1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. Our 5 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: friend Noel is on some adventures. As we record today, 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: they call me Ben. We are joined with our guest 7 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: super producer Ramsey Ram Jams junt So say hello to 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: him when you get the chance. Most importantly, let's talk 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: about you. You are here. You are you that makes 10 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. I really 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: thought he was talking about me that time, because he 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: looked right at me when he said it. The show, 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: the show would be nothing without you met as numerous 14 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: Apple Music or Apple podcast reviews have a short oh really, Well, 15 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true, but I agree with it. Well, 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: you know what, none of us would be who we 17 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: are today if we didn't have a certain playwright, a 18 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: man that we all call back to, that we all 19 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: imagine as perhaps the father of plays, the father of plays. 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: At least when I was growing up, I always imagine 21 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: him as like the one, the one from which all 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: other plays that I was reading, kind of sprung from, 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: or at least we're we're heavily influenced by. He's the 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: most well known. That's that's a fact. We are talking 25 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: a fellow conspiracy realists about Shakespeare, William Shakespeare from Stratford 26 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: on Avon. Do you did you ever act in Shakespearean production? 27 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: I was never in a full on production. I did 28 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: many a scene, yes, yes, what my favorite, I would 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: have to say, came from the Tempest and it included 30 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: just a line that has really influenced my whole life. 31 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: I think, what is it? I might paraphrase here, but 32 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: it is Hell is empty and all the devils are here, 33 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: or something to this effect, because all the devils here. 34 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly his language, but I know the 35 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: paraphrase the paraphrases enough to to convincingly take us to 36 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: that line. Yeah. I did some Shakespeare stuff as well 37 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: in high school and early college, I believe. But past 38 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: is a watercolor in the rain, you know, things blur. 39 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: I'm still pretty sure it happened today. Playwright William Shakespeare 40 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: is widely acknowledged as one of, if not the most 41 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: influential writers in the English language. His plays have been 42 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: read or performed whether in part or a whole, numerous points, 43 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: millions of times across the planet over centuries. Yeah, people 44 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: are reading this, they're performing parts of it, they're performing 45 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: entire productions. Here in Atlanta, where this podcast is based, 46 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: there's the Shakespeare Tavern, which we could convention a little 47 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: bit later. I just want to drop that seed here. 48 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: Shakespeare was also quite prolific between about fifteen ninety and 49 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: sixteen thirteen. Uh, he wrote at least thirty seven plays, 50 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: collaborated on several more. But who was this man? Who 51 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: was Willie Shakes? Really? No, we're just gonna go ahead 52 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: and push this little button. That's I don't know who 53 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: left this button here, but let's just let's press it 54 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: and see what happens. Hey, guys, I heard you were 55 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: asking who Shakespeare was, Jonathan, That's what the button was. 56 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Strickland, Yeah yeah, marked out Quister because the 57 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: same Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I actually have the honor 58 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: Maybe honor is too strong a word to to be 59 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: playing William Shakespeare at the two thousand nineteen Georgia Renaissance Festival. So, 60 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: as you might imagine, I have done my fair share 61 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: of research into this subject. And there's a lot of 62 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: stuff I could tell you, but I feel like to 63 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: really get a grasp on why William Shakespeare is this 64 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: person we we still talk about four hundred years after 65 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: he last wrote anything. I want to recite to you 66 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: one of the most famous speeches from Shakespeare. And there's 67 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: tons right, there's to be or not to be. There's 68 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: two two solid flesh. Those are two speeches about suicide 69 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: for the same play. It's a famous Shakespeare's But no, 70 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to recite to you one of my favorite 71 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: speeches in all of Shakespeare's from the History of Henry 72 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: the Five, and it's called the Crispin's Day speech. And 73 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: this is to set the scene. The English army is 74 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: in France. They are outnumbered five to one. They have 75 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: been spending the entire previous day marching, so they're exhausted, 76 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: whereas the French troops are fresh, and just as the 77 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: lords of England are are looking out and they're feeling 78 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: a sense of dread. They're talking with one another about 79 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: what is to come. And one of them, Westmoreland, says 80 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: that he wishes that just ten thousand more Englishmen, who 81 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: are otherwise laying in bed back in England, had joined them, 82 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: and the king happens to overhear him. And so this 83 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: is that's to set the scene. Here's the speech, Paul. 84 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: Could we uh, Paul Ramsay, could we get maybe a 85 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: nice sound design, some rousing music. Yeah, what's he that 86 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: wishes so my cousin, Westmorland. No, my fair cousin, if 87 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: we are mocked to die, we are enough to do 88 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: our country loss. And if to live the few of 89 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: the men the greater share of honor God's will, I 90 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: pray the wish not one man more. By jove, I 91 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: am not covetous for gold, nor care I who doth 92 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: feed upon my cost. It earns me not if men 93 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: my garments wear such outward things, dwell not in my desires. 94 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: But if it be a sin to covet honor, I 95 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: am the most offending soul alive. No faith, my cousin, 96 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: wish not a man from England God's peace. I would 97 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: not lose so great an honor as one man more, methinks, 98 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: would share for me for the best hope I have, Oh, 99 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: do not wish for one more. Rather proclaim West Millett, 100 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: through my host, that he which hath no stomach to 101 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: this fight, let him depart. His passport shall be made 102 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: and crowns for convoy put into his purse. We would 103 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: not die in that man's company that fears his fellowship 104 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: to die with us. This day is called the feast 105 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: of Chrispian. He that outlives this day and comes safe home, 106 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: will stand a tiptoe when this day is named, and 107 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: rouse him at the name of Chrispian. He that shall 108 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: live this day and see old age, will yearly on 109 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: the vigil feast his neighbors and say tomorrow is Saint Chrispian. 110 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars, 111 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: and say, these wounds I had on Chrispian's day, old 112 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: men forget. Yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember 113 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: with advantages what feats he did that day. Then shall 114 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: our names familiar in his mouth as household words, Harry 115 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: the King, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and 116 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: Gloucester be and their flowing cups freshly remembered this story 117 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: shall the good man teach his son and Crispin. Crispian 118 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: shall ne'er go by from this day to the ending 119 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: of the world, but we in it shall be remembered, 120 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: we few, we happy few, we band of brothers. For 121 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: he today that sheds his blood with me shall be 122 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: my brother. Be he ne'er so vile this day shall 123 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: gentle his condition. And gentlemen in England now a bed 124 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: shall think themselves accursed they were not here, and hold 125 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: their manhood's cheap. Whilst an he speaks that fought with 126 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: us upon Saint Crispin's day. Now, now here's the thing, 127 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: here's the thing that really really brings that back souse 128 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: all right, thank but that speech that I'm Shakespeare, not me, 129 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: that that that speech was all meant to try and 130 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: rouse the troops to fight. And in fact Westmoreland himself says, 131 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: he turns to Westmorelands as do you want to have 132 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: someone join us? Now? In Westmorelands is if it were 133 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: just me and you we could take them all. And 134 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: sure enough, as the story unfolds, the French lose thousands 135 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: and the English number they're dead at and this is 136 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: historically accurate. More or less. Yes, the Battle of Agan 137 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: Corps was a phenomenal battle in which the English faced 138 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: overwhelming odds against the French, but they used a lot 139 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: of interesting tactics, including using the longbow and uh and 140 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: hiding essentially kind of guerrilla warfare in the woods to 141 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: the sides of the battlefield to kind of uh shower 142 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: the French with arrows. Use it. Yeah, it turns out 143 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: that's a really useful tactic. But this speech I think 144 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: is one of those that to this day tends to 145 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: be one of the ones that in England is referred 146 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: to as a truly patriotic speech. This idea of that 147 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: that because there are so few of us, that actually 148 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: makes this even more of an honorable action. And for 149 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: those of you who do live, just imagine the stories 150 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: you're going to be telling your children and their children, 151 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: and how everyone from this point forward will remember that 152 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: you were here, Like that's an incredible thing. Yeah. And 153 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: at the time, let's see, so Henry Henry at fifth 154 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: was written around Yeah, it was. It was in the 155 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: second second Henry Ad, actually the Henry Ad, which was 156 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: the second four play series in his histories, and the 157 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: battle we're referring to occurred in fourteen fifteen, so this 158 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: is at the time the first time at stage this 159 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: is an historical work, you know what I mean. People 160 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: were regarding this in some ways, uh, similar to the 161 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: way modern audiences regard things like a World War two 162 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: film or maybe The Patriot with mel Gibson or Braveheart 163 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: with melch you know something, but not necessarily with mel Gibson. Well, 164 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: and the English history plays from Shakespeare that spans eight plays, 165 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: from Richard the Second to essentially, yeah, Richard the Third. 166 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: That's that's oddly enough, Richard the Second, Richard the Third 167 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: not backed back. There's a whole bunch of kings in between. 168 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: So the that story is actually the War of the Roses. 169 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: That that entire sequence of plays. And the interesting thing 170 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: to me is that Shakespeare wrote the four plays that 171 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: represent the end of that, Henry the Sixth, Parts one, 172 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: two and three, and Richard the Third. He wrote those 173 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: earlier in his career, and then he wrote the four 174 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: plays that represent the beginning of the War of the Roses, 175 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: Richard the Second, Henry the Fourth part one too, and 176 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: Henry the five Those he wrote later. So you could 177 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: think that kind of like Lucas, he went back and 178 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: wrote the prequels. And like Lucas, we also knew where 179 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: where the story had to end up. I mean, this 180 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: was history. Although he takes great liberties in his history place. Uh, 181 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: but it was this. This eight series of plays tells 182 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: you the full history of the Lancasters and the Yorks, 183 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: from the point where Richard the Second abdicates his throne 184 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: and gives Henry Bolingbrooke, who becomes Henry the Fourth, control 185 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: of England, all the way up to when Richard the 186 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: Third loses the crown and Henry Tutor, the father of 187 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: Henry the Eighth, who in turn was the father of 188 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth, his monarch at the time. UM like that, 189 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: that was that full story. So this was a story 190 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: that a lot of the English knew very well. And 191 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: this this is an excellent um summation, or I would 192 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: say a slice of the pie Shakespeare wise. Again, we 193 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: have to thank you for that excellent recitation. We do 194 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: want to recommend if you happen to be in the area, 195 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: that you check out the Georgia Renaissance Festival. Jonathan, I 196 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: know that I give you a lot of guff off 197 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: air because it makes my day to do so I'm 198 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: not going to stop on weekends. And I put on 199 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: that I run around in Georgia weather. It's all right. 200 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: I admire that part. And and just by way of 201 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: a plug and very honest one. I took my my 202 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: son last year and he absolutely adored it. Yeah, it's 203 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: it's the sort of thing that I loved as a kid, 204 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: and honestly, it's the interactions with kids that I still enjoy. Yeah. 205 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: It runs mid April through the first weekend of June, 206 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: and if you do go, there will be open auditions 207 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: with William Shakespeare. I'll be auditioning parts, so if you 208 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: if you've ever wanted to stand up on a stage 209 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: and recite, I'll have lots of different speeches on hand 210 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: from all the different plays so that we can we 211 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: can cast all the I mean, I'm going to be 212 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: performing all the shows. I gotta cast every single part. Right. Uh, yeah, 213 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: I'll go, but I I can't wait to hear the 214 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: rest of this. So I'm waiting for you to tell 215 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: me that Shakespeare didn't write Shakespeare so I can lay 216 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: the smack down. That's I'm glad you said that, because 217 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: the originally we examined this this group of thoughts as 218 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: a video in our YouTube video series and it was 219 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: fascinating because off air, we've all worked together for years. Folks. 220 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: Off off air, there have been times where more than 221 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: once actually where you, Jonathan, I don't want to see 222 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: quite out of the blue, but you have come up 223 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: to me, who we weren't talking about anything in particular, 224 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: to tell me how much this idea has bothered you. 225 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: And it bothers a lot of people, the concept the 226 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: anti stratf Ardians and anyone who thinks that that someone 227 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: other than William Shakespeare must have written the plays. I 228 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: find it infuriating and perplexing at the same time. But 229 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: was there even a real William Shakespeare? Yes? So, well, 230 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: there are legal documents that have his name on them. 231 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: I've seen six, specifically, I was going to say I've 232 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: seen a few. So with that excellent introduction, let's dive 233 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: into the life of William Shakespeare. Let's also just Jonathan, 234 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and kidnap you. You work on several 235 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: other shows, you work on tech stuff, you work on 236 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: the brink, you have you're a man of many hats. Yeah, 237 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm wearing one of them right now. You are, you 238 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: are where it must have been tough to choose the one. 239 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: So they give me a porter. So we're going to 240 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: there's a story there, So we're going to We're going 241 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: to kidnap you all right, we've conscripted you to be 242 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: a guest along with Ramsey on the show today. Let's 243 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: explore William Shakespeare is born in as I believe you 244 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: had established earlier fifteen sixty four ish, right sometimes around there. 245 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: We don't have the actual record of his birth. We 246 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: have the record of his baptism, right, and that's a 247 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: relatively common thing at this point in the historical record. 248 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: He was brought up in Stratford upon Avon, and eventually 249 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: he was buried there. Of course, he made a couple 250 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: stops in London, right, and uh, he maintained his household 251 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: in Stratford for the duration of his career in London. 252 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: But other than that, the things we know for sure 253 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: about the individual, the human William Shakespeare, uh, they would 254 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: seem relatively scant by today's terms, especially for someone who 255 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: was so influential and did so many things in his life. Right, 256 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: we don't have as many details as we would want. 257 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: We do know that someone of pretty much the same name, 258 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: the same guy again, the person married and had children 259 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,479 Speaker 1: in Stratford. Because there is, as you mentioned, that baptismal register. Right. 260 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: The one of the problems that we should establish from 261 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: The jump here is that you can find contemporary written 262 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: records with Shakespeare's name mentioning him, um, even even a 263 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: few with what is confirmed to be his own signature, 264 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: but the spelling varies. And so for people who have 265 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: an issue with something about Shakespeare, they'll say, well, why 266 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: does the marriage bond have shag Spear? And yeah, who's 267 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: the Shagspear character? Are they the same as shacks pair? Oh? Yeah, 268 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: that was another one, isn't it s h A X 269 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: P E R E shak spare? Yeah. I actually actually 270 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: have answers to these, but I don't know if you 271 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: want me to give them, not yet, right, but they're there, 272 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: but there are answers. So we do know that William 273 00:17:54,680 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: Shakespeare gave evidence in a court case. He signed some documents. Uh, 274 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: he went home to Stratford. Eventually he made a will 275 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: and around sixteen sixteen he died apparently possibly on the 276 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: same date that he was born on it based on 277 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: the baptism. Yeah, still still a guestimate, but well written, 278 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: just structurally in terms of beginnings. Yeah, no, if you're 279 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: going to if you're going to have a mysterious life 280 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: being born and dying on the same date, not the 281 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: same day, but the same date. Is it does add 282 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: to that era of mystery, does it not? Kind of 283 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: like Samuel Clemens A K. Twain'll bring me back out again. Yeah, 284 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: Shakespeare's Shakespeare's work in his career, Um, well, a lot 285 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: of it starts obviously in London. He becomes an actor 286 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: and then a shareholder in what was called the Lord 287 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: Chamberlain's Men, then the known later as the Kingsman. Matt 288 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: what were what were the Kingsmen? They were the playing 289 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: company that owned the Globe, right, Yeah, this is this 290 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: is the part where the Globe Theater, the world renowned 291 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: Globe Theater comes in. Um. Also the Blackfriars Theater that 292 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: would be later, but yeah, that was that was one 293 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: of the first indoor theaters in London. Yeah, Jonathan, tell 294 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: us a little bit about the Lord Chamberlain's Men. Sure. Yeah, 295 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: So you had theater companies that typically had a patron 296 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: that supported their work so that they could get the 297 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: upfront costs they would need to put on a performance, 298 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: and they would recapture those costs through whatever means like 299 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: ticket sales once you got to the theaters. Theaters in 300 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: London were brand new when Shakespeare got there. They had 301 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: only been around for maybe fifteen years. Before that. You 302 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: would typically see a play performed in the courtyard of 303 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: an in house or maybe in some real fancy persons 304 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: like waiting room that just happened to be as large 305 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: as a theater would be that kind of thing. But 306 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: this was this was a time where theaters as purpose 307 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: built structures were brand new in England. So Shakespeare is 308 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: a part owner with this theatrical group, which means he 309 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: gets a percentage of the box office. That's actually how 310 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: Shakespeare made all his money. You didn't make very much 311 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: money publishing a play because you didn't publish plays, you 312 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: performed them. Shakespeare in his lifetime never published any of 313 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: his plays. Some of them got published, but it wasn't 314 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: his decision. And so he was making money by helping 315 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: produce work that could be performed in this theater and 316 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: then getting proceeds from the ticket sales. And he was 317 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: making money off of his own work because I think 318 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: the Kingsman had the exclusive rights to produce his plays 319 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: right for a period of times, he was essentially essentially 320 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: he would write material for the theater that he had 321 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: ownership in, and he would also we think for form 322 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: in those shows he was often listed as one of 323 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: the actors that we don't know what parts he played. Uh, 324 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: do you think he ever did a one man I'm 325 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: going to do a production of Hamlet, except all the 326 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: characters are We do actually think that he may have 327 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: played Hamlet's father's ghost in Hamlet, but there's there's not 328 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: a lot of there's not not really any hard evidence 329 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: to back that up. So so you've got essentially a 330 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: guy who owns part of the theater and he's a 331 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: gifted writer, assuming that we're going with the story that 332 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare he's a gifted writer who is supplying 333 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: his own theater with material to attract people. You also 334 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: have to remember that at the time, let me set 335 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: the scene here in London, you have Puritans who are 336 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: very powerful in the city. They do not allow theaters 337 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: to operate within the city limits of London, so all 338 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: the theaters are either north of the city or south 339 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: of the city on the across the Thames on the 340 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: south part. So if you want to go see a 341 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: show and you live in the city, you have to 342 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: find you have to pay a ferryman to get across 343 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: the river, or you have to travel all the way 344 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: to the London Bridge, which is not close to where 345 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: the theaters are, make your way to the theater, pay 346 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: your penny if you're a ground link, to stand and 347 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: watch the show, and then you have to hustle back 348 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: because the city gates of London were meant to be 349 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: locked at sunset. Makes sense because of the vampires exactly right. 350 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: You know, you don't invite them in, so you have 351 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: to rush back to London to get back inside in 352 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: time so that you could go to bed. Right. The 353 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: theater district was in the same district as all the brothels, 354 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: the bear baiting arenas, the gambling houses, and the ends 355 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: of ill repute. It was a sleazy um. It was 356 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: considered a sleazy profession, yeah, and a sleazy show to attend. 357 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: And in fact the sleazy profession is what lends some 358 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: people to suggest others who may have written for Shakespeare, 359 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: because they would want their own name attached to so 360 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: lowly a profession. Ah, there we go. Okay, so now 361 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: we've hit upon it. Uh. The other one other thing 362 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: we know about Shakespeare is that eventually, in after fift 363 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: he became a gentleman because his father was given a 364 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: coat of arms which Shakespeare paid for, yeah, which which 365 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: did have some money involved. And we can we can 366 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: talk for hours and hours and days and days about 367 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: probably each place specifically because there's such a depth and 368 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: wealth of um connection and I don't know, ripple effect 369 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: now in modern society. Yeah, And just to put this 370 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: out there talking about that ripple effect, my wife just 371 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: the other day went to the Plaza Theater where they 372 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: were showing a version of Romeo and Julia exactly and 373 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: still still today in twenty nineteen. The effects are seen 374 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: like in those ripples as they you know, as they 375 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: affected basis learnment, as they affected even my wife when 376 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: she watched it, and now all the other people who 377 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: are watching well, and then you have all the adaptations 378 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: like West Side Story, which is not it's it's essentially 379 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: Romeo and Juliet, but it's a musical and it's changed 380 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: the location, it's changed the two warring families to two gangs. 381 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: But you know, we we still we still see these 382 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: ripples going just as strong. In fact, I wouldn't even 383 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: say that they've weakened over time, that we might see 384 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 1: them in cycles. It's also interesting to see which plays 385 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: are are popular during different eras, because you'll find one 386 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: era where Hamlet is considered that the height of of 387 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: Shakespeare's genius, and then after say nineteen sixty or so, 388 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: it started to shift towards King Lear. And what it 389 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: really tells you is more about the society that is 390 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: currently enamored of that specific play than the play itself. 391 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: Right like how um that remake of adaptation of Titus 392 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: Andronicus police Academy for it's police, police Academy for It's true. 393 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: So this guy, this individual, this playwright is so prolific, 394 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: especially even even in a modern day setting. Writing thirty 395 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: seven plays that aren't garbage is a phenomenal feat. And 396 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: this guy did it without the access to the wealth 397 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: of instantaneous near instantaneous information we have today, without a 398 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: word processor, probably without probably without a lot of help, 399 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: or did he have help. It is a huge body 400 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: of work for one man, And it's not surprising that many, 401 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: many people from various walks of life disagree with what 402 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: we just gave you. We gave you the official narrative, 403 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: but what about the people who don't agree with it? 404 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: Will explore their side of the story after a word 405 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy, So, Matt. 406 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: Earlier Jonathan mentioned the rise of a group of people 407 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: called the Anti Stratfordians. Anti Stratfordians. There are many flavors 408 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: of them. There are there are positively like skittle level, 409 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: you know, uh so like that six or seven. Well, 410 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: let's so so, Matt. What what are these people? What's there? 411 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: What's their stick, what's their thing? Well, yeah, it's it's 412 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: groups of people who, over the centuries have come together 413 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: and agreed that they do not agree that William Shakespeare 414 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: wrote all of his plays. They are at least um, 415 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: some of them don't believe you wrote any of them. 416 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: Some believe that William Shakespeare wasn't even actually William Shakespeare 417 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: or a person necessary early and uh, it varies very 418 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: it varies widely, and some people disagree with their own disagreements, 419 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They're the anti Stratfordians are 420 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: not a monolithic group. The one thing they agree on 421 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: is they don't think that William Shakespeare did everything. And 422 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: they have some beef with each other within their community. 423 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: But you're you're absolutely right. There's the idea that someone 424 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: else wrote the place. There's the idea that Shakespeare's maybe 425 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: an umbrella term similar to the theory about banks E. 426 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: The street artists probably one of the best in the 427 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: world right now, there's the theory that, you know, that's 428 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: actually a collective rights operating under a singular identity exactly. 429 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: I tend to enjoy that idea. Yes, yeah, for Banksy. 430 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: But one thing is for sure, this particular genre of 431 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory has massive staying power. This isn't like a 432 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: a jade helm thing where it comes up with an 433 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: expiration date or a world will end in twelve think. 434 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: You know, this concept has persisted for some time, but 435 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: not it's not as old as most people assume. I 436 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: would argue because, contrary to popular belief, the idea of 437 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: a Shakespeare a Shakespearean conspiracy or a question about the 438 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: authorship is historically speaking, somewhat recent. Yeah, there's some some 439 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: nineteenth century thinkers who were proposing this. You mentioned Samuel 440 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 1: Clemens earlier, Mark Twain. Mark Twain's one of the people 441 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: who suggested that perhaps Shakespeare did not write Shakespeare. But 442 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: that guy is such a troll as well. Well, I mean, 443 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: you know, Mark Twain was pretty much convinced that no 444 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: one was as clever as he was. So you know, 445 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: I used to I used to love that author, true story, 446 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: until a friend got me a copy of his woefully 447 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: unedited autobiography. It just goes on and on. I'm I've 448 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm done with Mark Twain until about Well, 449 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: let's let's lay out why don't you, guys. I don't 450 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: mean to take over your show. I would love to 451 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: hear you guys sort of lay out some of the 452 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: usual suspects, the ones who are often uh proposed as 453 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: the possible people who actually wrote those Shakespearean for sure. Well, 454 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: the best way for us to get there is to 455 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: explore some of the history you mentioned nineteenth century thinkers 456 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: who first proposed these um alternative alternatives. That's a very 457 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: safe word. Yes, that's everybody. Yes, that's when Samuel Clemens 458 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: would be right. No one really seemed to doubt that 459 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: Shakespeare wrote these plays until around the eighteen fifties. The 460 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: first public anti strap forty and claim was written by 461 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: an American, Delia Bacon. She had an article in Putnam's 462 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: Magazine in eighteen fifty six called William Shakespeare and his 463 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: Plays and Inquiry concerning Them, which is I know, what 464 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: do we need to talk kind of kind of message? 465 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: But what what was in this What was the gist 466 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: of this article? Well, I mean it's it's an opinion 467 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: that is kind of valid in a couple of ways 468 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: and then just silly in others. So she thought the 469 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: plays were were more than stories, like historical stories that 470 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: are being retold. She thought they were um written deliberately 471 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: to spread ideas about about enlightenment, about modernity, about progress 472 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: of humanity. And uh. She thought the plays were essentially, 473 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: like I guess, a form of propaganda. Um. And it 474 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: was written by a secret committee essentially of people like 475 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: in a luminati of sorts. Um. I mean, it sounds 476 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: kind of silly, but at the same time, it's an 477 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: interesting thought experiment if we go into it. And she 478 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: criptically hinted that there was a different person that had 479 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: actually written the plays, or at least had had a 480 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: big hand in writing the plays, a certain Sir Francis Bacon, 481 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: no relation to Delia Bacon. Yeah. She she said that 482 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,719 Speaker 1: there was a secret collective in the Bacon obviously was 483 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,959 Speaker 1: the was the leader of the group. Uh. Delia Bacon 484 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: never found any any smoking gun evidence for her beliefs 485 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: or or anything beyond her belief vaguely circumstantial evidence. All right, now, 486 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: I know you've got some irons in the fire on 487 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: this way. Yeah, I'm gonna we want to know, we 488 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: want to know, we want to know, but we want 489 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: to get you set up in the right. So a 490 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: lot of people will, perhaps unfairly uh cast dispersion on 491 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: Delia Bacon because she had a painful private life as well. 492 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: She when she passed away, it wasn't an asylum, which 493 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: was a brutal place to be in in that time 494 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: and era. But just like Shakespeare, just like Shakespeare, she 495 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: had ripple ripples throughout history. This single article it lit 496 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: the fuse. It lit the fire for what would become 497 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: an explosively um controversial line of thinking, and one that 498 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: very much, even in the modern day, aims to be 499 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: considered a serious academic discipline, much to the massive irritation 500 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: of people who are right exactly. And I love academic beef. 501 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's so fascinating. But to 502 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: your question, a little bit of a circuitous way to 503 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: get there. But to your question, Jonathan, if it was 504 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: not William Shakespeare, Shakespeare was not the author, or if 505 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: it were a brand name for a bunch of people 506 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: working in secret, who would the actual author be. Candidates 507 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: include Francis Bacon. Christopher Marlow. That would have been a 508 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: tricky one. That would have been a tricky one because 509 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: he died in a bar fight while several plays were 510 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: still being written, although although there have been theories that 511 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: stated that the plays were already written, either the Place 512 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: had already been written and then we're published regularly or 513 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: performed rather because again they weren't published, they performed regularly 514 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: after Marlow's death, or the even crazier idea that Marlow 515 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: faked his death in a bar fight and secretly was 516 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: still writing the Place because he just couldn't give it up. 517 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, did he move to like Cuba, kind 518 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: of like Tupac. No, he just sort of moved to 519 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: Southampton and and you know, got some different clothes on, 520 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: a silly wig and a fake nose. Well, let's talk 521 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: about who Christopher Marlow is. Sure, Yeah, Marlow was another 522 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: writer in player of the sixteenth century England. Also was 523 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: a spy. He actually did work on behalf of of 524 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth, which was not the safest of professions. I 525 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 1: don't think working for a royal family at that time 526 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: is ever going to be an inherently safe profession. Honestly, 527 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: Elizabethan England, any profession was an unsafe profession because if 528 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: you were a Catholic, you were all that was. That 529 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: was dangerous by itself, and Shakespeare's family, by the way, Catholic, 530 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: so that was But that's another Yeah. So so you've 531 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: got you've got Marlowe, who's uh, he wrote Faust so 532 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: famous play, he's he wrote a couple of others. Is 533 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: really well known for writing drama, was not known for 534 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: writing comedy, which is possibly why some people say maybe 535 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: he contributed some of the plays, but maybe not all 536 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: of them, because there just wasn't any evidence to suggest 537 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: that he could write comedy. I would argue that based 538 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: upon some of experienced comedies, there's not a whole lot 539 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: of evidence that he could do it either. But now 540 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,959 Speaker 1: there's actually some very funny Shakespeare comedies, but there there's 541 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the humors lost on us, the modern audience, 542 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: because we no longer have those puns, so they don't 543 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: really make sense to us anymore. But anyway, so marlow 544 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: uh is this very dangerous kind of individual who's also 545 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: prolific writer, also comes from a fairly humble background, which 546 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: later exactly so we'll get into that later. But but 547 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: he ends up trying to come to the defense of 548 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: a friend in a tavern and as a result of 549 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: the fracas that breaks out, he sustains a critical injury 550 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: and dies. And this is in the middle of Shakespeare's productivity. 551 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: So that that again, assuming that the death is legit 552 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: and it wasn't Marlow trying to fake his death so 553 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: that he could live out his golden years, which would 554 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: have been many. He was not that old old when 555 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: it happened, um, and he was. He was of an 556 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: age similar to Shakespeare. They were about the same age. 557 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: Assuming that that didn't happen, that he didn't fake his death, 558 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: it would have made it very tricky to continue writing. 559 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: Side note unrelated, this is just the fact I found, 560 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: and I think you guys would enjoy it if you 561 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: hadn't heard it before. I'm just reminded because of the 562 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: idea of literary buddies, peers, creative peers, Ernest Hemingway, James Joyce, 563 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: um solid writers and being very fair solid writers, uh 564 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: notorious drunks. Do you know this story about apparently they 565 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: were known for getting into bar fights Joyce? Uh, editors, 566 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: I mean you just have to read Fitting Its Weight 567 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: to know that the guy runs on at the mouth bit. 568 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 1: But apparently he was somewhat of a nebbish character, somewhat 569 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: of a yeah, what's it, what's another word for an 570 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: nebbish milk toast? That's really good? Actually, uh, yeah it was. 571 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: It was a little bit more that didn't come across 572 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: as masculinity personified the way Hemmingway, so they would be 573 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: a bar fight. So allegedly James Joyce was famous for 574 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: running his mouth and then starting to fight and then 575 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: physically running to hide behind Ernest Hemingway while yelling like 576 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: take care of him, him away, crimson his face. That's perfect. 577 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: So that notice, ID just used that as cocktail trivia 578 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: at your next um James Joyce Ornest Hemingway themed sare 579 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: And you know, there is a conspiracy that the bar 580 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: fight that Christopher Marlow got into was actually or there's 581 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: a theory that it was a conspiracy to assassinate Marlow. 582 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: That's yeah, yeah, yeah, that there are a lot of 583 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: stories about that. I mean, that was free, which in 584 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: Shakespeare's timeline would be right at the very beginning of 585 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: of his rise. Uh, and those would still be the 586 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: plays produced in the early fifteen nineties were still considered 587 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 1: the sort of the juvenile works of Shakespeare, the ones 588 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: before he really found his voice right, right, And that's 589 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: that's like maybe just a year before uh, the exclusivity 590 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,320 Speaker 1: agreement comes into effect. Other other candidates include the fifth 591 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: Earl of Rutland, who that's all you need to know 592 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: about them, actually, the sixth Earl of Derby, the seventeenth 593 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: Earl of Oxford. Note that there are a lot of 594 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: aristocrats being named. Oxford is one of the big ones 595 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: Oxfordians are. That's one of the larger camps of anti Strapfordians. Yes, 596 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: and then even Queen Elizabeth one has been proposed. That 597 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: seems a little out there, right, It turns out there 598 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:50,280 Speaker 1: more than eighty potential real Shakespeare's and this this is weird. 599 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: Why do people believe this? In the case of Bacon Deally, 600 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: Bacon's original argument, Uh, you can say there's a little 601 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: bit of classism involved, because Shakespeare at at the time 602 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: in which Delia writes this article, Shakespeare is very much deified, 603 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: especially especially in his homeland. He's depicted as as a 604 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: person um being from a relatively uncultured town, right, a 605 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: rural neighborhood. Right, And people say has no formal education 606 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: because they'll say, there's not an exhaustive written record. Well, 607 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: he didn't attend university. He didn't attend university, but he 608 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: sure knew a whole lot about history. He wrote, he 609 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: wrote a lot about history as if he were correct. 610 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: Is the best way to say so. At the time. Though, 611 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: this this anti Stratfordian argument, is that based on what 612 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: what the plays have in terms of content, based on 613 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: the various historical literary illusions and the extensive vocabulary, they say, well, 614 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: there's not really a way a guy who didn't go 615 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: to college could do this, I mean, if we're being honest, 616 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: which yeah, that that is a very common argument, the 617 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 1: idea that how could someone from essentially the sticks, right, 618 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: And it's the effectively you're saying, some some hick from 619 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: the sticks son of a glovemaker and and and an 620 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: amateur actor who then turns pro how could that guy 621 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: end up creating what many people believe to be the 622 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: pinnacle of poetic language, particularly in play format, and another part, 623 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: you know, you know, you're you're thinking not just not 624 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 1: just that these are cracking, good stories, but these are 625 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: characters who seem to embody much deeper representations of human 626 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: nature than what you would see in contemporary works. Now 627 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: that's tricky to say, because there's not a lot of 628 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: contemporary works that actually survived that era, and a lot 629 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: in general. There's a couple of Shakespeare plays that that 630 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: may have existed that we don't have any more, Loves 631 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,399 Speaker 1: Labors one of them, and the Cardenio, both of those 632 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: are lost plays. We don't know. We We've got a 633 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: an adaptation of the Cardinio that was done in the 634 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, but that was a heavy rewrite, which was 635 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 1: not uncommon. You often had theaters rewriting Shakespeare to perform 636 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: it later on, especially as different values arose in society, 637 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: where certain things were considered taboo, they would rewrite Shakespeare's 638 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: plays to get rid of anything that would refer to that, 639 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,839 Speaker 1: And so Shakespeare's plays went through a lot of transformation, 640 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: particularly in the nineteenth century, eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. I 641 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: love what you're pointing out, though about the way you 642 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 1: point out earlier the way theater is perceived at the time. 643 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: This plays into the views of anti stratford i in 644 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: um scholars or researchers or enthusiasts. Because at the time 645 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: which Delia Bacon is writing this, and at the time 646 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:20,799 Speaker 1: in which Shakespeare was performing popular thought of regarding what 647 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: could be considered art and what could be considered a 648 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: higher form of art or a lower form of entertainment, 649 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,720 Speaker 1: the popular thought drew a sharp distinction between various forms 650 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: of the written word. Poetry was a manifestation of high culture. 651 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,760 Speaker 1: The best book was and always will be, the Bible, 652 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 1: and you will die if you don't like the version 653 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: we have, especially once James came along and presented his 654 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 1: version I know, which was so Kanye of him. But 655 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,319 Speaker 1: but theater, on the other hand, was seen as like 656 00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: vulgar entertainment. The groundlings that that phrase comes from the 657 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: mosh pit. You would stand in this in this space 658 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: that was right in front of the stage, and for 659 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: a penny you could stand there and watch the show. 660 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 1: And if you had sixpence I think it was, you 661 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 1: could sit in the galleries, so you would be in 662 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: a seated position further back with a full view of 663 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,320 Speaker 1: the stage and Uh, but you know it also spoke 664 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: to the popularity of the theater, the fact that they 665 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 1: could get commoners who you know, even when you sit 666 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: there and say it was one penny for a show, 667 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: for some people, that was that was the equivalent of 668 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,439 Speaker 1: two days pay. So they're paying, they're paying two days 669 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: worth of labor to watch a show. And these shows 670 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,760 Speaker 1: are the the play they would perform would change every 671 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: single day because you don't do one show for a run, 672 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: because you all you have to constantly be filling up 673 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: that theater, because people would say, why would I spend 674 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: two days worth of pay to see the same thing again? Right, 675 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 1: And there's only two d fifty thousand people in London 676 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: and the theater fits. So you start doing the math 677 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,760 Speaker 1: and you think, if you want to stay in business, 678 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: you've got to change that. That's why you had so 679 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: many plays being produced, not all of them being Shakespeare's. Uh, 680 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: it was absolutely imperative from a business standpoint. So let's 681 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,320 Speaker 1: let's get back to that idea of the theater industry, 682 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: because for anti Stratfordians that tends to, paradoxically enough, be 683 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: a piece of evidence that they use against the argument 684 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: that Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare, because they would say, you know what, 685 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: theater is relatively low brow. So one thing we do 686 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: know about this William Shakespeare fellow is that he was 687 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: a professional actor, and that means that he was associated 688 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,680 Speaker 1: with theatre others, which, by the way, it was right 689 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:08,399 Speaker 1: next to the brothels gab There's no way someone from 690 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: the argument is from a rural part of the world, 691 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: in a very seedy profession and one of the sleaziest 692 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: neighborhoods of London. There's no way that guy could have 693 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:24,480 Speaker 1: written such amazing poetry poetic prose. Uh No, it was 694 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:29,279 Speaker 1: obviously the sixth Earl of Derby, Yes, who bestowed his 695 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: brilliant work down upon the act, but could not possibly 696 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: attach his name to the work, for it would sully 697 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 1: his otherwise spotless reputation. Yeah, and we are talking about 698 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:44,719 Speaker 1: the sixth, not that, not that degenerate the seventh. So 699 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,280 Speaker 1: it's it's true. They also questioned, we mentioned this before, 700 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 1: how Shakespeare, with no record of education or um cultured background, 701 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: how could he know all the things that the author 702 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: of these plays no vocabulary is calculated to be somewhere 703 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: north of seventeen thousand, five hundred words and the max 704 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: would be twenty nine thousand different words. There aren't any 705 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 1: signed manuscripts written by Shakespeare that are around today. We 706 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: don't have anything where, you know, you can't go to 707 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: the Smithsonian and see underglass the handwritten draft of Hamlet. Right, 708 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: and to be fair, London has gone up in flames 709 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,720 Speaker 1: a couple of times. Shakespeare wrote so, and and again 710 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,040 Speaker 1: also to be fair, not a lot of material from 711 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: that era survives period in general. Right, So, so singling 712 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: out Shakespeare's work is a little is a little disingenuous, 713 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: only because it's only in hindsight that we see how 714 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: valuable it was. Right, right, that's a great point, you know. 715 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: We see the classism involved again here with the anti 716 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 1: Stratford in our ument. So Shakespeare has six signatures that 717 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: have been authenticated. People who don't believe Shakespeare wrote this stuff, 718 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: who do believe he was a rube, They say that, 719 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: look at these signatures. Sure this may have been some 720 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:20,319 Speaker 1: guy named William Shagg's pair or whatever. But but he 721 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: writes like he can't read. He writes, he writes in 722 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:28,239 Speaker 1: a scrawl. This means that he was either illiterate or 723 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: functionally illiterate. Someone who can just you know, write their name, 724 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,759 Speaker 1: maybe do some simple sums. But the spread of conspiracy 725 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: theories about Shakespeare has an international dimension to it, right 726 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: Like both Um, both Bacon, and another anti Stratfordian Heart 727 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 1: were Americans, and these different candidates for authorship continue to 728 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,400 Speaker 1: find their supporters in the US. People in the US 729 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,960 Speaker 1: love this story. The History Channel probably loves this story, right, 730 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,960 Speaker 1: PBS love to the story. They produce documentaries about this 731 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 1: usually every five to ten years. I did not realize that, 732 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because I I've done quite a bit of research, which, 733 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,840 Speaker 1: to be fair, first of all, I studied this in college, 734 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:16,759 Speaker 1: but that was more than twenty years ago. Not that 735 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,880 Speaker 1: Shakespeare's written much since then, but but it's been a 736 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 1: long time since I was actively studying it. But now 737 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: that I'm taking on the role, I want to be 738 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,840 Speaker 1: able to answer people when they ask me certain questions 739 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,360 Speaker 1: about Shakespeare as best I can. It is incredibly challenging 740 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,200 Speaker 1: because Ben, as you have pointed out, we know so 741 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: very little about the man. Very little information exists about 742 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:45,480 Speaker 1: Shakespeare's life. We piece it together from scant records and 743 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,840 Speaker 1: uh and various things that were written about Shakespeare, typically 744 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,200 Speaker 1: after he had already died, so it is hard to 745 00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:58,880 Speaker 1: piece it together. But the same is true for everyone 746 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:03,800 Speaker 1: in the elizabeth An era, with the exception of Elizabeth. Yeah, 747 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 1: and maybe some other members of the royal court. But 748 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: it's it's true. This lack of this lack of knowledge 749 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 1: allows alternative views or arguments to proliferate. There's nothing wrong 750 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: with that, but we do have to look at the evidence. 751 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:24,879 Speaker 1: So we have presented the broad strokes of the anti Stratfordian, 752 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:30,560 Speaker 1: anti Shakespeare Shakespeare argument. What if any problems exist with 753 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:40,840 Speaker 1: these theories? Will tell you after a word from our sponsor. Guys, 754 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 1: hold on a second here, I'm not fully convinced what 755 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,800 Speaker 1: I think. Perhaps William Shakespeare was in fact a group 756 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:54,360 Speaker 1: of some other people or one other person or other person, 757 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 1: just a whole bunch of that person who Yeah, in 758 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 1: some kind of multiverse. Uh, let's let's to really talk 759 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 1: about the reasons why Shakespeare probably was Shakespeare. Yeah. So 760 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,720 Speaker 1: it's first off, it's fascinating. Of course we want to 761 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: be involved in such an intriguing historical Who done it? 762 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,200 Speaker 1: You know? Imagine how such a revelation could change history. 763 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,000 Speaker 1: The problem is something isn't true just because it's interesting 764 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,880 Speaker 1: and that's the fact we all run into at some 765 00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,400 Speaker 1: point in our lives. The vast majority, by which we 766 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:33,840 Speaker 1: mean virtually all um serious and accepted working Shakespeare scholars 767 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: think these claims are malarkey. They think they're nonsense, and 768 00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,879 Speaker 1: on their side, they have some pretty convincing arguments. One 769 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,719 Speaker 1: of the first hinges on the timing. You see, if 770 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,160 Speaker 1: Shakespeare didn't write this stuff, or if he who are 771 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:50,440 Speaker 1: somehow a secret gang of people, then why didn't anybody 772 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 1: talk about it when this guy was alive? Why didn't 773 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 1: no one call him a plagiaris? Why did none of 774 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 1: his contemporaries, who who probably had some friendly rivalries, right, 775 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 1: Why sure Johnson definitely yeah? Why didn't they? Why didn't 776 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,880 Speaker 1: they say, let's expose this guy? And immediately after his 777 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,440 Speaker 1: death people who knew him while he was alive also 778 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 1: didn't say that, And no one came forward after he 779 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,240 Speaker 1: died saying okay, so is me? Also the place stopped 780 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:25,320 Speaker 1: after he died, no one, No one wrote other awesome, 781 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 1: amazing plays that are held in the same esteem as 782 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:33,040 Speaker 1: Shakespeare's after he died, even just by inventing another name 783 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,840 Speaker 1: like you, You would think, like what, what would motivate 784 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,040 Speaker 1: someone to create this stuff in the first place. Because 785 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,799 Speaker 1: keep in mind, again, this wasn't meant for publication, it 786 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,680 Speaker 1: was meant for performance. You did not make money selling 787 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: your play to a to a theatrical company. Maybe made 788 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,040 Speaker 1: five pounds, which was a significant sum, but you couldn't 789 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,000 Speaker 1: live off of it perpetually. And considering the amount of 790 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,880 Speaker 1: labor it takes to write a play versus the amount 791 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,640 Speaker 1: of money you would get for selling the play, that 792 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 1: that's a losing proposition in so you're not doing it 793 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: to make money directly. That's why Shakespeare made his money 794 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,760 Speaker 1: by being a part company owner, not through the selling 795 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,520 Speaker 1: of his place. You're not making money through publication because 796 00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:14,440 Speaker 1: nobody until Johnson came along bothered to publish their place. 797 00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,680 Speaker 1: Another yeah, another point. We mentioned Johnson a couple of 798 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,479 Speaker 1: times here. Um, yeah, who is this character? Well, well, 799 00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:25,319 Speaker 1: to that's that's that's a great question that because we 800 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: know he wrote stuff, but we don't know when or 801 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,279 Speaker 1: where he was born. It is not especially unusual for 802 00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,680 Speaker 1: us to have very very little biographical information for people 803 00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,480 Speaker 1: existing at this time, from the bottom to the top 804 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,120 Speaker 1: of the social sphere, not counting the royal family. Also 805 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,919 Speaker 1: speaking of Shakespeare's peers, not only did they not say 806 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,439 Speaker 1: he was a plagiarist, not only did they not say 807 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,000 Speaker 1: he was a fraud, they at multiple times confirmed that 808 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,400 Speaker 1: he wrote the stuff. They were like, oh, yeah, Hamlet, 809 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,239 Speaker 1: I know that guy. And sometimes they dissed him for it. Yeah, 810 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:02,120 Speaker 1: and sometimes they were like, oh yeah, much ado about nothing. Yeah. 811 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,120 Speaker 1: Well you had Robert Greene who said this upstart crow, 812 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,480 Speaker 1: you know it, has beautified himself with our feathers, saying 813 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,440 Speaker 1: he never specifically says Shakespeare, but he drops every single 814 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,800 Speaker 1: hint that it's got to be Shakespeare. So he's dissing 815 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,520 Speaker 1: on Shakespeare's largely because he's got the same sort of 816 00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:23,360 Speaker 1: elitist view that this this bumpkin is suddenly getting a 817 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,200 Speaker 1: whole lot of attention, and he's like, why are you 818 00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,000 Speaker 1: paying attention to this guy? You should pay attention to me. 819 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,120 Speaker 1: I'm much more important. Of course, he also was dying 820 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:33,319 Speaker 1: at the time he wrote it. Johnson wrote after Shakespeare's 821 00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:37,480 Speaker 1: death that uh that he was not known to blot 822 00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,560 Speaker 1: any lines, meaning he wasn't known for marking out a 823 00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,160 Speaker 1: line and changing it or editing it in some way. 824 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,279 Speaker 1: And then he said, would that he blotted a thousand, 825 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,720 Speaker 1: So essentially saying he sho he needed a better editor, 826 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,319 Speaker 1: is what Johnson was saying. So you had you had 827 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,479 Speaker 1: his contemporary's not only giving Shakespeare the credit for writing them, 828 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,560 Speaker 1: but sometimes saying like he wasn't that good of a right. 829 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,720 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until after Shakespeare's death that a couple 830 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,400 Speaker 1: of his his colleagues got together and decided they wanted 831 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,680 Speaker 1: to gather as many of the plays as they possibly 832 00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,320 Speaker 1: could and published them as a memorial to their friend. 833 00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:20,520 Speaker 1: So these two guys get together and they put together 834 00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,680 Speaker 1: was called the First Folio, which that's not even all 835 00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,600 Speaker 1: of the plays, but it's most of the surviving ones 836 00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,719 Speaker 1: that we know about. Um. And you also had some 837 00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: plays in publication already, but not through Shakespeare's uh permission, 838 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,359 Speaker 1: called quartos. Some of them were not great. They might 839 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,399 Speaker 1: have been written down by someone in the audience who 840 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,480 Speaker 1: was just trying that our best to remember the gist 841 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,040 Speaker 1: of a play. Those are what we called the bad 842 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:58,319 Speaker 1: quartos to be or not to uh something all over. Hey, 843 00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,880 Speaker 1: does that smell like plague? To you? So? Uh, this 844 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:07,319 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, This examination can continue for for 845 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,480 Speaker 1: quite a while. At this point, we at this point 846 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,880 Speaker 1: we are going to have to close the curtain on 847 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:20,279 Speaker 1: today's episode. But we we thought on that night that 848 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:24,440 Speaker 1: there was no better way to end than to point 849 00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:31,640 Speaker 1: out a quotation from David Thomas of Britain's National Archives. Yes, 850 00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:33,879 Speaker 1: I'm gonna just do a quick quote here for you 851 00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:38,320 Speaker 1: and try to kind of in a way, I guess, 852 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:46,960 Speaker 1: audition for you right now, Shakespeare Afterwards. The documentation for 853 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,720 Speaker 1: William Shakespeare is exactly what you would expect a person 854 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,279 Speaker 1: of his position of that time. It seems like a 855 00:55:54,400 --> 00:56:00,879 Speaker 1: dirth only because we are so intensely interested in him. 856 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,200 Speaker 1: Some days you exit pursued by the bar. Some days 857 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,920 Speaker 1: bar exit's pursued by you. So that's I mean, that's 858 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:12,279 Speaker 1: a great point though, because it's whole time, does Shakespeare 859 00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,799 Speaker 1: seemed more mysterious than the average person just because we're 860 00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:22,520 Speaker 1: looking I think it's largely also because the amount of 861 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,760 Speaker 1: It's not so much the amount of work he produced, 862 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,160 Speaker 1: because there were playwrights who wrote more than he did, 863 00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,600 Speaker 1: but it's the quality of the work that was produced. 864 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,920 Speaker 1: Once you get past the early juvenile efforts of Shakespeare, 865 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,279 Speaker 1: the Titus Andronicus, you know, the comedy of errors, that 866 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,080 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, and you start getting into when he 867 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,560 Speaker 1: was really coming into his own just play after play, 868 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,240 Speaker 1: he was writing things that still resonate with us today 869 00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,560 Speaker 1: and something that special, I think is what really drives 870 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:55,560 Speaker 1: our desire to know more. And it is so unsatisfying 871 00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:01,120 Speaker 1: to come up against just a darth of information about 872 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,279 Speaker 1: this person. And at this point, with the information we have, 873 00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:10,480 Speaker 1: the understanding we have in twenty nineteen, it does seem 874 00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:12,759 Speaker 1: that the answer to this question is similar to that 875 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,600 Speaker 1: old riddle about who's buried in Grant's tomb? So who 876 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,080 Speaker 1: really wrote the plays of William Shakespeare? As far as 877 00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,280 Speaker 1: the evidence indicates, it was this guy named William Shakespeare, 878 00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,800 Speaker 1: and he was from a town called Strafford upon Avon. 879 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,280 Speaker 1: He was born there. He went to London, he worked 880 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,919 Speaker 1: in London, and then he went back home and he died. 881 00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:36,360 Speaker 1: And he was a filthy actor associator. Yes, he was 882 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,600 Speaker 1: a known actor's sympathizer, unless that is there's still centuries 883 00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,720 Speaker 1: later something they whomever they are, don't want you to know, 884 00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:49,040 Speaker 1: and we want to hear from you. Are you still 885 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,440 Speaker 1: convinced that there was more to the story. Do you 886 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:57,280 Speaker 1: believe that there truly was someone behind the Shakespeare curtain. 887 00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,440 Speaker 1: If so, why, and if so, who was that person? 888 00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,000 Speaker 1: You can tell us about this on Instagram. You can 889 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,680 Speaker 1: tell us about this on Facebook. You can tell us 890 00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,080 Speaker 1: about this on Twitter. You can swing by and talk 891 00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,440 Speaker 1: to your fellow listens on our community page here's where 892 00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,680 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. Or you can call us directly. If 893 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,120 Speaker 1: you are anti stratford Ian and you are super offended 894 00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:22,320 Speaker 1: by this concept, then go ahead and leave us a voicemail. Yeah, 895 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,640 Speaker 1: even make us soliloquy of it if you want to 896 00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:31,280 Speaker 1: whatever you want to do it. Yes, we are one 897 00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,400 Speaker 1: H three three st d w y t K. That's 898 00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,320 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. In acronym form. 899 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,880 Speaker 1: It's also numbers you can dial in with your phone. Okay, 900 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,360 Speaker 1: So if you don't want to do any of that stuff, 901 00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,560 Speaker 1: you could you can always send us an email. But 902 00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,840 Speaker 1: before you do that, consider hitting up old Jonathan Strickland. 903 00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,920 Speaker 1: How do we find you? Jonathan? I find you? Or 904 00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,240 Speaker 1: you just go and check out my show Tech Stuff 905 00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,280 Speaker 1: and my other show of the Brink. Uh and uh. 906 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,200 Speaker 1: We do lots of shows about technology and companies, some 907 00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,560 Speaker 1: of which tends to cross over into your territory. We 908 00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:10,680 Speaker 1: did an episode our Tech stuff to an episode not 909 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:14,360 Speaker 1: long ago. Um about some more stuff with the N 910 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,680 Speaker 1: s A, which is always such a fun, fun organization 911 00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,520 Speaker 1: to talk about. We might need to update. Yeah, we've 912 00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,760 Speaker 1: also both appeared on your show at some point in 913 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,080 Speaker 1: the past. If you happen to be in the studio 914 00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,400 Speaker 1: with us and you want want to run into Jonathan, 915 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,000 Speaker 1: you can just hit this button we discovered that says 916 00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:35,440 Speaker 1: Strickland on it call back. I made it so inconvenient. 917 00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:39,320 Speaker 1: I was being I was just getting the coffee machine 918 00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:43,320 Speaker 1: has been pouring coffee this whole time. And and our 919 00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,080 Speaker 1: guest super producer Ramsey Ram jams Young, thank you again 920 00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:50,560 Speaker 1: for saving the show. My friend. We have we have 921 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,560 Speaker 1: impinged upon his time too too long. Now. I think 922 00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,240 Speaker 1: he's ready to go. And he dude, he leveled up 923 00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,080 Speaker 1: like four times while we were sitting here. I can 924 00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,960 Speaker 1: see it. I can see happening, leveled up as he 925 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,600 Speaker 1: attained his final four. We've got to go to the 926 01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,160 Speaker 1: We got to get out of the studio to find out. 927 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for checking out the show. We 928 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,040 Speaker 1: do want to hear from you, and we hope that 929 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:18,000 Speaker 1: you tune in for our next episodes. No spoilers, but 930 01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:23,000 Speaker 1: things are going to get curiouser and curiouser and curiouser. 931 01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,800 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, if you want to send us 932 01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:29,120 Speaker 1: that email, go ahead. We are conspiracy at how stuff 933 01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:50,000 Speaker 1: works dot com.