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Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

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Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

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Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in.

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Speaker 1: A brid egg Frida egg, Frida egg, Frida eggag bride

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Speaker 1: egg lie.

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Speaker 3: I'm about ready to run off the golf. Welcome back

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Speaker 3: to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode

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Speaker 3: is a big one, obviously, if you have not heard,

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Speaker 3: the U s g A and the RNA has released

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Speaker 3: news about a potential new golf ball that would be

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Speaker 3: used by high level tournament players men's high level tournament players.

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Speaker 3: So we break this down. This has obviously been a

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Speaker 3: long process. We've had number of podcasts about the prospect

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Speaker 3: of this and they've moved to the next kind of

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Speaker 3: chapter of it. So for this pod, we did something

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Speaker 3: a little special. I wanted to get a variety of

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Speaker 3: insights from a different angles of who this would impact.

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Speaker 3: So for this podcast, I talked with Tom Doak about

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Speaker 3: the architecture angle. I talked with Roberto Castro, a retired

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Speaker 3: PGA Tour player, about how this would impact the PGA

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Speaker 3: Tour and PGA Tour players, and then I also spoke

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Speaker 3: with Joseph LaMagna about the impact on golf course strategy.

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Speaker 3: He obviously contributes for the Frieda Egg, writes in Club

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Speaker 3: TF and in the newsletter, as well as appears on

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Speaker 3: the podcast pretty regularly. He does on the side, he

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Speaker 3: also does consulting for PGA Tour players where he helps

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Speaker 3: them break down strategy. So we talked about that, and

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Speaker 3: then Garrett and I are going to be on this

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Speaker 3: podcast in a minute here kind of just talking about

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Speaker 3: the basics of it and our general takes. So you're

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Speaker 3: gonna get a lot of different perspectives in this podcast

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Speaker 3: on different angles of it. It's obviously a massive topic

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Speaker 3: and will impact the game. Really, you know, I think

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Speaker 3: this is the way a lot of regulation works. Like

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Speaker 3: you implement it and you're not really sure you know

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Speaker 3: one thing that is going to address, but it causes

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Speaker 3: a lot of different ripples throughout the industry. So that's

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Speaker 3: what we tried to do with this podcast was give

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Speaker 3: you a little bit of an encompassing look at how

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Speaker 3: it impacts, you know, directly impacts a few big things.

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Speaker 3: So excited that this happened. As a quick reminder, you know,

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Speaker 3: one of the things if you're a Frida Egg newsletter subscriber,

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Speaker 3: you saw this week was that we have a whole

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Speaker 3: new spring line in the Pro Shop. If you want

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Speaker 3: to support the Frida Egg, this great way to do it.

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Speaker 3: Meg Atkins has really got some great stuff. She did

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Speaker 3: an awesome job stocking the shop. I myself had to

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Speaker 3: ask ask for a couple of things because they really

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Speaker 3: caught my eye. I thought they're awesome and some of

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Speaker 3: the best stuff that we've ever had in the pro Shop.

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Speaker 3: If you want to check that out, it's pro Shop

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Speaker 3: dot Thefrida Egg dot com. Lots of hats, layers, some

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Speaker 3: new golf shirts, some stuff that's geared towards the first

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Speaker 3: major for both the Frida Egg and the Shotgun Start,

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Speaker 3: which if you're looking for more on this potential rollback

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Speaker 3: for the for the tour professionals, check out the Shotgun Start.

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Speaker 3: We had a long discussion about that as well as

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Speaker 3: this podcast that you're already listening to. So without further ado,

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Speaker 3: here is the podcast all about rollback again. Here's me

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Speaker 3: and Garrett and then it will be followed by Tom Doak,

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Speaker 3: Joseph Lamannia and Roberto Castro. Thank you and here you

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Speaker 3: got all right, Garrett, Big big golf news this week

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Speaker 3: obviously the UH, the golf world has quickly divided itself

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Speaker 3: into different camps.

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Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of people in the middle

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Speaker 4: that are just the silent, silent middle class.

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Speaker 1: And enjoying the fight, watching the fight.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I would. I'd love to hear kind of your

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Speaker 4: top level thoughts about the USGA's announcement UH with the

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Speaker 4: with the regulations to the potential regulations the ball. Really

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Speaker 4: they're in a comment period, so the regulations the ball are,

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Speaker 4: you know, they're kind of collecting feedback and you know,

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Speaker 4: we'll see, we'll learn more later this fall.

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Speaker 1: Let me try to lay things out here. I think

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Speaker 1: people should know first of all, what a model local

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Speaker 1: rule is, because that is the key to this whole

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Speaker 1: discussion and to analyzing the entire situation. So a model

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Speaker 1: local rule is optional. The USGA is going to create

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Speaker 1: this rule, put it out there, and different organizations, tours,

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Speaker 1: different entities in the golf world can adopt it if

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Speaker 1: they want to. And this model local rule will essentially give,

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Speaker 1: as the USGA puts it, give competition organizers the option

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Speaker 1: to require use of golf balls that are tested under

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Speaker 1: modified launch conditions to address the impacts of hitting distance

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Speaker 1: in golf, and this golf ball would be essentially tested

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Speaker 1: at a higher club head speed then balls are currently

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Speaker 1: tested at and will have to go the same distance,

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Speaker 1: so the ball will fly shorter than the current ball.

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Speaker 4: And one quick thing here that this is very important

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Speaker 4: for everybody to understand. The longer players are still going

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Speaker 4: to be longer. The shorter players are still going to

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Speaker 4: be shorter. So it does not move. It does not

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Speaker 4: remove somebody from swinging higher than the testing speed at

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Speaker 4: one twenty seven and hitting it further than their three

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Speaker 4: hundred and seventeen yards. If you swing at one thirty five,

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Speaker 4: it will go further than the high end of their

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Speaker 4: testing range.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 4: So it's important to understand that there's not there's not

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Speaker 4: like a ceiling on how far you can hit the

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Speaker 4: golf ball.

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Speaker 1: They are just it's not going to hit an invisible

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Speaker 1: wall at three hundred and seventeen yards and drop out

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Speaker 1: of the air exactly.

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Speaker 3: So it is a it is that's just what it's

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Speaker 3: being test at, tested at, which then scales all the

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Speaker 3: distances down roughly between five and ten percent.

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Speaker 1: Right, And so what the USGA is saying is that

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Speaker 1: the longest players will lose fourteen to fifteen yards in

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Speaker 1: driving distance. Now there's been some dispute over that. Some

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Speaker 1: people are saying it might be more like twenty yards,

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Speaker 1: but we don't really know yet until we see the ball,

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Speaker 1: and this model local rule won't be available until January first,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six at the earliest, so we've got some

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Speaker 1: time here. But I just wanted to clarify that upfront

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Speaker 1: because I've been tracking the discussion in a number of

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Speaker 1: different venues and I feel like a misunderstanding of the

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Speaker 1: model local rule and how it actually operates is at

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Speaker 1: the core of a lot of people's concerns about this.

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Speaker 1: Because it really doesn't need to affect any particular organization

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Speaker 1: that doesn't want to buy into it. The USGA and

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Speaker 1: RNA have passed the buck to other entities in the

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Speaker 1: golf world and said, if you want, for whatever reason

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Speaker 1: to adopt a reduced flight ball, then you can start

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Speaker 1: to do that using this model local rule. Now, I

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Speaker 1: think that their play is more complicated than that, and

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Speaker 1: that's kind of what I want to get into. Do

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Speaker 1: you want to get into that, like the kind of

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Speaker 1: the strategy that's probably being used by the governing bodies here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I think you know, from my perspective, this

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Speaker 3: is this was strategically the correct play for the USGA.

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Speaker 3: They are the.

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Speaker 4: Governing body they aren't in the USGA are the governing

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Speaker 4: bodies of the game of golf. But they also do

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Speaker 4: a lot more than governess. And I think that's where

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Speaker 4: it was tricky. Like if the only thing they did

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Speaker 4: was was create rules and protect the game, you know,

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Speaker 4: I think we would have had something in place a

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Speaker 4: long time ago. But you know, the tricky thing with

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Speaker 4: the USBA as they've grown as an organization is they

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Speaker 4: do a lot more and they you know, I think

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Speaker 4: they are I hate the word grow the game, but

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Speaker 4: they are vitally involved with growing the game of golf.

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Speaker 4: And I think you know, from this standpoint, when you

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Speaker 4: look at the rule, the idea of it applying a

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Speaker 4: model local rule that can be applied to the high

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Speaker 4: end of golf, that is an attempt to not have

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Speaker 4: the pr hit of like you're trying to make golf harder.

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Speaker 4: If you went with a ruling that said we're gonna take,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna make we're gonna take yardage away from everybody,

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Speaker 4: there would be a lot of backlash of like, wait,

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Speaker 4: golf's having this moment, and you're gonna make it harder,

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Speaker 4: even though I don't even believe that it would be

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Speaker 4: harder if you if everybody played this equipment, I don't

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Speaker 4: think if you if if.

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Speaker 1: Just find the right t's, chill out, find the right teas,

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't be that much harder. And most amateurs if

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Speaker 1: they played a reduced flight ball, if you just like

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Speaker 1: snuck one into their bag in place of the pro

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Speaker 1: v one x or whatever they have in there and

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Speaker 1: had them play it, I bet they'd play. Most amateurs

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Speaker 1: would play eighteen holes and not even notice a difference.

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Speaker 4: So at the core of this, I think the the

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Speaker 4: choice to make it a what people are calling bifurcation,

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Speaker 4: which is the model local rule. So you could theoretically

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Speaker 4: all of men's professional golf, and theoretically is an important

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Speaker 4: title here because we don't know if the PGA Tour

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Speaker 4: or the PGA Championship will accept this. But like, theoretically

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Speaker 4: all of men's professional golf can play a different ball

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Speaker 4: than the regular, you know golfer, the weekend golfer, and

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Speaker 4: they from a marketing standpoint, are not taking away things

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Speaker 4: from the person that needs all the help they can get.

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Speaker 4: What they are trying to do is really you know,

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Speaker 4: what this all is about, for the most part, is

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Speaker 4: professional golf. But I don't agree that it's just a

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Speaker 4: professional golf problem. I think this is a problem across.

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Speaker 1: Golf, and I think that the governing bodies acknowledge that.

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Speaker 1: And that is the complexity here that I'd like to

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Speaker 1: get into is the governing body's awareness that distance gains

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Speaker 1: are a problem not just at the elite competitive level,

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Speaker 1: but all over the place in golf. Regular local courses

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Speaker 1: have had to lengthen over the past several decades because

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Speaker 1: everybody has gained distance, and especially like the top five

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Speaker 1: percent of the longest amateur players have gained just as

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Speaker 1: much distance as the pros have. Right, if you have

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifteen miles per hour of clubhead speed,

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Speaker 1: you can be a five handicap. I've played with five

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Speaker 1: handicaps who have that much clubhead speed, and you're going

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Speaker 1: to be hitting it just as far as the pros do.

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Speaker 1: You might not know where it's going. But they're a

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Speaker 1: problem at normal courses as well. And you know what,

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Speaker 1: the USGA and R and I have done a lot

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Speaker 1: of research in the past several years looking into exactly

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Speaker 1: that problem, and so I think the intention here is

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Speaker 1: eventually to have an effect beyond the elite competitive level.

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Speaker 1: But I want to get into the strategic and pr

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Speaker 1: play that they're doing here, because you're right that a

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Speaker 1: big thing that Mike Wan and Martin Slumber, the CEOs

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Speaker 1: of the USGA and the RNA, are saying right now

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Speaker 1: is that this will not affect the recreational golf level.

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Speaker 1: We've gotten feedback in the past year that nobody wants

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Speaker 1: the recreational game to be negatively affected, and so this rule,

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Speaker 1: this model local rule, is intended for high level competitions.

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Speaker 1: That is what they're saying right now. But that goes

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Speaker 1: against the research that they've done recently, that they've spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of money doing discovering that the distance problem

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Speaker 1: in golf is not just a professional golf problem, it's

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Speaker 1: not just a PGA tour problem. It is a problem

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Speaker 1: all over the place, and it's an issue for the

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Speaker 1: sustainability of the game. And so I think that what

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Speaker 1: they're trying to do here is introduce this model local

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Speaker 1: rule to some championships like the US Open and the Open.

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Speaker 1: I think they probably figure that the Masters is going

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Speaker 1: to implement the ball because Augusta National Golf Club has

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Speaker 1: been you know, has had to spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: money expanding its course, and its leaders do seem open

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Speaker 1: to implementing a new ball. And so that's three majors

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Speaker 1: right there. That's three very powerful tournaments in golf. And

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Speaker 1: so if they adopt the model local rule, is that

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Speaker 1: going to have a kind of trickle down effect throughout

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Speaker 1: the game where different tours, including the PGA Tour, as

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Speaker 1: well as other institutions like state championships, like various amateur

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Speaker 1: championships like the NCAA, like your local club championship. Is

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Speaker 1: there going to be a trickle down effect where all

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Speaker 1: of those different kinds of tournaments and competitive environments will say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, three of the biggest tournaments in golf are

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Speaker 1: using the model local rule ball. So I guess we better.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you want to qualify for the US Open,

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Speaker 1: if you want to go to your local qualifier and

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Speaker 1: try to get into the US Open, you've got to

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Speaker 1: learn how to use the reduced flight ball. So I

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Speaker 1: guess we might as well start playing ball at the

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Speaker 1: local level at our courses and I think that their

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Speaker 1: hope is that this ball will eventually make its way

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Speaker 1: into the recreational game that we play on an everyday basis,

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Speaker 1: but they can't say that because people are scared of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you hit on exactly what I've been

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Speaker 3: thinking about the last twenty four hours and why this

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Speaker 3: was the right way to approach this, because you know,

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Speaker 3: we talked about like the marketing headache, but when I

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Speaker 3: think about how this could infiltrate the overarching game, it

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Speaker 3: is through the competitive golf landscape at the amateur level.

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Speaker 3: So you know, the idea of you know, I used

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Speaker 3: to play competitive golf. I haven't in the last five

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Speaker 3: years because I've been busy. But you know, the thing

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Speaker 3: about it is like what you play that competitive golf

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Speaker 3: at a state level, and this is like as a

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Speaker 3: mid am, right, is like I would play it. I

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Speaker 3: try and play the US Open, I try and play

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Speaker 3: the US AM, I try and play the US Midam.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like their goal is to have this ball

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Speaker 3: be used at the US Midam. So all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm one of the best players at a club,

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Speaker 3: I am going to be probably using this ball predominantly

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Speaker 3: this is the ball that I'm going to use, and

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Speaker 3: that's going to have a trickle down effect into the

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Speaker 3: group that I'm playing with, and that's going to just

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Speaker 3: continue to push out. The same thing goes for like

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Speaker 3: if you have a kid that's a growing, that's a golfer,

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Speaker 3: that's you know, that's really good, they're aspiring to play

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Speaker 3: the US Junior. It sounds like this is going to

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Speaker 3: be tied into the US Junior. Maybe not the first year,

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Speaker 3: but quickly after. So if your kids wants to play

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Speaker 3: the US Junior, that's the pinnacle of golf. Like the

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Speaker 3: Western Junior, the US Junior, those are the pinnacles of

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Speaker 3: junior golf. You know what's probably going to be The

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Speaker 3: Western Golf Association is probably going to follow the USGA.

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Speaker 3: You know, they're historic organizations. So all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: if your kid wants to, you know, compete at the

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Speaker 3: highest level, they're going to start to use this golf

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Speaker 3: ball and so on and so forth.

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Speaker 2: The amateur level. The same thing. Now where I find

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Speaker 2: where all this the wrench comes.

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Speaker 3: In is if the tour says we are not doing that,

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Speaker 3: and I think that that that is a it's it's

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Speaker 3: interesting they obviously have the power to do it.

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Speaker 2: But the thing about it is, I think it's a.

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Speaker 3: Really bad marketing play by them if they do it,

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Speaker 3: because it's saying, hey, we don't want to play these rules.

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Speaker 3: We'd prefer to have the game dulled down, especially, you know,

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Speaker 3: it would be super weird after we watch people play

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Speaker 3: Augusta National and have to hit a wide ray shots

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Speaker 3: and even accentuate the product difference that we see, Like

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Speaker 3: we watch Augustin and it's like, God, I wish every

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Speaker 3: week of golf was like this, and then have that

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Speaker 3: accentuated by like, oh, we're gonna see these guys hit

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Speaker 3: more shots and the best golf course and the way

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Speaker 3: you know that they play year in, year out, and

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Speaker 3: then they're going to go to Harbortown, a tiny little

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Speaker 3: course with a souped up golf ball.

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Speaker 2: It's going to further.

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Speaker 3: Like there's a running joke that the tour is almost

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Speaker 3: like WWE is to wrestling as to what major championship

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Speaker 3: golf is with like the TiO relief, they get the

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Speaker 3: favorable rulings, the lift clean in place, if they refuse

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Speaker 3: to accept the equipment stuff, it's just going to accentuate

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Speaker 3: that fact that, like you know, the PGA Tour doesn't

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Speaker 3: play the same golf that you play.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think the players are going to want

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Speaker 1: to go back and forth the play. What do the

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Speaker 1: players on the PGA Tour care about. They care about

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Speaker 1: the majors. Specifically, they care about the Masters, the US Open,

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Speaker 1: and the Open Championship. Those are the three tournaments they

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Speaker 1: care the most about. The PGA Championship, we don't really

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Speaker 1: know what's going on with PGA of America, but we've

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Speaker 1: heard rumblings that they're not stoked about the model local rule.

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Speaker 1: But I think that the Masters, the US Open, and

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Speaker 1: in the Open hold a lot of cards here and

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Speaker 1: that what we see is a bit of a game

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Speaker 1: of chicken going on between the PGA Tour and those

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Speaker 1: three majors, because I think that the PGA Tour knows

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Speaker 1: that if the top three majors implement this ball, that

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Speaker 1: they're probably going to have to follow suit. I think

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Speaker 1: that they know that they don't quite have the clout

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Speaker 1: to stand up against those three majors and say to

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Speaker 1: the players, you have to play one ball on our tour,

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Speaker 1: or you get to play one ball on our tour

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Speaker 1: and then you're going to have to switch for the

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Speaker 1: most important tournaments of the year. I honestly don't think

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Speaker 1: that most players are going to go for that, and

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Speaker 1: that what most players would want is for the PGA

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Speaker 1: Tour to pressure the USGA and RNA in this comment

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Speaker 1: period to drop this idea. I think that's why you're

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Speaker 1: seeing so many tour players come out so strongly against it.

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Speaker 1: Right We've seen Justin Thomas speak out, We've seen Keegan

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Speaker 1: Bradley open his mouth, We've seen Charlie Hoffman go on

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Speaker 1: PGA Tour Radio. We've seen a lot of guys come

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Speaker 1: out really aggressively against this, and I think the reason

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Speaker 1: for that is that their preferred situation would be if

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Speaker 1: this idea just went away. But I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: going to go away. And I think that once the

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Speaker 1: most important major start to use this model local rule,

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Speaker 1: that the PGA Tour is going to be in a

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Speaker 1: really tough spot because it's going to seem like they're

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Speaker 1: not playing real golf and their players are not going

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Speaker 1: to want to switch back and forth and you know,

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Speaker 1: play a ball that they're not used to for their

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Speaker 1: most important events of the year.

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Speaker 3: I you know, and This is the thing is, I

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Speaker 3: don't think it's going to be that big of an adjustment.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's kicking and screaming right now about it, but the

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Speaker 3: reality is is like it's going to be a little

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Speaker 3: bit of adjustment. But they aren't taking They aren't changing

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Speaker 3: all the clubs either, you know, like and I think

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Speaker 3: that's like one of the things if we wanted to

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Speaker 3: talk about what we wish they would have done, and

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Speaker 3: I understand why they couldn't get there, and maybe this

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Speaker 3: is the first regulation that pushes the ability to say, hey,

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Speaker 3: this isn't all that bad that we change. But you know,

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Speaker 3: so the one thing with the tour is if they

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Speaker 3: go to this, if they stick with their ball and

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Speaker 3: they don't go to this, like who's going to play

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Speaker 3: the week before the Masters, Who's who is? Those tournaments

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Speaker 3: are just going to be wiped off the schedule, right,

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Speaker 3: Like nobody's playing the week before the Masters or the

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Speaker 3: or the week before the US Open or the week

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Speaker 3: before the Open and not playing with the tournament ball.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, they're they're they're gonna have at least I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: they're the best players in the world. They should be

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Speaker 1: able to make this adjustment. But if they're going back

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Speaker 1: and forth, they'll need a little bit of time to

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Speaker 1: dial things in and get their yardages and and make

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Speaker 1: sure that everything's, you know, in line for a big,

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Speaker 1: important tournament. I think you're right that the week before

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Speaker 1: a major, if they have to adjust to a different ball,

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Speaker 1: they're probably gonna have to spend some time optimizing that ball.

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Speaker 3: I think we both agree that this politically was a

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Speaker 3: smart and strategically a pretty smart move by the by

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Speaker 3: the usg the way they've rolled this out, I think

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Speaker 3: that I would say that, if I summed up, both

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Speaker 3: of us were a little disappointed, Like in an ideal world,

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Speaker 3: you'd see this across all of golf.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean that was my first reaction. I wish

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Speaker 1: this were a universal rollback, and I still feel that way,

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Speaker 1: But I understand the political maneuver a little bit better

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Speaker 1: now than I did when the announcement was made. But

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Speaker 1: you know, a year ago, they were looking at doing

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Speaker 1: a model local role for the driver and doing a

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Speaker 1: universal rollback for the ball, and I'm a little bit

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Speaker 1: disappointed that that hasn't stayed that way, that we're no

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Speaker 1: longer looking at the driver and that we're no longer

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Speaker 1: looking at the idea of a universal rollback for the ball.

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Speaker 1: It seems like the governing bodies have seeded the point

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Speaker 1: that a rollback of the amateur's ball would be bad

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Speaker 1: for the recreational game, when I don't think that's the case.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that they should admit that point that

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Speaker 1: a shorter ball is necessary worse or less fun or

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Speaker 1: somehow unattractive for recreational players, because I just don't see

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Speaker 1: it that way at all.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've I've kind of played golf with a

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Speaker 3: self imposed rollback for the last year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you have, so for those that I've.

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Speaker 3: Talked a little bit about this on this podcast, But

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Speaker 3: I play with a persimon driver titleist PT three Wood

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventies Blade Irons, and.

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Speaker 1: You're you're you're such a woke andy look at you,

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Speaker 1: I such a frankly.

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Speaker 3: Frankly, what happened was like my my ten year old

399
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 3: clubs they broke and I just haven't got I haven't

400
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 3: found the time to go get new ones from from

401
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Speaker 3: Club Champion, and like I just haven't gone.

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Speaker 2: Like that's literally why this has happened.

403
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Speaker 3: I've like had like great joy playing the game at

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Speaker 3: a smaller scale.

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Speaker 2: And We've heard this this word used before, but.

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Speaker 3: I've had like incredible amount of fun playing golf courses

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00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: and not bludgeting them with a driver and a wedge

408
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Speaker 3: like I've I think I've gotten I think like I

409
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 3: haven't played modern equipment, but like I think when I

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Speaker 3: play it the next time, it's going to be like WHOA,

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Speaker 3: Like I've gotten a lot better over the last year

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Speaker 3: because I've had to like work on different things, Like

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Speaker 3: I've had longer approach shots into greens all for a year,

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Speaker 3: you know. I just like my short game is better

415
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Speaker 3: because I've missed a lot more greens. And that's I

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Speaker 3: think the interesting thing about this when you talk about,

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Speaker 3: you know, the tour is like and be recreational golf.

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Speaker 3: The recreational golf takeaway is like I have done this.

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Speaker 3: I've I think that's it's probably been pretty close to

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Speaker 3: the yardage number that I've taken away from myself, and I've.

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Speaker 2: Really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 3: I have not like I you know, there are times

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Speaker 3: when it's soft and I'm playing with people with modern

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00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 3: equipment that I get a little frustrated. But for the

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Speaker 3: most part, I've really never been like you know what,

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Speaker 3: this sucks that I don't have I can't hit it

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Speaker 3: twenty five thirty yards further.

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Speaker 2: This this is terrible.

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Speaker 3: I will say also, like for the professional game, for

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Speaker 3: people that are saying like, oh, power players are going

431
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 3: to be so much more advantage because this is going

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Speaker 3: to hurt shorter players more. I don't think so, because,

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Speaker 3: like if you're not hitting wedges all the time, golf

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Speaker 3: becomes a.

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00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: Lot harder for the power players.

436
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 3: Like, what needs to be looked at, It's not just

437
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 3: like the strokes gain difference off the tee. What needs

438
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 3: to then be looked at is like, how is the

439
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 3: individual player from one fifty versus one twenty five? So

440
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 3: look at that one twenty five versus the one fifty number.

441
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 3: But also the player, the shorter player, say they go

442
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 3: from one seventy five to two hundred. What's the difference there?

443
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: Right? Is there a huge difference?

444
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: And you know, different players, it's going to be different things,

445
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 3: like certain players are going to be better at that

446
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 3: around the green I think is going to be more

447
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 3: emphasized because of this.

448
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that it should be seen rollbacks should

449
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: be seen less as a deficiency, less as taking something

450
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: away and more as sort of changing the nature of

451
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: the game that you play. And for some people it

452
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: will be a disadvantage. Let's be honest. If you play

453
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: from the same tees and you rely on a certain

454
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: amount of distance off the tee and you have less distance,

455
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: then yeah, you're going to be hitting longer clubs. But

456
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: for other people it might be good for them to

457
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: have tighter dispersion, the tighter dispersion of a shorter drive.

458
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: You know, I think that it's just more complex than

459
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: saying roll back is a disadvantage to recreational golfers or

460
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: something that makes the game more difficult, because I just

461
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: don't think it would feel that way in reality. And

462
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: part of this comes from my memories of playing golf

463
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 1: before the four hundred and sixty cc driver. You know,

464
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: I was young, but I did play golf in the nineties,

465
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: and guess what, it was just as fun then as

466
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: it is now. It wasn't that big of a deal

467
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: to me that my three would was sometimes easier to

468
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: hit off the tee than the driver. That was fine.

469
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: That was a feature of the game, you know, And

470
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: we played with spinnier balls that traveled a shorter distance.

471
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: The game was still incredibly fun. It was still the

472
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: greatest game I had ever played in my life. And

473
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: so anyway, that's that's my take on that. Now we

474
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: should get to the guests that you have lined up,

475
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: because people, we could talk forever about this, and I'm

476
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: sure we'll talk more about it in the future. But

477
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: who's next up on the docket?

478
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 5: Here?

479
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 2: We got Tom Doak first.

480
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 3: He will be up and he obviously has some interesting

481
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 3: thoughts on architecture and how this applies to his job.

482
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 2: Then we have Roberto Castro.

483
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 3: I wanted to have somebody on that was very connected

484
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 3: to the PGA Tour game, but maybe not like right

485
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: in it right now. So they have a little bit,

486
00:26:58,560 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 3: you know, it's one of those can you see the

487
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 3: force through the trees type situation. And then Joseph Lamannia

488
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: to talk about strategy. We got into it a little bit,

489
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 3: but he has some more thoughts on how golf will

490
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 3: change if there's fifteen to twenty yard reduction in drivers.

491
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go to it.

492
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 3: Now. For a quick word from our sponsor, which is

493
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 3: Club TFE. This is the membership for the Fried Egg.

494
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: One of the things that I made a very conscious

495
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: decision when I started this company seven years ago was

496
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: that we would not be taking money from equipment sponsors

497
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 3: that wanted our voice to be, Hey, buy this club,

498
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 3: use this ball, it's the best, because it's something that

499
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 3: I just didn't believe it. I believe that there is

500
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 3: no best ball, there's a best ball for you, there's

501
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 3: a best club for you. But also I believe that,

502
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 3: you know, the game had kind of gotten a little

503
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 3: out of balance and that a you know, regulation was

504
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: probably needed. And you know, I never wanted a company

505
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: that financially supported us to have a role in how

506
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 3: we talked about the game. So you know, obviously that

507
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 3: is a big revenue source for most media companies in golf,

508
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 3: and that's not a revenue source for us. One of

509
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: the ways that we support our staff continue to grow

510
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 3: and continue to improve the content we put out is

511
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 3: through Club TFE, which also happens to be a way

512
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 3: for you to feed fuel your golf addiction. We are

513
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: posting daily articles Monday through Friday in Club TFE. Every Wednesday,

514
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 3: we have a detailed course review right up with a rating.

515
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: We have a monthly member video. We have a monthly

516
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 3: hangout which is kind of just like a live podcast,

517
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 3: and we have a lot more early event access discounts

518
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 3: to the pro shop. It is something that we're excited about.

519
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 3: We want to continue to build and grow and it

520
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 3: is a awesome probably the best way for you to

521
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 3: support the Frida Egg and what we do here. So

522
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: if you're interested in the membership, if you want to

523
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 3: check it out, go to membership dot thefridagg dot com.

524
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: It is one hundred and twenty dollars for the year

525
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 3: and it gets you a lot of stuff. I think

526
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 3: you know, I've been really impressed with our team and

527
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 3: our output and our dedication towards it. It is something

528
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 3: that we want to be a really special product. It

529
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 3: is not just a GoFundMe type thing. It is a product.

530
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: We are putting a lot of our time and energy

531
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: into it, and I think everybody on the team is

532
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 3: very proud of what we've done with it so far.

533
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: So if you're interested in supporting us, membership dot Thefrida

534
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 3: Egg dot com. It's one hundred and twenty dollars for

535
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 3: the year. And now back to our discussion on the

536
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 3: latest USGA and RNA news. Tom with the Rollback News

537
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: Today and Geared towards elite players. You recently completed a

538
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 3: golf design that was, you know, obviously part municipal golf,

539
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 3: but also part hosting a PGA Tour event every year

540
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 3: in Memorial Park in Houston. How, if any would you

541
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 3: have changed your design for that golf course with this

542
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 3: reduction in distance in mind?

543
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 6: Honestly, I don't think it changes what we did much

544
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 6: at all. I mean, you know, you're talking about a

545
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 6: five or six percent rollback of the golf ball from

546
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 6: from what I can tell from the little bit that

547
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 6: I've heard so far. And you know, what I've always

548
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 6: tried to do is recognize that even tour players hit

549
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 6: at different distances. You know, some guys carry a three

550
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 6: hundred yards, some guys carry it to ninety. A few

551
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 6: can hit carry it three fifteen. So you don't I've never,

552
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 6: I've always tried to avoid putting all the hazards at

553
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 6: a certain distance, thinking, you know, if you can carry

554
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 6: it three hundred, then you're good and you should be

555
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 6: rewarded all the time. And if you can only carry

556
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 6: it two eighty five, well then you're not so good

557
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 6: and you have to hit it into tighter spaces all

558
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 6: the time. So a Memorial Park has a range of carries,

559
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 6: you know, and there's a couple of them, like the

560
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 6: shot from the back tee on sixteen that to carry

561
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 6: the most part of the water on the right is

562
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 6: a little over three hundred yards. And if this, you know,

563
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 6: if I am reading this rollback right, there's a lot

564
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 6: fewer guys that are going to take that on that

565
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 6: particular carry on unless the wind is helping them or

566
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 6: something like that. But you know, all it's going to

567
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 6: do is slide back the scale a little bit of

568
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 6: you know, the guys, the guys that can carry it

569
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 6: further now are going to have to play up more

570
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 6: like the guys who are a little shorter, and the

571
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 6: guys who are on the short end of the stick

572
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 6: now are going to have to think back a little

573
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 6: bit further two and you know, and there's going to

574
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 6: be one or two holes where they've got to give

575
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 6: up trying to make a certain carry.

576
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 3: In a way, would you agree that this would make

577
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 3: your golf course perhaps even a little bit more versatile.

578
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 6: If this is only being applied to the elite players

579
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 6: and not to the people that play Memorial Park every day,

580
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 6: you're narrowing the gap a little bit there. You know,

581
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 6: you're you know, you're letting all the amateurs go out

582
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 6: and still hit the ball just as far as they do,

583
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 6: and you're shortening the gap between them and the tour

584
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 6: pros from you know, probably fifty or sixty yards now

585
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 6: down to thirty, which that makes a difference. But and

586
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 6: you know, the one thing this will affect is that

587
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 6: the scoring will go up a little bit. If everybody's

588
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 6: hitting two more clubs into green, that's going to matter some.

589
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 6: It's not gonna I don't think it's going to change

590
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 6: the approach of what they're trying to do.

591
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 5: You know.

592
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 6: I don't think that they're going to go away from

593
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 6: attacking as many pins because they've got an aid iron

594
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 6: to the green instead of a wedge. But it will

595
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 6: have some effect.

596
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 5: You know.

597
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 6: It's you know, if you if you you know, I

598
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 6: don't know the numbers very well, but you can look

599
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 6: very clearly on the all those charts they have now

600
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 6: and say, okay, if everybody's hitting approaches from twenty yards

601
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 6: further out, we know what the scoring differential is there

602
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 6: between one hundred and forty yard approaches and one hundred

603
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 6: and sixty yard approaches and you can count on the

604
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 6: scores going up that much.

605
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then furthermore with that, obviously, is that you know,

606
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: it's not just the driver. You know, their irons will

607
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 3: be slightly it won't be as short, but they will

608
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: be a little bit shorter too. I imagine for you

609
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: as a designer, this gives you the opportunity, a little

610
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 3: bit more of an opportunity. It seems like it's a

611
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: very hard thing to do, is to get a longer

612
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: iron like a five iron or more into a professional's

613
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 3: hand on a part four. I imagine that this will

614
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 3: do that.

615
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 6: Yes, it will, you know, by the same token it's

616
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 6: going to mean. I mean, if anything, it means they'll

617
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 6: hit driver, you know, even more of all the time

618
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 6: everywhere now because they because they you know, they've have

619
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 6: been beaten into them. They need to get up there.

620
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 6: And if if hitting an iron off the team means

621
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 6: they're that much further back in the rough than they

622
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 6: would have been before, they're not willing to take that chance.

623
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 6: They're just going to pound driver all day. Unless they're

624
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 6: trying to hit into a funnel with water on both sides.

625
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 6: Obviously they don't do that.

626
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's That's the one thing that I'm super interested

627
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 3: to see with the strategy component is if let's we

628
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 3: know that like there's huge value to get a wedge

629
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 3: in the rough versus a seven iron in the fairway,

630
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: but when you move that back and it's a seven

631
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: iron in the rough or let's just say a five

632
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 3: iron in the fair way, right, how does that change?

633
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 3: And I'm sure there's data, and I apologize that I

634
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 3: don't have this data. I'm not a corese strategist, but

635
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 3: that's what I'm wondering. If that is a smaller delta

636
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 3: there and then all of a sudden, does it start

637
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 3: to present more of a choice off the tee?

638
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 6: Maybe, but I don't think. You know, I've always thought

639
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 6: that the biggest change in my lifetime and the equipment,

640
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 6: it wasn't the ball, It was the driver. And you

641
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 6: know the reason those guys and you know they do

642
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 6: use three food off the tea fair amount now, but

643
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 6: the driver just has there's such a big face there

644
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 6: and you can go at it so hard and you know,

645
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 6: miss way up on the toe somewhere and it only

646
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 6: costs you like five yards on the carry. To me,

647
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 6: that the biggest lesson for me from the Renaissance Club

648
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 6: in Memorial Park was there that the pros distance control

649
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 6: is so consistent because the equipment is so forgiven that

650
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 6: it's almost impossible to you know, make a carry on

651
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 6: a golf course that you know, they don't ever mis.

652
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 6: You know, they don't make a mistake with a carry

653
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 6: because if they hit you know, if you made them

654
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 6: hit driver fifty times and they and their average carry

655
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 6: was three hundred yards, I think the margin for error now,

656
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 6: like the worst drive out of fifty is going to

657
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 6: go like two ninety four ninety five, So all they

658
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 6: you know, if they know it's more than two ninety,

659
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 6: you know, if they know two ninety is the carry,

660
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 6: they can go for that every time and they're never

661
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 6: going to miss. Whereas twenty years ago that was not true.

662
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 6: You know, you could there was always a chance of

663
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 6: not having a perfect on center, hitting the ball didn't

664
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 6: fly so far and you had trouble. And now it's

665
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 6: like two ninety five over water. Oh yeah, I'm going

666
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 6: to make that every time.

667
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 3: It sounds like the USGAH looked at that and they

668
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 3: thought it might be too compliment complicated to implement, doing

669
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,479
Speaker 3: some sort of a change along those lines. Years ago,

670
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 3: I did a little experiment. I never published the results

671
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 3: of this, but I went to a track man and

672
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 3: I hit Hickory driver, a Persimon driver, and then a

673
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 3: modern my modern driver and what was And I hit

674
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 3: about ten to twenty shots with them. And what was

675
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: interesting was to look at the dispersion. It was it's

676
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 3: just what you're talking about. And the dispersions were like

677
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 3: a horizontal line or not like a diagonal. I'm trying

678
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 3: to explain this in a non visual format, but it

679
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 3: was like a diagonal with the with the person and

680
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 3: the smaller head drivers, the Persimon and the Hickory. What

681
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 3: I saw was there was a diagonal which was like

682
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 3: kind of short. You had that short right miss that

683
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 3: was the short misses, and then the left it kind

684
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 3: of like it had that wide dispersion of right and left,

685
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 3: but then there was a short right component of it

686
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 3: where the ball is just not going very far if

687
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: you missed it a certain way right. But then when

688
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 3: you got to the modern driver, it was just like

689
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 3: a horizontal line where the distance was basically the same,

690
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: but you would miss right or left. So it removes

691
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 3: that short miss from a miss hit when you that's

692
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 3: what's happened with modern drivers, is the right You've been

693
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 3: saying that forgiveness for a high swing speed player is

694
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: just off.

695
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 6: The charts, and you know, I mean it's not just

696
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 6: you know, I recognize it with the driver because that

697
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 6: affects even me. You know, pros generally they're not missing

698
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 6: the driver way up on the top. They're pretty good,

699
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 6: you know. So it goes through all the clubs in

700
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 6: their bag too. Where I really realized it, you know,

701
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 6: Padrick Harrington now is consulting on the Renaissance Club in Scotland,

702
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 6: and we were we were sitting in his kitchen talking

703
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 6: through the holes and we got to the seventeenth pole

704
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 6: and you know, seventeen's long, part three and there's a

705
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 6: deep ass bunker left front, which you don't see very

706
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 6: well from the tee and it's only really in play

707
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 6: with the pin on the left. So one or two

708
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 6: days out of four. But we when we went to

709
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 6: look at that whole, Padrick said, oh, I forgot that

710
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 6: bunker was even there. And I said, wait, you you

711
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 6: know the holes like two twenty you know, you got

712
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 6: to carry it two hundred and something over the bunker

713
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 6: you're not even thinking about that. And he's like, no,

714
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 6: the way the green is, I'm trying to you know,

715
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 6: the the green slopes away from the bunker a little bit,

716
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 6: so I'm trying to land the ball eight yards on.

717
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 6: I'm never going to be eight yards short from two twenty.

718
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 5: And he meant it. You know, he wasn't joking.

719
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 6: He was like, I'm never going to make that, have

720
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 6: that miss, and I'm like, what the hell am I

721
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 6: even doing?

722
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: Speaking of professionals, this is just cave across by desk,

723
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: we're recording this well, well, professional golfers. Comments are rolling in.

724
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 3: We got we got one from Web Simpson, and the

725
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 3: question to you would be, how would you respond to

726
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,720
Speaker 3: Web Simpson's commentary that the solution to the distance problem

727
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 3: is better architecture and more specifically, more rough and more trees.

728
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 6: I don't know Web Simpson's game well enough, but you know,

729
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 6: anytime a player says more rough and more trees, he's

730
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 6: a straight hitter and not a really long hitter, and

731
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 6: he just wants the long hitters punished when they hit

732
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 6: a wild t shot, which I can totally understand from

733
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 6: his perspective. You know, the problem about talking with any

734
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 6: tour pro or really any golfer about their perspective on

735
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 6: this stuff is that it's all based on their own game,

736
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 6: you know. You know, even Jack Nicholas when we were

737
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 6: working at Sabonic. You know, Jack is you know, he's

738
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 6: well aware that you know, Tiger Woods in the younger

739
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 6: generation they hit it, you know, thirty yards farther than

740
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 6: Jack did back then. But to Jack, you know, a

741
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 6: two hundred and eighty yard carry was was a reasonable

742
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 6: carry and if you could make that, you should be rewarded.

743
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 6: And if you didn't hit it solid, you know, to

744
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,959
Speaker 6: him it was it was still the way we were

745
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 6: talking about how golf used to be. If you didn't

746
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 6: hit the driver so solid and it didn't make that carry,

747
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 6: then you should be punished for that. But he just,

748
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 6: you know, he couldn't help but think of it in

749
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,479
Speaker 6: terms of his own game, even though he knows better

750
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 6: that there's plenty of other guys that hit a different

751
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 6: distances than it.

752
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 3: I mean, to be a great golfer, there is a

753
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 3: self pursuit aspect, like you have to be very selfish

754
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 3: and you have to view kind of the world of

755
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 3: golf through a very like it's it's very hard to

756
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 3: be you know, almost like a you know, thinking of

757
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 3: other people and be a successful pro golfer.

758
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 6: Yes, and and you know, more than that, they want

759
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 6: to believe that if they you know, they know when

760
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 6: they're hitting the ball well or not well, and they

761
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 6: want to be rewarded for hitting the ball well. Web

762
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,479
Speaker 6: Simpson's idea of hitting the ball well is I'm hitting

763
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 6: it straight on the fairway all the time, so the

764
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 6: golf course should be tighter, and if I can't hit

765
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 6: that fairway, I should be punished for you know, and

766
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 6: other guys it's more about how far they hit.

767
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great point. I think if you pulled,

768
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 3: you know, Jason Cocrack to Web Simpson, I'm amazed that

769
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 3: you preface it by saying you know nothing about web

770
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 3: Simpson's game and then then explained web Simpson's game to

771
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 3: a t. But if you compared those two players to

772
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 3: get wildly different opinions on how a golf course should

773
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 3: be set up, so a bigger question. And I think,

774
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 3: you know, if they had taken this approach to roll

775
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 3: back for the entire game, not just the professional game,

776
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: and it seems like what you're getting at not much

777
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 3: would change with how you designed a course for a professional.

778
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: How would golf course design and management change if this

779
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: was applied universally across the board to golf.

780
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 6: Again, I don't think it changes that much. I mean,

781
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 6: you know, the average player, the Deltas are way bigger

782
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 6: on their misses and how far they hit. You know,

783
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 6: how far one You know, if you're a ten handicapper,

784
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 6: some of them hit the ball two ninety and some

785
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 6: of them hit the ball two hundred yards, And you

786
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 6: can still be a ten handicapper under either of those scenarios,

787
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 6: depending on how the rest of your game.

788
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 5: You know.

789
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 6: The thing about why the tour pros are so consistent

790
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 6: is partly you have to be really good at all

791
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 6: parts of the game to survive out there. You know,

792
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 6: it's not like there's tour pros with who hit it

793
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 6: gray but have bad short games that won't work. And

794
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 6: it's not like they're tour pros they hit it bad

795
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 6: but have great short games. That's not good enough to

796
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 6: be one of the hundred best players in the world.

797
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 6: But when we're talking about the average golfer, the ten

798
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 6: or fifteen handycap app er, Yeah, there's huge variations in

799
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 6: what kind of golf they play, and that's why there's

800
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 6: huge variations in what kind of courses they like.

801
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 3: I think you're spot on, and I just want to

802
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: clarify point when people talk about, oh, this guy's not

803
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 3: a doesn't have a great short game on the PGA Tour.

804
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 3: That's in comparison to his peers, who are the very

805
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 3: very best in the world. Not like you know, in

806
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 3: my years of caddying, you could create an eight handicap

807
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,479
Speaker 3: that has such wildly different skill sets, right. One could

808
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 3: be really long off the t tour, long off the

809
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 3: t but an eight handicap because it's wild and it's

810
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 3: very inconsistent and just wawful around the green.

811
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 6: And the other guy is a sixty five year old

812
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 6: guy that used to be scratched and still hits every

813
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 6: shot exactly flushed, and he's just not long enough to

814
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 6: be any better than an eight handicap exactly.

815
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 3: So it's important like to reference when when when there's

816
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 3: criticism of a tour pros putting. For example, if you

817
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 3: took that guy and put him at your club or

818
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 3: your local course, he would probably be by far the

819
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 3: best putter there, you know, like That's the thing that

820
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 3: I think sometimes people like overlook is how good, how

821
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 3: great these guys are everything, you know, and how wildly

822
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 3: different in terms of like for there to be a

823
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 3: shift in design, how drastic would the changes have to be?

824
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 5: Uh?

825
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 6: You know, they've been talking about this for forty years

826
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 6: and if they'd have if they'd have stopped the growth

827
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 6: thirty years ago, it would be different and he wouldn't

828
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 6: see got you know, a course wouldn't have to be

829
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 6: seventy five hundred yards to be a tour site. But

830
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 6: you know, I mean, I you know, I thought that

831
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 6: they were probably going to talk about a ten percent rollback,

832
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 6: which would be enough to you know, not build some

833
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 6: of the crazy back tees that we've been building. Some

834
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 6: people talked about a fifteen percent rollback. That would get

835
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 6: you know, that would bring Rory McElroy back to where

836
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 6: Jack Nicholas was forty years ago. That would be that

837
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 6: would that might have serious implications for course strategy at

838
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 6: that point. You know, now you're talking about hitting pretty

839
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 6: long clubs into a lot of the greens. You can't

840
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 6: be on the rough for that. And now you got

841
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 6: to think about, okay, you know, where is the balance

842
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 6: of hitting the fairways more versus versus getting a little farther.

843
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 6: But you know, I don't think a five or six

844
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 6: percent different change makes a real difference in terms of

845
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 6: how people attack the golf course, because really, all you're

846
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 6: talking about is I don't know. I don't know when

847
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 6: the average PGA Tour driving distance was six percent shorter,

848
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 6: but when that long ago, you know, it was in

849
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 6: my professional lifetime, and I haven't really started I haven't

850
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 6: really changed much in my professional lifetime about how I

851
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 6: approach design.

852
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 5: There.

853
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 6: You know, the change has been incremental, and it's certainly

854
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 6: way different now than it was thirty five years ago,

855
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 6: but not to a level that, oh, you know, we

856
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 6: got to start designing everything differently.

857
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 3: I think what you talked about with like fifteen percent

858
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: for example, what that could also lead, Like you talked

859
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 3: about the strategy change, but another thing that might change

860
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 3: is the golf ball makeup. At that point, if all

861
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 3: of a sudden, guys are hitting very long irons into

862
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 3: play into greens rather than short irons, and greens are firm,

863
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 3: they might value a spin yar golf ball. You know,

864
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 3: these these are all different things that could you know

865
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 3: that when This is a very small change and it

866
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: limits the downstream you know effects that it does. It's

867
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 3: a very safe change really when you think about because

868
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 3: when you start to do a bigger and bigger change,

869
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 3: that's where you start to have the more unforeseen downstream

870
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 3: changes that could come up. And you know, I obviously

871
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 3: it's a We're still three years from implementation, and I

872
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 3: think there's nothing is final, so it'll be fun to

873
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 3: watch this. Tom. I really appreciate you coming on and

874
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 3: giving us your insights on the latest chapter in the

875
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 3: two hundred year golf debate.

876
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 6: All right, Andy, thank you, Roberto.

877
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 3: What do you think about the changes introduced today, the

878
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 3: reduction in just the tour professionals effectively distanced by fifteen

879
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: to twenty yards via the swing speed test of the

880
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 3: of the technology. What are your overarching thoughts on the

881
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 3: news from the USJA and RNA today.

882
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 7: My thoughts are pretty simple. I think it's just a

883
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 7: no brainer. The how is you know upward debate? If

884
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 7: it's ten, if it's fifteen, if it's twenty, I'm sure

885
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 7: it'll affect some players more than others. The details, you know,

886
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 7: we can talk about, but just the headline to me,

887
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 7: I kind of was like, Okay, that needed to happen,

888
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 7: kind of moved on with my day. That's how I

889
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 7: see it.

890
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 3: What do you mean by it had to happen and

891
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 3: it's a no brainer. Why is it a no brainer?

892
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 7: I think there's just two factors. One, the golf ball

893
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 7: continues to fly farther, and that can be for a

894
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 7: number of different reasons. You can say it's the driver,

895
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 7: you can say it's the ball, you can say it's

896
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 7: faster players, and all of those might be true, and

897
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 7: all of them are true to some extent. But the

898
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 7: ball continues to go longer and the courses don't get longer.

899
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 7: So at some point either you're going to play a

900
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 7: completely different game unlike the one that really how the

901
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 7: game was designed to be played, which in my opinion

902
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 7: is fourteen clubs. You hit some long shots, you hit

903
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 7: some short shots. You have to be kind of good

904
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 7: at all all the shots to be really good, or

905
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 7: you can't expand the golf courses anymore. It's just not

906
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 7: it's literally not possible anymore. To add, you can't have

907
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 7: ten thousand yard golf courses. There's roads and neighborhoods, and

908
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 7: there's no more land and no more water, so ball

909
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 7: continues to go farther, courses don't get longer. Something had

910
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 7: to be done.

911
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 3: You know, I have to say I was I wanted

912
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 3: to have you on because I thought, oh, he's he's

913
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 3: a retired former player, he's going to have no bias,

914
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 3: kind of no dog in this fight. But I just

915
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 3: recalled that you just lost your course record at TVC

916
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 3: Sawgrass this past weekend, so there could be some bias

917
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 3: sneaking in here.

918
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 7: I blame the rules officials for that. The setup was

919
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 7: no that was you know, that was actually like obviously

920
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,479
Speaker 7: the course was gettable that day. But here's what happened there.

921
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 7: You're talking about a twenty five million dollar perse and

922
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 7: a guy who shot seventy eight on Thursday, and he

923
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 7: backs into the cut like he shoots a nice round

924
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,439
Speaker 7: on Friday. The cut moves to two over, and we've

925
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 7: all been there as pro golfers, like when you make

926
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 7: that cut on the number, especially, like it kind of

927
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 7: moves your way. It's the it's the lightest feeling in

928
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 7: professional golf. You go play on Saturday and you're like,

929
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 7: if I shoot nighty, I shoot nighty, I'm still going

930
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 7: to collect a check I didn't think I was going

931
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 7: to get and all I have is upside and he

932
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 7: caught a day where the conditions were favorable. All he

933
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 7: could do was just go put stuff more cash into

934
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 7: his pocket and he shot sixty two. So it was

935
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 7: that was cool.

936
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 3: It was great round a notorious gambler, as you described,

937
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 3: playing with house money.

938
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 7: House money. It's house money. You put the chips on

939
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 7: the table and they can't take any away. All they

940
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 7: can do is add to your stack. You don't have

941
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 7: to be a professional gambler quasi professional gambler to know

942
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:45,959
Speaker 7: that's a good deal.

943
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 3: All right, So back to the subject in hand. Sorry

944
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 3: for the quick quick divergence. I just was listening to

945
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 3: your talk and thinking about the about the feeling on

946
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 3: Saturday you had probably why do you think some tour

947
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 3: pros are so adamantly opposed to the rollback?

948
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 7: People just are generally hardwired to oppose change. A lot

949
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 7: of a lot of people. And if you are on

950
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 7: the PGA tour currently, you have the best job in

951
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 7: the world. You've worked you know, you've worked your ass

952
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 7: off to get that job. You've built a skill set,

953
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 7: so anything that could potentially throw that off kilter is

954
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 7: probably a little concerning, and I could see how there

955
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 7: would be pushback.

956
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 3: Do you think there's any credence to or you know,

957
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 3: could explain how these guys are saying that the rollback

958
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 3: will hurt the product? Do you think there's any validity

959
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 3: to that.

960
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 7: I don't think so. I think if the ball was

961
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 7: going to go two hundred and forty yards, it might

962
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 7: hurt the product. But I think there is a very

963
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 7: large disconnect between the reason people play golf. There's golf

964
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 7: and then there's professional golf in the PGA Tour, in

965
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 7: the LPGA Tour, and I think we tend to mash

966
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 7: those up too much. Most people go to the golf course,

967
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 7: invest their time and their money because they enjoy playing

968
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 7: the game of golf. And that has nothing to do

969
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 7: really with what happens on Sunday on the PGA or

970
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 7: LPGA Tour. And look at this COVID golf boom, Like,

971
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 7: first of all, I think it's real. I think a

972
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 7: lot more people have come into the game of all ages,

973
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 7: all stripes, all colors, and they're sticking to it. And

974
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 7: what happened on the LPGA or PGA Tour that could

975
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 7: explain that nothing. Nothing's different. There's some stars in the game,

976
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 7: there are some great players. Nothing is that considerably different.

977
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 7: If this was going to happen, you would have said

978
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 7: it would have happened with Tiger Woods, not rom or Scheffler,

979
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 7: who are the best players in the game. Now, what

980
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 7: happened is people had time. People had time to go

981
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 7: try golf, and they had flexibility with their work life,

982
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 7: and they loved the game. They didn't say like, oh

983
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 7: my gosh, like did you see the Honda Classic this weekend,

984
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 7: I'm going to go take up golf. That didn't happen. Now,

985
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 7: once they do take up golf, they do enjoy watching

986
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 7: the tour and the LPGA Tour, because once you've hit

987
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 7: a few golf balls yourself, it is amazing to see

988
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 7: what the tour players can do, and the competition is

989
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 7: really compelling. But I don't think it hurts the product

990
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 7: at all.

991
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 3: You know, it's a pretty small reduction. It's five to

992
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 3: ten percent, and you you could call me, I mean,

993
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 3: I'm in my late I'm getting towards my late thirties.

994
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 3: Now you could call me an old fuddy duddy or whatever.

995
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 3: I feel like I move the ball pretty well. Myself

996
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 3: off the tee. One thing I noticed is I think

997
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 3: this actually could help the product from like spectating in person.

998
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 3: I'll never forget at the Ryder Cup at Whistling Straights,

999
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 3: I was like having trouble picking up Bryson's ball off

1000
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: the tee because it was going so fast, like you know,

1001
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 3: to a certain extent, I think that the product in

1002
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 3: person could be like I'll never forget, you know, watching

1003
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 3: a Honda Classic and in the early two thousands, and

1004
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 3: I sat behind a te box all day and the

1005
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 3: distance of the ball wasn't traveling, wasn't what made me unbelievable.

1006
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,919
Speaker 3: I'll never forget VJ saying walking up to the tee

1007
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 3: like he had that you know that saunter right, and

1008
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 3: he gets up to the tee and just the prodigious

1009
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 3: height that he hit the ball, Like the way the

1010
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 3: ball launched off the face. It seems to me nothing

1011
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 3: about that is changing with a five to ten percent

1012
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 3: reduction in distance, like the launch angle, all of that

1013
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 3: is staying the same. That's what is super impressive. There's

1014
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,439
Speaker 3: no way to gauge if a ball is flying three

1015
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 3: hundred and ten yards or three hundred yards, whether you're

1016
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 3: in person or you're watching on TV. It is more

1017
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 3: about the way the ball comes off the face. And

1018
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 3: I I think a question I would have is like

1019
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 3: how far would have been too far from your perspective

1020
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 3: of as a tour player, because I think that this

1021
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 3: is almost feels like and it seemed like it was

1022
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,280
Speaker 3: almost admitted to be a band aid solution.

1023
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you're right.

1024
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 7: First of all, I remember going to tour events as

1025
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 7: a kid and being shocked at the driving range at

1026
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 7: how they just clipped every shot so pure, like every

1027
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 7: single shot was perfect. And that's my vivid memory of

1028
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 7: watching golf as a kid, like going to tour events

1029
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 7: and el my aunt plate on the LPGA, so I

1030
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 7: would go watch her hit golf balls when I was

1031
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 7: a kid, and I was like, she just hits every

1032
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 7: shot perfect. And as a PGA tour player, you do

1033
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 7: a corporate clinic and like you could roll straight out

1034
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 7: of the car, grab a seven iron and hit a

1035
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 7: seven iron that to me felt like chunky and stiff

1036
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 7: and wasn't any good. And every single person on that

1037
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 7: range at that clinic is like, oh my gosh, effort,

1038
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:54,399
Speaker 7: Like look at that shot, what a perfect golf shot. Right,

1039
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 7: so that that doesn't affect the product at all. That

1040
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 7: the ball goes ten percent, I think it could make

1041
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 7: the product better because I was watching Sawgrass this weekend

1042
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 7: in the most compelling hole other than seventeen, which is

1043
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 7: obviously amazing to watch when it's windy, but sixteen is

1044
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 7: the most fun hole to watch because they're all hitting

1045
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 7: like two hundred to two hundred and twenty yard second shots,

1046
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 7: which is what you used to hit into a par

1047
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 7: four occasionally, maybe once or twice around, and golf is

1048
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 7: still really hard from that distance, Like so few guys

1049
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 7: were hitting the green, they were bailing out, left not

1050
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 7: many in the water. But if you can start putting

1051
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 7: some six irons and five irons back in players' hands,

1052
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 7: I think that the product gets better because it's just

1053
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 7: more interesting than driver wedge. So to answer how much

1054
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 7: would have been too much, I don't think you need

1055
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 7: to go back to you know, the long hitters today

1056
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 7: carry the ball three hundred to three hundred and ten yards,

1057
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 7: and I think if it flies to eighty or two ninety, great.

1058
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 7: I don't think taking them to hitting at two sixty,

1059
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 7: like you're you know, that's too much to do at

1060
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 7: one time. But it's just it's just gotten so crazy,

1061
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 7: like you know, ball speeds of one seventy with three

1062
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 7: woods now and Min Wu Lee hit an iron that

1063
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 7: had a one to seventy two ball speed, Like, I

1064
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 7: don't think we're going too far here, folks, Like it's

1065
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 7: I don't think so.

1066
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. I kind of come to thinking about like four

1067
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty yard par fours as like what they've

1068
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 3: become has been. It's crazy that like they've become, you know,

1069
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 3: just say normal conditions, no crazy wind nothing. You're talking

1070
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 3: about long hitters hitting driver nine iron, Yeah, maybe driver wedge.

1071
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 3: You're talking about like middle of the road PGA Tour

1072
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 3: players is driver seven iron yep, And to be that's

1073
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 3: that's wild. Four hundred and eighty yards like what I remember,

1074
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 3: And I don't want this to be like a nostalgia,

1075
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 3: but I remember as a kid. We're about the same

1076
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 3: age I remember as a kid, like four hundred and

1077
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 3: fifty yards when I was in high school was like

1078
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 3: a beast, you know. And you and I think the

1079
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,479
Speaker 3: USA did a nice job today talking about it, talking

1080
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 3: about we've been out at the junior tournaments, like we

1081
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 3: go to the Junior am we see what is going on,

1082
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 3: because like it's so drastically different when you watch the

1083
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 3: amateur and junior level to the early two thousands, which

1084
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:28,919
Speaker 3: is really where it kind of feels like they're trying

1085
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 3: to push it back to than it is now.

1086
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 7: You know, yeah, totally. And the so I've seen the

1087
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 7: Instagram videos of like the speed training that kids are doing.

1088
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 7: There's that one coach he gets like four kids at

1089
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 7: a time and they're lined up on a mat and

1090
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 7: they're doing like step by step speed training. It's like, oh, well,

1091
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 7: you know, athletes are better and they're training better. Okay, fine,

1092
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 7: But it's the USGA's job to protect the game. It's

1093
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 7: to write the rules of the game so that the

1094
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 7: game is played in the spirit of the game. And

1095
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 7: we made up the rules to start with, like so

1096
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 7: we can right. And I think the game was designed

1097
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 7: to be played with a multitude of shots, and that

1098
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 7: has gone away because of the long distances. So let's

1099
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 7: make it more interesting through the bag and let's make

1100
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 7: the courses play like they're designed to. I heard that

1101
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 7: I've never played at LACC, but I was talking to

1102
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 7: Bryce Molder the other day who played on tour, and

1103
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 7: he goes over there for work now a good bit

1104
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 7: and has played there a bunch, and he said the

1105
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 7: back nine is like over forty five hundred yards or something.

1106
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 7: He said, there can be four. There's like four. He's like,

1107
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 7: I don't know where they'll put the t's, but there

1108
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 7: are four or five par fours that are five point fifty. Like,

1109
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 7: that's not normal, that's not possible most places. Obviously Augusta

1110
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 7: did the big deal at thirteen this year, but that's

1111
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 7: not going to be possible all over that golf course.

1112
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 7: So I think this is the right move.

1113
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 3: What type of player do you think will be most

1114
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 3: advantaged and most disadvantaged by let's just say to use

1115
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 3: a blanket fifteen twenty yard reduction in distance.

1116
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 7: I don't think it shuffles the world ranking hardly at all.

1117
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 7: I think that everyone is going to hit it shorter.

1118
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 7: The best strikers are still the best strikers, the best

1119
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 7: putters are still the best putters. I just think it

1120
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 7: makes the gameplay more interesting.

1121
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 3: And more interesting. From your standpoint, is a wider variety

1122
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 3: of clubs hit into the green?

1123
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 5: That's right? Yeah.

1124
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 3: Strategically, I mean you played in the era where like

1125
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 3: strategy became a big thing on tour. And the strategy

1126
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 3: is not from like the romantic golf architecture standpoint, hitting

1127
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 3: it to certain sides of the fairway. Strategy is if

1128
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 3: I can hit a driver and push it up there

1129
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 3: without it getting going into a hazard, that is the

1130
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 3: best idea for the best thing for me to do,

1131
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 3: you know, versus laying back and hitting it from the fairway.

1132
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 3: For the most part, the idea of pushing driver, what

1133
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 3: do you think you know? Obviously that is and I

1134
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 3: think my big question with this is does that change

1135
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 3: if all of a sudden, instead of pushing it up

1136
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 3: to a wedge, I'm pushing it up to a eight

1137
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 3: or seven iron versus I could take a five iron

1138
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 3: in the fairway, or versus a say a seven iron

1139
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,919
Speaker 3: in the wedge standpoint, Do you think that has any

1140
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 3: I could have any strategic impact the shorter driving distance.

1141
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 7: That's a good question, and i'd actually I'm not the

1142
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 7: best person to answer this. I was not a super

1143
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 7: stats guru. I mean that was coming online when I

1144
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 7: was on tour. You might know more about it and

1145
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 7: have more conversations about it.

1146
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 5: But I think part of.

1147
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 7: That, like hit it as close to the green as

1148
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 7: possible was driven by there were just more players that

1149
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 7: could hit it really far, Like there just wasn't a

1150
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 7: three to twenty shot in the bag for most guys

1151
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 7: on tour in twenty ten, right, and then as more

1152
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 7: of those guys came on tour that became an option.

1153
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 7: They had decide how they wanted to play the golf courses.

1154
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 7: So so it's hard to answer whether that strategy will

1155
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 7: really change. I do know that driving it straight, I

1156
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 7: know you're big on the driver face and you know,

1157
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 7: go going to a smaller driver that's less forgiving. I

1158
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 7: think it's still pretty easy to hit the driver crooked.

1159
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 7: It really is like you saw it at Bayhill. On

1160
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 7: these are the last two tournaments I watched. Nobody could

1161
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 7: hit that sixteenth fairway and when it mattered on sixteen

1162
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 7: and eighteen it was really hard to hit it straight,

1163
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 7: and fifteen was the same way, like guys were not

1164
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 7: hitting it straight coming down the stretch. And Rory, you know,

1165
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 7: whether he's having a hard time finding a driver or

1166
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 7: just wasn't swinging his driver great. At TPC he missed

1167
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 7: the cup by eight shots. So it's still very possible

1168
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 7: to hit a crooked t shot in today's world, with

1169
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 7: today's equipment, do.

1170
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 3: You think it would be advantageous to have less forgiveness

1171
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 3: in drivers? Do you think the driver spec not addressing

1172
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 3: any driver specs equipment specs is a miss or do

1173
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 3: you think they got it right by not touching anything

1174
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 3: with that.

1175
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 7: I think that that would potentially change the world ranking

1176
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 7: a little bit more than changing the golf, like just

1177
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 7: having the ballgo twenty yards shorter for everyone, I think

1178
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 7: the same skills still matter. I do think that if

1179
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 7: you change the forgiveness of drivers or clubs, I mean,

1180
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 7: I think it's pretty obvious that if you put like

1181
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 7: a small headed driver and everyone on tour had to

1182
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 7: play straight blades and you had to carry a three

1183
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 7: wood and then a two iron and a three iron

1184
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 7: and a four iron, that some play the world rankings

1185
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 7: would shuffle a little bit, Like a really pure striker

1186
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 7: would rise up. They're already at the top, right, Like

1187
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 7: the same top five would be the same top five,

1188
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 7: but kind of that, like Adam Scott would go from

1189
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 7: twenty fifth in the world to like sixth in the world,

1190
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 7: right because he's just an absolute flusher. And I mean

1191
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 7: Rory said this before, where He's like, if a hybrid

1192
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 7: wasn't invented, I separate from the field even more because

1193
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 7: I can hit a three iron up my nose. Now,

1194
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 7: a guy like me, a low speed guy from two forty,

1195
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 7: I can hit a hybrid or a five wood, and

1196
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 7: I was pretty good with a five wood, right, Rory's

1197
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 7: three iron is more impressive. But actually I would bet that, like,

1198
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 7: give me a hundred balls versus Rory's three iron. My

1199
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 7: five wood pretty decent. But if we're if we're all

1200
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 7: playing straight blades and it goes back to less forgiving clubs,

1201
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 7: he's going to outrun me really fast.

1202
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing. And you see Rory play great,

1203
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 3: like he didn't have his a game. He almost won

1204
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 3: bay Hill. And one of the reasons that he plays

1205
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 3: great at bay Hill is that that's one of the

1206
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 3: few courses that requires you hit six or seven long

1207
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 3: irons there. And I mean, I wrote about this in

1208
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 3: the Fridak newsletter. It paid me to write about it.

1209
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 3: But like it gives bay Hill actually an identity is

1210
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 3: the lack of variety in the golf course is unique

1211
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 3: because it's like, oh, these guys have to hit a

1212
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,479
Speaker 3: ton of long irons. And like Bryson played well there.

1213
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 3: Bryson was a great long iron player, Like you know,

1214
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 3: everybody talked about his distance off the tee. He's always

1215
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 3: been a great long iron player. And it's interesting when

1216
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 3: you start to think about the game a little bit

1217
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 3: differently in terms of like finding the center and having

1218
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: long irons, it really drastically. I think that's what you know,

1219
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 3: people that long for the game of the seventies, that's

1220
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 3: what they longed for, is the idea that the greatest

1221
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 3: skill in the game is the ability to hit that

1222
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 3: towering long iron. Yeah.

1223
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 7: I agree with that, and you know, I think it's

1224
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 7: still rewarded. It really is, And like the height part

1225
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 7: is really probably underrated and under talked about. Like I

1226
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 7: was reasonably successful tour player and played well on hard

1227
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 7: courses and was on the shorter half of the spectrum.

1228
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 7: I mean, became really short, but when I started, I

1229
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 7: was kind of in the middle, and then I steadily

1230
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 7: moved down in distance. But the main reason was I

1231
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 7: could hit it high. I really could hit high shots

1232
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 7: with four, five, six, seven irons, and it was a

1233
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 7: big advantage on hard golf courses. And you know, if

1234
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 7: you add distance to that, now you're really cooking.

1235
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 3: With a shorter I don't know if you're there. You're

1236
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 3: an edgiteer, so this might be right up your wheelhouse.

1237
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 3: With the ball going shorter, do you think there will

1238
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 3: be a push for a little bit more spin in

1239
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 3: the ball because you're going to have longer shots into greens,

1240
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 3: into firm greens.

1241
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 7: That's possible, It's very possible you. I mean again, you

1242
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 7: saw that on sixteen at Sawgrass this week that whole

1243
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 7: once it rained on the weekend, it wasn't so much,

1244
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:30,959
Speaker 7: but it was hard for them to hold that green

1245
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 7: with that two and twenty yard type shot.

1246
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 3: Last question, if you're the tour, is there any real

1247
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 3: thought to rejecting this from the USGA and saying no,

1248
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 3: we're going to play by our rules.

1249
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 7: I don't see what the upside would be to that.

1250
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 7: The governing bodies, the Tour, the RNA, you know, the

1251
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 7: PGA of America, they all have a really good relationship.

1252
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 7: I think they've kind of walked in locks that probably

1253
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 7: more than ever of the last few years.

1254
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 6: I don't see.

1255
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 7: I'm sure they've all been in communication throughout this whole time.

1256
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 7: I would be very surprised if that was the case,

1257
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 7: but that's just my take.

1258
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 3: All right, Roberto, thanks for coming on. You've got a

1259
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,599
Speaker 3: podcast that everybody can check out. The Course record show.

1260
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 3: I listened to podcasts and to prepare for my interview

1261
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 3: with Joe Ogilvy that was last week. That was fantastic.

1262
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 3: Anything new with your show.

1263
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 7: No, we just were focusing on the business of golf,

1264
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:35,600
Speaker 7: so you had Joe to talk about the tour regulations

1265
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 7: and field sizes. We picked some golf companies and ran

1266
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 7: through who owns them, whether Joe would buy or sell

1267
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 7: as a professional investor, so we will be always kind

1268
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 7: of looking at the business side of the golf industry.

1269
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:51,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a worth I love love checking the episodes

1270
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 3: out and listening. It's a definitely a unique podcast, which

1271
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:57,720
Speaker 3: is the most important thing in a crowded space is

1272
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 3: you've got a very unique angle and obviously a very

1273
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 3: unique perspective being somebody that's been very deeply entrenched in

1274
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 3: the game of golf. So highly recommend everybody go check

1275
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 3: out your show. And thanks for coming on to talk

1276
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 3: about this.

1277
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 7: All right, Andy, good talking to you.

1278
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 5: All right.

1279
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:28,480
Speaker 3: Joseph, you are i would say, an advisor for strategy

1280
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 3: with top end players, you know, at the amateur ranks,

1281
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 3: the developmental tour ranks, the PGA Tour ranks. You really,

1282
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 3: you know, one of the things that you do is

1283
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 3: advise them on how to play a golf course, I

1284
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 3: you know, to kick things off. I think, you know,

1285
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people might understand this, but

1286
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:53,680
Speaker 3: maybe give it a you know, explanation on how the

1287
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 3: distance gains and power has impacted strategy in golf as

1288
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 3: of you know today.

1289
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 8: Okay, yeah, a lot's unpacked there. I'll try to keep

1290
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:08,839
Speaker 8: it as succinct as possible. I think the as data

1291
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 8: has become more advanced, especially with the shot link system

1292
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 8: that was put in on the tour almost two decades ago,

1293
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 8: and strokes gained Mark Brody's invention, there have been a

1294
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 8: lot of insights drawn that prior to that point you

1295
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 8: would have had to just hypothesize. Now we know, right,

1296
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 8: distance is one of the most reliable advantages on tour.

1297
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 8: You're going to hit the ball. You might not hit

1298
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 8: the ball straight every day, but if you're a long hitter,

1299
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 8: you're gonna hit the ball long every day. So a

1300
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 8: lot of players have chased swing speed because they know

1301
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 8: that it's one of the most one of the most

1302
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 8: reliable advantages on tour, but there are a lot of

1303
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 8: other advantages on tour that have come from analyzing data,

1304
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:56,520
Speaker 8: being aggressive off the tee, being conservative on your approach targets,

1305
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 8: like taking hazards out of play. There's some over art

1306
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 8: principles that the top end players are adhering to, and

1307
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 8: I would say overall strategies, players are getting better and

1308
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 8: better about strategy as the years go by. Whole Tenant

1309
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:14,679
Speaker 8: Rivier is a great example, and they've shown those graphics

1310
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 8: where ten fifteen years ago a lot of players were

1311
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 8: laying up. Now everyone's going for it, and part of

1312
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:22,719
Speaker 8: that's equipment, which I'm sure we'll touch on today.

1313
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 3: So the idea is that the further you can hit it,

1314
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 3: the closer you can get, and the easier the game

1315
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 3: gets from there, the basic hypothesis, assuming you don't hit

1316
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 3: it into a trap or a water hazard.

1317
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 8: I think that's a simple way of looking at it.

1318
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 8: But I think the key insight is more that when

1319
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 8: you lay back with like a three wood or an

1320
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 8: iron off the tee to the difference between your chance

1321
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:58,719
Speaker 8: of hitting the fair way is outweighed by the distance

1322
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 8: gain of hitting a dry and so a lot of

1323
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 8: people historically thought, Okay, laid back with three wood because

1324
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 8: you're going to hit the fairway versus a driver, you're

1325
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 8: not going to hit the fairway. But that's a reductive

1326
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 8: way to look at it. And if you actually compare

1327
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:13,719
Speaker 8: your chance of hitting the fairway with a driver versus

1328
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 8: a three wood, you'll quickly arrive at the conclusion that

1329
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,400
Speaker 8: the driver is the better play. I'm simplifying a little bit,

1330
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 8: but that's the main that's driving a lot of the

1331
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 8: decisions the players are making.

1332
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,839
Speaker 3: So with that in mind, just you know, a basis

1333
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,680
Speaker 3: understanding of the strategy. With that in mind, you know,

1334
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:38,120
Speaker 3: the USGA has proposed these changes here. Now, if we

1335
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:42,839
Speaker 3: remove say fifteen to twenty yards off of t shots,

1336
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 3: and obviously there's going to be some trickle down irons

1337
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 3: are going to go shorter to not as much. Will

1338
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:56,480
Speaker 3: strategy fundamentally change on the PGA tour fundamentally?

1339
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 5: Absolutely not.

1340
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,440
Speaker 8: All the same concepts are going to apply in practice,

1341
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 8: Like are there going to be small modifications to how

1342
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 8: players play certain holes?

1343
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 5: What kind of shots they still like? Yeah? I think so.

1344
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 8: And there's a lot of unknowns, right, we need to

1345
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 8: see how this new ball reacts. But there will be

1346
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 8: some small differences. I think to say that, oh wow,

1347
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 8: now players are going to start playing golf courses completely

1348
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 8: differently would be a huge overstatem and it's not going

1349
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 8: to change very much.

1350
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 3: How do you see more nuanced? What are things that

1351
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 3: you look at with this and think, oh wow, that

1352
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 3: might be different?

1353
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1354
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 8: I mean I think approach targets will be interesting because

1355
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 8: long irons, generally players are getting really conservative with their

1356
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:42,720
Speaker 8: targets right, And the reason for that is that your

1357
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 8: dispersion patterns pretty wide. With a long iron versus a wedge,

1358
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 8: you can get a little bit more aggressive because you

1359
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 8: have a tighter dispersion pattern. So now we'll just have

1360
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 8: to see how those dispersion patterns change when you're hitting

1361
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 8: the ball a little bit shorter and what is a

1362
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 8: long iron disp pattern versus a wedge Like, There'll just

1363
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 8: be some small changes there.

1364
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 5: I think.

1365
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 8: The other thing we'll have to see how players off

1366
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 8: the tea dispersion patterns change with a Spinni or ball,

1367
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 8: because if for some reason it's much easier to hit

1368
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 8: a three wood than a driver or something, that could

1369
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 8: change when you hit threewood off the tee versus a driver.

1370
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 8: I don't expect that to be the case, but I

1371
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 8: want to I want to have more information before saying

1372
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:25,440
Speaker 8: anything definitively.

1373
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:28,799
Speaker 3: I was wondering too, you know, and this is something

1374
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 3: like obviously one of the things that's happened. And you explained,

1375
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 3: like you might hit the fairway less when you hit

1376
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:39,080
Speaker 3: a driver than a fairway wood. But the distance, the

1377
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 3: additional distance, the closer you get, like, it's not a

1378
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 3: given that you're going to hit the fairway with a

1379
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 3: three wood if you lay back, how far would that

1380
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,160
Speaker 3: pendulum have to change? And does it change with like distance?

1381
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 3: In is it then all of a sudden? Does it

1382
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:55,719
Speaker 3: change with like if I if all of a sudden

1383
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 3: I'm hitting a seven iron out of the rough instead

1384
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 3: of a wedge, then all does that five iron out

1385
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 3: of the fairway look more advantageous than the seven iron

1386
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 3: from the fairway versus wedge?

1387
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:08,680
Speaker 5: It would have to change pretty significantly.

1388
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:12,480
Speaker 8: I think the key here will be does the dispersion

1389
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 8: pattern with the driver versus the three wood?

1390
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:16,519
Speaker 5: Does that gap widen?

1391
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 8: Because it is true that a three wood, generally a

1392
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 8: player's dispersion pattern is tighter. It's not just that a

1393
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 8: driver goes farther, which is why you miss fairways more often.

1394
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 8: Your dispersion pattern is actually wider with a driver, not

1395
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 8: just distance, actual dispersion. So if that were two, if

1396
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 8: the difference between driver and three wood work to significantly widen,

1397
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 8: then you'd derive in more situations where three wood's the

1398
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:46,879
Speaker 8: better play, especially if a fairway narrows where your driver's

1399
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,960
Speaker 8: going to end up. That's true. If those dispersion patterns

1400
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 8: don't really change, I don't expect there to be much

1401
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,680
Speaker 8: of an off the tee club selection, any any kind

1402
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:59,439
Speaker 8: of fundamental shifts in how players are thinking about that.

1403
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 8: So we're just gonna have to see. But if drivers

1404
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 8: in three woods kind of have the same ish dispersion

1405
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:08,640
Speaker 8: patterns as before, then now I don't think that's going

1406
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 8: to come into play.

1407
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:10,799
Speaker 5: I think players are going to keep being pretty aggressive

1408
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 5: with driver.

1409
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:14,799
Speaker 3: So the way the fundamentally the way we see guys

1410
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 3: play golf should stay pretty similar from a strategic standpoint.

1411
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 3: With this this rollback, what type of rollback would you

1412
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 3: say you would need to see to have a significant change.

1413
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't I'm not enough of an expert on

1414
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 8: some of the specifics of what you could do. But

1415
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 8: for example, if the driver, if the sweet spot was smaller,

1416
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 8: and your just dispersion patterns started to get pretty wide

1417
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 8: with driver because you have to hit it in the

1418
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 8: center of the face, then it would bring more three

1419
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 8: woods into playoff the tee again, especially if the fairway

1420
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:54,680
Speaker 8: titans where your driver's supposed to go, so that I

1421
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 8: think you'd have to modify the driver most likely. But

1422
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 8: like with a spin of your ball, if you're into

1423
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 8: a significant wind, like, I'm interested in seeing what those

1424
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 8: dispersion patterns look like because that could be an instance

1425
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:08,400
Speaker 8: where hitting three wood may make sense even under these

1426
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 8: regulations that they've proposed.

1427
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 3: So yeah, and I don't know if there's going to

1428
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 3: be a spin your ball, but it would make sense

1429
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 3: possibly if you're hitting longer shots into greens on average,

1430
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 3: that these players might want a little bit more spin,

1431
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 3: especially with how firm some greens get on tour.

1432
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely.

1433
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 3: In terms of just general thoughts, do you have any

1434
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 3: general thoughts on the news today and just you know,

1435
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 3: the conclusions that you've come up with.

1436
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:43,679
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I'm really happy to see something being done.

1437
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 8: The death of the long iron on par fours is

1438
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 8: something that I think you and I both have lamented

1439
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 8: over the time, Like you don't see a lot of

1440
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 8: long iron hit on the PGA tour, And I'm excited

1441
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 8: that even if it's a five percent reduction in distance,

1442
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 8: you're gonna get more irons and fewer you know, more

1443
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 8: wedges turned into a nine iron and eight iron like

1444
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:08,840
Speaker 8: that does introduce more compelling play, even if it doesn't

1445
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:12,600
Speaker 8: have a fundamental impact on how players strategize.

1446
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 3: I mean that that could fundamentally change golf. I don't

1447
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:22,679
Speaker 3: I don't anticipate the top end changing, like the very

1448
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 3: top players having an impact on but you know, if

1449
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 3: you turn wedges into eight irons, like if you tearn

1450
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:36,440
Speaker 3: four wedges into eight irons, and that that could dramatically

1451
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,960
Speaker 3: shift some of the prerequisite skills needed in golf.

1452
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:44,240
Speaker 8: Right, I think shipping probably just got a little more important. Right,

1453
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 8: So that's one thing you could just directly point to,

1454
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 8: guys are going to hit fewer greens. The other thing

1455
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 8: that there will be some dialogue around is who does

1456
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 8: this benefit like a long hitter or a short hitter,

1457
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 8: And the consensus seems to be be a jerk reaction,

1458
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,680
Speaker 8: the knee jerk reaction. That long hitters are going to

1459
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,920
Speaker 8: benefit from this, I'm not sure that I quite see that.

1460
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 8: Padrake Harrington said that. Bryson D. Chambeau kind of said

1461
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 8: the opposite, like this is penalizing me for working so

1462
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 8: hard and hitting it long. I do think this is

1463
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 8: going to benefit shorter hitters based on some theory and

1464
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 8: which holds.

1465
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:24,919
Speaker 5: For example, for example, a short part.

1466
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 8: Four now right, let's say three hundred and thirty yard

1467
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 8: part four, where a guy hits it three point fifteen

1468
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,679
Speaker 8: off the tee versus a player who hits it three hundred.

1469
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:36,680
Speaker 8: That player who hits it three fifteen is at a

1470
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 8: significant advantage right now because he can get it within

1471
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 8: ten to fifteen yards of the green, which value of

1472
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 8: distance is really strong. Inside fifty yards, the incremental benefit,

1473
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 8: incremental benefit of having like an extra ten to fifteen

1474
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 8: yards is huge inside fifty yards. As we move that back,

1475
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:59,000
Speaker 8: there's less of a benefit there now. So if a

1476
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 8: three hundred and thirty yard part four did is more,

1477
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 8: this regulation change is leveling the playing field a little bit.

1478
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 8: That's not true of every length of pool, like a

1479
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:13,880
Speaker 8: four hundred and fifty yard part four that just swung

1480
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 8: in favor of a long hitter. Now barely barely, but

1481
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 8: overall we'll see how this shakes out.

1482
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 5: I actually think it's going to benefit a shorter hitter.

1483
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,000
Speaker 3: That's what I saw this too, this discourse that like

1484
01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 3: short hitters are screwed, and I uh, I think the

1485
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:35,200
Speaker 3: thing that's discounted about short hitters on the PGA tour

1486
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 3: at this point, if you're a shorter hitter on the

1487
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 3: PGA Tour, that means you're like a freak of nature

1488
01:20:41,479 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 3: across the board with all the other aspects of the game.

1489
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:48,799
Speaker 3: That means you are like extraordinarily good. And I think

1490
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:51,719
Speaker 3: for a short hitter that might be hitting a five

1491
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,639
Speaker 3: iron into the green, when a long hitter is hitting

1492
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:57,719
Speaker 3: a nine iron into the green. Them hitting a three

1493
01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:00,720
Speaker 3: iron into the green versus a five iron isn't as

1494
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 3: big of a deal as a long hitter going from

1495
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:05,519
Speaker 3: a nine iron to a seven or a six iron.

1496
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 8: Well where it's really big. So it'd be valuable if

1497
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:11,800
Speaker 8: people looked up a plot. I mean, I'm trying to

1498
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 8: think of where one would exist, but where the value

1499
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 8: distance's biggest is generally inside like fifty yards, and then

1500
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 8: it gets pretty big between like two hundred and ten

1501
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 8: and two hundred and forty yards. That's where it gets

1502
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 8: pretty steep on the curve. Outside of that too, sixty

1503
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:34,559
Speaker 8: two seventy to eighty. The difference there, the marginal benefit

1504
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 8: of like ten yards is not as significant. So some

1505
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 8: of these par fives we're going to see some equalizing

1506
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 8: and that's not going to be as tilted in favor

1507
01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 8: of the long hitters. So the other and the other

1508
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 8: thing I would the other thing I was saying.

1509
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 3: I think that would be run counter to what people

1510
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 3: would think is that you would think that the short

1511
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 3: par fours and the and the par fives would be

1512
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 3: where the the long hitters have such an advantage with

1513
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:02,960
Speaker 3: a rolled back ball. But this might not be the case.

1514
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 5: I think it's good.

1515
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:06,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, it should in theory equalize that a little bit more.

1516
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:08,519
Speaker 8: I mean, they're still going to have an advantage, right,

1517
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 8: but it should equalize it a little bit more. I

1518
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:14,639
Speaker 8: think the other huge thing to look for. I don't

1519
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:17,840
Speaker 8: think carrying hazards is talked about enough in the value

1520
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 8: of distance discussion. But now with a five percent reduction

1521
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:27,800
Speaker 8: in absolute terms, there are going to be fewer hazards

1522
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:31,400
Speaker 8: that a long player can carry that a short player cannot.

1523
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 8: And so there you're going to be removing some of

1524
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 8: those scenarios where a Dustin Johnson, a Bryson, D Chambeau,

1525
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:41,719
Speaker 8: like some of those really long hitters Rory can carry

1526
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:46,040
Speaker 8: a bunker that other players cannot. And that's significant, right,

1527
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 8: Like if the difference between two drivers before was three

1528
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 8: hundred and eight versus a three hundred yard carry, so

1529
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:55,559
Speaker 8: eight yards, and now it's just a little bit smaller,

1530
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:56,759
Speaker 8: it's shrunk down.

1531
01:22:56,600 --> 01:22:59,840
Speaker 5: To whatever four or five yards. We'll see that just.

1532
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 8: Lessens the number of hazards that only the longest players

1533
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 8: could hit. So I think that's another way that this

1534
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:07,559
Speaker 8: could equalize things a little bit.

1535
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like a great example of a golf course like

1536
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 3: that is the Detroit Golf Club where Bryson won, you know,

1537
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 3: and he literally could hit it over every single hazard,

1538
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 3: but a shorter hitter still had to contend with all

1539
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 3: these bunkers.

1540
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 8: I'll give you another example that as you were saying

1541
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 8: that came right to my mind.

1542
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:28,839
Speaker 5: Hoole two at Quail Hollow.

1543
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 8: That's a shot that a lot of the long hitters

1544
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:35,599
Speaker 8: just send over the trees, and it's a huge advantage

1545
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:37,920
Speaker 8: if you can take that over the trees, dog leg

1546
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,679
Speaker 8: left and they just fire it over the over the trees.

1547
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 5: I'm interested. Can you still do that?

1548
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 8: Like we'll see with the I mean, I don't even

1549
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:48,000
Speaker 8: know if the PGA Tour is gonna adopt these the

1550
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:50,640
Speaker 8: new ball, but if they were to, that'd be a

1551
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:54,200
Speaker 8: really interesting t shot because that's a classic example of

1552
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:56,760
Speaker 8: where shorter players would benefit because now everyone would be

1553
01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:58,759
Speaker 8: sort of playing into the same location.

1554
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 3: All right, Joseph, people can find your work on Twitter,

1555
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 3: and thank you for coming on and giving lending your

1556
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 3: expertise here on strategy and how this could potentially impact

1557
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:13,759
Speaker 3: the top players and how they play golf courses.

1558
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 9: Thanks for having me appreciate it, Handy.

1559
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to another edition of the Frida

1560
01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:34,639
Speaker 3: Egg podcast. It was edited by Matt Rushes. Thank you, Matt.

1561
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:39,560
Speaker 3: As a reminder, we're barreling down on the Masters, this

1562
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 3: is right around the corner. If you want to get

1563
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 3: kind of inundated further into the game of golf and

1564
01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 3: you don't already check out the Friday newsletter. We just

1565
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 3: did a great one on this subject of the podcast

1566
01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:54,640
Speaker 3: you just listened to. It's available on the website, that

1567
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 3: edition of the newsletter and full I think, Garrett to

1568
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:00,960
Speaker 3: the word count is like three thousand words. We kind

1569
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 3: of split it up and dove into different topics about this.

1570
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 3: So if you're still looking for more, I mean, this

1571
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 3: is it's such a big topic. I mean I could

1572
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 3: do six hours of podcasts analyzing all the little areas

1573
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 3: that this.

1574
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:17,679
Speaker 5: Is going to go down.

1575
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 3: I think that's the fascinating thing is like there are

1576
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:24,800
Speaker 3: a lot of unforeseen consequences that not I don't consequences

1577
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 3: aren't isn't the right word, but unforeseen things that are

1578
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 3: going to happen from this, because that's what happens when

1579
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:36,759
Speaker 3: when big regulation happens, is that a lot of innovation happens.

1580
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,120
Speaker 3: I think that's the thing that's not being talked about enough,

1581
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:41,760
Speaker 3: is that, like, really, this is how kind of the

1582
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 3: world works. You regulate something and then people innovate off that.

1583
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:47,559
Speaker 3: So we're going to see some new stuff from this.

1584
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 3: So check out the Friday newsletter. I've diverted here, but

1585
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 3: it is a it is a nice morning read every Monday,

1586
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:00,160
Speaker 3: Wednesday Friday. It's free and it will keep you in

1587
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 3: tune with the game of golf and what's going on

1588
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:06,519
Speaker 3: the big topics, and again we put a lot of

1589
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:11,679
Speaker 3: effort into that. It's basically like a big article three

1590
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:15,200
Speaker 3: times a week from our staff. So thank you for listening,

1591
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 3: thank you for the support, and we'll be back next

1592
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 3: week with a new episode of the Friday Podcast.