WEBVTT - Diversifying Silicon Valley with Arlan Hamilton 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:25.796 Pushkin Getting Even is produced by Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to 0:00:25.836 --> 0:00:29.316 Pushkin Plus and you can hear Getting Even and other 0:00:29.356 --> 0:00:35.636 Pushkin shows add free and receive exclusive bonus episodes. Sign 0:00:35.756 --> 0:00:39.756 up on the Getting Even show page in Apple Podcasts 0:00:39.956 --> 0:00:48.396 or at pushkin dot fm. Anybody can invest their own 0:00:48.516 --> 0:00:51.476 money and be a part of this revolution and be 0:00:51.516 --> 0:00:53.836 a part of innovation in a part of the future. 0:00:54.396 --> 0:00:58.756 It belongs to every single one of us. That's Arlin Hamilton, 0:00:59.276 --> 0:01:04.356 founder of the Backstage Capital Fund. Breaking into Silicon Valley 0:01:04.436 --> 0:01:08.996 isn't easy, especially for a black woman in the United States, 0:01:09.196 --> 0:01:13.196 and an ordinate share of industry funding goes to white men. 0:01:14.276 --> 0:01:17.716 Hamilton was living in Texas working as a tour manager 0:01:17.916 --> 0:01:22.796 for musicians like Tony Braxton and Kirk Franklin, and then 0:01:23.036 --> 0:01:27.036 she got turned on to venture capital. I was thirty 0:01:27.076 --> 0:01:30.076 thirty one, and I started getting the bug a little bit, 0:01:30.156 --> 0:01:32.596 just seeing it here and there, learning a little bit 0:01:32.596 --> 0:01:35.836 here and there. And I did what I do when 0:01:35.836 --> 0:01:38.796 I get really interested in something, and I just devoured 0:01:38.836 --> 0:01:43.516 information because as broke as I was, you can't take 0:01:43.556 --> 0:01:47.916 away from me that ability to learn. Hamilton was relent bus. 0:01:48.556 --> 0:01:51.676 There were times when she didn't have enough food, and 0:01:51.796 --> 0:01:55.596 at one point she was homeless, but she never wavered. 0:01:56.316 --> 0:02:01.116 I was up against so much and it almost seemed impossible, 0:02:01.156 --> 0:02:03.476 and in fact, many people told me it was impossible, 0:02:03.476 --> 0:02:06.596 and many people laughed me out of rooms. But in 0:02:06.636 --> 0:02:13.036 twenty fifteen, she created Backstage Capital and Extraordinary Achievement and 0:02:13.116 --> 0:02:18.076 began her mission to invest in underrepresented funds and founders. 0:02:18.916 --> 0:02:21.436 I was talking to founders from all over the country 0:02:21.476 --> 0:02:24.996 who were building amazing things. And I don't think that 0:02:25.076 --> 0:02:30.396 the current investors that are out there would meet these founders, 0:02:30.636 --> 0:02:33.196 would even know where to find them. And that's why 0:02:33.316 --> 0:02:35.556 I knew for sure I needed to build this fund. 0:02:39.556 --> 0:02:44.196 I'm Anita Hill. This is Getting Even, my podcast about 0:02:44.236 --> 0:02:48.556 equality and what it takes to get there. On Getting Even, 0:02:48.796 --> 0:02:53.156 I speak with people who are improving, are imperfect world, 0:02:53.756 --> 0:02:59.356 people who took risks and broke the rules. In this episode, 0:03:00.116 --> 0:03:04.436 Arlen Hamilton and I discuss how she achieved immense success 0:03:04.476 --> 0:03:08.436 in Silicon Valley, all the while challenging a system that 0:03:08.516 --> 0:03:15.036 excludes women, people of color, and members of the LGBTQ community. 0:03:16.116 --> 0:03:18.876 There are some real basics that I want to hear about. 0:03:18.956 --> 0:03:22.196 It's sort of teach us a little bit about financing 0:03:22.236 --> 0:03:28.476 and venture capitalism one oh one. What is a venture capitalists? Well, 0:03:28.516 --> 0:03:32.316 a venture capitalist is someone essentially who takes a little 0:03:32.316 --> 0:03:35.596 bit of their money, but mostly other people's money, and 0:03:35.716 --> 0:03:39.036 that can be pension funds, could be high net worth individuals, 0:03:39.156 --> 0:03:42.716 family offices, etc. And they take that money and their 0:03:42.796 --> 0:03:47.836 job is to look for outstanding individual companies that are 0:03:47.876 --> 0:03:53.716 private and at different stages and hopefully turn that portfolio 0:03:53.796 --> 0:03:58.436 of investments into more for their limited partners, who are 0:03:58.516 --> 0:04:01.076 the ones that I just listed. And so their job 0:04:01.196 --> 0:04:04.036 is to hopefully see into the future a little bit 0:04:04.436 --> 0:04:08.756 and to make some really interesting bets. So you have 0:04:08.796 --> 0:04:10.956 to be a risk taker and you also have to 0:04:10.996 --> 0:04:15.756 be patient exactly, and I have an incredibly high tolerance 0:04:15.796 --> 0:04:20.236 for risk. And I also think in decades, not in quarters, 0:04:20.356 --> 0:04:22.916 and so that's part of what has made it possible 0:04:23.356 --> 0:04:27.276 for me to not only work in this industry, but 0:04:27.436 --> 0:04:31.196 to innovate within it. Wow. Well that's our first lesson 0:04:31.316 --> 0:04:34.636 thinking in decades, not in quarters. So you also have 0:04:34.756 --> 0:04:37.716 to learn some lingo. I know that there are certain 0:04:37.836 --> 0:04:41.516 terminologies that are out there that people refer to, like 0:04:41.716 --> 0:04:46.916 angel investing and impact investing. How did you get familiar 0:04:47.396 --> 0:04:52.036 with the language of this kind of enterprise. I read 0:04:52.116 --> 0:04:55.436 a lot. So I was in Parland in Texas, which 0:04:55.476 --> 0:04:58.716 is part of Houston, and I was thirty thirty one, 0:04:58.956 --> 0:05:01.316 and I started getting the bug a little bit, just 0:05:01.636 --> 0:05:03.636 seeing it here and there, learning a little bit here 0:05:03.636 --> 0:05:06.796 and there, and I did what I do when I 0:05:06.836 --> 0:05:10.356 get really interested in something, and I just voured information. 0:05:10.796 --> 0:05:15.436 Because as broke as I was, as much housing insecurity 0:05:15.436 --> 0:05:18.476 as I had and food insecurity as I had, you 0:05:18.676 --> 0:05:22.076 can't take away from me that ability to learn, and 0:05:22.156 --> 0:05:23.916 so it was it was almost kind of a power 0:05:23.996 --> 0:05:26.076 play for me too that I don't think I've ever 0:05:26.116 --> 0:05:28.836 really said. It was also this way of remaining in 0:05:28.916 --> 0:05:32.516 control having this information. So I thankfully had access to 0:05:32.556 --> 0:05:34.996 the internet, so I could read everything, you know, do 0:05:35.036 --> 0:05:37.996 all these searches and really not know what I was 0:05:38.116 --> 0:05:41.236 looking for, but kind of go through the vortex, you know, 0:05:41.236 --> 0:05:43.036 you get on YouTube where you go here or there 0:05:43.036 --> 0:05:46.476 and you just start looking. And then I would go 0:05:46.556 --> 0:05:48.996 to bookstores in the library and I would sit for 0:05:49.116 --> 0:05:52.236 hours and read. So I would just kind of learn 0:05:52.356 --> 0:05:55.236 that way, and I just paid attention to people too. 0:05:55.876 --> 0:05:59.156 So if I learned about a specific investor that was interesting, 0:05:59.196 --> 0:06:01.516 to me or said something, whether I agreed with it 0:06:01.636 --> 0:06:05.756 or not, I would follow that lead, almost like a journalist, 0:06:05.836 --> 0:06:09.476 and I would just continue really pulling at that thread 0:06:10.276 --> 0:06:14.276 and started reaching out to people. There was a lot 0:06:14.316 --> 0:06:16.916 of curiosity. Had you been that way since you were 0:06:16.916 --> 0:06:20.556 a child? Yes, yes, my mother would tell you, oh yes. 0:06:21.636 --> 0:06:24.236 I mean I think most children ask questions, But I 0:06:24.316 --> 0:06:29.236 was asking questions all day long from a very early age, 0:06:29.436 --> 0:06:31.596 and it was mostly what got me in a lot 0:06:31.636 --> 0:06:35.716 of trouble in school. Unfortunately. You know, when a tall 0:06:35.876 --> 0:06:39.156 black girl in the South is asking questions in school 0:06:39.196 --> 0:06:43.916 and disrupting class quote unquote, it's something different sometimes than 0:06:43.956 --> 0:06:48.316 it would be for others. But I would just question, Okay, 0:06:48.476 --> 0:06:50.876 I understand it's in the book. I understand that the 0:06:50.916 --> 0:06:54.876 books was written twenty years ago, but why is it 0:06:55.156 --> 0:06:57.956 necessarily still the case? You know, this is me in 0:06:57.956 --> 0:07:00.516 the fourth grade, you know, looking at why is it 0:07:00.596 --> 0:07:05.156 necessarily the end all be all? Just because it's in 0:07:05.196 --> 0:07:09.716 a book? Somewhere? I challenged and questioned everything. I questioned 0:07:09.756 --> 0:07:13.996 if someone was being treated poorly, why couldn't we make 0:07:13.996 --> 0:07:18.356 it different. It's just a constant throughout my life. I 0:07:18.436 --> 0:07:21.796 also wonder if you were thinking I want to find 0:07:21.836 --> 0:07:25.476 out those things that they're not teaching us, that maybe 0:07:25.476 --> 0:07:29.076 we're not even supposed to learn, which is why VC, 0:07:29.956 --> 0:07:35.116 you know, was interesting to you. Yes, No, you're definitely right. 0:07:35.356 --> 0:07:38.476 I just always had this sense of there's no room 0:07:38.516 --> 0:07:42.116 I shouldn't be allowed in. So if there's something that 0:07:42.316 --> 0:07:46.076 seems like it's really complex or it's for only a 0:07:46.116 --> 0:07:49.116 certain group of people, that's just a challenge to me. 0:07:49.356 --> 0:07:51.956 If I'm at all interested in it, that doesn't stop me. 0:07:51.996 --> 0:07:55.596 And it's my way of democratizing things. It's like having 0:07:55.596 --> 0:08:02.236 that information. Yeah, democratizing things means democratizing knowledge. Yes, exactly. 0:08:02.436 --> 0:08:06.516 So when you were doing your reading, were you thinking 0:08:06.556 --> 0:08:09.276 that you were going to become a venture capitalist? Where 0:08:09.356 --> 0:08:12.236 you thinking about a career shift at all? At the 0:08:12.316 --> 0:08:16.636 beginning of it, I was reading about venture capital so 0:08:16.676 --> 0:08:19.796 that I could know how to talk to venture capitalists 0:08:20.276 --> 0:08:24.076 once I started my own company. My original idea was 0:08:24.116 --> 0:08:27.676 to start a company in the tech space because I 0:08:27.716 --> 0:08:30.276 had always felt like an entrepreneur, and then when I 0:08:30.396 --> 0:08:33.956 learned about startups and venture capital and angel investing in 0:08:33.996 --> 0:08:36.596 all of those things, I thought, oh, this is where 0:08:36.636 --> 0:08:39.596 I have belonged my whole life, and didn't really understand 0:08:39.636 --> 0:08:44.076 it until now, and let me do the research to 0:08:44.156 --> 0:08:46.996 be prepared in these meetings that I'm of course going 0:08:47.036 --> 0:08:50.396 to have with venture capitalists. And so it was in 0:08:50.476 --> 0:08:53.676 that research when I came across these statistics after a 0:08:53.716 --> 0:08:57.156 little while, very early in the process, and I started 0:08:57.476 --> 0:09:02.036 reading more and learning about the beginnings, and I thought, oh, okay, 0:09:02.156 --> 0:09:06.676 so I probably can get into the room because I'll 0:09:06.676 --> 0:09:10.516 make a way, but I may not be welcome and 0:09:10.796 --> 0:09:12.916 I may not be followed by anybody else if I do. 0:09:13.636 --> 0:09:17.836 At least ninety percent of all venture capital in the 0:09:17.956 --> 0:09:21.836 United States goes to white men in a country where 0:09:21.836 --> 0:09:24.956 they make up less than one third of the country. 0:09:25.596 --> 0:09:28.116 So we got to change the whole system if I 0:09:28.156 --> 0:09:32.156 want to play in this arena. Wow. So that's a 0:09:32.156 --> 0:09:35.516 pretty big undertaking to think you having to change an 0:09:35.676 --> 0:09:39.356 entire system to be able to do what you wanted 0:09:39.396 --> 0:09:43.556 to do. But it sounds as though you were pretty 0:09:43.716 --> 0:09:45.996 clear that it was worth the risk, as you say, 0:09:46.116 --> 0:09:50.116 you're you have a tolerance for risk. Yeah, And when 0:09:50.116 --> 0:09:52.036 I think back on it now, I mean I was 0:09:52.116 --> 0:09:56.676 up against so much and it almost seemed impossible, and 0:09:56.716 --> 0:09:58.996 in fact, many people told me it was impossible, and 0:09:59.036 --> 0:10:02.076 many people laughed me out of rooms. There was one 0:10:02.076 --> 0:10:05.636 woman who told me in early twenty fifteen, after me 0:10:05.796 --> 0:10:08.716 working on this for like four years, I told her, 0:10:08.756 --> 0:10:12.276 I'm going invest in a hundred companies led by underrepresented 0:10:12.316 --> 0:10:15.116 founders by twenty twenty. I said that in twenty fifteen 0:10:15.196 --> 0:10:17.756 to her, she was in a place of privilege and 0:10:18.036 --> 0:10:21.556 I wanted to have a partnership with her. And she 0:10:21.756 --> 0:10:24.436 literally started laughing as she walked me out of her 0:10:24.476 --> 0:10:26.476 office and told me to come back when I was 0:10:26.716 --> 0:10:31.916 more realistic and skipping ahead just a bit. We reached 0:10:31.916 --> 0:10:36.236 one hundred investments in twenty eighteen. Right, and have you 0:10:36.276 --> 0:10:39.996 had a conversation with her? I couldn't pick her out 0:10:40.036 --> 0:10:42.956 of a lineup. I have no idea what her name 0:10:43.116 --> 0:10:45.836 was exactly, but I will bet that she could pick 0:10:45.876 --> 0:10:49.716 you out of a lineup today. Perhaps, what are the 0:10:49.836 --> 0:10:53.396 barriers that you faced when you were first trying to 0:10:53.396 --> 0:10:55.956 start your own VC firm and you'd moved from being 0:10:55.996 --> 0:11:00.596 a founder yourself to being someone who finances. I think 0:11:00.636 --> 0:11:03.036 a major part to understand is that not only was 0:11:03.076 --> 0:11:05.636 I trying to kind of walk into a place that 0:11:05.756 --> 0:11:08.756 wasn't bill for us, which most things weren't. I was 0:11:08.796 --> 0:11:13.636 also personally destitute. I don't mean that I was cute broke. 0:11:13.836 --> 0:11:16.196 I was broke broke. We you know, we didn't have 0:11:16.276 --> 0:11:20.556 money and it was a struggle for a long time, 0:11:21.156 --> 0:11:22.836 and every once in a while we get some money 0:11:22.836 --> 0:11:25.356 and you know, make that stretch for as long as 0:11:25.396 --> 0:11:28.956 we could. I ended up living essentially at the San 0:11:28.956 --> 0:11:34.356 Francisco Airport for a stretch in twenty fifteen and watching 0:11:35.276 --> 0:11:38.636 people walk by who I knew were investors. At the 0:11:38.756 --> 0:11:41.276 very beginning. Of course, people were brushing me off and 0:11:41.396 --> 0:11:45.076 kind of not really paying close attention. But I was 0:11:45.156 --> 0:11:49.076 also calling out the system, and in doing so, calling 0:11:49.076 --> 0:11:53.676 out various companies and firms. And even though I had 0:11:53.716 --> 0:12:00.316 this small platform, I started getting messages both direct and indirect, 0:12:00.596 --> 0:12:03.196 that I needed to shut up. And it was coming 0:12:03.236 --> 0:12:06.996 from someone who wanted to protect me and said, we 0:12:07.036 --> 0:12:09.636 don't do that. That's not how it works here. And 0:12:09.836 --> 0:12:15.036 it was also coming from people who thought that they 0:12:15.036 --> 0:12:18.116 could truly shut me up. They were making it very 0:12:18.156 --> 0:12:22.596 clear to me that, in their opinion, you don't go 0:12:22.716 --> 0:12:26.516 up against these titans of industry without their being a fallout. 0:12:27.516 --> 0:12:30.796 And they learned kind of earlier on that they couldn't 0:12:30.876 --> 0:12:35.396 silence me, but it did ruffle feathers and it I 0:12:35.516 --> 0:12:39.676 was just so surprised. I was honestly so shocked and 0:12:39.676 --> 0:12:42.396 surprised by it because I thought, all I'm doing is 0:12:42.436 --> 0:12:46.756 expressing my opinion. I don't have any power here. How 0:12:46.796 --> 0:12:49.276 in the world is it upsetting so many millionaires and 0:12:49.396 --> 0:12:55.836 billionaires that are successful, mostly white men, who could put 0:12:55.876 --> 0:12:59.516 their thumb down and kind of squash me. It was crazy, 0:13:00.396 --> 0:13:05.396 but I think it just showed just how fragile things 0:13:05.556 --> 0:13:08.636 really were. You know, there's a lot of money that 0:13:08.676 --> 0:13:12.556 flows in to Silicon Valley, and there are a lot 0:13:12.596 --> 0:13:17.636 of closed door decisions that are made that affect so 0:13:17.716 --> 0:13:19.876 many people. And I was sort of saying, you know, 0:13:19.916 --> 0:13:22.236 putting the spotlight and saying, hey, look over here, look 0:13:22.236 --> 0:13:24.916 what they're talking about, showing people like here, Okay, let 0:13:24.956 --> 0:13:27.036 me open up the blueprint for you. This is where 0:13:27.076 --> 0:13:28.916 you go, this is who you talk to, this is 0:13:28.996 --> 0:13:32.476 what this means. And if I'm able to do that 0:13:32.516 --> 0:13:36.516 without a college education, without any money, without any connections, 0:13:36.516 --> 0:13:40.636 homeless coming from nowhere, it must mean in their opinion, 0:13:40.756 --> 0:13:44.076 they're not as special as they've made themselves out to be. Yeah, 0:13:44.076 --> 0:13:47.356 I mean so you were questioning the exceptionalism that they 0:13:47.396 --> 0:13:52.756 were trying to promote that was key to success. It 0:13:52.836 --> 0:13:54.636 seems to me that what you were doing was key 0:13:54.716 --> 0:13:59.876 to what you saw as the need for a systemic change. Yes, 0:14:00.716 --> 0:14:04.436 and so that's why you kept doing it. Oh. Absolutely. 0:14:04.556 --> 0:14:07.396 I think if people hadn't been so against me doing it, 0:14:07.476 --> 0:14:11.076 I probably would have not proceeded. I probably would have said, Okay, 0:14:11.196 --> 0:14:13.596 I've said my piece. I'm probably gonna go over here 0:14:13.636 --> 0:14:15.876 and I'll help a few people out and raise some 0:14:15.916 --> 0:14:19.196 money for my company. But when I started seeing people 0:14:19.556 --> 0:14:22.476 raging against it, in very powerful men writing to me 0:14:22.636 --> 0:14:25.956 or having their minions right to me or do whatever, 0:14:26.756 --> 0:14:29.876 I thought, Oh, there's something more here. There's definitely something 0:14:29.916 --> 0:14:33.276 that's being hidden. We're gonna keep going. I'm glad you're 0:14:33.276 --> 0:14:36.396 stuck in there. But you had, by that time moved 0:14:36.516 --> 0:14:41.916 from Houston to the Bay Area. Yeah. I had took 0:14:41.916 --> 0:14:45.796 a one way flight that I crowdsourced the money to 0:14:45.876 --> 0:14:51.436 get because I'd been accepted into a two week investor 0:14:51.476 --> 0:14:56.196 boot camp at Stanford and it was right before they 0:14:56.236 --> 0:14:59.956 were getting ready to like have a lot of women, 0:15:00.236 --> 0:15:03.316 you know, come out about things in Silicon Valley. But 0:15:03.356 --> 0:15:05.436 It was during a time where it was important to 0:15:05.476 --> 0:15:07.916 them to have more women represented at this boot camp, 0:15:07.956 --> 0:15:11.716 and so they took their twenty thousand dollars tuition down 0:15:11.756 --> 0:15:15.796 to ten thousand for women. So I found my way. 0:15:16.196 --> 0:15:20.276 I crowdsourced a third of that. I stayed in an 0:15:20.276 --> 0:15:24.236 airbnb for a few days, and then after the catered 0:15:24.316 --> 0:15:27.956 lunches at the boot camp, I found myself at the airport. 0:15:28.796 --> 0:15:33.036 You were physically sleeping at the airport, yes, How did 0:15:33.076 --> 0:15:37.236 you choose the airport? I was very specific about the airport. 0:15:37.436 --> 0:15:41.076 I wanted a place that was indoors for many reasons. 0:15:41.676 --> 0:15:45.116 I wanted a place that I thought, Okay, it's probably 0:15:45.116 --> 0:15:47.676 going to be embarrassing and I might have to explain 0:15:47.716 --> 0:15:50.916 myself a lot, but I also want to be safe 0:15:51.356 --> 0:15:57.436 as possible, and there's access to facilities, and so to me, 0:15:58.276 --> 0:16:01.036 I had to do this mentally. I said to myself, 0:16:01.996 --> 0:16:06.636 I am a traveler, the world traveler, and I've missed 0:16:06.676 --> 0:16:10.356 my flight, so I'm going to sleep on the floor 0:16:10.356 --> 0:16:13.956 of the airport tonight. And I said that to myself 0:16:13.996 --> 0:16:17.156 over and over again each day to make it possible 0:16:17.196 --> 0:16:20.036 to do. For most of us, two nights would have 0:16:20.036 --> 0:16:23.076 been about as much as we could do. But I 0:16:23.076 --> 0:16:26.396 guess when you're determined, you can figure out how to 0:16:26.476 --> 0:16:29.316 do it. Yeah, it was a lot more than two nights, 0:16:29.876 --> 0:16:32.396 but I don't say the amount of time. I didn't 0:16:32.436 --> 0:16:35.676 count every day, but it was too long, so I 0:16:35.716 --> 0:16:38.316 don't really share it because I did have people rich 0:16:38.356 --> 0:16:41.316 people start to ask me, now, how homeless were you? 0:16:42.436 --> 0:16:46.676 Like literally, and I'm like enough, like I don't know, 0:16:46.876 --> 0:16:49.556 Like it was fun to find out or interesting in 0:16:49.636 --> 0:16:53.076 that way, and so I just started protecting myself and saying, 0:16:53.076 --> 0:16:57.236 you know what, I don't know how homeless you This 0:16:57.356 --> 0:17:00.236 particular person needs me to be for it to be legitimate. 0:17:00.276 --> 0:17:02.556 But it was more than it needed to be, and 0:17:02.596 --> 0:17:04.436 it was for a long time, and it was alone. 0:17:05.916 --> 0:17:08.956 After the break, Arlin Hamilton and I discuss how she 0:17:09.196 --> 0:17:13.076 created her fund and grew it using her keen instincts 0:17:13.116 --> 0:17:17.956 and abilities to recognize great ideas and the innovative people 0:17:18.316 --> 0:17:30.076 behind them. You're listening to getting even. I'm Anita Hill. 0:17:31.236 --> 0:17:35.196 I'm speaking with investor Arlin Hamilton about how she started 0:17:35.316 --> 0:17:41.476 backstage capital of venture capital fund. Hamilton backs underrepresented and 0:17:41.636 --> 0:17:47.156 unlikely founders, democratizing who gets to be part of Silicon Valley. 0:17:48.636 --> 0:17:53.876 So were you getting the information that you thought you 0:17:53.916 --> 0:17:58.796 would need to persuade investors that there were companies out 0:17:58.836 --> 0:18:01.956 there that could benefit from their money and that they 0:18:01.996 --> 0:18:05.356 could benefit from Yes. So I was talking to founders 0:18:05.556 --> 0:18:09.356 because I wanted to know my stuff. One of the 0:18:09.396 --> 0:18:11.596 first things I learned when I learned about venture capital 0:18:12.196 --> 0:18:16.076 was the phrase that deal flow is king, deal flow 0:18:16.156 --> 0:18:18.796 being what kind of companies do you have access to, 0:18:18.996 --> 0:18:22.236 who would let you invest in them? What are you seeing, 0:18:22.236 --> 0:18:26.516 what's the quality, etc. And that stuck with me and 0:18:26.556 --> 0:18:30.076 I said, well, if deal flow is king, I'm winning 0:18:30.076 --> 0:18:33.076 here because I'm seeing all of these companies. And I 0:18:33.076 --> 0:18:36.956 don't think that the current investors by and large that 0:18:37.036 --> 0:18:41.156 are out there would meet these founders, would even know 0:18:41.196 --> 0:18:43.276 where to find them. And I don't know if the 0:18:43.316 --> 0:18:46.196 founders would know how to get a call with the investors. 0:18:46.596 --> 0:18:50.796 So of course there's this really interesting gap that could 0:18:50.796 --> 0:18:53.556 be lucrative. So I was having those conversations. I was 0:18:53.636 --> 0:18:56.236 letting the founders know, Hey, I don't have a fund yet, 0:18:56.276 --> 0:18:59.916 but I'm raising one. So I was kind of establishing 0:19:01.156 --> 0:19:05.636 a track record a network and also realizing, oh, I 0:19:05.676 --> 0:19:08.756 have chops, I have a nose for this too, But 0:19:08.876 --> 0:19:12.476 you were doing all of this without the infrastructure that 0:19:12.636 --> 0:19:18.556 you now have. Correct So basically what was important was 0:19:18.596 --> 0:19:22.716 the work Exactly when you were first doing your work 0:19:23.436 --> 0:19:29.436 to find investors to find founders, were you experiencing any 0:19:29.516 --> 0:19:36.436 racism or sexism or both in those exchanges and finding founders. No, 0:19:37.036 --> 0:19:40.276 it was on the investor side, it really was. It's 0:19:40.316 --> 0:19:43.316 one of those things that it's hard to kind of 0:19:43.516 --> 0:19:47.196 show because it's all happening behind closed doors. But I 0:19:47.236 --> 0:19:50.956 remember getting a very late night phone call, probably two 0:19:50.996 --> 0:19:55.156 thousand and sixteen, after I had raised from a few 0:19:55.276 --> 0:20:03.716 interesting people, and this person was an early investor, a 0:20:03.836 --> 0:20:08.156 man with power, and he told me, Hey, I just 0:20:08.196 --> 0:20:10.396 want to let you know that I just left a meeting, 0:20:10.516 --> 0:20:13.036 like a closed door meeting, probably a poker game or 0:20:13.076 --> 0:20:18.116 something like that, and they were talking about you, and 0:20:18.756 --> 0:20:22.076 they were representing lots of different funds that you have 0:20:22.156 --> 0:20:24.476 to deal with, not only to raise from, but for 0:20:24.556 --> 0:20:28.796 your companies to raise from. And I want to say 0:20:28.796 --> 0:20:31.676 this as carefully as possible. They essentially put a hit 0:20:31.756 --> 0:20:36.036 on my fund. They put a no one's going to 0:20:36.036 --> 0:20:38.516 touch this fund. We're not going to let it succeed 0:20:39.076 --> 0:20:42.796 type of thing. Now, was that racist? Was that sexist? 0:20:43.076 --> 0:20:47.236 Was that very specific to meet? What was it? I 0:20:47.596 --> 0:20:50.116 don't know. And this person was telling me, and he 0:20:50.196 --> 0:20:51.996 was giving me a heads up because he had invested 0:20:51.996 --> 0:20:53.756 in I guess he just stayed silent in the room 0:20:53.796 --> 0:20:57.676 and I didn't ask him why he didn't say anything. 0:20:58.236 --> 0:21:01.516 But you know, it is what it is, and those 0:21:01.556 --> 0:21:06.236 types of things happen. And talking to the founders, people 0:21:06.276 --> 0:21:10.796 would tell me incredible things. Women would tell me about 0:21:10.956 --> 0:21:14.796 what male investors would dare say to them. I think 0:21:14.836 --> 0:21:18.916 people in public don't say as much to me blatantly 0:21:19.476 --> 0:21:22.556 because they know that I do have a platform. But 0:21:22.756 --> 0:21:26.996 founders will tell me that male investors have said things like, 0:21:27.596 --> 0:21:29.916 will invest in you if you don't get pregnant for 0:21:29.916 --> 0:21:31.676 the next couple of years so that you can focus 0:21:31.716 --> 0:21:34.676 on your company. You know, I've been in rooms with 0:21:34.836 --> 0:21:39.516 black women who have PhDs, who have all the chops 0:21:39.516 --> 0:21:43.356 in the world, who are generating revenue when there are 0:21:43.396 --> 0:21:45.916 some young white man who can raise ten million dollars 0:21:45.916 --> 0:21:50.196 off of an idea. And I've listened to the questions 0:21:50.236 --> 0:21:54.036 asked of these women. I've given a quick example. There 0:21:54.156 --> 0:21:55.956 is a woman who at the time I was in 0:21:56.116 --> 0:21:58.516 my early thirties and she was in her early forties. 0:21:59.116 --> 0:22:05.276 She was an adjunct professor at Stanford. I sent her deck, 0:22:05.396 --> 0:22:08.396 her pitch deck, which talks about her company, and I 0:22:08.476 --> 0:22:11.956 sent another They're from a white man and the guy 0:22:12.036 --> 0:22:14.916 had an idea, and she had a full fledged company, 0:22:15.356 --> 0:22:19.956 an invention with patents and was making money. And I 0:22:20.076 --> 0:22:23.076 got several emails back and with over a week's time 0:22:23.116 --> 0:22:24.316 from the people I sent it to, because I was 0:22:24.316 --> 0:22:26.876 sending it to mostly white men because that's who was 0:22:27.196 --> 0:22:32.836 writing checks, and almost all of them said, I'll take 0:22:32.876 --> 0:22:35.916 the meeting with this company, which was led by the guy, 0:22:36.756 --> 0:22:39.276 and for this company. They would say, I don't understand 0:22:39.316 --> 0:22:41.356 the market, so that I'm going to pass on this one. 0:22:41.676 --> 0:22:45.436 Now the market this was a product that was for 0:22:45.596 --> 0:22:50.876 hearing loss, so the market is for people who can 0:22:50.996 --> 0:22:56.996 hear and for people who cannot hear. It was for everyone. 0:22:58.316 --> 0:23:02.196 So you know, those subtle things add up. I call 0:23:02.276 --> 0:23:06.516 them papercuts. You know they add up. So my reaction 0:23:06.836 --> 0:23:10.476 to all of that was creating more success for myself 0:23:10.516 --> 0:23:14.316 and for the company. You seem very secure in who 0:23:14.396 --> 0:23:17.436 you are, but I wonder if you see a number 0:23:17.436 --> 0:23:22.836 of people who are kind of changing who they are 0:23:22.916 --> 0:23:27.556 to be more appealing. In some ways, it's code swishing 0:23:27.916 --> 0:23:32.756 or changing your personality or being something that you aren't 0:23:33.156 --> 0:23:39.476 in order to appeal to this very very limited thinking 0:23:39.556 --> 0:23:45.236 about who will be successful in business. Yes, absolutely, I've 0:23:45.236 --> 0:23:48.916 definitely seen it the entire time I've been in this industry. 0:23:49.276 --> 0:23:52.516 I see it today. I rail against it, and I 0:23:52.596 --> 0:23:56.636 often implore people not to do it. Especially in the 0:23:56.636 --> 0:23:59.516 early days. I thought, am I supposed to change the 0:23:59.556 --> 0:24:02.316 way I talk? Am I supposed to be quieter? Am 0:24:02.316 --> 0:24:04.276 I supposed to change the way I dress? Because I 0:24:04.316 --> 0:24:07.156 certainly don't dress the part. Am I supposed to do 0:24:07.196 --> 0:24:12.276 this or that? Or even aligned myself with certain people 0:24:12.276 --> 0:24:15.036 who I don't really respect but who can get me 0:24:15.076 --> 0:24:19.676 there faster. And even if I had a small inkling 0:24:19.716 --> 0:24:22.916 of this, I would reset and say, oh, no way 0:24:22.916 --> 0:24:25.756 on Earth, because it's just going to take longer and 0:24:25.796 --> 0:24:27.996 be more difficult. But I'm going to get there, and 0:24:28.076 --> 0:24:30.556 once I'm there, I have to be able to face myself. 0:24:30.996 --> 0:24:34.116 I've turned down lots of money, for instance, because I 0:24:34.156 --> 0:24:36.196 didn't think it was right to be in business with 0:24:36.236 --> 0:24:39.356 certain people, and so many people came before me and 0:24:39.436 --> 0:24:42.876 before us to make it, so so we should we 0:24:42.876 --> 0:24:44.716 owe it to them. We will owe it to ourselves. 0:24:44.756 --> 0:24:47.676 We owe it to the future generations not to do that. 0:24:48.276 --> 0:24:51.996 So let's they are a point where you've gotten maybe 0:24:51.996 --> 0:24:56.556 your first big VC inside or on your side, and 0:24:56.596 --> 0:25:00.156 you realize that the company's going to happen. Was it 0:25:00.796 --> 0:25:03.436 a moment or a series of things that happened that 0:25:03.756 --> 0:25:07.036 convinced you, Yeah, it was. It was a series of things. 0:25:07.036 --> 0:25:09.676 It wasn't one big moment. We had this moment where 0:25:09.676 --> 0:25:12.396 I went from the airport to actually being able to 0:25:12.436 --> 0:25:16.236 be in business, which was in September of twenty fifteen. 0:25:16.516 --> 0:25:20.756 An angel investor named Susan Kimberlin stood up and gave 0:25:20.796 --> 0:25:23.636 me the first fifty thousand to get started after spending 0:25:23.636 --> 0:25:26.076 a few months getting to know me, not knowing about 0:25:26.116 --> 0:25:29.716 my personal situation. Another thing that does continue to stand 0:25:29.716 --> 0:25:33.756 out to me, which is Stuart Butterfield, the CEO co 0:25:33.876 --> 0:25:36.316 founder of Slack. He reached out to me on social 0:25:36.796 --> 0:25:39.276 and he said, hey, you know, I see what you're doing. 0:25:39.436 --> 0:25:42.996