky shit and go to like the mainstream for

593
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 2: this device.

594
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 3: They need that. They were all there at the conference

595
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 3: and I thought it was the right from out certainly

596
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 3: based on Apple's history, could have gone either way, but

597
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 3: I think they made the right decision there. Yeah, you

598
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 3: want that community to really talk this up because that's

599
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 3: the community that's going to buy this thing from the

600
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: get go.

601
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: Right? Is this a quest killer?

602
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 3: Like?

603
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: Is that it?

604
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: Or is it just the price points too high?

605
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 3: The delta on the price is so large that yeah,

606
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 3: you can't compare the two. What I will say though,

607
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 3: is the Meta is uh one sixth of the price.

608
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,719
Speaker 3: I still think it's not as bad as one's sixth

609
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 3: as the Apple thevist.

610
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 2: I mean, E mean it doesn't it's doesn't. It's not

611
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: one sixth as good or it's better.

612
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: It's not as point.

613
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 3: It's not one. Maybe it's two or three six.

614
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: I mean that's pretty, that's pretty. That's pretty damning, you know.

615
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: But if that's the best that we have to offer

616
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 2: right now, I mean maybe PSVR is. I mean it's

617
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 2: a totally different experience for a totally different purpose. But

618
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 2: I mean Apples certainly will become the best of this category.

619
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: There's no question.

620
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 3: Yes, I saw someone tweet this morning. Is the last

621
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 3: thing I'll say. I forgot who's who? Please forgive me

622
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: for not citing them. And I have the same exact thought.

623
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 3: Meta should license out like their metas.

624
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: Do you like an Android?

625
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, they should go the Android model and they'll crush it.

626
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, honestly, what would be really interesting is

627
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: to see some hardware creativity here because I think that

628
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: like eventually, someone's going to crack that magic place between

629
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: like it's not too big, it's not too bulky, it

630
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 2: doesn't look too weird, and it actually is like functions.

631
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 3: Well and watch it'll be Apple.

632
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: Well it'll be Apple, you know, on a long enough

633
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 2: timeline and they have infinite money. So that's good, like

634
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: I assume it will.

635
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: Mark.

636
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming back and talking about this again,

637
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: like ingrats on the scoops. Just super fucking awesome to

638
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: see it all like play out the way you wrote it.

639
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 3: Thank you and thank your team. Thank you so much. Bye,

640
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 3: see you.

641
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: Mark.

642
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: Is he's just great, is I have to say, first off,

643
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: and just an incredible ability, Like it's so rare just

644
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: to be able to do what he does, which is

645
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: to scoop the largest most valuable company in the world

646
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: on their own announcements an outrageous thing to do, and

647
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: to do it consistently and to get it like almost

648
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: perfectly right is fairly unusual.

649
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: So we'll have him back.

650
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: We're gonna have him share some more Apple secrets with

651
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 2: us next time he gets a nasty ass scoop.

652
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: Uh.

653
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: But but you know, I do have some more thoughts

654
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 2: about what this headset really means.

655
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 4: I did want to bring up that picture that you

656
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 4: posted on Twitter of like you wearing some sort of

657
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 4: like glasses from.

658
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,479
Speaker 1: Like oh yeah, Google Google, that's Google Glass.

659
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. I loved that.

660
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: Oh.

661
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: By the way, for the record, I just was writing,

662
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: you know, I was writing a piece for the for

663
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 2: the fucking Verge. It wasn't like I was like, I

664
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: bought these glasses and I'm wearing them.

665
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: Here. I'll put it in the link.

666
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:40,959
Speaker 4: That's what it looks like.

667
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: No, I know, but I know it's funny.

668
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: But like, you know, that's what happens when you like

669
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: review a product, is like you put them on and

670
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: then somebody takes a picture of you and then you

671
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: got to live with that for the rest of your life.

672
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: I look fucking so stupid this picture.

673
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: I look like a Jewish terminator is how I describe

674
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: my vibe right here. But this is actually way less

675
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: dumb than the Apple thing. Like this is super dumb

676
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: and embarrassing and like silly, but comparatively comparatively, think about

677
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: this versus what Apple is suggesting. Okay, the Apple thing

678
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: is like ten times as clunky and gigantic as this.

679
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: It's not cooler. I'm not saying this is cool, although

680
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: it's closer to like something you'd want, like an unobtrusive

681
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: small thing that's like a part of your glasses or something.

682
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: Right.

683
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: I think there's a famous picture of Mark Zuckerberg walking

684
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: down the aisle of one of his events where they

685
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 2: gave everybody an Oculus headset a quest or whatever, and

686
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: it looks like the most it's one of the most

687
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: dystopian photos of all time. And I think, when when

688
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: I look at this, and when I see like the

689
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: pictures on Apple's website of this woman I don't know,

690
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: hanging out on her sofa with her boyfriend or whatever,

691
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: and she's got these massive goggles on her face, it

692
00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like.

693
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: It doesn't spark excitement or joy for me, you know,

694
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: it just is like, what are we doing here, folks?

695
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: What are we doing? What's happening?

696
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: I think the thing that's most interesting about it, to

697
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: be honest, is how much I feel like the Apple's

698
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: just this whole thing just misjudges the moment of life

699
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: that we're in. Just I said this on the last podcast,

700
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: but it just feels like, Man, I want to breathe

701
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 2: fucking air. I want to be I want to I

702
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: want to touch grass. I want to be out on

703
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 2: an adventure somewhere and with like people I know and love,

704
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: Like I don't want to put something on my face

705
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: and be transported to like a virtual fucking office, which

706
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: is a lot of a lot of the a lot

707
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: of the stuff they showed was actually like you can

708
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: be at the office with this on and like we

709
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: do some work and it's like, yeah, that doesn't seem.

710
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: That great to me, you know.

711
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: Or you can watch your kids, you know, playing while

712
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: you're wearing this fucking thing on your face, like well,

713
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: you can't even actually interact with them properly like a

714
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: normal person. Not to say that holding a phone up

715
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: is any better. Maybe it's not. You know, maybe this

716
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: is better than holding it. It's not better than holding

717
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: a phone up.

718
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: It's not.

719
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: People have been holding cameras up forever. It's very similar

720
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: when you hold your phone up. But this is like

721
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 2: cutting literally cutting how off you're the main one of

722
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: the main ways you communicate with other people in the world.

723
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: I understand.

724
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: They have a digital projection of your eyes and when

725
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: you do a FaceTime shat, it creates a virtual three

726
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: D avatar of your face. I mean, the whole thing

727
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: just is like, is this just an elaborate setup for

728
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: the new season of Black Mirror? And by the way,

729
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: I hate the Black Mirror shit. Like I'm not a

730
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: big fan of Black Mirror because it's always like whoa

731
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 2: technology is fucked up? Man or whatever. That's the whole

732
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,719
Speaker 2: premise of the show is like technology right. But I

733
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: gotta say I maybe they were onto something. Maybe they're

734
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: onto something. Maybe they we should heed the warnings of

735
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: a British TV show, although that doesn't say on right

736
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: to me at all. And maybe I just need to

737
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: just jack into the matrix and call it a day.

738
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: Maybe I just need to jack into the matrix and

739
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 2: be done with it. Maybe I'm overthinking it. Maybe I'm

740
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: being a negative person. Maybe I'm being a suppressive person,

741
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: as they say in scientology. Maybe I'm being Maybe I'm

742
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: not an ot anything, I'm an OT zero, you know.

743
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: Maybe I just need to hop into this head first.

744
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure.

745
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: Can I ask you a question?

746
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 3: I have a question.

747
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: You can ask me anything you want. I would love

748
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: to hear. I would love a question.

749
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 4: Okay, So I remember when like the I pod came

750
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 4: out and the iPhone came out, these are all things

751
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 4: that are so cool because I like enhanced your living experience.

752
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 4: Right now, our options are you put on a headset

753
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 4: and you go into a different experience where you create

754
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 4: an avatar and go into like assumes like experience, right,

755
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 4: so the right futures so there, Yeah, they are out

756
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 4: of our current realities. So that to me feels like

757
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 4: we're just out of creativity, right.

758
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 2: I hear you're saying, we certainly are running out of ideas.

759
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: Like this is a great indicator that we're at a point,

760
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: we were at a value. I've actually I've talked about

761
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: this many times in the past. You know, there are

762
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: there are there are peaks and valleys to all of this.

763
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: You know, there there there is the build up and

764
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: the breakdown. And I think like if if the peak

765
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: is you know, the iPhone, because it really is from

766
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: a technology perspective, the peak of modern sort of technological

767
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: innovations is really the iPhone and the era that it begat,

768
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: which is this era of always on connectivity and social

769
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: sort of inter you know, always on digital social connectivity

770
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: and interaction with a device that kind of is to

771
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: do everything device that's the highest pinnacle of sort of

772
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: technological sort of upset that has happened in probably in

773
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: my lifetime. You could say the Internet, right, but actually

774
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: in some way the Internet's full the power in the

775
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: power in the terror of the Internet wasn't actually fully

776
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: encapsulated or realized until the Internet was like in our

777
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: hands all the time and in art like was where

778
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 2: our photos went and where we communicated, And that didn't

779
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: happen until the iPhone, it really did, and everything else

780
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: was like you had to sit down somewhere basically to

781
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 2: go and off to this other place.

782
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: So if that's the peak, and.

783
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: All of the things that begat are the kind of

784
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 2: like in the wake of the peak of this technological innovation,

785
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: then there has to be there will be naturally be

786
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: a value.

787
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: You can't have. It can't.

788
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: You can't keep hitting peaks over and over again with

789
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 2: this stuff. It's just not possible. Like, you can't. You're

790
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: not going to invent things that are that explosive on

791
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: such a regular cadence.

792
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: And if you look at the time of.

793
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 2: Technology that's been built post iPhone, there's been this you

794
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: know a huge amount of things that happened. Even like

795
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 2: if you look at like a tesla, a huge amount

796
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: of Like why Tesla was successful is because it borrowed

797
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 2: a lot of innovations from an iPhone. Like many many

798
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: things about the Tesla are a kind of reference to

799
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 2: or a nod to how the iPhone fund Even this

800
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 2: concept for us conceptually of like electric cars being like

801
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 2: a big phone you charge or whatever, has been made

802
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 2: more accessible by the existence of the iPhone. But in

803
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 2: the grand scheme of things, the Tesla is like a

804
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 2: car with a different engine. Right, It's not a total

805
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: reinvention of travel as we know it. So there hasn't

806
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 2: been an explose I'm just used as an example, but

807
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: there has not been an explosive next moment. And again,

808
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: all of the recent moments of innovation are a byproduct

809
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: in some way of the iPhone. You could make an

810
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 2: argument about sort of machine learning and AI stuff like chat,

811
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 2: GBT and mid journey. I think it's an explosive potential.

812
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: There's no iPhone of it. Yet, there isn't the iPhone thing,

813
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 2: the killer app that makes it the kind of the

814
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: delineating point between the thing before and the thing that

815
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: comes after. The VR headset, the vision pro And I'm

816
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: not saying this to be to downplay it or to

817
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: be negative, but it is a slight tweak on what

818
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: an iPhone is. The screen is in a different place,

819
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: the content is in a different place. Yes, certainly, VR

820
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: and AR there are different things that they allow. Yet

821
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: first person games that you play on your computer they

822
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 2: have a lot in common with what a VR game does.

823
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: It's just a little bit more of like you're immersed

824
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: fully visually in it versus you're only seventy percent immersed

825
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: in it or whatever AR. We do on our phones

826
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 2: all the time, so that that application of the digital

827
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: overlaid on the virtual. These are fairly familiar things, right.

828
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 2: Every time you use your camera to snap a QR

829
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: code and then take you to a website, you're using

830
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 2: AR in some way.

831
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: Right.

832
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: If you use your one of those measurement things to

833
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: measure on your phone, like, that's AR.

834
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: Right.

835
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 2: If you look at like some weird three D object

836
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: in your room, that's an AR. So all of this stuff,

837
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: like the sensor is, the cameras, the motion tracking, the

838
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 2: connectivity to your apps, all the surface that you see

839
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: when you work in it. It is not an explosive

840
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: new idea like it's always been this way and now

841
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: we've upended it. It's just like a continuation of, almost

842
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: an addendum to what the iPhone created. And so for me,

843
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: when I look at it, it's not that I don't

844
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: think it can be cool or exciting or interesting, and

845
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: I'm sure there will be implications with this, but the

846
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 2: idea that it's like the next peak technologically speaking, feels

847
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 2: like really like a vacant thought. It feels like a fake,

848
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: a phony, a put on about what real peaks look like.

849
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 2: And I don't think we have the moment, like this

850
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: is not the moment for this, Like I don't think

851
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 2: this is the where everybody was gravitating towards it and

852
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: then something just broke through that's so special and so

853
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 2: important that we are all going to like move inside

854
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 2: of it. So on your point about creativity, so long

855
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 2: winded sort of explanation or exploration of the idea, I mean,

856
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 2: I think that we seeing there's an explosion of creativity

857
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: because of devices like the iPhone and the iPad. I

858
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 2: assume things like mid Journey and some of the AI

859
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: stuff's happening continue some expansion in some ways of some

860
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: of that entire industry has been built around what modern

861
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 2: technology allows us to do right. Like the podcast industry,

862
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: for instance, like would not exist quite the way it

863
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 2: does if it hadn't become so wildly accessible for someone

864
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: to like create, to record, and to edit and to

865
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 2: put a thing on the internet and then to share

866
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: it with other people.

867
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: There may be some new innovations to be had.

868
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: There may be, you know, variations on themes like the

869
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 2: next time a game like The Last of Us is

870
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: really impactful, it might be because you're playing it in

871
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: a headset like this, But I don't think it fundamentally

872
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: changes where we are at creatively. But I also don't

873
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: think this is like an inflection point. They make some

874
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 2: a lot of these. It is yet to be demonstrated

875
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 2: how this creates the inflection point that takes us somewhere

876
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 2: really dramatically different. And until I see that, until I

877
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 2: can really palpably see that, I'm sort of not I'm

878
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: not sold. I'm sold only on the continuation of a

879
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: fairly interesting peak into a fairly middling or uninteresting valley,

880
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: which is where we currently sit.

881
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 4: So Apple lost it like luster a little bit?

882
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: No?

883
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: No, yes, yes, but Apple's loss is luster since I

884
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: mean there's no iPhone post iPhone. There's only improvements on

885
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 2: the iPhone conceptually that and it gets better and better,

886
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 2: and then it kind of levels off, and it's sort

887
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: of like, yeah, it's pretty good, and it will be

888
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: everything sort of like incremental, like better cameras, better, more storage,

889
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 2: better battery life, like more things you can do in

890
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: the software. Though the software itself is like largely unchanged

891
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: in about like twelve years of its existence. You have

892
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: to remember, it's only twelve years or something like that,

893
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, right, So it's however, many years

894
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: not that many. You know, Apples had plenty of failures.

895
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: Apples had plenty of products that fail, and they've had

896
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 2: a lot in the past a few years that are

897
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: just fine, that are fine whatever. It's good, you know,

898
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 2: like the iPad's cool, like does some really interesting things.

899
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 2: The watch is cool, doesn't really interesting things. Certainly helped

900
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 2: to define a market and made Apple a lot of money. Again,

901
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 2: they are just extensions of the phone. They are just

902
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 2: simply an augmentation and a variation of the exact same thing.

903
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: The surfaces are changing slightly, but the actual functionality is

904
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 2: is just a kind of a little bit of a

905
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: satellite of the of the phone. The next phone is

906
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 2: the thing?

907
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: What is that.

908
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: I don't think Apple has that. I don't think Apple's

909
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 2: done that. I think everything's very incremental right now. And

910
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 2: so have they lost their luster? I mean, Apples had

911
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: hits and they've had misses for their entire career. Steve Jobs.

912
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: People talk about Steve Jobs like he was like could

913
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 2: do no wrong. But there are plenty of things that

914
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: Apple has released that Steve Jobs really loved. That was

915
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 2: like a total whiff, you know. I mean, they collaborated

916
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: with like Motorola on like an iTunes phone. It was

917
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 2: like completely stupid, and nobody liked it and nobody cared

918
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 2: about and it wasn't a success, But people don't remember

919
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: it because it was a kind of an afterthought. Once

920
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 2: you do an iPhone doesn't kind of matter if you've

921
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: had a couple of misses before that. So you know,

922
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: this could be the lead up to the next, to

923
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 2: the to the right one, per what we've heard, per

924
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 2: what Mark talked about. But you know, I mean it's

925
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 2: just we're in a valley. We're in a technological valley.

926
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 2: We're still figuring out what it is that we're supposed

927
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: to be doing. With all this technology and it's put

928
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: us in this like, you know, it can't be extended.

929
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: It can't be boom times all the time. It can't

930
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: be extended innovation, endless innovation, endless change. There has to

931
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: be some period of settling, and I just think we're

932
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: still in a period of settling. We're not going to

933
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: be able to envision the next thing right now. And

934
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 2: if we could do that, then we'd be you and

935
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: I would be extremely rich and famous, and we're only

936
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 2: a little bit rich and famous. So you know, you

937
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: know how that goes.

938
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 4: So you're not going to buy one this run, but

939
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 4: would you buy like a future.

940
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: No, I mean I'll probably buy one. I mean I'll

941
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: probably buy.

942
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: One, Okay, I mean, to be honest with you, like

943
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 2: at some point, I'll probably just fuck it. I'm gonna

944
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: buy one, you know, even just to play around with it,

945
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: even just so I know. I mean, I'm kind of

946
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: this is kind of a problem for me though, Like

947
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: I've got one of everything.

948
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say this.

949
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: I think if I spend thirty five hundred dollars on

950
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 2: it and I take it home and I use it

951
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: for twenty minutes and I get nauseous. I will definitely

952
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 2: return it, like because like, I have a bunch of

953
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: VR headsets and I don't use any of them, and

954
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 2: I've played them. I've played with them and been like, Wow,

955
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: this is fucking awesome. But after an extended session, I

956
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: mean like fifteen or twenty minutes, I feel physically ill

957
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 2: and I can't keep using it because I'm going to,

958
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 2: like I feel like I'll throw up. That's like a

959
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: pretty huge barrier to using any of this stuff. So

960
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: take all of the whatever's going on aside. If this

961
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: makes you physically ill, it doesn't matter how cool it is.

962
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: It just doesn't if you just take drama mean to

963
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 2: use it. I don't think that's a slam dunk as

964
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: a product.

965
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 4: I wonder if there's like the ratio that like women

966
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 4: would put up with that moore than men, just because

967
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 4: like pregnant people are so often nachous that live through that.

968
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I ah, look, I will. I would argue that.

969
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 2: Women have a higher tolerance for discomfort and suffering if

970
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: this world has showed us shown us anything, so I

971
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. But nobody

972
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 2: wants to feel nauseous. I mean if you had, if

973
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: you had a choice between feeling nauseous and not, you

974
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 2: wouldn't like willingly make yourself nauseous.

975
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 4: Right now, I'm just giving Apple the marketing tools.

976
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: That's good. It's like pregnant women, you'll understand. Yeah, ladies, ladies,

977
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: it's better than being pregnant. Is that the pitch?

978
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it only makes you nauseous for a short

979
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 4: time period that's supposed to extend it.

980
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting.

981
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: I think we got to workshop that a little bit

982
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: before we take it to Tim and Co. But I

983
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: like where you're headed with it. It's interesting. Here's what

984
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 2: I've come to from a conclusion standpoint. Either I'm finally

985
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 2: so old and out of touch that I just don't

986
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: get it man, or Apple is it can only be

987
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 2: one of those things. It can only be one. It

988
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 2: can only be that I don't get it. My you know,

989
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 2: ability to gauge what is and is not cool or

990
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 2: good is somehow gone now. Or this is a bad,

991
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: bad dumb idea and Apple's blowing it. I think it's

992
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: the latter. I feel pretty strongly it is. That doesn't

993
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: mean it can't be successful. Lots of stupid things are

994
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 2: very successful, like Avatar for instance, but it does feel

995
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: a little bit like, yeah, I don't see it. I'm

996
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: going trouble seeing it. For the succession fans out here,

997
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: the presentation felt a lot like a living plus kind

998
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 2: of vibe. I'm not loving it, as they say, well,

999
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 2: I think I can safely say that as our show

1000
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 2: for this week. We will be back next week with

1001
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 2: more what Future, and as always, I wish you and

1002
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: your family the very best.