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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Shoot us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me. Trust me. I'm like a swat person. I've

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Speaker 3: never lied to.

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Speaker 1: You, I've never live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about colds extreme belief.

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Speaker 2: I Am Manipulation from two non members who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 4: I'm Lo Lablanc and I Am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Today is part two of our interview with Warren Cole,

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Speaker 2: former member and religious leader within the two by twos,

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Speaker 2: Megan's secretive childhood group that technically does not have a name. Today,

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Speaker 2: we're going to hear about how and why he left

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Speaker 2: behind his dream of going to medical school to become

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Speaker 2: what's known as a worker, a kind of preacher that

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Speaker 2: stays in people's homes.

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Speaker 4: He'll tell us about struggling with the pressure to speak

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Speaker 4: with some kind of authority, how he was scolded for

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Speaker 4: trying to genuinely connect with the members over their shared pain,

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Speaker 4: and how shocked he was to discover that when a

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Speaker 4: member was committing domestic violence he was advised to stay

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Speaker 4: out of it because we're all sinners, I guess, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Plus how his mental health deteriorated, how he finally got out,

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Speaker 2: and what he'd say to people still in the religion.

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Speaker 2: Before we go into those things with Warren, Megan, kindly

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Speaker 2: tell me your coldiest thing of this week.

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Speaker 4: Okay, this one's kind of not that negative.

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Speaker 1: Like usually Michael things of the week are like fifteen

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Speaker 1: bodies found this one not to make light but this

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Speaker 1: one is a little bit sunnier but also kind of

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Speaker 1: weird inside the Taylor Swift themed addictionary recovery group, where

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Speaker 1: former alcoholics and drug users sing her songs and gossip

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Speaker 1: about Travis to battle their os.

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Speaker 2: How though, but why and how does it even mean?

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Speaker 1: It's like a new They call it Swift Steps instead

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Speaker 1: of the twelve Steps. So just a little cultural phenomena

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Speaker 1: of this cult, Like Grip, Taylor Swift has on people that, look,

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Speaker 1: this could be the best thing that's ever happened to

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Speaker 1: people for sure, But in three years, would I be

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Speaker 1: shocked if somebody was.

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Speaker 4: Like I was working the Swift Steps and it went badly.

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Speaker 2: No, the Swift Steps. I'm sorry, but centering your sobriety

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Speaker 2: around an individual human being seems a little odd.

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Speaker 1: But you know, well, especially if it's like really hung

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Speaker 1: upon them, needing Travis to be in her life.

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Speaker 4: Whatever helps people get sober, we're here for.

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Speaker 2: That's yes, community and listen. If your community is like

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Speaker 2: very much structured around Taylor Swift and you find other

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Speaker 2: people who want to be sober, who have also structured

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Speaker 2: much of their lives around Taylor Swift, you got y'all

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Speaker 2: go for it.

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Speaker 1: That's a cult that we that we want to see thrive.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, just interesting.

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Speaker 4: Interesting. What about you? What's your cultiest thing of the week.

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Speaker 2: I went to a Joshua Tree yesterday and I did

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Speaker 2: mushrooms because that's what you do in Joshua Tree. I

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Speaker 2: don't know why else anyone would go to Joshua Tree.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like you might need the Swift Steps.

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Speaker 2: You're right, my addiction of mushrooms one to two times

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Speaker 2: a year is really ruining my life. I need to

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Speaker 2: talk about Travis Kelsey to solve it. Have you seen

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Speaker 2: his tweets? Very funny tweets anyway, No, Okay, So I

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Speaker 2: did rooms at the most beautiful Airbnb. It was so nice.

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Speaker 2: There was a moment when, well, first of all, I've

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Speaker 2: just been eating an emotional reset, like I doshrooms as

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Speaker 2: a like, uh, what am I doing with my life?

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Speaker 2: I must like search my soul and commune with nature

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Speaker 2: or whatever, or just like I'm feeling really bad, I

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Speaker 2: need to process that. So I sat on the ground

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Speaker 2: and I looked at the setting sun in the desert,

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Speaker 2: and I saw imagery that I hadn't seen before in shrooms.

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Speaker 2: I think it was a slightly higher dose than I've

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Speaker 2: taken before. And I was like, oh, this is why

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Speaker 2: so many people say that they've like seen God or

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Speaker 2: like had a you know, experienced a vision or something

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Speaker 2: like that. Because the visuals of what I was seeing,

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Speaker 2: I forgot what they're called. Is it fractals? What are

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Speaker 2: they call whatever? I basically saw like moving images that

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Speaker 2: looked like many arms, like they looked like the god

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Speaker 2: Shiva or something, and it looked like all different like

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Speaker 2: kinds of gods throughout history or whatever. And in my

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Speaker 2: head I was like, oh, this is like what all

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Speaker 2: of humans throughout history, Not that everyone was doing shrooms,

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Speaker 2: but like, this is what people are calling God. And

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Speaker 2: to me, the way that I could perceive that is like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is like a chemical working on my brain and

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Speaker 2: it's like activating my like parts of my inner self

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Speaker 2: that I'm like suppressing and not listening to. But it

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Speaker 2: feels like this kind of like divine wisdom or something.

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Speaker 2: So for me, as an atheist and a non believer,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's so interesting, these chemicals that feel

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Speaker 2: God like. But I it's so easy to see how

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Speaker 2: they could be interpreted by someone as actual God and

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Speaker 2: as literal and not metaphorical or chemical, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean. Yeah, if I were a different kind of person,

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Speaker 2: I would come away and be like, bro, I chatted

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Speaker 2: with God, me and the Divine. We were fucking hashing

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Speaker 2: it out, you know what I mean. But instead I'm like.

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Speaker 4: Nice experience, moving on?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah exactly, Well, but I'm not even moving on.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, yeah, I need to think about some

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Speaker 2: of those things, but like it's all coming from me.

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Speaker 2: But still highly recommend mushrooms in a responsible way every

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Speaker 2: once in a while positive, set and setting people you trust, etcetera, etcetera, unless.

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Speaker 4: You're sober, in which case I don't recommend them.

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Speaker 2: Right, If you don't want to do drugs, don't do drugs.

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Speaker 4: Don't do drugs.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, that was interesting. I guess that's really all of

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Speaker 2: my story.

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Speaker 4: I love it.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations, Thank you. Nature spoke to me.

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Speaker 4: Yay, yay me getting some downloads?

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Speaker 2: All right? Well, speaking of different forms of spirituality and.

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Speaker 4: God, shall we talk to Warren?

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Speaker 2: Let's do it. What's interesting hearing your story is that

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Speaker 2: in both of these stories you've told us, you have

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Speaker 2: you professing when you're afraid to, and then you you

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Speaker 2: having this big fear around separation from your family. But

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Speaker 2: in both cases it seems like you sort of reil

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Speaker 2: against the parts of yourself that are afraid and almost

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Speaker 2: like defy the things you're afraid of. Yes, you're moving,

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Speaker 2: you're going toward the church, and who knows if that

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Speaker 2: was the right thing for you to do, but also

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Speaker 2: you're going pushing back against your own anxieties and your

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Speaker 2: own fear in a way that those things are actually

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Speaker 2: very brave choices to do within the context of your world.

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Speaker 3: You know, true, maybe that's maybe something that's been especially

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Speaker 3: part of the experience of being like feeling like you're

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Speaker 3: being torn in half all the time. Maybe that's relatively

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Speaker 3: common in the two by two group because there's a

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Speaker 3: setup between man's desires and God's desires, and one of

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Speaker 3: these is much more valid than the other. So kind

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Speaker 3: of a built in and validation of human experience, right,

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Speaker 3: because this isn't godly, because it is wrong, it's not right,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, it's meaningless. Big one for me. Animals

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Speaker 3: don't have souls.

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Speaker 1: Animals don't have souls.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a two by two believe.

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Speaker 3: And so if you are upset about pet that has

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Speaker 3: passed away, why would you mourn something has no soul?

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Speaker 3: Ad no hope of eternity? Oh, why would you expend energy?

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Speaker 3: I'm love on something that has no soul?

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Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness.

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Speaker 3: And I grew up with cats. And when I actually

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Speaker 3: offered to go in the work, they had I think

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Speaker 3: they were sixteen years old. One lived she was eighteen,

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Speaker 3: the other lived in he was twenty. But yeah, twenty

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Speaker 3: years with friend. Yeah, but that friend doesn't matter. And

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Speaker 3: that my parents never that was never from my dad,

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Speaker 3: But that was definite from the workers, especially worker.

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Speaker 2: So when your cats did pass, was there sort of

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Speaker 2: this pushback against you grieving them?

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Speaker 3: Why would you? Why would you even have something like that? Right? Right,

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Speaker 3: and to the point where I had older companion and

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Speaker 3: grandparents tell their grandchildren that they weren't allowed to have

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Speaker 3: a pet, especially a cat or because the workers might

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Speaker 3: be allergic and if they are, then they couldn't come

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Speaker 3: and stay with us. So workers staying with you is

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Speaker 3: far more important than anything to do with a pet,

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Speaker 3: any of the arguments for responsibility and anything like that.

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Speaker 1: Wid I imagine that was very difficult when you initially

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Speaker 1: left for the work, because you're leaving not only your

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Speaker 1: parents behind. It sounds like you have a very high

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Speaker 1: like sensitivity to being separated from your mom but also

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Speaker 1: your precious little cats. And you can't really complain about it.

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Speaker 5: Because it's it's a very like pull up yourself by

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Speaker 5: the bootstraps kind of mentality of like, yeah, so no

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Speaker 5: complaining about that, would I could see really being allowed?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of the very British idea, right, it's

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Speaker 3: definitely really yes, everything's fine, And even in meetings, right,

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Speaker 3: you're supposed to deliver emotionally charge on tent without any

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Speaker 3: display of any outward emotion.

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Speaker 2: Not even positive emotion, like.

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Speaker 1: Like never really like I said one I was, I

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Speaker 1: A lot of people cried with sadness, but there was

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Speaker 1: there was no joy.

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Speaker 2: That's like, no spiritual tears like I feel the spirit

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Speaker 2: so deeply.

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Speaker 1: Or as far as I remember, it's never like like

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Speaker 1: it's like I feel so unworthy, unworthy, unworthy.

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Speaker 6: My this is so depressing to the point of that

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Speaker 6: was another thing that was honestly walking at the churches

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Speaker 6: for this idea of worship and praise being allowed and

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Speaker 6: happy things.

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Speaker 3: Like what a bunch of freaks, a bunch of weirdos.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we really love that.

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Speaker 3: How dare they be so that? I really think God

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Speaker 3: cares about that sort of demonstration. But he has a

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Speaker 3: loving father to all of us, but also hates us.

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Speaker 2: All right, So you got this feeling and eventually you

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Speaker 2: gave into the feeling, and so can you just tell

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Speaker 2: us a bit about what it was like at first,

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Speaker 2: because you know you are in the midst of this

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Speaker 2: deep separation and doing the thing you really don't want

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Speaker 2: to do. You said you had plans for your life.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so did you feel like you had done

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Speaker 2: the right thing. And where did you where did you

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Speaker 2: first go? I mean, what was it like?

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Speaker 3: So I offered to Mark Huddle when I was twenty

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Speaker 3: one years old, and what does that mean? So I

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Speaker 3: he was the overseer, So he's head worker, boss worker,

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Speaker 3: or he was at that point for Washington, North Idaho

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Speaker 3: as good. So he oversaw all of the ministers in

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Speaker 3: those locations and directed who went where at what point

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Speaker 3: in time and with who. So the standard procedure to

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Speaker 3: go in the work is you would once upon a

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Speaker 3: time it was a uterrital letter to the overseer and

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Speaker 3: make your intention that you felt you'd been coupled to

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Speaker 3: the work and you were offering your life to the overseer.

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Speaker 3: Then he would reply and respond to either go or

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Speaker 3: no go. So it took me a lot of courage,

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Speaker 3: work up a lot of courage to do it, but

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Speaker 3: I went and I literally used the words standing in

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Speaker 3: front of mar Tuddle, all that I am, all my plans,

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Speaker 3: all my thoughts, all my dreams belong to the work

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Speaker 3: and to you, if you'll have and realizing in myself,

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Speaker 3: oh well this meant I was declaring that I would

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Speaker 3: no longer have a spouse, especially because I'd send before already,

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Speaker 3: and if I went with anyone but her, it was

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Speaker 3: a great shot ticket to help. I was going to

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Speaker 3: sell everything I had, the cats that I loved, I

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Speaker 3: leave behind, my parents, I leave behind my dream of

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Speaker 3: medical school would be left one and so I'd laid

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Speaker 3: that down and okay, long story start, you said, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we'll be in touch upon That was right before I convention.

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Speaker 3: It started in the last So I waited for five

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Speaker 3: years to go in the works.

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Speaker 1: I did not realize that though.

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Speaker 3: I offered when I was twenty one. In between, I

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Speaker 3: went to university and almost essentially lost out. More people

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Speaker 3: would have considered that to be to have happened. Quit

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Speaker 3: going to meetings, I was going to school. This is

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Speaker 3: I don't have time for this. I've got homework. While

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Speaker 3: realizing that I already made this bow myself and to

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Speaker 3: the overseer the state. So it was kind of this, Well,

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Speaker 3: we need you to get a job, we need you

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Speaker 3: to leave home, we need you to get rid of

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Speaker 3: any debt that you might have, show that you're not

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Speaker 3: a burden to anybody. Know what it is to pay

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Speaker 3: your own bills. So eventually I finally got a job

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Speaker 3: and if you know, university and went to another convention.

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Speaker 3: Conventions are kind of centers for this sort of thing, really,

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Speaker 3: And told Mark, you know, I've got getting my debt

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Speaker 3: taken care of student loans and things, get a job,

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Speaker 3: living on my own pan rent. So if a spot

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Speaker 3: were to open up around special meeting time, which in

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Speaker 3: Washington is December, I get laid off on my seasonal

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Speaker 3: job and worked over first. So didn't really think much

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Speaker 3: more of that. Was it like, okay, whatever, back to

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Speaker 3: work doing whatever. And I was actually sitting or doing

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Speaker 3: boat inspections for the city. So I'm sitting on a

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Speaker 3: boat launch and Mark couple called me. I'm supposed to

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Speaker 3: answer my phone at work, but whatever had a coworker

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Speaker 3: there was like, hey man, can you take care of this?

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Speaker 3: I need to take this call fash or whatever. So

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Speaker 3: Mark like, well, do you still feel the same way

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Speaker 3: you did in around Miltown time convention time? Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 3: this is maybe September twenty eighth, twenty ninth. How does

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Speaker 3: say October seventh to fourteenth in Spokane with Ryan Gantz?

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, m h, I said I'd go, So I moved.

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Speaker 3: I was laid out from my job as planned, moved

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Speaker 3: out of Billingham, moved home, sold as much of my

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Speaker 3: stuff as I could, left a lot here at mom

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Speaker 3: and Dad's thankfully. Wow. And two weeks later I was

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Speaker 3: in a car, bought some suitcases and I'd loaded up

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Speaker 3: everything that I had really that had left, and I

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Speaker 3: met my companion in North Bend and waved goodbye to

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Speaker 3: my parents. It was a Tuesday. We drove from North

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Speaker 3: Bend up to Spokane and then of courts called in Washington.

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Speaker 3: I spoke my very first possible meeting the next the

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Speaker 3: next night, and I remember being porn apart with things

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Speaker 3: I pretty much the whole day and struggling to keep

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Speaker 3: that stuff up, really up in the car with my coworkers. Home,

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Speaker 3: got further in through the behind, going to stay with

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Speaker 3: people I'd never met, and so here we went, got up. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm a worker now, and so we even trying to

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Speaker 3: figure out what worker casual was was a huge struggle.

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Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, you wear shirt and tie and dress

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Speaker 3: slacks and things when you speak, but when you're not

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Speaker 3: in meetings, but what you wear, what's acceptable, what's not?

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Speaker 3: And so kind of what we've been talking about is

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Speaker 3: the extent of my training for going in the work.

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Speaker 3: That was it?

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Speaker 1: And they take great pride in that. There's no like

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Speaker 1: Bible school. There's no what's it called seminary.

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Speaker 3: Like, No seminary, no manual.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're just in it now and you might not

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Speaker 1: really understand the Bible. That does not matter because God

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Speaker 1: is automatically now speaking through you and you are a spirit.

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Speaker 2: Led Did you feel that God was speaking through you?

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Speaker 2: I mean, was that how you saw yourself?

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Speaker 3: Never? Mm hmm it was that was? Maybe?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: For sure, it was the biggest hope and desire, shall

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Speaker 3: we say using two by two lango now of my being,

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Speaker 3: was that I could be that he would I have

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Speaker 3: no idea if he would? When? How? But there's a

305
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Speaker 3: don't want to equate yourself. Maybe necessarily I don't believe

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Speaker 3: the Bible really anymore, but the story of Moses, right,

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Speaker 3: what do you expect me to do? You want me

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Speaker 3: to leave these people and talk to them? I can

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Speaker 3: barely get a sentence out straight. What the heck do

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Speaker 3: you mean? You want me to talk to them? I

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Speaker 3: can't do this. And the idea of yeah, me and

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Speaker 3: mouth piece weak making words divide. I think that's that's

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Speaker 3: one of the hymns, and so feeling that that I

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Speaker 3: don't know, and spending hours on my knees out in

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Speaker 3: my bed begging for something to say, and up until

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Speaker 3: ten minutes before I was supposed to go up with

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Speaker 3: my coworker to the front and start the meeting like

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Speaker 3: I have. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It feels like it just sets up a system where

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Speaker 1: like a narcissistic personality type is having an easier time

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Speaker 1: as something like this than somebody who genuinely is like

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Speaker 1: I have to play the violin and like, come on,

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Speaker 1: God speak through me, you know, Like it seems as

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Speaker 1: though those who are sincerely seeking for this miracle to occur.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like a narcissi is in that position, who's not

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Speaker 2: so humble, we have a very shfferent experience. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: was thinking the same thing, like you know, for other people,

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Speaker 2: I imagine they enter that position and they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm in the position of authority now God speaks for me.

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Speaker 2: So anything I say, that's that's God's word, you know,

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Speaker 2: and would maybe in der it that way instead of

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Speaker 2: how you did, which is you know, more grounded. But

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Speaker 2: how many people would you typically be speaking to in

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Speaker 2: a meeting.

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Speaker 3: So my first year was a bit interesting. We varied.

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Speaker 3: I ended up with my coworker being part of two

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Speaker 3: large field being combined because an older sister worker had

338
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Speaker 3: to retire. So maybe the last six months my first

339
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Speaker 3: year we set up for between two hundred to two

340
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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty people for a meeting, and.

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Speaker 2: This would be inside people's homes in their yards.

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Speaker 3: This one, the large setup, was in a elementary school,

343
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Speaker 3: kind of a combined school in Spokane Valley. This huge

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Speaker 3: gym that we'd set up in so rose upon rose

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Speaker 3: upon rose, folding chair.

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Speaker 2: So it's more traditionally similar to a church, I guess

347
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Speaker 2: in that way where it's not in a house. It's

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Speaker 2: like in a large.

349
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Speaker 3: Right the gospel meetings, which is where the workers run everything,

350
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Speaker 3: and the congregation doesn't speak at all in those generally

351
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Speaker 3: they're expected to sit and listen. So I had meetings

352
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Speaker 3: and we didn't do it in a whole once a

353
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Speaker 3: large home that because there was nowhere else we could find.

354
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Speaker 3: Community centers, a wildlife rescue center, lodge, funeral homes were

355
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Speaker 3: usually pretty good. Many high schools, elementary schools in the

356
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Speaker 3: gym let's see senior center. Senior centers were often used

357
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Speaker 3: the point of being in a little lobby where, yeah,

358
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Speaker 3: we got kind of annoyed because residents kept coming to

359
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Speaker 3: check their mail out. Dare they while we were having

360
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Speaker 3: part of little gospel meeting?

361
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Speaker 2: And how long were you a worker for?

362
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Speaker 3: So I started in twenty sixteen. I eventually left in

363
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Speaker 3: the spring of twenty twenty two, so about six years.

364
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Speaker 1: So can you talk to us about the process of

365
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 1: this veneer of what being a worker appeared to be

366
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Speaker 1: and what it actually was started to change.

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Speaker 3: And that was one of the things, like, well it

368
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Speaker 3: was mentioning, like the narcissistic person kind of maybe doing

369
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Speaker 3: really well was I was literally told by one point

370
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Speaker 3: by an older coworker, why are you stressing about so much?

371
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Speaker 3: Just say something doesn't matter, God's speaking free, just get

372
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Speaker 3: on with it. What are you so upset about? And

373
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Speaker 3: I'd be to the point of nearly vomiting before every meeting,

374
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Speaker 3: and again nearly vomiting with relief afterwards that Okay, it's done,

375
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Speaker 3: I have anywhere from two to four more days, and

376
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Speaker 3: telling how to do this again. And so a lot

377
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 3: of what started to happen is we went the veneer

378
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Speaker 3: that started to peel off what I thought worker was

379
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Speaker 3: and what worker is. One experience we had my very

380
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Speaker 3: first year a worker and I went to go and

381
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Speaker 3: stay with this young man apartment with the known to

382
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Speaker 3: have or struggle with severe bipolar disorder. And so we

383
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Speaker 3: went and stayed with him, his little apartment, his little dog,

384
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Speaker 3: and around the dinner table, he just started talking about

385
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Speaker 3: some of his experiences job. He was glad to have

386
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Speaker 3: a job, and so I just kind of opened up

387
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 3: a bought some of my own experiences, like, yeah, I

388
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Speaker 3: know what that dark is. I've seen that dark. I've

389
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Speaker 3: been in that dark. I know what it is. That

390
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 3: the words I use, I think, is to look into

391
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Speaker 3: what you feel like hell as hell and hell look

392
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 3: back and trying to and then telling him it's like, yeah,

393
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 3: the pit is deep and dark, but the latter, at

394
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Speaker 3: the grace and love of God is longer, and trying

395
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 3: to tell this young fellow that maybe he's maybe six

396
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 3: years my senior, that hey, look, there's there's there's hope.

397
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 3: There's there's a source of hope. Even in the depths

398
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 3: of or shall we say, mental illness, there's there's hope.

399
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Speaker 3: And so I okay that that. I thought that went splendidly.

400
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 3: I felt like I could connect with this this guy

401
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 3: shared experiences and so okay. Eventually went to bed, my

402
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 3: older coworker kind of got start cutting me off a

403
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 3: little bit. Oh okay, okay, Well, so this fellow left

404
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 3: and he had to go to work the next morning.

405
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 3: So we packed up, left and we're in the car,

406
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 3: I think by that point, and my coworker looks at

407
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 3: me and says, who do you think you are? I

408
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 3: if I could have gotten away with kicking you under

409
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: the table the dinner table, I would have to get

410
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 3: you to shut up. That visit went way more than

411
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 3: I wanted it to, and that was out of that

412
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 3: was wrong. And what you said was in an approach.

413
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 3: Please don't ever do that again. Why because that conversation deeper,

414
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 3: and you need to be sensitive to other people's feelings

415
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 3: and thoughts, and that was just inappropriate as a younger

416
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 3: brother worker. Even you haven't been doing that this long.

417
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 3: You haven't been in the work very long, so you

418
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 3: need to be stylent.

419
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,479
Speaker 1: If somebody's experiencing big emotions, as I'm sure this gentleman was,

420
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: there's a tendency to like intellectualize it, kind of keep

421
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: your distance from it, be there. But I can see

422
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 1: where they would be scared of somebody admitting their own

423
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: weaknesses going down there with them to meeting. Yeah, you

424
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: can go to meeting with people for thirty years and

425
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: know them so well but have no idea what they're

426
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: actually really struggling with because we we have to pretend

427
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: to be perfect. So yeah, having real like conversations like

428
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: that would be unusual but not incorrect. But I could

429
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: see why your companion would want to squell shit.

430
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 3: And yeah, so that I was kind of devastated. It's like, wait,

431
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: I thought the whole my understanding of the whole purpose

432
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Speaker 3: of why I'm doing what I'm doing is to care

433
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 3: for God's people. Yeah, the yeah, why is it that

434
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 3: this is something I do kind of know about? Right?

435
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 3: What do you mean? Okay, yeah, I get it, I'm junior,

436
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 3: all right, fine, And so that pattern started to repeat.

437
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: It though some visits at being told you're too much,

438
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 3: you're talking too much, you're interacting too much, you need

439
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: to be quieter and don't be real with people. We're not.

440
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 3: My whole thought was to be genuine, but the message

441
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 3: kept getting repeated over and over. We're not necessarily here

442
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 3: to be genuine. Oh, we're here to preach the gospel.

443
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: And there's no feeling in the gospel. It's just doom.

444
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: And so the other one was. So that was my

445
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 3: first year. My second year, we got put in a

446
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 3: field with a very serious domestic violence if you mm hmm,

447
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: and all the whole field knew about it. Wow, And

448
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 3: long story short about trying compromising too many people. I

449
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 3: remember my older coworker and I older coworker who's now

450
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 3: very vocal about anyone who leaves the religion as being

451
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 3: enemies of the ministry. We're sitting with Mark Huddle, and

452
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 3: the woman that was involved was an old family friend

453
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 3: I grew up together. And I sat across from Mark

454
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 3: Huddle in a restaurant, dribbling snot and tears on my shirt,

455
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 3: just begging for this woman to be protected from her abuser,

456
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 3: that something needed to be done and an availability for

457
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 3: her to still being meetings needed to be explored and

458
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 3: away from for a use. Michael Workers sat there and

459
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 3: said nothing. Then Mark loved me a story about the

460
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 3: about Nathan going to David when David had gone and

461
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 3: slept with meth Sheba and then had her husband murdered,

462
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: and he took The prophet told the story about a

463
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: lamb and David said, well, that man is worthy to die.

464
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 3: The prophet said, you're that man. And Mark said, you

465
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 3: haven't considered who you are in this situation. What you

466
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 3: haven't considered what it is to be more concerned with

467
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 3: judgment than it is to be concerned with mercy and justice.

468
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: And so you need to be very very careful that

469
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 3: you are not the man that is killing the sheet

470
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 3: that somebody else is.

471
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: That's somebody else's What does that mean someone else?

472
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: Yeah? What does the way I interpret it is is, yeah,

473
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 3: you're just as guilty as this man. So you need

474
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 3: to look to your own One of the phrases that

475
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 3: gets used off is to work your own salvation with

476
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 3: fear and fear and trembling.

477
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: Yes, fear and trembling is a big term, and I

478
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: think where the two by twos get lost in the weeds.

479
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: A lot is to be alive, is to air. So

480
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: everything it's called a sin. I've been such a sinner.

481
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: Maybe you had too much cookies that day, Maybe you're

482
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: molesting a child. They're put in the same exact basket

483
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: of just sin.

484
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: So what's the difference?

485
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: Wow, what's the difference? Wow? Who are you to judge?

486
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: And that's where this is getting really complicated in modern

487
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: day But yeah, Warren, So they're saying, he's essentially saying

488
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: to you're not perfect either, although you're not beating anyone.

489
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: So who are you to judge?

490
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: So worry about your own sin? And don't worry about

491
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: this woman who's being beaten?

492
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 3: Wow?

493
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 4: Wow?

494
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: And her children?

495
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 3: So that was a huge crap in this. Yeh, what

496
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 3: I thought i'd signed up for? Yeah, what I thought

497
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: I had left everything behind for?

498
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: And what was Oh my goodness.

499
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 3: That situation dominated my second year and multiple there's other

500
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 3: there's an elder there that I'm ninety nine point nine

501
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 3: percent sure as a child was a child in wester

502
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: as well. Oh my gosh. Wow. And yet I can

503
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: say nothing the use of the Bible against members against

504
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 3: workers that you don't go to law with the brethren,

505
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: you don't get the law involved. Social workers are evil,

506
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: the lead you astray. Divorced counselors are evil, the eleek

507
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 3: to astray. Mental health counselors are not to be trusted.

508
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: They are ungodly people, why would you associate such?

509
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: So is there any recourse for someone at least during

510
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: the time when you were a worker, was there any

511
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: recourse for someone who is experiencing harm at the hands

512
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: of someone else in the group, Like if you can't

513
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: go to cops, you can't go to a social worker,

514
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: you can't go to a healthcare person. And then the

515
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: workers are told to mind their own business because they're

516
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: sinners too. Is there any recourse at all?

517
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 3: You go to the older workers and what do they

518
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 3: do historically? Yeah, and with most information that we have

519
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 3: at least ninety percent of the time, absolutely not wow

520
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 3: or if anything right to the victim to go back

521
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: and to stick around, is that there is that.

522
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: Ten percent that people can point to where people do

523
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: do the right thing. And I was sent to a therapist,

524
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, when I was younger. I have very devout parents,

525
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: so parts of the system are different and trusted, and

526
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, people can make a point of like we

527
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: like therapists, or like we use the social worker in

528
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: this case, and that's true. But in the wider scope

529
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: of things, where you're correct, I agree.

530
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 2: And did you say that because divorce is so discouraged.

531
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: They would be encouraged to stay with an abusive partner.

532
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you go back. Your soul is worth more than

533
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 3: this suffering, which might be for a little while.

534
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god. One of the biggest sins to commit

535
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: in this church is to get divorced. And you're encouraged

536
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: to not have sex before marriage. So obviously people are

537
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: going to get married when they're young, and then if

538
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: you get divorced, you're not allowed to remarry. If you do,

539
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,239
Speaker 1: you've lost your part in meeting and you can no

540
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: longer take part. It's like workers have meddled so deeply

541
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: into getting somebody who gets into a new good relationship,

542
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: even married. I read one girl's experience on Facebook out

543
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: of that relationship and back into her old abusive relationship

544
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: so that she is not divorced and can still take

545
00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: part in meeting.

546
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god, holy cow. So I imagine over time

547
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: having these experiences would be wearing on your conscience and

548
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: you'd be feeling that cognitive dissonance, right.

549
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 3: And yeah, like I said, that was that and my

550
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 3: own deteriorating mental health from two times a week four

551
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 3: times a week one year, my third year in the work,

552
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 3: we were having three gospel meetings a week, plus Bible

553
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 3: studies plus morning meetings, and I basically fell apart by

554
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: a lot twenty twenty five pounds in about a month

555
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 3: and a half. WHOA, I could eat and sleep, sleep

556
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: for a little while, wake up, roll over and start

557
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 3: trying to pray, fall asleep, praying, feel terrible, wake up, Wow,

558
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: the reds repeat. And it got to the point that

559
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 3: that year I actually had to ask my opinion, can

560
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: we please only have two meetings a week because I

561
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: just can't. And I set up a system for myself,

562
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 3: building all the workers dirty laundry, but having I had

563
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: a little note carr that I would write down verbatim

564
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 3: what I had over the week painstakingly gathered or that

565
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 3: the last few days gathered to try and see and

566
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 3: everything still have I haven't worked up the courage to

567
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 3: burn all my notes yet, but so i'd have that

568
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: and try and stick to the script. And so, yeah,

569
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: falling apart in meetings. It started with my very first

570
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 3: gospel meeting and lasted through the very last.

571
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

572
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 2: So I feel like what I've heard, you know, just

573
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: through this podcast in Megan about what's been having in

574
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: this group so much of it pertains to you know,

575
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 2: workers being in the in families, homes and abusing sexually

576
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: abusing children and then just kind of being moved around.

577
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: The part of the story that I really hadn't heard

578
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: was how workers also are being put through hell in

579
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: many circumstances. I mean, you know, there are these instances

580
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: of these abusers that are not handled, they are not

581
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: brought to the correct authorities, and more children are allowed

582
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: to be abused. But then there's also people who are

583
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: workers who genuinely want to help and are not even

584
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: allowed the opportunity to do so. And you know, are

585
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: just kind of yes, trapped in this life like you were.

586
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: And I appreciate you sharing all of that with us.

587
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: If you think about it, in a lot of ways,

588
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,719
Speaker 3: the imbalance of power in a companion, right, the younger

589
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: worker is essentially how powerless by their older companion. What

590
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 3: the older one says goes. The old one makes all

591
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 3: the plans where you stay for how long, when, what,

592
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 3: what your meal plans are, which you do with your day,

593
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: how long the Bible study after breakfast lasts. That's all dictated.

594
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: And you don't have a you don't have a bedroom,

595
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: you don't have a schedule, you don't have a house,

596
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: you don't have any I mean, you're.

597
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: Literally there's no stability.

598
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: It's like a you're like a circus performer.

599
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 3: And we joke, a lot of Washington staff would joke, but.

600
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fishboll Yeah, because you have no price, there.

601
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 3: Is no privacy. And yeah, I've probably spent about a

602
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 3: month's worth of trying to cry quietly in my room

603
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 3: so no one else put here. And so that pretty common.

604
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: It's very established that this is the way this work.

605
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 3: It does work, don't mess with it. And to the

606
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 3: point of yeah, after one gospel meeting I was I

607
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 3: was asked, is there something wrong with you? I mean,

608
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 3: is it just like emotion or something, or is there

609
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 3: like something physically wrong that you cry your meeting? You're

610
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 3: discouraging people. I actually got taken aside by an elder

611
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 3: one time, like basically saying, starting deal, what gives hm?

612
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 3: Why why are you so upset? Not upset? Talk? And

613
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 3: I feel deep in my eyes, Hey, if I could

614
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 3: make it, if I could shut this off, I would,

615
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 3: if I could make it all stop. Yeah done. Yeah,

616
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: but trust me, I've tried. It doesn't work. And so

617
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 3: then the last less straw. Maybe what well, actually, maybe

618
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: one of the things that people are curious about the money.

619
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, because this is a penniless ministry. According to

620
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: what I knew.

621
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: So on my person at any given time or in

622
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 3: my suitcase, I rarely had more than two thousand dollars

623
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 3: and Megan might remember some from some of the posts

624
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 3: on Facebook and things, but that money was generally used

625
00:35:54,200 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 3: for things like toothpaste, deodorant, soap, whatever. Generally what I

626
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 3: used it for, and to pay for phull rent, and

627
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: usually it would be fifty to fifty split a coworker

628
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 3: and I would split where the rent was and he'd

629
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 3: pay out his fun I'd pay out line. And I

630
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 3: have to say that there is something in the way

631
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 3: that it's done amongst the friends. To me, it was

632
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: deeply touching. But a lot of times the way it

633
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 3: would happen is you'd find anywhere from five to one

634
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 3: hundred to three hundred dollars in an envelope on your

635
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 3: bed when you arrived at the home, and the man

636
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: and woman of the home would have ostensibly put that together.

637
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 3: And the other was probably the most humbling experience I've

638
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 3: ever had of where you'd get the money handshake, so

639
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 3: after the meeting there would be this Basically it's like

640
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: a wedding reception, almost a perceiving line, where you shake

641
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: hands with everybody out the door. Yes, sometimes that and

642
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 3: some other religions, and there's not someone so chat with

643
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 3: people as they go out the door back to the home,

644
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 3: and there is I don't think anything in this world

645
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 3: as humbling as having a little widowed lady married eighties

646
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 3: that you know is variably screaking going on our social

647
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 3: security and she shakes your hand. There's a twenty dollar

648
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 3: bill in your hand now and you know how much

649
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 3: and just the percentage of her monthly income that represents,

650
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 3: and you can't give it back. That is, we did

651
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 3: that once or twice. In one case, in the case

652
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: of a divorced man, divorce and remarried man. He tried

653
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 3: to offer us money and we gave it back. Another case,

654
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: someone that wasn't professing yet offered money and we refused.

655
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 3: In both cases, I don't think I've ever seen anyone

656
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 3: quite so set and offended as those people were, and

657
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 3: I feel terrible. But in the case of the divorce

658
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 3: and remarried man, my coworker and I discussed it in

659
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 3: agreement stick. Yeah, you don't don't feel comfortable taking this,

660
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 3: So back in the envelope went and man and it

661
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 3: was explained that it was because of his situation situation

662
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 3: being divorced and remarried. And maybe that's something that dismissed

663
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 3: too in the touristy marriage talk at least on the

664
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 3: West coast ecotomy east west from Colorado East. Generally, if

665
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 3: you're divorced and remarried, it's my understanding that you're allowed

666
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 3: to still take part in me anywhere west of that. Absolutely,

667
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 3: not Oregon, Washington and Alaska, California, ASA, who, Montana and Wyoming,

668
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 3: b C Alberta the same thing. Nope, there's a line

669
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 3: and that's not.

670
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: Cross right, but in some bosses you.

671
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: But yeah, the idea is returning.

672
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 7: Hello, I'm Robbia Jaudrey. I invite you to join me

673
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,120
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674
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,439
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676
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,280
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677
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,720
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678
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,400
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679
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680
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681
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: It's just so weird because I didn't. I wasn't in

682
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: this religion when I would have access to like my

683
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: own home, you know, open home for the workers. So

684
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: I all A lot of the message is like, we're

685
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: a penniless ministry. It's so bad to send around the

686
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: collection plate, like accepting money. No, no, no, because it's

687
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: all about going out on faith. But it is. One

688
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: of the things that was shocking to me was that, yeah,

689
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 1: there's there's a collection of money. Duh, how else would

690
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: people live like? I don't know why I didn't even

691
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: think of that. It's just a very convolated and complicated situation.

692
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: And we were very much discouraged in Washington from I

693
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 3: was chained by older coworkers for having a checking account

694
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 3: that I kept from before. It's like they'd have these

695
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 3: to go cash reloadable cards that you can get a

696
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 3: more or whatever. Well, it turns out when I looked

697
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 3: at it, most of those have fees. Keep them open, right,

698
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 3: I'm not paying not using the friends money to pay

699
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 3: essentially a bank account when I've got one already, but

700
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 3: supposedly these were holier they have because yeah, pearance is

701
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 3: of a penless ministry, so visa gift sort of deal, right,

702
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 3: blue Bird I think was a primary one that I

703
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 3: was told a good one to use. And one of

704
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 3: the things that I was never told and found out.

705
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 3: My first invention is at the end of spring conventions Washington,

706
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 3: that's usually middle of you take all this money that

707
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 3: you've received, whatever you have, you give that to the

708
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 3: brother worker that's in charge of the convention perhaps, and

709
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: you there's a piece of paper, and you know down

710
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 3: how much money you have in any bank account, card, whatever,

711
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 3: So you write down, put all your money in an envelope,

712
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 3: and you gave it to this older brother for convention.

713
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 3: At the end of the convention, before you go back

714
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 3: to your field, you would get an envelope generally about

715
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 3: one thousand dollars, and each of the workers would receive

716
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 3: an envelope. I'm assuming and I was told roughly about

717
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 3: one thousand dollars per and the idea is that you

718
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 3: spread out whatever received. So there's I was shocked to

719
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 3: find this out. I guess sister workers get given less

720
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 3: money than brother workers, so women get less money. The

721
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 3: pay gap exists sadly even in the mystery, and so

722
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 3: the idea is to spread it out, redistribute so everyone

723
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 3: has the exact same test. Start ability to pay gas

724
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 3: in the car I was a big It was probably

725
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 3: the number one expense. I think we put twenty twenty

726
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 3: five thousand while I was on a car usually in

727
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: a year, just driving around, driving around the field, back

728
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 3: and forth, the meetings and such. So yeah, that was

729
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 3: the big distribution center would be these conventions. So the

730
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 3: older brother that was one of their responsibilities was to

731
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 3: divide up the cash and use what was needed for

732
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 3: convention for convention, then divide it up and how it goes.

733
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 3: And really that's about the amount that I ever knew

734
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 3: about what happened with money. There was one a couple

735
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 3: occasions in my first year getting visitors for convention. Okay,

736
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 3: so we I was given all right, you get maybe

737
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 3: we try and keep it under eight hundred dollars for

738
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 3: a ticket. But so and so needs to get from

739
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 3: this point to this point. Help me find flights to

740
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 3: get them there, and here's the car number. Use that

741
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 3: put it in purchased tickets and let me know.

742
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 2: So any excess money is like above your pay grade,

743
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: basically like you don't know, you don't know where it's going.

744
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: And that was actually a joke, like, yep, yep, that's

745
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 3: above my pay grade. Well, I don't know.

746
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 1: Learning now what we have from collecting all of our

747
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 1: information together, I mean, do you see things differently. There's

748
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: rumors that some overseers have access to a lot of money.

749
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 1: Do you think that that's a possibility.

750
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 3: Cautiously, I think it might be a possibility, one thing

751
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 3: that maybe gets misunderstood. And I always found a little

752
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 3: bit weird. It's interesting when you're living in other people's

753
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 3: homes what you see and the differences in the way

754
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 3: people live. And yeah, some places are a whole lot

755
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: nicier to stay in the unders and there are the

756
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 3: very very wealthy friends. I mean, I've stayed in what

757
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 3: I'd consider a palace to the point of I couldn't

758
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 3: figure out how to turn off the lights. To have

759
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 3: been it was this fancy do hicky things like I'm

760
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 3: some poor farmed kids from egg community. I grew up

761
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: in a small house. I don't know how the heck,

762
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 3: do I turn stupid plightoff? I want to poke too

763
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 3: many buttons because what's this do I don't know? I

764
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 3: set off a fire alarm somewhere who knows? And of

765
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 3: course the excuse that I was given as well. We

766
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 3: stay with the people, will stay longer with people who

767
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 3: can bear the expense of having so usually that meant

768
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 3: these wealthy family and my last two two and a half, yeah,

769
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 3: two years in the work ish were spent living with

770
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 3: and working both as a minister and as a full

771
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 3: time caregiver to the brother of one of these wealthy men.

772
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 1: Wow, that's during COVID.

773
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 3: It started during COVID. I came on the end of

774
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, so yeah, it was right in the middle.

775
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 3: And yeah, we were a worker and I were essentially it.

776
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 3: This family leveraged us for everything we were worth, and

777
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 3: that we were full time meal providers. We took this

778
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 3: man to every doctor's appointment we needed, and we were

779
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,479
Speaker 3: expected to coordinate his care and also not neglect being

780
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 3: ministers at the same time. And that situation extremely unusual

781
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 3: for workers.

782
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 1: Right, yes, or heard of anything like it.

783
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 3: And that situation kind of came to be the reason

784
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 3: for my undoing and leaving the work, and yeah, this

785
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 3: man would come into his brother's home. There's lots of

786
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 3: events now if you have time to talk about. But

787
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 3: multiple times I'd be given five six hundred dollars in

788
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: a single handshake. And for me, it was sitting there

789
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 3: looking at this thing like I don't need this, I

790
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 3: don't know what to do with it, giving to charity

791
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 3: big trying to explain this to my partner right now.

792
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 3: She doesn't understand. It's like, what do you mean. There's

793
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 3: no soup kitchens, know nothing, there's donation sites, there's nothing.

794
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 3: I have this money, I don't know what to do with.

795
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 3: One of what I do is I'd write letters and

796
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 3: write letters to workers in other countries, include anywhere from

797
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 3: fifty tow one hundred dollars per letter and send them

798
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: with the hope For me personally, I often targeted letters

799
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 3: to lady ministers after being told that hey, they don't.

800
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 1: Get as much more and we love you, and.

801
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 3: So it was like, well, I have I have more

802
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 3: than I know what to do with. I don't need this,

803
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: and so write letters. And that was the only way

804
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 3: I knew to deal with the excess.

805
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 2: Right, And was it the access that contributed to you're

806
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: leaving or what about that situation.

807
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 3: So in that situation my coworker prior to that, with

808
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 3: COVID things, I had to talk to my previous coworker

809
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 3: and say, look, I need to go home. We were

810
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 3: living in a wond room cabin, isolated during COVID, having

811
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 3: meetings over the phone, preaching over the phone. And he

812
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 3: is a morning person. I am decidedly not so here

813
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 3: we were and he'd get up at four thirty in

814
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 3: the morning. I was sleeping in a loft. He get

815
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 3: up a four thirty in the morning banging pots and pans,

816
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 3: getting ready to go fishing, and a boat that the

817
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 3: people had provided for a house that wasn't ours provided

818
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 3: for us everything paid. People would bring us groceries, which

819
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 3: was kind of incredible. Really it's at the time felt

820
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 3: really beautiful. Anyway, there was a beautiful.

821
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: Aspect to it, and a lot of the people in

822
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: it are some of my favorite people in the world.

823
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I love a community supporting a community.

824
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: I mean, to me, that is wonderful. I wish we

825
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: had more of that in our culture. I don't think

826
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: there's anything inherently wrong with that, but go on.

827
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so anyway, I'd moved into this other situation

828
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 3: of being a full time caregimer because the new list

829
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 3: came out. So the list comes out and you go

830
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 3: where the list says with whoo, list says, that's the

831
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 3: overseer that puts that together generally and is the still

832
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 3: mark this was marked at this point. Yeah, and so

833
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 3: I went and went joined this man and it developed.

834
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 3: I kind of again asked like a point that I

835
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 3: was back at a number of meeting that we're going to have.

836
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 3: It's really difficult for me. I feel I did better

837
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 3: home on one and things small visits. Can we do that?

838
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 3: So long story start, we were having meetings with this, uh,

839
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 3: this couple town in Shelton, Mexican folks that been having

840
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 3: meetings for them for years, but leading up to this

841
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 3: point spoke hardly in the English, and so I with

842
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 3: my previous coworker that we were living in the cabin,

843
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 3: we'd go drive hour and a half or so one

844
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: way to go and have a meeting with these folks.

845
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 3: He spoke Spanish fluently, so he can interpret for me.

846
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 3: So we kind of have these whole gospel studies that

847
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 3: continued when I started being a caregiver as well, we'd

848
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 3: still keep going. So my companion at the time needed

849
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 3: to go down to California to see this earlier, so

850
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 3: he did, and while he was gone, I was expected

851
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 3: to continue to have these studies alone with these folks

852
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 3: that their daughters spoke English, very very well born and

853
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 3: raised in States, but the parents didn't. So I went

854
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 3: and had these alone with these folks, dear people anyway,

855
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 3: And Okay, so managed to kind of It's like, well,

856
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 3: I want to make it worth their while. They put

857
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 3: all this effort for us. They generally feed us meal afterwards,

858
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 3: stretch it out for an hour, right, Okay, got to

859
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 3: have content.

860
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: He's using quotations to engage with these.

861
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 3: With folks from the Bible. Okay, So I did that

862
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 3: for two weeks, and then my coworker returned, and he

863
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 3: came back and me going more than my half hour,

864
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 3: and meetings had kind of been a routine thing, trying

865
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 3: desperately for me myself to wrap it up, or finding

866
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 3: that I had more to say on my little note

867
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 3: card than could be fit. So I'd been kind of

868
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 3: a background problem, and I'd been yelled at multiple times

869
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 3: by multiple companions to cut it out for speaking too long,

870
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 3: for speaking too long, got you that was disrespectful to them.

871
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 3: With the older one MM, this man knew that he

872
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 3: returned at her little study and kind of winding down,

873
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 3: It's like, well, only there's there's more to this we

874
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 3: can talk about before excited, So I waited. Nobody was

875
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 3: getting up, so okay, maybe shut something else and okay,

876
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 3: kind of tell opinion was getting a bit antsy about it.

877
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 2: All right, but he was there. He had not you

878
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: said he'd gone away.

879
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 3: He'd gone away and returned, and so this is the

880
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 3: first time since he he'd returned it, and so okay,

881
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 3: I'm kind of wrapped up, wrapped up the stop. Okay, great,

882
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 3: and I got started prepping for supper. I just went

883
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 3: over to him and class, thank you for translating for me.

884
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 3: He interpreted that as I was coming to ask forgiveness

885
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 3: for going over, and that's the best I can figure.

886
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 3: He said, I know I'm not happy and turned away

887
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,959
Speaker 3: from me. Enter the most awkward supper I have ever

888
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: had in my life. And so we get out, finally

889
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 3: get through that. It's appreciating try not to show that

890
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 3: the ministry needs to be United. So here we are

891
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 3: and trying to put on a good show for these folks.

892
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 3: Get to the door of door, throw away them goodbye,

893
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 3: and he just lights into me. You are a narcissist

894
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 3: of the first order. Who do you think you are?

895
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 3: It's so disrespectful. What on earth were you trying to do?

896
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 3: You know this is a problem you have. Why haven't

897
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 3: fixed it? And I was driving totally falling apart in

898
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 3: the driver's sept MM. It's like I was just coming

899
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 3: to say thank you. I'm sorry, m M. I was

900
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 3: coming to say thank you for translating for me, and

901
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 3: I know I'd went a bit long, and I'm really sorry.

902
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 3: Never mind tend to be disrespectful, usurp anybody. I'm working

903
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 3: on it, and that maybe mollified him a little bit.

904
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 3: So a couple of weeks later, we'd been living at

905
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 3: this house and I said, hey, we're not staying with

906
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 3: anyone else. We're living full time at this house. Can

907
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 3: we go and talk to some of the other folks.

908
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 3: I want to stay with them be more usual workers

909
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 3: would be all right if I made plans to do that.

910
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 3: If you rather not, or you're busy, okay, So made

911
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 3: those plans and made it clear that I didn't really

912
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 3: shifted to my parents for some of these experiences, and

913
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 3: still having air meetings over the song made that simpler.

914
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm really not comfortable going back to

915
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 3: this man's where we've been. There a lot of trauma

916
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 3: there and I just don't feel like it's a safe

917
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 3: place for me. Yeah, oh okay, and that was it.

918
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 3: The next morning I got an email. I need you

919
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,479
Speaker 3: to ask Mark to make different arrangements for you because

920
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 3: where you're currently here is clearly not right and you're

921
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 3: not willing to participate in the mission that we're having

922
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 3: and you're not worthy to continue with these folks. So

923
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 3: I need you to write and ask the overseer. And yeah,

924
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 3: I kind of have to get disconnected still for myself

925
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 3: to even talk.

926
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: About where we are in this story. I mean, what

927
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: do you have to say to people who might be

928
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: listening to this, who are still in the work, who

929
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: might feel like they because we see that a lot

930
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: people who don't know what to do. What's kind of

931
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,760
Speaker 1: what you would say to them? Right now?

932
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 3: The system is broken and some of the greatest moments

933
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 3: of my life we're in the work, so of the

934
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 3: truest moments I think of connection I've ever had. But

935
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 3: the work is disconnected from what it needs to be,

936
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 3: at least in the state the states that I know,

937
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,879
Speaker 3: and this power imbalance and the way that people are

938
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 3: treated has to change. Yeah, and I sincerely doubt from

939
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 3: my own experiences that there ever will be any change.

940
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 3: Those are positions of power and authority are not going

941
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 3: to change.

942
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean it's worth noting the person you

943
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,919
Speaker 1: keep saying that you're reporting to Mark Huddle is now

944
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: what's he under investigation for child molestation? Child molistation? He

945
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 1: has been kicked out of the work. So this person

946
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: you're having to seek your moral guidance from is now

947
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: under investigation or henus crimes. It's the system. You're right,

948
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: it does appear to be broken.

949
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 2: You were in it for the actual correct reasons that

950
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,919
Speaker 2: a person would get into this kind of work, and

951
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 2: at every turn you were stopped from doing that.

952
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

953
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 2: So just Warren, just to get a sense of where

954
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 2: you are now. I mean, you had a dream of

955
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 2: going to medical school. Is that in the is on

956
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 2: the table for you?

957
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 3: It was kind of an amazing set up coming to

958
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 3: find myself and I actually need to be really careful here,

959
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 3: but in a job that I don't find fulfilling either.

960
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 3: And so I've made the decision and applied and been

961
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 3: accepted and accepted their acceptance to start graduate school at

962
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 3: Western Washington University in September. Wow, for marine biology this time.

963
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 3: Oh cool. So I am incredibly excited. Wow, my lady,

964
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 3: my girlfriend is going to move in with me, first

965
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,919
Speaker 3: time for me having a live in girlfriend. Wow, that's

966
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 3: a bit bit of a first.

967
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

968
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 3: And hoping that things are starting to look up a

969
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 3: little bit from here. And maybe in some ways that's

970
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 3: one of the things that it's hard for those that

971
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 3: are still in the work. A lot of them started

972
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 3: in their twenties. They have never had much more of

973
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 3: a job than retail. Very you have college education. But

974
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:06,399
Speaker 3: it's possible to start over.

975
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: It's possible.

976
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 3: I got a huge it's possible to start over. Yeah.

977
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 3: I had a huge benefit of my parents still being

978
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 3: a landing pad for me. Yeah. I was concerned they

979
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 3: wouldn't be Yeah, but they happened.

980
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: I mean, a woman who was who's seventy five, just

981
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 1: stepped away from being a worker. I'm not sure if

982
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: you saw that. Wow, But it's happening.

983
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 2: It is possible to start over.

984
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 4: I love that.

985
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 2: And you know, for anyone who isn't there yet, there

986
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 2: is a support system now at least available to you

987
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 2: that maybe wasn't for people who left a bit earlier. Right,

988
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: there's the Facebook group, there's the website. There's a whole

989
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 2: community of people who are leaving.

990
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,879
Speaker 3: And maybe that's the other thing that would be really

991
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 3: helpful to address for any of them. Listen, the narrative

992
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 3: of being bitter and angry and only out to tear

993
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 3: things down is wrong. Yeah, are there some of us?

994
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 3: I'm starting to count myself in that group. Hope for

995
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 3: the group going forward. Maybe, However, the vast majority of

996
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 3: us are trying to figure out what happened? Who are we?

997
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 3: If this is this truly isn't right, then who are we? Right? Yeah?

998
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 3: And it's a community very similar to what we had

999
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 3: meeting of people who really care for one another. I mean,

1000
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 3: for an online community, it's insane. Yeah, that is much

1001
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 3: of a caring environment, it is.

1002
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, it's good to be honest.

1003
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 3: Maybe they're some feeling, but it's not the focus. Yeah.

1004
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, If you join the x two by two Facebook group,

1005
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: people in the group can see that you're in the group,

1006
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: but people not in the group cannot see that you

1007
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: are in the group. So it is anonymous in that way.

1008
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: If somebody is worried about people seeing them in the group,

1009
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: I let no one in your family can see that

1010
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: you join the group that they're not also in the group.

1011
00:57:59,200 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 3: Exactly.

1012
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, perfect, Wow, Warren, thank you, thank you.

1013
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think this is such a helpful perspective, and

1014
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's just so nice to hear this, this

1015
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 2: sort of side of what has been going on in

1016
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 2: this group and how there really are so many good

1017
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 2: people that are just have just gotten the end of

1018
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: the stick. I thank you. This is what I wanted.

1019
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 2: But so yeah, so thank you so much. And that

1020
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 2: concludes our interview with Warren. And he actually did have

1021
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: something additional to say, right Megan.

1022
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: Warren said he wanted to add something to workers that

1023
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: are still in added on to his message that he

1024
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: already said. He says, Jesus is not in the system.

1025
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 1: Jesus has left the building, and the Jesus of the

1026
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: Bible is no longer the Jesus of the two by

1027
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: two church.

1028
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:42,959
Speaker 4: So that is a message.

1029
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 2: From Warren Yeah, I love that. I think that that's

1030
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 2: such an important distinction for people leaving a church that like,

1031
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that you have to get rid of

1032
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 2: your belief and Christianity or whatever your religion is altogether.

1033
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 2: It just means that maybe that religion in its current

1034
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 2: oeration is not reflecting the values of that belief system

1035
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 2: of that religion in a way that is going to

1036
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 2: be helpful to the world. And you can, you know,

1037
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 2: you can still believe in Jesus. You can still believe

1038
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 2: in the Bible or God or you name the religion

1039
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 2: or belief system and not do it within that structure

1040
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 2: and that framework. Amen, and I say these saying some

1041
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 2: the name of Jesus Christ. Thanks that for that one.

1042
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for talking to us, Warren. That

1043
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 4: was super brave of you.

1044
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see y'all next week. Thanks for

1045
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: hanging out with us this week, and as always, remember

1046
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: to follow your gut, watch out for red flags.

1047
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: And never ever trust me. Ye I trust me. Is

1048
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 2: produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve Delamator.

1049
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 4: The special thanks to Stacy Para.

1050
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

1051
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1052
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult pod, or on TikTok at

1053
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1054
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1055
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Bebraham Hits

1056
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: on Twitter.

1057
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.