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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace.

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Speaker 2: What happened to Graham McCormick, handsome, young, full of energy,

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Speaker 2: his life before him. How does he end up dead

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Speaker 2: with head injuries, floating in the water.

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Speaker 3: How did that happen? We want justice? How did it happen?

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Speaker 3: I think I know?

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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us here at sirius XM one eleven. Graham McCormick,

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Speaker 2: if you could look at his photo, you just see

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Speaker 2: life just brimming with them and vigor young, good looking,

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Speaker 2: col j educated, It's got the world by the tail?

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Speaker 2: How did this happen? First of all, take a listen

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Speaker 2: to our friends at w t v R.

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Speaker 4: They've never expressed any remore, so said they were sorry

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Speaker 4: or anything.

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Speaker 5: It's just a social sense of betrayal that my family feels.

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Speaker 6: The revelation came after Lancaster detectives discovered a Boston Whaler

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Speaker 6: boat at the Hooper home with a large amount of

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Speaker 6: damage that matched damage on the bulkhead where they found

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Speaker 6: Graham's body. Stop right when police charged rand and.

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Speaker 3: I want to start with where they found Graham's body.

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Speaker 6: Connection with Graham's death, That was only the beginning in

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Speaker 6: the McCormick family's four and a half year fight for justice.

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Speaker 7: So I've known Graham my whole life.

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Speaker 6: For more than four years.

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Speaker 8: Mackie Peebles has wondered what exactly happened the day his

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Speaker 8: friend Graham McCormick died in the Rappahannock River.

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Speaker 9: Everybody wants to know what really happened.

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Speaker 2: I want to know what really happened, But first of all,

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Speaker 2: who is Graham? Listen to our friends at crimeonline dot com.

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Speaker 10: Graham McCormick grew up in Richmond, Virginia. He was a

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Speaker 10: proud member of the Boy Scouts and became an Eagle

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Speaker 10: Scout before graduating from Douglas south All Freeman High School.

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Speaker 10: At Hampton Sydney College, McCormick continued to distinguish himself as

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Speaker 10: a member of Kappasigma fraternity with his two brothers. He

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Speaker 10: was also a past president of Cappisigma Fraternity and the

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Speaker 10: Enter Fraternity Council. As a loving son and big brother

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Speaker 10: who always put his family first, McCormick became especially close

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Speaker 10: to his younger brother Will when Will was diagnosed with

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Speaker 10: brain cancer and as hospice care was called to help

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Speaker 10: Graham McCormick became even more devoted to his terminal brother.

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Speaker 2: Everything that I've learned about Graham McCormick makes me wish

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Speaker 2: I had known him in life, and that I didn't

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Speaker 2: get to know him after his death.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 10: After college, Graham McCormick pursued his career in finance and

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Speaker 10: moved to Atlanta as a corporate finance analyst with SunTrust Bank.

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Speaker 10: Even though he lived did Atlanta, McCormick returned to the

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Speaker 10: Richmond area often to visit family and friends. It was

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Speaker 10: during one of his visits that Graham McCormick was hanging

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Speaker 10: out with his old friend Rand Hooper on the dock

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Speaker 10: of Hooper's parents river house on the Rappahannock River in

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Speaker 10: Lancaster County, Virginia. They relaxed on the dock and played

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Speaker 10: cards into the night, when, according to Rand Hooper, they

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Speaker 10: decided to call it a night with.

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Speaker 2: Me an all star panel to makes sense of what

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Speaker 2: we know right now. But first I want to go

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Speaker 2: to Burke McCormick. This is Graham's father joining us. Mister McCormick,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for being with us here at

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Tell me about your son.

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Speaker 5: He was absolutely a wonderful son, as honest as the

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Speaker 5: day is long, devoted to our family, well respected by

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Speaker 5: his friends. His friend's nickname for him was Grandpa gr

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Speaker 5: h a MPa because he was kind of a kind

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Speaker 5: of a father figure to a lot of his friends

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Speaker 5: and was a leader, and he was just the kindest,

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Speaker 5: most considerate, best older brother and son that anybody could

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Speaker 5: wish for.

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Speaker 2: Did I hear correctly that he was an Eagle Scout?

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Speaker 5: Yes, he was, along with his SCOO brothers.

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Speaker 7: Who also worked.

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Speaker 2: Can I tell you something if you're not in the

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Speaker 2: scouting world. I grew up in four h in a

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Speaker 2: very rural area, but now I'm a scout because both

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Speaker 2: my son and my daughter, they're twins, are working on Eagle.

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Speaker 2: Can I tell you how many years they've been working

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Speaker 2: on Eagle. They started working a long time in the

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Speaker 2: sixth grade. They're in the tenth grade now and they've

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Speaker 2: just finished their all the merit badges and all the

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Speaker 2: camping nights. It's years and year's process culminating in a

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Speaker 2: giant project that you do to help other people.

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Speaker 3: My son.

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Speaker 2: Is planning, mister McCormick, a water filtration system and he's

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Speaker 2: saving money now to go to Kenya with him and

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Speaker 2: his sister to implement the water purification system.

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Speaker 3: That's his project.

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Speaker 2: Person about animals, which is equally as impressive. And I'm

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Speaker 2: telling you, when you tell me that your son was

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Speaker 2: an eagle scout, that says a lot.

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Speaker 3: It really does.

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Speaker 2: I can't tell you how impressed I am that you

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Speaker 2: have raised a family like this, and it just I've

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Speaker 2: asked this questions so many times.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to throw this to.

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Speaker 2: Del Carson joining me, high profile lawyer out of the

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Speaker 2: Jacksonville jurisdiction.

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Speaker 3: Now what I like about him?

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Speaker 2: He's a former FED with the FBI, author of arrest

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Speaker 2: Proof yourself at del Carsonlaw dot com. Dale, you know,

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Speaker 2: I've talked about this so many times. I've prosecuted a

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Speaker 2: lot of cases. You've investigated a lot of cases as

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Speaker 2: an FBI agent. Why is it the very best people

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Speaker 2: on this earth they're the ones that become crime victims

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Speaker 2: get murdered, get mistreated.

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Speaker 3: Why is that? Why can't some I don't want it.

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Speaker 2: Happen to anybody, but why can't this happen to a

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Speaker 2: dope dealer standing outside in an elementary school?

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Speaker 3: Why? Why are there all these registered sex offenders. When good, decent,

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Speaker 3: wonderful people become victims.

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Speaker 7: It's because Graham is an individual who loved people, and

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Speaker 7: they draw to themselves people who are not worthy often

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Speaker 7: and certainly that was the case here. Although that took

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Speaker 7: a minute to figure that out.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you why it's getting me so upset

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Speaker 2: right now because something about him, not necessarily his looks.

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Speaker 3: But did your son have blue eyes?

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Speaker 2: Birk, Yes, that's what it was the first time I

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Speaker 2: looked at him in the It reminds me of my fiance, Keith.

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Speaker 3: It was murderred.

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Speaker 2: And when you think of somebody just hitting their stride,

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Speaker 2: getting out of high school, getting out of college, launching

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Speaker 2: an incredible career, but comes home and stays at home

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Speaker 2: to take care of his terminally ill brother, I mean

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Speaker 2: it's also with me. In addition to Burke and Dale

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Speaker 2: is Catherine McCormick. This is Graham's sister, Catherine. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for being with us. And I know I hate talking

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Speaker 2: about Keith's martyr, but I do it when I have

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Speaker 2: to tell me about your brother.

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Speaker 11: Kriam was like a second father figure to me. He

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Speaker 11: is seven years older than me, and he taught me

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Speaker 11: how to drive, taught me how to save money. He

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Speaker 11: really allowed me to grow into the person who I

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Speaker 11: am today. He pursued me to follow my dreams and

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Speaker 11: obtain my dream by the time I was twenty three,

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Speaker 11: and I really owe a lot of my accomplishments to him.

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Speaker 2: You know, you've got so much love in your voice,

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Speaker 2: Katherine McCormick. Gordon McCormick is with me. This is Graham's brother.

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Speaker 2: And think about it, all three of these family members

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Speaker 2: are here today with me on crime stories because they

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Speaker 2: want the truth, they want justice, and they love Graham. Gordon,

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Speaker 2: tell me about your brother.

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Speaker 9: Oh well, he was too good for this world. I

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Speaker 9: think I think you all pretty pretty well encapsulated it

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Speaker 9: when you said that, very very pure soul, and they

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Speaker 9: too often do, I think, attract the wrong type. But no,

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Speaker 9: for anyone who's familiar with the show Game of Thrones,

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Speaker 9: I mean, he was like the net Stark of people

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Speaker 9: on there. Just his character integrity was above approach and

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Speaker 9: he was the person that everybody could look to with

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Speaker 9: reverence to resolve mediate disagreements. And that's why he was

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Speaker 9: always kind of respected by everybody. I've never met a

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Speaker 9: single person who said who had one bad thing to

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Speaker 9: say about him, I'm going to tell you something more

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Speaker 9: than I can say for myself.

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Speaker 3: Michael Wise, me too.

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Speaker 2: You know, Burke McCormick a very well respected lawyer in

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Speaker 2: that jurisdiction there in Lancaster County, Virginia. I always thought

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Speaker 2: I knew it all about suffering and grieving when Keith,

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Speaker 2: my fiance, was killed shortly for our wedding. But when

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Speaker 2: I had the twins, that changed everything. Because there is.

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Speaker 3: No love like the love you have for your children.

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Speaker 3: There's just nothing. There's nothing like it.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever wake up in the morning and it

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Speaker 2: seems like maybe it was a bad dream, and then

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden you remember it's real.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I mean we had just lost Will eighteen months earlier,

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Speaker 5: and when we lost Graham, it was it was unbelievable.

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Speaker 5: And Will, you know, suffered for a long time and

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Speaker 5: we at least had a chance to say goodbye to him,

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Speaker 5: but Graham there was no saying goodbye, and it was

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Speaker 5: it was. It was just such a shock and a

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Speaker 5: terrible blow to lose not just one, but two two

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Speaker 5: children over the span of eighteen months. It's been very

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Speaker 5: hard in our family, but we've had the love and

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Speaker 5: support of the community and friends, and and that has

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Speaker 5: at least sustained me and I guess the others.

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Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: So we left off with Graham coming back home to visit.

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Speaker 2: He's with his friend there, hanging out on the dock

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Speaker 2: and playing cards into the When after they ate and

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Speaker 2: had a good time, according to the best friend Ran,

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Speaker 2: they decided to call it a night, but then everything

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Speaker 2: takes a bizarre twist. Listen to our friends at crime Online.

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Speaker 12: The next day, Sally Graham gets a text from Hooper

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Speaker 12: asking if she's heard from her son. If not, then

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Speaker 12: he is missing. Gram says her son was known for

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Speaker 12: his responsibility, as signified by his fraternity nickname Grandpa, a

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Speaker 12: reference to maturity. Graham asks about a search to find McCormick,

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Speaker 12: searching the water, checking with neighbors, checking in town, and more.

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Speaker 12: The answers he's not.

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Speaker 2: There, Okay, So they were just out on the dock

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Speaker 2: having they ate supper. They're sitting around I guess, playing cards,

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Speaker 2: having a good old time until he gets dark and

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Speaker 2: then they wake up.

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Speaker 3: And he's just gone. He mysteriously disappears. Take a listen

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Speaker 3: to Melissa Hippoleott wt v R.

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Speaker 6: Rand told that he, Graham and another man played cards

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Speaker 6: and drank on the dock of his parents river house,

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Speaker 6: and then they all went to bed. When Rand woke up,

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Speaker 6: Graham was nowhere to be found, and Rand speculated he

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Speaker 6: had gone out on the dock to call his girlfriend

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Speaker 6: and fallen into the water, or perhaps he had a

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Speaker 6: panic attack and went to the emergency room. He even

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Speaker 6: watched as Graham's mother used an oar to search the

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Speaker 6: water by the dock for her son.

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Speaker 3: Joining me right now is Melissa Hippolett.

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Speaker 2: You were just hearing her investigative reporter WTVR CBS. Melissa,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us shed some light on

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Speaker 2: this for me. Could you explain to me what John

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Speaker 2: Randolph rand Hopper said. What about a panic attack or

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Speaker 2: that possibly Graham went out on the dock to make

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Speaker 2: a phone call. Why would you go out on a

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Speaker 2: dock and the dead of night to make a phone call.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, your guess is as good as mine, Nancy, But

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Speaker 13: thanks for having me. He just, you know, shared a

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Speaker 13: variety of different stories, speculative stories with people about what

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Speaker 13: may have happened to Graham. You know, suggesting that I

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Speaker 13: guess he'd had maybe panic attacks in the past, and

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Speaker 13: he thought he may have had another one and gotten

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Speaker 13: himself to the emergency room, or that he had maybe

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Speaker 13: gone back outside to call his girlfriend and did that

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Speaker 13: on the dock, and perhaps he fell in the water

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Speaker 13: well out there at that time.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let me find out about these panic attacks. First

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Speaker 3: of all, what is a panic attack?

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Speaker 2: Doctor Jory Crawlson with me, very well known psychologist, former

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Speaker 2: law enforcement faculty, Saint Leo University, consultant and author of

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Speaker 2: Operation SOS.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Jory, what is a panic attack? Exactly?

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Speaker 14: Physically?

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Speaker 15: Speaking of panic attack is just like a heart attack. Okay,

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Speaker 15: it comes out of the paris sympathetics system. I've had

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Speaker 15: a heart attack and a panic attack and they're both

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Speaker 15: the same. Okay, so you're going to have that physiological response.

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Speaker 14: It's the panic.

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Speaker 3: You're of a panic attack, are you?

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Speaker 14: No? No, no no. But the panic attack comes out

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Speaker 14: of the parasympathetic that survival fight or flight syndrome, and

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Speaker 14: you have this sense of fear apprehension and.

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Speaker 15: You really don't understand why it is, but it's physically

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Speaker 15: affecting the respiratory system, your cardiovascular system, your mental process

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Speaker 15: of thinking. Okay, so panic attacks are you know, part

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Speaker 15: of the anxiety spectrum.

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Speaker 3: Well, if you can't think, how could you drive yourself

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Speaker 3: to a hospital?

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Speaker 2: How could you If you can't think, how could you think, Wow,

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Speaker 2: I'm having a panic attack.

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Speaker 3: I need to get in the car and drive myself

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Speaker 3: to the hospital.

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Speaker 14: People that have panic attacks, you know, they they know

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Speaker 14: they can sense them coming on, and they have you know,

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Speaker 14: like say, coping areas or coping skills. They've learned to

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Speaker 14: deal with it, like you know, it could be through breathing,

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Speaker 14: deep breathing, different things that they they learn over time.

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Speaker 14: There are medications that work real quick with that, like

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Speaker 14: the diazepan based you know, xanax. They placed that under the.

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Speaker 15: Tongue and within the five to six minutes that calms

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Speaker 15: that parasympathetic system physiologically and kind of gives them stability.

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Speaker 3: Let's get to the bottom of it.

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Speaker 2: You're hearing doctor Jory Crawls and Burt McCormick. Is Graham's dad.

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Speaker 2: Did Graham have panic attacks?

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Speaker 5: He had won the year before in Atlanta, So.

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Speaker 2: Let me understand he had had one panic attack one

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Speaker 2: year before. Okay, also with us as like Injuced earlier

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Speaker 2: Melissa Hippoleott.

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Speaker 3: So out of the blue, he goes missing.

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Speaker 2: Graham goes missing, last saying on the dot the night before,

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Speaker 2: and best friend says, maybe he had another panic attack

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Speaker 2: and drove himself to the hospital. But there was not

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Speaker 2: a car there for him to drive, and all the

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Speaker 2: cars that have been there we're still there.

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Speaker 3: So that doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 5: None of it made sense.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, and you know, just envision this time period. So

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Speaker 13: Graham's missing words starts spreading to Graham's family members, many

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Speaker 13: of whom we are on this call that he's missing.

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Speaker 13: Many of them are rushing to the river to try

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Speaker 13: to locate him. His mother shows up there, and I

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Speaker 13: believe in the testimony we heard it was actually Rand

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Speaker 13: himself who handed Sally McCormick the ore and suggested, maybe

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Speaker 13: you could search around the dock here for his body.

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Speaker 2: Oh my stars, handing a mother the ore to a

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Speaker 2: boat is saying, hey, why don't you dig around with

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Speaker 2: the ore and see if you can find your son's body.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly what happens. Listen.

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Speaker 12: Grand McCormick's disappearance isn't reported to police until around ten

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Speaker 12: thirty in the morning. When is this told police that

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Speaker 12: they were to their rooms. Just after midnight. Cormick's mother, father,

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Speaker 12: and brother drove from their home to the Hoopers home

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Speaker 12: as soon as they learned McCormick was missing. Graham checked

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Speaker 12: by the dock, using an ore to poke and prod

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Speaker 12: at the water. From there, Graham knocked on neighbors doors,

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Speaker 12: then returned to the Hoops. A few minutes later, the

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Speaker 12: neighbor told Graham a body had been found. McCormick's body

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Speaker 12: was found floating in Carter Creek off the Rappahannock River

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Speaker 12: in about an hour after the missing persons report was made.

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Speaker 12: The state Medical Examiner ruled that McCormick died from drowning.

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Speaker 12: Blunt forest trauma was a contributing factor in the death.

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Speaker 2: I go straight out to mart McCormick, who was there

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Speaker 2: trying to find his son, the family, using an ore

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Speaker 2: to feel down in the water around the dot to

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Speaker 2: find his body.

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Speaker 5: Burke what happened well, Gordon and I did not arrive

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Speaker 5: until after Graham's body had been found. Sally was there first,

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Speaker 5: and she was the one who was looking for Graham

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Speaker 5: and hoping against all hope that nothing had happened. Gordon

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Speaker 5: and I arrived just as the police rolled up and

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Speaker 5: notified everyone that they had found Graham.

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Speaker 7: Uh.

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Speaker 5: And we were of course devastated. UH And it was awful.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now is Captain Tim self, captain at

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Speaker 2: the Lancaster Sheriff's Office there in Virginia, who worked this case.

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Speaker 2: Captain self, Thank you for being with us. When did

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Speaker 2: you first get involved in the case.

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Speaker 5: I got to involved on that Monday morning at fourteenth

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Speaker 5: August the fourteenth.

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Speaker 3: What did you do?

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Speaker 5: Well, I'm was the chief investigator at the time, and

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Speaker 5: I review all reports that come into the office and

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Speaker 5: I signed them, signed the cases out to my detectives.

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Speaker 3: What what, if anything did you learn?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: When I reviewed this report and found out that the

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Speaker 5: body was recovered one point I believe, nine miles from

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Speaker 5: exactly where they said that he fell off the dock,

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Speaker 5: it's impossible. I found that was impossible for the way

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Speaker 5: the up and Cautis Creek for a body to float

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Speaker 5: that far in and out of several different inlets to

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Speaker 5: get to the rock jetty. It was impossible for a

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Speaker 5: body to land up there that quick.

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Speaker 2: Why do you say it was impossible for his body

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Speaker 2: to land there that quickly.

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Speaker 5: Because within of time the body was reported located and

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Speaker 5: the time to report, and with the time period that

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Speaker 5: ran said he fell overboard, possibly fell overboard because he

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Speaker 5: was on the phone, it didn't match. There's no way

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Speaker 5: a body can float that far if if it falls

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Speaker 5: off that dock, and we videoed to creaked to prove

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Speaker 5: that he would have got hung up in shorelines or

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Speaker 5: a shallow water the way it's curved, the curve of

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Speaker 5: the creek to get to where the body was.

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Speaker 2: Did you describe the water for me? Was it marshy?

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Speaker 2: You're saying endless? Would the body have had to take

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Speaker 2: twists and turns? And yes, absolutely, yeah, no way that happened.

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Speaker 2: Graham going missing was not reported until ten thirty the

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Speaker 2: following morning. The family race to the scene, start dipping

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Speaker 2: down into the water with oars to find their beloved son,

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Speaker 2: their brother, running door to door, knocking on doors, and

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Speaker 2: then they learn Graham's body. As how far away, Melissa

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Speaker 2: Hippolett two miles here?

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Speaker 16: I think there was one point nine miles correct, that's correct,

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Speaker 16: one point nine miles away.

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Two, doctor Jan Gorniac joining us now, she's a renowned

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Speaker 2: pathologist and former medical examiner for Clark County.

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Speaker 3: If you don't know, that's Vegas, and.

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Speaker 2: There's certainly never a lack of business for the medical

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Speaker 2: examiners there. Doctor Gorniac, what do you make of Graham's injuries?

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Speaker 3: How did he die from a blow to the head.

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Speaker 3: Shouldn't it have been drowning if he fell off the dog?

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Speaker 3: What do you make of it?

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Speaker 17: From what I've read and what i've you know from

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Speaker 17: the medical examiner's report that it's obviously he didn't go

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Speaker 17: straight into the water. He has contusions which your bruises

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Speaker 17: and abrasion scrape about his head, but he didn't have

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Speaker 17: enough head injury to have caused his death. So the

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Speaker 17: head injuries could have been a contributing factor, as in

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Speaker 17: he might have had a concussion, the head trauma might

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Speaker 17: have he might have been passed out, so therefore he's

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Speaker 17: unresponsive in the water. So ultimately he dies of drowning

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Speaker 17: because he couldn't rescue himself out of the water.

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Speaker 3: So the cod was drowning, correct, That.

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Speaker 17: Is correct with other conditioned the head trauma. So when

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Speaker 17: you have on a death certificate, the main cold or

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Speaker 17: cause of death is drowning, but other conditions stands for

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Speaker 17: conditions that contribute it to the death but are not

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Speaker 17: the cause. So the head trauma contributed to his death

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Speaker 17: because obviously he couldn't self rescue himself out of the water.

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Speaker 17: I'm not sure if he was a good swimmer or not,

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Speaker 17: but it seemed like it was late at night or

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Speaker 17: early morning, and then it's starks. You get this orient it.

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Speaker 17: So even if he didn't pass out from the head trauma,

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Speaker 17: he would have been you know, you get your bell

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Speaker 17: rung so to say.

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Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you this much, Dodger Gorniac, I

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Speaker 2: take it you are not an eagle scout because you

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Speaker 2: have to I know this by heart. You have to

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Speaker 2: pass a swimming merit Madge and I stood there and

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Speaker 2: watched both of my twins swim. I forgot how far

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Speaker 2: they had to swim.

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Speaker 3: A really long way.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't have made it, but they did it. So

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Speaker 2: I can guarantee you this guy knew how to swim.

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Speaker 17: He knew how to swim sock away.

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Speaker 18: Why didn't he save himself because of the blood of

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Speaker 18: the head, Like I said, so, the blow of the

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Speaker 18: head could have guiden him like knocked out, you know

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Speaker 18: a little bit, or just meet him disoriented.

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Speaker 17: Yeah, I don't know. If you ever pitch your head

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Speaker 17: or fall down the stairs, you're like, where the heck

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Speaker 17: am I? You know what I mean? So you get confused.

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Speaker 17: He's disoriented, it's dark. And I've been taught, you know,

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Speaker 17: in drowning, because you know, people can drown in shallow

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Speaker 17: water because they say that your instinct is to use

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Speaker 17: your arms. So there could have been a point that

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Speaker 17: he was trying to rescue himself and he got exhausted

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Speaker 17: so and he just couldn't self rescue. Unfortunately, there's many

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Speaker 17: factors in drowning. Once, like you said, he has head trauma.

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Speaker 17: It's late at night, Like I said, he just could

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Speaker 17: not rescue himself out of the water.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I don't really know what happened, because I can

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Speaker 2: tell you this much. I agree with Captain timself in

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Speaker 2: the Sheriff's office that body did not end up two

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Speaker 2: miles away with a story that he fell off the

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Speaker 2: dock talking on the phone.

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Speaker 7: Yes, Nancy, I've handled quite a number of autopsies as

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Speaker 7: law enforcement's presence in the emmy, and I will simply

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Speaker 7: tell you when I live in an area like the

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Speaker 7: captain does, but there's a lot of water, so I

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Speaker 7: have seen a number of deaths over the decades. The

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Speaker 7: fact is that not only did the body probably end

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Speaker 7: up close to where it fell into the water, but

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Speaker 7: also the fact that there as I've read in part

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Speaker 7: of the news reporting that there was foam in his mouth.

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Speaker 7: The fact that he's floating so quickly after falling in

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Speaker 7: the water tells me his long full of water and

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Speaker 7: that he was alive for a period of time after

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Speaker 7: he saw the war.

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Speaker 2: But then a bizarre twist, stories began to change.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 12: Three days after the initial visit to the home, Lancaster

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00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 12: Sheriff's detectives bought a damage to the boat. The Virginia

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00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 12: Department of Game and Inland Fisheries reconstructed a crash and

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Speaker 12: determined the boat had been involved in an accident. John

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Speaker 12: Hooper told investigators that he remembers getting the boat off

436
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Speaker 12: the bulkhead after it crashed. He says he had no

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Speaker 12: memory of who was driving. Hooper is initially charged with

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Speaker 12: the misdemeanor count of failing to make a timely report

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Speaker 12: of the boat accident.

440
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: What now, I got so many things colliding in my

441
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: head number one, misdemeanor with the dead body. Okay, that's wrong,

442
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: that's wrong. But what about his story? This is the

443
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: best friend John Randolph rand Hopper. What about the story

444
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: that I was asleep?

445
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: I don't know what happened. He probably talked on the

446
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 3: phone on the dock in the middle of that I

447
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 3: and fell off.

448
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 2: Then this beautiful son and brother's body is found two

449
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: miles away with blows to the head. Yeah, none of

450
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: that fits together. Now he changes his story only after

451
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 2: sheriffs find damage to the boat.

452
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 3: Okay, Melissa Hippott.

453
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: Sounds like he changes his story after the damage is

454
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: found to the boat.

455
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 13: Yeah, And I just wanted to reiterate the fact that

456
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 13: Captain Self and his colleagues found the damage to the

457
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 13: boat three days after the body was found. But then

458
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 13: it wasn't until twenty five days later that rand Hooper

459
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 13: comes into the department and shares a new story. Isn't

460
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 13: that correct, Captain Self?

461
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 5: That is correct? And listen took him.

462
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 2: Twenty five more days to come in. Okay, Melissa Hippolott,

463
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: thank you. I didn't know a twenty five day period

464
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 2: passed while Graham's parents twisted the wind, wondering what happened.

465
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 2: Captain timm self joining us from Lancaster Sheriffs in Virginia.

466
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: Tell me about you guys finding the damage to the boat.

467
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: And this boat is the boat of the friend rand Hopper.

468
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 5: That's correct. What happened on that fourteenth when I reviewed

469
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 5: a report, when I saw that the body was recover

470
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 5: one point nine miles away, and me knowing I've been

471
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 5: raised on that creek all but since I was a boy,

472
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 5: I knew that was impossible. So I when the report

473
00:27:55,240 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 5: came through, had written up as a drowning accidental, and

474
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 5: I grabbed my crew. I said, no, we're going to

475
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 5: the house.

476
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: What made you It must have been just all the

477
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: years you've been in LA law enforcement.

478
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 3: What makes you say no, We're not going to the scene.

479
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 3: We're not going to the river. We're going to the house.

480
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 5: I figured since that Monday that they would still be

481
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 5: at the house. And when I loaded the crew, I mean,

482
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 5: we went there and there was a cleaning company cleaning windows,

483
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 5: cleaning the house and all that, which throwed a red

484
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 5: flag up for me then, which probably didn't protein.

485
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: Why did that.

486
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 2: Throw up a red flag that they were having the

487
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: house professionally cleaned.

488
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 5: Well, you know, you treat every case as a homicide,

489
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 5: not a missing person or unattended to death. We treat

490
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 5: every case as a homicide, as everyone should, because you

491
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 5: never know the circumstances. It's behind it.

492
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 3: So you go to the house and what happens.

493
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 5: Go to the house cleaning crews there the cleaning the house,

494
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 5: and we knock on the door and Gary Hooper approached

495
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 5: us to the front yard, and I was understanding that

496
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 5: you were that he was, you know, out of the

497
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 5: country in Africa, and that another flag went up on

498
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 5: how quick you could get a flight to get home

499
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 5: in a day. That was baffling to me.

500
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: Now, who is this? Is this the friend John Randolph

501
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: Randhopper's dad. Yes, okay, so he suddenly flies home from Africa.

502
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 5: Okay, flies home for Africa within I believe Melissa would

503
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 5: know that also that I think he got a flight

504
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 5: home and he was home within a day and a half.

505
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 5: When I rode up, we got to the host and

506
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 5: stuff and explained to him that, you know, could we

507
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 5: see you know, the dock area where it possibly fell

508
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 5: off the dock. He was very cooperative, he said absolutely

509
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 5: before we went in and I looked and I could

510
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 5: see that he had outside cameras. The cameras were on

511
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 5: the house. Also on the garage there was a camera

512
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 5: that was pointing down to the dock. So I asked

513
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 5: him about the camera system and he said that he

514
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 5: had a camera system and it all was worked off

515
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 5: of his phone through an apse. So I said, great,

516
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 5: I says, anyway we can get that. He says, I

517
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 5: can get all the cameras except for the one on

518
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 5: the garage. And fortunately the one on the garage is pointing.

519
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 7: At the dock.

520
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 5: So what we Yeah, what a coincidence? Yeah, So then

521
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 5: we go in. He carries us in the house. So

522
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 5: we go down to where where Graham was staying in

523
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 5: the room and saw as you know, where the room

524
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 5: he was at in the door. And then as we're

525
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 5: going down to the dock, I could see that there

526
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 5: was a couple of lights that were knocked over, as

527
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 5: you know, somebody had bumped them or hit them or whatever,

528
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 5: which we found out what that was from. So we

529
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 5: go down, walk down to the dock and we get

530
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 5: on the dock and start looking and we were told

531
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 5: the first day that Friday that the boat used was

532
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 5: the little I believe sixteen foot or fifteen foot Boston

533
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 5: Whaler that was on the left side of the dock.

534
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 5: That that's what they used to go creek riding and all.

535
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 5: That was the only boat that they used. And then

536
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 5: go down to the end of the dock and I

537
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 5: see wine glasses that's broken under the bench that's at

538
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 5: the end of the dock. So when I've been down

539
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 5: to pick the glass up, and I questioned Garrett, but

540
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 5: he said, I guess they were drinking out heady drink

541
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 5: all the time. They leave a glass as they fall

542
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 5: over and they break. So as I turned and I said, i'

543
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 5: about this boat, and he says, that's that's that's my boat.

544
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 5: And I looked and I could see damage to the

545
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 5: lower unit, and so I questioned the lower unit damage

546
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 5: and he said, oh, no, that happens. We pull up

547
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 5: to a beach and it gets damaged. And I looked

548
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 5: at that damage and I said, no, this is fresh damage.

549
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: Wait, how did you know that, captain experience?

550
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 5: But I've on a boat too again for thirty years,

551
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 5: and I know what it's like if you hit something.

552
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 5: And I pulled my boat up on a beach like

553
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 5: every other sunday in the Caratomen and I don't get

554
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 5: any damage to my lower unit. And then when I

555
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 5: bent over to look at the lower unit, I seen

556
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 5: on the stiring of the boat on the right side,

557
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 5: just in front of the trim pat.

558
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 3: I want to analyze what you just said. When you

559
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 3: pulled up on a beach, you don't get damaged to

560
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 3: your boat. People pull up on beaches all the time.

561
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 2: It's sand, it's she that's not going to damage your

562
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: boat unless you pull up on rocks.

563
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 5: Well, and I think he was saying it was a

564
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 5: rocky spot there to where he pulls up, but the

565
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 5: rocket spot in order for that lower unit in the back,

566
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 5: that boat would have bottomed dope before it hit the beach.

567
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 5: So it shouldn't have you know, he wouldn't have tored

568
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 5: the motor the lower unit up like that. It was

569
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 5: actually bent and the prop was was damaged heavily.

570
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: And so this is the father talking to you, the

571
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: father of the friend rand.

572
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 5: Hopper, right, Yes, the father.

573
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: And he said he caused that damage to the boat

574
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 2: pulling up on a beach.

575
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 5: He said that the damage that he's had damage when

576
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 5: he hit up on a beach before prior to with

577
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 5: the frop and I told him not that much damage.

578
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 5: And when I bend over and I looked under the

579
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 5: bay of the boat and there was fresh fiberglass peeled

580
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 5: off the staning bottom of that boat. And he been

581
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 5: down looked and I said, that didn't happen at the

582
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 5: beach and he says, no, you're right, And that was

583
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 5: pretty much into the conversation. And then while I'm looking

584
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 5: at the at the stand of the boat, Detective so

585
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 5: Andson is a standing at the bow of the boat.

586
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 5: It's on the lift on a two motor lifts that's

587
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 5: raised up above the dock and he looks he said, Lieutenant,

588
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 5: you might want to come up here. So I climbed

589
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 5: on the lift, got down and then there was holes

590
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 5: in the fiberglass on the bow of the boat. So

591
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 5: that's when at that time I photographed it. And then

592
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 5: I asked Gary if we could have the boat and

593
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 5: he said absolutely. He said, but I gotta get a

594
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 5: trailer straight because my trailer needs repair before you can

595
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 5: pull it pull it up. And I said okay. He said,

596
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 5: if you give me tell lamarrow, I'll get this done well.

597
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 5: So we photographed that and looked around there, and then

598
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 5: we left. And then the next day I got to

599
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 5: call that if I wanted the boat. He's not released

600
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 5: a boat, per his attorney. So then that's what well wall.

601
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: Wait, So first of all, they say you can have

602
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: the boat, and that's without a search. Want you see it,

603
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 2: And of course that's perfectly legal because any person walking

604
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: by can see it, so a cop can see it too,

605
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: a sheriff like you can see it. But then to

606
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: take the boat somewhere and examine it forensically, you know,

607
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 2: looking for our particles of rock or even blood. You'd

608
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 2: want to warrant for that unless they handed it over.

609
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 2: So he says, yeah, you can take it, but then

610
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: the next day you can't take it.

611
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 5: Yes, I was. I was informed by the attorney advised

612
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 5: that they're not releasing the boat. So that's when we

613
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 5: obtained the search one.

614
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: Okay, well I don't get it.

615
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: Bert McCormick, this is M's dad who was also and

616
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 2: a lawyer. You're gonna they're gonna get the boat, whether

617
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: it's with a warrant or with permission. And that is

618
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: a huge red flag when they wouldn't hand over the boat.

619
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 5: Absolutely right, Yeah, we knew it was going to happen,

620
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 5: And I'd like to go back to one thing, if

621
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 5: you don't mind about the cell phone the cell service

622
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 5: that he were saying that he went down to the

623
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 5: dock because there's no cell service there. Right, Only a

624
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 5: few people know that because there He's exactly right, there

625
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 5: is no cell phone service there at that location. All

626
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 5: that was, in my opinion, was another red flag because

627
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 5: he knew that it was no cell phone service. So

628
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 5: it's a good store. Hey, he left out of the

629
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 5: house to go down to the end of the dock

630
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 5: to get cell phone service so it could cover the

631
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 5: store that they went. They went on the boat because

632
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 5: he there was no cell service there.

633
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 3: Okay, Then what happened Captain?

634
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 5: So then I wanted we wanted to I wanted to

635
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 5: go to where the body was located.

636
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: So we I mean, with the boat, you get a warrant,

637
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 2: you get the boat anyway, and where do you take it?

638
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 5: Well, we brought it to the Sheriff's office, and then

639
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 5: we took it to Jack's Marine and Burgess so that

640
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 5: he could put it over that overhead lift so that

641
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 5: the forensic examination could be done.

642
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: Okay, and did the forensic exam take place. Yes it did,

643
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: and what if anything did they learn?

644
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 5: They learned that the boat had large damage to the undercarriage,

645
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 5: the bow under and the motor.

646
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 2: You did not get that from pulling up on a

647
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: sandy beach. Okay, then what did you do now?

648
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 5: So then we I wanted to go to to where

649
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 5: the body was found. And when we went over there

650
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 5: to that point, we started looking around and I walked

651
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 5: up to the boat bulkhead, and the bulkhead it's it's

652
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 5: top layered with salt treated trim like a two by

653
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 5: twelve or two by ten, and then it's a fiberglass

654
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 5: bulk wall that was all damaged, so and perfect to

655
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 5: look at where that had been damaged to it. It

656
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 5: was right there. If the boat come off the bulkhead

657
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 5: and went around and hit those jetties, the body was

658
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 5: laying right there. And then you could see fiberglass where

659
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 5: it jumped the jetty. And there was an old piling

660
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 5: that was over on the opposite left side of the

661
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 5: jetty where the boat had to jump the jetty to

662
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 5: get back into the channel where the body was located,

663
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 5: and there was fiberglass on a piling which was recovered

664
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 5: and that was also centative for forensic lab, for analysts.

665
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: You know what, to the McCormick family, you better hope

666
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: this captain gets re elected again, because if he had

667
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: not gone out and they found that fiberglass evidence at

668
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: the scene of the crash, you may never have gotten justice.

669
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: Did you know that.

670
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 5: Burt McCormick absolutely did, Nancy, And we feel so lucky

671
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 5: because if kept himself and his team hadn't pursued this doggedly,

672
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 5: this would have been swept under the rug. If Graham's

673
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 5: body had not been found, he might have floated out

674
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 5: into Chesapeake Bay been found.

675
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: You just actually, you just gave me chills all up

676
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 2: and down my arms. Thinking people that have children out there,

677
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: thinking of your child floating around never found out in

678
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 2: the Chesapeake Bay is not something you want to think about.

679
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 2: And it was no coincidence that Captain self found. That

680
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: is because he went out there and he searched and

681
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: he knew what to look for, and he saved you

682
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 2: and your family, you and Gordon and Catherine, Graham's mother

683
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 2: from the pain. I've never knowing what happened, but I

684
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 2: want you to hear more of what Melissa Hippolott has

685
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: to say in our cut, I thought.

686
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 5: Rand Hooper was a close family friend.

687
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 6: But twenty five days after detectives recovered Graham's body, his

688
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 6: family received some shocking news. Rand had just told detectives

689
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 6: in the Lancaster County Sheriff's office that he and Graham

690
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 6: took a boat ride in the early morning hours of

691
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 6: August eleventh in twenty seventeen. Hooper said he could not

692
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 6: remember who was driving the boat, but he remembered the

693
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 6: boat hitting something hard, turning the boat's engine off, calling

694
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,919
Speaker 6: out for Graham, and when he didn't see or hear him,

695
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 6: he figured his friend was a good swimmer and could

696
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 6: make it to sure, got his bearing straight to the

697
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 6: tides in and then remembered nothing after that.

698
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't think that's the whole story, Burt McCormick,

699
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: because he stood by and let the mom frantically search

700
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 2: with an oar off the dock, he knew all along

701
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: what had happened.

702
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 5: Of course he did, Nancy. He came that night, went

703
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 5: to bed, got up the next morning and made tea

704
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 5: times for everybody, pretended that he didn't know where Graham was,

705
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 5: and when there was a report that a body had

706
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 5: been found floating in the creek. People who are there

707
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 5: set His eyes got as big as saucers, so he

708
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 5: knew he had been found out. He had hoped that

709
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 5: we'd never find Graham and that he would just act

710
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 5: like nothing had happened. And his you know, it just

711
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 5: was tostickable.

712
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: I've got to hear that again. Hold on, hold on

713
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: the level deception. I mean, when I try to tell

714
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 2: a lie, I feel hot all over. I can't look

715
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: anybody in the face. And then I think about it

716
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 2: afterwards and it actually makes my stomach hurt, and I'm

717
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 2: sure I'm going to get caught, and I always do

718
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 2: get caught. Melissa Hiplett, what happened? How did the friend?

719
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 2: How did he act? Rand Hopper?

720
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 13: The next day, He'll recall he was, you know, setting

721
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 13: up tea times. He was sharing stories of what he

722
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 13: believed to go out.

723
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 3: And play golf. He was on the phones. Okay again.

724
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 5: He made a tea time the next morning at the

725
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 5: Indian Creek Country Club for Graham and he and others

726
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 5: to play.

727
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 3: Including Graham. Yes, okay, I need a shrink and I

728
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 3: need one fast. Doctor Jory crawsing, you wake up.

729
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 2: The next morning, you have coffee and you start making

730
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: tea times for golf at some country club when the

731
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 2: night before you know d a r and well that

732
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 2: your friend in best case scenario got hit in the

733
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 2: head and fell in the water and drowned, and you're

734
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: covering it up and you're planning to go play golf

735
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 2: and pretending he's gonna join.

736
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 5: What is that it was all part of the cover up.

737
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's I'm for a loss of words as a psychologist,

738
00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 14: but to try to decipher what he was thinking is

739
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 14: like next impossible.

740
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 15: I mean I could see, you know, disassociating all that stuff.

741
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 15: But this is his best friend. I mean, you know,

742
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 15: they know, best friends are like closer than family, you know,

743
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 15: And to do this, yeah, I mean I'm really at

744
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 15: a loss of words for it. It's pure evil. I mean, see,

745
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 15: isn't it true?

746
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 2: Catherine McCormick, This is Graham's sister that rand Hopper actually

747
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 2: spoke at your brother's funeral.

748
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 11: Yes, so Graham was actually buried before his funeral service,

749
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 11: My brother Gordon and I lowered his remains into the

750
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 11: ground and a very emotional, intimate setting with close friends

751
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 11: and family and as our family was leaving the burial

752
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 11: site to go up to the parish hall to get

753
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 11: ready to recess into the church. The first person who

754
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 11: met me at the top of the step was Rand

755
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 11: and his girlfriend Willis. Rand held me, he hugged me,

756
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 11: and he whispered in my ear and said everything is

757
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 11: going to be okay. Just moments before I delivered a

758
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 11: very tearful eulogy in front of hundreds and hundreds of people.

759
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 11: He was the only reader who read at the funeral

760
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 11: that was not a close family member.

761
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: Gordon McCormick. This is Graham's brother. Is that how you

762
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 3: remember it?

763
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 9: Yes, Yes, that is how I remember it. And I

764
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 9: also got reports from other friends who were acting as

765
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 9: ushers that he was very kiddish and kind of like

766
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 9: pale white and sweaty, and seemed very nervous before the

767
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 9: service began. And I wanted to point out one other thing.

768
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 9: Captain Self, correct me if I'm wrong. But when the

769
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 9: police first showed up and took their initial report, didn't

770
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 9: Rand tell tell you tell your guys that Graham was

771
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 9: a drug addict.

772
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 5: I believe it.

773
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 9: I believe it is that sent my mother into, uh,

774
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 9: basically a fit of rage. Where she had to fight

775
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 9: the courts to try to get that removed from the

776
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 9: from like, because I think that was included in his autopsy,

777
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 9: and unfortunately the court was not able to remove it.

778
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 9: I don't think from the from the report they could

779
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 9: only add an asterisk saying according to the accused basically,

780
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 9: but yeah, that that goes to show. Graham, of course,

781
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 9: as you've already learned, was the opposite of a drug addict.

782
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 9: He was the guy who would try to prevent somebody

783
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 9: from from taking drugs.

784
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 2: So you had to know right then that he was

785
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: hiding something. That would be just like if somebody told me, Jackie,

786
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: my my longtime friend and producer is a drug addict.

787
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 2: No way, that's not true. And whoever says that is lying.

788
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 2: So I got to figure out why are they lying?

789
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: Oh I bet your mom did a backflip when she heard.

790
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 3: Him say her Eagle Scout baby boy was a drug addict.

791
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 3: They had to know, so he was lying then, right.

792
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 5: We didn't know anything about Rand's dark past, Nancy, including

793
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 5: the twenty eleven incident where he shot someone that Melissa

794
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 5: has reported on, and I don't believe ram knew anything

795
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 5: about this either. Rand was very good at concealing these dark,

796
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 5: dark things, and as I say, it was just such

797
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 5: a betrayal of my person we thought was a good

798
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 5: family friend, Barton.

799
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 3: Do you remember him reading at your son's funeral?

800
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 5: Absolutely, we asked him because we thought he was Graham's

801
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 5: friend and we thought he was grieving along with us.

802
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 5: And my wife went up to him before the funeral

803
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 5: and said, you can't blame yourself for what happened. And

804
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 5: when she found out the truth about what happened, she

805
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 5: was just livid because she felt like an idiot for

806
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 5: saying something like that. And Rand's parents kept coming up

807
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 5: to me at the funeral and hugging me, and three

808
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 5: or four times.

809
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 3: Oh, the same parents who wouldn't let you have the boat. Yeah,

810
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 3: well they can get their hugs. Take a list to

811
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 3: the prison crime online.

812
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 12: It would be three years before Rand Hooper would face

813
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 12: additional charges in grammccormick's death. Initially, Hooper was charged with

814
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 12: a misdemeanor count of failing to make a timely report

815
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 12: of the vote accident. Those charges were upgraded to involuntary

816
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 12: manslaughter with a proposed deal of just one year in prison,

817
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 12: but a special prosecutor determined that more charges were appropriate,

818
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 12: as Hooper was accused of operating his vote while intoxicated,

819
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 12: leading to a crash that killed McCormick. Hooper was arrested

820
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 12: in charge with felony murder, involuntary manslaughter while under the influence,

821
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 12: operating a watercraft, and failure to stop and assist with

822
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,479
Speaker 12: serious injury or death.

823
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 2: Well, that's a Hippolott hold on just a moment, investigative

824
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 2: reporter WTVR. They were going to let him have one year,

825
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 2: which turns out to be maybe three months.

826
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 3: Is what that really means on a misdemeanor.

827
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 13: What Yeah, so initially and have himself can speak to

828
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 13: this a little bit more. But there was the initial

829
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 13: misdemeanor charge. I think they were gathering evidence, and you

830
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 13: know then they were finally able to get the involuntary

831
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 13: manslaughter charge.

832
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,919
Speaker 2: But why they have to bring in a special prosecutor?

833
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 13: Okay, So there was the commonwealth attorney at the time,

834
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 13: This is like the local district attorney who was responsible

835
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 13: for representing gra McCormick's family, who said, you know what,

836
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 13: we're going to broker a plea agreement with Rand Hooper

837
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 13: and his lawyers. They met they've discussed this and in

838
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 13: exchange for a guilty plea, he will serve one year

839
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 13: behind bars.

840
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 2: Burke McCormick one year, which, as we all know, you

841
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: get one year in the county jail, probably out in

842
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 2: two or three months.

843
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 3: One year.

844
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 5: What this commonwealth's attorney was incompetent? He's now been, He

845
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 5: lost reelection and is no longer a member of the

846
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 5: Virginia Bar. His license was suspended and over his conduct

847
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 5: in this case. Wow, we were not getting justice. And

848
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 5: this is a whole other story about us not getting justice.

849
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 5: This prosecutor would not have he wouldn't have done anything

850
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 5: if we didn't push him constantly.

851
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 2: He was not going to do anything a rcal prosecutor.

852
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 5: He wouldn't bring one in. We begged him to bring

853
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 5: a help him, to help him prosecute, and he refused

854
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 5: because he thought it would look bad for his reelection.

855
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 5: Oh right about that.

856
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 3: That reelection didn't work out very well for him. Take

857
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 3: a listener cut six TV and.

858
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 9: A half years ago. When things went.

859
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 4: Sideways, I felt alone, I felt abandoned. I felt like

860
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 4: my family was well kind of left out in the cold,

861
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 4: and I prayed and asked for I asked God for warriors.

862
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 5: This case has had more twists and turns than a

863
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 5: Bob sled run.

864
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,479
Speaker 6: From twenty seventeen until now, the mccormicks endured a plea

865
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 6: deal thrown out by a judge, much a prosecutor who

866
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 6: had his law license suspended, another prosecutor who was removed

867
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 6: from the case, knew more serious charges and COVID delays.

868
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 12: I've spent the majority of my twenties waiting for justice.

869
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 3: For my brother, and finally, I believe God did intervene

870
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 3: on behalf of Graham McCormick's family. Listen.

871
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 6: On Thursday, their long wait finally came to an end

872
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 6: when in Norfolk jury found rand Hooper guilty of involuntary

873
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 6: manslaughter and failure to stop and render assistance in a

874
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 6: voting crash.

875
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 3: The judge revoked his.

876
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 4: Bot once I saw that the handcuffs go on, That's

877
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 4: when it became real, and that's when I felt like

878
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 4: it was.

879
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 9: Time to turn the page and I got my life back.

880
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 6: Next up in this case, the judge will determine rand

881
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 6: Hooper's sentence now. During the prosecution of this case, they

882
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 6: were not allowed to bring up rand Hooper's prior record

883
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 6: of DUIs as well the time that he shot his

884
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 6: friend while drunk in the fan district. But during the

885
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 6: sentencing phase, the judge can consider those things.

886
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 2: You're hearing, Melissa Hippott, you're hearing what the judge cans

887
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: consider in sentencing. But first, can we just take a

888
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 2: moment and say pt L. After all the family went

889
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 2: through that there is a guilty verdict, but what about sentencing.

890
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 3: Listen for the.

891
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 8: First time we heard from Rand Hooper just before the

892
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 8: judge gave him his sentence.

893
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 3: He said that.

894
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 6: Grand McCormick was one of the greatest people he had

895
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 6: ever met, and he said.

896
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 8: The safety of everyone at his parents' riverhouse that day

897
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 8: was his responsibility and for that he was sorry.

898
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 6: Gordon McCormick says he believes his brother's former friend, Rand Hooper,

899
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 6: finally understands that actions have consequences.

900
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 4: I can hear something in his voice that he should

901
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 4: have said what he said five years ago.

902
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 6: Judge Charles Posting sentenced Hooper to six years behind bars

903
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 6: for driving a boat well drunk, crashing it into a bulkhead,

904
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 6: which threw Graham McCormick out of the boat, and then

905
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 6: leaving without trying to find his friend who ended up dying.

906
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 2: Well, I have to tell the McCormick family that I

907
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: believe they were entirely wrong. I think he said what

908
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 2: he felt he had to say to get a redeced

909
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 2: sentence because guess what he is now appealing Listen.

910
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 8: Rand Hooper's lawyer submitted a motion last week requesting a

911
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 8: sentence reduction. A judge sentenced him to six years behind

912
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:34,479
Speaker 8: bars in May.

913
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 3: Now, in his.

914
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 8: Motion, Coolly says the boat involved in the crash that

915
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 8: resulted in Graham McCormick's death was recently released from the

916
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 8: sheriff's office. He claims the boat did not have nearly

917
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 8: as much damage as the prosecution claimed it had during

918
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 8: the trial. He argues the boat's damage shows no indication

919
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 8: of who was driving the boat at the time of

920
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 8: the crash, and rehighlighted his argument that he made during

921
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 8: the trial that there was no oh evidence that rand

922
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 8: Hooper was driving the boat at the time of the crash,

923
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 8: therefore he could not be held responsible for Graham McCormick's death.

924
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 2: Okay, does it never end with rand Hooper Burt McCormick.

925
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 5: This canord about who was driving the boat has been

926
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 5: repeated even up through the appeal and it's so ridiculous.

927
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 5: The commonalist attorneys who prosecuted this case did a brilliant

928
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 5: job of showing how the physics so that Graham was

929
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 5: ejected from the boat while Rand held on. And it's

930
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 5: been rejected by every judge in court that has heard

931
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 5: they argument. But that's all they have to talk about

932
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 5: is there's no proof that Rand was driving the boat,

933
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 5: and that's absurd.

934
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 3: Who else could have been driving the boat beside him?

935
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 5: He claimed Graham was, And there's absolutely zero evidence to

936
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 5: suggest that Graham did it. Graham wouldn't even drive a

937
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 5: golf cart at somebody else's golf club. He would not

938
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 5: have been driving a boat even during the day, and

939
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 5: much less it might. And the Court of Appeals, in

940
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 5: its opinion did a masterful job of showing how absurd

941
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 5: that argument was.

942
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 2: Well said, I got a question, how can we be

943
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 2: sure that that is how Graham McCormick got the blows

944
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 2: to the head. How do we know he got blows

945
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 2: to the head from being ejected from the boat?

946
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 13: The expert testimony that was given from the typical examiner

947
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 13: that provides that information.

948
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 2: So let me ask the McCormick family. The appeal has

949
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 2: been denied, but you know, on a six year sentence,

950
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 2: he will probably be out in two years.

951
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:39,760
Speaker 7: Maybe four years.

952
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 5: The projected release date is January twenty twenty six.

953
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 3: But that's what we think. But what do you make

954
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 3: of that, Catherine?

955
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 11: It does make me very uncomfortable. We had to live

956
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 11: in Rishmond with him for five years before we even

957
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:58,919
Speaker 11: went to trial. I ran into him at the vet

958
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 11: when I took my new puppy and to see for

959
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 11: his first appointment. So thinking of him walking free makes

960
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 11: me feel very unsafe. But I am glad that we

961
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 11: were able to get justice.

962
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 9: What about it, Gordon McCormick, Well, I think, uh, you know,

963
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 9: we we did. We need what we needed to do.

964
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 9: We we got. We got closure and justice in the

965
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 9: form of a conviction. And as we uh said from

966
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 9: the get go, we weren't really too concerned with the

967
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 9: final outcome of the Senate and we really just wanted

968
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 9: the truth. And you know, we're only covering half the

969
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 9: story here. The other half courses my dad called the

970
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 9: prosecutor and competent, But the truth is he was corrupt.

971
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 9: He actually had I believe a criminal history before we

972
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 9: took off was that's the story.

973
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:46,399
Speaker 7: For another time.

974
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 9: But having to fight that that character, and I mean

975
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 9: the stuff that he said in our private meetings to

976
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 9: my mother I can't repeat here because they're so profane that,

977
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 9: you know, defeating him, that was Catharsis in and of itself.

978
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 2: I made any prosecutor speak to the victim's mother that way.

979
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 5: Bert McCormick, the first prosecutor we had, was awful. He

980
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 5: was so unprofessional and as an attorney, I was embarrassed

981
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 5: for this legal system that my family had to see

982
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 5: such an unprofessional and incompetent commonweal's attorney. But we were

983
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 5: periless to do anything. Under Virginia law. Only the voters

984
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 5: could remove him. The Attorney General had no power to intervene,

985
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 5: and fortunately the voters in twenty nineteen did remove him.

986
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:39,760
Speaker 5: But it was just such an awful experience. So that's

987
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 5: really the second track of the story was that justice

988
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 5: was delayed, but eventually we did get justice. If back

989
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 5: in the we would have been very happy to take

990
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 5: a four year prison sentence here in the twenty nineteen

991
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 5: pleat deal, but that wasn't even on the table. So

992
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 5: although we would have liked to see him in jail

993
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 5: for longer four years. We would have been very happy

994
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 5: with that at the beginning.

995
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 9: If I can jump back in here, the scene in

996
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 9: back in Junior of twenty nineteen when we went into

997
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 9: for that plea deal to be accepted was almost identical

998
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,879
Speaker 9: to the scene you had here a month or two

999
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 9: back with a Hunter Biden when he went in for

1000
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 9: his plea deal. Exact same circumstances where there was an

1001
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 9: agreement between the prosecutor and the defendant. They thought it

1002
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 9: was a done deal, and then the judge said, hold

1003
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 9: on a minute, I don't think so. So that that

1004
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 9: was a very dramatic twist to the whole situation itself.

1005
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,399
Speaker 9: And there's three different judges were involved at four different prosecutors.

1006
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 9: So this thing was a good cop, bad cop everything.

1007
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 9: I mean, I wouldn't call Joan sit the cop. He's

1008
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 9: just more of a con man, but you know, a

1009
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 9: politician type.

1010
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 5: But yeah, the second judge when he rejected the plea

1011
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 5: deal and he said that that rand had a cold

1012
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 5: and malignant heart. Jan Smith, the prosecutor, had already been

1013
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 5: defeated for real elections, because this was in December of

1014
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 5: twenty nineteen and the election was in November. He had

1015
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 5: twelve days left in office, and after the judge rejected

1016
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 5: the plea deal, John Smith, behind everyone's back, went back

1017
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 5: with the defense lawyers, knowing he had twelve days left

1018
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 5: in office, and he entered the exact same plea deal.

1019
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 5: So when the new prosecutor took office in January, he

1020
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 5: was stunned to find out about it, and he had

1021
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 5: to work to have the plea deal set aside.

1022
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 2: After years and years of waiting, finally the truth about

1023
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: the death of Graham McCormick.

1024
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 3: The guys