1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: From UFOs to ghosts and government cover ups. History is 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to. Now, let's 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: start with the story. It was a dark and stormy night. 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: As Matt Frederick walked down to the parking deck. He 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: heard a noise behind it. Oh, it steps or just 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: the wind. It's just He continued walking, and the footsteps 8 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: or the wind again. He turned this wall figure round 9 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: in the corner, a familiar figure perhaps. Matt ran to 10 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: the side of the corner, poked his head around to 11 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: find nothing there. Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. My 12 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: name is Matt, and uh, what was your name again? 13 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: I am Ben Okay, good, good, totally Ben Boland, not 14 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: possessed by any unearthly spirit of which I am aware, one, 15 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: human ish and really excited to talk about today's topic, 16 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: which I think. I think we'll be covering more specific 17 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: cases of this in the future, but today we're just 18 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: going to talk about ghosts. What is a ghost? Where 19 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: can you find one? Why do so many people believe 20 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: in them? Has there ever been any accepted proof or 21 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: is there any way that we could explain what is perceived? 22 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 1: As a ghostly phenomenon. Now we do know the ghosts 23 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: have been around since before the dawn of recorded history. 24 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: Oh wait, let me stop myself. Belief in ghost has 25 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: been around since that time, right, and since stories have 26 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: been written down, ghosts have been in those stories. Uh. 27 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: Like the epic of Gilgamesh, that was one of the 28 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: first times that or was the first time that a 29 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: ghost was spoken about, or the spirit of the underworld 30 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: or essentially the afterlife, and it was what was it 31 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: the I don't know if I'm saying right, but the 32 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: end could do I think is the name of the 33 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: ghost that Gilgamesh talks to. Um, it's kind of I 34 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: don't know, it's part of the underworld. Fascinating and and 35 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: just the idea that back in the day when stories 36 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: were written down, and I don't even know that year, 37 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: like two thousands something b c e. When it was 38 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: written down, people were thinking about that, thinking about the 39 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: underworld and what happens after you die, right, And we 40 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: know that this is some people will tell you that 41 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: the question of an afterlife is the driving question of 42 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: the human experience. You know, we've we've read a book 43 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: called The Denial of Death. Let me save you some 44 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: time because it's long. The thesis of this book is, uh, 45 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: that everything human beings do which is not survival oriented 46 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: is essentially a distraction from the inescapable truth that everybody 47 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: will die at some point. Uh. It's called fanatology, the 48 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: study of death. Think of like Fanos from The Avengers thinks, uh. Yeah, 49 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: and when we when we think about this, then we 50 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: immediately encounter one of the more skeptical explanations for ghosts, right, 51 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: And then one of those skeptical explanations would be that 52 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: people want to see ghosts or we want to have 53 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: evidence of an afterlife, that there's an enormous confirmation bias 54 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: so that we do not have to address the idea 55 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: of oblivion. Yeah, it's a very comforting thought that somehow, 56 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: in some way, whatever I am will continue to exist 57 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: after I at least my body ceases to exist once 58 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: we shuffle from the mortal coil. And know that this 59 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: belief is still prevalent in the modern day, wouldn't you say, oh, yeah, Well, 60 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: the best statistic that I have is from two thousand five, 61 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: and it comes from the article uh, how to ghost work? 62 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: That's actually on how stuffworks dot Com and it's it's 63 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: a gallop pole that stated. I think it was thirty 64 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: two of the respondents believe in ghosts, like straight up 65 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: believe in ghosts, and then another nineteen percent said well, 66 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure, and then I think it was 67 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: a percent said no, no man, alright, so forty percent 68 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: basically Jonathan Strict lent Yeah, yeah, And I think, well, 69 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: is it too early to ask where you would lie 70 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: in there? Should we? Should we cover that later? Um? 71 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: You know what we can. I think it'll be nuanced, 72 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: So let's get to those a little bit later, if 73 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: that's okay, because there there are a couple of things 74 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: we can explore here. Those statistics are fascinating because that 75 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: means that just a little bit less than a third 76 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: of the people pulled said absolutely, yes, ghost are real. 77 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,679 Speaker 1: You know, don't turn off the lights and say bloody 78 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: Mary because you know you just don't know. Don't poke 79 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: a ethereal Hornet's nest. Well, yeah, it's oh man. I 80 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: can definitely say I've been there in my life where 81 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: I've really truly believed in ghosts when I was a 82 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: bit younger. I'm not going to talk about this right now. 83 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: It's just trying to identify with someone who would who 84 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: would say, yes, I believe in ghosts, and I wonder 85 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: if it has anything to do with belief in spiritual 86 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: afterlife like religious belief. Interesting, So what's the correlation? Yeah, 87 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 1: I would like I'd like to see those numbers, and 88 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: I I didn't. I couldn't find a great poll that 89 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 1: was comparing the two. Yeah, it's very tough to find 90 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: an accurate way of measuring this stuff because you know, 91 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: of course, somebody's spirituality, whether or not it's tied into 92 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: their beliefs in ghost or paranormal phenomenon, that belief in 93 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: that spiritual belief will always be a very personal thing. 94 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: So it's tough to get an objective measurement of someone's 95 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: subjective feelings. Even or even our ghost pole is just 96 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: ranking the people who openly identified as yes, believing in 97 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: ghosts or not, and we don't really know their motivations. 98 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: We'd like to think their motivation was telling the truth. 99 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: But I was thinking about this, Matt. It's completely possible 100 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: that nine of the people said I don't know, just 101 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: in case, and then it's also possible that the people 102 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: who said there were no ghosts were you know, terrified 103 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: that if they admit it, somebody's gonna look at this 104 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: pole and they're gonna know. I believe in ghosts, right, yeah, 105 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: or something like that. And we we covered the afterlife 106 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: and a couple of other ghostly topics in our video 107 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: series a while back, right, Yeah, we did. We we 108 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: talked about ghosts in the Law I think was one 109 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: of them, and what was the other one? Ghosts We 110 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: talked about post in law. We talked about whether or 111 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: not there was an afterlife, and various people believe in 112 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: life after death, yes, and what happens to the brain 113 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: at the moment of death. And well, let's let's go 114 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: a little wide wide here at the end. Yeah, let's 115 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: just talk about what exactly what do you call like 116 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: what happened? So? And then I say, let's talk about 117 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,119 Speaker 1: what happens for me to say if I experienced something. 118 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: Oh wait, I think I saw a ghost. Okay, so 119 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: this is really high level stuff, so bear with me here. 120 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: But but it's anything from shadows to cold to flickering lights, 121 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: shapes and pictures like the orbs that you've heard about. 122 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure, um, let's see the there's even sleep paralysis 123 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: or something called hypogogic trance, which is really interesting to me. Um. 124 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: These are all the different ways you would experience a ghost, 125 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: and several of them are easily explainable. But when you 126 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: get down to it, Uh, a couple of these things 127 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: are happening in your brain. Well, it's all happening in 128 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: your brain, right, But a lot of it just comes 129 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: down to your perception and the way your brain takes 130 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: in stimuli. Right. Yeah. And another one we should mention 131 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: before people start writing the emails is e v P 132 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: or the voice phenomenon. Uh. And I think that's a 133 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: great point, man, when we talk about the sensory information, 134 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: how our brains interpret that. Uh. Because I have a 135 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: proposition for the ghost stuff. Um. We we have a 136 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: couple of options here, and I'm going to make I'm 137 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: going to make three options, and I want to see 138 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: if you think if these can cover our basis on 139 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: the possibility of ghosts. Are you ready? All? Right? Number 140 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: one and the least exciting, it's all b s. There 141 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: is no ghostly afterlife, or if there is an afterlife, 142 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: there's no way that people are returning or leaving residue behind. 143 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: And everything from Gilgamesh to now is uh wishful thinking 144 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: or confirmation bias. That's one uh, and that would be 145 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: the most skeptical. Second, there's the other idea, the other 146 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: side of the spectrum. Ghost are real. Ghosts are real 147 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: there with us now because there is some sort of 148 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: sensory barrier between the living and the dead, uh, their 149 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: their perception problems or something. Um. But then in that idea, 150 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: ghosts would most definitely be real and we simply don't 151 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: have the means for most people to encounter them. Third option. 152 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: The third option is a little bit science fiction e E E. Ready. 153 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: It's the idea that ghosts or what we perceive to 154 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: be ghost may actually be symptomatic of another scientific phenomenon 155 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: that we have yet to understand. And this would mean, 156 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: for example, that maybe electro magnetic abnormalities in an environment 157 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: trigger sensations, you know, so they trigger that sensation of 158 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: maybe it's like nausea, or your your skin is tingling, 159 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: you feel like someone just stepped over your grave in 160 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: the future. Uh. Now, clearly, out of those three, um, 161 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: my money would be on number three because we do 162 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: have proof that what has been perceived as a paranormal 163 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: phenomenon before has been later found to be um some 164 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: sort of clear some sort of clearly explicable scientific phenomenon. 165 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: Now I don't think that that makes this idea any 166 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: less ghostly or any any less important. That's interesting. Then 167 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: I wonder if there's another, like a fourth one. Yeah, 168 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: some kind of temporal distortion or uh time continuing problem 169 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: that causes it to occur, which may fall into the 170 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: third category, I suppose. But yeah, that's great, And that 171 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: third one is really broad. They're all broad categories because 172 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: essentially you've got number one, no such thing, Number two, yes, 173 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: straight out of a horror movie, coming like through your 174 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: eyes on the anniversary of their strangling or something. And 175 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: the third one we've got everything that could be you know, 176 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: science we don't understand. So these are broad categories. And 177 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned the temporal distortion, because since 178 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: we don't have any any devices that have successfully defined 179 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: or observed a non corporeal entity, which is really what 180 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about, then we have to we have to 181 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: relegate ourselves at this point to a few philosophical things 182 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: that that are very important. And one of one of 183 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: these things I think is hugely important often gets ignored 184 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: when we talk about the possibility of ghosts. When I 185 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: said we, I mean, you know, society at large. One 186 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: thing we we ignore consistently is that the nature of 187 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: consciousness is still unexplained thousands of years. You know, we've 188 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: had the smartest people in human history trying to figure 189 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: out what makes something aware or self aware, you know, 190 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: and we've we've covered this. But one one thing that's 191 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: inherent to that idea, that inexplicable idea, is that the 192 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: more we try to define and explore and sort of 193 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: demarcate the boundaries of consciousness, uh, the more difficult the 194 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: problem becomes. We're you know, I think we said in 195 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: an earlier podcast, you know, I talked about how we're 196 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: still kind of in the dark ages, like future historians 197 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: are gonna look back and laugh at maybe laugh at 198 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: us not being able to find the souls of the 199 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: dead for so long. But the idea, the the idea 200 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: of for instance, uh, quantum entanglement, right become became sort 201 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: of pop si and it was like popular science fiction. 202 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: So people would throw it around in a very BuzzFeed 203 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: way at deja vu because I have quantum entanglements somehow 204 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: or um, you know, they would they would sort of 205 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: misuse or gloss over the idea, But it still is 206 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: possible that there are there There are things that we 207 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: have yet to adequately describe about consciousness, about the nature 208 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: of time and space itself. So is it possible then 209 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: if if we were to go back and just make 210 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: this purely a thought exercise, would we would we say 211 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: that when a person dies, a corpse is left behind. Right, 212 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: that's a physical residue of their existence. Right, So when 213 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: their brain stops firing electricity and the whole crazy train 214 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: network that is the human mind finally stops. Um, is 215 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: there a non physical residue left behind? I think it's 216 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: a very interesting question, and I hate to sound like 217 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: I'm himming or haying, but it's such an interesting question 218 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: that it stops me from saying that something like a 219 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: ghost doesn't exist. You know. Yeah, it's a scary thought 220 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: that there's nothing afterwards, and it's kind of the I 221 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's a weird thing because it becomes 222 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: the crux of your belief and everything else that one belief. Yeah, 223 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: all your eggs in one basket. Huh. I don't know. 224 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: It's hard for me. So all right, Well, I guess 225 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: we're here. Then so we're at this point, so you're 226 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: in the I don't know category officially if you had to, 227 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: if you had to respond to that pool, I I 228 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: you know, if I had too, if I had to 229 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: respond to the poll, what I would say, Man, you 230 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,359 Speaker 1: don't get to say anything. You get to choose one. Huh. Yeah, Okay, 231 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: who am I in that thirty, that nineteen or the other. 232 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna have to go with the And 233 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: I hate to. I hate to do this, but there's 234 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: just not enough evidence. There's there's not enough stuff that 235 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: we can point to and replicate that proves the existence 236 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: of an afterlife. Yeah, and I I have some stories 237 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: about it, and I know you do too, So I'll 238 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: have to ask you, what do you think? Matt in 239 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: two thousand two, and prior I would have checked yes, uh. 240 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: From two thousand to until about two thousand six, I 241 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: would have said no um. And then from now from 242 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: two thousand six onward, I would say I don't know. 243 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: So your your opinion of this matter is sort of evolved. 244 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: It's uh, it's linked fourth the men really to myself? Okay, yeah, 245 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: what happened? What happened? It was again and it's strange. 246 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: And I was only speaking earlier about the correlation between 247 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: spiritual belief and belief in something like a ghost or 248 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: an afterlife, because it's kind of how it went with me. 249 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: UM believed hardcore and the afterlife when I was a 250 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: kid growing up. Then I completely threw it in the 251 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: trash and decided I need to learn everything, and I 252 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: don't believe in any of this. And then I kind 253 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: of got to a middle ground where once you start 254 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: learning enough, you realize that there's so many complexities that 255 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: who the heck am I to truly believe in something 256 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: as hardcore as there's something as absolute as no, there's 257 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: no such thing as this. Yeah, it's absolutes are often 258 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: tricky things for someone to juggle, right, because we very 259 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: very rarely live in absolutes in real life. Um, one 260 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: of the only absolutes, of course, being death. Right. Okay, 261 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop hitting that one so hard. Uh So, 262 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: let's let's take it in a different direction here. I'll 263 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: tell you some of the same things. It's very interesting 264 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: to me to know that your spiritual evolution, if you will, 265 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: or philosophical evolution, was so inextricably tied to this perception 266 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: or belief or in ghosts or not in ghosts. Uh. 267 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: When I was younger, I was a younger tyke. I 268 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: actually was an amateur ghost hunter. And you know these stories, right, 269 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: So I'm just right, you wouldn't expect it, maybe you would. Uh. 270 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: So I had all of the tools and my infrared sensors, 271 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: my E M F detectors, set up cameras and voice 272 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: recorders and things like that, went to strange places, um, 273 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: you know, allegedly haunted schools, abandoned hospitals, ridges with a 274 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: history of murder, the whole nine. And while I had 275 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: some great times, I never personally stumbled on a ghost. 276 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: Now it would be, of course, cartoonishly arrogant to say, 277 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: because I didn't find something a handful of times, it's 278 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: not true, that's weird. By that logic. Rhinoceroses are also 279 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: b s, right. But what what I did find was that, um, 280 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: some of the people I was working with wanted it 281 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: to be real, so much so that they would willfully 282 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: mistake something for something that it wasn't. But where where 283 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: my family comes from, there is a widespread traditional belief 284 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: in ghosts that actually clashed with Christianity. For a time, 285 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 1: and well, you know, the idea, the idea and a 286 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: lot of Christian cannon is that when a soul dies, 287 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: it is judged and it goes somewhere else, right, like 288 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: the ghost of the departed rarely hang out to nudge 289 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: your wigia board. But um, I guess it depends on 290 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: which Protestant version you ascribe yourself to. Sure, the Catholic 291 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: Church is always interested me in that regard the idea 292 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: of purgatory. Anyway, well we can talk about that way. 293 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, Now you and I are dating ourselves 294 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: because the idea of limbo or purgatory was slowly phased out. 295 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: It's interesting we should talk about that in future episode 296 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: two one. One thing that always fascinated me was that 297 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: some of the people I know who do believe in ghosts, 298 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: or who did at one time uh drew a sharp 299 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: line between what they would say, we're ghosts uh and 300 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: demons or spirits and and the idea here for anyone 301 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: un familiar, is that a ghost is a human soul, right, 302 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: but a demon or a spirit is from somewhere else. 303 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: That idea is fascinating to me as well. I gotta 304 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: tell you the there there were a handful of experiences, 305 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: none of which, oddly enough, for during my ghost hunting phase, uh, 306 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: that I have yet to explain or understand. Um. One 307 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: of them that sticks out in my mind was that 308 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: I went to the Mark Twain house in Massachusetts. So 309 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: at one point in in this tour of this house, 310 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: I was getting hit with waves of deja vu, which 311 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: was a little bit strange for me at the time. 312 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: And then I started to see these bright kind of 313 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: yellowish orbs moving around the room and to on the 314 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: ceiling and stuff. I still haven't explained. I don't think 315 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: it was a ghost necessarily. I don't know what happened. 316 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: Maybe I had some bad lobster rolls or something. But 317 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: have you considered reincarnation? Have I considered reincarnations? Perhaps you're 318 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: remembering your past self. Ah, that's a that's a very 319 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: interesting idea, because another another angle to the ghost thing, 320 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: right is, um the idea that you are somehow encountering 321 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: a piece of you from somewhere else, which I think 322 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: is fantastic fodder for fiction. I didn't mean to interrupt. No, No, 323 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: that's it. That's the story. I'm glad you you didn't interrupt. 324 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: You brought it to a great book is about Peter 325 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: Out that's crazy, man. Did you have any experiences that 326 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: you could not explain? I haven't had anything like that. 327 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: I've been searching for an experience like that in my 328 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: entire life. And I will put myself in positions where 329 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: I think something might happen and nothing yet. So we'll see. 330 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: And another thing that we should mention at this point 331 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: is that we would love to hear your ghost stories. 332 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: We want to know about the local legends of your area. 333 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: We also want to know about your personal experiences right 334 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: to us. Tell us a ghost story and it just 335 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,479 Speaker 1: might make it on the air. Yeah, and tell us 336 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: where you would fall on that pole um. Definitely your stories. 337 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,239 Speaker 1: And if you're if you want to check out this 338 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: website that we stumbled upon while we were don't do 339 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: our research for this, uh it is. It's really great. 340 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: You can look at pictures and you basically get to vote. 341 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: It's all about voting today, but you get to vote 342 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: on whether or not you think the picture is real, faked, 343 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: or you're just you're not sure. It's called Science of 344 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: Ghosts dot WordPress dot com and it's just pictures where 345 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: you can basically look at the newest ghost pictures. Some 346 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: of them are obviously fake. It's just worn here right 347 00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: now now for everybody who hasn't already noticed this. Uh, 348 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: that is our go to guy for figuring out if 349 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: a photo is faked. Often because you have you have 350 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: the professional ability to check out the photo itself and 351 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: look at it with a much more educated eye than 352 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: the average guy. It is weird that I can say, yes, 353 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: I can professionally check out your photos. Uh. The worst thing. 354 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: The bad thing about this is that the technology and 355 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: software is getting so powerful that it's becoming difficult to tell. 356 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: So you're saying it's easier to make a fake photograph 357 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: that looks more genuine it is. So it's this weird thing. 358 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: If you're trying to discern whether or not something is real, 359 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: perhaps a UFO photograph or video or a ghost there's 360 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: there's so many things you have to bring into it, 361 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: not just what the image looks like and some of 362 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: the standard things like if you're looking at the let's 363 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: say the compression or something like that, it's it's you 364 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: can replicate that now, I can you can replicate it 365 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: so easily. The distortion and a photograph m it's it's 366 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: pretty crazy, man. There's another question I want to ask 367 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: the listeners man, which is, if you believe in ghosts, 368 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: then why do you think there's been no universally accepted 369 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: proof of ghost or contact from the afterlife? And I 370 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: think this is a very good question. It's one that 371 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: we touched on in our video part of our video 372 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: series on ghost What is the idea that there's such 373 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: an anomaly here? Because again, we cannot emphasize this enough. 374 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: For the entirety of human history, people have believed in 375 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: ghost for the entirety of human history, there has been 376 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: no universally accepted Well, that's not true. Since the dawn 377 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: of the scientific age, there's been no universally accepted proof 378 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 1: of uh an afterlife. I would be very excited to 379 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: learn about this um and I would also I don't 380 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's strange to think about it in such 381 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: a high level situation, but if there were some universally 382 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: accepted proof of ghostly activity, barring aliens met it would 383 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: be the most significant innovation in the modern age. Their discovery. Rather, 384 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: it's probably a better word, huh, because it's it's already there. 385 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: If it's there, I don't mean to ask. You have 386 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: so many questions. But I was just thinking about my 387 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: favorite ghost films of all time, because you know, that's 388 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: my other expertise. And man, I was really trying to 389 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: nail down what my favorite one is, and I figured 390 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: out what it is. Don't say ghost, it's Gearmobile, Toro's 391 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: the Devil's Backbone. That's my favorite one. It's like, hands down, 392 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: my favorite ghost story. Oh, that is an amazing one. 393 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: On favorite ghost story, Man, I don't know, Matt, that's 394 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: that's a very good question. My favorite ghost story in 395 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: general or film? I would say film, but in my 396 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: head and that's just a story on film. Yeah, okay, 397 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna need some time to think that way over. 398 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: How about you listening? What do you think? What's your 399 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: what's your all time favorite? You should let me know 400 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: because I don't know. I wanna watch more ghost movies. 401 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: I realized that I've only seen a handful and we 402 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: may just read your recommendations on the air. Uh, it's 403 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: a matter of fact. If it could well happen, man, 404 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: we could have hundreds of people right in and all 405 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: named the same film, in which case we might have 406 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: to do a show just on that so we're going 407 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: to head out. We hope that you have enjoyed our 408 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: look at some of the high points in the debate 409 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: around the afterlife and the essential dilemma of ghosts. So 410 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: right in, tell us what you think about your favorite 411 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: ghost films or paranormal experiences, and tell us if you 412 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: think ghosts are real or not real and why. You 413 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: can find Matt n Ile on Facebook and Twitter, where 414 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: we are conspiracy Stuff. Something tells me that for this 415 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: episode you may want to send us an email directly. 416 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: Our address is conspiracy at Discovery dot com. For more 417 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: on this topic another unexplained phenomenon, visit test tube dot 418 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch 419 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 1: on Twitter at the handle at conspiracy Stuff.