WEBVTT - Apple Sinks, TikTok Starts Courtroom Battle With US 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:11.640 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:14.840 From Mahart where Innovation, Money and power Collie in Silicon Valley, Nbon. 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:19.760 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.000 Live from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.560 Technology coming up this hour. Apple sinks of the warning 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.520 of warnings are there of weak demand for the new 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:44.160 iPhone sixteen Pro model. 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:49.520 Plus the European Union's most influential tech enforcer resigns. Details 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.479 about the surprise move out of Russell's. 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.600 And TikTok's courtroom battle where the US government. 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:58.000 Begins its freedom of speech versus national security. 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:01.760 Yeah, Apple is a big points drag to the downside. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:03.680 We're off session lows, but on track for our biggest 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:05.320 drop intraday. 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:05.959 Since August fifth. 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.600 TF Security is International out with a research note a 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.039 survey of early pre order data saying initial sales of 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.480 iPhone sixteen generation the Pro thirty. 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:17.199 Seven million units. 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.640 That would be a drop of thirteen percent year on 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.880 year for the first weekend of sales for the fifteen generation. 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:25.680 That's care some panic in the market. There's several other 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:30.080 analyst notes out today alongside TF International citing concerns from 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.880 China to the timing of Apple Intelligence release. One calmer 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.600 voice is Bloomberg Intelligence is Anna rag Rana, who joins 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:38.520 us from Chicago. 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:39.720 Now, and Ana rag. 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.280 You're basically saying, we can't determine now that this is 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:47.520 anemic demand. It could be oversupply of the available handset. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.120 What's your thesis? So when you look at it. 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.960 A few weeks ago, we heard that Apple was talking 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.160 to with supply, do we increase the shipments for this 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:00.200 particular model by about ten percent? So, you know, frankly speak, 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.240 there's lots of puts and takes. At this point, we 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.400 think it's still too early to basically call this a dud. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.000 So we're going to wait for another thirty days. Thirty 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.280 five days, here's some official comments from Apple when they 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:16.160 actually announce their earnings to really figure out what shipments 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:17.760 could be for the next financial year. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.880 Can you give us context as to how much you 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.960 look at your securities. How much does this sort of 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.079 pre order data tend to fluctuate with reality? 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.520 You know, it does fluctuate, and you know where sometimes 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.840 there are supply constraints, sometimes there is spikes and demands 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:37.919 in the earlier side of it, which is why I'm saying, 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.560 if you look at it for a twelve month cycle, 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.239 you know it could vary quite a bit before. I 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.040 mean seasonally fourth quarter is fourth or the December quarter 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.840 is the big quarter for Apple, and this is where 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.840 we could see some jump because of some improvement in China. 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.119 On the other side, it could go the exact opposite 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.959 way if China is weak of consumers, is not very good. 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.640 So there is so much dependent on the next thirty 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.040 to ninety days more than just you know, the first 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:08.639 three days and. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.519 Away from the early pre order data for iPhone. Other 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.760 analysts talk about China in the context of domestic competition. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:17.480 Now that you've seen what. 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.959 Huawei has to offer, how do you model that domestic 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:22.960 competition in China? 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:24.720 So I would say that if you look at it, 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.679 there was a big spike in demand because of Huawei 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.480 releasing its five G phone. Now there has been many 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.200 years since they didn't do that, and then because of that, 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.000 there was a you could say, a pull forward in 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.880 demand for them of the normal refresh cycle for that 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.600 particular brand. For Apple, Apple has to fight quite a 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.960 bit now to gain market share again in China. And 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:46.880 I think we you know, if there are going to 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.280 be any discounts from Apple anywhere in the world, we 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.680 think it's going to be in China at this point. Now, 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.800 the new form that came out from ourweh the twenty 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.120 eight hundred dollars one. I don't think that does that 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.560 damage to Apple's iPhone sales because it's two different categories. 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.560 Frankly, we're seeing weakness and supplies to Apple as well, 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:04.040 Anna Rag. 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:05.720 At the moment, what's. 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.840 The next data point, what's the next read we should 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:09.440 focus on. 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.839 I think when the company announces their results and then 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.120 you will get some official comments as to how those 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.800 pre orders are. I think that's far more important than 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.160 this time. The second thing we want to see is 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.039 when are the AI features coming out and what kind 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.400 of buzz is around it, because I think that can 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:31.719 change consumer sentiment very quickly if there are cooler things 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.400 that people can play with the phone, and that can 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.400 help drive some of the sales as well. 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.400 Anna Rag, So please to get as ed put it 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.320 your calm voice on today's show with Meg Intelligence, Anna Rograna. Meanwhile, 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.480 let's just pivot to the EU because the top tech 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:48.280 legislation enforcer, Thierry Breton has resigned. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:50.080 Now let's her post it on X. 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.440 Bretton antline the surprise move, saying France was asked to 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:57.440 provide a different nominee for the European Commission, writing quote, 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.400 in light of these latest developments for the testament to 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.279 questionable governance, I have to conclude I can no longer 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.239 exercise my duties in the College. For more, Bloomberg's John 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.280 Paicelli joins US now from Brussels. Bretton really had a 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.279 key hand here and shaping the ease response to what 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.960 seemed to be growing power of US tech. He was 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.040 the enforcer of the Digital Services Act. 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:21.360 Why is he out. 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:27.520 Well seems to be mostly because he and Bonderlion didn't 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:31.240 go didn't get along well together. I mean, if you 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.960 read the letter, he clearly said that vonderlyon president. The 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:40.719 European Commission demanded that requested the France propose a different 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:44.400 candidate due to personal reasons that Bretton himself was not 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:48.120 familiar with. So he has always been a bit of 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:52.240 a heavy hitter, a bit of a maverick within the Commission. 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.039 He certainly loved the limelight and that probably wrapped some 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.760 people the wrong way. At the end of the day, 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.320 you of course actually have had that to a Byton's 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:06.240 spearheaded some of the u's most important rule books when 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.560 it comes to tech and digital regulation. But those things 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.880 are done, those laws exist, the bureaucrats enforcing them are 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.760 in place. So even if Briton is not there in 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.240 a way, his spirit, his ghost will keep living. So 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.279 that's not necessarily a big worry for the Commission. 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.080 Well, his ghost leve On and Stephan Sir John, who 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:27.720 Maconn has already tapped. 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:30.719 Well, we don't know yet because it depends on what 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.320 kind of portfolio so John will get, and that's not clear. 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:38.279 It's going to be for sure media than what Burton 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.080 will have gotten. That was essentially the offer on the table, 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:45.599 right Maconn was told for personal reasons, I don't like Burton, 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.200 according to what Breton says. Therefore you get a media portfolio. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:53.840 If you propose another name and Stephan Sir John towards 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:58.000 in threads in and let's see what portfolio gets. It's 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.600 supposed to be a big one. So well, it might 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.839 be not to do with digital issues. 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.880 There are some issues vonder Lene and the new term. 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.560 Right four hundred and fifty million people, most in the EU, 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.480 A lot of them watched this program. Jan what's kind 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.240 of on her gender informing a new commission and the 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:17.600 team that she wants to assemble. 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.720 Well in the agenda and the team she wants to 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.160 assemble at two diffil matters, we know that she's not 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.040 very pleased with the fact that most member countries member 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.760 states put to put forward male candidates as opposed to 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.720 two candidates of both male and female. She wanted to 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.480 guarantee a gender balance within the college the way they 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.680 call it, but so far should the count is skewed 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.720 in favored men. When it comes to the actual agenda, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.320 we kind of got a glimpse of what it might 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:54.200 contain last week when the landmark Drugy Report was unveiled 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.480 by Mario Dragi, former Preme Minister of Italy and President 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.960 of the European Center Bank ear Slemont. Lion Is made 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.920 bay clear that she will use that pro competitiveness agenda 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.920 to forge next mandate. 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:13.280 Regulation of technology has been a top priority for this term. 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:14.840 How big a priority. 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.400 Will it be for the next five year term. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.920 It depends on how much Underlon decides to actually clave 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.760 to the Letter of Drugs Report, because if you go 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:30.120 by that document, the time for regulation is kind of uh. 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.800 The time of regulation was the past, where the future 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:38.880 has would be all about encouraging innovation, competitive competitiveness, big 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:44.240 mergers of national champions center telecom and defense contractors. So 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.520 it should be less about regulation and much more about 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:52.080 building technology, at least encouraging European technology companies to emerge. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:56.160 So if that's what happens, regulation will be kind of 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:00.240 the backbone the bedrock on which a new end of 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.400 agenda would be built, which would be much more about 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.000 innovating regulating. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.280 Bloomberg's gen Bob Bacelly. Great to have you on the 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:10.520 show from Brussels. Thank you very much. Let's get to 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.160 another top story. Shares of Trump media down in today's 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:19.079 trading following another shocking development in the US presidential campaign yesterday, 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.360 when members of the Secret Service engage what law enforcement 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:27.880 described as a rifle wielding potential assassin near former President Trump. 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.440 Gunfire erupted at his Palm Beach course while he was 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:35.480 playing golf. In the immediate aftermath, Trump emailed supporters to 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.160 declare he was quote safe and. 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:39.439 Well and on dj T carry. 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:41.480 I think it's worth pointing out real quick that on 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.120 Friday he had said he wouldn't sell out of his shares, 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.080 and that's been a factor in that name as well. 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:47.240 What we got coming up. 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:51.199 Coming up a US appeals court ed is hearing challenges 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.960 to the TikTok BANLRD. We're going to be joined by 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.920 Doug Kaladas follow at the Harvard Belfa Center on what 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:57.600 to expect. 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.959 Meanwhile, just checking on some shares for a moment, because 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:01.000 Boeing is moving. 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.719 We understand, of course that they are looking at a 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:08.640 hiring freeze. They're instituting that and considering temporary furloughs after 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.959 some employees went on strike Friday. This is according to 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.160 a memo to employees from the CFO Bran West. 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:33.120 This is Blue Meg Technology, Ali Barber and Small Arrival 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.520 JD dot Com, both under pressure as investors a weighing 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.599 the potential fallout from US plans to begin taxing packages 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.560 worth less than eight hundred dollars. Washington's latest move to 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.840 clamp down on tax free imports of Chinese goods is 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.800 closing a loophool that Temu and Shean have employed for 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.760 years to ship hundreds of millions of packages into the 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.080 US annually, helping them carve out a market at the 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:57.360 expense of Amazon. 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:58.200 We'll keep tracking that. 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.880 Today, TikTok is making its fight against the US ban 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.920 to the next level in the American court system. The 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.199 US Court of Appeals for the DC cirguit will hear 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.640 arguments against the new law signed by President Joe Biden 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.000 banning TikTok in the US if it's China based parent company, 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:18.880 byte Dance, does not divest ownership by January nineteenth. Dougkladas 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.240 is a Harvard Belfa Center fellow and former chief of 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:25.000 staff to Senator Amy Klobuchar, and joins US now. And 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.320 at the heart of the argument from TikTok is the 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:33.120 First Amendment that the law impinges upon the freedom of 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.280 speech of TikTok's one hundred and seventy million or so 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.400 users in the United States. 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.320 How successful is that argument going to be we'll find 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:43.840 out ed this is the top case. 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.400 On the one side, you have first Amendment writer of 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.480 free expression, which the courts are likely they don't like 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.560 to circumscribe that narrowly. They're going to give that a 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.840 broad read. At the same time, you have what the 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.240 US government is saying is a unique security threat that 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.800 has unprecedented reach and depth. So you have strong arguments 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:05.920 on both sides, and everyone's watching to see which way 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:06.880 it'll come out. 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.680 Doug, We the three of us, have discussed this before, 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.199 and we will discuss it again. Why does the political 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.160 engine not take into account more the wishes of the 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.079 user base one hundred and seventy million Americans who like 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:20.960 using TikTok. 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:27.080 It's very difficult for lawmakers to go against the will 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.560 of the voters, but it happens when there's a serious 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.240 enough threat that they're willing to reach across the aisle, 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.600 hold hands and do something difficult together. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:37.680 When there's law has passed. 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.080 You saw Democrats and Republicans in both chambers vote for 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.600 an overwhelming numbers, which gives everyone cover. It's very difficult 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.800 to criticize one party when the other party is doing it. 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:48.280 Just as much. 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.480 Do you think it will be justified in banning. 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:54.839 I don't know. 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.120 I think this is a very difficult case to predict. 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.000 It's you know, people have said we're in uncharted territory here. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.840 It seems like the First Amendment questions are very profound. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.200 At the same time, the Justice Department has laid out 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.839 when many believe are very compelling reasons that TikTok is 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.240 a threat to national security. Of course, a lot of 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:18.000 this justification is done in classified filings that we as 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.760 the public do not have access to. TikTok's own lawyer 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.600 dom have access to this, so much of us will 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.120 be decided behind closed doors by the judges and the 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.200 US government, and we'll find out what happens shortly after 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.000 the election if they hear to the timeline. 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.280 Talking of timeline, it feels like things have changed quite 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.080 a lot since last we spoke. The fura around it 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.280 has died down, and I'm wondering more broadly, whether you 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:50.400 think the focus from lawmakers is is ardent, whether their 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.480 data will be as proven out from a security threat perspective, 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.120 and whether a band would fix that. 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.200 So prior to passing the law, the Executive brings and 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.200 Congress gathered a great deal of information, and the filings 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.520 lay this out. There's testimony from a lot of national 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.439 security officials, a lot of public reporting about some of 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.960 the links between TikTok and the Chinese Communist Party, and 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.200 they've made the case. The question is whether the First 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:20.680 Amendment permits this type of really draconian restrictions. This is 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.400 an unprecedented action by the US government against a media outlet. 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.400 But they're saying that the facts of this case are unique. 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.280 I think we know enough about the facts, notwithstanding the 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:35.080 classified filings, to have a sense of really what the 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.800 stakes are here. But no matter which way the case 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:39.760 comes out, people are going to be unhappy. I think 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.960 even if the government proves its case and they find 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:47.360 that n security reasons are strong enough to justify the action, 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:49.960 there's a precedent that's going to be set for what 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.960 the federal government can do with regard to technology and 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.320 platforms that a lot of people can be wried about 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.280 and could possibly be abused by the government in the future. 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.320 It's often said that tough cases make bad law, and 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:03.560 that may be what happens here. 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.760 Doug, as a student of the law, I love this bit. 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.040 But the courts will balance the freedom of speech argument 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.440 against the national security interest argument. This is what the 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.560 DOJ says. Given TikTok's broadreach within the United States, the 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.200 capacity for China to use TikTok's features to achieve its 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:27.000 overarching objective to undermine American interests creates a national security 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.520 threat of immense depth and scale. How difficult or not 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.880 will it be for the US to prove that national 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:34.720 security threat? 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.000 So it depends on what legal standard the court employs. 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.080 There are different levels of scrutiny how closely they look 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.880 at the government's motivations and justifications. If they apply what's 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.480 called strict scrutiny, the bar is quite high, and the 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.040 government has to show that there's a really compelling government 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.920 government interest and that the law is narrowly tailored. 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:56.200 To meet that aim. 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:58.480 They go to great length and they're briefing to try 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.560 to lay out the case. But it is a high war. 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.560 And again, this is a case that is so unique 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.400 that the presidents that are on point don't seem quite right. 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:11.360 We know that the government can prevent foreign ownership of 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.400 radio and television companies, but they do that under the 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:18.480 licensed authority. They have much more restricted powers when it 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.280 comes to print sources. So is TikTok more like a 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.320 print source or is it more like a radio or 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:24.200 television station. 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:25.400 It's only different. 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:26.920 And that's what the court is going to have to 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:27.440 contend with. 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:29.320 Just briefly. 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.080 We've heard, of course from TikTok. The argument remains the same. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.440 This band would devastate seven million businesses. They also talk 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.400 with the one hundred and seventy million Americans that Ed 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:42.800 already referenced. You understand the world of lobbying, having worked 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.640 in that world previously, what will it be like behind 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:46.120 the scenes. 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.080 So what's interesting about the effort, the lobbying effort before 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.800 the bill was passed, was that TikTok put a lot 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.160 of money and resources and effort into trying to prevent 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.520 a law from passing, and it was entirely in effective. 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:02.760 Now we can talk about tactics, and they took some 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.280 steps that people believe backfired. But it seems more important 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.520 the fact that it is a foreign company, and fundamentally, 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.639 foreign owned entities have different rights under the US Constitution. 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.760 They are restricted in some methods they can use to lobby. 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.320 And there's a lot of US type companies that don't 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.800 love TikTok and we'll be quite happy to see it 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.199 go away. And they also have their own lobbyists, so 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:24.080 it goes both ways. 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.520 Once who don't love them, perhaps competitors half in PATHA 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.560 center fellow Diclidis, thanks for joining us. 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:32.880 Now let's talk about China a little more. 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.720 It's claimed a breakthrough in the development of homegrown chip 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.520 making equipment, an important step in. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.399 The overcoming US sanctions. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.160 Now the Ministry of Industry and It advised state linked 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:46.120 organizations to use a new laser based immersion lithography machine 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.359 with a resolution of sixty five nanometers all better. Basically, 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.960 it's a significant step up from the previous most advanced 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.720 indigenous equipment, which did around ninety nanometers. 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.240 Apple shares are under pressure or off session loads, but 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:12.040 down almost three percent. A TF Securities survey showing that 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.840 pre order sales for the iPhone sixteen generation down about 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.720 thirteen percent year on year from the fifteen demand, not 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.000 what we thought it would be. Continued to track it 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:23.720 because supplies under pressure as well. 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.480 Cara Yeah, Mark German writing over the weekend that really 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.760 was the health side of the equation that stole the show. 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.280 But as Apple of course sinks this morning following last 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.399 week's product launch events, the company still hasn't resolved their 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.800 legal fight with Massimo court. There's a blood oxygen detection, 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.080 of course that that company offers, which prompted a US 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.560 ban on Apple watches featuring the technology. Now, Massimo has 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.480 partnered with Google and Qualcom to develop a reference platform 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.520 to help bring more smart watchers to market with their 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.280 biosensing capabilities joining us now. 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.399 Jokiani, the CEO of the company, and what is this about. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.199 You have impressive health features, but Apple watched we just 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.199 heard the new unveiling they're getting sleep apnea and the like. 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:07.000 How do you compete their Joe. 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:12.879 Well, we compete based on good science. We have continuous, 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:19.800 accurate SPO two palsphorate. We can even measure hydration a 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:21.120 pulsephrate variability. 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:23.040 Nobody else has that. 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:25.680 In fact, I don't understand how you can do sleep 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:31.320 apnea without SPO two. I know clinically it's not done. 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.440 So it'll be interesting to see if Apple's promising things 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.080 they can't deliver again like they did with their SPO two, 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:39.879 or they really have figured out how to do it 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:40.880 without SPO two. 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:42.240 Time will tell. 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:48.000 So you're offering this platform with Quilcom, You're helping Google 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.840 offer more smart watches, more health features. It feels as 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.720 though that Joe, Look, if you don't think that Apple 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.200 can deliver what it promises, does that mean more cord action. 0:19:57.359 --> 0:19:59.640 Where does your fight currently stand with Apple and it's 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:01.240 smart one. 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:05.960 Well, we, as you know, enjoined Apple from selling SPO 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.320 to in the US. Uh, there's a trade secret case 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:11.399 that's going to be reheard, and if we win that, 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.399 then we'll have a broad injunction against them on photo 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.520 platismography so they can't even do pulse rate and a 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:19.399 rhythme detection. 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.240 And then if we win our patent. 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:26.320 Case, which is about how do you do photo pedtasmography 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:30.679 with very low battery consumption, then that'll be even a 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.480 wider injunction. So potentially our injunction could go worldwide and 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:39.119 much broader. However, what's really cool is this partnership with Google, 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.359 which I'd love to tell you more about if we're 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:46.200 excited about it. Every Android user now can have a real, 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:52.800 scientifically based, continuous, accurate wearable with this reference design we're 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:57.520 creating with them, and I think in the next couple 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.159 of years you're going to see a slow slewth of 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:05.480 products from luxury products to smart watches from the typical 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:10.879 Android world. That will be an incredible offering for our 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:11.879 mutual customers. 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:14.080 I hate to say, Joe, because we've only got a minute, 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:16.879 so I ask to be brief. But you've got some 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.800 fascinating things happening. You've got a proxy battle going on 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:22.560 at the moment. They want to see more governance, want 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:24.240 to have more board oversight. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:25.560 How do you fight Poltan? 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.200 Well, you saw that Polton was found to have lied 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.920 to our shareholders. The court, a federal judge found multiple 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:37.159 lives held them in contempt. So you've got someone who 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.919 has no integrity that talks about governance. Yeah, you have 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:45.080 us who've done everything right morally right, not just even legally, 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.880 and we've made all this progress from bringing the business 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:53.439 through COVID and now this incredible Google partnership. I think 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.800 this should be ninety one percent to nine percent. Only 0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:59.040 person voting for him should be him. 0:21:59.280 --> 0:21:59.520 Joe. 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.000 We wish you can have more information from you. Maybe 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:02.880 we'll get you back. 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:04.679 After the vote comes September the nineteenth. 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:04.840 Free. 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.560 Thank you, Jokani CEO, Masimo. This is bloom meg Technology. 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.840 Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Caroline Hide, New York and. 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:24.439 Ed Ludlow here in San Francisco. 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:28.240 Another megacap named Microsoft just announced that Voda Phones signed 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.040 a large deal to use AI Assistance for Office and 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:33.760 unveiled a range of new AI tools designed to help 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:38.560 workers create Excel charts, prioritize emails, and collaborate with one another. 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:39.080 Listen to this. 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:44.120 You can think of core Pilot as the UI for AI. 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:48.199 It helps you break down these silos between your work artifacts, 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:53.640 your communications, and your business parcesses. And we're just getting started. 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.600 Bloomberg's Dina bas Is here with the details, and diner 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.280 I point out that when Microsoft started its presentation about 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:02.680 eleven New York time stock was modestly lower. 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:03.840 It is now modestly higher. 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:07.280 But in Vodaphone's case, it's kind of evidence finally of 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:12.639 how workers might use AI in the workplace for actual stuff. 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:13.560 Give us the details. 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:16.840 Sure, yeah, and this is you know, this is a 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:20.200 pricey offering Microsoft. If you do this, they're asking me 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.760 to pay thirty bucks a month per user, in addition 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:24.760 to what you already pay for office licenses. 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:27.440 So part of what they're trying to do today is twofold. 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:30.360 They want to demonstrate new features, and there's some discussion 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.000 of that, but they also want to demonstrate new customers 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:35.439 that people are actually using this and that it's helping 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:37.480 them do things that it's saving them time. 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:40.560 And so you know, one of the things they mentioned around. 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.720 Vodaphone, which has been trying it out with a smaller 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:45.720 group of people, is that those early trials found that 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:49.840 workers saved about three hours a week per person, which 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:52.120 may sound modest, but it's a start. I think that 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:54.320 that's one of the things they really have to demonstrate 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:57.879 is that these are useful tools and not just like 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:00.520 a fun thing or something that companies going to spend 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:02.640 money on and not really know how to use effectively. 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:07.040 Call them copilots, call them agents. Everyone's discussing it. You've 0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:12.360 got salesforce now Microsoft and ultimately Microsoft competing against its 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:14.360 own technology. 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:18.280 Provider here open ai. How does it distinguish itself sture. 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:20.159 That's a lot of what we're hearing today. 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.359 The event today is focused not on consumers but on 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:28.040 corporate customers, and it heavily leverages Microsoft's you know, long 0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:31.880 standing stronghold in the corporate commuting space, which is office 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:35.479 of course. So the copilots that are being discussed today 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:40.800 are for things like Excel, Teams, Word Outlook, email, and 0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:43.960 the idea is that you know, whether it's competing with 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:48.040 open Ai, or Salesforce or other business software companies. The 0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:52.400 real kind of you know, stronghold beachhead that Microsoft has 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:55.600 with corporate Customers's office, so to the extent that they 0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:59.840 can create useful artificial intelligence features that work with our 0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:03.280 that's something that no one else can offer. One of 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:06.640 the biggest strongholds that really people have not been able 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:11.240 to replace Microsoft in is Excel spreadsheets. You know, financial analysts, 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:13.479 people who really live in Excel say, you know, for 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:16.720 the most part, can't really use anything else. And Microsoft's 0:25:16.760 --> 0:25:18.520 been trying to figure out how to get the AI 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:22.600 copilot working well and in a useful fashion and what 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:24.680 they hope will be a critical fashion that Excel and 0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:28.040 they announced you know, some new features around that today, 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:31.720 and in particular that they're going to integrate the Python 0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:35.879 programming language, which is really popular for data work, into 0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:39.920 the Excel AI copilot in a way that lets people. 0:25:39.760 --> 0:25:42.439 Use it without having actually no programming code. 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:45.919 You could just make a regular you know, English language 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:47.720 or plane speech queries. 0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:50.680 You've covered this company for a long time, and I 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:53.000 always reflect in Microsoft's history that they're really good at 0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:56.440 selling stuff software you could probably get otherwise for free 0:25:56.440 --> 0:25:59.960 somewhere else the co Pilot's thirty dollars per month per use. 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:02.679 So if you have a company with thousands of employees, 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:06.520 you think they'd start having immense revenue growth. When does 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:08.760 the street think they will? 0:26:09.320 --> 0:26:12.119 Everyone's trying to figure that out, and it's it's going 0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:14.120 to be even harder because let's be clear that when 0:26:14.160 --> 0:26:17.119 Microsoft reports earnings, it's not as if they're breaking it 0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:19.120 out in such a way where you can say, oh, this, 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:23.280 you know, this increase in Office is due to to Copilot. 0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:24.320 You know. 0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:27.560 Again, they gave some numbers today, but they don't you know, 0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:31.600 they're positive for Microsoft, but not terribly specific. And so 0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:35.080 they said, for example, the Copilot customers increased by more 0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:38.360 than sixty percent quoter on quoter, the number of clients 0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:41.120 with more than ten thousand users doubled, But we don't 0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:43.440 know what that translates into into raw numbers. 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:45.600 We don't know what that translates into revenue. 0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:48.760 And also I began by saying thirty dollars per user 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:52.639 per month, that's the list price. Most corporate customers they 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:55.880 use Office do that through a multi year enterprise agreement, 0:26:56.400 --> 0:26:59.280 and there is you know, the way agreements work in 0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:02.639 this industry, there there's discounting, so we don't really know 0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:05.600 if they're you know, particularly for these early customers, or 0:27:05.720 --> 0:27:07.720 they're giving them any sort of promotional pricing. 0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:10.840 Diana Bass, thank you very much. 0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:14.160 Indeed, let's keep the discussion going across Microsoft and more 0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:17.880 broadly and a Mentionment Portfolio Manager, Fidelities, Select Semiconductors Portfolio, 0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:20.439 and plenty of others as well. Adam, it's great to 0:27:20.480 --> 0:27:22.200 have you because some of the funds that you help 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:25.320 manage have a sizable exposure to Microsoft. 0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:28.040 Are they owning their moat at the moment? 0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:30.439 Thanks for having me. 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:33.920 Look, you know, as you talked about in the segment before, 0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:36.720 you know, we're pretty early in AI and thirty dollars 0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:38.639 per user per month is a lot to ask, and 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:41.720 even if it's being discounted, you know, we're talking about 0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:43.760 something that's going to take a while to play out, 0:27:43.880 --> 0:27:49.200 and having these tools be used and people figure out 0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:50.560 how to use them. 0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:51.679 Will take a while. 0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:54.760 But the use cases are rolling out and we're going 0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:56.960 to see this over the next you know, several years 0:27:57.000 --> 0:27:57.359 for sure. 0:27:57.800 --> 0:27:59.639 The question is what's priced in? 0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:03.200 And I was discussing on Earlier, which has had a 0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:06.680 massive rally last week and the chip designer a new 0:28:06.840 --> 0:28:09.880 call on the street saying that the price is already. 0:28:09.560 --> 0:28:11.480 Reflecting a lot of the upside here. 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:13.800 Is that the case for the MAG seven for technology 0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:16.280 more broadly, as we start to see rates getting cut. 0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:20.159 Yeah, sure, I mean to talk about the MAG seven 0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.480 in one case is hard, right. There's seven different companies. 0:28:23.520 --> 0:28:27.080 They all have different businesses. Three of them have cloud 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:29.879 businesses of course, so they overlap, but outside of that, 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:31.360 they're very different businesses. 0:28:31.400 --> 0:28:32.480 And I think, you. 0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:35.560 Know, just centering in on AI in general, I think 0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:39.200 there is a lot of you know, consternation in the market. 0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:41.800 Clearly you're talking about the FED and interest rates and 0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:44.800 the macro environment, which is, you know, one whole piece 0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:46.760 of what's going on and something I need to pay 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:48.480 attention to as a portfolio manager. 0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:51.200 But from a technology perspective and just. 0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:55.440 Generative, AI is evolving and we're still really early days 0:28:55.440 --> 0:28:58.840 in this. I know the market has this desire to 0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:01.600 sort of have instant gratification that we're just going to 0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:03.040 see it all all of a sudden. 0:29:03.560 --> 0:29:05.360 This is a super complex problem. 0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:08.200 We need to roll out all this infrastructure, get the 0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:12.040 compute in place, train these models, retrain the models and. 0:29:12.000 --> 0:29:14.560 Then roll them out over time. This is going to 0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:15.160 take some time. 0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:17.400 So you know, in terms of what's priced in, it's 0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:20.520 it's really hard to talk about it. You know, broadly speaking, clearly, 0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:23.880 there's some stocks that have been overpriced, you know, that 0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:25.800 have priced in a lot of their upside. If you 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.880 look back in twenty three, just as an example, there 0:29:28.960 --> 0:29:31.880 was this dynamic where everyone was an AI winner. Well 0:29:31.960 --> 0:29:34.360 look at you know, fast forward to twenty four, you've 0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:37.480 seen some separation. You know, you mentioned Inteller as an 0:29:37.480 --> 0:29:40.080 early example. That stock was up ninety five percent in 0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:42.600 twenty twenty three. That stock is down sixty. 0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:43.040 Percent this year. 0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:46.240 So we're starting to see a separation of not everyone's 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:49.680 gonna win and they're gonna be winners, there's gonna be losers. 0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:53.400 And yeah, certainly there's there's certainly stocks that have priced 0:29:53.440 --> 0:29:55.400 in a lot of this goodness and then there's some 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:55.960 that haven't. 0:29:57.320 --> 0:30:00.560 Adam, it's called eli in ings, and you've talked about 0:30:00.680 --> 0:30:03.920 not maybe seeing something immediately to the satisfaction faction of 0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:06.440 the market. But now the earning season's out the way. 0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:09.280 We've discussed what kind of jacket Jensen was wearing and 0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:12.240 how bullish a signal that was is this story in 0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:15.680 tact for you, the big picture AI investment cycle story. 0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:19.800 I mean, once again, it's it's hard to say, you know, 0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:24.000 broadly speaking, to capture every company, but I think in 0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:27.440 terms of AI, you know, I still think we're very 0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:31.320 early in this in this cycle, and there's some companies 0:30:32.000 --> 0:30:35.720 that I think are going to massively benefit here, and 0:30:35.760 --> 0:30:38.160 we're going to continue to see this out. And and 0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:40.640 I think, you know, when I look back, you know, 0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:43.680 June period, it felt like kind of everyone was in 0:30:43.720 --> 0:30:46.440 the boat, and now there's a lot of skepticism, there's 0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:49.080 a lot of concern, and that's really healthy for the market. 0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:51.040 But I think, you know, this is going to be 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:51.480 a journey. 0:30:51.520 --> 0:30:53.240 There's going to be a bumps along the way, and 0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:56.280 and and the stocks also, you know, disconnect with the 0:30:56.320 --> 0:31:00.200 fundamentals at different times. You know, stocks sometimes price in 0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:03.680 too much, sometimes they get too negative, and so you know, 0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:05.719 you got to think about it from that perspective as 0:31:06.000 --> 0:31:06.720 you manage money. 0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:10.240 And in my job for for my investors, Adam, every 0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:13.400 day I think not just about the GPU bought high 0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:17.120 bandwidth memory etheranet as well, you know, areas of the 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:21.560 market that perhaps appreciated in that supply chain. What are 0:31:21.600 --> 0:31:24.920 the areas that you feel right now underappreciated or misunderstood. 0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:28.920 Sure, I mean that that's a there's a long answer 0:31:28.920 --> 0:31:29.160 to that. 0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:32.200 But but you know, I think you know, overall there's 0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:36.000 been this emphasis on chips, and I think you know 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:38.440 where people are getting it wrong a little bit is 0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:42.600 these are really data centers, right, these are supercomputers. 0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:45.000 You know, Nvidia doesn't sell a chip. 0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:47.040 You know, if you look at Blackwell, they have seven 0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:49.960 different chips that day designed. It's a full system and 0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:53.840 it's a full stack solution with software, the algorithms, and 0:31:53.880 --> 0:31:56.600 the libraries that are really important to make all this work. 0:31:56.720 --> 0:32:00.240 So but within that, you know, as you mentioned high 0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:03.880 bandwidth memory. Without high bandwidth memory, that's crucial to making this. 0:32:04.720 --> 0:32:06.920 You know, evolution of AI happened. 0:32:06.960 --> 0:32:08.920 You know, there's a lot of interconnects that are super 0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:12.920 important in terms of networking. You mentioned Ethernet that's important, 0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:16.320 so is in Finamon. There's other interconnects like you know 0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:20.000 Esteri Labs makes that went public back in March, that 0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:23.840 is super important, and optical interconnects as well. So there's 0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:26.720 a ton of things that make this happen, but people 0:32:26.760 --> 0:32:28.840 need to be thinking about it, not on a chip 0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:30.200 by chip basis, but more. 0:32:30.080 --> 0:32:34.720 On a systems level. Telary Portfoilio manager Adam and Benjamin. 0:32:34.760 --> 0:32:36.600 Great to have you here on Bloomberg Technology. 0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:37.560 Really appreciate it. 0:32:37.680 --> 0:32:40.040 Now coming out, We're gonna be joined by LTK president 0:32:40.080 --> 0:32:43.440 Amba Ben's box talk about the state of the creator economy, 0:32:43.560 --> 0:32:46.880 even as TikTok's future in the United States is up 0:32:46.920 --> 0:33:01.120 in the air. This is Bloomberg Technology. Okay, time for 0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:05.000 talking tech and first up. SpaceX's Polaris Dawn Cruz splash 0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:08.280 down off the coast of the dry Tortugas, Florida yesterday. 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.680 This after their historic first commercial spacewalk on Thursday. The 0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:17.080 SpaceX capsule hurtled through the atmosphere before gliding into the 0:33:17.080 --> 0:33:20.600 ocean for landing. Plus AI startup GROC has partnered with 0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:23.800 oil producer a Ramcodes to build out data centers in 0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:26.600 Saudi Arabia with the hopes of becoming a hub for 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:29.800 companies across the Middle East, Africa and India. Aramco will 0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:32.520 fund the development that is expected to cost quote in 0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:35.760 the order of nine figures and a Jeff Bezos back 0:33:35.760 --> 0:33:38.680 group says it's setting up a program to attract investment 0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:42.040 into South African power grids. The Global Energy Alliance for 0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:44.480 People on Planet says it will work with partners for 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:48.200 investments to repair and upgrade the grids, needing nearly eighteen 0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:51.440 billion dollars for the introduction of renewable energy. 0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:54.200 Carol, Now, let's talk about the creator economy ed as. 0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:57.320 Today is LDKAS twelfth annual conference, bringing together nearly four 0:33:57.400 --> 0:34:00.480 hundred top global creators to discuss the state the feature 0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:03.720 the industry. LTK co founder and president Ambaven's Books joins 0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:04.320 us now. 0:34:04.160 --> 0:34:06.000 And I'm a congrats. 0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:08.720 A lot of ye is under the belt of this event. 0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:11.759 What are the concerns, what are they worried about? 0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:13.880 Do things top of mind for our creators? 0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:16.000 This year and last month we just had three billion 0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:19.600 dollars invested in LTK creators on the LTK platform. We're 0:34:19.600 --> 0:34:22.560 continuing to see dollars rotate in as our creators think 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:24.640 about preparing for the future of their business. The two 0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:26.960 things their top of minor community. Where are they going 0:34:27.000 --> 0:34:30.000 to retain, nurture and grow that community. We know that 0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:32.520 for a creator, the plot is that they have to 0:34:32.560 --> 0:34:35.120 have a community that they can access and that has 0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:37.520 high trust with them that they're engaging with constantly. 0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:39.320 So, first of all, in the community side. 0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:41.000 Where are those where is that community being built, and 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:43.880 how are they going to continue to engage them. On 0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:46.960 the other side, we released a massive suite of AI 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:49.200 tools for both our creators and our brands. 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:51.880 Today are the type of tools that's not AI for 0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:52.839 tech's sake. 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:54.640 These are the things that are moving their business forwards. 0:34:54.719 --> 0:34:57.359 This is driving efficiencies, it's doing work for them, it's 0:34:57.360 --> 0:35:00.480 taking subjectivity out of the decision making, and we expected 0:35:00.520 --> 0:35:03.799 to drive big outcomes for both brands and creators. We 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:07.759 now see that the vast majority of every single demographic 0:35:07.840 --> 0:35:10.360 in the United States says that they are shopping from creators. 0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:14.320 Creator guided shopping has arrived, and lt K is a platform. 0:35:13.920 --> 0:35:15.400 That powers creator commerce. 0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:19.239 If they're not building community in the way that they 0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:22.720 were on the normal platforms, what is happening? 0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:24.520 And but how are they driving dollars? 0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:26.880 Well, it's a great question connected to a lot of 0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:29.960 the conversations today. Over the last decade, they've spent their 0:35:30.000 --> 0:35:33.400 time really investing in social media platforms because those platforms 0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:36.040 actually used to be the place where they could collect, 0:35:36.120 --> 0:35:38.640 nurture and grow that community and meet them every day. 0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:41.120 And what we've seen is that over the last several years, 0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:44.399 especially acutely over the last year, these platforms have moved 0:35:44.400 --> 0:35:45.759 from being people based. 0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:46.600 To interest space. 0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:49.600 We see that people are spending more time on these platforms, 0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:55.279 but they are reporting much less of a productive experience there. 0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:57.360 They really are missing out on the human connection. 0:35:57.680 --> 0:35:59.560 So lt K has been investing in a place for 0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:03.080 creators to actually keep their audiences, grow them, reach them 0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:06.080 on a daily basis. Because the job that social media 0:36:06.120 --> 0:36:09.640 platforms have they've really abandoned as they've of course leaned into, 0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:12.720 as they would their revenue model, which they're not created 0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:15.719 to help a creator reach their community. They're created to 0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:19.040 be an advertising product. And so we filled that void 0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:21.040 for these creators and so they're. 0:36:20.880 --> 0:36:21.719 Doing it on their LTK. 0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:24.600 LTK is now shipped to become a video first platform 0:36:24.840 --> 0:36:27.480 that striving major outfrome comes for these creators. In the 0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:29.840 last month, we've made some shifts that have resulted in 0:36:29.880 --> 0:36:32.040 people watching over five minutes at a time on a 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:35.600 creator's channel. Through video, we know that connection with their 0:36:35.640 --> 0:36:39.560 audience is really important. High trust is why this industry exists. 0:36:39.239 --> 0:36:42.600 And why it works amber Exactly a week ago, I 0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:45.120 was in the Steve Jobs Theater at Apple Park for 0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:49.520 the new iPhone event and let's say hundreds thousands, hundreds 0:36:49.560 --> 0:36:52.960 of creators there. They all use different technology to make 0:36:53.000 --> 0:36:55.280 their content and they will publish it in different paces. 0:36:55.600 --> 0:36:58.600 But I just found myself thinking, like, what a crowded field? 0:36:59.200 --> 0:37:01.400 Do you get that sense that there are now just 0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:04.480 so many creators that the value is a bit of 0:37:04.480 --> 0:37:05.000 a question. 0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:09.480 You know, they're actually millions of creators with over a 0:37:09.520 --> 0:37:12.359 million followers, So as you think about those of consequence. Today, 0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:15.360 LTK works with three hundred thousand creators, and that's globally, 0:37:15.400 --> 0:37:16.520 about half of them. 0:37:16.520 --> 0:37:17.279 Are here in the US. 0:37:17.320 --> 0:37:20.400 We're working with professional creators, and really, for a brand today, 0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:22.560 they don't have to depend on looking at follower accounts 0:37:22.600 --> 0:37:24.960 or views to understand the influence of a creator. Then 0:37:25.040 --> 0:37:27.600 come to LTK and see what their community is actually doing, 0:37:27.680 --> 0:37:29.319 not just from top of funnel, but all the way 0:37:29.320 --> 0:37:32.920 through to actually purchase behavior, which is becoming increasingly important 0:37:32.960 --> 0:37:35.480 for these brands, especially in this economy. They're looking for 0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:37.759 ROI and those are the types of metrics that they need. 0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:39.960 What I love in what you're mentioning is actually the 0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:42.200 suite of tools that's required for a creator to do 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:44.960 their work does depend on the likes of Apple, and 0:37:45.000 --> 0:37:47.680 so that's been fuel to this whole industry. The fact 0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:49.520 that I have every tool that I need in my 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:52.640 pocket right now for free is incredible, and so we're 0:37:52.640 --> 0:37:55.600 really excited about the innovation that we're seeing from even 0:37:55.719 --> 0:37:56.920 the hardware in the industry. 0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:00.680 LTK President Amavn's books. Great to have you back here 0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:01.840 on Bloomberg Technology. 0:38:01.880 --> 0:38:02.359 Thank you. 0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:07.879 Now for a look at last night's Primetime Emmys. TV 0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:11.120 drama Showgun gave Disney the top Emmy for the first 0:38:11.160 --> 0:38:14.759 time in nineteen years. The show, film primarily in Japanese, 0:38:14.840 --> 0:38:17.200 set a record for the most wins by a single 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:20.440 show in one year, with eighteen across the Primetime Emmys 0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:23.879 and last week Creative Arts Awards, while HBO claimed Top 0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:27.359 Comedy with Hacks being out Hulu's The Bear, Disney earned 0:38:27.360 --> 0:38:30.879 the most awards of any entertainment company. Let's get more 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:33.400 and bring in bloombergs Lucas Shaw, who leads our screen 0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:36.560 time coverage and Late Sunday Night for you. Showgun for me, 0:38:36.680 --> 0:38:38.920 it's been one of the top of the year. But 0:38:38.960 --> 0:38:42.120 there's a success story for Disney in there as well. 0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:45.279 Yeah, I mean to put it in perspective, Barbeiger was 0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:48.040 both at the Emmys and then also at the Disney 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:51.480 after party. That is not something that he usually attends. 0:38:51.520 --> 0:38:53.239 I think he was there because he knew this was 0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:56.440 a big night for the company. You know, the winning 0:38:56.520 --> 0:38:59.239 poper Awards with the Oscars and Emmys hasn't historically been 0:38:59.360 --> 0:39:01.680 sort of a part of the Disney strategy. They're making 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:06.319 these big popcorn pictures, big commercial television shows based on 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:09.360 things like Marvel and Star Wars. But FX in particular 0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:11.399 just had a huge night. Even though The Bear didn't 0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:14.279 win Best Comedy Showgun and the Bear combined, I think 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:16.960 when twenty nine Awards, it was enough to make FX 0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:17.839 the top network on. 0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:19.720 Television, top network. 0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:23.000 You've been speaking with top leadership there as well. At 0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:25.400 the moment we've been done and Waldron, she was at 0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:29.080 your event last year as well, screen Time, and I'm 0:39:29.120 --> 0:39:31.359 just really interested in You've got this event coming up 0:39:31.719 --> 0:39:35.879 of course in la October ninth and tenth, we're all 0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:38.520 gonna be there, We're gonna be broadcasting live. Can you 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:40.279 just quickly tell us what we're gonna expect to said 0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:41.880 more about Disney's prowess. 0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:46.000 Sadly know Disney this year because they have an executive 0:39:46.080 --> 0:39:49.439 leadership retreat in Florida the same week as screen Time, 0:39:49.480 --> 0:39:51.640 but we'll have people from just about every other company, 0:39:51.640 --> 0:39:54.720 top leaders from Netflix and Amazon. We'll love the CEO 0:39:54.760 --> 0:39:57.799 of Comcast, We'll love the CEO of Live Nation. You know, 0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:01.279 some fun celebrities as well, Snoop Dogg, Harry Washington, and 0:40:01.440 --> 0:40:04.040 the creator of South Park among them. You know, we're 0:40:04.040 --> 0:40:07.120 going to be talking about just the crazy time this 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:10.120 is in the business of media and entertainment, you know, 0:40:10.280 --> 0:40:15.120 with companies merging, fighting and really unsure about the future 0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:16.839 of the key of their business. You know, you guys 0:40:16.840 --> 0:40:19.240 were talking about Apple. Apple at least knows what its businesses, 0:40:19.280 --> 0:40:20.880 makes a lot of money that way. A lot of 0:40:20.880 --> 0:40:23.200 these TV and movie companies are still trying to figure 0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:25.719 out this streaming thing still. 0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:29.200 One such drama is Disney and Direct TV. Right, Carrie, 0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:32.000 just fifteen seconds, Lucas, More dramas come. 0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:35.800 Definitely more carriage flights to come, but not for Disney 0:40:35.840 --> 0:40:36.760 in the near future. 0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:41.719 That was quick, Lucas Shaw, So on it. 0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:45.400 We Thank you up late on early for us and 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:48.040 Blombog screen time is happening October ninth and tent You 0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:51.200 do not want to miss it live with Lucashaw and 0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:52.560 a few helpful others. 0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:54.720 That does it. For this edition of Bloomberg Technology. 0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:57.800 They had Yeah what a frantic starts the week recap 0:40:57.800 --> 0:40:59.880 on the podcast. You know where to find it terminal 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:02.840 on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart online the team out in 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:05.120 New York City. Good morning from the team out here 0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:07.440 in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology.