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Speaker 1: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you

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Speaker 1: can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in

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Speaker 1: just two visits. Sign up now in the Regal app.

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Speaker 1: We're at the link in the show description and use

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Speaker 1: code film Spot twenty five. That's film Spot twenty five

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Speaker 1: to receive your discount. What kind of a show you

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Speaker 1: guys putting on here today?

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Speaker 2: You're not interested in armed now? No, Look, we're going

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Speaker 2: to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation

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Speaker 2: from Chicago. This is Film Spotting celebrating our twentieth year.

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Speaker 2: I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempenar.

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Speaker 3: This baby hits Eddie Ay, Boss Brauery, I gotta see

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Speaker 3: something serious.

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Speaker 1: Back to the Future is forty and back in theaters.

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Speaker 1: We've fired up the Film Spotting custom built DeLorean and

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Speaker 1: we've got a Sacred Cow review.

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Speaker 2: Plus reviews of Richard link Later's Blue Moon, Catherine Bigelow's

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Speaker 2: A House of Dynamite, the Springsteen biopic deliver Me from Nowhere,

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Speaker 2: and more. It's all ahead on Film Spotting.

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Speaker 4: All fellows, Wow, I can't kiss who.

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Speaker 5: You guys are ready for that yet?

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Speaker 4: But you kids are.

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Speaker 6: Gonna love it.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to film spotting. Somehow, Josh Back to the Future

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Speaker 1: is forty even more distressing. We're a full decade further

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Speaker 1: into the future than the twenty fifteen setting of Back.

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Speaker 2: To the Future Part two.

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Speaker 7: Still no hoverboards though.

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Speaker 2: No hover boards. What's going on? I mean, we've got

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Speaker 2: we've got the electric scooters all over our sidewalks. We've

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Speaker 2: got we have electric skateboards like Marty McFly didn't have

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Speaker 2: and whatever those things. I've seen guys flying around on

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Speaker 2: just one wheel and they're leaning forward with motorcycle helmets.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on there, but I don't

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Speaker 2: think that's a hoverboard either.

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Speaker 1: No, no, we need them coming up. We both watched

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Speaker 1: Richard Linklater's Blue Moon with Ethan Hawk as famed American

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Speaker 1: lyricists Laurence Hart. We saw Catherine Big nuclear thriller A

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Speaker 1: House of Dynamite. Will end with that one because we'll

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Speaker 1: likely get into some discussion of the ending, so we'll

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Speaker 1: give you a spoiler warning, but be warned. I made

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Speaker 1: time for the Springsteen biopic deliver Me from Nowhere. Reviews

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Speaker 1: of all of those films later in the show. We

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Speaker 1: also have results and listener comments from our deeply flawed

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Speaker 1: Robert Redford pull and a new poll which is asking

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Speaker 1: you to choose the second best Robert Zamechis movie. A

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Speaker 1: quick reminder, Film Spotting is now available as a video podcast.

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Speaker 1: If you're a Spotify listener, you can toggle between video

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Speaker 1: and audio, or you can watch the show on YouTube

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Speaker 1: or at film spotting dot net.

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Speaker 2: But first, Robert Zamechis's first best movie, nineteen eighty Five's

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Speaker 2: Back to the Future toy.

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Speaker 3: You want me to make a donation to the cost

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Speaker 3: Card Youth Auxiliary doc.

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Speaker 4: I'm from the future. I came here in a time

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Speaker 4: machine that you invented. Now I need your help to

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Speaker 4: get back to the year nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 6: Do you know what this means?

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Speaker 2: It means that this damn thing doesn't work at all.

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Speaker 2: Even for a time travel movie, Adam Back to the

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Speaker 2: Future is unusually obsessed with time. It's not only the

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Speaker 2: extended opening shot as the camera pans over the countless

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Speaker 2: clocks in Doc Brown's house, or the fact that the

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Speaker 2: climax involves a literal clock tower. Consider also all the

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Speaker 2: instances in the movie that turn on very specific time markers,

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Speaker 2: right down to the minute. Most of these are even

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Speaker 2: called out in lines of dialogue, So we've got eight

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Speaker 2: twenty five am. This is when Marty realizes he's late

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Speaker 2: for school thanks to Docs setting those clocks to be

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Speaker 2: twenty five minutes late. One point fifteen am that's when

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Speaker 2: Marty is supposed to meet Doc at Twin Pines Mall.

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Speaker 2: Twelve twenty eight am is when Marty wakes up in bed.

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Speaker 2: We see that on his clock and he realizes he's

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Speaker 2: going to be late to meet Doc. And maybe most important,

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Speaker 2: eight fifty five pm, when George is supposed to come

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Speaker 2: to Lorraine's rescue in the parking lot at the school dance.

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Speaker 2: If you watched Back to the Future repeatedly as a kid,

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Speaker 2: as I think we both did, those time stamps became

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Speaker 2: ingrained in your memory. Now, for those who didn't grow

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Speaker 2: up on the nineteen eighty five film, a brief primer,

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Speaker 2: directed by Robert Zemeckis and written by Zamechis and Bob Gail,

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Speaker 2: Back to the Future stars Michael J. Fox as teenager

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Speaker 2: Marty McFly. Christopher Lloyd meanwhile plays Doc Brown, a kooky

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Speaker 2: inventor who Marty helps out with various experiments. Doc's latest device,

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Speaker 2: time travel machine in the shape of a Doloran race

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Speaker 2: car in a I certainly sends Marty back to nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifty five, where he encounters his parents as their teenage

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Speaker 2: selves played by Leah Thompson and Crispin Glover. Every performance

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Speaker 2: here is its own sword treasure. So within the movie's narrative,

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Speaker 2: Marty goes back thirty years in the past, from nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty five to nineteen fifty five, and here we are

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Speaker 2: forty years after the release of the film in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five. I have two questions for you, Adam, and

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Speaker 2: they're not inspired. We tend to ask a variation on

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Speaker 2: them with most of our Sacred Coyle reviews, but given

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Speaker 2: how much the nature of time is at play in

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Speaker 2: Back to the Future, this particular prompt may have never

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Speaker 2: been more fitting. What did you think of the movie

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Speaker 2: back in nineteen eighty five and what do you think

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Speaker 2: of it now?

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Speaker 1: It is an appropriate prompt, though I'm disappointed you don't

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Speaker 1: remember when I revealed this ten years ago, when we

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Speaker 1: did our Top five of nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 7: In twenty fifteen, time is a circle. That's true.

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Speaker 1: We were marking the thirtieth anniversary then of that movie year,

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Speaker 1: a pretty bad movie year, by the way, Maybe we

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Speaker 1: can come back to that. I put Back to the

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Speaker 1: Future at number two, then just ahead of the Breakfast

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Speaker 1: Club and behind Akira kurasawas Ron.

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Speaker 7: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I have impeccable movie taste for the PostScript to that list,

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Speaker 1: As we often do, we did our top five of

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Speaker 1: eighty five in eighty five, and I tried to put

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Speaker 1: myself back in that headspace. I was a grade schooler

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Speaker 1: and I head Back to the Future at number one.

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Speaker 1: I'll regalue with tales of how I showed my Back

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Speaker 1: to the Future fandom later as well. Maybe I might

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Speaker 1: bump it back a bit now. I think i'd still

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Speaker 1: have it behind Ron. I might put it behind the

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Speaker 1: Breakfast Club. I'd think about it in the mix with

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Speaker 1: purple rows of Cairo Cone Brother's blood. Simple, it's definitely

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Speaker 1: still in the top five, Josh, I think I can.

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Speaker 1: I can safely say that, And yes to your point

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Speaker 1: about time your question, it's literally one of the all

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Speaker 1: time ticking clock movies, right, Yes, from the clock tower

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Speaker 1: signifying the pending lightning strike to the fact that that

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Speaker 1: opening scene I had never really thought about how long

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Speaker 1: we sit as viewers with the camera circling Doc Brown's room,

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Speaker 1: just hearing and seeing those clocks ticking and like a

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Speaker 1: hundred of them then going off, all those alarms going off.

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Speaker 7: But I'll give you a few more.

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Speaker 1: Doc hits his head in nineteen fifty five hanging a clock.

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Speaker 1: Marty is kind of a man out of time even

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Speaker 1: before he goes back to nineteen fifty five, because he's

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Speaker 1: always shaking his watch at the dinner table. There's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of scenes of him shaking his watch. He never

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Speaker 1: knows what time it is because his watch doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: And Jennifer get very aggressively solicited for a donation, you

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Speaker 1: remember early in the film, to save the clock tower.

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Speaker 1: That's when he gets the flyer, and and I like,

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Speaker 1: what what that woman says? She says, basically that they

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Speaker 1: want to freeze it in time. They want to preserve

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Speaker 1: it just the way it is. And and and how

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Speaker 1: does how does Marty respond when mister Strickland I assume

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Speaker 1: he's like the vice principal or whatever, when when he

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Speaker 1: tells him no mcflies ever amounted to anything in the

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Speaker 1: history of this school. He says history is going to change,

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Speaker 1: and that of course, is also foreshadowing his his eventual

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Speaker 1: time travel. What and this is usually what happens with

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Speaker 1: these sacred cows, what makes them so worthwhile? What entirely

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Speaker 1: justified this rewatch for me was connecting a couple of

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Speaker 1: scenes that I had, of course watched a dozen of

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Speaker 1: dozens of times before, but it never paid any attention to.

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Speaker 1: I was too busy paying attention to already playing Johnny

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Speaker 1: be Good and writing the makeshift skateboard and doing all

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Speaker 1: those those fun things he does driving the DeLorean eighty

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Speaker 1: eight miles per hour whatever. I had certainly never given

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Speaker 1: any credence to these scenes or these moments. Marty says

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Speaker 1: history is going to change because he's he's either so

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Speaker 1: confident his band is going to pass that audition and

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Speaker 1: get the gig playing the dance, or he's just able

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Speaker 1: to display the false confidence that his father never can.

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Speaker 1: Because what does he say after he fails the audition

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Speaker 1: and Jennifer is urging him to send his tape to

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Speaker 1: a record company, He says, what if I send in

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Speaker 1: the tape and they don't like it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What if they say I'm no good? What if they

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Speaker 1: say get out of here, kid, You've got no future.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't think I can take that

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Speaker 1: kind of rejection. But the key here is that is

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Speaker 1: that he says, what if they say I don't have

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Speaker 1: a future? Right, He's talking about history and then he's

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Speaker 1: talking about the future, and then he does underline it, Jesus,

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Speaker 1: I'm starting to sound like my old man. And what

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Speaker 1: does Marty say to Doc when Doc thinks he's about

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Speaker 1: to head out of the mall parking lot, he says,

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Speaker 1: look me up. That tells you that Marty is legitimately

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Speaker 1: worried about how he's going to turn out. We think

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Speaker 1: of Marty McFly, even in my recollection of him, as

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Speaker 1: this ultra confident, heroic, you know, high school figure, and

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Speaker 1: that's how I looked up to him as a kid.

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Speaker 1: But he is He is anxious, he is nervous, he

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Speaker 1: is insecure, and he's afraid he's gonna turn out like

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Speaker 1: his old man. And here's the part that really matters.

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Speaker 1: Then it turns out he does sound just like his

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Speaker 1: old man, because George does say almost the exact same

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Speaker 1: thing when Marty asks him in the cafeteria, I believe

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Speaker 1: what he's writing, and he explains that he's writing those

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Speaker 1: science fiction stories about visitors coming down to Earth, and

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Speaker 1: Marty has to say, I didn't know you ever did

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Speaker 1: anything creative? And is what does he say? When Marty says, well,

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Speaker 1: how come you never let anybody read them? He says,

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Speaker 1: what if they told me I was no good? I

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Speaker 1: guess that would be pretty hard for somebody to understand.

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Speaker 1: And Marty says, A no, not hard at all. Marty

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Speaker 1: assumes and he wants to be nothing like his father.

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Speaker 1: He assumes he's nothing like his father, But it turns

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Speaker 1: out they're both artistically inclined. They're both scared as hell

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Speaker 1: Josh of others hearing or viewing their creative output and

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Speaker 1: rejecting not just their art, but rejecting them because of it.

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Speaker 7: And that no, not hard at all. And the way

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Speaker 7: Michael J.

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Speaker 1: Fox delivers it again something I completely just ignore in

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Speaker 1: the past and now it really kind of hits you hard.

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Speaker 1: And forty years later future back to the future is

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Speaker 1: as fun as ever, but Marty's anxiety and having to

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Speaker 1: confront seeing himself reflected in his father reveals a sneakily

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Speaker 1: resonant story about self doubt and self discovery.

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Speaker 2: I very much appreciated that father son rhyme and this

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Speaker 2: particular psychological element that you're calling out on this watch

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Speaker 2: because initially watching Michael J. Fox's Marty McFly, I didn't

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Speaker 2: buy this cocky kid, right. It just didn't seem innate

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Speaker 2: to the performer, let alone the role. And by initially

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Speaker 2: I mean on our recent rewatch, it was something that

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Speaker 2: surprised me, like you and my memory Marty was the coolest, right,

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Speaker 2: And then I'm watching Michael J. Fox and thinking, you know,

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Speaker 2: this doesn't really seem like him. And we can maybe

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Speaker 2: get into more about the performances later. But that element

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Speaker 2: that you just discussed, his insecurity about sending in his

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Speaker 2: audition tapes and how it is later rhymed with George's

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Speaker 2: insecurity or doubts, I thought solved that for me. It

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Speaker 2: solved the performance a little bit and solved also you know,

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Speaker 2: these two characters often seem so far apart, especially when

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Speaker 2: Marty gets to nineteen fifty five and he's always coaxing Georgeohn.

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Speaker 2: It's like, where did this Marty come from? If he

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Speaker 2: came from this George, But there you just keyed in

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Speaker 2: on the psychological element where they really are father and son.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I appreciated that quite a bit on this

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Speaker 2: rewatch as well. So when I did first see Back

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Speaker 2: to the Future in eighty five, I'm sure we've touched

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Speaker 2: on this over the years on the show. As you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: it was it was like my world. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: was obsessed with Star Wars at the same time as well,

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Speaker 2: but this felt, you know, in it's sci fi, but

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Speaker 2: it's also more reality based, like a little more grown

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Speaker 2: up maybe at that age. Back to the Future, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be Marty McFly. I will credit him

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Speaker 2: or blame him for the hot pink skateboard I had

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Speaker 2: with the you know how the top of the skateboard

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Speaker 2: had the gritty, like the black grit so you could

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Speaker 2: keep your so you wouldn't slip off, right, I'll never

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Speaker 2: forget that, Like the grit was like glistening somehow, it

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Speaker 2: kind of glowed in the santo. Oh yeah, I just

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Speaker 2: I just thought I was the coolest rolling down, you know,

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Speaker 2: in crest with the streets of Crestwood. So yeah, went

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Speaker 2: for this movie hugely. And that being said, haven't revisited

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Speaker 2: many times in recent years. Did a ton as a kid,

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Speaker 2: And what I did remember from those early viewings is

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Speaker 2: something I brought up on the show, which is it

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Speaker 2: was the first time as a kid I realized my

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Speaker 2: parents had lives beyond being my parents, and this was

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Speaker 2: huge for me at that age. You know, we did

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Speaker 2: our top five lessons I learned from the movies, where

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Speaker 2: I listed Back to the Future there and said the

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Speaker 2: lesson was the world existed before me just opened up

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Speaker 2: my own time space continuum. My parents, my grandparents, my teachers,

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Speaker 2: all like, not only in the past, but in the

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Speaker 2: day to day they actually had concerns that didn't involve me.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I was just a particularly narcissistic kid, but I

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Speaker 2: think that's something you have to realize right eventually, and

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Speaker 2: Back to the Future was crucial for that. So I

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Speaker 2: do think that is the movie's philosophical genius, and I

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Speaker 2: do think this is why Back to the Future genuinely

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Speaker 2: needs to be regarded honestly as a work of philosophy.

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Speaker 2: This is about humanity's understanding of ourselves in relation to

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Speaker 2: time and how everything, our relationships, our self identity, which

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Speaker 2: is what you were just touching on a little bit there,

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Speaker 2: our desires, our dreams all defined by time, right, And

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Speaker 2: the reason I respect Back to the future so much

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Speaker 2: is because this is not this quality is not just

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Speaker 2: a side product of like a high concept like what

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Speaker 2: if we send a kid back in fifty five and

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Speaker 2: he ran into his parents, you know, you'd probably still

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Speaker 2: maybe have some of these thoughts. But in Back to

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Speaker 2: the Future, the filmmakers have embedded this existential idea into

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Speaker 2: the movie's conception and also execution. And I want to

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Speaker 2: credit the screenplay here buys the Mechas and Bob Gail,

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Speaker 2: because it continuously balances that adventure slash sci fi element,

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Speaker 2: the one we loved as kids, with this personal slash

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Speaker 2: existential element that we've both already touched on. And here's

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Speaker 2: a clear instance of how they do that. When Marty

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Speaker 2: first arrives in nineteen fifty five, after he gets you know,

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Speaker 2: out of the barn and gets to the town center,

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Speaker 2: he goes to the diner and what happens. He runs

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Speaker 2: right into his father and he sees Beth boeing.

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Speaker 5: Hey, McFly, what do you think you're doing? Hey, I'm

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Speaker 5: talking to you, McFly, You Irish bug? Pah Hey this

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Speaker 5: hey guys.

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Speaker 3: How are you doing?

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Speaker 6: You?

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Speaker 5: Got my homework finished?

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Speaker 4: McFly?

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Speaker 2: And so right away the screenplay gives us an instance

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Speaker 2: where the science fiction immediately becomes personal and all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, this is about more than the possibility or

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Speaker 2: the rules of time travel. It's about what it means

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Speaker 2: to Marty's actual personal life, and I think maybe a

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Speaker 2: BacT to the future. It doesn't always get credit for

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Speaker 2: having this sort of depth I'm talking about. It might

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Speaker 2: be because and here's my other realization, which is the

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Speaker 2: dumbest realization in the world. You already touched on it

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Speaker 2: on this rewatch. This movie is so freaking fun. I mean,

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Speaker 2: philosophy is not supposed to be this much fun, but

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Speaker 2: this movie is a blast. From the pacing, to the imagery,

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Speaker 2: to the performances to the ideas, It's just an incredible

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Speaker 2: thrill ride with a depth that you know, not all

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Speaker 2: the thrill rides of the eighties necessarily gave us.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned that moment when it instantly becomes personal, and

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Speaker 1: the way Zamechas shoots that also so nicely reinforces that.

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Speaker 1: And I don't have the exact breakdown of it, but

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Speaker 1: if you've seen the movie recently, and this was the

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Speaker 1: first rewatch for me, Josh since I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: Now I watched it enough times as a kid too

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Speaker 1: to last a lifetime. Sure, But but I can I

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Speaker 1: can remember how he he reveals the way Marty turns

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Speaker 1: as he almost feels George's presence, right, or or something

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Speaker 1: about that, that moment where Biff walks in and he

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Speaker 1: has to turn. But it's the fact that when he

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Speaker 1: turns to look and then their faces in that moment

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Speaker 1: almost aligne in a way that you realize that that

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Speaker 1: there is a symmetry between them.

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Speaker 2: It's right almost.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say it borders on Bergmann as close

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Speaker 1: to as close to Bergman as the mechas gets. That's

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Speaker 1: there in that shot. You're exactly right, and and I

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Speaker 1: really appreciate that. And I'll give you another a counter

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Speaker 1: to that. That's that's more fun, but a nice bit

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Speaker 1: of visual flare that that is obvious, but I had

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Speaker 1: never paid attention to before. When, of course Doc Brown

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Speaker 1: says we're gonna send you back to the future, what

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Speaker 1: does he do? He says that, and he makes that

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Speaker 1: sweeping gesture, Yeah, breaking the fourth wall, looking right at

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Speaker 1: the audience, looking right at all of us who were

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Speaker 1: there in the there in the future.

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Speaker 2: If we could somehow harness the lightning.

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Speaker 6: Channel it into the Fox capacitor just might work.

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Speaker 4: Next Saturday Night where sending you back to the future.

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Speaker 7: I'll go back.

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Speaker 1: Since you talked about having the skateboard, I was never

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Speaker 1: I was never a skateboard kid.

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Speaker 7: I just couldn't. It seemed like too much work to me.

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Speaker 1: I suppose I wanted something motorized, and so it was

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Speaker 1: something I never got into. Not even Marty McFly could

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Speaker 1: get me interested in skateboarding. For me, it was, of

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Speaker 1: course the music angle and I've I've shared this before,

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Speaker 1: but it's been at least ten years. This wasn't the

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Speaker 1: movie that inspired me to want to pick up a

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Speaker 1: guitar or a bass and be in a band. I

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00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 1: had already seen the Buddy Holly Story fifty times, but

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00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 1: it surely contributed. The year after this movie was released

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Speaker 1: is the year my band got together. The band I

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Speaker 1: still play with like once or twice a year. We

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00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 1: started the year after this movie came out. We practiced

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Speaker 1: for the first time the fall after this movie, So

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Speaker 1: just two or three months, Josh after this movie was released.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this or if your

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00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 1: family ever watched such vulgar fair, but it came on,

359
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 1: but there was a show on in nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how long it lasted. There was an

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Speaker 1: early version of lip Sync Battle, effectively called Oh on

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Speaker 1: the Hits, Putting on the Hits. It was realised. I

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Speaker 1: want to say, I could be wrong. I meant to

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00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: look this up. I want to say that maybe Adrian

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00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 1: Zahmed was the host of it for a while. It

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Speaker 1: competition show like Star Search where people lip sync to

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Speaker 1: songs and they got judged on their lip syncing.

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Speaker 7: The shame down and.

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Speaker 1: It's like October at our grade school, and our classroom

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Speaker 1: decided to have some kind of you know, fall conference

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Speaker 1: with our parents, you know, when we had to put

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Speaker 1: on a show, and we did. We did Putting on

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Speaker 1: the Putting on the Hits, our version of Putting on

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Speaker 1: the Hits, where different groups lip synced, and I got

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Speaker 1: my dad's guitar out. I didn't know how to play it.

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Speaker 1: I found all the clothes I could, including the life preserver.

377
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: I tried to get a vest like Marty, you know,

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00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 1: and I got out there on stage with with on

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Speaker 1: stage in the classroom with some other people and we

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00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: played Johnny be Good and Josh wo the guitar solo.

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00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: When the guitar solo came on, I got down on

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Speaker 1: my knees. I imitated. I did the entire imitation that

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00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: I did, the imitation of Marty imitating Chuck Berry I

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00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 1: did there in the classroom. And then the code of

385
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 1: this story is then later that next summer, there was

386
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Speaker 1: a we had this thing growing up in Grenell called

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00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: Happy Days. They may still do it, you know, very

388
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: Hill Valley. We would get together in the town square

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Speaker 1: and whatever. And there was a stage where they did

390
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Speaker 1: a lip sync contest. I guess that's all we could

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00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 1: do for creativity back then, and there was a prize

392
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Speaker 1: and all this stuff. We did Johnny Be Good, and

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00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: I was doing my guitar thing again, but I think

394
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: I was even doing the singing the singing too, and

395
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Speaker 1: we said, we're doing Johnny Be Good, Josh. They played

396
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Speaker 1: the Chuck Berry version of Johnny Be Good, not the

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00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: movie version. We didn't even think about that. And of

398
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: course you were very different, completely lost, no big back

399
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Speaker 1: to the future, guitar solo, no nothing. It was a disaster.

400
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: Needless to say, we didn't win. So, yes, I was

401
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: you imitated to him as a skateboarder. I imitated him

402
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: as a guitar player, and it set me down the

403
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Speaker 1: path as a musician.

404
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 2: In my case, skateboarder is a strong term, so he

405
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 2: was probably as much of a skateboarder as you were

406
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: a guitarist at that point.

407
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as a lip syncer. I suppose where I'll

408
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: go with this is how about what do you make

409
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: of Michael J. Fox as an actor here? Because of

410
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 1: course at this time, I was very much a family

411
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: ties watcher, and I enjoyed him very much as x P.

412
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: Keaton on that show and famously he replaced Eric Stoltz.

413
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: And I enjoyed Eric Stoltz as an actor in the

414
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: eighties with Lea Thompson in a movie like Some kind

415
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: of Wonderful. And I know he could play now that

416
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Marty McFly character as someone who's

417
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 1: insecure and anxious and actually a little bit of an outsider,

418
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: even though we don't think of Marty that way, you know,

419
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: er Eric Stoltz could play that. But Zamechis has always

420
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: said Eric Stoltz was doing a fine job. There was

421
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: just something that he wasn't bringing to the character that

422
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: didn't feel right, and as soon as is Michael J.

423
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: Fox got in the role, it did feel right. And

424
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Speaker 1: what I don't know if it is that that anxiousness,

425
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: that anxious quality and that little bit of insecurity that

426
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: the character needed. He was twenty three during filming, obviously

427
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 1: way older than the character was. But the casualness, the

428
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: comedic chops that he has. The casualness, for example, when

429
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: when Doc Brown in that opening scene says, oh, you know,

430
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: by the way, be careful with the speakers. They might overload,

431
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: and he says, I'll keep that in mind. The way

432
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: he can casually deliver a zinger like that, The the

433
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: bug guys that he makes when when Lorraine says You're

434
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: beginning to sound just like my mother to him, you know,

435
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: and the physical comedy bits too when he falls over

436
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: putting on his jeans in her bedroom, and even funnier

437
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: when he falls over at the end when his parents

438
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: walk in and he can't believe the sight of them.

439
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: Those are all those, Those are all moments where I

440
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: really appreciated Fox as a performer in this film.

441
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you hit all the right the right examples,

442
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 2: and the key maybe the distinction with Stolts although Stoults

443
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: could do comedy, can do comedy for sure, but yeah,

444
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: casual comedic chops. The way you put it is exactly

445
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: where mind was. My mind was going while while watching

446
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 2: him here. And you know this, I think this does

447
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 2: come for being honed some on a sitcom like Family Ties,

448
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 2: because you need that precise line delivery. But it also

449
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 2: has to come across when when actors are doing their

450
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: best in those scenarios, it is casual, it isn't prescribed.

451
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 2: That's when sitcoms are really bad, right, is when when

452
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: it's just reciting the jokes and Fox is doing so

453
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 2: much more here. As you also said, the physical comedy

454
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: is key. You called out some of those key moments.

455
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: I always like the one in the car scene with Lorraine,

456
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: which we're gonna get back to, but where he's desperately

457
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: trying to avert his eyes from her dress, and then

458
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: there's that hilarious moment where he fails. It's and then

459
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: Fox's face of just like utter bewilderment.

460
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 6: And shame, Marty, Why are you so nervous?

461
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: Rain?

462
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 7: Have you ever.

463
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 4: Been in a situation where you know you had to

464
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 4: act a certain way, but when you got there, you

465
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 4: didn't know if you could go through with it.

466
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 6: Oh you mean like how you're supposed to act on

467
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 6: a first date.

468
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 4: Oh, sort of.

469
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: I think that Fox is really good. I want to

470
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: go back to some other performances too, but quickly before

471
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: we maybe move away from the visual stuff. I want

472
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 2: to go back to the persona shot we talked about

473
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: in the diner. I'm so glad you called that out

474
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: because one other revelation for me about why I really

475
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 2: do revere back to the future so much on a

476
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: filmmaking level, not just this philosophical or even entertainment level,

477
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: is because I think it has something. I'm trying to

478
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 2: think of a way to describe it. Because we talk

479
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: about mes and sen in like fancy movies, right, how

480
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: things are arranged within the frame, And I think, what's mechas,

481
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: what za mechas manages here is something that's more like

482
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 2: pop iconic means and sent and by pop iconic I

483
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: mean particularly the use of the frame, particularly within the

484
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 2: context of an engaging popular narrative, but in a way

485
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: that will then create a lasting image in the popular consciousness.

486
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: And you just you just demonstrated this Adam like even

487
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 2: it wasn't like necessarily the precise description, but that move,

488
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: that moment stuck in your mind, where George is sitting

489
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: at the diner counter looking at the kitchen basically, and

490
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 2: we see him in profile. Marty sits next to him,

491
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: and then Marty recognizes who he is, and we watch

492
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: his recognition because Marty's face shifts to the left of

493
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: the screen past George's profile, and we have Michael J.

494
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 2: Fox great acting here too, just like his mind being

495
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: blown in the way the movie was blowing my mind

496
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: at the time. And Zamechas captures this in that one

497
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: image that has lodged itself in both of our heads quickly.

498
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: A couple other of these pop iconic Mesan sent the

499
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: tire track flames between Marty and Dock's legs when the

500
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 2: DeLorean disappears on the test runt right, just the perfect

501
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: searing image, and we get a reverse shot that complements it,

502
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 2: of the license plate spinning on the ground between them.

503
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: I would include maybe the fading photo in Marty's hand,

504
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: although it's something more of an insert shot, less about

505
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: necessarily the framing but than the effect. And then let

506
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: me give you maybe my favorite one last one here

507
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: we're back to the diner. This time the camera is

508
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: looking out through the diner windows at the town square.

509
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: And this is the big chase scene where Marty makes

510
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: the makeshift skateboard. Biff Yes and his buddies balls.

511
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 7: The skateboard in that moment suggests.

512
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: Skateboard exactly, yeah, hanging on to the back of the

513
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 2: pickup truck, and Zamechis frames the camera here moving alongside

514
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: Marty through the window of the diner, So essentially the

515
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: camera's moving along the diner counter from right to left

516
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: as the truck out the window is doing it. And

517
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: the camera comes to a stop right on the rain space.

518
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,239
Speaker 2: As Marty has left the screen. She turns to the

519
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: frame and says, He's an absolute dream.

520
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: It's an absolute dream.

521
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: I mean, that's yeah, that's cinema magic, the staging. That's

522
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: perfect stage right it is.

523
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: And and I'm so glad you mentioned that moment too,

524
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: because I didn't want us to move on before I

525
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: got a chance to say that. That chase scene too,

526
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: it couldn't be more opposite in terms of its scale

527
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: from something like the Indiana Jones movies we were enjoying

528
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: at the time as well. Think about Raiders the Lost Arc. Sure,

529
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: but watching it again, this time, watching Marty on the

530
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: road being chased by Biff and his thugs on that skateboard,

531
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: with that Alan Silvestri's score, which has little hints, little

532
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: remnants of the Raiders score in it. It to to

533
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: us as kids that age, it actually feels as big

534
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: and as grand and as important as as Raiders of

535
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: the Lost Ark. The stakes of that are as high

536
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: in that chase scene as that's how invested we are

537
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: in market.

538
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: Personal right now. In some ways they're more personal because

539
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: of the Lorraine element exactly.

540
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that that scene, I was really like, wait

541
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: a second, why why do I feel like I'm watching

542
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones in this scene?

543
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 7: This is incredible. I really felt it.

544
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: And Dean Kundy, we should say, since we've been talking

545
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: about a lot of the camera work, the cinematography here

546
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: working with Zamacus, Yeah.

547
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 7: Absolutely.

548
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to bring up the thing that, of

549
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: course I certainly never thought about back in the eighties,

550
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: because I was not processing back in the eighties to

551
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: what extent during that decade, Josh, we truly were actually

552
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: living our parents decade through pop culture. The eighties were

553
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: actually more like the fifties, and we can only look

554
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: back on that and realize it now. Back to the

555
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: Future was part of a wave of films that we're

556
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: doing that we're looking back to the past and our culture,

557
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: our culture politically, it wasn't just our pop culture that

558
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: was doing it. And we're going to talk about Blue

559
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: Moon in a bit. And in that movie, you'll hear

560
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: Lorenz's heart say, and I may not be getting the

561
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: quote exactly right, but he says, there's nothing.

562
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 7: Wrong with Oklahoma other than.

563
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: The fact that it's nostalgic for a time in America

564
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: that never existed. And I thought, wow, every time coincidence

565
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: spotting comes through, because whether it affects how you feel

566
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: about the movie or certainly how you feel about Back

567
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: to the Future as entertainment, I think we at least

568
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: have to talk critically about the fact that Back to

569
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: the Future, like so many eighties movies, appears to be

570
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: nostalgic for a time in America that never existed, which

571
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: is problematic when the dominant political statement of that period

572
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: was make America great again, which it was under Reagan.

573
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 1: And Doc himself says, you know, in that moment, that

574
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: funny moment the actor like he's president. But that was

575
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: the case, like Reagan was all about just trying to

576
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: revert back to the fifties.

577
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 7: Let's let's go back to this.

578
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: Fantasy version of American life, these these apparent glory days

579
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: where we'll overlook things like racism and sexism and economic

580
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: inequality and whatever pollution. We can go on down the

581
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: go on down the line. And it was the juxtaposition

582
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: here again never paid attention to these things really before.

583
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: But the way Hill Valley is depicted in the future, Yeah,

584
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: I mean, let's let's even look at things like, of course,

585
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: the family things, Lorraine drinking vodka at dinner, just straight

586
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: up drinking vodka at dinner, and the fact that the

587
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: family lives in a crap hole of a neighborhood, it seems.

588
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: But the town square itself is pretty dilapidated, right, it

589
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: does not looked like a good graffiti.

590
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 7: All this stuff. And Josh, I don't know if you noticed.

591
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: Did you see what movie is playing on the Marquee

592
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: Porno It's it's orgy American style. There is porn and

593
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: it says triple X, Like apparently Hill Valley is Norman

594
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: rockwell By way of Travis Bickell, you know, like what

595
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: is going on here? And and one of the parts

596
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: in this, in this bad version of Hill Valley, which

597
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: is the present version, Goldie Wilson is the mayor. Goldie

598
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: Wilson's the mayor, and and he's he's because he's supposed

599
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: to be re elected. So apparently even though in the

600
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: past it's like a triumphant thing that Goldie's going to

601
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: be mayor, he's apparently not doing a very good job

602
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: because Hill Valley seems to kind of suck. And when

603
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: he goes when he goes back to the past, what's

604
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: the past? The past is indeed, as the slogan of

605
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: Hill Valley says, a nice place to live. It's idyllic

606
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: with with Ronald Reagan up on the screen and Barbara

607
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: Stanwick on the marquee and mister Sandman is playing, and

608
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: there's green grass and there's blue skies, and you know,

609
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: if the the other the the other part to this,

610
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 1: of course, that that if you really want to extend

611
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: this line of line of thinking, if you were one

612
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: of those people that ever made a joke about seb

613
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: and La La Land being really really into jazz for

614
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: whatever reason that that was something you made a joke about.

615
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: You have to be just apoplectic about the suggestion that

616
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: Marty invented rock and roll right.

617
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 7: In this film.

618
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: Rough.

619
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, and it does just to just to conclude this,

620
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: the movie does what a lot of movies of this

621
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: period and even movies from now do that go back

622
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: and look at historical moments from the past and extend

623
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: this kind of fantasy version is there. There are examples

624
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: of chauvinism, there are examples of racism, but what they

625
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: do is they encapsulated all in obviously evil characters like

626
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: Biff and his thugs. So it makes it seem like

627
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: it's easy to overcome. We know who the easily identifiable

628
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: evil people are, so we can all as viewers go,

629
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: oh okay, well we feel superior to them. And it

630
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: really wasn't about any larger systemic things. It was just

631
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: a few bad apples.

632
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's the what you're describing is it

633
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: makes it feel like the movie is gesturing towards those concerns, right, yes,

634
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: and maybe not fully invested in them or taking them seriously.

635
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: I had similar thoughts watching it, And Yeah, the Mayor

636
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 2: Goldie thing was kind of a real red flag. Goldie

637
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: played by Donald fully Love, who we meet in ninety

638
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 2: fifty five, says I'm going to be the first black mayor,

639
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: right when he's working at the diner, and yeah, what

640
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 2: does that mean that they represent? As you said, his

641
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: mayoral stretch is coinciding with this dilapidated version of the

642
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: town that's not great. I do think that while it's

643
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 2: not thoughtfully and fully considered, the inclusion of things like

644
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: racism or chauvinism, or even the fact that rape, you know,

645
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 2: was a real thing in nineteen fifty five, I think

646
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 2: that does puncture the make Americ Great Again sensibility that

647
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 2: is partly at the heart of back to the future.

648
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: I think overall that's a correct reading that it's looking

649
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: back to the past as so much as the eighties

650
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: did in a way that yes, never existed, but in

651
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: our minds, in some people's minds does. I was glad

652
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 2: to see that it was at least complicated by the

653
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: fact that, you know, Lorraine is really almost physically assaulted,

654
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: and that this was something that women had to deal with.

655
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: Then it wasn't just you know, everyone courting peacefully and

656
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: marrying and having babies, and so I think there's a

657
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 2: little complicating of it, but over overall it is something

658
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: that held me back on this rewatch. I think the

659
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: Johnny Be Good thing is just terrible. I mean, to me,

660
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 2: that's the black eye of Back to the Future, because

661
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 2: at first, I'm trying to give this movie as much

662
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: credit as I could, and I'm thinking, Okay, maybe this

663
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 2: is so glaring what's happening here, especially to our eyes

664
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five. Is it possible that even in

665
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 2: eighty five they were thinking of this as as a

666
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: bit of meta commentary on white appropriation, Like could the

667
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 2: people involved have been smart enough to say, we're gonna

668
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: make this so ridiculous by the performance that already gives

669
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: doing the Johnny Be Good song, that we're kind of

670
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: winking at how ridiculous it is. But when they use

671
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: the punchline of Marvin Barry, who's the leader of the band,

672
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: calling his cousin Chuck and holding the phone out, that's

673
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 2: when I was like, Okay, no, they just think this

674
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: is funny and it's not great, not a great choice.

675
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and no, I take your point. But again,

676
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: just to make sure I'm clear, I think the issue

677
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: for me is that throwing a nod to sexism by

678
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 1: depicting a scene like that, by doing it through Biff

679
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: and making it seem like it's a one off. It's

680
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: a one off through an obviously despicable, almost cartoonishly despicable character,

681
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: while otherwise not depicting any kind of inequality between men

682
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: and women. Otherwise, it makes it seem like nineteen fifty

683
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: five was perfect other than one bad guy, you know,

684
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: And that was the problem is depicting that past as

685
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: if it was, as if there was truly this perfect

686
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: time in America, which of course, and that we need

687
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: to revert back to it, back to the future. They

688
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 1: fill gesture. It fulfilled that vision. Unfortunately that so many

689
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: films of the of the eighties ultimately did it fit

690
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: right into that scheme. I was certainly aware of that

691
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: as I watched the film this time. The effects in

692
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: the film not something that certainly derailed the movie for me.

693
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: I remember watching it early on and thinking, how did

694
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: they pull off the moment where where Marty gets blown

695
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: back by the speaker as practically as they did. However

696
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: they pull that off is so effective. And then you

697
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: mentioned the iconography of the flames. Though that's a fairly

698
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: bad optical effect looking back on it now, right when

699
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: the when the fire goes under their legs, you.

700
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 2: Can tell you there are some shots where they're actual flames,

701
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 2: and then you can tell there are others where they've

702
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: they've had to Yeah, gussie it up.

703
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, though you know it is. This is one of

704
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: those things. Not I'm really not trying to go back

705
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: to the previous point. It's more just how sometimes movies

706
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: from the eighties, when we look back on them now,

707
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: things that we just take for granted, things that never

708
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: occurred to us then seem kind of insane to us now.

709
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: Back in nineteen fifty five, make no bones about it,

710
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: Biff tried to rape Lorraine in a car in the

711
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: parking lot of a high school.

712
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

713
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: The Okay, but listen, and in the future, he's hanging

714
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: around the house, you know, like he's in a subservient

715
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: role to George, but he's still just hanging around the house.

716
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to marry either. I think I'd rather

717
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: just be done with Beth.

718
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: It just is so crazy that that that that occurred,

719
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: and we're just like, yeah, now we're all just laughing

720
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: about the fact that he's wax in the car.

721
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 2: So let's let's talk some more about Lorraine, because I

722
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 2: do wanna You know, this is a performance I've I've

723
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: hailed on the show. I think top five mother son

724
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 2: relationship movies I had at number one, and just endlessly

725
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 2: amused at how Leah Thompson is so brazen in this

726
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: worle just how instantly aggressively horny she makes Lorraine when

727
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 2: Marty's in her bedroom and look in words and gestures,

728
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: do you mind if I sit here? And you know,

729
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 2: again going back to this mind blowing concept, Uh, it's

730
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: not just you know, the possibly that maybe your mom

731
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 2: was a sexually active teen, right, maybe she was one

732
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 2: of the most sexually active teams. This is this is

733
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 2: what the Thompson performance digs into. And it's also a

734
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 2: very like Michael J. Fox, very physically comic performance when

735
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 2: she's he's already show up at school, how she throws

736
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 2: herself back against her locker and the whole I went

737
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 2: on at length in our Top five Scenes in Cars

738
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 2: about the sequence with Lorraine and Marty at the dance

739
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 2: in the car. It was my number one pick and

740
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: Thompson here just transitioning from comedy to tenderness. That expression

741
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,959
Speaker 2: on her face when she realizes the kiss doesn't quite

742
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: feel right. I mean, this is just again one of

743
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: those gems of I think every main performance in this

744
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: movie is a gem, and this one is still my favorite.

745
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 6: I think I know exactly what you mean. You do

746
00:42:36,800 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 6: know what I do in those situations. What I don't worry.

747
00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 7: This is all wrong.

748
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 6: I don't know what it is. But when I kiss you,

749
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 6: it's like I'm kissing my brother. I guess it doesn't

750
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:11,919
Speaker 6: make any sense.

751
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 4: Doesn't believe me, it makes perfect sense.

752
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: It may not be quite as strong because of the

753
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: artistic element and that being so crucial to Marty and

754
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 1: that male bond, I think ends up being a little

755
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: bit more important. He spends more time with George, But

756
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: there has to be a symmetry, right, He has to

757
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 1: discover something. He has to see something in his mother,

758
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: to your point about recognizing that she's a person too,

759
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: that she has someone before she was his mother, and

760
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: that she was someone contrary to his vision.

761
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 7: Of her early in the film.

762
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: Early in the film, she's the one talking about how

763
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: you have to behave a certain way you have to

764
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: be a prude essentially with boys, and then come to

765
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: find out she's exactly the opposite of that.

766
00:43:59,440 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: Right.

767
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: So the fact that we get that that depth, and

768
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: we get that additional layer and that symmetry with the

769
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: with the characters is a really nice touch with the

770
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: screenplay and and just in terms of fun moments to

771
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: satisfying screenplay and and visual payoffs. The of course, the punch,

772
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: the McFly punch of the Yeah, the way the camera

773
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: just lingers on the two of them as she takes

774
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: him in and that moment is extremely satisfying.

775
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a nice touch just to quickly touch

776
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: on the other performances. Christopher Lloyd here what I appreciated

777
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: this time just how he plays Doc's excitement and mania

778
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 2: first and the comedy of the moment second. You know,

779
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: you could you can think so many actors who would

780
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 2: just go for the jokes, because almost everything Doc says

781
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 2: is funny. I love to Thank God I've still got

782
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 2: my hair. His reaction to see the video from nineteen

783
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: eighty five. I don't know if anyone else in the

784
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 2: world would want that hair, but he's happy he still

785
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: has it. But yeah, overall, Doc is playing the character

786
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 2: first and the comedy second, and then Crispin Glover just

787
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: a living, breathing, apologetic shrug, just incredible.

788
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: Ye had a real person too, Yes, Yes, both both

789
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: wonderful performances. And my wife was watching it with me,

790
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: and Sarah said, and I've heard a little bit of

791
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: this over the years, but she said she just saw

792
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: something recently about Crispin Glover saying that he kind of

793
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: renounces this performance or something. I don't know if you've

794
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: seen that, which I don't know, not that it matters,

795
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: but what a shame if that's true, because he is.

796
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: It would be so good. He's so good in this role.

797
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: Anything you want to add or have we done the talk?

798
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: I feel like we did it justice. Yeah, it was

799
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: a really it was a more fun revisit than I

800
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 2: even could have imagined. I think that fun element is

801
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: what popped out at me, perhaps because I've been taking

802
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: it too seriously in recent years, that it was. It

803
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 2: was good to just sit with it as a movie ride.

804
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: Sure, and for me a little bit of the opposite

805
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: still had the fun. Got to take it a little

806
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: bit more seriously than I ever had before. Back to

807
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: the Future is back in theaters this weekend. Take it

808
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: in on the big screen if you can, including some

809
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: IMAX screens. It's also available VOD on most platforms. I'm

810
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: sure you've got a beta max copy somewhere VHS LaserDisc.

811
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: Maybe if you've seen it and agree or disagree with

812
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: our takes, we would love to hear from you feedback

813
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: at filmspotting dot net and we may share some of

814
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: that feedback on a future show. We're talking about, seeing

815
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: Back to the Future back on the big screen. You

816
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: can see it in Imax. You can see it in

817
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: four DX at Regal Cinema right now, coming soon at Regal.

818
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Speaker 1: Die My Love the new one from Lynn Ramsey Christy.

819
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 1: I'll talk about that a little bit next week, starring

820
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: Sydney Sweeney. One we're probably not going to review, but

821
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: would be good to see on the big screen. Predator

822
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: bad Lands, You've got Nuremberg coming very soon. And hey,

823
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849
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853
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00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 2: If you are on letterbox and you'd like to follow Andy,

865
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 2: you can find him ab u ka t Y.

866
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 7: Andy is basically our boss. That's what that means.

867
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: That's kind of how it works when you're at the

868
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: advisory board level.

869
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:48,919
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's right.

870
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: Andy writes that he found the show during the Pandemic

871
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: via an Apple podcast recommendation based on other movie podcasts

872
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: I was listening to at the time. There was no

873
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: specific episode that kept me listening. It just quickly became

874
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: apparent that this was the perfect movie podcast for me,

875
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: based on the hosts rapport and sensibilities, obviously thoughtful preparation

876
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: for every episode, how sadly rare, Andy says, and the

877
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: balance of insightful and fun segments.

878
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 7: Well, thank you. Andy.

879
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: Realizing there was an archive that went back to two

880
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: thousand and six was like revisiting Christmas Morning as a

881
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: six year old. I've been gradually going back year by year,

882
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 1: and I'm currently on twenty eleven.

883
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 7: A favorite review Yeah.

884
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 1: Only it's gonna go downhill quick, Andy, I mean it's

885
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: gonna get rocky. Josh is joining soon. Favorite Reviewer segment.

886
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: Two of my all time favorite directors now are Agnes

887
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: Varda and Luis Bounouel.

888
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 7: How about that.

889
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen a single film of either of theirs

890
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: until I followed along with and went way beyond your

891
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: wonderful marathons.

892
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 7: That's what it's all about, Josha.

893
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 2: I love hearing that.

894
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: Well, we don't love hearing this a review we got

895
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: wrong m Night Shyamalan's Trap.

896
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 7: Sam knows.

897
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: Sam's traparatingly Yeah, yeah, what was it for? Did he

898
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: go four on Trap? Four stars?

899
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 7: Yeah?

900
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 2: See, this is one of the great things about having

901
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: the three of us involved. No matter how insane your

902
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: movie opinion, there's a chance one of us might.

903
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 7: Share it is crazier.

904
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Letterbox top four almost famous, my wife's and my

905
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: all time favorite comfort movie. Something we share with each

906
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: other when we're being uncool. Here here Moonlight, le bon Air,

907
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: there's Varda, and yes, how about this National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

908
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: Andy provided wonderful recommendations or insights into these picks, but

909
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: we're a little strapped for time.

910
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 7: Sorry. Andy.

911
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: A favorite movie he revisited recently. You'll appreciate this, Josh

912
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 1: Rear Window, still a five star classic, always in forever, right,

913
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: all right. A random filmmaker he loves Selene Siama, great choice.

914
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: A movie he credits with becoming a cinophile is Jane

915
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 1: Campion's The Piano Man. Some of my favorites there and

916
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: just slugging him, just hitting him out of the park.

917
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: A book about movies or movie making Inside Oscar by

918
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: Mason Wiley and Damian Bona. You know when you pour

919
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 1: through a one thousand plus page tome on the history

920
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,359
Speaker 1: of the Academy Awards, despite having other pressing obligations, there's

921
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: probably something wrong with you, and you've confirmed a passion unashamably,

922
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: unashamedly enjoyed this history lesson. We thank Andy for being

923
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 1: an advisory board member, a longtime listener, and for going

924
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: back through the archive. In addition to keeping us doing

925
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: what we're doing, your support does come with perks. You

926
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 1: get to listen early in ed Free, you get Sam's

927
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,959
Speaker 1: weekly newsletter, you get to be part of the Film

928
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: Spotting Family Discord, and other exclusive opportunities like you get

929
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: to listen to monthly bonus shows that Discord is hopping

930
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: with over four hundred Film Spotting Family members, and the

931
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: October Bonus Show. It's going to drop very soon. In fact,

932
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: by the time some people hear this show, they may

933
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: already have that October Bonus in their feeds. As we're

934
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: recording this, Josh, we have just finished taping the Tom

935
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: Cruise Draft with Film Spotting Family members. Zach Cook, how

936
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 1: do you think it went well?

937
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 2: I mean, Zach gave me a lot of trouble Zach

938
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 2: kind of did. I came in with a plan that

939
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,760
Speaker 2: I thought was gonna work perfectly, and then Zach appeared.

940
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you inflicted great pain on me. You took

941
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 1: it out on me.

942
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 2: I didser elsewhere.

943
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I have to be mad at Zach.

944
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 1: I think for that it was great fun and you

945
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,439
Speaker 1: will find it in your feed very soon.

946
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 7: Learn more.

947
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: Film spotting Family dot Com.

948
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 4: A big smile.

949
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 2: We write together for a quarter a century, and the

950
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 2: first show.

951
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 7: He writes with someone else is gonna be the biggest

952
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 7: hit he ever had.

953
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 2: Am I bitterer already? Yes?

954
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: One new Richard link Later movie is great news too.

955
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: I think is even better. Nouvelle Vague his new film

956
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 1: about the making of Gadar's Breathless that comes to Netflix

957
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:53,720
Speaker 1: Josh on November fourteenth in theaters now sadly mostly empty ones,

958
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: it seems, is Blue Moon, his ninth collaboration with Ethan Hawk.

959
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: Hawk plays songwriter lyricists Lorenz Hart, who with Richard Rodgers

960
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: wrote some of the greatest songs of the twentieth century.

961
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: The Lady is a Tramp, My Funny, Valentine Bewitch, Bothered,

962
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: and bewildered hundreds more, including the song that gives the

963
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: movie its title. The film's setting is March thirty first,

964
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: nineteen forty three, at the famous Broadway restaurant Sardine's. It's

965
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: opening night of Oklahoma exclamation point, as his character is

966
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: always eager to add on. It's Richard Rodgers' first collaboration

967
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: with someone other than hearrt, and yes, goes on to

968
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: be a massive success, the likes of which Rogers and

969
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: Heart never had. Rogers is played by the Great Andrew Scott.

970
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 1: Margaret Qually is the Yale co ed that the bisexual,

971
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 1: forty seven year old alcoholic Heart is obsessed with Josh.

972
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: It's a link later, It's It's hak monologuing about language

973
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: and theater and love. It's a movie about a self

974
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: destructive artist. If there was ever an Adam movie, this

975
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:03,760
Speaker 1: would seem to be it. It checks all the boxes.

976
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you go first. What did you think

977
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:07,439
Speaker 1: of Blue Moon?

978
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it's pretty self evident. Who's going to

979
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 2: really really go for this one? And I did like

980
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 2: it and who might not quite as much. I think

981
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 2: the litmus test if you're looking for one, if you're

982
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 2: unsure where you are. How you felt about Ethan Hawks

983
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 2: Jesse in Before Sunrise. You know, this charming, this philosophizing

984
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 2: but desperately needy character, I think is maybe a good

985
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 2: bar for how you'll feel about hanging out with Hawks

986
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 2: Lorenz Heart. I mean they're miles apart in so many ways.

987
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 2: Hawks really ladled with some pretty grotesque I think makeup

988
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 2: and hair work here, so he doesn't look anything like himself,

989
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: but there is this strong spiritual resemblance that just hit

990
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 2: me as soon as Heart kind of walked into this bar,

991
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 2: sat down and started monologuing, launching into these self serving

992
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: stories and does some Casablanca impressions. It's sort of imagine

993
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 2: Jesse if he grew up older but hadn't been challenged

994
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 2: by Julie Delpy's Selene is how I thought about it.

995
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: And so if that's you know, if you want to

996
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 2: see that sort of character, he's given full rain here.

997
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 2: This is almost literally a one man show, and then

998
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 2: you'll probably enjoy it. And I definitely did appreciate Hawk's performance.

999
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't get around the level of like

1000
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 2: technical proficiency he's displayed by becoming this character and juggling

1001
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 2: all of the dialogue and the impressions, as I said,

1002
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 2: and the singing, and you know, you can't help but

1003
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 2: be impressed by that. Now there's another guy we didn't

1004
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 2: mention there in the setup who's in this bar, kind

1005
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 2: of tucked in the corner, trying not to be seen,

1006
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: and it's EB White and E B White. You know,

1007
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 2: I know a little bit more about EB White than

1008
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 2: I do the musical theater background that the movie also

1009
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: swims in, so maybe this is why I was drawn

1010
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 2: to him. But I was also drawn to being not

1011
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,280
Speaker 2: the Heart who comes into the bar and regales everyone,

1012
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: but the guy in the corner who's like, oh gosh,

1013
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 2: I hope this guy doesn't look my way. And that's

1014
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: what happens, and then Heart kind of comes in and

1015
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 2: barges in on EB White space EB White, editor you

1016
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 2: know of the Elements of Style, and also author of

1017
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 2: Charlotte's Webb and Stuart Little, so I kind of fell

1018
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 2: to ad him watching this a little bit like EB

1019
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 2: White hiding in the corner hoping Heart would move on.

1020
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 2: White comes around and is very polite and inspired me

1021
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: to do the same and open my heart to this

1022
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 2: this movie and this Hawk performance which I think helped

1023
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 2: me appreciate it as much as I did, even though

1024
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to say I'm fairly confident, not quite as

1025
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: much as you did.

1026
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is one I want to put away for later.

1027
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say too much because it's going

1028
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: to come up again. We're already in the end of

1029
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: your swing and it's definitely going to come up again.

1030
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: I do love this film, and I like I like

1031
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: the metaphor you're going with seeing yourself as Eb White,

1032
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: though I think you're being maybe a little bit disingenuous

1033
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: is the wrong word, But I think you're maybe being

1034
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: a little hard on on Heart or or misreading it

1035
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: a little bit in that in that E. B. White

1036
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: is in the corner, but he didn't put himself in

1037
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: the corner. He starts in the corner. That's where he

1038
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: is when Heart walks in, and that's that's.

1039
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 2: The seat someone like that character would pick. That's what

1040
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 2: I'm resonating with.

1041
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: Yes, I get that, And and you do think maybe

1042
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: he's going to be a little bit resistant to a

1043
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: character like Heart because he seems very bookish, and he

1044
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: seems very private, and he seems like maybe he just

1045
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: really wants to to have his time. But there there

1046
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: conversations together. They clearly are kindred spirits, and their their

1047
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: and there, and they're their appreciation for for language and

1048
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: and for life. They share something there in those scenes

1049
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: that I guess all I want to at least say

1050
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 1: to the audience listening if they haven't seen this movie yet,

1051
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: is what I never sensed. And you aren't necessarily saying this, Josh,

1052
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 1: but I just at least want to get out there.

1053
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: What I never sensed from the White character was any exasperation,

1054
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 1: and I thought that might come through.

1055
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, I didn't feel it.

1056
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree. And Patrick Kennedy, if I haven't said

1057
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 2: this yet, plays White so good, and it's such a

1058
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 2: wonderful performance. Because of that, I think there's a note

1059
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 2: there at the beginning where you can tell, at least

1060
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 2: this was my impression, he would have possibly been very

1061
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 2: happy if Hart had just left and not noticed him. Right,

1062
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 2: So once they do engage, he does open up and

1063
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:48,959
Speaker 2: they do make those connections you're talking about. I also think,

1064
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 2: you know, in the performances defense in terms of Hawk

1065
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 2: and the movie too, is that very self aware of

1066
00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: all of this, that it is this somewhat over bearing presence,

1067
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 2: right and that and and Before Sunrise had that self

1068
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 2: awareness as well about Jessica. So I think that's to

1069
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 2: both movies credit, is that they recognize this quality in

1070
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 2: the character. This isn't something they're not they're not aware of.

1071
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 2: One more last white thing is I am a little

1072
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 2: insulted that they imply in that conversation that Heart's sort

1073
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 2: of drunken story about a mouse in his apartment is

1074
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 2: what inspired Stuart Little. I mean, come on, you know

1075
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 2: you didn't need to go that far.

1076
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,479
Speaker 1: This this bothered Sam too. He hated it, though only

1077
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 1: because it's so bad. He thinks it's cutesy. Indeed, and

1078
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: I like it. It just it it means nothing to me.

1079
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: It just I don't see the reason to be offended

1080
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: by it, I guess is my is my issue with it.

1081
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: But because the whole movie is such an invention, It's

1082
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: such an artificial Every aspect of it is an artificial invention.

1083
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: So and I actually like the I like the story

1084
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: he tells the leads to that, And I also like

1085
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: the idea. I love the idea of way it shows

1086
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: how art for both of those artists, for all artists,

1087
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: is such a such a bit of thievery. It's always

1088
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: about not stealing from other artists, but from stealing from life,

1089
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: stealing from every interaction that you have. It's a representation

1090
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: of that. So I didn't mind it.

1091
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 2: But it's not as bad as Marty McFly stealing Johnny

1092
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: be good, it'll say.

1093
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: But but yes, thank you and your note about Patrick Kennedy.

1094
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: I watching the film. This was when I watched at home,

1095
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: and after about three minutes, I really did. I paused

1096
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: the movie Josh and and I had to look up

1097
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: who he was because I didn't recognize him, but he

1098
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: also seemed familiar, and I was just kind of stunned

1099
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: by his presence. And I wouldn't have minded, honestly. And

1100
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: there's a vibe to this movie anyway that reminds me

1101
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 1: of this movie I'm about to mention. And I wouldn't

1102
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: have minded this entire movie actually, as much as I

1103
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 1: loved it as is if this was just my dinner

1104
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 1: with Andre, but it was White and Laurence heart Like,

1105
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,439
Speaker 1: it could have been just their conversations the entire time,

1106
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: and I would have been fine with Hawk and Patrick Kennedy.

1107
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: So yes, going back to where This started a link

1108
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: Later film starring Hawk about an exceptionally talented musical artist,

1109
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 1: mostly talking about art. Of course, I loved it, and

1110
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: not just a talented musical artist though talking about art,

1111
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: but one of the great American writers, almost entirely talking

1112
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: about language, celebrating language with every sentence, every phrase, every word.

1113
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: And I think that's a testament to Robert Caplo's screenplay,

1114
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: of course, and it's a testament to Hawk. Blue Moon

1115
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: is a lyrical showcase for Hawk, whose performance is confrontational

1116
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: yet tender and self effacing, as you said, self aware.

1117
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: You talked about his technical proficiency. He is so agile

1118
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: with those words.

1119
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 7: And he has to be.

1120
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1121
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: I saw a quick video I'll mention online where Hawk

1122
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 1: was doing something we're doing a post screening Q and

1123
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: A I think, or maybe it was a junket, and

1124
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: he was recounting a story where it was like the

1125
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: Friday night, the weekend before they were going to start shooting.

1126
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: And this is a movie that apparently link Later has

1127
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: had in the works for ten years or something. They've

1128
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: been talking about making this for a while, and here

1129
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: they are finally about to make it, and it's the

1130
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 1: Friday night before and some of the other actors say

1131
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: something to Hawk like, Hey, we're going to head off

1132
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: to Dublin and see this concert somebody's playing. We're gonna

1133
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 1: go see this concert. You want to go? And Hawk's like, yeah,

1134
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 1: that sounds like fun. Let's yeah, let's do it. I'm

1135
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: in and link Later is in earshot and he hears this,

1136
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: and he goes over to Hawk and he says, you know,

1137
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:49,959
Speaker 1: we start filming on Monday, and this movie is only

1138
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 1: going to be as good as you are in it,

1139
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 1: and you sure you really want to do that?

1140
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 7: And Hawk's like.

1141
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, I'm I guess I'm not. I'm not

1142
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: gonna go, you know. And the point there, of course,

1143
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: is that he's right. Link Later is right, that's the

1144
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: best bit of direction he probably gave him on the film.

1145
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 1: This movie is only going to be as good as

1146
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 1: Hawk is in it. And we both agree he's he's

1147
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: pretty wonderful in the film, and and that's a big

1148
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: reason why I think it's it's really great, and I

1149
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: think there's there's something he's doing that makes it great.

1150
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: But I also think there's something that's attributable to link Later.

1151
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 2: Two.

1152
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 1: The staging of it for its confinement, taking place entirely

1153
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: within Sardi's link. Later uses every part of that Sardis

1154
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: Bar like a stage, and he does offer multiple characters,

1155
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 1: not just white for Heart to bounce off with his ideas,

1156
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: but also also physically too literally bounce off them. There's

1157
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: Bobby Connavali behind the bar, is Eddie. There's Jonah Liss

1158
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: as Mordy Rifkin behind the piano. There's Kennedy, of course,

1159
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: there's there's him, you know, nestled as you said, in

1160
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 1: the corner. There's the people who stroll in throughout right,

1161
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 1: like the person who comes through with the flowers a

1162
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: couple of times.

1163
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 2: Right.

1164
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: It does give it all a little bit of musicality,

1165
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 1: like it like it should, like feels appropriate for someone

1166
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: who has made their living writing writing lyrics for musicals

1167
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 1: that those new characters that stroll in, it feels like

1168
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 1: they're strolling in from off the stage all of a

1169
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: sudden for him to add just a new dynamic. It

1170
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: shifts the dynamic of the performance and it feels like

1171
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 1: a performance, and it changes it from a solo performance

1172
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: as it feels at times, into these little duets that

1173
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: happen as he shifts his focus to the different people

1174
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 1: around the room.

1175
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 9: If I always thought that your interests were more towards

1176
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 9: my interests, so now you're going to analyze me, Thank you,

1177
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 9: doctor Bacardi.

1178
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 1: I think Jesse is a good comp I think Heart

1179
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: does something even better than Jesse here, and he has

1180
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: to do it because even though he's got these different

1181
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 1: people to bounce off, he doesn't have someone like Selene,

1182
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: the force of Selene and Julie Delpy, who's at least

1183
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: an equal to bounce off of. Right, what Hawk does

1184
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: here so generously, Josh, I think is listen. And that's notable.

1185
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: That's notable when you consider how much of the run

1186
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: time of this film is Hawk's character talking. If you

1187
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: looked at the script, what do you think it is?

1188
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 1: Maybe ninety five percent, at least ninety percent. He is pontifical.

1189
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:41,919
Speaker 1: He is certainly didactic, but unlike most characters or most

1190
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: people you meet in real life who are that way,

1191
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: when he isn't talking, and I think this is what

1192
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: White latches onto. He never appears to be mindlessly waiting

1193
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: to jump in and say the next thing. He never

1194
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 1: seems to be just waiting to get to the next

1195
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: urgent thing he has to say. He is laser focused,

1196
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: and that focus guides our focus as viewers. He makes

1197
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: that other person feel as important as he is. He

1198
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 1: is a genuine observer of human behavior. I never felt

1199
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: that he was a steamrolling blowhard. He moves through the

1200
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: space that way, he doesn't talk to people that way,

1201
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: and that soloist aspect. But then, as I said, turning

1202
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 1: these into duets, and the way he seems to be

1203
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 1: as comfortable, if not more comfortable when others are talking

1204
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: despite his dominance of screen time as he actually is

1205
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 1: the one speaking. That's the thing I was always drawn to.

1206
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 1: I loved watching him watch others and listen to others.

1207
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 2: I do have to say that was the part of

1208
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 2: the performance that did hold me back, and I realized

1209
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 2: it because I think what you're describing for me, what

1210
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 2: you recognize in some of those earlier interactions, and I

1211
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 2: do think it's there a bit in the eb White scenes.

1212
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 2: For me. I saw it come to full fruition and

1213
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 2: work really well with Margaret Qually where he becomes that

1214
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 2: fully invested listener. Now, for the reasons are complicated why

1215
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 2: he's a listener and why she's getting that attention. But

1216
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 2: when I saw those scenes later in the film between

1217
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 2: the two of them, I realized, for me at least, like, Okay,

1218
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 2: this is what was missing a little earlier is I

1219
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 2: did feel like most of the other characters were like

1220
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 2: a ping pong tables for him a little bit. I

1221
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 2: felt that a little bit more obviously than you.

1222
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, because for me, the ping pongy aspect of it

1223
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 1: is only in the vibrancy of their ideas. But if

1224
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: he's not listening, you don't get the vibrancy of their

1225
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:51,640
Speaker 1: ideas because the language is so potent. He has to

1226
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: be listening to the words, to the words they're using,

1227
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 1: the phrasing, the sharpness of their ideas is so important

1228
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:00,639
Speaker 1: that if he's just if he's the only one talking,

1229
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 1: then then there is no there is nothing to bounce

1230
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: off of. And that's what he'll take. That's what was

1231
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:06,679
Speaker 1: so important.

1232
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, he'll take like a phrase they use or a

1233
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 2: comment they make and and riff off it in some way.

1234
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 2: And I think that's and for me, that was the

1235
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 2: technical proficiency level that I did appreciate.

1236
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 1: I will also just add that I made a comment

1237
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,719
Speaker 1: about Andrew Scott maybe being our pound for pound greatest

1238
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:26,759
Speaker 1: actor right now between stage and screen. Well, he he's

1239
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: really good here. He seeds nothing as Richard Rodgers to

1240
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 1: this powerhouse performer and Ethan Hawk, but also the character

1241
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: Lawrence Hart. And the thing about Rogers is that he's

1242
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 1: on top of the world here. He's the He's the

1243
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 1: big dog in this moment right with all of this

1244
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 1: success and Heart has to be by nature of where

1245
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 1: he is at at this moment in his life and

1246
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 1: career has to be the obsequious one. And yet while

1247
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: you still get that power dynamic with Rogers through Scott's performance.

1248
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: The thing that Scott always shows is that undercurrent of pain,

1249
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 1: you see that there is a wound. There's a wound

1250
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 1: in him. This fracture in their partnership genuinely hurts him.

1251
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 1: That there is a scar that has been left by

1252
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: Heart in him.

1253
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the squirming way that reveals itself the particularities

1254
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 2: of this night right where Heart is in the bar

1255
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 2: and their next door celebrating in the restaurant, you know,

1256
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 2: and then you can see in Scott's squirming performance the

1257
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 2: pain that that's causing him, that those deeper psychological things

1258
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:39,799
Speaker 2: you're talking about are coming all bubbling to the surface

1259
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 2: right in this moment. Yeah, he's very good here.

1260
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: Blue Moon, currently playing in limited release, sounds like you're

1261
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:51,640
Speaker 1: you're recommending it. I'm strongly recommending it.

1262
01:10:53,560 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 3: Lessen and dream Ellsitch nobody but Bruce can tell stories

1263
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 3: like these Elwhere, but.

1264
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 2: I don't understand why n ours would make this record

1265
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 2: while and he's channeling something deeply personal. And The Bruce

1266
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 2: Springsteen biopic Springsteen Delivered Me from Nowhere came to theaters

1267
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 2: last weekend. It's directed by Scott Cooper, he of Crazy Heart,

1268
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,080
Speaker 2: The Pale Blue Eye, and Out of the Furnace. This

1269
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 2: stars Jeremy Allen White as Springsteen circa the making of

1270
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 2: his stripped down nineteen eighty two album Nebraska. Now, Adam,

1271
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 2: I want to get your Springsteen bona fides here. I

1272
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:47,640
Speaker 2: Mine will be brief. He kind of falls in that

1273
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:51,800
Speaker 2: category which I'm guessing this will horrify you of Back

1274
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 2: when we used to listen to the radio Springsteen song

1275
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:57,520
Speaker 2: came on. I was glad it came on. Sure I

1276
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 2: never bought an album, didn't make that next step. You

1277
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 2: know well and maybe know him best. The biggest Springsteen

1278
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,559
Speaker 2: fan I know, I think is my pastor, Roger Nelson.

1279
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 2: So I have heard many sermons involving the lyrics of

1280
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 2: Bruce Springsteen, which I've also appreciated his craft through that avenue.

1281
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 2: But yeah, not the hugest intense fan of his music.

1282
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:22,120
Speaker 2: Beyond that, I'm guessing you've spent more time with this work.

1283
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 1: I don't know that I have, or at least too

1284
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: much more. I think I was like you back in

1285
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:31,719
Speaker 1: the eighties. Born in the USA was a juggernaut album.

1286
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: It was everywhere, and that song is infectious. And of course,

1287
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,719
Speaker 1: as I got a little older and I started thinking

1288
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: about songs a little bit more intently and intellectually, I

1289
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: realized that there was some real depth to that song

1290
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 1: in addition to its catchiness, and that made me appreciate

1291
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 1: it even more. But all of those songs from around

1292
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: that time, Born in the USA, I'm on Fire, even

1293
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:57,639
Speaker 1: Glory Days, I mean, any of those songs that played

1294
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 1: on the radio, even Hungry Heart, you know, all those

1295
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 1: songs that were popular I enjoyed as well. But like you,

1296
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 1: I never owned a Springsteen album until actually much later

1297
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: in my life, when I think I bought Nebraska, when

1298
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 1: I realized that Nebraska was the one that everyone touted

1299
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 1: as probably the best Springsteen album, or the one that

1300
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:25,680
Speaker 1: was the most authentic, the most pure, and yeah, Nebraska's

1301
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 1: a masterpiece. Here's how I got into Nebraska. Actually, I

1302
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 1: can tell you because my band from college, when we

1303
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 1: got together as a band, this is now about twenty

1304
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 1: years ago, but after college, we played together somewhere and

1305
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 1: we were looking for some cover songs to play, and

1306
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:44,599
Speaker 1: one of the guys brought to the band the song

1307
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: Atlantic City, which is on Nebraska. And I don't know

1308
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 1: that I had heard Atlantic City at that point. I

1309
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 1: don't know how that's possible, but it wasn't a song

1310
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:56,599
Speaker 1: that was familiar to me, and I not only loved

1311
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 1: playing it, I just kind of became obsessed with the

1312
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 1: song Atlantic City. Atlantic City is from that period, is

1313
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:06,760
Speaker 1: from Nebraska, and that was my gateway into that era

1314
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 1: of Springsteen. So I bought Nebraska, and I saw Springsteen

1315
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 1: and concert in Chicago at the United Center. Got to

1316
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 1: experience what a live Springsteen show, the full force of

1317
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 1: a Springsteen live performance, and once you see that, you

1318
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 1: kind of have to be a fan, because nobody performs

1319
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: like Springsteen. So I am a bigger fan than you.

1320
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 1: I would say for sure, but I wasn't a huge

1321
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: fan back when I was a kid, and maybe talking

1322
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 1: about the live performance is a good, good transition into

1323
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 1: the film, because this probably wouldn't have been a surprise

1324
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:45,440
Speaker 1: had I known more about the material and this specific

1325
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 1: period in Springsteen's life and career going in the source

1326
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 1: material the book Delivered Me from Nowhere. This is a

1327
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 1: biopic about a musician with a reputation for his incomparable

1328
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: ability to perform for a live crowd, in which Josh

1329
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: there are almost no scenes of him performing for a

1330
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:05,879
Speaker 1: live crowd, and the emotional catharsis occurs for an audience

1331
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 1: of one, and that's a therapist.

1332
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 7: Delivering Me from Nowhere is a.

1333
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 1: Movie largely about depression and one of our most personal

1334
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 1: rock songwriters journey to realizing that he can open his

1335
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:20,799
Speaker 1: mouth to express himself to someone when he's not on stage.

1336
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: That's the journey of the film, and on that level,

1337
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 1: I can appreciate any biopic, any music biopick that defies

1338
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 1: some of those generic expectations. I mean, really, the movie

1339
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 1: opens with him playing Born to Run to end a tour,

1340
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:37,640
Speaker 1: so you see about three minutes of a live performance

1341
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: and you see them recording Born in the USA in

1342
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:45,680
Speaker 1: the studio maybe three quarters of the way through the film,

1343
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 1: and that's about it as far as Springsteen performing. So

1344
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 1: that surprised me, and I suppose it surprised me in

1345
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 1: a good way, right or wrong. You probably know this

1346
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 1: about me now over the years, Verius similitude in these

1347
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 1: type the films has mattered to me. It matters to

1348
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 1: me with music movies. I I think it's more right

1349
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,800
Speaker 1: than wrong to believe that here because Bruce's artistic reputation

1350
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 1: is all about authenticity, and the movie documents the making

1351
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 1: of this album, Nebraska, which is his most authentic, or

1352
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,639
Speaker 1: considered his most personal, his grittiest, it's the the most raw.

1353
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:21,599
Speaker 1: It's the one where he was just recording with him

1354
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 1: and his guitar in his bedroom and you know, some

1355
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 1: echo effects and in a in a cassette player, but

1356
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 1: otherwise it's it's it's just him and Jeremy Allen. White

1357
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 1: as an actor can embody Springsteen.

1358
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:38,599
Speaker 7: He can.

1359
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 1: He can hit the emotional notes that you need. But

1360
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 1: but musically it's him playing, it's him singing. He sounds

1361
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:51,600
Speaker 1: like Bruce. He plays like Bruce. There's there's comfort for me,

1362
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 1: and how how right he he gets that. One issue is, though,

1363
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: and I have issues with this film, I'm I'm, I'm

1364
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 1: mixed on this film ultimately, is that when he's not

1365
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 1: recording Nebraska, he's writing Nebraska. And writer's writing on screen

1366
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:11,799
Speaker 1: is not only not very compelling, but to communicate whatever

1367
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 1: transfer is occurring between his brain, his subconscious and the page.

1368
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: He can't talk to himself or that would be odd.

1369
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:24,559
Speaker 1: So we have to believe he's motivated to scribble things

1370
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: on a notepad or write it in a lyric, and

1371
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,680
Speaker 1: that results in moments like him him writing on a notepad,

1372
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: a yellow pad, double album, question mark circle, or when

1373
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 1: he started writing lyrics. And then of course he's being

1374
01:17:41,439 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 1: haunted by flashbacks black and white memories of his dad

1375
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: in his tumultuous childhood, the drinking and the abuse, problems

1376
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 1: between his father and mother, but also some tender moments

1377
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:58,559
Speaker 1: between them. His father is played by Stephen Graham. And

1378
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 1: after all those flashbacks and he's driving to his father's

1379
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:05,760
Speaker 1: to the house he grew up in in Jersey and

1380
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 1: it's dilapidated and everything. He now goes back to his

1381
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 1: yellow notepad and he returns to those lyrics, and you

1382
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 1: know what he does, Joshi, He crosses out it's either

1383
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: the pronoun she or he, and he changes them to

1384
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 1: I because it's his demons that he's wrestling with, and

1385
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:30,680
Speaker 1: he has to convey that his songs are that personal.

1386
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:33,760
Speaker 1: He's not going to hide behind these characters anymore. This

1387
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 1: is Bruce on the page Deliver Me from Nowhere. Can't

1388
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 1: evoke the magnitude of Springsteen's interiority, straining to literalize the

1389
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:49,640
Speaker 1: mysteries and anxieties that Nebraska already mined. It's there in

1390
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 1: the music. The music is doing the work. The album's

1391
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 1: doing the work, and the movie is just trying to

1392
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,320
Speaker 1: put it up there on the screen. And we have

1393
01:18:57,400 --> 01:18:59,680
Speaker 1: all those black and white flashbacks to reveal all that

1394
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:03,400
Speaker 1: inner turmoil. But the other way and it feels cliched,

1395
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:05,559
Speaker 1: and it feels heavy handed, And the other way the

1396
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 1: movie chooses to allow us into Bruce's psyche. Is this

1397
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 1: at two or three key points after listening to demos,

1398
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 1: Josh John Landau, who's like his best friend, longtime collaborator, friend, manager, producer,

1399
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:23,880
Speaker 1: he's played by Jeremy Strong here, Jeremy Strong in these

1400
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:28,880
Speaker 1: scenes tells us what Bruce is trying to convey. He

1401
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 1: articulates the inner turmoil his psyche in scenes with his wife,

1402
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 1: who's played by Grace Gummer, Poor Grace Gummer. Maybe there

1403
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: was more on the page, Maybe there was more that

1404
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 1: was shot in the movie. She might have a single line.

1405
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm not sure she even has that. Otherwise, I don't

1406
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 1: even think we ever hear her name, Josh. Her character

1407
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 1: is literally only there to be the surrogate for the audience.

1408
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 1: She's just to be there to be on the receiving

1409
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 1: end so her husband can explain to her to us

1410
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 1: what Bruce is going through. Like, I don't know where

1411
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 1: this falls on the on the Bechdel test, but I

1412
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:11,080
Speaker 1: think it's way off the chart.

1413
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 7: You know, She's just a.

1414
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 1: Receptacle for huh for for Landau's you know, psychologizing and

1415
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 1: it's and it feels so awkward. And I found the

1416
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 1: whole characterization of Landau odd, like like the movie's trying

1417
01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: to lionize him as much as it's lionizing Springsteen. It's

1418
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:33,320
Speaker 1: like glorifying him in the same way it's glory And

1419
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:35,680
Speaker 1: I know how close they are, but that that's how

1420
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 1: I felt. So those are the things that really held

1421
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 1: me back from fully embracing some of the more redeeming

1422
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 1: facets of the film.

1423
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 7: It is.

1424
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 1: For as awkward as some of those those flashbacks are,

1425
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 1: and scenes with the father, and as cliched as they

1426
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: may have felt, I will give Stephen Graham, as as

1427
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 1: Douglas Springsteen, a lot of credit. He he does imbue

1428
01:20:55,560 --> 01:21:00,120
Speaker 1: some of those those moments with some real heartbreaking vulnerability

1429
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 1: and despair.

1430
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 2: Sounds like my instinct to hold off until you know

1431
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:08,519
Speaker 2: Jerry Melin White gets his Oscar nomination. Yeah, it is

1432
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 2: probably a good one. I think I'll wait till that

1433
01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 2: I'll have to see it, then I'll catch up with it.

1434
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:14,640
Speaker 2: An actor who I really admire, so I did not

1435
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 2: surprised at all that he's quite good here.

1436
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 1: We've got Catherine Bigelow's a house of dynamite to get

1437
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 1: to first, a bit of housekeeping next week on the show.

1438
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 1: We're going to keep the reviews coming, trying to get

1439
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 1: to as many things as we can. It's that time

1440
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:33,639
Speaker 1: of the year where screeners fortunately are piling up and

1441
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 1: it's just about making as much time as we can

1442
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 1: to see them. Right now, I have five films I

1443
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:43,160
Speaker 1: am seeing on the docket. I don't know, Josh that

1444
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 1: we'll both see all of them, but I do know

1445
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 1: that we've both seen Del Toro's Frankenstein with Oscar Isaac

1446
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 1: and Jacob Lordi as the creature that's had a limited

1447
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:58,400
Speaker 1: theatrical run. It comes to Netflix next weekend. You had

1448
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 1: Pinocchio on your twenty two top ten list. We've been fans. Yes,

1449
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 1: I was so excited for this one. Can't wait to

1450
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 1: talk about it next week. I'm looking forward to it

1451
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 1: as well. Saw it on the big screen at the

1452
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 1: Music Box at the Chicago International Film Festival, So right

1453
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 1: environment did that payoff in my reaction? That's a tease

1454
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 1: in the business, Josh. We will also talk about I

1455
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:23,719
Speaker 1: need to see this one this weekend. Bogonia, the new

1456
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 1: one from yourgos Lanthymos that expands this weekend. I was

1457
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:30,599
Speaker 1: able to see The Mastermind, the new one from Kelly Reikert.

1458
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 1: I don't know that you are going to be able

1459
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 1: to see it, Josh.

1460
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 2: So Bogonia is opening around me, relatively near to me,

1461
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 2: I should say The Mastermind, I might. I might have

1462
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,479
Speaker 2: to beg you to buy me another week on that

1463
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:46,160
Speaker 2: it is playing in Edinburgh, which I might be able

1464
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:48,439
Speaker 2: to get to, but that's a little harder to get

1465
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 2: to than the other theaters I've been going to. But yeah,

1466
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:54,679
Speaker 2: definitely The Mastermind is on my radar and hopefully we'll

1467
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:56,679
Speaker 2: be able to discuss that next week as well.

1468
01:22:57,160 --> 01:23:00,719
Speaker 1: Christy is also coming out. That's the Sydney Sweeney boxing

1469
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:04,960
Speaker 1: biopic about Christy Martin. David Misha directed that. I've seen that.

1470
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 1: I've also seen Peter Hujar's Day, the new one from

1471
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 1: Iris Sachs that played at the Refocused Film Festival. I

1472
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 1: think it was on the Chicago International Film Festival lineup

1473
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:17,680
Speaker 1: as well. So a host of movies coming out and

1474
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 1: a host of movies that we've seen between the two

1475
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:24,000
Speaker 1: of us will have a lot for you over the

1476
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 1: coming weeks, all subject to change as always. You can

1477
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 1: see what we have planned anyway by going to Film

1478
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 1: Spotting dot net slash episodes. Speaking of plans, Josh, a

1479
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 1: press release recently went out and I'm very excited to

1480
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:42,920
Speaker 1: mention it here on the show for the first time.

1481
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: You know, you would have been part of this, but

1482
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:48,680
Speaker 1: you had to venture off to Scotland.

1483
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,280
Speaker 2: I know I'm missing a handful of things. This one

1484
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 2: really hurts.

1485
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 1: It felt so honored to be approached by the city's

1486
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:02,560
Speaker 1: Department of Cultural Affairs. The entire month of November, the

1487
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:05,599
Speaker 1: Chicago Department of Cultural Affairs is honoring in the Chicago

1488
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:08,759
Speaker 1: Film Office is celebrating fifty years of Ciskel and Ebert.

1489
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 1: So every week in November there is a different event

1490
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:16,280
Speaker 1: going on that will pay tribute to Ciskel and Ebert.

1491
01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:21,200
Speaker 1: And they approached me about having film spotting involved. They

1492
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:24,760
Speaker 1: thought that seemed fitting because of us being part of

1493
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 1: this legacy, which is just an honor to even be

1494
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 1: mentioned as part of that conversation. And they said, what

1495
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:35,280
Speaker 1: would you like to do? What movie would you like

1496
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 1: to screen? We're thinking about having a screening and maybe

1497
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 1: a Q and A afterward. And I came up with

1498
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:45,639
Speaker 1: a few ideas, and ultimately the one I pitched there

1499
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: could have been so many. I've We did an entire

1500
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: show with Matt Singer right about films that we think

1501
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 1: of immediately when we think about Ciskel and Ebert, the

1502
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:58,240
Speaker 1: movies that influenced us, that we identify with them, And

1503
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 1: one I said was John Sales Lone Star, a film

1504
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 1: that I remember going to see driving an hour away

1505
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 1: from me to see. I had never heard of John Sales.

1506
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 1: I had seen Eight Men Out, but I didn't know

1507
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 1: it was a John Sales film. I drove an hour

1508
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 1: to see Lone Star because I watched their review of

1509
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 1: it and heard them rave about it and said, I

1510
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 1: have to see that movie. That sounds incredible. They put

1511
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 1: it on my radar and I want to revisit it.

1512
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:30,719
Speaker 1: It seems like an important film to see now. And

1513
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:33,800
Speaker 1: because of that identification with the show, I pitched it

1514
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:35,720
Speaker 1: and they thought it was a great idea. So we're

1515
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 1: going to screen that on November twenty fifth, So Thanksgiving Week, Tuesday,

1516
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 1: November twenty fifth, we're going to screen it. People can

1517
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:45,719
Speaker 1: come out be part of that screening, and Michael Phillips

1518
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:47,679
Speaker 1: and I are going to do a Q and A

1519
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:48,559
Speaker 1: after that screening.

1520
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks to Michael for filling in for me. And

1521
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:54,479
Speaker 2: he'll be perfect, right. He'll have stories I'm sure to

1522
01:25:54,520 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 2: tell of working alongside Ebert many years, and yeah, it'll

1523
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:02,720
Speaker 2: be fun for you and Michael. Too bad I'll have

1524
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 2: to miss it.

1525
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 7: That will take place.

1526
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:07,639
Speaker 1: All of the movie screenings in November will take place

1527
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 1: at the historic Claudia Cassidy Theater. In downtown Chicago. Some

1528
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 1: of the other movies that are playing Eaves by You,

1529
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 1: Breaking Away, Drugstore, Cowboy. It really is going to be

1530
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:19,200
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. There's there's a part of this,

1531
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:23,840
Speaker 1: Josh that that involves two actors playing Roger and Gene

1532
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:25,520
Speaker 1: and doing a live performance.

1533
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:27,559
Speaker 7: So it's it's going to be pretty great.

1534
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:30,880
Speaker 2: I want to hear if you're able to make that.

1535
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:32,880
Speaker 2: I'm very curious what that's going to be.

1536
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,240
Speaker 1: I would love to We will link to more information

1537
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:37,920
Speaker 1: about this over at film spotting dot net and in

1538
01:26:38,439 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: the notes for this show. We haven't had a prize

1539
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:43,680
Speaker 1: pack to give away in a while, but speaking of

1540
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 1: The Mastermind, our friends at movie have a prize pack

1541
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 1: for The Mastermind, and all you have to do is

1542
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 1: send us a note feedback at film spotting dot Net,

1543
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:58,920
Speaker 1: put Mastermind prize in the subject line, and tell us

1544
01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: your favorite Kelly Riikert not movie Kelly Reikert character.

1545
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:06,599
Speaker 7: Josh. We're gonna make a little larder on him.

1546
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love this, and of course I'm immediately thinking

1547
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:14,160
Speaker 2: who am I going to go with? Which you know,

1548
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 2: is it gonna be Michelle Williams, Yes, it is. I

1549
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:19,760
Speaker 2: think I'm gonna go with her and your wife in

1550
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 2: Meek's cutoff. I think that's where I would go.

1551
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:25,839
Speaker 1: Good choice, Good choice. The prize pack will feature items

1552
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:30,160
Speaker 1: from the Mastermind's fictional Framingham Museum of Art, so should

1553
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:32,840
Speaker 1: be very cool. Look forward to giving that out again.

1554
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:36,599
Speaker 1: Just email us Mastermind Prize in the subject line feedback

1555
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 1: at filmspotting dot net and tell us your favorite reiker

1556
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 1: character and yes, it might be just telling us your

1557
01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 1: favorite Michelle Williams character in a Kelly Reikert movie.

1558
01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:48,080
Speaker 2: Quick note about our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show

1559
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:51,679
Speaker 2: Looking at cinema's present via its past. Well, we're about

1560
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:54,759
Speaker 2: to talk about a House of Dynamite and they are

1561
01:27:54,840 --> 01:28:00,000
Speaker 2: as well. That is part two of their First Strikes pairing. Previously,

1562
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:02,960
Speaker 2: they discuss Sidney Lumett's Failed Safe, which I'm sure will

1563
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:05,479
Speaker 2: come up in our conversation Adam. That's a film we

1564
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 2: revisited as part of our Loumette marathon not too long ago,

1565
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 2: so a great pairing there. From the Next Picture Show.

1566
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 2: You can find new episodes every Tuesday wherever you get

1567
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:16,560
Speaker 2: your podcasts.

1568
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 9: Obviously this is difficult for me. I'm caught in the

1569
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 9: middle of something and I don't know what.

1570
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:28,840
Speaker 7: What do you think it could be?

1571
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:30,400
Speaker 8: Well?

1572
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:32,719
Speaker 2: I I deal with a lot of important people, people

1573
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 2: who work for the committee. Hello, for the committee, the

1574
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:37,559
Speaker 2: committee to re elect the President.

1575
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:41,920
Speaker 1: Yes, time for some poll results, And Josh, I thought

1576
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: this one maybe wasn't actually deeply flawed. I thought by

1577
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 1: making it a choice between the two clearly best options,

1578
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 1: we had perfected this poll. We asked listeners to tell

1579
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: us one and only one Robert Redford performance. Choose the best.

1580
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:03,040
Speaker 1: Make it easy or make it really hard? Is it

1581
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:05,640
Speaker 1: either Bob Woodward in All the President's Men? Or is

1582
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:08,760
Speaker 1: it Butch Cassidy? Is it Sundance Kid? I should say,

1583
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:13,560
Speaker 1: in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. And this seems appropriate.

1584
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:16,519
Speaker 1: It should have been difficult, it should have been close.

1585
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 7: How did it come out well?

1586
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:22,120
Speaker 2: As happened with our top five Robert Redford movies Adam,

1587
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 2: where you and I both chose number one Bob wood

1588
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:28,800
Speaker 2: Word and All the President's Men. That movie took this

1589
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:31,880
Speaker 2: poll as well, fifty five percent to forty five percent

1590
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:35,559
Speaker 2: for Butch, which I think makes it a not flawed pole.

1591
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 2: I think if you have it relatively close like that,

1592
01:29:39,160 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 2: it means we did a good job, but apparently listeners

1593
01:29:42,120 --> 01:29:44,320
Speaker 2: were upset that we limited the options.

1594
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 7: I guess.

1595
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm looking at the feedback and here's Ceball

1596
01:29:47,479 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 1: saying just two options. Come on, man, Sam Appenheim, same thing,

1597
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:54,719
Speaker 1: only those choices. I prefer the Sting.

1598
01:29:55,400 --> 01:30:00,040
Speaker 2: Maybe we underestimated the sting Jeremy Webner Berman all. So

1599
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 2: the sting three exclamation.

1600
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:04,840
Speaker 7: Points yeah sewn means go ahead and take it.

1601
01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 2: Without Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, there would not

1602
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:09,960
Speaker 2: be the Robert Redford that we know, not just the

1603
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 2: other great movies that rolled out of that star making performance,

1604
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:15,240
Speaker 2: and not just the perfect teaming with Paul Newman, but

1605
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:19,360
Speaker 2: also the outlaw spirit that animated Redford's drive to produce movies,

1606
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 2: direct movies, and create the Sundance Institute to give other

1607
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:25,799
Speaker 2: storytellers a place to develop work that breaks the rules

1608
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:29,679
Speaker 2: and pushes the boundaries of filmmaking in the United States

1609
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:33,240
Speaker 2: and around the world. Okay, so finally someone's willing to

1610
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:36,880
Speaker 2: play along with our rules, and Sean goes with Butch

1611
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:38,360
Speaker 2: Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

1612
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:41,080
Speaker 1: And Shawn would know movie writer out in Salt Lake

1613
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 1: has has met and interviewed Redford more than once or twice.

1614
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 1: Here's Josh Broder all the President's Men, such a discipline,

1615
01:30:48,439 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 1: unshowy performance. He couldn't suppress his good looks, but he

1616
01:30:51,479 --> 01:30:53,719
Speaker 1: did shut down the charm and became the fact gathering

1617
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:56,439
Speaker 1: machine that the real Bob Woodward. I should say, who

1618
01:30:56,479 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 1: I've met several times was and is now now Josh

1619
01:30:59,479 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 1: is showing off. Also, if necessary, please spread the word

1620
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:05,599
Speaker 1: about All Is Lost, a masterclass in film acting by

1621
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: a master. I had it as an honorable mention. It

1622
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:13,320
Speaker 1: is a good movie and a very very good Redford performance.

1623
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 1: We have a new poll, Josh, and that means another

1624
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:22,280
Speaker 1: opportunity for us to be deeply flawed. We discussed Back

1625
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:25,560
Speaker 1: to the Future earlier in the show. Who's going to

1626
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:29,240
Speaker 1: argue with us that that's Robert Zemeckis's best film?

1627
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:29,720
Speaker 7: No?

1628
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:32,640
Speaker 2: One right at this point? I don't think so. I

1629
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 2: mean prime Forest Gump. I think you had people talking

1630
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:40,439
Speaker 2: about that as the pinnacle for Zamechas, But that movie's

1631
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:42,120
Speaker 2: taken its hit over the years. I still like it

1632
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:43,720
Speaker 2: quite a bit. That's why this poll is kind of

1633
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 2: difficult for me. But maybe now people would go to

1634
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 2: Back to the Future.

1635
01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:50,800
Speaker 1: Okay, we left that out of the poll because we

1636
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 1: were going to ask what's his best film? We thought

1637
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 1: Back to the Future would just just run away with it,

1638
01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:59,240
Speaker 1: so we decided instead to ask you what is his

1639
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 1: second best film. We gave you five options. Josh, they are.

1640
01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:06,720
Speaker 2: Back to the Future too, if you really want to

1641
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:13,120
Speaker 2: scratch that, it still castaway, contact Forrest Gump, Roger Rabbit,

1642
01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 2: and yeah, this time we are also going to offer other.

1643
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 1: So what's funny about this is I would have never

1644
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,320
Speaker 1: thought to include Back to the Future too, And in fact,

1645
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:23,720
Speaker 1: I had left it out when I originally sent back

1646
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:27,200
Speaker 1: to sam my suggestions with the other choices. But I

1647
01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:31,559
Speaker 1: looked at letterboxed and after Back to the Future, and

1648
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:34,160
Speaker 1: I think Forrest Gump and maybe Roger Rabbit. Back to

1649
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 1: the Future was the next most popular Zamechis film, so

1650
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:42,160
Speaker 1: I thought, okay, well, seqel to a beloved first film,

1651
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:46,360
Speaker 1: maybe it needs to be in the mix. And I

1652
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:48,920
Speaker 1: will note that right now I think it is finishing

1653
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:52,080
Speaker 1: last in this poll. So turns out that didn't end up.

1654
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 1: The letterbox crossover didn't happen here with our audience. But

1655
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:57,160
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this. It didn't come up in

1656
01:32:57,200 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 1: our review. I have said this before on the show.

1657
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 1: For as much as I loved Back to the Future,

1658
01:33:02,280 --> 01:33:04,640
Speaker 1: and Josh I said, I thought it was probably my

1659
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:08,200
Speaker 1: favorite nineteen eighty five movie in eighty five, I have

1660
01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:11,120
Speaker 1: still never seen either of the sequels. The fact that

1661
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: the factor I loved that movie as much as I did,

1662
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:16,599
Speaker 1: and the sequel came out four years later and I

1663
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:20,320
Speaker 1: was like, no, not interested, And so I was thinking

1664
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:23,679
Speaker 1: about it. Why did I at that time? Why could

1665
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,640
Speaker 1: I not be bothered to check it out? And I

1666
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:29,920
Speaker 1: honestly think the only answer is by that time, four

1667
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:33,240
Speaker 1: years later, going into going into high school, I was

1668
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:36,400
Speaker 1: I was on I was actually onto music. I was

1669
01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:39,799
Speaker 1: into you know, I was getting into being in my band,

1670
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 1: and I thought I was into more serious things and

1671
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 1: Back to the Future felt to me like a kid's movie. Yeah,

1672
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:46,800
Speaker 1: And I didn't think that's right.

1673
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:48,840
Speaker 2: I think that's right. It's related a little bit to

1674
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 2: how ironically, so, if I was eleven when Back to

1675
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:54,679
Speaker 2: the Future came out, it felt a little older than

1676
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:57,679
Speaker 2: Star Wars that I was still into but had been

1677
01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:00,479
Speaker 2: for a while. I think you're right, that may if

1678
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:04,840
Speaker 2: it was really four years later, I mean, that's a

1679
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:07,680
Speaker 2: big transition in your life from what eleven to you

1680
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:10,639
Speaker 2: know ten to fifteen, eleven to you know, fourteen, whatever

1681
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:13,960
Speaker 2: it would be. And maybe I did see both sequels,

1682
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 2: but have not watched them repeatedly or even seen them

1683
01:34:18,120 --> 01:34:21,200
Speaker 2: sense honestly, And I think that was probably part of

1684
01:34:21,240 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 2: it for me as well. I felt to some degree

1685
01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:25,439
Speaker 2: I was I'd outgrown it.

1686
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 1: Where are you going in this poll? Is it Gump?

1687
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:33,000
Speaker 2: You know? If I revisited Gump and revisited Roger Rabbit,

1688
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 2: That's what I would like to do, because I think

1689
01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:39,800
Speaker 2: I would probably lean Roger Rabbit. I just want to

1690
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,639
Speaker 2: see it's been so long since I've watched that if

1691
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:47,040
Speaker 2: it does as a whole hold up against something like Gump, which,

1692
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:49,120
Speaker 2: as I said, I really do like. Now these others

1693
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:51,439
Speaker 2: Back to the Future two wasn't really consideration for me,

1694
01:34:51,520 --> 01:34:54,200
Speaker 2: but Castaway in Contact I think are both incredibly strong,

1695
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:57,960
Speaker 2: so they gave me pause. But yeah, I think for

1696
01:34:58,040 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 2: me it comes down to those two and and I'm

1697
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:03,880
Speaker 2: gonna play. I'm gonna say probably Roger Rabbit. At this point,

1698
01:35:04,439 --> 01:35:06,560
Speaker 2: I see some of the critiques of Forrest Gump a

1699
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:08,840
Speaker 2: little bit more clearly than maybe I did when it

1700
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:11,280
Speaker 2: first came out, not that I think the movie's worthless

1701
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:14,000
Speaker 2: by any means, So probably today my vote will go

1702
01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:15,000
Speaker 2: with Roger Rabbit.

1703
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:15,719
Speaker 7: Okay.

1704
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:19,880
Speaker 1: I obviously can't consider Back to the Future too, So

1705
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:22,400
Speaker 1: if I'm allowing myself to vote and just putting that

1706
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 1: one to the side, I like Roger Rabbit, Okay. It's

1707
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:31,559
Speaker 1: definitely not above Castaway Contact or Forrest Gump. It comes

1708
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:36,000
Speaker 1: down to me to the two Hanks movies. It's Castaway

1709
01:35:36,200 --> 01:35:40,120
Speaker 1: or Gump. And what you said is interesting to me, Josh,

1710
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:43,439
Speaker 1: because I know that there are those critiques out there

1711
01:35:43,439 --> 01:35:45,160
Speaker 1: of Gump. I know there's a lot of people that

1712
01:35:45,240 --> 01:35:47,760
Speaker 1: really have a lot of disdain for that film. I

1713
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:50,759
Speaker 1: haven't at this point indulged in those critiques.

1714
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:51,280
Speaker 7: I haven't.

1715
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:54,439
Speaker 1: I haven't read them. I don't know what the what

1716
01:35:54,479 --> 01:35:57,080
Speaker 1: the hate for that movie is. I mean, I understand

1717
01:35:57,280 --> 01:35:59,519
Speaker 1: fundamentally or at the core, what it's about, but I

1718
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:03,679
Speaker 1: really haven't read the depth of it, and I haven't

1719
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 1: considered it, and I haven't watched the movie through that lens.

1720
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:09,320
Speaker 1: I haven't revisited it, so I don't really know what

1721
01:36:09,360 --> 01:36:12,800
Speaker 1: the fuss is all about. I only know what I

1722
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,320
Speaker 1: saw when I saw it twice back in ninety four

1723
01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:17,800
Speaker 1: when it came out, and I kind of loved it

1724
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:20,000
Speaker 1: when I saw it originally, and I'm still going off

1725
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 1: of that good thing. So yeah, Forrest Gump is going

1726
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 1: to be my pick. You can vote in that poll

1727
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:27,960
Speaker 1: and leave a comment at filmspotting dot net. We will

1728
01:36:27,960 --> 01:36:32,040
Speaker 1: share results and possibly your feedback in a couple of weeks.

1729
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:35,160
Speaker 1: Next up, and to close out the show, we have

1730
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:39,559
Speaker 1: Catherine Bigelows a House of dynamite, Josh. A nuclear missile

1731
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:42,120
Speaker 1: has been launched at the United States. We don't know

1732
01:36:42,160 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 1: who launched it, but we have nineteen minutes to respond.

1733
01:36:47,479 --> 01:36:52,040
Speaker 1: Rebecca Ferguson, Idris Elba, Tracy Letz and others are on

1734
01:36:52,120 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 1: the case.

1735
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:55,839
Speaker 8: Get in the car and just start driving.

1736
01:36:56,040 --> 01:37:01,360
Speaker 2: If we do not take steps to neutralize our amies now,

1737
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:04,160
Speaker 2: we will lose our window to do so.

1738
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:08,400
Speaker 7: If we get this wrong, none of us are going

1739
01:37:08,479 --> 01:37:09,520
Speaker 7: to be alive tomorrow.

1740
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 1: The gambit here Josh by Bigelow and the screenwriter Noah

1741
01:37:14,479 --> 01:37:20,799
Speaker 1: Oppenheim is that they revisit those nineteen incredibly tense minutes

1742
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,720
Speaker 1: from different perspectives. We basically have three different chapters that

1743
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,720
Speaker 1: fold in on themselves. I don't know if we need

1744
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:31,320
Speaker 1: to get into spoilers just yet. We can signal that

1745
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:33,920
Speaker 1: to our audience when we do, because I don't know

1746
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:36,120
Speaker 1: that you can talk about a house of dynamite without

1747
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:40,320
Speaker 1: reckoning with its conclusion or lack thereof.

1748
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:42,440
Speaker 7: What did you make of a house of dynamite?

1749
01:37:42,640 --> 01:37:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, before we get to that, I'm positive on it.

1750
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:49,439
Speaker 2: I don't think it's among Bigelow's best. I don't think

1751
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:52,920
Speaker 2: it's at the level of filmmaking craft of something like

1752
01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:56,240
Speaker 2: you know, Zero Dark thirty or The hurt Locker. And

1753
01:37:56,280 --> 01:38:00,599
Speaker 2: maybe it's just the technique that's chosen here, the drama

1754
01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:03,080
Speaker 2: style that I feel like we've moved on from where

1755
01:38:03,439 --> 01:38:05,240
Speaker 2: you know, you're in a war room and the camera

1756
01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:07,960
Speaker 2: will you know, zoom in or change focus from one

1757
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:10,960
Speaker 2: face to another to give us a sense of immediacy.

1758
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:15,880
Speaker 2: That being said, it was still of course like crisply made,

1759
01:38:15,920 --> 01:38:18,000
Speaker 2: and I was caught in its grip. There's no denying

1760
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:21,160
Speaker 2: that I was caught in this scenario. I think the

1761
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:27,000
Speaker 2: multiple perspectives, while not as additive as something similar happened

1762
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:30,120
Speaker 2: in this year's Weapons, that was you know, that was

1763
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:32,920
Speaker 2: crucial I think to why Weapons was so good I'm

1764
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:35,599
Speaker 2: not sure it's as additive here, though you do learn

1765
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:40,520
Speaker 2: different things about characters and about the scenario, the predicament

1766
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:42,639
Speaker 2: in general, so I don't think it hurts. I don't

1767
01:38:42,640 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 2: know that it helps all that much. My favorite thing

1768
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:47,240
Speaker 2: about it, And I'm guessing you liked this too, because

1769
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:50,880
Speaker 2: I remember you were super high on a vulgar Bertlemann's

1770
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:54,719
Speaker 2: score for All Quiet on the Western Front, and what

1771
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:59,360
Speaker 2: he brings here is just it feels like some of

1772
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:02,240
Speaker 2: the movements, the musical motifs here are like my stomach

1773
01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:05,240
Speaker 2: dropping out, which may be the key reason why I

1774
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:07,680
Speaker 2: was in this film's grip as much as I as

1775
01:39:07,760 --> 01:39:10,120
Speaker 2: much as I was, So yeah, I think if you're

1776
01:39:10,160 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 2: intrigued by the premise, it's well worth checking out. If

1777
01:39:13,200 --> 01:39:16,120
Speaker 2: you're a big low fan, which I am, it's worth

1778
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 2: seeing to put in the context of her career. Maybe

1779
01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:22,439
Speaker 2: there's something lacking there about, you know, the dynamics of

1780
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:26,479
Speaker 2: men in tight situations and where women might fit in

1781
01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:30,120
Speaker 2: little light on that maybe, but still I would recommend it.

1782
01:39:30,160 --> 01:39:31,519
Speaker 2: And yeah, I do want to talk a little bit

1783
01:39:31,560 --> 01:39:34,599
Speaker 2: about how the ending worked or didn't work, or just

1784
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:35,360
Speaker 2: affected you.

1785
01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:40,640
Speaker 1: I do really appreciate the score the way that you

1786
01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:43,360
Speaker 1: described it, I think it throws at just the level

1787
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:48,360
Speaker 1: that it needs to. Meaning it it doesn't overwhelm anything

1788
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:54,400
Speaker 1: that's happening. It adds just enough extra tension without without

1789
01:39:54,560 --> 01:39:57,200
Speaker 1: feeling like it it's trying to do too much.

1790
01:39:57,439 --> 01:39:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it chooses this moment's.

1791
01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:01,160
Speaker 1: Pers overwhelming us. And that's the thing too. I think

1792
01:40:01,160 --> 01:40:05,160
Speaker 1: it's used, it's used appropriately, and and you used all

1793
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:08,960
Speaker 1: the right terms to describe the intensity of this movie.

1794
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 1: I'm really I'm really conflicted by it because there's no

1795
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:17,320
Speaker 1: doubt that I was hooked with no disrespect at all

1796
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:19,839
Speaker 1: to Bigelow, who I do greatly admire as a filmmaker.

1797
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 1: I have been wondering if what I'm going to say next,

1798
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:25,880
Speaker 1: which is a variation on what I just said, would

1799
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:28,639
Speaker 1: be true almost regardless of how well it was crafted

1800
01:40:29,200 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 1: or who crafted it, just based on the plot, just

1801
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:36,599
Speaker 1: the structure. Yeah, however unsatisfying that plot and structure may

1802
01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:42,520
Speaker 1: ultimately be I was locked onto the screen through mounting annoyances,

1803
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:47,040
Speaker 1: through general dissatisfaction with how each chapter gets progressively weaker.

1804
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:49,559
Speaker 1: I think, not stronger. I mean I think one is

1805
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:52,400
Speaker 1: the best, and then two and then three. As as

1806
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:55,719
Speaker 1: it builds to its conclusion. The stakes are so high

1807
01:40:56,080 --> 01:41:00,200
Speaker 1: and so urgently real, and and with the score or

1808
01:41:00,200 --> 01:41:02,719
Speaker 1: in some of the other elements is propelling you along

1809
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:04,800
Speaker 1: that even if it stretched out over an hour and

1810
01:41:04,840 --> 01:41:07,960
Speaker 1: fifty two minutes of runtime, it's all playing out over

1811
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:11,840
Speaker 1: those nineteen minutes of screen time, and that countdown to

1812
01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:17,400
Speaker 1: extinction Mega death reference is gripping, and I think it

1813
01:41:18,240 --> 01:41:22,240
Speaker 1: almost can't be anything but gripping. And to illustrate my point,

1814
01:41:22,439 --> 01:41:26,080
Speaker 1: I started the movie Saturday night, and I wasn't able

1815
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:28,360
Speaker 1: to finish it before Sarah and I went to see

1816
01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:31,559
Speaker 1: the Springsteen movie, so I had to finish it Sunday morning.

1817
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:35,080
Speaker 1: It was basically part three, except I had started Part

1818
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 1: three had already begun Saturday night. They were already at

1819
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:41,400
Speaker 1: the basketball arena, let me put it that way, so

1820
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:46,240
Speaker 1: maybe twenty some minutes left. And I was kind of

1821
01:41:46,280 --> 01:41:48,280
Speaker 1: thinking about this when I started it. I knew that

1822
01:41:48,400 --> 01:41:51,800
Speaker 1: Sarah was just behind me in the kitchen as I

1823
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:54,720
Speaker 1: was watching the movie, and I was pretty sure I

1824
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:57,519
Speaker 1: was like, with no context at all, not even knowing

1825
01:41:57,520 --> 01:42:00,880
Speaker 1: the name of the film, what's happening, and no interest

1826
01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:04,560
Speaker 1: in watching this movie on a Sunday morning, I bet

1827
01:42:04,960 --> 01:42:07,800
Speaker 1: she's going to start hearing this movie and picking up

1828
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 1: on what's going on, and she's going to start paying attention.

1829
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:12,760
Speaker 1: She's going to start the next and the next thing.

1830
01:42:12,760 --> 01:42:15,840
Speaker 1: I knew, Josh, sure enough, the last like fifteen minutes

1831
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:18,080
Speaker 1: of the movie, she's on the couch next to me

1832
01:42:18,160 --> 01:42:20,320
Speaker 1: watching the end of the film, like it's just that

1833
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:22,720
Speaker 1: kind of thriller. If you're in the room, you are

1834
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:25,519
Speaker 1: going to end up watching it. So so why is it?

1835
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:28,559
Speaker 1: Why is it frustrating? Why why am I mixed on it?

1836
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:33,200
Speaker 1: You talked about the structure, and is it additive enough.

1837
01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:36,479
Speaker 1: If you're going to take the raw Schoman approach show

1838
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:39,400
Speaker 1: us the same event from different perspectives, then you do

1839
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:41,599
Speaker 1: have to do something to justify it. What makes raw

1840
01:42:41,640 --> 01:42:45,120
Speaker 1: schomn ra Schoman is it isn't showing us the same

1841
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:48,240
Speaker 1: event from different perspectives. It's that all of the participants

1842
01:42:48,240 --> 01:42:51,120
Speaker 1: have a different perspective on the event, a different version

1843
01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:55,080
Speaker 1: of the truth, a subjective version that projects a more

1844
01:42:55,160 --> 01:42:58,600
Speaker 1: suitable image of themselves. I'm not criticizing a House of

1845
01:42:58,680 --> 01:43:01,920
Speaker 1: Dynamite for not taking the same approach the Raschoman did.

1846
01:43:02,520 --> 01:43:06,240
Speaker 1: Chapter two's retelling. You know, doesn't make us question chapter

1847
01:43:06,280 --> 01:43:08,800
Speaker 1: one's and they're both different than Chapter three. And there's

1848
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:12,160
Speaker 1: no universal truth, No, there's one. There's one version of

1849
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:15,639
Speaker 1: the truth here. But what what am I getting? Am

1850
01:43:15,640 --> 01:43:19,920
Speaker 1: I getting deeply drawn characters with enough nuance to warrant

1851
01:43:20,120 --> 01:43:23,479
Speaker 1: watching the same conversations just with the camera pointed at

1852
01:43:23,479 --> 01:43:26,439
Speaker 1: a different person? Am I getting enough political depth with

1853
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:30,639
Speaker 1: nuances to justify that shift? Am I getting enough emotional depth?

1854
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:33,680
Speaker 1: Am I really learning anything new about the difficulty of

1855
01:43:33,720 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 1: decision making as each chapter develops and we move up

1856
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:38,240
Speaker 1: the chain of command?

1857
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:39,160
Speaker 7: I didn't.

1858
01:43:39,240 --> 01:43:41,960
Speaker 1: I didn't really think so. And in some cases, I

1859
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 1: was questioning, why are we spending any time with some

1860
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:48,759
Speaker 1: of these characters at all? Willa Fitzgerald is a CNN

1861
01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 1: representative at the White House who we cut. We cut

1862
01:43:51,400 --> 01:43:56,120
Speaker 1: two a few times. Moses Ingram is a FEMA official. Yeah,

1863
01:43:56,439 --> 01:44:00,720
Speaker 1: these these feels so so just clunky in terms of

1864
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:04,599
Speaker 1: how they're used. And this is a movie that is

1865
01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:08,439
Speaker 1: gripping with real world urgency and it's ticking clock premise,

1866
01:44:09,640 --> 01:44:15,760
Speaker 1: but struggles to justify its repetitive structure. That's how I

1867
01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:20,320
Speaker 1: felt it was offering diminishing returns. And then ultimately it

1868
01:44:20,360 --> 01:44:23,360
Speaker 1: had for me what was a frustratingly hollow ending.

1869
01:44:23,760 --> 01:44:25,360
Speaker 7: That's where I came out.

1870
01:44:25,160 --> 01:44:27,640
Speaker 2: On it real quick, and then we'll jump to spoilers.

1871
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 2: I think you're largely right as you were going through

1872
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:33,080
Speaker 2: the possibilities, though the one that did resonate was which

1873
01:44:33,120 --> 01:44:35,760
Speaker 2: is somewhat related to her ongoing concerned about, you know,

1874
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:39,640
Speaker 2: men in action and what that social dynamic is, the

1875
01:44:39,720 --> 01:44:43,439
Speaker 2: difficulty of decision making. I did feel got amped up

1876
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:47,200
Speaker 2: because one stressor I kept having during the movie was

1877
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:50,160
Speaker 2: surely someone's in charge here, who will know what to do?

1878
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:56,240
Speaker 2: And you learn early on we're screwed. It's like, in

1879
01:44:56,280 --> 01:44:59,719
Speaker 2: this scenario, we're screwed, but yet that hope still clings

1880
01:44:59,760 --> 01:45:03,639
Speaker 2: to you. And when you shift perspectives, it's sort of like, Okay,

1881
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:06,360
Speaker 2: this group is going to know what decision to make

1882
01:45:06,560 --> 01:45:11,080
Speaker 2: or how to handle what we've previously seen differently. So again, overall,

1883
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I don't think the perspectives are

1884
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:16,879
Speaker 2: necessarily hugely additive, but the difficulty of decision making element

1885
01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:19,400
Speaker 2: I did think was one thing that I at least

1886
01:45:19,479 --> 01:45:22,240
Speaker 2: resonated with. It's almost like, yeah, I.

1887
01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:23,200
Speaker 7: Want to talk about that more.

1888
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:25,280
Speaker 1: With the ending, but let me give a couple other

1889
01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:28,439
Speaker 1: quick things, one bad, one good for me. The other

1890
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:31,920
Speaker 1: attempts to humanize the characters and add additional weight to

1891
01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 1: the story. With the constant insert shots that we got.

1892
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:40,000
Speaker 1: I also found heavy handed flags waving on cars, portraits

1893
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:43,800
Speaker 1: of former presidents overlooking the decision making, the toys that

1894
01:45:43,880 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 1: some of these parents have bought for their kids. Again,

1895
01:45:49,160 --> 01:45:51,760
Speaker 1: the minion that falls out of the locker as they

1896
01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:53,760
Speaker 1: go off on their mission, and the camera has to

1897
01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:55,400
Speaker 1: tilt down to make sure that we see it.

1898
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:55,760
Speaker 2: Now.

1899
01:45:56,160 --> 01:45:58,360
Speaker 1: You know who I liked a lot speaking of a

1900
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:02,040
Speaker 1: decision maker in chapter two was Tracy Letts. I really

1901
01:46:02,080 --> 01:46:05,840
Speaker 1: like Tracy Letts as General Brady. He's the combatant commander.

1902
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:09,879
Speaker 1: That's his title of Stratcom because this is the general

1903
01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:14,640
Speaker 1: character we have seen so many times before in Failsafe

1904
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:17,920
Speaker 1: and lots of other films. He is the hawk by

1905
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:22,160
Speaker 1: nature of his role the combatant commander, he is the hawk.

1906
01:46:22,360 --> 01:46:25,040
Speaker 1: He is always, or he should be, always a little

1907
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:27,680
Speaker 1: too eager or a little too willing to let the

1908
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:32,400
Speaker 1: nuclear arsenal fly to strike first at our enemies. By

1909
01:46:32,439 --> 01:46:35,240
Speaker 1: the nature of his position, he has to be the

1910
01:46:35,320 --> 01:46:39,639
Speaker 1: one to present that reality to everyone to make everyone realize, hey,

1911
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:42,759
Speaker 1: by the way, we maybe have to launch our missiles

1912
01:46:42,760 --> 01:46:46,200
Speaker 1: and actually be the aggressors here in this scenario. And

1913
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:48,960
Speaker 1: I will say that there's a real laugher in the

1914
01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:52,400
Speaker 1: script when and Let's does his best with it when

1915
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:54,639
Speaker 1: the president, who we don't see at this point, says

1916
01:46:55,080 --> 01:46:58,400
Speaker 1: this is insanity, and let's has to say, no, mister president,

1917
01:46:58,840 --> 01:47:02,759
Speaker 1: this is reality. But it is the reality. And let's

1918
01:47:02,840 --> 01:47:06,479
Speaker 1: present the strike options in a way that we've never

1919
01:47:06,479 --> 01:47:08,479
Speaker 1: seen a general character like this in one of these

1920
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:11,600
Speaker 1: movies before. That betrays no truth to me, betrayed no

1921
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:16,559
Speaker 1: true leaning. He was objective, he was detached, almost in

1922
01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:19,880
Speaker 1: a way that never felt inhuman though I thought it

1923
01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:23,080
Speaker 1: was a real tightrope walk that Let's walk in this film.

1924
01:47:23,320 --> 01:47:25,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's good, His scenes are good, and the decision

1925
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:28,280
Speaker 2: making comes in there. You do get more information about

1926
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:31,800
Speaker 2: what he has at his disposal to have that response

1927
01:47:31,920 --> 01:47:34,280
Speaker 2: when we do get to his section a little bit more,

1928
01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:36,200
Speaker 2: which which I thought added something there is.

1929
01:47:36,479 --> 01:47:41,720
Speaker 7: I am being We did everything right right, we did

1930
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:43,400
Speaker 7: every right.

1931
01:47:46,040 --> 01:47:46,280
Speaker 6: We do.

1932
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:49,600
Speaker 9: This makes sense making all his bombs and all his

1933
01:47:49,680 --> 01:47:56,519
Speaker 9: plans was just ready to blow.

1934
01:47:59,240 --> 01:48:01,559
Speaker 1: So here's where let's go ahead and get to the ending.

1935
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:04,960
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the spoilers, because it does seem from

1936
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:08,280
Speaker 1: a little bit I've seen online, this is a divisive ending,

1937
01:48:08,439 --> 01:48:13,200
Speaker 1: and I can understand because my immediate reaction, probably like

1938
01:48:13,200 --> 01:48:19,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people, was what, So let's talk about it.

1939
01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:22,719
Speaker 1: What was your reaction to the ending and were you surprised,

1940
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:25,720
Speaker 1: surprising in a good way, a bad way, ultimately disappointed

1941
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:26,760
Speaker 1: by it or not.

1942
01:48:27,439 --> 01:48:29,559
Speaker 2: I was surprised. I did not think it was going

1943
01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:31,680
Speaker 2: to end there. But I don't think I have a

1944
01:48:31,720 --> 01:48:33,640
Speaker 2: problem with it. And here's where we can bring in

1945
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:36,320
Speaker 2: the Lumette film Failsafe, which we discussed as part of

1946
01:48:36,360 --> 01:48:40,439
Speaker 2: our marathon not too long ago. I think I immediately

1947
01:48:40,439 --> 01:48:44,640
Speaker 2: made the connection that fails Safe ends not exactly the

1948
01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:48,080
Speaker 2: same way. I think there's a bit of a question

1949
01:48:48,160 --> 01:48:50,919
Speaker 2: mark over House of Dynamite. Maybe I'm reading it differently

1950
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:54,519
Speaker 2: than you are, but it is still a question mark

1951
01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:58,439
Speaker 2: where any answer that we get is a doomsday answer.

1952
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:03,280
Speaker 2: So to me, the two films shared a whether you

1953
01:49:03,320 --> 01:49:08,200
Speaker 2: want to call it, political or philosophical position about nuclear

1954
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:14,000
Speaker 2: proliferation in general that both endings to me served well.

1955
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:18,439
Speaker 2: Fail Safe had to end the way it does, which

1956
01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:20,519
Speaker 2: I don't know if we want to spoil that as well,

1957
01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:25,280
Speaker 2: but is not good. And a house of dynamite ends again,

1958
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:27,439
Speaker 2: as I said, a little bit of a question mark,

1959
01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:33,759
Speaker 2: not exactly the explosion, but still clearly to me not good.

1960
01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:36,400
Speaker 2: And so I guess that's why it didn't bother me.

1961
01:49:38,760 --> 01:49:43,680
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm misremembering the ending of fail Safe, but I

1962
01:49:43,720 --> 01:49:46,960
Speaker 1: see the endings as very different because fail Safe ends

1963
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:50,040
Speaker 1: with the decision being made. Fail Safe ends with a

1964
01:49:50,120 --> 01:49:55,840
Speaker 1: clear conclusion as to a doomsday scenario, and this film

1965
01:49:55,960 --> 01:50:01,160
Speaker 1: wants to end on a note of ambiguity that supposedly,

1966
01:50:01,240 --> 01:50:06,040
Speaker 1: I think, leaves us to question what could happen next,

1967
01:50:06,160 --> 01:50:10,280
Speaker 1: and to send us off our couches to have a

1968
01:50:10,360 --> 01:50:15,920
Speaker 1: larger conversation about the absurdity of nuclear war and the

1969
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:19,040
Speaker 1: absurdity of any human being being put in these types

1970
01:50:19,080 --> 01:50:21,519
Speaker 1: of decision making scenarios. Because what happens at the end

1971
01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:24,920
Speaker 1: is we don't even see that Chicago actually gets blown up.

1972
01:50:25,240 --> 01:50:29,439
Speaker 1: There's a potential world where we could believe, maybe perhaps

1973
01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:33,519
Speaker 1: naively and optimistically, that Chicago actually doesn't get destroyed, even

1974
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:36,919
Speaker 1: because as we hear throughout that sometimes they misfire, sometimes

1975
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:41,080
Speaker 1: they're duds, but let's assume. Let's assume Chicago's hit because

1976
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:44,040
Speaker 1: that seems likely. And at the end, the closing image

1977
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:46,599
Speaker 1: we see is all the people who have been sent

1978
01:50:46,640 --> 01:50:47,679
Speaker 1: to Ravens Rock.

1979
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:48,040
Speaker 4: Is it?

1980
01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:50,880
Speaker 1: That's the place where that's the bumper, basically where the

1981
01:50:51,320 --> 01:50:55,320
Speaker 1: government is now going to be holed up. Raven's Rock

1982
01:50:55,479 --> 01:50:58,120
Speaker 1: is the place where the new government is going to

1983
01:50:58,160 --> 01:51:01,560
Speaker 1: have to operate. So we have to assume we're operating

1984
01:51:01,640 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 1: in a world where a decision has I suppose the

1985
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:09,000
Speaker 1: decision has had to have been made, but we don't

1986
01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:11,160
Speaker 1: know what the decision is. We don't know whether or

1987
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:14,000
Speaker 1: not we have we have struck, or whether or not

1988
01:51:15,280 --> 01:51:18,639
Speaker 1: others are more missiles are coming at us. So it's

1989
01:51:18,680 --> 01:51:21,680
Speaker 1: ambiguous in a way that Failsafe isn't ambiguous. And I

1990
01:51:21,680 --> 01:51:24,320
Speaker 1: guess I can applaud a good rug pole, but I

1991
01:51:24,360 --> 01:51:27,639
Speaker 1: actually think and it feels like a rug pole because

1992
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:31,840
Speaker 1: the movie has been building to a decision. You can't

1993
01:51:31,880 --> 01:51:34,439
Speaker 1: say the movie hasn't been building to it. It's decision.

1994
01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:37,360
Speaker 1: I think on some level Bigelow and Oppenheim must believe

1995
01:51:37,400 --> 01:51:41,160
Speaker 1: that structuring it the way they have and not having

1996
01:51:41,160 --> 01:51:44,760
Speaker 1: it actually chronologically build to a decision and to a

1997
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:48,360
Speaker 1: declaration or declarations of war that maybe they can get

1998
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:50,599
Speaker 1: away with the ending because they can, they can point

1999
01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:52,960
Speaker 1: to the structure as proof that, hey, it was never

2000
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:57,400
Speaker 1: about the payoff. It was always about the decision, the

2001
01:51:57,479 --> 01:52:01,360
Speaker 1: provoking a conversation around the decision, uminating on our tenuous

2002
01:52:01,400 --> 01:52:05,240
Speaker 1: reality and that absurdity of any human making a decision,

2003
01:52:05,280 --> 01:52:08,720
Speaker 1: because look, we're we're showing how they how they the process,

2004
01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:11,519
Speaker 1: that's what we're showing. It's not about it's not about

2005
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:14,360
Speaker 1: genre thrills, and we're going to show you an ending.

2006
01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:17,960
Speaker 1: But as as one character, you know, as one character

2007
01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:19,600
Speaker 1: in the movie says, it really comes down to this

2008
01:52:19,680 --> 01:52:24,760
Speaker 1: idea of of suicide and surrender, And so what they're

2009
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:26,720
Speaker 1: saying is we're not going to give you that that

2010
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:29,280
Speaker 1: choice happening at the end. But I kind of disagree, Josh,

2011
01:52:29,320 --> 01:52:33,400
Speaker 1: because actually that structure only amplified for me the importance

2012
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:37,760
Speaker 1: of seeing a character have to make actually have to

2013
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:42,280
Speaker 1: make that decision, the president have to make that crazy

2014
01:52:42,320 --> 01:52:46,480
Speaker 1: decision between suicide and surrender, like the president in Failsafe

2015
01:52:46,840 --> 01:52:50,240
Speaker 1: does have to make potentially have to accept and live

2016
01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:52,960
Speaker 1: with the consequences of that decision. And to see the

2017
01:52:53,000 --> 01:52:57,400
Speaker 1: movie speculate on then what what the fallout of that

2018
01:52:57,400 --> 01:52:59,000
Speaker 1: that is? I thought I thought it was a little

2019
01:52:59,000 --> 01:52:59,680
Speaker 1: bit of a cop out.

2020
01:52:59,680 --> 01:53:02,559
Speaker 2: Actually, okay, I can see that, And of course there's

2021
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:04,599
Speaker 2: no way of equating. I mean, Idris elba is fine

2022
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:06,439
Speaker 2: here as the president, but he's not Henry.

2023
01:53:06,320 --> 01:53:08,639
Speaker 1: Thinking Mighty less than fine, but he's not Henry Fonda

2024
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:09,000
Speaker 1: for sure.

2025
01:53:09,120 --> 01:53:09,200
Speaker 4: Ye.

2026
01:53:09,600 --> 01:53:15,479
Speaker 2: So there's this whole more personal dilemma that fail Safe

2027
01:53:15,520 --> 01:53:18,799
Speaker 2: has that House of Dynamite does not. And perhaps that's why,

2028
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:21,479
Speaker 2: which I think is to fail Safe credit, which is

2029
01:53:21,560 --> 01:53:24,200
Speaker 2: perhaps why you found it lacking here. The reason I

2030
01:53:24,320 --> 01:53:29,360
Speaker 2: didn't and you were essentially getting towards it is that

2031
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:33,519
Speaker 2: the bottom line to me point for both films is

2032
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:38,800
Speaker 2: that there is no right decision to make in this scenario.

2033
01:53:39,240 --> 01:53:44,080
Speaker 2: The decision has been made by humanity to proliferate nuclear

2034
01:53:44,200 --> 01:53:48,840
Speaker 2: arms or by particular countries, let's say. And so for me,

2035
01:53:50,280 --> 01:53:52,599
Speaker 2: the answer it would be almost more of a cop

2036
01:53:52,640 --> 01:53:55,799
Speaker 2: out for House of Dynamite to say, choose a decision

2037
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:59,680
Speaker 2: that might hint at the possibility that this was the

2038
01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:02,600
Speaker 2: right way to handle this situation. Again, going from my

2039
01:54:02,640 --> 01:54:04,559
Speaker 2: early frustration with the movie, I think the movie is

2040
01:54:04,600 --> 01:54:09,400
Speaker 2: all about how we can have millions of billions of

2041
01:54:09,400 --> 01:54:12,160
Speaker 2: dollars spent on this, we can have so many departments,

2042
01:54:12,400 --> 01:54:14,679
Speaker 2: so many people who are the smartest in the world,

2043
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:18,800
Speaker 2: and when you're dealing with the power like this, it's

2044
01:54:18,880 --> 01:54:20,439
Speaker 2: like the cat is out of the bag like that,

2045
01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:24,760
Speaker 2: there isn't a right decision. And so I think that

2046
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:30,480
Speaker 2: leaving us in that ambiguity is part of the movie's strength.

2047
01:54:30,760 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 2: In leaving us in that space sure.

2048
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:36,080
Speaker 1: That that is definitely what the movie is going for.

2049
01:54:36,160 --> 01:54:39,080
Speaker 1: And I do see, I mean, I do see that argument.

2050
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:42,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm on I'm obviously on the other side of

2051
01:54:42,680 --> 01:54:46,400
Speaker 1: it a little bit, a little bit more because what

2052
01:54:46,480 --> 01:54:50,240
Speaker 1: I struggle with to some extent is that the reality is,

2053
01:54:50,720 --> 01:54:53,280
Speaker 1: while all that's true, and you know, the movie War

2054
01:54:53,360 --> 01:54:55,800
Speaker 1: Games back in the eighties told us the answer that like,

2055
01:54:55,840 --> 01:54:59,560
Speaker 1: the only winning move is to not play the game, right, Yeah,

2056
01:54:59,640 --> 01:55:03,840
Speaker 1: we know, we know that, Okay, the reality is that

2057
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:08,000
Speaker 1: if this ever happens, someone will be making this choice.

2058
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,240
Speaker 1: There won't be a move to stop the movie. We

2059
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:14,280
Speaker 1: won't get to say let's get off the game, let's

2060
01:55:14,280 --> 01:55:17,400
Speaker 1: stop playing the game. And so that actually is the

2061
01:55:17,400 --> 01:55:21,520
Speaker 1: more interesting dilemma for me to see someone wrestle with

2062
01:55:21,640 --> 01:55:23,760
Speaker 1: is to actually not only wrestle with it, but then

2063
01:55:24,320 --> 01:55:26,960
Speaker 1: have to actually make the choice. I think the other

2064
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:31,200
Speaker 1: thing I'm thinking about with this film is what conversation

2065
01:55:31,400 --> 01:55:35,400
Speaker 1: are you provoking to some extent that hasn't been provoked

2066
01:55:36,280 --> 01:55:40,400
Speaker 1: and discussed so many times before. This dilemma of suicide

2067
01:55:40,800 --> 01:55:44,040
Speaker 1: or surrender has been true since the beginning of the

2068
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:47,120
Speaker 1: Cold War. That anxiety has been played out in films

2069
01:55:47,160 --> 01:55:50,520
Speaker 1: like Failsafe. The new wrinkle here. What's really fascinating, and

2070
01:55:50,600 --> 01:55:54,920
Speaker 1: this film does get into it, is that back then

2071
01:55:55,120 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 1: we at least knew that if a nuclear missile was

2072
01:55:57,080 --> 01:55:59,600
Speaker 1: coming at us, it only came from one place and

2073
01:55:59,640 --> 01:56:04,919
Speaker 1: only one enemy. And now we have nine nuclear armed countries,

2074
01:56:05,240 --> 01:56:07,040
Speaker 1: and there could be a scenario like this one in

2075
01:56:07,080 --> 01:56:09,200
Speaker 1: the movie where we don't even know who fired it.

2076
01:56:09,440 --> 01:56:12,000
Speaker 1: We don't know if some countries may be capable in

2077
01:56:12,040 --> 01:56:15,720
Speaker 1: a way that we weren't aware of, and that adds

2078
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:19,320
Speaker 1: to this kind of chaos and confusion and that element,

2079
01:56:19,440 --> 01:56:23,080
Speaker 1: then that new wrinkle that's added into the current state

2080
01:56:23,520 --> 01:56:28,520
Speaker 1: of nuclear geopolitics. I guess that to me actually could

2081
01:56:28,520 --> 01:56:30,520
Speaker 1: have been something really interesting for this movie to be

2082
01:56:30,520 --> 01:56:33,560
Speaker 1: about that. Obviously the movie's not about at all. Really,

2083
01:56:33,600 --> 01:56:36,040
Speaker 1: it's just part of the plot, but it's not really

2084
01:56:36,040 --> 01:56:36,920
Speaker 1: what the movie's about.

2085
01:56:37,240 --> 01:56:39,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a terrifying part of the plot. I mean,

2086
01:56:39,560 --> 01:56:41,640
Speaker 2: as you said, that new added element, you know, just

2087
01:56:41,840 --> 01:56:45,120
Speaker 2: gives me one more thing to be awake at night about.

2088
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:47,000
Speaker 2: I don't, you know. And as much as I don't

2089
01:56:47,120 --> 01:56:50,560
Speaker 2: enjoy that a movie will make me do that, I

2090
01:56:50,560 --> 01:56:54,640
Speaker 2: don't think there's any harm in having these conversations again

2091
01:56:54,680 --> 01:56:57,600
Speaker 2: and again, you know, And I totally get your point, Like,

2092
01:56:57,880 --> 01:57:00,840
Speaker 2: just having the president make the decision it makes it

2093
01:57:00,920 --> 01:57:05,440
Speaker 2: a more personal moral dilemma, which is easier as viewers

2094
01:57:05,440 --> 01:57:08,879
Speaker 2: to latch onto, and perhaps makes it a more engaging narrative.

2095
01:57:09,400 --> 01:57:12,280
Speaker 2: But in terms of what you know, both this and

2096
01:57:12,320 --> 01:57:15,680
Speaker 2: fail Safe are interested in, I think I'd rather go

2097
01:57:15,800 --> 01:57:19,560
Speaker 2: home deeply distressed about this. This is still it's been

2098
01:57:19,640 --> 01:57:22,520
Speaker 2: decades and decades, this is still a terrifying scenario to

2099
01:57:22,520 --> 01:57:26,280
Speaker 2: live with under. Then, you know, a fund fund quote

2100
01:57:26,320 --> 01:57:28,880
Speaker 2: unquote fund debate about whether the president's decision was the

2101
01:57:28,960 --> 01:57:31,080
Speaker 2: right one, Like, I think that would have brought the

2102
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:36,000
Speaker 2: concerns down to a very singular moral question, which would

2103
01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:39,960
Speaker 2: probably be interesting and reveal some things, but I think

2104
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:43,520
Speaker 2: it is the bigger conversation that House of Dynamite wants

2105
01:57:43,560 --> 01:57:46,320
Speaker 2: to have. Whether you feel there's much value in that,

2106
01:57:46,360 --> 01:57:47,040
Speaker 2: you know, may differ.

2107
01:57:47,080 --> 01:57:50,640
Speaker 1: Obviously, I see your point, and I don't necessarily disagree,

2108
01:57:50,640 --> 01:57:54,120
Speaker 1: but I would also say I still felt provoked the

2109
01:57:54,160 --> 01:57:56,040
Speaker 1: same way you're describing by fail safe.

2110
01:57:56,440 --> 01:57:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that for me up and down to Fonda, right, like,

2111
01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:00,880
Speaker 2: that's what Fonda does well.

2112
01:58:01,640 --> 01:58:05,520
Speaker 1: In contrast, Idris Elba really appreciate him as an actor.

2113
01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:09,160
Speaker 1: It seemed like the only decision he made for his

2114
01:58:09,240 --> 01:58:11,440
Speaker 1: character was to play exhausted.

2115
01:58:12,800 --> 01:58:14,640
Speaker 2: And not impressed with these performance Huh.

2116
01:58:14,680 --> 01:58:19,720
Speaker 1: No, sleepy, Sleepy isn't really, you know, a compelling choice

2117
01:58:19,800 --> 01:58:22,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to say, for a character. And that's that's

2118
01:58:22,280 --> 01:58:25,640
Speaker 1: all I really got, unfortunately, out of his president. After

2119
01:58:25,680 --> 01:58:30,200
Speaker 1: a brief limited run, House of Dynamite currently available exclusively

2120
01:58:30,400 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 1: on Netflix, Josh, that's our show.

2121
01:58:33,440 --> 01:58:35,520
Speaker 2: If you want to connect with us on social media,

2122
01:58:35,560 --> 01:58:38,840
Speaker 2: you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, on Facebook,

2123
01:58:39,280 --> 01:58:43,600
Speaker 2: on letterboxed, and on YouTube. At film spotting look for

2124
01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:46,000
Speaker 2: him there. You can find me at all those places.

2125
01:58:46,040 --> 01:58:51,160
Speaker 2: As Larsen on film we are independently produced and listener supported.

2126
01:58:51,280 --> 01:58:53,200
Speaker 2: If you want to be one of those listeners who

2127
01:58:53,280 --> 01:58:55,680
Speaker 2: supports us, you can do so by joining the Film

2128
01:58:55,760 --> 01:58:59,400
Speaker 2: Spotting Family at Filmspottingfamily dot com. You'll get to listen

2129
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:04,520
Speaker 2: early week. You'll also get ad free episodes. Sam's newsletter

2130
01:59:04,560 --> 01:59:07,480
Speaker 2: will come your way every week. And yes we do

2131
01:59:08,040 --> 01:59:10,840
Speaker 2: record monthly bonus episodes. We've got a new one coming

2132
01:59:10,920 --> 01:59:14,040
Speaker 2: up here pretty soon, a Tom Cruise draft that was

2133
01:59:14,160 --> 01:59:16,920
Speaker 2: very fun. Also, as a Film Spotting Family member, you

2134
01:59:16,920 --> 01:59:20,560
Speaker 2: get access to the entire show archive. Now. For show

2135
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:23,000
Speaker 2: t shirts and other merch you can go to film

2136
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:25,720
Speaker 2: spotting dot net slash shop.

2137
01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:28,600
Speaker 1: Speaking of that Film Spotting archive, would you believe and

2138
01:59:28,800 --> 01:59:30,840
Speaker 1: I mean I can believe it, there is not a

2139
01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:34,560
Speaker 1: single review of another Robert Zemeka's film over twenty years

2140
01:59:34,600 --> 01:59:38,440
Speaker 1: of doing the show. The only one I should say

2141
01:59:38,640 --> 01:59:44,000
Speaker 1: is Beowolf episode's kind of crazy. That's crazy, it is,

2142
01:59:44,080 --> 01:59:47,040
Speaker 1: but it's a different story entirely. I mean I was

2143
01:59:47,080 --> 01:59:49,120
Speaker 1: gonna say, look at some of the titles. I mean,

2144
01:59:49,320 --> 01:59:51,600
Speaker 1: Flight probably deserved a full review, but that was a

2145
01:59:51,640 --> 01:59:53,120
Speaker 1: movie that came out at the end of the year

2146
01:59:53,160 --> 01:59:55,680
Speaker 1: and it was just lumped into all the end of

2147
01:59:55,680 --> 01:59:59,440
Speaker 1: the year discussion link later a completely different story. Looking

2148
01:59:59,440 --> 02:00:03,720
Speaker 1: at twenty five to twenty twenty five, every movie has

2149
02:00:03,760 --> 02:00:07,160
Speaker 1: gotten some kind of in depth conversation except me and

2150
02:00:07,280 --> 02:00:09,440
Speaker 1: orson Wells and Last Flag Flying.

2151
02:00:09,480 --> 02:00:11,040
Speaker 2: So that's I think a lot of them have been

2152
02:00:11,040 --> 02:00:13,040
Speaker 2: reviewed at least twice on the show.

2153
02:00:13,200 --> 02:00:17,120
Speaker 1: Some of them have been discussed at least twice. Indeed,

2154
02:00:17,560 --> 02:00:20,560
Speaker 1: streaming or out vod this weekend, you could see Ballad

2155
02:00:20,600 --> 02:00:23,280
Speaker 1: of a Small Player on Netflix. I did see this

2156
02:00:23,440 --> 02:00:27,520
Speaker 1: Edward Berger movie with Colin Farrell. It's it's my first

2157
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:30,120
Speaker 1: disappointment from Edward Berger. I like All Quiet on the

2158
02:00:30,160 --> 02:00:33,480
Speaker 1: Western Front. I like Conclave, and you know, I equated

2159
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:37,680
Speaker 1: those two movies Josh's as films that were both about machinery,

2160
02:00:38,240 --> 02:00:40,680
Speaker 1: you know, about about the machinery of war and then

2161
02:00:40,720 --> 02:00:43,480
Speaker 1: the machinery of picking a pope, and I thought he

2162
02:00:43,600 --> 02:00:45,680
Speaker 1: documented those really well. And this this in a way,

2163
02:00:46,280 --> 02:00:49,960
Speaker 1: isn't about that. It picks up though on this this

2164
02:00:50,200 --> 02:00:54,320
Speaker 1: idea coming out of Conclave though about salvation and redemption

2165
02:00:54,880 --> 02:00:58,680
Speaker 1: in a very heavy in a very heavy handed way. Unfortunately,

2166
02:00:58,680 --> 02:01:02,160
Speaker 1: with Colin Ferrell's character as a poker player, it certainly

2167
02:01:02,240 --> 02:01:06,200
Speaker 1: is not subtle in his character being someone who through

2168
02:01:06,280 --> 02:01:09,920
Speaker 1: his poker playing, is he a character who can be redeemed.

2169
02:01:09,960 --> 02:01:12,640
Speaker 1: We'll see if any of you find it redeeming. I'd

2170
02:01:12,680 --> 02:01:16,000
Speaker 1: love to hear your thoughts. It is worth seeing, Josh.

2171
02:01:16,040 --> 02:01:18,360
Speaker 1: It's not one of those films I'm saying, like, skip it,

2172
02:01:18,680 --> 02:01:22,640
Speaker 1: especially on Netflix if you're looking for something to watch Visually.

2173
02:01:22,720 --> 02:01:24,920
Speaker 1: It's almost like one of those films where the contrast

2174
02:01:25,080 --> 02:01:28,600
Speaker 1: is turned up to a hundred to give it that

2175
02:01:28,600 --> 02:01:32,040
Speaker 1: that feeling of everything just being too vivid, you know,

2176
02:01:32,160 --> 02:01:35,240
Speaker 1: where where like the character's life is in is in

2177
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:38,480
Speaker 1: another dimension in some way, and then there's something interesting

2178
02:01:38,480 --> 02:01:41,839
Speaker 1: about that, like he's like he's in another realm, almost

2179
02:01:41,920 --> 02:01:45,240
Speaker 1: a purgatorial realm. So there's some interesting things going on

2180
02:01:45,360 --> 02:01:48,400
Speaker 1: with with that and with Ferrell's performance. But that's that's

2181
02:01:48,440 --> 02:01:51,160
Speaker 1: Ballad of a Small Player. I'm interested in Heda Nia

2182
02:01:51,240 --> 02:01:54,640
Speaker 1: Dacosta's adaptation of the Ibsen play with Tessa Thompson and

2183
02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:55,320
Speaker 1: Nina Haass.

2184
02:01:55,400 --> 02:01:57,800
Speaker 2: That's on. I hope we can maybe throw that one

2185
02:01:57,840 --> 02:01:59,440
Speaker 2: into the mix. Next week. We'll have to see.

2186
02:01:59,520 --> 02:01:59,960
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2187
02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:03,600
Speaker 1: Back to the Future re released of course, recommended by

2188
02:02:03,640 --> 02:02:08,440
Speaker 1: us Bogonia expanding next week we'll talk about Bogonia, Frankenstein,

2189
02:02:09,240 --> 02:02:12,640
Speaker 1: a few other movies as well. Jafar Panahi's It Was

2190
02:02:12,880 --> 02:02:15,840
Speaker 1: Just an Accident. Another film that's expanded us that I'm

2191
02:02:15,880 --> 02:02:16,680
Speaker 1: going to try to fit in.

2192
02:02:16,880 --> 02:02:19,680
Speaker 2: Let's throw that into the mix too. Film Spotting is

2193
02:02:19,720 --> 02:02:22,720
Speaker 2: produced by Golden Joe Dessou and Sam van Holgren. Without

2194
02:02:22,760 --> 02:02:26,000
Speaker 2: Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production

2195
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:29,920
Speaker 2: assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at wb

2196
02:02:30,080 --> 02:02:35,160
Speaker 2: eazy Chicago. More information is available at wbeazy dot org.

2197
02:02:35,360 --> 02:02:37,520
Speaker 2: For film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson.

2198
02:02:37,280 --> 02:02:39,280
Speaker 7: And I'm Adam mckempinar. Thanks for listening.

2199
02:02:39,440 --> 02:02:43,000
Speaker 3: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

2200
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:43,959
Speaker 6: But barn.

2201
02:03:00,320 --> 02:03:03,280
Speaker 1: Film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family

2202
02:03:03,320 --> 02:03:07,000
Speaker 1: at filmspottingfamily dot com and get access to ad free episodes,

2203
02:03:07,080 --> 02:03:10,280
Speaker 1: monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and, for the first time,

2204
02:03:10,360 --> 02:03:13,400
Speaker 1: all in one place, the entire film Spotting archive going

2205
02:03:13,440 --> 02:03:15,839
Speaker 1: back to two thousand and five. That's a Film Spotting

2206
02:03:15,880 --> 02:03:20,320
Speaker 1: Family dot com panibly