Speaker 1: Welcome to Righteous Convictions with Jason Flam the podcast where
Speaker 1: I have the privilege of speaking with people who see
Speaker 1: the wrong in the world and are driven to make
Speaker 1: it right. At the age of eighteen, today's guest was
Speaker 1: convicted under California's felony murder statute for a crime in
Speaker 1: which he was not the killer. Nonetheless, he was given
Speaker 1: a sense of twenty five years to life. But he
Speaker 1: managed to free himself after sixteen long years. How did
Speaker 1: he do it by getting a new law passed. And
Speaker 1: so this law was created from in prison, from an
Speaker 1: organization that was created in prison, and was passed essentially
Speaker 1: from inside. And so that part I really want to
Speaker 1: like to tell people who have been incarge rated or
Speaker 1: are incars rated, or people who are working with encourage
Speaker 1: rated people like the energy, the labor of love that
Speaker 1: was behind this. You can't put tangibility to that right
Speaker 1: that that's just something that comes from a deep space
Speaker 1: of of love and and this never giving up spirit.
Speaker 1: Since his release, he's continued to advocate for reform and
Speaker 1: promote restorative justice through the organization Restored Justice. Add non
Speaker 1: con Right Now on Righteous Convictions. Welcome back to Righteous Convictions.
Speaker 1: With Jason Flang. You know, when I started this podcast,
Speaker 1: I had a general idea of the type of guests
Speaker 1: I wanted to interview in the type of work I
Speaker 1: wanted to highlight, and today's guests Odd non Kan is
Speaker 1: like he's a bull's eye is the epitome of what
Speaker 1: I had in mind. I mean, you talk about transformation,
Speaker 1: you talk about channeling tragedy into triumph, and you've got
Speaker 1: to come back around to buy friend dot non con
Speaker 1: so add I'm so ei. You're here, Welcome to Righteous Convictions.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for having me, and I'm really
Speaker 1: thrilled that we're here to talk about this because we're
Speaker 1: going to take our listeners on a journey today. And
Speaker 1: this one goes back to a crime that you were
Speaker 1: involved in. Don't make any bones about that, but when
Speaker 1: you were just eighteen years old right now, this is
Speaker 1: not a pure innocen's case. You were involved in the
Speaker 1: robbery of a guy who was going to sell you
Speaker 1: some marijuana, and it's important that we make that distinction.
Speaker 1: But in the process of this robbery, the young man
Speaker 1: was unfortunately killed by the person that you were with,
Speaker 1: not by you. Now, under belly murder laws, as they
Speaker 1: were in California at that time, and as they still
Speaker 1: are in most states. You're considered just as guilty as
Speaker 1: the person who actually committed the murder, although that was
Speaker 1: not your intention and you weren't the person that did devied.
Speaker 1: So we'll get to that story in the circumstances surrounding
Speaker 1: that incident and the trajectory it started you on. But
Speaker 1: first let's rewind a little further. What was your life
Speaker 1: growing up? You know, in the first like seventeen plus
Speaker 1: years before this thing happened. Um, yeah, growing up, man,
Speaker 1: I felt like, um, well, growing up, I was a
Speaker 1: happy kid. I love to laugh. Comedy was a big
Speaker 1: thing for me. Cartoons obviously, what kid doesn't cartoons and cereal, right, um?
Speaker 1: But also there were a lot of challenges my father.
Speaker 1: My parents divorce when I was eight years old, and
Speaker 1: I think the beginning of my challenges started when, um
Speaker 1: my father was absent basically, so he was in and
Speaker 1: out of my life. And I always wondered while I
Speaker 1: was during my incarceration, what my life would have been
Speaker 1: like if my father was all the way in my life,
Speaker 1: or what my life would have been like if my
Speaker 1: father was all the way out, but for me, because
Speaker 1: he was in and out, UM, it created more of
Speaker 1: a tease for a need for a positive male role model, UM,
Speaker 1: place of belonging. And so that really contributed to UM
Speaker 1: kind of resenting home, not wanting to be home. Seeking
Speaker 1: UM my father seeing where he was, I would literally
Speaker 1: take the bus or take the subway of what it's
Speaker 1: called bart in California or northern California, and I will
Speaker 1: go look for him, UM different places, asked some of
Speaker 1: his friends where he would be at. So that desire
Speaker 1: for me really contributed to a lot of my behaviors
Speaker 1: of of needing and wanting a positive male role model
Speaker 1: and friendships. UM. And then after that, my mom remarried
Speaker 1: and I was twelve years old at this time, and
Speaker 1: that's where a lot of the abuse started from my stepfather. UM.
Speaker 1: He would grab me, throw me on the ground, UM,
Speaker 1: throw me in the car and tell me I'm gonna
Speaker 1: throw you over the bridge. UM. One time he tried
Speaker 1: to put something in my eye which really burns. It
Speaker 1: was some type of acid poison. I'm not sure, but
Speaker 1: a little bit of drop guy into my right eye. UM.
Speaker 1: He paid my best friend ten dollars to try to
Speaker 1: beat me up. He would have he would steal things
Speaker 1: from my mom, or have my step brothers or his
Speaker 1: kids steal things from a mom, put in my jacket
Speaker 1: in coat pocket and say that I was stealing. Um
Speaker 1: effectively took me out of my little league baseball that
Speaker 1: I loved. One thing that baseball provided for me was
Speaker 1: UM that positive male role model. I had other peers
Speaker 1: that were just like me. So I had I felt
Speaker 1: like I had a place of belonging in sports, and
Speaker 1: he knew that. So Um, I was effectively taken out
Speaker 1: of baseball, and I just didn't want to be in
Speaker 1: the home anymore. So I would at twelve years or
Speaker 1: I'll run away or not come home, or stay outside
Speaker 1: as much as possible, playing basketball or just swinging a bat. Um.
Speaker 1: And then after that, in my teens, I started smoking weed, drinking,
Speaker 1: and cutting school. Even though I was a good student. Uh.
Speaker 1: I remember getting straight a's in sixth grade and straight
Speaker 1: a's in ninth grade. Um, So school wasn't UM, It's difficult,
Speaker 1: just I couldn't continue with all emotional baggage. So during
Speaker 1: my teens, UM I was kind of in and out
Speaker 1: of school. I went to about seven different high schools,
Speaker 1: just getting in fights, moving. I haven't seen my dad
Speaker 1: since I was fourteen. Actually that's when he fully disappeared.
Speaker 1: And by the time I was seven teen, my mom
Speaker 1: remarried for the third time and moved out of state.
Speaker 1: UM and about a month later, my uncle kicked me
Speaker 1: out of the house at the age of seventeen. So
Speaker 1: I lived homeless for about a year, slept in cars, parks,
Speaker 1: friends houses, couches, um tennis courts, on the porch of
Speaker 1: my cousin's house because I wasn't allowed in there, just
Speaker 1: anywhere I could. And that lasted for almost about a year.
Speaker 1: But then I tried to get a job, but I
Speaker 1: was a high school drop out at that time. By then,
Speaker 1: UM I had turned eighteen under those conditions, and I
Speaker 1: even enrolled myself into adult school, but I didn't have
Speaker 1: enough money for transportation to go to adult school. UM
Speaker 1: and there's things look really bad and ugly. And so
Speaker 1: one day I was um with a group of friends,
Speaker 1: which where I was introduced to another friend and he
Speaker 1: found out my situation. UM I was eighteen by now
Speaker 1: he was twenty two, and he asked me to come,
Speaker 1: you know, whenever I want to come stay with him.
Speaker 1: So I lived with him for about almost two months
Speaker 1: on and off, and UH, one night when I was
Speaker 1: with him and his friends, that's when they UM said, Hey,
Speaker 1: there's a guy that has a thousand dollars worth of weed.
Speaker 1: He doesn't have guns, knives, weapons. I've never had guns,
Speaker 1: knives and weapons on me either, And they said, in
Speaker 1: a fake drug deal, take this thousand dollars worth of weed,
Speaker 1: run into a car and the driver will drive off.
Speaker 1: And so immediately and impulsively agreed to that. My goal
Speaker 1: was to take my portions of it sell it. And
Speaker 1: I told myself, if I'm going to be homeless in
Speaker 1: the Bay Area, I'd rather be homeless in l A.
Speaker 1: And I want to actually, um try to pursue a
Speaker 1: comedy career. I don't know what I was gonna do,
Speaker 1: but it was definitely comedy because my whole life it
Speaker 1: was comedy that that got me by. But UM, that
Speaker 1: night is when my life changed and that's when I
Speaker 1: was incarcerated from that night. Okay, so you've agreed to
Speaker 1: help these dudes robbed the guy with the marijuana. So
Speaker 1: the big night comes. What was the plan and what
Speaker 1: were you supposed to do? Um? And So that night
Speaker 1: when this young man came down, we my friends who
Speaker 1: I was with call the Bagetta Way driver. They set
Speaker 1: up the fake drug deal because they knew him and
Speaker 1: I didn't, and so that's why I was a person
Speaker 1: to act like I was buying it from him. Once
Speaker 1: he handed it to me, sprint into a car and
Speaker 1: the driver would drive off. So this getaway driver, who
Speaker 1: I hardly knew, I met him one time, like in
Speaker 1: passing that I remembered later. So when the young man
Speaker 1: handed me the weed, the getaway driver was on the
Speaker 1: passenger side of the car and pulled out this young
Speaker 1: man out of the car and appeared to me that
Speaker 1: they were fighting in the middle of the road, and
Speaker 1: so I started yelling and screaming like get back in
Speaker 1: the car, what are you doing? What are you doing? Um?
Speaker 1: And then that's when he ran back into the car.
Speaker 1: We sped off and the next morning I was arrested
Speaker 1: at two am. I didn't know what I was being
Speaker 1: arrested for. They don't They didn't remember Miranda rights. Um.
Speaker 1: I asked the officer who was taking me to the
Speaker 1: police station what my charges were, and he wouldn't answer.
Speaker 1: I get to the police station, they take all my clothes,
Speaker 1: strip search to all the forensics, and finally I was
Speaker 1: taken into the interrogation room, um, and that's when they
Speaker 1: told me that we're charging you with robbery and murder.
Speaker 1: And at first it didn't computing. They said that this
Speaker 1: young man had us his life, and that's when I
Speaker 1: remembered just breaking down and crying. It didn't make any
Speaker 1: sense to me. I want to want to know how
Speaker 1: it happened, and they said that the that they have
Speaker 1: evidence that um, he was stabbed. And so find out.
Speaker 1: I find out that my getaway driver who became my
Speaker 1: co defendant, he was a young black male years old,
Speaker 1: bipolar schizophrenic, had a list of like eight pills that
Speaker 1: he wasn't taking um from his bipolar schizophrenia, and from
Speaker 1: those eight pills, apparently because of his schizophrenia and his paranoia,
Speaker 1: he had a concealed knife that he didn't tell any
Speaker 1: one of us about. And so that night he what
Speaker 1: the court paper said, he snapped where he snaps in
Speaker 1: and out of reality and and blacks out and has
Speaker 1: a violent outburst. And so that's what ended up happening
Speaker 1: and very unfortunately took this young man's life and so
Speaker 1: that's when I learned about my involvement. And then the
Speaker 1: felony murder rule where it said that that I'm equally
Speaker 1: guilty of the murder because I committed a felony. So
Speaker 1: what that would look like in trial? If if the
Speaker 1: the audience, so the listeners here are the jurors, your
Speaker 1: job was only to find me guilty of an intent
Speaker 1: to commit a robbery. And so literally my trial started
Speaker 1: off with the district attorney saying, ladies and gentlemen of
Speaker 1: the jury, UM, I'm gonna tell you right now that
Speaker 1: Mr Khan did not commit a murder. Um, that's not
Speaker 1: why we're here. Your only job is to prove with
Speaker 1: the reasonable doubt that Mr Khan had an intent to
Speaker 1: commit a robbery. So basically the jury's job was done.
Speaker 1: They found me guilty. I was guilty, um of an
Speaker 1: intent to commit a robbery. I still am. And so
Speaker 1: once they found me guilty, their job was done. They
Speaker 1: went home to their families and the next phase was
Speaker 1: the judge's phase. Several months later, and the judge had
Speaker 1: to sentence me to a mandatory twenty life sentence under
Speaker 1: the Feildy murder rule. After my convince the jury found
Speaker 1: me guilty, and before the judge here comes these a
Speaker 1: couple of forensic psychologists. They do all sorts of test
Speaker 1: over a period of one week, and when the report
Speaker 1: came back, it said in the report that had it
Speaker 1: not then for this mandatory sentence, we would recommend probation
Speaker 1: for Mr Khan. And so after all of that, just
Speaker 1: being found guilty of a robbery murder, they still said
Speaker 1: that we would recommend probation, but obviously they couldn't because
Speaker 1: of the mandatory sentence. But you had never intended on
Speaker 1: anyone getting killed. You were just a kid who was
Speaker 1: gonna go help rip this guy off for some pot
Speaker 1: doing something you know, unquestionably stupid, like a lot of
Speaker 1: kids do at that age. What were you thinking when
Speaker 1: you heard that prison sentence come down? Were you like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: this is like not only unfair but unreal. You know,
Speaker 1: I do I do still, I want to add like,
Speaker 1: I do still take responsibility for like what I did.
Speaker 1: And there's a big part of me. I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, being being locked up and and you sit there.
Speaker 1: A lot of people will see the cessationalized part of prison, right,
Speaker 1: and that's the most common thing about you know the fights,
Speaker 1: the riots, But the truth is the fights and the
Speaker 1: riots the last matter of seconds. And so with society
Speaker 1: doesn't see or think about is what we do the
Speaker 1: rest of the What is it twenty three hours and
Speaker 1: fifty nine minutes right, What those conversations are, what those
Speaker 1: self reflections are. Um. We talk about remorse and and
Speaker 1: we have victim awareness. We we think about mortality. Um,
Speaker 1: if we're not forgiven in this life, and if we're
Speaker 1: going to die in this life, then what is the
Speaker 1: next life? Like? How can I make up? How can
Speaker 1: I do a living amends here? And so even though
Speaker 1: yes I did not intend nor did I kill a
Speaker 1: victim in in my case, I still hold myself responsible. UM,
Speaker 1: I do understand like there is someone that UM, a
Speaker 1: mother who has lost the child, a father who has
Speaker 1: lost the child, the sister and brother who have lost
Speaker 1: a sibling, and that never leaves me, you know. And
Speaker 1: so even though I'm not, I guess fully I live
Speaker 1: in this awkward um space of what people say. And
Speaker 1: I don't like to use the word innocent, but I
Speaker 1: guess for the sake of this conversation innocent and then guilty.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm in the middle of that,
Speaker 1: Like my whole incarceration, even up until this day, I
Speaker 1: did do something wrong. I didn't do it to the
Speaker 1: extent that they're saying in or did I intend to.
Speaker 1: But I hold myself responsible internally with the remorse and
Speaker 1: in the active making of amends righteous convictions with Jason
Speaker 1: flam is super excited and honored to have the support
Speaker 1: of a great organization like Galaxy Gives. Galaxy Gives leads
Speaker 1: the filanthropic efforts of the Novograds family. They invest in organizations, campaigns,
Speaker 1: and leaders who are directly impacted by and working to
Speaker 1: dismantle the current punitive justice system. Galaxy Gives also builds
Speaker 1: power for the community's most harmed by mass incarceration and
Speaker 1: forges transformative solutions for responding to that harm. They envision
Speaker 1: a society where the structural barriers created by racism, poverty,
Speaker 1: and inequali here and no more, where instead all people
Speaker 1: have the dignity, freedom and rights needed to thrive. So
Speaker 1: you go from that eighteen year old with the twenty
Speaker 1: five to life sentence to somebody who was primarily responsible
Speaker 1: for legislation that ended up not only leading to your freedom,
Speaker 1: but to the freedom of countless other deserving people who
Speaker 1: were sentenced under the felty murder rule in California. I'm
Speaker 1: talking about Senate Bill fourteen thirty seven, which you initiated
Speaker 1: and fought for and which was passed into law in
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen. And not only that, you did this
Speaker 1: from the inside, from behind the big walls, those intimidating
Speaker 1: walls of San Quentin Prison. I mean, that's incredible, It's
Speaker 1: absolutely heroic. So I mean, how did this happen? Take
Speaker 1: us through that journey? Yeah, definitely. Um, you know my
Speaker 1: first four years while I was I was in County
Speaker 1: jail fighting this case. Um so it was eighteen years
Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty two years old, and um, I just
Speaker 1: remember like becoming I guess, this little young Dale House lawyer.
Speaker 1: I studied the crap out of the felony murder rule
Speaker 1: and and robbery and all sorts of murder. Just that's
Speaker 1: all I was doing, exhausting myself with educating myself, learning
Speaker 1: learning about the law as much as I can, and
Speaker 1: to a point where when I was found guilty, I
Speaker 1: was just I knew that the only way for me
Speaker 1: to go home was if the felony murder rule changed.
Speaker 1: So when I was sentenced and take into state prison,
Speaker 1: though I did appeal in my case, but I just
Speaker 1: I did it out of formality, I guess, Um. I
Speaker 1: knew that the by law, the court had not made
Speaker 1: an error, and that's what would help me in my appeal. Like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we we have findings that the court made an error,
Speaker 1: but the court didn't. They did everything right under that law.
Speaker 1: So I knew that eventually if I were to go home,
Speaker 1: would be either in twenty five years and then at
Speaker 1: the Pearl Board if they find me suitable in twenty
Speaker 1: five years. But I knew that the only way for
Speaker 1: me to go home any sooner would be if this
Speaker 1: law changed. And you've founded a nonprofit organization from insight,
Speaker 1: I believe the original goal of that was just to
Speaker 1: change this law and try to get yourself released, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I found it Restore Justice officially in when we
Speaker 1: got our nonprofit five one three status, but uh, we're
Speaker 1: actually doing a lot of this work in and that's
Speaker 1: when the law started to kind of take traction. Um.
Speaker 1: We got a legislator behind it, um to say the
Speaker 1: injustices of it. I used my story, other stories across
Speaker 1: the nation, across the state women's stories who were the
Speaker 1: non killer in the in in the um in those crimes,
Speaker 1: as well as our own data and statistics. The legislature
Speaker 1: wanted some datas, wanted some statistics around these issues who
Speaker 1: are the non killers and felt the murder cases. But
Speaker 1: under California prison system, they didn't have that. They classified
Speaker 1: all of us as the actual killer under murder robbery.
Speaker 1: They didn't make a distinction of who was the killer
Speaker 1: who was a non killer, And so when we asked
Speaker 1: to do a survey, um if they could help us
Speaker 1: with the survey, this is the Department of Corrections, they
Speaker 1: said no or put us through a bunch of loopholes.
Speaker 1: So what we did was a very um, I guess
Speaker 1: it clever um work around. I made a questionnaire inside
Speaker 1: as simple as possible under trying to um make it
Speaker 1: as simple for the people, for myself and people inside
Speaker 1: to see if they fit under that law. And we
Speaker 1: had a bunch of chaplains, rabbis uh I moms throughout
Speaker 1: the prison system kind of like sneak it in and
Speaker 1: then kind of handed to the people inside. Then they
Speaker 1: would make copies through the through their own methods and
Speaker 1: means and ways inside and next thing, you know, um,
Speaker 1: in our mailbox outside, we started getting a bunch of letters,
Speaker 1: a bunch of surveys back, and then we had a
Speaker 1: whole team to make sure that that was accurate, if
Speaker 1: in there, if their cases did actually fit that. And
Speaker 1: you know, that's when we found out that seventy women
Speaker 1: under under this law where the non killer UM doing
Speaker 1: time in California. We found out over two thousand people
Speaker 1: were affected by this law that were the non killer
Speaker 1: in this felony murder law. And that's statistic, by the way,
Speaker 1: is to call it what it is, it's just out
Speaker 1: it is. It is crazy, it is And that was
Speaker 1: even like, you know, for me to read that while
Speaker 1: I was incarcerated, to read that statistic was mind blowing
Speaker 1: for me. I didn't think about it. I'm a lot
Speaker 1: you know, obviously a lot of times women issues are
Speaker 1: left behind, um and when we talk about incarceration, and
Speaker 1: so that was a huge eye opener for me as
Speaker 1: an incarcerated person serving life under felt the murder as
Speaker 1: a male serving life under felony murder. And you know,
Speaker 1: another thing was that we saw the different cases where
Speaker 1: guys commit a burglary and there's a high speech chase
Speaker 1: and an officer loses his or her life, loses their
Speaker 1: life from an accident, not from a murder, and then
Speaker 1: they both would get life. Um. There was a case
Speaker 1: where two young kids, teenagers were about to burglarize a house,
Speaker 1: which is wrong. The person inside starts shooting at them
Speaker 1: and one of them passes away, and so the other
Speaker 1: one gets the life sentence and conviction for his friend's death.
Speaker 1: You know. So those those types of cases were sold
Speaker 1: also so common and normal, um, And a lot of
Speaker 1: youth do things in groups, whether it's to find camaraderie,
Speaker 1: whether it's gangs, whether it's whatever, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: A lot of youth do things in groups. So this law,
Speaker 1: what it did was kind of take a bunch of
Speaker 1: people at one time and throw them all in prison
Speaker 1: and for life. So like the success of this law
Speaker 1: was kind of two fold, the front end and the
Speaker 1: back end. The back end is the bill is retroactive
Speaker 1: and so people are going to are getting out of prison.
Speaker 1: So through this law, we're decarcerating people, and not only
Speaker 1: just decarcerating, but specifically people sentence to life. And then
Speaker 1: on the front end is no one else will be
Speaker 1: in Kanada, state of California will be charged with this
Speaker 1: law and be sentenced to life moving forward. So and
Speaker 1: that is truly miraculous. And this law is going to
Speaker 1: help a lot of people, and in fact it already has.
Speaker 1: But let's back up for just a second. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about the Moment of truth. Spe was passed in August
Speaker 1: and in January two only nineteen. It goes into a
Speaker 1: fact what happened next? So um it was. I remember
Speaker 1: it was like the second third week of January. It's
Speaker 1: like January sevent I remember going to bed like eleven
Speaker 1: o'clock at night, actually falling asleep, I mean around eleven
Speaker 1: o'clock at night. And then around twelve thirty, twelve forty,
Speaker 1: a correctional officer wakes me up and slides two clear
Speaker 1: trash bags under my cell and he says, hey, pack
Speaker 1: your stuff. County Jails coming and pick you up. And
Speaker 1: I remember like waking up my sleep and kind of
Speaker 1: frustrated anger. I'm like, hey, this is a clerical error,
Speaker 1: this is a mistake. I don't know why they're coming
Speaker 1: to pick me up. Um, and so I just in
Speaker 1: a frustrating way, I pack all my stuff in these
Speaker 1: clear trash bags. Uh. Longer story short, they transport me
Speaker 1: to county jail. They finally put me in in a
Speaker 1: jumpsuit and I didn't sleep for almost a day, ate
Speaker 1: maybe a carton of milk, drank a carton of milk,
Speaker 1: and ate one piece of blowny sandwich and the intake.
Speaker 1: And then they finally at midnight put me in a
Speaker 1: cell and woke me up again for am So I
Speaker 1: had about four hours of sleep after twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: So they marched me into the courtroom. And before getting
Speaker 1: the courtroom, the bailiff says, hey, there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: people here. I'm gonna put you in first and the
Speaker 1: people will come in. You're not allowed to look back.
Speaker 1: Do not look back when people walk in. You may
Speaker 1: speak to your attorney that's next to you, but don't
Speaker 1: look back. So I get in there, he unhandcuffs me. Um.
Speaker 1: Then I hear people walking in, a bunch of friends,
Speaker 1: my family. I hear their voices. Apparently, I still don't
Speaker 1: know what until this day would it looked like. But
Speaker 1: apparently the courtroom was standing room only with just my supporters.
Speaker 1: But before that, I turned to my attorney I asked
Speaker 1: her if the victims family was here, and the reason
Speaker 1: I asked that because I didn't want to re victimize
Speaker 1: or reharm them in any way if they either saw
Speaker 1: me after what sixteen years um, or if I if
Speaker 1: they heard me, if I had to like answer to
Speaker 1: the judge for some reason. So my attorney said that, no,
Speaker 1: the victims family is not here. And my following question
Speaker 1: to her, I said, hey, as soon as this hearing
Speaker 1: is over. I remember MLK weekend. It was a Friday,
Speaker 1: and I told as soon as it's hearing or whatever
Speaker 1: this dry run is, whenever this is over, can you
Speaker 1: please send me back to San Quentin. The super Bowl
Speaker 1: is next week, Like I want to go back and
Speaker 1: watch the super Bowl. I don't want to be here.
Speaker 1: She said, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll take care of it.
Speaker 1: So that's where my mind was at that time. So
Speaker 1: literally seconds later, and watch the judge. Now this is
Speaker 1: the same judge that sentenced me to twenty five life,
Speaker 1: the same judge that I saw for practically four years
Speaker 1: filing my emotions and and all that stuff. So in
Speaker 1: walks the judge, we rise, we sit down. She says, okay,
Speaker 1: Mr Khan. I looked at your case and your files. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I looked at the new legislation. So what I'm
Speaker 1: going to do is I'm going to resentence you for
Speaker 1: the robbery to three years. And by then, Um, I
Speaker 1: had done sixteen years. And she says, since you've done
Speaker 1: more than five times that amount of the three years,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be releasing you today. And I just
Speaker 1: sat there. All of her was gas and cries in
Speaker 1: the background, and I froze. Um. I couldn't believe what
Speaker 1: she said, Like just five seconds. God, I wanted to
Speaker 1: go back to San Quentin to watch the super Bowl,
Speaker 1: and you're telling me you're releasing me today. Yeah, man?
Speaker 1: And so uh and then she says, I'm not putting
Speaker 1: you on parole or probation. That's excessive, and that she
Speaker 1: looked at my family and my supporters, and she says,
Speaker 1: he probably has an hour or so to process out,
Speaker 1: so you may want to get him some clothes and
Speaker 1: get him out of those clothes when he comes out.
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, man, a few hours later, come out
Speaker 1: and I just don't know and never rest his history.
Speaker 1: I guess that is an amazing and inspiring story. I
Speaker 1: mean the fact that you saw this need to get
Speaker 1: the law change, somehow figured it out, picked up the
Speaker 1: ball and ran with it and actually got it over
Speaker 1: the goal line. It never ceases to amaze me. The
Speaker 1: idea that this is something that not only could be done,
Speaker 1: but that you managed to do it, and the fact
Speaker 1: that you were the first person to get out under
Speaker 1: that revised law is awesome and it's like poetic justice
Speaker 1: in a certain way. I appreciate it. Man. There were
Speaker 1: a lot of obviously like, um, you know, I guess,
Speaker 1: I guess publicly, I get public facing credit for it,
Speaker 1: but there's so many people that aren't seen or heard
Speaker 1: or that are part of the success of this a
Speaker 1: huge part, and so UM very grateful and thankful for
Speaker 1: all of them. But one amazing thing that that I
Speaker 1: do feel proud of, we all feel proud of, is
Speaker 1: that this law was started from inside the prison walls.
Speaker 1: Limited access to information, limited access to people, but there
Speaker 1: was ambition, there was drive, there was a hope, there
Speaker 1: was never giving up spirit, the fight for your life,
Speaker 1: um spirit. And so this law was created from in prison,
Speaker 1: from an organization that was created in prison, and was
Speaker 1: passed essentially from inside, and then I end up being
Speaker 1: the first person re sentenced under the bill that we
Speaker 1: created from in prison, from our organization in prison. And
Speaker 1: so that part I really want to like tell people
Speaker 1: who have been in cars rated, or who are in
Speaker 1: cars rated, or people who are working with in cars
Speaker 1: rated people like the energy, the the labor of love
Speaker 1: UM that was behind this is the you can't put
Speaker 1: tangibility to that, right that that's just something that UH
Speaker 1: comes from a deep space of of love and and
Speaker 1: this never giving up spirit and the organization again what's
Speaker 1: called restored justice. So just to take a sidebar here,
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about restorative justice on this show,
Speaker 1: and it seems like there's so much misunderstanding about what
Speaker 1: that actually means, so I don't I'd love to get
Speaker 1: your take on its. Restorative justice is UM mainly about
Speaker 1: repairing harm, and so there's there's two approaches to this
Speaker 1: that aren't necessarily simultanous. Most people think we store if
Speaker 1: justice is having the person that's responsible for harm hurry
Speaker 1: up and meet the person that has been harmed, and
Speaker 1: that's not not the case. And so in our work,
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that both sides are ready
Speaker 1: to even have that meeting. But restorative justice more like
Speaker 1: repairing the damage that's been caused one on the person,
Speaker 1: why why they committed the harm? Like, what is you know,
Speaker 1: hurt people, hurt people. Everyone's heard that so much. But
Speaker 1: I went from an eight year old little league baseball
Speaker 1: player to an eighteen year old with a life sentence
Speaker 1: and that trauma, that harm that I received, and the
Speaker 1: violence that I received UM in those ten years, UM
Speaker 1: contributed to mine my violence. So what is the repairing
Speaker 1: that needs to be done in my heart and my soul?
Speaker 1: And is it housing? I was homeless, I was by
Speaker 1: the time I was arrested. I was a parentless, homeless,
Speaker 1: high school dropout, And any one of those things would
Speaker 1: have probably could have stopped me from going going to
Speaker 1: prison or committing my harm. And then on the other end,
Speaker 1: is what is the repair that the survivors and the
Speaker 1: victims need, you know, especially something so tragic as losing
Speaker 1: a loved one. What is that we haven't identified that
Speaker 1: that hasn't been so publicized. And one thing that we
Speaker 1: don't understand is that a lot of people don't even
Speaker 1: think about this. District attorneys do not represent the victims.
Speaker 1: District attorneys, by law, represent the state. So there's been
Speaker 1: so many cases in my organization that I learned from
Speaker 1: victims that if they wanted restorative justice and they approached
Speaker 1: the district attorneys with that, the district attorneys wouldn't give
Speaker 1: that to them because it didn't contribute to their narrative
Speaker 1: of conviction. And so what the first people that survivors
Speaker 1: and victims meet is the district attorney, and the district
Speaker 1: attorney tells them, this is what your healing looks like.
Speaker 1: I'm here for you, going to fight for you. Your
Speaker 1: healing looks like a life sentence, death penalty, and and
Speaker 1: the longest sentence inside, the more we punish this person,
Speaker 1: the better you'll feel. And that's such a warped and
Speaker 1: distorted way of like thinking about what what justice looks like,
Speaker 1: you know. And so when I was locked up, I
Speaker 1: was never told to make an amend. I was never
Speaker 1: told to be accountable. I was never told to go
Speaker 1: fix myself. None of that. I did that all on
Speaker 1: my own. So our system doesn't hold you accountable, It
Speaker 1: just holds you. So no one that actually ever gets
Speaker 1: any type of healing on either end. And that's what
Speaker 1: the um it turns into institutionalized violence. Right. So the
Speaker 1: systemic violence from that, uh, and the cycle just continues.
Speaker 1: And so restorative justice is is such a deeper concept
Speaker 1: that it goes way beyond the initial impulse of just
Speaker 1: the two people hurry up and meeting together, and that's
Speaker 1: not the case. So so first and foremost, Restore Justice
Speaker 1: was started to try and get the Valley Murder rule
Speaker 1: or return. But you didn't just leave it there, right,
Speaker 1: You went on and it's gone on to do other
Speaker 1: great things and you've had some really amazing successes, I understand. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the main thing about Restore Justice, what we say
Speaker 1: it was the law, right, but actually I couldn't say
Speaker 1: that publicly. Inside you're not allowed to be an activist inside,
Speaker 1: So even though the law was being done, it was
Speaker 1: kind of being done secretly. But the main thing that
Speaker 1: Restore Justice did, um was work around life sentences. So
Speaker 1: under our staff we had people who were who have
Speaker 1: lost loved ones to murder, and then people on our
Speaker 1: staff who had committed murder and who were once sentence
Speaker 1: to life who are out now and literally hand in
Speaker 1: hand with the victims, survivors and people who have committed
Speaker 1: such harm, we will go to the state capitals and
Speaker 1: advocate for a better restorative system. So that was what
Speaker 1: was going on for a long time. One thing that
Speaker 1: another success that we had once I came home was
Speaker 1: we got a budget play where we were giving five
Speaker 1: million dollars to start not US, but to UM an
Speaker 1: organization UM to five million dollars to have an alternative
Speaker 1: to UH to incarceration, have restorative justice pilot program in
Speaker 1: San Joaquin County. So that was a really really big success.
Speaker 1: We're also big part of the pandemic relief UM, you know,
Speaker 1: incarcerated the people. UM. We raised over a hundred thousand
Speaker 1: dollars and within a year or two UH and we
Speaker 1: were giving fifty dollars at a time to incarcerated people
Speaker 1: on their prison accounts so they could buy a hygiene
Speaker 1: and food and UM you know, and then and also
Speaker 1: advocating for releases. The governor not releasing around eight thousand
Speaker 1: people during this time. So there was a lot that
Speaker 1: was being done. UM kind of like all hands on,
Speaker 1: especially during the pandemic and continuing our restorative justice work
Speaker 1: and reframing violence. But our our organization sun set it
Speaker 1: towards the end of last year UM with the with
Speaker 1: funding issues and it was hard to raise money during
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Yeah, so unfortunately sunset, but it was time.
Speaker 1: It was time to sunset, and I guess move on. Well,
Speaker 1: only good thing that's come out of that, I guess
Speaker 1: is that you'll have more time for some of your
Speaker 1: other exciting projects. So tell us about First Watch, the
Speaker 1: program you started to introduce filmmaking as a restorative tool
Speaker 1: for in cars rated people. How did that come about? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's a big part of the
Speaker 1: story I've I've hardly talked about because just wasn't part
Speaker 1: of the narrative, I guess right. But before the family
Speaker 1: Murder rule law, before the Restored Justice Organization, the first
Speaker 1: first thing that I did was actually start a film
Speaker 1: project called First Watch, and from that invited a bunch
Speaker 1: of philanthropists and was pitching idea of a film project
Speaker 1: where incarcerated people UM took control of their own narrative.
Speaker 1: And so I ended up getting a big chunk of
Speaker 1: funding and somehow convinced administration allow us to get UM
Speaker 1: almost like two worth of equipment, computers, editing software, Mike's boom,
Speaker 1: Mikes lab, Mike's lighting equipment, you name it. I still
Speaker 1: have videos and pictures of a huge, huge palette being
Speaker 1: delivered into what we call the media center in sam Quentin. Um.
Speaker 1: So that's what actually started first, and that's and we
Speaker 1: started learning film. I started teaching film to each other.
Speaker 1: We don't have internet access inside obviously, UM, so we
Speaker 1: would learn by either reading books that we would order
Speaker 1: or literally watching TV or commercials and counting how long
Speaker 1: each clip last, what angle they used, Um, how do
Speaker 1: how do they sell a product a sprite, a bottle
Speaker 1: of a sprite or cannon sprite in thirty seconds? Like
Speaker 1: how do you do that? Right? And so we learned lighting,
Speaker 1: we learned editing, we learned storyboarding, we learned cinematography. So
Speaker 1: I did film for four years, um straight. When when
Speaker 1: I was in there, that was my job, that was
Speaker 1: my my life, my vision. I want to do comedy.
Speaker 1: So we made a bunch of funny videos. One was
Speaker 1: called Selfies ce l l Um and it was like
Speaker 1: a play on MTV cribs. So the guy would be like,
Speaker 1: come on then, and let me show you my living room,
Speaker 1: my bed, my kitchen, you know, in my bathroom and
Speaker 1: this and that. So it was just UM trying to
Speaker 1: use humor. So those types of things um. The idea
Speaker 1: around again was to let us be the storytellers, let
Speaker 1: us tell our own story. In Hollywood and CITs nationalized
Speaker 1: media has has taken control of our identity. And at
Speaker 1: the same time, we're artists, like we're not formally incarcerated filmmakers,
Speaker 1: were filmmakers who are formally incarcerated, or we're filmmakers who
Speaker 1: are currently incarcerated. And so that when I came home
Speaker 1: it was a blessing. I had two options. Pursue film
Speaker 1: UM and there were offers and opportunities there, or the
Speaker 1: come the executive director officially of my organization, and I
Speaker 1: wanted to. It was kind of no doubt in my brain,
Speaker 1: like I wanted to in my heart to be the
Speaker 1: executive director of nonprofit of of of my organization and
Speaker 1: continue to give back and help people I left behind
Speaker 1: get out. But I knew eventually when the time would
Speaker 1: come in my heart and my soul that I wanted UM.
Speaker 1: I want to do something creative. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: an artist at heart. I want to create. I fell
Speaker 1: in love with film. It's crazy how when during my
Speaker 1: commission of my crime, the reason I did that was
Speaker 1: to go become homeless in l A and figure something
Speaker 1: out with comedy or even film. Then and then when
Speaker 1: I get to San Quentin about twelve thirteen years later,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna place the media center and and the film project.
Speaker 1: Allowed to do a film project is just from the
Speaker 1: universe was speaking to me. So about six months ago
Speaker 1: I finally started to do film. And my main job
Speaker 1: is I work under a foundation. And in this foundation
Speaker 1: that I giveaway grants to filmmakers who are formally incarcerated
Speaker 1: and help them along the way in their process. Put
Speaker 1: a team around them, a support, moral support team, a
Speaker 1: team of whether they're editors or directors or producers, writers,
Speaker 1: whatever they want to be. Just put some help and
Speaker 1: support around that around them and build build like a
Speaker 1: cohort of peer support as well of filmmakers who are
Speaker 1: formally incarcerated and across the nation. So yeah, that's my
Speaker 1: main job and it's been amazing. And the name of
Speaker 1: that foundation, I understand is First Watch Filmmakers. So add on,
Speaker 1: how can our listeners get in touch if they want
Speaker 1: to help out? So if you would like to contribute
Speaker 1: and help out and donate for other impacted and formally
Speaker 1: in cars rated filmmakers, uh to make their films, their docs,
Speaker 1: their short films. You can reach out to me on
Speaker 1: my social media account A con it's a K H
Speaker 1: A N four seven on Twitter or Instagram. Great, we'll
Speaker 1: put all that information in our biou so it folks
Speaker 1: out there want to donate, or maybe or someone who
Speaker 1: could benefit from one of the grants, or maybe you
Speaker 1: just know someone who is or who will. We've got
Speaker 1: a couple more things to talk about, but first I
Speaker 1: want to remind listeners to tune in next week. My
Speaker 1: guests will be the truly remarkable Ramarlon Ralston, a prison abolitionist,
Speaker 1: scholar and the executive director of College and Community Fellowship
Speaker 1: in New York. She's an incredibly inspiring human and I
Speaker 1: know you won't want to miss it. And now addn Kan.
Speaker 1: First of all, thank you so much for being here
Speaker 1: today to tell us your amazing story. And now we
Speaker 1: have two things left to do. The first one is
Speaker 1: a question. It's my favorite question. It's the magic one question.
Speaker 1: So if I had a magic wand and could grant
Speaker 1: you any one wish, what would it be? Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: what a what a oh my gosh? What does magic wand?
Speaker 1: I would put a magic wand and everyone's hand if
Speaker 1: I love that man, big ones for everyone, And what's
Speaker 1: the outcome you would wish for? What would be the
Speaker 1: culmination of these billions and billions of wishes? Um peace piece,
Speaker 1: piece of heart, peace in the heart, tranquility, ease, um, euphoria.
Speaker 1: Everything else will be taken care of after that. And
Speaker 1: finally the final segment, which is appropriately called words of Wisdom.
Speaker 1: And this is the part of the show where I
Speaker 1: turn off my my turn up my headphones, kick back
Speaker 1: in my chair, and just listen to any last words
Speaker 1: you want to share with our listeners. So take it
Speaker 1: away on noncon m hmm. Words of wisdom. That's a
Speaker 1: tough one. I think that the only thing I can
Speaker 1: say is that how grateful I am of of everyone
Speaker 1: that is even listening, people who care. Nothing can be
Speaker 1: done alone in terms of surviving inside. We were isolated.
Speaker 1: We are alone, but there's always a piece of hope,
Speaker 1: somebody somewhere something. Even if we're not connected with people,
Speaker 1: we know that people are out here doing something. People
Speaker 1: are out here going to the legislative offices, or doing podcasts,
Speaker 1: or making films or putting putting kids on buses to
Speaker 1: come see their children. There's there's so many efforts that
Speaker 1: are being done. I just want everyone know that that
Speaker 1: stuff gets two people inside and it provides that hope
Speaker 1: and that energy on days where there isn't motivation, on
Speaker 1: days where you're just sitting there or lying there on
Speaker 1: your mattress and you don't want to pick up a
Speaker 1: book and you don't want to turn your TV on,
Speaker 1: you don't want to do anything but just just lie there.
Speaker 1: These efforts to everyone that is making out here helps
Speaker 1: us to get up, helps us to go ahead and
Speaker 1: do that workout, helps us to go ahead and go
Speaker 1: pick up that book or read or do an assignment
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. So I just want to thank
Speaker 1: everybody out here for doing exactly what they have been
Speaker 1: doing and contributing, getting involved and pushing against the system
Speaker 1: that's built to destroy and hopefully creating a better one
Speaker 1: that's more helpful, healthier and all inclusive. So I'll just
Speaker 1: leave off by saying thank you to everyone who's listening,
Speaker 1: and thank you to everyone who cares. Thank you for
Speaker 1: listening to Righteous Convictions with Jason Flam. I'd like to
Speaker 1: thank our production team, Connor Hall, Annie Chelsea, Jeff Clever
Speaker 1: and Lila Robinson and Kevin Wardis. The music in this
Speaker 1: production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for Good.
Speaker 1: You can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram
Speaker 1: at it's Jason Flom. Righteous Convictions with Jason Plomb is
Speaker 1: a production of Lava for Good podcast and association with
Speaker 1: Signal Company Number one h