1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: It is time for us to realize that we're too 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: great a nation to limit ourselves to small dreams. 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: It's the nineteen eighties. Ronald Reagan is President, Wall Street 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: is King. Bob Watchdell, then in his forties, was on 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 2: his way home after a long day on the Philadelphia 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 2: Stock Exchange. 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 3: I saw a young guy with another guy and they 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 3: were on the doorstep of one of these pretty houses. 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 3: They were playing Go, the Chinese game. 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 2: Bob was a clever guy. He majored in chemistry, had 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: a PhD in philosophy, was a competitive backgammon player, and 12 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 2: an ex professional gambler. He stopped to watch the two 13 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: young men in their twenties compete. 14 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 3: And this one guy, strapping young fellow was giving the 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 3: other kid he was playing a big handicap, a nine 16 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 3: stone handicap, which is sort of like giving somebody a 17 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 3: queen in chess or something like that. It's a huge, 18 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 3: huge handicap, and beating him easily. And that got my interest, 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 3: and I started talking to the kid, and that was 20 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 3: John Bender. He was kind of attractive. He was six 21 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 3: feet tall, burly, curly hair, and he had a nice, 22 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 3: you know, sardonic way about him. Where it was clear 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 3: that to him, ninety nine point nine percent of the 24 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 3: world were idiots. 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 2: Bob told him he was working in finance trading options. 26 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 3: Then he said, oh, you know, that's what I've always 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 3: dreamed of doing. I said, well, maybe I can do something. 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 2: So Bob called his financiers, most of them professional gamblers, 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 2: and told them about this brilliant kid he'd found they 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: should take him on. That, in short, was how a 31 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 2: twenty year old John Bender, a physics major who turned 32 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: down a place at Harvard, got his first job on 33 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Stock Exchange. Bob had made another good bet. 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: His guy would prove to be one of the most 35 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 2: successful financiers on Wall Street. John would make millions, reportedly 36 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: six hundred million dollars of personal wealth. That chance encounter 37 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 2: would change the course of John's life. Those millions would 38 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 2: pay for the Bender's place in paradise, but they would 39 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 2: also be fought over, bitterly fought over by business associates, 40 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: and crucially, those millions would be presented as a motive 41 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 2: when one of the Benders was accused of murder. From 42 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: Exactly Right Media and iHeart Podcasts produced by Blanchard House, 43 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: this is Helen Heaven. I'm Becky Milligan, Chapter four, A 44 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 2: Beautiful Mind. Anne and John were traumatized by the ambush 45 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: outside Rosemary's house. We know that the couple were increasingly reclusive, 46 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: John was obsessed with orchids. They've hired a former police 47 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: chief to protect them. Meanwhile, Anne's health keeps getting worse 48 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: despite John's attempts to find a cure for her. And 49 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: still no one in the valley really knows anything about 50 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: these two except that money is no problem. So what 51 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: kind of man makes six hundred million dollars? Well, let's 52 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: rewind the beginning. When John was a schoolboy. 53 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 4: I remember one conversation I had with him about a 54 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 4: multiple choice tests which he did not do well on, 55 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 4: and I talked to him about it, and he explained 56 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 4: to me how the question was wrong and the answer 57 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 4: that they were giving was wrong, and they didn't understand 58 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 4: what they were doing. And I said, John, if you 59 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 4: want to do well on his test, what you have 60 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 4: to do a cigurette? What the people did test want 61 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 4: you to do? What's the answer that they think is right. 62 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: I'm at Paul and Margi Bender's home in Phoenix, Arizona. 63 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: John's parents paul Is a distinguished legal academic, and Margie 64 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: a teacher. Back then in the nineteen seventies, they knew 65 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: they had a bright kid on their hands, not just bright, 66 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: but with an insatiable curious to the point of being 67 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: easily frustrated. And from the outside it might have appeared 68 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: he was a little arrogant. 69 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 4: He was always very critical and combative. 70 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 5: In that way, I knew he was very intelligent. 71 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: One of his old friends and colleagues, Jonathan Kaplan, wrote 72 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: this on his blog about John. It's voiced up by 73 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: one of our team. 74 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 6: I never saw anyone do puzzles as well as him. Ever, 75 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 6: John would hear or read the puzzle, then give you 76 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 6: the answer. I never ever saw him hesitate, no matter 77 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 6: what the source material. He always had the right answer immediately. 78 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 6: I never saw anyone do puzzles as well as him. 79 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,559 Speaker 5: He would do well to get with raising the test, 80 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 5: but it was not the enthusiasm with which he would 81 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 5: go after the things that really struck him as worthwhile 82 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 5: or really interesting or complicated, and they were. 83 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 4: Mostly complicated things in mathematical type of things he was on. 84 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 4: There was a math team at school. What they competed 85 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 4: around and they did very well, and the timulation enjoy that. 86 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 2: It was natural then for John to go from maths 87 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 2: to physics, a subject his dad had studied too before 88 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 2: law school, but hadn't found that easy. For John, though, 89 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: it was a breeze he saw. 90 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,799 Speaker 4: It was not a surprise that he measured in physics 91 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 4: and that he was working in a lab with some 92 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 4: physicists that seemed to be comfortable for him to do. 93 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 2: His parents saw a life in academia for their son. 94 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 2: The idea of that pleased them. He was going in 95 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: the right direction, and how did this super clever student relax? Well. 96 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: He liked playing games, but only ones that stretched his mind, 97 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: like go. Go was invented by the Chinese two five 98 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: hundred years ago, and it's thought to be the most 99 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 2: complex game ever devised by man. There's a checkerboard and 100 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: the competitors play with white and black stones. You have 101 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: to be really brainy to play well, so naturally it 102 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: appealed to John. There was even a go club a 103 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: few blocks away, run by Phil Strauss, who fancied himself 104 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: as a pretty good player. 105 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 7: We met at the breakfast room table in my house. 106 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 8: Somehow John showed up and wanted to learn how to 107 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 8: play Go, and I taught John how to play. I'm 108 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 8: a smart, analytical guy, and within a year he was. 109 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 7: Significantly better than I. I mean, it took my breath 110 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,119 Speaker 7: away how fast he got good. 111 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 9: I mean just amazing. 112 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 7: This is a peculiar game, and it appeals to peculiar people. 113 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: If you were really committed. The highlight of the year 114 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: was the Go Congress, where the best players in the 115 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: world would gather to talk, shop, play tournaments, and hang 116 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: on the words of the game's masters. John being the guy, 117 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: he was moved seamlessly from student to teacher. It would 118 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: become a pattern in his life. So this new player 119 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,239 Speaker 2: wasn't in the audience he was giving the lecture. 120 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 7: It was very unusual for an amateur to give a talk, 121 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 7: but John was an unusual person and gave a talk 122 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 7: on how he approached Go. I remember his style as 123 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 7: a Go player, and what I remember that I think 124 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 7: is significant, probably in terms of the rest of his life, 125 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 7: is that he was only concerned with ideas and go, 126 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 7: and to be an expert Go player you need to 127 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 7: do ideas and details. You know, to a Go player, 128 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 7: he seen arrogant because he was fixed in his view 129 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 7: of this is what's important. 130 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: He also had high expectations of his own nobilities, that 131 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: he could solve everything and by using his immense intellect, 132 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: he could always win. It explains why he believed he 133 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 2: could find and develop a cure for Anne's lymes disease, 134 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 2: which he never did, and when it didn't work out, 135 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: he was hard on himself, seeing it as a failure 136 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: that he had let himself and everyone else down. And 137 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: at these times he could spiral down into a dark 138 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: place which he would find difficult to pull himself out of. 139 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: There's something else we heard a lot about John. He 140 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 2: didn't like being told what to do. 141 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 4: You know. 142 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: He had what is sometimes called a problem with authority. 143 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 4: I was teaching in all law school then, and I 144 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 4: was talking to about something, and he got really upset 145 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 4: about the fact that people were telling me what to do, 146 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 4: my clients, or the cord was telling me. He was 147 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 4: very uncomfortable with that. 148 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 2: That problem would exist in the science lab too. 149 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 4: If you go into a physics department at a university, 150 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 4: you're in an apartment and you've told what to do 151 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 4: by the chairman and the mean and all that kind 152 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 4: of stuff. And he was always uncomfortable with that kind 153 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 4: of arrangement, so. 154 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 2: In the end, when it came to a career choice, 155 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: he went in an entirely different direction, turning his back 156 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 2: on academia and his parents' expectations, leaving them baffled. 157 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 4: We were assuming he was going to go to graduate 158 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 4: school in physics because that's what he was measuring, and 159 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 4: he'd worked with people in the physics department while he 160 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 4: was an undergraduate. 161 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 2: But John told his dad that the physics lab wasn't 162 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 2: for him. 163 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 4: He decided to invark on a career as basically as 164 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 4: a gambler. 165 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 2: Yep, johna decided to forget physics and become a gambler. 166 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: It's not what his parents had planned for their eldest. 167 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 4: Asked them what was doing and he said he was 168 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 4: playing blackjack and he said, I said, well, what do 169 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 4: you do? He said you can make money that way 170 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 4: and I said, yeah, I guess you can, but it's 171 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 4: not reliable. He said, oh, no, it's quite reliable. And 172 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 4: I said how do you do that? And he said, 173 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 4: you card count and you just watch what cards are 174 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 4: out and then that changes the odds, and when the 175 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 4: odds are in your favor, you start playing, and he said, 176 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 4: I'll show you, and so we got a couple of 177 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 4: decks of cards and we went through a bunch of 178 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 4: hands and he kept winning. He got to be very 179 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,479 Speaker 4: good at it, obviously. 180 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: So John would go to the nearby casinos and play 181 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 2: blackjack into the early hours and was making good money. Blackjack, 182 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: just in case you don't know, is a card game. 183 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: You need to get to twenty one or as close 184 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: as possible. If you go over, you lose. 185 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 10: I remember being in Atlantic City with John where he 186 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 10: used to card count. 187 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: Steve, one of John's old friends. 188 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 10: And they told him no that he had been body 189 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 10: and they kicked us out and he wasn't allowed to 190 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 10: go back to Atlantic City. 191 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 9: We laughed. 192 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: Was he good at it? 193 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 9: Amazing? 194 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: And it's that reputation that served him well in his 195 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 2: next career on Wall Street. 196 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 4: I think it was the gambling that attracted people to 197 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 4: invest with him. 198 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: Back to that street corner in Philadelphia, where this incredibly 199 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: smart guy who questioned authority and had an innate belief 200 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 2: that he could always win, bumped into stockbroker Bob Watchdow. 201 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 2: A door opened on a new world, though it wasn't 202 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: actually completely new. 203 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 3: It turns out that he'd done a lot of work 204 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 3: in stock trading anyway, even when he was under age. 205 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 2: John was only seventeen. 206 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 3: There was an office of some brokers right at the 207 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: foot of the stock exchange, and he would sit in 208 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 3: that office watching the ticker and make trades. You know, 209 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 3: had made a good living, you know, just by himself, 210 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 3: with no bankroll. 211 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: And now in nineteen eighty five, age twenty and finance 212 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: by Bob's gambling friends, John embarked on his new career. 213 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 3: You're in what they call a pit, and it's like, 214 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 3: that's not a bad description of what it is, but 215 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 3: you had to stand the whole time, for seven or 216 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 3: eight hours in a crowd of idiots, screaming, marking out 217 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 3: their turf, cursing at you. Meanwhile, you're looking up at 218 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 3: a board that has a bunch of numbers, trying to 219 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 3: figure out patterns and trying to figure out prices. You 220 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 3: have brokers coming in and out with orders. 221 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: This is where John Bender found himself on the path 222 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,239 Speaker 2: to making his fortune. 223 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 3: Before we knew it, John was down on the floor 224 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 3: and he was immediately just brilliant at it. One of 225 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 3: my friends who'd put the thing together the organizer of 226 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 3: the financial group. He said to me, well, Bob, you 227 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 3: have to teach John the ropes. So we're going to 228 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 3: give you eight percent of his winnings or whatever, but 229 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 3: you have to be there and you have to, you know, 230 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 3: explain things to him. And I said, there's no way 231 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 3: I can explain anything to him. He could only explain 232 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 3: things to me, and it would be futile for me 233 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 3: to even try. 234 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: At the time, there were regular seminars for the options traders. 235 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 2: Someone would give a. 236 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 3: Talk and then afterwards there was a little quiz and 237 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: they'd say, well, okay, you have this spread. Now what 238 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 3: will happen in six months if volatility does this and 239 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 3: the price goes up and you know, And before anybody 240 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 3: else could answer, John had to answer every time. And 241 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 3: these were all pros. These were all people who'd been 242 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 3: doing it for years and years, they're doing it their 243 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 3: whole lives. Always knew the answer and it was right away. 244 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: Really, you didn't only spot his potential, but did you 245 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: suspect that there was some sort of genius inside that 246 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 2: young guy? 247 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 4: Yeah? 248 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 3: I mean I was lucky. I made a lucky guest. 249 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: So John put his brilliant mind to work, and this 250 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: time he started making serious money. But that wasn't the 251 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 2: only reason he got noticed. So what was he actually doing? 252 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: What is options trading? 253 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: Basically it's you against the public. You're a middleman between 254 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 3: buyers and sellers of these options, and options are very 255 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: complex and difficult to value. 256 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 2: It's complicated and risky. In short, an option is a 257 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 2: contract which gives the investor a right to buy something 258 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: at a certain date in the future at a pre 259 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: negotiated price. Basically, the investors make a bet on how 260 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: a stock will perform. If it does better than expected, 261 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: you're in the money. So it's suited x scam. And 262 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: for John he could use his brain to mathematically work 263 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: out how to reduce the risk, and he started to 264 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 2: develop all sorts of strategies and systems which would give 265 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: him an advantage over all the other traders, which I 266 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: guess by now you'd have expected him to do. Bob 267 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 2: and John began to hang out together outside work, despite 268 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: their age difference, John in his twenties Bob in his forties. 269 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: They became good buddies and went out on the town. 270 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 3: He wasn't a strange genius. He was not a you know, 271 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 3: Mozart or somebody like. I mean, he was fun to 272 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: talk to. And he was also great with the ladies. 273 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: When you say great, great with the women or whatever, 274 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: what does that mean. 275 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he was. He just had a lot 276 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 3: of girls like them and maybe they, you know, had 277 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 3: heard from their girlfriends that he was good, I mean sexually. 278 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 2: He had a reputation. 279 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, from what I know. Yeah, he was young 280 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 3: and handsome, and you know, he would tell me some 281 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 3: stories about them. He just thought of it as a 282 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 3: matter of fact, as that's the way life is. And 283 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 3: this is you know, I mean, this one's chasing me. 284 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: This one insisted that I it was sort of like 285 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 3: a bit of a you know, it's a bit of 286 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: a hassle. 287 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 2: So girls were basically beating down his door. Yeah, this 288 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 2: could all be locker room chat, of course. And all 289 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: this being a ladies man was before he met Anne. 290 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: When they weren't in the pit or out on the town, 291 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: John did a little modeling, and Bob says he sometimes 292 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 2: sat as an artist model and even appeared in porn films. 293 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 2: Although we didn't speak to anyone who saw the evidence, 294 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 2: both Bob and John spent the early mornings in the gym. 295 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 3: We actually did a lot of physical things like tennis 296 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 3: and working out. We did a lot of working out together. 297 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 3: He was quite strong, but terribly efficient when he was 298 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 3: working out. Could he never use the same muscle twice 299 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 3: without knowing why he was doing it. 300 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 2: Steve was twenty when he first ran into John in 301 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: the gym. 302 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 10: Of course, one day I walked into the gym at 303 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 10: seven thirty in the morning to work out. John was 304 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 10: in there working out. I had never met him, and 305 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 10: I said, what body parts are you working today? He said, 306 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 10: I'm doing legs. I said, well, I have to back 307 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 10: and biceps is today? Let's go do back and biceps. 308 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 10: John said, oh okay. And it was kind of crazy 309 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 10: because John looked at me, like, who's this black guy 310 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 10: that's taken over? 311 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: From that moment Tom. They were firm friends. 312 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 10: And I would call John on a Saturday night and 313 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 10: tell him I have a poor aready that we can 314 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 10: go to, and he said, well, I don't know if 315 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 10: I can go. I said, come on, John, you're with me. 316 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 10: I'm black, you're a Jewish kid. I'll make sure you're okay. 317 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 10: And we would go hang out for the night to 318 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 10: see John. When a nightclub floor and dancing was funny 319 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 10: because John didn't know how to dance at all, and 320 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 10: we would be there for five hours. He was very 321 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 10: good at meeting girls, and I was the type that 322 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 10: wasn't good at that at all. 323 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 2: Did you learn from John how to how to sort 324 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:33,719 Speaker 2: of chat up girls? 325 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 9: Then, of course a lot. 326 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 10: John just would wink. He would looked at them, and 327 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 10: he would wink at them, and then he would turn 328 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 10: away and if sudly, look again to see if that 329 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 10: person's interested, and he would kick up one ed. And 330 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 10: as I got older, I learned to do that by 331 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 10: being around job. He had very few friends, but his 332 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 10: friends were very, very good friends. I don't think John 333 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 10: wanted that many people around. I remember one night John 334 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 10: telling me that money is only green paper, and he's 335 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 10: going to make as much of it as you want. 336 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 10: He told me that, he said, you'll come work for 337 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 10: me one day. It never happened. 338 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 2: Working out was one thing John continued to do in 339 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: Costa Rica, where he had a vast gym. But with 340 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 2: all that bravado, Bob never heard his friend raise his 341 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 2: voice or have a fight. He recalls John being quiet, kind, 342 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 2: He had a thoughtful side, so. 343 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 3: I remember him being incredibly gentle with some kind of 344 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 3: little insect where it was in his way or something 345 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 3: like that, and he just like, he's this big, strong 346 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 3: guy and he just moved it so gently. Like that 347 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 3: struck me. I never forgot that, you know, he didn't 348 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 3: swat it away or something like that or squish it. 349 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 2: That was forty years ago, but Bob will never forget it, 350 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 2: because well, it wasn't what he expected John to do. 351 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 2: John was having a good time and he was making 352 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 2: a lot of money, but that was troubling for his parents. 353 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 2: One question kept coming up, Margue. 354 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 4: We keep asking you what he can do with all 355 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 4: this money? 356 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: What are you going to do with all this money? 357 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 2: It seemed to be in direct opposition to their fundamental 358 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: values in Arizona. Paul and Marghy reflected on it. 359 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 4: If he were into science or education something like that, 360 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 4: you would have been a lot more comfortable with that 361 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 4: than his going into a field that you know absolutely 362 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 4: nothing about him that seemed to have a lot to 363 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 4: do with money, because you have never been interested in no. 364 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 5: I mean that's one of the things about me that 365 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 5: I guess nobody understands. But having a lot of money 366 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 5: was never something I wanted. If I had had it, 367 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 5: I would have spent it on somebody else. 368 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 4: She is an affirmative dislike for worrying about money or 369 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 4: caring about it. And he's in this business and that's 370 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 4: all you do. 371 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 2: They found his desire to accumulate more and more money 372 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: working twenty four seven very hard to understand, and the 373 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 2: way they talk about it, I can see how much 374 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 2: it worried them. 375 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 4: All those people are like that. I mean they never 376 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 4: leave their job because their job is investing and they're 377 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 4: looking for things to buy and sell and it can 378 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 4: happen at any time, and so they always have something 379 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 4: with them that they can do business on. And yeah, 380 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 4: it was a very engrossing kind of thing to do, 381 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 4: and he really liked it. I mean it was a game, 382 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 4: it was a puzzle, it was something to win at exciting. Yeah, no, 383 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 4: I think so. And it keeps changing. I mean it's 384 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 4: a constant game to try to win that. I think 385 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 4: that's the way he looked at it, to try to 386 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,959 Speaker 4: figure out what to do to win the game, and 387 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 4: he kept trying to do that. So, yeah, it was 388 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 4: all engrossing. When you do I don't think you can 389 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 4: do that and not be completely involved in it. 390 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: The thing was that that desire to win it was insatiable. 391 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 2: It became all that mattered to John Well. 392 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 3: He just wanted to go for it and proved that 393 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 3: he was right that he was never satisfied no matter 394 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 3: how much money he'd made, no matter how well he'd 395 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 3: done it, because even if he'd made a winning trade, 396 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 3: he could have bet more, and he should have seen 397 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 3: what was going to happen when I knew him. That's 398 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 3: all that seemed to interest him was getting to the 399 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 3: next level and doing it better and playing with the 400 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 3: big players. 401 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:35,959 Speaker 4: You know, playing with the big boys. 402 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 2: Playing with the big boys meant playing hardball. We've been 403 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: told that not everyone liked how he went about it, 404 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 2: but that didn't stop him. 405 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 3: You're in that game where you're playing for high stakes. 406 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 3: There was no mister nice guy. 407 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 2: He sounded out pretty confident when he was making these bets, 408 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: you know, putting on his positions. He knew he was clever. 409 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 3: More than clever signified being way above the norm, way 410 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 3: above the norm. 411 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety six, he moved into the financial big 412 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 2: league and set up a hedge fund Amber Arbitrage with 413 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: a man named Joel Silverman. Joel Silverman had more than 414 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 2: twenty five years experience in the finance world, and he 415 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 2: unlocked a new world for John. He knew everyone that mattered, 416 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 2: and in nineteen ninety six he invited John up to 417 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: New York and threw him a party to introduce him 418 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 2: to potential investors. One crucial introduction was with George Soros, 419 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: one of the most famous financiers in the world. Joel 420 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 2: had known him for twenty three years and had managed 421 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 2: money for him for ten. According to court documents, George 422 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: Soros invited John and Joel over to his home. Over dinner, 423 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 2: Joel told George about John's brilliance in the financial markets, 424 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: the enormous returns he'd made, and the speed at which 425 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 2: he'd made his millions. It must have gone down well. 426 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 2: George Soros would later invest one hundred and forty million 427 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 2: dollars in the new fund. The Hedge Fund was doing 428 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 2: incredibly well. Reportedly, John was on course to be a 429 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: billionaire by the age of forty. It's nineteen ninety nine 430 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 2: and John was booked in for a dinner. 431 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 11: Date, so coming to New York did gevi There. 432 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 2: Jack Schwager remember him. He would visit John and Anne 433 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: in Costa Rica with his son Zach a couple of 434 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: years later. This was where they first met. As well 435 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 2: as being a financier himself, Jack was also the author 436 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 2: of the book Market Wizards, a series of interviews with 437 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 2: very successful traders. John had caught his eye. They were 438 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 2: meeting in a fancy sushi restaurant in New York. 439 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 11: It's a guy and the hulking kind of almost think 440 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 11: a football linebacker type build, and he had a suit 441 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 11: on and a tie, and the shirt and suit seemed 442 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 11: to be straining, you know, from the bulk of his 443 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 11: frame and ditinct thing looked like this is not what 444 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 11: he normally wears. 445 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 2: But John soon relaxed and Jack, over their meals, started 446 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 2: asking questions about how John had made his millions. He 447 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 2: found John and his methods fascinating. He turned the rule 448 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: book on its head. 449 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 11: His very method of trading was kind of a Maverick 450 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 11: way of trading, not the way most people trade options, 451 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 11: and he was always looking for things that were kind 452 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 11: of a bit different with people were looking at. 453 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 2: Jack was so impressed he later invested with John and 454 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 2: his fund and this gives you an idea of the 455 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 2: sums of money we're talking about. 456 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 11: You know, I kind of personally profited from from his skill. Yeah, 457 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 11: Like I tell people, he was probably the best investment 458 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 11: there ever. 459 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 12: Med I think, I think I'm some ridiculous amount. 460 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 11: I think I maybe made two hundred and fifty percent 461 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 11: on my investment that year or. 462 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 4: Something like that. 463 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, two hundred and fifty percent. Jack was struck by 464 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 2: something else. John confided that he had a plan, a dream. 465 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 2: He decided how he would use his fortune to move 466 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 2: to Costa Rica and build a nature reserve. 467 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 4: Yeah. 468 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 12: I interview lots of people who have been very successful 469 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 12: in market, said, what people do with that money ranges 470 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 12: quite wildly. 471 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 3: I kind of admired him. 472 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 12: For basically using his money for trying to preserve rainforest. 473 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 12: I thought that was a noble thing to do. 474 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 2: Bob remembers this too. 475 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 3: There came a point when he didn't want to trade 476 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 3: anymore and where he wanted to do something with his. 477 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 2: His parents were relieved and assured that John had an 478 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 2: endgame and an exit strategy, which they approved of. 479 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 4: I wasn't interested in how much money he was making. 480 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 4: I was interested in money's going to do with it 481 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 4: because it was quite a lie, I think. And he 482 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 4: said they were going to buy a place to live, 483 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 4: and then looked around the world. They finally found this 484 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 4: place in Costa Rica that they bought, and then he 485 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 4: used a lot of the money to buy that land 486 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 4: and the build learn the house. 487 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 2: And the move couldn't come soon enough. John was beginning 488 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 2: to be disillusioned with the finance world, spotting before anyone 489 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 2: else that one financier Bernie Madoff was up to no good. 490 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: Bernie Madoff, the guy who ran the largest Ponzi scheme 491 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 2: in history, worked close to sixty five billion dollars, who 492 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: would later be sentenced to one hundred and fifty years 493 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 2: in jail. John's views about Madoff came up when Jack 494 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: and his son Zach visited John in Costa Rica in 495 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: the early two thousands. Zach recalls how the conversation went. 496 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: And He's going on and on about this particular trader, 497 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: this particular investment guy. And as he goes on, he 498 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: goes deeper. He's like, I called this person. I called 499 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: that person. Nobody's listening to me. So we started to 500 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: get like kind of irritated. The person that he was 501 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: talking about was Bernie made off. And this guy was 502 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: telling me clear as day that this man was like 503 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: a monster froster. And he's tried to contact everybody that 504 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: he knows and tell him that what he is doing 505 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: is impossible, can't be done. That He's poured over the 506 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: financial statements himself. 507 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 2: As John moved into the world of the financial elite, 508 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 2: he left his old friend Bob watched her behind. Bob 509 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,719 Speaker 2: had got John into finance in the first place, of course, 510 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 2: starting on that street corner in Philadelphia. But Bob had 511 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 2: now run into money trouble. The tables had turned. Bob 512 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 2: had watched his protege rise to the top. Now he 513 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 2: needed John's help. 514 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 3: I asked John whether I couldn't do some trading with 515 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 3: him financing me, and he was a little bit luke warm. 516 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 2: About it, but did agree to finance a new enterprise 517 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: that Bob was working on. It would be one of 518 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: John's less successful investments. 519 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 3: I had come up with the idea around that time 520 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 3: of creating a food product. 521 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 4: It would be a cheese chip. 522 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 3: I'd understood that when you have a pizza and there's 523 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 3: a part of it that's a little crunchy and burned 524 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 3: and delicious. 525 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 2: What did you call it? 526 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 3: By the way, volcanic hyper cheese. 527 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 2: It turned out someone else already had the idea. 528 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 3: Once we found that out, that was it. 529 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 4: My gig was up. 530 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 2: That's a shame. 531 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. 532 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 2: Was John upset about it? Did he regret giving you 533 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 2: or funding you? 534 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 3: No, he didn't regret it. But I remember, like I 535 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 3: showed him my little business card and he said, oh, well, 536 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 3: that was really your wet dream, wasn't it. 537 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 2: Bob to his regret, lost touch with his buddy John 538 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 2: and never got to see his place. In Costa Rica 539 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 2: ninety nine, at the age of thirty four, John had 540 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 2: met and fallen for Anne, the beautiful but troubled, fine 541 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 2: art brad They were living in Virginia. John was already 542 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 2: planning their new life, buying up land in the Costa 543 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 2: Rican jungle. But a year later things would change dramatically 544 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 2: for the couple. John was treated for either a mild 545 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 2: aneurysm or a stroke. Were not one hundred percent sure, 546 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 2: but it was a health scare that marked something significant. 547 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 2: He told Anne that he was ready to jack in trading. 548 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: It was time to fulfill his dream and move his 549 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 2: money out of America. According to the Wall Street Journal. 550 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 2: Following a few months recovering, John resigned from his hedge 551 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 2: fund and it was wound down. Their life in Costa 552 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 2: Rica began, But what should have been a simpler life 553 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 2: was anything but. Closing the business wasn't quite as simple 554 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 2: as John had hoped. It marked the start of legal 555 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 2: battles with former associates, including Joel Silverman, who claimed he 556 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: was owed money. Huge sums were involved, millions. John stopped 557 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: taking Joel's calls. Silverman would later contend that the profit 558 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 2: split had been agreed at seventy five percent to John 559 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: and twenty five percent to Joel. John said this was 560 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 2: never put in writing. The dispute would rumble on for years. 561 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: John would say in en affidavit that he believed when 562 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 2: the Costa Rican police arrested him on that quiet street 563 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 2: outside Rosemary's seed business, it was all down to Silverman 564 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 2: pursuing him about money he was allegedly owed, a claim 565 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 2: that was never proven. Joel Silverman's claim against John is 566 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: read by an actor. 567 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 13: This is an action for breach of contract, interference with contract, 568 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 13: breach of fiduciary duty, conversion and unjustin Richmond, arising out 569 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 13: of an agreement between my client and defendant John Bender. 570 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 13: My client, through this action seeks an accounting and recruitment 571 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 13: of all the most fees, which may exceed thirty million dollars. 572 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 2: While Joel Silverman has not addressed the kidnapping allegation directly 573 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 2: in court documents, he said it had not proved possible 574 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: to find John and serve him as he didn't know 575 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 2: in which country John was residing. We did try and 576 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 2: reach the Silverman family, but didn't receive a reply. We 577 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 2: understand he may not have been the only former associate 578 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 2: who felt duped by John. Others took him to court 579 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 2: two with similar complaints. This might explain why Michael the 580 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: Mercenary was sent to retrieve John and bring him back 581 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 2: to the US. The depths of the bitterness can't be understated. 582 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 2: It involved hundreds of millions of dollars, a genius and 583 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 2: a gentleman's agreement. Now in Costa Rica, John wanted to 584 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: find some peace of mind. He hoped to escape from 585 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 2: the world which was constantly snapping at his heels and 586 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 2: threatening to destroy his dream. He wanted to use his 587 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 2: brilliant brain for something entirely different. Flowers in an archived website. 588 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 2: Producer Poppy found the Selby Botanical Gardens Dispatch, published summer 589 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, featuring a picture of John Jeans 590 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 2: a rucksack and a sun hat in the middle of 591 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 2: lush rainforest. He looks every bit the adventurer and happy. 592 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 2: Here's Poppy with some more of that dispatch. 593 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 14: This reserve is privately owned and lovingly managed by Anne 594 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 14: Patten and John Bender. We were invited by the generous 595 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 14: owners of Borakayanne to do an inventory survey of the 596 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 14: plants in the reserve, including orchids. This promised to be 597 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,399 Speaker 14: a very exciting project since this area is well known 598 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 14: for its biodiversity, but is also poorly explored scientifically. 599 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 2: The scientists even discovered a new species, and it was 600 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 2: named Gongora Boracaya nensis after the area of origin and 601 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 2: in honor of Anne Patten and John Bender's passion for 602 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,439 Speaker 2: orchid conservation in Costa Rica. Remember Bora Kayam was John 603 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 2: and Anne's made up name for their home. John's parents 604 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 2: had shown us pictures of the orchids, too, vibrant pinks 605 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 2: and orange, almost like something from out of space or 606 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 2: the deepest ocean. 607 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 4: I'm saying to myself, this is really unbelievable. He is 608 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 4: understanding the stuff, he is changing. He is understanding in 609 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 4: ways that other people have not understood it. I thought 610 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,879 Speaker 4: that was just amazing that you can have that kind 611 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 4: of feeling about land and nature around you, which he 612 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 4: had developed with the house. That's a really puzzlive sting. 613 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 2: What they had planted had truly blossomed. Remember, as Valdo said, 614 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 2: John was planning on using an entire floor of the 615 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 2: house as an orchid laboratory, but never saw it through 616 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 2: that archive newsletter we just heard from hidden on the Internet, 617 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 2: showed the joy and pride that John took in what 618 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 2: he'd created. In a way. I wish we could stop 619 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 2: the story here. It would have a happy ending. This 620 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 2: restless genius who was searching for a dream and an 621 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 2: inner piece had found it. He was surrounded by the 622 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 2: jungle animals, his flowers, and he was living in his 623 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,399 Speaker 2: enormous house, his wife beside him. By two thousand and eight, 624 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 2: most of their legal battles had been settled. They invested 625 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 2: their remaining cash ninety million dollars into a Costa Rican 626 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 2: Base Trust, which was intended to protect their money and 627 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 2: the future of the wildlife reserve. Legally, Anne and John 628 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 2: now worked for the trust. The lawyer who managed it all, 629 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 2: Juan Alvarez, would have power of attorney, meaning he now 630 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 2: controlled John and Anne's fortune. Remember that name, who'll become 631 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 2: important later in our story. Crucially, the trust protected them 632 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 2: from future claims on their money from creditors who believed 633 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 2: that the Benders owed them cash. But for all the 634 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 2: positive steps, it wasn't enough. Feelings of despair arose. We 635 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 2: learned this was nothing new for John. Bob again if. 636 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 3: He mentioned that he was on the edge in a 637 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 3: lot of ways emotionally a few times in his life, 638 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 3: but you know, it was sort of like he was 639 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 3: too bright to exist in the world with these other 640 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 3: ordinary people. 641 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 2: We asked John's parents about what Anne would call his 642 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 2: bipolar disorder. 643 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 4: I don't think we ever did a diagnosis of that, 644 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 4: but that's servant very clausible to me. I meant, also, 645 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 4: I get very depressed, and he was depressed, and I 646 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 4: don't know about the hypom me. Maybe that's why he 647 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 4: was so good at some things that he could do. 648 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 4: So I've never heard that feeling, but I understand that 649 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,720 Speaker 4: the mood swings. I hadn't. Also he has, I'm probably 650 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 4: more than I. 651 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 2: In two thousand and eight, John spiraled down into a 652 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 2: deep depression. Whaka John's beloved bird was killed. He was devastated, 653 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 2: he told Anne. 654 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 9: The day after the house betraying me. 655 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 2: In the next chapter, everything comes crashing down. John starts 656 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 2: to unravel as an email from him, which Anne later 657 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:43,359 Speaker 2: shared with CBS, appears to show voiced here by an actor, losing. 658 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 4: My fucking mind right now. 659 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 13: First sick again, and now this shit. 660 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 9: Today's a total fucking nightmare, and tomorrow will get worse. 661 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 3: Just when I was feeling I could learn to be happy, 662 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 3: now I get this and I want to be dead. 663 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 2: That's next time on Hell in Heaven. 664 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 9: Such a total fucking loser for ever getting involved with 665 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 9: the scumbags. 666 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 2: You've been listening to Helen Heaven from Exactly Right Media 667 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 2: and IHART podcasts produced by Blanchard House, hosted, written and 668 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,280 Speaker 2: produced by me Becky Milligan. The producer and co writer 669 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 2: is Poppy Damon. Music is by Daniel Lloyd Evans, Louis Nankmanell, 670 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 2: and Toby Mattamol. The sound recordist and head of sound 671 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,280 Speaker 2: and music is Daniel Lloyd Evans. The lead sound designer 672 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 2: is Vulcan Kiseltoog. The artwork is by Vanessa Lilac for 673 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 2: Exactly Right Media. The executive producers are Karen Kilgarreth, Georgia Hardstark, 674 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 2: and Danielle Kramer, with consulting producers Lilly Ladderwig and associate 675 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 2: producer Jay Elias. The creative director of Blanchard House is 676 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 2: Rosie Pye. The executive producer and head of Content at 677 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 2: Blanchard House is Lawrence Griselle. Listen to Helen Heaven on 678 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your 679 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 2: podcasts