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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn Beast.

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Speaker 1: Start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Hello Bechdel Cast listeners.

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Speaker 1: Hello Jamie and Caitlyn.

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Speaker 3: Here a little plug at the top.

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Speaker 1: It's all coming together, It's all happening. I am going

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Speaker 1: to be going on a book tour for the paperback

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Speaker 1: release of my book Raw Dog, The Naked Truth about

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Speaker 1: Hot Dogs.

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Speaker 2: Ever heard of it?

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Speaker 1: It is coming out in soft cover this may. If

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Speaker 1: you're hearing this, it is out right now. If you

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Speaker 1: are the kind of person that doesn't want to spend

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Speaker 1: twenty eight dollars out of book, fair enough, we have

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Speaker 1: a more affordable option. And if you haven't purchased the

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Speaker 1: book and you know, maybe you're able to now, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's also a great gift. I've sound so desperate. The

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Speaker 1: thing is, it's a soft cover book, and people love those, and.

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Speaker 3: I love a flaccid book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a floppy little book. And if you do

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Speaker 1: have the hardcover and you're a completionist, there is also

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Speaker 1: a brand new ForWord that I wrote, and also the

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Speaker 1: acknowledgments have been adjusted to acknowledge that my agents were Zionists,

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Speaker 1: so I don't really thank them anymore. So there's a

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Speaker 1: thrilling edition there as well. But there is new stuff

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Speaker 1: in the book and it costs less, and we love that.

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Speaker 1: I will be going on tour throughout the country to

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Speaker 1: promote the new book, and if you're a Bechdel head

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Speaker 1: and you're in the area, this is a really great

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Speaker 1: chance to come and hang out. It's all I'm at bookstores.

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Speaker 1: I did kind of bigger shows the first time around,

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Speaker 1: but this time we're just chilling. So you kitling with

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Speaker 1: your permission. I'm just going to rattle off some dates.

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Speaker 1: What if I was like, no, no, click, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go pee.

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Speaker 3: No please, by all means tell us okay.

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Speaker 1: May thirteenth, twenty twenty five, almost my birthday. So I

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Speaker 1: know I'm missing your birthday. It's an act of violence.

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Speaker 1: I will be at North Fig Bookshop in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: hosted by friend of the cast Julia Clair May fourteenth.

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Speaker 1: I will be at Carmichael's Bookstore in Louisville, Kentucky. On

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Speaker 1: May fifteenth. I will be at the Cambridge Public Library

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Speaker 1: in Massachusetts with the Harvard Bookstore, and I will be

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Speaker 1: in conversation with one of my dear friends, PBS's own

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Speaker 1: Tory Bedford. On the nineteenth of May, I will be

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Speaker 1: in Portland, Maine at Longfellow Books, hosted by friend of

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Speaker 1: the cast Mayo Williams. I am very very excited. On

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Speaker 1: the twentieth, I will be going down to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: my home state. Know they're going to be begging, They're like,

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Speaker 1: where are they? I will be at the Midtown Scholar

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Speaker 1: Bookstore and Cafe in conversation with Joe Piazza. Then on

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Speaker 1: May twenty first, I will be at the Fountain Bookstore

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Speaker 1: in Richmond, Virginia. And on May twenty second, I will

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Speaker 1: be at Coppersfield Books in Pedaluma, California. And finally, on

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Speaker 1: May thirty first, I will be at Marin Country Mart,

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Speaker 1: which is also with Coppersfield's book in Larkspur, California. So

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Speaker 1: if you live in those areas, please come out. I

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Speaker 1: would love to see you. I'd love to chat. Please

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Speaker 1: recommend your favorite hot dog. Let's talk Beck tol cast,

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Speaker 1: Let's do whatever. And there will be dates announced later

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Speaker 1: in the summer. So if you would like a show

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Speaker 1: or a signing to happen in your town, please reach

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Speaker 1: out and I will send it to my publisher and

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Speaker 1: be like, see, I should go there. Anyways, that's a

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Speaker 1: great it's begging works sometimes and we'll link this full

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Speaker 1: thing and that isscription. But see you soon. I'm making

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Speaker 1: a little outfit and that's the Jamie Loftus promise.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait to see.

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Speaker 1: So if you click the link in the description, it

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Speaker 1: will take you to the full page where you can

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Speaker 1: register to go to these events. They are all free events,

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Speaker 1: so come and hang out and provided that I get

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Speaker 1: my shit together in time, there will also be speakers

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Speaker 1: from local unions at all of these signings, So come out,

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Speaker 1: make some friends, come hang out, and uh, let's eat

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Speaker 1: some hot dogs.

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Speaker 3: Beautiful. We'll throw the link to be able to access

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Speaker 3: registration for the events on our link tree as well

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Speaker 3: link tree slash Bechdel Cast, so there's no excuse not

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Speaker 3: to come.

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Speaker 1: It's free, it's fun. I'll be wearing a little outfit.

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Speaker 1: Come buy the book, yay, enjoy the episode the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Dig It All on, dig It dig It Out, dig.

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Speaker 1: It I Wow, I rewatched music video and it seared

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Speaker 1: into my brain.

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Speaker 3: Oh wait, I didn't know about the music video.

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Speaker 4: Oh, Caitlin show, you didn't know about ship?

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Speaker 1: Pause the show it just started.

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Speaker 5: But it's so good.

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Speaker 1: They're having such a nice time. The boys are having fun.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I believe it.

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Speaker 1: That's the most important thing about the music video. And

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Speaker 1: also the song is great and oh my gosh, two

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Speaker 1: thousand and three, what a time School of rock an

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Speaker 1: holes be serious? Wait, sorry, I you singing that song

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Speaker 1: just really put me in a great mood. And I

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Speaker 1: forgot what I was gonna say. Oh well, oh, I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say, we need to bring back movies where

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Speaker 1: there's a song during the credits that summarizes the movie

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Speaker 1: you just watched. Yes, you need that. We need to

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Speaker 1: bring it back. Maybe it is back in kids' movies.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just no longer a child. I hope it

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Speaker 1: never stopped. I find it difficult to believe that there

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Speaker 1: is a credit. This is like a Will Smith grade

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Speaker 1: credits song.

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Speaker 3: True Wild Wild West, Men in Black.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the list goes on. I think I'm not actually sure.

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Speaker 3: Might be just those two.

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Speaker 1: It might, but they're impactful, impactful, welcome, to the Bechdel Cast,

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Speaker 1: Do I think one of the one of our our

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Speaker 1: longest holdouts for a beloved movie.

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Speaker 3: Hold out whole out, whole.

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Speaker 2: Again?

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Speaker 3: We have our holes out on this episode.

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Speaker 1: During this children Yes, we have our holes out during

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Speaker 1: the Children's Prison Industrial Complex movie episode. My name's Jamie.

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Speaker 1: Locked is my holes not in a way? It's away?

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Speaker 3: So are mine talking about that?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 1: The hole in my damn face I is going to

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Speaker 1: be flapping.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's like that line from Titanic when the.

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Speaker 1: Wave you out shut that out? Yeah? All right, well

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Speaker 1: things have already is already erupting. What's your name?

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Speaker 3: My name is Caitlyn Durnteme awesome. And this is the

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Speaker 3: Bechdel Cast, a podcast where we examine movies through an

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Speaker 3: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test simply as a

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Speaker 3: jumping off point. But Jamie, what is it though?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you. The Bechtel Test is a media

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Speaker 1: metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, often called the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel Wallace Test. Created as a test in response to

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Speaker 1: the fact that queer women were never in movies at all,

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Speaker 1: it has since been sort of more generalized into what

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Speaker 1: we use. Our version of the test requires that two

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Speaker 1: characters of a marginalized gender with names talk to each

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Speaker 1: other about something other than a man for two lines

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Speaker 1: of dialogue. This is an interesting case. This is an

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Speaker 1: interesting case. We're spiritually this know this movie passes the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel test to.

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Speaker 3: Me, sure, but it is. But there is.

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Speaker 1: I think there's two women and one is dead. They

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Speaker 1: don't exist on the same timelines. So it's a challenge.

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Speaker 1: It's a challenge. Patricia Arquette and Sigourney Weaver are separated

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Speaker 1: by generations, true and political differences.

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Speaker 3: Yes, all of the above. Yeah, well, we'll talk about

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Speaker 3: that further, but we'll also talk about so many other

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Speaker 3: things because this is a rich text.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because it is a perfect movie.

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Speaker 3: It's so good. And joining us for this discussion is

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Speaker 3: writer actor. She's in an upcoming horror comedy movie called

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Speaker 3: Bad Karaoke. You know her from our past episodes on

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Speaker 3: Us Get Out and Cheetah Girls. It's Carama Donquay.

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Speaker 6: Welcome, Thank you for having me again. I would like

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Speaker 6: to just issue a correction right off the bat. Five

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Speaker 6: women in this movie.

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Speaker 1: That's true because there there's a lawyer Stanley's mother. Yes,

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Speaker 1: what else we got?

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Speaker 6: There's there's the former student of kissing Kate Barlowe, whose

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Speaker 6: name is said. And I think it passes because they

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Speaker 6: talk about how she used to be a student.

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Speaker 5: Right, yeah, okay, we're going to talk about the treasure.

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Speaker 6: So legally it passes, not just to you, Jamie, not

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Speaker 6: just spiritually.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that is that is a relief.

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Speaker 5: But it was it was tight.

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Speaker 1: It was very close, and they made us wait to

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Speaker 1: the very end. Then.

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Speaker 3: But I think maybe the lawyer and the warden also talk.

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Speaker 1: I think they're talking about Stanley.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they're talking about the boys at all times.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the crime as a.

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Speaker 5: Boy of man is a.

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Speaker 1: Man, no women and children. This is getting complicated. Thank

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Speaker 1: you Karma for solving the podcast right at the top.

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Speaker 1: And now we you just talk about the movie itself

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Speaker 1: because this is a rich text. Thank you for coming

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Speaker 1: onto the Wholes episode. Can you tell us about your

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Speaker 1: history with this movie, the book, the Holes Expanded universe.

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna start with something that sounds like it's not related.

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Speaker 6: I promise it is related. So recently, I was at

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Speaker 6: a family friend's house and one of her neighbors came

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Speaker 6: over and she was like, why do I know you?

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Speaker 6: And my friend Jackie was like, oh, well, Karama used

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Speaker 6: to come over all the time when we were little,

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Speaker 6: and she didn't have cable at her house, so she

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Speaker 6: would come over here. And so I had like a

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Speaker 6: cable friend, as many kids who didn't have cable had.

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Speaker 6: And I watched this at my cable friend's house when

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Speaker 6: I was growing up, and I would see the Diggot

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Speaker 6: music video on Disney Channel all the time. I still

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Speaker 6: knew all the words. I don't know if I can

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Speaker 6: say them on the podcast. I don't want to get

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Speaker 6: you guys in trouble for singing too much of it.

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Speaker 6: But when he started spelling like a MP at the TI,

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Speaker 6: I was like, yes, yes, this is rap music, this

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Speaker 6: is real rap music.

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Speaker 5: Migos step aside.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's all happening on Radio Disney. They even had

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Speaker 1: a band named De Tent Boys. Yes, yeah, this was

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Speaker 1: a single they were. I mean, this was run Ragged

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Speaker 1: on Radio Disney in the early two thousands, and I

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Speaker 1: was a.

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Speaker 6: Radio Disney kid when I moved to Ghana. When I

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Speaker 6: was little, my dad would send me cassette tapes of

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Speaker 6: like just hours of Radio Disney because I missed it

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Speaker 6: so much.

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Speaker 5: It's really sweet, I know, but also like scary that

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Speaker 5: the mouse had that much of a hold on me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the mouse will find you wherever we go. But

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Speaker 1: this is a rare I'm excited to talk about the

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Speaker 1: production of this movie because this seems like a very

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Speaker 1: rare Disney movie where it seems like they were relatively

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Speaker 1: hands off with this, and the director said it was

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Speaker 1: basically like creating an independent movie with Disney money, which

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Speaker 1: is cool. I'm excited to get into it because I

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Speaker 1: was surprised at because I reread. I got mostly through

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Speaker 1: the book to reread it before, and it's they've changed

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Speaker 1: so little because for once, they let the author write

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Speaker 1: the screenplay.

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Speaker 3: They never do that.

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Speaker 5: And also the main thing that they change.

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Speaker 6: I actually am for it because the main thing that

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Speaker 6: they changed for people who either haven't read the book

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Speaker 6: or don't remember the book is that Stanley is a

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Speaker 6: pretty chubby kid in the book, and.

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Speaker 5: Through digging he actually loses a lot of weight.

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Speaker 6: But they didn't want to put Shila buff in a

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Speaker 6: fat suit, and they didn't want to subject a child

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Speaker 6: to a major like Christian Bale weight shift. So I

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Speaker 6: think that that is actually, like, I'm all for a

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Speaker 6: fat representation in film.

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Speaker 5: I love that representation in film.

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Speaker 6: I think that this was the better choice in this

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Speaker 6: instance because I don't like fat suits. I think that

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Speaker 6: they're dehumanizing, and I don't like torturing children.

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Speaker 1: So they still tortured the children a little bit, but

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Speaker 1: mostly with heat. Yes, But but yeah, no, I totally agree.

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Speaker 1: I forgot that that was sort of the most major change,

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Speaker 1: and I don't Yeah, it's I felt like rereading the

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Speaker 1: book that it was, you know, I don't think meant

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Speaker 1: to be a cruel outcome, but it's sort of lent

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Speaker 1: this morality to Stanley's weight loss and and sort of

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Speaker 1: presented it as a well, at least he's not chubby anymore,

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Speaker 1: in a way that I felt like was not good

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Speaker 1: representation if they had adapted it in that way. On

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Speaker 1: top of what you're saying, the thing that was changed

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Speaker 1: that I wish it stayed was there was more context

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Speaker 1: for stan Lee's arrest. I get why they have to

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Speaker 1: keep it focused on zero, but he was like really

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Speaker 1: severely bullied in school, and they show like how his

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Speaker 1: bullying very much factored into his arrest, and like fear

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Speaker 1: of standing up for himself stuff. But other than that,

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Speaker 1: it's basically all they're They're dropping damns, they're cussing.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The adults are a series of unfortunate events, level evil

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Speaker 1: like it's great. So okay, so you so you you

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Speaker 1: watched it at cable friend's house.

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Speaker 6: Yes, that was a frequent rewatch because they would run

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Speaker 6: it on Disney Channel a lot. And I was a

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Speaker 6: big fan of Lewis Accer, the author. I was a

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Speaker 6: Wayside Stories girl from Wayside School.

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Speaker 5: Loved it.

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Speaker 6: Good Wayside School gets a Little Stranger my favorite of them.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, I gotta reread.

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Speaker 6: But I was a big fan of like that sort

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Speaker 6: of universe of like wacky but real. And I remember

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Speaker 6: distinctly Lewis Sacer had like three kids in the Wayside

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Speaker 6: School that had the same name, and I don't remember

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Speaker 6: their name, but he would describe one of them as

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Speaker 6: being tall and fat, and it's the first time it

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Speaker 6: occurred to me that somebody could be tall and fat.

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Speaker 6: But it was always like a very neutral descriptor. It

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Speaker 6: was just like, these are the way the kids look,

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Speaker 6: And I was like, whoa people can look all kinds

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Speaker 6: of ways that's wacky. So opened my mind up a

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Speaker 6: lot and a lot of love for this movie. I

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Speaker 6: have a lot of love for adaptations, specifically. I know

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Speaker 6: that you guys probably remember, but our listeners maybe don't that.

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Speaker 6: I used to be a co host of a podcast

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Speaker 6: called Popcorn Book Club where we talked about page to

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Speaker 6: screen adaptations, and I would constantly talk about Holes on

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Speaker 6: that podcast. We never covered it, but I was like, guys,

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Speaker 6: Holes is the perfect adaptation film. It is so true

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Speaker 6: to the original text, and when it is not true

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Speaker 6: to the text, that is.

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Speaker 5: True to the spirit of it. It is amazing.

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Speaker 6: And one of our co hosts had never seen it,

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Speaker 6: and I was just like, I don't know how you're

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Speaker 6: breathing air on this planet being an adult woman of

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Speaker 6: a certain age who has never seen Holes.

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Speaker 1: It is like a It is weird. It does feel

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Speaker 1: like it's such a beloved millennial classic, but I wonder

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Speaker 1: I don't know if kids are still finding it. I

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Speaker 1: hope they are probably not. I mean the unfortunately, the

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Speaker 1: shil abuff of it all does make it a harder

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Speaker 1: sell because he's a fucking monster. I think he's like

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Speaker 1: fourteen when this was, you know, child stardom should be illegal.

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Speaker 1: But that's a conversation for another day. But okay, I

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Speaker 1: also was a huge fan of the book and the movie.

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Speaker 1: I forget when I think this was just like at

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Speaker 1: every school in the early two thousands, like every kid

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Speaker 1: read these books read wayside school. There's a kind of

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Speaker 1: I had to look it up to be like, what

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Speaker 1: was that Lewis Sakar, he wrote, it's a B side,

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Speaker 1: Dogs Don't Tell Jokes. I remember reading Dogs Don't Tell

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Speaker 1: Jokes because it is about a child's stand up comic

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Speaker 1: who pees his pants, and I was like, wow, aspirational

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Speaker 1: me someday. And I guess that Dogs Don't Tell Jokes

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Speaker 1: had an impact on me because he's like, I had

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Speaker 1: to check the plot. Gary Boon, who calls himself Goon,

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Speaker 1: is the self proclaimed clown of his seventh grade class.

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Speaker 1: He never stops joking despite the fact that nobody laughs

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Speaker 1: much and he has no real friends. So he joins

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Speaker 1: a talent contest as a stand up comedian, and he

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Speaker 1: roasts everybody, and he hurts a lot of feelings, and

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Speaker 1: then he learns that being a stand up comic parentheses

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Speaker 1: evil is not the way to.

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Speaker 3: Go well at least a roast comedian.

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Speaker 1: It's true. Yes, he literally goes full roasting at the

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Speaker 1: store and then learns those people don't like that.

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Speaker 6: I think we need to wallpaper men's bathrooms in comedy

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Speaker 6: clugs with the pages.

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Speaker 1: Of this book with dogs. Don't tell you don't be

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Speaker 1: like Gary. It did not help him make friends just

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Speaker 1: like you. So but yeah, big lewis a car fan.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like you're saying, krama, the wayside school books

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Speaker 1: were so silly and like fantastical, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: he wrote holes as well, I mean, the range incredible.

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Speaker 1: I loved the book, loved the movie. Of course, Being

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Speaker 1: ten when this came out, I had a crush. I

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Speaker 1: had a crush on zero zero was my big time crush.

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Speaker 1: Cleo Thomas. I had a picture of him in my room. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: loved the song. But then, I mean, it's a great

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Speaker 1: movie to come back to, not only because there are

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Speaker 1: more crushes for you as you age, like today Hill,

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Speaker 1: who I know we're going to be talking about quite

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Speaker 1: a bit. He can fix that. But but just like

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Speaker 1: what a beautiful like you're saying, like, what a beautiful

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Speaker 1: adaptation it is. How it weaves together like five storylines

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Speaker 1: in this really effortless way, and that it is an

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Speaker 1: anti carceral children's book that is four kids but adapted

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Speaker 1: in a way that doesn't talk down to them. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's an amazing movie. I'm so excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 6: It's a real testament to the fact that people are like, oh,

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Speaker 6: kids can't understand that. Kids can't understand that, and no,

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Speaker 6: you just can't explain it, right, You're just not good

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Speaker 6: and explain there is a way for kids to understand

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Speaker 6: literally everything, Like, sorry, there are kids who are soldiers

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Speaker 6: in war in some parts of the world, Like they

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Speaker 6: can understand things. The way to explain it to them

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Speaker 6: is the issue. And I think that this is a

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Speaker 6: really good way to explain the school to prison pipeline,

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Speaker 6: issues with incarceration and just institutional racism.

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Speaker 5: Just all of this stuff is very.

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Speaker 6: Clearly outlined in a way that is developmentally appropriate.

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Speaker 3: Totally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and like puts a face in a name to

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Speaker 1: these issues. And I think the like maybe the only

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Speaker 1: unhoused character that I saw in movies as a kid

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Speaker 1: that is not played as a joke or as a

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Speaker 1: personal failing or you know how often we see on

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Speaker 1: like it's just it's so good, it's doing so much,

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Speaker 1: and then it has the audacity to be a really

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Speaker 1: good movie, I know. And what a cast. Anyways, Kaitlyn

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Speaker 1: wants her history with Holes.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I read the book in the late nineties, because

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Speaker 3: it was published in ninety eight. I probably read it

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Speaker 3: in ninety nine. I would have been a tween at

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Speaker 3: the time, and I loved it. And then the movie

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Speaker 3: came out a few years later and I saw it

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Speaker 3: in theaters. I would have been I think a junior

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Speaker 3: senior in high school at that point, so I was

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Speaker 3: old enough that my big crush was Dula Hill and

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Speaker 3: still to this day.

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Speaker 1: You're Not Made of Stone, Yeah, but.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was such an incredible story. And

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Speaker 3: then we got the movie on DVD and I watched

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Speaker 3: it with my sister on repeat, and I chose this

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Speaker 3: movie for my not to be a bit but it

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Speaker 3: is my birthday episode. Oh yay, So this is like

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Speaker 3: my birthday pick. That's how much I love this movie.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's without its flaws, but I think

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Speaker 3: the flaws are few and far between, especially considering it's

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Speaker 3: a movie from the early two thousands and that was

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Speaker 3: just a flawed time yeah, so, yeah, I deeply love

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Speaker 3: this movie and I'm so excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 6: I will say embarrassingly, I was twelve when it came out,

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Speaker 6: so my crush was Shilah buff which has not aged Well.

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Speaker 1: My Kurt wouldn't convict you. It made sense at the time.

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Speaker 1: He was on Even Stevens.

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Speaker 6: Loved Evan Stevens. My dance teacher. My dance teacher choreographed

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Speaker 6: Even Steven's Influenza. I remember when she had to miss

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Speaker 6: class because she was doing Even Steven's Influenza, and I

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Speaker 6: was just like, that's so cool.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that show was cooking. I think about the song

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Speaker 1: about going to space a lot. We went to the

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Speaker 1: Moon in nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 5: Nine, not nineteen seventy, the year before four.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh oh no, it's a millennial circle jerk episode. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing.

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Speaker 3: I was one of the Friends without Cable as well,

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Speaker 3: So I've never seen a single episode of Even Stevens,

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Speaker 3: and I think I probably was aged out of it anyway.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know what you guys are talking about.

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Speaker 1: I know, I don't think there's any need to return.

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Speaker 1: It was just the age of the musical episode Even

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Speaker 1: Stevens had a musical episode and it was iconic, memorable.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it was called Influenza, as one of the main

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Speaker 6: characters had the flu and so she was like having

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Speaker 6: a fever dream and everybody was singing in the fever dream.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, fine, but this is uh.

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Speaker 1: I think this is Shia Labuff's first movie.

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Speaker 6: It's introducing in the credits. I was like, oh, like

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Speaker 6: I was. I was a little emotional. I was just like, wow,

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Speaker 6: that's where it all started.

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Speaker 1: Yikes, and oh that it had gone another way. But

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Speaker 1: the kids, I mean, it's very famous adult cast and

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Speaker 1: then a bunch of kids outside of chilah Buff I

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Speaker 1: think mostly unknowns. I think Cleo Thomas had done some stuff.

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Speaker 1: I saw he was on Kids Say the Darndest Things,

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Speaker 1: so he was child starring out. But so Gourney Weaver,

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Speaker 1: John Voight, Tim Blake Nelson, Henry Winkler. I remember my

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Speaker 1: mom being like, that's the Fonds because we will watch

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Speaker 1: Happy Days on Nick at night and I was like,

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Speaker 1: why isn't he cool anymore?

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Speaker 3: And earth A Kitar the Kid, Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: One of her final film performances Delay Hill Patricia Arquette,

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Speaker 1: and they managed to make the movie for seventeen million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Don't know how that worked, but yeah, they brought a

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Speaker 1: bunch of kids to the desert and made one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest movies of all time.

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Speaker 3: Yes, let's take a quick break and then we'll come

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Speaker 3: back for the cap.

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Speaker 1: And we're back.

437
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 6: Okay.

438
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 3: Here is the story of Holes. We open on a

439
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 3: place that we will learn is a juvenile detention facility

440
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 3: where teenage boys are out in the hot sun digging

441
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 3: holes in the dirt. One of them purposefully gets bitten

442
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 3: by a rattlesnake so that he can be sent home,

443
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: and that's going to open up a spot at this facility.

444
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: And you're all like, immediate. I hadn't seen this movie

445
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: in a couple of years, and I was like, oh,

446
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: from moment one, they're not fucking around.

447
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 5: This is a dark, cold open.

448
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 6: I would rather potentially die, literally die.

449
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: Than another hole, which was added for the mo It

450
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: does not happen in the book. They're just like something

451
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: something barf bag. But they started as a full on,

452
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: like active You're just like okay, okay, director of the Fugitive,

453
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: Let's Go. Let's Go.

454
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 3: Also one of my favorite movies.

455
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: I've never seen it. I just thought it was like,

456
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: what a this is? I think his first and only

457
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: children's movie.

458
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 3: I think so yeah, because he had been known for

459
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 3: action movies.

460
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: Collateral Damage came out like so weird.

461
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 3: It does happen in the book that barf bag gets bitten,

462
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 3: but it happens off screen, Like you don't see that

463
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 3: scene play out. They just reference it after the fact.

464
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 3: But in any case. We cut to stan Lee Yonnat's

465
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 3: the fourth played by Shilah buff who is on his

466
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 3: way to this facility because he was wrongfully accused and

467
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 3: arrested for stealing a pair of shoes that seemed to

468
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 3: have fallen from the sky and land on his head.

469
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: And he goes on to say that he has bad

470
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 3: luck and he always seems to be in the wrong

471
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 3: place at the wrong time, which his family blames on

472
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 3: a one hundred and fifty year old family curse. We

473
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 3: meet his mom played by Chavon Fallen Hogan, and his

474
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 3: dad played by Henry Winkler, who is an inventor trying

475
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 3: to find the cure for foot odor. We also meet

476
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 3: his grandfather, all of whom Stanley has to leave behind

477
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 3: when a judge sentences him to eighteen months at the

478
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: detention facility called Camp Green Lake, where there used to

479
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 3: be a lake, but it dried up long ago and

480
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: now it's a barren wasteland as far as the eye

481
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: can see. At Camp Green Lake, Stanley meets mister Sir

482
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 3: played by John Voight, who tells Stanley that he's expected

483
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 3: to dig one hole in the dirt every single day.

484
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: It has to be five feet deep, five feet in diameter,

485
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 3: and this will build character quote unquote, I love.

486
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: How instantly, Yeah, like how instantly it is clear to

487
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: kids and anyone how ridiculous this is. Or it's like

488
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: that line where it's like, yeah, you bring a boy

489
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: to camp and you make him dig a hole every

490
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: day and he turns into a good boy, and that's

491
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: our belief. You're like, ah's that is just describing prison.

492
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm just like, yeah, holes they make you so wholesome.

493
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 2: They didn't even try. They didn't even try. It was

494
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: right there.

495
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: They're like, no, dig a hole, be a good boy.

496
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 3: You're like, okay, right. Mister Starr also tells Stanley to

497
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: beware of yellow spotted lizards, who are highly poisonous and lethal,

498
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 3: and if one bites you, you will die a slow

499
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: and painful death.

500
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: Really good two thousand and three, CGI on the Lizards.

501
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: You're like, there was a tennis ball there.

502
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 5: You can almost steel the tennis.

503
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: Energy with a racket.

504
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 3: So then we meet Stanley's counselor, doctor Pandanski played by

505
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 3: Tim Blake Nelson, who assigns him to d tent where

506
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 3: Stanley meets other incarcerated teens who he'll be digging holes

507
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 3: next to. They all have nicknames like x Ray, Zigzag, Squid, Armpit, Magnet,

508
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 3: and Zero Zero, who doctor Pandensky is especially cruel to

509
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,959
Speaker 3: because he thinks Zero is unintelligent and worthless.

510
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: Doctor Pandanski is such a fascinating care again, just like

511
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: another adult pretending to be good who is actually fucking

512
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: awful and talks shit about the kids he's supposed to

513
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: be taken care of behind our backs. The first second

514
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: he gets I think again, I've only seen it in

515
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: series of unfortunate events, like adults who are as bad

516
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: as it seems.

517
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 6: And also from jump we get that he is very

518
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 6: much about calling the kids by their government names, even

519
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 6: though they have names and they'd like to be called

520
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 6: And then like it's giving what your name is Toby,

521
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 6: what's your name? Not like that?

522
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 5: And except for zero, he keeps.

523
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 6: Calling zero zero, and it's like, there's nothing going on

524
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 6: up there, your little dumb dummy.

525
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: Right, And he like explicitly says that he feels comfortable

526
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: doing that because no one is looking out for zero

527
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: and so he doesn't matter, like it's just like it's

528
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought it's a good performance too,

529
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: because he's really putting on the hateful guidance counselor vibe

530
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: big time. And then you find out at the ante

531
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: never got.

532
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: His degree, and you're like, fuck this guy, right, So

533
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 3: stan Lee settles in and starts to learn the ropes.

534
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: He reveals that the shoes he was accused of stealing

535
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: belonged to Livingston, a famous baseball player, who had donated

536
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: those shoes to be sold at a charity auction to

537
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 3: raise money for an unhoused shelter. And so that's why

538
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 3: it was like such a huge deal that Stanley is

539
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: presumed to have stolen them and why he's sent to.

540
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: This and he, like the famous baseball player literally calls

541
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: a child a horrible person in court. So I was like,

542
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: easy man, easy, He's like twelve.

543
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 3: So then we flash back to Stanlee with his mom, dad,

544
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 3: and grandpa, who talk about the family curse how Stanley's

545
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: great grandpa made a fortune in the stock market but

546
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 3: was robbed by a famous outlaw kissing Kate Barlow due

547
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: to the family curse and his bad luck. We'll find

548
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: more about the curse soon, but back to the present,

549
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 3: Stanley starts digging his first hole. He's told that if

550
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 3: he finds anything that the warden thinks is interesting, he

551
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 3: could get the rest of the day off. So he

552
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 3: starts digging and it's hot and difficult and grueling, and

553
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 3: then we flash back to stan Lee's no good, dirty, rotten,

554
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 3: pig stealing great great grandfather, Elia Yell Nats, who lives

555
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: in a small village in Latvia. He's in love with

556
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 3: a woman named Myra Menke, who he wants to marry,

557
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: but her father wants her to marry a different man

558
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: because that guy is offering him his biggest pig in

559
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 3: exchange for his daughter because women equal property. So Elia

560
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: goes to a fortune teller named Madame Zarni played by

561
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 3: the legend earth A Kit.

562
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: Who I only knew at the time as you're like

563
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: it's Easma from the other movie. And then later you

564
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: find out she is a legend.

565
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, like the President was scared of her at one point. Legend.

566
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so good.

567
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 3: Yes, And she tells Ellia to carry a baby pig

568
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: up a mountain and let it drink from the stream

569
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 3: while he sings to it over the course of I

570
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 3: don't know, a few weeks or something, and it will

571
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 3: make the pig grow and then he'll have a pig

572
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: to offer Myra's father. And then Madames Roney says, okay,

573
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 3: when you're done with that, Now you have to carry

574
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: me up the mountain so I can drink from the

575
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 3: stream and get strong. And if you fail to do that,

576
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: I will put a curse on your family for always

577
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 3: an eternity.

578
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: That line read really stuck with me, always an eternity,

579
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: Like it's such a good read.

580
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And Ellia forgets to honor this promise before he

581
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 3: immigrates to the US, hence the yell NAT's family curse.

582
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 3: Back to Stanley, he finishes his first hole and then

583
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 3: it's either the next day or a few days later,

584
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: but Stanley finds a fossil in his hole and shows

585
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 3: it to Pendanski hoping that the warden will find it

586
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 3: interesting and that he'll get the rest of the day off.

587
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 3: But the warden is not interested in fossils. Now, x Ray,

588
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 3: who's kind of the leader of the boys who live

589
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 3: in Dtent, tells Stanley to give him anything else he

590
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: finds since x Ray has like seniority. Then we flash

591
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: back to one hundred or so years ago when there

592
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 3: was a lake in this location. We meet Sam played

593
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 3: by Julae Hill, who is an onion farmer and he

594
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: sells all kinds of medicinal onion based remedies. And then

595
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 3: we also meet a school teacher who makes spiced peaches,

596
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: Mss Catherine played by Patricia Arquette.

597
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: And you're like, these actors are hot. I wonder what

598
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: will happen.

599
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, the two of them are vibing and they exchange,

600
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 3: you know, onions and peaches. Then we also meet this

601
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 3: rich prick named trout Walker, who has taken a liking

602
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 3: to Miss Catherine and will return to this storyline. But

603
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 3: in the meantime, back in the present, Stanley's peers finally

604
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 3: give him a nickname, Caveman, so he's like one of

605
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:32,439
Speaker 3: them now. Then he learns that zero the kid who

606
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 3: mostly keeps to himself. He only seems to talk to

607
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 3: caveman slash Stanley, and we find out that he cannot read,

608
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 3: so Zero asks Stanley if he'll teach him to read,

609
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: but Stanley says that he's too tired at the end

610
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 3: of every day and he just wants to chill. The

611
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 3: next day, Stanley finds something peculiar while he's digging his hole.

612
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 3: It's this like small golden cylindrical tube that looks like

613
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 3: it might be a bullet or a shellcasing of some kind,

614
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 3: and it has the letters KB engraved on it. So

615
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 3: Stanley gives it to x Ray per his request, who

616
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 3: shows it to Pandanski, who calls the warden, and we

617
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 3: finally see the warden on screen, who turns out to

618
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 3: be a whoa whoa whoa woman?

619
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 5: What women can be bad too?

620
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: Lewis Nakara is not afraid to say it.

621
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: Oh her nail polish. That is such a good detail

622
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: at Oh that scene in the book like really stuck

623
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: with me where she puts on her evil lady nail

624
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: polish and then slaps John backhands John voy she's doing it.

625
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 1: I didn't never realize she's also wearing a sports braw

626
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: In that scene, You're like, this is nuts, Like she

627
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: just finished doing like yoga on zoom and then she

628
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: like almost kills John Voyd.

629
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty awesome. That happens a little later. First, yes,

630
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: we meet her, it's so Corney Weaver. She gives x

631
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 3: Ray the rest of the day off for finding this

632
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 3: interesting item, and then she orders everyone to dig around

633
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 3: x Ray's hole, thinking that that's where the bullet thing

634
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 3: came from, but we all know that it came from

635
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 3: a different hole of Stanley's. Then we flash back to

636
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 3: Miss Catherine and Sam. He helps her fix up the schoolhouse.

637
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 3: If there's a leaky roof or a broken window. He says,

638
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 3: I can fix that, and they're falling in love. And meanwhile,

639
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 3: that rich fuck trout Walker wants to take Miss Catherine

640
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 3: out for a picnic, but she declines and he does

641
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: not handle rejection. Well. Yeah, and one night he sees

642
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 3: Miss Catherine and Sam kissing in the schoolhouse.

643
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: Because he sees her crying and says, I can fix that.

644
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: It's really that would work.

645
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 6: On the iphear I folded like a lawn chair, Like

646
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 6: I'm done, let's close the windows.

647
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: We're having a party, one of the most popular letterbox reviews.

648
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: Will someone tell mister I can fix that that my

649
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: pussy's broken?

650
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, that's amazing.

651
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: I also love that there is this It's like, not

652
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: it's a whatever, like one of a million themes in

653
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: this movie, but that even in the flashbacks, there is

654
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: this theme of literacy and gate keeping education because she

655
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: also teaches night classes to the same men who are

656
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: fucking creeping on her. But it's like the movie isn't

657
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. The movie is saying like, these guys

658
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: are awful, but also they are you know, like at

659
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: a disadvantage as well.

660
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 6: And she believes that despite the fact that they are awful,

661
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 6: they deserve the you know, privileges that literacy Ford's one

662
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 6: in society, right. And on top of that, she's reading

663
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 6: the kids like an Edgar Allan Poe poem and Sam

664
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 6: can the poem and I'm like, oh, Stallar, we love it,

665
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 6: love it. He's so fine.

666
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: I think it is. I think it is an one

667
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: of those Edgar Allan Poe poems that is like about

668
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: fucking his cousin. But the spirit of it.

669
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: It's the spirit of it it's fine.

670
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: Annabel Lee was redeemed by delay Hill also.

671
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 6: Petition to start calling them Edgar Allan Poems. I just

672
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 6: feel like it's it's.

673
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 3: Cleaner, it's right there.

674
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that's your ear doing justin Timberlake in the

675
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: social note and then just stomp out of the room.

676
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 6: Right.

677
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,439
Speaker 3: So, yes, this is a white woman and a black

678
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 3: man kissing in Jim Crow, Texas. So trout Walker sees this.

679
00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 3: He alerts the town people, who start a riot. They

680
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 3: burn down the schoolhouse, they go after Sam. Miss Catherine

681
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 3: tells the sheriff, who has no intention of stopping any

682
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: of this.

683
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: No, he just like hits on her.

684
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 3: He harasses and prays on her.

685
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 6: I've been called slurs in my life. I gotta say

686
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 6: Onion Picker was scarily slurry when he was like, kiss

687
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 6: the onion picker.

688
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: I feel it, Yeah, onion Picker with a hard R.

689
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 3: That's a lot, yeah yeah yeah. And right after this,

690
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 3: the racist mob catches up to Sam. They kill his

691
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 3: beloved donkey Mary Lou, and they murder Sam. We cut

692
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 3: back to the present. The boys are still digging collectively

693
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: while the warden supervises and clearly expects them to find something,

694
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 3: but nothing else is found because, to quote Raiders of

695
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 3: the Lost Arc, they're digging in the wrong place. Wow,

696
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: so thank you so much.

697
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 1: It's a little Seinfeld edge to that.

698
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: That's just how they say it in the movie. That

699
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 3: was unintentional, but the warden has them returned to digging

700
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 3: individual holes when no other items are found. Back to

701
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 3: the past, Miss Catherine pays another visit to the sheriff

702
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 3: and kills him for not preventing the racist mob murdering Sam.

703
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 3: And this is the start of her becoming the famous

704
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 3: outlaw kissing Kate Barlow. We cut back to the present.

705
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: Magnet steals mister Sirr's sunflower seeds from his truck and

706
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 3: Stanley takes the blame for it. And so this is

707
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 3: the scene, Jamie, that you were talking about where mister

708
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 3: Sir takes Stanley to see the warden, but rather than

709
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 3: getting in trouble, the warden smacks mister Surr's face while

710
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 3: she has wet rattlesnake, venom nail polish on.

711
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: Ooh ooh wah.

712
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: It is a very like feminist You know, you could

713
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: make your arguments against it, but it's just such a

714
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: good idea that I will not be hearing criticisms of

715
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 1: the snake Venom nail.

716
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 6: Pasha, and Mister responds by saying, all I do is

717
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 6: give you love and affection.

718
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's implied that he has a crush on her

719
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 3: because he's always like fixing his hair when he's about

720
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 3: to see her and stuff.

721
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: It's also it's another I mean John Voyd, another bad man, yes,

722
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: who gives a really great performance in this It's true.

723
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 3: Yeah. So Stanley returns to his hole and he discovers

724
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 3: the Zero finished digging it for him, and so Stanlee

725
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 3: offers to teach Zero to read after all, and in exchange,

726
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 3: Zero will help Stanley dig his hole every day. So

727
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 3: they start lessons and Zero is like, by the way,

728
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: my real name is Hector's Zerny, And we're like, hmm,

729
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 3: where have we heard the name Zarny before. So then

730
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 3: Hector tells Stanley about his past, how he and his

731
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 3: mom moved around a lot, then they became unhoused and

732
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 3: one day his mom had to leave him somewhere and

733
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 3: she didn't come back, and Hector never found out what

734
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 3: happened to her. And he says, if I could, I

735
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 3: would hire a whole team of private investigators to find her.

736
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 3: We'll put a pin in that. The other boys meanwhile

737
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 3: resent that Stanley is getting help digging his hole, and

738
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 3: a fight breaks out and it culminates in Hector hitting

739
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 3: Pendanski in the head with a shovel and running off.

740
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: That Zero is the best character.

741
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 3: Oh, he truly.

742
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: Beats the shit out of you. Oh he's so great.

743
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: There's a quote from Because there was a There was

744
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 1: a I think it was like two years ago. There

745
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: was a short oral history for the twentieth anniversary, and

746
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: Cleia Thomas says Zero is not the most Disney friendly character.

747
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: Like he was grabbing eight balls ready to fight. He

748
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: hit a guy with a shovel, he choked somebody out.

749
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about how this character I'm playing might

750
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: be the biggest gangster in Disney history. It was crazy,

751
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 1: and I kind of forget how like Zero, I mean,

752
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: he stands up for himself. He's the coolest.

753
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 3: It's awesome. So Zero aka Hector runs away from camp.

754
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 3: The warden, Mister Cyr and Pandanski discuss deleting Hector's 'errony's

755
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 3: files and pretending like he was never at Camp Green

756
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 3: Lake because he's a ward of the state. There's no

757
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 3: known family looking for him, so they're like, we can

758
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 3: just basically delete his existence from ever having been here.

759
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 3: So Stanley's thinking about Hector now being out in this

760
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: barren wasteland with no water, no food, no shelter from

761
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 3: the elements kind of thing, and he recalls his grandpa

762
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 3: telling him about his great grandpa who kissing Kate Barlow,

763
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 3: robbed and left stranded in the desert for sixteen days,

764
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 3: and how he apparently found refuge on God's thumb, whatever

765
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: that means. Then a new kid named Twitch arrives to

766
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 3: take Hector's spot at the camp and he helps Stanley

767
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: steal mister Sirr's truck, which Stanley drives off to find Hector.

768
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 3: He almost immediately drives it into a hole, but Stanley

769
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 3: keeps going. He runs off away from camp and he

770
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 3: finds an overturned boat in the dirt where Hector's hiding out.

771
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 3: Hector offers Stanley some Splosh, which is the one hundred

772
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: year old spiced peaches that Miss Catherine made and gave

773
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 3: to Sam. Because this is Sam's boat.

774
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: It's all connected.

775
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 3: So I think the worst part of this movie slash

776
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 3: book story in general is the words.

777
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they.

778
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 3: Really needed to do a second draft on that. But anyway,

779
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 3: I think it's.

780
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 6: A fun word for kids, but like as an adult

781
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 6: and like it sounds too much like things.

782
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I don't want to.

783
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 5: Think about Hector's rony drinking things.

784
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: I also is like, I feel like I have looked

785
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: this up on past years, like can peaches like last

786
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: like that?

787
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 3: I think if they're preserved properly, right, maybe I.

788
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 5: Just assume it's a little magic.

789
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,479
Speaker 4: Also, to be fair, he gets immediately ill from that's true.

790
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: He just started throwing up the passing for days. That's true.

791
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: That's true.

792
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 3: So Stanley and Hector try to figure out what to

793
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 3: do next. In the distance, they see a mountain that's

794
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 3: sort of in the shape of a thumbs up, and

795
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 3: they think maybe that's what Stanley's great grandpa meant about

796
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 3: finding refuge on God's thumb. So they head there. They

797
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: climb the mountain. It's a long difficult journey. Hector gets

798
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 3: stick along the way from drinking this blush. So Stanley

799
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 3: carries Hector Zarny aka Madam Zarroni's great great great grandson

800
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 3: up the Mountain to drink from the water they find there,

801
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 3: which effectively lifts the yell NAT's family curse. They find

802
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 3: a bunch of onions and eat them because also this

803
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 3: was Sam's secret onion garden. Again it's all connected. And

804
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 3: then also at this exact moment back at Stanley's house,

805
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 3: Stanley's dad finally invents the cure to foot odor and

806
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 3: the secret ingredients peaches and onions.

807
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: I don't yeah, again, there you have to magic it

808
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: a little bit to be like onions cure or did

809
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: it just make odor smell.

810
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 5: They were boiled? I don't know. I believe.

811
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: I believe that the fawn's cured foot oder.

812
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 5: I'm not a chemist.

813
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 6: I don't know what's in the onion that interacts with

814
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 6: the peach that makes.

815
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 3: It smell real, because a caramelized onion has a very

816
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 3: sweet night true's and taste.

817
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: It is beautiful that the legacy of their love cured foot.

818
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 5: I wanted to cry a little bit.

819
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: It's really nice.

820
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, while Hector and Stanley rest and recover, Hector

821
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 3: reveals that it was him who stole Clyde Livingston's famous

822
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 3: baseball shoes and it's his fault that Stanley got arrested

823
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 3: and sent to Camp Green Lake, but Stanley is not upset.

824
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 3: He's just like this is destiny, and he suggests they

825
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 3: go back to camp and dig one last hole in

826
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 3: the spot where Stanley originally found that gold tube, which

827
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 3: he thinks is probably a tube of lips stick and

828
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 3: that the KB stands for Kate Barlow. Meanwhile, back at camp,

829
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 3: a lawyer that Stanley's family hired played by Roma Mafia

830
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 3: shows up to collect Stanley, but the warden kind of

831
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 3: shows her away and tells her to come back with

832
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: a signed court order. Obviously because Stanley's not there. He

833
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 3: ran away, so she has to make up an excuse.

834
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 3: And now the warden and mister sirr and Pandansky are

835
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 3: panicking because they assume Stanley is dead out in the desert.

836
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he quote unquote matters because his family has

837
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 1: secured a lawyer, right.

838
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. We flash back to kissing Kate Barlow being approached

839
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 3: by Trout Walker and his wife wanting to know where

840
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 3: she buried all the loot she stole.

841
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: She somehow found Turn of the century like hair Bleach's

842
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,240
Speaker 1: a she's got a new wig.

843
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 3: Well, she's out in the sun all the time, and

844
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:57,479
Speaker 3: it's true.

845
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: It looks good.

846
00:48:58,360 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: It looks good.

847
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, but Kate is like you and your family can

848
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 3: dig for the next one hundred years and you will

849
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 3: never find my treasure. And that's what Camp Green Like

850
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: is all about, because the warden is a descendant of

851
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 3: Trout Walker and she is using unpaid child prison labor

852
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,240
Speaker 3: to dig holes to search for Kissing Kate Barlow's treasure.

853
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 3: Stanley and Hector returned to camp and they start expanding

854
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 3: the hole where Stanley found the lipstick tube and they

855
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 3: find a treasure chest. But just then the warden, Mister

856
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 3: Sir and Pandanski show up and catch them, but they

857
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 3: can't really do anything because they realize that the hole

858
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 3: is filled with a dozen of those highly lethal yellow

859
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 3: spotted lizards that are crawling all over but not attacking

860
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,439
Speaker 3: Stanley and Hector because they've eaten all those onions, which

861
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 3: are a natural lizard repellent.

862
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,720
Speaker 1: Hey, for a movie about holes, there's not a single

863
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: hole in the plot of the movie. There's true, everything

864
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: is explained, yea, and it all is like a cross

865
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: generational Oh, it's so good.

866
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: A few hours later, Stanley's lawyer returns the warden makes

867
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 3: up a story about how Stanley broke into her cabin

868
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 3: and stole her trunk, but Hector is like, no, this

869
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 3: trunk belongs to Stanley. It's got his name on it,

870
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 3: and sure enough, the name Stanley Yellnatz is carved into

871
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 3: the trunk because this is the treasure that belonged to

872
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 3: his great grandfather. This means Stanley and Hector are free,

873
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,919
Speaker 3: as are all the other boys, because Camp Green Lake

874
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,439
Speaker 3: is shut down and the warden, Mister Sir, and Pandanski

875
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 3: are arrested. It also starts raining in this area for

876
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 3: the first time in one hundred years, in a scene

877
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 3: that felt a lot to me like a movie that

878
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 3: we have either just released or were covering soon, The

879
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 3: Shashank Redemption Where when and now? Okay, now I always

880
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: mix up Tim Robbins and Tim Robinson, but anyway, Tim Robbins.

881
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: Very different guys, so different.

882
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 3: But their names are too similar. Anyway, Tim Robbins when

883
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 3: he spoiler alert, finds freedom and it's pouring rain and

884
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 3: he's like, ah, so it felt like that to me anyway.

885
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 5: Wow, I was gonna watch that movie.

886
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 3: So yeah, sorry for spoiling now. A thirty year old movie,

887
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 3: it reigns.

888
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: Then he goes.

889
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 3: Ah, okay, So we cut to Stanley and Hector at

890
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 3: the yell NAT's house. They open the trunk. It's full

891
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 3: of gold and jewels and stocks and bonds. Question Mark,

892
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 3: I don't know what those papers are.

893
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,439
Speaker 1: And for some reason, Stanley is the one that knows

894
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: about how money has appreciated over the last like century,

895
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: because his mom's like, Stanley, what do you think? I

896
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: was like, what is daily know about banking? He's you know,

897
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: he's in middle school, but he knows.

898
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 5: He takes math class.

899
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: I believe that He's like, it's worth at least a

900
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: million dollars. I was like, good, good math on your

901
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: feet man's and and I really it'll it like makes

902
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 1: me so much of the end of this movie makes

903
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: me tear up. But the fact that, like, even before

904
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: they know Zero is a Zeroni and connected to the

905
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: history of their family, they agree to give him half

906
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: of whatever is in there, and it's like mm hmmm, collective,

907
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: I know it's great and.

908
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 5: Like, no, no fight the parents.

909
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 6: Ye have windos to Hector, one for us, one for

910
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 6: mister Saroni, one for us, one for mister Sni And

911
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 6: then the grandfather embraces Hector and kisses him.

912
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, oh, it's really nice, so nice.

913
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,760
Speaker 3: And then Hector uses some of his money to hire

914
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 3: a team of private investigators to track down his mom,

915
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 3: which he does, and they reunite and embrace and that's

916
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 3: also very sweet and tearful. And then the movie ends

917
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,959
Speaker 3: with all of the boys from d tent at Stanley's

918
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 3: nice new house with a pool. They gather around the

919
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:16,720
Speaker 3: TV to watch a commercial where that baseball player Clyde

920
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:21,959
Speaker 3: Livingston is the spokesman for Splosh, which is stan Lee's

921
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 3: dad's product for treating foot odor.

922
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: The end, and You're like, sure he's also I didn't know.

923
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: I guess that that guy, the guy who plays Clyde

924
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: Livingston was Rick Fox. Yeah, but he played for like

925
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: the Celtics and the Lakers, and like was a pro athlete.

926
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: Didn't know, I don't know enough about sports.

927
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 6: Why didn't then make him a basketball player?

928
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: So because because like Mike had just come out, they're like,

929
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: there's two basketball shoes of it's played out in children's media.

930
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 6: Fair.

931
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: That's honestly my guess, but I have no idea.

932
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyway, so that's the movie. Let's take a quick

933
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 3: break and we'll come back to discuss.

934
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 1: And where back. I wanted to say just the one

935
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: thing about this movie, and I didn't finish rereading the book,

936
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,919
Speaker 1: so I don't remember or I don't know like how

937
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: this is dealt with in the book. There is like

938
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: in a movie that is shockingly not Disneyfied in most ways.

939
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: The ending does feel a little Disneyfied to me, but

940
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: only in the one scene where you know, it's so

941
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 1: critical of justice and of the school to prison pipeline

942
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 1: and all of these things that you never see discussed

943
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: in media, much less children's media. But at the end

944
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: when you know, it's like, oh, well, it's just that

945
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: the state didn't know that this is how the prison

946
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 1: was being run, but now that they know, they're gonna

947
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: take care of it, and like that was the only

948
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: sort of disney fire plot point for me. It was like,

949
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: because that is sort of what you're taught of, Like, oh, well,

950
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 1: if you're if they're doing something bad, it's only because

951
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: surely nobody knows it's not inherent to the system that

952
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: it's a part.

953
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 3: Of I did fully reread the book a couple days ago. Yeah,

954
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 3: I mean me reading a book. Wow, good, thank you.

955
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 3: But I tend to agree. There is a moment in

956
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: the movie which it does feel very cathartic, when like, yeah,

957
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 3: the warden and mister sir and like the officials at

958
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:42,720
Speaker 3: the camp are arrested and humiliated and all this stuff

959
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 3: that doesn't really happen. In the book, there is a

960
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 3: reference to how Camp Green Lake gets shut down and

961
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 3: will be converted into a Girl Scout Camp.

962
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: Which at one point was going to become a Disney

963
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: Plus series.

964
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 3: I think it's still in development.

965
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, what isn't that bizarre? I was kind of like, yeah,

966
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: I'd watch it. I don't know.

967
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,760
Speaker 6: They could have just kept making Bunked. I don't understand

968
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 6: they canceled Bunked a show Camp. And also, this is

969
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 6: my listen. If you are a Disney executive, call me,

970
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 6: because I think that we I know that everything's a reboot,

971
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 6: even Fascism right now, but I think that we need

972
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 6: to reboot Bug Juice.

973
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,959
Speaker 2: And I was gonna say, a great camp show.

974
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 6: I don't know why, because like it's unscripted, it's gonna

975
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 6: be super cheap to produce.

976
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 5: It's you know, get those kid influencers started early. I guess.

977
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: Bug Juice was so awesome. Kids shows were really gross,

978
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 1: like I because that was like Baby Survivor.

979
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 3: I have never heard of this. I don't know what

980
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 3: you're talking about, but yeah.

981
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 6: It was like a camp reality show. It was like

982
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 6: kids at Summer Camp, and it was like the trials

983
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 6: and tribulations of the drama of summer Camp.

984
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 5: So I'm like, if you want to make a camp show, either.

985
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 6: Bring back the script camp show that you literally just canceled,

986
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 6: or you know, you have to renegotiate everybody's contract blah

987
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 6: blah blah, or bring back Bug Juice a show that

988
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 6: needs to be brought back.

989
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 5: I think about this all the.

990
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: Time because I don't and you're totally right, it like

991
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:19,919
Speaker 1: it fits influencer culture absurdly. Well, yeah, huh.

992
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 3: So the Disney plus TV adaptation that's I think still

993
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 3: in development. I don't know much about it, but basically

994
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 3: it's an adaptation of the book. So it's not necessarily

995
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 3: about like fun summer Camp. It's about like prison labor camp.

996
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 3: But it is like a quote unquote all female reboot,

997
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 3: which I don't know how that will go exactly.

998
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: That's what makes me think it is not going to

999
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: be made because I feel like that time has come

1000
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: and gone and what so has Disney plus making like

1001
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: original content ruined it?

1002
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think both All Lady Goes to My was

1003
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 6: the start of the death knell, and then Katy perry

1004
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 6: Space Journey is like.

1005
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 5: The final nail of the coffin.

1006
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a wave of feminism that ended when

1007
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: Katy Perry went to Space because it was just like

1008
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: what feminism? What are you even? What are you saying?

1009
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 3: I hate it?

1010
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: Woman should space tourism anyways?

1011
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 3: Yes, And then I would say the other big adaptation

1012
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 3: change from the book in general and especially at the end,

1013
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 3: is that Stanley feels a lot more confident at the end,

1014
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 3: and he likes himself now and now he has friends.

1015
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 3: And this is part of a larger adaptation change that

1016
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 3: we alluded to it at the beginning of the episode,

1017
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 3: which I would like to talk more about, which is

1018
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 3: the fat erasure of Stanley's character. So basically, in the book,

1019
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 3: Stanley is fat. In the movie, he is thin. In

1020
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 3: the book, it's mentioned that Stanley is teased and bullied

1021
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 3: at school by his peers for being fat. Sometimes his

1022
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 3: teachers will kind of subconsciously fat shame him. He doesn't

1023
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 3: have much self confidence or friends. As a result, over

1024
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 3: the course of the book, he does lose some weight

1025
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 3: due to strenuous activity of digging holes every day. It

1026
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 3: doesn't ever say how much weight he loses, but it

1027
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 3: does say that by the end of the story he

1028
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 3: has more confidence, he has friends, he likes himself. It

1029
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 3: is not super clear in the book exactly how much

1030
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 3: of his confidence boost, if any, correlates to his weight loss.

1031
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 3: But even so, I do remember that readers of the

1032
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 3: book they appreciated there being representation of a fat protagonist

1033
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 3: who is likable and compelling, who is at the center

1034
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 3: of this really you know, interesting and layered story, who

1035
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 3: has an arc. And I remember a lot of the

1036
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 3: criticism about this movie when it came out that, you know,

1037
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 3: audiences were disappointed that that aspect of the character was

1038
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 3: completely erased. They wanted to see on screen representation of

1039
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 3: a fat protagonist, but instead the movie cast a thin

1040
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 3: actor in Shila buff And I know that the choice

1041
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 3: to cast a you know, a thin actor in this

1042
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 3: role and to not have to have, you know, like

1043
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 3: someone wear a fat suit or anything like that totally valid.

1044
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: But Also, it's like they could have just cast a

1045
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: fat actor.

1046
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 3: Right, because the thing is like, if they wanted to

1047
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 3: emit something, why did it have to be his fatness.

1048
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 3: If anything, they could have omitted his weight loss.

1049
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 1: Right, that was the Yeah, that would be ideal, right, Like,

1050
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it.

1051
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 6: Is about the confidence. And the thing about being fat

1052
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 6: is that, for the most part, being fat is not actually,

1053
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,439
Speaker 6: in my opinion, as a fat person, that bad.

1054
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 5: I'm hot, I am fine with the way that I look.

1055
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 6: The problem with being fat is society and the way

1056
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 6: that society treats fat people. And the problem with Stanley

1057
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 6: being fat is the fact that he's getting teased. He

1058
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 6: has no confidence because adults and children alike are making

1059
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 6: him feel bad about his body. And like the nineties

1060
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 6: was also a peak heroin chic, the early two thousands

1061
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 6: was like low rise.

1062
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: Genes also experiencing another unfortunate reboot.

1063
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, the rise of.

1064
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 6: Like skinny talk is terrifying. It's like anemia Tumbler all

1065
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 6: over again.

1066
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 5: It really, it really.

1067
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 6: Is like very disconcerting to encounter, and like, I find

1068
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 6: myself having thoughts that I haven't had in twenty years,

1069
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 6: and I'm just like stop it.

1070
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 5: But I'm okay, I'm good. But every now and.

1071
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 6: Then I'm just like, like, I'll read the can of

1072
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 6: a Lacroix and I'll feel bad about myself because looks

1073
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 6: actually are really weird of fat Shamie, because they really

1074
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 6: yeah with them, they say zero carbs, zero.

1075
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 3: Fat, zero, zero guilt or something like that.

1076
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 5: It's innocent.

1077
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it does say equals innocent yea.

1078
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 5: And sometimes it gets to me.

1079
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: Polar would never, polar would never.

1080
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, a spin drift couldn't catch them.

1081
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not. No, I Caitlyn, that's a great point.

1082
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: Like it's because I did feel like, I guess what,

1083
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 1: I I agree with you, Karama that you know, putting

1084
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: child above in a fat suit would have aged the

1085
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: movie terribly. Yeah, but I did feel like in the

1086
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: portion of the book that I finished that there was

1087
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: it was like one of the faults of the book

1088
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 1: to me. I've I thought anyways that Lewis de Carr

1089
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 1: was sort of putting some morality towards the weight loss

1090
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: in a way that just felt kind of out of

1091
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: step with a lot of what the book is doing.

1092
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 3: Totally and right. If there was again anything to omit

1093
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 3: from the adaptation, it could be the weight loss, or

1094
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 3: at least the implication that his boost and confidence correlates

1095
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 3: in some way to his weight loss.

1096
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 6: I do also think that, like we are looking at

1097
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 6: this very much with twenty twenty five eyes, and I

1098
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 6: think that having a kid that was fat on screen

1099
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 6: be made fun of for being fat was something that

1100
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 6: was like also going to be considered like damaging, like

1101
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 6: putting this fat kid in the public eye, And I

1102
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 6: think that it ultimately would have been damaging.

1103
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 5: For that kid.

1104
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 6: Sure, And I know that like Heavyweights was a movie

1105
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,439
Speaker 6: that came out in a similar era.

1106
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 5: I can't remember exactly what your Heavyweights.

1107
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 3: Came out, Yeah, late nineties, I think because he isn't

1108
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 3: Keenan Thompson in it, so it's like, yeah, Keenan era,

1109
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 3: I think baby Keenan's in it.

1110
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1111
01:03:57,800 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 6: But the thing about Keenan is it was always okay

1112
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 6: for him to be fat because he was funny, do

1113
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 6: you know what I mean? Whereas like with Holes, it's

1114
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 6: more of a dramatic turn and you're sort of like

1115
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 6: the hero of this drama. And I think that I

1116
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 6: think that I would have loved if it were different.

1117
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 6: But I also kind of understand why it was the

1118
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 6: way that it was with.

1119
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: The time that it came out, and adding that to

1120
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'm sure that I'm but I

1121
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: the only young fat actors that I remember knowing of

1122
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: as a kid were Keenan Thompson and Lori Beth Denberg

1123
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: and that was it. And so if the you know,

1124
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 1: directive is to cast Stanley yell Natz as a known actor,

1125
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: that might have been hard also because of how of

1126
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: how prejudiced Hollywood is in the first place, where the

1127
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 1: most well known child actors are you know, finn Totally.

1128
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 6: This is before Nicki Blonski changed cinema.

1129
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 1: It was a few years away, in just three years.

1130
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 3: So the filmmakers spoke to this adaptation change in an

1131
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 3: interview in two thousand and three. So it was Lewis

1132
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 3: Sacker and director Andrew Davis were interviewed by Phase nine. Sure,

1133
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what that is, some kind of

1134
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 3: film publication, but anyway, precisely, they were asked how they

1135
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 3: searched for the right kids, like the right child actors

1136
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 3: for the characters. Lewis Sacker says, well, the character of

1137
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 3: Stanley in the book is overweight, Shia is not, but

1138
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 3: this wasn't integral to the story. The point was more

1139
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 3: that he felt like an outsider, but he could display vulnerability,

1140
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 3: and Shia conveys the right amount of emotion and vulnerability

1141
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 3: and quirkiness, so the overweight thing wasn't important to that.

1142
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 3: I say, did you read your own book? Lewis, Like,

1143
01:05:58,640 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 3: what are you talking about?

1144
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 6: As a misguided take, I would say I can pretty

1145
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 6: much bring any topic back to how much I dislike

1146
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 6: Leah Michelle. But of course, for me Funny Girl the adaptation,

1147
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 6: I thought that Beanie Feldstein was better casting because the

1148
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 6: whole thing about Funny Girl is that Fanny Brice is

1149
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 6: supposed to be not conventionally attractive. And while Leah Michelle,

1150
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 6: because she is half Jewish, does have similar features to say,

1151
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 6: like barbar streisand in the original the way that that

1152
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 6: was written for twenty twenty forge or whatever year it was,

1153
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 6: twenty twenty two, she's conventionally attractive.

1154
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 5: She's like a hot lady.

1155
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 6: Our beauty conventions have changed, but we still hate fat people.

1156
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 6: And I think that Beanie Feldstein's casting was far more

1157
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 6: in line with who Fanny's supposed to be as an outsider.

1158
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 6: So I think that on the one hand, Lewis is

1159
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 6: right in that what matters most is that he's an

1160
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 6: outsider who gains confidence. But we don't get that from

1161
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 6: Shia abuff In any way, Like they didn't write something

1162
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 6: in that made it happen, Like he didn't have a list,

1163
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 6: he didn't have some sort of like physical disability or

1164
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 6: something that like that would have helped with the holes.

1165
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 3: But you know what I mean, Yeah, or even if

1166
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 3: it's just like he has a lack of confidence for

1167
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 3: a reason that has nothing to do with his appearance

1168
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 3: or ability or anything like that, and it's just that

1169
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 3: it wasn't replaced with anything. Yeah, Yeah, So that's just

1170
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 3: that whole part of his character is erased. And maybe

1171
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 3: Lewis Sachar is saying something like, well, you know, Stanley's

1172
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 3: fatness does not define him as a character, which is true,

1173
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 3: but it doesn't sound like that's what he's saying. He's

1174
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 3: just sort of like, I need to make an excuse

1175
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 3: for why we didn't cast a actor.

1176
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like a very like hollywoody thing, which

1177
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 1: to at least to Lewis Skar, I'm sure that Lewis

1178
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: Akar is not the one making the final casting decisions, no, right,

1179
01:07:58,640 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: I know that he. I think he was a pretty

1180
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: around the movie. I think that that is like a

1181
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: better suited question for the director than which the writer.

1182
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 3: Which the director answers a question, a follow up question,

1183
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 3: which was didn't you consider a fat suit, and director

1184
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 3: Andrew Davis says, yes, we did, but in the book

1185
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 3: he loses weight as the story evolves and as he

1186
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 3: digs the holes, et cetera. And we shot the movie

1187
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 3: out of continuity, so that wouldn't have worked.

1188
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 2: That's the reason.

1189
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:31,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, youre right, And I think that was like I

1190
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 3: remember that also being a reason that they gave for

1191
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 3: not casting a fat actor to begin with, because it's like, well,

1192
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 3: movies are shot out of chronological order. So if a

1193
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,479
Speaker 3: character is losing weight progressively, but the movie is shot

1194
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 3: out of order, then how how do we manage that?

1195
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 1: It's all very two thousand and three. I mean, I

1196
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,560
Speaker 1: will say that, like not to give this movie a pass,

1197
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 1: but that this feels very thoroughly in step with how

1198
01:08:57,400 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 1: fatness was treated in movies at this time.

1199
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,719
Speaker 3: For sure, shallow how oh yeah.

1200
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 1: Right, like this like the same couple of years God,

1201
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:07,839
Speaker 1: I still have managed to never see Shallow.

1202
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 5: How oh, I won't see that movie because I love

1203
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 5: myself too much.

1204
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: That's one of those movies where it's like, I know

1205
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 1: we'd have a lot to talk about, but I don't

1206
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 1: want to subject to anyone to have it to watch it,

1207
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: including myself.

1208
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 3: Fair it's horrid. I have seen it, and.

1209
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: It's like been free on YouTube for a thousand years

1210
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: because no one would watch it on purpose. But in

1211
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 1: any case, yes, I wasn't aware that they had been

1212
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 1: asked about it directly.

1213
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 3: And then the other thing is that there is a

1214
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 3: fat character in the movie Armpit laid by Byron Cotton

1215
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 3: ar MPI to the t well, yes, of course.

1216
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:47,679
Speaker 5: Is that you're smelling dog?

1217
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 3: That's me okay, Well, that's the thing.

1218
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 1: That was a lyric. That was lyric.

1219
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 3: The main thing we know about him is that he

1220
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 3: has body odor. He doesn't. He's implied to not have

1221
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 3: very good hygiene. Every and teases him about this. And

1222
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 3: also the movie goes out of its way to show

1223
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,839
Speaker 3: at least once to show him struggling with a physical

1224
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 3: task of some kind.

1225
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1226
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 3: So basically the only fat character on screen is attached

1227
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 3: to all these very harmful reductive tropes. Yeah, associated with fatness.

1228
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 1: So which sucks for a lot of reasons. I mean

1229
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 1: the actor, because I don't think I don't a lot

1230
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 1: of these kids didn't go on to perform at least

1231
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: in movies very much. But Byron Cotton is so good,

1232
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: he's so charming, and also like it also just doesn't

1233
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 1: it's so clearly fat phobic because you got to think,

1234
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 1: all these kids are stinky, They're not being taken care of,

1235
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 1: and it's not their fault, Like they all share a

1236
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:47,680
Speaker 1: single shower stall like there, of course, hygiene is poor

1237
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:49,160
Speaker 1: and they only get like four.

1238
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 3: Minute shower tokens or something.

1239
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and add that to the average hygiene habits of

1240
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: a young boy in the best circumstances, like, yeah, all

1241
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: these kids are stinky.

1242
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 6: Yeah, and they're wearing the same work clothes three days

1243
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 6: in a row.

1244
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 3: Right.

1245
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:08,600
Speaker 1: I did want to talk a little bit about the

1246
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 1: production of this movie, because there is child Okay, one

1247
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: of the hills that I love to die on day

1248
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 1: in and day out is child labor laws, and there's

1249
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 1: I think that this movie technically followed child labor laws,

1250
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 1: but to me, say that child labor laws are not

1251
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 1: restrictive enough because they I mean, obviously the kids have

1252
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: to go to school all this stuff, But they were

1253
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 1: literally in the middle of the desert in heat as

1254
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 1: much as one hundred and fifteen degrees, shooting for ten weeks.

1255
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:43,640
Speaker 1: And I have a couple of quotes from that. It

1256
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 1: was a business insider oral history where they didn't speak

1257
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 1: to everybody, and you know there's certain like you know,

1258
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:52,679
Speaker 1: like I don't want to know what child a buff says.

1259
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: He's not in it. But it's like Lewis Sakarr, the director,

1260
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: and then a couple of the cast members I think

1261
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: Tim Blake Nelson, and then a few of the boys,

1262
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 1: including Miguel Castro who plays Magnet and my crush Cleo Thomas.

1263
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 5: Well I met once.

1264
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 1: Actually what is he nice?

1265
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 5: It was very nice. I was like, is he t zero?

1266
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 5: He was really sweet.

1267
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 6: I was on a show on Hulu called Reboot, and

1268
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 6: at the premiere of Reboot he was there and I

1269
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 6: was like, what are you doing here?

1270
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:31,639
Speaker 1: Also, you're great in Reboot. I was like I think

1271
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 1: I like gasped and like messaged you immediately, like how

1272
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 1: could you not have told me? Actually?

1273
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 6: I actually had a really sweet interaction last night with

1274
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 6: somebody at like an actor mixer thing for my agency,

1275
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,599
Speaker 6: and this like younger actor at my agency.

1276
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 5: She's like in her twenties. She's not like a child,

1277
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 5: but she came up here. She's like, I really loved

1278
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:53,800
Speaker 5: you in reboot and you made me want to go

1279
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 5: to UCB. And I was just like, I'm literally gonna

1280
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 5: cry right now.

1281
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 6: Thank you so much. I feels good about my career

1282
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 6: and that made me feel so much better.

1283
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 1: Like moments like that find you when you need it.

1284
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 2: That's really yes.

1285
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 5: But yeah, Cleo was very nice.

1286
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: He introduces something like I know you're I know I'm

1287
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 1: aware of.

1288
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 2: I know the classes, but I would lose it.

1289
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 5: I would still still crushworthy.

1290
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 1: I would say yeah, I followed it. I followed him

1291
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: on Instagram today. I was like, he still got it.

1292
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 6: I was gonna say slides DMS and I remembered, like

1293
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 6: a fully engaged with adults.

1294
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 2: He would get it.

1295
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:33,479
Speaker 1: This Cleo Thomas has been promoted to my Hall Pass.

1296
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: But so this is a quote from Miguel Castro, who

1297
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: also talks about how like the casting process and how

1298
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 1: they really did. I mean, I think that being unwilling

1299
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: to cast a fat actor of Stanley is the standout

1300
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:51,640
Speaker 1: bad thing that they did, because it seems like they

1301
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:56,880
Speaker 1: tried to really find young actors who like fit the role,

1302
01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:00,720
Speaker 1: and also that the movie was not being aggressive whitewashed

1303
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 1: in a way that I would not put past two

1304
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 1: thousand and three. I do think ultimately centering a story

1305
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: about the school to prison pipeline around a white character

1306
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:12,519
Speaker 1: as a little suss but we'll get there. But just

1307
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: in terms of the production, Mila Castro said, he's also

1308
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 1: very funny, but he said, I remember one day was

1309
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 1: one hundred and nineteen degrees. I thought they were going

1310
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 1: to cancel the filming, but we all agreed to knock

1311
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: it out. I was hallucinating and I started seeing water

1312
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 1: a swimming pool. The production team gave us thermometers to

1313
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: check the temperature of our holes. If the holes hit

1314
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 1: over one hundred and twenty five degrees, we had to

1315
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:39,520
Speaker 1: get out of there. That day, some of our thermometers

1316
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,679
Speaker 1: broke one thirty And it's like, you can't make kids

1317
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: do that. You can't make kids, they just said. And

1318
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: they had to do like a boot camp, basically re

1319
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 1: enacting the movie holes so that they would be able

1320
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 1: to do it on the production, so it ended up

1321
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 1: being like three to four months of them sort of

1322
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 1: just having to go methad, which is like, do that

1323
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 1: if you want as an adult, Like I just you

1324
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:07,719
Speaker 1: can't make kids go method at a prison camp.

1325
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 5: Like that's we all agreed is bad.

1326
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's.

1327
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:18,719
Speaker 6: It's giving Mikey Madison saying that she and Sean Baker

1328
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 6: decided together not to have an intimacy coordinator, and I'm like,

1329
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 6: I don't think that that's your call as a no.

1330
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 6: I think it's your call as a yes, but it

1331
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 6: can't be your call as a no. That's like not

1332
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 6: having a stunt coordinator. Like even Tom Cruise, as dedicated

1333
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 6: as he is to doing these outrageous stunts, has a

1334
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 6: stunt coordinator.

1335
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, it feels like adults knowing that they

1336
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 3: have power over children and being like, no, we got

1337
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 3: to keep going. The show must go on, let's go,

1338
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:49,880
Speaker 3: let's go kids.

1339
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 6: Don't you want to make the movie? Don't you want

1340
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 6: all of your friends to watch this cool movie?

1341
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 3: Right?

1342
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 1: It's just I don't know, I don't understand like production risk,

1343
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,160
Speaker 1: Like even if you were heartless and you don't care

1344
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 1: about putting a child in a one hundred and thirty

1345
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 1: degree whole like that production insurance. I don't know. I

1346
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 1: was just I was curious. I was like, I wonder

1347
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 1: how they kept the whole school. The answer they didn't.

1348
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:16,760
Speaker 1: They didn't, so that is unfortunate. What I will say

1349
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 1: that is positive about the production, just something that I

1350
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: admire is that Andrew Davis, the director, who mostly had

1351
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 1: done action movies up to this point, was really set

1352
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:32,760
Speaker 1: on keeping the story basically not dumbing the story down

1353
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 1: for kids, and that Disney, after I think a few

1354
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 1: initial like are you sure you want to include A,

1355
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: B and C, he was like, no, I will not

1356
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 1: make the movie if you keep bugging me, and really

1357
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:49,360
Speaker 1: pushed to have Lewis Karr write the screenplay and basically,

1358
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 1: along with a producer, taught Lewis Decarr how to write

1359
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 1: a screenplay so that they could preserve the integrity of

1360
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: the story. And I don't know, just like I knew,

1361
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, Crame, you're a writer. Like it's just like that.

1362
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 1: I don't know how they pulled it off, and I'm

1363
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 1: so glad that they did well.

1364
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 6: I feel like he has a really strong understanding of

1365
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 6: story to begin with, So I feel like it was

1366
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:13,080
Speaker 6: like he was at the water.

1367
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 5: They just had to show him how to drink, you

1368
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 5: know what I mean?

1369
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, And that's what they were sort of like.

1370
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 1: They were like, he's a great writer, he just needs

1371
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:24,960
Speaker 1: to understand the format. And I guess throughout production, like Lewis,

1372
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:26,680
Speaker 1: the Carr had a lot of input and if he

1373
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 1: wanted something changed or adjusted like Andrew Davis, had no questions.

1374
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, no one respects writers. That's cool. Yeah,

1375
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: that's right. That was my takeaway.

1376
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 5: He's also in the movie.

1377
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, mister bold, Oh that's him.

1378
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:43,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, cute.

1379
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: Sweet.

1380
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:47,880
Speaker 5: I wish they had shown him with like a bust

1381
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 5: down wig.

1382
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:53,679
Speaker 3: Later because the onion juice it worked. The onion juice

1383
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:54,960
Speaker 3: cured his boldness.

1384
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 5: I just want to know if it works. It's like

1385
01:17:57,640 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 5: a Sweet Todd situation.

1386
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 3: Mister No, I think Sam's onion remedies worked one hundred percent.

1387
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 6: You would have loved Arawan, Oh my god, Oh he

1388
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 6: would have.

1389
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:13,560
Speaker 1: He would have been making billions at the Ariwuan.

1390
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 3: Wow.

1391
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love cameos like that. And not to keep

1392
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:18,840
Speaker 1: going back to series of unfortunate events, but it is

1393
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 1: my favorite. And that is a terribly adapted movie that

1394
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 1: the author was very upset about. So it's just like

1395
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 1: there's so many examples of you know, heavily sanitized, Like

1396
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 1: all the dark themes in that movie are basically played

1397
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 1: for comedy instead of because the you know, Nickel I

1398
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:37,519
Speaker 1: think it was Nickelodeon productions in that case were like,

1399
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 1: it's too scary for kids, they won't be able to

1400
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 1: handle it. And that's how you get Jim Carrey count

1401
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: all off.

1402
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:47,480
Speaker 6: I met the boy from that movie.

1403
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 5: I didn't know it was him. I just happened to

1404
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:50,760
Speaker 5: be sitting.

1405
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:51,759
Speaker 1: All my childhood crushes.

1406
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:53,720
Speaker 6: I just happened to be sitting next to him. We're

1407
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:57,320
Speaker 6: instagram like mutuals now. I happen to be sitting next

1408
01:18:57,320 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 6: to him. Last summer when I went to New York

1409
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:01,720
Speaker 6: City and I decided to use my free will and

1410
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 6: my adult money to go see Cats.

1411
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:05,880
Speaker 2: The Jellicle Ball, and he was there.

1412
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:08,679
Speaker 5: And he was there in the front row, right next

1413
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 5: to me.

1414
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

1415
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 6: He had a friend who was in it. He had

1416
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 6: never seen Cats before. I had seen Cats before.

1417
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 3: Of course.

1418
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 6: I will just say I think the Cat's the Jellical

1419
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 6: Ball was actually genius and a really amazing production because

1420
01:19:24,040 --> 01:19:27,640
Speaker 6: they used ballroom culture and I was like, oh, this

1421
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 6: is this is actually the only way this show makes sense.

1422
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 1: That is actually a great adjustment.

1423
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:36,719
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's like Paris is burning bust cats.

1424
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:38,280
Speaker 5: Yes it's gay cats.

1425
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:40,160
Speaker 2: I'm in that's so good.

1426
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:45,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. Liam Aiken, Yes he's sucking and like, I'm a yapper,

1427
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 1: so I'll talk to anybody that's unfortunately sitting next to me.

1428
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 6: And he was such a trooper about it, and I

1429
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 6: was like, Oh, your friend's in it. Who is your

1430
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 6: friend playing? And he was like, oh, she's Skimbleshanks And

1431
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 6: I was like the railway can.

1432
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: The best Cat's god best number.

1433
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 5: I was like, that's a good cat, you've.

1434
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 2: Good taste and friends.

1435
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 1: I can't believe you're hang out with Skimbleshanks. Oh my god.

1436
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:13,880
Speaker 1: Yet another like Horny Child's thing on my wall. I

1437
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: had like achin for Liam, that's so funny. Wow, I'm

1438
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:22,719
Speaker 1: glad that he's And he did turn into my dream

1439
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: adult in that he was friend row at the Jelicable

1440
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:27,839
Speaker 1: and like I never.

1441
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:29,679
Speaker 6: It never it came up that he was an actor

1442
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:31,640
Speaker 6: because we were just talking and I was like, oh,

1443
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 6: I'm an actor too, and blah, blah blah. And I

1444
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:35,479
Speaker 6: didn't know until I like looked him up after he

1445
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:37,120
Speaker 6: walked me into the subway because I was like, I

1446
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 6: don't know where I'm going, And I looked him up

1447
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 6: to see if his star meter.

1448
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 5: Was better than mine.

1449
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 6: It was, and I was like, oh, snap, this is

1450
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 6: the guy from Stepmom, one of my favorite movies of

1451
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 6: all time.

1452
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:49,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

1453
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:50,840
Speaker 6: And then I was like, oh, I had a series

1454
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:52,760
Speaker 6: of unfortunate events a movie that I did not care.

1455
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 1: About, but Stepmom, good for him, Good for him.

1456
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 5: Have you guys done? Stepmom? Sorry, we should talk about

1457
01:20:59,160 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 5: the movie.

1458
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 3: No, we haven't, but it's on our list.

1459
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 1: I think would be down. I've seen it because jennam

1460
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: Alone is in it too, right, baby jenneral alone? Yeah,

1461
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:10,839
Speaker 1: but well, I guess back, I guess.

1462
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 3: I mean speaking of a movie that you know, like

1463
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 3: doesn't sanitize the more serious themes, or at least not extensively. Yeah,

1464
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 3: this movie, it addresses a number of social issues such

1465
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:34,559
Speaker 3: as race, class, incarceration in all of the storylines I

1466
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 3: think that are intersecting. So there's these two main storylines

1467
01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:42,960
Speaker 3: from the past, one from the present. In one of them,

1468
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 3: it's Stanley's Great, Great grandfather Elia Yellnetz. He is seeking

1469
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 3: out the help of Madame Zaroni. In the book, Madame

1470
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:58,120
Speaker 3: Zaroni is described as being a word that is used

1471
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 3: as a slur to describe Romani people. She's played by

1472
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 3: earth a kid.

1473
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like believe Egyptian. In the book too, they

1474
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:10,560
Speaker 1: explicitly say that she is an immigrant from Egypt.

1475
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 3: Right, and curious what your thoughts are. But I couldn't

1476
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:17,840
Speaker 3: help but feel that there are hints of like the

1477
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:22,320
Speaker 3: magical Negro trope at play here, because she's presented as

1478
01:22:22,320 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 3: being this mystic type of person. She places a curse.

1479
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 6: I agree there's a little magical Negro happening, but I

1480
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,439
Speaker 6: don't mind it. And I don't know if I'm supposed

1481
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 6: to say that out loud, but I don't because also

1482
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 6: I feel like it's a lot of the time, like

1483
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 6: when curses are happening, it's like, oh man, we got

1484
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 6: cursed for no reason, and nobody at any point is like,

1485
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 6: oh man, we got cursed for no reason. They're like, my,

1486
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 6: no good, dirty rotten pigs stealing great great great grandfather.

1487
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 6: It's like this was a deserved curse. Everybody's mad at

1488
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 6: the great great grandfather for not doing what he promised

1489
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 6: he would do. And it's like, you got the help

1490
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 6: that you want, it you ended up not getting with

1491
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 6: the girl, and now your butt hurt and you're gonna

1492
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,640
Speaker 6: go on a boat to America. You realize on the

1493
01:23:08,680 --> 01:23:10,760
Speaker 6: boat to America, oh snap, I forgot to take the

1494
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 6: old lady up the hill and you don't take a

1495
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 6: boat back.

1496
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 5: I would have been on the next boat.

1497
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:19,679
Speaker 1: Back personally, right, I did. Yeah, that is I guess

1498
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: I hadn't registered that that. At very least. The family

1499
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:26,120
Speaker 1: is not like fuck, Madame Zeroni. They're like, he made

1500
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 1: a deal and he didn't keep his end of it.

1501
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:30,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, at no point where they're like, oh, Madam Zaroni

1502
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 6: was the worst. They're like, yeah, no, that's that's fair.

1503
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:39,720
Speaker 3: It's like a European white guy neglecting to pay a

1504
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:44,680
Speaker 3: black woman for services rendered and he gets cursed about it,

1505
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:46,439
Speaker 3: and it is fully deserved.

1506
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 6: And I also think that, you know, the the curse

1507
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:54,160
Speaker 6: being broken because finally the services that were promised were

1508
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:58,639
Speaker 6: rendered in a way with this new generation, it's it's

1509
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 6: very much speaking like the promise. I think that with

1510
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 6: them being explicitly black, even though it's like somewhat ambiguous in.

1511
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:08,799
Speaker 5: The book, like if if she's Egyptian or if she's Romani.

1512
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:11,880
Speaker 6: It's very much about like, oh, the promise is that

1513
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 6: America has made to black people and sort of like

1514
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 6: how those have been broken and there I think that

1515
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 6: there is going to be a curse on this country

1516
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 6: until something happens to make it right. Whether it's reparations,

1517
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:29,880
Speaker 6: whether it's something else, I don't know, And like I

1518
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:32,120
Speaker 6: don't even think that I would be entitled to reparations

1519
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:34,640
Speaker 6: because my parents are immigrants. Like I'm not saying it

1520
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 6: for personal gain, and I'm saying it for justice reasons,

1521
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:41,080
Speaker 6: but justice. Like the movie is very clear in teaching

1522
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:44,400
Speaker 6: kids like hey, if you promise something to somebody and

1523
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 6: then you don't do it, that's a bad thing. And

1524
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 6: then later we were all like, yeah, no, it makes

1525
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 6: sense that they're cursed. And then later it's like, oh,

1526
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 6: I'm going to make this right. And he didn't make

1527
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:59,040
Speaker 6: it right to do things better, Like he didn't make

1528
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 6: it right because he's like, oh, this lift the curse.

1529
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 6: It was completely selfless. His friend was hurt and he

1530
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 6: wanted to make him better totally, and like when you

1531
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 6: do the right thing for the right reason. Good things

1532
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:13,800
Speaker 6: happen to you in movieland unfortunately not always in real life.

1533
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:17,320
Speaker 5: But I think that more people tried it, we'd find

1534
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:18,880
Speaker 5: out in real life.

1535
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:22,880
Speaker 3: Right yeah, right, So yeah, that's that storyline. And then

1536
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 3: it also intersects heavily with the Stanley Hector Zerny storyline

1537
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:32,920
Speaker 3: in the present. And then the third storyline is the

1538
01:25:33,479 --> 01:25:39,640
Speaker 3: Miss Catherine aka kissing Kate Marlowe and Sam in I

1539
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 3: think it's like turn of the century, like late eighteen hundreds,

1540
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 3: early nineteen hundreds. Again, it's Jim Crow era Texas. She

1541
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 3: is a white woman, he is a black man. They

1542
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:53,800
Speaker 3: fall in love. They kiss during an era when that

1543
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 3: was illegal in Texas and in many other states in

1544
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 3: the US. They are seen this racist mob forms. All

1545
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 3: this violence is inflicted. They murder Sam. The sheriff does

1546
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:11,680
Speaker 3: nothing to stop them. In all likelihood, the sheriff was

1547
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:15,840
Speaker 3: a clan member. And then this leads to you know,

1548
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:21,080
Speaker 3: Catherine ak Kate becoming an outlaw getting revenge. She kills

1549
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 3: the sheriff. It makes you wonder why she doesn't kill

1550
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:27,120
Speaker 3: trout Walker also, but I guess it's because the story

1551
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 3: needs him to live long enough to produce offspring, so

1552
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:34,559
Speaker 3: that the warden can be a character since trout Walker's

1553
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:35,800
Speaker 3: her grandfather.

1554
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 6: Right. Also, I think that there's sometimes there's power in

1555
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:41,599
Speaker 6: letting someone suffer.

1556
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:44,439
Speaker 3: Oh true, because he by the end of his life

1557
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:45,760
Speaker 3: he is miserable.

1558
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:46,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's obsessed.

1559
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:50,240
Speaker 6: He's a man completely possessed by the idea of finding

1560
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:54,639
Speaker 6: this treasure where he's torturing his granddaughter, right, so built

1561
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:57,559
Speaker 6: to dig these holes and she's you know the TikTok

1562
01:26:57,680 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 6: sounds that has spawned a million video.

1563
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:06,720
Speaker 5: I'm tired of this grandpa it is.

1564
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 1: I thought that, like that was an interesting Again, like

1565
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 1: this movie is good at like providing context for the

1566
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: villains without overly empathizing with them, because what she does

1567
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:24,880
Speaker 1: to deal with the uh trauma of the holes is

1568
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,680
Speaker 1: that she becomes like a prison warden and opens a

1569
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 1: prison and outsources the labor to disenfranchised children. So it's

1570
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:36,400
Speaker 1: not like it's an excuse for anything that she's doing.

1571
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 1: But I like little beats like that, I feel like

1572
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:41,320
Speaker 1: are sort of what elevates this movie a lot if

1573
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 1: because I think that's like helpful for kids to have

1574
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:49,360
Speaker 1: context but not excuses for how you know, oppressors become

1575
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:51,120
Speaker 1: oppressors when it speaks.

1576
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 6: To the way that white women will pass on the

1577
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:57,719
Speaker 6: violence enacted upon them by white men to black people,

1578
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:01,880
Speaker 6: because you know, not everybody is black in the camp,

1579
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:03,800
Speaker 6: but they do make it a point to have if

1580
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:06,440
Speaker 6: you're a number of black kids, because that is unfortunately

1581
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 6: who is getting these harsher punishments. And even if you

1582
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 6: think about Hector and Stanley, Stanley is getting this punishment

1583
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 6: because he stole from allegedly stole shoes from a homeless

1584
01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:21,160
Speaker 6: shelter and they were like this famous guy's shoes, and

1585
01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 6: this crime was like more egregious in that way. Hector

1586
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:27,960
Speaker 6: got nabbed for stealing shoes from Paylass.

1587
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:30,760
Speaker 3: Right, shoes that probably cost twenty dollars kind of thing,

1588
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 3: not even.

1589
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 5: In three pay less shoes fifteen at most.

1590
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:36,120
Speaker 2: Right right?

1591
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:40,519
Speaker 1: I miss pay Less every day rip rip to a

1592
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 1: real story.

1593
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:43,479
Speaker 6: The payless where I used to buy my Easter shoes

1594
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:45,280
Speaker 6: is now an axe throwing place.

1595
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:50,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god. So it's like gentrification on gentrification. I

1596
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 1: thought it was interesting that Pala's got shouted out by name.

1597
01:28:53,160 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, did they pay for that?

1598
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 5: I don't know, they shoes worth stealing? Paylas there is.

1599
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:02,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I'm curious what you both think

1600
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 1: of this, Like Camp Greenlake is a diverse but I

1601
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 1: would say mostly non white body of people, which I

1602
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 1: think makes a lot of sense if you look at

1603
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 1: prisons unfortunately, especially the school to prison and Pipeline. I

1604
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 1: do feel like, while I do love Stanley Yelnatz, centering

1605
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:27,720
Speaker 1: this story on a white character does not to say

1606
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:29,800
Speaker 1: that this does not happen to white kids, but it

1607
01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:35,880
Speaker 1: happens disproportionately less. And so while I think you can

1608
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 1: make the argument that Zero is a dual protagonist by

1609
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:42,280
Speaker 1: the end of the movie, but he's not at the beginning,

1610
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:46,400
Speaker 1: and so I don't know. I don't know, it's a pick.

1611
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:49,439
Speaker 1: And then there's all of these kids that you get

1612
01:29:49,479 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 1: a little bit of their story. I don't know. I

1613
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:53,800
Speaker 1: think you get a little more in the book, which

1614
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 1: is kind of to be expected, but you get like

1615
01:29:57,040 --> 01:29:59,200
Speaker 1: you don't really know why most of the kids have

1616
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:02,599
Speaker 1: been put there. It was a really They do add

1617
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:05,839
Speaker 1: that Magnet is there because he was trying to literally

1618
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:09,960
Speaker 1: free a dog from a breeder, which is great practice.

1619
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 1: Shout out Magnet, and that there is I think it's

1620
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:17,599
Speaker 1: zig Zag maybe is there because he has mental health

1621
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:20,800
Speaker 1: issues that are not being treated, and which is you know,

1622
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:23,160
Speaker 1: another thing you see all the time is someone with

1623
01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:26,200
Speaker 1: a mental health crisis being sent to prison instead of

1624
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:30,320
Speaker 1: being given help. And so like you are given. I

1625
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 1: think kind of a sampler platter for lack of a

1626
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:38,720
Speaker 1: better descriptor. But I do wish that we got a

1627
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:42,599
Speaker 1: little more than one line for a lot of characters,

1628
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 1: because I don't know. I mean, do we know why

1629
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 1: Armpit is there? Do we know? I experalized there? Like

1630
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:50,639
Speaker 1: we get, some characters get the context. Authors don't.

1631
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:52,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think we know.

1632
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:55,320
Speaker 3: This doesn't provide any more context in that regard, but

1633
01:30:55,479 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 3: I will share a quick paragraph from the book. Quote

1634
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:06,880
Speaker 3: Stanley was thankful that there were no racial problems. X Ray,

1635
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 3: Armpit and Zero were black, he Squid and Zigzag were white.

1636
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:16,040
Speaker 3: Magnet was hispanic. On the lake, they were all the

1637
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:21,120
Speaker 3: same reddish brown color, the color of dirt. Unquote. So

1638
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:24,479
Speaker 3: that's pretty much the only thing the book has to

1639
01:31:24,600 --> 01:31:29,439
Speaker 3: say about any racial or racialized dynamics.

1640
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:31,000
Speaker 1: In that timeline, at least because.

1641
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:38,000
Speaker 3: Yea, and I couldn't help think about another movie as

1642
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:41,679
Speaker 3: I was rewatching holes, which is the movie Nickel Boys

1643
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:46,759
Speaker 3: that I saw recently, so as far as a book

1644
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:51,440
Speaker 3: slash movie about young men or teen boys being incarcerated

1645
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:56,120
Speaker 3: and sent to a work camp. There is a version

1646
01:31:56,160 --> 01:32:01,160
Speaker 3: of this story that is written and made by white people,

1647
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:05,200
Speaker 3: a la Holes. And then compare that to a version

1648
01:32:05,240 --> 01:32:08,640
Speaker 3: of this story that was written by black people, a

1649
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 3: la Nickel Boys, which is a novel from twenty nineteen

1650
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:16,920
Speaker 3: by Coulson Whitehead adapted to a twenty twenty four film

1651
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 3: written and directed by Ramel Ross. Very different movies obviously,

1652
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 3: Where Nickel Boys. I don't know if either of you

1653
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 3: have seen it, but yeah, Nickel Boys is totally much heavier.

1654
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:32,120
Speaker 3: It does a lot more to shed light on the

1655
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 3: horrors of the racism, exploitation, violence, abuse present in a

1656
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 3: detention facility like this versus Holes, which acknowledges these things

1657
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:50,599
Speaker 3: to some degree, but it's center's whiteness. It's framed more

1658
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:55,439
Speaker 3: as this like almost a fun adventure, folk tale type

1659
01:32:55,439 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 3: of story that is largely about a white boy, kind

1660
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:04,200
Speaker 3: of like his redemption arc of like, oh I have

1661
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 3: to carry as a rony up a mountain kind of thing.

1662
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:09,680
Speaker 3: So I just think it's interesting to kind of note

1663
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 3: the differences between two similar premises written by two very

1664
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:19,080
Speaker 3: different perspectives, and how they kind of manifest at different times.

1665
01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:23,360
Speaker 5: To sure for sure, Yeah, I think that sometimes the

1666
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:26,320
Speaker 5: messenger matters as much as the message.

1667
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:30,080
Speaker 6: And I do think that in two thousand and three,

1668
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 6: for a kids movie to send this message, I think

1669
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 6: you need to see this happen to a white kid

1670
01:33:37,520 --> 01:33:39,719
Speaker 6: who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time,

1671
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:42,760
Speaker 6: because when black kids are in the wrong place at

1672
01:33:42,760 --> 01:33:44,439
Speaker 6: the wrong time, people are like, well, what were they

1673
01:33:44,479 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 6: doing there, Why weren't they there at the right time,

1674
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:48,960
Speaker 6: Why weren't they in a different place?

1675
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:51,440
Speaker 5: And I think.

1676
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 6: That it's kind of similar for me to my favorite

1677
01:33:56,000 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 6: movie about racism, Pleasantville. Yeah, it is a movie about

1678
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 6: racism with not nary a single person.

1679
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:08,280
Speaker 1: Yes, however, wild that they.

1680
01:34:08,200 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 5: Did that, but like wild that they did it and

1681
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:11,160
Speaker 5: did it well.

1682
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:13,000
Speaker 3: I think one of my favorite movies.

1683
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:13,880
Speaker 1: It's a great movie.

1684
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 6: It's a really good movie. And I think that there

1685
01:34:16,240 --> 01:34:22,639
Speaker 6: are people who would not have gotten the message if

1686
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:24,880
Speaker 6: it were a straight and maybe wouldn't even have watched

1687
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 6: the movie if it were straight up, Like, hey, this

1688
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:32,360
Speaker 6: is about segregation in the nineteen fifties, which is what

1689
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 6: it is.

1690
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:35,919
Speaker 5: It is a movie about segregation in the nineteen fifties,

1691
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:42,160
Speaker 5: but the colored people are literally in technicolor. Yeah, and

1692
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:43,320
Speaker 5: I love that, and.

1693
01:34:43,280 --> 01:34:45,400
Speaker 6: I love that that was an idea that somebody had,

1694
01:34:45,439 --> 01:34:48,439
Speaker 6: And it's like, sometimes, what if this happened to white people?

1695
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:51,960
Speaker 6: Is the way to get the message to people that

1696
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 6: are like, hey, wait a minute, And it's like the

1697
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:57,439
Speaker 6: last few lines of that poem, that's like, oh, and

1698
01:34:57,479 --> 01:35:00,200
Speaker 6: then they came for me and there's nobody to stand

1699
01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:01,439
Speaker 6: up for me, And it's like, what if this were

1700
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:02,240
Speaker 6: to happen to you?

1701
01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:04,680
Speaker 5: You need to think about if this happens to you.

1702
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:06,960
Speaker 6: Not to say that all of the audiences are white,

1703
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:11,040
Speaker 6: but in filmmaking, for better or for worse, white is

1704
01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:14,800
Speaker 6: seen as the default and you can put any experience

1705
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 6: on top of it. And I do think also there

1706
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:21,519
Speaker 6: are things that are true about this story. I do

1707
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:25,799
Speaker 6: think that even with the expensive lawyer, if it were Hector,

1708
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:27,840
Speaker 6: or if it were another black kid, it would have

1709
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:31,360
Speaker 6: taken longer than literally a day after hiring a lawyer

1710
01:35:31,400 --> 01:35:31,920
Speaker 6: to get.

1711
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:32,439
Speaker 5: Him out of there.

1712
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:33,759
Speaker 3: Definitely, no matter.

1713
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:35,680
Speaker 6: How hard that lawyer was working, I feel like the

1714
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 6: judge would be like, no, I'm not overturning this. I

1715
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:41,559
Speaker 6: don't care, he's already there. The holes are good for

1716
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:44,519
Speaker 6: character whatever, do you know what I mean? Because like,

1717
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 6: while I was watching, when they said this into eighteen months,

1718
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:50,479
Speaker 6: I was like, that is six times as long as.

1719
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:52,080
Speaker 5: Rock Turner got ah.

1720
01:35:52,360 --> 01:35:56,840
Speaker 1: Yep, Well, when you put it that way, it.

1721
01:35:56,880 --> 01:35:59,600
Speaker 6: Was an unreasonably long sentence, and I don't even know

1722
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:00,920
Speaker 6: how long those other kids.

1723
01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:01,439
Speaker 5: Are sentenced to.

1724
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:04,280
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I would be really curious what

1725
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:06,920
Speaker 1: the other sentences looked like, because it didn't seem like

1726
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:10,000
Speaker 1: that was a default sentence by any means.

1727
01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:12,360
Speaker 5: Right, and like x Ray had already been there for

1728
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:12,880
Speaker 5: six months.

1729
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:15,400
Speaker 6: Also, x Ray's nickname is my favorite because it's because

1730
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:17,400
Speaker 6: he's got the big glasses, but also his name.

1731
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:21,799
Speaker 5: Is Rex and like genius.

1732
01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:28,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is like peak kid brilliance. Yeah, I that's

1733
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:31,920
Speaker 1: that's a good point, especially where like you're saying, in

1734
01:36:32,040 --> 01:36:36,720
Speaker 1: children's media often still, but like especially in the two thousands,

1735
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, you're taking the like default protagonist for for

1736
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 1: a movie like this and making the worst possible thing

1737
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:48,800
Speaker 1: happen and demonstrating that it was through no fault of

1738
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:50,439
Speaker 1: his own. And then it's sort of I don't think

1739
01:36:50,479 --> 01:36:53,040
Speaker 1: this is like intentionally done. I would guess more that

1740
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:56,920
Speaker 1: this is just a Lewis Karr self insert to begin. Yeah,

1741
01:36:56,920 --> 01:36:59,640
Speaker 1: I'm not totally sure, but you know the director and

1742
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:02,799
Speaker 1: the writer if if you don't know, they're both white.

1743
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:06,759
Speaker 1: But yeah, that it's almost like by seeing that happen

1744
01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:10,920
Speaker 1: to Shilah buff it creates this runway to understand that

1745
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:14,519
Speaker 1: this is happening to every single kid in this place,

1746
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:17,479
Speaker 1: and I think, like what you lose there? That I

1747
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:18,880
Speaker 1: don't want to come down too hard in this movie

1748
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:21,200
Speaker 1: because it's doing so much I have literally never seen

1749
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:25,280
Speaker 1: in kids movies. True, but that it doesn't bring up

1750
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 1: the fact that the black kids at this camp would

1751
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:32,439
Speaker 1: have a far worse time, and that I guess the

1752
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:37,080
Speaker 1: closest you get to understanding that is through Zero. But Zero,

1753
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:41,719
Speaker 1: I mean has compounded issues. I think that the movie

1754
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:44,040
Speaker 1: sort of makes it out to be more that he's

1755
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:47,120
Speaker 1: unhoused an award of the state and therefore they don't

1756
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:51,400
Speaker 1: have to care about him and they don't really touch race,

1757
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:56,479
Speaker 1: which is bizarre because this movie is willing to discuss racism.

1758
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,680
Speaker 1: That's literally the whole Sam and Kate story. But I

1759
01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:01,240
Speaker 1: think it's.

1760
01:38:01,200 --> 01:38:04,400
Speaker 6: Very much a Colorblind two thousand. It's like, Wow, racism used.

1761
01:38:04,240 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 5: To be so bad.

1762
01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 1: Now any kid can go to jail.

1763
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 6: I will say, just because we talked about kissing Cape

1764
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 6: Barlowe and Sam, I'm really glad that they didn't hang him.

1765
01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:18,120
Speaker 6: I know that they said they were going to hang him,

1766
01:38:18,120 --> 01:38:20,599
Speaker 6: which would have been I think more historically accurate, but

1767
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:22,519
Speaker 6: I was so glad that they did not show him

1768
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:23,479
Speaker 6: getting hanged, and that it.

1769
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:26,880
Speaker 1: Was shown too, like, yeah, yeah, I think that that

1770
01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:28,200
Speaker 1: was handled very gracefully.

1771
01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:31,360
Speaker 6: And I think that not just for the kids, for

1772
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:34,640
Speaker 6: me and my little heart, I couldn't have handled it.

1773
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1774
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:37,400
Speaker 6: And then the other thing I was gonna say was

1775
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:39,720
Speaker 6: we were just talking about like the kids at the

1776
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:42,720
Speaker 6: camp and at the beginning, at the very beginning of

1777
01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 6: the cold Open, when barf Bag sacrifices himself to the snake,

1778
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:50,960
Speaker 6: they are singing dig It at the beginning, and it

1779
01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:53,840
Speaker 6: feels like the song sixteen Tons to me, like there

1780
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:57,559
Speaker 6: was a very similar vibe and it was sort of like,

1781
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:01,760
Speaker 6: you know, same deal as like working and you're never

1782
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:04,479
Speaker 6: going to get out of it, but they're also joking

1783
01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:08,439
Speaker 6: around and like the background music is digg it. The

1784
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:11,120
Speaker 6: kids are not singing diggt in universe, and the kids

1785
01:39:11,160 --> 01:39:13,320
Speaker 6: are joking around, and it really gives us a sense

1786
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:17,080
Speaker 6: that they are kids, and every point it shows them

1787
01:39:17,120 --> 01:39:20,360
Speaker 6: being kids and it's not like this sort of hardened

1788
01:39:20,439 --> 01:39:23,559
Speaker 6: criminal thing. Like the only kid that you really get

1789
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:26,679
Speaker 6: that sense from is the kid who's like watching TV

1790
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:30,280
Speaker 6: in the like mess hall or wherever, who gets into

1791
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:30,639
Speaker 6: a fight.

1792
01:39:30,920 --> 01:39:33,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, and even with that, he's like a slightly older kid.

1793
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:36,040
Speaker 1: It's he's visibly a little bit older and God only

1794
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:38,599
Speaker 1: does how long he's been there too that part.

1795
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:41,800
Speaker 6: But yeah, I think that there's a norm of adultifying,

1796
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:47,080
Speaker 6: particularly incarcerated kids and especially black kids, where it's like, oh,

1797
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:50,560
Speaker 6: they're not normal kids, they're criminals. And like some of

1798
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:53,760
Speaker 6: the kids did do things that are crimes. Like I

1799
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:58,280
Speaker 6: mean technically, you know, Magnet did a crime, although innocent.

1800
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:00,840
Speaker 5: Let them go right, h M.

1801
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:01,840
Speaker 3: The puppy, he.

1802
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:06,200
Speaker 1: Literally saved a puppy from a horrific practice, like come.

1803
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:09,479
Speaker 5: On, and like Twitch stole a car, but he's a

1804
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:10,240
Speaker 5: little boy.

1805
01:40:10,520 --> 01:40:13,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's like I just want to go zoom and

1806
01:40:13,200 --> 01:40:15,439
Speaker 6: it's like, okay, well maybe we should take this kid

1807
01:40:15,479 --> 01:40:15,960
Speaker 6: go cart.

1808
01:40:18,040 --> 01:40:21,439
Speaker 1: There's so many like ethical solution, I mean, which is

1809
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:24,519
Speaker 1: the story of incarceration. But it's just it's so and

1810
01:40:24,600 --> 01:40:27,240
Speaker 1: I love I do. I this was the first time

1811
01:40:27,280 --> 01:40:30,360
Speaker 1: I watching the movie that I really was like, I

1812
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:35,240
Speaker 1: guess paying closer attention to Pendance Key specifically. I think

1813
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:39,200
Speaker 1: it's like such a well written character where he is

1814
01:40:39,439 --> 01:40:43,200
Speaker 1: being presented as the nice guy, but over the course

1815
01:40:43,240 --> 01:40:46,360
Speaker 1: of the movie is so clear that he's not the

1816
01:40:46,439 --> 01:40:49,799
Speaker 1: nice guy. He is the he like tortures zero because

1817
01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:52,400
Speaker 1: he doesn't think that he will get in trouble for

1818
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:55,600
Speaker 1: not being kind to him, and he's right, and the

1819
01:40:55,680 --> 01:40:59,200
Speaker 1: whole you know government name thing he like explicitly ties

1820
01:40:59,320 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 1: your government to your like that's the name you will

1821
01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:07,920
Speaker 1: contribute to society under. So that's your name, and saying

1822
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:10,720
Speaker 1: when he's when they're doing like group or whatever. And

1823
01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:14,480
Speaker 1: that's where we find out about Magnet and his puppy

1824
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:19,160
Speaker 1: is that you know, he is repeating these I think

1825
01:41:19,400 --> 01:41:24,120
Speaker 1: very like it's giving DNC to me, Like he is

1826
01:41:24,240 --> 01:41:27,400
Speaker 1: he is saying, like, no, what you did was a crime.

1827
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:30,599
Speaker 1: It's against the law, and therefore it's bad. And it's

1828
01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:34,200
Speaker 1: just like, you know, the place he works for doesn't

1829
01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:38,200
Speaker 1: work if you challenge an institution, and so he while

1830
01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:41,559
Speaker 1: he is like I think that, like mister sir calls

1831
01:41:41,560 --> 01:41:44,840
Speaker 1: it like that, like touchy feely, fuzzy stuff, blah blah blah. Yeah,

1832
01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 1: but all Pendansky does is pretend to care. Like we

1833
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:52,559
Speaker 1: don't see him ever defend any of the kids. We

1834
01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:56,080
Speaker 1: don't see him protect them, Like he folds the second

1835
01:41:56,680 --> 01:41:59,519
Speaker 1: that someone with more power than him asks him to

1836
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:00,160
Speaker 1: do something.

1837
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:01,599
Speaker 3: He's a coward.

1838
01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:02,479
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1839
01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:07,639
Speaker 6: And also just his response when like everybody's like, don't

1840
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:12,920
Speaker 6: teach Hector to read, which is wild, that's that arc

1841
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:15,639
Speaker 6: I was like, whoa, hold on, hold on, why don't

1842
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:16,759
Speaker 6: we want Hector to read?

1843
01:42:17,400 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 5: Like I get why you don't want him to dig

1844
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:19,799
Speaker 5: the hole?

1845
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:25,720
Speaker 1: But it's another great like it's so good. There's a

1846
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:29,880
Speaker 1: really good video essay that I was rewatching by I

1847
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:33,880
Speaker 1: believe Yaharazade or I hope I'm saying her name right,

1848
01:42:34,160 --> 01:42:37,439
Speaker 1: Yaharazide called holes in the prison industrial complex and she

1849
01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:41,320
Speaker 1: like ties that explicitly to like, the kids aren't doing

1850
01:42:41,360 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 1: anything wrong. They're being told that they are going to

1851
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:46,800
Speaker 1: improve themselves, so why would you get in trouble for

1852
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:50,559
Speaker 1: literally reading? But again, it's like the institution is based

1853
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:55,559
Speaker 1: on barring Zero from the education he deserves because then

1854
01:42:55,560 --> 01:43:00,080
Speaker 1: it's easier to exploit him. And like, just right darkest.

1855
01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:04,120
Speaker 6: About the theme of literacy is that they keep the

1856
01:43:04,280 --> 01:43:08,320
Speaker 6: shovels in uh ad, that says live library.

1857
01:43:08,479 --> 01:43:09,599
Speaker 1: I thought it was a good touch.

1858
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:13,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, I had to pause it, but I was like,

1859
01:43:13,280 --> 01:43:15,559
Speaker 6: oh no, I didn't notice that before.

1860
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:16,639
Speaker 5: That's very upset.

1861
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:22,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, there, And also that the oppressors of this movie.

1862
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:24,960
Speaker 1: It is kind of a funny, like woman can do

1863
01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:29,120
Speaker 1: it too, and you're like, it's true, but it's you know,

1864
01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:31,840
Speaker 1: the people at the top of this operation are white,

1865
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:37,480
Speaker 1: and they're all sort of representing different kinds of oppression,

1866
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:41,120
Speaker 1: where like mister Zur and Panansky are equally bad, but

1867
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:46,440
Speaker 1: they are presenting a different approach to being pro incarceration.

1868
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:50,880
Speaker 1: Like I it's just it's so well written. And then

1869
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:55,080
Speaker 1: the snake nail Polish, I mean, hello.

1870
01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:56,000
Speaker 5: Love the snake nail Poli.

1871
01:43:56,160 --> 01:43:59,040
Speaker 6: I love the idea of like the women in this

1872
01:43:59,120 --> 01:44:01,920
Speaker 6: story having these weapons like kissing.

1873
01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:02,800
Speaker 5: Kate Barlowe is.

1874
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:05,800
Speaker 6: Known, Yes, she shoots people, but then she kisses them

1875
01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:08,520
Speaker 6: and that's what she's known for. Is this red lipstick

1876
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:11,720
Speaker 6: mark that she leaves behind is her sort of like signature,

1877
01:44:12,240 --> 01:44:16,160
Speaker 6: and then the warden has her nail polish that she

1878
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:19,200
Speaker 6: then uses to like put these men in line. And

1879
01:44:19,240 --> 01:44:23,519
Speaker 6: this idea and like poison being traditionally a preferred method

1880
01:44:23,760 --> 01:44:26,040
Speaker 6: of like violence for women.

1881
01:44:26,439 --> 01:44:29,439
Speaker 5: I thought that was really interesting. And you know, there

1882
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:32,080
Speaker 5: are a lot of women in here, but they make

1883
01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 5: it count. Wh Yeah, when they're hurting people, they make

1884
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:35,800
Speaker 5: it count.

1885
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:39,719
Speaker 3: And I don't even mind that they're not the many

1886
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:41,080
Speaker 3: women in this movie.

1887
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:44,080
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's about especially because it's about like

1888
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:48,240
Speaker 1: a gendered incarcerated like it makes sense. I do think that,

1889
01:44:48,360 --> 01:44:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, it is good. I guess we got Orange

1890
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:54,639
Speaker 1: just the new Black. You know, it's there was media

1891
01:44:54,720 --> 01:44:57,799
Speaker 1: down the line about incarcerated women, which is equally important

1892
01:44:57,800 --> 01:44:58,600
Speaker 1: to talk about.

1893
01:44:58,920 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 3: And maybe more with this Disney Plus reboot, which I

1894
01:45:03,000 --> 01:45:03,559
Speaker 3: wrote down the.

1895
01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:05,280
Speaker 1: Joke I'm calling it it's not happening.

1896
01:45:05,439 --> 01:45:08,360
Speaker 3: Well, if it does, they should call it Girl is

1897
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:11,920
Speaker 3: the New Boy. And that's the amazing joke I wrote down.

1898
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:13,760
Speaker 1: Really good.

1899
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:16,439
Speaker 6: I hope that it gets green lit and that they

1900
01:45:16,520 --> 01:45:18,719
Speaker 6: hire me, and then I want to write the episode

1901
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:20,839
Speaker 6: about when one of the girls gets her first period

1902
01:45:20,880 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 6: in the middle of digging her hole, and everybody else

1903
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:25,240
Speaker 6: has to help her finish digging her hole because she

1904
01:45:25,280 --> 01:45:25,919
Speaker 6: has cramps.

1905
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:28,880
Speaker 5: And that's womanhood and that's solidarity.

1906
01:45:29,400 --> 01:45:35,439
Speaker 1: Hire me, that is Disney solidarity. Yeah, as long as

1907
01:45:35,479 --> 01:45:38,600
Speaker 1: they bring back Sigourney Weaver, because that, I mean that

1908
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:42,840
Speaker 1: character would get out of jail. It lickety split, I guess.

1909
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:45,519
Speaker 1: The other just contrasting the yeah, because you really only

1910
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:48,120
Speaker 1: get like one woman in each timeline, because you have

1911
01:45:48,200 --> 01:45:52,360
Speaker 1: Madam Zeroni in one timeline kissing Kate Barlowe in another timeline,

1912
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:56,679
Speaker 1: and Sigourney Weaver, I mean, Stanley Yale's mom is barely

1913
01:45:56,920 --> 01:45:57,240
Speaker 1: in it.

1914
01:45:57,760 --> 01:45:59,280
Speaker 3: Like I do.

1915
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:01,200
Speaker 1: Like that they go out of their way to show

1916
01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:04,800
Speaker 1: again that like all of these kids we are led

1917
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:08,280
Speaker 1: to believe are from poor backgrounds to different degrees, but

1918
01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:12,400
Speaker 1: like it, Stanley is from a family that's just scraping by.

1919
01:46:12,520 --> 01:46:16,479
Speaker 1: They're almost getting evicted, and you still see that there

1920
01:46:16,720 --> 01:46:20,280
Speaker 1: is like he is emotionally cared for and loved, which

1921
01:46:20,320 --> 01:46:22,479
Speaker 1: I think often you know, like poor parents are made

1922
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:25,920
Speaker 1: out to be negligent. I think you can say, although

1923
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:29,400
Speaker 1: we don't get to know Zero's mom at all, I

1924
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:34,240
Speaker 1: did appreciate that again, like an unhoused character literally, the

1925
01:46:34,320 --> 01:46:38,000
Speaker 1: two unhoused characters you get in children's media if you

1926
01:46:38,000 --> 01:46:42,000
Speaker 1: were a kid at this time are Zero and Aladdin,

1927
01:46:42,439 --> 01:46:46,639
Speaker 1: and they are They're both characters who when they take

1928
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 1: we know why they're doing it, is like because they

1929
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:52,720
Speaker 1: need to survive, and the movies, their respective movies don't

1930
01:46:52,720 --> 01:46:56,120
Speaker 1: pass judgment on them for doing that. And I appreciated that.

1931
01:46:56,479 --> 01:46:59,680
Speaker 1: I wish we could have known her more, but that

1932
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:05,200
Speaker 1: the movie takes care to say that Zero's mom wasn't negligent.

1933
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:09,040
Speaker 1: It was all of these systemic issues that separated them

1934
01:47:09,040 --> 01:47:12,120
Speaker 1: from each other. And again that's just like I wish

1935
01:47:12,160 --> 01:47:14,599
Speaker 1: that that had almost been emphasized more by letting us

1936
01:47:14,640 --> 01:47:18,240
Speaker 1: get to know her, because you know, like unhouse characters

1937
01:47:18,280 --> 01:47:23,960
Speaker 1: are so rare outside of punchlines and getting the full

1938
01:47:24,000 --> 01:47:27,400
Speaker 1: context for And also that like Zero took the shoes

1939
01:47:27,439 --> 01:47:30,840
Speaker 1: because he was living at the shelter, and you know,

1940
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:33,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I kind of forgot about

1941
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:39,760
Speaker 1: that portion of his character, and I really thought it

1942
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:41,719
Speaker 1: was handled quite well.

1943
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:44,640
Speaker 6: Also, he probably wouldn't have taken the shoes if he

1944
01:47:44,680 --> 01:47:48,880
Speaker 6: could have read so rightly, because he said that he

1945
01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:52,880
Speaker 6: did not know that they were Sweetfeet's shoes he just

1946
01:47:53,080 --> 01:47:55,479
Speaker 6: liked them and he took them. And I think that

1947
01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:57,439
Speaker 6: the you know, the weight of taking those shoes would

1948
01:47:57,479 --> 01:47:59,160
Speaker 6: have been different. Could he have read like the little

1949
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:01,880
Speaker 6: thing that said, oh sweet feet whatever.

1950
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:04,360
Speaker 1: His name is, shoes because he just needed shoes. Yeah,

1951
01:48:04,400 --> 01:48:07,080
Speaker 1: like you're saying like he got arrested for taking from

1952
01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:09,559
Speaker 1: a paylist. Like the kid just needed shoes and he

1953
01:48:09,640 --> 01:48:14,879
Speaker 1: wasn't being provided for. I just ah, I love Zero's character.

1954
01:48:15,240 --> 01:48:18,160
Speaker 6: And the shoes were donated to the shelter, so he

1955
01:48:18,320 --> 01:48:20,479
Speaker 6: was living at the shelter, those shoes were in.

1956
01:48:20,400 --> 01:48:23,840
Speaker 3: His mind for him, right, Yeah, totally. I also think

1957
01:48:23,840 --> 01:48:28,320
Speaker 3: it's interesting that there is acknowledgment that even though Stanley's

1958
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:34,080
Speaker 3: family is poor, they are still more socioeconomically privileged over

1959
01:48:35,040 --> 01:48:39,040
Speaker 3: Zero and his family, because there's that moment that Zero's describing,

1960
01:48:39,120 --> 01:48:41,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, my mom would sometimes have to like leave

1961
01:48:41,200 --> 01:48:43,200
Speaker 3: me at a park, you know, I would go to

1962
01:48:43,280 --> 01:48:46,400
Speaker 3: Laney Park, and Stanley's like, oh yeah, I used to

1963
01:48:46,479 --> 01:48:50,040
Speaker 3: go there all the time parentheses for fun with my family,

1964
01:48:50,439 --> 01:48:53,320
Speaker 3: and Zero says, yeah, I used to sleep, you know,

1965
01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:56,200
Speaker 3: in the tube under the swinging bridge or something. And

1966
01:48:56,240 --> 01:48:59,519
Speaker 3: you see the look on Stanley's face is like whoa

1967
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:03,959
Speaker 3: like his privilege is checked. And yeah, I just appreciate

1968
01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:08,120
Speaker 3: that the movie acknowledges that class difference. And I also

1969
01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:13,439
Speaker 3: think it's really effective in the Pananski character finding Zero

1970
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:16,760
Speaker 3: so worthless. Part of the reason he has it out

1971
01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:21,080
Speaker 3: for him is that Zero can't read, and Pandanski treats

1972
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:24,280
Speaker 3: that as as though it's a personal failure of Zero's.

1973
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:27,040
Speaker 3: Oh he if he can't read, he must not be smart.

1974
01:49:27,240 --> 01:49:31,040
Speaker 1: But it's so clearly is because he can't. And it's

1975
01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 1: like Pandanski acts as if because Zero can't read, he

1976
01:49:34,160 --> 01:49:38,439
Speaker 1: also cannot hear, like it is just like it is

1977
01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:41,479
Speaker 1: so oh, he's like to me, to me on this

1978
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:44,639
Speaker 1: viewing the most evil character in the movie, because he's

1979
01:49:44,800 --> 01:49:47,839
Speaker 1: a fucking coward, like he does think he's a good person.

1980
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 1: I very least don't think mister sirr or Sigourney Weaver

1981
01:49:53,120 --> 01:49:54,880
Speaker 1: are like I'm an amazing They're like, yeah, I'm a

1982
01:49:54,920 --> 01:49:57,479
Speaker 1: piece of shit and I and I don't care if

1983
01:49:57,560 --> 01:49:59,720
Speaker 1: children die. I think Pandanski goes home at the end

1984
01:49:59,720 --> 01:50:02,240
Speaker 1: of the night is like I'm doing right by these boys,

1985
01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:06,559
Speaker 1: and there I'm better and there's I mean, I feel

1986
01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:11,160
Speaker 1: like every kid encountered a teacher like that who is

1987
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:16,280
Speaker 1: like cruel to and not no disrespect to the teachers,

1988
01:50:16,360 --> 01:50:21,320
Speaker 1: Like but but I mean, I clearly remember the art

1989
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:23,679
Speaker 1: teacher at my elementary school who would pick on kids

1990
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:25,599
Speaker 1: and say it was like for their own good and

1991
01:50:25,640 --> 01:50:29,200
Speaker 1: clearly had no issue with I'm like the art teacher.

1992
01:50:29,320 --> 01:50:32,960
Speaker 6: Come on, Teaching is a tough job, and I'm so

1993
01:50:33,080 --> 01:50:34,920
Speaker 6: glad that there are people who are committed to doing

1994
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:35,920
Speaker 6: it and doing it well.

1995
01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:36,840
Speaker 5: Few are and.

1996
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:39,519
Speaker 6: Fewer people because administrators at schools are making it so

1997
01:50:39,600 --> 01:50:43,800
Speaker 6: much more difficult, and then the turnover is getting outrageous.

1998
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:48,960
Speaker 6: But there's always one teacher who is like, I just

1999
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:52,320
Speaker 6: want to be able to have beef with children, and.

2000
01:50:52,360 --> 01:50:54,880
Speaker 1: You're like what, And so often I feel like they're

2001
01:50:54,920 --> 01:50:58,840
Speaker 1: in administrative positions. Now I'm just projecting my mom's entire career,

2002
01:50:58,960 --> 01:51:03,400
Speaker 1: but like like it's yeah, I don't know, Pandanzky piece

2003
01:51:03,400 --> 01:51:05,080
Speaker 1: of shit. And then I do like that they add

2004
01:51:05,080 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 1: the bit at the end of like he doesn't even

2005
01:51:07,280 --> 01:51:11,639
Speaker 1: have a degree, because what, like what teacher would agree

2006
01:51:11,680 --> 01:51:13,800
Speaker 1: to work there that isn't fraudulent?

2007
01:51:15,360 --> 01:51:18,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So a lot of that I found to

2008
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:22,920
Speaker 3: be very effective in the movie. There is a joke

2009
01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:25,840
Speaker 3: that rubbed me the wrong way. At the very end

2010
01:51:26,120 --> 01:51:31,800
Speaker 3: where whatever officials show up with Stanley's lawyer, I don't

2011
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:36,320
Speaker 3: know if it's like DA's or something, but it's like

2012
01:51:36,400 --> 01:51:39,760
Speaker 3: people with some kind of authority, and one of them

2013
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:43,760
Speaker 3: recognizes mister Sirrh and mister Surr gets arrested because he's

2014
01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:47,479
Speaker 3: in violation of his parole and there is a reveal

2015
01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:50,720
Speaker 3: of his real name, mister Surr's real name, which is

2016
01:51:51,120 --> 01:51:55,200
Speaker 3: marian Sevillo, and the boys are like, marian, I didn't

2017
01:51:55,200 --> 01:51:58,080
Speaker 3: know that was a man's name, and he's like, it

2018
01:51:58,160 --> 01:52:01,400
Speaker 3: isn't and it's meant to like escalate him and be

2019
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:05,280
Speaker 3: one more layer of humiliation for him because he has

2020
01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:08,320
Speaker 3: a quote unquote woman's name, And it just felt like

2021
01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:12,839
Speaker 3: a cheap joke that was below the movie in general,

2022
01:52:13,000 --> 01:52:13,439
Speaker 3: I think.

2023
01:52:13,600 --> 01:52:16,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I didn't love it.

2024
01:52:16,439 --> 01:52:18,880
Speaker 5: And it's like it's genuinely not funny.

2025
01:52:19,120 --> 01:52:21,120
Speaker 1: No, no, yes, not for nothing.

2026
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:24,120
Speaker 6: I'll admit when a joke is like, oh this is problematic,

2027
01:52:24,200 --> 01:52:28,840
Speaker 6: but also I giggle a little despite myself, But like

2028
01:52:28,920 --> 01:52:31,839
Speaker 6: the Merry joke is not even there's nothing funny about it.

2029
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:33,600
Speaker 6: It's not even like a silly sounding name. It's a

2030
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:37,439
Speaker 6: very normal sounding name that is just oh, girls have it.

2031
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a yeah as a Jamie. He's fine, fine, right,

2032
01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:48,760
Speaker 1: it's actually it's great having a gender fluid name. It's fun. Yeah,

2033
01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 1: that was not great, but I think, you know, a

2034
01:52:51,479 --> 01:52:52,880
Speaker 1: comparatively small.

2035
01:52:53,400 --> 01:52:56,720
Speaker 3: Totally yeah, one of the few blemishes on an otherwise

2036
01:52:56,800 --> 01:52:57,639
Speaker 3: perfect movie.

2037
01:52:57,960 --> 01:53:02,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's everything I had.

2038
01:53:02,120 --> 01:53:05,519
Speaker 6: I wanted to say something about the music. Obviously we've

2039
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:08,400
Speaker 6: talked about dig it. There is a lullaby. We didn't

2040
01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:12,120
Speaker 6: really talk about the lullaby very much. That when Elia

2041
01:53:12,479 --> 01:53:15,840
Speaker 6: was taking the pig up the mountain, he had to

2042
01:53:15,840 --> 01:53:19,000
Speaker 6: sing to the pig, and it was like if only,

2043
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:21,080
Speaker 6: if only at the woodpecker's size, the bark on the

2044
01:53:21,120 --> 01:53:22,639
Speaker 6: trees were as soft as the sguise.

2045
01:53:23,120 --> 01:53:25,519
Speaker 5: There's something about wolves. I don't remember the rest of it.

2046
01:53:27,360 --> 01:53:31,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know he's supposed to sing it when

2047
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:34,720
Speaker 3: he takes Madame Seroni up, which, as we all know,

2048
01:53:35,080 --> 01:53:36,120
Speaker 3: drop the ball on that.

2049
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:39,200
Speaker 5: Should it turned around taken the next boat. I stand

2050
01:53:39,200 --> 01:53:39,479
Speaker 5: by that.

2051
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:44,000
Speaker 6: And then I think that it's really sweet that Stanley

2052
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:47,839
Speaker 6: does sing this song when they get to God's Thumb

2053
01:53:48,280 --> 01:53:52,160
Speaker 6: and when Hector is drinking the water and it makes

2054
01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:55,280
Speaker 6: him strong, and that's kind of like the last piece

2055
01:53:55,600 --> 01:53:57,599
Speaker 6: of sort of breaking the curse.

2056
01:53:58,520 --> 01:54:00,120
Speaker 5: And the other thing is.

2057
01:54:00,160 --> 01:54:05,000
Speaker 6: They did a like studio song version of that song

2058
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:09,400
Speaker 6: in the end credits, if you stay till the very

2059
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:11,760
Speaker 6: end of the credits there they do that song as

2060
01:54:11,800 --> 01:54:14,840
Speaker 6: the last one, and then there's a scene of Zero

2061
01:54:15,479 --> 01:54:19,320
Speaker 6: saying like Madam Zeroni's line that if you forget to

2062
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:23,320
Speaker 6: come for Madame Zeroni, your family will be cursed forever

2063
01:54:23,439 --> 01:54:24,519
Speaker 6: and all it.

2064
01:54:25,439 --> 01:54:29,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, however, the kid's voice, so he does a line

2065
01:54:29,320 --> 01:54:31,400
Speaker 4: reading of that, and it's very cute, but the song

2066
01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:35,280
Speaker 4: actually kind of slaps and it's giving, like very early

2067
01:54:35,320 --> 01:54:37,440
Speaker 4: two thousand's, late nineties.

2068
01:54:37,000 --> 01:54:41,760
Speaker 6: Like soft rock, sort of like a Matchbox twenty Moby.

2069
01:54:41,920 --> 01:54:43,080
Speaker 2: There's a Moby.

2070
01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:45,760
Speaker 1: Song in it. I did not know that that's of

2071
01:54:45,800 --> 01:54:48,440
Speaker 1: the time there is bravely a Moby's song.

2072
01:54:49,080 --> 01:54:52,200
Speaker 6: But so I looked at I rewound the video and

2073
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:55,440
Speaker 6: I looked at who because I always like reading the

2074
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:57,920
Speaker 6: little music things and I wasn't paying attention, and I

2075
01:54:57,960 --> 01:55:01,000
Speaker 6: saw that it was by somebody called like fiction Plane

2076
01:55:01,560 --> 01:55:04,760
Speaker 6: or something like that, and hold, then I wrote it down.

2077
01:55:04,800 --> 01:55:07,080
Speaker 6: I don't know why I'm pretending that I can't read.

2078
01:55:07,560 --> 01:55:11,960
Speaker 6: Uh yeah, fiction Plane. They sang the song if Only,

2079
01:55:12,920 --> 01:55:16,080
Speaker 6: and the lead singer of fiction Plane is a man

2080
01:55:16,160 --> 01:55:20,160
Speaker 6: named Joe Sumner, who is Sting's son.

2081
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:26,800
Speaker 1: No way, yeah wow. And Sting was in the Disney

2082
01:55:26,800 --> 01:55:31,280
Speaker 1: Expanded Universe because of Emperor's New Groove. I wonder if

2083
01:55:31,320 --> 01:55:34,920
Speaker 1: he pulled some strings there, if he pulled some stings

2084
01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:40,280
Speaker 1: Sting some stings there, if anyone ever, I think it's

2085
01:55:40,360 --> 01:55:43,880
Speaker 1: it's It is occasionally re uploaded to YouTube. There is like,

2086
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:46,240
Speaker 1: I don't know why I find it so compelling. Well,

2087
01:55:46,240 --> 01:55:50,960
Speaker 1: it's an interesting documentary about production. But Sting was originally

2088
01:55:51,200 --> 01:55:53,600
Speaker 1: like The Emperor's New Grave Groove. The production of that

2089
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:54,520
Speaker 1: movie is fascinating.

2090
01:55:54,960 --> 01:55:55,240
Speaker 5: But it was.

2091
01:55:55,240 --> 01:55:58,360
Speaker 1: Originally a much more serious story and then turned into

2092
01:55:58,720 --> 01:56:03,160
Speaker 1: David's Bade comedy. But Sting wrote this really like he

2093
01:56:03,240 --> 01:56:05,440
Speaker 1: thought he was doing Elton john and The Lion King.

2094
01:56:05,800 --> 01:56:09,080
Speaker 1: So he wrote all of these serious stories, and his

2095
01:56:09,320 --> 01:56:13,680
Speaker 1: wife was making a documentary, assuming like, oh, we're gonna

2096
01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:16,320
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like Elton. You're Elton john Ning, so

2097
01:56:16,480 --> 01:56:19,720
Speaker 1: I should document this, and you just see the production

2098
01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:23,040
Speaker 1: completely fall apart. There's so many shots of Sting being

2099
01:56:23,080 --> 01:56:25,480
Speaker 1: bummed out in his mansion because he's like, they deleted

2100
01:56:25,480 --> 01:56:28,320
Speaker 1: in another one of my songs, or I think he's British.

2101
01:56:28,920 --> 01:56:30,720
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, he's British.

2102
01:56:31,040 --> 01:56:35,160
Speaker 1: But but it's so interesting. It's specific watching Sting slowly

2103
01:56:35,200 --> 01:56:37,360
Speaker 1: realize all of his music is going to be deleted.

2104
01:56:37,360 --> 01:56:42,280
Speaker 1: And it's actually a David Spade comedy. If you ever

2105
01:56:42,280 --> 01:56:45,680
Speaker 1: wanted to see Sting become really depressed in the space

2106
01:56:45,680 --> 01:56:48,080
Speaker 1: of eighty minutes, it's an interesting documentary.

2107
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:50,280
Speaker 6: Why would I want them to do that? Did Joe

2108
01:56:50,320 --> 01:56:51,200
Speaker 6: Sumner's father?

2109
01:56:53,080 --> 01:56:57,040
Speaker 1: My theory is that Disney was like, we we got

2110
01:56:57,040 --> 01:56:59,640
Speaker 1: a tossing a bone, we got a tossing a bone,

2111
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:02,360
Speaker 1: we did a so Dirty on Emperor's New Groove, another

2112
01:57:02,440 --> 01:57:06,760
Speaker 1: Earth a Kit joint. Yeah, it's all connected, it really is.

2113
01:57:07,040 --> 01:57:09,360
Speaker 6: But yeah, seeing that and like the song was actually

2114
01:57:09,360 --> 01:57:12,440
Speaker 6: really interesting because I found it to be very moving

2115
01:57:12,720 --> 01:57:15,280
Speaker 6: and it was just sort of like, what if the

2116
01:57:15,360 --> 01:57:17,720
Speaker 6: bark on the trees was as soft a disguise? What

2117
01:57:17,800 --> 01:57:20,360
Speaker 6: if things were easy? What if life was different? And

2118
01:57:20,400 --> 01:57:23,840
Speaker 6: I was just like, yeah, what if what if? Joe?

2119
01:57:24,320 --> 01:57:29,360
Speaker 5: And just the the Sting reveal was very surprising to.

2120
01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:31,360
Speaker 1: Me, just when you didn't think Sting was going to

2121
01:57:31,560 --> 01:57:35,360
Speaker 1: get his way into the holes expanded universe. There he is.

2122
01:57:35,560 --> 01:57:39,600
Speaker 5: And then I like did some digging.

2123
01:57:41,720 --> 01:57:44,560
Speaker 6: I did some digging on Joe Sumner and I saw

2124
01:57:44,600 --> 01:57:48,200
Speaker 6: that he later invented an app in like twenty ten

2125
01:57:48,600 --> 01:57:53,480
Speaker 6: or twenty eleven that enabled people who go to concerts

2126
01:57:54,000 --> 01:57:57,480
Speaker 6: to upload their videos to this app, and all the

2127
01:57:57,520 --> 01:58:00,280
Speaker 6: people that went to the concert would upload their yes

2128
01:58:00,280 --> 01:58:03,000
Speaker 6: that they took and it would basically create a concert

2129
01:58:03,360 --> 01:58:07,080
Speaker 6: movie with the different angles that people oh did and the.

2130
01:58:07,040 --> 01:58:10,080
Speaker 5: Apps until like twenty sixteen and bring it back.

2131
01:58:10,360 --> 01:58:11,000
Speaker 2: That's cool.

2132
01:58:11,280 --> 01:58:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would do so much better now too, right,

2133
01:58:14,240 --> 01:58:15,760
Speaker 1: I think like, bring it back?

2134
01:58:16,040 --> 01:58:18,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, Joe, if you're listening, bring it back.

2135
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:22,880
Speaker 1: Joe biggest fans, We're big fans. I'm sorry to make

2136
01:58:22,920 --> 01:58:25,640
Speaker 1: fun of when your dad was upset about and for

2137
01:58:25,720 --> 01:58:29,560
Speaker 1: his new groove. I would have been upset too, But yeah,

2138
01:58:29,600 --> 01:58:30,480
Speaker 1: I just wanted to.

2139
01:58:30,600 --> 01:58:33,320
Speaker 6: Bring that little factory because I thought that was fascinating,

2140
01:58:33,560 --> 01:58:35,360
Speaker 6: very interesting and unexpected.

2141
01:58:35,640 --> 01:58:35,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2142
01:58:36,280 --> 01:58:39,920
Speaker 3: Does anyone have anything else they want to talk about?

2143
01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:41,640
Speaker 5: No, I'm good, I got it.

2144
01:58:41,720 --> 01:58:45,040
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Yeah, I'm going to reread Wayside School.

2145
01:58:45,400 --> 01:58:46,400
Speaker 1: That's my I.

2146
01:58:46,360 --> 01:58:48,160
Speaker 3: Love those books so much. I haven't read them in

2147
01:58:48,200 --> 01:58:50,520
Speaker 3: like thirty years.

2148
01:58:50,360 --> 01:58:52,040
Speaker 1: So they're so silly.

2149
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:58,200
Speaker 3: Well, as we discussed, the movie does pass the Bechdel test,

2150
01:58:58,680 --> 01:59:03,800
Speaker 3: albeit briefly. It passes. It passes a pass as far

2151
01:59:03,840 --> 01:59:07,600
Speaker 3: as our nipple scale, though, where we rate the movie

2152
01:59:07,760 --> 01:59:12,360
Speaker 3: based on a scale of zero to five nipples, examining

2153
01:59:12,360 --> 01:59:18,160
Speaker 3: it through an intersectional feminist lens. Oh boy, I don't know.

2154
01:59:18,720 --> 01:59:20,640
Speaker 3: I feel like, are sure it applies.

2155
01:59:20,960 --> 01:59:23,680
Speaker 1: Our scale is kind of tricky to apply here. I mean,

2156
01:59:23,760 --> 01:59:26,680
Speaker 1: I think in terms of like intersectionality, this movie does

2157
01:59:27,520 --> 01:59:30,600
Speaker 1: well in that it brings up issues I've never seen

2158
01:59:30,640 --> 01:59:35,160
Speaker 1: brought up in uh children's movie about like justice and

2159
01:59:35,280 --> 01:59:40,120
Speaker 1: oppression and school to prison pipeline, and this movie is

2160
01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:42,240
Speaker 1: doing so much.

2161
01:59:42,600 --> 01:59:43,040
Speaker 3: I agree.

2162
01:59:43,120 --> 01:59:45,040
Speaker 1: You feel like the nipple scale is like difficult to

2163
01:59:45,080 --> 01:59:45,520
Speaker 1: apply here.

2164
01:59:45,600 --> 01:59:45,800
Speaker 6: It is.

2165
01:59:47,720 --> 01:59:49,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I give it.

2166
01:59:51,520 --> 01:59:53,760
Speaker 1: I would say I give it five wholes.

2167
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:58,120
Speaker 3: File Okay, so not the nipple scale today is the

2168
01:59:58,160 --> 02:00:00,600
Speaker 3: whole scale zero to five holes.

2169
02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:03,360
Speaker 1: This is the movie holes. So I'm giving it five holes.

2170
02:00:03,600 --> 02:00:07,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, say I'm giving it five holes the end.

2171
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:09,640
Speaker 6: If I had to give it on a scale of

2172
02:00:09,720 --> 02:00:13,960
Speaker 6: zero to five holes, holes, yes, five holes, six holes.

2173
02:00:13,960 --> 02:00:17,760
Speaker 6: Even I know I'm an extra hole because they did

2174
02:00:17,800 --> 02:00:19,680
Speaker 6: one last holes like one.

2175
02:00:19,640 --> 02:00:23,480
Speaker 1: Last job, and the bonus hole could forget.

2176
02:00:23,720 --> 02:00:26,320
Speaker 6: If I genuinely had to do it on a nipple scale,

2177
02:00:26,400 --> 02:00:28,440
Speaker 6: I think I would actually give it, like surprisingly, like

2178
02:00:28,480 --> 02:00:30,760
Speaker 6: three and a half nipples, like a lot of nipples

2179
02:00:31,400 --> 02:00:33,360
Speaker 6: for a woman free.

2180
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:38,760
Speaker 7: Movie one woman per decade, just because like when we

2181
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:43,040
Speaker 7: talk about intersectionality, yes we're talking about women and representation

2182
02:00:43,080 --> 02:00:46,400
Speaker 7: of women, but the things that matter at the end

2183
02:00:46,440 --> 02:00:49,680
Speaker 7: of the day are deconstructing these systems and it's talking

2184
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:53,280
Speaker 7: about how these systems are flawed and bringing attention to

2185
02:00:53,320 --> 02:00:55,040
Speaker 7: these systems that do affect women.

2186
02:00:55,280 --> 02:00:57,000
Speaker 6: And even though they're showing it in the context of

2187
02:00:57,000 --> 02:01:03,080
Speaker 6: it affecting teenage boys, unless you're Disney US, it still

2188
02:01:03,440 --> 02:01:06,760
Speaker 6: is something that is I think, and that positive for

2189
02:01:07,920 --> 02:01:11,720
Speaker 6: intersectional feminism. So like I because there aren't that many women,

2190
02:01:11,760 --> 02:01:15,840
Speaker 6: I can't give it five nipples, And because you know,

2191
02:01:16,080 --> 02:01:17,960
Speaker 6: at the end of the day, it's like this camp

2192
02:01:18,120 --> 02:01:22,200
Speaker 6: was the problem, not like the whole system. The state's

2193
02:01:22,240 --> 02:01:25,120
Speaker 6: not the problem. The camp is the problem. Right, But

2194
02:01:25,240 --> 02:01:29,080
Speaker 6: like three and a half nipples still pretty solid showing

2195
02:01:29,160 --> 02:01:32,280
Speaker 6: there for a movie again, like half a.

2196
02:01:32,240 --> 02:01:36,760
Speaker 1: Woman in it, truly, I mean, and yeah, I hope

2197
02:01:36,760 --> 02:01:42,120
Speaker 1: that I wish that this movie led to more media

2198
02:01:42,360 --> 02:01:45,600
Speaker 1: like or just kids media that addressed issues like this,

2199
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:49,640
Speaker 1: but it is still, twenty plus years later, pretty singular

2200
02:01:50,240 --> 02:01:53,920
Speaker 1: for the issues that because I mean, like if if

2201
02:01:54,120 --> 02:01:57,080
Speaker 1: a story like this kid, because I loved Nickel Boys,

2202
02:01:57,080 --> 02:01:59,000
Speaker 1: but it's very much not a movie for children.

2203
02:01:59,640 --> 02:02:04,200
Speaker 3: And well, if you count Paddington Too, that's I mean,

2204
02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:09,160
Speaker 3: I mean Paddington and Paddington Too are again indictments of

2205
02:02:09,400 --> 02:02:15,480
Speaker 3: the prison industrial complex of like anti immigrant hate and racism.

2206
02:02:15,640 --> 02:02:18,160
Speaker 3: So it's true that Paddington movies do it.

2207
02:02:18,280 --> 02:02:22,680
Speaker 1: So that's two there. But yeah, no, I mean, I

2208
02:02:22,680 --> 02:02:25,080
Speaker 1: I I don't know. It's it's a very special movie.

2209
02:02:25,120 --> 02:02:27,720
Speaker 1: I agree like it kind of broke the nipple scale

2210
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:30,720
Speaker 1: in my head. But I think your your rationalization makes

2211
02:02:30,720 --> 02:02:31,240
Speaker 1: a lot of sense.

2212
02:02:31,320 --> 02:02:32,600
Speaker 3: Grama totally thank.

2213
02:02:32,400 --> 02:02:33,880
Speaker 1: You for engaging with the show in a way that

2214
02:02:33,920 --> 02:02:34,920
Speaker 1: we were not willing to.

2215
02:02:36,800 --> 02:02:37,720
Speaker 5: That's what I'm here for.

2216
02:02:37,760 --> 02:02:40,280
Speaker 6: I ask the hard questions, how many nipples does this

2217
02:02:40,360 --> 02:02:41,400
Speaker 6: movie really deserve?

2218
02:02:41,840 --> 02:02:47,920
Speaker 3: Thanks for thanks for poking holes in our system by.

2219
02:02:49,200 --> 02:02:53,640
Speaker 6: I will also say Utopia tries not like this particular

2220
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:56,280
Speaker 6: set of issues, but Utopia does.

2221
02:02:56,360 --> 02:02:59,200
Speaker 1: Try to be like haters.

2222
02:02:59,480 --> 02:03:01,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would. It tries and it fails.

2223
02:03:01,520 --> 02:03:04,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't say it succeeded, but he tried. Yeah,

2224
02:03:04,760 --> 02:03:05,919
Speaker 5: there's some deep.

2225
02:03:05,800 --> 02:03:08,280
Speaker 6: Laws there where it's like, okay, but yeah, some people

2226
02:03:08,360 --> 02:03:09,320
Speaker 6: are predators.

2227
02:03:11,960 --> 02:03:16,400
Speaker 5: No, but like they tried to fix racism with.

2228
02:03:16,480 --> 02:03:19,320
Speaker 1: Animals, they're like, we didn't quite. Disney was like, we

2229
02:03:19,360 --> 02:03:23,200
Speaker 1: didn't quite do it with holes. Let's let's try the

2230
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:24,520
Speaker 1: animal copaganda movie.

2231
02:03:24,600 --> 02:03:24,720
Speaker 6: There.

2232
02:03:24,880 --> 02:03:28,840
Speaker 1: I do appreciate ultimately, and I feel like I'm talking

2233
02:03:28,840 --> 02:03:30,720
Speaker 1: a lot of shit. I'm trying. I am trying to

2234
02:03:30,720 --> 02:03:35,160
Speaker 1: get work. But anyways, that Disney was very hands off

2235
02:03:35,200 --> 02:03:37,040
Speaker 1: with this movie, because I think if Disney had been

2236
02:03:37,080 --> 02:03:40,320
Speaker 1: hands on with this movie, we would have gotten, you know,

2237
02:03:40,480 --> 02:03:44,440
Speaker 1: whatever this movie's version of Jim Carrey's count Oloff was.

2238
02:03:45,320 --> 02:03:47,320
Speaker 1: I think that it is like critical to the story

2239
02:03:47,360 --> 02:03:49,920
Speaker 1: working that you are scared for these kids and that

2240
02:03:50,000 --> 02:03:53,160
Speaker 1: you understand where they're coming from, and that their antagonists

2241
02:03:53,320 --> 02:03:57,960
Speaker 1: are you know, elevated, like the mister Sir is goofy

2242
02:03:58,240 --> 02:04:01,240
Speaker 1: in some ways, but not so goofy that he ceases

2243
02:04:01,320 --> 02:04:02,520
Speaker 1: to be scary.

2244
02:04:02,720 --> 02:04:05,360
Speaker 3: And yeah, totally, I think that.

2245
02:04:05,400 --> 02:04:09,040
Speaker 6: It's really a testament to the fact that like, you know,

2246
02:04:09,120 --> 02:04:11,560
Speaker 6: we talk a lot of shit generally, we not the

2247
02:04:11,600 --> 02:04:13,480
Speaker 6: three of us, but we society talk a lot of

2248
02:04:13,480 --> 02:04:16,720
Speaker 6: shit on these major corporations. And it's proof that they

2249
02:04:16,760 --> 02:04:23,320
Speaker 6: are capable of making these thoughtful movies and they can

2250
02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:24,200
Speaker 6: do it if they.

2251
02:04:24,080 --> 02:04:26,800
Speaker 1: Want to, right, So it's like, so why aren't they

2252
02:04:26,840 --> 02:04:27,160
Speaker 1: doing it?

2253
02:04:27,200 --> 02:04:30,560
Speaker 6: And it is also sometimes commercially successful when they do it,

2254
02:04:31,160 --> 02:04:33,600
Speaker 6: and I think that it's a good reminder, like, hey,

2255
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:35,480
Speaker 6: remember when you did this thing and you did it

2256
02:04:35,480 --> 02:04:38,040
Speaker 6: the way the creatives asked you to and it was

2257
02:04:38,080 --> 02:04:40,720
Speaker 6: wildly successful and it had a lot of a listers

2258
02:04:40,760 --> 02:04:43,240
Speaker 6: in it, and people are still talking about it twenty

2259
02:04:43,280 --> 02:04:46,280
Speaker 6: years later as a like shining example of the way

2260
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:46,920
Speaker 6: to do things.

2261
02:04:47,400 --> 02:04:50,680
Speaker 5: What if you rebooted that, What if you rebooted that spirit?

2262
02:04:51,000 --> 02:04:54,760
Speaker 1: They're like, well, no, let's do cgi dogs for Lady

2263
02:04:54,840 --> 02:04:57,880
Speaker 1: in the trimp. Let's do that One's.

2264
02:04:57,440 --> 02:04:59,440
Speaker 5: That word that's a joke, right, that's that's a joke.

2265
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:02,720
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's exit that. It came out five years ago. Unfortunately,

2266
02:05:02,960 --> 02:05:05,840
Speaker 1: it's very scary. It's a scary watch. It's scarier than

2267
02:05:05,880 --> 02:05:06,400
Speaker 1: mister sir.

2268
02:05:06,760 --> 02:05:07,280
Speaker 5: I did think a.

2269
02:05:07,240 --> 02:05:09,880
Speaker 6: Lady in the Tramp earlier because The Boy Dog is

2270
02:05:10,040 --> 02:05:13,560
Speaker 6: another example of a house representation in children's media.

2271
02:05:14,360 --> 02:05:17,800
Speaker 1: Forget I believe, I believe Lady in the I think

2272
02:05:17,880 --> 02:05:20,200
Speaker 1: Lady is Tessa Thompson.

2273
02:05:20,920 --> 02:05:23,320
Speaker 3: Sure, I never saw it.

2274
02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:26,800
Speaker 1: I think I was the only person that's yeah, it's

2275
02:05:26,840 --> 02:05:28,600
Speaker 1: Tessa Thompson and Justin Thurreau.

2276
02:05:28,760 --> 02:05:32,960
Speaker 3: And you're like, yeah, I was too busy gearing up

2277
02:05:33,040 --> 02:05:37,080
Speaker 3: for the live action Pinocchio Disney reboot.

2278
02:05:37,320 --> 02:05:40,800
Speaker 1: So shout out to the Pinocchio Wars on the Matreon.

2279
02:05:41,040 --> 02:05:43,360
Speaker 1: When speaking of which, Okay, let's wrap it. I'm hungry,

2280
02:05:43,400 --> 02:05:44,400
Speaker 1: let's wrap up the show.

2281
02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:46,920
Speaker 6: I just wanna say one last thing. Disney has been

2282
02:05:47,000 --> 02:05:49,640
Speaker 6: good to me personally, and I do you think follow

2283
02:05:49,840 --> 02:05:54,560
Speaker 6: the checks and I I'm just gonna say another thing

2284
02:05:54,560 --> 02:05:55,760
Speaker 6: and I forgot, So it doesn't matter.

2285
02:05:56,120 --> 02:05:58,480
Speaker 3: Disney is good to me and that it made and

2286
02:05:58,640 --> 02:05:59,640
Speaker 3: or my favorite show.

2287
02:06:00,080 --> 02:06:02,400
Speaker 1: I will say there, Disney is still making cool, weird

2288
02:06:02,400 --> 02:06:05,360
Speaker 1: stuff like I mean, you mentioned Bunked as a great example.

2289
02:06:06,160 --> 02:06:10,720
Speaker 1: I just finished work. I hope it gets renewed for

2290
02:06:10,800 --> 02:06:13,720
Speaker 1: all manner of reasons. But like a super silly kids

2291
02:06:13,760 --> 02:06:17,880
Speaker 1: show called Stugo. So if you have a kid, and

2292
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:20,640
Speaker 1: I think I would say like the Seven or eight range.

2293
02:06:21,560 --> 02:06:23,840
Speaker 1: That's a very silly, fun show that's on the Disney

2294
02:06:23,920 --> 02:06:26,560
Speaker 1: Channel right now. It's like speaking to your point, Grama.

2295
02:06:26,640 --> 02:06:28,920
Speaker 1: They can do it, so why not do it more?

2296
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:31,760
Speaker 1: Because people like it. This movie did make its money

2297
02:06:31,760 --> 02:06:35,880
Speaker 1: back and then some. It made believe seventy one million

2298
02:06:35,960 --> 02:06:40,000
Speaker 1: dollars off of a seventeen million dollar budget. But as

2299
02:06:40,160 --> 02:06:45,360
Speaker 1: is the way with many movies that have a lot

2300
02:06:45,400 --> 02:06:49,080
Speaker 1: of like author involvement and Disney being hands off, it

2301
02:06:49,120 --> 02:06:51,760
Speaker 1: does seem like the price for that was that everyone

2302
02:06:51,840 --> 02:06:54,879
Speaker 1: took a pay cut, because you cannot have a stacked

2303
02:06:54,920 --> 02:06:59,440
Speaker 1: cast like this for seventeen million dollars without a serious

2304
02:06:59,680 --> 02:07:03,040
Speaker 1: pay cut and throwing kids into one hundred and thirty

2305
02:07:03,080 --> 02:07:06,960
Speaker 1: degree holes. So while it is amazing that this is successful,

2306
02:07:07,000 --> 02:07:09,320
Speaker 1: I do feel like there is always some sort of

2307
02:07:09,400 --> 02:07:11,800
Speaker 1: exchange of like, oh, you want to make your perfect art,

2308
02:07:12,240 --> 02:07:16,320
Speaker 1: here's four dollars, bitch, you know. Like, but but I'm

2309
02:07:16,360 --> 02:07:18,080
Speaker 1: glad that this cast. I mean, I just feel like

2310
02:07:18,080 --> 02:07:20,560
Speaker 1: it's a perfectly cast movie. It's so good, it's.

2311
02:07:20,440 --> 02:07:24,960
Speaker 6: Very well done. I hope they do more holes in

2312
02:07:25,120 --> 02:07:25,600
Speaker 6: the world.

2313
02:07:25,880 --> 02:07:28,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Karama, thank you so much for coming back.

2314
02:07:28,920 --> 02:07:31,840
Speaker 1: You've covered such an interesting wide variety of movies on

2315
02:07:31,960 --> 02:07:32,280
Speaker 1: the show.

2316
02:07:33,600 --> 02:07:36,320
Speaker 6: I'm saying on the record, bring me back for Stepmom

2317
02:07:36,360 --> 02:07:37,760
Speaker 6: if you ever get around.

2318
02:07:37,720 --> 02:07:40,840
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely yes, And then so it'll be it's two

2319
02:07:40,920 --> 02:07:43,400
Speaker 3: Disney movies, two Jordan Peele movies.

2320
02:07:43,800 --> 02:07:46,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and then now and step in the future

2321
02:07:46,600 --> 02:07:47,560
Speaker 1: starting a new chapter.

2322
02:07:48,120 --> 02:07:50,360
Speaker 6: I'm gonna be like Tarantino. He said he was gonna

2323
02:07:50,400 --> 02:07:52,200
Speaker 6: like do eight movies and then never come back.

2324
02:07:52,240 --> 02:07:57,120
Speaker 1: Which you can't wait for that part, right, He's really

2325
02:07:57,200 --> 02:07:59,520
Speaker 1: dragging out the last one.

2326
02:07:59,640 --> 02:08:00,680
Speaker 5: I ever come back.

2327
02:08:01,040 --> 02:08:04,600
Speaker 3: No, you can come back after that, please do if

2328
02:08:04,600 --> 02:08:08,840
Speaker 3: you want. Anyway, where can people check out your stuff?

2329
02:08:09,000 --> 02:08:11,000
Speaker 3: Follow you on social media, etcetera?

2330
02:08:11,120 --> 02:08:15,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, at Karama Drama, on all the platforms that you

2331
02:08:15,840 --> 02:08:20,360
Speaker 6: might use. I started talking about libraries recently on my

2332
02:08:20,440 --> 02:08:24,080
Speaker 6: TikTok because I'm a big, big slat for libraries, love them.

2333
02:08:24,360 --> 02:08:26,080
Speaker 5: I have for library cards.

2334
02:08:26,120 --> 02:08:27,320
Speaker 1: Wow, hell yeah.

2335
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:29,760
Speaker 6: You can have a lot of library cards and get

2336
02:08:29,800 --> 02:08:31,000
Speaker 6: a lot of different things with them.

2337
02:08:31,080 --> 02:08:34,320
Speaker 5: I highly encourage you to go get do it for

2338
02:08:34,360 --> 02:08:35,640
Speaker 5: Hector Zeroni.

2339
02:08:35,920 --> 02:08:37,880
Speaker 1: The Hector Zerni Memorial Library.

2340
02:08:37,960 --> 02:08:40,080
Speaker 6: Go get a library card. Where can you guys be

2341
02:08:40,160 --> 02:08:41,840
Speaker 6: found using your.

2342
02:08:41,720 --> 02:08:42,480
Speaker 5: Library cards or not?

2343
02:08:43,400 --> 02:08:43,520
Speaker 6: Uh?

2344
02:08:43,840 --> 02:08:47,480
Speaker 1: You could? You can find us on mostly just Instagram

2345
02:08:47,480 --> 02:08:51,640
Speaker 1: these days. At Bechdel Cast, you could follow our Patreon

2346
02:08:51,680 --> 02:08:55,280
Speaker 1: aka maatreon at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast. We

2347
02:08:55,440 --> 02:08:58,120
Speaker 1: have shouted out The Pinocchio Wars, one of our best series,

2348
02:08:58,160 --> 02:09:00,400
Speaker 1: but we've had it since twenty seventeen. So for five

2349
02:09:00,440 --> 02:09:04,320
Speaker 1: dollars a month, you get two bonus episodes every single

2350
02:09:04,360 --> 02:09:07,200
Speaker 1: month and access to our back catalog which goes back

2351
02:09:07,240 --> 02:09:11,360
Speaker 1: almost ten years, so there's a lot of spicy content.

2352
02:09:11,400 --> 02:09:13,320
Speaker 1: That's actually where you will be able to listen to

2353
02:09:14,000 --> 02:09:17,560
Speaker 1: us discuss the prison industrial conflicts for a second time

2354
02:09:17,600 --> 02:09:20,600
Speaker 1: if you so choose, because we are covering Shawshank Redemption

2355
02:09:20,720 --> 02:09:23,760
Speaker 1: over on the Matreon this month, which is Holes for

2356
02:09:23,840 --> 02:09:24,360
Speaker 1: grown ups.

2357
02:09:25,160 --> 02:09:27,840
Speaker 3: Yes, I basically decided that for my birthday month, I

2358
02:09:27,880 --> 02:09:33,120
Speaker 3: wanted to do Holes, Shawshank Redemption and Oh Brother, Where

2359
02:09:33,200 --> 02:09:36,640
Speaker 3: Art Though? Which is a movie about three men escaping

2360
02:09:36,920 --> 02:09:39,640
Speaker 3: from prison, and one of them is Tim Blake Nelson

2361
02:09:39,760 --> 02:09:43,000
Speaker 3: who's also in Holes, So it's all connected, just the

2362
02:09:43,040 --> 02:09:44,280
Speaker 3: way the plot of Holes is.

2363
02:09:44,440 --> 02:09:48,000
Speaker 5: And both movies feature down in the river to pray.

2364
02:09:47,880 --> 02:09:51,520
Speaker 4: Right Yes wow, yeah, it thinks that they changed it

2365
02:09:51,560 --> 02:09:52,680
Speaker 4: to valley because there's no water.

2366
02:09:55,120 --> 02:09:59,360
Speaker 3: Yes, so that is what's happening over on the Matreon.

2367
02:09:59,480 --> 02:10:01,200
Speaker 3: As it is my birthday this month, it would be

2368
02:10:01,200 --> 02:10:05,040
Speaker 3: a nice little gift to me and to the podcast

2369
02:10:05,080 --> 02:10:09,000
Speaker 3: in general if you subscribe to the Matreon if you

2370
02:10:09,080 --> 02:10:11,640
Speaker 3: haven't already listeners and.

2371
02:10:11,720 --> 02:10:15,680
Speaker 1: Uh, with that, let's go to the yell NAT's pool

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Speaker 1: and watch a shoe commercial with our best friend, a

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Speaker 1: basketball player playing a baseball player.

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Speaker 3: Okay, bye, bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production

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Speaker 3: of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced

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Speaker 3: by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme song

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Speaker 3: was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Volskrosenski.

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Speaker 3: Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and

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Speaker 3: a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about

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Speaker 3: the podcast, please visit link tree slash Bechdel Cast