WEBVTT - Tech Rally and Tech Layoffs 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:06.880 From Mahard where Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:11.760 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:26.920 And Caroline Heind of Bloomberg's world headquarters in New York, 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:28.880 and I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.280 This is Bloomberg Technology coming up Apple. 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:32.800 It hits an intra day record. 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.640 The SMP closes in on its all time highs after 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.040 a dovish FED signal. What does it mean for the 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:38.600 tech rally? 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:43.200 We discussed plus as GM's cruise slashes twenty four percent 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:45.680 of its workforce. We'll talk the state of the tech 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.440 labor market as more than two hundred and fifty thousand 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.639 workers at tech companies of all sizes have been let 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:52.320 go this year. 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.840 Meanwhile, Adobe facing regulatory scrutiny and for the company subscription practices, 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.480 we'll take a look at the FTC investigation and why 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.480 the company AI ambissions well may take longer than expected. 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:06.520 The other big mover this morning is Intel. It has 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.200 given us details on its AI strategy. The stock up 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.120 three percent or two and a half percent now it 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.200 had been up as much as five and a half percent. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.600 You have new zeon server chips. Those chips have been 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.680 through two redesigns in the last year already. You also 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.319 have details around Goudi three, the AI accelerator. This is 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.280 the GPU CPU hybrid that basically is going to take 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.840 on in video's h one hundred. And you have Intel 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.440 with this fighting talk saying that Galdi three is going 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.319 to be as good, if not better than in videos 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:38.640 H one hundred, but it's nowhere to be seen yet, 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:40.880 doesn't come out until twenty twenty four, Caroline. But the 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.240 battleground for AI we were at AMD last week is 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:45.000 heating up now. 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:46.840 It really feels this end of the year as just 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.840 a florry to get as much of the innovation out 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:51.800 the door as they possibly can, to steal some of 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.600 the market share. The overall hype that there's been around AI, 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.800 and as you say, some fighting talk coming from Pat Gelsinger, 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.000 and they're like the Galdi three has the most approved, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.160 But ultimately how much of a win do you think 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.480 is the fact that they'll be more efficient with some 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:06.040 of these chips going to the data centers. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.880 What's interesting in Intel's case is that they basically are 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:11.920 saying the market's going to be so big there'll be 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.000 something for everyone. Arsn Vidia and AMD, but they're also 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.840 focusing on PCs. Remember that's their bread and butter. They're 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.880 the biggest PC processor maker. And we're increasingly talking about 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.920 on device right, the idea that the processing power of 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.200 our laptops and our phones needs to be able to 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:32.120 handle the inference side of a generative AI product. It 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.519 needs to have the compute to perform whether it's in 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:36.440 aeroplane mode or not. And that seems to be a 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:37.960 part of what Intel's discussing today. 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:39.600 And I think you're so right to say this is 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.359 about the rest of the ecosystem of chips. We keep 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.480 talking about H one hundreds and keep sort of talking 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.680 about the Gowdy threes, but there's an awful lot of 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.720 infrastructure play, an awful lot of other ultimately picks and shovers, 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:52.760 bolts and chips that need to go into all of 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:55.440 this to ensure that the AI becomes reality. Let's dig 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:56.880 into that a little bit more with our next guest, 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.079 ed Silvia Geblonski Ceocio Defiance ETS, who you know has 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.359 been coming off what is an extraordinary day in terms 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.880 of macro policy, and I'm interested if you can put 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.720 that onto the micro of whether or not technology and 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.640 the AI HiPE was still something to buy into at 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:11.200 these points. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.840 Absolutely, So you know, I think yesterday felt like Santa 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:16.160 Claus came to town a little bit. 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:16.360 Right. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.800 The market's like the outlook for next year, we're finally 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.000 done with ray hikes. I think, you know, we'll have 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.640 some restrictive policy, but at least no more kind of 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.040 like pounding on the gas to hike rates and you know, 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.200 kind of break the economy. So I think that sets 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.760 tech up very well. And I do think that the 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:32.960 next five to ten years of technology are going to 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:36.320 be super computing, quantum computing, and AI. And we've talked 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.200 so much this year about Navidia. You and I have 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.080 talked so much about Navidia and a MD this year, 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.040 and I think they're kind of the clear leaders and chips. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.280 But what I think will happen next year is now 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.840 all of the floodgates will open, So Intel's going to 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.240 come in, companies like ion cbe like IBM, and you know, 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:54.560 the bigger components around AI, like data processing, super computing 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.080 five G for the speed to make AI work will 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.400 all become tradable. Themes and you're going to start getting, 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.160 you know, beyond the magnific magnificent. 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:03.960 Seven for AI place. 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:08.280 What's interesting though, is how much the exuberance becomes real 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:09.040 revenue now. 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:10.440 And Vidia has managed to prove. 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:11.840 That point to certain extent, but I think of Adobe, 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:13.680 We're going to dig into that story later in the show. 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.440 But ultimately it's earnings not living up to the hype 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:18.279 in terms of how quickly it can turn it into 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.919 revenue into the bottom line. How much can an IBM, 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.640 how much can quantum computing finally becomes the sort of 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:24.240 revenue driver. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:25.599 Yeah, and that's a great point. 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.000 And I think what happened a little bit with AI 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.360 is that AI has been around for such a long time, 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.920 and there was a news flash around Microsoft this year 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:34.960 and then AI became kind of the word of the year. 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.520 But then it started to feel like a bubble and 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.760 people started to equate it to you know, memestock media 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.440 and you know, kind of kind of that world that happened, 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:44.720 and then it was kind of like thrown to the 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:46.760 side a little bit. But now it's back because to 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.440 your point, they're starting to show revenues. So I do 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.719 think that everyone who's sort of hitched the word AI 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:53.960 onto their wagon, is now going to have to prove 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.400 it in you know, Q one, Q two, probably actually 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.240 Q four as well earning. So I do think that 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.359 you're going to start that play out, and it is 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.000 super important for companies like IBM. So IBM is a 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.520 company that has a formed you know, quantum computer, and 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.960 they're actually working with companies like Cleveland Clinic to have 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.400 better outcomes and drug trials and things like this. So 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:15.840 quantum computing is now actually becoming more of a. 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.120 Reality and it exists. 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:18.880 Granted, you need a whole room the size of this 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:20.560 and a lot of air conditioners torovite it for a 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.160 process now, but it's there, right, So five to ten 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.159 years from now, you know, Sky's limit. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:32.480 Taking a look at the defiance quantum etf TICKA, qt M, 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.000 with which of course you are familiar, it's yours and 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.200 all of the names you've just mentioned are in there. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.800 What I find so interesting is how long does this 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:41.480 keep going? 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:41.960 Right? 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.679 You look at the performance year today up almost forty percent. 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.400 You have Lisa Sewer of AMD saying that the market 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.560 she saw as being one hundred and fifty billion dollars 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:52.640 just in August is actually going to be four hundred 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:54.480 billion in twenty twenty seven. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.000 How do you keep this going? It's been ridiculous. 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:00.880 Yeah, that's a great point. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.120 And I think what's interesting about you know, the CTF 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.200 and you know, some of the names I mentioned is IBM, 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.200 I ONQ, you know, Arabella. Some of the smaller types 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.440 of companies in this index are not companies that we're 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:14.720 talking about right now. We're talking about Microsoft. We're talking 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.839 about Google, Navidia, A m D, maybe a little bit 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.080 of other names in there. But what's going to happen 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:21.800 is that you have a whole lot of small cap 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:23.720 names in there. So you know, why aren't we up 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:25.960 two hundred percent? Where you're getting the performance of the 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.719 large caps, the small caps because of rates and you know, 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:32.280 kind of new to the scene types of conditions are 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.720 going to probably start to rally and pick up performance. 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:37.400 So I do think that this is going to ride 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.679 out as those smaller companies start to you know, generate 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.400 revenues and then are kind of cushioned by the Google 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.440 and the Microsoft might end up returning five to ten 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.920 percent next year and not you know, triple digit for 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.040 Navidias and things like that. So I think having that 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.240 well balanced mix of names you're not thinking about gives 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.600 it room to run Sylvie. 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.360 In the context of yesterday's FED meeting, the ECO data 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:03.000 we've had of late, how isolated is what's happening in 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:07.119 the AI industry for want of a better descriptor, from 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.280 what's actually happening in the global economy. 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:10.680 Yeah, So I. 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.160 Think I think that, you know, the AI industry is 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.080 kind of almost being you know, pigeonholed again into some 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.520 of the Magnificent seven and a couple of specific you know, 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:23.440 themes that are very sort of just like straight technology 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.400 focused AI data processing things like that, but we don't 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.120 really talk about, you know, the macro impact and how 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.560 you know that will play into what's going on. So, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.480 you know, first, the government is going to increase AI 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:36.960 spending by you know, billions of dollars next year, so 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.760 there's going to be sort of money going into AI, supercomputing, 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:43.400 artificial intelligence. The growth of AI is creating this need 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.600 for cloud and cybersecurity, so that's going to increase in 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.160 you know, kind of macro business spending and things like this. 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.440 And then I think just overall, you're finally going to 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.440 start talking about how AI impacts different sectors, you know, 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.720 healthcare for example, are we getting those better kind of 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.280 like drug outcomes, surgical proceeds, your outcomes, things like this. 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:03.200 So I think the story is going to change more 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.120 about how is AI making companies more efficient? And that 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.000 started a little bit with digitalization of factories for missing workers, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.240 but I think that'll really continue to play out. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.840 I'm interested in well Ed says, maybe the rally's been 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.000 ridiculous when it comes to AI. Some might have said 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.120 that crypto is starting to look a bit ridiculous again, 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.400 but it's managed to top out about shot forty five thousand. 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.120 There has been a rule in twenty twenty three? Will 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.640 that continue? Is that all about Matt Crow? Is there 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.240 anything it is in classic that you like that? Yeah? 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.679 So I think that there's a little more room to 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.400 run in crypto. And that's because I suspect I can't 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.440 predict the future. If I suspect that these approvals that 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.040 we've kind of longer waited for are probably going to 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:44.719 play out, and then you know, so you're just going 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.240 to have kind of a shift of assets and you know, 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.079 in some regard and new products are going to have 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.000 to buy more bitcoin to create themselves, so you know, 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.240 you'll really have that demand need. But then once that 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.560 comes out, now all of a sudden, these products become 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.040 more institutionalized, easier to trade, you get better spreads, you 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.040 don't have to worry about kind of futures, rolling contangle 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.040 or managing digital wallets. And then I think the efficiency 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.960 of all that starts to play out more. So, you know, 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:12.640 do I think it's going to double or triple? I 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.240 don't know, but I do think that there's some solid 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.640 runway left, particularly around that once we get that stamp 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.480 like this is approved, I think, you know, I think 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:21.400 bitcoin's going. 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:25.000 To run all lies on that spot Bitcoin ETF. Sylvia Jamansky, 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:26.599 who knows a thing or two about ets, she just 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:27.800 of course the defiance ETF. 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:29.319 And we thank you so much for being in the studio. 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.840 Ed all right. Coming up on the program, twenty twenty 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.679 three was a brutal year for tech workers. We're going 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.000 to be joined by the creator of the tech Layoffs 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.079 Tracker Layoffs dot FYI. 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:41.400 That's coming up next. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.040 Let's talk layoffs. Because Cruise, the autonomous vehicle unit of 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.280 General Motors, will lay off twenty four percent of its workforce. 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.760 Around nine hundred people, it'scording to a blog post by 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.680 the company. These layoffs come just one day after Cruise 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.200 also just missed nine of its top executives. Now, the 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.000 company has been trying to cut its costs in an 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.680 effort to revamp the company after, of course, that crucial 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.720 accident in which a Cruise card dragged a pedestrian in 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:14.960 October ed. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.520 Yeah, it's been a big story here in this city 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.280 and for that company and Cruises. Layoffs are just the 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.800 latest occurrence piling onto this year's wave of layoffs. 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:26.200 In the tech sector. 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.239 In total, more than two hundred and fifty thousand workers 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.280 at tech companies big and small have been let go 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:33.360 in twenty twenty three. 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:34.160 That's according to. 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.920 The job tracker Layoffs dot FYI. Let's bring in the 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.920 job trackers creator Roger Lee to dig into that data. 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.360 I think a good starting point is to ask, well, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.600 two hundred and fifty thousand, what does that look like 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.679 relative to prior years, prior periods of recession, prior periods 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:53.559 of economic pain. 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.960 Well, the number is very high, even compared to last 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.800 year when we first started seeing a wave of tech layoffs. 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.959 Twenty twenty three is the highest number that we've seen today. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.320 So two hundred fifty thousand tech employees have been laid 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.400 off so far this year. That's up from one hundred 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.720 and sixty five and twenty twenty two. And even in 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.760 twenty twenty, when we saw a wave of pandemic related 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:22.120 tech layoffs, that number was only about eighty thousand. So 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.600 this year has been the worst time in the past 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:26.520 few years. 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:31.959 What if anything to the companies that have done layoffs 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.280 and cuts got in common, be it their reasons for 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:39.120 doing so or their reaction into something. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.240 Well, the biggest reason for these tech layoffs has been 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.120 an over correction of the over hiring that they did 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.319 during the pandemic search. You know, back in twenty twenty 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.800 to twenty twenty one, we were in a very low 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:58.000 industrate environment. Tech companies were booming in demand from people 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.560 staying at home and turning to tech services more and more, 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.880 and so these companies are able to go on a 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.080 hiring spree and they invested aggressively in initiatives that were 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.640 respeculative or wouldn't payoff for several years. 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.480 Now, of course, the climate is entally different. 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.240 We're in a period of interest rate hikes, and so 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.400 that's causing these same companies now cut back and correct 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.040 for that over hiring from before. 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:24.080 Okay, so now we're in talk of cups. So does 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:25.000 twenty twenty. 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.360 Four mean we rectify that we see more exuberant, more 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.360 hiring or is it actually slower and more specific. 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:33.680 Like, yes, we'll hire, but only in AI. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.839 Yeah. Well, you know, after seeing actually some declines and 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.720 layoffs over the course of this year, the past two 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:46.120 months have marked an uptick in the tech layoffs and 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.600 I do expect that to carry over to early next 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.240 year because the year end is a natural time that 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.200 connoct a layoff as a coin science and annual budgeting. 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.840 So as companies in tech are taking stock of their 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.280 full year perform and are looking ahead to twenty twenty four, 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.960 they're finding our job cuts aren't necessary to improve profitability. 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.160 So I do expect. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.040 That this remains slow for the next few months, although 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.080 as we look ahead to the rest of twenty twenty four, 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.120 hopefully if interest rates do come down as is expected, 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.520 that would mean that the tech where they are will 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:23.199 finally subside Roger. 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.160 It's interesting, isn't it that much of the so called 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.800 silver lining when everyone was really talking about the big 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.480 cuts that were being executed. At the beginning of the year, 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.680 everyone was like, well, more startups will be formed, while 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:35.880 people will leave. They've got some cash in the bank 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:37.960 that we be able to start up some other companies. 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.560 Now it feels also that we're talking of well, technology 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.520 being necessary everywhere, particularly in the field of AI, and 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.000 people going into banking sectors, going into different industry groups 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:49.640 that need that sort of technology retail. 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.480 I mean there is an industry that it doesn't affect. 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.200 Are people leaving tech more broadly? 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:58.480 Yeah, you know, the rate of startupformation is affected because 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.520 fundraising is so hard to come by. We're in an era 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.280 now where the cost of capital is much higher than 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.120 in years past, and so startups are finding it harder 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.040 to raise money compared to before. And that does make 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.280 it harder for these late off tech employees to stay 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.960 in tech or to go start their own company. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:19.800 And so you are finding that. 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.520 More and more folks are going to other industries either, 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.840 you know, folks on the business side, like sales people 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.080 recruiters are leaving tech entirely because they can find better 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.480 roles in other industries. Since the tech downtern has not 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.920 broadly affected what's going on in the rest of the 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:40.680 economy where unemployment is still very, very favorable. And then 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.080 even engineers are also looking at other options too outside 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.200 of tech because of the reasons you said, tech is everywhere, 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.720 and they industry now has a need to invest in technology. 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:56.120 Yeah, Roger, I found it fascinating that the principal driver 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.360 is undoing the over exuberance of hiring from the pandemic 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.600 period about Caroline, But I just had this weird deja 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.640 vu because I felt like we told that story a 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:05.200 year ago. 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:06.680 Yeah, so why are these. 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.040 Companies doing cuts twelve months later on the same rationale. 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:11.320 Anyway, I just thought that was interesting. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.160 Yeah, and the pendulum and we hope doesn't swing completely 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.400 the other direction once more. Roger, lee'fraid we have to 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.200 leave it there, but thank you so much. Creator of 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:23.040 layoffs dot f Yi. French billionaire Vizant Belori, Well, he's 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.240 considering a split of the media and entertainment empire he 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.360 effectively controls Blue Meg. Sources say the breakup would allow 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.040 for the venue to split into several companies in order 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.320 to better take advantage of each unit's strength. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.080 Cheers. They've been searching on the hills of that report. 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:41.800 Edd Let's continue that story with Bloomberg's Benoir Bertilo out 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.160 in Paris. Go out to Paris with our correspondent who 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.920 in the last two hours has broken even more news 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.880 on the Vendi. Let's start with the basic premise of 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:52.760 what Vincen Belaure is doing here. 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:59.720 Yeah, a very unexpected move. Really announced late yes of 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:03.200 the that it would break up or explore the breaking 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:07.320 up of his company in three different units. That would 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.560 be one unit for PATV is building a sort of 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:16.240 Netflix like streaming service out of PATV operators across Europe, 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.640 so that's can help. Plus another unit would be the 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:24.320 ad group Avers. It's a good ad group valued between 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.640 two billion and three billion euros by investors, but it's 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:32.040 much smaller than Peers publicis WPP on income, So that 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.920 would be a stand alone company as well, both listed company, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.440 and that would be a third company, an investment company 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.640 holding the shares of various groups that the Boloy and 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:48.160 Vivandi group has, including La Gardeer, which is a publishing 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:53.480 giant encompassing the third book publisher in the world, which 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:58.160 is Ashet. It also has travel retail operations, so a 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.680 complete split of the group he tried to build for 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.880 the past decade would be explored now. 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:06.760 I mean volsobroken news. 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.199 So maybe he thinks about selling a steak in the 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:13.320 former poem Monopolia Italy Telecometalia. It's also fascinating and paint 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.560 a picture of Beloray for us, because what's so interesting 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:20.280 in your story is basically on the Puifontein. The CEO 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.159 of Ivandi almost doesn't get a mention here. This is 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.560 about a lot sort of a Rupot Murdoch figure of France. 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:33.159 Yeah, we've compared him to report Murdoc in the past, 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.679 is like him a media mogul, is pretty conservative in 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:42.240 the line of his media outlets. He's seventy one years old. 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.440 Officially he retired last year, so he's not the CEO 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.439 of all chairman of the groups we're talking about, but 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.720 he is said to be really calling the shots for 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.720 any big moves like this, and it's really the writing 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.280 on the walls. Being known as a corporate Rado has 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.560 made a lot of surprising moves with his companies. For 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.920 example the listing of Universal Group two years ago, which 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.600 really is sort of an inspiration for what's happening now. 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.160 So so yeah, is at the age of a try 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.439 of free daring. Clearly he has his two older sons, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:24.840 Sel and Yannique, both heads of Boloy and Vivandi. But clearly, 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.879 like it seems, he has a lot of some moves 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:28.439 still to. 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.240 Make all right. 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.600 Bloomberg's Ben wor Betterlow out in Paris on that story. 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:35.479 Coming up here on the program, we're gonna have all 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:40.600 the details on the FTC's probe into Adobe subscription cancelation rules. 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.040 Drives a lot to be mad I see on social media. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.479 We're gonna be joined by Tech Policy Institute's senior fellow, 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:49.800 Sarah o'lamb. That's coming up next from San Francisco. This 0:18:50.080 --> 0:19:12.040 is Bloomberg Technology. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology, Ed Lovelow. 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.000 In San Francisco, and Carolin Hyde right here in New York. 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:15.600 Let's get a check on these markets because we are 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:17.639 dictated by macro polls at the moment. We had the 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.880 Federal Reserve yesterday, of course, signaling that rake carts say 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:22.920 are to come in twenty twenty four. The retail sales 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.040 number also just showing the resilience of this US economy. 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:27.840 The fact that we saw not only three percent growth 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.600 in retail sales in November rather than a contraction who also 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:31.120 of course got. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.800 Jobless claims looking good. This is a strong economy. Do 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:34.639 we see a rotation? 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.440 Therefore, money is still going into the NASAC, though tentatively, 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:39.639 and this is the Nawstak one hundred. What's interesting is 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.520