1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: Today's episode of There Are No Girls on the Internet 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: was actually taped live from Digital Lloyd's Our Connected Future 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: event a few weeks ago. So if you don't know 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: Digital Void, they are a great multimedia project that studies 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: the way that the Internet and technology shapes all of 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: our brains as humans. And at their event, I was 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: so excited to sit down with Amanda More. Amanda's story 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: is fascinating. She worked in live events until COVID hit 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: and then she lost her job, broke and struggling with 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: how to get connected with financial services like unemployment, she 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: did what anyone would do, created an alias and went 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: undercover into the world of white supremacists and far right 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: extremists for a year. Okay, so maybe not everybody would 17 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: do that, just Amanda. Amanda fed stories to journalists help 18 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: shine a light on the inner workings of the underbelly 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: of white supremacists. She was at the Capitol during the 20 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: insurrection on January six, and the night that we sat 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: down together at Washington d c's union stage. The trucker 22 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: convoy that started up in Canada was actively circling around 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: d C trying to create chaos, which I feel like 24 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: it's pretty fitting. Now. Amanda's story is a great reminder 25 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: of how much dangerous, difficult work of making our democracy 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: safer is being done by women. So let's listen. That's 27 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: my theme song. Remember me. I am Bridget Todd. I 28 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: am the host and creator of I Heart Radios. There 29 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet, a podcast where we 30 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: explore Oh alright, I'll take that. Yeah, that's mattering of 31 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: a pause. I have to say this is my first 32 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: live podcast taping, so if I seem a little nervous, 33 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: that is why. Um, you know, on the show, if 34 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: you don't know what it's about, we explore all the 35 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: different ways that marginalized folks, so women, people of color, transpolkes, 36 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: queer folks, all the different ways that we show up 37 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,399 Speaker 1: or don't show up online. And you know, a reality 38 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,119 Speaker 1: of this work is that time and time again, so 39 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: much of the work making Internet spaces safer, better, more 40 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: inclusive is being done by women and other marginalized folks. 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: And it is work that is dangerous. It is personally 42 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: costly and we hardly ever recognize that work. And that's 43 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'm so excited to be talking 44 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: to my first ever live podcast guests, Amanda give it 45 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: up for Amanda. This is also my first live podcast experience. 46 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: So we are We're in this together. We got this. 47 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: So Aman that you spent a year of your life 48 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: being embedded with some of the worst sort of far right, 49 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: extreme French folks, folks like UM. Give us a few 50 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: of the names of the folks that you were kicking 51 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: it with. So here's the worst part is that you 52 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: won't know their names, but they're busy writing legislation. But 53 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: they are like former members of Patriot Front and I 54 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: Didner Europa and other hate groups that you would recognize. 55 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: So how did this? How did you come to spend 56 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: a year of your life doing this? Take us take 57 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: us back? How did this start? UM? So, I've always 58 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: had an interest in politics. I was raised Evangelical. My 59 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: parents are both Trump voters, UM, and I was a 60 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: libertarian until I was like twenty six, which is super embarrassing. UM, 61 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: and a lot of people that I knew a libertarian 62 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: movement ended up moving into UM. The extreme far right 63 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: summer in jail. Some are you know, Proud Boys who 64 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: should probably be in jail. H Some you know, like 65 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: I was very I was not friends with Chris Kent well, 66 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: the crying Nazi from Charlottesville, but we knew people in common, 67 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: and um so I've always been able to kind of 68 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: move within that word world. And my job was just 69 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: completely belly up. I'm in live events, so it was 70 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: it ceased to exist. During COVID, had a lot of 71 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: free time, so I went to the top Steel rallies. 72 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: I kind of just walked to them and you know, 73 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: recorded whatever, and so that meant I was at the insurrection. 74 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: So then I was at the insurrection. I was like, 75 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: oh shit, this is this is real and we're really 76 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: going to do this now. And um I kind of 77 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: escalated from there without me attending for it too. Something 78 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: that you write about so interestingly is, you know, we 79 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: all know what happened here in d C on Januar 80 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: ray six, but you actually talk about the way that 81 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: the climate that was fostered at some of the earlier 82 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: events and earlier rallies in d C, um you know, 83 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: by people like the Proud Boys really did sort of 84 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: lead to what we saw on the six. Can you 85 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that, like, like, what were 86 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: you seeing in the lead up to what happened on 87 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: the six At some of these events, there's a moment 88 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: that will live in my mind for the rest of 89 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: my life. I was in front of the Supreme Court. 90 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: It was December, the December stop the Steel rally, and 91 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: this woman told me I was almost assaulted at the 92 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: November rally. And I asked her what happened and she 93 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: said she was walking back to the Trump Hotel and 94 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: her phone had died, and uh, some guys ran past 95 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: her and she she just took off running and that 96 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: that was it. That was the whole story. That was 97 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: the story of her near assault. And it was incredibly 98 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: strange to me at the time. And she said, you know, 99 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: she had to be like maybe fifty, and she said, 100 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: I marched the Proud Boys last night until two in 101 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: the morning. And you might recall the Proud Boys like 102 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: stab people when they were doing that. So um it 103 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: really it really just struck me that she was so 104 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: afraid of everybody here and everything in the situation of 105 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: just being in this liberal waste land where we're ninety 106 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: for Joe Biden, you know, um that she thought that 107 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: walking past her was almost assaulting her. And later that night, 108 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: I was in front of Harry's after another stabbing, and um, 109 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: we like I watched all the Proud Boys line up 110 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: and they started marching and chanting, and Alex Jones was 111 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: like giving us this pep talk, you know, seventeen seventy six, 112 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: seventeen seventy six. And then the probably started like going 113 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: off in groups of eight to ten, as though they 114 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: were like going off to war, and so like Grandpa's 115 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: or like telling them good luck, thank you, thank you, 116 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: thank you for your service. And they're just walking around 117 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: downtown do you see, like terrorizing whoever they see, And 118 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's so disgun from reality. But 119 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: there was this it felt like a coordinated campaign to 120 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: make everybody who flew here and came here from out 121 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: of town, whether they were from a real like city 122 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: or from you know, like the middle of nowhere, it 123 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: didn't matter to just feel like everybody here was against them. 124 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: And this this is Antifa. You're all Antifa. You know, 125 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: if you're here physically present, you are like an Antifa 126 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: super soldier. Um, and so just seeing that that coordinate 127 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: effort was bizarre. Yeah, It's something I like about your 128 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: work is that it really grounds it in this idea 129 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: that d C is a city where people live, and 130 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: that I think that for a lot of people, d 131 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: C is an abstraction. They don't understand that people actually 132 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: live here. And I have lived here most of my life, 133 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: and you know, I still have friends from different cities 134 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: who would swear that in d C burn of the 135 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: ground and like cease us to exist. I'll be like, oh, 136 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: how are you out there in d C? And I 137 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: think that your work helps us see that this is 138 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: a real city, if people live here, it's it's you know, 139 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: And so I really appreciate that. Um. You know, when 140 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: you think about how people report about extremist movements and 141 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: extreme these extremist figures, what is something that folks leave out? 142 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: What is something that you wish that people knew about 143 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: how these groups actually operate. I think there's a lot 144 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: of coverage of what the final result is without a 145 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: lot of coverage of like that lead up in I 146 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: first wrote about my experience of January six and the 147 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: lead up to it and talking about people feeling like 148 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: they were targeted just because they were like a Trump 149 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: supporter with in d C. And not just targeted for 150 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: people to really like you saw it go away, but 151 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: like targeted for like actual like violence. Um, A lot 152 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: of people reach out to me, were like, I had 153 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: no idea it was like that in DC. You know, 154 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: like a lot of people don't realize that Bowser told 155 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: us to stay home. Our mayor told us to stay 156 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: home and did not go out to that counter protest. 157 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: And she told us that three times. And it's you know, 158 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: in my opinions, possible that like January six could have 159 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: possibly not happened if more people had left their houses 160 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: in November December. And UM, I just think, you know, 161 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 1: something is missing because I am like, I've also lived 162 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: most of my life here and if I can see 163 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: that failure, and a lot of these journalists who are 164 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: writing about this, they lived here, and why can't they 165 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: see it? You know, I don't know. I don't know 166 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: if it's like an outlet issue whre they're not allowed 167 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: to publish something like that. But um, there's there's a 168 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: lot that goes on. UM. I think within the way 169 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: that movements are organized, when people get pushed back they 170 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: get really upset. Um. I mean, look at these truckers now, 171 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: they're literally like crying because people are giving them the finger. 172 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: And I'm someone that the truckers told to smile actually 173 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: on the side of the road. So um, you know, 174 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: I think like that component is missing, Like how how 175 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: these extreme ast actions affect people before it becomes violent crimes, 176 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: and like the situations which they live, um, and just 177 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: how people people interact the other things Like I'm just 178 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: like continue to go on and on. But like another 179 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: thing that I've noticed is that for me, you know, 180 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: I spent covid uh, you know, flying around the country 181 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: like hanging out with some of the worst people. But 182 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, we were hanging out, we were at bars, 183 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: and um, that camaraderie and that that sense of companionship 184 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 1: that a lot of people were missing in one you know, 185 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: we weren't missing. I mean I was deeply missing it 186 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,599 Speaker 1: because I hated everybody around me. But everyone else is 187 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: having like a great time, you know. Um. So I 188 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: think too, like that's been underreported, um a great deal, 189 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: And I don't really know why because to me, it 190 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: seems pretty obvious. You know, if you're going out every 191 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: weekend and you're having a blast and COVID is unreal. 192 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: Of course, you know you're gonna want to like adopt 193 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: whatever you believe to the people that are around you. 194 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: You want to fit in. Yeah, that's something that you 195 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: write so compellingly about, is this idea of the camaraderie 196 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: and the relationship building um in. You know, in my 197 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: day job, a lot of it is thinking and writing 198 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: about conspiracy theories how people get wrapped up in them, 199 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: and a big part of it that we don't really 200 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: talk about is the relationships that you know. I know 201 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 1: I have friends from high school who are deep into 202 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: Q and on, and a big thing about it is that, 203 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: like they are in their day to day lives, maybe 204 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: they're not being supported, maybe they're not being told that 205 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: they're smart, that they're smart. Maybe they they don't feel 206 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: very smart on a day to day basis, and now 207 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: someone is telling them, not only are you smart, you're 208 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: seeing something that no one else sees. You're smarter than 209 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: everyone around you. And how seductive that is. And so, 210 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, I think that your work really helps 211 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: us understand that so much of extremism and why people 212 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: get wrapped up in it can really be about the 213 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 1: relationships and the camaraderie. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Um, And 214 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: then you know, I I was raised evangelical, and like 215 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: a lot of being raised evangelical is being told, like 216 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: you know something nobody else knows and you have to 217 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: tell everyone so they understand. And you know, like people 218 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: don't believe the raptor is going to happen, but when 219 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: it happens, you know, you'll be up there in heaven 220 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: and everybody who ever laughed at you will be down here. 221 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: And I see a lot of that, especially within the 222 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: Q and on community. Um, there were be times people 223 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: talk to you and thank you and on I'd be like, 224 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: oh am my eight years old again every back in church? 225 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: Is that what this is? Because it feels like it. 226 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think, um, that sense of of we 227 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: have figured something out that nobody else can, We've cracked 228 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: the code, and you know for having a great time, 229 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: I'll join it is is so important understanding why this happening. Yeah, 230 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: I mean it's I think it's one of those things 231 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: that's maybe difficult to acknowledge because it's a little bit complex. Um. 232 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: You know you mentioned earlier when we first started talking 233 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: that some of the names of the far right extremists 234 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: that you were embedded with during this time in your life. Uh, 235 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: we wouldn't know their names. And I guess one of 236 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: my questions is, are there ways that you see these 237 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: fringe movements and fringe leaders finding their way into more 238 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: traditional mainstream right wing politics. They're already legislation and they 239 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: work at foreign embassies, so I think they're there. M 240 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: hm damn, Like, like, what can you really say to that. 241 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break at our back. So, you know, 242 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: when you were doing this work, when you were in 243 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: bed with these people, did you ever have a time 244 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: where someone said something to you and you almost slipped 245 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: and you almost like what, like, what was it like 246 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: to be embedded with these people? You know, you've got 247 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: far right fringe people blowing up your phone, texting you 248 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: for a date, stuff like that, Like what was that like? 249 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: And did you ever have a moment where you almost 250 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: slipt somebody said something to you that was so out 251 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: of pocket that you almost were like, I'm gonna let 252 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: this whole ruise fall by the wayside. Yeah, but it's 253 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: like so stupid. It's um I dealt with so much 254 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: for so long and I I I. My first undercover 255 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: thing was in November, and then in August I flew 256 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: to Portland, Oregon to go on a date with a 257 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: former member of Patriot Front who again it's helping right legislation, 258 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: and UM, he was like, there's gonna be a fight. 259 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: Feel him and Tifa are going to fight the Proud 260 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: Boys and you will have a picnic and we'll watch it. 261 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: And I was like, um, is this like the Battle 262 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: of bulve Run And he was like, that's the spirit. 263 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: So I flew out and the whole thing was a 264 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 1: bus because the Proud Boys minute up going into a 265 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: Camar parking lot and then tear gassing themselves, so we 266 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: couldn't have our picnic, but we did spend eight and 267 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: a half hours in his minivan talking and UM. We 268 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: were also like walking around in Portland and we were 269 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: walking by, um some tents, and he started talking about 270 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: homeless people and I was like, oh my god, this 271 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: is like it's so humiliating and embarrassing, and I just 272 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: people can hear you talk, and I wish that nobody 273 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: could hear you talk. UM, and he was like, you know, 274 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: the homeless, they could really be good for us because 275 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: When I was at January six, I noticed all of 276 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: the homeless people had American fly other tents and I 277 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: was just like, you fucking idiot, we put those there? 278 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: I like, I couldn't believe that this man actually thought 279 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: people who don't have homes went out and bought Trump 280 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: flags in American flags and put them up on their tents. 281 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: And I I it took me like a minute to 282 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: recover from it, because it's just like, how, how do you, like, 283 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: what what about Trump's policies made you believe that, like 284 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: people who don't have homes, Like that's a guy. And 285 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, they'll fight because they believe in 286 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: the cause. I'm like, I don't think that's true. And 287 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: my response was so aggressive and because I'm like from here, 288 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: you know, like I'm not like the docile like trad wife, 289 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: like nobody nobody is falling for that trick um. And 290 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: I was just like, no, that's so stupid, literally, demist 291 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: I've ever heard, like, no, this is not we we 292 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: put those tents. We put those flags there, and he's 293 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: like are you sure, and like I lived there, like yes, 294 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure, um, and like that doesn't get broke me. 295 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: But It's it's weird how you're able to like compartmentalize 296 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: things for so long and then something so stupid. I 297 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: mean that's like like I wouldn't be very clear, Like 298 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: I like the same guy. The first night I met him, 299 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: he asked me at a Turning Point USA event, which 300 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: is supposed to be a mainstream conservative event, he asked me, 301 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: what what would you, you know, do if you were 302 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: rule of America? And I didn't want to radicalize anybody, 303 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: so I always aired on the side of like kind 304 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: of dumbing it down, like I don't know, I'm just 305 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: a blondediot, so cool, Like what would you do? And 306 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: he goes, I'm thinking like a friendly or Nazi Germany? 307 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: So that did not break me. What broke me was 308 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: this like idea that you really thought these people I 309 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: bought these Trump flags and like decorated there, like the 310 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: are just so stupid and so um you know. It's 311 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: it's weird the things that like just dig into your 312 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: brain when you're doing it, because you're you're able to 313 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: like or I I mean obviously not everybody, but like 314 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: I was able to just push so much aside, and 315 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: then that just like so know that that's really the 316 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: only time. Another time a guy told me conservatives won't 317 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: have phones anymore. They're going to take away our phones, 318 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: T Mobile, A T and t our Rise and it's coming. 319 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, do you want to tell me more? 320 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: And you pointed at my phone, and so I, um, 321 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: I recorded everything. I had the second iPhone, my old iPhone, 322 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: and I had a wireless micup in my bra and 323 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: the receiver was the iPhone. And you pointed it at 324 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: my phone and said, your phone could be recording right now. 325 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 1: And I was like, that's a little less you know, serious, 326 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: But I did almost be myself. It was very oh 327 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: my god, You're like, oh, well, that one was a freebie, 328 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: so crazy my phone? Oh my god? Did you have 329 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: moments like that? Like I can only imagine This work 330 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: was legitimately very scary at times. Yeah, I mean it 331 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: probably should have been more scary. I feel like I 332 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: should have been more worried. You know. I was docks. 333 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: I was docs in four Tan and I'm I was 334 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: like doing like cuban On stuff and I was doing, um, 335 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: like fascist stuff and so like you know, like like 336 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: literal Nazis right, and the cuban On people figured me 337 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: out um from four chan and when all around the 338 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: telegram and I was like, okay, but like, I'm supposed 339 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: to go to this event in Florida and we're having 340 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: a hotel room party with three Hungarian fascists and six 341 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: American Nazis. I could probably still go. My friends are like, no, 342 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: you really, please don't go, Please don't go, and I'm like, 343 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: but I think I can go. So you know, I 344 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: did not have the uh wherewithal. I don't think to 345 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: uh to judge because I was gonna go. I was 346 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: gonna do it, um, so you know, I think, yeah, 347 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: it's a good normal person would have been like, I'm 348 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: flying to Portland's I'm going to go on this weird 349 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: picnic day with his Nazi. I'm getting in his car 350 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: now we're driving twenty miles away. I should be worried. 351 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, this is great. What are 352 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: we doing? Where does this like, like, where does this 353 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: come from? That attitude you just described if like not 354 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: being a afraid, and probably maybe most people I would 355 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: be afraid. Most people will be afraid, But where do 356 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: you think that comes from? Any that you didn't have 357 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: that fear? I mean, it's all I've ever known. You know, 358 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: my dad, Um, my dad's pastor. He believes racist people 359 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: from the dead. I went to a q and On 360 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: event at my dad's pastor's church. Um, so it just, 361 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's like comfortable. It's it's not it's not 362 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: it's scary or foreign or like a concept that nobody 363 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: you know that I don't understand. To me, it just is. 364 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: And that's why it was so easy for me, because 365 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: I know the language and I know the culture. Um, 366 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: you know, I broke my arm halfway through. It sucked. 367 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 1: I had like tell my surgeon. I was like, She's like, 368 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: we keep doing for surgery on Monday. And I was like, okay, 369 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: so actually, um, are you familiar with the concept that 370 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton is a pedophile and these children and only 371 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: Donald Trump and stuff? And she was like, what are 372 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: you talking about? And I was like, well, I have 373 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: to go to a quan On events, so we can't 374 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: do surgery. So I delayed surgery for like two weeks 375 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: to go to this qun out event. People were praying 376 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: and tongues on my arm and like most people, I 377 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: feel like could not handle that. But to be I'm 378 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: just like, yeah, it's just literally it's like being back 379 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: in in fifth grade. This is normal, right, um? And 380 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: so I think I think my upbringing really hoped make 381 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: it not an issue for me. So I know when 382 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 1: you were embedded, um with these these far right extremists, 383 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: I was seeing reporting from I think Mother Jones based 384 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: on your sourcing, and you know, I really want to 385 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: underscore that it is so difficult for traditional journalists to 386 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: really get a firsthand account of what's happening in a 387 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: lot of these spaces. And you know, I think was 388 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: it a Trump donor who was screaming white power? I 389 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: saw a video? Was that that was your video? So 390 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 1: I guess my question is when you were doing this project, 391 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: did you find that people were news outlets were excited 392 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: to work with you or was it were they more 393 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: kind of you know, like, oh this, I don't know 394 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: if we can publish this, like this is not what 395 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: we want to publish. Like what was the what was 396 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: the vibe like around outlets reporting the things that you 397 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: were sourcing from being embedded with these communities. I heard 398 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: um from a lot of editors this is extremely cool, um, 399 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: also highly un ethical. So come back when you're done. 400 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: People did not want to work with me. Individual journalists, 401 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: we're okay with it. I mean, Zach knew, Um, I 402 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: watched that get kicked out of an event with Gorka 403 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: in Tyson's corner. Um. So you know, like I would 404 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: message people who were at events that I was at 405 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,959 Speaker 1: and and you know, and obviously I grew up here, 406 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: so I do have friends who were journalists. UM. But 407 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, by and large, everybody was like, this is 408 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: very neat, but we literally cannot pay you to write 409 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: about it unless you're going to write about your with 410 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: your real name attached. It's like, well guess what. Um, 411 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: the whole time was undercover. I um went by Frank 412 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: on Twitter with a picture of a turtle, so people 413 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: assumed I was a man, which was wonderful. Um. But yeah, 414 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, people didn't. They didn't want to mess with it, 415 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: and I tried to rationalize. I was like, oh, yeah, 416 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: it's unethical because like you can't wear a mask like 417 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: the things I went to you. If you were a 418 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: mask your journalist, you're out. Um. But you know that's 419 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: not really what it was. It's just lying to a 420 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: Nunzi is unethical, which is wild me more after a 421 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: quick break, so if you've ever wondered, I wonder what 422 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: Bridget is up to when she's not making the podcast 423 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: that I have great news for you. We just launched 424 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: our brand new newsletter where I'm gonna be writing about 425 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: things I'm paying attention to online, interesting stories that didn't 426 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: make it to the podcast, and a whole lot more. 427 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: I promise you will never spam you. You can subscribe 428 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: to our newsletter at Tandi dot com slash newsletter and 429 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: it's gonna be like a useful newsletter. I promise you 430 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: can also support the show by checking out our merch 431 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: store at tangoti dot com slash store. Let's get right 432 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: back into it. So I read one of your pieces 433 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: where you talked about how in the beginning you would 434 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: just show up to these events and you didn't, I 435 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: mean like you were. You're a blonde woman, you know, 436 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: you're not asking too many questions. A lot of people 437 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: just assumed that you were one of them. And I 438 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: think that's so interesting that I think that the way 439 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: that you that your work relies on being white and 440 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: also your gender, that I think a lot of these 441 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: people are just like, oh, this like white blonde woman 442 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: is hanging around certainly she's one of us. Certainly she 443 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 1: like she can come to the next event with us. 444 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: Certainly we shouldn't, you know, introduce HERR so and so 445 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: and like move her along the ranks. And I think 446 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: it's interesting how you basically just didn't challenge that. You 447 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 1: let them run with whatever assumption that they were going 448 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: to have, and that's what got you so deep into 449 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: the middle and into the mix with these extremists. Yeah. Yeah. 450 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: Some of my friends who are not white would always 451 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: comment and I'm like, you know, you can do it too, 452 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: but it's like a real commitment to the bit because 453 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: it's gonna be like my granddaughter says, I'm racist, but 454 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: you're here, so let's take a picture. You know. It's 455 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: like it's a good thing I never had to do. Um. 456 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: You know, I was never intending to like have a 457 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: personality undercover. I I just went to see pack and 458 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: I was like, well, it just records of stuff, and 459 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, I was like, like, whoever, like whatever lefty 460 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: like podcast, they can't go And I had sold stuff 461 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: to other podcasts, so I was like when I just recorded. 462 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: And then this guy came up to me and he 463 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: was like, hey, um, did you want to help recruit 464 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: mac Gates to join our organization. And I'm like, what 465 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, And it's just no questions asked, just you're 466 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: physically present, you look like you belong. So yeah, just 467 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: come on, come on be with us. It's fine. I mean, 468 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 1: this is You're almost inspiring me. This is like, like, 469 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: just show up and just assume people are not going 470 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: to ask questions that it might work out. You know. 471 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: It's almost kind of like a like a a confidence thing. 472 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: I think, you know, what do you think about scammers? 473 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: Like you're an adelvis of the world and things like that. 474 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: I think a big part of it is just sort 475 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: of assuming that people are going to be like, oh, 476 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: she looks like she belongs. It's fine. Yeah, I mean 477 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: that's literally. So, like I said, I work in live events, 478 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: um and there is a there's a place that hosts 479 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: events in Columbia, Maryland. And I realized about eight years 480 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: ago I could go to any event I went there 481 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: if I parked an employee parking in war Khakis because 482 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: I had done that for years, you know what I mean. 483 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 1: So I just like you, just like I got it 484 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: belong here, Like what's your question? I don't know. Yeah, 485 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: it's like you know, when you go to an event 486 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: and if you you look for the person with the clipboard, 487 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: because that seems like they're in charge. They've got a clipboard. 488 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: You know, you could just like bring a clipboard anywhere. 489 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: They'll let you win. Um, pretty much. I guess one 490 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: of the other questions I have for you is do 491 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: you do you think that being a woman, like, do 492 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: you think that you would have been able to do 493 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: this in the same way had you been a man. 494 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: Do you think that your identity really helped you? Yeah? Um, 495 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: so obviously, Like when I got when a good docks, 496 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: you could see like the tree of people like a 497 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: fin as they realized. And it was like one guy realized, 498 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: but he wanted to sleep with me, so he like 499 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: didn't tell the guy who also wanted to sleep with me, 500 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: but like he told his other friend, you know what 501 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: I mean, So you could tell. I could tell over 502 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: the course of like six weeks, like who like blocked 503 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: me and like you know, when you know, out of 504 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: their like out of their mind, like trying to like 505 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: hide everything from me. Um. I think it gave me 506 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: a very easy pass and it made people trust me more. 507 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: And I also don't have to prove stuff the way 508 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: I would have had to prove if I was a guy. 509 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: You know, like, um, my personality was always the same. 510 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: I was just like the racist, fascist version of myself, 511 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, like bizarro me. But I was like, it's 512 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: too much to turn off my personality. So everyone I 513 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: like kind of vibed with was you know, from Chicago 514 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: or Detroit or Boston. You know, they weren't. I wasn't 515 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: like hanging out people from Alabama or Kentucky because it's 516 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: just not who I am, Like, you know, that wouldn't 517 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: have not gonna again, not gonna be a chrad wife. Um, 518 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: And they like it made them, you know, just kind 519 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: of kind of let things go a little bit more. 520 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: And I would always pretend to not know what stuff was. 521 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: And like if I was a guy, that might not 522 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: have made as much sense. But I was a woman, 523 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: and we are naturally stupider, So yes, it was it 524 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: was you know, like much easier to do that. And 525 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: I I think too, if I had been a man, 526 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: there would have been maybe a little bit more vetting 527 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: of me. I literally used my real name, like I 528 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: used a fake lass name, but not by much. And 529 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: I told them like I was Amanda Lily, my name 530 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: is a mine more um from Annapolis and I'm from 531 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: Alexandria and I used to an Annapolis and there was 532 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: like public record of Ie and nobody ever. They were like, oh, yeah, 533 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,239 Speaker 1: I know. I think she's she's great, everything great, you know, 534 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: but I might have been drawn from Annapolis. They might 535 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: have looked into me a little bit more, you know 536 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: what I mean, and they just let it all go. 537 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: They don't care. Wow, I love I love you using 538 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: their own biases against them, like weaponizing their biases against them. 539 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: Love it um. So one of my last questions for 540 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: you is, I know that when you went undercover in 541 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: these movements, you you know, were out of work. I 542 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: also worked in life events before the pandemic, and so 543 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: I was also out of work, and you were going 544 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: through the same frustrating, funked up ass process that I 545 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: was going through, which is trying to get unemployment, trying 546 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: to figure out any kind of like services or support 547 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: for myself after I lost my job. And you know, 548 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: I read that you really that that that kind of 549 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: radicalized you much farther left when you realize like, wow, 550 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: the pandemic is hit and all of us are just 551 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: kind of on our own and our government kind of 552 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: abandoned us. And so I guess my question is, and 553 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: I felt the exact same way. My question is, are 554 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: there ways that you see a parallel with that in 555 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: some of the people who were in these extremist movements, 556 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: Because I would have to imagine that those people feel 557 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: the same way that their government has abandoned them, that 558 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: they don't have any real meaningful recourse in terms of 559 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: civic engagement, and that is but obviously that has pushed 560 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: them in the opposite direction. But I'm wondering, do you 561 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: see a parallel there between your experience of being feeling 562 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: abandoned in the pandemic and their experiences as well. You're 563 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: the first person to ever ask me that. Oh, Um, 564 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: Usually people ask me, um, what advice do you have? 565 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: People going under cover and nice they don't do it? 566 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: And a lot of it is that, Um, you know, 567 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: if I was going to become a neo fascist racist, 568 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: like that ship would have already sailed by now, given 569 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: the way that I was like raised, right, um, And 570 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: I if you look at the guy who's like running 571 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: the trucker convoy right now, Brian brasse Um, he was 572 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: he's a trucker, but he was doing stuff for music 573 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: tours like zz Top. I think, so he was in 574 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: the same boat as us. And a lot of what 575 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: he attributes to what he's doing now is his son. 576 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: His son passed away about six months ago. And also 577 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: losing work, and like, I get it right, Like I 578 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: lost my job because I'm mixed income, which means you're 579 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: part W two and part to ninety nine. I got 580 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: a hundred dollars a week for unemployment, which is DC 581 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: is the lowest unemployment of a place in the country. 582 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: So I really understand what Brian is going through. I 583 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: did not decide to lead an insurrectionist group terrorizing residents 584 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: of d C. You're welcome, um, And he did. And 585 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: something that I think also scares me is that a 586 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: lot of the moving on the right right now, especially 587 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: with people under thirty five, is populism. And so I 588 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: see exactly how someone could have been in my exact 589 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: position and also be a white person who was raised 590 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: in some type of Christianity and to be like, yeah, 591 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: this is extremely appealing, you know, um, And I think, yeah, 592 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's like an under underreported 593 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: thing because people feel like, oh, if you've got an employment. 594 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: On the right, people say, oh, if you've got an employment, 595 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: you made more, you know, than you would have made 596 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: working as like I did not. It's not true. I 597 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: lost my home, like it's definitely not true. And on 598 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: the left people are like, well, you know, like we 599 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: helped you, and it's like, did you. I don't feel 600 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: very helped um, but you know, I'm not. I'm not 601 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: a racist asshole, and I don't think you need to 602 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: be like that like mindset, but you have to kind 603 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: of in a way to be open to it. And 604 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: I can see how hearing stuff from the populist you know, 605 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: definitely drags people that way. I want to be very clear. 606 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: At the upper echelon is not like this. Other than Bryan. 607 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: I think he's actually like an anomaly within this. I 608 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: think most of the people who are leading things are 609 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, kind of set for life and if they 610 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: want to have two point five kids and might pick 611 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: a house and a wife that stays a home, they 612 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: can have that. Um. But I do think a lot 613 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: of the rank and FIO people are people who were 614 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: in a position like may are you and you know, 615 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: just different priorities, whether your priorities yourself or whether it's 616 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,479 Speaker 1: the greater good for people in general. That's really it's 617 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: it's helpful. It sounds very scary, but also kind of 618 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: hopeful in a kind of way, Like I guess, I 619 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: guess it kind of gives me hope that people can 620 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: be reached, some people can be I don't know, is 621 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: that how you feel. I think that if I truly 622 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: believe with all of my heart that this country we're 623 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: like neo fascist racists, I wouldn't bother having this conversation. 624 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: I'd already be in London, like by um, you know, 625 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of people. It's something 626 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: it's really hard to wrestle with, right because you have 627 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: to be like I see why you went a little racist, 628 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: and I see why you're a little anti Semitic, but 629 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: like we're willing to still like work with you, like 630 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: you should not work with the fascist or like a 631 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: literal Nazi, but like the general population, and it's like 632 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: it sucks. It sucks when you can't like I couldn't, 633 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: I couldn't buy food, Like my clients were like from 634 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: Australia were like sending me money because you're like, I 635 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: cannot believe all America is like doing you guys right, Like, um, 636 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: it sucks. It stuck to lose my home. It's hard 637 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: to sleep on couches and to like stay with my mom. 638 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: You know, Like I'm thirty three years old. I was awful, 639 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: and I can see how, you know, if whatever, Like 640 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: I see how you get there. And if we're willing 641 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: to talk to those people and be like, actually, the 642 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: people who are obstructing unemployment. You know, my dad like 643 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: tried to tell me something about how great Republicans were, 644 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: and I was like, actually, Dad, Bernie Sanders is why 645 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: I am not like literally have not killed myself, you know, 646 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: like he's why I'm getting this extra six d dollars 647 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: a week, Like what are you talking about? You know? 648 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: And if people if we can reach people and make 649 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: them realize that, you know, I think there is hope 650 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: to like pull people to the to the left. I 651 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: think a lot of people just operate within their own 652 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: self interest and and I think, you know, we look 653 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: at them and say, oh, you're you're voting against your 654 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: self interest, but in their minds, they're not. And if 655 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: we can show them reality, um, and if you have. 656 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: I just always feel like if you don't believe that, like, 657 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: what's the point because it's half the country? Why a bother? Yeah? 658 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 1: I think that you put that so so nicely. Um, 659 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: you mentioned London earlier. I have to final questions. Where 660 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: can folks follow you? And what's next for you? Do 661 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 1: you have any any updates or news that you can share? 662 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: Maybe a question mark so you can follow me on 663 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: Twitter's where I'm most annoying. So Twitter, that's not true. 664 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: You're one of my favorite Twitter follows. Thank you, um 665 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: so Twitter, TikTok or Instagram at no turtle soup seventeen um. 666 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: And then next for me is that I am hoping 667 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: someone lets me write a book and if they do that, 668 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to London to write it because I can't 669 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: write it here. I'll just drink too much and hang 670 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: out with my friends too much. I'll never get done, 671 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: so I gotta go far away. I know like eight 672 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: people in London. That's way foreer people than I know here. 673 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: I think it's a good, good, bad, beautiful Amanda Moore, Well, 674 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: thank you so much for bringing so much of yourself 675 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: to this conversation. If you want to tune into more 676 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: conversations like this. Check out my podcast, There Are No 677 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet on iHeart Radio. New episodes stop 678 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: every Tuesday. I am Richard Tod. This has been amazing. 679 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for hanging with me for our first podcast, 680 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: saving We did it. We did it together. There we Go. 681 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech. I 682 00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: just want to say hi. You can be just a 683 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: hello at tang godi dot com. You can also find 684 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: transcripts for today's episode at tang godi dot com. There 685 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, 686 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,240 Speaker 1: Bridget Tod. It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss 687 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 1: creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Terry Harrison is 688 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. 689 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Bridget DoD. If you want to help 690 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For 691 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I Heart Radio, check out the iHeart 692 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.