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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a gorgeous young Pace University grad,

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Speaker 1: sets out in her four escape to meet her parents

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Speaker 1: at a Connecticut wedding, but somewhere along the way something

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Speaker 1: goes horribly wrong. She never makes it to the wedding,

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Speaker 1: her car abandoned. But no, Chelsea, good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 3: Hello, how are you doing. I'm okay, how are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing great? Are you doing all right? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I just just doing a photoshoot of the Glass soldiers and.

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Speaker 3: Got a little emotional crying. Okay, I got back on

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Speaker 3: the road. Yeah, okay, I'm just making sure someone called

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Speaker 3: it in song. Oh I'm sorry. Oh no, you're quite

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Speaker 3: all right. I mean I was just doing a photo shoot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, packed up.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to leave soon, okay. And I just didn't

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Speaker 3: want to jibe like that.

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Speaker 1: Sad you are hearing, Chelsea, that's Chelsea. What's happening in

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Speaker 1: this video is an officer sees Chelsea in her Ford escape. Part. Now,

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Speaker 1: Chelsea has a master's degree. She's a clinical psychologist, but

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Speaker 1: she's also a very very astute photographer, and she took

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Speaker 1: it upon herself. She was going to a photo shoot.

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Speaker 1: She was conducting a photo shoot about lost soldiers. And

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Speaker 1: here is this cute, cute girl sitting in a car

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Speaker 1: at the cemetery of soldiers and taking photos and she

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Speaker 1: starts crying, and a cop comes up and says, hey,

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Speaker 1: are you okay? And what's significant in my mind is

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Speaker 1: she's perfectly fine at that moment. For Pete's sake, a

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Speaker 1: cop asks her, Hey, okay, he's your car working. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to more.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: If you want somebody else to drive you, or if

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Speaker 5: you just want to hang out here for a little

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Speaker 5: bit longer, You're more than welcome to do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if it's okay, if I.

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Speaker 4: Hang out here for another like fifteen or twenty and

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Speaker 4: then head on the road, that would be my player.

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Speaker 5: I think, Yeah, I don't see any signs of a

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Speaker 5: pairment or anything like that, So yeah, I.

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Speaker 4: Know that's what I just I mean, with my with

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Speaker 4: my eyesight and then crying, it's not the best combination.

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Speaker 4: At night, I was like, I'm just gonna like cry

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Speaker 4: on the road or I'm just gonna sit here and cry.

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Speaker 3: So I got my dragon and I'm just oh, that's

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Speaker 3: FREAKINGCLUDI well, Rozzie think she's asleep? Wow, right on, she

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Speaker 3: got bored.

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Speaker 1: I'm listening to her. She's talking about Rozzie. Who is

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Speaker 1: her new pet. I think it's Komodo dragon. Look, So

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Speaker 1: she takes as a matter of fact, that's why she

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Speaker 1: was going to travel by car to the Connecticut wedding,

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Speaker 1: because the airline wouldn't let her leave Rosie the dragon.

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Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, my daughter Lucy has

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Speaker 1: a friend who is obsessed with this very type of pet,

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Speaker 1: and I don't understand the attraction to a reptile, but

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Speaker 1: apparently it's very common. So instead of taking a plane

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Speaker 1: and leaving the new pet behind, she wants to pet

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Speaker 1: with her on the way to the wedding. Hence she's driving.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to some more.

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Speaker 3: Do you have like a hotel around here or anything?

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I was actually thinking of just camping for the night,

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Speaker 4: but I wasn't really sure exactly yet.

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Speaker 5: Gotcha, Well, we didn't plan to be here till sunset. Okay,

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Speaker 5: you can't camp in the city limits. It's kind of

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Speaker 5: like a city statue we have you can always go.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if you can see like the yellow

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Speaker 5: lights over there at the loves, it's a truck or

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Speaker 5: stop in the gas station there.

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Speaker 3: You can just sleep there. Nobody will bother you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, right there, right there, I see trouble going to

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Speaker 1: a truck stop. A woman alone at not yet. I

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Speaker 1: don't like that. And the fact that she couldn't camp

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Speaker 1: in city limits. I understand that. But she's all alone

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Speaker 1: and thinks she's going to camp for the night somewhere

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Speaker 1: she's never been before and hasn't planned out. Guys, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about an absolutely precious young grad. She graduated Pace

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Speaker 1: University and is now a clinical psychologist, believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: got her master's degree, devoting her life to helping others.

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Speaker 1: She agrees to meet her mom and dad at a

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Speaker 1: Connecticut family wedding, and she never shows up. That's a

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Speaker 1: bearded dragon, not a Kimodo dragon. A bearded dragon joining

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Speaker 1: me and I'll start panel to make sense of what

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Speaker 1: we know right now, including my longtime friend and colleague

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Speaker 1: Mark Klass, who has devoted his life to helping to

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Speaker 1: find missing people. Before I go to Mark for his advice,

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Speaker 1: I want to go to Zarah Barker investigator report, Fox five,

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Speaker 1: San Diego zero. Thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about the decision to drive to the wedding

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Speaker 1: as opposed to taking a very simple flight. Now, listen,

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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. I just took a cross country

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Speaker 1: trip and an RV with my children. Okay, we ended

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Speaker 1: up in the Tetons and Yellowstone and we camped out

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Speaker 1: every night. But we had it planned, Sarah. I knew

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Speaker 1: what OURV camp, where we would stay at each stop.

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of it. I worked with Triple

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Speaker 1: A to get across country map, to figure out how

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Speaker 1: the hey I was going to do this, planned the menus,

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Speaker 1: what we would need to cook out on a Dutch

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Speaker 1: oven in a hole in the dirt every night. And

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Speaker 1: it worked. But this was impromptu, a sudden decision. Tell

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Speaker 1: me about that decision.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Nancy, it's been seven months since she was last

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Speaker 6: seen and we still have so many questions, including why

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Speaker 6: she actually made that decision to take this cross country

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Speaker 6: road trip by herself. I mean, this was a big trek.

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Speaker 6: This was twenty eight hundred miles from here in San Diego,

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Speaker 6: California to a family wedding. As you said, in Connecticut,

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Speaker 6: so we don't know exactly what her thought process was.

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Speaker 6: We do know that she had intended to fly in

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Speaker 6: the beginning, but she had newly acquired that pet, bearded

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Speaker 6: dragon named Rossi, and she couldn't fly with that animal.

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Speaker 6: So instead of flying and maybe leaving that pet with

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Speaker 6: a friend back home here in San Diego, she decided

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Speaker 6: to drive and make this twenty eight hundred mile trek

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Speaker 6: all by herself, which is where a lot of these

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Speaker 6: issues tend to arise.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I don't like, Mark klass and through

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Speaker 1: no fault of your own, Zarabet Marker. Somehow it sounds

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Speaker 1: like we're saying, Wow, it's her fault. She took a

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Speaker 1: twenty eight hundred trip across twenty eight hundred mile trip

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Speaker 1: across the country. It's not her fault. Yes, she made

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Speaker 1: that decision. But you know what, Mark, don't you ever

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Speaker 1: just get up to hear I mean, think about it,

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Speaker 1: Molly Tavis, Karina Vitronto, Eliza Fletcher, Women minding our own business,

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Speaker 1: out for a job, driving their car across the country.

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Speaker 1: How we end up target so much.

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Speaker 7: Well, it's a daunting trip and I think we'll all

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Speaker 7: agree with that. Going across country by yourself. It's not

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Speaker 7: even something that I would want to do as a man.

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Speaker 7: But something went down in Phoenix, and maybe in her head,

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Speaker 7: maybe she met somebody. I don't know the answer to that,

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Speaker 7: but something occurred in Phoenix. Unlike you, I don't think

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Speaker 7: that there was any problem with her camping by herself

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Speaker 7: at a truck stop. I've worked with the trucking industry

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Speaker 7: in the past, and I've dealt with truck stops in

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Speaker 7: the past, and they have a good safety record.

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Speaker 1: The last person and I want to tangle with right

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Speaker 1: now as Mark class, but let me direct you to

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Speaker 1: my most recent book, Don't Be a Victim. You ever

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Speaker 1: heard the name Israel Keys. He was a mass killer,

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Speaker 1: a serial killer who targeted people camping at RV stops,

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Speaker 1: at truck stops. It happens, and who gets targeted women,

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Speaker 1: That's who. And this is not about truckers. This is

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Speaker 1: about criminals. You know how many truckers have helped me

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Speaker 1: solve cases a thousand. This is not about them. This

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Speaker 1: is about a sudden decision not to continue driving and

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Speaker 1: to have an impromptu camp out. You don't even know

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Speaker 1: where where you're going to be, what the security is

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Speaker 1: I mean, okay, Gabby Chatino dispersed. Camping that spot wasn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily planned. She's dead, I mean to do. Let me

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Speaker 1: go to Justin Yenti's private instigator who has been working

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Speaker 1: with the grim family. That's Chelsea's family, also in the

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Speaker 1: Criminal Defense Investigators of Arizona at Arizona Investigative Associates. Justin,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Please save me from

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Speaker 1: a fight an argument with Mark klascause he's totally gonna win.

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Speaker 1: I already know that, but Justin to help. What what

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Speaker 1: does the tell me about the search? Hold on, Justin,

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Speaker 1: I've got a little more of Chelsea's voice and that night,

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Speaker 1: which is the closest thing I can get to Chelsea. Listen,

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Speaker 1: let's get.

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Speaker 5: Some good shots at sunrise too there, all right on, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: the sunrise here too. If you ever want to take

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Speaker 5: photoshoots like the statues in the morning, it's it's really

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Speaker 5: cool because the sun rises.

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Speaker 3: Right behind them. Amazing.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'll probably stay at the truck stuff then save

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Speaker 4: some money and then put them over for the sunrise.

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Speaker 3: You got it?

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Speaker 1: Cool?

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Speaker 3: All right? Well, yes, great time. I'm Blake. Thanks Blake,

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Speaker 3: we got it. Appreciate your good passion. You got it. See,

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Speaker 3: I just just hang out here, however all you want,

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Speaker 3: and you're gonna go.

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Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace Justin Yentez, private investigator working

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Speaker 1: with Chelsea's family. What were her movements after that? When

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Speaker 1: the cop says, hey, are you okay? Is your car okay?

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Speaker 1: Why are you here? And she's doing a photo shoot?

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Speaker 1: Very very talented? What were her movements after that?

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Speaker 2: So what we've done is compile somewhat of a timeline

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Speaker 2: based on what we can verify. We know that her

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Speaker 2: last phone activity was on nine twenty seven per ATMT.

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Speaker 2: She's at the video, She's on a video at the

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Speaker 2: motel on September twenty eighth, and then was on some

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Speaker 2: folks property later that day at twenty one hundred hours

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Speaker 2: at the Worthington's property. And so we're really trying to

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Speaker 2: arrowed down every verifiable movement that she had. Unfortunately, with

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Speaker 2: she was an AT and T subscriber, so when the

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Speaker 2: officers from Cocainino County sent an exigent circumstances request to

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Speaker 2: AT and T, they got less information than is provided

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Speaker 2: with other providers, for example, with with Verizon. If she

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Speaker 2: were to be with Verizon, we would have received a

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Speaker 2: list of the cell tower hits, the different panels that

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Speaker 2: it that it a cell phone had connected to. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: AT and T does not provide that in their their

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Speaker 2: exigen circumstances missing person's requests, So our ability to pinpoint

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Speaker 2: where she was at is limited to the videos that

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Speaker 2: that are on the internet and that have been shared,

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Speaker 2: these photos that that were on her camera, A couple

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Speaker 2: of folks that saw her vehicle, would the hunters that

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Speaker 2: were that were out and spoke with her and this officer.

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Speaker 2: So unfortunately we're limited into as to how much we

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Speaker 2: can we can actually verify of her movements from.

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Speaker 8: That point on.

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Speaker 1: Now, let me understand something about the AT and T issue.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying they don't have the data, that it

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Speaker 1: doesn't exist that other so phone carriers would have, or

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Speaker 1: that you can't get your mits on it, that it's

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Speaker 1: there but they haven't given it to you.

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Speaker 8: It's the latter. So generally, when you have a.

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Speaker 2: Crime that happened, the officers will get a search warrant

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Speaker 2: because they've got probable cause to do so. That didn't

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Speaker 2: happen in this case because there was according to the officers,

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Speaker 2: they had no probable cost to obtain a search warrant

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Speaker 2: to get the sell data records from AT and T,

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Speaker 2: and so all they were able to get were the

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Speaker 2: extent circumstances missing person files, which were very limited with

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Speaker 2: AT and T.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, what about when was that justin? When

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Speaker 1: when was that last attempt?

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Speaker 2: The last attempt to get these cell phone records from

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Speaker 2: AT and T was when it originally occurred. Now we

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Speaker 2: are in the process of you got a question there.

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Speaker 2: You seem mind blown.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I do, because many months have passed since then,

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Speaker 1: and I would speak logically that what may have been, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't have any evidence of wrongdoing, but

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Speaker 1: now her car's abandoned, she missed the wedding, nobody can

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Speaker 1: find her, or she's been gone for months. Wouldn't that

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Speaker 1: be probable cause to get full data to find her

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Speaker 1: last cell phone? Ping ding ding.

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Speaker 8: That's that's what I have have argued.

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Speaker 2: We've worked together with Cocainino County, with San Diego Police,

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Speaker 2: trying to build probable cause that the Cocadino County Sheriff's

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Speaker 2: Office would agree to present to a judge to get

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Speaker 2: a search for it. There's been differences of opinions on

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Speaker 2: whether or not cause exists. Those from San Diego felt

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Speaker 2: that it did. I felt that we had at least

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Speaker 2: enough to make an attempt. Cocanino disagreed. So we have

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Speaker 2: not been able to get a search warrant for those

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Speaker 2: self doubt cell records.

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Speaker 1: What is Cocanino County? Where is that?

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Speaker 2: That's where Flagstaff is located. It's right in that area

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Speaker 2: where Williams is.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Mark Klass joining me, this is a champion in victims' rights.

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Speaker 1: Mark class Well, that's completely bass Awkwards. She's been gone

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Speaker 1: this many months and Cocanino County authorities just saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we don't think we've got enough PC PROBA cause for

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Speaker 1: a warrant to get the self openings of all things.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you're breaking into somebody's house and tearing

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Speaker 1: them out of the bed. It's getting some documents from

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Speaker 1: AT and T.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's definitely information that can help the case one

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Speaker 7: way or another to be able to just track where

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Speaker 7: she went.

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Speaker 9: Chelsea Gramm is originally from Stamford, Connecticut, where she was

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Speaker 9: raised by her parents, Stephen and Janet grim. Chelsea attends

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Speaker 9: Pace University in New York, where she studies psychology and

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Speaker 9: graduates with a master's degree in social work. Putting her

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Speaker 9: degree to good use, she works for the New York

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Speaker 9: City Department of Education as a twelfth grade social worker.

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Speaker 9: Chelsea Grim heads to the West Coast, moving to Ocean Beach, California,

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Speaker 9: a beachfront neighborhood of San Diego.

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Speaker 1: She is a.

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Speaker 9: Licensed associate clinical social worker, photographer, and an artist.

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Speaker 10: Three days, Chelsea arrives in Phoenix, where she meets her

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Speaker 10: sister and a friend. Grim makes plans to meet this

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Speaker 10: same friend for lunch the next day, but cancels. Same day.

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Speaker 10: Chelsea Grim stops at a motel in Seligman, about one

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Speaker 10: hundred and sixty miles worth of Phoenix, where she tries

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Speaker 10: to book a room with euros instead of euros currency.

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Speaker 10: She mentions to the clerk wanting to be off grid

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Speaker 10: and asks if there's any places in town that would

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Speaker 10: exchange euros.

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Speaker 1: So this woman and this young woman a talented young

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Speaker 1: photographer planning to document her twenty eight hundred mile trip,

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Speaker 1: a road trip from her home in San Diego to

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Speaker 1: meet her parents and a family wedding all the way

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Speaker 1: across the country in Connecticut. She plans to take photos

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Speaker 1: all the way along that trip. What goes wrong, Her

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Speaker 1: fod escape is found abandoned. But no Chelsea. Now we're

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Speaker 1: hearing from our friends at crime Online that she's there

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Speaker 1: in this location one hundred and sixty miles north of Phoenix,

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Speaker 1: and she tries put him to book a room with Euros. Well,

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Speaker 1: of course that doesn't work. Zara Barker is joining US

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Fox five San Diego. Zarah, I'm still hung

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Speaker 1: up on the fact that neither San Diego nor a

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Speaker 1: Coconino County thinks there's enough probable cause to get a

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Speaker 1: wanant for her cell phone pings. Because if I had that,

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Speaker 1: I would know where she was last using her phone,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily that it even was used, where it was

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Speaker 1: paying before it went dad or was destroyed. Then I

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Speaker 1: could start looking for witnesses. I could start looking for

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Speaker 1: surveillance video stop like video businesses or business surveillance protection video.

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Speaker 1: But I can't do that because they don't have the

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Speaker 1: sale data.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, that is very shocking to hear.

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Speaker 12: You know.

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Speaker 6: In my reporting, I was in contact with both San

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Speaker 6: Diego Police and the Coconino County Sheriff's Department, and when

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Speaker 6: I contacted San Diego Police, they said this is a

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Speaker 6: Cocanino County case and SDPD could not even comment on

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Speaker 6: it in any capacity. So we don't exactly know the

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Speaker 6: extent of investigation that SDPD has been doing, but it's

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Speaker 6: clear that they're.

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Speaker 11: On board with even wanting this warrant.

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Speaker 6: So we don't know why Cocanino County is not wanting

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Speaker 6: to get this warrant, especially with it being seven months

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Speaker 6: since this has happened.

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Speaker 1: And joining me is doctor Leslie dos and clinical forensic

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Speaker 1: psychologists at doctor Leslie Doobson dot com. Her most recent book,

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Speaker 1: The Friend Cleands How to Set Boundaries with Energy Vampires.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Leslie, thank you for being with us, Doctor Leslie.

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Speaker 1: I got a question for you. It seems as if

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Speaker 1: many people, they may not come out and say it,

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Speaker 1: but they blame the victim for wearing a jogging bra

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Speaker 1: and then the victim ends up dead. It is somehow

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Speaker 1: connected to the jogging bra or wearing EarPods. Oh, it's

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Speaker 1: her fault. I would never do that, or go into

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Speaker 1: a restaurant or a bar by herself at ten o'clock

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Speaker 1: at night. What was she doing out at that time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we find a million reasons to somehow very

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Speaker 1: insidiously suggest it's her fault. Why is it her fault

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Speaker 1: this time? Because she her beard a dragon, we're crossing

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Speaker 1: the country there, she did it. It's her fault. That

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Speaker 1: would never happen to me. I wouldn't do that. Well,

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Speaker 1: I did do that, But what is it we so

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Speaker 1: desperately look for reasons to blame the victim.

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Speaker 12: I think a lot of us don't understand the mind

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Speaker 12: of the perpetrator, and so it's so easy to blame

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Speaker 12: the victim. But really, she may have been followed. We

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Speaker 12: have restraining orders. We have an ex boyfriend fiance too.

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Speaker 1: Justin yenttis private investigator who's working with the grim family.

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Speaker 1: What is this about ex boyfriends?

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Speaker 2: There were some some ex boyfriends that she'd had some

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Speaker 2: serious relationships that didn't end well. So we've we've been

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Speaker 2: in contact justice some of those folks.

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Speaker 1: Can't we all say that, can't we all have a

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Speaker 1: couple of exes we wish we had never met, but

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Speaker 1: we did. So what are they murdered?

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Speaker 8: For sure?

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that there that anyone's really a murder suspect.

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Speaker 8: At this time.

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Speaker 2: We're just you know, our agency was brought on several

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Speaker 2: months ago to put new eyes on this, and so

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Speaker 2: we started looking at all of the areas with the

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Speaker 2: attempt to not focus on what had already been done

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Speaker 2: or what the obvious resolution or circumstances.

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Speaker 8: May have been.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me about the boyfriend?

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Speaker 8: Not a whole lot at this at this point.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Well, isn't it true that from what I understand,

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Speaker 1: I'll go to Zera Barker on this Fox five. Isn't

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Speaker 1: it true that the ex was nowhere near where she

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Speaker 1: was at the time she went missing.

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Speaker 6: That's what we had heard as well. But again, we

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Speaker 6: couldn't even get in touch with any of her friends

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Speaker 6: or ex boyfriends, especially anyone here locally in San Diego.

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Speaker 6: And I think part of that is because she had

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Speaker 6: actually moved to San Diego Ocean Beach during the pandemics.

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Speaker 6: We don't know exactly how well connected she was with

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Speaker 6: our local community here.

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Speaker 1: Justin Yantez investigator and working with the Grim family. Are

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Speaker 1: you or anyone in her family aware of a boyfriend

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Speaker 1: and her new residence. Yes, yes, we are, okay, And

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Speaker 1: isn't it true that that particular boyfriend was nowhere near

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Speaker 1: where she was when she went missing.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, that is the information that we currently have. That's correct.

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Speaker 1: She's on a road trip, she's crossing the country. He's

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Speaker 1: not following behind her. And I think, let me just

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Speaker 1: go out on a limb here that he has been excluded.

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Speaker 1: He was nowhere near her at the time she goes missing.

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Speaker 1: So where does that leave me? Joining me is Andrew Stoltman,

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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Chicago, a law professor at

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Speaker 1: Northwestern University and co author of an incredible but waging

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Speaker 1: War on Wall Street. My battles suing banks and broke

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Speaker 1: wish firms will if you can take on a bank. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I need to talk to you off camera, Andrew Stoltman,

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Speaker 1: Let me talk to you about this case. When I immediately

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Speaker 1: ask about the boyfriend, that's synonymous with every boyfriend, ex

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Speaker 1: ex husband in every case ever. Because isn't it true

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Speaker 1: that when someone goes missing or is harmed or killed,

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Speaker 1: the first place you look is within the family, the

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Speaker 1: nuclear family, and then you start moving out, including ex'es,

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Speaker 1: long time exes, all the way back as far as

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Speaker 1: you can go. Because random crimes don't happen as often

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Speaker 1: as targeted crimes, in other words, by someone that knows

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Speaker 1: you or think they know you.

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Speaker 13: Nancy, you and I know that, but it's amazing how

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Speaker 13: many times the boyfriend or the girlfriend who perpetrated.

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Speaker 8: The crime doesn't know that.

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Speaker 13: That is always the first person that the police would

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Speaker 13: look at. And I think that might be one of

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Speaker 13: the flaws in this case, and I think that might

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Speaker 13: be one of the reasons why the police haven't solved

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Speaker 13: this case yet. They've said from the very beginning that

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Speaker 13: they don't think this case involves foul play, and that

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Speaker 13: might be a little bit of a rush to judgment.

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Speaker 13: And my concern is the police have that perception that

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Speaker 13: no foul play was an issue, and their entire investigation

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Speaker 13: has therefore been seen through that straw of no foul play.

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Speaker 13: That might be a mistake. It might be a rush

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Speaker 13: to judgment by the police.

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Speaker 10: From a motel in Seligman, Arizona, Chelsea calls her parents

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Speaker 10: and tells them she can't make it to Connecticut on

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Speaker 10: time for the wedding. The trip is taking too long.

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Speaker 10: She tells them she's going to camp out nearby for

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Speaker 10: a couple of days and then head back home to

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Speaker 10: San Diego. The next day, September twenty eight, Chelsea Grim

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Speaker 10: leaves the motel and heads forty miles east to a

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Speaker 10: war memorial cemetery in Williams, Arizona. Williams police are alerted

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Speaker 10: to a suspicious vehicle, and when the officer checks, he

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Speaker 10: finds Chelsea Grimm seated in her car crying. She tells

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Speaker 10: the officer she gets emotional taking photos for a lost

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Speaker 10: Soldier project and didn't want to drive while crying. The

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Speaker 10: officer spends nearly nine minutes with Grim and asks if

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Speaker 10: she has a hotel room for the night. She says

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Speaker 10: she's going to camp, and the officer directs her to

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Speaker 10: not camp in the city, but she can sleep at

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Speaker 10: Love's truck stop nearby. He tells her she won't be

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Speaker 10: bothered there.

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Speaker 1: Straight back out to high profile lawyer and as a

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Speaker 1: law professor of Northwestern University, Andrew Stoleman, I believe I

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Speaker 1: heard you use my old co anchor, Johnny Cochran's phrase,

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Speaker 1: and of course that's making me mad right there. But

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Speaker 1: I believe you said there was a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a rush to judgment. She was reported missing in October.

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Speaker 1: That's not a rush. In fact, I feel like this

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Speaker 1: padel Mark, Andrew, doctor Leslie, Justin and Zara are the

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Speaker 1: only ones seem to feel any sense of urgency along

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Speaker 1: with her parents. Why hasn't the Coconino County SHAREFFS issued

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Speaker 1: a warrant, a search warrant for AT and T to

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Speaker 1: hand over the cell phone beings. This isn't a rush

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Speaker 1: to judgment. Yes, they were wrong at the get go

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Speaker 1: saying there was no foul play. There is foul play.

436
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: Something has happened to this girl. What rush to judgment

437
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: are you talking about?

438
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 13: Well, I think the perception was no crime was committed.

439
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 13: But you see there were two shredded tires on her vehicle. Now,

440
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 13: I've got a lot of flat tires over the years,

441
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 13: but I've never had two at the same time.

442
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 8: So these these are This is.

443
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 13: A rural county with presumably rural police officers. How competent

444
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 13: are they, how good are they? We don't know, but

445
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 13: it sure seems like a rush to be well.

446
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: Hold on just a moment another thing, Andrew Stultman, you

447
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 1: may be a professor there at Northwestern University, but I

448
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: am from rural Georgia, in the middle of nothing but

449
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: pine trees and soybean fields, and I can tell you

450
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: those sheriffs and cops are some of the most dedicated

451
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: people I've ever seen. However, I do agree with you

452
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: in the fact that they don't handle a lot of

453
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: homicides or kidnaps, so their perception may be different from

454
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: big city law enforcement that handles it every day. And

455
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: you said something that really sticks in my mind, Mark

456
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: Klass joining me. He has dedicated his life to helping

457
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: fine missing people, help solve unsolved homicides after his daughter

458
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: Polly was kidnapped and murdered. Mark, did you hear when

459
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: Andrew Stolton said shredded. I don't know if he meant

460
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: to say it, but he's right, shredded. It's not like

461
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: you get a nail or a piece of glass in

462
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: your tire and you have a slow leak or you

463
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: have a flat two tires shredded, shredded? What does that

464
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: mean to you, Mark, Well, I'll tell you.

465
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 7: I'll tell you what everything means to me is that

466
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 7: it looks to me like there's been an incompetent investigation.

467
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 7: And if I were the young woman's parents, the first

468
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 7: thing I would do, and I would do this immediately

469
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 7: today this moment is contact the FBI and ask them

470
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 7: to get involved in sight all of the things that

471
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 7: we've been talking about, all of the reasons that this

472
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 7: has not been handled well, all of the reasons that

473
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 7: this is a critical moment for this young lady, and

474
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 7: try to really get down to the bottom of it

475
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 7: and get answers. That's exactly what I did in Paulice case.

476
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 7: I contacted the FBI because I thought they have the resources,

477
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 7: they have the knowledge, they have the manpower, they can

478
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 7: move forward with this investigation in a way that locals

479
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 7: cannot do. Plus they have the resources, So that is

480
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 7: exactly where I would go with this. Right now, it

481
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 7: just seems to me there are way too many red

482
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 7: flags and way too many unanswered questions. Seven months down

483
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 7: the line.

484
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: You know Andrew Sualtman joining US high profile lawyer out

485
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: of Chicago, professor Northwestern University and author Andrew I don't

486
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: like the FEDS, and I was a FED for three years,

487
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: but I can tell you this, the FBI, they know

488
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: what they're doing. The US Marshall Service, yeah, I've got

489
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: nothing on them. You see the FBI pick at the

490
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: year trash in the backyard. You might as well go

491
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: ahead and plead guilty. He's right, why not call in

492
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: the FBI? She's clearly cross state boundaries. Not that we

493
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: really need that, but why not?

494
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 13: I don't know the answer that sometimes there's a jurisdictional

495
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 13: war between local police officers in a rural.

496
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 8: County like this and the FBI.

497
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 13: And look, Nancy, I'm from Wisconsin, so I'm from rural

498
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 13: a rural state. But I just don't think these police

499
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 13: officers have much experience in this area with respect to

500
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 13: potentially a murder investigation or potential miss in person investigation.

501
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 8: I think they are in over their heads.

502
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 9: Two days after talking to the police officer in Williams, Arizona,

503
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 9: Chelsea Grim finds herself nineteen miles west of Williams in

504
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 9: the town of ash Fork, Arizona. She has been camping

505
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 9: out in her Ford Focus SUV. A local woodcutter sees

506
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 9: Grim and says she does not seem in distress or

507
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 9: in need of any help. It's September thirtieth. The woodcutter

508
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 9: in ash Fork, Arizona is the last person to see

509
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 9: Chelsea Gram.

510
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 14: Chelsea Gram tells her parents she might not have good

511
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 14: cell service while she's out camping, but when they don't

512
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 14: hear from her for several days, her parents reporter missing

513
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 14: on October fourth. The next day, Chelsea Gram's twenty nineteen

514
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 14: white Ford Focus SUV is found abandoned on the side

515
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 14: of the road with two flat tires by hunters in

516
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 14: the middle of Forest Service Road six in the Kaibud

517
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 14: National Forest, northeast of ash Fork, Arizona. Inside the locked vehicle,

518
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 14: all of Chelsea Gram's personal belongings, such as her wallet,

519
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 14: driver's license, clothes and sleeping bag, and her bearded dragon

520
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 14: rows are gone. Police say there's no evidence of foul play.

521
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace two justin Yentiz joining us

522
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: respected and private investigator working with the Grim family. You

523
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: were responding to, Andrew correct, What were you saying?

524
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 8: I was? I was.

525
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: There was some discussion about the FBI, and when we

526
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: first got this case, I started going through the original

527
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: information that had come in from tips and leads from

528
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: the folks out there that had seen this issue on

529
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: the news. There were some ransom texts and messages that

530
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: had come in, and that's what I felt was our

531
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: best chance of establishing probable cause to get the FBI

532
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: involved to get some federal court orders or search warrants

533
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: or whatever it would take to go after AT and

534
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: T to get their self on the Celtewer data. When

535
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: the FBI, so, I'll back up their Cocinino, excuse me,

536
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: So I wrote a search war an affidavit for that

537
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: using the ransom and the kidnapping as my crime. Presented

538
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: that to Cocanino, and then found out that they had

539
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: had a conversation with the FBI previously and they had

540
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 2: reviewed the ransom requests that had come in and determined,

541
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: based on their training and experience, that these ransom requests

542
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: were bogus, so they did not feel that they were

543
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 2: of value or indicative of a crime occurring. That information

544
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: then went back to Cocanino, and so the sheriff's office

545
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: felt that when disclosing the fact that the FBI had

546
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: made a determination on the validity or lack thereof of

547
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: these ransom requests, that that would have to be turned

548
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: over to a judge in an affidavit, and that we

549
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: did not based on the FBI's findings, we did not

550
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: have probable cause to seek search warrants based on a

551
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: kidnapping belief or suspicion.

552
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: I got a question for you. Tell me about the

553
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: ransom notes.

554
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: There were a couple of messages that came in I

555
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: believe on Facebook or WhatsApp to one of the tip

556
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: lines and demanded money. And that's about what. That's about

557
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: what I know about them. They were sent off to

558
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: the FBI. We are not in possession of any reports

559
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: from the FBI.

560
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: Well, what did this What did the ransom requests say?

561
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: Something along the lines of requesting money for her safe return.

562
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: So asking for money for her safe return, and that

563
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: was that was directed to just basically a tip line

564
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: or an online forum.

565
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: It came in on one of our sources via I

566
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: believe a Facebook message or what's that message?

567
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: Was there anything in the ransom request to indicate special

568
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: knowledge about Chelsea, like where she was, the name of

569
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: her bearded dragon, something that only the kidnapper would know?

570
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: There was, and perhaps that was part of the determination

571
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: that the FBI made to invalidate the request. Getting information

572
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: out of an ongoing investigation from the feds's is next

573
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 2: to impossible.

574
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: To Zarah Barker, joining US investigative reporter Fox five San Diego,

575
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: so Chelsea tells her parents she may not have good

576
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: sales service while she's camping. They don't hear from her

577
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: for several days, and her parents report her missing October four.

578
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: I want to get back to the shredded tires. If

579
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: anyone can tell me about the shredded tires. I want

580
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: to hear about that because that sounds intentional, like they

581
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: were cut with a knife.

582
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 11: Yeah, it definitely does.

583
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 6: And one thing I want to point out too is

584
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 6: obviously those tires were flat or shredded, whatever the case was,

585
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 6: that vehicle was not drivable, so at that time she

586
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 6: had no choice but to leave that car. What we

587
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 6: don't know is where did she go and did she

588
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 6: go with somebody? I mean, Ashbork, Arizona, where her vehicle

589
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 6: was found, was not a very populated area. There's less

590
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 6: than five hundred people that live in ash Fork, Arizona.

591
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 11: You wouldn't seem to think.

592
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 6: At this time that they all know who Chelsea Grimm

593
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 6: is and have been keeping an eye out for her.

594
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 6: Somebody there has to know something because she left her

595
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 6: vehicle on her own volition.

596
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: I'm curious about the shredded tires. To me, that suggests

597
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: that it was done on purpose, not that she just

598
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: ran over a knife. Excuse me, ran over a nail

599
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: or a piece of glass, and as Andrew Stoltman pointed out,

600
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: one but two of them, the car left basically undrivable.

601
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: But we do know this. Two days after talking to

602
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: the police officer in Williams, Arizona, she's nineteen miles west

603
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: in ash Fork, Arizona, camping in her ford SUV. A

604
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 1: local woodcutter sees Chelsea and speaks to her. Question to you, Zarah,

605
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: what does she say to the timber guy?

606
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 6: That conversation has not been made public yet, and we're

607
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 6: not even sure exactly what police have released from that.

608
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 6: So Coconino County are the ones who are investigating that

609
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 6: part of this situation, and that conversation.

610
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 11: Has not been made public yet to our knowledge, what.

611
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: Do we know about it? Justin Yantes, Well, I want.

612
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: To be cautious in what information I do put out

613
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 2: there right now. There are a lot of folks that

614
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: have been working on this case from around the country,

615
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: both as a part of our team and also an

616
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 2: army of volunteer investigators that are providing tips, and I'm

617
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: somewhat hesitant to put out information that hasn't been already

618
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: disclosed to the community.

619
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: I'm trying to help find Chelsea. Did she reveal anything

620
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: in the conversation that would be any help.

621
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: That I've been made aware of? But I will provide

622
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: that with a caveat that we do have several investigative

623
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: teams working on this matter, and the direct interviews have

624
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: been handled by some other folks that are in our network.

625
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 9: The area where Chelsea Grimm's locked suv is found is

626
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 9: an area popular with hunters and loggers. An extensive search

627
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 9: was conducted of a three mile radius around where her.

628
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: Car was discovered.

629
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 9: Her family believes that, due to the intensity of the search,

630
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 9: if Chelsea was in the area, she would have been found.

631
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 9: Hunters and loggers in the area also strongly believe she

632
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 9: is not in the area. Chelsea Grimm's family hires a

633
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 9: private investor, Kelly Townsend, to help with the case.

634
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: Guys, we have an all star panel to make sense

635
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: of what we know right now. But I'd like to

636
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 1: point out that another young woman, a beautiful young woman,

637
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: Shana Feinneman, also goes missing very close to where Chelsea

638
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: goes missing. Now, why is that two young women and

639
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: the same general area. The similarities between the two cases

640
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: are amazing. Two women missing in the Arizona area, both

641
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: nature lovers, both seemingly disappear, leaving their vehicle behind, leaving

642
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: their pets, one leaving their pet behind. I'm just trying

643
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: to figure out what, if any, is the connection between

644
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: Shana Feynman and Chelsea Grimm. Chelsea's lot SUV found in

645
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: a very popular area, an area popular for hunters. Shana

646
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: goes missing in a very wooded and rural area as well.

647
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: Why and have authorities thought of linking the two? Andrew

648
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: Stoltman joining US high profile lawyer out of Chicago. What

649
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: do you make of it? Andrew?

650
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 8: That's outrageous.

651
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 13: That's a data point that I wasn't aware of. I

652
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 13: think these police need to speak to all five hundred

653
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 13: people in this rural community and operate off the assumption

654
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 13: that there's a pattern, that there might be there might

655
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 13: be a serial killer, there might be somebody out there

656
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 13: who has abducted both of these women. And when they

657
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 13: rush to judgment and they say, gee, we don't think

658
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 13: it's foul play, they should be talking all five hundred

659
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 13: of these people that are anywhere near this car to

660
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 13: get to the bottom to see if we have a

661
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 13: serial killer or a pattern with respect to these two disappearances.

662
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: Mark Class jump in what do you believe that the

663
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: parents of Chelsea need to be doing right now?

664
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 8: And I agree with.

665
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 7: What Andrews said one hundred percent. There is nothing but

666
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 7: unanswered questions here. What's going on with the tires? The

667
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 7: police aren't saying anything. Was they would Cutter investigated. He

668
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 7: was the last person that saw her. We know nothing

669
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 7: about that. It's just like everything went down into a

670
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 7: rat hole. I think the parents need to get over

671
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 7: need to get over their shyness and contact the FBI

672
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 7: and demand that they get involved, because it totally seems

673
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 7: like this investigation is in the hands of incompetence. Otherwise

674
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 7: the sheriff would be on this program right now explaining

675
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 7: himself and I just don't see him here.

676
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:45,959
Speaker 1: Yeah. Isn't that unusual because typically LA law enforcement come

677
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 1: on the air with us to help publicize and garner

678
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: retention from missing people. That's not happening here. Why as

679
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: far as the parents go, what do you believe they

680
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: need to be doing? Mark Class? Because you're the goalt, well,

681
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: they have to be proactive.

682
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 8: I mean it's their daughter.

683
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 7: She needs them now more than she's ever needed them before.

684
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 7: And to just say well, I'm too shy, I can't

685
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 7: do this, I can't do that.

686
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 8: You have to do it.

687
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 7: You have to find the strength. You have to go

688
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 7: before the cameras. You have to contact the FBI and

689
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 7: demand that they get involved in a case that's gone

690
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 7: absolutely nowhere in seven months, because without that advocacy, they

691
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 7: might never have the answers that they so desperately seek.

692
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the

693
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 1: disappearance of Chelsea Graham, call nine two eight seven seven

694
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: four four five two three Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,