Speaker 1: Hello, My name is Jason Cumcio and I'm Rosie Night, and.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to X ray Vision at our new home
Speaker 2: for the podcast. This is the podcast where we're still
Speaker 2: diving deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.
Speaker 2: We're coming to you now from iHeartRadio, where we will
Speaker 2: be bringing you two episodes a week every Tuesday and Thursday,
Speaker 2: and we're starting with a giant sized episode celebrating Free
Speaker 2: Comic Book Day with DC and indie comic giant James Tynan.
Speaker 1: In today's episode.
Speaker 3: In the previously on we are talking about that wild
Speaker 3: Deadpool and Wolverine trailer, which is.
Speaker 1: Gonna have us saying the word life out's feet.
Speaker 3: We're gonna have a new section called back Maha where
Speaker 3: I'm explain what's Free Comic Book Day? Why are we
Speaker 3: talking about it? Can you really get free comics? The
Speaker 3: answer is yes. And we'll also be talking about Professor X,
Speaker 3: that cheeky little man, that cheeky little.
Speaker 4: Guy, sneaky Useing Bostard Charles, and of course Magneto and
Speaker 4: his fate and all of those X Men things as
Speaker 4: we catch up with X Men ninety seven weekly.
Speaker 1: Because of course, we have to do it come on?
Speaker 2: Well, the long awaited project Deadpool and Wolverine, it has
Speaker 2: met Sean Levy, It has a name, the third installment
Speaker 2: in the Wild Deadpool series and the one that is
Speaker 2: going to introduce a whole bunch of X characters to
Speaker 2: our larger MCU framework. The trailer has dropped and it's
Speaker 2: time to talk about it.
Speaker 5: Rosie Wow crazy, And they went fully into this kind
Speaker 5: of thesis that they have, which seems to be that.
Speaker 3: You know, Deadpool has to recruit a version of Wolverine
Speaker 3: from a different universe.
Speaker 1: It seems where he let everyone down and they.
Speaker 3: All died, so it's logan esque, but in Logan he
Speaker 3: dies obviously, and we get the classic blue and yellow costume.
Speaker 1: We get the typical.
Speaker 3: Recruitment at a bar. It's very meta and referential. Of course,
Speaker 3: we get some Deadpool humor with his branded gun.
Speaker 1: This looks like a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: And obviously for comic book fans, there was a huge
Speaker 3: silly easter egg that we were all dying over, which
Speaker 3: is the life Failed Feet Store.
Speaker 1: Oh god, that's that's the big one.
Speaker 3: Because obviously everyone in comics history, who I have to say,
Speaker 3: I'm a I disagree on this.
Speaker 1: But people used to rag on Rob Liifelf for not
Speaker 1: having feet. But if you've actually.
Speaker 3: Read those old Rob Liefel comics, he was like an
Speaker 3: abstract genius in his twenties.
Speaker 1: Those comics are not supposed to look like.
Speaker 3: Real anatomy feet antimal, but it is hilarious.
Speaker 2: It is hilarious. Let me just first say it is
Speaker 2: a little overblown. The thing about the feet is that
Speaker 2: either one they're kind of not in the picture often, yes,
Speaker 2: you look back at the old, original life old stuff,
Speaker 2: or the characters are so bulky and top heavy with
Speaker 2: all the muscles and cargo pouches on their uniforms that
Speaker 2: it makes the feet look tiny in comparison.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like Bruce tim feet, you know, like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: the anime. It's serious figurines that you can never ever
Speaker 1: ever stand up.
Speaker 3: But the truth is, I think if you go back
Speaker 3: and you look at like Depo's first appearance the New
Speaker 3: Mutants ninety eight, which hilariously was like a dollobang comic
Speaker 3: when we were growing up, but it's now obviously like
Speaker 3: a very collectible comic, I actually think Lifefeld is like
Speaker 3: a bit of an abstract genius like his Aye is
Speaker 3: so strange and different, and I think that's part of
Speaker 3: the reason that people completely fell for it in the nineties.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's you touched on it. The thing
Speaker 2: which is like his twenties, He was like nineteen, he
Speaker 2: was a baby when he became a best selling comic artist,
Speaker 2: superstar artist, and I think it's impossible to overstate what
Speaker 2: a breath of fresh air he felt like at the time.
Speaker 2: And while it's easy to kind of mock his style
Speaker 2: because it is so recognizable, it also felt like a
Speaker 2: very necessary break with the past. At the time. It
Speaker 2: felt like, Oh, this is new, this is like a
Speaker 2: new energy in comics. Anyway, the easter egg that I
Speaker 2: personally loved was the huge Hank Pym skull out of
Speaker 2: which our characters come in one scene from the trailer
Speaker 2: that appears to me to be a kind of reference
Speaker 2: to Pim Falls, which is a detail from Old Man Logan,
Speaker 2: the series which the movie Logan was adapted.
Speaker 3: Well, I was gonna say, I actually think we in
Speaker 3: a meta kind of way. I think this actually might
Speaker 3: be more of a close adaptation of Old Man Logan,
Speaker 3: because Logan wasn't really that it was kind of a
Speaker 3: complete it was take Logan, he's old, He's in the
Speaker 3: post apocalypse, what do you do?
Speaker 1: But this has some real nods towards it.
Speaker 3: I mean they talk about how Logan let down his
Speaker 3: whole team, he let down the X Men.
Speaker 1: Obviously in Old Men, Logan he kills all of the.
Speaker 3: X Men with an because of RP and spoiler alert
Speaker 3: for an old comic, because he is kind of tricked
Speaker 3: by a magneto. And we also get some stuff here
Speaker 3: that just looks like it could be more into that
Speaker 3: wasteland space. We get the Red Skull car, which kind
Speaker 3: of could hint that maybe the Red Skull has killed
Speaker 3: the Avengers, which is another thing from Old Man Logan.
Speaker 3: So it's very interesting and it's just full of Easter eggs.
Speaker 3: And I also think one of the biggest things is
Speaker 3: everything we've seen from this movie has probably been from
Speaker 3: like ten minutes.
Speaker 1: Of the movie. That's how it really.
Speaker 3: Feels, and that's how it always and I feel like
Speaker 3: here it's extra obvious, and I think that's why for
Speaker 3: some people I was really interested to see. Like for
Speaker 3: some people, this trailer didn't hit whereas like in our
Speaker 3: discord and in my kind of circles, everyone.
Speaker 1: Was like loving it.
Speaker 3: I did see for some people they were kind of like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not sure if this is for me.
Speaker 3: Sean Levy said, it's a no homework movie, so you
Speaker 3: can just go in and enjoy it. Though obviously I
Speaker 3: think it's funny when people say that because also I'm like,
Speaker 3: Cassandra Nova is in this movie.
Speaker 2: Yea, it is clearly like a big part of the plot.
Speaker 3: Like you could argue that the amt Man head or
Speaker 3: the Hank Pim head is also like that could be
Speaker 3: from what because we saw the Giant Zombie and you know,
Speaker 3: but we do get some other fun mutants here.
Speaker 1: We get to see Lady death Strike, probably Callisto.
Speaker 3: I think, so we're gonna see those Fox characters as Zazel's.
Speaker 1: In there, and I do think that we were kind
Speaker 1: of right.
Speaker 3: Will see when the movie comes out, but we'd kind
Speaker 3: of proposed this theory of our live show at like
Speaker 3: Comic Con, that it was going to be Deadpool kills
Speaker 3: the Fox universe, and it does kind of seem like that,
Speaker 3: but it also seems like he's gonna have to save it.
Speaker 3: We also get dog Pool, which I loved, and they're
Speaker 3: doing a lot of teleporting Doctor Strange's style.
Speaker 1: So basically it's completely bonkers and we'll have to wait
Speaker 1: to see what happens.
Speaker 2: Now, the question which we it feels like we asked
Speaker 2: all the time on our old show, and I think
Speaker 2: which is quite present with the release of this trailer,
Speaker 2: is what does this mean for the X Men? How
Speaker 2: do we get the X Men into the MCU? The
Speaker 2: Time Variance Authority gives us one version where they're from
Speaker 2: an altered universe, but how do you how do you
Speaker 2: think it happens? How do you think they do it?
Speaker 3: So I think that the end of this movie will
Speaker 3: probably be that all the Fox versions of the X
Speaker 3: Men are dead, right? Will they be able to get
Speaker 3: you know, Santa Stark to come back after a.
Speaker 1: Much maligned performance. I don't know. It depends how good
Speaker 1: Sean Levy.
Speaker 3: Is a schmoozing, but I think that we'll end up
Speaker 3: in a position where we can have entirely new X
Speaker 3: Men and probably where like only Deadpool and Logan remember
Speaker 3: that any of this ever happened. So the MCU is
Speaker 3: basically a clean slate for a new generation of X Men,
Speaker 3: which I do think will likely be similar to the
Speaker 3: X Men ninety seven lineups that we've seen, because those
Speaker 3: are reflected in those new X Men comics, which we
Speaker 3: talked about on our X Men ninety seven episode. So
Speaker 3: I do think this is gonna pave the way. But also,
Speaker 3: what do they do if it's a billion dollar movie
Speaker 3: and they want to kind of continue both worlds? I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a can they have their cake and
Speaker 1: eat it scenario? What do you think?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 2: Well, I agree, I agree with us that this is
Speaker 2: going to be some version of killing off the various
Speaker 2: variants that are the five X Men universe. Then I
Speaker 2: think there's gonna be some sort of singularity that brings Deadpool,
Speaker 2: Wolverine and others into our universe. And the question is,
Speaker 2: then is there an off ramp for the illustrious mister
Speaker 2: Hugh Jackman, who is playing Wolverine now for twenty years
Speaker 2: for and while I think he is fantastic and obviously iconic,
Speaker 2: is the character we probably need somebody new and how
Speaker 2: do you get him off? And I think that how
Speaker 2: you get him off is how you introduce the other
Speaker 2: X Men. Yeah, speaking of the X Men, let's just
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about a joy in our life, right,
Speaker 2: now X Men ninety seven on Disney Plus. We talked
Speaker 2: about it at length in our preview episodes, and we
Speaker 2: have to keep talking about it because, Uh, it is
Speaker 2: just going so hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't believe.
Speaker 2: It's unbelievable. And to tie it back to our conversation
Speaker 2: about Deadpool, I am kind of wondering how much X
Speaker 2: Men ninety seven. To what degree X Men ninety seven
Speaker 2: is like a stress test for certain storylines. I think
Speaker 2: for the introduction of the X Men to the MCU,
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's re upping people's recognition
Speaker 3: of these characters and reminding them who they are. This
Speaker 3: is their powers, this is the different team members, these
Speaker 3: are the kind of law that has built them, and
Speaker 3: also seeing how people respond to certain stuff. I wouldn't
Speaker 3: be surprised if we got a reimagining of Genosha in
Speaker 3: Them See You because of how hard episode five hit,
Speaker 3: you know, I think that episode six, which was your
Speaker 3: cosmic Shia episode, which is what we've kind of been
Speaker 3: theorizing they would do.
Speaker 1: I would love to see them do that.
Speaker 3: But I also think that they probably should have switched
Speaker 3: Life def Part two, which was your shear episode and
Speaker 3: switched that with episode seven because I feel like episode
Speaker 3: seven felt like a more obvious continuation of episode five,
Speaker 3: and I think it would have kept people more engaged.
Speaker 1: So I think that Shear Stuff might be a little
Speaker 1: further off.
Speaker 3: I think that that didn't hit as hard for those
Speaker 3: of us who maybe didn't already know about it, But
Speaker 3: it has been fun to see people learn that Charles
Speaker 3: Xavier kind of sucks some.
Speaker 2: Bad guy, and I'm like, babe, is Charles is Charles
Speaker 2: a kind of a bad guy? Let me tell you.
Speaker 3: And everyone's like, well, let us tell you. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I think I loved seeing that she are stuff. But
Speaker 3: I do think this is a stress test. I do
Speaker 3: think they're going to see how people deal with it.
Speaker 3: I do think that after this series, Gambit is much
Speaker 3: more likely to show up in these movies, which I
Speaker 3: kind of didn't really think would happen, but they did
Speaker 3: good Gambit propaganda in this. I think we're definitely going
Speaker 3: to get a version of the original five. I think
Speaker 3: we're gonna get your Scott, your.
Speaker 1: Gene, your Wolverine.
Speaker 3: But I think that if they're smart and they follow
Speaker 3: what Bodomeo and the team did, they're definitely going to
Speaker 3: play into the love triangle of it all.
Speaker 1: They need that, you need that, and you know.
Speaker 3: I would be interested to see them expand on Storm.
Speaker 3: I think Storm hasn't been as central as I would
Speaker 3: have made her in this series. But also I think
Speaker 3: if your smart Storm is probably your entry point to
Speaker 3: the X Men in the MCU. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's just continues to deliver. I thought episode seven was
Speaker 3: up there with the best episodes that they've done, and
Speaker 3: it was just a total, you know, joy to see
Speaker 3: these characters. And I mean, we just got a huge
Speaker 3: introduction of a comic book character that a lot of
Speaker 3: people have probably never even heard of in Bastion.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean one of the another weird product of the
Speaker 2: late nineties early two thousand's Bastion is a sentiententirely of
Speaker 2: vol machine Man yeah, who is at Killer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's this thing Operation zero Tolerance. So I
Speaker 3: would be interested to see if we maybe get something
Speaker 3: from that, Scott Lobdell, which is like I was surprised
Speaker 3: to see them draw from this, but like Uncanny X
Speaker 3: Men three f three, that kind of era of mutants
Speaker 3: being a truly targeted population, and then that could set
Speaker 3: up as we've always been asking how.
Speaker 1: Are mutants hated and feared?
Speaker 3: And that's been one of the big questions in a
Speaker 3: world where you have like Avengers, Action figures, how do
Speaker 3: you have a time where mutants and superheroes are feared?
Speaker 3: And I think that having something like Operation Zero Tolerance,
Speaker 3: essentially like a militia group who want to kill mutants,
Speaker 3: that's a good way to establish that. So it'll be
Speaker 3: interesting to see if that comes through in the MCU.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up because I think the
Speaker 2: one thing that has been so effective about X Men
Speaker 2: ninety seven when we say it's going hard and all
Speaker 2: those things, and I think what that means is the
Speaker 2: X Men are perfect anti hero in the Marvel mums,
Speaker 2: which I didn't you know, as the X Men were
Speaker 2: my favorite team, my favorite characters, so I always saw
Speaker 2: them as heroes, flat out heroes. But within the larger MCU,
Speaker 2: they're kind of they're not the bad guys, they're not
Speaker 2: the good guys. They're outlaws. Certainly outlaws, I think is
Speaker 2: the way to put it. That is the central tension
Speaker 2: between the X Men and the Avengers in the Marvel Universe,
Speaker 2: which is the Avengers are great, they're heroes, they're by
Speaker 2: the book, they're the lawful ones, and they have a
Speaker 2: lot of excuses about why they couldn't be there when
Speaker 2: mutants were being wiped out, or they could they were
Speaker 2: they didn't know about this government program that's actually working
Speaker 2: on a weapon to destroy mutants, and the mutants are like, well,
Speaker 2: then we're going to have to do things ourselves. And
Speaker 2: I think that dynamic where you've got this group of
Speaker 2: superpower people who are just like, well, we have to
Speaker 2: protect ourselves and we have to do something about this
Speaker 2: threat that we are under, and we're going to do something.
Speaker 2: Is It's such a great way to drive tension and
Speaker 2: potentially generate anger at these characters in the world, fear
Speaker 2: of them. And I hope that that is a thing
Speaker 2: that they can capture because the X Men are a
Speaker 2: diversity metaphor. They are a metaphor about out groups. They
Speaker 2: are a metaphor about oppression, and that is central to
Speaker 2: who they are. And if they could figure out a
Speaker 2: way to capture that, that will be the thing that
Speaker 2: injects new life into the MCU.
Speaker 3: And you can also, like you said, the diversity angle,
Speaker 3: you can actually use it to like have that meta
Speaker 3: critique and conversation about the conversations that people have been
Speaker 3: having about these movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the way that that the really fantastic.
Speaker 3: Scott Pilgrim show, which we'll talk about in a different episode,
Speaker 3: but that basically was in conversation with everyone who'd been
Speaker 3: talking about the comics and the movies for like a
Speaker 3: decade plus.
Speaker 1: And I think that the X Men could.
Speaker 3: Allow they could be the in characters for us saying
Speaker 3: like whoaa, whoa wa, why would you work with the
Speaker 3: government if they're the ones who create at the sentinels, Like,
Speaker 3: there's no compromise here. It's and especially in a world
Speaker 3: where we are getting a TV show with X Men
Speaker 3: ninety seven that essentially consistently says Magneo was right.
Speaker 1: Again, hone, He's still alive. Wonderful.
Speaker 2: Up next to our conversation with James Tynan, James Tynan
Speaker 2: is the Eyes Are and Glad Award winning mastermind behind
Speaker 2: The Nice House in the Lake, Something's Killing the Children, Batman,
Speaker 2: The Department of Truth, the Crazy Department of Truth, that
Speaker 2: many many more. With the announcement of a sequel to
Speaker 2: The Nice House in the Lake, The Nice House by
Speaker 2: the Sea. We're incredibly excited to have James Makers X
Speaker 2: Ray Vision debut on our comeback episode. James, thank you
Speaker 2: so much for joining us.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really really
Speaker 6: happy to be here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be a delightful We're so happy you
Speaker 3: could join us. So when we have folks on the show,
Speaker 3: we often begin by just asking them kind of like
Speaker 3: it's a big question for people like us, but what's
Speaker 3: your comic book origin story? Like, what was the comic
Speaker 3: that made you fall in love with comics? What was
Speaker 3: the moment when you thought, oh, this is something I
Speaker 3: want to do, or what's just a comic that kind
Speaker 3: of sparked your love.
Speaker 6: So it's honestly kind of of the moment right now
Speaker 6: now that we're in the heyday of X Men ninety seven.
Speaker 6: But the first comic I ever remember picking up in
Speaker 6: a comic book shop was an issue of X Men Adventures,
Speaker 6: the comic book tie in series two, the animated series,
Speaker 6: when I must have been about five or six years old.
Speaker 5: Wow, And.
Speaker 6: I remember picking it up and it was a Mojo issue,
Speaker 6: a very bizarre entry point into the X Men franchise,
Speaker 6: but it made me like I was. I was dragged
Speaker 6: in you know, the both the X Men animated series
Speaker 6: in the Batman animated series were the things that pulled
Speaker 6: me into an interest in superheroes, which then pulled me
Speaker 6: into a comic shop and then made me a fan
Speaker 6: of the medium, and then I've been here ever since.
Speaker 3: What was it like to then, I mean, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: go with skipping forward a little bit here, but like
Speaker 3: you mentioned Batman the animated series, So what was it
Speaker 3: like to then get to write Batman after that being
Speaker 3: one of your entry points?
Speaker 6: Incredibly intimidating, Like just the most wildly intimidating thing. My
Speaker 6: career started a little unusually where I had been the
Speaker 6: writing assistant to Scott Snyder when he before he had
Speaker 6: actually started writing comic books. It was when he had
Speaker 6: been my professor at Sarah Lawrence College, and I was
Speaker 6: helping him do research for a novel that he had
Speaker 6: been working on. But I was a big comic book eek.
Speaker 6: So once he actually started talking to you know, DC
Speaker 6: and Marvel and started getting work through them, he eventually
Speaker 6: like was like, Hey, they just asked me if I
Speaker 6: could do backup stories on this thing, would you be
Speaker 6: willing to co write them with me, and I was like, yes, absolutely, peace.
Speaker 6: But it was like the early on, I was like
Speaker 6: I'm not allowed to write Batman, like I will write
Speaker 6: any supporting character in all of that. But there was
Speaker 6: an annual that we wrote together, This would have been
Speaker 6: in twenty twelve that like I was just like, I
Speaker 6: will write all of the Mister Freeze bits, I will
Speaker 6: write everything else, but you actually have to write the
Speaker 6: dialogue for Batman because I'm not allowed to do that yet.
Speaker 6: And Scott had to very patiently like get me on
Speaker 6: the phone and just be like, James, I brought you
Speaker 6: on because my schedule's insane right now, and I really
Speaker 6: really need you to write the Batman bits as well,
Speaker 6: like that is part of the assignment. And I just
Speaker 6: like I had like a panic attack, and then I
Speaker 6: just had to sort of center myself and sort of
Speaker 6: you know, find the voice of Batman and me, which
Speaker 6: was the voice of Kevin Conroy. So it was the
Speaker 6: you know, I was able to sort of channel the
Speaker 6: voice of Batman that really spoke to me and then
Speaker 6: try to bring it to life on the page. And yeah,
Speaker 6: but very intimidating, very very intimidating to walk into Gotham
Speaker 6: City for the first time.
Speaker 2: I mean, speaking of voice, I mean we have to
Speaker 2: talk about the Nice House on the Lake, which I
Speaker 2: think we've just been gushing about Rosie and I It's
Speaker 2: so good. I mean reading it, you're like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is going to be one of those classic graphic novels
Speaker 2: that even people who don't collect comics or aren't at
Speaker 2: the comic shop on a weekly basis, will have like
Speaker 2: on their bookshelf next to like Sandman and Watchmen, et cetera.
Speaker 2: It's so great and one of the you talking about voices,
Speaker 2: one of the things that stands out for me writing
Speaker 2: is your ability to capture the voices of your characters
Speaker 2: and make them feel so visort of and real. And
Speaker 2: Nice House in the Lake is an incredible example of that.
Speaker 2: How do you generate that? How do you how do
Speaker 2: you find the voices of all of those characters, specifically
Speaker 2: in Nice House and the Lake, in order to make
Speaker 2: that story feel so emotionally powerful.
Speaker 6: I mean, so Nice House is a very personal comic
Speaker 6: to me. It's something that you know, I think when
Speaker 6: people look at a picture of me or see me,
Speaker 6: they can kind of see that there's a little bit
Speaker 6: of Walter in me just keep generally speaking, and the
Speaker 6: character is very much based on me in my voice
Speaker 6: and how I interact with the world, and a lot
Speaker 6: of the characters that are around Walter in the house,
Speaker 6: there are sort of hybrids of a few of my
Speaker 6: friends that have sort of like you know, blended together,
Speaker 6: as you know, and then changed to fit into a
Speaker 6: fictional universe. But it is something where it's like I
Speaker 6: already always have a kind of true north of like
Speaker 6: what I'm trying to accomplish with these characters and like,
Speaker 6: and then on top of that, I have a real
Speaker 6: sense of the like the emotional relationships between all of
Speaker 6: the characters and their dynamics. Like I wanted to in
Speaker 6: building out that house, I wanted to make sure we
Speaker 6: had a real blend of personalities because otherwise you have
Speaker 6: you do like, you can't do a an eleven person
Speaker 6: cast when every every character sounds exactly the same. And
Speaker 6: then on top of that, that's just not all that interesting.
Speaker 6: As a writer, you want to have characters who are
Speaker 6: going to react very differently in different situations and sort
Speaker 6: of being able to lean into those specific voices and
Speaker 6: try to capture something real, Like that's the you know,
Speaker 6: that's the joy of being a writer. It's like, this
Speaker 6: is the book that I try to make the real
Speaker 6: like honestly the realist of any of the books that
Speaker 6: I do. Uh, it's you know, it's the book Like
Speaker 6: I've said this before, but it's like it's the book
Speaker 6: that I write to scare my therapist. Like yeah, like
Speaker 6: there's a joy in trying to scare your therapist and
Speaker 6: a book that you're doing.
Speaker 3: Oh so, how do you come to DC Comics right
Speaker 3: and say, Hey, so I want to do a book
Speaker 3: that's not superheroes, that is going to not be tied
Speaker 3: to your universe, and I want it to scare my therapist.
Speaker 3: And also it is an apocalypse book and it's an
Speaker 3: alien book. But most of it just takes place in
Speaker 3: a house, and there's a lot of talking like what
Speaker 3: is the pitch like? Because it seems like it's a
Speaker 3: hard sell, even though once you and Alvaro are like
Speaker 3: working on it, it's so readable, it's so engaging.
Speaker 1: How did this How did it come about? That ended
Speaker 1: up at DC?
Speaker 6: So, I mean, you know, it always started with that
Speaker 6: kind of the core conceit it's just like that, you
Speaker 6: have this dynamic friend who invites ten of ten of
Speaker 6: his closest friends to a house on a lake for
Speaker 6: a nice, fun weekend over summer, and then once they
Speaker 6: get there, they realize that it's the end of the
Speaker 6: world outside, that they're never leaving that house, and that
Speaker 6: their friend is actually a part of some non human
Speaker 6: form of being that has trapped them there and is
Speaker 6: involved with the entire destruction of humanity in the apocalypse
Speaker 6: outside of it. Like that was in the original one
Speaker 6: page pitch, and it was a description of the first issue,
Speaker 6: even though it would be about two or three years
Speaker 6: until I wrote it. And honestly, when I pitched it
Speaker 6: the first time, it was at a moment where I
Speaker 6: wasn't sure what the future of Creator Owned at DC
Speaker 6: was going to look. Like it was sort of the
Speaker 6: start of DC Black Label, and they had kind of
Speaker 6: wound down the Vertigo imprint over there, and you know,
Speaker 6: but like I was exclusive at DC, so like contractually
Speaker 6: I needed to like pass things along. But the other
Speaker 6: thing before I was i'd be able to take them
Speaker 6: out of house. But the you know, the thing that
Speaker 6: had changed is that the editor who had originally paired
Speaker 6: Olvaro and myself together on Batman Eternal and then Detective Comics,
Speaker 6: and then that all leading into our work on Justice
Speaker 6: League Dark. You know, was it was suddenly the person
Speaker 6: you know, making the decisions over at at DC Black Label,
Speaker 6: and he really really loved the book. And then around
Speaker 6: that time, it was also when I launched my my
Speaker 6: Boom series Something Is Killing the Children, which really sort
Speaker 6: of set off a new chapter in my career. And
Speaker 6: you know, I remember, like I remember sitting with uh,
Speaker 6: you know, the publisher of d C at the time,
Speaker 6: and he was just like, you know, I want you
Speaker 6: to bring that kind of horror energy that you're bringing
Speaker 6: over there to d C. And I'm like, you have
Speaker 6: a bitch. And then we got it up and running
Speaker 6: and you know, and thankfully, and d C has been
Speaker 6: an incredibly good steward for this book, and you know,
Speaker 6: it's an incredible honor, like the you know that it's
Speaker 6: I'm I'm incredibly incredibly happy with it. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Just what, right, Yeah, the second cycle to The Nice
Speaker 2: House in the Lake is coming out this summer. What
Speaker 2: if anything can you tell us?
Speaker 6: I mean, at core, like the Nice House saga in
Speaker 6: general is defined by its mysteries and its twists and
Speaker 6: its turns. So you know what we're saying, like right
Speaker 6: out the gate, like you know, yes, we're we're introducing
Speaker 6: a new house. Yes, there's a whole bunch of new characters.
Speaker 6: And how does this connect to everything that you've known
Speaker 6: and loved from the first cycle. You're going to have
Speaker 6: to read the book like it is the you know
Speaker 6: that is uh, that's sort of what I'm laying out there,
Speaker 6: but it is just like it Like one thing that
Speaker 6: was very something that I really wanted to tap into
Speaker 6: is the first cycle deals with basically a friend group
Speaker 6: coming together in a house and the dynamics and the
Speaker 6: tensions that come from people who have known each other
Speaker 6: decades in some case, and then some of them have
Speaker 6: only known each other for like they may have been
Speaker 6: to five parties together ever. But it's just like, and
Speaker 6: how did those dynamics when they all center around one
Speaker 6: person who is then no longer really there to be
Speaker 6: the center of the that experience? The you know, that
Speaker 6: was sort of what drove me in that first volume.
Speaker 6: For this volume, I wanted to come at it from
Speaker 6: the exact opposite angle where we are now seeing kind
Speaker 6: of the ideal version of what Walter was supposed to
Speaker 6: do with his house. He was supposed to go out
Speaker 6: there and find ten of the most exceptional people in
Speaker 6: each of their fields and then put them all in
Speaker 6: a house together. But the issue is is that once
Speaker 6: you put ten people who do not know each other,
Speaker 6: that are all like, very prominent in their individual fields
Speaker 6: and all that, and you throw them in a house together,
Speaker 6: there is no guarantee that those people are going to
Speaker 6: like each other. In fact, it's most likely that they're
Speaker 6: not going to And so we're going to kind of
Speaker 6: be able to see the ways in which Walter may
Speaker 6: have been right in how he built his house the
Speaker 6: first time. And that is the hint at some of
Speaker 6: the stuff that's coming in the series.
Speaker 3: I love that, and obviously like a big part of
Speaker 3: the first cycle is this kind of unbelievable the way
Speaker 3: Alvarro would bring the house to life, right the chitet
Speaker 3: troll beauty of the house and the location, and also
Speaker 3: these kind of incredible double page spreads that have a
Speaker 3: hyper amount of panels but not a lot of action.
Speaker 1: So could you sort of talk tease.
Speaker 3: A little bit of how Alvro's work is going to
Speaker 3: kind of expand or play into that in the new cycle.
Speaker 6: Honestly, the development process of both series was so fun
Speaker 6: because there's a whole part of it where we're just
Speaker 6: sending each other Zillow listings like these beautiful elaborate.
Speaker 1: Homes millennial friendship. I lived it.
Speaker 6: It was like, honestly, the you know it was it
Speaker 6: set some goals you know, long off in the future,
Speaker 6: but the you know, but this time around. Initially, what
Speaker 6: I was thinking when I originally pitched out a nice
Speaker 6: house by the sea, I was sort of picture picturing
Speaker 6: a kind of Caribbean esthetic that sort of like beach
Speaker 6: house vibe. And Aldro was the one who sort of
Speaker 6: came in, Like Alvro was based in Spain, and he
Speaker 6: was just like, I have the idea of this kind
Speaker 6: of like Mediterranean via like and like trying to really
Speaker 6: capture that kind of aesthetic, which is so like fundamentally
Speaker 6: different than how I initially was approaching it. But then
Speaker 6: once he started sending in these reference images of what
Speaker 6: he wanted to capture in this space, like it was
Speaker 6: just like, yes, please, like I want to, I want
Speaker 6: to go visit there.
Speaker 1: I would love to.
Speaker 6: I would definitely love to stay in that house. And
Speaker 6: I mean like that's the that's always the push in
Speaker 6: the pull. It's like, this is need you know, we
Speaker 6: are establishing these uh, these little paradises for these characters
Speaker 6: to be trapped inside of and uh, you know, and
Speaker 6: it needs to feel like paradise. And so you know,
Speaker 6: thankfully Alvro loves that kind of design work and building
Speaker 6: these spaces. And then on top of that, like you know,
Speaker 6: Olvera and I have worked together so long and we've
Speaker 6: always liked dense storytelling, and that is key in nice House.
Speaker 6: And it's something that like I've always wanted when you
Speaker 6: pick up one of my comic books for it to
Speaker 6: be a kind of dense experience. I don't want it
Speaker 6: to be a sort of especially a single comic book
Speaker 6: issue can be an awful value at the store where
Speaker 6: it's just like here's twenty five pages and if you
Speaker 6: can read the whole thing in two minutes, like you
Speaker 6: know what, you know, what's the point. I want you
Speaker 6: to sit with it, especially because we're doing horror. I
Speaker 6: want to you know, really pace you through it. And
Speaker 6: so the density of panels, the density of dialogue, and
Speaker 6: a density of information on the page, slows down the
Speaker 6: reading process and allows us to control more of the
Speaker 6: tension and how we build the tension. It's one of
Speaker 6: my favorite tricks, and I like, you know, I use
Speaker 6: it in my other books too, but it is the
Speaker 6: you know like it. I think it's it's really fundamental
Speaker 6: to how the series works. Is especially because Ulvaro is
Speaker 6: such a talented artist. He is able to get so
Speaker 6: much information across even when you're on a double page
Speaker 6: spread that has you know, somewhere between twelve to sixteen panels.
Speaker 2: Speaking of the tensions, Nice House is incredibly tense, wonderfully thrilling,
Speaker 2: just really spooky with the twist and turns. But there's
Speaker 2: this really unique speaking of your tricks, there's a really
Speaker 2: unique sense of playfulness too that is sprinkled throughout. That
Speaker 2: made me think, please don't hate me. This is crazy
Speaker 2: to quote Walder, but it made me think of like
Speaker 2: the reality show Big Brother or the video game The Sims.
Speaker 2: You know, this kind of like godlike view of characters
Speaker 2: trapped in a house so you can do things too.
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, does that resonate it off? Is there
Speaker 2: anything to that?
Speaker 6: I think I think that that's a great read. Like
Speaker 6: it is something that we always have a kind of
Speaker 6: fascination with people who are sort of contained in space,
Speaker 6: and there is some like you know, with Walter, like
Speaker 6: I initially you know in a way that this is
Speaker 6: sort of an alien zoo story without it really being
Speaker 6: like it is just you know, like we've we have
Speaker 6: a little sample set of humanity that's sort of living
Speaker 6: out its days and they're but they are being watched.
Speaker 6: They are being uh, they aren't just alone out there
Speaker 6: and they don't fully understand what's like recording them or
Speaker 6: watching them, but they know that they're being watched and recorded.
Speaker 6: So there is absolutely that element, you know, And I
Speaker 6: think in that like, you know, I've I've done my
Speaker 6: time with all of the reality shows, but I think
Speaker 6: like the Truman Show would have been like the foundational
Speaker 6: piece of media for me that sort of would tit
Speaker 6: me in that direction. And then like and then yeah,
Speaker 6: the Sims the idea of it's just like build this
Speaker 6: kind of perfect place and then just see what happens
Speaker 6: when your little toys have to like start living in it.
Speaker 6: And it's just like that kind of disconnect that Walter
Speaker 6: has between these people that you know, he genuinely loves
Speaker 6: he genuinely really really cares about but they're is a
Speaker 6: deep coldness and distance between Walter and and all of
Speaker 6: these people he's been around his entire life, and that
Speaker 6: kind of you know, how he navigates both his warm
Speaker 6: feelings and his very cold feelings. It's like, is you know,
Speaker 6: absolutely core to the character.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very simuous, like then you remove the doors
Speaker 3: and they can't leave. Actually, it's like a really great read. So,
Speaker 3: speaking of horror and that kind of new or newer
Speaker 3: part of your career, you've got Spectrograph coming out with
Speaker 3: Christian Wards soon from Distillery actually this week, right, So
Speaker 3: what can you kind of tell us about that and
Speaker 3: kind of this this kind of ghost story that you
Speaker 3: to have created together.
Speaker 6: Oh, I'm really excited about this one. I mean, for one,
Speaker 6: Christian Ward is just one of the best artists working
Speaker 6: in the comics medium, and you know, we got to
Speaker 6: do a few short stories together over at DC. We
Speaker 6: did a swamp thing story, we did a poison ivy story,
Speaker 6: like you know, we got you know, we got to
Speaker 6: play with some of the big toys. But during that
Speaker 6: entire time we were talking about doing this comic and
Speaker 6: you know, the sort of central pitch there, you know,
Speaker 6: which is the first few pages of the first issue,
Speaker 6: so I don't mind spoiling it, but it's basically, you know,
Speaker 6: it starts with a flashback to the nineteen sixties and
Speaker 6: you see this man who's you know, walking into this
Speaker 6: occult club in New York City. He is obviously hated
Speaker 6: by the other figures in that club, and he basically
Speaker 6: walks up in front of the club and it's just like,
Speaker 6: I've spent the first half of my life and half
Speaker 6: in the first half of my fortune trying to prove
Speaker 6: that ghosts exist, and I am ready here to say
Speaker 6: that they do not exist, but they should. And I'm
Speaker 6: going to spend the next half of my life and
Speaker 6: the next half of my money making ghosts exist. And
Speaker 6: that is that is the setup of Spectograph. And then
Speaker 6: you know, the then we jump into the present day
Speaker 6: and we meet the actual a central characters of the story.
Speaker 6: And you know, our lead Jane Uh, you know, has
Speaker 6: has a very very human drive to get out of
Speaker 6: that house when she's trapped inside of it. But we
Speaker 6: wanted to do an unconventional haunted house story, and part
Speaker 6: of my email pitching this to Christian right at the beginning,
Speaker 6: it wasn't you know, first it was all of that
Speaker 6: that I just said, But then the other thing that
Speaker 6: I just said is like, Christian, I just want to
Speaker 6: see you draw ghosts. And it turns out turns out
Speaker 6: he's great at it, Like he's absolutely great, and you
Speaker 6: know that that's part of the fun of it too.
Speaker 6: It's just like us coming up with some very unconventional
Speaker 6: types of ghosts and then unleashing them on our core
Speaker 6: cast and you know, it's a great, big mystery, and
Speaker 6: you know, and then on top of that, it's going
Speaker 6: to you know, a lot of my series are very
Speaker 6: sprawling over many years, but Spectrograph is a tight story.
Speaker 6: It's you know, it's gonna be told in four oversight
Speaker 6: forty six page issues in that kind of album format,
Speaker 6: so it's like larger pages and the print quality is amazing,
Speaker 6: Like it's a gorgeous, gorgeous book. So it's just like
Speaker 6: I am, I'm very very excited for people to pick
Speaker 6: this up. It's uh, it's gonna be it's gonna be
Speaker 6: something special.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I can't wait. You recently launched Tiny Onion
Speaker 2: Studios tell us about that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you know, at at its core, like the
Speaker 6: like we we announced ourselves just a couple of months ago,
Speaker 6: and you know, right now we're doing all of the
Speaker 6: secret stuff that you know, everyone's not really gonna find
Speaker 6: out what we're doing like for another year or two.
Speaker 6: But there are a lot of very exciting things that
Speaker 6: like the boulders have been pushed down the hill and
Speaker 6: now they're rolling and that is very very exciting. But
Speaker 6: you know, really in my entire career, I've I've liked
Speaker 6: being I like, I've liked operating independently, and I've liked
Speaker 6: being able to sort of drive my you know, let
Speaker 6: my the create a vision of the books, sort of
Speaker 6: drive how we bring them to the market and who
Speaker 6: we bring them through. And the nice thing is is
Speaker 6: like I have a footprint now at I think like
Speaker 6: four of the five largest comic publishers right now, and
Speaker 6: it's just like and so now we're able to sort
Speaker 6: of be like, Okay, is this book an image book?
Speaker 6: Is this book a dark horse book? Is this book?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 6: Uh like and then like you know, it's the fifth
Speaker 6: year anniversary if something is killing the children, and the
Speaker 6: tenth year anniversary of all my work with Boom Studios,
Speaker 6: and you know, the biggest question that I got from
Speaker 6: you know, retailers and from my publishers was just like
Speaker 6: are you a publisher? Now? What are are you? And
Speaker 6: it's just like, no, no, we're It's like, imagine an
Speaker 6: independent film studio and we are. We go and we
Speaker 6: work with like all of our great friends and all
Speaker 6: of these different distributions, like all the different distributors, but
Speaker 6: we're like we sort of we build things independently on
Speaker 6: our own and then we bring them into the publishing system.
Speaker 6: And you know, it's a kind of new, new way
Speaker 6: to approach it, but it's also you know, it's both
Speaker 6: and it's also very similar to how the initial studios
Speaker 6: that comprised image, So it is just the like basically,
Speaker 6: this allows me to kind of set the groundwork for
Speaker 6: what I want to build over the next five ten years.
Speaker 6: And then on top of that, it allows us to
Speaker 6: sort of pull together our resources as we approach bringing
Speaker 6: these works into into multimedia, into film and television and animation,
Speaker 6: and we have a lot of ambitions there. So that's
Speaker 6: and it's you know, and it's been exciting because you know,
Speaker 6: I've been able to watch the process as something is
Speaker 6: Killing the Children has been in development over at Netflix
Speaker 6: for the last few years, and it's like it's in
Speaker 6: a very good place. I can't say anything more than that,
Speaker 6: but it's a things are moving very well and then
Speaker 6: you know, very exciting things are happening behind the scenes
Speaker 6: with Department of Truth right now that I really wish
Speaker 6: I could hint that, but I can't say more than that.
Speaker 6: But it is just like we have, you know, It's
Speaker 6: it's been really really nice to sort of see how
Speaker 6: these you know, how the system works and the way
Speaker 6: in which I want my work to live on in
Speaker 6: other media, while still making sure that the heart of
Speaker 6: what I do and the core reason that I'm making
Speaker 6: all of these comics is to make really really good comics.
Speaker 6: Like that is the that is my number one concern,
Speaker 6: you know, and especially when I talk to retailers. I
Speaker 6: want to make really good comics that do well for
Speaker 6: retailers because I want I need them to sell well
Speaker 6: enough so that they want to buy more from me. Yeah,
Speaker 6: it's the curse of being a high output writer is
Speaker 6: that it's just like I need them to buy a
Speaker 6: lot of my comics. So it's just like they have
Speaker 6: to keep I have to keep making sure that they're
Speaker 6: good and that they sell, and I'm gonna do my
Speaker 6: damndest to make that happen.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: And also speaking of retailers, finally, this is so this
Speaker 3: is going to be our Free Comic Book Day episode
Speaker 3: because it's gonna come out just before Free Comic Book Day.
Speaker 3: So what's your favorite free comic book Bay memory?
Speaker 6: Let me try to remember, like I think, uh, you know,
Speaker 6: there was a a Free Comic Book Day early in
Speaker 6: my career that I went to a store signing in
Speaker 6: Indiana and that with Scott Snyder. And then afterwards, like me, Scott,
Speaker 6: Mark Wade, and Chris Somney, like a fan had brought
Speaker 6: a like a like sharpened batterrang and we were all
Speaker 6: throwing the batterrang into like.
Speaker 1: A piece of wood and the incredible Yeah.
Speaker 6: No, that was that was pretty good. I was not
Speaker 6: good at throwing the batter rang. Scott on his first
Speaker 6: throw got like a perfect throw and then it's like
Speaker 6: I'm not throwing it again. But I mean I'm like,
Speaker 6: you know, like that was an accident and that is
Speaker 6: not gonna happen again. But yeah, no, that that's probably
Speaker 6: that's probably the standout memory.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: Well, James, thank you so much for joining us. Has
Speaker 2: been a delightful conversation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 6: You so much for having me.
Speaker 2: Every episode we liked in the show with a fast
Speaker 2: moving segment. This time we're doing Who's Who, and we're
Speaker 2: gonna be talking about the weirdest, our favorite weirdest. They're
Speaker 2: all weird, honestly, from really, who are our favorite weird
Speaker 2: characters from Old Man Logan? Who are your favorite Who's
Speaker 2: your favorite weirdo from Old Man Logan?
Speaker 3: To me, there's only one answer, and that is the
Speaker 3: Venomized t Rex.
Speaker 1: I love it aka venom Bonded t Rex.
Speaker 3: But still, let's be real, that is such a cool
Speaker 3: character design. That's such a cool idea, and I love
Speaker 3: that it's actually been like expanded out now and they
Speaker 3: even did like a Ethan Saxon, Marco Chicato and Old
Speaker 3: Man Hawke I six did like an origin story for
Speaker 3: the for the venom bonded t Rex. So I think
Speaker 3: for me that's always stood out as like a really
Speaker 3: cool idea and I would love to see that in
Speaker 3: depthol Wolverine what about you?
Speaker 6: For me?
Speaker 2: You know, old Man logan is really all about its villain.
Speaker 2: It's a story center in world in which the villains
Speaker 2: are triumphant, and so, you know, not a weirdo per se,
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna go with Red Skull. We see Red
Speaker 2: Skull triumphant in this book, and at in my opinion,
Speaker 2: his most evil ever, not counting having a piece of
Speaker 2: Charles's brain implanted in his brain. Like this is for me,
Speaker 2: the most evil Red Skull we've ever seen. And we
Speaker 2: get a glimpse of the Red Skull in his like
Speaker 2: museum of Pilford hero artifacts, and it is unnerving. Let's
Speaker 2: just say that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what a weirdo. What a weirdo? What a weirdo? Jason?
Speaker 1: What are you looking forward to this week?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I'll tell you. What I'm looking forward to
Speaker 2: is going to the movies and seeing The Stuntman. The
Speaker 2: Stuntman movie is starring Ryan Garsling, an ode to old
Speaker 2: school practical effects and guys falling off buildings on fire
Speaker 2: into large inflatable crash bags. I am really excited to
Speaker 2: see this movie. What about you?
Speaker 1: I love that movie. I'm glad you shout out the
Speaker 1: fall Guy. Absolutely delightful movie. I hope everyone goes to
Speaker 1: see it. It's a love led to Stuntman. And I
Speaker 1: also hope that it means that we finally get a
Speaker 1: stunt oscar. It's way over due.
Speaker 3: I have a couple of core things. Obviously, free comic
Speaker 3: book They can't wait for it. So what is Free
Speaker 3: Comic Book Day? It really is a day when you
Speaker 3: can go to your comic shop and you can get
Speaker 3: free comics. Now, not every comic is free, but you
Speaker 3: can go in and they will have a ton of
Speaker 3: different comics. Every publisher puts out special comics on Free
Speaker 3: Comic Book Day.
Speaker 1: This year it's on.
Speaker 3: May fourth, so it coincides with Star Wars Day, which
Speaker 3: I think is very exciting. And traditionally it's basically held
Speaker 3: the first Saturday in May every year, which has kind
Speaker 3: of become like the Blockbuster release week, and.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting.
Speaker 3: This is the first year in a while we haven't
Speaker 3: had a superhero movie that the Free Comic Bookday. This
Speaker 3: movie this year is basically The Fall Guy, but it
Speaker 3: began in two thousand and two, and you can go
Speaker 3: to your local comic book shop and you can grab
Speaker 3: a bunch of different free comics. Different comic book shops
Speaker 3: do it different ways. Some places do pre bagged, some
Speaker 3: you can go and grab a comic and it's done.
Speaker 3: It pretty much every comic shop across North America and
Speaker 3: definitely in England where I used to live. So it's
Speaker 3: really fun and it's a great way to try out
Speaker 3: new art new artists. And I want to shout out
Speaker 3: the comic Bite Ngozia Kazu Barda. That's one of my
Speaker 3: most anticipated comics of the year. You can get it
Speaker 3: from your local comic book shop this weekend at Free
Speaker 3: Comic Book Day.
Speaker 1: Also, if you're in New York, Den.
Speaker 3: Of Geek is doing a super cool event to celebrate
Speaker 3: the anniversary of the X Files and it looks really
Speaker 3: rad and I got to be a part of choosing
Speaker 3: and voting on their Monster of the Week and that's
Speaker 3: on Friday. So if you're listening to this when it
Speaker 3: actually comes out, if you're in New York, check that
Speaker 3: we can put a link in the show notes.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Extra Vision.
Speaker 1: See you next time, See you next time, guys. Bye.
Speaker 2: X Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kensumsion and Rosie
Speaker 2: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
Speaker 2: producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is.
Speaker 2: A Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor.
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman
Speaker 3: and Heidi our discord moderator.