Speaker 1: From UFOs to ghosts and government cover ups. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to. Now, let's
Speaker 1: start with the story. It was a dark and stormy night.
Speaker 1: As Matt Frederick walked down to the parking deck. He
Speaker 1: heard a noise behind it. Oh, it steps or just
Speaker 1: the wind. It's just He continued walking, and the footsteps
Speaker 1: or the wind again. He turned this wall figure round
Speaker 1: in the corner, a familiar figure perhaps. Matt ran to
Speaker 1: the side of the corner, poked his head around to
Speaker 1: find nothing there. Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. My
Speaker 1: name is Matt, and uh, what was your name again?
Speaker 1: I am Ben Okay, good, good, totally Ben Boland, not
Speaker 1: possessed by any unearthly spirit of which I am aware, one,
Speaker 1: human ish and really excited to talk about today's topic,
Speaker 1: which I think. I think we'll be covering more specific
Speaker 1: cases of this in the future, but today we're just
Speaker 1: going to talk about ghosts. What is a ghost? Where
Speaker 1: can you find one? Why do so many people believe
Speaker 1: in them? Has there ever been any accepted proof or
Speaker 1: is there any way that we could explain what is perceived?
Speaker 1: As a ghostly phenomenon. Now we do know the ghosts
Speaker 1: have been around since before the dawn of recorded history.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, let me stop myself. Belief in ghost has
Speaker 1: been around since that time, right, and since stories have
Speaker 1: been written down, ghosts have been in those stories. Uh.
Speaker 1: Like the epic of Gilgamesh, that was one of the
Speaker 1: first times that or was the first time that a
Speaker 1: ghost was spoken about, or the spirit of the underworld
Speaker 1: or essentially the afterlife, and it was what was it
Speaker 1: the I don't know if I'm saying right, but the
Speaker 1: end could do I think is the name of the
Speaker 1: ghost that Gilgamesh talks to. Um, it's kind of I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's part of the underworld. Fascinating and and
Speaker 1: just the idea that back in the day when stories
Speaker 1: were written down, and I don't even know that year,
Speaker 1: like two thousands something b c e. When it was
Speaker 1: written down, people were thinking about that, thinking about the
Speaker 1: underworld and what happens after you die, right, And we
Speaker 1: know that this is some people will tell you that
Speaker 1: the question of an afterlife is the driving question of
Speaker 1: the human experience. You know, we've we've read a book
Speaker 1: called The Denial of Death. Let me save you some
Speaker 1: time because it's long. The thesis of this book is, uh,
Speaker 1: that everything human beings do which is not survival oriented
Speaker 1: is essentially a distraction from the inescapable truth that everybody
Speaker 1: will die at some point. Uh. It's called fanatology, the
Speaker 1: study of death. Think of like Fanos from The Avengers thinks, uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and when we when we think about this, then we
Speaker 1: immediately encounter one of the more skeptical explanations for ghosts, right,
Speaker 1: And then one of those skeptical explanations would be that
Speaker 1: people want to see ghosts or we want to have
Speaker 1: evidence of an afterlife, that there's an enormous confirmation bias
Speaker 1: so that we do not have to address the idea
Speaker 1: of oblivion. Yeah, it's a very comforting thought that somehow,
Speaker 1: in some way, whatever I am will continue to exist
Speaker 1: after I at least my body ceases to exist once
Speaker 1: we shuffle from the mortal coil. And know that this
Speaker 1: belief is still prevalent in the modern day, wouldn't you say, oh, yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: the best statistic that I have is from two thousand five,
Speaker 1: and it comes from the article uh, how to ghost work?
Speaker 1: That's actually on how stuffworks dot Com and it's it's
Speaker 1: a gallop pole that stated. I think it was thirty
Speaker 1: two of the respondents believe in ghosts, like straight up
Speaker 1: believe in ghosts, and then another nineteen percent said well,
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure, and then I think it was
Speaker 1: a percent said no, no man, alright, so forty percent
Speaker 1: basically Jonathan Strict lent Yeah, yeah, And I think, well,
Speaker 1: is it too early to ask where you would lie
Speaker 1: in there? Should we? Should we cover that later? Um?
Speaker 1: You know what we can. I think it'll be nuanced,
Speaker 1: So let's get to those a little bit later, if
Speaker 1: that's okay, because there there are a couple of things
Speaker 1: we can explore here. Those statistics are fascinating because that
Speaker 1: means that just a little bit less than a third
Speaker 1: of the people pulled said absolutely, yes, ghost are real.
Speaker 1: You know, don't turn off the lights and say bloody
Speaker 1: Mary because you know you just don't know. Don't poke
Speaker 1: a ethereal Hornet's nest. Well, yeah, it's oh man. I
Speaker 1: can definitely say I've been there in my life where
Speaker 1: I've really truly believed in ghosts when I was a
Speaker 1: bit younger. I'm not going to talk about this right now.
Speaker 1: It's just trying to identify with someone who would who
Speaker 1: would say, yes, I believe in ghosts, and I wonder
Speaker 1: if it has anything to do with belief in spiritual
Speaker 1: afterlife like religious belief. Interesting, So what's the correlation? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would like I'd like to see those numbers, and
Speaker 1: I I didn't. I couldn't find a great poll that
Speaker 1: was comparing the two. Yeah, it's very tough to find
Speaker 1: an accurate way of measuring this stuff because you know,
Speaker 1: of course, somebody's spirituality, whether or not it's tied into
Speaker 1: their beliefs in ghost or paranormal phenomenon, that belief in
Speaker 1: that spiritual belief will always be a very personal thing.
Speaker 1: So it's tough to get an objective measurement of someone's
Speaker 1: subjective feelings. Even or even our ghost pole is just
Speaker 1: ranking the people who openly identified as yes, believing in
Speaker 1: ghosts or not, and we don't really know their motivations.
Speaker 1: We'd like to think their motivation was telling the truth.
Speaker 1: But I was thinking about this, Matt. It's completely possible
Speaker 1: that nine of the people said I don't know, just
Speaker 1: in case, and then it's also possible that the people
Speaker 1: who said there were no ghosts were you know, terrified
Speaker 1: that if they admit it, somebody's gonna look at this
Speaker 1: pole and they're gonna know. I believe in ghosts, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: or something like that. And we we covered the afterlife
Speaker 1: and a couple of other ghostly topics in our video
Speaker 1: series a while back, right, Yeah, we did. We we
Speaker 1: talked about ghosts in the Law I think was one
Speaker 1: of them, and what was the other one? Ghosts We
Speaker 1: talked about post in law. We talked about whether or
Speaker 1: not there was an afterlife, and various people believe in
Speaker 1: life after death, yes, and what happens to the brain
Speaker 1: at the moment of death. And well, let's let's go
Speaker 1: a little wide wide here at the end. Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: just talk about what exactly what do you call like
Speaker 1: what happened? So? And then I say, let's talk about
Speaker 1: what happens for me to say if I experienced something.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I think I saw a ghost. Okay, so
Speaker 1: this is really high level stuff, so bear with me here.
Speaker 1: But but it's anything from shadows to cold to flickering lights,
Speaker 1: shapes and pictures like the orbs that you've heard about.
Speaker 1: I'm sure, um, let's see the there's even sleep paralysis
Speaker 1: or something called hypogogic trance, which is really interesting to me. Um.
Speaker 1: These are all the different ways you would experience a ghost,
Speaker 1: and several of them are easily explainable. But when you
Speaker 1: get down to it, Uh, a couple of these things
Speaker 1: are happening in your brain. Well, it's all happening in
Speaker 1: your brain, right, But a lot of it just comes
Speaker 1: down to your perception and the way your brain takes
Speaker 1: in stimuli. Right. Yeah. And another one we should mention
Speaker 1: before people start writing the emails is e v P
Speaker 1: or the voice phenomenon. Uh. And I think that's a
Speaker 1: great point, man, when we talk about the sensory information,
Speaker 1: how our brains interpret that. Uh. Because I have a
Speaker 1: proposition for the ghost stuff. Um. We we have a
Speaker 1: couple of options here, and I'm going to make I'm
Speaker 1: going to make three options, and I want to see
Speaker 1: if you think if these can cover our basis on
Speaker 1: the possibility of ghosts. Are you ready? All? Right? Number
Speaker 1: one and the least exciting, it's all b s. There
Speaker 1: is no ghostly afterlife, or if there is an afterlife,
Speaker 1: there's no way that people are returning or leaving residue behind.
Speaker 1: And everything from Gilgamesh to now is uh wishful thinking
Speaker 1: or confirmation bias. That's one uh, and that would be
Speaker 1: the most skeptical. Second, there's the other idea, the other
Speaker 1: side of the spectrum. Ghost are real. Ghosts are real
Speaker 1: there with us now because there is some sort of
Speaker 1: sensory barrier between the living and the dead, uh, their
Speaker 1: their perception problems or something. Um. But then in that idea,
Speaker 1: ghosts would most definitely be real and we simply don't
Speaker 1: have the means for most people to encounter them. Third option.
Speaker 1: The third option is a little bit science fiction e E E. Ready.
Speaker 1: It's the idea that ghosts or what we perceive to
Speaker 1: be ghost may actually be symptomatic of another scientific phenomenon
Speaker 1: that we have yet to understand. And this would mean,
Speaker 1: for example, that maybe electro magnetic abnormalities in an environment
Speaker 1: trigger sensations, you know, so they trigger that sensation of
Speaker 1: maybe it's like nausea, or your your skin is tingling,
Speaker 1: you feel like someone just stepped over your grave in
Speaker 1: the future. Uh. Now, clearly, out of those three, um,
Speaker 1: my money would be on number three because we do
Speaker 1: have proof that what has been perceived as a paranormal
Speaker 1: phenomenon before has been later found to be um some
Speaker 1: sort of clear some sort of clearly explicable scientific phenomenon.
Speaker 1: Now I don't think that that makes this idea any
Speaker 1: less ghostly or any any less important. That's interesting. Then
Speaker 1: I wonder if there's another, like a fourth one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: some kind of temporal distortion or uh time continuing problem
Speaker 1: that causes it to occur, which may fall into the
Speaker 1: third category, I suppose. But yeah, that's great, And that
Speaker 1: third one is really broad. They're all broad categories because
Speaker 1: essentially you've got number one, no such thing, Number two, yes,
Speaker 1: straight out of a horror movie, coming like through your
Speaker 1: eyes on the anniversary of their strangling or something. And
Speaker 1: the third one we've got everything that could be you know,
Speaker 1: science we don't understand. So these are broad categories. And
Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned the temporal distortion, because since
Speaker 1: we don't have any any devices that have successfully defined
Speaker 1: or observed a non corporeal entity, which is really what
Speaker 1: we're talking about, then we have to we have to
Speaker 1: relegate ourselves at this point to a few philosophical things
Speaker 1: that that are very important. And one of one of
Speaker 1: these things I think is hugely important often gets ignored
Speaker 1: when we talk about the possibility of ghosts. When I
Speaker 1: said we, I mean, you know, society at large. One
Speaker 1: thing we we ignore consistently is that the nature of
Speaker 1: consciousness is still unexplained thousands of years. You know, we've
Speaker 1: had the smartest people in human history trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what makes something aware or self aware, you know,
Speaker 1: and we've we've covered this. But one one thing that's
Speaker 1: inherent to that idea, that inexplicable idea, is that the
Speaker 1: more we try to define and explore and sort of
Speaker 1: demarcate the boundaries of consciousness, uh, the more difficult the
Speaker 1: problem becomes. We're you know, I think we said in
Speaker 1: an earlier podcast, you know, I talked about how we're
Speaker 1: still kind of in the dark ages, like future historians
Speaker 1: are gonna look back and laugh at maybe laugh at
Speaker 1: us not being able to find the souls of the
Speaker 1: dead for so long. But the idea, the the idea
Speaker 1: of for instance, uh, quantum entanglement, right become became sort
Speaker 1: of pop si and it was like popular science fiction.
Speaker 1: So people would throw it around in a very BuzzFeed
Speaker 1: way at deja vu because I have quantum entanglements somehow
Speaker 1: or um, you know, they would they would sort of
Speaker 1: misuse or gloss over the idea, But it still is
Speaker 1: possible that there are there There are things that we
Speaker 1: have yet to adequately describe about consciousness, about the nature
Speaker 1: of time and space itself. So is it possible then
Speaker 1: if if we were to go back and just make
Speaker 1: this purely a thought exercise, would we would we say
Speaker 1: that when a person dies, a corpse is left behind. Right,
Speaker 1: that's a physical residue of their existence. Right, So when
Speaker 1: their brain stops firing electricity and the whole crazy train
Speaker 1: network that is the human mind finally stops. Um, is
Speaker 1: there a non physical residue left behind? I think it's
Speaker 1: a very interesting question, and I hate to sound like
Speaker 1: I'm himming or haying, but it's such an interesting question
Speaker 1: that it stops me from saying that something like a
Speaker 1: ghost doesn't exist. You know. Yeah, it's a scary thought
Speaker 1: that there's nothing afterwards, and it's kind of the I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's a weird thing because it becomes
Speaker 1: the crux of your belief and everything else that one belief. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all your eggs in one basket. Huh. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's hard for me. So all right, Well, I guess
Speaker 1: we're here. Then so we're at this point, so you're
Speaker 1: in the I don't know category officially if you had to,
Speaker 1: if you had to respond to that pool, I I
Speaker 1: you know, if I had too, if I had to
Speaker 1: respond to the poll, what I would say, Man, you
Speaker 1: don't get to say anything. You get to choose one. Huh. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: who am I in that thirty, that nineteen or the other.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna have to go with the And
Speaker 1: I hate to. I hate to do this, but there's
Speaker 1: just not enough evidence. There's there's not enough stuff that
Speaker 1: we can point to and replicate that proves the existence
Speaker 1: of an afterlife. Yeah, and I I have some stories
Speaker 1: about it, and I know you do too, So I'll
Speaker 1: have to ask you, what do you think? Matt in
Speaker 1: two thousand two, and prior I would have checked yes, uh.
Speaker 1: From two thousand to until about two thousand six, I
Speaker 1: would have said no um. And then from now from
Speaker 1: two thousand six onward, I would say I don't know.
Speaker 1: So your your opinion of this matter is sort of evolved.
Speaker 1: It's uh, it's linked fourth the men really to myself? Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: what happened? What happened? It was again and it's strange.
Speaker 1: And I was only speaking earlier about the correlation between
Speaker 1: spiritual belief and belief in something like a ghost or
Speaker 1: an afterlife, because it's kind of how it went with me.
Speaker 1: UM believed hardcore and the afterlife when I was a
Speaker 1: kid growing up. Then I completely threw it in the
Speaker 1: trash and decided I need to learn everything, and I
Speaker 1: don't believe in any of this. And then I kind
Speaker 1: of got to a middle ground where once you start
Speaker 1: learning enough, you realize that there's so many complexities that
Speaker 1: who the heck am I to truly believe in something
Speaker 1: as hardcore as there's something as absolute as no, there's
Speaker 1: no such thing as this. Yeah, it's absolutes are often
Speaker 1: tricky things for someone to juggle, right, because we very
Speaker 1: very rarely live in absolutes in real life. Um, one
Speaker 1: of the only absolutes, of course, being death. Right. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop hitting that one so hard. Uh So,
Speaker 1: let's let's take it in a different direction here. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you some of the same things. It's very interesting
Speaker 1: to me to know that your spiritual evolution, if you will,
Speaker 1: or philosophical evolution, was so inextricably tied to this perception
Speaker 1: or belief or in ghosts or not in ghosts. Uh.
Speaker 1: When I was younger, I was a younger tyke. I
Speaker 1: actually was an amateur ghost hunter. And you know these stories, right,
Speaker 1: So I'm just right, you wouldn't expect it, maybe you would. Uh.
Speaker 1: So I had all of the tools and my infrared sensors,
Speaker 1: my E M F detectors, set up cameras and voice
Speaker 1: recorders and things like that, went to strange places, um,
Speaker 1: you know, allegedly haunted schools, abandoned hospitals, ridges with a
Speaker 1: history of murder, the whole nine. And while I had
Speaker 1: some great times, I never personally stumbled on a ghost.
Speaker 1: Now it would be, of course, cartoonishly arrogant to say,
Speaker 1: because I didn't find something a handful of times, it's
Speaker 1: not true, that's weird. By that logic. Rhinoceroses are also
Speaker 1: b s, right. But what what I did find was that, um,
Speaker 1: some of the people I was working with wanted it
Speaker 1: to be real, so much so that they would willfully
Speaker 1: mistake something for something that it wasn't. But where where
Speaker 1: my family comes from, there is a widespread traditional belief
Speaker 1: in ghosts that actually clashed with Christianity. For a time,
Speaker 1: and well, you know, the idea, the idea and a
Speaker 1: lot of Christian cannon is that when a soul dies,
Speaker 1: it is judged and it goes somewhere else, right, like
Speaker 1: the ghost of the departed rarely hang out to nudge
Speaker 1: your wigia board. But um, I guess it depends on
Speaker 1: which Protestant version you ascribe yourself to. Sure, the Catholic
Speaker 1: Church is always interested me in that regard the idea
Speaker 1: of purgatory. Anyway, well we can talk about that way.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, Now you and I are dating ourselves
Speaker 1: because the idea of limbo or purgatory was slowly phased out.
Speaker 1: It's interesting we should talk about that in future episode
Speaker 1: two one. One thing that always fascinated me was that
Speaker 1: some of the people I know who do believe in ghosts,
Speaker 1: or who did at one time uh drew a sharp
Speaker 1: line between what they would say, we're ghosts uh and
Speaker 1: demons or spirits and and the idea here for anyone
Speaker 1: un familiar, is that a ghost is a human soul, right,
Speaker 1: but a demon or a spirit is from somewhere else.
Speaker 1: That idea is fascinating to me as well. I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you the there there were a handful of experiences,
Speaker 1: none of which, oddly enough, for during my ghost hunting phase, uh,
Speaker 1: that I have yet to explain or understand. Um. One
Speaker 1: of them that sticks out in my mind was that
Speaker 1: I went to the Mark Twain house in Massachusetts. So
Speaker 1: at one point in in this tour of this house,
Speaker 1: I was getting hit with waves of deja vu, which
Speaker 1: was a little bit strange for me at the time.
Speaker 1: And then I started to see these bright kind of
Speaker 1: yellowish orbs moving around the room and to on the
Speaker 1: ceiling and stuff. I still haven't explained. I don't think
Speaker 1: it was a ghost necessarily. I don't know what happened.
Speaker 1: Maybe I had some bad lobster rolls or something. But
Speaker 1: have you considered reincarnation? Have I considered reincarnations? Perhaps you're
Speaker 1: remembering your past self. Ah, that's a that's a very
Speaker 1: interesting idea, because another another angle to the ghost thing,
Speaker 1: right is, um the idea that you are somehow encountering
Speaker 1: a piece of you from somewhere else, which I think
Speaker 1: is fantastic fodder for fiction. I didn't mean to interrupt. No, No,
Speaker 1: that's it. That's the story. I'm glad you you didn't interrupt.
Speaker 1: You brought it to a great book is about Peter
Speaker 1: Out that's crazy, man. Did you have any experiences that
Speaker 1: you could not explain? I haven't had anything like that.
Speaker 1: I've been searching for an experience like that in my
Speaker 1: entire life. And I will put myself in positions where
Speaker 1: I think something might happen and nothing yet. So we'll see.
Speaker 1: And another thing that we should mention at this point
Speaker 1: is that we would love to hear your ghost stories.
Speaker 1: We want to know about the local legends of your area.
Speaker 1: We also want to know about your personal experiences right
Speaker 1: to us. Tell us a ghost story and it just
Speaker 1: might make it on the air. Yeah, and tell us
Speaker 1: where you would fall on that pole um. Definitely your stories.
Speaker 1: And if you're if you want to check out this
Speaker 1: website that we stumbled upon while we were don't do
Speaker 1: our research for this, uh it is. It's really great.
Speaker 1: You can look at pictures and you basically get to vote.
Speaker 1: It's all about voting today, but you get to vote
Speaker 1: on whether or not you think the picture is real, faked,
Speaker 1: or you're just you're not sure. It's called Science of
Speaker 1: Ghosts dot WordPress dot com and it's just pictures where
Speaker 1: you can basically look at the newest ghost pictures. Some
Speaker 1: of them are obviously fake. It's just worn here right
Speaker 1: now now for everybody who hasn't already noticed this. Uh,
Speaker 1: that is our go to guy for figuring out if
Speaker 1: a photo is faked. Often because you have you have
Speaker 1: the professional ability to check out the photo itself and
Speaker 1: look at it with a much more educated eye than
Speaker 1: the average guy. It is weird that I can say, yes,
Speaker 1: I can professionally check out your photos. Uh. The worst thing.
Speaker 1: The bad thing about this is that the technology and
Speaker 1: software is getting so powerful that it's becoming difficult to tell.
Speaker 1: So you're saying it's easier to make a fake photograph
Speaker 1: that looks more genuine it is. So it's this weird thing.
Speaker 1: If you're trying to discern whether or not something is real,
Speaker 1: perhaps a UFO photograph or video or a ghost there's
Speaker 1: there's so many things you have to bring into it,
Speaker 1: not just what the image looks like and some of
Speaker 1: the standard things like if you're looking at the let's
Speaker 1: say the compression or something like that, it's it's you
Speaker 1: can replicate that now, I can you can replicate it
Speaker 1: so easily. The distortion and a photograph m it's it's
Speaker 1: pretty crazy, man. There's another question I want to ask
Speaker 1: the listeners man, which is, if you believe in ghosts,
Speaker 1: then why do you think there's been no universally accepted
Speaker 1: proof of ghost or contact from the afterlife? And I
Speaker 1: think this is a very good question. It's one that
Speaker 1: we touched on in our video part of our video
Speaker 1: series on ghost What is the idea that there's such
Speaker 1: an anomaly here? Because again, we cannot emphasize this enough.
Speaker 1: For the entirety of human history, people have believed in
Speaker 1: ghost for the entirety of human history, there has been
Speaker 1: no universally accepted Well, that's not true. Since the dawn
Speaker 1: of the scientific age, there's been no universally accepted proof
Speaker 1: of uh an afterlife. I would be very excited to
Speaker 1: learn about this um and I would also I don't
Speaker 1: you know, it's strange to think about it in such
Speaker 1: a high level situation, but if there were some universally
Speaker 1: accepted proof of ghostly activity, barring aliens met it would
Speaker 1: be the most significant innovation in the modern age. Their discovery. Rather,
Speaker 1: it's probably a better word, huh, because it's it's already there.
Speaker 1: If it's there, I don't mean to ask. You have
Speaker 1: so many questions. But I was just thinking about my
Speaker 1: favorite ghost films of all time, because you know, that's
Speaker 1: my other expertise. And man, I was really trying to
Speaker 1: nail down what my favorite one is, and I figured
Speaker 1: out what it is. Don't say ghost, it's Gearmobile, Toro's
Speaker 1: the Devil's Backbone. That's my favorite one. It's like, hands down,
Speaker 1: my favorite ghost story. Oh, that is an amazing one.
Speaker 1: On favorite ghost story, Man, I don't know, Matt, that's
Speaker 1: that's a very good question. My favorite ghost story in
Speaker 1: general or film? I would say film, but in my
Speaker 1: head and that's just a story on film. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna need some time to think that way over.
Speaker 1: How about you listening? What do you think? What's your
Speaker 1: what's your all time favorite? You should let me know
Speaker 1: because I don't know. I wanna watch more ghost movies.
Speaker 1: I realized that I've only seen a handful and we
Speaker 1: may just read your recommendations on the air. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: a matter of fact. If it could well happen, man,
Speaker 1: we could have hundreds of people right in and all
Speaker 1: named the same film, in which case we might have
Speaker 1: to do a show just on that so we're going
Speaker 1: to head out. We hope that you have enjoyed our
Speaker 1: look at some of the high points in the debate
Speaker 1: around the afterlife and the essential dilemma of ghosts. So
Speaker 1: right in, tell us what you think about your favorite
Speaker 1: ghost films or paranormal experiences, and tell us if you
Speaker 1: think ghosts are real or not real and why. You
Speaker 1: can find Matt n Ile on Facebook and Twitter, where
Speaker 1: we are conspiracy Stuff. Something tells me that for this
Speaker 1: episode you may want to send us an email directly.
Speaker 1: Our address is conspiracy at Discovery dot com. For more
Speaker 1: on this topic another unexplained phenomenon, visit test tube dot
Speaker 1: com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch
Speaker 1: on Twitter at the handle at conspiracy Stuff.